January 16, 2025 • 26 mins
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Discover how resilience and creativity blend in the world of photography with Lesli Lane, an inspiring third-generation photographer from Studio 13 in Indianapolis. Lane shares her journey from a family legacy in portrait and wedding photography to her unique niche in corporate and commercial photography. Her background as a national ice skating competitor has honed her adaptability and competitive spirit, guiding her through the challenges of an industry that demands both creative vision and business savvy. Learn about her innovative strategies, from embracing new technologies to building a robust team, all while maintaining a strong client focus.
Join us as we unravel the complexities of balancing the artistic and entrepreneurial sides of photography. Lane offers her insights into the evolving commercial photography sector, where the affordability of high-quality equipment has intensified competition. She emphasizes the importance of nurturing personal relationships with clients, which has become even more crucial in the post-COVID business landscape. Networking platforms like Accelerant have been pivotal in her journey, offering B2B connections that differ from traditional groups like BNI. Discover how Lane is navigating the unpredictable market while ensuring her business's growth and sustainability.
In an intriguing exploration of expanding services, Lane discusses her strategic integration of drone technology into her offerings. By outsourcing this specialized skill, she enhances her portfolio with captivating aerial footage, especially for commercial real estate clients. The conversation extends to the impact of economic shifts on the industry and the role of AI, highlighting a g
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Hosted and produced by Gary Pageau
Edited by Olivia Pageau
Announcer: Erin Manning
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Manning (00:02):
Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the
photo imaging industry's leadingnews source.
Here's your host, Gary Pageau.
The Dead Pixels Society podcastis brought to you by Mediaclip,
Advertek Printing, andIndependent Photo Imagers.
Gary Pageau (00:18):
Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels
Society podcast.
I'm your host, Gary Pageau, andtoday we're joined by Lesle
Lane of Studio 13.
She's coming to us fromIndianapolis, Indiana.
She has a great story to tellus about family business,
third-generation business,building up a roster of
assistants and contractors inthe gig economy, and much, much
(00:39):
more.
Hi, Lesle, how are you?
Lesle Lane (00:42):
Hey, I'm doing great .
Thank you so much for having me.
Gary Pageau (00:52):
Lesle, you are a third generation photographer.
What kind of photography isthat?
Lesle Lane (00:53):
Where did that start and how did you get here?
So I'm a corporate photographerworking in the marketing and
advertising space here inIndianapolis.
It is an incarnation of mymother and stepfather's business
many years ago and then, ofcourse, my grandparents.
They did portrait weddings downin Columbus, georgia.
So when my mom and I relocatedup here, she married a
commercial photographer.
up here she is a fine artphotographer in her own right
(01:15):
and also ran the business, andnow I have a similar business
model to what they did, but I'vegiven it my own twist.
Gary Pageau (01:24):
I thought I detected a Southern accent there
.
So what is it that brought youinto the business?
Because there are people whoare in the family business and
they usually do one of twothings, right.
They usually hey, I wantnothing to do with it, I'm going
to do my own thing, or I'mgoing to do the same sort of
thing.
Like you said, you're doing alittle different.
(01:45):
You're not doing fine artphotography.
What appealed, as a business,to photography for you?
Lesle Lane (01:53):
Well, my mother tells a story that I had a
camera in my hand by the time Iwas six.
And I actually did, and I havethat very first roll of film.
So I know she's telling thetruth.
But really I loved photographyfrom a very, very young age.
My parents drug me all over theplace because, as mom being a
fine art photographer, we weretraveling to different places
around Indiana and I wasn't realkeen on that.
(02:14):
And so by the time I became ofage and I was in my late teens,
early 20s, my father did notreally believe that a woman
could be a commercialphotographer, because that's
what boys did.
And so he sent me to be trainedin portrait wedding, which I did
not care for, and sounfortunately, my stepfather.
He became very ill and thechoice was made Either I took
(02:35):
over the business or it wasgoing to close.
And so, at 22 years old, I tookover my parents' commercial
photography business and workedthrough the trials of coming
from film, going through thedigital transition, recessions,
bombings of Twin Towers, covid,and that's how I got here today.
Gary Pageau (02:56):
But you also had some experience as a competitive
athlete.
Talk a little bit about howthat and what that brings to
your business little bit abouthow that and what that brings to
your business.
Lesle Lane (03:07):
Yes, I was not an Olympic bound athlete, but I was
a national ice skatingcompetitor for many, many years
and as an individual whereyou're just pushing for
excellence every day and dealingwith sometimes things aren't
fair, sometimes you should winwhen you shouldn't, and
sometimes you win when youshouldn't I really every single
day, I know that that mentalityof stand back up, which is the
(03:30):
code that they all stand to inice skating get back up.
I know for a fact that it hashelped me through all the
transitions that my career inphotography has had in front of
me.
Gary Pageau (03:41):
Plus, it's a lot of early mornings right.
Yes it is.
Lesle Lane (03:45):
Ice skating and architecture about the same.
Gary Pageau (03:49):
So talk a little bit, if you could, about what
you've had to do to keep yourbusiness competitive, because
commercial photography, as Iunderstand it, you know you're
dealing with the possibility ofyour commercial clients bringing
the work in-house, havingphotographer of their own so
they're not outsourcing as much,or you have all this, you know,
stock photography and othertools they can use.
(04:11):
So what has made you staycompetitive with your clients?
And you've said earlier, you'vegot national clients and
international clients who'vebeen able to grow beyond
Indianapolis.
Lesle Lane (04:24):
Well, I just think that, having a pioneer family so
you know my grandparentschanged from black and white
film to color film and then, bythe time I came into the
business, digital was coming ofage and we were the first no, we
were the second company inIndiana to buy those big digital
cameras that cost a fortune,trying to stay ahead of what the
(04:47):
innovations mean and thenseparate myself by more than
just good photography, because,in my opinion, somebody is going
to look at your website, lookat your portfolio, and you're
either going to be their styleor you're not going to be their
style and it all starts on thatopinion or you're not going to
(05:08):
be their style and it all startson that opinion.
Then, if you give them otherthings and you work with them on
yes, but I can quote youquickly and I can shoot the job,
get you proofs or final imagesquickly oh, I'm not available.
I have a team of people thatcan help you.
That's really how I'mdifferentiating myself is by
giving them all the pieces ofthe puzzle that it seems like
some of that is really fallingaway.
