October 10, 2025 • 47 mins
One line lit the fuse: leaked texts from a statewide nominee invoked “three people, two bullets,” forcing Virginia’s race into a referendum on responsibility, tone, and what leaders are willing to condemn—and what they’re not. We walk you into the Norfolk clash where Abigail Spanberger stayed steady and Winsome Earle-Sears swung for the knockout, then map how that posture war—calm competency versus disruptive force—plays with early votes already in the bank. From abortion framing to school fights, we pull apart the emotional architecture of persuasion and why most viewers remember gears and grit over policy footnotes.
The story widens with a chilling update on the Pacific Palisades fire. Prosecutors allege a planned arson seeded on New Year’s Day smoldered underground before wind turned it into one of L.A.’s worst disasters. We break down the digital trail—from rideshare logs to AI-generated imagery—that investigators say reveals motive and method, and we draw out what communities can change now: fuel management, early detection tech, interagency alert speed, and red-flag public education that meets people where they are.
Then we head to a fragile ceasefire and a clock that doesn’t stop for speeches. Drones must fall silent, troops must pull back, hostages and detainees must move, and aid must flow. We parse the U.S. role in an international stabilization force, the promises about reconstruction, and the many unanswered questions that could upend “lasting peace.” Finally, we turn the lens on institutions at home—how justice, politics, and media sometimes blur—and why trust depends on disclosure, distance, and consequences that stick.
If this conversation sharpened your lens on power and responsibility, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review telling us which moment changed your mind. Your take might make the next episode.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_16 (00:00):
Our next question is about the temperature and tone
of political speech.
The first example has beenshaping the race for governor
and attorney general for thepast week.
You both will have a chance forrebuttal.
Democratic Attorney Generalnominee Jay Jones admits he sent
text messages to a colleaguereferencing former Republican
House Speaker Todd Gilbert.
(00:21):
Here's what he wrote.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Jones.
Three people, two bullets.
Gilbert, Hitler, Pol Pot.
Gilbert gets two bullets to thehead.
Spoiler, put Gilbert in the crewwith the two worst people you
know, and he receives bothbullets every time.
Colleague.
Jones.
L-O-L OK OK.
I mean, do I think Todd andJennifer are evil and that
(00:46):
they're breeding littlefascists?
Yes.
Colleague, you were talkingabout hoping Jennifer Gilbert's
children would die.
Jones, yes, I've told you thisbefore.
Only when people feel painpersonally do they move on
policy.
SPEAKER_16 (01:01):
Jay Jones has apologized and says he takes
full responsibility for thosemessages.
Ms.
Spamberger, you have called thecomments disgusting and said you
condemn violence.
The question for you tonight is: were you aware of these messages (01:12):
undefined
before they were releasedpublicly?
And will you continue to endorseJay Jones as the next Attorney
General of Virginia?
You have 60 seconds.
SPEAKER_15 (01:24):
The comments that Jay Jones made are absolutely
abhorrent.
I denounce them when I learnedof them, and I will denounce
them every opportunity I get.
As a mother, as a publicservant, as a candidate for
governor, I denounce them.
And it is important thatcandidates always denounce
(01:45):
violence on no matter which sideof the aisle.
Violence, violent rhetoric, weshould always be focused and
forceful in our denouncement.
And importantly, please myopponent unfortunately only
denounces violence when her sideis the target.
Don't highlight that.
Into the future, she willendeavor to denounce violent
(02:06):
rhetoric and violence no matterwho the victim.
And tonight, Lieutenant GovernorEarl Sears, I will say you
routinely referred to me as EarlSears.
(02:30):
Ms.
Earl Sears.
So as we move forward, we mustcontinue to set a good example
for all of our children.
SPEAKER_16 (02:41):
Thank you, Miss Bamberger.
I just I didn't hear an answerthere on the endorsement issue,
so I want to just make sure.
Will you continue to endorse JayJones to be the next Attorney
General of Virginia?
And were you aware of these textmessages before they released?
You have 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_15 (03:10):
You do imagine.
It denounces Merlin.
Importantly, um, at this point,as we move forward, the voters
now have this information,information that was with
withheld for them.
You're running presumably forpermanent affairs reasons.
(03:31):
Uh but the voters now have theinformation, and it is up to
voters uh to make an individualchoice based on this
information.
unknown (03:39):
Ms.
SPEAKER_16 (03:39):
Member, I understand what you're saying about the
voters, but for you yourself, doyou still continue to endorse
Jay Jones?
15 seconds.
Yes or no?
SPEAKER_15 (03:47):
I we are all running our individual races.
I believe my opponent has saidthat about her lieutenant
governor nominee.
And it is upstairs every personto make their own decision.
I am running my race to serveVirginia, and that is what I
intend to do.
SPEAKER_16 (04:03):
Thank you, Ms.
Spamberger.
Uh we just want to clarify, youknow, what you're saying is that
as of now you still endorse JayJones as Attorney General.
SPEAKER_15 (04:13):
I'm saying as of now, it's up to every voter to
make their own individualdecision.
I am running for governor.
I am accountable for the wordsthat I say for the acts that I
take for the policies that Ihave put out.
Thank you.
I am responsible for thepolicies I put out and the work
I will endeavor to do tirelesslyfor the people Virginia.
SPEAKER_16 (04:35):
Thank you, Miss Spamberger.
Miss Earl Sears, before we getto rebuttals, because we will
get to rebuttals, we have aquestion for you.
While there is no equivalency,this next example does speak to
the divided nature of ourcountry.
During the Charlie Kirkmemorial, President Trump said,
quote, I hate my opponent and Idon't want the best for them.
(04:56):
Is there a place for that kindof political speech?
You have 60 seconds.
SPEAKER_08 (05:00):
Well, I think as everybody knows, I'm a
Christian.
I'm a Christian before I'm aRepublican, and I'm required to
forgive people.
And it's hard sometimes whensomebody has abused you, et
cetera, but it's something youmust do because not to forgive
is almost like as someone saidyou drink poison thinking that
it's going to affect the otherperson.
And I want to live a decentlife, and I I don't want to have
(05:23):
not have peace in my life.
And so I, as I've said before, Iwould not say that.
So that's why I'm wondering whymy opponent won't say, beyond
its abhorrent and disgusting,why she won't say it is not
okay, and that he must leave therace because Jay Jones advocated
(05:47):
the murder, Abigail.
The murder of a man, a formerspeaker, as well as his children
who were two years, two and fiveyears old.
You have little girls.
What would it take him pullingthe trigger?
Is that what would do it?
And then you would say he needsto get out of the race, Abigail?
You have nothing to say?
(06:09):
Abigail.
What if he said it about yourtwo children, your three
children?
Is that when you would say heshould get out of the race,
Abigail?
SPEAKER_16 (06:20):
You're running to be governor, Miss Earl Sears.
I know you're saying that youwould not personally say this,
but do you think still thatthere is that place for that
kind of rhetoric?
The example that we gave, uheven coming from others, you
have 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_08 (06:34):
So I'm responsible for my behavior and what I've
said, I've just said, I wouldn'tsay that.
I would not speak that way.
Look, I'm from a third worldcountry.
I was born in Jamaica, and whenI was 10 years old, I saw that
kind of political violence,which is why I'm asking my
opponent to please ask him toget out of the race, have some
(06:55):
political courage.
What you have done is you aretaking political calculations
about your future as governor.
Well, as governor, you have tomake hard choices, and that
means telling Jay Jones to leavethe race.
I have seen what it means whenpeople are sh are are shot in
the streets and thrown in theback of cars just for political
(07:17):
purposes.
I don't want to see that inAmerica.
America must never be thatplace, and Abigail needs to say
something.
SPEAKER_12 (07:24):
Ladies and gentlemen, let's get into it.
Virginia.
And if you thought you weretuning in for Lincoln Douglas,
you got something closer to aheavyweight brawl in Norfolk.
Now, for those who missed it,here's the scene Abigail
Sponberger, Democrat, formerCongresswoman, former CIA case
(07:45):
officer Walkson leading thepolls.
She's cool, disciplined, and onpaper pretty hard to rattle.
On the other side, Winsome EarlSears, Republican Lieutenant
Governor, Marine Veteran,Jamaican immigrant gun rights
champion, you name it.
Earl Sears is down in the polls,but she came to Norfolk like a
woman who understood she had oneshot left.
And trust me, she fired everyround in the chamber.
But hanging over this debatelike a thundercloud was not
(08:06):
Spanberger or Sears, it was JayJones, the Democratic nominee
for attorney general.
His text messages from 2022leaked, and in them he talked
about shooting then HouseSpeaker Todd Gilbert.
Let me pause there.
Because in a country alreadydrowning in political violence,
school shootings, assassinationattempts, we have a man running
for top prosecutors talkingabout or threatening shooting a
political opponent.
That's not locker room talk.
(08:28):
That's not boys being boys.
That's disqualifying.
That's a breach of trust withthe people of Virginia.
And Spamberger knew she had toanswer for it.
And she tried.
Over and over, she called hiswords abhorrent.
She denounced them as a mother,as a public servant, as a
candidate for governor.
But when Prestwin asked directlyif Jay Jones should step aside,
(08:49):
she froze, she hunted.
She said, That's up to thevoters.
Now let me tell you what thatreally means.
She doesn't want to split herparty, she doesn't want to
alienate her base, and shedoesn't want to hand her
opponent the soundbite ofSpanberger abandons her own
attorney general nominee.
So she did the politiciansshuffle, condemn the act, but
refuse the consequence.
That was her strategy.
Play defense, stay calm, don'tgive away the crown.
(09:11):
But her old sears.
She smelled blood.
And she went for the jugular.
And from the opening moment, shewas in Spanberger's face,
interrupting her answers,accusing her of lying.
At one point, she literallyshouted as line number twelve,
like she was keeping score on achalkboard.
She even bulldozed intoSpanberger's closing remarks,
which, in the polite world ofdebate etiquette, is about as
(09:34):
disrespectful as spitting insomebody's sweet tea.
She wasn't there to be polite.
She was there to make noise.
She was there to dominate andsay what you will about her
approach at work in the sensethat nobody watching that debate
is going to forget herperformance.
But here's the thing (09:47):
what looked like strength to some
looked like chaos to others.
You see, Spamberger kept hercool.
She didn't flinch.
She stared straight ahead whileSears was practically breathing
fire.
And depending on where you sitpolitically, that either makes
Spamurger look presidential, orit either makes Earl Sears look
like a fighter or like she'sunhinged.
(10:07):
Now, let's hit the issues.
Because while the Jones scandalhung over everything, the real
fireworks were the culture wars,abortion, transgender rights,
parents and schools.
On abortion, Earl Sears paintedSpanberger as an extremist said
she supported abortion up to theminute before birth, conjuring
that image of a baby on a table.
Now, that's not Spamberger'sposition.
(10:28):
She said she supports Roe v.
Wade.
But the rhetorical trick workedbecause it framed her as radical
in the minds of anyone whodoesn't dig deeper.
On transgender issues inschools, Spanberger gave a
middle-of-the-road answer-leavedecisions to parents, teachers,
administrators.
Earl Sears hit her back with aYunkin playbook, casting herself
as the warrior for protectingour daughters.
That's been a winning messagefor Virginia Republicans before,
(10:49):
so you can see why she leaned onit.
So again, it wasn't about policyprecision, it was about
emotional impact.
Earl Sears went for the gut.
Spanberger stuck with the hit.
Now, the moderators, God blessthem, they spent half the night
trying to keep order.
They literally had tointerruptions.
Ms.
Earl Sears, please stop talkingover her.
