March 4, 2025 • 36 mins
In this compelling episode, we delve into a tense meeting that captured public attention and stirred debate: the interaction between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and former President Trump in the Oval Office. Their discussion navigates complex issues surrounding military support, respect, and the high stakes of diplomacy in wartime. As leaders grapple with their countries' fates in the face of aggression, we explore the necessity of showing gratitude and mutual respect, key aspects often overshadowed in political rhetoric.
Listeners will be taken through a nuanced examination of the conversation, featuring contrasting perspectives from international leaders who are rallying behind Ukraine during its trying times. A historical lens is applied to highlight the weight of diplomatic tradition in confronting contemporary challenges, making connections that resonate with audiences today. This episode invites you to reflect on how politics shapes lives and emphasizes the profound impact of respect in forging alliances.
Whether you're interested in international relations or just curious about the dynamics of leadership in crisis, this episode packs a powerful punch. Join us for an insightful discussion that not only informs but inspires you to think critically about diplomacy and the power of gratitude in shaping the future. Subscribe, share, and let us know your thoughts!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
He killed a lot of people and he didn't exchange
prisons.
We signed the exchange ofprisons, but he didn't do it.
What kind of diplomacy JT youasked me about?
What does it mean?
I'm talking about the kind ofdiplomacy that's going to end
the destruction of your country.
Mr President, with respect, Ithink it's disrespectful for you
(00:23):
to come to the Oval Office andtry to litigate this in front of
the American media Right now.
You guys are going aroundenforcing conscripts to the
front lines because you havemanpower problems.
You should be thanking thepresident for trying to bring it
into this conference.
Have you ever been to Ukraine?
Did you say what problems wehave?
I have been to— thecommonwealth.
I've actually watched and seenthe stories, stories, and I know
(00:47):
what happens.
Is you bring people?
You bring them on a propagandatour.
Mr President, do you disagreethat you've had problems
bringing people in your military?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And do you think that it's?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
respectful to come to the Oval Office of the.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
United States of America and attack the
administration that is trying toprevent the destruction of your
country.
I love the questions.
Let's start from the bigpicture.
First of all, during the war,everybody has problems, even you
, but you have a nice ocean anddon't feel now, but you will
feel it in the future.
God bless you.
God bless you, god bless you.
(01:19):
Don't tell us what we're goingto feel.
We're trying to solve a problem.
Don't tell us what we're goingto feel, because you're in no
position to dictate that.
You're in no position todictate what we're going to feel
.
We're going to feel very good.
We're going to feel very goodand very strong.
(01:40):
You're, right now, not in a verygood position.
You've allowed yourself to bein a very bad position, and he
happens to be right about it.
You're, right now, not in avery good position.
You've allowed yourself to bein a very bad position and he
happens to be right about it.
You're not in a good position.
You don't have the cards.
Right now, with us, you starthaving cards.
Right now, you're playing cards.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You're playing cards.
You're gambling with the livesof millions of people.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
You're gambling with World War III.
You're gambling with World WarIII.
You're gambling with World WarIII, and what you're doing is
very disrespectful to thecountry, this country.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
That's back to you.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Far more than a lot of people said.
We should have.
Have you said thank you once.
This entire meeting, no, thisentire meeting.
You said thank you.
You went to Pennsylvania andcampaigned for the opposition in
October, offered some words ofappreciation for the United
States of America and thepresident is trying to save your
country.
Please, you think that if youwill speak very loudly about the
(02:37):
war, you will win?
He's not speaking loudly.
He's not speaking loudly.
Your country is in big trouble.
Wait a minute.
No, no, you've done a lot oftalking.
Your country is in big trouble.
You've done a lot of talking.
Your country is in big trouble.
I know You're not winning this.
You have a damn good chance ofcoming out okay because of us,
mr President, we have seen inour country staying strong from
the very beginning.
We don't do more, we're beatingthe load and we are thankful.
(02:59):
I said thanks to you.
You haven't been alone.
You haven't been alone.
We gave you through this stupidpresident $350 billion.
We gave you military equipmentand your men are brave, but they
have used our militaryequipment.
If you didn't have our militaryequipment, if you didn't have
our military equipment, this warwould have been over in two
weeks, In three days.
I heard it from Putin In threedays.
(03:20):
This is how many of us In twoweeks, in three days.
I heard it from Putin In threedays.
This is how many of us In twoweeks.
Of course, yes, it's going tobe a very hard thing to do.
Business like this.
Just say thank you, I said,except that there are
disagreements, and let's golitigate those disagreements
rather than trying to fight itout in the American media.
(03:42):
When you're wrong, we know thatyou're wrong.
You see, I think it's good forthe American people to see
what's going on.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I think it's very important.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's why I kept this going so long.
You have to be thankful youdon't have the cards.
You're buried there.
You have people that died.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
You're running low on soldiers.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Listen, you're running low on soldiers, it
would be a damn good thing.
And then you tell us I don'twant a ceasefire.
I don't want a ceasefire, Iwant to go and I want this.
Look, if you could get aceasefire right now, I tell you
you take it, so the bullets stopflying and your men stop
getting killed.
Of course we want to stop thewar, but you're saying you don't
(04:21):
want a see, I want to seebecause you get a ceasefire
faster than I.
Agree.
A lot of people have alwaysjust smile when they see that
wasn't with me, that wasn't withme that was with a guy named
Biden who was not a smart person.
That was your.
That was with Obama.
Excuse me, that was with Obama,who gave you sheets and I gave
you javelins.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I gave you the javelins, to take out all those
tax.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Obama gave you sheets and I gave you javelins.
I gave you the javelins to takeout all those tax.
Obama gave you sheets.
In fact, the statement is Obamagave sheets and Trump gave
javelins.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
This exchange was viewed very differently by very
different people.
I got some friends who thoughtit was necessary because and
they thought that the presidentlooked strong.
I thought some people whothought the president looked
(05:15):
unhinged and weak.
I could say that this wastowards the end of the meeting.
The meeting had somewhat goneon for about 45 minutes before
this came up.
Now this somewhat went off therails because um zielinski made
(05:41):
the move, pointing out thatPutin had broken a ceasefire in
2015.
And when that happened, vancestarted talking about diplomacy,
but Zelensky was somewhattrying to point out that the
diplomacy doesn't matter becausePutin is not a trustworthy
(06:03):
partner.
Doesn't matter because Putin isnot a trustworthy partner.
Now Zelensky spoke a verysimple truth which was deemed,
for some reason, totallyunacceptable because he was
trying to litigate the issue infront of the press.