(05:29):
So you're right, commercialphotography is highly
competitive, but companies aregetting increasingly frustrated
that they're not able to findbusiness professionals who are
also photographers.
That's becoming very difficult.
I'm running into it a lot.
Gary Pageau (05:44):
Yeah, I can see that because we've seen it
definitely in the portraitwedding side.
Right, as the availability ofDSLRs and mirrorless cameras
have become far more affordable.
Right, and even back in the day, you know those high-end
digital cameras cost $20,000,$30,000, right, and nowadays
it's, you can buy one at BestBuy and you can call yourself a
professional photographer.
Right, and we all know there'smore to it than that.
(06:04):
So you're seeing that on thecommercial side, right, sort of
the competition with the peoplewho put out their jingle, which,
again, there's nothing wrongwith that in terms of, hey,
that's how the world works,right, competition is a great
thing, but it's something youhave to accommodate in the
marketplace.
Lesle Lane (06:18):
I do on a daily basis and just try to go for the
clients that you know there isa place for everybody.
Photography is one of the mostwonderful professions, I can't
say enough about it.
But I'm looking for the clientsthat not only does their image
of their business matter, buthaving somebody they can count
(06:39):
on matters, because they've gotmuch bigger fish to fry than
dealing with four differentphotographers in a given year.
Gary Pageau (06:46):
Right, yeah, cause they have to reach, almost
retrain them right on what theirlook, their expectations are.
So that's part of your businessmodel, right?
It's sort of the personalrelationship side.
Lesle Lane (06:55):
Absolutely, and that that is something that I didn't
know.
This as a young person at allgetting into the industry.
I mean, I was so busy justtrying to figure out how to take
pictures on an 8x10 camerabecause we did have clients that
required it I didn't have timeto really understand networking
and building relationships withpeople and that that actually
(07:16):
has been.
It has become a greater part ofmy business the referral
network.
Then you're not going to getbusiness just falling into your
lap.
It's just not going to happen.
Gary Pageau (07:25):
Right.
Is it harder now Because somuch more of it is online?
You know, I mean, you've beenthrough COVID, right, and that
changed a lot of people'sbusiness models.
It changed a lot of how peopleyou know even network or get
business.
You know used to be you go to achamber of commerce event or a
trade show or a business expo orsomething like that, and you'd
(07:45):
either have a booth or you'dwork the room and you'd get, you
know, talk to 10 people, maybeget the opportunity to bid right
.
Has that changed in thepost-COVID world?
Lesle Lane (07:55):
Actually, it started changing for me about five or
six years ago.
I joined a business developmentplatform called Accelerant.
So they are a national, theyhave chapters all across the
country and they're industryexclusive.
And we meet together not onlyas a large group several hundred
people come together everyquarter for a breakfast but then
(08:23):
on a monthly basis in differentspecialties to try to hand each
other those referrals, thosemeaningful introductions.
And so really coming on boardwith Accelerant changed my whole
outlook prior to COVID.
But then, when COVID hit, I hada group full of highly trained
business leaders in the citythat I could call and find out
hey, what is this COVID thinggoing to do to us?
How is this going to affect abusiness like mine?
And I could have meetings withpeople in HR that are saying,
(08:44):
hey, they're firing or they'relaying off.
No, our people are keeping.
And it gave me that intelligentinsight into the economy,
because we all know photographyis 100% dependent on what the
economy is doing.
So I feel like that joiningthat business development
platform really gave me thedirection I needed.
Now I've heard of like groupslike that.
There's BNI, there's differentgroups like that.
Joining that businessdevelopment platform really gave
me the direction I needed.
Gary Pageau (09:03):
Now I've heard of like groups like that there's
BNI, there's different groupslike that.
What's the commitment for thatparticular group?
Lesle Lane (09:10):
I'm not allowed to share the financial commitment
but the difference between anaccelerant, a BNI, and the other
one I've heard of is Goldstaris those BNI groups.
Those Goldstar groups they'renormally B2C, so they're
normally passing business toconsumers instead of trying to
get in with the business.
Where Accelerant is mainly B2B.
(09:32):
There may be a couple of B2C,but not much, and they keep a
database of every single companythat's had some kind of
connectivity, and so if I'mlooking for a specific company,
I can just email theadministrator and say, hey, do
we have anybody that can connectme with this company?
And they'll tell me right away.
So it's a much deeper dive.
Gary Pageau (09:53):
Okay, I've seen BNI around and I've been to a
couple of things and things and,like you said, it's very and
it's a smaller scale, it's morelocal, right.
So, that's wrong with that, butit's a smaller scale, it's more
local right.
So nothing wrong with that, butit's just different.
I was just curious what thedifference between this group
you're in and BNI and Goldstarand those are, because I know a
lot of people have had successwith BNI and those.
You bet, yeah, so you've had tomorph your business again in
(10:20):
recent years because you got toobusy, you had too much business
, so how did you cope with that?
Lesle Lane (10:27):
Well, I just, I did not like losing anything.
Gary Pageau (10:30):
You know this is a business.
This is a business Going back tothe competitive nature of you,
right?
Lesle Lane (10:36):
Yeah, so this is a business where you go from
thinking I'm going to die beforeI get all my work done to
wondering if you're ever goingto shoot another job again in
your life and so turning thatbusiness away, knowing that most
of the time if I go out andshoot a job, I'm going to get
repeat business from it.
I don't really lose clientsvery often, unless there's a
(10:57):
change in leadership or you knowthe business goes somewhere
else.
So I already was working withfreelance assistants and I knew
that they had some shootingskills in their own right, and
so I just went ahead and startedcultivating those and then, as
that's, I've been doing that forabout three years now, and then
I started needing a lot ofdrone work and people are like
(11:21):
you need to learn to shoot drone.
I'm like why I'm so good atwhat I do?
Why do I need to learn to shootdrone?
And so I added that to myrepertoire this year was to have
an independent contractor whoworks for me and handles all of
my drone work for me.
Gary Pageau (11:36):
You know, I keep seeing so much with drones these
days and it is interestingbecause it is photography or
imaging or whatever we want todo, especially like in real
estate.
I see in commercial real estatea lot and things like that, but
it is a different skill set.
So I kind of like your approachof you know, I'm going to offer
(11:56):
the service, I'm not going todo it myself.