It was like babysitting twosiblings fighting over the Xbox
(11:10):
controller.
The whole thing felt less like adebate and more like
Thanksgiving dinner after thethird glass of wine.
But here's the million-dollarquestion.
Does any of this matter?
Spamberger is in the polls 51 to44.
That's a comfortable lead in astate that's been trending the
glue.
And early voting startedSeptember 19th.
That means a whole lot ofVirginians already nailed in
(11:30):
their ballots.
Which means Earl Sears may havebeen playing to an audience that
already left the theater.
But maybe that wasn't the point.
Maybe she wasn't trying to winthe undecided suburban mom in
Fairfax.
Maybe she was trying to firereprobate people who might have
stayed home otherwise.
Maybe she was trying to say, I'mthe fighter.
I won't back down.
I won't play by the rules of thepolite establishment.
(11:51):
And in that sense mission,here's where I land on it,
Abigail Spanberger acted like afriend.
Safe, controlled, defensive.
Winston Moral Sears acted likethe underdog.
Loud, aggressive, risk-taking.
And you know what?
Both of them were right in theirown way.
Spanberger's job was to not losethe race.
(12:12):
Sears' job was to shake it up.
They each played their role.
But the voters of Virginia,they've got to decide do they
want calm competence or fierydisruption?
Do they want something whoshrugs off scandal with a steady
hand or someone who tries totear the house down brick by
brick?
Because that's what this debatereally revealed.
It wasn't about policy detail.
It was about tone.
It was about who you wantanswering the phone at 3 a.m.
(12:33):
The unflappable ex CIA officeror the no-nonsense Marine
veteran who will yell into thereceiver.
And let me tell you, this racemay already be baked in, but
don't underestimate the power ofone night like this.
Because politics isn't justmath.
It's mood.
And moods can shift.
Sometimes all it takes is onefiery performance, one viral
clip, one moment that breaksthrough.
But if I'm a betting man, Istill say the math favors
(12:53):
Baumberger.
She came in with the lead, sheleft with the lead, and Virginia
doesn't flip on vibes alone.
But the story of last night isthat when some Earl Seers
refused to go quietly, she threweverything she had into that
hour.
And even if she doesn't win thiselection, she's already secured
her reputation as someone youdon't ignore.
So here's a lesson.
In politics, sometimes you winby putting the steady hand on
the wheel.
And sometimes you win bygrabbing the wheel and jerking
(13:16):
it to the side.
Virginia saw both strategieslast night.
Now, the question is, which onedo they trust to drive the bus?
We'll find out in November.
Until then, buckle up.
Because if that debate was anypreview, Virginia's politics
aren't calming down anytimesoon.
SPEAKER_10 (13:31):
Turning now to the Pacific Palisades fire.
So obviously devastating firethat happened in January.
We covered uh quite a bit of ithere.
It was horrible.
People lost their lives, justbillions of dollars in property
damage, and so much just aboutFEMA and just the general
response to that and whetherpeople would be able to rebuild.
We are now learning uh theDepartment of Justice is
alleging that it was actually anintentional act of arson and one
(13:54):
that was deeply planned usingapparently chat GPT style images
with some evidence that they'reable to show you of an Uber
driver who allegedly took partin this.
Let's take a listen to what theysay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
The Palisades fire reported on January 7th was
caused by an intentionally setfire near a viewpoint along the
Tumesco Ridge Trail into PegnaState Park on January 1st.
The fire was a holdover fire,meaning it was deeply seeded in
dense vegetation and roots andcontinued to burn undetected
(14:27):
until catastrophic weatherensued, resulting in the
Palisades fire.
SPEAKER_10 (14:32):
So this is including the images.
Let's put this up here, guys, onthe screen.
Uh, this is from the acting U.S.
attorney.
He says, today we are announcingthe arrest of 29-year-old
Jonathan Rindernecht on acriminal complaint, charging him
with maliciously starting whatbecame the Palisades fire in
January.
The complaint alleges thatRinderknecht started a fire in
the Pacific Palisades on NewYear's Day, a blaze that
(14:52):
eventually turned into one ofthe most destructive fires in
Los Angeles history, causingdeath and widespread
destruction.
Among the evidence that wascollected from his digital
devices was an image that hegenerated on Chat GPT depicting
a burning city.
While he cannot undo the damageand destruction that was done,
we hope his arrest and thecharges against him bring some
measure of justice to thevictims of this horrible
(15:13):
tragedy.
His initial appearance isscheduled uh uh uh in the U.S.
District Court in Orlando, whereapparently he was.
So some of the details, D3,please, that we can put and
share with all of you, like Isaid, is working as an Uber
driver and was, quote, obsessedwith images of fire, uh, is how
they characterize it.
And so I guess this is like athis is like a thing.
(15:35):
They call them firebugs.
Pyromaniacs.
Yeah, pyromaniacs.
They say he's accused ofmaliciously sparking the brush
fire January 1st.
The fire was then knocked downby the LA uh LA Fire Department,
but obviously continued tosmolder before high winds and
rekindled it.
They said it left 12 peopledead, 7,000 homes,$150 billion
(15:55):
in property damage.
They say he lived in the area atsome point, quote, allegedly
ignited the flames near apopular hiking trail at about
midnight time on New Year's Day,just moments after dropping Uber
passengers off nearby.
They later said that he, quote,appeared agitated and angry
after arriving at the hikingtrail.
He allegedly filmed the scene onhis phone and listened to a rap
(16:20):
song by a French artist whosemusic video features him setting
a series of fires.
The Google record showed that hewas born in France.
Apparently, he listened to thatsong multiple times in the music
video, four times leading up tothe day of the fire, and it
translated the lyrics from thatsong that something says, like,
daily life is killing me.
I feel like I'm nowhere, there'stoo much bitterness in my head.
(16:42):
I think about the mistakes thatwe made.
And they say at another point inthe music video, it actually
shows a bearing bare burningbarrel outside of a housing
project that eventually becomesa huge inferno.
They say he watched his fireburn for a minute before fleeing
down the trail, where he made athree-minute video recording of
himself attempting to call 911to report the blaze as he was on
(17:05):
the phone to dispatchers.
He typed, Are you at fault if afire is lit because of your
cigarettes?
into Chat GPT, which was alsofeatured apparently in the
screen recording that he wastrying to make there.
So creating an alibi, I think,where he was like, I'm calling
911, and am I at fault for itbecause it was a cigarette, like
trying to play it off as acigarette?
We're not exactly sure.
(17:25):
He then said they drove awayfrom the scene, turned around to
follow the responding firetrucks back to the scene, where
he watched and recorded videosas the crew battled the inferno.
And eventually all of this comesto light now, after I guess
prosecutors were able to zero inwith the Uber message, with the
911 records, the arsoninvestigation.
(17:48):
I mean, it's totally crazy.
I mean, killed so many people,caused so much damage.
Uh, and I I genuinely was notaware that this was a thing,
that there are just freaks outthere who like to set fires.
And like creating imagesyesterday.
I never even heard of it.
SPEAKER_09 (18:01):
So most arson is not set by pyromaniacs.
It's like people who are, youknow, looking for insurance
funds or for revenge orwhatever.
But this certainly bears thehallmark of someone who's like
obsessed with fire.
And there's even people who getlike sexual gratification from
fire, watching fire.
And uh, like I don't know if heis one of those people, but it
(18:22):
certainly bears the hallmarks ofsomeone who has like a twisted
obsession with fire, listeningto this video, uh, this music
video, watching it over andover.
He was watching other videosabout fires, even him like
recording himself with the firein the, you know, in the
background and um generatingthese images on Chat GPT, et
cetera.
And we also should say, I mean,based listen, we're I'm reading
(18:45):
a lot into like the lyrics ofthe song that talk about oh my
god, the game list, et cetera.
But you know, it could be kindof like have some similarities
to some of the nihilist killingsthat we've talked about.
And people did get killed here,by the way.
12 people were dead as a resultof these blaze blazes and
thousands of homes destroyed.
Um California was, I don't knowif you guys remember, like it
(19:08):
was horrible.
Um, California was a tinder box,and and it wasn't, it was this
fire was the largest one.
There were others burning aswell.
Um, you had the Santa Ana windsthat were extraordinary, 80
miles per hour that made thisthing spread just so rapidly and
like crazy.
Absolutely sick and horrificthing to have done.
(19:28):
And it it really was kind oflike a perfect so the vegetation
was very dry as well.
I mean, it was just like aperfect storm for this to end up
being one of the worst anddeadliest blazes in California
history.
SPEAKER_10 (19:38):
Yeah, that's right.
It was it was really awful.
We just wanted to make sure wegave everybody an update just
because I mean there's nothingreally political, I guess, to
say about it.
We don't know very much uhexactly.
SPEAKER_09 (19:48):
Everybody immediately ran into what's his
social media and who's in theNew York Post says he was a
Biden speaker.
He gave he gave$2 to Joe Biden.
That's it.
Yeah, he gave$2,$1, and thenanother$1 on another date.
That's it.
SPEAKER_10 (20:00):
Well, for full transparency to the audience, I
have a parlay bet with our uhproducer Mac on whether this
gentleman and Mark Sanchez uhboth had marijuana involved in
the case.
So looking forward to thetoxicology report on both of
those cases.
And he does owe me 50 bucks uhif it does come to pass.
So we'll see.
How do that's putting him in?
What do you mean?
It'll come out in the criminalcase.
(20:21):
He said cigarettes there, right?
You think it's a real cigaretteor a marijuana cigarette?
I'm just we'll just wait.
We'll wait and see.
Uh I'll I'll let you be the uh Iwill let you be the person who
uh looks and can validate thedebt.
Or the debt.
SPEAKER_09 (20:32):
I'll be the judge.
SPEAKER_10 (20:33):
And for Mark Sanchez, we're calling for a
full release of the toxicologyreport.
Yeah.
Full, full scale release inorder to settle this uh wager
between two gentlemen here.
SPEAKER_09 (20:43):
Another thing he came back he did, which um added
to the uh him being a suspect,was he came back to watch the
fight the blaze also.
SPEAKER_10 (20:52):
So sometimes I just get creeped out that people like
this are alive.
And I think that is a in oursociety.
SPEAKER_09 (20:59):
Very natural response.
SPEAKER_10 (21:01):
Hey, if you like that video, hit the like button
or leave a comment below.
It really helps get the show tomore people.
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SPEAKER_10 (21:13):
That's right.
Get the full show, help supportthe future of independent media
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SPEAKER_11 (21:18):
So, of course, guys, um, thank the I I I've probably
been beating a drum on thispoint.
I d I do not, even though I doconsume uh legacy media, I am a
big supporter of what is roughlyknown as independent media.
(21:38):
And so I am a supporter ofBreaking Points, with the host
uh Crystal Sager and uh and uhCrystal Ball.
Uh Ryan Grimm as well does GreatRoker there, as well as uh
Emily, with their um show thatthey called Counterpoints, which
(22:00):
is in the Breaking PointsNetwork.
I think they have fair andbalanced discussions, very
vigorous uh in in theirreporting and um not partisan,
not tribal.
They do the left, right, center.
Uh they host um debates uh ondifferent topics where they sit
back and play moderators, andsometimes they do topics where
(22:22):
they will be debatingthemselves.
And if you have uh at least tendollars a month, you can get a
membership at Breaking Pointsfor$10 a month and get their
premium content.
And I have been supporting themsince they launched uh uh their
channel a few years back, and Ihave not regretted it.
(22:43):
So um uh you can uh uh if youcan spare the ten dollars a
month, uh please, please umsupport uh breaking points at um
at um at Crystal and Sagar.
