October 2, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode of the DC Beer Show, the hosts discuss the upcoming Wanderland event organized by the Brewers Association of Maryland, emphasizing the importance of supporting local breweries and fostering a family-friendly environment. They examine the changing trends in craft beer consumption, the role of music and entertainment at events, and the legislative hurdles faced by Maryland breweries. The discussion also includes personal beer preferences and the excitement around local craft alcohol initiatives.
https://wanderlandmd.com
- Wanderland is a new event for the Brewers Association of Maryland.
- The event will feature about 30 Maryland breweries, wineries, and distilleries.
- The focus is on promoting local makers and encouraging visits to their establishments.
- The event is designed to be family-friendly, catering to changing consumer habits.
- Music and entertainment will play a significant role at Wanderland.
- The 'Make Mine a Maryland' campaign aims to unite Maryland's craft alcohol sectors.
- Legislation around beer sales in grocery stores remains a complex issue.
- Direct-to-consumer shipping for breweries is not as widely adopted as expected.
- Personal beer preferences vary, with a focus on unique and local offerings.
- The hosts express excitement for the Wanderland event and its potential impact.
- Steve Murray
- Scialdo
- Brian
- Matthew Green
- Jeff Lucas
- Micaela Carrazco
- Lauren
- Sean Moffitt
- Anthony Scipione
- johnna infanti
- Catherine Ramirez
- Kristin
- Adam Frank
- Steven Lynch
- Jared Prager
- Jeff
- Michael O'Connor
- Favio Garcia
- Josh
- Ellen Daniels
- Juan Deliz
- Mike Lastort
- James Wisnieski
- Brian Minch
- Sam
- Chip
- Tory Roberts
- Chris DeLoose
- Lauren Cary
- Clifton B
- Scott Pavlica
- Greg Antrim
- jeffrey garrison
- Joshua Learn
- Alexis Smith
- Dan Goldbeck
- Anthony Budny
- Greg Parnas
- Frank Chang
- Mikahl Tolton
- Kim Klyberg
- Chris Girardot
- Alyssa
- jeffrey katz
- Andrew MacWilliams
- Jamie Jackson
- Meegan
- Mike Rucki
- Jason Tucker
- Nick Gardner
- Amber Farris
- Sarah Ray
- Peter Jones
- Blue2026
- Brad Stengel
- Bill and Karen Butcher
- Jordan Harvey
- Stephen Claeys
- Julie Verratti
- DFA Howie Kendrick
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome everybody to the DC Beer Show.
We are at DC Beer across social media.
Brandy, what are you sipping on this lovely evening?
Hey Jake, I am actually about to crack open, you ready for it?
Denizans Born Bohemian, it's their Czech pills and uh we'll talk about why I'm drinkingDenizans here in a few Mr.
(00:29):
Stein, what are you drinking?
Do you have a Stein tonight?
Please say you have a Stein.
Damn it.
close.
I've got a nonic or a nonic pint glass uh full of Port City's derecho lager.
I was there last week and derecho lager comes in a nonic in the tap room.
So I decided to replicate the experience at home.
(00:49):
uh I have to say out of 13 years, derecho was named after derecho storm in 2012.
This is the best it's tasting.
ah
downright delightful.
ah Jake, what are you enjoying this evening?
I have a beer neither here nor there, but from the third coast of the Great Lakes.
(01:10):
I am drinking one of the classics I try to revisit every so often.
It is Bell's Two-Hearted.
ah Tastes like fall.
ah Got a nice, tiny kick of centennial, some crystal caramel malts to it.
Delightful.
Get you some.
Kelly Dudek from the Brewers Association of Maryland.
What are you drinking this evening?
Ooh, I'm sitting here trying to decide if I'm going to lie and say what I just had withdinner because currently I'm drinking a cup of tea.
(01:38):
But with dinner, I had Sierra Nevada's Oktoberfest just because the collab this year is sogood and it's time and it's delicious.
John Zervis of the Maryland, the Brewers Association of Maryland, and the employee-ownedUnion Craft Brewing.
What are you drinking this evening?
If I was drinking this evening, I would be drinking a crispy Zadie's lager.
(02:01):
Well done, well done.
So as you may have noticed, we have two of the mines and beers behind the BrewersAssociation of Maryland on the show tonight, as well as Craft and Cultivate, sort of like
the marketing events wing of things.
We're doing this for a couple of reasons.
(02:23):
The first of which is coming up in just a couple of days, and that's Wanderland.
Kelly, you want to tell us a little bit about that?
Sure, this is a brand new event for the Brewers Association of Maryland, which any of youin the event world knows that that takes a whole lot to stand up a brand new event.
um This is gonna be this Saturday, October 4th at Symphony Woods at Merriweather inColumbia.
(02:49):
And not only do we have about 30 Maryland breweries there, but we also have um wineriesand distilleries and cideries.
um We wanted to loop everyone into this event.
We changed a few things this time around.
um One, we were dividing the whole thing into regions.
(03:11):
So we have Maryland's five regions, the Eastern Shore, the Western, uh Southern Maryland,the Capital Region and the Central Region.
And we're really encouraging people to sort of wander through the woods and discover thesedifferent regions.
And that was really intentional on our part because we're hearing from a lot of ourbreweries and our wineries and distillers that what's most important to them right now is
(03:36):
getting people to visit them.
You know, it used to be legislation.
This is, this is a shift for sure that it is more about promotion and getting people tocome and visit them.
And so we've heard in the past, you know, when we have our Maryland craft beer festival inFrederick or our Baltimore craft beer festival in Baltimore that
Some of our makers who are coming from far away didn't always see the value in thatbecause it wasn't necessarily translating to consumers.
(04:04):
uh But if we can build it so that we're showing that these are destinations, it's worth aday trip or an overnight to visit all of these wonderful makers there.
We're hoping that we can convince people that it's worth seeking out and traveling a bitand exploring Maryland to find.
to find our makers.
So we're excited about it.
(04:25):
It's also one of our first family friendly events we've ever done.
So I think it's no secret to all of you guys that the event world has changed.
And so we're trying to meet people wherever they are.
Kelly, I wanna jump in and say when I went on the Wanderland's website for the tickets andinformation, what I found the most refreshing actually was that you broke it up into
(04:51):
regions because there are a lot of breweries in Maryland, there used to be more obviously,but it's visually for visual people like me, it's easier.
to say, my gosh, yeah, like, so I know Lyin' I love Jamie, shout out to my girl, um butknowing what's near where she is and then knowing what's over here in this part of
(05:20):
Maryland, because Maryland is bigger than I always think that it is, and I'm like, wherethe hell am I in Maryland?
How am I below DC but still in Maryland?
So like, this was really cool the way you kind of divided the, not divided, but like,
organized the breweries and distilleries and offerings and I visually enjoy that.
(05:41):
So I'm looking forward to go around and discovering what's near each other and like thecamaraderie amongst even that little section of people, right?
