Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brad Nelson (00:00):
So what if your
financial struggles aren't just
about money, but about thestories, the patterns and the
beliefs that you've inheritedover time?
Now today's guest, elizabethHusserl, is a financial coach
who helps people of all incomelevels rethink their
relationship with money, and inthis episode, she's going to
share how our financial DNAshapes behavior, why so many of
(00:21):
us feel stuck and what it reallymeans to heal from generational
money wounds.
We'll also explore how to havetrue dialogue with money, why
open conversations are stilltaboo and the first steps
towards rewriting your moneystory.
Announcer (00:39):
You're listening to
the Debt-Free Dad podcast with
Brad Nelson.
Brad and his co-hostsexperience the anxiety of living
paycheck to paycheck beforelearning the fundamentals of
financial success.
They are now on a mission toempower regular people to pay
off their debt for good andenjoy happier, less stressful
lives.
Keep listening forinspirational interviews, tips,
(01:00):
tricks and practical advice togain financial freedom reviews,
tips, tricks and practicaladvice to gain financial freedom
.
Brad Nelson (01:11):
Hey guys, welcome
to today's show.
I'm Brad Nelson, the founder ofDebt-Free Dad.
I paid off about $45,000 indebt.
I've been debt-free now formore than 12 years.
I've also been fortunate tohelp thousands of other people
save and pay off tens ofmillions of dollars with the
work that we do here atDebt-Free Dad.
After listening to this episode, if you are someone who is
ready to take things to the nextlevel, you're ready to break
free from living paycheck topaycheck.
You want to reduce financialstress.
(01:31):
You want to build your savingsand finally pay off your debt
for good.
But maybe you're like a lot ofus You're not really quite sure
where to get started.
Well, we've created someincredible free resources here
for you at Debt-Free Dad.
I'll be sharing some detailsabout that later on in today's
episode.
Hey Elizabeth, welcome to theDebt-Free Dad podcast.
So glad that you're joining ustoday.
Elizabeth Husserl (01:51):
Thank you,
brad, it's a pleasure to be here
.
Brad Nelson (01:53):
Yeah, so you're a
financial coach, very similar to
me and what we do here atDebt-Free Dad, and I would love
to know I mean, obviously ourlisteners know where we came
from how we got started in this,but I'm interested to know how
did you get started in this andhow did you become a financial
coach helping others improvetheir money?
Elizabeth Husserl (02:10):
Yeah, I mean,
I think we often start because
we want to learn something weweren't taught right, and I
think that's a really importantpiece.
I was raised I'm firstgeneration in the United States.
My parents are from SouthAmerica, my grandfather was from
Austria and he left Austria asan Austrian Jew and that's how
he ended up in Colombia and somuch.
Like many of us who havepersecution or leaving homeland
(02:31):
for war in our family.
That led kind of a legacy offinancial scarcity in my family.
And even though both of myparents were working
professionals my dad was adoctor, my mom was a therapist I
had what I needed.
Growing up we couldn't shakethat sense of scarcity and being
afraid of the next financialfallout.
And again, I bet you I'm nottalking about something most of
(02:51):
us don't know.
And so when I was a kid Icouldn't figure it out.
I was like wait a second, whyis it that we feel the scarcity?
But I can go to school, I havemy clothes, we go see my
grandparents in Columbia, andit's almost like I was looking
for this software update that wecan do on our phones to be like
push you know, can I just resetour financial legacy?
And I realized.
(03:12):
No, it took some deeper digginginto areas, both understanding
how finances worked right, likemy parents taught me how to you
know, balance a checkbook, spendwithin my means.
They didn't teach me beyondthat in terms of investing and
looking for high yield savingsaccounts.
They taught me what they knewand I think that's a big piece
too is that we're taughtsomething, or we're taught what
we're known, but there'ssomething that we're looking for
(03:33):
to take it to the next step.
So I went into the industrybecause I feel like in financial
coaching and financial advising, I get to do the fun kind of
like math, figuring it out andlearning how to create wealth in
a broader sense and with money,and also learning how we relate
to money.
So I also have a degree inpsychology because I'm
(03:54):
fascinated by our behaviors andattitudes around it.
So, that's my entry point.
Brad Nelson (04:00):
Yeah, it is a
fascinating thing, and I would
totally agree, it's not justabout the math and numbers, the
interest rates or anything likethat it is.
There is such a psychologicalside to money and personal
finance, and it's just a funtopic to be able to teach too.
And so why is it, though, that,in your opinion, in your
professional opinion, afterhelping you know so many people,
why is money such a tough issuefor so many people, tough issue
(04:22):
for so many people?
