September 30, 2025 • 28 mins
On this special episode of The Deeply Devoted Podcast, we’ll learn more about Grace Marriage, a new marriage discipleship opportunity launching this fall at E-Free Bemidji.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:19):
Hey folks, you're listening to episode 50 of the deeply devoted
podcast The Ministry of the E Free Church of Bemidji, MN.
My name is Eric Nygren. I'm one of the pastors on staff
here at E Free Bemidji and todayon our podcast, we've got a very
special guest special episode planned for our listeners today.
(00:40):
This fall here at our church, weare inviting married couples to
come check out something brand new, something called Grace
Marriage, which is a new marriage discipleship
opportunity that we are offeringand launching here this fall.
And joining me today on our podcast remotely via Zoom is
(01:00):
Nikki Tabor, who serves as a church support and connections
representative at Grace Marriage.
And so I'm so excited to talk with Nikki today so that our
church can learn more about thisreally incredible opportunity
for our church family. So, Nikki, welcome to our
(01:20):
podcast. Yeah.
Thank you so much, Eric. It's been so great working with
you so far, just planning this new discipleship pathway for
your church and investing in marriages.
Yeah, Nikki and I have had a fewconversations along the way to
get this thing going. Everything from what is it going
to take for us to get this started and to how's it going to
(01:41):
integrate into what we're already doing in our church.
And so this episode really for our church family is to kind of
give a big picture of of what this is all about.
Now, just to give a little context, last spring I was
attending the Gospel Coalition Conference out in Indianapolis.
And if if you've ever been to a conference like this, you walk
(02:02):
into an exhibit hall, there are tons and tons of exhibitors and
vendors and ministries. And that's where I learned about
grace marriage for the first time.
And to be honest, with so many tables and vendors, I probably
would have walked right by because I wasn't familiar with
the ministry. But what stopped me was a
conversation I had with a representative that was there
(02:25):
that day. And they asked me a question,
something like, what does your church do to disciple married
couples in between premarital counseling and crisis care?
And I remember stopping and thinking that is a really good
question. And I don't know that I have a
really good answer to that. And so it got me thinking about
(02:45):
this concept of, of marriage discipleship.
Nikki, as we get started here, would you just give us kind of a
an overview of what Grace Marriage is and maybe a little
bit about how this ministry cameabout?
Yeah, absolutely. And Eric, I'm sure as you know,
you're among the majority of churches not having to answer
that question because 72% of ourchurches in America do not have
(03:09):
any substantive ongoing marriagediscipleship between that
premarital and crisis care. Most churches don't have
anything that they're doing on aconsistent basis.
So that's kind of where Grace Marriage got its start.
We are a marriage ministry that serves churches in providing
ongoing discipleship and investment for marriages.
(03:31):
So we have 7 years of curriculum, but it's designed to
create a space for couples to come together and intentionally
work on their marriage and invest in it.
So it's not about crisis or being in a situation of
struggle, it's more about how dowe really strengthen this
relationship and be intentional in developing our relationship
(03:53):
so that when we come across struggles, we have a strong
foundation. Interestingly enough, Grace
Marriage was born out of Brad and Marilyn's first year of
marriage being a huge struggle for them.
Brad, Marilyn Rhodes are the Co founders of Grace Marriage and
they share their story. They have a book, but they in
(04:17):
their first year, Marilyn said, you know, Brad was really great
when we were dating. It was fun, he was romantic, it
was so exciting, she said. Then we got married and he
became the budget man and he didn't really know what it was
like to prioritize connection and just that family of origin
kind of came into play and all of those differences became
(04:39):
glaringly obvious. And it was during Maryland, her
quiet time with the Lord that she came to this, you know, kind
of conclusion that I'm going to love you and be the best wife
that I can, but I'm going to focus on my relationship with
God and let that fulfill me. I'm no longer going to come to
you for these things. That was kind of a wake up
(05:00):
moment for Brad of like, yes. And also I need to be a husband
that you can come to. And so Fast forward 10 years,
they have a marriage that is, you know, just beautiful and joy
filled. And people started coming to
them for premarital counseling, which led to Brad becoming the
marriage pastor at his church. And so we just celebrated the 10
(05:24):
year anniversary of grace marriage being available in
churches and this ministry beingsomething that we can impact
more than just the families at the church that Brad's the
pastor at. So that's really where it came
from is how do we take that grace and extend it into our
marriages. Yeah, I like how you said that,
(05:45):
just that it's an opportunity for couples to invest in their
marriage. And that's really what what I've
been thinking about, even even as I've been thinking about how
will this opportunity be a blessing to couples in our
church family. I can't help but think just as a
husband, as I've been talking with my own wife about, well,
(06:08):
this is something that that we want to be a part of too, not
just in a leadership capacity, but but as a participant.
And we'll, we'll get into some of what it really looks like
here. But sometimes we think of these
things as these things are offered for those couples that
are in trouble or near trouble. And, and, and certainly I'm sure
(06:29):
this would be a blessing for couples that might find
themselves in a tough spot. But I, but I hope that as we go
through this, that that folks will understand this is this is
for all of the above. This is for everybody.
Absolutely. Yeah, so as I was looking
through the the material, Nikki,there's a phrase that just keeps
popping up and it pops up even early in, in what we're going to
(06:51):
work through here this fall. And it's this phrase grace based
marriage. And and so Nikki, I, I know that
we'll again, we'll, we'll touch on that in some of our sessions,
but would you mind just kind of giving us a preview of what that
means, that idea of a, of a grace based marriage?
