November 18, 2025 • 25 mins
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Saving money is one of the hardest financial habits to build, especially when you’re living paycheck to paycheck. In this episode, we break down why saving feels impossible, how to finally build a system that sticks, and the simple steps that can help you build real financial momentum. If you want less stress and more breathing room, this episode is a game-changer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brad Nelson (00:00):
So, if you've ever said that you'll start saving
when things calm down or once Imake a little bit more money, I
hate to break it to you.
That time is never going tocome.
There's always going to besomething competing for your
money.
But here is the good news youdon't need a lot of money to
start saving.
You just need the habit.
In today's episode, we're goingto be talking about why most
(00:24):
people struggle to save, how tobuild a simple saving system
that actually sticks, and how tomake saving fun again.
Because once you build thehabit, even in small ways,
everything in your financiallife can begin to change.
Announcer (00:42):
You're listening to the Debt Free Dad podcast with
Brad Nelson.
Brad and his co-hostsexperience the anxiety of living
paycheck to paycheck beforelearning the fundamentals of
financial success.
They are now on a mission toempower regular people to pay
off their debt for good andenjoy happier, less stressful
lives.
Keep listening forinspirational interviews, tips,
(01:04):
tricks, and practical advice togain financial freedom.
Brad Nelson (01:09):
Hey guys, welcome to today's show.
I am Brad Nelson, founder ofDef Free Dead.
I paid off about $45,000 ofdebt.
I've been debt-free now formore than 12 years.
I've also been fortunate tohelp thousands of other people
save and pay off tens ofmillions of dollars with the
work that we do here at DefFreeDad.
Amber Taylor (01:24):
And my name is Amber Taylor, and myself and my
husband saved and paid off over$54,000 in just 20 months and
have been living debt-freeoutside of our mortgage since
2018.
Chris Hawkins (01:35):
And I am Chris Hawkins, and my wife and I
started our journey 20 years agoin 2005.
And over a three-year period,we paid off just under $100,000
in debt.
And we have been debt-freeexcept for our mortgage ever
since.
Kati Hatfield (01:51):
And I'm Katie Hatfield, and I am still on my
journey to debt freedom.
And in the last seven years, ona single income, I have paid
off $237,660 in student loans,car loans, medical bills, and
credit card debt.
Brad Nelson (02:08):
Now, guys, after listening to this episode, if
you are ready to take things tothe next level, you're ready to
break free from living paycheckto paycheck.
You want to reduce financialstress, you want to build a
savings, finally pay off yourdebt for good.
But again, maybe you're notquite sure where to get started.
Heck, that's why you might belistening to this show.
We've also created someincredible free resources to
(02:30):
help you get started, and we'llbe sharing some details about
how you can get some of thoselater on in today's episode.
So, guys, today we're talkingabout one of my most favorite
topics to talk about because Iused to be terrible at saving
money.
And I think most people wholive paycheck to paycheck,
people who get started on theroad to getting out of debt,
(02:51):
saving is a habit that you haveto create.
And I can relate to a lot ofpeople who are like, man, no
matter what I do, no matter whatI try, I just can't save any
money.
Can you guys relate to thatwhen you first started?
Amber Taylor (03:05):
It's almost like it felt impossible or it felt
not worth it because you know Imight have five or ten dollars
at the end of the week kind ofthing.
So it almost felt not evenworth it to save.
And so we just didn't bother.
Chris Hawkins (03:19):
For me, it was the idea that, well, you've got
to pay the mortgage, you've gotto pay this, you've got to pay
this, you've got to pay this,and you go down the list, you do
a budget.
And there's certain things thatyou kind of have to do.
And in my mindset, and I thinkin most people's mindset, it's
taking care of those essentialsfirst.
And by the way, yes, having aroof over your head, having food
(03:41):
in your stomach, utilities,those things are extremely
important, but I never couldreally wrap my head around the
idea of pay yourself first, aterm that I think all of us have
heard.
And early in my journey, I dida lot of reading and I came
across the wealthy barber.
There's a chapter in therewhere the wealthy barber is
teaching his mentees the idea ofsaving first, and then you will
(04:04):
learn to live on what's leftover.
And I thought, man, is thattrue or not?
Well, it is true.
And I've since read it, and Ithink the term first came up in
the richest man in Babylon.
Amber Taylor (04:15):
Yeah.
Chris Hawkins (04:16):
A great book, and that's a theme that comes up
multiple times in that series ofshort stories.
The idea of paying yourselffirst, and then you will learn
to live on what's left over.
And once I kind of got my headaround that this was possible
and other people were doing it,it became a lot easier.
Yeah.
Kati Hatfield (04:31):
Yeah.
I was always a if I have money,it's burning a hole in my
pocket.
That was like I couldn't spendit fast enough, so there was
never time to save anything.
Because if I saw that I had it,I was like, oh, well, then I
can buy this.
And I had to unlearn that.
Brad Nelson (04:50):
Let's be real.
I mean, I remember feeling likesaving was just boring.
It was it's just boring.
Like I would rather spend themoney, like you just said,
Katie.
It's like I your money'sbowling burning the hole in your
pocket.
You want to go out and havefun.
You want to see something thatyou want to buy.
That's way more fun.
But saving itself is just, itwas just like meh, it's just not
(05:12):
a lot of fun.
So I think initially, when youget started, it's hard to get
excited about it because for alot of people, and not
everybody, but for a lot ofpeople who live paycheck to
paycheck, including myself atone time, I was living an
over-consumption lifestyle.
So it was fun to go out andspend money all the time.
And when you had to like reelthat back in a little bit, it
(05:34):
felt more restrictive and moreof less a negative thing on
saving, and that it was just,it's just this boring thing I
have to do now.
Amber Taylor (05:41):
I mean, it wasn't fun at first, but when the first
emergency happened and I hadthe money to pay for it, I was
like, oh that's why.
Brad Nelson (05:50):
Yeah, it's pretty fun, right?
Pretty fun then.
Kati Hatfield (05:52):
Yeah.
I feel like I never have tostress about emergencies.
I don't really consider a wholelot emergencies anymore because
I'm like, oh, well, I have thatin savings.
I can take care of that if, youknow, a dentist bill or
something that I wasn'texpecting is coming up.
Chris Hawkins (06:11):
Well, certainly I've had a lot of emergencies
over the last six months or so.