Elizabeth Husserl (04:23):
Because it
represents so much.
I think that's the honest,brutal truth.
It represents so much.
And I would say a couple ofthings.
One we confuse money for wealth, right, and I think that's a
really big misnomer is that wethink money equals wealth.
So if I don't have money, I'mnot wealthy.
We just kind of go down likethis rabbit hole of shame,
confusion, guilt, et cetera.
Right, and if you think aboutit, money is actually just a
(04:45):
tool.
It has very specific functions.
We use it for exchange, we useit for value, we use it for
deferred credit, we buy thingsfor the future on it.
It's a tool and a technology,but it's not wealth.
Wealth is a state of well-being.
But what happens is that back inthe day, when we were living in
smaller communities, money hadits function and we knew each
other with our intimaterelationships.
Brad, I would know, were youshowing up in the community?
(05:08):
Were you doing your job?
Were you being a good person, agood neighbor?
Our relationship to moneydidn't necessarily replace our
relationship of knowing eachother as human beings.
In our more modern culture, wedon't have that same level of
intimate relationships.
We don't know our bankers, wedon't know our grocery store
clerks, and so money is now kindof a currency of trust, and so
(05:29):
our trustworthiness is nowreplaced by a credit worthiness.
And so if you're like, oh, Idon't have a good credit score
If I don't have a lot in yourbank, we start to feel less
worthy, right?
And that's where self-worthgets confused with net worth,
and so it just goes into a lotof different realms that money
wasn't originally intended tolive in, and that's why it's so
(05:50):
confusing.
Brad Nelson (05:51):
Yeah, we talk about
this often on our show and it's
just a tough topic for a lot ofpeople to also talk about.
Do you feel like it's becauseof that shame that people aren't
talking about it?
Elizabeth Husserl (06:01):
Well, because
when you go.
So we also have this misnomerthat talking about wealth means
talking about numbers and beinggood with numbers and math.
I personally love that, but noteveryone does, and I wrote a
book, brad, with all thesequestions around wealth and
these many moments, because Iwant people to talk about the
relationship to money, notneeding to be good at math right
and have different entry points, because when you put the
numbers in, we start thiscomparison game, kind of like in
(06:24):
social media.
I'm like did I get the likes?
Did I not know how manyfollowers do I have?
And when we get into acomparison game, the reality is
that always there will besomeone else who has more than
you, and that's a game we can'twin, right, and so we're kind of
like setting ourselves up forfailure.
But if we talk about money interms of what are my dreams,
what are my successes, what aremy failures, what do I know,
what do I don't know, let's getvulnerable and say, hey, there's
(06:46):
a list of questions.
I want to become anentrepreneur.
I don't know how to do this.
So let me go talk to peoplewho've done this in my life and
learn their story.
If we talk about our stories.
It's amazing how much more wewould talk about money.
Brad Nelson (06:58):
Yeah, there was a
crazy statistic, well, a study
that they did, and they say thatpeople are more willing to
share their deepest, darkestsecrets than they would say the
balance of their checkingaccount or how much credit card
debt they have, and that's justthat's wild to me, and I guess
it is, but it isn't becausethat's I mean, that's the life I
(07:19):
used to live.
That's how I got into this is Istruggled with living paycheck
to paycheck.
I struggled with looking like Iwas enough and buying things
just to impress other people,but yet I wasn't willing to
really share how I was reallydoing on the inside.
Financially, I was just broke.
Elizabeth Husserl (07:36):
Yeah, exactly
, and I mean, that's what I love
my job.
I get to talk to people andmoney every single day and so
it's helped me in myrelationship to money.
And, you know, hopefully yourlisteners will just like go and
ask someone about their firstmoney memory.
Right, call up a friend, writeit down, talk to your kids about
it.
It's amazing what starts tohappen when we just start
(07:56):
talking about money more.
It holds less grip.
And when money holds less gripas power in our lives, we make
better decisions.
Brad Nelson (08:05):
Yeah, you mentioned
one of the most important
things you could do is have afinancial conversation with
yourself.
Yeah, and can you talk to usabout what does that mean when
you have a conversation withourselves?
How does that work?
Elizabeth Husserl (08:16):
So there's
two ways to do it, and I'll just
say, brad, I'm a huge proponentabout educational resources, so
listeners can get both of thesetools for free on my website.
So I just want to make thatclear.
It's more important to me thatyou do the work.
I'm similar to you.
So, number one, you can writedown your money story and start
to get super clear on what yourmoney story has been.