And um that I'll I'll I'll justlet the comments on the
(23:03):
Palisades thing stay as they areuntil I come up with a succinct
and full monologue about it andmore facts come out.
SPEAKER_07 (23:12):
Israeli airstrikes for the first time in Let's
President Trump promises a dealhe brokered will mean lasting
peace.
The next 72 hours are key.
Why are so many Palestinianskepticals?
SPEAKER_03 (23:19):
I'm Leila Falden, that's A.
Martinez, and this is a firstfrom NPR News.
President Trump is planning tohead to Egypt this weekend, so
he'll be there as Israel andHamas implement the first part
of the plan.
SPEAKER_07 (23:28):
It's really peace in the Middle East.
SPEAKER_03 (23:30):
No deal is still fragile, and there are also
questions of what's next and whya small group of U.S.
troops are part of thatequation.
SPEAKER_07 (23:35):
Plus, New York Attorney General James was
indicted on bank fraud and falsestatement charges.
Trump has publicly demanded hisAttorney General prosecute James
and other perceived politicalfoes.
Now the Justice Department isdoing just that.
See what else?
We've got all the news you needto start today.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
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SPEAKER_07 (24:29):
For the first time in seven months, people in Gaza
woke up with no Israeliairstrikes overhead.
SPEAKER_03 (24:33):
Today is supposed to mark the start of the first
phase of what President Trumpsays will be a strong and
lasting peace.
It comes after Israel'sgovernment approved Trump's plan
for a hostage exchange deal.
SPEAKER_07 (24:41):
We're joined by MPR International Correspondent Type
Batrawi in Dubai to explainwhat's happening.
So tell us uh what the situationnow is in Gaza with a ceasefire.
SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
Well, this morning, a people in Gaza were actually
still being fired on by Israelitroops when they tried to walk
along a main road leading fromthe south of Gaza to Gaza City
and the north.
Hundreds of thousands of peoplehave been displaced in recent
weeks from that city.
But this is what it also soundedlike in the center of Gaza City
for the few people who are stillthere.
So what you're hearing there isthe sound of an Israeli drone
buzzing overhead.
And what that means is Hamez hasnot yet begun retrieving
hostages to release them.
(25:08):
It won't do that until thedrones stop flying.
And the drones are supposed tostop when Israel's military
completes a withdrawal from deepinside Gaza to a holding line
where they would still controlabout half of the Gaza Strip.
Now, it was really defenseofficials told MPR on condition
of anonymity in order to speakabout the operations in Gaza,
but the army had started to pullback to that agreed upon line in
Gaza, and that it would announcetoday it has completed that
initial pullback.
But here's the crucial part.
The clock starts ticking on thisdeal from that moment.
(25:30):
Hamez has just 72 hours torelease the 20 hostages of holes
that are believed to still bealive and any bodies in their
possession, but there are othersthey will need more time to
find.
SPEAKER_07 (25:42):
Tell us um what you know about the details of the
deal that was signed last night.
SPEAKER_04 (25:46):
Well, there is skepticism because the two
previous US backed ceasefiredeals in which Hamez released
hostages were broken, and we sawIsrael return to war.
But Trump says this deal isabout more than Gaza.
He says it's about Midi's peace,and he has given his personal
guarantees to Egyptian, Turkish,and Kotari mediators and Hamas
that the release of all theIsraeli hostages the group holds
will coincide with an end to thewar.
Now, I guess I saw a copy of thefirst page of this deal that was
signed in Egypt last night.
Mediators and Hamas confirmed toenter the document, which is
(26:07):
circulating online, is legit.
It refers to this first phase ofthe deal, which is focused on
releasing hostages.
But this document says the warwill immediately end upon
approval by Israel's government,which we know the cabinet did
vote on last night and approve,in the presence of White House
envoy Steve Whitkov andPresident Trump Seminar Kushner.
But again, this document onlylays out details of the first
phase of the ceasefire and notwhat comes next.
And that's where there's still alot of skepticism and details
that need to be worked out.
SPEAKER_07 (26:28):
So lots of uncertainty over the next uh 72
hours.
Uh, what are you looking to see?
SPEAKER_04 (26:31):
Yeah, it's a very critical next 72 hours.
So beyond the release of Israelihostages and Palestinian
detainees and prisoners, we'realso looking to see whether
Egypt's border with Gaza opensfor having machinery to enter.
That is going to be needed forhow it's retrieved some of the
bodies of hostages that holdsthat that are buried, I believe,
in different parts of Gaza.
It's also needed to recoverPalestinians from under the role
of Israeli airstrikes, includingone last night just before this
deal was signed that struck aresidential building on Gaza
City.
At least 40 people are missingunderall of the Israeli
airstrike rescue crews say.
(26:52):
Yes, sir, there's also anIsraeli soldier killed in North
Gaza.
So we're looking to see now.
As one Israel will allowhundreds of trucks of UN agent
to Gaza to reverse severemalentritchment and starvation.
That could happen as early thisMonday.
Also, President Trump isexpected to visit Egypt and
Israel on Sunday, and the firsthostages and prisoners could be
released by Monday.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_07 (27:09):
The U.S.
has played a big role in keepingthe ceasefire together as 200
American troops are going to theleast to oversee the
implementation of the deal.
President Trump is going toEgypt to cement the deal he
brokered between Israel andHamas, as they're said to carry
out the first part of theagreement.
SPEAKER_03 (27:20):
I think it's going to be a lasting peace,
hopefully, an everlasting peace.
But senior White House officialsare advising that the deal is
still fragile, and there arestill parts of the plan that
could go wrong.
SPEAKER_07 (27:28):
MPR White House correspondent Debat Chabron
joins us now.
A lot of elements of this planare still being sorted through
our officials are worried about.
SPEAKER_14 (27:33):
Well, for one guy, senior White House officials
said yesterday on a call withreporters that there's still a
lot of involvement and work todo to make sure there aren't
misunderstandings between thetwo sides.
They said this is a verydelicate time.
There's a short window herewhere Israeli troops retreat
from parts of Gaza, the hostagerelease and the Palestinian
prisoner release is supposed totake place.
But the even bigger question iswhat happens next and what is
the U.S.
involvement going to look like?
And like you mentioned, theseofficials last night said that
the U.S.
(27:53):
is sending about 200 troops tothe region.
They're going to be part ofwhat's called an ISF or an
international stabilizationforce, which was created in part
of Trump's peace plan.
Claire is oversight to make surethat there aren't any violations
of the agreements, according toWhite House officials, and
they'll be working alongsidewith Egyptian forces as well as
forces from Qatar and Turkey andthe UAE and keeping those
governments as well as theIsraeli government informed
about what they're seeing.
SPEAKER_07 (28:13):
Will any of those U.S.
troops go to Gaza?
SPEAKER_14 (28:15):
While officials said the U.S.
forces are not intended to gointo Gaza, but they weren't at
this point specific about wheretroops would be stationed.
That plan is still beingdeveloped.
SPEAKER_07 (28:22):
Okay, so meantime, what has the president been
saying about the room?
SPEAKER_14 (28:24):
Well, the president's been pretty elated
about all of this.
He held a cabinet meetingyesterday and talked at length
about getting the steel done andrepeatedly said that this steal
meant peace in the region.
SPEAKER_06 (28:36):
But it's uh it's like peace in the Middle East.
SPEAKER_14 (28:38):
And speaking of Trump's involvement, I mean my
officials said he was involvedat many points in the
negotiations, that he would evencall it himself during the talks
to talk with some of theinterlocutors.
I will say though that there aresome elements of this agreement
that are still a little bitunclear.
Um yesterday, for example, areporter asked, what would
happen if Hamas didn't returnall the hostages?
Right now there are believed tobe 40 hostages and 20 are
believed to be alive.
But Trump said some of thebodies would be hard to find,
but quote, we're going to do thebest we can, and couldn't really
(29:01):
get into what the consequencesof what might happen.
Uh, the other thing that Trumpis still a little bit unclear on
is how Gaza will be rebuilt.
Uh, he said that wealthy Arabnations would be part of the
rebuilding process, but WhiteHouse officials said yesterday
that no financial commitmentshave been made yet from those
nations.
SPEAKER_07 (29:13):
Okay, we mentioned earlier that the president plans
to travel to the region,although we know about those
plans.
SPEAKER_14 (29:16):
Yeah, so Trump said that he's trying to leave on
Sunday to travel to the region.
It's not exactly clear yet wherehe's going, but he said he'd
most likely be in Egypt wherethose negotiations are taking
place.
And he was also invited byIsraeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Nanyahu to address Israel'sparliament to connect it.
And Trump said he hopes to bethere when the hostages are
released, which is potentiallyMonday or Tuesday.
So still firming up some of thedetails of where and when this
trip takes place, but thepresence of President Trump on
the ground speaks to how much ofa heavy hand he's had in this
(29:37):
process.
SPEAKER_07 (29:45):
The Justice Department followed President
Trump's public calls and broughtcharges against his top rivals.
SPEAKER_03 (29:49):
Yeah, New York Attorney General Letitia James
was indicted on bank fraud andfalse statement charges.
This comes after the same officeindicted former FBI Director
James Comey.
President Trump replaced the topfederal prosecutor there with
one of his former.
Lawyers, not the person whosecured this indictment.
SPEAKER_07 (30:02):
MPR Justice Correspondent Ryan Lucas joins
now runs what more details ofthe charges against James, the
prosecutor to arrangement.
SPEAKER_06 (30:06):
He's on the just meant to two charges here, one
kind of bank fraud, one kind offalse statements to a financial
institution.
The indictment alleges thatJames bought a house in 2020 in
North Virginia.
Uh the prosecutor said shefalsely claimed it as a second
residence to get better terms onher mortgage.
Uh, an indictment says withthose more favorable terms, she
would have said the total ofalmost$19,000 over the life of
the Lord.
SPEAKER_07 (30:22):
Now, the indictment was called up by a grand jury in
the Eastern District ofVirginia.
That's the same place where thewar of the other colours had
died just a few weeks ago.
SPEAKER_06 (30:27):
That's right.
And there's been a huge amountof turmoil in the U.S.
Attorney's office there in thepast few weeks because of the
Comey case in this case againstJames.
Uh the career dealing attorneywho had been uh the top
prosecutor there basicallyincluded after lengthy
investigations of the evidencein the separate cases against
Comey and Jones uh with twoindifferent charges, but what
else didn't like that theypushed the prosecutor out?
And it's twice President Trumpinstalled uh Lindsay Halligan,
an insurance lawyer who onceserved as Trump's personal
attorney, but she has noprosecutorial experience.
These later Halligan secured uhthe indictment against Comey,
(30:49):
and now if you saw him, shepresented the case yesterday
against James uh to Brand Jury.
Now, these two indictmentsagainst the James and James
Comey came after President Trumppublicly called on the Justice
Department to prosecute them,and that has a lot of bringing
that Trump is using the JusticeDepartment, weaponizing the
department's proceedingpolitical evidence.
Now, which is why people mightknow who James Comey is, but
maybe not the Tuscan Trump asmuch.
So, what is the Trump issue withthe job?
So when James campaigns becomeNew York's attorney general, she
vowed to investigate Trump.
(31:10):
Once she was in office, shedidn't exactly ultimately Trump
and his company for inflatingthe value of some of her assets.
She won that case in court of amassive$450 million judgment,
although that fundamentalpenalty was not what it costs
them on appeal.
But Trump is reputedly left outat her during the presidential
campaign last year, for example,he said that she should be
arrested and punished.
And then in a social media postlast month, Trump urged the
attorney general Pan Bonnie togo after James and other
political folks saying that theywere guilty and that justice
must be served.