But going back to yourquestion, Brad, I don't think I
ever looked at savings as, oh, Idon't want to save because I
want to go out and buy it on Xflag and Z.
Because at that time I hadcredit cards.
And if I wanted something, I'djust use the credit card to go
out and buy it.
So it wasn't a matter of, oh,do I save or do I buy something?
(06:34):
Then of course it was thecredit card bill that's, oh,
well, that's gonna get paid.
And all these things on thelist are gonna get paid, and
there's nothing left over forsavings.
So the savings just neverhappened because the math wasn't
there.
Yeah right.
I knew that probably I shouldbe saving and probably should be
investing.
Those were things thateventually really were the
things that kind of got methinking, my wife and I, we do
(06:57):
very well, we do fine, and weshould have more to show for it.
And maybe I should be lookingfor a different way to manage my
money.
And that sort of really beganmy serious journey towards
getting out of debt.
But savings was more of, oh,just it's it'd be nice to have
one if I did, but I didn't.
Why?
Because I had credit card debt.
(07:18):
I had other things that werethat I was spending my money or
I should say paying bills withmy money.
And then when I finally got tothe point where I understood
what savings was for, and I hademergencies early on, and I had
the fund in place, and theneventually got out of debt, then
it's like now what I do withall this money, oh, I can save
(07:39):
it.
And then that became a newgame.
And I I've talked about thismany of the times, how many
different games that I play withmyself to keep myself
entertained, and boy, it itcertainly works gamifying
everything.
And now it's a matter of howcan I invest and how quickly can
I do the next thing.
And the next thing for me issomething adventurous, something
(07:59):
challenging.
And I've got some stuff in theworks that I can't talk about
now, but I'm quite excited ifthey end up happening.
Why?
Because I learned the habit ofsaving.
Brad Nelson (08:09):
Yeah.
Well, well, what about thispressure of let's say societal
pressure?
Credit cards are foremergencies.
Your home equity line of creditis your savings account, right?
So how for you guys, obviously,a lot of you know, we've all
been on this journey for a longtime.
How long did it take for youguys to break away from this
idea?
Because a lot of people wholive paycheck to pay paycheck or
(08:31):
who are just in that mindsetof, you know, this is kind of
what's always going to be.
Credit cards are foremergencies or debt is for
emergencies.
At what point did you guys havelike that light bulb that went
off that was like, I don't neednecessarily debt to rescue me
from that?
Because I'm sure there's a lotof people who struggle with that
because that's just what we'resold from a marketing standpoint
(08:52):
of debt and credit cards andall the other stuff that's out
there.
The financial industry has soldus this idea.
That is the thing that you fallback on, not necessarily a
savings or anything.
Amber Taylor (09:02):
Well, I mean, it's okay in the moment, but it's
you still have that stress, youstill have to pay that off.
So for us, just knowing that wehad the savings and it was just
done.
It was one and done.
Like we had the stress of theevent or the emergency that
happened, but then we didn'thave the stress of the bill of
the payment that was coming in amonth or two, you know?
(09:25):
So for us, it was really thatswitch.
And it took a minute, but itmade such a difference to just
have that cash to pay for thatthing or whatever was coming up.
Chris Hawkins (09:37):
So again, it goes back to the mindset that I knew
I should be doing betterfinancially.
And there had to be a differentway.
And that began a whole journeyof reading and listening to
podcasts and early days ofpodcasts.
I should say actuallyaudiobooks was probably more a
better description.
And realizing that there wereother people out there who were
managing their money differentlythan mine, and they were much
(09:57):
more successful than I was.
And so it wasn't a hardargument for me because I saw
what to me were facts and whatsuccessful people were doing.
And so it was not hard for meto say, I'm gonna get rid of my
credit cards, I'm gonna stopusing them for that purpose, and
I'm gonna try somethingdifferent.
Because I very quickly boughtinto the idea that my method
(10:18):
wasn't working.
Now, again, it took me severaltries to get my traction and do
it the way that I sort of do itnow because I overcomplicated
things, I tried to be toosophisticated and ended up not
working, and then I had to goback to the square one.
But the dream and the goal ofalways doing it a different way,
once I kind of set my mind toit, was there.
(10:39):
I realized though that for alot of folks that's not easy.
And I think there's some folksthat will argue to the end of
their life that they have tohave a credit card and that the
only way to live life is with acredit card.
And I guess my appeal to thoseof you out there, you know,
specifically to Brad's questionabout how hard was it for me to
change my mindset, is give it atry.
(11:00):
Give it a try, go six months,and I think you're gonna find
yourself in a much, much betterposition afterwards.
But for me, it wasn't a hardargument in my mind when I
looked at the facts.
Kati Hatfield (11:12):
And I would say if you think that credit cards
are for emergencies, what isgoing to constitute an
emergency?
Because a lot of things justhappen, and you're like, oh,
well, we'll just put it on thecredit card, and then it could
be things that aren't reallyemergencies that you're using it
for.
When you have a savingsaccount, and that's okay, is
(11:33):
this an emergency where I haveto dip into this?
Then you kind of are like, allright, well, we can put this
much cash towards it or whateverthe situation happens to be.
Brad Nelson (11:46):
When we first started, and for me, when I
first started, I felt like a lotof people I don't have any
wiggle room, I don't have anymoney to save.
It's just this is just gonna beimpossible to think about
having a couple thousand dollarsand just a savings account
seemed like just this impossiblefeat.
I'm never gonna get there.
So, can you guys share a littlebit when you guys first started
(12:07):
got started?
Because obviously people arelistening to this are probably
in very similar situations towhen we all got started.
What were some areas that youfound money in that kind of
surprised you that you couldactually start saving money to
start building this habit?
Chris Hawkins (12:21):
Well, for me, I think the big thing was being
aware.
Aware of where my money wasgoing.
And that kind of helped me tounderstand areas that I could
cut.
But more specifically, I thinkto your question, the thing that
comes to mind for me is I wouldhave a food budget.
What am I gonna spend at thegrocery store?
And we would create a menu.
(12:42):
And then from that menu, wewould figure out what
ingredients that we needed, whatsupplies you know, we needed
from the store, and then markoff the things that we had at
the house already, and then nextto what was left, a guesstimate
of what each of those itemswere gonna cost, add them up,
add the sales tax, and thenwe're gonna take X amount of
(13:02):
dollars.