So well done.
What made you decide to do that really?
One, was the feedback from lot of our guys about like, they just want more reason toattend events, but also like uh our Cultivate and Craft arm and the other side, we're
(06:04):
making deeper connections with our tourism partners and our DMOs.
And they are really seeing the value in craft alcohol.
And it was a good way to partner, work together and try to build tourism around craftalcohol.
(07:17):
so we do that on DC Beer.
We have our beer trails.
And it's really helpful.
You go on the website and you want to go to Ivy City or, well, Ivy City, sadly, verysingle now with other half.
you go to like Denison's is over there and like with streetcar.
um So it's for visual people, it's very, very enjoyable.
So well done.
I think that's a great addition to the event.
And it's exciting because this is a new event.
I'm jazz.
Like we're so excited about it.
Yeah.
It's a good point you bring up, Kelly, about uh live events and in-person happenings atthe brewery, at the winery, at the cidery, at the farm.
um Tell us a little bit about the decision uh to have this festival.
uh And then specifically with uh the reworking or changing of Love Thy Beer, how did youcome about?
to hopefully offer like a more family friendly festival, a festival that really bringspeople out in person to see all these makers from this pretty vast and diverse area, you
know, throughout Maryland.
Yeah, I wish I could say that all of this was super strategic and we knew exactly what wewere doing.
(07:38):
But honestly, I think you all know that the event world and drinking habits are changingso much.
And no one, as far as we can tell, has really been able to put a finger on what that is.
It seems to be a real variety of things.
um One of those things, um you know, we learned that
(07:58):
We thought people were drinking less and I think people are drinking less, people alsoseem to be drinking across the boat, you know, a wider variety of things.
So beer loyalist may not still be beer loyalist, but drinking a little wine and a drink, alittle bit of spirits and throwing in some NA options, you know, from time to time.
So we really wanted to build something that, you know, catered to that.
(08:24):
And then the family part, you know, that's important too.
Beer has notoriously been, let's just say 40 year old men, you know, for the most part.
And that audience is changing.
We're aging, we're bringing new people in.
um And the weekends are packed for a lot of adults with activities for their kids ortrying to keep their kids busy.
(08:48):
So.
We really wanted to build something that made it family friendly.
And the other part about Wanderland is it is very different from if you guys have been toMaryland Craft Beer Festival, which we love and it's an institution.
You know, it's been around for a decade now, but it is your quintessential beer festivalwhere you're kind of shoulder to shoulder and you're trying to get to every tent.
(09:11):
uh this one's just different.
It's spread out.
There's a lot of room.
We are encouraging people to bring chairs and blankets and just hang out.
There's a lot of different activities.
There's scavenger hunts for the kids.
There's just, it's a lot of fun.
We're just hoping that this will speak to people.
It's a gamble, honestly.
(09:32):
em And then Love Thy Beer, that one, John and I have just actually been talking about thata little bit recently because...
Those numbers were starting to fall the last two years, but we've been hearing from a lotof people how much they love it.
So John and I are trying to figure out how we can bring that back maybe a littledifferently.
em But we love the concept and we know that we have loyal consumers that love that event.
(09:59):
But it's honestly a month to month with these events.
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Love Thy Beer, because we were sad to see that it wasn'thappening this past year.
We love that event.
hopefully you can figure out a way to bring it back, because it was more of like a brewersevent.
When I talked to a bunch of the folks who, owners of breweries and brewers who weredisappointed that it wasn't happening this past year, they were like,
(10:27):
That was really one of the events that I got to hang out with other brewers.
And it was more of a camaraderie thing.
And I know that's not good, great for ticket sales, because you want the public to come.
But it's more, think maybe that was just good for the brewers and owner's souls, just toget together and be in such a space.
(10:48):
I say tight space, not really a tight space, but a more cozy space than the spread outwoods that we're about to be in on Saturday.
And I think really that event from what I had heard feedback from was more for, you know,hanging out with the other breweries and brewers because they don't really get to do that
very often because they're busy brewing beer.
So, you know, that's probably I assume why tickets were lower.
(11:12):
I don't know.
And plus people aren't drinking as much because, you know, life is life I guess.
But John, we haven't heard from you much.
What are we most excited about?
Where are you going to be on Saturday?
Oh, I'll be there uh running around with a chicken and then I put my head cut off.
I'm super excited for the, for Wanderland.
(11:33):
We really tried to like break the template of a beer festival on this one.
And I really feel like we've leveled up not only with the venue, but with the quality ofthe music.
I'm a music guy and I'm super excited for the bands that we have playing on the chrysalis,which is like this amazing architectural stage.
em And the way that we broke it up into regions, just like, you know, that appeals to you,really appeals to me too.
(12:02):
And I think to all of our brewers and to the guests to be able to understand whereeverything is in the state and to be proud of the vastness of Maryland and all that it has
to offer.
I think we're really putting that on display in a really unique way.
You know, and the fact that it's really a choose your own adventure.
You don't have to just
you know, walk around a field in a square and stand in line, uh you know, for two ouncesof beer, uh you can really meander back and forth from the stage and see like a real show.
(12:34):
can go to the, we have a cheese pairing tent.
So, you know, you can grab a, you can grab a stout and then walk into the cheese pairingtent and say, Hey, what cheese pairs well with uh stout?
And that will be there for you.
uh Even the food trucks.
Yeah, of course.
Who doesn't love cheese?
ah And even the food trucks, like they were very intentional about making sure we hadglobal flavors and, not just like two or three barbecue trucks.
(13:03):
And, you know, it's I think it's it really has a lot to offer a lot of different people.
And we know from the feedback we've gotten on lots of events that you can't rinse andrepeat the same concepts over and over again.
So hopefully this is something fresh and original and super fun for everybody that comesout.
(13:24):
So John, a little bit about the music because over the years, Union has thrown theseanniversary parties with some great gets.
And to me, Lee Fields is a great get.
ah That seems like something that Union might do.
Was that your doing?
I think I had some significant influence on, mean, Kelly loves music too, and the two ofus really vibe over music all the time.
(13:51):
So she's a great partner to have, but um yeah, you know, I'm taking a lot of what Ilearned from throwing shows at Union, um trying to get acts that people may not be super
aware of, but that I know they'll love if they, you know, if they come out and see them.
um So yeah, we just, did try to.
sort of translate that onto this festival.
(14:14):
Realistically, I mean, there's a lot of vendors, know, there's a lot of beer and wine andspirits on Saturday.
And if it's so sprawled out, what is the likelihood that everyone's going to be able to,because I can't really picture it.
I'm just picturing like being in the woods.
And, you know, what's the likelihood that everyone's going to be able to get to all thestuff that they
(14:41):
you know, like all the beer options.
don't, I'm just having a hard time visualizing the space, so.
Well, Symphony Woods is really a park setting.
know, it's not like you're in chaotic, crowded, dense woods.