Yeah, absolutely. So the whole kind of summation
(07:14):
of grace marriage is this idea of living out the gospel in your
marriage, the grace that we received from Christ, the
salvation that we receive and that we are not perfect and we
are so loved in that we how do we take that grace and then
extend that to our spouse? Because we're two imperfect
people making a life together. So often our culture is this
(07:38):
performance base. We're performance driven.
If you do good, then I will do good to you.
And so we get caught in that cycle in our marriages.
We get caught in that cycle justin life.
And so grace marriage is consistently coming back to this
idea of how do we shift our focus?
How do we go from this performance based model to if
(07:59):
you do good to me, I will do good to you and shift that to
the idea that we are extending grace because our spouse,
because we love them, because they're created in God's image.
How do we reach across those barriers when they're having a
bad day and reach out to them and love them and extend grace
and say, I'm still going to be here.
(08:21):
I'm still going to treat you theway that I would on the days you
come home in a good mood. Not excusing bad behavior or
poor treatment of us, but extending and recognizing the
humanity in our spouse. And how do we love them in those
moments of of difficulty? Yeah, I think that was also one
of the the things that really attracted me to learn more about
(08:44):
this ministry is just how how the gospel was so central in, in
a marriage curriculum, just eventhe the idea of marriage
discipleship. I know that the word
discipleship can be a buzzword in ministries and you just can
tack it on to the end of anything and everything becomes
discipleship. But this one really, as I looked
(09:07):
at it and kind of evaluated it, just as you're talking about
just the gospel is very central and the message of grace is, is
really a central concept in this.
And that that's really intriguing to me.
Well, I'm, I'm sure this is truein, in churches, not just ours,
but churches all over. We have couples that are
(09:27):
attending our church who've beenmarried, you know, less than a
year. We have married couples that
have been attending or that havebeen married for many, many
years. And of course, everything in
between. And, and we've kind of hinted at
this a little bit already, Nikki, But, but who is grace
marriage for? Who should consider joining us
(09:47):
this fall? Yeah, if you're married, then
Grace, marriage is for you. I would say, you know, you
wouldn't as a parent say, I don't know, maybe I'll send my
kid to children's ministry. You have a child, they go to
children's ministry, right. Like if you are going to be a
part of the ministry, that is the season of life that you are
(10:08):
in. And so if you're a married
person, disciple your marriage, be in the marriage ministry.
I find it so interesting. You know, you mentioned tacking
on discipleship to everything. We so often disciple
individuals, and we have women'sdiscipleship and men's
discipleship. But on all of our wedding days,
we talked about joining 2 as oneand we forget to disciple the
(10:31):
unit. And so discipling ourselves
individually is great. But what does it look like to
look at discipleship from a perspective of us joining
together and operating as a unit?
And so that's really what Grace Marriage does.
So anyone who is looking to unify their marriage and figure
out how to move as a unit and work through difficulties and be
(10:54):
able to compromise well and justhave a marriage that future
generations look to and say I want that.
That looks like something that Iwould want to sign up for.
So yeah, anybody that is marriedshould be participating.
Yeah. And I'm, I'm looking forward to
being able to look around the room when we launch this and
just kind of size up what I knowof, OK, this couple here,
(11:18):
they're, they're newly married or they've, they've, they've
been here a long time and just see the diversity of, of ages
and life stages and things like that.
I'm, I'm envisioning just even as people are starting to sign
up, what that's going to look like.
And yeah, because I know just asa pastor is on a Sunday morning,
when I stand up in front of our congregation, I can, I can see
(11:39):
in a sense of, of, of who's out there and, and all these
different households and families and relationships that
are represented there. And so I, I would agree with
you. What a great way to say it.
If you're married, this is for you.
And so we've selected at our church three dates this fall.
We're going to do this monthly to start out for couples to take
(12:01):
part in, in Grace Marriage. We're going to start Friday,
October 3rd and then November 5th, 14th and then Friday,
December 12th, all Fridays, 7:00to 8:30 PM at our church.
And you know, we'll be hosting in here at our church.
But Nikki, what, what can couples expect at one of these
90 minute Grace marriage sessions?
(12:23):
What it wouldn't when they come and be a part of this?
What's What's an evening going to look like?
Probably. So in a 90 minute session, what
couples can expect is that you are going to start off focusing
on one of what we call rhythms in grace marriage.
So if you look at marriage research across the board, if
you look at studies that ask what can you do to make your
(12:45):
marriage thrive? The consistent things that come
up overall are the themes of gratitude, showing appreciation,
being grateful, extending forgiveness, communication,
developing intimacy with your communication and communicating
well and quality time investmentin that quality time in your
relationship. And so Grace Marriage curriculum
(13:06):
operates with those rhythms in mind of always wanting to start
off our session with one of those key factors.
And so you're going to start offfocusing on gratitude
communication or investment through quality time, one of
those at each session. And then you are going to dive
deeper into what we call our core lessons, which are going to
(13:28):
focus on what are the most common tension points in
marriages, things like technology, finance,
communication styles, conflict management, intimacy.
And so that's going to give you a chance as a couple to do self
reflection, looking at where you're coming from, what is your
perspective? And then how do you reach across
(13:51):
and come together with your spouse on these things?
How do you start to navigate together as a couple creating a
plan? And then you're going to find a
place to really start to make a plan and have actionable steps
that you can take into that month in between to really focus
on intentionality and investing in that part of your marriage
(14:13):
and and being able to focus on that.