Let's say we thought it wasgonna be $103.
I'm gonna take $110.
All right, that way there's alittle bit of room in case my
amount of guesstimate's off.
But if I'm more than $110,guess what?
I gotta put something back now.
We're gonna go with that oneingredient and one day and one
item on the menu.
And that taught me the value ofcash envelopes and using cash
(13:26):
to help me stick with oneparticular line item in my
budget.
And what I quickly gotperfected fairly easily is the
idea that I had money left overin that food envelope that I
could put towards savings, or inmy case, by that point,
additional debts.
But I would say if you're outthere and you're trying to find
(13:47):
a way to figure out how to save$5, $10, just start with a
dollar.
You can find it there.
And then eventually you'lllearn how to find two dollars.
It's not the magic of I've gotto come up with a thousand as
quickly as I can.
Yeah, that's sort of the goal.
But you've just got to figureout how to get started, and then
you'll eventually figure outhow to add to it, if that makes
(14:09):
sense.
Amber Taylor (14:10):
Yeah, Brad told us that we had to save money.
Um what would Brad do?
That's what we had to do.
When I joined, when we joinedRoots, that wasn't the first
thing.
So it was almost like it wasjust natural, like, okay, so
this is what he's telling us todo.
So I got to go do this.
I gotta save a thousand tothree thousand dollars and I
gotta do it in 30 days.
I was like, 30 days?
(14:30):
This is crazy.
But we did it because we justgot serious about it and we
found things around our housethat we could sell and really
honed in on the budget and kindof seeing where their money was
going.
And we were able to do it.
So having that support andaccountability really, really
helped to just kind of push usto go and do it instead of doing
it on our own.
Because we had talked aboutdoing it on our own, but we
(14:51):
never actually followed through.
Kati Hatfield (14:52):
I had to stop going to Target all the time.
I just had to back away fromthe red shopping carts and not
grab a basket and wander downevery aisle.
But it was also food choices.
It was like, all right, I don'tneed this extra bag of cookies,
or just it made me eat a littlehealthier.
And yes, for a while I waslike, all right, I'm just gonna
(15:13):
eat sandwiches and potatoesbecause that's cheap, and you
can't do that for very long.
Yeah, it's like I need tacos inthe budget, so I'm going out
for tacos at least once a weekjust to maintain my sanity.
Chris Hawkins (15:26):
But but could you have done it for 30 days to
come up with a thousand dollars?
Brad Nelson (15:30):
Yes, there.
Chris Hawkins (15:31):
That's the difference.
It is achievable, so I guessour point.
Yeah.
Brad Nelson (15:35):
Well, and I think it goes back to, you know, man,
back in the day, you're justkind of winging it.
You don't really know whatyou're supposed to be doing.
Yeah, you should be paying on,you should be paying on debt,
you should be investing, youshould be you should be saving,
you should you got all thesethings going on, and so much
stuff is going on in your brain,it's like you never really do
anything.
And so I think for me, when Ifirst got started, it it was
(15:57):
really kind of like what yousaid, Chris, earlier on is just
awareness is going back andreally looking at my spending
habits.
Where was I spending money?
How much was I spending goingout to eat, just anywhere, just
being willing to shop services,being willing to say, do we
really need this?
Do we really want this?
And it was amazing how muchmoney you were kind of able to
come up with.
But I think the big thing thatreally helped me the most, and I
(16:19):
couldn't do it right away.
And I tell people this whenroots or eventually know the
goal you know, we talk about ispay yourself first.
And when you're living paycheckto paycheck, and every dollar
has a purpose of really going topay payments and bills, there's
sometimes not a lot of moneyleft.
But eventually you get to thepoint where you pay down your
debt, and you can get to thepoint where you can pay yourself
first and make yourself thepriority.
(16:39):
But I think for me, that wasthe biggest mindset shift is
because when I was growing up, Imean, I was pretty much from
what I can remember is alwaysjust being taught like make sure
you pay your bills first, makesure you know you you take care
of your credit score, make yourpayments on time, and then you
keep what kind of is ever left.
And the sad reality though iswhat's left for most of us,
hardly anything, right?
(17:00):
And so the whole pay yourselfmentality really helped me shift
to the saving mindset of I amthe priority.
Here I am working all of thesehours, putting in all this time
to make this money, and here Iam paying everybody else, and
there's nothing left for me atthe end of the day.
And so for me, it was like ifI'm ever gonna create any sort
of financial independence, anysort of real financial future,
(17:22):
I've got to get to the pointwhere I can pay some of this
stuff down and be able to buildmy own financial life.
Chris Hawkins (17:28):
Yeah, for those of you listening, Brian just hit
the nail on the head.
What are you worth?
You've got to ask yourself thatquestion.
You go to work every day, youwork hard for your money at the
end of the day, end of themonth, end of the year, what are
you gonna have to show for it?
And if you need to, go set up asavings account at a bank
(17:50):
that's not nearby, but nearbyenough that if you had an
emergency, you could go there,right?
And and don't set up any Zellor automatic transfers in and
out and have your employer put$100 per paycheck or $50 per
paycheck into that savingsaccount.
The important thing is itdoesn't hit your checking
account.
And if it's not there and it'sout of mind and out of sight,
and it's a little bit difficultto go and get, you might just
(18:13):
find that it stays there.
It stays in that savingsaccount, and you learn the
lesson that ooh, I can live on$50 less this paycheck, or I can
live on a hundred dollars lessthis paycheck.
Give it a try.
The worst thing that can happenis this month it doesn't work,
and you have to go get thathundred dollars out of the
savings account and use it.
I think you can figure it out,and I think that you can make it
(18:36):
work.
But at least there's a littlebit of a safety net if you feel
like you need to go back and dothat.
Kati Hatfield (18:42):
I know I've grown mine from probably $50 a month
to $450 a month that I put awayall the time just because it was
a gradual increase, but I hadto start somewhere.
And yeah, the $50, then $100,then okay, a little bit more is
not going to hurt.
Like I I have the wiggle room,and now I just automatically 10%
(19:06):
of my paycheck justautomatically, as soon as my
paycheck hits my checkingaccount, it goes 10% into
savings.
Like it doesn't even show up onmy regular account balance.
Brad Nelson (19:18):
Yeah.
And I think that's where itstarts.