So, you know, it's big, beautiful trees, well spaced apart.
(15:01):
You're under the canopy.
There's paved trails that, you know, wander, meander through the trees.
So the regions will be set up along the path.
uh And uh like we say, the path is the party.
So if you follow the path, you're going to hit every region.
uh it will not be difficult to find your favorite brewer or to hit them all if you focuson that for the day.
(15:24):
If we do some simple math, right, it's a five hour event, there's 50 craft alcoholvendors, you gotta hit 10 an hour.
Boom, challenge accepted.
Ambitious we we have to be we have to say uh all things in moderation even moderation Butdon't feel bad if you can't hit them all many of them are open 52 weeks out of the year So
(15:44):
should you want to come back for more cheese after you're all cheesed out and maybe pourYou know pair a cider or some wine with cheese.
That's also an option come uh November December or even January
You know, one of the cool aspects that we're bringing to this that we've never donebefore, and this kind of plays into having such great bands on the stage, is that we want
(16:08):
people to go to the stage and sit there for an entire set.
And so we are setting up a BAM bar where you can purchase full pours so that, you youdon't have to walk over there with two ounces of beer and be done in a second and then
want to leave the stage.
So, you know,
sample your way around the festival, find your favorite beer, come buy a pint at the BAMtent, and then go see a set.
(16:34):
Yeah, and we're highlighting the beers that were recently brewed with Bear Branch grains.
So they're all local grains, malts.
um And a lot of our vendors, breweries, wineries, and distillers will also be selling fullpours.
So, you know, for the people who know who they like already, we want them to grab a fullone and sit down and relax a little bit.
(16:56):
Yeah, I was going to say the, ability to sit down for a whole set and have a full beer orfull pour glass of wine, whatever, um, is way more appealing to me than a band.
actually want to sit through a set for, but I got to go back to get my like samples thatwere included.
And then I'm having 31 ounce pours instead of just two pints at two different sets.
(17:16):
So that makes total sense to me.
John and I were building an event for ourselves because we don't want to stand in line for
But I love that.
I know.
I know you say this with a smile on your face, but thinking about how you may be in theaudience enables you to think about others in the audience.
Right.
um Ironically enough, I was at a farm this uh weekend in Prince George's County, and ah itwas like a work event where they had, you know, free free beer and alcohol under the work
(17:48):
tent.
But then
We were out and there was like no shade at all on the farm.
And sure enough, there was a pop-up tent and it was crooked crab.
And it was like the only craft beer on the, you know, like 300 acre, a lot of Halloweenpumpkin painting and hayrides.
And then the other, you know, a hundred acres, like where the farming actually takesplace.
But I found this tent and they had draft beer.
(18:08):
was so ice cold.
It was like the perfect thing.
And I was like, I don't want free beer and free wine.
I would just want draft beer.
Just one like that's perfect on a.
You know, we hit like 82 in Prince George's County.
was crazy.
But anyways, so I love what you guys have done with the format for this festival.
Is there any other interesting things that listeners might not know just by, you know,clicking through the site that that you could inform us on?
(18:33):
There is one more thing that we are debuting at the festival ah and that is a reallyexciting initiative uh that Cultivate and Craft is fostering on behalf of all three
guilds, the Maryland Distillers Guild, Maryland Wine, and the Brewers Association.
ah It's a campaign called Make Mine a Maryland and the whole concept is
(18:58):
one to unite all three sectors of Maryland craft alcohol with the rallying cry of makemine a Maryland.
We think it might be the first of its kind in the country.
We think Maryland is possibly the first state to ever really bring their three alcoholsectors, craft alcohol sectors together under one banner.
(19:20):
And, you know, we're not trying to encourage people to start drinking.
But we know that Marylanders are already obsessed with Maryland and the flag and, youknow, it's our culture in the state, but they don't necessarily choose to spend their
money on Maryland made products at the time of purchase.
(19:41):
And so this is a reminder to keep Maryland, you know, in your conscience and
And and it would regardless of what your drink of choice is your brand your style Marylandhas something probably better and and you know, and it's just a it's just a little trip
(20:02):
away to you know to go visit the manufacturer uh So we have a campaign that's going tosort of soft launch at Wanderland There's going to be a make mine of Maryland tent with
merch
uh and information about how to access the campaign.
And then uh in a few days beyond Wanderland, we're going to launch the whole campaign andyou'll see it everywhere from digital uh to real life activations, point of sale, retail,
(20:36):
taprooms, everywhere.
So we're really excited about that.
Yeah.
Thank you.
kind of cool.
And it's catchy.
It's catchy.
Yeah.
Nice.
I have a question, and I'm not sure if you're going to be able to answer this properly orhow you're going to answer this.
(20:56):
So I'm curious.
Between the Frederick Craft Beer Festival, which we always go to, we love that event.
and the Baltimore Craft Beer Festival, what made you decide to nix the Baltimore one andkeep the Frederick one?
Because I mean, they're both very similar, in my opinion.
(21:20):
um But yeah, I'm curious.
Yeah, it wasn't an easy decision, but um the numbers speak.
our Frederick Festival has, it's actually been at the Creek for about 10 years, but itexisted, you know, five or six years before that.
So we almost have a bit of a cult following for the Frederick Beer Festival and we don'thave to put a ton into promoting that.
(21:48):
Baltimore Craft on the other hand,
We have been trying to get that on par with Maryland craft for years now.
And I know that people attend it think that it seems to be very successful.
And in a lot of ways it is, but financially it hasn't been.
It is a more expensive event for us to put on in Baltimore.
(22:09):
We have never hit the numbers that we need for it to be profitable and sustainable.
And so.
It was a really hard decision because we love Baltimore.
em know, both John and I have lived in Baltimore, worked in Baltimore, and we want tobring events there.
But when it comes down to the association, you know, we're a nonprofit and we really relyon this funding to get a lot done.
(22:34):
Like this campaign that we just talked about, you know, like our legislative efforts.
There's a lot that goes into that funding goes along.
And so we really needed to think about that strategically.
And we haven't officially said that Baltimore Craft Beer Festival is done, but we wantedto try something new this year and see if that resonated more with people.
(22:58):
Cool, that makes sense because the Frederick one is slammed.
mean, this past year, I didn't even get to a whole section.
I didn't get to the other side of the creek.
I just stayed on the food trucky side on this side of the bridge.
And I was like, I didn't even get over there.
I didn't even see half my friends there that day because there was so many people and justgoing back and forth by the creek.
(23:23):
So it makes sense.
I bet this Wanderland event is going to really hit it off.
And everyone seemed to be promoting it very well.
I see denizens constantly pushing it um and the local breweries.
So I think it's going to be great.
I think everyone's excited about it.
I hope so.
are.
Yeah.
And the Frederick one, we, and I keep saying like, it was a banner year and we did do afew different things, but we're not sure what exactly set it off this last year, but it
(23:51):
was one of the best years we've had in a long time.