(08:38):
When you do that exercise, Ialways tell people write it out,
take a break, come back to it aweek later, read through your
money story as if you werereading the story of your best
friend, right?
We're often kinder with ourbest friends than we are with
ourselves.
So go through that story as ifit were your best friend and see
what patterns do you see?
(08:58):
What ways was this person doingawesome and potentially was
growing resilience or courage ortaking risk, and what ways have
they created a pattern that'scaused potentially a similar
hole that they have fallen into?
I won't use the word failure,but it's more like you know you
go to therapy.
They're like oh, you keepfalling in that hole.
You keep doing that habit,right, as we start to get
(09:19):
awareness of it, we start to notfall into that hole.
So that's one super simpletechnique is just go write down
your money story, then a weeklater read through it again as
if it were your best friend andsee kind of what kindness and
compassion you can bring andwhat insight and awareness you
can have.
The other one is a little moredynamic, a little more fun, and
(09:41):
it's helped me for the last 20years, especially in those
moments that I was livingpaycheck to paycheck myself and
starting my business, and it'scalled A Conversation With Money
.
I describe it in detail in thebook but the way it works
literally it's an empty chairexercise.
So you pick an object for money.
If you're looking at this, youcan see I'm holding up my money
(10:02):
jar.
It has a $20 bill and somecurrencies from places that I've
traveled to and you take twochairs.
You are in one chair.
You literally sit your moneyobject in the other chair.
You put a timer on your phonefor five minutes and for the
first five minutes you get to gofirst and you get to say
whatever you're holding on yourheart around money, whatever you
(10:22):
feel.
Don't tell money your story,but you can be like God damn it
money, why aren't you showing upin my life.
Or I need more of you, or, ohmy gosh, you represent
everything that's wrong withsociety, or I'm so happy to see
you.
Do not edit what comes out ofyour mouth, because it's going
to tell you a lot about what'sat the core in your experience
(10:44):
your relationship to money.
When the timer goes off, youliterally stand up, change
chairs, you hold your moneyobject in your hand and you get
to respond back to you as if youwere money.
Do not edit what comes out ofyour mouth because, again, it's
usually the first thing that aresaid.
That tells you what is at thecore of this conversation.
(11:07):
When the timer goes off, youswitch, you get one more turn
and then money gets one moreturn.
Money gets the last word inthis conversation.
It's really important.
If you get stuck, you can say,hey, money, you got any advice
for me right now, anything thatyou see that I'm doing.
And what happens, brad, is, whenyou have this conversation, you
can also do it in your journal,if you're like.
(11:28):
Okay, I'm not going to sit downand have this conversation, do
it in your journal, bring it toa therapist.
You could ask your best friendto hold space for you.
But what happens is that yousee energetically what's there.
Is it anger, is it frustration,is it shame, is it indifference
?
Is it total blank?
I don't even know what to sayif I could, because that's going
to be your starting point ofhow you experience money.
(11:50):
Every time you take out yourwallet, right, are you
experiencing anger, frustration,etc.
And what it starts to do is togive you clarity of.
Oh, I was super angry at moneywhen I sat down and I had my
conversation 20 years ago.
I was angry that it wasn'tshowing up.
I was doing everything by thebook.
I was opening my business andmoney was like whoa, elizabeth,
(12:12):
slow down, you are smothering me.
You are expecting that I'mgoing to show up on day one and
guess what?
You're not actually asking forpeople to pay you a fair rate,
right?
You're not doing that.
And I was like oh, okay, youhave a lot of opinions money on
what I'm doing wrong.
And as we went back and forth, Igot super clear that no one had
taught me how to be anentrepreneur, right?
(12:33):
No wonder I was drowning indebt because I was not knowing
how to really run a business.
So money, super helpful, made alist with me and be like here's
your questions.
Here are the people who aredoing it well in your life.
Go talk to them and see if theyhave answers to your questions.
And I was like, huh, okay,money, you're not out to get me,
you're actually wanting to helpme, so let's have this
(12:54):
conversation, let's create abusiness plan together.
So the conversation with moneymight be the most out there
thing you do with money, but,hands down, it is what has
helped me build a healthyrelationship to money, get out
of debt, build wealth in waysthat nothing else has.
So I just really wanted to passthat on to your listeners today
(13:15):
.
Brad Nelson (13:15):
Yeah, I mean I
could definitely see the value
there, especially when it comesto I mean there's so many things
that can come out of thatconversation.
Oh yeah, so many, but I know onethat definitely resonates with
me just because of how manypeople I've had the opportunity
to talk with who are askingquestions about their finances.
