July 24, 2025 • 40 mins
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In this interview, Hans Hartman describes the seismic shifts in the imaging industry and how the Visual 1st Conference stands at the epicenter of these changes. Moving to KQED's spacious headquarters for its 13th edition, this year's gathering promises an elevated experience with theater-style seating, immersive displays, and the industry's most forward-thinking voices.
Visual 1st creates a uniquely candid environment for industry dialogue. Join us Oct. 28-29 in San Francisco to experience firsthand the technologies and trends shaping the future of visual communication.
Agentic AI represents the next frontier beyond the generative AI revolution. Unlike systems that simply create content from prompts, agentic AI accomplishes complex visual goals with minimal user direction. This technology promises to transform everything from editing workflows to print production, potentially creating a "zero click" future for many imaging tasks.
Counterbalancing this technological acceleration is the surprising durability of retro imaging. What many dismissed as a passing fad has become an enduring consumer preference, with Fujifilm's Instax leading substantial market growth and companies like Ricoh/Pentax doubling down on film cameras. The conference explores the rejection of "too perfect" digital imagery, examining why authenticity resonates so powerfully with consumers seeking tactile, imperfect visual experiences.
The conference culminates with its legendary Show and Tell sessions, where innovators demonstrate their breakthroughs in lightning-fast four-minute presentations. These rapid-fire demos consistently earn the highest audience ratings.
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Hosted and produced by Gary Pageau
Edited by Olivia Pageau
Announcer: Erin Manning
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Manning (00:02):
Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the
photo imaging industry's leadingnews source.
Here's your host, Gary Pageau.
The Dead Pixel Society podcastis brought to you by Mediaclip,
Advertek Printing andIndependent Photo Imagers.
Gary Pageau (00:18):
Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels
Society podcast.
I'm your host, Gary Pageau.
Today we're joined by HansHartman, who is well known as an
industry consultant but alsofor the Visual 1st conference
which happens every year inOctober, and we're going to talk
a little bit about that.
But first, Hans, how are youdoing today?
Hans Hartman (00:38):
I'm doing great.
I'm living in part of thecountry where it's not steaming
warm and fog in the morning.
A little sunshine in theafternoon cannot be worse.
There you go.
It's going to get hot inOctober, but not now in July.
San Francisco area.
Gary Pageau (00:54):
So the Visual 1st Conference is like the
networking destination for theimaging industry, in the fall,
that's where people kind of plantheir schedules around.
What number is this for theVisual 1st Conference?
Hans Hartman (01:09):
It's the 13th edition, so we've done it 12
times before.
Gary Pageau (01:13):
So you can talk a little bit about the format
You've got you know you've got aco-chair that works with you
and can you talk about kind ofwhat the objective of the
conference is.
Hans Hartman (01:22):
Yeah, well, I guess, like most conferences,
it's a combination of education,meaning in this case, in our
case, it's educating gettingreally thought leaders, very
smart people on stage who arepointing in the direction of
where technology and our photoand video industry is going.
(01:43):
So there's that.
You, you know.
You learn a lot.
You know what's what's up andcoming, and it's not just the
topics, it's also the who is whoand what kind of new players
are coming on board.
You can meet with thempersonally because of you know
it's still a fairly intimateaffair.
You know up to 200 people whotypically attend.
So that's the education part.
(02:05):
And the second part is that youalluded to also.
It's a great networking event.
It's a day and a halfconference.
At the end of both days thereis also a reception, there's
lunch, there's breaks.
There's a lot of ways of peoplegetting to know each other, but
first and foremost, we try toput a program together and get
(02:26):
really thought-provokingspeakers.
So you also learn a lotattending the conference.
Gary Pageau (02:33):
And I would be remiss if I didn't mention that
the Dead Pixel Society actuallyhosts a coffee meetup on the
morning before the conference ina place yet to be determined,
but we'll be announcing thatsoon.
But that'll be the morning ofOctober 20th.
Hans Hartman (02:46):
And very well attended.
As far as I know, I haven'tpersonally been able to attend
because that's right before theconference starts, but I hear
great stories about it and seeyour photos about it.
Everybody who's doing the photoprinting part definitely
attends your coffee.
Gary Pageau (03:02):
There you go, but there's also been another change
, and it's a change in the venue.
Yeah, it's been at the presidiofor a few years it was uh
places before that but now it'schanging completely to an
entirely new venue.
Can you tell us where it'sgoing and why it's going there?
Hans Hartman (03:19):
yeah, yeah, so where it will be.
It's actually the headquartersof a public television station
in the bay area, where peoplefrom from around here and all be
.
It's actually the headquartersof a public television station
in the Bay Area.
People from around here allknow it, it's KQED.
It's one of the largest publicTV and radio stations in the
country and they have a fabulousfacility.
They totally refurbished itthree years ago.
(03:40):
It's all state-of-the-art techyears ago.
It's all state of the art techFor the very first time.
Like I said, we've done it 12years.
For the very first time it'sactually sort of a staged area.
You're sitting in the theaterinstead of everybody sitting on
the same floor and looking atsomewhat small screens.
This is a gigantic screen.
It feels, feels professional.
(04:02):
There's also a very big screenwhen you enter the venue.
It's almost like a Broadwaykind of thing, where sessions
are also being streamed and inthe breaks you see all the video
and info there.
It's just a step up from thetechnology and the AV that we
have historically done.
And I attended the conference.
(04:22):
Actually, one of our moderators, elodie Mailly.
She has moderated varioussessions in the past, so she's
the CEO of an organization,catchlight, which is focused on
promoting visual journalism andI attended one of her
conferences.
We're at KQED and I was just,you know, that's exactly the
(04:43):
size of what our conference isand the kind of facilities that
I really like.
So I said, hey, can youintroduce me?
Because you know it's not acommercial venue that rents your
space, so can you introduce meto them?
And they were they liked whatwe are doing and said, hey, yeah
, you can rent that facility.
(05:04):
We basically have 70% or 80% ofthe whole venue, four floors
high, separate meeting rooms.
There's a great rooftop terracewhere we can do our reception,
so it's all very nice.
We've always been sort of in awhat do you say?
A grassroots kind of venue.
So they have their charm.
They're also next to the bay,the Presidio or Fort Mason.
(05:27):
I always loved it.
We don't want to say anythingnegative about it, but you know
we don't want to be a boringhotel show and you can do it
anywhere.
This is part of the SanFrancisco heritage so we really
wanted to do that step up there.
Anyway, that's where it will bethis year.
Gary Pageau (05:48):
Yeah, I think some people are going to miss the
kind of spilling out on the lawnon the Presidio sort of thing,
and then you have to kind ofwrangle them back in.
And then of course there's thebeautiful view of the bridge and
everything that was there atthe time.
But I'm sure that the KQEDfacility is very nice.
Now, where is that located inrelation to the precision?
It's in what's?
Hans Hartman (06:05):
called san francisco mission, so there are
a lot of startups also in thatarea.
It's also not that far from thewarriors chase arena there, so
it's a little bit more towardsthe bay side but a little bit
more farther away from the thegold gate bridge and the Bridge
a little bit more south there.
Yeah, sort of an in-developmentarea there, so it's new for a
(06:30):
lot of people from out of town.
Gary Pageau (06:31):
Let's talk a little bit about some of the trends
that are driving the programthese days, because I remember a
couple of years ago, generativeAI was the big hot thing and it
was the first time a lot of ushad even seen it.
Now, of course, it's promotedeverywhere and you're not really
an AI show, but there's alwayssort of AI running through it.
(06:55):
And so Kentucky Love is actuallya gentic AI seems to be the
phrase everyone's using today.
What is that and how is itdifferent from the other flavors
of AI we seem to be hearing?
Yeah, and you're right.
Hans Hartman (07:04):
What is that and how is this different from the
other flavors of AI we seem tobe hearing?
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, technology is just athing that people worry about
because they're thinking about,you know, how can we ultimately
make money with products andsolutions that cater to our
customers.
So AI is not a goal per se forwhat we covered there, but we
have covered it very early on.
For what we covered there, butwe have covered it very early on
, you might remember, we had, Imean, one flavor of AI that
(07:28):
started at least five, six,seven years ago.
It's called computationalphotography, where you use AI to
make capture devices smarter.