And to say that, yeah, to say that in the midst of this weird event time where things justaren't, you know, going so well, we're very, very thankful for the Maryland Craft Beer
Festival.
I like the Mardi Gras band that was there walking around.
That was dope.
Yeah.
That was.
That was a little uh surprise we kept under our hats.
(24:14):
And for Wanderland, we have a couple more little surprises under our hats that we haven'ttold anyone about.
So come visit us.
under my hat.
mean, one thing that's gonna happen is someone is gonna be dressed up in the Marylandflag, all old bay decked out, and they're gonna see, make mine a Maryland, and their heads
(24:35):
are gonna explode.
They're gonna have like a giant ear to ear grin.
And I think that will be pretty exciting.
Jake, I can't tell you how many times we've come up with like different characters forsomeone to dress up as and it's always supposed to be Hugh Sisson.
Everyone's like, it's going to be Hugh Sisson.
It seems he's gonna do it.
(24:55):
Yeah.
One thing that I really like seeing from you guys, that's BAM, the Brewers Association ofMaryland, is like now every Thursday, every Friday, I go on your social media and you've
got a rundown of just like kind of local Maryland brewery events.
And I think that's a very, very cool idea.
(25:16):
I haven't really, I haven't seen other guilds, other associations doing that.
And so as a, know, aficionado from the consumer standpoint,
It's really cool to see that.
Thanks, yeah.
Yeah, that was part of our social media strategy for last year carried on to this year.
You know, it's just, we're just listening to our members and they want to be promoted uhand that's kind of at the top of our priority list.
(25:43):
So telling their stories and showing people what they have going on, uh you know, everyweekend at these various venues is really important.
So we're just, you know.
doing our best to help them out.
Yeah.
Um, I have a bit of a wild card question for you, Kelly and John and jump ball.
Uh, but you know, I'm, I'm a beer historian.
(26:05):
I'm a huge beer nerd.
Um, looking at Baltimore's history, we know some breweries that were born.
We're talking pre-prohibition.
So a hundred or closer to 150 years ago.
Um, you know, uh, there was one that was, that was born in, um, 1887 and they brewed 1500barrels of beer.
In 1901, they were brewing 80,000 barrels of beer.
(26:27):
Do you ever foresee a time where not necessarily Baltimore, but breweries around Marylandare eclipsing 20, 40, 80, a hundred thousand barrels of beer, or are they going to need to
be a hard seltzer, a hemp THRTD, a Beyond Beer, shall we say, a producer to come up tothose sort of heady days that are in the
(26:51):
way past of Baltimore and Maryland's history.
That's a great question.
Well, I would say that if you would ask me that question five, six, seven years ago, Iwould say absolutely one of us is gonna get there for sure.
uh Asking me that today, I'd say that is highly unlikely.
(27:11):
uh And I don't even think anybody's gonna do it with an alternative beverage either.
uh I think if you are making craft beverages,
em You're gonna stay, you're gonna stay craft.
You're gonna stay small and independent.
em And it's gonna be much more about bringing people to your unique venue where you offera unique experience for people and, you know, are proving your value in ways beyond the
(27:44):
product that you make.
And that's how you're gonna sustain yourself.
So.
em
You know, I think those days of the hundred thousand barrel brew, you know, independentbrewery, ah I'm sorry to say, I just don't, I don't see it happening.
Yeah, I would agree.
And Mike, I actually come from an agricultural background.
(28:05):
So em we've seen this with farmers over the years as well and like learning to diversifythe same thing with craft alcohol.
And we work with a lot of in-plannings, which we still have, believe it or not.
We have a lot of people planning to open their doors.
But it used to be that if they were planning a five barrel system, we would say you
(28:26):
definitely need to up that to seven or if they were planning seven we were telling them toup it to ten because if you had a decent product people were you were gonna sell out like
that that was what it was like five years ago and It's just different now, you know, it'sa little bit more niche.
People are looking for specialty uh Beers and it's also becoming a little bit more hyperlocal I do think there is still space for more breweries because
(28:55):
Not everyone has a local uh pub, a local brewery, but what they're offering and the amountthat they're offering has definitely changed.
And with all the hemp-derived beverages and the RTDs and the NA's, there isn't enoughspace on the shelves for all of this stuff.
So it does seem to be a little bit more streamlined right now, but who knows what it'll belike five or 10 years from now.
(29:21):
Speaking of five or 10 years from now, there is a legislative component to what BAM does.
I want to talk just a little bit about Annapolis with regards to two pieces oflegislation.
One is beer and grocery stores in Maryland, and the other is direct to consumer shipping.
(29:44):
How is that looking now versus
say six months ago, a couple years ago.
I'll start with a direct to consumer shipping because there isn't that big of a storythere.
think, you know, we really pushed to have that during COVID because things had changed somuch and we did manage to get that through.
(30:06):
em And some of our breweries are using it, but I'll say not many of them.
It's just, it's too much to ship, you know.
finding the carrier to ship it, finding the person to sign for it when it gets there.
It's just, it's not becoming the vehicle that we thought it was going to be.
For alcohol in grocery stores, em that's been a conversation.
(30:30):
That's come up in Annapolis for seven years now, I believe.
know, last year was the first year it got more attention because our governor weighed in alittle bit on it.
But for the most part,
all three associations, the breweries, the wineries, and the distilleries are agnostic onit.
They do not want to take a position on it.
(30:53):
And that's really because they all know we're probably only talking about five breweries,five wineries, five distilleries about that that would get picked up in these grocery
stores.
And so the majority of the industry would be left behind.
em So while we
We would like to see it to be easier to buy our products in more places.
(31:17):
That one is just, that's a little tricky.
John, Union could be one of those five breweries.
Do you have any thoughts?
We We
just did an eye roll.
You guys can't see this on the podcast.
If I'm speaking as a representative of Union, ah I would say we stand with the BrewersAssociation.
(31:37):
If it doesn't lift up all of Maryland beer, then it doesn't matter if Union might be oneof the beers that could get, one of the brands that could be on grocery store shelves.
So yeah, that's where we stand on that.
I would say, and Adam Benish, you the other owner of Union actually leads our legislativecommittee.
(31:58):
So he has been very firm on their decision to stand with the association.
Okay, total off subject, Kelly and then John, rando question, if you had to pick one ofthese three, okay, and just imagine it's the most perfectly well done of each style that
(32:18):
you could have, okay?
uh A Baltic Porter, a perfectly done Creme Ale, or a perfectly done West Coast?
Which one are you picking, Kelly?
You had to pick one that you had to drink first, like a month.
You had to commit to this.
If I had to commit to one of them for a month, it would be a perfectly done cream ale.
(32:39):
Yes.
Alright, John.
uh I would probably go Baltic Porter of those three.
nice.
OK, cool.
And then what's your go-to fave beers?