Yeah, you mentioned those kind of actionable steps.
They're not just the evening we gathered together as a group,
but in addition to the sessions that we're going to host at our
church in the in the packet thatwe'll be giving our folks, the
the Grace experience packet thatwe're going to be providing.
(14:35):
There's something in there called weekly check insurance.
Nikki, can you tell us a little bit more about what those are,
what we can expect with that? Yeah, so something that you will
hear throughout Grace Marriage is intentionality.
And everything in our life takesintentionality.
If you want to get healthier, ifyou want to be a better parent,
if you want to be better at yourjob, all of those things, you
(14:57):
have to be intentional with yourtime and what you do with it.
Weekly check insurance are the tool that we have incorporated
into Grace Marriage that allows you to revisit those rhythms of
gratitude, connection or communication and investment
throughout your weeks. So weekly check insurance are
going to give you a point to setdown.
(15:19):
We usually recommend the beginning of the week because
it's a great time to start and you're going to focus on
gratitude. You're going to plan your
one-on-one time, that quality time with your spouse for the
week, whether that is a dedicated date night where
you're grabbing a babysitter andgoing out or you're just having
coffee on your patio. But making sure that you're
setting aside and planning for it because if you don't plan, it
(15:41):
probably likely won't happen. Life is going to squeeze it out.
And then it's going to give you some questions like conversation
starters where you can develop more communication to get past
the everyday just air and talk of who's getting who, where,
what appointments do you have, what's for dinner that we so
often kind of get stuck in that rut.
(16:02):
And so that's going to give you a kind of structure finality
week in and week out. Perfect.
I I'm looking forward to that. I mean, and just that idea of
intentionality and, and my personality is I'm a planner,
I'm a box checker. And but I would resonate with
that of if you, if you don't plan it, if you don't put it in
(16:24):
your calendar, if you don't makea the, the tyranny, the urgent
life, the unexpected is just going to crowd it out.
And it's easy to think, yeah, well, we'll just do that next
week and and it doesn't happen. And so I love having a tool
that's going to hold me accountable and hold, hold us
(16:46):
accountable as a couple to to again, invest in our
relationship. And so I'm so excited to to kind
of dive into this material together.
Now we know that every church isdifferent, every couple is
unique. And so, you know, we don't fully
know yet how God's going to use grace marriage at our church.
(17:08):
I'm, I'm looking forward to, youknow, three months from now to
be able to reflect back and see what the Lord has done.
But that said, I would imagine that just over wow, 10 years of
grace marriage here that you've probably heard some stories,
some testimonies from married couples and local churches about
how grace marriage has been a blessing.
(17:30):
Nikki, would you mind just sharing maybe one or two of
those stories about how you've seen God use grace marriage in
in other churches in other in other couples?
Yeah. So personally, my husband and I
are in year 8 of not only participating but facilitating
with grace marriage. And that is something that has
(17:54):
been just such a blessing to my husband and I.
We had very wise mentors in yearone of our marriage that kind of
instilled in us this idea of marriage investment.
But it wasn't until we found theGrace Marriage curriculum that
we were like, oh, this is like aconsistent thing that we can
(18:14):
incorporate in our lives. And over 8 years we have seen in
our own family. Our son is 17 now.
He's a senior and watching him in his dating life and
navigating relationships and mirroring things that he's seen
his dad and I do in our own marriage and the things that he
(18:35):
looks for and prioritizes. Even when he got his first job,
he said, now I made sure that I have Fridays off so you still
have date night because he watches his little sister.
And he was like, I got that in the schedule.
And so it's something that is impacting just the generations
around us, the young people thatare in our lives that see our
(18:57):
marriage, they see us out on date nights and they say y'all
look like you're always having agood time.
And that's something that I wantthe young people in our
community to see. I want them to see a marriage
that's vibrant. And that's what grace Marriage
has given us because we prioritize, we have
intentionality. But I've seen that over and over
again in couples. So many couples have kind of
(19:20):
started into marriage ministry and saying we know we date when
we can. But after a couple of months of
that regular investment, they'resaying, you know, we're having
weekly date nights. We remembered how fun it was to
be together and they're enjoyingtheir marriage again.
And really that's that's kind ofat the heart of everything is
(19:44):
having this marriage that you enjoy, that this is the person
that you get to do life with. Something that Brad talks about
all the time is that we are called to hold marriage in honor
above all in amongst, you know, everyone that marriage is held
in honor. And what better way for that to
(20:04):
happen? Than to have marriages that are
joyful where the spouses clearlylove and respect each other and
they're not, you know, complaining about one another.
So that's really what I've seen just consistently over and over
again and couples that have invested in their marriage is
that they have these marriages that are just joy filled and you
(20:25):
can just see it in them. So yeah, that's the that's the
biggest impact that I see. OK.
What what a great picture there.And just even as you're talking
about the generational impact, that's a little bit of my
Daydream for this ministry. Again, I don't know how the
Lord's going to use this long term in our church, but we're,
we're not opening it up to dating couples or engaged
(20:48):
couples, but I'm hoping that that there builds A reputation
that maybe some of those couplesstart to say, boy, when, when we
get married, we're going to signup and we'll, we'll be a part of
it. Or at least the concept of, as
you're saying, we, we want to invest in our marriage beyond
(21:11):
the premarital counseling from day one.
And, and, you know, just make this a priority.
And, and, and then again, to keep the, the gospel central to
keep Christ, You know, we often talk with couples that are
engaged in going through premarital counseling about
keeping Christ at the center of their marriage.