I, when I looked at it, I wassomewhat embarrassed.
(06:24):
I, when I looked at it, I wassomewhat embarrassed because it
didn't seem like it was seriousconversation.
I'm thinking that somebody'scountry is at war and the media
(06:45):
is asking silly questions likewhy don't you wear a suit?
And that media personality wassomebody who was supposed to get
access to bring more of anindependent media thing in there
, but it's Marjorie Taylor,marjorie Taylor Greene's
boyfriend.
And then, of course, you goback to the historical
comparisons and you say, well,you know, when Winston Churchill
(07:06):
went to the white house, um,during the war, he, he never
wore a suit.
You know, you imagine, wouldthat be an outrage if, if that
was to happen today.
And then you see how somewhatfake this was.
But this did make europe haveto somewhat stand up.
(07:28):
The uh polish prime ministercame out and said uh, dear
zielinski, dear ukrainianfriends, you are not alone.
The president, uh, lithuania,said ukraine, you'll never walk
alone.
The president of denmark cameout and said dear zielinski, den
Denmark proudly stands withUkraine and the Ukrainian people
(07:48):
.
The president of France cameout there's an aggressor, it's
Russia.
There are people beingaggressed Ukraine.
We are all right to helpUkraine in sectioning Russia
three years ago and continue todo so.
We that the Americans, theEuropeans, the Canadians, the
(08:09):
Japanese and many others,because they are fighting for
their dignity, theirindependence, for their children
and for the security of Europe.
The president of Moldova saidthe truth is simple.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Russia is the aggressor.
Ukraine defends its freedom andours.
We stand with ukraine.
The swedish prime minister saidsweden stands in ukraine.
(08:31):
You are not only fighting foryour freedom, but also for all
of europe.
Sliver ukraine.
The incoming german chancellorsaid dear zelinski, we we stand
with Ukraine in good and intesting times.
We must never confuse theaggressor and the victim in this
terrible war.
The Croatian prime ministerstepped up and said Croatia
(08:55):
knows from its own experiencethat only a just peace can last.
The Croatian government standsfirm in its belief that Ukraine
needs such peace, a peace thatmeans sovereignty, territorial
integrity and a secure Europe.
Finland's prime minister stoodup and said Finland and the
Finnish people stand firmly withUkraine.
We will continue our unwaveringsupport and work towards a just
(09:17):
and lasting peace.
Estonian prime minister said westand with Ukraine.
We united with Zelensky andUkrainian in our fight for
freedom, always because it isright, not easy.
Ireland's deputy prime ministersaid Ukraine is not to blame for
this war brought about byRussia's illegal invasion.
We stand with Ukraine.
(09:37):
The prime minister, well, thepresident of the Leviticus said
Ukraine is a victim of Russianaggression.
It's a fight to war.
With the help from many friendsand partners, we need to spare
no effort for just a lastingpeace.
Leviticus stands with Ukraine.
The Prime Minister of theNetherlands said the Netherlands
(09:59):
support Ukraine as firmly asever.
No more than ever.
We must Ukraine as firmly asever.
No more than ever we must.
We want a lasting peace and theend of the war of aggression
started by Russia for Ukraineand its people and for Europe.
The prime minister ofLuxembourg said Luxembourg
stands with Ukraine.
You're fighting for yourfreedom and a rules-based
international order.
(10:20):
Now I will say this and I'll saythis is a very frustrating
situation.
It's very frustrating becauseUkraine is only in this
(10:44):
situation because of a treatysigned in 1994 that guaranteed
the security exchange foramerica for releasing the
nuclear weapons program, youknow, relinquishing the nuclear
weapons program.
It was extensional, or isextensional, I should say, to
note that Russia was also asigner of the treaty.
(11:07):
It was Russia's actions thatviolated the treaty, not the
United States, not Ukraine.
But at the same time, I couldsay that the United States
posture towards Russia and Chinafor a very long time has been
(11:34):
obviously antagonistic and Ithink that there's a reason why,
uh, trump somewhat behaves theway he behaves towards the
European order, I should say,and I think that is because he's
(11:55):
very skeptical of it and Ithink he, you know, is very
skeptical of the European Union.
I think he's skeptical of NATO.
I think you can somewhat see inthe way he reacts to our
closest neighboring ally, canada, that the president
fundamentally questions a lot ofthese partnerships, and that
(12:19):
includes our partnership withUkraine, and wondering why we
don't support Russia in thistype of encounter.
So, in that same spirit ofpeople weighing in around the
world, the former president ofPoland, lech Wałsa, wrote the
(12:42):
following letter to the currentpresident of the United States,
donald Trump.
Your Excellency, mr President,we watched the report of your
conversation with President ofUkraine Vladimir Zelensky with
fear and distaste.
We find it insulting that youexpect Ukraine to show respect
(13:05):
and gratitude for the materialassistance provided in the
United States fight againstRussia.
Gratitude is owed to the heroicUkrainian soldiers who have
shed their blood in defense ofthe values of a free world.
They have been dying on thefront lines for more than 11
years in the name of thesevalues and the independence of
(13:26):
their homeland, which wasattacked by Putin's Russia.
Independence of their homeland,which was attacked by Putin's
Russia.
We do not understand how theleader of a country that
symbolizes the free world cannotrecognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened bythe atmosphere in the Oval
Office.
During this conversation, whichreminded us of the
interrogations we endured at thehands of security services and
(13:48):
the debates in the communistcourts, prosecutors and judges
acting on behalf of theall-powerful communist political
police would explain to us thatthey held all the power, while
we held none.
They demanded that we cease ouractivities, arguing that
thousands of innocent peoplesuffered because of us.
They stripped us of our freedomand civil rights because we
(14:10):
refused to cooperate with thegovernment or express gratitude
for our oppression.
We are shocked that PresidentVladimir Zelensky was treated in
this same manner.
The history of the 20th centuryshows that whenever the United
States sought to distance itselffrom democratic values, its
European allies, it ultimatelybecame a threat to itself.
(14:31):
President Woodshire Wilsonunderstood this when he decided
in 1917 that the United Statesmust join World War.
I President Franklin DelanoRoosevelt understood this after
the attack on Pearl Harbor inDecember 1941.
He resolved that the war todefend America must be fought
(14:52):
not only in the Pacific but alsoin Europe, in the alliance with
the nations under the attack bythe Third Reich.
We remember that withoutPresident Ronald Reagan and
America's final commitment tothe collapse of the Soviet
empire, we would not have beenpossible.