So, for instance, at that pointwe had Alex Schiffhauser from
Google, who was their mainperson driving the product
management of theircomputational photography in
(07:49):
their Pixel phone, and that wasa time that the Pixel phone had
only one camera on the back, asopposed to iPhone already two
cameras and was capable ofmaking better bouquet effects
than the iPhone itself.
So computational photographywas one thing that people say
whoa, you know what that?
That means that smartphone, orthe photos that are coming from
(08:12):
the smartphone, are learningbetter and better and better.
Uh, so that was one thingAlmost too good, actually.
Yeah Well, but certainly, and itwill get even better.
The things on the way now that,for instance, last year we had
which is interesting, we hadGlass Imaging, and these are
ex-Apple guys who actuallythat's funny they actually were
(08:37):
the team responsible for theportrait mode in the iPhone and
they have their own company, astartup, glass Imaging.
They actually raised not toolong ago, did a round of $20
million, and they use AI toactually make lenses in
smartphones even better thanwhat's currently available.
(08:58):
And that's with a lot of AI.
Some things started maybe fiveor six years ago.
Some things started one yearago and you see a lot of
benefits, or you saw a lot of AI.
Something started maybe five orsix years ago.
Something started one year agoand you see a lot of benefits,
or you saw a lot of benefitswhen it came out, but then these
things keep still going on aswell.
So computational photography isstill on the way.
Image recognition we had quite afew speakers talk about.
(09:19):
Now how can I not just findwhatever?
You know all the photos with acat in my collection there, but
that has gone a lot farther thanthat.
You know what are my bestphotos or what are photos that I
would never care about anddelete them or put them in a
separate category.
So image recognition was athing.
(09:39):
With ai generative ai we werevery early on and I know a lot
of people in the audience hadn'teven heard about that term when
we had a Fireside Chatpresenter from Barcelona showing
what it really was and earlyexamples on that, and that's
still sort of in our audience inour sort of ecosystem.
(10:02):
That's what most people are nowvery much setting their teeth
in generative AI solutions.
How can you create photos fromscratch or, excuse me, images
from scratch.
Or how can you have a photothat was taken with a camera
whether it's smartphone or adigital camera and make it
better through generative AI andmake it better through
(10:23):
generative AI.
So that's still very much thefocus of what a lot of people
are doing and a lot ofimprovements are happening there
, particularly also on the well,both in photo, but also that's
the very latest you see a lot ofgenerative AI for video so you
can make the creation of videoand editing of video easier and
(10:44):
easier.
But so what is now not that wellknown yet in or you don't see
that many examples yet in ourindustry is what's called
agentic AI.
That's very much the buzz inSilicon Valley or in AI land,
silicon Valley or in AI land,and that's the idea.
It's not that you just give aprompt, like a text prompt or a
(11:09):
photo prompt, and say, hey, makean image from that, but you
actually say, hey, you know whatI want to have this and this
accomplished with that video,make it whatever, make it look
more retro or make it work withmy audience that has Disney's
demographic.
Just change that photo likethat Is that more conversational
(11:31):
in the prompts.
It doesn't have to be, but itcould be.
It could be tied to chatbots,and so there's more back and
forth in explaining, but I thinkthe core idea of agentic AI is
you pay instead of saying thisis what I want or or this is how
you need to do it.
It's more, you give a goal forwhat you try to accomplish and
(11:54):
then that agent is pretty darnsmart and say okay, I'm gonna
grab photos from here, or maybewith this photo, I'm gonna apply
these and these kind of effects, and in essence, you're
removing an interface.
I mean, people don't even haveto.
It's almost like zero clickRight, right, you know imaging
(12:16):
or photo editing, or it couldalso tie to printing, like you
know what.
This is my supply chain.
This is the kind of orders thatI have.
Go figure out how I can sendjobs back and forth, so you will
see it in printing.
You will definitely see it inphoto editing.
Gary Pageau (12:35):
So it's sort of independent of a specific
platform.
Almost it's like you're givingit a task and then it's going to
go do the task independent ofspecific instructions.
Hans Hartman (12:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that's a great way ofsummarizing it.
And you, as a user, you don'tcare how it does it and what
kind of tools it uses.
Assuming it has access to thesetools, it can go on the web.
Maybe it only uses stuff thatis on your computer.
So that has created a lot ofbuzz in the technology world in
(13:15):
general.
Gary Pageau (13:16):
So it'd be almost like an example would be almost
like you know, I want to book myflights to Visual 1st.
I'd like to stay near themission district and the AI
knows what airlines I like tofly, where I'm flying from,
where my points are, what hotelsI like to stay at, and it would
just go do that.
Hans Hartman (13:35):
Yeah, exactly.
And so those kind of things arebeing developed outside our
industry and that is stuck.
You know, people in ourindustry to sort of notice like,
hey, you know, can we not doanything in our environment and
our goal?
You know, at this point it'snot that much of a trending
(13:57):
topic yet in our industry, butit will be in October, I am very
, very, very sure about it.
So we already have two fabulouspresenters lined up in a panel
specifically to that.
We had them speak once at avirtual edition during COVID
there.
But basically they do it withvideo and, along the lines of
(14:21):
what you just described, youknow, basically say, hey, this
is what I want.
Go find some stock photos wherethe video is a little choppy,
or get rid of the pauses.
I mean, figure out how to makethis video better.
So they actually have alreadysomething in place there.
And then the second one that wejust signed up what was it last
week is Eric Yang from TopazLabs.
(14:43):
Okay, who wants to do this in aphoto editing workflow solution
?
Gary Pageau (14:48):
Yeah.
Hans Hartman (14:49):
So we very much.
I mean, it's actually this isone of the panels normally.
You know it's very easy to fillin the panel there because you
know lots of potentialcandidates for particular topics
.
This was a harder one to fillin.
So we're really going out ofour way and asking hey, you know
what?
Are you already thinking aboutdeveloping an agentic AI
(15:10):
solution?
Is there something you canpublicly already talk about in
October, about in October?
I have no doubt that we'll havea full panel, meaning four
speakers coming up, especiallygiven the quality of the first
two.
But it's funny because it's,like I said, sort of percolating
.
It's beginning to createawareness.
Gary Pageau (15:32):
I'm sure there are a lot of people working on it.
It just may not be ready forprime time yet, right?
I mean that might be one of theissues.
Hans Hartman (15:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
They might just try it out alittle bit, have the smartest
engineers play with it over theweekend, then come up with some
ideas, but it's not primetimeyet, exactly.
So anyway.
So that's a Gentic AI and thatwill be a big, I think.
Well, you never know before aconference what will be sort of
(16:00):
the buzz at the conference, butI think this will spur a lot of
thinking.
Right, and the other topic I'mvery, very pleased that we can
finally really zoom into that isthis idea of we call it the
enduring appeal of retro.
So retro and vintage mean thatyou've seen all kind of things
(16:25):
happen in the past and, uh, lotsof naysayers maybe, including
myself at times.
Yeah, hey, you know what thisis a fad people will get tired
of.
You know, my photo looks, needsto look like a vintage photo.
Or why would I buy a film?
I mean, there's all thesebenefits of smartphones or
(16:46):
digital cameras.
So for the longest time, peoplethought you know what, yeah,
it's trendy five years, tenyears ago.
Or, you know, outside imaging,people buy LPs and record
players there.
That will come and go, butretro it keeps growing and
growing In our industry.
(17:07):
The biggest example of that isPolaroid, and then I would say,
in particular, instax howimportant that has become.
Sure, absolutely so.
We are very pleased to havethen the VP of Marketing, ashley
Reeder of Fujifilm, who shouldbe very specifically involved
with all the Instax marketingand those demographics and done
(17:31):
lots of research like why arepeople so interested?
You know, are they onlyyoungsters, are they also older
people?
I mean, there are lots ofquestions there that she will
share her light on.
Gary Pageau (17:43):
So that's one in our retro panel yeah, it's a
weird thing because it sort ofdoubles into the resurgence in
traditional film that hashappened over the last few years
.
It's the same idea.
People, I think of a certainage, who kind of lived through
that age and made the transitionto digital would think why
(18:06):
would you even go back?
I mean, I know photographerswho are like I'm never gonna
load a camera again in filmbecause I did that for 20 years
and I'm never doing that again,and uh.
But there's others who are likesaying you know, and I think it
even goes back to what we'retalking about, about
computational photography, rightwhen it almost makes the
pictures too good, where peoplewant the authentic experience of
(18:28):
imaging, right when you knowwhat's more authentic than an
instant print.