What about things like, youknow, liability and things like
that?
Who's covered in that case?
You know, let's say, a dronecrashes on a car, right, who's
liable for that if you'reproviding the offering?
Lesle Lane (12:10):
Yeah, it's so interesting to me because I've
learned a lot about it since Ibrought him on my team.
He has to have his ownliability because of the
dangerousness of the dronegetting into places.
It shouldn't.
I was also unaware that the FAAactually knows every single
drone that starts up and if youdidn't do a pre-flight check-in,
(12:32):
they will shut your drone down.
Gary Pageau (12:35):
Really, I mean, there must be commercial drones,
not just like the ones you buyfrom Best Buy.
Lesle Lane (12:40):
I'm sure there are commercial drones, but yeah, so
the one that we are working withit will be shut down by the FAA
.
I also was shooting at a largeuniversity in northern Indiana a
couple weeks ago and it gavesecurity a notice that we were
on site and they did not know wewere going to be on site.
And so here comes securitywanting to know what we're doing
(13:02):
, flying a drone over theircampus.
So it's been a very interestinglearning curve.
But because of the nature ofthe drone photography, we have
to not only have my liabilitypolicy that covers it does cover
some contractors, but becauseof the nature of what my drone
guy does, he has to have his ownso what other types of um?
Gary Pageau (13:24):
imaging, I guess, is the word we're going to use,
because drone is probably yougot, probably got some video in
there, you probably got somestills in there you know your,
your corp work seems to be moreof a, you know, still still
photography, still imaging, buthave you had to add video and
other things?
And this is that the type ofwork you're contracting out?
Lesle Lane (13:43):
Yes, so my drone person is actually a
videographer as well, and sowhat we try to do the drone work
see, especially in thecommercial real estate community
, a lot of people own drones now, so a lot of engineers and
architects and all those peoplethat we work for, and so they
don't need as much as they did,say, maybe, five years ago, but
(14:03):
what they do love is awalkthrough.
So what we've been doing sinceI landed my drone person on our
team is we do the drone work andthen mix it in with a
walkthrough of the building andwe give them maybe a 90 second
or 120 second reel that they canthen put on social media to
show off their projects.
We're not doing productionvideos.
(14:25):
I have no desire to competewith the people that are so good
at the production work.
We just add it on as a servicefor the clients that we're
already working with.
Gary Pageau (14:35):
I'm sure the word's getting around right.
I mean, I'm sure you're gettingreferrals from that.
Lesle Lane (14:40):
It's picking up and again, thank goodness that my
reputation is pretty good in thecommunity.
I haven't screwed up too muchin my lifetime A couple of times
.
I'm not going to tell thosestories because it does happen.
I'm not human, I mean I'm notinhuman but people know that I'm
going to take care of them.
If they come to me for a joband they use drone and they use
my person, that I'm going todeliver.
Gary Pageau (15:03):
So let's talk about the other piece, because you've
got eight other people right onthe team, right?
So Do you feel like you have tokeep them engaged and find
another enough work for them,Because, even though they're not
full time employees, they stillhave an obligation to you and
you have an obligation to them,right?
What's that like as a businessowner?
Lesle Lane (15:24):
Well, it's much better than having somebody on a
W-2, I can tell you that it's alittle bit easier in that they
all know that.
You know, when I go out and Inetwork and I work with people,
I'm selling the company.
But there's a couple of thingsthat do make it a little bit
easier.
So, like I don't do drone work,I don't do video, so anything
(15:44):
that comes my way my guy isgoing to get.
I also don't shoot eventphotography.
I don't enjoy it, it's not mygift, so every event that comes
to me goes out to my team.
Then the other thing is is thatmy goal is to grow this business
to such an extent that myfreelancers take up 40 percent
of the general revenue of thecompany, because I'm a lovely
(16:06):
middle aged woman we won't sayhow old that is and I'm looking
to maybe not grow my part of thebusiness as much, but I am
looking to grow there.
So they're grateful for that.
Most photographers I'm notspeaking for everybody, so
nobody get mad at me Mostphotographers do not like the
business aspect of it.
They don't like the sales andthe networking and the invoicing
(16:27):
and the accounting.
I love that part, so I even gotmy master's in doing it, so I
actually have the joy of lovingboth sides of the camera.
Gary Pageau (16:36):
Well, you just touched on a great point,
because I've seen that aroundthe industry a lot.
I mean not just for shooters,photographers, but also on the
retail side or the photo labside, where you know they got
into business because they lovephotography and they love, you
know, being a retailer orwhatever, but then all this
other stuff that comes upbecomes a distraction and they
(16:58):
almost neglect it or they don'twant to deal with it, or they
delegate it and you knowwhatever and they're not
involved and then they, thenthings happen and they don't
know what's going on.
So I think that's a great pointthat you've got to know both of
that, both of that you know.
It is interesting when I seephotographers, you know, get
into photography and then theydiscover the whole.
You know 70% of their businessis doing non photography stuff.
(17:18):
Right, it's yes right.
A friend of mine is aphotographer who said you know,
nothing kills your love ofphotography faster than a
photography business.
Lesle Lane (17:26):
No kidding, no, there's, that's the truth.
Gary Pageau (17:30):
So why do you think you have sort of that dual
perspective on the business?
Right, you enjoy the shooting,obviously you like to do it,
you're good at it, but you alsolike the business side of it,
which is not typical.
Lesle Lane (17:45):
Well, I'll tell you the story.
It's funny to me.
My dad, my stepdad, that ownedthis business when I was 12, he
gave me a checking account tohandle all of my ice skating
bills because he got tired ofpaying them.
And so at a very young age I hadto ask him every month for a
certain amount of money.
I had to show him a monthlybudget of what my expenses were
(18:06):
going to be, and then, if I didnot stay within that budget, he
led me to believe that I wasgoing to balance checks and I
was going to be in very bigtrouble.
And so from a very young age Ihad to learn all those things
that go into running a business.
And so when I came into thebusiness, I actually did not
graduate with a degree inphotography or business.
I went back to school for mymaster's to get that degree in
(18:27):
business, and so I enjoyed it.
They used to do it all by hand.
Imagine that that they wouldhave to sit down and they called
it the breakdown.
My dad did and you would haveto put photography and here's
how much money, film and here'show much money, and you had to
do it all by pencil andeverything had to match.