It's like you said, Katie, youknow, you started out small.
That's the thing that I wouldrecommend to all of you who are
listening to this who are justgetting started, maybe feel like
there isn't a lot of moneythere, is just start out with a
small amount and see how itgrows.
And you can even stick with asmall amount.
And I've talked about this afew times on the show, but one
of the things that I did when Igot out of debt was I wanted to
(19:39):
start saving money and puttingaway money for my kids to get
started on early retirementsavings, or if they want to use
the money to put on, you know,for a house down payment
eventually one day.
And all I do is put away asmall amount of money every
single month.
And every single month, I it'sjust automatic.
I don't pay attention to it.
I just the other day I go andlook at that because I don't
really look at it that much.
(20:00):
I just put that money away.
It's in an investment account,it's in investments.
I look at it once a year.
The other day I went and lookedat it.
I was like, holy crap, I likeit's pretty amazing.
If something as small as thatcan grow as big as it is, you
know, my daughter's gonna be,you know, she's over seven now,
and I've been doing this sinceshe's been at birth.
And going in and looking atthat, I'm like, that's just
(20:21):
amazing what you're able to dowith just a small amount of
money.
So don't think that it has tobe like this huge amount to make
it worthwhile.
It could be something reallyminimal.
It's all about creating justthe regular habit that's
important.
One other thing you guys can dotoo, and I know Chris, you guys
talked about this in one ofyour episodes of Gamifying Your
(20:41):
Finances and really making agame, Amber.
We've talked about it manytimes when you guys were saving
for your house down payment.
You guys created a chart.
Daniel and Lori, who are Rootsmembers, they've been on our
podcast several times.
They became debt-free goingthrough roots.
And one of the things that theydid was they challenged
themselves.
They came up with these savingschallenges between each other,
and they would give each other acertain amount of allowance,
(21:01):
and they were allowed to spendit.
It wasn't like, you know, youhad to save it.
It wasn't a savings challenge.
It was, hey, this is youramount of pocket money or
allowance for the week to spendon whatever you want.
But what they did is theyalmost reverse psychology.
It's like they challenge eachother to see who wouldn't spend
a lot.
And eventually what they endedup doing was taking that money
(21:22):
and putting that money intosavings, and they created it
into a savings challenge.
So one of the things I'drecommend is make it fun.
Look at your budget, look atthe things that you were
spending money on, and say,could we instead maybe not go
out to eat for 30 days, do a30-day no-spend challenge, going
out to eat, and take thatamount of money that you're
normally spending and put itinto your savings.
Or it could be othercategories.
(21:43):
It doesn't have to be out toeat, could be coffee, could be
anything, but make it somewhatof a challenge.
Make it fun, make it somewhatexciting and to motivate you to
want to do it.
Kati Hatfield (21:52):
I liked the snowball stickers when I was
first getting started.
I needed that visual of like,okay, I'm putting this much
toward savings and I'm payingthis much off for debt.
And it just, you just love towatch those snowballs grow.
Chris Hawkins (22:07):
So in essence, it sounds like it were it was a
savings challenge, but reallywhat it was was a discipline
challenge.
Yeah, for sure.
Or an accountability challenge,or I don't want to let my
partner down challenge.
Brad Nelson (22:17):
Yeah, and they got and they got serious about it.
Amber Taylor (22:20):
They did.
Oh, yeah, they got prettycompetitive.
Brad Nelson (22:22):
Oh, yeah.
And they would report everyweek who won.
And yeah, it was cool, but it'sjust an idea to gamify it, to
make it somewhat challenging, tomake it exciting.
Again, they're both workingtowards a common goal.
There's just a lot of thingsthat you could do within your
finances to take kind of theboringness out of it and make it
a little bit challenging.
Make it a game, and it's a lotmore fun.
Chris Hawkins (22:44):
But they had a common goal that they were both
working towards together, andthat's the fact that made it
worthwhile.
And they probably would not goback and change a single thing
about what they did.
Brad Nelson (22:54):
All right, guys, if you are ready to break free
from living paycheck topaycheck, you want to reduce
financial stress, build savings,and finally pay off for debt
for good.
But again, maybe you're notsure where to get started.
Don't worry.
We've got you covered.
Simplify My Money is sent toyou each and every Sunday to
your email.
It is your step-by-step roadmapto better financial control,
(23:14):
and you're also gonna learn someeasy to follow strategies to
manage your money effectively.
It's gonna help you makestress-free money decisions that
are gonna help you simplifyyour financial life with proven
tips that actually work, andyou're gonna gain the tools and
the confidence to tackle yourfinancial goals head on.
You can sign up for Simplify MyMoney by clicking the link at
the top of the show notes.
Announcer (23:38):
Let's talk about death, baby.
Let's talk about your birthday.
Let's talk about all the goodthings.
Let's talk about dead.
Let's talk about dead.
Amber Taylor (23:59):
And that's how means it's time for the
celebrations of the show.
First, we have Vanessa, as ofAugust 1st, since joining Roots
almost one year ago, has paiddown $46,202.19 and added
$9,568.76 to savings.
This includes an emergency fundof $4,635.
Brad Nelson (24:21):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And one year a $57,000 swing,which is absolutely incredible,
Vanessa.
Congratulations.
Brenda Philhauer made sure notto purchase a takeout food from
DoorDash this past week,although sometimes uses it for
groceries that are in thebudget.
Well, that's all right.
Hey, it's planned for.
Great job, Brenda.
Chris Hawkins (24:42):
And Misty, they eat before they go grocery
shopping.
There's another great tip.
Don't go to the grocery storewhen you are hungry because you
will grab that bag of cookies orpotato chips.
So she also takes the list andshe sticks to it.
Brad Nelson (24:55):
Awesome, awesome tips, Misty.
Congrats.
As always, guys,congratulations to all of you
guys who are taking a stand foryour financial life and are
wanting better.
Hey, we get that getting out ofdebt isn't easy, but with our
help and with your consistencyand discipline, we promised you
guys this can be some of thebest work that you guys do in
your entire life.
Thanks for joining us ontoday's show, and we will see
you guys on the next episode.
Announcer (25:22):
Thanks for listening to the Debt Free Dad podcast.
Connect with us on Facebook,TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram.
Just search Debt Free Dad.
If you found value in today'sepisode, please leave us a
rating and review.