(31:30):
How does James then responsible?
She put out a video on socialmedia that's called the
continuation of uh Trump'sreposition with justice system,
justice of this.
SPEAKER_13 (31:36):
These targets are baseless.
And the president's own publicstatements make clear.
His only goal is politicalretribution and then we cost.
SPEAKER_06 (31:43):
James said she's being targeted because she did
her job as New York's stateattorney general.
She said she stands behind heroffice's investigation in the
civil frauds against Trump, andshe said she's not right in the
future to continue to do herjob.
Now that's MPR JusticeCorrespondent Ryan Trump.
SPEAKER_07 (31:56):
And that's the first or Friday, October 10th, I mean,
Tina.
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
And I'm Lila Falcon, but Trump campaigned on a
promise of mass deportation.
And since the office in January,I think we carried out some
dramatic and shocking rights totry to become things that just
didn't win.
SPEAKER_07 (32:08):
Unlike anything else in the 20 years that I've been
doing this work.
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SPEAKER_12 (33:18):
David From Douglas Murray leaked emails.
The blurring line betweenjournalism and power by Darrell
McClain introduction.
When the fourth estate becomesthe fifth column, journalists
are meant to interrogate power,not script its lines.
Yet, the leaked emails fromDavid Fromm and Douglas Murray,
obtained from the inbox offormer Israeli Ambassador Ron
Prosser, present a griminversion of that ideal.
What emerges is not merely acase of professional overreach,
(33:40):
but an anatomy of moralcollapse, how pundits and
producers once claiming themantle of objectivity blurred
themselves into advocacy for astate's war campaign.
In 2014, while Gaza burned andcivilians perished under
Israel's military assault, twoprominent Western commentators,
David Frum, a senior editor ofThe Atlantic, and Douglas
Murray, an associate editor atThe Spectator, were privately
(34:00):
offering their pens to theIsraeli government.
The correspondence, revealed bydrop site news reporters Ryan
Grimm and Murtaza Hussein,unspools a story of
collaboration, complicity, andquiet hypocrisy within the
Western media establishment.
The context.
2014's Gaza War and thepropaganda machine between July
and August 2014, Israel'sbombardment of Gaza killed over
(34:21):
two, 200 Palestinians, amongthem 551 children, and displaced
tens of thousands.
In the Crucible, Israel'sdiplomats faced mounting
criticism at the United Nationsfor alleged war crimes.
Behind the scenes, however, adifferent kind of battle was
underway, a media war topreserve Israel's image in
Western capitals.
The leaked correspondencebetween Ambassador Ron Proster
and a network of journalists andproducers shows the machinery of
(34:42):
that image making at work.
Speechwriting assistance fromFromm and Murray public
relations coordination withWestern news outlets, private
fundraising for the Iron DomeMissile System, led in part by
former CNN producer Pamela Grossthe results.
A convergence of journalism andpropaganda that, if left
unexamined, corrodes the verynotion of independent media.
David Frum's double role, editorby day, ghostwriter by night,
(35:03):
the speech that should neverhave been written in July 2014.
The Atlantic's David Frum, thenknown for his anti-Trump
punditry and Boucheraneoconservative credentials,
sent Ambassador Prosser an emailtitled an earlier draft of that
speech I sent you.
The document, according toDropsite's report, was a full
speech intended for Prosser's UNaddress, co-written with Seth
Mandel of Commentary Magazine.
The draft invoked the freeworld's defeat of the Nazi war
(35:24):
machine painting Israel'sbombardment of Gaza as a morph
stand against barbarism, a lineeerily reminiscent of Cold War
rhetoric.
It pleaded with Americans not togrow war weary, warning that to
doubt Israel was to betray thelegacy of Truman in NATO.
From wasn't just ghostwritingfor a diplomat, he was crafting
the moral architecture thatwould justify civilian suffering
under the banner of freedom.
The ethical quagmire days later,Frum emailed Prosser again, this
(35:48):
time assuming a different role.
Can I interview you for a shortprofile in the Atlantic?
He asked, proposing to writeabout Prosser's life as Israel's
ambassador.
Two months later, the Atlanticpublished the resulting piece,
Israel's Man at the UnitedNations, portraying Prosser as a
valiant defender against unjustcriticism.
What the readers didn't know,the journalist profiling the
ambassador had also written histalking points.
This dual role, both chroniclerand architect, shatters the wall
(36:11):
that's supposed to separatereporter from subject.
It isn't mere bias, it'sinfiltration.
When journalism becomesindistinguishable from PR,
public trust becomes collateraldamage.
Douglas Murray's courtship ofpower, the speech that flattered
a state on July 31st, 2014,British writer Douglas Murray
emailed Prosser Excellent tospeak earlier.
I am pasting in here my firstdraft ideas.
His attached text was apolished, rhetorical performance
(36:32):
urging defiance againstoutrageous and racist efforts to
boycott Israeli products andderiding European Muslims in
language that fused culturalchauvinism with wartime fervor.
Murray assured Prosser he'd giveall the time I can to help him
get it right.
It's not the sentence of adetached journalist, it's the
language of a courtier eager forproximity to power.
Fundraising for the war effortmonths later, Murray wrote
again, boasting that he'd helpraise over one million pounds
(36:55):
for the Association for theWell-being of Israeli soldiers.
His joy was unrestrained.
The soldiers were superb.
Prosser replied withappreciation, calling his
efforts wonderful work.
That exchange erases anyplausible pretense of
journalistic distance.
Murray wasn't reporting onIsrael's military, he was
bankrolling it.
When the exact figure laterdebated the humanitarian crisis
in Gaza on public platforms,wearing a flat jacket label
(37:18):
press, he omitted that he'd oncewritten speeches and raised
money for the same army he wascovering.
The problem isn't ideology, it'sundisclosed allegiance.
Pamela Gross, the producer whocrossed the line from CNN to
Iron Dome if Rum and Murray'scomplicity was rhetorical,
Pamela Gross's was financial.
Then, an editorial producer forCNN, she emailed Prosser in July
2014, clearly, Iron Dome isdoing the trick in saving lives.
(37:39):
Please, dear friend, let's getit finished.
Her note wasn't a privateopinion, it was the opening move
of a fundraising effort.
I need to know how much moneythey still need to finish the
dome, she wrote, seeking contactwith the Israeli Ministry of
Foreign Affairs to channel fundsdirectly.
Prosser's reply was effusive.
The amazing work you are doingin fundraising for Iron Dome has
the most vital value to thepeople of Israel.
You and Jimmy are true assets tothe State of Israel.
(38:01):
The ethical abyss for a CNNproducer to privately coordinate
military fundraising with aforeign government crosses every
boundary of media ethics.
The issue isn't politicalsympathy, journalists are human
and have views, but theconversion of those sympathies
into material collaboration withpower.
CNN never disclosed any suchinvolvement at the time.
Rose continued to book prosperfor owner appearances while
(38:21):
nurturing a personal friendshipthat blended access, influence,
and mutual admiration.
By 2015, she was still writingto Prosser about dinners with
the head of Barak, signing offwith affection.
Of course we mention how closewe have gotten to you.
When journalism becomes socialcurrency among elites, truth
becomes a casualty offriendship.
The handle a hack.
Ethics of exposure, the leakedemails, came from a database
obtained by the hackercollective Handelah and shared
(38:43):
via distributed denial ofsecrets, a nonprofit leaked
repository.
While the group's methods raisetheir own ethical debates, the
authenticity of the content hasbeen partly verified by drop
site news through independentconfirmation of several
non-public details and attachedphotographs.
Still the context matters.
Handala in its posting issued achilling threat against
Prosser's life and act thatcannot be condoned under any
(39:04):
circumstance.
Truth telling is not a licensefor violence.
Yet separating the moral wrongof the hack from the value of
its revelations remains one ofthe defining tensions of modern
investigative journalism.
The systemic rot media ideologyand the illusion of objectivity,
the Froom Merigros Triangleisn't an isolated scandal.
It's a symptom of a broaderpathology, the Western media's
intimate entanglement with thevery powers it claims to hold
(39:26):
accountable.
Access as addiction, elitejournalism has long been
addicted to access.
Reporters orbit influentialfigures, cultivating
relationships that grant insiderquotes but dull their critical
edge.
When the price of access becomescomplicity, the craft decays
into stenography.
The political economy ofneutrality from employer, The
Atlantic styles itself as abastion of reasoned liberalism,
(39:47):
Murray's Spectator is a home forsharp conservative commentary
CNN as an arbiter of balancednews.
Yet beneath these labels lies ashared premise that Western
power, even when brutal, isfundamentally benevolent.
That assumption allowsjournalists to moralize foreign
conflicts as necessarycorrections to evil a narrative
both comforting and corrosive.
The leaked emails puncture thatillusion.
(40:08):
They portray ideology not as anexternal influence, but as a
condition of employment once sopervasive that it goes unnoticed
until private correspondenceleaks.
A crisis of legitimacy whenjournalists act as speechwriters
and fundraisers for stateofficials, the public loses the
ability to distinguish betweennews and propaganda.
The harm isn't confined to anyone outlet, it radiates across
the entire informationalecosystem.
(40:30):
Each time such a breach isexposed, cynicism deepens.
Audiences retreat into echochambers convinced that all
media is corrupt, all reportingsuspect.
The very institutions that onceclaimed to defend democracy now
inadvertently fuel its erosionby betraying their own
standards.
The quiet heroism of exposure,whatever one thinks of the
hackers, it was drop site newsled by Ryan Grimm and Murtaza
(40:51):
Hussein that gave the storyjournalistic coherence and
ethical framing.
They didn't merely dump thedata, they contextualized it,
verified elements, andconfronted the moral stakes
without falling into polemic.
Their work underscores aparadox.
The same establishmentjournalists who once saw
themselves as guardians of truthhave been overtaken by
independent investigatorsoperating on shoestring budgets.
The institutional prestige thatonce conferred authority now
(41:13):
masks decay.
Integrity, meanwhile, hasmigrated to the margins.
Repercussions for journalism 1.
The return of accountability,the David From Douglas Murray
leaked emails force editors andproducers to confront
uncomfortable questions.
Should journalists who privatelyassist government messaging
retain positions of editorialinfluence?
What disclosure should berequired when covering entities
they've worked with behindclosed doors?
(41:35):
Two, the collapse of opinionjournalism, the blurring between
punditry and reporting hascreated moral fog.
When opinion writers gainprivileged access to state
officials, their columns morefrom commentary into
coordination.
What once masqueraded asindependent thought is revealed
to be a managed perception.
Three, the digital whistleblowerIRA leaks have become the final
defense against institutionalhypocrisy.
(41:55):
From wiki leaks to distributeddenial of secrets, these
archives expose thecontradictions that polished
editorials conceal.
But they also present a newfrontier.
How to balance transparency withethical restraint, avoiding harm
even as truth is laid bare.
A mirror for the audience that'stempting to treat this scandal
as an indictment of individualcorruption from hubris, Murray's
vanity, gross his networkinginstinct, but their behavior
(42:17):
reflects a deeper audiencedemand.
Viewers reward moral simplicity,editors reward ideological
reliability.
In such a market, flattery,state power becomes profitable,
dissent becomes expensive.
As long as consumers prioritizeaffirmation over truth,
journalism will continue toevolve into a form of
performance.
The Froom Meyer Gross emails arenot an anomaly, they are a mere
(42:38):
Conclusion The age of managedreality in the twenty-first
century, the boundaries betweenjournalists, propagandists, and
lobbyist have dissolved intopaper.