We got to know for the guests and the listeners and me.
Style wise, I can give you mine and I keep uh pushing on all of our brewers to brew moreof them.
I love a dunkle.
(32:59):
I want more dunkles in my life.
I know that's not super, super popular.
And the other is just hoppy, hoppy pails.
Just more hoppy.
I'm not an IPA person, but I love a hoppy lager.
Nice.
OK, John.
uh My number one favorite style of beer is like a European leaning lager.
(33:20):
Okay, great.
Noble, I like Noble hops, light, light body, crispy.
That's, that's, that's my sweet spot.
You and Stein are match made in heaven.
Yep, we sure are.
it's not a Zadie, something with a little more malt character, perhaps a Dunkel.
ah Well, John Kelly, you have been fantastic guests.
(33:42):
We are so excited for Wanderland.
And then for the other 51 weeks of the year, make mine a Maryland.
We are super pumped for this.
So thank you both for joining us for this episode.
Yeah, we'll see you on Saturday.
Can't wait.
having us.
That's right.
I'll say we are at DC Beer across social media, wanderlandmd.com for ticket and otherinformation.
(34:06):
John, Kelly, thank you so much.
Go get a yurt y'all.
Thank you.
Get a yurt at Launderland.
Welcome everybody to the DC Beer Show.
We are at DC Beer across social media.
Brandy, what are you sipping on this lovely evening?
Hey Jake, I am actually about to crack open, you ready for it?
Denizans Born Bohemian, it's their Czech pills and uh we'll talk about why I'm drinkingDenizans here in a few Mr.
(00:29):
Stein, what are you drinking?
Do you have a Stein tonight?
Please say you have a Stein.
Damn it.
close.
I've got a nonic or a nonic pint glass uh full of Port City's derecho lager.
I was there last week and derecho lager comes in a nonic in the tap room.
So I decided to replicate the experience at home.
(00:49):
uh I have to say out of 13 years, derecho was named after derecho storm in 2012.
This is the best it's tasting.
ah
downright delightful.
ah Jake, what are you enjoying this evening?
I have a beer neither here nor there, but from the third coast of the Great Lakes.
(01:10):
I am drinking one of the classics I try to revisit every so often.
It is Bell's Two-Hearted.
ah Tastes like fall.
ah Got a nice, tiny kick of centennial, some crystal caramel malts to it.
Delightful.
Get you some.
Kelly Dudek from the Brewers Association of Maryland.
What are you drinking this evening?
Ooh, I'm sitting here trying to decide if I'm going to lie and say what I just had withdinner because currently I'm drinking a cup of tea.
(01:38):
But with dinner, I had Sierra Nevada's Oktoberfest just because the collab this year is sogood and it's time and it's delicious.
John Zervis of the Maryland, the Brewers Association of Maryland, and the employee-ownedUnion Craft Brewing.
What are you drinking this evening?
If I was drinking this evening, I would be drinking a crispy Zadie's lager.
(02:01):
Well done, well done.
So as you may have noticed, we have two of the mines and beers behind the BrewersAssociation of Maryland on the show tonight, as well as Craft and Cultivate, sort of like
the marketing events wing of things.
We're doing this for a couple of reasons.
(02:23):
The first of which is coming up in just a couple of days, and that's Wanderland.
Kelly, you want to tell us a little bit about that?
Sure, this is a brand new event for the Brewers Association of Maryland, which any of youin the event world knows that that takes a whole lot to stand up a brand new event.
um This is gonna be this Saturday, October 4th at Symphony Woods at Merriweather inColumbia.
(02:49):
And not only do we have about 30 Maryland breweries there, but we also have um wineriesand distilleries and cideries.
um We wanted to loop everyone into this event.
We changed a few things this time around.
um One, we were dividing the whole thing into regions.
(03:11):
So we have Maryland's five regions, the Eastern Shore, the Western, uh Southern Maryland,the Capital Region and the Central Region.
And we're really encouraging people to sort of wander through the woods and discover thesedifferent regions.
And that was really intentional on our part because we're hearing from a lot of ourbreweries and our wineries and distillers that what's most important to them right now is
(03:36):
getting people to visit them.
You know, it used to be legislation.
This is, this is a shift for sure that it is more about promotion and getting people tocome and visit them.
And so we've heard in the past, you know, when we have our Maryland craft beer festival inFrederick or our Baltimore craft beer festival in Baltimore that
Some of our makers who are coming from far away didn't always see the value in thatbecause it wasn't necessarily translating to consumers.
(04:04):
uh But if we can build it so that we're showing that these are destinations, it's worth aday trip or an overnight to visit all of these wonderful makers there.
We're hoping that we can convince people that it's worth seeking out and traveling a bitand exploring Maryland to find.
to find our makers.
So we're excited about it.
(04:25):
It's also one of our first family friendly events we've ever done.
So I think it's no secret to all of you guys that the event world has changed.
And so we're trying to meet people wherever they are.
Kelly, I wanna jump in and say when I went on the Wanderland's website for the tickets andinformation, what I found the most refreshing actually was that you broke it up into
(04:51):
regions because there are a lot of breweries in Maryland, there used to be more obviously,but it's visually for visual people like me, it's easier.
to say, my gosh, yeah, like, so I know Lyin' I love Jamie, shout out to my girl, um butknowing what's near where she is and then knowing what's over here in this part of
(05:20):
Maryland, because Maryland is bigger than I always think that it is, and I'm like, wherethe hell am I in Maryland?
How am I below DC but still in Maryland?
So like, this was really cool the way you kind of divided the, not divided, but like,
organized the breweries and distilleries and offerings and I visually enjoy that.
(05:41):
So I'm looking forward to go around and discovering what's near each other and like thecamaraderie amongst even that little section of people, right?
So well done.
What made you decide to do that really?
One, was the feedback from lot of our guys about like, they just want more reason toattend events, but also like uh our Cultivate and Craft arm and the other side, we're
(06:04):
making deeper connections with our tourism partners and our DMOs.
And they are really seeing the value in craft alcohol.
And it was a good way to partner, work together and try to build tourism around craftalcohol.
(07:17):
so we do that on DC Beer.
We have our beer trails.
And it's really helpful.
You go on the website and you want to go to Ivy City or, well, Ivy City, sadly, verysingle now with other half.
you go to like Denison's is over there and like with streetcar.
um So it's for visual people, it's very, very enjoyable.
So well done.
I think that's a great addition to the event.
And it's exciting because this is a new event.
I'm jazz.
Like we're so excited about it.
Yeah.
It's a good point you bring up, Kelly, about uh live events and in-person happenings atthe brewery, at the winery, at the cidery, at the farm.
um Tell us a little bit about the decision uh to have this festival.
uh And then specifically with uh the reworking or changing of Love Thy Beer, how did youcome about?
to hopefully offer like a more family friendly festival, a festival that really bringspeople out in person to see all these makers from this pretty vast and diverse area, you
know, throughout Maryland.