A lot of people will come to mewith money wounds or past
(13:38):
trauma with money or just thelack of say.
You know what, brad?
Nobody in my life ever taughtme how to manage my money.
Nobody ever taught me how tobudget or how to even have a
system that allowed me to reachfinancial goals Like I just have
always learned to just survive.
Once you have this conversation, you're probably, as a person,
(13:58):
if you're like most people,going to have some of these
money wounds.
How do you start to repair someof those things wounds?
Elizabeth Husserl (14:04):
with our
parents onto money.
We scapegoat it.
So I would say two things, brad.
One ask yourself, when you lookback to your family, what do
(14:27):
you want to take with you andwhat do you don't.
Maybe you're like, okay, therewas wounding there, but there
was resilience.
My grandfather filed forbankruptcy twice and made his
way back through it.
I'm like that's pretty cool.
I want to take the resilience ofan entrepreneur right, but I
don't want to take on the factthat my grandparents never
talked to each other about money.
I want money transparency in myrelationship.
And so you start to get superclear what stays with them,
(14:50):
right, and sometimes I willliterally write it on a piece of
paper and bury it into theground and say I'm giving this
up, like some people will burnit, whatever your ritual is
around it.
But what stays in the past andwhat am I taking with me as part
of my inheritance, my legacythat I want to teach to my
daughter, that I want to takeforward?
So that's one way to have aconscious choice, because we
(15:11):
feel financial freedom when wefeel like we have choice with
money.
That's another piece.
When we feel like we don't havechoice, we start to feel really
disempowered, so bringingchoice to it.
And then the second thing that Iwould say is a lot of times
money feels so hard because wehave so many questions right, we
have savings questions, debtpaying questions, income
questions, investment questions.
(15:31):
So I tell people it's too muchto hold those questions in our
head.
Write them down, like literallytake a half an hour, write
every single money question youhave.
Then take a step back andhighlight the top two that if I
resolve these top two questions,they're going to have the most
impact in my money life.
(15:51):
Start there.
You got your list to come backto once these two are resolved
and you can add to it, but startwith two, not with 30, because
it's overwhelming.
Brad Nelson (16:02):
Yeah, yeah, it's so
good.
And I guess the other question Iwould have with this let's
switch over to mindset, becauseI think where a lot of people
also are influenced is from theoutside, like social influence
co workers, friends, family,social media I mean social media
is a tough one Because, again,you've got algorithms in social
(16:22):
media.
If you start focusing oncertain content, like, for
instance, content where peopleare posting that they don't have
enough food or they're in thisscarcity mindset, you're
constantly seeing this stuffover and over again.
What do you say to individualsto be more aware of those
influences and how that canaffect how you look at money,
how you manage your money, theconversations you're having
(16:42):
about money?
What are your thoughts there?
Elizabeth Husserl (16:45):
Yeah, 100%.
So I would say scarcity brainis real, right?
So let's just kind of assumethat scarcity brain is real.
We all know what that feelslike.
You probably had a little voicethat pops up and like I don't
have enough, I want more.
And so be like, hey, I know you, right?
So start to create arelationship with your scarcity
brain and know that our scarcitybrain is what has kept us alive
, right?
If you and I, right, are havingthis conversation right now is
(17:06):
because our ancestors had a goodscarcity brain.
They survived.
We're here talking, so thankyou, scarcity brain, you have
kept me alive, right?
But scarcity brain also doesn'tnecessarily make us feel good,
right.
It doesn't feel like we haveenough.
So the way you work with thescarcity brain is that you tap
into your body's ability to feelenough, and they know what
(17:26):
enough feels like.
And the easiest way to knowwhat I'm talking about is think
of the last time you had anourishing meal, right.
We know what a good meal feelslike.
You're like oh my God, that hitthe spot and I ate just enough.
I didn't overeat and I'm nothungry.
We know when we slow down enoughto eat, well, what that feels
like versus when we're eatingempty calories or I'm eating on
(17:47):
the run, I'm like, oh my God,did I have lunch today?
So just use that perspective,like, oh, I actually know what
satisfaction feels like.
And then what you do is thatyou start to bring that level of
satisfaction to other areas ofour life that we use money for
right Physical health, our senseof safety, belonging,
connection, all these otherneeds.
(18:08):
And if you could be like, okay,let me slow down for a moment
and see how satisfied am I truly?
What do I need to do to satisfymyself, to really feel purpose
in my life, feel meaning?
And can I do that, brad, withthe use of money and without the
use of money?
And so we start to feel, knowwhat fulfillment feels like,
(18:29):
what enough feels like.