President Reagan recognizedthat millions of enslaved people
(15:13):
suffered in the Soviet Russiaand that countries had
subjugated, including thousandsof political prisoners, who paid
for their defense of democraticvalues with their freedoms.
His greatness lay, among otherthings, in his unwavering
decision to call the USSR anempire of evil and to fight it
(15:33):
decisively.
We won, and today the statue ofPresident Reagan stands in
Warsaw facing the US Embassy.
Mr President, material aid,military and financial, can
never be equated with the bloodshed in the name of Ukraine's
independence and freedom ofEurope and the entire free world
.
Human life is priceless.
It cannot be measured in money.
(15:56):
Gratitude is due to those whosacrifice their blood and their
freedom.
This is self-evident to us andthe peoples of solidarity,
former political prisoners ofthe communist regime under the
Soviet Russia.
We call on the United States touphold the guarantees made
alongside Great Britain in 1994and the Budapest Memorandum,
which established a directobligation to defend Ukraine's
(16:18):
territorial integrity inexchange for its relinquishing
of nuclear weapons.
These guarantees areunconditional.
There's no mentioning oftreating such assistance as an
economic transaction.
Signed Les Welsa, formerpolitical prisoner.
President of Poland.
We'll be right back with more.
(17:03):
So, that was the legendaryinvestor, the oracle from omaha,
warren buffett, on the trumptariffs that have now come into
effect 25 tariffs on importsfrom canada and mexico.
Now they propose a um are hit a10% tariff on China.
(17:27):
Now that is on top of analready instituted 10% tariff on
Chinese imports.
So China and Canada, mexicoswiftly responded, china and
Canada putting their own tariffson the US.
Swiftly, canada buying tariffsup to 25%.
(17:51):
Doug Ford, the Ontario fromCanada, said that the economic
back and forth tariffs betweenthe United States and Canada
would cause devastation to bothcountries.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It's one person that's coming to attack us
economically your closest friend, your treasured ally, that will
stand shoulder to shoulder withyou in every situation you've
faced and he's attacking theperson his number one customer.
There's no country in the worldthat buys more products off the
US than we do.
(18:26):
We're the number one tradingcustomer to 28 states, and a lot
of them are red states.
They're going to feel a painlike they've never felt before.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
Now together China, mexico, Canada made up 40% of
exports to the United Stateslast year.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Yeah, good morning.
Right now we're looking at thefutures.
I'm looking right now I meanbasically flat, moving
fractionally higher or lower,but of course, yesterday we saw
a major sell-off on Wall Street,with the S&P 500, often called
the broader market having itsworst day of the year, the
tech-heavy Nasdaq down more than2.5%.
So these tariffs, they'reraising a lot of questions for
investors, business leaders andsmall business owners.
(19:07):
We can't leave Main Street outof this.
The questions are will theyspark inflation?
Will they metaphorically be thestraw in the back of the camel
for the consumer that's alreadystretched thin?
And what will other countriesdo in response from tariffs to
other measures?
Today we saw China put USbiotech company Illumina on
their list of companies thatthey believe threaten national
security.
And while these kind of things,it's not necessarily official
(19:29):
retaliation, there's othercompanies that work within China
that need state approval fordifferent business initiatives.
One name often mentioned isApple.
They essentially need Chinesegovernment approval to launch
their Apple intelligence servicefor iPhones there.
So, as we look at this, thequestion is what kind of impact
will tariffs have on the USeconomy and on the markets?
We had the head of research forJP Morgan on my show yesterday.
(19:49):
According to her research, lastyear the effective tariff rate
here in the US it was about 2%,just over that.
With these tariffs that wentinto effect today that's going
to jump up to approximately 9%.
And then we also have a WallStreet that's become
increasingly sensitive toeconomic reports and economic
data.
Yesterday we had one thatcertainly seemed to shock
investors.
It came from the Atlanta Fed.
They put out a forecast for GDPgross domestic product, kind of
(20:13):
the report card for the economy.
They updated on a regular basis.
So back on February 28th theyhad a forecast of GDP being down
1.5% for Q1.
Yesterday they put out a newforecast down 2.8 percent.
Certainly a shock to the market, a big change when it comes to
that.
So a lot of questions aboutthese tariffs and how's it all
(20:33):
going to play out?
There was some thought beforethat these tariffs, they were a
negotiating ploy, but now we seethe president's very serious
about implementing them.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
GDP down, inflation up.
That was CSNBC's anchor, FrankHolland.
If you want to check out someof his reporting.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
China didn't waste any time in retaliating against
the new US tariffs, announcingtheir own broad tariffs on
American food and effectivelytelling US companies 15 of them
that they can no longer dobusiness here without getting
special permission.
This is a big hit for Americanfarmers, especially in the
Midwest.
They export a lot to China.
(21:10):
It's the largest food importerin the world Chicken, wheat,
corn, cotton all subject to a15% tariff and 10% tariffs on
sorghum, soybeans, pork, beef,fruits, vegetables, dairy and
aquatic products.
Now these levies take effect onMarch the 10th, which is a sign
that Beijing is allowing sometime and room for negotiation,
(21:31):
but the fact is there has beenvery little communication
between these two sides sincePresident Trump announced
tariffs last month.
There's now together 20% onnearly all Chinese goods.
Now the White House says thisis about fentanyl, accusing
China of doing too little tostop the flow of it into the US.
This is something China takesgreat exception to, pointing to
(21:53):
counter-narcotics cooperationwith US officials.
Beijing is also warning the USabout using tariffs as a
national security tool and saythat the Trump administration,
to this point, doesn't appear toknow what it wants from China.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
There is high level ambiguity understood from here,
because one is that what exactlyDonald Trump really wants from
China?
So simply to address the drugissue, or he wants something of
significant meaning of economicpact.
What exactly is the package hereally desires?
(22:34):
So retaliation is to expressthe Chinese attitude, but
eventually China sees that it'snot really going to help the US
industry, it's not going to helpthe US economy.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
Officially, the foreign ministry has called the
terrorist blackmail and they'vehinted that it might curtail or
even cut counter-narcoticcooperation.
They've done it before, sothere's precedent for that, and
it also reiterated the positionthat they think the root cause
of the fentanyl problem is inthe US itself.
Now, for the US businesses addedto this unreliable entities
list, it means companies likeSkydio, the drone maker that
(23:13):
supplies the military.
They can't buy Chinese-madecomponents anymore without
special permission.
Now, in terms of next steps,beijing could move to improve
trade relations with Europe,which has its own complaints
about China and EVs andovercapacity and also facing US
tariffs.