Hans Hartman (18:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This resistance against toogood or too easy, that's part of
the allure.
There are even apps for a phone.
You take a photo but you cannotview it until 24 hours later
there's a few of those.
It attracts a certain audience.
Fujifilm came out with theirwhat is it?
The Half-X digital camera thatalso have an option that
(18:58):
actually delays you being ableto see too many photos at the
same time, right, and then goingback to film specifically.
So we also have Ken Curry, whoyou might know from your PMA
days, who is the general manageror president of uh rico pentax
(19:19):
nationwide, so he will talkabout.
I mean, they're basically theonly film camera company that's
coming out with new film camerasright, exactly of the old ones,
kind of doubled down on that.
Gary Pageau (19:31):
That's kind of their thing they are known for
is kind of that authentic sortof uh experience, sure yeah,
yeah.
Hans Hartman (19:38):
So I'm thrilled to hear that perspective, you know
, vis-a-vis or in conjunctionwith the Instax, because that
might be different demographics,different use cases, so so that
those are two interesting onesfor that panel.
What I'm also looking for isthen a smartphone, and there are
(19:59):
quite a few out there.
We'll have somebody lined upvery soon on that.
You know, a smartphone appdeveloper where you take your
photos with your iphone or yourandroid phone and then say, hey,
give me these vintage effectsso that photo also look as if it
was taken with a film camera.
Gary Pageau (20:15):
So that's in the, the smartphone world, as opposed
to yeah, you know it'sinteresting because the people
are doing that sort of thing.
I find Like Hipstamatic is oneof those, yeah and they really
push kind of the community sideof it.
Hans Hartman (20:30):
Yeah, fisco is another example.
Yeah, yeah, but part of their.
Gary Pageau (20:36):
I think their business model is not just the
authenticity piece or thevintage look, but also finding
other people who are part ofthat ethos.
Hans Hartman (21:05):
Yeah, that's old kind of photo, so we'll have.
We'll most likely have somebodyfrom the print world, somebody
from the app world.
We have the film camera fromPentax, we have the Instax for
the instant camera printersthere.
So we're really finally divinginto this retro theme, I think,
in a very big and exciting way.
(21:27):
Lots of people are veryinterested in that.
And then maybe another topic Ithink that we'll Well, actually
two.
There are two other topics.
Again, I was Two of the othertopics that we were covering in
a big way and, like I saidearlier, you never know
beforehand afterwards which ofthose three or four or five
(21:47):
things I'm mentioning now willbe the buzz of the, the culture.
So we'll see what that will be.
But another one that times wesort of touched upon is you know
how do all these videosolutions, whether it's from a
camera or an app world, you knowhow, how does video now gets a
(22:08):
place in the world of photos, sowe call it a photo and video
convergence and all.
Yeah, you see solutions thatlots of almost everybody who has
a photo solution now is atleast thinking, if not already,
has some kind of element of whatthey're doing.
Is videos as well, cameras.
Actually, what drives a lot ofcamera sales is not is also
(22:33):
having the video capabilitiesand the vlogging, etc.
So you have.
So you have cameras.
You have editing almost editingapp Almost every editing app or
software has both photos andvideo capabilities.
And you see it, even up toprinting, where you see more and
more finally, I would say, moreand more augmented reality
(22:56):
solutions being folded intoprinting.
So you have this nice photobook of your vacation, in your
case in in aruba.
You quote a book there, butthen you, you hold your camera
there or your smartphone thereand you, you, you click and then
you see this cute little videoand you were laying in a pool
and whatever you were doing,probably in conjunction with a
(23:18):
beer, but anyway.
So even the print world, whichnormally you would say, what do
they have to do with video?
But that's becoming part ofvisual storytelling and that's,
I think, important that also theprint world really thinks about
.
You don't want people to sayabout, the real way of visual
(23:38):
storytelling is videos and weare not part of that and you
will be left out there.
So even there, people arethinking about the place of
video.
So that panel will specificallytalk about how are these two
worlds merging?
Some of them start with photosand other videos, but there are
actually also some videosolutions.
We have Hypno in that panel.
They started with a videosolution first, and then there's
(24:02):
a way to get photos out of it,or Instax 360.
Or, excuse me, insta360, the360 camera.
They started with video, butyou can also make it very, very
easy to extract frames and youhave single photos there.
Gary Pageau (24:18):
So anyway, that's another property.
It's a 360 action cam and it'sactually quite a.
I use mostly in my lastvacation of Cuba.
I actually mostly use that andactually it's quite a good
stills camera.
Hans Hartman (24:29):
Yeah, it has.
All these guys are amazing.
We had them.
I mean, they've been around, Ithink, for 12 years or so and
they just went public.
Yeah, they went public with avaluation of $10 billion I don't
know if that's still the case,but really like totally amazing
there, where the valuation of aGoPro is a couple of hundred
(24:52):
million at this point.
So it totally blew them out ofthe water and we had them speak
when it was like a very earlystartup, like a three-year-old
startup.
They won the Best of Show, showand Tell Award and I'm very
pleased that one of theirco-founders, who is the global
VP of marketing, he will also bespeaking in this photo and
(25:13):
video panel.
So, anyway, that's going to bean exciting theme, like what do
we do with video?
For the guys who are coming outof the photo world, all we're
going to do with video can beyou know stay on the sideline
how we're going to incorporateit here.
Best of breed examples, sure?
Gary Pageau (25:30):
yeah, because it is one of those things where I
think you know it's interesting.
Even, like you know, instagramstarted out as a primarily a
still photo, but it didn'treally take off till they added
video.
Yeah, well, be real is addingit.
I mean, a bunch of people arestarting to like, trying to
realize that probably, you know,photos used to be what people
(25:52):
had to add to their platforms tomake them sticky, right.
I think video is what they haveto add to your platform to
actually make money with it.
Hans Hartman (26:01):
Yeah, and it's a different dynamic.
And that's part of what Ireally want to explore with
people who are way more into itthan I am in that panel is you
know, how do people, how do endusers make decisions, whether
they start with taking a photoor it's a video?
(26:21):
First kind of scenario.
It is a different demographics,it's a different in different
situations birthday parties, anddo you start with a video and
then somehow you make it veryeasy to get beautiful photos out
of that video and plus it's adifferent process, completely
Like if you spend any time atall looking at, like influencer
(26:43):
culture or people who havevideos.
Gary Pageau (26:46):
There's a whole visual language there in terms
of cuts and the way they werezooming in and starting with
that.
Hans Hartman (26:53):
It's not really instinctive, you know, and it's
it's almost like a visuallanguage you have to learn if
you want to be really good atsocial video yeah, yeah, if you
get to that level of serious uhyeah, which actually ties in not
meant as a bridge, I'm sure,but that ties into another this
(27:13):
is going to be the buzzafterwards of Visua 1st
presenters.
So we also have Lauder back.
We're very pleased in afireside chat session.
You and I know him from way wayback.
He was the editor-in-chief ofPC Magazine, but for people
maybe more recently, he was theCEO of the VidCon event, which
(27:38):
typically had between 50 and100,000 creators attending.
Every year sold it to Paramount.
So he's like Mr Creator Economy, knows a lot of where, yeah,
what is trending and use casesamong influencers.
Where is that going and what'sreally the difference between an
(28:02):
influencer and a creator?
So it's a video first kind ofworld, but photos also have a
place in that.
So we're gonna explore that oneas our fireside chat.
So it's one-on-one, actuallyit's one on two.
We always have two moderatorsthere, but we really, you know
(28:23):
we'll be able to tap into hisknowledge about where that world
of influences and creators aregoing.
Is it all hype?
Is it all low quality?
I mean, there's also a lot oflabels that have been put onto
that world in the past, but andto some extent they are correct,
(28:44):
to some extent they are not,and it's a very interesting
market if you can tap into it,because all these people
basically that's the definitionof a creator with a capital c
that is focused on definitionall of these creators do this
because they make money somehowout of their visuals.
(29:06):
So people say, hey, I'm youknow, whether it's through
YouTube enumeration or whateversponsorships of companies, etc.
If you make money out ofvisuals but it's photos or
videos or a combo of those, it'salso worth to spend some money
(29:26):
on the best possible tools.