And, you know, on the front end of it.
I think that's, that's an ideal,but you don't know what you're
(21:34):
getting into yet. And so I'm so grateful for an
opportunity like this to help. Yeah.
Again, encourage and strengthen and teach and hold accountable
and all of those things that this is going to contribute to.
I can tell you I've been in student ministry for a long time
(21:55):
and currently in our marriage group, we have a couple who's in
year 1 of their marriage. They just got married.
I guess they're ready to celebrate one year.
And she was one of my students. And so she has watched Grace
marriage at our church and, you know, ministry over the years
and has seen myself and my husband and other couples that
(22:18):
have, you know, have been adult mentors for her.
And so when she got married, shewas like, this is a no brainer.
Yeah, we sign up. Of course we do this.
It was just a natural thing thatthat you are going to go into,
which is is very countercultural.
I remember the first time that my husband and I went to a
marriage retreat and a single friend of ours saw kind of like
(22:41):
a flyer for it. And he was like, y'all just got
married? Are you already having trouble?
And we were like, no, we like this is we're going to go and
invest in ourselves and take time away.
And he was like, oh, I didn't know that couples did that
right. So it is something that is very
countercultural that there is a there is a bit of a paradigm
(23:01):
that you have to break for couples that view marriage
anything past premarital as thisis because we're in trouble.
Yes, yeah. But that's just not the case.
No, it isn't. And, you know, maybe along those
lines, Nikki here, just kind of last question here as we as we
wrap up, if somebody's listeningto this and maybe they just kind
(23:24):
of feel like they're on the fence about this, You know,
maybe their spouse is interested, but they're not
quite as interested or or, you know, to be honest, maybe
there's a little bit of pride setting in like, oh, I don't
want to leave the impression that that our marriage is in
trouble or anything like that. Somebody's on the fence about
whether they participate or not.What what would you say to them
(23:46):
to just encourage them to prayerfully consider being a
part of Grace marriage this fall?
Yeah, I mean, I would, I would, my gut instinct is to say just
do it. It's a no brainer.
But really that is a reality. There is a pride issue.
There is a we're fine. And I think there is too
(24:09):
sometimes hesitancy because there's a fear of things are
going OK, Do you really want to open a can of worms?
Yeah, there is some fear there of if we get into this, we're
going to have to have hard conversations and maybe some of
those things that we've been brushing under the rug and not
discussing, that's going to that's going to get scary.
(24:30):
And so I would just encourage couples to step into it knowing
that there's going to be hard things, but this is a place
where you're going to be given the tools to have honest, open
conversations. And the thing I like about the
best is, and you'll they'll see this when they come to the Grace
experience, the worksheets are asking the questions.
(24:53):
You're not you're not bringing up the topics.
The worksheet is. And so it feels a little less
kind of antagonistic to be able to have conversations about
things that cause tension, whether it's finances or
technology or different parenting styles or
communication styles, whatever that is it.
(25:13):
It's a non threatening way to get to address these things.
And so you get to approach sort of difficult topics in a way
that feels just like, OK, this is just part of the activity and
we're just going to navigate this and you're given these
tools to do it. So it's not just opening it up
and then saying, OK, have fun with that.
(25:36):
I have heard over and over again, and this is not to
stereotype, but it's just what happens.
We see this, oftentimes husbandsare the reluctant ones, but we
hear over and over again from husbands once they get there,
they're like, man, this really was kind of fun.
I enjoyed this. So even if you're reluctant,
(25:56):
give it a try, especially with the, you know, the dates that
you're doing at the end of this year.
The Grace experience is a great way to get in there and see what
this is and just kind of kind oftake a peek in there because it
is something that most couples aren't used to.
It isn't your typical book study.
It's not your typical kind of event, just, you know, marriage
(26:20):
conference where people are going to talk at you.
It is very interactive. You're spending time with your
spouse and having conversations,but it's guided and you're given
the tools. So I would encourage anyone to
just just take the leap and invest in your marriage.
You're never going to regret that your spouse, that's the
most important horizontal relationship you have.
(26:42):
Like your, your kids are going to move out someday.
All of these things change, but your spouse is the person that's
going to be there. And if you keep investing in
that, then you're you're never going to reach that point where
you look across the table and think, who is this person?
I don't know them anymore. So just just make the
investment, yeah, would be biggest push to them.
(27:03):
Yeah, I agree. You know, it's like a lot of
things. Just try it once and you know,
we, we won't hold anybody to it if they, if they, you know, this
isn't for me, we'll, we'll release them.
We are going to try to bribe people a little bit with some
dessert on a, on a Friday night.You know, that doesn't hurt.
So come for just a nice date night to get a little piece of
pie or something like that. No, I would agree.
(27:25):
I, I'm, I'm excited to see what this is.
I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised and just
come out of this really excited to see how the Lord's going to
use this at our church. So well, Nikki, thanks for
taking the time to talk with me today about Grace Marriage.
Again, if we're folks that are listening, our first session is
(27:46):
going to come up real soon, Friday, October 3rd, 7:00, seven
to 8:30 PM. And we are encouraging, we are
encouraging couples to just kindof make a date night out of it.
We did it at 7:00. So maybe folks can go grab a
bite to eat before, yeah, maybe hire that babysitter for the
night before heading over to church.
(28:08):
Again, We're going to supply dessert and it's just going to
be a great evening and the instruction and encouragement.