We so appreciate it.
For resources, show notes, andlinks mentioned in today's show,
visit debtfreedad.com.
(25:43):
Catch you next week.
So, if you've ever said that you'll start saving
when things calm down or once Imake a little bit more money, I
hate to break it to you.
That time is never going tocome.
There's always going to besomething competing for your
money.
But here is the good news youdon't need a lot of money to
start saving.
You just need the habit.
In today's episode, we're goingto be talking about why most
(00:24):
people struggle to save, how tobuild a simple saving system
that actually sticks, and how tomake saving fun again.
Because once you build thehabit, even in small ways,
everything in your financiallife can begin to change.
Announcer (00:42):
You're listening to the Debt Free Dad podcast with
Brad Nelson.
Brad and his co-hostsexperience the anxiety of living
paycheck to paycheck beforelearning the fundamentals of
financial success.
They are now on a mission toempower regular people to pay
off their debt for good andenjoy happier, less stressful
lives.
Keep listening forinspirational interviews, tips,
(01:04):
tricks, and practical advice togain financial freedom.
Brad Nelson (01:09):
Hey guys, welcome to today's show.
I am Brad Nelson, founder ofDef Free Dead.
I paid off about $45,000 ofdebt.
I've been debt-free now formore than 12 years.
I've also been fortunate tohelp thousands of other people
save and pay off tens ofmillions of dollars with the
work that we do here at DefFreeDad.
Amber Taylor (01:24):
And my name is Amber Taylor, and myself and my
husband saved and paid off over$54,000 in just 20 months and
have been living debt-freeoutside of our mortgage since
2018.
Chris Hawkins (01:35):
And I am Chris Hawkins, and my wife and I
started our journey 20 years agoin 2005.
And over a three-year period,we paid off just under $100,000
in debt.
And we have been debt-freeexcept for our mortgage ever
since.
Kati Hatfield (01:51):
And I'm Katie Hatfield, and I am still on my
journey to debt freedom.
And in the last seven years, ona single income, I have paid
off $237,660 in student loans,car loans, medical bills, and
credit card debt.
Brad Nelson (02:08):
Now, guys, after listening to this episode, if
you are ready to take things tothe next level, you're ready to
break free from living paycheckto paycheck.
You want to reduce financialstress, you want to build a
savings, finally pay off yourdebt for good.
But again, maybe you're notquite sure where to get started.
Heck, that's why you might belistening to this show.
We've also created someincredible free resources to
(02:30):
help you get started, and we'llbe sharing some details about
how you can get some of thoselater on in today's episode.
So, guys, today we're talkingabout one of my most favorite
topics to talk about because Iused to be terrible at saving
money.
And I think most people wholive paycheck to paycheck,
people who get started on theroad to getting out of debt,
(02:51):
saving is a habit that you haveto create.
And I can relate to a lot ofpeople who are like, man, no
matter what I do, no matter whatI try, I just can't save any
money.
Can you guys relate to thatwhen you first started?
Amber Taylor (03:05):
It's almost like it felt impossible or it felt
not worth it because you know Imight have five or ten dollars
at the end of the week kind ofthing.
So it almost felt not evenworth it to save.
And so we just didn't bother.
Chris Hawkins (03:19):
For me, it was the idea that, well, you've got
to pay the mortgage, you've gotto pay this, you've got to pay
this, you've got to pay this,and you go down the list, you do
a budget.
And there's certain things thatyou kind of have to do.
And in my mindset, and I thinkin most people's mindset, it's
taking care of those essentialsfirst.
And by the way, yes, having aroof over your head, having food
(03:41):
in your stomach, utilities,those things are extremely
important, but I never couldreally wrap my head around the
idea of pay yourself first, aterm that I think all of us have
heard.
And early in my journey, I dida lot of reading and I came
across the wealthy barber.
There's a chapter in therewhere the wealthy barber is
teaching his mentees the idea ofsaving first, and then you will
(04:04):
learn to live on what's leftover.
And I thought, man, is thattrue or not?
Well, it is true.
And I've since read it, and Ithink the term first came up in
the richest man in Babylon.
Amber Taylor (04:15):
Yeah.
Chris Hawkins (04:16):
A great book, and that's a theme that comes up
multiple times in that series ofshort stories.
The idea of paying yourselffirst, and then you will learn
to live on what's left over.
And once I kind of got my headaround that this was possible
and other people were doing it,it became a lot easier.
Yeah.
Kati Hatfield (04:31):
Yeah.
I was always a if I have money,it's burning a hole in my
pocket.
That was like I couldn't spendit fast enough, so there was
never time to save anything.
Because if I saw that I had it,I was like, oh, well, then I
can buy this.
And I had to unlearn that.
Brad Nelson (04:50):
Let's be real.
I mean, I remember feeling likesaving was just boring.
It was it's just boring.
Like I would rather spend themoney, like you just said,
Katie.
It's like I your money'sbowling burning the hole in your
pocket.
You want to go out and havefun.
You want to see something thatyou want to buy.
That's way more fun.
But saving itself is just, itwas just like meh, it's just not
(05:12):
a lot of fun.
So I think initially, when youget started, it's hard to get
excited about it because for alot of people, and not
everybody, but for a lot ofpeople who live paycheck to
paycheck, including myself atone time, I was living an
over-consumption lifestyle.
So it was fun to go out andspend money all the time.
And when you had to like reelthat back in a little bit, it
(05:34):
felt more restrictive and moreof less a negative thing on
saving, and that it was just,it's just this boring thing I
have to do now.
Amber Taylor (05:41):
I mean, it wasn't fun at first, but when the first
emergency happened and I hadthe money to pay for it, I was
like, oh that's why.
Brad Nelson (05:50):
Yeah, it's pretty fun, right?
Pretty fun then.
Kati Hatfield (05:52):
Yeah.
I feel like I never have tostress about emergencies.
I don't really consider a wholelot emergencies anymore because
I'm like, oh, well, I have thatin savings.
I can take care of that if, youknow, a dentist bill or
something that I wasn'texpecting is coming up.
Chris Hawkins (06:11):
Well, certainly I've had a lot of emergencies
over the last six months or so.
But going back to yourquestion, Brad, I don't think I
ever looked at savings as, oh, Idon't want to save because I
want to go out and buy it on Xflag and Z.
Because at that time I hadcredit cards.