And so doing accounting on thecomputer is so much easier and I
(18:48):
find it enjoyable.
Gary Pageau (18:50):
So and there's all kinds of honestly for
photographers.
Now it's almost like the dreamworld, because you've got all
these platforms out there thatare, you know, basically run
your business for you in some,in some extent.
Lesle Lane (19:03):
Yeah, and it's funny , there are so many tools.
But if you don't, if you're notclear headed to know the way
through, here's how I get thejob.
Here's how I bid the job.
Here's how I bid the job.
Here's how I shoot the job.
Here's how I deliver the job.
Here's how I build the job.
If you don't have that A to D,e, f mentality like I do or
(19:24):
other photographers who runsuccessful businesses do.
You just can't teach it becausea lot of people just really
hate that side of it.
Gary Pageau (19:33):
But it is far easier than it used to be.
I mean, that's what I findfascinating is you have these
amazing tools for invoicing andcontact management and all these
things which you know in theold days that was all by hand.
It's amazing, and a lot of themare very specific to running a
photo studio, which is kind ofnice.
Lesle Lane (19:52):
They are.
Yeah, there's really not muchof an excuse anymore, because
there are definite tools to helppeople that don't like it.
Definitely, I agree.
Gary Pageau (20:00):
So you also like to help other people with their
business.
Tell me some of the ways thatpeople have worked with you or
approached you, and how do youdiagnose how you can help them?
Lesle Lane (20:12):
Well, first and foremost, I'm never afraid to
admit my failures.
So much of what has happened tome in my life is because I did
it wrong and I had to figure outa different way.
The other thing I figured out,especially over the last five to
seven years, is that everyphotographer is like a unique
thumbprint.
Yes, we may all be competingagainst each other, but we don't
all shoot the same.
We don't all shoot the same.
(20:33):
We don't all have the samepersonalities, and so I'm never
afraid to sit down and talk to aphotographer about their
business, because I had myparents, I had my grandparents,
I had plenty of people behind methat I could be a sounding
board for, and so some of myyounger photographers.
They sit down with me and theyask about pricing and they ask
(20:53):
about how I do my processing.
You know how do I get myselffrom point A to point F, and I
don't hesitate to tell them Ihave.
I have no reason not to behelpful.
Gary Pageau (21:04):
Because that is one of the things I think that I
think, in the photographyindustry specifically, there's a
lot of sharing and interactiongoes on.
There's a lot of sharing andinteraction goes on.
If you go to the bigconferences, people will get up
there and tell you exactly howthey do it, just because they
know.
You know, again, the customercontact piece is really the glue
that will keep you the business100% Going forward.
(21:25):
What do you see happening withcommercial photography?
Because, like, for example, youknow, I keep hearing different
things that are happening in thebusiness world that when I
think of someone like you withina commercial photography
business, it might affect them.
Like you know, people you knowgoing either totally remote or
they're starting to bring peopleback.
And there's, you know, all thischallenge happening with retail
(21:45):
right, with retail businessesclosing.
So you know, retail commercialreal estate is a problem or a
challenge, if you will.
Retail commercial real estateis a problem or a challenge, if
you will.
So what are you kind of seeingin the economy right now that
you're keeping an eye on in thatbusiness?
Lesle Lane (21:59):
Yeah, so a lot of my work is architecture and so
that can include commercial realestate, buildings and things
like that.
And if you follow the AIA,which is the architecture group,
you'll see that architecturalbuilding has been down several
cycles in a row and architectureis normally a two year piece
where I won't shoot a job fortwo years after they actually
(22:20):
get the job because they've gotto design it and build it.
So I'm anticipating that twoyears from now we're going to
see a significant slowdown inthe architecture space here in
Indianapolis.
We have had a real shift in thedowntown dynamic of Indianapolis
where people always wanted tobe downtown and since COVID hit
and people are coming back tothe office, they're almost all
skedaddling, you know, to thesuburbs of Indianapolis rather
(22:42):
than downtown.
So we're going to have to havesome kind of economic
development to push some fundsinto the downtown Indianapolis
area to continue to, you know,try to keep people down there.
So those two thingseconomically are certainly going
to affect us.
Now I'd be remiss if I did notmention AI.
I think that in commercialphotography we would be silly
not to bring that topic up.
But many people don'tunderstand, if you're not in the
(23:05):
industry, that Photoshop hashad an AI component for a decade
.
They don't understand this.
I've been circling stuff anderasing stuff for years, but
what I am noticing on the retailside of when I'm shooting
product is that retailers aregiving manufacturers pushback on
(23:26):
AI driven images.
They are absolutely sendingpackaging back to the
manufacturer and saying redothese packages with real
photography.
This isn't real.
Well, that's good for me andI've run into that twice this
year where that's been thepushback.
I've also started to run intopeople who, if I over, retouch a
(23:47):
headshot, because I think thisyear I'm over 780 headshots this
year that I've shot this year.
If I over retouch them in anyway, they will send them back
and say don't make me look, aigenerated Now.
Luckily, I've only had thathappen two or three times this
year, but I think that I thinkthat AI is going to continue to
be an amazing tool for ourindustry.
I'm hoping it doesn't replaceme till I retire and I don't
(24:10):
want to be naive and to say that, but I think it's just going to
continue to be the companiesthat are driven by authenticity,
the companies that are drivenby transparency.
They're still going to needphotography that reflects those
corporate motives.
Gary Pageau (24:25):
Yeah, I think you're right, because I go to a
lot of conferences where I talkabout AI and it's definitely a
tool that's been in use for along time in the imaging
industry right.
We've been using it forenhancing images and doing this,
you know, before it becametrendy, people were, you know,
have been using AI.
So I think the authenticitypiece actually is a point of
differentiation, because peoplecan spot AI stuff.
(24:47):
Where I think it's going tomake a big impact, I think is in
stock photography or in catalogphotography, right, where you
can swap out AI models for ashirt and, you know, on a
website very easily, you know.
So I think that type ofphotography is going to be
impacted, but, you know, takingpictures of real people in real
places doing real things, Ithink is not going to change.
Lesle Lane (25:09):
I hope you're right.
I'm ready for it.
Gary Pageau (25:14):
Lesle, where can people go to get more
information about you and yourbusiness down there in
Indianapolis?
Lesle Lane (25:21):
Absolutely so.