The David From Douglas Murrayleaked emails illuminate that
blur and excruciating detail atthe center stands a paradox, the
louder institutions proclaimtheir independence, the deeper
their entanglement with thepowerful becomes.
When journalists write speechesfor ambassadors, fund military
(42:58):
programs, and then report onthem under the guise of
neutrality, the result isn'tnews, it's theater.
If journalism still matters, itmust rediscover its adversarial
soul.
That means severing itsdependence on elite approval,
rejecting the narcotic ofaccess, and standing once again
where it belongs.
On the side of the public, notthe powerful.
Our next question is about the temperature and tone
of political speech.
The first example has beenshaping the race for governor
and attorney general for thepast week.
You both will have a chance forrebuttal.
Democratic Attorney Generalnominee Jay Jones admits he sent
text messages to a colleaguereferencing former Republican
House Speaker Todd Gilbert.
(00:21):
Here's what he wrote.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
Jones.
Three people, two bullets.
Gilbert, Hitler, Pol Pot.
Gilbert gets two bullets to thehead.
Spoiler, put Gilbert in the crewwith the two worst people you
know, and he receives bothbullets every time.
Colleague.
Jones.
L-O-L OK OK.
I mean, do I think Todd andJennifer are evil and that
(00:46):
they're breeding littlefascists?
Yes.
Colleague, you were talkingabout hoping Jennifer Gilbert's
children would die.
Jones, yes, I've told you thisbefore.
Only when people feel painpersonally do they move on
policy.
SPEAKER_16 (01:01):
Jay Jones has apologized and says he takes
full responsibility for thosemessages.
Ms.
Spamberger, you have called thecomments disgusting and said you
condemn violence.
The question for you tonight is: were you aware of these messages (01:12):
undefined
before they were releasedpublicly?
And will you continue to endorseJay Jones as the next Attorney
General of Virginia?
You have 60 seconds.
SPEAKER_15 (01:24):
The comments that Jay Jones made are absolutely
abhorrent.
I denounce them when I learnedof them, and I will denounce
them every opportunity I get.
As a mother, as a publicservant, as a candidate for
governor, I denounce them.
And it is important thatcandidates always denounce
(01:45):
violence on no matter which sideof the aisle.
Violence, violent rhetoric, weshould always be focused and
forceful in our denouncement.
And importantly, please myopponent unfortunately only
denounces violence when her sideis the target.
Don't highlight that.
Into the future, she willendeavor to denounce violent
(02:06):
rhetoric and violence no matterwho the victim.
And tonight, Lieutenant GovernorEarl Sears, I will say you
routinely referred to me as EarlSears.
(02:30):
Ms.
Earl Sears.
So as we move forward, we mustcontinue to set a good example
for all of our children.
SPEAKER_16 (02:41):
Thank you, Miss Bamberger.
I just I didn't hear an answerthere on the endorsement issue,
so I want to just make sure.
Will you continue to endorse JayJones to be the next Attorney
General of Virginia?
And were you aware of these textmessages before they released?
You have 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_15 (03:10):
You do imagine.
It denounces Merlin.
Importantly, um, at this point,as we move forward, the voters
now have this information,information that was with
withheld for them.
You're running presumably forpermanent affairs reasons.
(03:31):
Uh but the voters now have theinformation, and it is up to
voters uh to make an individualchoice based on this
information.
unknown (03:39):
Ms.
SPEAKER_16 (03:39):
Member, I understand what you're saying about the
voters, but for you yourself, doyou still continue to endorse
Jay Jones?
15 seconds.
Yes or no?
SPEAKER_15 (03:47):
I we are all running our individual races.
I believe my opponent has saidthat about her lieutenant
governor nominee.
And it is upstairs every personto make their own decision.
I am running my race to serveVirginia, and that is what I
intend to do.
SPEAKER_16 (04:03):
Thank you, Ms.
Spamberger.
Uh we just want to clarify, youknow, what you're saying is that
as of now you still endorse JayJones as Attorney General.
SPEAKER_15 (04:13):
I'm saying as of now, it's up to every voter to
make their own individualdecision.
I am running for governor.
I am accountable for the wordsthat I say for the acts that I
take for the policies that Ihave put out.
Thank you.
I am responsible for thepolicies I put out and the work
I will endeavor to do tirelesslyfor the people Virginia.
SPEAKER_16 (04:35):
Thank you, Miss Spamberger.
Miss Earl Sears, before we getto rebuttals, because we will
get to rebuttals, we have aquestion for you.
While there is no equivalency,this next example does speak to
the divided nature of ourcountry.
During the Charlie Kirkmemorial, President Trump said,
quote, I hate my opponent and Idon't want the best for them.
(04:56):
Is there a place for that kindof political speech?
You have 60 seconds.
SPEAKER_08 (05:00):
Well, I think as everybody knows, I'm a
Christian.
I'm a Christian before I'm aRepublican, and I'm required to
forgive people.
And it's hard sometimes whensomebody has abused you, et
cetera, but it's something youmust do because not to forgive
is almost like as someone saidyou drink poison thinking that
it's going to affect the otherperson.
And I want to live a decentlife, and I I don't want to have
(05:23):
not have peace in my life.
And so I, as I've said before, Iwould not say that.
So that's why I'm wondering whymy opponent won't say, beyond
its abhorrent and disgusting,why she won't say it is not
okay, and that he must leave therace because Jay Jones advocated
(05:47):
the murder, Abigail.
The murder of a man, a formerspeaker, as well as his children
who were two years, two and fiveyears old.
You have little girls.
What would it take him pullingthe trigger?
Is that what would do it?
And then you would say he needsto get out of the race, Abigail?
You have nothing to say?
(06:09):
Abigail.
What if he said it about yourtwo children, your three
children?
Is that when you would say heshould get out of the race,
Abigail?
SPEAKER_16 (06:20):
You're running to be governor, Miss Earl Sears.
I know you're saying that youwould not personally say this,
but do you think still thatthere is that place for that
kind of rhetoric?
The example that we gave, uheven coming from others, you
have 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_08 (06:34):
So I'm responsible for my behavior and what I've
said, I've just said, I wouldn'tsay that.
I would not speak that way.
Look, I'm from a third worldcountry.
I was born in Jamaica, and whenI was 10 years old, I saw that
kind of political violence,which is why I'm asking my
opponent to please ask him toget out of the race, have some
(06:55):
political courage.
What you have done is you aretaking political calculations
about your future as governor.
Well, as governor, you have tomake hard choices, and that
means telling Jay Jones to leavethe race.
I have seen what it means whenpeople are sh are are shot in
the streets and thrown in theback of cars just for political
(07:17):
purposes.
I don't want to see that inAmerica.
America must never be thatplace, and Abigail needs to say
something.
SPEAKER_12 (07:24):
Ladies and gentlemen, let's get into it.
Virginia.
And if you thought you weretuning in for Lincoln Douglas,
you got something closer to aheavyweight brawl in Norfolk.
Now, for those who missed it,here's the scene Abigail
Sponberger, Democrat, formerCongresswoman, former CIA case
(07:45):
officer Walkson leading thepolls.
She's cool, disciplined, and onpaper pretty hard to rattle.
On the other side, Winsome EarlSears, Republican Lieutenant
Governor, Marine Veteran,Jamaican immigrant gun rights
champion, you name it.
Earl Sears is down in the polls,but she came to Norfolk like a
woman who understood she had oneshot left.
And trust me, she fired everyround in the chamber.
But hanging over this debatelike a thundercloud was not
(08:06):
Spanberger or Sears, it was JayJones, the Democratic nominee
for attorney general.
His text messages from 2022leaked, and in them he talked
about shooting then HouseSpeaker Todd Gilbert.
Let me pause there.
Because in a country alreadydrowning in political violence,
school shootings, assassinationattempts, we have a man running
for top prosecutors talkingabout or threatening shooting a
political opponent.
That's not locker room talk.
(08:28):
That's not boys being boys.
That's disqualifying.
That's a breach of trust withthe people of Virginia.
And Spamberger knew she had toanswer for it.
And she tried.
Over and over, she called hiswords abhorrent.
She denounced them as a mother,as a public servant, as a
candidate for governor.
But when Prestwin asked directlyif Jay Jones should step aside,
(08:49):
she froze, she hunted.
She said, That's up to thevoters.
Now let me tell you what thatreally means.
She doesn't want to split herparty, she doesn't want to
alienate her base, and shedoesn't want to hand her
opponent the soundbite ofSpanberger abandons her own
attorney general nominee.
So she did the politiciansshuffle, condemn the act, but
refuse the consequence.
That was her strategy.
Play defense, stay calm, don'tgive away the crown.
(09:11):
But her old sears.
She smelled blood.
And she went for the jugular.
And from the opening moment, shewas in Spanberger's face,
interrupting her answers,accusing her of lying.
At one point, she literallyshouted as line number twelve,
like she was keeping score on achalkboard.
She even bulldozed intoSpanberger's closing remarks,
which, in the polite world ofdebate etiquette, is about as
(09:34):
disrespectful as spitting insomebody's sweet tea.
She wasn't there to be polite.
She was there to make noise.
She was there to dominate andsay what you will about her
approach at work in the sensethat nobody watching that debate
is going to forget herperformance.
But here's the thing (09:47):
what looked like strength to some
looked like chaos to others.
You see, Spamberger kept hercool.
She didn't flinch.
She stared straight ahead whileSears was practically breathing
fire.
And depending on where you sitpolitically, that either makes
Spamurger look presidential, orit either makes Earl Sears look
like a fighter or like she'sunhinged.
(10:07):
Now, let's hit the issues.
Because while the Jones scandalhung over everything, the real
fireworks were the culture wars,abortion, transgender rights,
parents and schools.
On abortion, Earl Sears paintedSpanberger as an extremist said
she supported abortion up to theminute before birth, conjuring
that image of a baby on a table.
Now, that's not Spamberger'sposition.
(10:28):
She said she supports Roe v.
Wade.
But the rhetorical trick workedbecause it framed her as radical
in the minds of anyone whodoesn't dig deeper.
On transgender issues inschools, Spanberger gave a
middle-of-the-road answer-leavedecisions to parents, teachers,
administrators.
Earl Sears hit her back with aYunkin playbook, casting herself
as the warrior for protectingour daughters.
That's been a winning messagefor Virginia Republicans before,
(10:49):
so you can see why she leaned onit.
So again, it wasn't about policyprecision, it was about
emotional impact.
Earl Sears went for the gut.
Spanberger stuck with the hit.
Now, the moderators, God blessthem, they spent half the night
trying to keep order.
They literally had tointerruptions.
Ms.
Earl Sears, please stop talkingover her.
It was like babysitting twosiblings fighting over the Xbox
(11:10):
controller.
The whole thing felt less like adebate and more like
Thanksgiving dinner after thethird glass of wine.
But here's the million-dollarquestion.
Does any of this matter?
Spamberger is in the polls 51 to44.
That's a comfortable lead in astate that's been trending the
glue.
And early voting startedSeptember 19th.
That means a whole lot ofVirginians already nailed in
(11:30):
their ballots.
Which means Earl Sears may havebeen playing to an audience that
already left the theater.
But maybe that wasn't the point.
Maybe she wasn't trying to winthe undecided suburban mom in
Fairfax.
Maybe she was trying to firereprobate people who might have
stayed home otherwise.
Maybe she was trying to say, I'mthe fighter.
I won't back down.
I won't play by the rules of thepolite establishment.
(11:51):
And in that sense mission,here's where I land on it,
Abigail Spanberger acted like afriend.
Safe, controlled, defensive.
Winston Moral Sears acted likethe underdog.
Loud, aggressive, risk-taking.
And you know what?
Both of them were right in theirown way.