That's the best way to calm thescarcity brain, and the reality
is it does require sometimesput the phone down, because when
you're looking at the phone, Ihad this conversation with my
teen daughter right, because shewas like mom, I'm not, I'm
feeling so tired and I'm likewell, what are you doing on your
time off?
She's like I'm schoolinginstagram.
You know, I obviously wanted Icut my mouth.
(18:51):
I'm like I'm not going to judgeher, but I did ask her how does
that feel like?
And she's like well, it doesn'tfeel restful.
I'm like great, great.
So put the phone down, let yourmind take a break and relax
into what your body knows.
Go for a run, have a goodworkout, eat good food, right,
feel sunshine on your skin.
When you start to slow down andknow what enough feels like and
(19:13):
you didn't spend money to do soyou're starting to really build
a muscle that helps you offsetthe scarcity brain.
Brad Nelson (19:21):
Yeah, yeah, you
mentioned enough.
You know, and I think that'sone thing a lot of people
struggle with in today's societyis just, I mean, we're taught
to overconsume.
It's consume, consume, consume.
You know, we're constantly hitwith advertising and marketing
and we're seeing all this stuff,and what has helped you with
determining what enough at leastlooks like from a materials
(19:42):
standpoint, like materialpossessions, and how does that
play a role in your overallfinancial health?
Elizabeth Husserl (19:46):
moving
forward, yeah, and so I think
recognizing enough, or knowingwhat enough is, is knowing that
wealth is not just aboutaccumulating it.
Wealth is about experiencing it.
That grandfather that I talkedabout, that went bankrupt twice.
He always would tell me you diewith a penny to your name.
Yes, we obviously do want toleave a legacy or take care of
(20:07):
the family we leave behind, butin reality, what he was telling
me is that if we don't know howto experience wealth, then no
amount of money is going to makeus feel enough, and I think
that's a really key piece.
If you don't know how toexperience connection, no amount
of followers is going to makeyou feel enough.
Right, and so I come back to it.
And so literally, we're stuckin this abundance scarcity loop,
(20:31):
where I'm trying to pushscarcity away by grabbing onto
abundance, Like that's whatwe're stuck doing, and we're
like wait a second, am Iactually experiencing meaning
and satisfaction and fulfillmentin my life?
So I know it can sound a littlegrandiose, but I really
everyone can do this, Brad,because we know what it feels to
have sunshine on our skin, tobe like oh my gosh, let me just
(20:53):
pause for a second, take a deepbreath and be like, okay, this
is what present means.
But when you start to be morepresent with the material things
and go around your house and belike, am I using these things?
Right, it's like it's on yourrecent podcast.
You were saying you want toearn more money.
Sell the things you're notusing right, you can turn that
into cash.
And you know that couch thatyou love.
(21:15):
Go, lay on it.
Right.
The things that you're notusing, move them on.
And that's how you can havekind of a right relationship
with the material world is usethe things you purchase deeply,
get rid of the ones or put themback into currency, create, make
cash from them.
And as you start to bring moreenjoyment and fulfillment to
what you have, something startsto shift.
(21:36):
When people do start investing,they try to compound interest.
That's money making money,right.
When you start to compoundmeaning, your body starts to
feel a sense of fulfillment thathelps you make better money
decisions.
Brad Nelson (21:51):
Yeah, that's so
good.
Compound meaning yeah, that'sso good.
And I think one of the mostbeneficial things about it is
once you determine some of thesethings like, for instance, you
said, have that money,conversation with yourself, you
know, start understanding whatenough looks like, it's amazing
how much less stress you alsohave.
Yeah, once you becomecomfortable and you accept like
(22:12):
these are the only things that Ireally need to have, it allows
you to completely ignore most ofthe noise that's being thrown
at you.
And for me, that was like ahuge wake up call on my
financial journey was like onceI realized none of that stuff
out there that is tempting tomost people, I don't need it.
And once I said that to myselfnone of it really bothers me
(22:33):
anymore.
I'm not out there trying to getit because I know it doesn't
really have any sort of meaningto what I'm really about.
Elizabeth Husserl (22:42):
Yeah, and I
want to say, the second tool
that's on my website that Iwould really encourage people to
look at is, you know, it's awealth map or a wealth mandala,
and mandala means circle inSanskrit, and I chose that word
on purpose, because it's thepath from suffering to joy.
So, to your point, how do wemove from suffering with money
to joy with money?
And what it does is like youprint out that map and it has 12
human needs and on a scale of 1to 10, you can say how
(23:05):
fulfilled am I in my human needs?