You can reach me atStudio13Onlinecom.
That is our website,studio13onlinecom, and you can
hear all about my family storyunder the legacy button.
If you want to learn about allthree generations of us.
You can also find us onFacebook, instagram, linkedin,
and you can find me personallyon LinkedIn as well.
(25:42):
Lesle, without an I L E S L E LA N E.
Gary Pageau (25:46):
Lesle, without an I .
It's been great talking to youand I look forward to meeting
you in person sometime.
Lesle Lane (25:52):
I hope so, Gary.
It's been a pleasure.
Erin Manning (25:55):
Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixels
Society podcast.
Read more great stories andsign up for the newsletter at
wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.
Welcome to the Dead Pixel Society podcast, the
photo imaging industry's leadingnews source.
Here's your host, Gary Pageau.
The Dead Pixels Society podcastis brought to you by Mediaclip,
Advertek Printing, andIndependent Photo Imagers.
Gary Pageau (00:18):
Hello again and welcome to the Dead Pixels
Society podcast.
I'm your host, Gary Pageau, andtoday we're joined by Lesle
Lane of Studio 13.
She's coming to us fromIndianapolis, Indiana.
She has a great story to tellus about family business,
third-generation business,building up a roster of
assistants and contractors inthe gig economy, and much, much
(00:39):
more.
Hi, Lesle, how are you?
Lesle Lane (00:42):
Hey, I'm doing great .
Thank you so much for having me.
Gary Pageau (00:52):
Lesle, you are a third generation photographer.
What kind of photography isthat?
Lesle Lane (00:53):
Where did that start and how did you get here?
So I'm a corporate photographerworking in the marketing and
advertising space here inIndianapolis.
It is an incarnation of mymother and stepfather's business
many years ago and then, ofcourse, my grandparents.
They did portrait weddings downin Columbus, georgia.
So when my mom and I relocatedup here, she married a
commercial photographer.
up here she is a fine artphotographer in her own right
(01:15):
and also ran the business, andnow I have a similar business
model to what they did, but I'vegiven it my own twist.
Gary Pageau (01:24):
I thought I detected a Southern accent there
.
So what is it that brought youinto the business?
Because there are people whoare in the family business and
they usually do one of twothings, right.
They usually hey, I wantnothing to do with it, I'm going
to do my own thing, or I'mgoing to do the same sort of
thing.
Like you said, you're doing alittle different.
(01:45):
You're not doing fine artphotography.
What appealed, as a business,to photography for you?
Lesle Lane (01:53):
Well, my mother tells a story that I had a
camera in my hand by the time Iwas six.
And I actually did, and I havethat very first roll of film.
So I know she's telling thetruth.
But really I loved photographyfrom a very, very young age.
My parents drug me all over theplace because, as mom being a
fine art photographer, we weretraveling to different places
around Indiana and I wasn't realkeen on that.
(02:14):
And so by the time I became ofage and I was in my late teens,
early 20s, my father did notreally believe that a woman
could be a commercialphotographer, because that's
what boys did.
And so he sent me to be trainedin portrait wedding, which I did
not care for, and sounfortunately, my stepfather.
He became very ill and thechoice was made Either I took
(02:35):
over the business or it wasgoing to close.
And so, at 22 years old, I tookover my parents' commercial
photography business and workedthrough the trials of coming
from film, going through thedigital transition, recessions,
bombings of Twin Towers, covid,and that's how I got here today.
Gary Pageau (02:56):
But you also had some experience as a competitive
athlete.
Talk a little bit about howthat and what that brings to
your business little bit abouthow that and what that brings to
your business.
Lesle Lane (03:07):
Yes, I was not an Olympic bound athlete, but I was
a national ice skatingcompetitor for many, many years
and as an individual whereyou're just pushing for
excellence every day and dealingwith sometimes things aren't
fair, sometimes you should winwhen you shouldn't, and
sometimes you win when youshouldn't I really every single
day, I know that that mentalityof stand back up, which is the
(03:30):
code that they all stand to inice skating get back up.
I know for a fact that it hashelped me through all the
transitions that my career inphotography has had in front of
me.
Gary Pageau (03:41):
Plus, it's a lot of early mornings right.
Yes it is.
Lesle Lane (03:45):
Ice skating and architecture about the same.
Gary Pageau (03:49):
So talk a little bit, if you could, about what
you've had to do to keep yourbusiness competitive, because
commercial photography, as Iunderstand it, you know you're
dealing with the possibility ofyour commercial clients bringing
the work in-house, havingphotographer of their own so
they're not outsourcing as much,or you have all this, you know,
stock photography and othertools they can use.
(04:11):
So what has made you staycompetitive with your clients?
And you've said earlier, you'vegot national clients and
international clients who'vebeen able to grow beyond
Indianapolis.
Lesle Lane (04:24):
Well, I just think that, having a pioneer family so
you know my grandparentschanged from black and white
film to color film and then, bythe time I came into the
business, digital was coming ofage and we were the first no, we
were the second company inIndiana to buy those big digital
cameras that cost a fortune,trying to stay ahead of what the
(04:47):
innovations mean and thenseparate myself by more than
just good photography, because,in my opinion, somebody is going
to look at your website, lookat your portfolio, and you're
either going to be their styleor you're not going to be their
style and it all starts on thatopinion or you're not going to
(05:08):
be their style and it all startson that opinion.
Then, if you give them otherthings and you work with them on
yes, but I can quote youquickly and I can shoot the job,
get you proofs or final imagesquickly oh, I'm not available.
I have a team of people thatcan help you.
That's really how I'mdifferentiating myself is by
giving them all the pieces ofthe puzzle that it seems like
some of that is really fallingaway.
(05:29):
So you're right, commercialphotography is highly
competitive, but companies aregetting increasingly frustrated
that they're not able to findbusiness professionals who are
also photographers.
That's becoming very difficult.
I'm running into it a lot.
Gary Pageau (05:44):
Yeah, I can see that because we've seen it
definitely in the portraitwedding side.
Right, as the availability ofDSLRs and mirrorless cameras
have become far more affordable.
Right, and even back in the day, you know those high-end
digital cameras cost $20,000,$30,000, right, and nowadays
it's, you can buy one at BestBuy and you can call yourself a
professional photographer.
Right, and we all know there'smore to it than that.