So for our audience and itcould even be again, think about
some of your audience it couldeven be there is merchandise,
photo print, merchandise thatgoes with the video.
So even print fits in thatworld of creator or should at
(29:47):
least be aware of where theopportunity oh yeah, I mean,
that's a big.
Gary Pageau (29:50):
That's what amaze does it?
Right?
They connect creator economywith an output platform, right
yeah?
Hans Hartman (29:56):
and that's also a very interesting task.
Visual 1st presenter, the otherCEO.
Yeah, so the creator economy.
I think that could be the buzzof the conference.
The photo and video worldcombining could be the buzz.
Genetic AI, for sure.
And what else were we talkingabout?
Oh, and retro.
I think these are sort of themain topics at the conference.
Gary Pageau (30:20):
You've also got another fireside chat lined up
and that's kind of interesting,I think, to a lot of people who,
from the traditional world,want to hear that.
Hans Hartman (30:28):
Yeah, Tom Yusoff I guess most people now know him
was in the board of Shutterflyfor quite a while, actually
during the time that Shutterflyalso bought Lifetouch.
(30:48):
He was also interim CEO ofShutterfly for a while, so he
knows the print world reallywell, especially in combination
with where RPI is now.
He was also a successful.
He has his own boutiqueinvestment company, so he knows
investing and the business partreal well.
He was a VP of Flickr in thepast, quite a while ago, and he
(31:11):
also was the founder I think itwas called Photodisc.
That then merged with Getty, sohe was at the roots of what
became the current Getty.
So he knows stock photography,has lots of opinions about that.
He knows both the B2C and theB2B part of photo printing.
(31:32):
Have it the shutter fly, RPIcombo, and then the more
advanced photographer world withFlickr.
So I'm not quite sure what wewill do.
Well, you've got a lot there tocover.
And then the more advancedphotographer world with Flickr.
So I'm not quite sure what wewill do.
Gary Pageau (31:43):
Well, you've got a lot there to cover.
I mean you've scheduled an hour, hour and a half for that
session, right, Because there'sa lot there.
Hans Hartman (31:49):
Well, not totally, but yeah, it's one-on-one.
You can really dive into topicswith a single speaker pretty
rapidly, so there's lots withhim to talk about, and he's a
very smart person, so I'd loveto have him be on stage for the
first time at Vision 1st.
Gary Pageau (32:06):
Awesome and we can't bring this to a close
without mentioning the show.
Hans Hartman (32:09):
And tells yeah because we have a great MC for
that.
Gary Pageau (32:15):
Well, I'm a tiny jumper, is what?
Hans Hartman (32:17):
I am.
No, you did great last time forthe first time.
Gary Pageau (32:21):
No, let's talk a little bit about the format,
kind of what that is, because Ithink some people may not
realize the whole story, thatthere's awards that come from
these, there's recognition thatcomes from these and there's,
you know, people actually havebeen exited out or acquired
because of their show and tellpresentation.
Hans Hartman (32:38):
So talk a little bit about the format, what it
takes, yeah so, to start withthe last one, we have what we
call a hall of fame page on ourwebsite and I think we're like
22, maybe 23, asked show.
They're primarily some of themare in panel knowledge, but
they're primarily show and tellpresenters who spoke in the past
and then have since beenacquired.
(33:00):
So some of them have donereally well after a Visual 1st,
not necessarily because theywere discovered there, but it
also shows you have a good handin selecting show and tell
presenters there.
So what it is, it's four minutes, it's a live demo and four
minutes only yeah, exactly, wehave a clock and we have a very
strict mc who would kick you offstage if it goes on too long,
(33:24):
but it's four minutes.
It's not a pitch session, uh,so you don't have, you know,
powerpoints.
It's really a live demo.
Typically it's the founder or,if it's a larger company, the
product owner and they they showthings live in and explain
things in their own world whywhat they're showing is so
(33:44):
unique and so good and actuallythe interesting thing.
We talked a lot about the restof the agenda with the panels
and FISA chats, and we go out ofour way to get the best
possible speakers there, butultimately these live demo
sessions score the highest interms of our audience.
They love it.
(34:05):
There are three of themthroughout a day and a half
conference, so it's 30presenters all together.
People really remember becauseit was live.
Sometimes something goes wrong,whatever you know.
They can kind of click thecable into their phone or their
computer.
Gary Pageau (34:23):
Or the internet doesn't work, yeah, whatever.
Hans Hartman (34:25):
And our audience I mean most of us are technology
developers, so they're veryforgiving in that sense.
But these people really love it, they eat it up and it's a
great way.
You can do also your search onthe internet and you you read
about these app developers.
It's not the same experience tosee this happening live and
(34:47):
have the right people who reallyknow these apps uh, explain
this and then you can chat withthem during the reception or
whatever, do more than that.
So so those are great sessions.
They're sort of the highlightof our conference.
Again, it's sort of interestingthat that scores the highest, no
matter what kind of educationand trend analysis we do on the
(35:08):
other ones.
But that's an integral part andwe really go out of our way
each year and I want to stressthat because I would say myself
as being the primary recruiterof this I would save myself a
lot of time by just, you know,asking people who have presented
in the past hey, can you showwhatever is new on your end
(35:29):
again this year and fill it upin no time at 30, because
everybody appreciates theexposure.
There's no extra charge, it'sjust having a regular ticket
there.
What we do is go out of our wayto get lots and lots of folks
that have never attended theconference, have never spoken
before, and show their stuff.
So we always bring a lot offresh blood, lots of innovative
(35:50):
developers that are just comingout of the woodworks bring them
on stage.
So that's exciting and that'swhat the audience appreciates.
Gary Pageau (35:59):
And it does have an awards component to it.
Hans Hartman (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks for saying that.
Yeah, so we have fourindependent jury members this
year.
The three that are alreadysigned up is because, well,
kathy nelson, who a lot ofpeople in the audience also know
as being the founder ceo of thePhoto Managers, so she knows
that world.
We have, from the financialside, rudy Berger, who is the
(36:25):
founder of Woodside Capital, apretty large investment bank,
m&a bank in Silicon Valley.
And then the third Show TellAwards person is Anna Dixon.
She's the VP of ContentStrategy at Shutterstock and was
Google in the past.
(36:46):
She was also a director ofphotography at Wall Street
Journal and with Huffington Post, so she has a great, great
background from the high-qualityphoto perspective.
So she looks at tools from thatperspective.
So it's a very varied set ofjudges and basically you know we
have four awards.
They're trophies, there's nomoney involved in it, but we do
(37:08):
publicity.
You can be best of show.
Like I said, insight360 gotthat very early on in their
lifetime.
There's a best technology award, there's a best business
potential award and then there'ssort of an award for whatever
reason that the judges feel weneed to highlight these guys and
it's called a specialrecognition award.
Gary Pageau (37:28):
And the only way to experience Visual 1st is in
person, because it's notrecorded Correct.
No recaps or video clips orwhatever.
And no recaps or video clips orwhatever.
So where can people go to getinformation about attending the
Visual 1st conference, which youhave to go to?
Hans Hartman (37:47):
Thanks, I agree.
Yeah, absolutely like it forcespeople to come, but it it.
It also allows people,particularly the panels vice.
I suggest to be so much likesnapchat in the old days.
You can totally express youropinions, you share it with this
(38:10):
intimate community.
There you don't have to think,oh, my boss or the board members
will look at this two yearsfrom now and I said one word
wrong and and I'm in troublethere.
So it's we.
We try to encourage spontaneous, intuitive, deep conversations.
That's, that's one reason.
The second reason also, the,the true value of experience,
(38:31):
Visual 1st, is doing thatnetworking in person as well.
So, without further ado.
So the website isvisualfirstbiz and it's visual,
and then the number one, stbiz,and you see the program, you see
the bios of the presenters andlots of other information there,
and it will be held October28th in the afternoon, except
(38:55):
the coffee morning starts earlywith Gary, you know, cut on
being there and there's also theWomen in Imaging lunch.
Yeah, which is right afterGary's coffee.
So if you are a female attendee, you not only have free coffee
from Gary, you get the lunch,which is a great way for female
(39:15):
attendees, which areunfortunately still by far the
minority in our industry andalso at our conference.
But they have a way to do theirown networking and they very,
very much appreciate that.
We've done this several yearsin a row now.
So they will have theirluncheon and then the program
starts at 1.30 sharp on the 28th.