Maybe financial stability on ascale to 10 is at a 4 or 5,
because you're getting out ofdebt, right, and you're like, oh
, I'm not where I want to be.
But if you start looking atsome of these other needs right,
like your need for connectionor purpose or belonging or
curiosity or touch or physicalhealth Maybe you're an eight or
a seven and you're like, wow,okay, I'm more fulfilled in
(23:27):
these other areas than I givemyself credit for.
Let me lean into those morewhile I'm figuring out my debt,
and let me have my conversation.
This is a really important piece, brad.
Right, let me have myconversation with my family,
because sometimes what happensis that when we get so
pigeonholed and trying to figureout our financial life, it
comes at the expense of passingon scarcity to our kids or our
(23:50):
partners, right, or it comes atthe expense of helping them
experience life differently.
And so when I've done this withmy own family, brad, I'm like,
oh, wow, yes, we're stillfiguring out some things in
financial stability, but guesswhat?
Our sense of belonging is at anine.
Our sense of participation inour school community is at a 10,
because we're in there.
And I'm like, huh, we arewealthy, right, and we start to
(24:13):
change the language, especiallywith our kids that are watching
everything we do, right.
And so when I change theconversation, I'm like, actually
, maybe we're at a foreignfinancial stability, but in
everything else I'm pretty high.
We are wealthy and we start toclaim a certain power.
That starts to dissolve thehaves and the have-nots.
(24:33):
I'm like, no, I'm stillfiguring out this slice of the
pie, but in these other areasI'm doing great, or I actually
know how to satisfy them.
It changes our experience andour financial power.
We feel more empowered when westart to feel wealthy in other
areas.
Brad Nelson (24:48):
Yeah, I'm going to
come back to the kids, because I
love that you brought this upand I want to ask you just one
question about that.
But, first relationships.
Let's talk about that becausewe're having this conversation
today.
We're talking about having aconversation with yourself and
being able to, you know, figurethese things about yourself.
And here's what I found, andI'm sure you have too is that
likely in a relationship?
(25:08):
You have one person who'swilling and wants to do this
work to improve, but you gotthat other partner over there
that's just dragging their feetand is just terribly not
interested.
What does somebody do whenthey're in that situation?
Because that's probably outsideof the common questions of how
do I get out?
of debt.
How do I save money?
That's probably one of the topquestions that we get here.
That's awesome.
Elizabeth Husserl (25:28):
How do I get?
Brad Nelson (25:29):
my partner on board
.
Elizabeth Husserl (25:30):
Yeah Well.
So I think a couple thingsright Because you actually took
that question a different placethat I thought you would is that
a lot of times, my, I loveworking with couples and you're
right, one is super kind of like, leans in and loves financial
planning, loves everything,spreadsheets.
One's like, oh my god, theystart to glaze over, right, and
I'm like I need you both, right.
And so what I have found, brad,is that the one who's glazing
over starts to glaze overbecause they're running a script
(25:53):
of like I'm not good at math, Idon don't like tracking things,
I'm going to fail.
So they're already tellingthemselves I'm going to fail up
front and they're like why am Igoing to sign up for something?
I'm going to fail?
So that's the first thing Iwould say like how's the
conversation making one of thetwo people feel like they're not
going to be successful at itBecause no one's going to sign
up for that.
So then you know, and a part ofwhy, again, I wrote this book
(26:14):
with no indication of numbers isbecause sometimes people just
need a different entry pointinto the conversation.
Maybe it's like let's put thespreadsheet aside for a second,
let's have the conversationabout what does wealth mean to
the two of us?
They're like oh, okay, I canhave that conversation.
That conversation soundsinteresting.
Or let's start by saying whatwas your money memory?
What's my money memory?
(26:35):
Oh, you know what I like totalk about myself.
Let's have that conversation.
So if you're working withsomeone who's like I do not want
to do spreadsheets, you mighthave to get creative and figure
out what's a different entrypoint to have them talking about
money and wealth where they dowant to participate and you ease
your way into the spreadsheet.
Yeah, there needs to be somefinancial foreplay.
(26:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Brad Nelson (27:02):
Right and a
conversation about strengths and
weaknesses too, because, you'reright, one person in the
relationship is typically betterat the numbers than the other
and it doesn't necessarily meanthat they have to be in full
control.
It's just like you said it'sfinding that entry point where
they're interested, what they'rewilling to be able to help with
and have some of thoseconversations.
That's a tough one for a lot ofcouples, and I've done many
speaking events with couples andone of my questions I asked
them is how many of you haveever had a good money
(27:22):
conversation before you gotmarried?
And hardly anyone raises theirhand.