(06:04):
So you're seeing that on thecommercial side, right, sort of
the competition with the peoplewho put out their jingle, which,
again, there's nothing wrongwith that in terms of, hey,
that's how the world works,right, competition is a great
thing, but it's something youhave to accommodate in the
marketplace.
Lesle Lane (06:18):
I do on a daily basis and just try to go for the
clients that you know there isa place for everybody.
Photography is one of the mostwonderful professions, I can't
say enough about it.
But I'm looking for the clientsthat not only does their image
of their business matter, buthaving somebody they can count
(06:39):
on matters, because they've gotmuch bigger fish to fry than
dealing with four differentphotographers in a given year.
Gary Pageau (06:46):
Right, yeah, cause they have to reach, almost
retrain them right on what theirlook, their expectations are.
So that's part of your businessmodel, right?
It's sort of the personalrelationship side.
Lesle Lane (06:55):
Absolutely, and that that is something that I didn't
know.
This as a young person at allgetting into the industry.
I mean, I was so busy justtrying to figure out how to take
pictures on an 8x10 camerabecause we did have clients that
required it I didn't have timeto really understand networking
and building relationships withpeople and that that actually
(07:16):
has been.
It has become a greater part ofmy business the referral
network.
Then you're not going to getbusiness just falling into your
lap.
It's just not going to happen.
Gary Pageau (07:25):
Right.
Is it harder now Because somuch more of it is online?
You know, I mean, you've beenthrough COVID, right, and that
changed a lot of people'sbusiness models.
It changed a lot of how peopleyou know even network or get
business.
You know used to be you go to achamber of commerce event or a
trade show or a business expo orsomething like that, and you'd
(07:45):
either have a booth or you'dwork the room and you'd get, you
know, talk to 10 people, maybeget the opportunity to bid right
.
Has that changed in thepost-COVID world?
Lesle Lane (07:55):
Actually, it started changing for me about five or
six years ago.
I joined a business developmentplatform called Accelerant.
So they are a national, theyhave chapters all across the
country and they're industryexclusive.
And we meet together not onlyas a large group several hundred
people come together everyquarter for a breakfast but then
(08:23):
on a monthly basis in differentspecialties to try to hand each
other those referrals, thosemeaningful introductions.
And so really coming on boardwith Accelerant changed my whole
outlook prior to COVID.
But then, when COVID hit, I hada group full of highly trained
business leaders in the citythat I could call and find out
hey, what is this COVID thinggoing to do to us?
How is this going to affect abusiness like mine?
And I could have meetings withpeople in HR that are saying,
(08:44):
hey, they're firing or they'relaying off.
No, our people are keeping.
And it gave me that intelligentinsight into the economy,
because we all know photographyis 100% dependent on what the
economy is doing.
So I feel like that joiningthat business development
platform really gave me thedirection I needed.
Now I've heard of like groupslike that.
There's BNI, there's differentgroups like that.
Joining that businessdevelopment platform really gave
me the direction I needed.
Gary Pageau (09:03):
Now I've heard of like groups like that there's
BNI, there's different groupslike that.
What's the commitment for thatparticular group?
Lesle Lane (09:10):
I'm not allowed to share the financial commitment
but the difference between anaccelerant, a BNI, and the other
one I've heard of is Goldstaris those BNI groups.
Those Goldstar groups they'renormally B2C, so they're
normally passing business toconsumers instead of trying to
get in with the business.
Where Accelerant is mainly B2B.
(09:32):
There may be a couple of B2C,but not much, and they keep a
database of every single companythat's had some kind of
connectivity, and so if I'mlooking for a specific company,
I can just email theadministrator and say, hey, do
we have anybody that can connectme with this company?
And they'll tell me right away.
So it's a much deeper dive.
Gary Pageau (09:53):
Okay, I've seen BNI around and I've been to a
couple of things and things and,like you said, it's very and
it's a smaller scale, it's morelocal, right.
So, that's wrong with that, butit's a smaller scale, it's more
local right.
So nothing wrong with that, butit's just different.
I was just curious what thedifference between this group
you're in and BNI and Goldstarand those are, because I know a
lot of people have had successwith BNI and those.
You bet, yeah, so you've had tomorph your business again in
(10:20):
recent years because you got toobusy, you had too much business
, so how did you cope with that?
Lesle Lane (10:27):
Well, I just, I did not like losing anything.
Gary Pageau (10:30):
You know this is a business.
This is a business Going back tothe competitive nature of you,
right?
Lesle Lane (10:36):
Yeah, so this is a business where you go from
thinking I'm going to die beforeI get all my work done to
wondering if you're ever goingto shoot another job again in
your life and so turning thatbusiness away, knowing that most
of the time if I go out andshoot a job, I'm going to get
repeat business from it.
I don't really lose clientsvery often, unless there's a
(10:57):
change in leadership or you knowthe business goes somewhere
else.
So I already was working withfreelance assistants and I knew
that they had some shootingskills in their own right, and
so I just went ahead and startedcultivating those and then, as
that's, I've been doing that forabout three years now, and then
I started needing a lot ofdrone work and people are like
(11:21):
you need to learn to shoot drone.
I'm like why I'm so good atwhat I do?
Why do I need to learn to shootdrone?
And so I added that to myrepertoire this year was to have
an independent contractor whoworks for me and handles all of
my drone work for me.
Gary Pageau (11:36):
You know, I keep seeing so much with drones these
days and it is interestingbecause it is photography or
imaging or whatever we want todo, especially like in real
estate.
I see in commercial real estatea lot and things like that, but
it is a different skill set.
So I kind of like your approachof you know, I'm going to offer
(11:56):
the service, I'm not going todo it myself.
What about things like, youknow, liability and things like
that?
Who's covered in that case?
You know, let's say, a dronecrashes on a car, right, who's
liable for that if you'reproviding the offering?
Lesle Lane (12:10):
Yeah, it's so interesting to me because I've
learned a lot about it since Ibrought him on my team.
He has to have his ownliability because of the
dangerousness of the dronegetting into places.
It shouldn't.
I was also unaware that the FAAactually knows every single
drone that starts up and if youdidn't do a pre-flight check-in,
(12:32):
they will shut your drone down.
Gary Pageau (12:35):
Really, I mean, there must be commercial drones,
not just like the ones you buyfrom Best Buy.