But folks, that's going to do itfor this episode of the Deeply
Devoted podcast. We'll be back next week with
another episode. And until then, have a great
week and thanks for listening.
Hey folks, you're listening to episode 50 of the deeply devoted
podcast The Ministry of the E Free Church of Bemidji, MN.
My name is Eric Nygren. I'm one of the pastors on staff
here at E Free Bemidji and todayon our podcast, we've got a very
special guest special episode planned for our listeners today.
(00:40):
This fall here at our church, weare inviting married couples to
come check out something brand new, something called Grace
Marriage, which is a new marriage discipleship
opportunity that we are offeringand launching here this fall.
And joining me today on our podcast remotely via Zoom is
(01:00):
Nikki Tabor, who serves as a church support and connections
representative at Grace Marriage.
And so I'm so excited to talk with Nikki today so that our
church can learn more about thisreally incredible opportunity
for our church family. So, Nikki, welcome to our
(01:20):
podcast. Yeah.
Thank you so much, Eric. It's been so great working with
you so far, just planning this new discipleship pathway for
your church and investing in marriages.
Yeah, Nikki and I have had a fewconversations along the way to
get this thing going. Everything from what is it going
to take for us to get this started and to how's it going to
(01:41):
integrate into what we're already doing in our church.
And so this episode really for our church family is to kind of
give a big picture of of what this is all about.
Now, just to give a little context, last spring I was
attending the Gospel Coalition Conference out in Indianapolis.
And if if you've ever been to a conference like this, you walk
(02:02):
into an exhibit hall, there are tons and tons of exhibitors and
vendors and ministries. And that's where I learned about
grace marriage for the first time.
And to be honest, with so many tables and vendors, I probably
would have walked right by because I wasn't familiar with
the ministry. But what stopped me was a
conversation I had with a representative that was there
(02:25):
that day. And they asked me a question,
something like, what does your church do to disciple married
couples in between premarital counseling and crisis care?
And I remember stopping and thinking that is a really good
question. And I don't know that I have a
really good answer to that. And so it got me thinking about
(02:45):
this concept of, of marriage discipleship.
Nikki, as we get started here, would you just give us kind of a
an overview of what Grace Marriage is and maybe a little
bit about how this ministry cameabout?
Yeah, absolutely. And Eric, I'm sure as you know,
you're among the majority of churches not having to answer
that question because 72% of ourchurches in America do not have
(03:09):
any substantive ongoing marriagediscipleship between that
premarital and crisis care. Most churches don't have
anything that they're doing on aconsistent basis.
So that's kind of where Grace Marriage got its start.
We are a marriage ministry that serves churches in providing
ongoing discipleship and investment for marriages.
(03:31):
So we have 7 years of curriculum, but it's designed to
create a space for couples to come together and intentionally
work on their marriage and invest in it.
So it's not about crisis or being in a situation of
struggle, it's more about how dowe really strengthen this
relationship and be intentional in developing our relationship
(03:53):
so that when we come across struggles, we have a strong
foundation. Interestingly enough, Grace
Marriage was born out of Brad and Marilyn's first year of
marriage being a huge struggle for them.
Brad, Marilyn Rhodes are the Co founders of Grace Marriage and
they share their story. They have a book, but they in
(04:17):
their first year, Marilyn said, you know, Brad was really great
when we were dating. It was fun, he was romantic, it
was so exciting, she said. Then we got married and he
became the budget man and he didn't really know what it was
like to prioritize connection and just that family of origin
kind of came into play and all of those differences became
(04:39):
glaringly obvious. And it was during Maryland, her
quiet time with the Lord that she came to this, you know, kind
of conclusion that I'm going to love you and be the best wife
that I can, but I'm going to focus on my relationship with
God and let that fulfill me. I'm no longer going to come to
you for these things. That was kind of a wake up
(05:00):
moment for Brad of like, yes. And also I need to be a husband
that you can come to. And so Fast forward 10 years,
they have a marriage that is, you know, just beautiful and joy
filled. And people started coming to
them for premarital counseling, which led to Brad becoming the
marriage pastor at his church. And so we just celebrated the 10
(05:24):
year anniversary of grace marriage being available in
churches and this ministry beingsomething that we can impact
more than just the families at the church that Brad's the
pastor at. So that's really where it came
from is how do we take that grace and extend it into our
marriages. Yeah, I like how you said that,
(05:45):
just that it's an opportunity for couples to invest in their
marriage. And that's really what what I've
been thinking about, even even as I've been thinking about how
will this opportunity be a blessing to couples in our
church family. I can't help but think just as a
husband, as I've been talking with my own wife about, well,
(06:08):
this is something that that we want to be a part of too, not
just in a leadership capacity, but but as a participant.
And we'll, we'll get into some of what it really looks like
here. But sometimes we think of these
things as these things are offered for those couples that
are in trouble or near trouble. And, and, and certainly I'm sure
(06:29):
this would be a blessing for couples that might find
themselves in a tough spot. But I, but I hope that as we go
through this, that that folks will understand this is this is
for all of the above. This is for everybody.
Absolutely. Yeah, so as I was looking
through the the material, Nikki,there's a phrase that just keeps
popping up and it pops up even early in, in what we're going to
(06:51):
work through here this fall. And it's this phrase grace based
marriage. And and so Nikki, I, I know that
we'll again, we'll, we'll touch on that in some of our sessions,
but would you mind just kind of giving us a preview of what that
means, that idea of a, of a grace based marriage?