Yeah, I wish I could say that all of this was super strategic and we knew exactly what wewere doing.
(07:38):
But honestly, I think you all know that the event world and drinking habits are changingso much.
And no one, as far as we can tell, has really been able to put a finger on what that is.
It seems to be a real variety of things.
um One of those things, um you know, we learned that
(07:58):
We thought people were drinking less and I think people are drinking less, people alsoseem to be drinking across the boat, you know, a wider variety of things.
So beer loyalist may not still be beer loyalist, but drinking a little wine and a drink, alittle bit of spirits and throwing in some NA options, you know, from time to time.
So we really wanted to build something that, you know, catered to that.
(08:24):
And then the family part, you know, that's important too.
Beer has notoriously been, let's just say 40 year old men, you know, for the most part.
And that audience is changing.
We're aging, we're bringing new people in.
um And the weekends are packed for a lot of adults with activities for their kids ortrying to keep their kids busy.
(08:48):
So.
We really wanted to build something that made it family friendly.
And the other part about Wanderland is it is very different from if you guys have been toMaryland Craft Beer Festival, which we love and it's an institution.
You know, it's been around for a decade now, but it is your quintessential beer festivalwhere you're kind of shoulder to shoulder and you're trying to get to every tent.
(09:11):
uh this one's just different.
It's spread out.
There's a lot of room.
We are encouraging people to bring chairs and blankets and just hang out.
There's a lot of different activities.
There's scavenger hunts for the kids.
There's just, it's a lot of fun.
We're just hoping that this will speak to people.
It's a gamble, honestly.
(09:32):
em And then Love Thy Beer, that one, John and I have just actually been talking about thata little bit recently because...
Those numbers were starting to fall the last two years, but we've been hearing from a lotof people how much they love it.
So John and I are trying to figure out how we can bring that back maybe a littledifferently.
em But we love the concept and we know that we have loyal consumers that love that event.
(09:59):
But it's honestly a month to month with these events.
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Love Thy Beer, because we were sad to see that it wasn'thappening this past year.
We love that event.
hopefully you can figure out a way to bring it back, because it was more of like a brewersevent.
When I talked to a bunch of the folks who, owners of breweries and brewers who weredisappointed that it wasn't happening this past year, they were like,
(10:27):
That was really one of the events that I got to hang out with other brewers.
And it was more of a camaraderie thing.
And I know that's not good, great for ticket sales, because you want the public to come.
But it's more, think maybe that was just good for the brewers and owner's souls, just toget together and be in such a space.
(10:48):
I say tight space, not really a tight space, but a more cozy space than the spread outwoods that we're about to be in on Saturday.
And I think really that event from what I had heard feedback from was more for, you know,hanging out with the other breweries and brewers because they don't really get to do that
very often because they're busy brewing beer.
So, you know, that's probably I assume why tickets were lower.
(11:12):
I don't know.
And plus people aren't drinking as much because, you know, life is life I guess.
But John, we haven't heard from you much.
What are we most excited about?
Where are you going to be on Saturday?
Oh, I'll be there uh running around with a chicken and then I put my head cut off.
I'm super excited for the, for Wanderland.
(11:33):
We really tried to like break the template of a beer festival on this one.
And I really feel like we've leveled up not only with the venue, but with the quality ofthe music.
I'm a music guy and I'm super excited for the bands that we have playing on the chrysalis,which is like this amazing architectural stage.
em And the way that we broke it up into regions, just like, you know, that appeals to you,really appeals to me too.
(12:02):
And I think to all of our brewers and to the guests to be able to understand whereeverything is in the state and to be proud of the vastness of Maryland and all that it has
to offer.
I think we're really putting that on display in a really unique way.
You know, and the fact that it's really a choose your own adventure.
You don't have to just
you know, walk around a field in a square and stand in line, uh you know, for two ouncesof beer, uh you can really meander back and forth from the stage and see like a real show.
(12:34):
can go to the, we have a cheese pairing tent.
So, you know, you can grab a, you can grab a stout and then walk into the cheese pairingtent and say, Hey, what cheese pairs well with uh stout?
And that will be there for you.
uh Even the food trucks.
Yeah, of course.
Who doesn't love cheese?
ah And even the food trucks, like they were very intentional about making sure we hadglobal flavors and, not just like two or three barbecue trucks.
(13:03):
And, you know, it's I think it's it really has a lot to offer a lot of different people.
And we know from the feedback we've gotten on lots of events that you can't rinse andrepeat the same concepts over and over again.
So hopefully this is something fresh and original and super fun for everybody that comesout.
(13:24):
So John, a little bit about the music because over the years, Union has thrown theseanniversary parties with some great gets.
And to me, Lee Fields is a great get.
ah That seems like something that Union might do.
Was that your doing?
I think I had some significant influence on, mean, Kelly loves music too, and the two ofus really vibe over music all the time.
(13:51):
So she's a great partner to have, but um yeah, you know, I'm taking a lot of what Ilearned from throwing shows at Union, um trying to get acts that people may not be super
aware of, but that I know they'll love if they, you know, if they come out and see them.
um So yeah, we just, did try to.
sort of translate that onto this festival.
(14:14):
Realistically, I mean, there's a lot of vendors, know, there's a lot of beer and wine andspirits on Saturday.
And if it's so sprawled out, what is the likelihood that everyone's going to be able to,because I can't really picture it.
I'm just picturing like being in the woods.
And, you know, what's the likelihood that everyone's going to be able to get to all thestuff that they
(14:41):
you know, like all the beer options.
don't, I'm just having a hard time visualizing the space, so.
Well, Symphony Woods is really a park setting.
know, it's not like you're in chaotic, crowded, dense woods.
So, you know, it's big, beautiful trees, well spaced apart.
(15:01):
You're under the canopy.
There's paved trails that, you know, wander, meander through the trees.
So the regions will be set up along the path.
uh And uh like we say, the path is the party.
So if you follow the path, you're going to hit every region.
uh it will not be difficult to find your favorite brewer or to hit them all if you focuson that for the day.
(15:24):
If we do some simple math, right, it's a five hour event, there's 50 craft alcoholvendors, you gotta hit 10 an hour.
Boom, challenge accepted.
Ambitious we we have to be we have to say uh all things in moderation even moderation Butdon't feel bad if you can't hit them all many of them are open 52 weeks out of the year So
(15:44):
should you want to come back for more cheese after you're all cheesed out and maybe pourYou know pair a cider or some wine with cheese.
That's also an option come uh November December or even January
You know, one of the cool aspects that we're bringing to this that we've never donebefore, and this kind of plays into having such great bands on the stage, is that we want
(16:08):
people to go to the stage and sit there for an entire set.
And so we are setting up a BAM bar where you can purchase full pours so that, you youdon't have to walk over there with two ounces of beer and be done in a second and then
want to leave the stage.