But the message the leadershiphere appears to be sending is
that unilateral tariffs don'twork and that ultimately, us
(23:37):
businesses and US consumers willpay the price.
And I just want to quickly addsomething on Chinese consumers,
who are seen as being quiteconformist and following the
government guardrails.
We have, over the past year orso, seen a move that Chinese
consumers have made fromAmerican products to more
(23:58):
Chinese-made products.
What there is some discussionof is perhaps the potential for
Chinese consumers to outrightboycott American companies like
Starbucks, like McDonald's, likeKFC, which would, of course,
hurt US businesses even further.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
For a little bit of reiteration or clarification
here how China, canada, mexicoare retaliating when it comes to
the tariffs is the officials inCanada?
China announced the retaliatoryactions on Tuesday after
President Trump's 25% tariff onall imports from Canada Mexico
(24:39):
went into effect after midnight.
Along with the additional 10%levy on Chinese goods and on top
of a 10% tariff that wasalready enacted last month,
chinese authorities announced a10% to 15% increase in import
duties on several key Americanagricultural and food products
(24:59):
and expanded export control on15 US firms.
Chinese finance minister saidan additional 15% tariff will be
imposed on US firms.
Chinese finance minister saidan additional 15 percent tariffs
will be imposed on US chicken,wheat, corn, cotton imports, as
well as soybeans, soy corn, pork, beef, aquatic products, fruits
, vegetables, dairy imports willface an additional 10 percent
(25:21):
levy.
Both will go into effect onMarch the 10th.
In a separate announcement,china's Ministry of Commerce
announced it was expanding itsports control on dual-use items
which can be used for bothcivilian and military purposes,
to target several US defensecontractors, including Lidos,
general Aeronautical Systems andGeneral Dynamics Land Systems.
(25:44):
Canadian Prime Minister JustinTrudeau announced that his
country will respond to Trump'stariffs with a 25% retaliatory
duties against the CAD $155billion or $170 billion of
American goods.
Trudeau said tariffs on CAD $30billion, or $20.7 billion worth
of goods will go into effectimmediately and tariffs on the
(26:07):
remaining CAD $125 billion $86.3billion American products will
go into effect in 21 days, andboth will remain in place until
the US trade action is withdrawn.
Early on Monday, mexicanPresident Claudia Sabino said a
a conference and patience wasneeded and her country had a
(26:28):
plan A, a plan B and a plan C,even a plan D in place, without
offering much more detail on thecontingency plan.
The US unilateral tariffsincreased damages the
multilateral trading system,increases the burden of US
companies and consumers andundermines the foundation of the
economic and rural cooperationbetween China and the US, the
Chinese finance minister said inan announcement.
(26:50):
Further reactions are likely toemerge during the daily Chinese
foreign minister's pressbriefing throughout the week.
Trudeau called the tariffs andmeasures unjustified and added
because of tariffs imposed bythe United States, americans
will pay more for groceries, gasand cars and potentially lose
thousands of jobs.
(27:11):
Tariffs will disrupt anincredibly successful trading
relationship.
They will violate the verytrade agreement that was
negotiated by President Trump inhis last term.
In an announcement, the Canadianprime minister also warned that
if the levies are not lifted,the government is in a
discussion with provisional andregional authorities to pursue
several non-tariff measures Inaddition to the retaliatory
(27:33):
tariffs and export control.
Chinese authorities have alsoannounced they are banning
imports of genetic sequencingmachines made by the US biotech
firms Aluma.
The ban comes almost a monthafter Aluma was added to an
unreliable entity list alongwith Kelvin Klein parent company
, pvh Group, and at the timeBeijing accused the companies of
(27:53):
cutting normal transactionswith Chinese enterprise and
adopting discriminatory measuresagainst Chinese firms.
The Commerce Minister alsoannounced the addition of the 10
other US firms to itsunreliable entities list,
including America's largestmilitary shipbuilder, huntington
Ingalls Industry.
(28:15):
So yeah, wall Street Journal putout another thing on this and
doubled down and said that thiswas a dumb trade war and said
something like uh, donald Trumpfalls into a dumb trade war.
Wall Street Journal, of course,the Republican uh paper uh kind
of used to be the RepublicanBible as far as uh uh, the
(28:38):
Republican thought was, and theyhave been uh unanimous in their
critique of tariffs.
Be back with the Blasphemy ofthe Intellectual Past.
See you on the next episode.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
It's true that people have asked that question again
and again.
Should we tell kids thatColumbus, whom they've been told
was a great hero, that Columbusmutilated Indians and kidnapped
them and killed them in pursuitof gold?
Should we tell people thatTheodore Roosevelt, who was held
(29:12):
up as one of our greatpresidents, who was really a
warmonger, who loved militaryexploits and who congratulated
an American general whocommitted a massacre in the
Philippines?
Should we tell young peoplethat?
And I think my answer is weshould be honest with young
people, we should not deceivethem, we should be honest about
(29:34):
the history of our country andwe should be not only taking
down the traditional heroes likeAndrew Jackson, theodore
Roosevelt, but we should begiving young people an alternate
set of heroes.
Instead of Theodore Roosevelt,tell them about Mark Twain.
Mark Twain, well, mark Twaineverybody learns about as the
(29:57):
author of Tom Sawyer andHuckleberry Finn, but when we go
to school, we don't learn aboutMark Twain as the vice
president of theanti-imperialist league.
We aren't told that Mark Twaindenounced Theodore Roosevelt for
approving this massacre of thePhilippines.
We want to give young peopleideal figures like Helen Keller,
(30:22):
and I remember learning aboutHelen Keller.
Everybody learns about HelenKeller and I remember learning
about Helen Keller.
Everybody learns about HelenKeller.
You know a disabled person whoovercame her handicaps and
became famous.
But people don't learn in schooland young people don't learn in
school what we want them tolearn when we do books like A
Young People's History of theUnited States.
(30:42):
And Helen Keller was asocialist, she was a labor
organizer, she refused to crossa picket line that was picketing
a theater showing a play abouther, and so there are these
alternate heroes in Americanhistory.
There's Fannie Lou Hamer andBob Moses.
(31:04):
They're the heroes of the CivilRights Movement.
There are a lot of people whoare obscure, who are not known.
We have in this young people'shistory.
We have a young hero who wassitting on the bus in Montgomery
, alabama, refused to leave thefront of the bus and it was
(31:26):
before Rosa Parks I mean, rosaParks is justifiably famous for
refusing to leave her seat andshe got arrested and that was
the beginning of the Montgomerybus boycott and really the
beginning of a great movement inthe South.