And if I wanted something, I'djust use the credit card to go
out and buy it.
So it wasn't a matter of, oh,do I save or do I buy something?
(06:34):
Then of course it was thecredit card bill that's, oh,
well, that's gonna get paid.
And all these things on thelist are gonna get paid, and
there's nothing left over forsavings.
So the savings just neverhappened because the math wasn't
there.
Yeah right.
I knew that probably I shouldbe saving and probably should be
investing.
Those were things thateventually really were the
things that kind of got methinking, my wife and I, we do
(06:57):
very well, we do fine, and weshould have more to show for it.
And maybe I should be lookingfor a different way to manage my
money.
And that sort of really beganmy serious journey towards
getting out of debt.
But savings was more of, oh,just it's it'd be nice to have
one if I did, but I didn't.
Why?
Because I had credit card debt.
(07:18):
I had other things that werethat I was spending my money or
I should say paying bills withmy money.
And then when I finally got tothe point where I understood
what savings was for, and I hademergencies early on, and I had
the fund in place, and theneventually got out of debt, then
it's like now what I do withall this money, oh, I can save
(07:39):
it.
And then that became a newgame.
And I I've talked about thismany of the times, how many
different games that I play withmyself to keep myself
entertained, and boy, it itcertainly works gamifying
everything.
And now it's a matter of howcan I invest and how quickly can
I do the next thing.
And the next thing for me issomething adventurous, something
(07:59):
challenging.
And I've got some stuff in theworks that I can't talk about
now, but I'm quite excited ifthey end up happening.
Why?
Because I learned the habit ofsaving.
Brad Nelson (08:09):
Yeah.
Well, well, what about thispressure of let's say societal
pressure?
Credit cards are foremergencies.
Your home equity line of creditis your savings account, right?
So how for you guys, obviously,a lot of you know, we've all
been on this journey for a longtime.
How long did it take for youguys to break away from this
idea?
Because a lot of people wholive paycheck to pay paycheck or
(08:31):
who are just in that mindsetof, you know, this is kind of
what's always going to be.
Credit cards are foremergencies or debt is for
emergencies.
At what point did you guys havelike that light bulb that went
off that was like, I don't neednecessarily debt to rescue me
from that?
Because I'm sure there's a lotof people who struggle with that
because that's just what we'resold from a marketing standpoint
(08:52):
of debt and credit cards andall the other stuff that's out
there.
The financial industry has soldus this idea.
That is the thing that you fallback on, not necessarily a
savings or anything.
Amber Taylor (09:02):
Well, I mean, it's okay in the moment, but it's
you still have that stress, youstill have to pay that off.
So for us, just knowing that wehad the savings and it was just
done.
It was one and done.
Like we had the stress of theevent or the emergency that
happened, but then we didn'thave the stress of the bill of
the payment that was coming in amonth or two, you know?
(09:25):
So for us, it was really thatswitch.
And it took a minute, but itmade such a difference to just
have that cash to pay for thatthing or whatever was coming up.
Chris Hawkins (09:37):
So again, it goes back to the mindset that I knew
I should be doing betterfinancially.
And there had to be a differentway.
And that began a whole journeyof reading and listening to
podcasts and early days ofpodcasts.
I should say actuallyaudiobooks was probably more a
better description.
And realizing that there wereother people out there who were
managing their money differentlythan mine, and they were much
(09:57):
more successful than I was.
And so it wasn't a hardargument for me because I saw
what to me were facts and whatsuccessful people were doing.
And so it was not hard for meto say, I'm gonna get rid of my
credit cards, I'm gonna stopusing them for that purpose, and
I'm gonna try somethingdifferent.
Because I very quickly boughtinto the idea that my method
(10:18):
wasn't working.
Now, again, it took me severaltries to get my traction and do
it the way that I sort of do itnow because I overcomplicated
things, I tried to be toosophisticated and ended up not
working, and then I had to goback to the square one.
But the dream and the goal ofalways doing it a different way,
once I kind of set my mind toit, was there.
(10:39):
I realized though that for alot of folks that's not easy.
And I think there's some folksthat will argue to the end of
their life that they have tohave a credit card and that the
only way to live life is with acredit card.
And I guess my appeal to thoseof you out there, you know,
specifically to Brad's questionabout how hard was it for me to
change my mindset, is give it atry.
(11:00):
Give it a try, go six months,and I think you're gonna find
yourself in a much, much betterposition afterwards.
But for me, it wasn't a hardargument in my mind when I
looked at the facts.
Kati Hatfield (11:12):
And I would say if you think that credit cards
are for emergencies, what isgoing to constitute an
emergency?
Because a lot of things justhappen, and you're like, oh,
well, we'll just put it on thecredit card, and then it could
be things that aren't reallyemergencies that you're using it
for.
When you have a savingsaccount, and that's okay, is
(11:33):
this an emergency where I haveto dip into this?
Then you kind of are like, allright, well, we can put this
much cash towards it or whateverthe situation happens to be.
Brad Nelson (11:46):
When we first started, and for me, when I
first started, I felt like a lotof people I don't have any
wiggle room, I don't have anymoney to save.
It's just this is just gonna beimpossible to think about
having a couple thousand dollarsand just a savings account
seemed like just this impossiblefeat.
I'm never gonna get there.
So, can you guys share a littlebit when you guys first started
(12:07):
got started?
Because obviously people arelistening to this are probably
in very similar situations towhen we all got started.
What were some areas that youfound money in that kind of
surprised you that you couldactually start saving money to
start building this habit?
Chris Hawkins (12:21):
Well, for me, I think the big thing was being
aware.
Aware of where my money wasgoing.
And that kind of helped me tounderstand areas that I could
cut.
But more specifically, I thinkto your question, the thing that
comes to mind for me is I wouldhave a food budget.
What am I gonna spend at thegrocery store?
And we would create a menu.
(12:42):
And then from that menu, wewould figure out what
ingredients that we needed, whatsupplies you know, we needed
from the store, and then markoff the things that we had at
the house already, and then nextto what was left, a guesstimate
of what each of those itemswere gonna cost, add them up,
add the sales tax, and thenwe're gonna take X amount of
(13:02):
dollars.
Let's say we thought it wasgonna be $103.
I'm gonna take $110.
All right, that way there's alittle bit of room in case my
amount of guesstimate's off.