Yeah, absolutely. So the whole kind of summation
(07:14):
of grace marriage is this idea of living out the gospel in your
marriage, the grace that we received from Christ, the
salvation that we receive and that we are not perfect and we
are so loved in that we how do we take that grace and then
extend that to our spouse? Because we're two imperfect
people making a life together. So often our culture is this
(07:38):
performance base. We're performance driven.
If you do good, then I will do good to you.
And so we get caught in that cycle in our marriages.
We get caught in that cycle justin life.
And so grace marriage is consistently coming back to this
idea of how do we shift our focus?
How do we go from this performance based model to if
(07:59):
you do good to me, I will do good to you and shift that to
the idea that we are extending grace because our spouse,
because we love them, because they're created in God's image.
How do we reach across those barriers when they're having a
bad day and reach out to them and love them and extend grace
and say, I'm still going to be here.
(08:21):
I'm still going to treat you theway that I would on the days you
come home in a good mood. Not excusing bad behavior or
poor treatment of us, but extending and recognizing the
humanity in our spouse. And how do we love them in those
moments of of difficulty? Yeah, I think that was also one
of the the things that really attracted me to learn more about
(08:44):
this ministry is just how how the gospel was so central in, in
a marriage curriculum, just eventhe the idea of marriage
discipleship. I know that the word
discipleship can be a buzzword in ministries and you just can
tack it on to the end of anything and everything becomes
discipleship. But this one really, as I looked
(09:07):
at it and kind of evaluated it, just as you're talking about
just the gospel is very central and the message of grace is, is
really a central concept in this.
And that that's really intriguing to me.
Well, I'm, I'm sure this is truein, in churches, not just ours,
but churches all over. We have couples that are
(09:27):
attending our church who've beenmarried, you know, less than a
year. We have married couples that
have been attending or that havebeen married for many, many
years. And of course, everything in
between. And, and we've kind of hinted at
this a little bit already, Nikki, But, but who is grace
marriage for? Who should consider joining us
(09:47):
this fall? Yeah, if you're married, then
Grace, marriage is for you. I would say, you know, you
wouldn't as a parent say, I don't know, maybe I'll send my
kid to children's ministry. You have a child, they go to
children's ministry, right. Like if you are going to be a
part of the ministry, that is the season of life that you are
(10:08):
in. And so if you're a married
person, disciple your marriage, be in the marriage ministry.
I find it so interesting. You know, you mentioned tacking
on discipleship to everything. We so often disciple
individuals, and we have women'sdiscipleship and men's
discipleship. But on all of our wedding days,
we talked about joining 2 as oneand we forget to disciple the
(10:31):
unit. And so discipling ourselves
individually is great. But what does it look like to
look at discipleship from a perspective of us joining
together and operating as a unit?
And so that's really what Grace Marriage does.
So anyone who is looking to unify their marriage and figure
out how to move as a unit and work through difficulties and be
(10:54):
able to compromise well and justhave a marriage that future
generations look to and say I want that.
That looks like something that Iwould want to sign up for.
So yeah, anybody that is marriedshould be participating.
Yeah. And I'm, I'm looking forward to
being able to look around the room when we launch this and
just kind of size up what I knowof, OK, this couple here,
(11:18):
they're, they're newly married or they've, they've, they've
been here a long time and just see the diversity of, of ages
and life stages and things like that.
I'm, I'm envisioning just even as people are starting to sign
up, what that's going to look like.
And yeah, because I know just asa pastor is on a Sunday morning,
when I stand up in front of our congregation, I can, I can see
(11:39):
in a sense of, of, of who's out there and, and all these
different households and families and relationships that
are represented there. And so I, I would agree with
you. What a great way to say it.
If you're married, this is for you.
And so we've selected at our church three dates this fall.
We're going to do this monthly to start out for couples to take
(12:01):
part in, in Grace Marriage. We're going to start Friday,
October 3rd and then November 5th, 14th and then Friday,
December 12th, all Fridays, 7:00to 8:30 PM at our church.
And you know, we'll be hosting in here at our church.
But Nikki, what, what can couples expect at one of these
90 minute Grace marriage sessions?
(12:23):
What it wouldn't when they come and be a part of this?
What's What's an evening going to look like?
Probably. So in a 90 minute session, what
couples can expect is that you are going to start off focusing
on one of what we call rhythms in grace marriage.
So if you look at marriage research across the board, if
you look at studies that ask what can you do to make your
(12:45):
marriage thrive? The consistent things that come
up overall are the themes of gratitude, showing appreciation,
being grateful, extending forgiveness, communication,
developing intimacy with your communication and communicating
well and quality time investmentin that quality time in your
relationship. And so Grace Marriage curriculum
(13:06):
operates with those rhythms in mind of always wanting to start
off our session with one of those key factors.
And so you're going to start offfocusing on gratitude
communication or investment through quality time, one of
those at each session. And then you are going to dive
deeper into what we call our core lessons, which are going to
(13:28):
focus on what are the most common tension points in
marriages, things like technology, finance,
communication styles, conflict management, intimacy.
And so that's going to give you a chance as a couple to do self
reflection, looking at where you're coming from, what is your
perspective? And then how do you reach across
(13:51):
and come together with your spouse on these things?
How do you start to navigate together as a couple creating a
plan? And then you're going to find a
place to really start to make a plan and have actionable steps
that you can take into that month in between to really focus
on intentionality and investing in that part of your marriage
(14:13):
and and being able to focus on that.
Yeah, you mentioned those kind of actionable steps.