(39:36):
At the end of the day,reception, and then an all-day
program on the 29th and alsoreception.
We call it theon-your-way-outth.
At the end of the day,reception, and then an all-day
program on the 29th and alsoreception, or we call it the on
your way out reception at theend awesome well.
Gary Pageau (39:46):
Thank you for your time.
Looking forward to seeing youoctober 28th and 29th in san
francisco.
Looking forward to anothergreat conference likewise.
Hans Hartman (39:55):
Well, thanks very much for uh helping to spread
the word and uh doing this showand tells coming up.
Thank you, take care, all right, take care.
Erin Manning (40:04):
Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixel
Society podcast.
Read more great stories andsign up for the newsletter at
wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.
Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the
photo imaging industry's leadingnews source.
Here's your host, Gary Pageau.
The Dead Pixel Society podcastis brought to you by Mediaclip,
Advertek Printing andIndependent Photo Imagers.
Gary Pageau (00:18):
Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels
Society podcast.
I'm your host, Gary Pageau.
Today we're joined by HansHartman, who is well known as an
industry consultant but alsofor the Visual 1st conference
which happens every year inOctober, and we're going to talk
a little bit about that.
But first, Hans, how are youdoing today?
Hans Hartman (00:38):
I'm doing great.
I'm living in part of thecountry where it's not steaming
warm and fog in the morning.
A little sunshine in theafternoon cannot be worse.
There you go.
It's going to get hot inOctober, but not now in July.
San Francisco area.
Gary Pageau (00:54):
So the Visual 1st Conference is like the
networking destination for theimaging industry, in the fall,
that's where people kind of plantheir schedules around.
What number is this for theVisual 1st Conference?
Hans Hartman (01:09):
It's the 13th edition, so we've done it 12
times before.
Gary Pageau (01:13):
So you can talk a little bit about the format
You've got you know you've got aco-chair that works with you
and can you talk about kind ofwhat the objective of the
conference is.
Hans Hartman (01:22):
Yeah, well, I guess, like most conferences,
it's a combination of education,meaning in this case, in our
case, it's educating gettingreally thought leaders, very
smart people on stage who arepointing in the direction of
where technology and our photoand video industry is going.
(01:43):
So there's that.
You, you know.
You learn a lot.
You know what's what's up andcoming, and it's not just the
topics, it's also the who is whoand what kind of new players
are coming on board.
You can meet with thempersonally because of you know
it's still a fairly intimateaffair.
You know up to 200 people whotypically attend.
So that's the education part.
(02:05):
And the second part is that youalluded to also.
It's a great networking event.
It's a day and a halfconference.
At the end of both days thereis also a reception, there's
lunch, there's breaks.
There's a lot of ways of peoplegetting to know each other, but
first and foremost, we try toput a program together and get
(02:26):
really thought-provokingspeakers.
So you also learn a lotattending the conference.
Gary Pageau (02:33):
And I would be remiss if I didn't mention that
the Dead Pixel Society actuallyhosts a coffee meetup on the
morning before the conference ina place yet to be determined,
but we'll be announcing thatsoon.
But that'll be the morning ofOctober 20th.
Hans Hartman (02:46):
And very well attended.
As far as I know, I haven'tpersonally been able to attend
because that's right before theconference starts, but I hear
great stories about it and seeyour photos about it.
Everybody who's doing the photoprinting part definitely
attends your coffee.
Gary Pageau (03:02):
There you go, but there's also been another change
, and it's a change in the venue.
Yeah, it's been at the presidiofor a few years it was uh
places before that but now it'schanging completely to an
entirely new venue.
Can you tell us where it'sgoing and why it's going there?
Hans Hartman (03:19):
yeah, yeah, so where it will be.
It's actually the headquartersof a public television station
in the bay area, where peoplefrom from around here and all be
.
It's actually the headquartersof a public television station
in the Bay Area.
People from around here allknow it, it's KQED.
It's one of the largest publicTV and radio stations in the
country and they have a fabulousfacility.
They totally refurbished itthree years ago.
(03:40):
It's all state-of-the-art techyears ago.
It's all state of the art techFor the very first time.
Like I said, we've done it 12years.
For the very first time it'sactually sort of a staged area.
You're sitting in the theaterinstead of everybody sitting on
the same floor and looking atsomewhat small screens.
This is a gigantic screen.
It feels, feels professional.
(04:02):
There's also a very big screenwhen you enter the venue.
It's almost like a Broadwaykind of thing, where sessions
are also being streamed and inthe breaks you see all the video
and info there.
It's just a step up from thetechnology and the AV that we
have historically done.
And I attended the conference.
(04:22):
Actually, one of our moderators, elodie Mailly.
She has moderated varioussessions in the past, so she's
the CEO of an organization,catchlight, which is focused on
promoting visual journalism andI attended one of her
conferences.
We're at KQED and I was just,you know, that's exactly the
(04:43):
size of what our conference isand the kind of facilities that
I really like.
So I said, hey, can youintroduce me?
Because you know it's not acommercial venue that rents your
space, so can you introduce meto them?
And they were they liked whatwe are doing and said, hey, yeah
, you can rent that facility.
(05:04):
We basically have 70% or 80% ofthe whole venue, four floors
high, separate meeting rooms.
There's a great rooftop terracewhere we can do our reception,
so it's all very nice.
We've always been sort of in awhat do you say?
A grassroots kind of venue.
So they have their charm.
They're also next to the bay,the Presidio or Fort Mason.
(05:27):
I always loved it.
We don't want to say anythingnegative about it, but you know
we don't want to be a boringhotel show and you can do it
anywhere.
This is part of the SanFrancisco heritage so we really
wanted to do that step up there.
Anyway, that's where it will bethis year.
Gary Pageau (05:48):
Yeah, I think some people are going to miss the
kind of spilling out on the lawnon the Presidio sort of thing,
and then you have to kind ofwrangle them back in.
And then of course there's thebeautiful view of the bridge and
everything that was there atthe time.
But I'm sure that the KQEDfacility is very nice.
Now, where is that located inrelation to the precision?
It's in what's?
Hans Hartman (06:05):
called san francisco mission, so there are
a lot of startups also in thatarea.
It's also not that far from thewarriors chase arena there, so
it's a little bit more towardsthe bay side but a little bit
more farther away from the thegold gate bridge and the Bridge
a little bit more south there.
Yeah, sort of an in-developmentarea there, so it's new for a
(06:30):
lot of people from out of town.
Gary Pageau (06:31):
Let's talk a little bit about some of the trends
that are driving the programthese days, because I remember a
couple of years ago, generativeAI was the big hot thing and it
was the first time a lot of ushad even seen it.
Now, of course, it's promotedeverywhere and you're not really
an AI show, but there's alwayssort of AI running through it.
(06:55):
And so Kentucky Love is actuallya gentic AI seems to be the
phrase everyone's using today.
What is that and how is itdifferent from the other flavors
of AI we seem to be hearing?
Yeah, and you're right.
Hans Hartman (07:04):
What is that and how is this different from the
other flavors of AI we seem tobe hearing?
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, technology is just athing that people worry about
because they're thinking about,you know, how can we ultimately
make money with products andsolutions that cater to our
customers.
So AI is not a goal per se forwhat we covered there, but we
have covered it very early on.
For what we covered there, butwe have covered it very early on
, you might remember, we had, Imean, one flavor of AI that
(07:28):
started at least five, six,seven years ago.
It's called computationalphotography, where you use AI to
make capture devices smarter.
So, for instance, at that pointwe had Alex Schiffhauser from
Google, who was their mainperson driving the product
management of theircomputational photography in
(07:49):
their Pixel phone, and that wasa time that the Pixel phone had
only one camera on the back, asopposed to iPhone already two
cameras and was capable ofmaking better bouquet effects
than the iPhone itself.
So computational photographywas one thing that people say
whoa, you know what that?
That means that smartphone, orthe photos that are coming from
(08:12):
the smartphone, are learningbetter and better and better.
Uh, so that was one thingAlmost too good, actually.
Yeah Well, but certainly, and itwill get even better.
The things on the way now that,for instance, last year we had
which is interesting, we hadGlass Imaging, and these are
ex-Apple guys who actuallythat's funny they actually were
(08:37):
the team responsible for theportrait mode in the iPhone and
they have their own company, astartup, glass Imaging.