So if there's someone out therethinking about getting married,
what would be one piece ofadvice that you would give them?
Elizabeth Husserl (27:35):
I like what
you just said, brad, around
strengths and weaknesses,because I am 100% proponent that
all of us have money strengthsand I married my worst money
nightmare.
So I'm the first to be like Iknow what you're talking about.
I'm like, oh my God, you gottabe kidding me, right?
And I'm like totally deeply inlove with this guy and I'm like
we are so money different.
But it took lots of work andlots of conversations.
(27:56):
But I think, first and foremost,I had to take responsibility
for my relationship to money.
That's the first thing I wouldtell couples is that sit down
and if you all can witness aconversation with money where
you're like, okay, that's yourconversation with money, I just
learned something and okay,that's mine.
What am I taking responsibility?
So I had to take responsibilitythat I naturally came from
(28:18):
scarcity, right.
My husband had to takeresponsibility.
That he naturally came from aplace that they were over
generous, right.
It's like they had the hotpotato effect Money would come
in, money would go out, and thatwould freak me out, brad.
I was like what do you mean?
We're paying for everyone atdinner.
I did not agree to this, right.
But, brad, what he taught mewas generosity, because I was
(28:39):
holding on too tight.
I'm like, oh okay, you got toease me into generosity.
We got to talk about thisbefore you do that, and I know
practicing generosity is reallygood for me and I'm going to
teach you how we can actuallymaybe come to an agreement and
make a money plan before wetreat everyone to dinner.
You know what I mean, and so Ithink ultimately, we got super
(29:00):
clear on what we were trying toteach each other.
We had strengths and we hadweaknesses, and then what were
the ways that we were triggeringeach other?
It wasn't personal.
That's the other thing I wouldtell couples.
It's never personal.
We're not trying to piss eachother off.
We just do, because we havedifferent money habits and so if
you can hold it from anon-personal perspective, that
goes a long way.
Brad Nelson (29:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
And then my last question.
Let's talk about kids realquick, because we talk about
this as a relationship, whetherobviously you're a single parent
or in a relationship where bothpartners are involved with the
kids.
How important is this stuff, asparents, to start thinking
about this, because it's notonly my life, but it's also.
I'm raising these kids andwe're shaping the way that they
(29:42):
think about money.
What are some tips or maybesome suggestions that you might
have to help them along theirjourney as young kids to
teenagers, to eventual adults?
Elizabeth Husserl (29:52):
Oh my God.
So I will say kids pick upeverything.
They are freaking sponges, sojust know that, and I'm not
saying that to make you feel bad.
Right, they pick up everything.
And so I think there's thepractical, tactical thing you
can teach kids about money, andthere's the energetic, emotional
thing, and both of these areequally important.
So from the practical, tacticalpiece, like I do think that kids
(30:13):
need to start to engage withmoney from a young age, we
started my daughter with anallowance when she was five and
she got her age.
She was five, she got fivebucks, right.
So we would walk into Targetand you know, on Target, kids'
eyes just go wide.
They're like oh my God, this isa candy store.
I would just let her go roam,because she'd rather roam the
toy aisle versus come groceryshopping with me.
And then, when I would meet herat the toy aisle, brad, I would
(30:36):
let her tell me everything.
Tell me everything you saw.
So I would engage in theexcitement with her.
That does not mean we're buyingit, right?
So notice what I'm doing.
I'm separating the excitementof engaging with the world from
needing to purchase.
And then when she would be like, okay, mom, can I buy this, I'm
like great, let's look at yourallowance.
So again, notice my reaction toit.
I'm like great.
(30:56):
And she would look at theallowance and my first question,
actually before that, would belike would you spend your money
on it?
And if she would say no, brad,I'm like great, mommy's not
going to spend her money either.
And so I would teach them to belike if you're not going to
spend your money, why would Ispend mine?
And she would say, yes, I wouldspend my money, I'm like great,
let's look at the allowance.
And we would look did she haveenough?
(31:16):
If she did, we would have thatquestion Would you spend I would
percentages 80% of yourallowance, and she's like that's
a lot.
No, and if she would say, yes,I'm like great, but you get to
practice financial agency andbuy this with your money.
So notice, I had to take herthrough the whole arc.
If she said I don't have enoughmoney, I'm like great, how many
weeks would it take for us toget there?
And so we're practicing math,we're practicing making
(31:38):
decisions.
And then I would say I'm goingto put a reminder on my phone.
In six weeks we will have thisconversation.
You will tell me if you stillwant to buy this.
So notice, right, we start toclam up as parents when our kids
come to us.