But this 15-year-old girl didit first.
But we, this 15-year-old girl,did it first, and so we have a
(31:47):
lot of.
We are trying to bring a lot ofthese obscure people back into
the forefront of our attentionand inspire young people to say
this is the way to live.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
That's Howard Zinn appearing on Democracy Now in
2009.
He killed a lot of people and he didn't exchange
prisons.
We signed the exchange ofprisons, but he didn't do it.
What kind of diplomacy JT youasked me about?
What does it mean?
I'm talking about the kind ofdiplomacy that's going to end
the destruction of your country.
Mr President, with respect, Ithink it's disrespectful for you
(00:23):
to come to the Oval Office andtry to litigate this in front of
the American media Right now.
You guys are going aroundenforcing conscripts to the
front lines because you havemanpower problems.
You should be thanking thepresident for trying to bring it
into this conference.
Have you ever been to Ukraine?
Did you say what problems wehave?
I have been to— thecommonwealth.
I've actually watched and seenthe stories, stories, and I know
(00:47):
what happens.
Is you bring people?
You bring them on a propagandatour.
Mr President, do you disagreethat you've had problems
bringing people in your military?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
And do you think that it's?
Speaker 3 (00:55):
respectful to come to the Oval Office of the.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
United States of America and attack the
administration that is trying toprevent the destruction of your
country.
I love the questions.
Let's start from the bigpicture.
First of all, during the war,everybody has problems, even you
, but you have a nice ocean anddon't feel now, but you will
feel it in the future.
God bless you.
God bless you, god bless you.
(01:19):
Don't tell us what we're goingto feel.
We're trying to solve a problem.
Don't tell us what we're goingto feel, because you're in no
position to dictate that.
You're in no position todictate what we're going to feel
.
We're going to feel very good.
We're going to feel very goodand very strong.
(01:40):
You're, right now, not in a verygood position.
You've allowed yourself to bein a very bad position, and he
happens to be right about it.
You're, right now, not in avery good position.
You've allowed yourself to bein a very bad position and he
happens to be right about it.
You're not in a good position.
You don't have the cards.
Right now, with us, you starthaving cards.
Right now, you're playing cards.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You're playing cards.
You're gambling with the livesof millions of people.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
You're gambling with World War III.
You're gambling with World WarIII.
You're gambling with World WarIII, and what you're doing is
very disrespectful to thecountry, this country.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
That's back to you.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Far more than a lot of people said.
We should have.
Have you said thank you once.
This entire meeting, no, thisentire meeting.
You said thank you.
You went to Pennsylvania andcampaigned for the opposition in
October, offered some words ofappreciation for the United
States of America and thepresident is trying to save your
country.
Please, you think that if youwill speak very loudly about the
(02:37):
war, you will win?
He's not speaking loudly.
He's not speaking loudly.
Your country is in big trouble.
Wait a minute.
No, no, you've done a lot oftalking.
Your country is in big trouble.
You've done a lot of talking.
Your country is in big trouble.
I know You're not winning this.
You have a damn good chance ofcoming out okay because of us,
mr President, we have seen inour country staying strong from
the very beginning.
We don't do more, we're beatingthe load and we are thankful.
(02:59):
I said thanks to you.
You haven't been alone.
You haven't been alone.
We gave you through this stupidpresident $350 billion.
We gave you military equipmentand your men are brave, but they
have used our militaryequipment.
If you didn't have our militaryequipment, if you didn't have
our military equipment, this warwould have been over in two
weeks, In three days.
I heard it from Putin In threedays.
(03:20):
This is how many of us In twoweeks, in three days.
I heard it from Putin In threedays.
This is how many of us In twoweeks.
Of course, yes, it's going tobe a very hard thing to do.
Business like this.
Just say thank you, I said,except that there are
disagreements, and let's golitigate those disagreements
rather than trying to fight itout in the American media.
(03:42):
When you're wrong, we know thatyou're wrong.
You see, I think it's good forthe American people to see
what's going on.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I think it's very important.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
That's why I kept this going so long.
You have to be thankful youdon't have the cards.
You're buried there.
You have people that died.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
You're running low on soldiers.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Listen, you're running low on soldiers, it
would be a damn good thing.
And then you tell us I don'twant a ceasefire.
I don't want a ceasefire, Iwant to go and I want this.
Look, if you could get aceasefire right now, I tell you
you take it, so the bullets stopflying and your men stop
getting killed.
Of course we want to stop thewar, but you're saying you don't
(04:21):
want a see, I want to seebecause you get a ceasefire
faster than I.
Agree.
A lot of people have alwaysjust smile when they see that
wasn't with me, that wasn't withme that was with a guy named
Biden who was not a smart person.
That was your.
That was with Obama.
Excuse me, that was with Obama,who gave you sheets and I gave
you javelins.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
I gave you the javelins, to take out all those
tax.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Obama gave you sheets and I gave you javelins.
I gave you the javelins to takeout all those tax.
Obama gave you sheets.
In fact, the statement is Obamagave sheets and Trump gave
javelins.
Speaker 6 (04:54):
This exchange was viewed very differently by very
different people.
I got some friends who thoughtit was necessary because and
they thought that the presidentlooked strong.
I thought some people whothought the president looked
(05:15):
unhinged and weak.
I could say that this wastowards the end of the meeting.
The meeting had somewhat goneon for about 45 minutes before
this came up.
Now this somewhat went off therails because um zielinski made
(05:41):
the move, pointing out thatPutin had broken a ceasefire in
2015.
And when that happened, vancestarted talking about diplomacy,
but Zelensky was somewhattrying to point out that the
diplomacy doesn't matter becausePutin is not a trustworthy
(06:03):
partner.
Doesn't matter because Putin isnot a trustworthy partner.
Now Zelensky spoke a verysimple truth which was deemed,
for some reason, totallyunacceptable because he was
trying to litigate the issue infront of the press.
I, when I looked at it, I wassomewhat embarrassed.
(06:24):
I, when I looked at it, I wassomewhat embarrassed because it
didn't seem like it was seriousconversation.
I'm thinking that somebody'scountry is at war and the media
(06:45):
is asking silly questions likewhy don't you wear a suit?
And that media personality wassomebody who was supposed to get
access to bring more of anindependent media thing in there
, but it's Marjorie Taylor,marjorie Taylor Greene's
boyfriend.