So, you know,
sample your way around the festival, find your favorite beer, come buy a pint at the BAMtent, and then go see a set.
(16:34):
Yeah, and we're highlighting the beers that were recently brewed with Bear Branch grains.
So they're all local grains, malts.
um And a lot of our vendors, breweries, wineries, and distillers will also be selling fullpours.
So, you know, for the people who know who they like already, we want them to grab a fullone and sit down and relax a little bit.
(16:56):
Yeah, I was going to say the, ability to sit down for a whole set and have a full beer orfull pour glass of wine, whatever, um, is way more appealing to me than a band.
actually want to sit through a set for, but I got to go back to get my like samples thatwere included.
And then I'm having 31 ounce pours instead of just two pints at two different sets.
(17:16):
So that makes total sense to me.
John and I were building an event for ourselves because we don't want to stand in line for
But I love that.
I know.
I know you say this with a smile on your face, but thinking about how you may be in theaudience enables you to think about others in the audience.
Right.
um Ironically enough, I was at a farm this uh weekend in Prince George's County, and ah itwas like a work event where they had, you know, free free beer and alcohol under the work
(17:48):
tent.
But then
We were out and there was like no shade at all on the farm.
And sure enough, there was a pop-up tent and it was crooked crab.
And it was like the only craft beer on the, you know, like 300 acre, a lot of Halloweenpumpkin painting and hayrides.
And then the other, you know, a hundred acres, like where the farming actually takesplace.
But I found this tent and they had draft beer.
(18:08):
was so ice cold.
It was like the perfect thing.
And I was like, I don't want free beer and free wine.
I would just want draft beer.
Just one like that's perfect on a.
You know, we hit like 82 in Prince George's County.
was crazy.
But anyways, so I love what you guys have done with the format for this festival.
Is there any other interesting things that listeners might not know just by, you know,clicking through the site that that you could inform us on?
(18:33):
There is one more thing that we are debuting at the festival ah and that is a reallyexciting initiative uh that Cultivate and Craft is fostering on behalf of all three
guilds, the Maryland Distillers Guild, Maryland Wine, and the Brewers Association.
ah It's a campaign called Make Mine a Maryland and the whole concept is
(18:58):
one to unite all three sectors of Maryland craft alcohol with the rallying cry of makemine a Maryland.
We think it might be the first of its kind in the country.
We think Maryland is possibly the first state to ever really bring their three alcoholsectors, craft alcohol sectors together under one banner.
(19:20):
And, you know, we're not trying to encourage people to start drinking.
But we know that Marylanders are already obsessed with Maryland and the flag and, youknow, it's our culture in the state, but they don't necessarily choose to spend their
money on Maryland made products at the time of purchase.
(19:41):
And so this is a reminder to keep Maryland, you know, in your conscience and
And and it would regardless of what your drink of choice is your brand your style Marylandhas something probably better and and you know, and it's just a it's just a little trip
(20:02):
away to you know to go visit the manufacturer uh So we have a campaign that's going tosort of soft launch at Wanderland There's going to be a make mine of Maryland tent with
merch
uh and information about how to access the campaign.
And then uh in a few days beyond Wanderland, we're going to launch the whole campaign andyou'll see it everywhere from digital uh to real life activations, point of sale, retail,
(20:36):
taprooms, everywhere.
So we're really excited about that.
Yeah.
Thank you.
kind of cool.
And it's catchy.
It's catchy.
Yeah.
Nice.
I have a question, and I'm not sure if you're going to be able to answer this properly orhow you're going to answer this.
(20:56):
So I'm curious.
Between the Frederick Craft Beer Festival, which we always go to, we love that event.
and the Baltimore Craft Beer Festival, what made you decide to nix the Baltimore one andkeep the Frederick one?
Because I mean, they're both very similar, in my opinion.
(21:20):
um But yeah, I'm curious.
Yeah, it wasn't an easy decision, but um the numbers speak.
our Frederick Festival has, it's actually been at the Creek for about 10 years, but itexisted, you know, five or six years before that.
So we almost have a bit of a cult following for the Frederick Beer Festival and we don'thave to put a ton into promoting that.
(21:48):
Baltimore Craft on the other hand,
We have been trying to get that on par with Maryland craft for years now.
And I know that people attend it think that it seems to be very successful.
And in a lot of ways it is, but financially it hasn't been.
It is a more expensive event for us to put on in Baltimore.
(22:09):
We have never hit the numbers that we need for it to be profitable and sustainable.
And so.
It was a really hard decision because we love Baltimore.
em know, both John and I have lived in Baltimore, worked in Baltimore, and we want tobring events there.
But when it comes down to the association, you know, we're a nonprofit and we really relyon this funding to get a lot done.
(22:34):
Like this campaign that we just talked about, you know, like our legislative efforts.
There's a lot that goes into that funding goes along.
And so we really needed to think about that strategically.
And we haven't officially said that Baltimore Craft Beer Festival is done, but we wantedto try something new this year and see if that resonated more with people.
(22:58):
Cool, that makes sense because the Frederick one is slammed.
mean, this past year, I didn't even get to a whole section.
I didn't get to the other side of the creek.
I just stayed on the food trucky side on this side of the bridge.
And I was like, I didn't even get over there.
I didn't even see half my friends there that day because there was so many people and justgoing back and forth by the creek.
(23:23):
So it makes sense.
I bet this Wanderland event is going to really hit it off.
And everyone seemed to be promoting it very well.
I see denizens constantly pushing it um and the local breweries.
So I think it's going to be great.
I think everyone's excited about it.
I hope so.
are.
Yeah.
And the Frederick one, we, and I keep saying like, it was a banner year and we did do afew different things, but we're not sure what exactly set it off this last year, but it
(23:51):
was one of the best years we've had in a long time.
And to say that, yeah, to say that in the midst of this weird event time where things justaren't, you know, going so well, we're very, very thankful for the Maryland Craft Beer
Festival.
I like the Mardi Gras band that was there walking around.
That was dope.
Yeah.
That was.
That was a little uh surprise we kept under our hats.
(24:14):
And for Wanderland, we have a couple more little surprises under our hats that we haven'ttold anyone about.
So come visit us.
under my hat.
mean, one thing that's gonna happen is someone is gonna be dressed up in the Marylandflag, all old bay decked out, and they're gonna see, make mine a Maryland, and their heads
(24:35):
are gonna explode.
They're gonna have like a giant ear to ear grin.
And I think that will be pretty exciting.
Jake, I can't tell you how many times we've come up with like different characters forsomeone to dress up as and it's always supposed to be Hugh Sisson.
Everyone's like, it's going to be Hugh Sisson.
It seems he's gonna do it.
(24:55):
Yeah.
One thing that I really like seeing from you guys, that's BAM, the Brewers Association ofMaryland, is like now every Thursday, every Friday, I go on your social media and you've
got a rundown of just like kind of local Maryland brewery events.