Spanberger's job was to not losethe race.
(12:12):
Sears' job was to shake it up.
They each played their role.
But the voters of Virginia,they've got to decide do they
want calm competence or fierydisruption?
Do they want something whoshrugs off scandal with a steady
hand or someone who tries totear the house down brick by
brick?
Because that's what this debatereally revealed.
It wasn't about policy detail.
It was about tone.
It was about who you wantanswering the phone at 3 a.m.
(12:33):
The unflappable ex CIA officeror the no-nonsense Marine
veteran who will yell into thereceiver.
And let me tell you, this racemay already be baked in, but
don't underestimate the power ofone night like this.
Because politics isn't justmath.
It's mood.
And moods can shift.
Sometimes all it takes is onefiery performance, one viral
clip, one moment that breaksthrough.
But if I'm a betting man, Istill say the math favors
(12:53):
Baumberger.
She came in with the lead, sheleft with the lead, and Virginia
doesn't flip on vibes alone.
But the story of last night isthat when some Earl Seers
refused to go quietly, she threweverything she had into that
hour.
And even if she doesn't win thiselection, she's already secured
her reputation as someone youdon't ignore.
So here's a lesson.
In politics, sometimes you winby putting the steady hand on
the wheel.
And sometimes you win bygrabbing the wheel and jerking
(13:16):
it to the side.
Virginia saw both strategieslast night.
Now, the question is, which onedo they trust to drive the bus?
We'll find out in November.
Until then, buckle up.
Because if that debate was anypreview, Virginia's politics
aren't calming down anytimesoon.
SPEAKER_10 (13:31):
Turning now to the Pacific Palisades fire.
So obviously devastating firethat happened in January.
We covered uh quite a bit of ithere.
It was horrible.
People lost their lives, justbillions of dollars in property
damage, and so much just aboutFEMA and just the general
response to that and whetherpeople would be able to rebuild.
We are now learning uh theDepartment of Justice is
alleging that it was actually anintentional act of arson and one
(13:54):
that was deeply planned usingapparently chat GPT style images
with some evidence that they'reable to show you of an Uber
driver who allegedly took partin this.
Let's take a listen to what theysay.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
The Palisades fire reported on January 7th was
caused by an intentionally setfire near a viewpoint along the
Tumesco Ridge Trail into PegnaState Park on January 1st.
The fire was a holdover fire,meaning it was deeply seeded in
dense vegetation and roots andcontinued to burn undetected
(14:27):
until catastrophic weatherensued, resulting in the
Palisades fire.
SPEAKER_10 (14:32):
So this is including the images.
Let's put this up here, guys, onthe screen.
Uh, this is from the acting U.S.
attorney.
He says, today we are announcingthe arrest of 29-year-old
Jonathan Rindernecht on acriminal complaint, charging him
with maliciously starting whatbecame the Palisades fire in
January.
The complaint alleges thatRinderknecht started a fire in
the Pacific Palisades on NewYear's Day, a blaze that
(14:52):
eventually turned into one ofthe most destructive fires in
Los Angeles history, causingdeath and widespread
destruction.
Among the evidence that wascollected from his digital
devices was an image that hegenerated on Chat GPT depicting
a burning city.
While he cannot undo the damageand destruction that was done,
we hope his arrest and thecharges against him bring some
measure of justice to thevictims of this horrible
(15:13):
tragedy.
His initial appearance isscheduled uh uh uh in the U.S.
District Court in Orlando, whereapparently he was.
So some of the details, D3,please, that we can put and
share with all of you, like Isaid, is working as an Uber
driver and was, quote, obsessedwith images of fire, uh, is how
they characterize it.
And so I guess this is like athis is like a thing.
(15:35):
They call them firebugs.
Pyromaniacs.
Yeah, pyromaniacs.
They say he's accused ofmaliciously sparking the brush
fire January 1st.
The fire was then knocked downby the LA uh LA Fire Department,
but obviously continued tosmolder before high winds and
rekindled it.
They said it left 12 peopledead, 7,000 homes,$150 billion
(15:55):
in property damage.
They say he lived in the area atsome point, quote, allegedly
ignited the flames near apopular hiking trail at about
midnight time on New Year's Day,just moments after dropping Uber
passengers off nearby.
They later said that he, quote,appeared agitated and angry
after arriving at the hikingtrail.
He allegedly filmed the scene onhis phone and listened to a rap
(16:20):
song by a French artist whosemusic video features him setting
a series of fires.
The Google record showed that hewas born in France.
Apparently, he listened to thatsong multiple times in the music
video, four times leading up tothe day of the fire, and it
translated the lyrics from thatsong that something says, like,
daily life is killing me.
I feel like I'm nowhere, there'stoo much bitterness in my head.
(16:42):
I think about the mistakes thatwe made.
And they say at another point inthe music video, it actually
shows a bearing bare burningbarrel outside of a housing
project that eventually becomesa huge inferno.
They say he watched his fireburn for a minute before fleeing
down the trail, where he made athree-minute video recording of
himself attempting to call 911to report the blaze as he was on
(17:05):
the phone to dispatchers.
He typed, Are you at fault if afire is lit because of your
cigarettes?
into Chat GPT, which was alsofeatured apparently in the
screen recording that he wastrying to make there.
So creating an alibi, I think,where he was like, I'm calling
911, and am I at fault for itbecause it was a cigarette, like
trying to play it off as acigarette?
We're not exactly sure.
(17:25):
He then said they drove awayfrom the scene, turned around to
follow the responding firetrucks back to the scene, where
he watched and recorded videosas the crew battled the inferno.
And eventually all of this comesto light now, after I guess
prosecutors were able to zero inwith the Uber message, with the
911 records, the arsoninvestigation.
(17:48):
I mean, it's totally crazy.
I mean, killed so many people,caused so much damage.
Uh, and I I genuinely was notaware that this was a thing,
that there are just freaks outthere who like to set fires.
And like creating imagesyesterday.
I never even heard of it.
SPEAKER_09 (18:01):
So most arson is not set by pyromaniacs.
It's like people who are, youknow, looking for insurance
funds or for revenge orwhatever.
But this certainly bears thehallmark of someone who's like
obsessed with fire.
And there's even people who getlike sexual gratification from
fire, watching fire.
And uh, like I don't know if heis one of those people, but it
(18:22):
certainly bears the hallmarks ofsomeone who has like a twisted
obsession with fire, listeningto this video, uh, this music
video, watching it over andover.
He was watching other videosabout fires, even him like
recording himself with the firein the, you know, in the
background and um generatingthese images on Chat GPT, et
cetera.
And we also should say, I mean,based listen, we're I'm reading
(18:45):
a lot into like the lyrics ofthe song that talk about oh my
god, the game list, et cetera.
But you know, it could be kindof like have some similarities
to some of the nihilist killingsthat we've talked about.
And people did get killed here,by the way.
12 people were dead as a resultof these blaze blazes and
thousands of homes destroyed.
Um California was, I don't knowif you guys remember, like it
(19:08):
was horrible.
Um, California was a tinder box,and and it wasn't, it was this
fire was the largest one.
There were others burning aswell.
Um, you had the Santa Ana windsthat were extraordinary, 80
miles per hour that made thisthing spread just so rapidly and
like crazy.
Absolutely sick and horrificthing to have done.
(19:28):
And it it really was kind oflike a perfect so the vegetation
was very dry as well.
I mean, it was just like aperfect storm for this to end up
being one of the worst anddeadliest blazes in California
history.
SPEAKER_10 (19:38):
Yeah, that's right.
It was it was really awful.
We just wanted to make sure wegave everybody an update just
because I mean there's nothingreally political, I guess, to
say about it.
We don't know very much uhexactly.
SPEAKER_09 (19:48):
Everybody immediately ran into what's his
social media and who's in theNew York Post says he was a
Biden speaker.
He gave he gave$2 to Joe Biden.
That's it.
Yeah, he gave$2,$1, and thenanother$1 on another date.
That's it.
SPEAKER_10 (20:00):
Well, for full transparency to the audience, I
have a parlay bet with our uhproducer Mac on whether this
gentleman and Mark Sanchez uhboth had marijuana involved in
the case.
So looking forward to thetoxicology report on both of
those cases.
And he does owe me 50 bucks uhif it does come to pass.
So we'll see.
How do that's putting him in?
What do you mean?
It'll come out in the criminalcase.
(20:21):
He said cigarettes there, right?
You think it's a real cigaretteor a marijuana cigarette?
I'm just we'll just wait.
We'll wait and see.
Uh I'll I'll let you be the uh Iwill let you be the person who
uh looks and can validate thedebt.
Or the debt.
SPEAKER_09 (20:32):
I'll be the judge.
SPEAKER_10 (20:33):
And for Mark Sanchez, we're calling for a
full release of the toxicologyreport.
Yeah.
Full, full scale release inorder to settle this uh wager
between two gentlemen here.
SPEAKER_09 (20:43):
Another thing he came back he did, which um added
to the uh him being a suspect,was he came back to watch the
fight the blaze also.
SPEAKER_10 (20:52):
So sometimes I just get creeped out that people like
this are alive.
And I think that is a in oursociety.
SPEAKER_09 (20:59):
Very natural response.
SPEAKER_10 (21:01):
Hey, if you like that video, hit the like button
or leave a comment below.
It really helps get the show tomore people.
SPEAKER_09 (21:06):
And if you'd like to get the full show, it's ad-free
and in your inbox every morning,but you can sign up at
breakingpoints.com.
SPEAKER_10 (21:13):
That's right.
Get the full show, help supportthe future of independent media
at breakingpoint.com.
SPEAKER_11 (21:18):
So, of course, guys, um, thank the I I I've probably
been beating a drum on thispoint.
I d I do not, even though I doconsume uh legacy media, I am a
big supporter of what is roughlyknown as independent media.
(21:38):
And so I am a supporter ofBreaking Points, with the host
uh Crystal Sager and uh and uhCrystal Ball.
Uh Ryan Grimm as well does GreatRoker there, as well as uh
Emily, with their um show thatthey called Counterpoints, which
(22:00):
is in the Breaking PointsNetwork.
I think they have fair andbalanced discussions, very
vigorous uh in in theirreporting and um not partisan,
not tribal.
They do the left, right, center.
Uh they host um debates uh ondifferent topics where they sit
back and play moderators, andsometimes they do topics where
(22:22):
they will be debatingthemselves.
And if you have uh at least tendollars a month, you can get a
membership at Breaking Pointsfor$10 a month and get their
premium content.
And I have been supporting themsince they launched uh uh their
channel a few years back, and Ihave not regretted it.
(22:43):
So um uh you can uh uh if youcan spare the ten dollars a
month, uh please, please umsupport uh breaking points at um
at um at Crystal and Sagar.
And um that I'll I'll I'll justlet the comments on the
(23:03):
Palisades thing stay as they areuntil I come up with a succinct
and full monologue about it andmore facts come out.
SPEAKER_07 (23:12):
Israeli airstrikes for the first time in Let's
President Trump promises a dealhe brokered will mean lasting
peace.
The next 72 hours are key.
Why are so many Palestinianskepticals?
SPEAKER_03 (23:19):
I'm Leila Falden, that's A.
Martinez, and this is a firstfrom NPR News.
President Trump is planning tohead to Egypt this weekend, so
he'll be there as Israel andHamas implement the first part
of the plan.
SPEAKER_07 (23:28):
It's really peace in the Middle East.
SPEAKER_03 (23:30):
No deal is still fragile, and there are also
questions of what's next and whya small group of U.S.
troops are part of thatequation.
SPEAKER_07 (23:35):
Plus, New York Attorney General James was
indicted on bank fraud and falsestatement charges.