And then, of course, you goback to the historical
comparisons and you say, well,you know, when Winston Churchill
(07:06):
went to the white house, um,during the war, he, he never
wore a suit.
You know, you imagine, wouldthat be an outrage if, if that
was to happen today.
And then you see how somewhatfake this was.
But this did make europe haveto somewhat stand up.
(07:28):
The uh polish prime ministercame out and said uh, dear
zielinski, dear ukrainianfriends, you are not alone.
The president, uh, lithuania,said ukraine, you'll never walk
alone.
The president of denmark cameout and said dear zielinski, den
Denmark proudly stands withUkraine and the Ukrainian people
(07:48):
.
The president of France cameout there's an aggressor, it's
Russia.
There are people beingaggressed Ukraine.
We are all right to helpUkraine in sectioning Russia
three years ago and continue todo so.
We that the Americans, theEuropeans, the Canadians, the
(08:09):
Japanese and many others,because they are fighting for
their dignity, theirindependence, for their children
and for the security of Europe.
The president of Moldova saidthe truth is simple.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Russia is the aggressor.
Ukraine defends its freedom andours.
We stand with ukraine.
The swedish prime minister saidsweden stands in ukraine.
(08:31):
You are not only fighting foryour freedom, but also for all
of europe.
Sliver ukraine.
The incoming german chancellorsaid dear zelinski, we we stand
with Ukraine in good and intesting times.
We must never confuse theaggressor and the victim in this
terrible war.
The Croatian prime ministerstepped up and said Croatia
(08:55):
knows from its own experiencethat only a just peace can last.
The Croatian government standsfirm in its belief that Ukraine
needs such peace, a peace thatmeans sovereignty, territorial
integrity and a secure Europe.
Finland's prime minister stoodup and said Finland and the
Finnish people stand firmly withUkraine.
We will continue our unwaveringsupport and work towards a just
(09:17):
and lasting peace.
Estonian prime minister said westand with Ukraine.
We united with Zelensky andUkrainian in our fight for
freedom, always because it isright, not easy.
Ireland's deputy prime ministersaid Ukraine is not to blame for
this war brought about byRussia's illegal invasion.
We stand with Ukraine.
(09:37):
The prime minister, well, thepresident of the Leviticus said
Ukraine is a victim of Russianaggression.
It's a fight to war.
With the help from many friendsand partners, we need to spare
no effort for just a lastingpeace.
Leviticus stands with Ukraine.
The Prime Minister of theNetherlands said the Netherlands
(09:59):
support Ukraine as firmly asever.
No more than ever.
We must Ukraine as firmly asever.
No more than ever we must.
We want a lasting peace and theend of the war of aggression
started by Russia for Ukraineand its people and for Europe.
The prime minister ofLuxembourg said Luxembourg
stands with Ukraine.
You're fighting for yourfreedom and a rules-based
international order.
(10:20):
Now I will say this and I'll saythis is a very frustrating
situation.
It's very frustrating becauseUkraine is only in this
(10:44):
situation because of a treatysigned in 1994 that guaranteed
the security exchange foramerica for releasing the
nuclear weapons program, youknow, relinquishing the nuclear
weapons program.
It was extensional, or isextensional, I should say, to
note that Russia was also asigner of the treaty.
(11:07):
It was Russia's actions thatviolated the treaty, not the
United States, not Ukraine.
But at the same time, I couldsay that the United States
posture towards Russia and Chinafor a very long time has been
(11:34):
obviously antagonistic and Ithink that there's a reason why,
uh, trump somewhat behaves theway he behaves towards the
European order, I should say,and I think that is because he's
(11:55):
very skeptical of it and Ithink he, you know, is very
skeptical of the European Union.
I think he's skeptical of NATO.
I think you can somewhat see inthe way he reacts to our
closest neighboring ally, canada, that the president
fundamentally questions a lot ofthese partnerships, and that
(12:19):
includes our partnership withUkraine, and wondering why we
don't support Russia in thistype of encounter.
So, in that same spirit ofpeople weighing in around the
world, the former president ofPoland, lech Wałsa, wrote the
(12:42):
following letter to the currentpresident of the United States,
donald Trump.
Your Excellency, mr President,we watched the report of your
conversation with President ofUkraine Vladimir Zelensky with
fear and distaste.
We find it insulting that youexpect Ukraine to show respect
(13:05):
and gratitude for the materialassistance provided in the
United States fight againstRussia.
Gratitude is owed to the heroicUkrainian soldiers who have
shed their blood in defense ofthe values of a free world.
They have been dying on thefront lines for more than 11
years in the name of thesevalues and the independence of
(13:26):
their homeland, which wasattacked by Putin's Russia.
Independence of their homeland,which was attacked by Putin's
Russia.
We do not understand how theleader of a country that
symbolizes the free world cannotrecognize this.
Our alarm was also heightened bythe atmosphere in the Oval
Office.
During this conversation, whichreminded us of the
interrogations we endured at thehands of security services and
(13:48):
the debates in the communistcourts, prosecutors and judges
acting on behalf of theall-powerful communist political
police would explain to us thatthey held all the power, while
we held none.
They demanded that we cease ouractivities, arguing that
thousands of innocent peoplesuffered because of us.
They stripped us of our freedomand civil rights because we
(14:10):
refused to cooperate with thegovernment or express gratitude
for our oppression.
We are shocked that PresidentVladimir Zelensky was treated in
this same manner.
The history of the 20th centuryshows that whenever the United
States sought to distance itselffrom democratic values, its
European allies, it ultimatelybecame a threat to itself.
(14:31):
President Woodshire Wilsonunderstood this when he decided
in 1917 that the United Statesmust join World War.
I President Franklin DelanoRoosevelt understood this after
the attack on Pearl Harbor inDecember 1941.
He resolved that the war todefend America must be fought
(14:52):
not only in the Pacific but alsoin Europe, in the alliance with
the nations under the attack bythe Third Reich.
We remember that withoutPresident Ronald Reagan and
America's final commitment tothe collapse of the Soviet
empire, we would not have beenpossible.
President Reagan recognizedthat millions of enslaved people
(15:13):
suffered in the Soviet Russiaand that countries had
subjugated, including thousandsof political prisoners, who paid
for their defense of democraticvalues with their freedoms.
His greatness lay, among otherthings, in his unwavering
decision to call the USSR anempire of evil and to fight it
(15:33):
decisively.
We won, and today the statue ofPresident Reagan stands in
Warsaw facing the US Embassy.
Mr President, material aid,military and financial, can
never be equated with the bloodshed in the name of Ukraine's
independence and freedom ofEurope and the entire free world
.