Lesle Lane (12:40):
I'm sure there are commercial drones, but yeah, so
the one that we are working withit will be shut down by the FAA
.
I also was shooting at a largeuniversity in northern Indiana a
couple weeks ago and it gavesecurity a notice that we were
on site and they did not know wewere going to be on site.
And so here comes securitywanting to know what we're doing
(13:02):
, flying a drone over theircampus.
So it's been a very interestinglearning curve.
But because of the nature ofthe drone photography, we have
to not only have my liabilitypolicy that covers it does cover
some contractors, but becauseof the nature of what my drone
guy does, he has to have his ownso what other types of um?
Gary Pageau (13:24):
imaging, I guess, is the word we're going to use,
because drone is probably yougot, probably got some video in
there, you probably got somestills in there you know your,
your corp work seems to be moreof a, you know, still still
photography, still imaging, buthave you had to add video and
other things?
And this is that the type ofwork you're contracting out?
Lesle Lane (13:43):
Yes, so my drone person is actually a
videographer as well, and sowhat we try to do the drone work
see, especially in thecommercial real estate community
, a lot of people own drones now, so a lot of engineers and
architects and all those peoplethat we work for, and so they
don't need as much as they did,say, maybe, five years ago, but
(14:03):
what they do love is awalkthrough.
So what we've been doing sinceI landed my drone person on our
team is we do the drone work andthen mix it in with a
walkthrough of the building andwe give them maybe a 90 second
or 120 second reel that they canthen put on social media to
show off their projects.
We're not doing productionvideos.
(14:25):
I have no desire to competewith the people that are so good
at the production work.
We just add it on as a servicefor the clients that we're
already working with.
Gary Pageau (14:35):
I'm sure the word's getting around right.
I mean, I'm sure you're gettingreferrals from that.
Lesle Lane (14:40):
It's picking up and again, thank goodness that my
reputation is pretty good in thecommunity.
I haven't screwed up too muchin my lifetime A couple of times
.
I'm not going to tell thosestories because it does happen.
I'm not human, I mean I'm notinhuman but people know that I'm
going to take care of them.
If they come to me for a joband they use drone and they use
my person, that I'm going todeliver.
Gary Pageau (15:03):
So let's talk about the other piece, because you've
got eight other people right onthe team, right?
So Do you feel like you have tokeep them engaged and find
another enough work for them,Because, even though they're not
full time employees, they stillhave an obligation to you and
you have an obligation to them,right?
What's that like as a businessowner?
Lesle Lane (15:24):
Well, it's much better than having somebody on a
W-2, I can tell you that it's alittle bit easier in that they
all know that.
You know, when I go out and Inetwork and I work with people,
I'm selling the company.
But there's a couple of thingsthat do make it a little bit
easier.
So, like I don't do drone work,I don't do video, so anything
(15:44):
that comes my way my guy isgoing to get.
I also don't shoot eventphotography.
I don't enjoy it, it's not mygift, so every event that comes
to me goes out to my team.
Then the other thing is is thatmy goal is to grow this business
to such an extent that myfreelancers take up 40 percent
of the general revenue of thecompany, because I'm a lovely
(16:06):
middle aged woman we won't sayhow old that is and I'm looking
to maybe not grow my part of thebusiness as much, but I am
looking to grow there.
So they're grateful for that.
Most photographers I'm notspeaking for everybody, so
nobody get mad at me Mostphotographers do not like the
business aspect of it.
They don't like the sales andthe networking and the invoicing
(16:27):
and the accounting.
I love that part, so I even gotmy master's in doing it, so I
actually have the joy of lovingboth sides of the camera.
Gary Pageau (16:36):
Well, you just touched on a great point,
because I've seen that aroundthe industry a lot.
I mean not just for shooters,photographers, but also on the
retail side or the photo labside, where you know they got
into business because they lovephotography and they love, you
know, being a retailer orwhatever, but then all this
other stuff that comes upbecomes a distraction and they
(16:58):
almost neglect it or they don'twant to deal with it, or they
delegate it and you knowwhatever and they're not
involved and then they, thenthings happen and they don't
know what's going on.
So I think that's a great pointthat you've got to know both of
that, both of that you know.
It is interesting when I seephotographers, you know, get
into photography and then theydiscover the whole.
You know 70% of their businessis doing non photography stuff.
(17:18):
Right, it's yes right.
A friend of mine is aphotographer who said you know,
nothing kills your love ofphotography faster than a
photography business.
Lesle Lane (17:26):
No kidding, no, there's, that's the truth.
Gary Pageau (17:30):
So why do you think you have sort of that dual
perspective on the business?
Right, you enjoy the shooting,obviously you like to do it,
you're good at it, but you alsolike the business side of it,
which is not typical.
Lesle Lane (17:45):
Well, I'll tell you the story.
It's funny to me.
My dad, my stepdad, that ownedthis business when I was 12, he
gave me a checking account tohandle all of my ice skating
bills because he got tired ofpaying them.
And so at a very young age I hadto ask him every month for a
certain amount of money.
I had to show him a monthlybudget of what my expenses were
(18:06):
going to be, and then, if I didnot stay within that budget, he
led me to believe that I wasgoing to balance checks and I
was going to be in very bigtrouble.
And so from a very young age Ihad to learn all those things
that go into running a business.
And so when I came into thebusiness, I actually did not
graduate with a degree inphotography or business.
I went back to school for mymaster's to get that degree in
(18:27):
business, and so I enjoyed it.
They used to do it all by hand.
Imagine that that they wouldhave to sit down and they called
it the breakdown.
My dad did and you would haveto put photography and here's
how much money, film and here'show much money, and you had to
do it all by pencil andeverything had to match.
And so doing accounting on thecomputer is so much easier and I
(18:48):
find it enjoyable.
Gary Pageau (18:50):
So and there's all kinds of honestly for
photographers.
Now it's almost like the dreamworld, because you've got all
these platforms out there thatare, you know, basically run
your business for you in some,in some extent.
Lesle Lane (19:03):
Yeah, and it's funny , there are so many tools.
But if you don't, if you're notclear headed to know the way
through, here's how I get thejob.
Here's how I bid the job.
Here's how I bid the job.
Here's how I shoot the job.
Here's how I deliver the job.
Here's how I build the job.
If you don't have that A to D,e, f mentality like I do or
(19:24):
other photographers who runsuccessful businesses do.