They're not just the evening we gathered together as a group,
but in addition to the sessions that we're going to host at our
church in the in the packet thatwe'll be giving our folks, the
the Grace experience packet thatwe're going to be providing.
(14:35):
There's something in there called weekly check insurance.
Nikki, can you tell us a little bit more about what those are,
what we can expect with that? Yeah, so something that you will
hear throughout Grace Marriage is intentionality.
And everything in our life takesintentionality.
If you want to get healthier, ifyou want to be a better parent,
if you want to be better at yourjob, all of those things, you
(14:57):
have to be intentional with yourtime and what you do with it.
Weekly check insurance are the tool that we have incorporated
into Grace Marriage that allows you to revisit those rhythms of
gratitude, connection or communication and investment
throughout your weeks. So weekly check insurance are
going to give you a point to setdown.
(15:19):
We usually recommend the beginning of the week because
it's a great time to start and you're going to focus on
gratitude. You're going to plan your
one-on-one time, that quality time with your spouse for the
week, whether that is a dedicated date night where
you're grabbing a babysitter andgoing out or you're just having
coffee on your patio. But making sure that you're
setting aside and planning for it because if you don't plan, it
(15:41):
probably likely won't happen. Life is going to squeeze it out.
And then it's going to give you some questions like conversation
starters where you can develop more communication to get past
the everyday just air and talk of who's getting who, where,
what appointments do you have, what's for dinner that we so
often kind of get stuck in that rut.
(16:02):
And so that's going to give you a kind of structure finality
week in and week out. Perfect.
I I'm looking forward to that. I mean, and just that idea of
intentionality and, and my personality is I'm a planner,
I'm a box checker. And but I would resonate with
that of if you, if you don't plan it, if you don't put it in
(16:24):
your calendar, if you don't makea the, the tyranny, the urgent
life, the unexpected is just going to crowd it out.
And it's easy to think, yeah, well, we'll just do that next
week and and it doesn't happen. And so I love having a tool
that's going to hold me accountable and hold, hold us
(16:46):
accountable as a couple to to again, invest in our
relationship. And so I'm so excited to to kind
of dive into this material together.
Now we know that every church isdifferent, every couple is
unique. And so, you know, we don't fully
know yet how God's going to use grace marriage at our church.
(17:08):
I'm, I'm looking forward to, youknow, three months from now to
be able to reflect back and see what the Lord has done.
But that said, I would imagine that just over wow, 10 years of
grace marriage here that you've probably heard some stories,
some testimonies from married couples and local churches about
how grace marriage has been a blessing.
(17:30):
Nikki, would you mind just sharing maybe one or two of
those stories about how you've seen God use grace marriage in
in other churches in other in other couples?
Yeah. So personally, my husband and I
are in year 8 of not only participating but facilitating
with grace marriage. And that is something that has
(17:54):
been just such a blessing to my husband and I.
We had very wise mentors in yearone of our marriage that kind of
instilled in us this idea of marriage investment.
But it wasn't until we found theGrace Marriage curriculum that
we were like, oh, this is like aconsistent thing that we can
(18:14):
incorporate in our lives. And over 8 years we have seen in
our own family. Our son is 17 now.
He's a senior and watching him in his dating life and
navigating relationships and mirroring things that he's seen
his dad and I do in our own marriage and the things that he
(18:35):
looks for and prioritizes. Even when he got his first job,
he said, now I made sure that I have Fridays off so you still
have date night because he watches his little sister.
And he was like, I got that in the schedule.
And so it's something that is impacting just the generations
around us, the young people thatare in our lives that see our
(18:57):
marriage, they see us out on date nights and they say y'all
look like you're always having agood time.
And that's something that I wantthe young people in our
community to see. I want them to see a marriage
that's vibrant. And that's what grace Marriage
has given us because we prioritize, we have
intentionality. But I've seen that over and over
again in couples. So many couples have kind of
(19:20):
started into marriage ministry and saying we know we date when
we can. But after a couple of months of
that regular investment, they'resaying, you know, we're having
weekly date nights. We remembered how fun it was to
be together and they're enjoyingtheir marriage again.
And really that's that's kind ofat the heart of everything is
(19:44):
having this marriage that you enjoy, that this is the person
that you get to do life with. Something that Brad talks about
all the time is that we are called to hold marriage in honor
above all in amongst, you know, everyone that marriage is held
in honor. And what better way for that to
(20:04):
happen? Than to have marriages that are
joyful where the spouses clearlylove and respect each other and
they're not, you know, complaining about one another.
So that's really what I've seen just consistently over and over
again and couples that have invested in their marriage is
that they have these marriages that are just joy filled and you
(20:25):
can just see it in them. So yeah, that's the that's the
biggest impact that I see. OK.
What what a great picture there.And just even as you're talking
about the generational impact, that's a little bit of my
Daydream for this ministry. Again, I don't know how the
Lord's going to use this long term in our church, but we're,
we're not opening it up to dating couples or engaged
(20:48):
couples, but I'm hoping that that there builds A reputation
that maybe some of those couplesstart to say, boy, when, when we
get married, we're going to signup and we'll, we'll be a part of
it. Or at least the concept of, as
you're saying, we, we want to invest in our marriage beyond
(21:11):
the premarital counseling from day one.
And, and, you know, just make this a priority.
And, and, and then again, to keep the, the gospel central to
keep Christ, You know, we often talk with couples that are
engaged in going through premarital counseling about
keeping Christ at the center of their marriage.
And, you know, on the front end of it.