Human life is priceless.
It cannot be measured in money.
(15:56):
Gratitude is due to those whosacrifice their blood and their
freedom.
This is self-evident to us andthe peoples of solidarity,
former political prisoners ofthe communist regime under the
Soviet Russia.
We call on the United States touphold the guarantees made
alongside Great Britain in 1994and the Budapest Memorandum,
which established a directobligation to defend Ukraine's
(16:18):
territorial integrity inexchange for its relinquishing
of nuclear weapons.
These guarantees areunconditional.
There's no mentioning oftreating such assistance as an
economic transaction.
Signed Les Welsa, formerpolitical prisoner.
President of Poland.
We'll be right back with more.
(17:03):
So, that was the legendaryinvestor, the oracle from omaha,
warren buffett, on the trumptariffs that have now come into
effect 25 tariffs on importsfrom canada and mexico.
Now they propose a um are hit a10% tariff on China.
(17:27):
Now that is on top of analready instituted 10% tariff on
Chinese imports.
So China and Canada, mexicoswiftly responded, china and
Canada putting their own tariffson the US.
Swiftly, canada buying tariffsup to 25%.
(17:51):
Doug Ford, the Ontario fromCanada, said that the economic
back and forth tariffs betweenthe United States and Canada
would cause devastation to bothcountries.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
It's one person that's coming to attack us
economically your closest friend, your treasured ally, that will
stand shoulder to shoulder withyou in every situation you've
faced and he's attacking theperson his number one customer.
There's no country in the worldthat buys more products off the
US than we do.
(18:26):
We're the number one tradingcustomer to 28 states, and a lot
of them are red states.
They're going to feel a painlike they've never felt before.
Speaker 6 (18:36):
Now together China, mexico, Canada made up 40% of
exports to the United Stateslast year.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
Yeah, good morning.
Right now we're looking at thefutures.
I'm looking right now I meanbasically flat, moving
fractionally higher or lower,but of course, yesterday we saw
a major sell-off on Wall Street,with the S&P 500, often called
the broader market having itsworst day of the year, the
tech-heavy Nasdaq down more than2.5%.
So these tariffs, they'reraising a lot of questions for
investors, business leaders andsmall business owners.
(19:07):
We can't leave Main Street outof this.
The questions are will theyspark inflation?
Will they metaphorically be thestraw in the back of the camel
for the consumer that's alreadystretched thin?
And what will other countriesdo in response from tariffs to
other measures?
Today we saw China put USbiotech company Illumina on
their list of companies thatthey believe threaten national
security.
And while these kind of things,it's not necessarily official
(19:29):
retaliation, there's othercompanies that work within China
that need state approval fordifferent business initiatives.
One name often mentioned isApple.
They essentially need Chinesegovernment approval to launch
their Apple intelligence servicefor iPhones there.
So, as we look at this, thequestion is what kind of impact
will tariffs have on the USeconomy and on the markets?
We had the head of research forJP Morgan on my show yesterday.
(19:49):
According to her research, lastyear the effective tariff rate
here in the US it was about 2%,just over that.
With these tariffs that wentinto effect today that's going
to jump up to approximately 9%.
And then we also have a WallStreet that's become
increasingly sensitive toeconomic reports and economic
data.
Yesterday we had one thatcertainly seemed to shock
investors.
It came from the Atlanta Fed.
They put out a forecast for GDPgross domestic product, kind of
(20:13):
the report card for the economy.
They updated on a regular basis.
So back on February 28th theyhad a forecast of GDP being down
1.5% for Q1.
Yesterday they put out a newforecast down 2.8 percent.
Certainly a shock to the market, a big change when it comes to
that.
So a lot of questions aboutthese tariffs and how's it all
(20:33):
going to play out?
There was some thought beforethat these tariffs, they were a
negotiating ploy, but now we seethe president's very serious
about implementing them.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
GDP down, inflation up.
That was CSNBC's anchor, FrankHolland.
If you want to check out someof his reporting.
Speaker 7 (20:50):
China didn't waste any time in retaliating against
the new US tariffs, announcingtheir own broad tariffs on
American food and effectivelytelling US companies 15 of them
that they can no longer dobusiness here without getting
special permission.
This is a big hit for Americanfarmers, especially in the
Midwest.
They export a lot to China.
(21:10):
It's the largest food importerin the world Chicken, wheat,
corn, cotton all subject to a15% tariff and 10% tariffs on
sorghum, soybeans, pork, beef,fruits, vegetables, dairy and
aquatic products.
Now these levies take effect onMarch the 10th, which is a sign
that Beijing is allowing sometime and room for negotiation,
(21:31):
but the fact is there has beenvery little communication
between these two sides sincePresident Trump announced
tariffs last month.
There's now together 20% onnearly all Chinese goods.
Now the White House says thisis about fentanyl, accusing
China of doing too little tostop the flow of it into the US.
This is something China takesgreat exception to, pointing to
(21:53):
counter-narcotics cooperationwith US officials.
Beijing is also warning the USabout using tariffs as a
national security tool and saythat the Trump administration,
to this point, doesn't appear toknow what it wants from China.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
There is high level ambiguity understood from here,
because one is that what exactlyDonald Trump really wants from
China?
So simply to address the drugissue, or he wants something of
significant meaning of economicpact.
What exactly is the package hereally desires?
(22:34):
So retaliation is to expressthe Chinese attitude, but
eventually China sees that it'snot really going to help the US
industry, it's not going to helpthe US economy.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
Officially, the foreign ministry has called the
terrorist blackmail and they'vehinted that it might curtail or
even cut counter-narcoticcooperation.
They've done it before, sothere's precedent for that, and
it also reiterated the positionthat they think the root cause
of the fentanyl problem is inthe US itself.
Now, for the US businesses addedto this unreliable entities
list, it means companies likeSkydio, the drone maker that
(23:13):
supplies the military.
They can't buy Chinese-madecomponents anymore without
special permission.
Now, in terms of next steps,beijing could move to improve
trade relations with Europe,which has its own complaints
about China and EVs andovercapacity and also facing US
tariffs.
But the message the leadershiphere appears to be sending is
that unilateral tariffs don'twork and that ultimately, us
(23:37):
businesses and US consumers willpay the price.
And I just want to quickly addsomething on Chinese consumers,
who are seen as being quiteconformist and following the
government guardrails.
We have, over the past year orso, seen a move that Chinese
consumers have made fromAmerican products to more
(23:58):
Chinese-made products.