They actually raised not toolong ago, did a round of $20
million, and they use AI toactually make lenses in
smartphones even better thanwhat's currently available.
(08:58):
And that's with a lot of AI.
Some things started maybe fiveor six years ago.
Some things started one yearago and you see a lot of
benefits, or you saw a lot of AI.
Something started maybe five orsix years ago.
Something started one year agoand you see a lot of benefits,
or you saw a lot of benefitswhen it came out, but then these
things keep still going on aswell.
So computational photography isstill on the way.
Image recognition we had quite afew speakers talk about.
(09:19):
Now how can I not just findwhatever?
You know all the photos with acat in my collection there, but
that has gone a lot farther thanthat.
You know what are my bestphotos or what are photos that I
would never care about anddelete them or put them in a
separate category.
So image recognition was athing.
(09:39):
With ai generative ai we werevery early on and I know a lot
of people in the audience hadn'teven heard about that term when
we had a Fireside Chatpresenter from Barcelona showing
what it really was and earlyexamples on that, and that's
still sort of in our audience inour sort of ecosystem.
(10:02):
That's what most people are nowvery much setting their teeth
in generative AI solutions.
How can you create photos fromscratch or, excuse me, images
from scratch.
Or how can you have a photothat was taken with a camera
whether it's smartphone or adigital camera and make it
better through generative AI andmake it better through
(10:23):
generative AI.
So that's still very much thefocus of what a lot of people
are doing and a lot ofimprovements are happening there
, particularly also on the well,both in photo, but also that's
the very latest you see a lot ofgenerative AI for video so you
can make the creation of videoand editing of video easier and
(10:44):
easier.
But so what is now not that wellknown yet in or you don't see
that many examples yet in ourindustry is what's called
agentic AI.
That's very much the buzz inSilicon Valley or in AI land,
silicon Valley or in AI land,and that's the idea.
It's not that you just give aprompt, like a text prompt or a
(11:09):
photo prompt, and say, hey, makean image from that, but you
actually say, hey, you know whatI want to have this and this
accomplished with that video,make it whatever, make it look
more retro or make it work withmy audience that has Disney's
demographic.
Just change that photo likethat Is that more conversational
(11:31):
in the prompts.
It doesn't have to be, but itcould be.
It could be tied to chatbots,and so there's more back and
forth in explaining, but I thinkthe core idea of agentic AI is
you pay instead of saying thisis what I want or or this is how
you need to do it.
It's more, you give a goal forwhat you try to accomplish and
(11:54):
then that agent is pretty darnsmart and say okay, I'm gonna
grab photos from here, or maybewith this photo, I'm gonna apply
these and these kind of effects, and in essence, you're
removing an interface.
I mean, people don't even haveto.
It's almost like zero clickRight, right, you know imaging
(12:16):
or photo editing, or it couldalso tie to printing, like you
know what.
This is my supply chain.
This is the kind of orders thatI have.
Go figure out how I can sendjobs back and forth, so you will
see it in printing.
You will definitely see it inphoto editing.
Gary Pageau (12:35):
So it's sort of independent of a specific
platform.
Almost it's like you're givingit a task and then it's going to
go do the task independent ofspecific instructions.
Hans Hartman (12:50):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I think that's a great way ofsummarizing it.
And you, as a user, you don'tcare how it does it and what
kind of tools it uses.
Assuming it has access to thesetools, it can go on the web.
Maybe it only uses stuff thatis on your computer.
So that has created a lot ofbuzz in the technology world in
(13:15):
general.
Gary Pageau (13:16):
So it'd be almost like an example would be almost
like you know, I want to book myflights to Visual 1st.
I'd like to stay near themission district and the AI
knows what airlines I like tofly, where I'm flying from,
where my points are, what hotelsI like to stay at, and it would
just go do that.
Hans Hartman (13:35):
Yeah, exactly.
And so those kind of things arebeing developed outside our
industry and that is stuck.
You know, people in ourindustry to sort of notice like,
hey, you know, can we not doanything in our environment and
our goal?
You know, at this point it'snot that much of a trending
(13:57):
topic yet in our industry, butit will be in October, I am very
, very, very sure about it.
So we already have two fabulouspresenters lined up in a panel
specifically to that.
We had them speak once at avirtual edition during COVID
there.
But basically they do it withvideo and, along the lines of
(14:21):
what you just described, youknow, basically say, hey, this
is what I want.
Go find some stock photos wherethe video is a little choppy,
or get rid of the pauses.
I mean, figure out how to makethis video better.
So they actually have alreadysomething in place there.
And then the second one that wejust signed up what was it last
week is Eric Yang from TopazLabs.
(14:43):
Okay, who wants to do this in aphoto editing workflow solution
?
Gary Pageau (14:48):
Yeah.
Hans Hartman (14:49):
So we very much.
I mean, it's actually this isone of the panels normally.
You know it's very easy to fillin the panel there because you
know lots of potentialcandidates for particular topics
.
This was a harder one to fillin.
So we're really going out ofour way and asking hey, you know
what?
Are you already thinking aboutdeveloping an agentic AI
(15:10):
solution?
Is there something you canpublicly already talk about in
October, about in October?
I have no doubt that we'll havea full panel, meaning four
speakers coming up, especiallygiven the quality of the first
two.
But it's funny because it's,like I said, sort of percolating
.
It's beginning to createawareness.
Gary Pageau (15:32):
I'm sure there are a lot of people working on it.
It just may not be ready forprime time yet, right?
I mean that might be one of theissues.
Hans Hartman (15:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
They might just try it out alittle bit, have the smartest
engineers play with it over theweekend, then come up with some
ideas, but it's not primetimeyet, exactly.
So anyway.
So that's a Gentic AI and thatwill be a big, I think.
Well, you never know before aconference what will be sort of
(16:00):
the buzz at the conference, butI think this will spur a lot of
thinking.
Right, and the other topic I'mvery, very pleased that we can
finally really zoom into that isthis idea of we call it the
enduring appeal of retro.
So retro and vintage mean thatyou've seen all kind of things
(16:25):
happen in the past and, uh, lotsof naysayers maybe, including
myself at times.
Yeah, hey, you know what thisis a fad people will get tired
of.
You know, my photo looks, needsto look like a vintage photo.
Or why would I buy a film?
I mean, there's all thesebenefits of smartphones or
(16:46):
digital cameras.
So for the longest time, peoplethought you know what, yeah,
it's trendy five years, tenyears ago.
Or, you know, outside imaging,people buy LPs and record
players there.
That will come and go, butretro it keeps growing and
growing In our industry.
(17:07):
The biggest example of that isPolaroid, and then I would say,
in particular, instax howimportant that has become.
Sure, absolutely so.
We are very pleased to havethen the VP of Marketing, ashley
Reeder of Fujifilm, who shouldbe very specifically involved
with all the Instax marketingand those demographics and done
(17:31):
lots of research like why arepeople so interested?
You know, are they onlyyoungsters, are they also older
people?
I mean, there are lots ofquestions there that she will
share her light on.
Gary Pageau (17:43):
So that's one in our retro panel yeah, it's a
weird thing because it sort ofdoubles into the resurgence in
traditional film that hashappened over the last few years
.
It's the same idea.
People, I think of a certainage, who kind of lived through
that age and made the transitionto digital would think why
(18:06):
would you even go back?
I mean, I know photographerswho are like I'm never gonna
load a camera again in filmbecause I did that for 20 years
and I'm never doing that again,and uh.
But there's others who are likesaying you know, and I think it
even goes back to what we'retalking about, about
computational photography, rightwhen it almost makes the
pictures too good, where peoplewant the authentic experience of
(18:28):
imaging, right when you knowwhat's more authentic than an
instant print.
Hans Hartman (18:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
This resistance against toogood or too easy, that's part of
the allure.
There are even apps for a phone.
You take a photo but you cannotview it until 24 hours later
there's a few of those.
It attracts a certain audience.
Fujifilm came out with theirwhat is it?
The Half-X digital camera thatalso have an option that
(18:58):
actually delays you being ableto see too many photos at the
same time, right, and then goingback to film specifically.
So we also have Ken Curry, whoyou might know from your PMA
days, who is the general manageror president of uh rico pentax
(19:19):
nationwide, so he will talkabout.
I mean, they're basically theonly film camera company that's
coming out with new film camerasright, exactly of the old ones,
kind of doubled down on that.