Trump has publicly demanded hisAttorney General prosecute James
and other perceived politicalfoes.
Now the Justice Department isdoing just that.
See what else?
We've got all the news you needto start today.
SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
This message comes from Granger.
If your job at a healthcarefacility includes disinfecting
against viruses, you knowprevention is the best medicine.
And maintaining healthy spacesstarts with a healthy cleaning
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(24:25):
Call 1-800 Granger,clickGranger.com, or just stop
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Granger, for the ones who get itdone.
SPEAKER_07 (24:29):
For the first time in seven months, people in Gaza
woke up with no Israeliairstrikes overhead.
SPEAKER_03 (24:33):
Today is supposed to mark the start of the first
phase of what President Trumpsays will be a strong and
lasting peace.
It comes after Israel'sgovernment approved Trump's plan
for a hostage exchange deal.
SPEAKER_07 (24:41):
We're joined by MPR International Correspondent Type
Batrawi in Dubai to explainwhat's happening.
So tell us uh what the situationnow is in Gaza with a ceasefire.
SPEAKER_04 (24:48):
Well, this morning, a people in Gaza were actually
still being fired on by Israelitroops when they tried to walk
along a main road leading fromthe south of Gaza to Gaza City
and the north.
Hundreds of thousands of peoplehave been displaced in recent
weeks from that city.
But this is what it also soundedlike in the center of Gaza City
for the few people who are stillthere.
So what you're hearing there isthe sound of an Israeli drone
buzzing overhead.
And what that means is Hamez hasnot yet begun retrieving
hostages to release them.
(25:08):
It won't do that until thedrones stop flying.
And the drones are supposed tostop when Israel's military
completes a withdrawal from deepinside Gaza to a holding line
where they would still controlabout half of the Gaza Strip.
Now, it was really defenseofficials told MPR on condition
of anonymity in order to speakabout the operations in Gaza,
but the army had started to pullback to that agreed upon line in
Gaza, and that it would announcetoday it has completed that
initial pullback.
But here's the crucial part.
The clock starts ticking on thisdeal from that moment.
(25:30):
Hamez has just 72 hours torelease the 20 hostages of holes
that are believed to still bealive and any bodies in their
possession, but there are othersthey will need more time to
find.
SPEAKER_07 (25:42):
Tell us um what you know about the details of the
deal that was signed last night.
SPEAKER_04 (25:46):
Well, there is skepticism because the two
previous US backed ceasefiredeals in which Hamez released
hostages were broken, and we sawIsrael return to war.
But Trump says this deal isabout more than Gaza.
He says it's about Midi's peace,and he has given his personal
guarantees to Egyptian, Turkish,and Kotari mediators and Hamas
that the release of all theIsraeli hostages the group holds
will coincide with an end to thewar.
Now, I guess I saw a copy of thefirst page of this deal that was
signed in Egypt last night.
Mediators and Hamas confirmed toenter the document, which is
(26:07):
circulating online, is legit.
It refers to this first phase ofthe deal, which is focused on
releasing hostages.
But this document says the warwill immediately end upon
approval by Israel's government,which we know the cabinet did
vote on last night and approve,in the presence of White House
envoy Steve Whitkov andPresident Trump Seminar Kushner.
But again, this document onlylays out details of the first
phase of the ceasefire and notwhat comes next.
And that's where there's still alot of skepticism and details
that need to be worked out.
SPEAKER_07 (26:28):
So lots of uncertainty over the next uh 72
hours.
Uh, what are you looking to see?
SPEAKER_04 (26:31):
Yeah, it's a very critical next 72 hours.
So beyond the release of Israelihostages and Palestinian
detainees and prisoners, we'realso looking to see whether
Egypt's border with Gaza opensfor having machinery to enter.
That is going to be needed forhow it's retrieved some of the
bodies of hostages that holdsthat that are buried, I believe,
in different parts of Gaza.
It's also needed to recoverPalestinians from under the role
of Israeli airstrikes, includingone last night just before this
deal was signed that struck aresidential building on Gaza
City.
At least 40 people are missingunderall of the Israeli
airstrike rescue crews say.
(26:52):
Yes, sir, there's also anIsraeli soldier killed in North
Gaza.
So we're looking to see now.
As one Israel will allowhundreds of trucks of UN agent
to Gaza to reverse severemalentritchment and starvation.
That could happen as early thisMonday.
Also, President Trump isexpected to visit Egypt and
Israel on Sunday, and the firsthostages and prisoners could be
released by Monday.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_07 (27:09):
The U.S.
has played a big role in keepingthe ceasefire together as 200
American troops are going to theleast to oversee the
implementation of the deal.
President Trump is going toEgypt to cement the deal he
brokered between Israel andHamas, as they're said to carry
out the first part of theagreement.
SPEAKER_03 (27:20):
I think it's going to be a lasting peace,
hopefully, an everlasting peace.
But senior White House officialsare advising that the deal is
still fragile, and there arestill parts of the plan that
could go wrong.
SPEAKER_07 (27:28):
MPR White House correspondent Debat Chabron
joins us now.
A lot of elements of this planare still being sorted through
our officials are worried about.
SPEAKER_14 (27:33):
Well, for one guy, senior White House officials
said yesterday on a call withreporters that there's still a
lot of involvement and work todo to make sure there aren't
misunderstandings between thetwo sides.
They said this is a verydelicate time.
There's a short window herewhere Israeli troops retreat
from parts of Gaza, the hostagerelease and the Palestinian
prisoner release is supposed totake place.
But the even bigger question iswhat happens next and what is
the U.S.
involvement going to look like?
And like you mentioned, theseofficials last night said that
the U.S.
(27:53):
is sending about 200 troops tothe region.
They're going to be part ofwhat's called an ISF or an
international stabilizationforce, which was created in part
of Trump's peace plan.
Claire is oversight to make surethat there aren't any violations
of the agreements, according toWhite House officials, and
they'll be working alongsidewith Egyptian forces as well as
forces from Qatar and Turkey andthe UAE and keeping those
governments as well as theIsraeli government informed
about what they're seeing.
SPEAKER_07 (28:13):
Will any of those U.S.
troops go to Gaza?
SPEAKER_14 (28:15):
While officials said the U.S.
forces are not intended to gointo Gaza, but they weren't at
this point specific about wheretroops would be stationed.
That plan is still beingdeveloped.
SPEAKER_07 (28:22):
Okay, so meantime, what has the president been
saying about the room?
SPEAKER_14 (28:24):
Well, the president's been pretty elated
about all of this.
He held a cabinet meetingyesterday and talked at length
about getting the steel done andrepeatedly said that this steal
meant peace in the region.
SPEAKER_06 (28:36):
But it's uh it's like peace in the Middle East.
SPEAKER_14 (28:38):
And speaking of Trump's involvement, I mean my
officials said he was involvedat many points in the
negotiations, that he would evencall it himself during the talks
to talk with some of theinterlocutors.
I will say though that there aresome elements of this agreement
that are still a little bitunclear.
Um yesterday, for example, areporter asked, what would
happen if Hamas didn't returnall the hostages?
Right now there are believed tobe 40 hostages and 20 are
believed to be alive.
But Trump said some of thebodies would be hard to find,
but quote, we're going to do thebest we can, and couldn't really
(29:01):
get into what the consequencesof what might happen.
Uh, the other thing that Trumpis still a little bit unclear on
is how Gaza will be rebuilt.
Uh, he said that wealthy Arabnations would be part of the
rebuilding process, but WhiteHouse officials said yesterday
that no financial commitmentshave been made yet from those
nations.
SPEAKER_07 (29:13):
Okay, we mentioned earlier that the president plans
to travel to the region,although we know about those
plans.
SPEAKER_14 (29:16):
Yeah, so Trump said that he's trying to leave on
Sunday to travel to the region.
It's not exactly clear yet wherehe's going, but he said he'd
most likely be in Egypt wherethose negotiations are taking
place.
And he was also invited byIsraeli Prime Minister Benjamin
Nanyahu to address Israel'sparliament to connect it.
And Trump said he hopes to bethere when the hostages are
released, which is potentiallyMonday or Tuesday.
So still firming up some of thedetails of where and when this
trip takes place, but thepresence of President Trump on
the ground speaks to how much ofa heavy hand he's had in this
(29:37):
process.
SPEAKER_07 (29:45):
The Justice Department followed President
Trump's public calls and broughtcharges against his top rivals.
SPEAKER_03 (29:49):
Yeah, New York Attorney General Letitia James
was indicted on bank fraud andfalse statement charges.
This comes after the same officeindicted former FBI Director
James Comey.
President Trump replaced the topfederal prosecutor there with
one of his former.
Lawyers, not the person whosecured this indictment.
SPEAKER_07 (30:02):
MPR Justice Correspondent Ryan Lucas joins
now runs what more details ofthe charges against James, the
prosecutor to arrangement.
SPEAKER_06 (30:06):
He's on the just meant to two charges here, one
kind of bank fraud, one kind offalse statements to a financial
institution.
The indictment alleges thatJames bought a house in 2020 in
North Virginia.
Uh the prosecutor said shefalsely claimed it as a second
residence to get better terms onher mortgage.
Uh, an indictment says withthose more favorable terms, she
would have said the total ofalmost$19,000 over the life of
the Lord.
SPEAKER_07 (30:22):
Now, the indictment was called up by a grand jury in
the Eastern District ofVirginia.
That's the same place where thewar of the other colours had
died just a few weeks ago.
SPEAKER_06 (30:27):
That's right.
And there's been a huge amountof turmoil in the U.S.
Attorney's office there in thepast few weeks because of the
Comey case in this case againstJames.
Uh the career dealing attorneywho had been uh the top
prosecutor there basicallyincluded after lengthy
investigations of the evidencein the separate cases against
Comey and Jones uh with twoindifferent charges, but what
else didn't like that theypushed the prosecutor out?
And it's twice President Trumpinstalled uh Lindsay Halligan,
an insurance lawyer who onceserved as Trump's personal
attorney, but she has noprosecutorial experience.
These later Halligan secured uhthe indictment against Comey,
(30:49):
and now if you saw him, shepresented the case yesterday
against James uh to Brand Jury.
Now, these two indictmentsagainst the James and James
Comey came after President Trumppublicly called on the Justice
Department to prosecute them,and that has a lot of bringing
that Trump is using the JusticeDepartment, weaponizing the
department's proceedingpolitical evidence.
Now, which is why people mightknow who James Comey is, but
maybe not the Tuscan Trump asmuch.
So, what is the Trump issue withthe job?
So when James campaigns becomeNew York's attorney general, she
vowed to investigate Trump.
(31:10):
Once she was in office, shedidn't exactly ultimately Trump
and his company for inflatingthe value of some of her assets.
She won that case in court of amassive$450 million judgment,
although that fundamentalpenalty was not what it costs
them on appeal.
But Trump is reputedly left outat her during the presidential
campaign last year, for example,he said that she should be
arrested and punished.
And then in a social media postlast month, Trump urged the
attorney general Pan Bonnie togo after James and other
political folks saying that theywere guilty and that justice
must be served.
(31:30):
How does James then responsible?
She put out a video on socialmedia that's called the
continuation of uh Trump'sreposition with justice system,
justice of this.
SPEAKER_13 (31:36):
These targets are baseless.
And the president's own publicstatements make clear.
His only goal is politicalretribution and then we cost.
SPEAKER_06 (31:43):
James said she's being targeted because she did
her job as New York's stateattorney general.
She said she stands behind heroffice's investigation in the
civil frauds against Trump, andshe said she's not right in the
future to continue to do herjob.