But if I'm more than $110,guess what?
I gotta put something back now.
We're gonna go with that oneingredient and one day and one
item on the menu.
And that taught me the value ofcash envelopes and using cash
(13:26):
to help me stick with oneparticular line item in my
budget.
And what I quickly gotperfected fairly easily is the
idea that I had money left overin that food envelope that I
could put towards savings, or inmy case, by that point,
additional debts.
But I would say if you're outthere and you're trying to find
(13:47):
a way to figure out how to save$5, $10, just start with a
dollar.
You can find it there.
And then eventually you'lllearn how to find two dollars.
It's not the magic of I've gotto come up with a thousand as
quickly as I can.
Yeah, that's sort of the goal.
But you've just got to figureout how to get started, and then
you'll eventually figure outhow to add to it, if that makes
(14:09):
sense.
Amber Taylor (14:10):
Yeah, Brad told us that we had to save money.
Um what would Brad do?
That's what we had to do.
When I joined, when we joinedRoots, that wasn't the first
thing.
So it was almost like it wasjust natural, like, okay, so
this is what he's telling us todo.
So I got to go do this.
I gotta save a thousand tothree thousand dollars and I
gotta do it in 30 days.
I was like, 30 days?
(14:30):
This is crazy.
But we did it because we justgot serious about it and we
found things around our housethat we could sell and really
honed in on the budget and kindof seeing where their money was
going.
And we were able to do it.
So having that support andaccountability really, really
helped to just kind of push usto go and do it instead of doing
it on our own.
Because we had talked aboutdoing it on our own, but we
(14:51):
never actually followed through.
Kati Hatfield (14:52):
I had to stop going to Target all the time.
I just had to back away fromthe red shopping carts and not
grab a basket and wander downevery aisle.
But it was also food choices.
It was like, all right, I don'tneed this extra bag of cookies,
or just it made me eat a littlehealthier.
And yes, for a while I waslike, all right, I'm just gonna
(15:13):
eat sandwiches and potatoesbecause that's cheap, and you
can't do that for very long.
Yeah, it's like I need tacos inthe budget, so I'm going out
for tacos at least once a weekjust to maintain my sanity.
Chris Hawkins (15:26):
But but could you have done it for 30 days to
come up with a thousand dollars?
Brad Nelson (15:30):
Yes, there.
Chris Hawkins (15:31):
That's the difference.
It is achievable, so I guessour point.
Yeah.
Brad Nelson (15:35):
Well, and I think it goes back to, you know, man,
back in the day, you're justkind of winging it.
You don't really know whatyou're supposed to be doing.
Yeah, you should be paying on,you should be paying on debt,
you should be investing, youshould be you should be saving,
you should you got all thesethings going on, and so much
stuff is going on in your brain,it's like you never really do
anything.
And so I think for me, when Ifirst got started, it it was
(15:57):
really kind of like what yousaid, Chris, earlier on is just
awareness is going back andreally looking at my spending
habits.
Where was I spending money?
How much was I spending goingout to eat, just anywhere, just
being willing to shop services,being willing to say, do we
really need this?
Do we really want this?
And it was amazing how muchmoney you were kind of able to
come up with.
But I think the big thing thatreally helped me the most, and I
(16:19):
couldn't do it right away.
And I tell people this whenroots or eventually know the
goal you know, we talk about ispay yourself first.
And when you're living paycheckto paycheck, and every dollar
has a purpose of really going topay payments and bills, there's
sometimes not a lot of moneyleft.
But eventually you get to thepoint where you pay down your
debt, and you can get to thepoint where you can pay yourself
first and make yourself thepriority.
(16:39):
But I think for me, that wasthe biggest mindset shift is
because when I was growing up, Imean, I was pretty much from
what I can remember is alwaysjust being taught like make sure
you pay your bills first, makesure you know you you take care
of your credit score, make yourpayments on time, and then you
keep what kind of is ever left.
And the sad reality though iswhat's left for most of us,
hardly anything, right?
(17:00):
And so the whole pay yourselfmentality really helped me shift
to the saving mindset of I amthe priority.
Here I am working all of thesehours, putting in all this time
to make this money, and here Iam paying everybody else, and
there's nothing left for me atthe end of the day.
And so for me, it was like ifI'm ever gonna create any sort
of financial independence, anysort of real financial future,
(17:22):
I've got to get to the pointwhere I can pay some of this
stuff down and be able to buildmy own financial life.
Chris Hawkins (17:28):
Yeah, for those of you listening, Brian just hit
the nail on the head.
What are you worth?
You've got to ask yourself thatquestion.
You go to work every day, youwork hard for your money at the
end of the day, end of themonth, end of the year, what are
you gonna have to show for it?
And if you need to, go set up asavings account at a bank
(17:50):
that's not nearby, but nearbyenough that if you had an
emergency, you could go there,right?
And and don't set up any Zellor automatic transfers in and
out and have your employer put$100 per paycheck or $50 per
paycheck into that savingsaccount.
The important thing is itdoesn't hit your checking
account.
And if it's not there and it'sout of mind and out of sight,
and it's a little bit difficultto go and get, you might just
(18:13):
find that it stays there.
It stays in that savingsaccount, and you learn the
lesson that ooh, I can live on$50 less this paycheck, or I can
live on a hundred dollars lessthis paycheck.
Give it a try.
The worst thing that can happenis this month it doesn't work,
and you have to go get thathundred dollars out of the
savings account and use it.
I think you can figure it out,and I think that you can make it
(18:36):
work.
But at least there's a littlebit of a safety net if you feel
like you need to go back and dothat.
Kati Hatfield (18:42):
I know I've grown mine from probably $50 a month
to $450 a month that I put awayall the time just because it was
a gradual increase, but I hadto start somewhere.
And yeah, the $50, then $100,then okay, a little bit more is
not going to hurt.
Like I I have the wiggle room,and now I just automatically 10%
(19:06):
of my paycheck justautomatically, as soon as my
paycheck hits my checkingaccount, it goes 10% into
savings.
Like it doesn't even show up onmy regular account balance.
Brad Nelson (19:18):
Yeah.
And I think that's where itstarts.
It's like you said, Katie, youknow, you started out small.
That's the thing that I wouldrecommend to all of you who are
listening to this who are justgetting started, maybe feel like
there isn't a lot of moneythere, is just start out with a
small amount and see how itgrows.