And I think that's a very, very cool idea.
(25:16):
I haven't really, I haven't seen other guilds, other associations doing that.
And so as a, know, aficionado from the consumer standpoint,
It's really cool to see that.
Thanks, yeah.
Yeah, that was part of our social media strategy for last year carried on to this year.
You know, it's just, we're just listening to our members and they want to be promoted uhand that's kind of at the top of our priority list.
(25:43):
So telling their stories and showing people what they have going on, uh you know, everyweekend at these various venues is really important.
So we're just, you know.
doing our best to help them out.
Yeah.
Um, I have a bit of a wild card question for you, Kelly and John and jump ball.
Uh, but you know, I'm, I'm a beer historian.
(26:05):
I'm a huge beer nerd.
Um, looking at Baltimore's history, we know some breweries that were born.
We're talking pre-prohibition.
So a hundred or closer to 150 years ago.
Um, you know, uh, there was one that was, that was born in, um, 1887 and they brewed 1500barrels of beer.
In 1901, they were brewing 80,000 barrels of beer.
(26:27):
Do you ever foresee a time where not necessarily Baltimore, but breweries around Marylandare eclipsing 20, 40, 80, a hundred thousand barrels of beer, or are they going to need to
be a hard seltzer, a hemp THRTD, a Beyond Beer, shall we say, a producer to come up tothose sort of heady days that are in the
(26:51):
way past of Baltimore and Maryland's history.
That's a great question.
Well, I would say that if you would ask me that question five, six, seven years ago, Iwould say absolutely one of us is gonna get there for sure.
uh Asking me that today, I'd say that is highly unlikely.
(27:11):
uh And I don't even think anybody's gonna do it with an alternative beverage either.
uh I think if you are making craft beverages,
em You're gonna stay, you're gonna stay craft.
You're gonna stay small and independent.
em And it's gonna be much more about bringing people to your unique venue where you offera unique experience for people and, you know, are proving your value in ways beyond the
(27:44):
product that you make.
And that's how you're gonna sustain yourself.
So.
em
You know, I think those days of the hundred thousand barrel brew, you know, independentbrewery, ah I'm sorry to say, I just don't, I don't see it happening.
Yeah, I would agree.
And Mike, I actually come from an agricultural background.
(28:05):
So em we've seen this with farmers over the years as well and like learning to diversifythe same thing with craft alcohol.
And we work with a lot of in-plannings, which we still have, believe it or not.
We have a lot of people planning to open their doors.
But it used to be that if they were planning a five barrel system, we would say you
(28:26):
definitely need to up that to seven or if they were planning seven we were telling them toup it to ten because if you had a decent product people were you were gonna sell out like
that that was what it was like five years ago and It's just different now, you know, it'sa little bit more niche.
People are looking for specialty uh Beers and it's also becoming a little bit more hyperlocal I do think there is still space for more breweries because
(28:55):
Not everyone has a local uh pub, a local brewery, but what they're offering and the amountthat they're offering has definitely changed.
And with all the hemp-derived beverages and the RTDs and the NA's, there isn't enoughspace on the shelves for all of this stuff.
So it does seem to be a little bit more streamlined right now, but who knows what it'll belike five or 10 years from now.
(29:21):
Speaking of five or 10 years from now, there is a legislative component to what BAM does.
I want to talk just a little bit about Annapolis with regards to two pieces oflegislation.
One is beer and grocery stores in Maryland, and the other is direct to consumer shipping.
(29:44):
How is that looking now versus
say six months ago, a couple years ago.
I'll start with a direct to consumer shipping because there isn't that big of a storythere.
think, you know, we really pushed to have that during COVID because things had changed somuch and we did manage to get that through.
(30:06):
em And some of our breweries are using it, but I'll say not many of them.
It's just, it's too much to ship, you know.
finding the carrier to ship it, finding the person to sign for it when it gets there.
It's just, it's not becoming the vehicle that we thought it was going to be.
For alcohol in grocery stores, em that's been a conversation.
(30:30):
That's come up in Annapolis for seven years now, I believe.
know, last year was the first year it got more attention because our governor weighed in alittle bit on it.
But for the most part,
all three associations, the breweries, the wineries, and the distilleries are agnostic onit.
They do not want to take a position on it.
(30:53):
And that's really because they all know we're probably only talking about five breweries,five wineries, five distilleries about that that would get picked up in these grocery
stores.
And so the majority of the industry would be left behind.
em So while we
We would like to see it to be easier to buy our products in more places.
(31:17):
That one is just, that's a little tricky.
John, Union could be one of those five breweries.
Do you have any thoughts?
We We
just did an eye roll.
You guys can't see this on the podcast.
If I'm speaking as a representative of Union, ah I would say we stand with the BrewersAssociation.
(31:37):
If it doesn't lift up all of Maryland beer, then it doesn't matter if Union might be oneof the beers that could get, one of the brands that could be on grocery store shelves.
So yeah, that's where we stand on that.
I would say, and Adam Benish, you the other owner of Union actually leads our legislativecommittee.
(31:58):
So he has been very firm on their decision to stand with the association.
Okay, total off subject, Kelly and then John, rando question, if you had to pick one ofthese three, okay, and just imagine it's the most perfectly well done of each style that
(32:18):
you could have, okay?
uh A Baltic Porter, a perfectly done Creme Ale, or a perfectly done West Coast?
Which one are you picking, Kelly?
You had to pick one that you had to drink first, like a month.
You had to commit to this.
If I had to commit to one of them for a month, it would be a perfectly done cream ale.
(32:39):
Yes.
Alright, John.
uh I would probably go Baltic Porter of those three.
nice.
OK, cool.
And then what's your go-to fave beers?
We got to know for the guests and the listeners and me.
Style wise, I can give you mine and I keep uh pushing on all of our brewers to brew moreof them.
I love a dunkle.
(32:59):
I want more dunkles in my life.
I know that's not super, super popular.
And the other is just hoppy, hoppy pails.
Just more hoppy.
I'm not an IPA person, but I love a hoppy lager.
Nice.
OK, John.
uh My number one favorite style of beer is like a European leaning lager.
(33:20):
Okay, great.
Noble, I like Noble hops, light, light body, crispy.
That's, that's, that's my sweet spot.
You and Stein are match made in heaven.
Yep, we sure are.
it's not a Zadie, something with a little more malt character, perhaps a Dunkel.
ah Well, John Kelly, you have been fantastic guests.
(33:42):
We are so excited for Wanderland.
And then for the other 51 weeks of the year, make mine a Maryland.
We are super pumped for this.
So thank you both for joining us for this episode.
Yeah, we'll see you on Saturday.
Can't wait.
having us.
That's right.
I'll say we are at DC Beer across social media, wanderlandmd.com for ticket and otherinformation.
(34:06):
John, Kelly, thank you so much.
Go get a yurt y'all.
Thank you.
Get a yurt at Launderland.
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