We're like I don't know how tohave this conversation.
If you start to break it downin nuggets in teaching moments,
then they stay open to their ownconversation to money from a
(32:02):
young age.
I cannot emphasize howimportant that is.
And you can teach them with $5a week.
You can help them make moneydecisions right.
So that's really important.
And the other thing I would sayis that when I talked about the
wealth map and I'll tell youwhere to get that on my website
do it with your kids.
I recently had a client send meher wealth map from her
nine-year-old.
(32:22):
He threw my categories out thepicture and his categories
included Legos and fort time andcookie making and TV time and I
was like huh, that'sinteresting.
He's telling us what his wealthportfolio looks like.
Imagine if you start to keeptrack over the years of your
kid's wealth portfolio and bythe time they get to college and
(32:44):
you're teaching them how tobalance a checkbook, you're like
, hey, now we're introducingmoney.
It's going to feel different.
You might feel scarcity, butremember, you know what wealth
looks like, right?
I mean, imagine, imagine thegeneration Brad of kids who knew
what wealth looked likedifferently.
I mean, may I live long enoughto see that?
Brad Nelson (33:04):
Right.
So good, man, elizabeth, sogood.
You had so much great stuff toshare today and, as you,
mentioned you got some tools andthings on your website.
Can you let our listeners knowwhat that website is or what
other stuff you got out there?
Elizabeth Husserl (33:14):
Totally so.
My website's my name, elizabethHusserl, that's
H-U-S-S-E-R-Lcom.
You can go to the ResourceExplorer resource page.
There's tons of free stuff upthere.
There's links to my book calledthe Power of Enough.
There's podcast links this onewill be up there when it comes
out and so I'm committed tohaving people have conversations
(33:36):
with money, defining wealthdifferently, and so you can
follow me on Instagram as well.
I post a bunch there, so atElizabeth Hussroll, and stay in
touch.
I'm happy to hear how all ofthis helps transform your
relationship to money.
Brad Nelson (33:48):
Yeah, elizabeth,
thank you so much for being here
.
We appreciate you, brad, thanksfor having me.
Guys, if you're ready to breakfree from living paycheck to
paycheck, you want to reducefinancial stress, you want to
build savings and finally payoff your debt for good, but
again, maybe you're not surewhere to get started.
Don't worry, as I said, we'vegot you covered.
Simplify my Money is sent toyou each and every Sunday and
it's sent right into your emailinbox.
(34:10):
Simplify my Money is yourstep-by-step roadmap to better
financial control.
You're also going to learneasy-to-follow strategies to
manage your money effectively.
You're also going to learn somestress-free money decisions and
tips that will help yousimplify your financial life
with proven actions that reallywork.
You'll also gain some tools andconfidence to tackle your
(34:32):
financial goals head-on.
All you have to do is sign upfor Simplify my Money by
clicking on the link at the topof the show notes.
Let's talk about debt.
Let's talk about debt.
Tune into Debt Free Debt.
Tune into Debt Free Debt done.
(35:18):
I had to shift some thingsaround, but being organized with
a budget makes things so mucheasier to handle, especially
when it comes to the unexpected.
Mary, you are absolutelycorrect.
Awesome win, misty says our winfor the week is that we've paid
down our personal loan from afamily member while also still
adding to our emergency fund.
She says I can't thank thisprogram, meaning Roots, and the
Roots community for all the tipsand the support.
(35:38):
Misty, awesome job, you'remaking some incredible progress.
And then to wrap it up with Nick.
Nick says my win for this weekis getting my emergency funds
saved up.
Also, I've been needing to buysome new tools for work, but
instead of buying, I waited 24hours and I forgot that I was
even looking to spend some money.
Yes, just giving thosepurchases a little bit of time
(36:01):
helps you separate those wantsversus needs.
Nick, awesome win.
Hey guys, as always,congratulations to all of you
who are taking a stand for yourfinancial life and you're
wanting better.
Hey, we get that.
Getting out of debt isn't easy,but with our help and with your
consistency and hard work, wepromise you guys, this can be
some of the best work that youguys do in your entire life.
Thanks for joining us ontoday's show and we will see you
(36:22):
guys on the next episode.
Announcer (36:29):
Thanks for listening
to the Debt-Free Dad podcast.
Connect with us on Facebook,tiktok, youtube and Instagram.
Just search Debt Free Dad.
If you found value in today'sepisode, please leave us a
rating and review.
We so appreciate it Forresources, show notes and links
mentioned in today's show.
Visit DebtFreeDadcom.
(36:49):
Catch you next week.