And you can even stick with asmall amount.
And I've talked about this afew times on the show, but one
of the things that I did when Igot out of debt was I wanted to
(19:39):
start saving money and puttingaway money for my kids to get
started on early retirementsavings, or if they want to use
the money to put on, you know,for a house down payment
eventually one day.
And all I do is put away asmall amount of money every
single month.
And every single month, I it'sjust automatic.
I don't pay attention to it.
I just the other day I go andlook at that because I don't
really look at it that much.
(20:00):
I just put that money away.
It's in an investment account,it's in investments.
I look at it once a year.
The other day I went and lookedat it.
I was like, holy crap, I likeit's pretty amazing.
If something as small as thatcan grow as big as it is, you
know, my daughter's gonna be,you know, she's over seven now,
and I've been doing this sinceshe's been at birth.
And going in and looking atthat, I'm like, that's just
(20:21):
amazing what you're able to dowith just a small amount of
money.
So don't think that it has tobe like this huge amount to make
it worthwhile.
It could be something reallyminimal.
It's all about creating justthe regular habit that's
important.
One other thing you guys can dotoo, and I know Chris, you guys
talked about this in one ofyour episodes of Gamifying Your
(20:41):
Finances and really making agame, Amber.
We've talked about it manytimes when you guys were saving
for your house down payment.
You guys created a chart.
Daniel and Lori, who are Rootsmembers, they've been on our
podcast several times.
They became debt-free goingthrough roots.
And one of the things that theydid was they challenged
themselves.
They came up with these savingschallenges between each other,
and they would give each other acertain amount of allowance,
(21:01):
and they were allowed to spendit.
It wasn't like, you know, youhad to save it.
It wasn't a savings challenge.
It was, hey, this is youramount of pocket money or
allowance for the week to spendon whatever you want.
But what they did is theyalmost reverse psychology.
It's like they challenge eachother to see who wouldn't spend
a lot.
And eventually what they endedup doing was taking that money
(21:22):
and putting that money intosavings, and they created it
into a savings challenge.
So one of the things I'drecommend is make it fun.
Look at your budget, look atthe things that you were
spending money on, and say,could we instead maybe not go
out to eat for 30 days, do a30-day no-spend challenge, going
out to eat, and take thatamount of money that you're
normally spending and put itinto your savings.
Or it could be othercategories.
(21:43):
It doesn't have to be out toeat, could be coffee, could be
anything, but make it somewhatof a challenge.
Make it fun, make it somewhatexciting and to motivate you to
want to do it.
Kati Hatfield (21:52):
I liked the snowball stickers when I was
first getting started.
I needed that visual of like,okay, I'm putting this much
toward savings and I'm payingthis much off for debt.
And it just, you just love towatch those snowballs grow.
Chris Hawkins (22:07):
So in essence, it sounds like it were it was a
savings challenge, but reallywhat it was was a discipline
challenge.
Yeah, for sure.
Or an accountability challenge,or I don't want to let my
partner down challenge.
Brad Nelson (22:17):
Yeah, and they got and they got serious about it.
Amber Taylor (22:20):
They did.
Oh, yeah, they got prettycompetitive.
Brad Nelson (22:22):
Oh, yeah.
And they would report everyweek who won.
And yeah, it was cool, but it'sjust an idea to gamify it, to
make it somewhat challenging, tomake it exciting.
Again, they're both workingtowards a common goal.
There's just a lot of thingsthat you could do within your
finances to take kind of theboringness out of it and make it
a little bit challenging.
Make it a game, and it's a lotmore fun.
Chris Hawkins (22:44):
But they had a common goal that they were both
working towards together, andthat's the fact that made it
worthwhile.
And they probably would not goback and change a single thing
about what they did.
Brad Nelson (22:54):
All right, guys, if you are ready to break free
from living paycheck topaycheck, you want to reduce
financial stress, build savings,and finally pay off for debt
for good.
But again, maybe you're notsure where to get started.
Don't worry.
We've got you covered.
Simplify My Money is sent toyou each and every Sunday to
your email.
It is your step-by-step roadmapto better financial control,
(23:14):
and you're also gonna learn someeasy to follow strategies to
manage your money effectively.
It's gonna help you makestress-free money decisions that
are gonna help you simplifyyour financial life with proven
tips that actually work, andyou're gonna gain the tools and
the confidence to tackle yourfinancial goals head on.
You can sign up for Simplify MyMoney by clicking the link at
the top of the show notes.
Announcer (23:38):
Let's talk about death, baby.
Let's talk about your birthday.
Let's talk about all the goodthings.
Let's talk about dead.
Let's talk about dead.
Amber Taylor (23:59):
And that's how means it's time for the
celebrations of the show.
First, we have Vanessa, as ofAugust 1st, since joining Roots
almost one year ago, has paiddown $46,202.19 and added
$9,568.76 to savings.
This includes an emergency fundof $4,635.
Brad Nelson (24:21):
Yeah, that's incredible.
And one year a $57,000 swing,which is absolutely incredible,
Vanessa.
Congratulations.
Brenda Philhauer made sure notto purchase a takeout food from
DoorDash this past week,although sometimes uses it for
groceries that are in thebudget.
Well, that's all right.
Hey, it's planned for.
Great job, Brenda.
Chris Hawkins (24:42):
And Misty, they eat before they go grocery
shopping.
There's another great tip.
Don't go to the grocery storewhen you are hungry because you
will grab that bag of cookies orpotato chips.
So she also takes the list andshe sticks to it.
Brad Nelson (24:55):
Awesome, awesome tips, Misty.
Congrats.
As always, guys,congratulations to all of you
guys who are taking a stand foryour financial life and are
wanting better.
Hey, we get that getting out ofdebt isn't easy, but with our
help and with your consistencyand discipline, we promised you
guys this can be some of thebest work that you guys do in
your entire life.
Thanks for joining us ontoday's show, and we will see
you guys on the next episode.
Announcer (25:22):
Thanks for listening to the Debt Free Dad podcast.
Connect with us on Facebook,TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram.
Just search Debt Free Dad.
If you found value in today'sepisode, please leave us a
rating and review.
We so appreciate it.
For resources, show notes, andlinks mentioned in today's show,
visit debtfreedad.com.
(25:43):
Catch you next week.
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