Gary Pageau (19:31):
That's kind of their thing they are known for
is kind of that authentic sortof uh experience, sure yeah,
yeah.
Hans Hartman (19:38):
So I'm thrilled to hear that perspective, you know
, vis-a-vis or in conjunctionwith the Instax, because that
might be different demographics,different use cases, so so that
those are two interesting onesfor that panel.
What I'm also looking for isthen a smartphone, and there are
(19:59):
quite a few out there.
We'll have somebody lined upvery soon on that.
You know, a smartphone appdeveloper where you take your
photos with your iphone or yourandroid phone and then say, hey,
give me these vintage effectsso that photo also look as if it
was taken with a film camera.
Gary Pageau (20:15):
So that's in the, the smartphone world, as opposed
to yeah, you know it'sinteresting because the people
are doing that sort of thing.
I find Like Hipstamatic is oneof those, yeah and they really
push kind of the community sideof it.
Hans Hartman (20:30):
Yeah, fisco is another example.
Yeah, yeah, but part of their.
Gary Pageau (20:36):
I think their business model is not just the
authenticity piece or thevintage look, but also finding
other people who are part ofthat ethos.
Hans Hartman (21:05):
Yeah, that's old kind of photo, so we'll have.
We'll most likely have somebodyfrom the print world, somebody
from the app world.
We have the film camera fromPentax, we have the Instax for
the instant camera printersthere.
So we're really finally divinginto this retro theme, I think,
in a very big and exciting way.
(21:27):
Lots of people are veryinterested in that.
And then maybe another topic Ithink that we'll Well, actually
two.
There are two other topics.
Again, I was Two of the othertopics that we were covering in
a big way and, like I saidearlier, you never know
beforehand afterwards which ofthose three or four or five
(21:47):
things I'm mentioning now willbe the buzz of the, the culture.
So we'll see what that will be.
But another one that times wesort of touched upon is you know
how do all these videosolutions, whether it's from a
camera or an app world, you knowhow, how does video now gets a
(22:08):
place in the world of photos, sowe call it a photo and video
convergence and all.
Yeah, you see solutions thatlots of almost everybody who has
a photo solution now is atleast thinking, if not already,
has some kind of element of whatthey're doing.
Is videos as well, cameras.
Actually, what drives a lot ofcamera sales is not is also
(22:33):
having the video capabilitiesand the vlogging, etc.
So you have.
So you have cameras.
You have editing almost editingapp Almost every editing app or
software has both photos andvideo capabilities.
And you see it, even up toprinting, where you see more and
more finally, I would say, moreand more augmented reality
(22:56):
solutions being folded intoprinting.
So you have this nice photobook of your vacation, in your
case in in aruba.
You quote a book there, butthen you, you hold your camera
there or your smartphone thereand you, you, you click and then
you see this cute little videoand you were laying in a pool
and whatever you were doing,probably in conjunction with a
(23:18):
beer, but anyway.
So even the print world, whichnormally you would say, what do
they have to do with video?
But that's becoming part ofvisual storytelling and that's,
I think, important that also theprint world really thinks about
.
You don't want people to sayabout, the real way of visual
(23:38):
storytelling is videos and weare not part of that and you
will be left out there.
So even there, people arethinking about the place of
video.
So that panel will specificallytalk about how are these two
worlds merging?
Some of them start with photosand other videos, but there are
actually also some videosolutions.
We have Hypno in that panel.
They started with a videosolution first, and then there's
(24:02):
a way to get photos out of it,or Instax 360.
Or, excuse me, insta360, the360 camera.
They started with video, butyou can also make it very, very
easy to extract frames and youhave single photos there.
Gary Pageau (24:18):
So anyway, that's another property.
It's a 360 action cam and it'sactually quite a.
I use mostly in my lastvacation of Cuba.
I actually mostly use that andactually it's quite a good
stills camera.
Hans Hartman (24:29):
Yeah, it has.
All these guys are amazing.
We had them.
I mean, they've been around, Ithink, for 12 years or so and
they just went public.
Yeah, they went public with avaluation of $10 billion I don't
know if that's still the case,but really like totally amazing
there, where the valuation of aGoPro is a couple of hundred
(24:52):
million at this point.
So it totally blew them out ofthe water and we had them speak
when it was like a very earlystartup, like a three-year-old
startup.
They won the Best of Show, showand Tell Award and I'm very
pleased that one of theirco-founders, who is the global
VP of marketing, he will also bespeaking in this photo and
(25:13):
video panel.
So, anyway, that's going to bean exciting theme, like what do
we do with video?
For the guys who are coming outof the photo world, all we're
going to do with video can beyou know stay on the sideline
how we're going to incorporateit here.
Best of breed examples, sure?
Gary Pageau (25:30):
yeah, because it is one of those things where I
think you know it's interesting.
Even, like you know, instagramstarted out as a primarily a
still photo, but it didn'treally take off till they added
video.
Yeah, well, be real is addingit.
I mean, a bunch of people arestarting to like, trying to
realize that probably, you know,photos used to be what people
(25:52):
had to add to their platforms tomake them sticky, right.
I think video is what they haveto add to your platform to
actually make money with it.
Hans Hartman (26:01):
Yeah, and it's a different dynamic.
And that's part of what Ireally want to explore with
people who are way more into itthan I am in that panel is you
know, how do people, how do endusers make decisions, whether
they start with taking a photoor it's a video?
(26:21):
First kind of scenario.
It is a different demographics,it's a different in different
situations birthday parties, anddo you start with a video and
then somehow you make it veryeasy to get beautiful photos out
of that video and plus it's adifferent process, completely
Like if you spend any time atall looking at, like influencer
(26:43):
culture or people who havevideos.
Gary Pageau (26:46):
There's a whole visual language there in terms
of cuts and the way they werezooming in and starting with
that.
Hans Hartman (26:53):
It's not really instinctive, you know, and it's
it's almost like a visuallanguage you have to learn if
you want to be really good atsocial video yeah, yeah, if you
get to that level of serious uhyeah, which actually ties in not
meant as a bridge, I'm sure,but that ties into another this
(27:13):
is going to be the buzzafterwards of Visua 1st
presenters.
So we also have Lauder back.
We're very pleased in afireside chat session.
You and I know him from way wayback.
He was the editor-in-chief ofPC Magazine, but for people
maybe more recently, he was theCEO of the VidCon event, which
(27:38):
typically had between 50 and100,000 creators attending.
Every year sold it to Paramount.
So he's like Mr Creator Economy, knows a lot of where, yeah,
what is trending and use casesamong influencers.
Where is that going and what'sreally the difference between an
(28:02):
influencer and a creator?
So it's a video first kind ofworld, but photos also have a
place in that.
So we're gonna explore that oneas our fireside chat.
So it's one-on-one, actuallyit's one on two.
We always have two moderatorsthere, but we really, you know
(28:23):
we'll be able to tap into hisknowledge about where that world
of influences and creators aregoing.
Is it all hype?
Is it all low quality?
I mean, there's also a lot oflabels that have been put onto
that world in the past, but andto some extent they are correct,
(28:44):
to some extent they are not,and it's a very interesting
market if you can tap into it,because all these people
basically that's the definitionof a creator with a capital c
that is focused on definitionall of these creators do this
because they make money somehowout of their visuals.
(29:06):
So people say, hey, I'm youknow, whether it's through
YouTube enumeration or whateversponsorships of companies, etc.
If you make money out ofvisuals but it's photos or
videos or a combo of those, it'salso worth to spend some money
(29:26):
on the best possible tools.
So for our audience and itcould even be again, think about
some of your audience it couldeven be there is merchandise,
photo print, merchandise thatgoes with the video.
So even print fits in thatworld of creator or should at
(29:47):
least be aware of where theopportunity oh yeah, I mean,
that's a big.
Gary Pageau (29:50):
That's what amaze does it?
Right?
They connect creator economywith an output platform, right
yeah?
Hans Hartman (29:56):
and that's also a very interesting task.
Visual 1st presenter, the otherCEO.
Yeah, so the creator economy.
I think that could be the buzzof the conference.
The photo and video worldcombining could be the buzz.
Genetic AI, for sure.
And what else were we talkingabout?
Oh, and retro.
I think these are sort of themain topics at the conference.