You just can't teach it becausea lot of people just really
hate that side of it.
Gary Pageau (19:33):
But it is far easier than it used to be.
I mean, that's what I findfascinating is you have these
amazing tools for invoicing andcontact management and all these
things which you know in theold days that was all by hand.
It's amazing, and a lot of themare very specific to running a
photo studio, which is kind ofnice.
Lesle Lane (19:52):
They are.
Yeah, there's really not muchof an excuse anymore, because
there are definite tools to helppeople that don't like it.
Definitely, I agree.
Gary Pageau (20:00):
So you also like to help other people with their
business.
Tell me some of the ways thatpeople have worked with you or
approached you, and how do youdiagnose how you can help them?
Lesle Lane (20:12):
Well, first and foremost, I'm never afraid to
admit my failures.
So much of what has happened tome in my life is because I did
it wrong and I had to figure outa different way.
The other thing I figured out,especially over the last five to
seven years, is that everyphotographer is like a unique
thumbprint.
Yes, we may all be competingagainst each other, but we don't
all shoot the same.
We don't all shoot the same.
(20:33):
We don't all have the samepersonalities, and so I'm never
afraid to sit down and talk to aphotographer about their
business, because I had myparents, I had my grandparents,
I had plenty of people behind methat I could be a sounding
board for, and so some of myyounger photographers.
They sit down with me and theyask about pricing and they ask
(20:53):
about how I do my processing.
You know how do I get myselffrom point A to point F, and I
don't hesitate to tell them Ihave.
I have no reason not to behelpful.
Gary Pageau (21:04):
Because that is one of the things I think that I
think, in the photographyindustry specifically, there's a
lot of sharing and interactiongoes on.
There's a lot of sharing andinteraction goes on.
If you go to the bigconferences, people will get up
there and tell you exactly howthey do it, just because they
know.
You know, again, the customercontact piece is really the glue
that will keep you the business100% Going forward.
(21:25):
What do you see happening withcommercial photography?
Because, like, for example, youknow, I keep hearing different
things that are happening in thebusiness world that when I
think of someone like you withina commercial photography
business, it might affect them.
Like you know, people you knowgoing either totally remote or
they're starting to bring peopleback.
And there's, you know, all thischallenge happening with retail
(21:45):
right, with retail businessesclosing.
So you know, retail commercialreal estate is a problem or a
challenge, if you will.
Retail commercial real estateis a problem or a challenge, if
you will.
So what are you kind of seeingin the economy right now that
you're keeping an eye on in thatbusiness?
Lesle Lane (21:59):
Yeah, so a lot of my work is architecture and so
that can include commercial realestate, buildings and things
like that.
And if you follow the AIA,which is the architecture group,
you'll see that architecturalbuilding has been down several
cycles in a row and architectureis normally a two year piece
where I won't shoot a job fortwo years after they actually
(22:20):
get the job because they've gotto design it and build it.
So I'm anticipating that twoyears from now we're going to
see a significant slowdown inthe architecture space here in
Indianapolis.
We have had a real shift in thedowntown dynamic of Indianapolis
where people always wanted tobe downtown and since COVID hit
and people are coming back tothe office, they're almost all
skedaddling, you know, to thesuburbs of Indianapolis rather
(22:42):
than downtown.
So we're going to have to havesome kind of economic
development to push some fundsinto the downtown Indianapolis
area to continue to, you know,try to keep people down there.
So those two thingseconomically are certainly going
to affect us.
Now I'd be remiss if I did notmention AI.
I think that in commercialphotography we would be silly
not to bring that topic up.
But many people don'tunderstand, if you're not in the
(23:05):
industry, that Photoshop hashad an AI component for a decade
.
They don't understand this.
I've been circling stuff anderasing stuff for years, but
what I am noticing on the retailside of when I'm shooting
product is that retailers aregiving manufacturers pushback on
(23:26):
AI driven images.
They are absolutely sendingpackaging back to the
manufacturer and saying redothese packages with real
photography.
This isn't real.
Well, that's good for me andI've run into that twice this
year where that's been thepushback.
I've also started to run intopeople who, if I over, retouch a
(23:47):
headshot, because I think thisyear I'm over 780 headshots this
year that I've shot this year.
If I over retouch them in anyway, they will send them back
and say don't make me look, aigenerated Now.
Luckily, I've only had thathappen two or three times this
year, but I think that I thinkthat AI is going to continue to
be an amazing tool for ourindustry.
I'm hoping it doesn't replaceme till I retire and I don't
(24:10):
want to be naive and to say that, but I think it's just going to
continue to be the companiesthat are driven by authenticity,
the companies that are drivenby transparency.
They're still going to needphotography that reflects those
corporate motives.
Gary Pageau (24:25):
Yeah, I think you're right, because I go to a
lot of conferences where I talkabout AI and it's definitely a
tool that's been in use for along time in the imaging
industry right.
We've been using it forenhancing images and doing this,
you know, before it becametrendy, people were, you know,
have been using AI.
So I think the authenticitypiece actually is a point of
differentiation, because peoplecan spot AI stuff.
(24:47):
Where I think it's going tomake a big impact, I think is in
stock photography or in catalogphotography, right, where you
can swap out AI models for ashirt and, you know, on a
website very easily, you know.
So I think that type ofphotography is going to be
impacted, but, you know, takingpictures of real people in real
places doing real things, Ithink is not going to change.
Lesle Lane (25:09):
I hope you're right.
I'm ready for it.
Gary Pageau (25:14):
Lesle, where can people go to get more
information about you and yourbusiness down there in
Indianapolis?
Lesle Lane (25:21):
Absolutely so.
You can reach me atStudio13Onlinecom.
That is our website,studio13onlinecom, and you can
hear all about my family storyunder the legacy button.
If you want to learn about allthree generations of us.
You can also find us onFacebook, instagram, linkedin,
and you can find me personallyon LinkedIn as well.
(25:42):
Lesle, without an I L E S L E LA N E.
Gary Pageau (25:46):
Lesle, without an I .
It's been great talking to youand I look forward to meeting
you in person sometime.
Lesle Lane (25:52):
I hope so, Gary.
It's been a pleasure.
Erin Manning (25:55):
Thank you for listening to the Dead Pixels
Society podcast.
Read more great stories andsign up for the newsletter at
wwwthedeadpixelssocietycom.
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