What there is some discussionof is perhaps the potential for
Chinese consumers to outrightboycott American companies like
Starbucks, like McDonald's, likeKFC, which would, of course,
hurt US businesses even further.
Speaker 6 (24:14):
For a little bit of reiteration or clarification
here how China, canada, mexicoare retaliating when it comes to
the tariffs is the officials inCanada?
China announced the retaliatoryactions on Tuesday after
President Trump's 25% tariff onall imports from Canada Mexico
(24:39):
went into effect after midnight.
Along with the additional 10%levy on Chinese goods and on top
of a 10% tariff that wasalready enacted last month,
chinese authorities announced a10% to 15% increase in import
duties on several key Americanagricultural and food products
(24:59):
and expanded export control on15 US firms.
Chinese finance minister saidan additional 15% tariff will be
imposed on US firms.
Chinese finance minister saidan additional 15 percent tariffs
will be imposed on US chicken,wheat, corn, cotton imports, as
well as soybeans, soy corn, pork, beef, aquatic products, fruits
, vegetables, dairy imports willface an additional 10 percent
(25:21):
levy.
Both will go into effect onMarch the 10th.
In a separate announcement,china's Ministry of Commerce
announced it was expanding itsports control on dual-use items
which can be used for bothcivilian and military purposes,
to target several US defensecontractors, including Lidos,
general Aeronautical Systems andGeneral Dynamics Land Systems.
(25:44):
Canadian Prime Minister JustinTrudeau announced that his
country will respond to Trump'stariffs with a 25% retaliatory
duties against the CAD $155billion or $170 billion of
American goods.
Trudeau said tariffs on CAD $30billion, or $20.7 billion worth
of goods will go into effectimmediately and tariffs on the
(26:07):
remaining CAD $125 billion $86.3billion American products will
go into effect in 21 days, andboth will remain in place until
the US trade action is withdrawn.
Early on Monday, mexicanPresident Claudia Sabino said a
a conference and patience wasneeded and her country had a
(26:28):
plan A, a plan B and a plan C,even a plan D in place, without
offering much more detail on thecontingency plan.
The US unilateral tariffsincreased damages the
multilateral trading system,increases the burden of US
companies and consumers andundermines the foundation of the
economic and rural cooperationbetween China and the US, the
Chinese finance minister said inan announcement.
(26:50):
Further reactions are likely toemerge during the daily Chinese
foreign minister's pressbriefing throughout the week.
Trudeau called the tariffs andmeasures unjustified and added
because of tariffs imposed bythe United States, americans
will pay more for groceries, gasand cars and potentially lose
thousands of jobs.
(27:11):
Tariffs will disrupt anincredibly successful trading
relationship.
They will violate the verytrade agreement that was
negotiated by President Trump inhis last term.
In an announcement, the Canadianprime minister also warned that
if the levies are not lifted,the government is in a
discussion with provisional andregional authorities to pursue
several non-tariff measures Inaddition to the retaliatory
(27:33):
tariffs and export control.
Chinese authorities have alsoannounced they are banning
imports of genetic sequencingmachines made by the US biotech
firms Aluma.
The ban comes almost a monthafter Aluma was added to an
unreliable entity list alongwith Kelvin Klein parent company
, pvh Group, and at the timeBeijing accused the companies of
(27:53):
cutting normal transactionswith Chinese enterprise and
adopting discriminatory measuresagainst Chinese firms.
The Commerce Minister alsoannounced the addition of the 10
other US firms to itsunreliable entities list,
including America's largestmilitary shipbuilder, huntington
Ingalls Industry.
(28:15):
So yeah, wall Street Journal putout another thing on this and
doubled down and said that thiswas a dumb trade war and said
something like uh, donald Trumpfalls into a dumb trade war.
Wall Street Journal, of course,the Republican uh paper uh kind
of used to be the RepublicanBible as far as uh uh, the
(28:38):
Republican thought was, and theyhave been uh unanimous in their
critique of tariffs.
Be back with the Blasphemy ofthe Intellectual Past.
See you on the next episode.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
It's true that people have asked that question again
and again.
Should we tell kids thatColumbus, whom they've been told
was a great hero, that Columbusmutilated Indians and kidnapped
them and killed them in pursuitof gold?
Should we tell people thatTheodore Roosevelt, who was held
(29:12):
up as one of our greatpresidents, who was really a
warmonger, who loved militaryexploits and who congratulated
an American general whocommitted a massacre in the
Philippines?
Should we tell young peoplethat?
And I think my answer is weshould be honest with young
people, we should not deceivethem, we should be honest about
(29:34):
the history of our country andwe should be not only taking
down the traditional heroes likeAndrew Jackson, theodore
Roosevelt, but we should begiving young people an alternate
set of heroes.
Instead of Theodore Roosevelt,tell them about Mark Twain.
Mark Twain, well, mark Twaineverybody learns about as the
(29:57):
author of Tom Sawyer andHuckleberry Finn, but when we go
to school, we don't learn aboutMark Twain as the vice
president of theanti-imperialist league.
We aren't told that Mark Twaindenounced Theodore Roosevelt for
approving this massacre of thePhilippines.
We want to give young peopleideal figures like Helen Keller,
(30:22):
and I remember learning aboutHelen Keller.
Everybody learns about HelenKeller and I remember learning
about Helen Keller.
Everybody learns about HelenKeller.
You know a disabled person whoovercame her handicaps and
became famous.
But people don't learn in schooland young people don't learn in
school what we want them tolearn when we do books like A
Young People's History of theUnited States.
(30:42):
And Helen Keller was asocialist, she was a labor
organizer, she refused to crossa picket line that was picketing
a theater showing a play abouther, and so there are these
alternate heroes in Americanhistory.
There's Fannie Lou Hamer andBob Moses.
(31:04):
They're the heroes of the CivilRights Movement.
There are a lot of people whoare obscure, who are not known.
We have in this young people'shistory.
We have a young hero who wassitting on the bus in Montgomery
, alabama, refused to leave thefront of the bus and it was
(31:26):
before Rosa Parks I mean, rosaParks is justifiably famous for
refusing to leave her seat andshe got arrested and that was
the beginning of the Montgomerybus boycott and really the
beginning of a great movement inthe South.
But this 15-year-old girl didit first.
But we, this 15-year-old girl,did it first, and so we have a
(31:47):
lot of.
We are trying to bring a lot ofthese obscure people back into
the forefront of our attentionand inspire young people to say
this is the way to live.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
That's Howard Zinn appearing on Democracy Now in
2009.
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