Gary Pageau (30:20):
You've also got another fireside chat lined up
and that's kind of interesting,I think, to a lot of people who,
from the traditional world,want to hear that.
Hans Hartman (30:28):
Yeah, Tom Yusoff I guess most people now know him
was in the board of Shutterflyfor quite a while, actually
during the time that Shutterflyalso bought Lifetouch.
(30:48):
He was also interim CEO ofShutterfly for a while, so he
knows the print world reallywell, especially in combination
with where RPI is now.
He was also a successful.
He has his own boutiqueinvestment company, so he knows
investing and the business partreal well.
He was a VP of Flickr in thepast, quite a while ago, and he
(31:11):
also was the founder I think itwas called Photodisc.
That then merged with Getty, sohe was at the roots of what
became the current Getty.
So he knows stock photography,has lots of opinions about that.
He knows both the B2C and theB2B part of photo printing.
(31:32):
Have it the shutter fly, RPIcombo, and then the more
advanced photographer world withFlickr.
So I'm not quite sure what wewill do.
Well, you've got a lot there tocover.
And then the more advancedphotographer world with Flickr.
So I'm not quite sure what wewill do.
Gary Pageau (31:43):
Well, you've got a lot there to cover.
I mean you've scheduled an hour, hour and a half for that
session, right, Because there'sa lot there.
Hans Hartman (31:49):
Well, not totally, but yeah, it's one-on-one.
You can really dive into topicswith a single speaker pretty
rapidly, so there's lots withhim to talk about, and he's a
very smart person, so I'd loveto have him be on stage for the
first time at Vision 1st.
Gary Pageau (32:06):
Awesome and we can't bring this to a close
without mentioning the show.
Hans Hartman (32:09):
And tells yeah because we have a great MC for
that.
Gary Pageau (32:15):
Well, I'm a tiny jumper, is what?
Hans Hartman (32:17):
I am.
No, you did great last time forthe first time.
Gary Pageau (32:21):
No, let's talk a little bit about the format,
kind of what that is, because Ithink some people may not
realize the whole story, thatthere's awards that come from
these, there's recognition thatcomes from these and there's,
you know, people actually havebeen exited out or acquired
because of their show and tellpresentation.
Hans Hartman (32:38):
So talk a little bit about the format, what it
takes, yeah so, to start withthe last one, we have what we
call a hall of fame page on ourwebsite and I think we're like
22, maybe 23, asked show.
They're primarily some of themare in panel knowledge, but
they're primarily show and tellpresenters who spoke in the past
and then have since beenacquired.
(33:00):
So some of them have donereally well after a Visual 1st,
not necessarily because theywere discovered there, but it
also shows you have a good handin selecting show and tell
presenters there.
So what it is, it's four minutes, it's a live demo and four
minutes only yeah, exactly, wehave a clock and we have a very
strict mc who would kick you offstage if it goes on too long,
(33:24):
but it's four minutes.
It's not a pitch session, uh,so you don't have, you know,
powerpoints.
It's really a live demo.
Typically it's the founder or,if it's a larger company, the
product owner and they they showthings live in and explain
things in their own world whywhat they're showing is so
(33:44):
unique and so good and actuallythe interesting thing.
We talked a lot about the restof the agenda with the panels
and FISA chats, and we go out ofour way to get the best
possible speakers there, butultimately these live demo
sessions score the highest interms of our audience.
They love it.
(34:05):
There are three of themthroughout a day and a half
conference, so it's 30presenters all together.
People really remember becauseit was live.
Sometimes something goes wrong,whatever you know.
They can kind of click thecable into their phone or their
computer.
Gary Pageau (34:23):
Or the internet doesn't work, yeah, whatever.
Hans Hartman (34:25):
And our audience I mean most of us are technology
developers, so they're veryforgiving in that sense.
But these people really love it, they eat it up and it's a
great way.
You can do also your search onthe internet and you you read
about these app developers.
It's not the same experience tosee this happening live and
(34:47):
have the right people who reallyknow these apps uh, explain
this and then you can chat withthem during the reception or
whatever, do more than that.
So so those are great sessions.
They're sort of the highlightof our conference.
Again, it's sort of interestingthat that scores the highest, no
matter what kind of educationand trend analysis we do on the
(35:08):
other ones.
But that's an integral part andwe really go out of our way
each year and I want to stressthat because I would say myself
as being the primary recruiterof this I would save myself a
lot of time by just, you know,asking people who have presented
in the past hey, can you showwhatever is new on your end
(35:29):
again this year and fill it upin no time at 30, because
everybody appreciates theexposure.
There's no extra charge, it'sjust having a regular ticket
there.
What we do is go out of our wayto get lots and lots of folks
that have never attended theconference, have never spoken
before, and show their stuff.
So we always bring a lot offresh blood, lots of innovative
(35:50):
developers that are just comingout of the woodworks bring them
on stage.
So that's exciting and that'swhat the audience appreciates.
Gary Pageau (35:59):
And it does have an awards component to it.
Hans Hartman (36:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks for saying that.
Yeah, so we have fourindependent jury members this
year.
The three that are alreadysigned up is because, well,
kathy nelson, who a lot ofpeople in the audience also know
as being the founder ceo of thePhoto Managers, so she knows
that world.
We have, from the financialside, rudy Berger, who is the
(36:25):
founder of Woodside Capital, apretty large investment bank,
m&a bank in Silicon Valley.
And then the third Show TellAwards person is Anna Dixon.
She's the VP of ContentStrategy at Shutterstock and was
Google in the past.
(36:46):
She was also a director ofphotography at Wall Street
Journal and with Huffington Post, so she has a great, great
background from the high-qualityphoto perspective.
So she looks at tools from thatperspective.
So it's a very varied set ofjudges and basically you know we
have four awards.
They're trophies, there's nomoney involved in it, but we do
(37:08):
publicity.
You can be best of show.
Like I said, insight360 gotthat very early on in their
lifetime.
There's a best technology award, there's a best business
potential award and then there'ssort of an award for whatever
reason that the judges feel weneed to highlight these guys and
it's called a specialrecognition award.
Gary Pageau (37:28):
And the only way to experience Visual 1st is in
person, because it's notrecorded Correct.
No recaps or video clips orwhatever.
And no recaps or video clips orwhatever.
So where can people go to getinformation about attending the
Visual 1st conference, which youhave to go to?
Hans Hartman (37:47):
Thanks, I agree.
Yeah, absolutely like it forcespeople to come, but it it.
It also allows people,particularly the panels vice.
I suggest to be so much likesnapchat in the old days.
You can totally express youropinions, you share it with this
(38:10):
intimate community.
There you don't have to think,oh, my boss or the board members
will look at this two yearsfrom now and I said one word
wrong and and I'm in troublethere.
So it's we.
We try to encourage spontaneous, intuitive, deep conversations.
That's, that's one reason.
The second reason also, the,the true value of experience,
(38:31):
Visual 1st, is doing thatnetworking in person as well.
So, without further ado.
So the website isvisualfirstbiz and it's visual,
and then the number one, stbiz,and you see the program, you see
the bios of the presenters andlots of other information there,
and it will be held October28th in the afternoon, except
(38:55):
the coffee morning starts earlywith Gary, you know, cut on
being there and there's also theWomen in Imaging lunch.
Yeah, which is right afterGary's coffee.
So if you are a female attendee, you not only have free coffee
from Gary, you get the lunch,which is a great way for female
(39:15):
attendees, which areunfortunately still by far the
minority in our industry andalso at our conference.
But they have a way to do theirown networking and they very,
very much appreciate that.
We've done this several yearsin a row now.
So they will have theirluncheon and then the program
starts at 1.30 sharp on the 28th.
(39:36):
At the end of the day,reception, and then an all-day
program on the 29th and alsoreception.
We call it theon-your-way-outth.
At the end of the day,reception, and then an all-day
program on the 29th and alsoreception, or we call it the on
your way out reception at theend awesome well.
Gary Pageau (39:46):
Thank you for your time.
Looking forward to seeing youoctober 28th and 29th in san
francisco.
Looking forward to anothergreat conference likewise.
Hans Hartman (39:55):
Well, thanks very much for uh helping to spread
the word and uh doing this showand tells coming up.
Thank you, take care, all right, take care.
Erin Manning (40:04):
Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixel
Society podcast.
Read more great stories andsign up for the newsletter at
wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.
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