Now that's MPR JusticeCorrespondent Ryan Trump.
SPEAKER_07 (31:56):
And that's the first or Friday, October 10th, I mean,
Tina.
SPEAKER_03 (31:58):
And I'm Lila Falcon, but Trump campaigned on a
promise of mass deportation.
And since the office in January,I think we carried out some
dramatic and shocking rights totry to become things that just
didn't win.
SPEAKER_07 (32:08):
Unlike anything else in the 20 years that I've been
doing this work.
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SPEAKER_12 (33:18):
David From Douglas Murray leaked emails.
The blurring line betweenjournalism and power by Darrell
McClain introduction.
When the fourth estate becomesthe fifth column, journalists
are meant to interrogate power,not script its lines.
Yet, the leaked emails fromDavid Fromm and Douglas Murray,
obtained from the inbox offormer Israeli Ambassador Ron
Prosser, present a griminversion of that ideal.
What emerges is not merely acase of professional overreach,
(33:40):
but an anatomy of moralcollapse, how pundits and
producers once claiming themantle of objectivity blurred
themselves into advocacy for astate's war campaign.
In 2014, while Gaza burned andcivilians perished under
Israel's military assault, twoprominent Western commentators,
David Frum, a senior editor ofThe Atlantic, and Douglas
Murray, an associate editor atThe Spectator, were privately
(34:00):
offering their pens to theIsraeli government.
The correspondence, revealed bydrop site news reporters Ryan
Grimm and Murtaza Hussein,unspools a story of
collaboration, complicity, andquiet hypocrisy within the
Western media establishment.
The context.
2014's Gaza War and thepropaganda machine between July
and August 2014, Israel'sbombardment of Gaza killed over
(34:21):
two, 200 Palestinians, amongthem 551 children, and displaced
tens of thousands.
In the Crucible, Israel'sdiplomats faced mounting
criticism at the United Nationsfor alleged war crimes.
Behind the scenes, however, adifferent kind of battle was
underway, a media war topreserve Israel's image in
Western capitals.
The leaked correspondencebetween Ambassador Ron Proster
and a network of journalists andproducers shows the machinery of
(34:42):
that image making at work.
Speechwriting assistance fromFromm and Murray public
relations coordination withWestern news outlets, private
fundraising for the Iron DomeMissile System, led in part by
former CNN producer Pamela Grossthe results.
A convergence of journalism andpropaganda that, if left
unexamined, corrodes the verynotion of independent media.
David Frum's double role, editorby day, ghostwriter by night,
(35:03):
the speech that should neverhave been written in July 2014.
The Atlantic's David Frum, thenknown for his anti-Trump
punditry and Boucheraneoconservative credentials,
sent Ambassador Prosser an emailtitled an earlier draft of that
speech I sent you.
The document, according toDropsite's report, was a full
speech intended for Prosser's UNaddress, co-written with Seth
Mandel of Commentary Magazine.
The draft invoked the freeworld's defeat of the Nazi war
(35:24):
machine painting Israel'sbombardment of Gaza as a morph
stand against barbarism, a lineeerily reminiscent of Cold War
rhetoric.
It pleaded with Americans not togrow war weary, warning that to
doubt Israel was to betray thelegacy of Truman in NATO.
From wasn't just ghostwritingfor a diplomat, he was crafting
the moral architecture thatwould justify civilian suffering
under the banner of freedom.
The ethical quagmire days later,Frum emailed Prosser again, this
(35:48):
time assuming a different role.
Can I interview you for a shortprofile in the Atlantic?
He asked, proposing to writeabout Prosser's life as Israel's
ambassador.
Two months later, the Atlanticpublished the resulting piece,
Israel's Man at the UnitedNations, portraying Prosser as a
valiant defender against unjustcriticism.
What the readers didn't know,the journalist profiling the
ambassador had also written histalking points.
This dual role, both chroniclerand architect, shatters the wall
(36:11):
that's supposed to separatereporter from subject.
It isn't mere bias, it'sinfiltration.
When journalism becomesindistinguishable from PR,
public trust becomes collateraldamage.
Douglas Murray's courtship ofpower, the speech that flattered
a state on July 31st, 2014,British writer Douglas Murray
emailed Prosser Excellent tospeak earlier.
I am pasting in here my firstdraft ideas.
His attached text was apolished, rhetorical performance
(36:32):
urging defiance againstoutrageous and racist efforts to
boycott Israeli products andderiding European Muslims in
language that fused culturalchauvinism with wartime fervor.
Murray assured Prosser he'd giveall the time I can to help him
get it right.
It's not the sentence of adetached journalist, it's the
language of a courtier eager forproximity to power.
Fundraising for the war effortmonths later, Murray wrote
again, boasting that he'd helpraise over one million pounds
(36:55):
for the Association for theWell-being of Israeli soldiers.
His joy was unrestrained.
The soldiers were superb.
Prosser replied withappreciation, calling his
efforts wonderful work.
That exchange erases anyplausible pretense of
journalistic distance.
Murray wasn't reporting onIsrael's military, he was
bankrolling it.
When the exact figure laterdebated the humanitarian crisis
in Gaza on public platforms,wearing a flat jacket label
(37:18):
press, he omitted that he'd oncewritten speeches and raised
money for the same army he wascovering.
The problem isn't ideology, it'sundisclosed allegiance.
Pamela Gross, the producer whocrossed the line from CNN to
Iron Dome if Rum and Murray'scomplicity was rhetorical,
Pamela Gross's was financial.
Then, an editorial producer forCNN, she emailed Prosser in July
2014, clearly, Iron Dome isdoing the trick in saving lives.
(37:39):
Please, dear friend, let's getit finished.
Her note wasn't a privateopinion, it was the opening move
of a fundraising effort.
I need to know how much moneythey still need to finish the
dome, she wrote, seeking contactwith the Israeli Ministry of
Foreign Affairs to channel fundsdirectly.
Prosser's reply was effusive.
The amazing work you are doingin fundraising for Iron Dome has
the most vital value to thepeople of Israel.
You and Jimmy are true assets tothe State of Israel.
(38:01):
The ethical abyss for a CNNproducer to privately coordinate
military fundraising with aforeign government crosses every
boundary of media ethics.
The issue isn't politicalsympathy, journalists are human
and have views, but theconversion of those sympathies
into material collaboration withpower.
CNN never disclosed any suchinvolvement at the time.
Rose continued to book prosperfor owner appearances while
(38:21):
nurturing a personal friendshipthat blended access, influence,
and mutual admiration.
By 2015, she was still writingto Prosser about dinners with
the head of Barak, signing offwith affection.
Of course we mention how closewe have gotten to you.
When journalism becomes socialcurrency among elites, truth
becomes a casualty offriendship.
The handle a hack.
Ethics of exposure, the leakedemails, came from a database
obtained by the hackercollective Handelah and shared
(38:43):
via distributed denial ofsecrets, a nonprofit leaked
repository.
While the group's methods raisetheir own ethical debates, the
authenticity of the content hasbeen partly verified by drop
site news through independentconfirmation of several
non-public details and attachedphotographs.
Still the context matters.
Handala in its posting issued achilling threat against
Prosser's life and act thatcannot be condoned under any
(39:04):
circumstance.
Truth telling is not a licensefor violence.
Yet separating the moral wrongof the hack from the value of
its revelations remains one ofthe defining tensions of modern
investigative journalism.
The systemic rot media ideologyand the illusion of objectivity,
the Froom Merigros Triangleisn't an isolated scandal.
It's a symptom of a broaderpathology, the Western media's
intimate entanglement with thevery powers it claims to hold
(39:26):
accountable.
Access as addiction, elitejournalism has long been
addicted to access.
Reporters orbit influentialfigures, cultivating
relationships that grant insiderquotes but dull their critical
edge.
When the price of access becomescomplicity, the craft decays
into stenography.
The political economy ofneutrality from employer, The
Atlantic styles itself as abastion of reasoned liberalism,
(39:47):
Murray's Spectator is a home forsharp conservative commentary
CNN as an arbiter of balancednews.
Yet beneath these labels lies ashared premise that Western
power, even when brutal, isfundamentally benevolent.
That assumption allowsjournalists to moralize foreign
conflicts as necessarycorrections to evil a narrative
both comforting and corrosive.
The leaked emails puncture thatillusion.
(40:08):
They portray ideology not as anexternal influence, but as a
condition of employment once sopervasive that it goes unnoticed
until private correspondenceleaks.
A crisis of legitimacy whenjournalists act as speechwriters
and fundraisers for stateofficials, the public loses the
ability to distinguish betweennews and propaganda.
The harm isn't confined to anyone outlet, it radiates across
the entire informationalecosystem.
(40:30):
Each time such a breach isexposed, cynicism deepens.
Audiences retreat into echochambers convinced that all
media is corrupt, all reportingsuspect.
The very institutions that onceclaimed to defend democracy now
inadvertently fuel its erosionby betraying their own
standards.
The quiet heroism of exposure,whatever one thinks of the
hackers, it was drop site newsled by Ryan Grimm and Murtaza
(40:51):
Hussein that gave the storyjournalistic coherence and
ethical framing.
They didn't merely dump thedata, they contextualized it,
verified elements, andconfronted the moral stakes
without falling into polemic.
Their work underscores aparadox.
The same establishmentjournalists who once saw
themselves as guardians of truthhave been overtaken by
independent investigatorsoperating on shoestring budgets.
The institutional prestige thatonce conferred authority now
(41:13):
masks decay.
Integrity, meanwhile, hasmigrated to the margins.
Repercussions for journalism 1.
The return of accountability,the David From Douglas Murray
leaked emails force editors andproducers to confront
uncomfortable questions.
Should journalists who privatelyassist government messaging
retain positions of editorialinfluence?
What disclosure should berequired when covering entities
they've worked with behindclosed doors?
(41:35):
Two, the collapse of opinionjournalism, the blurring between
punditry and reporting hascreated moral fog.
When opinion writers gainprivileged access to state
officials, their columns morefrom commentary into
coordination.
What once masqueraded asindependent thought is revealed
to be a managed perception.
Three, the digital whistleblowerIRA leaks have become the final
defense against institutionalhypocrisy.
(41:55):
From wiki leaks to distributeddenial of secrets, these
archives expose thecontradictions that polished
editorials conceal.
But they also present a newfrontier.
How to balance transparency withethical restraint, avoiding harm
even as truth is laid bare.
A mirror for the audience that'stempting to treat this scandal
as an indictment of individualcorruption from hubris, Murray's
vanity, gross his networkinginstinct, but their behavior
(42:17):
reflects a deeper audiencedemand.
Viewers reward moral simplicity,editors reward ideological
reliability.
In such a market, flattery,state power becomes profitable,
dissent becomes expensive.
As long as consumers prioritizeaffirmation over truth,
journalism will continue toevolve into a form of
performance.
The Froom Meyer Gross emails arenot an anomaly, they are a mere
(42:38):
Conclusion The age of managedreality in the twenty-first
century, the boundaries betweenjournalists, propagandists, and
lobbyist have dissolved intopaper.
The David From Douglas Murrayleaked emails illuminate that
blur and excruciating detail atthe center stands a paradox, the
louder institutions proclaimtheir independence, the deeper
their entanglement with thepowerful becomes.
When journalists write speechesfor ambassadors, fund military
(42:58):
programs, and then report onthem under the guise of
neutrality, the result isn'tnews, it's theater.
If journalism still matters, itmust rediscover its adversarial
soul.
That means severing itsdependence on elite approval,
rejecting the narcotic ofaccess, and standing once again
where it belongs.
On the side of the public, notthe powerful.
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