I think that's, that's an ideal,but you don't know what you're
(21:34):
getting into yet. And so I'm so grateful for an
opportunity like this to help. Yeah.
Again, encourage and strengthen and teach and hold accountable
and all of those things that this is going to contribute to.
I can tell you I've been in student ministry for a long time
(21:55):
and currently in our marriage group, we have a couple who's in
year 1 of their marriage. They just got married.
I guess they're ready to celebrate one year.
And she was one of my students. And so she has watched Grace
marriage at our church and, you know, ministry over the years
and has seen myself and my husband and other couples that
(22:18):
have, you know, have been adult mentors for her.
And so when she got married, shewas like, this is a no brainer.
Yeah, we sign up. Of course we do this.
It was just a natural thing thatthat you are going to go into,
which is is very countercultural.
I remember the first time that my husband and I went to a
marriage retreat and a single friend of ours saw kind of like
(22:41):
a flyer for it. And he was like, y'all just got
married? Are you already having trouble?
And we were like, no, we like this is we're going to go and
invest in ourselves and take time away.
And he was like, oh, I didn't know that couples did that
right. So it is something that is very
countercultural that there is a there is a bit of a paradigm
(23:01):
that you have to break for couples that view marriage
anything past premarital as thisis because we're in trouble.
Yes, yeah. But that's just not the case.
No, it isn't. And, you know, maybe along those
lines, Nikki here, just kind of last question here as we as we
wrap up, if somebody's listeningto this and maybe they just kind
(23:24):
of feel like they're on the fence about this, You know,
maybe their spouse is interested, but they're not
quite as interested or or, you know, to be honest, maybe
there's a little bit of pride setting in like, oh, I don't
want to leave the impression that that our marriage is in
trouble or anything like that. Somebody's on the fence about
whether they participate or not.What what would you say to them
(23:46):
to just encourage them to prayerfully consider being a
part of Grace marriage this fall?
Yeah, I mean, I would, I would, my gut instinct is to say just
do it. It's a no brainer.
But really that is a reality. There is a pride issue.
There is a we're fine. And I think there is too
(24:09):
sometimes hesitancy because there's a fear of things are
going OK, Do you really want to open a can of worms?
Yeah, there is some fear there of if we get into this, we're
going to have to have hard conversations and maybe some of
those things that we've been brushing under the rug and not
discussing, that's going to that's going to get scary.
(24:30):
And so I would just encourage couples to step into it knowing
that there's going to be hard things, but this is a place
where you're going to be given the tools to have honest, open
conversations. And the thing I like about the
best is, and you'll they'll see this when they come to the Grace
experience, the worksheets are asking the questions.
(24:53):
You're not you're not bringing up the topics.
The worksheet is. And so it feels a little less
kind of antagonistic to be able to have conversations about
things that cause tension, whether it's finances or
technology or different parenting styles or
communication styles, whatever that is it.
(25:13):
It's a non threatening way to get to address these things.
And so you get to approach sort of difficult topics in a way
that feels just like, OK, this is just part of the activity and
we're just going to navigate this and you're given these
tools to do it. So it's not just opening it up
and then saying, OK, have fun with that.
(25:36):
I have heard over and over again, and this is not to
stereotype, but it's just what happens.
We see this, oftentimes husbandsare the reluctant ones, but we
hear over and over again from husbands once they get there,
they're like, man, this really was kind of fun.
I enjoyed this. So even if you're reluctant,
(25:56):
give it a try, especially with the, you know, the dates that
you're doing at the end of this year.
The Grace experience is a great way to get in there and see what
this is and just kind of kind oftake a peek in there because it
is something that most couples aren't used to.
It isn't your typical book study.
It's not your typical kind of event, just, you know, marriage
(26:20):
conference where people are going to talk at you.
It is very interactive. You're spending time with your
spouse and having conversations,but it's guided and you're given
the tools. So I would encourage anyone to
just just take the leap and invest in your marriage.
You're never going to regret that your spouse, that's the
most important horizontal relationship you have.
(26:42):
Like your, your kids are going to move out someday.
All of these things change, but your spouse is the person that's
going to be there. And if you keep investing in
that, then you're you're never going to reach that point where
you look across the table and think, who is this person?
I don't know them anymore. So just just make the
investment, yeah, would be biggest push to them.
(27:03):
Yeah, I agree. You know, it's like a lot of
things. Just try it once and you know,
we, we won't hold anybody to it if they, if they, you know, this
isn't for me, we'll, we'll release them.
We are going to try to bribe people a little bit with some
dessert on a, on a Friday night.You know, that doesn't hurt.
So come for just a nice date night to get a little piece of
pie or something like that. No, I would agree.
(27:25):
I, I'm, I'm excited to see what this is.
I think we're going to be pleasantly surprised and just
come out of this really excited to see how the Lord's going to
use this at our church. So well, Nikki, thanks for
taking the time to talk with me today about Grace Marriage.
Again, if we're folks that are listening, our first session is
(27:46):
going to come up real soon, Friday, October 3rd, 7:00, seven
to 8:30 PM. And we are encouraging, we are
encouraging couples to just kindof make a date night out of it.
We did it at 7:00. So maybe folks can go grab a
bite to eat before, yeah, maybe hire that babysitter for the
night before heading over to church.
(28:08):
Again, We're going to supply dessert and it's just going to
be a great evening and the instruction and encouragement.
But folks, that's going to do itfor this episode of the Deeply
Devoted podcast. We'll be back next week with
another episode. And until then, have a great
week and thanks for listening.
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