#151 The Generous Leader: 7 Ways to Give of Yourself for Everyone's Gain

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the delighted customers podcast. I am so
excited to have Joe Davis on my show today.
Let me tell you a little bit about Joe. Joe served as a senior partner
at the Boston Consulting Group, one of the biggest, most
respected consulting firms. Consultancies in the world.
Pulls from some of the best talent And Joe spent 37

(00:22):
years there. He co founded the Washington D.C. office and he
started BCG's NA Public Sector Business
North America and led BCG North America. He founded
and chaired BCG center for Inclusion and Equity.
Joe, welcome to the show. Thank you, Mark. Thanks. BCG would
appreciate that nice introduction as much as I will. And after I

(00:45):
was there 37 years, it means a lot to me too. Well, you're in good
company because I know from my own experience that
BCG pulls from some of the best schools and you went to one of the
best, Harvard Business School and excited to have you as a guest. But
more importantly, what you did over your career is remarkable. And
I love how you kind of crystallize some of those thoughts in your new book,

(01:07):
the Generous Leader. What sort of a paradoxical
name. You don't hear those two words going hand in hand very often.
So I have to ask you, naming a book is hard. Typically it
happens after you write it. How'd you come up with that name? You know, you
don't know me that well, but I always tell an honest story. So we of
course had many efforts to find the names. Actually, I used the there's a

(01:28):
purpose group within BCG that's quite creative. I said, hey, can you help me name
my book? We had a lot of names, caring, all kinds of stuff. And it's
funny because the publisher, I ended up with these guys named bk. I was on
video with the fellow and I think whatever the title said, Joe, that's just
boring. He goes, I got an idea. The Generous Leader. Seven ways
to give of yourself for everyone's gain. It was pretty clever. There's three GS

(01:49):
there. And you know, your reaction. Now I see why publishers
are good at their job. Because your reaction is. He said, you know, you can
call it lead with your heart, the caring. It doesn't matter. I want someone to
notice it on the bookshelf so they buy it, which is very interesting.
And it did get the reaction. I actually will talk about it. But I think
an exceptional leader is one who gives themselves and helps others to

(02:11):
grow to their full potential without expecting anything back. Of course, they get something back.
Their team's humming. And that's one definition of generosity. So it actually
is not a bad word. No,
I love the word. And in some ways it's counterintuitive because
you're thinking, oftentimes we think about leading with control.
And I think words like accountability and results and performance

(02:35):
and everything, you're talking about generosity. So that's a bit
paradoxical, isn't it? Yes, yes, it is. But
listen, I also have to be careful. A leader still has to get results.
I'm not saying that you lose your job if you don't get results. That's
as simple as that. But Joaquin Duodo, the CEO of J& J,
was talking to me. He said, you know, Joe, the thing is, of course a

(02:56):
leader has to get outcomes, but the sooner they really realize that it's not
about themselves, move past themselves and connect with all their
team and unlock all the great human traits of their team, the
sooner they will get to the best results. So, of course. And you
said metrics. Yeah. If you don't have basic management skills, you're not
going to be exceptional leader. You won't get the chance. But then how do you

(03:17):
go past being able to create metrics or set a goal and
yelling at people? How do you actually get everybody to be inspired to want to
go with you? I think generosity is not a bad word. You know, lead with
the heart. You hear these words. Well, and I would love to. As we dig
into this, we'll peel back the layers and talk
about what it means to be a generous, generous leader and how

(03:40):
some of these seven ways play out in the real world. But before we
do, what did you see? There's so many books on leadership out there. What did
you see as a white space for this book? Well, you raise a very good
point. So I think a couple things. One, I do think you
talked about the authoritarian leader, you know, the, the Jack Welch of many
years ago, who was a great leader, but also tough guy and all that. I

(04:02):
think those days are changing and I think what we all
expect something different, which we could talk about. And therefore, I think this kind of
leadership matters. Try and encourage, you know, my, my publisher said,
you can't pick that narrow, but 25 to 35 year olds will think about bringing
this kind of aspect into their leadership. But I saw a friend of mine, as
I said, I told a colleague, I said, oh my gosh, who am I? And

(04:22):
he said, joe, if you move eight people that, you know, that'll make a
difference and those, because those eight will move, you know, So I thought, all right,
you know, you don't have to touch millions of people to make a difference. So
I will. Well, just, just to affirm the concept at a high level
is I found, and I've had over 40 years of business
experience at this point, that when I

(04:44):
failed, it typically involved me getting in the way of myself
and trying to do too much as a manager and trying to be too controlling
and not giving it up. And I talk a lot today in
the courses that I offer and what I teach at Michigan State are
all about trust and building trust and how to be less self
oriented. And your book certainly hits on that. Why should the

(05:06):
C Suite matter? I mean, the C Suite's thinking about outcomes in
business and they have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to
get outcomes. Why should they care about this idea of, of being a
generous leader? And isn't that after all, all soft, touchy
feely stuff? Well, as I just said, I don't think it's all touchy, soft, touchy
feel. And we could talk about the seven traits, but I mean, one example of

(05:28):
a generous leader is someone who really helps you grow. So that means I
might have to give you harsh feedback, you might not like it, but if it's
meant coming from caring or generosity or your growth,
that's massively generous, even though it might hurt. So you know, you gotta be
really careful what you think about it. Now, your point on the C Suite, I
mean, there's some other, I think an incredible leader like this, listens very well, is

(05:50):
empathetic to where the other person's coming from. The C suite knows
you have to behave a lot of these ways because they can't do it all.
You know, if you're a brand new leader and you have three people, you said
this a minute ago, I don't trust them. I'll just stay up all night myself
and get it done. That might work when you get tired, but it might work
when you have three people. When you have 10 people and 30 people, it don't
work no more. So how are you them to work at their best and not.

(06:13):
And you can't bark orders because eventually the best they, I won't use swear words,
but they'll say, yeah, good luck buddy, I quit. If that's the way you're going
to treat me, I'm out of here. So I actually, it was funny because I,
I was kind of surprised because people say what you, you know, ask that question.
But when I, the C Suite people I interviewed, and I'm sure you see the
same, they embodied more of these characteristics than a new person
does. And I think it's because they say, hey, I got to motivate 100,000 people.

(06:36):
I can't do that by barking orders from the 18th
floor. Build this culture right down through the organization.
Now, I know there's some leaders in the world today that kind of work that
way. We could talk, we could name their names. But I also know that people
don't work in those companies. They go in, stay a while, and churn right out.
Joe, as you're talking, you triggered a thought and really sort of a

(06:56):
quote that I heard from someone once, which was nine times out of 10,
when people bring in consultants in to solve a problem, the
problem they share with the consultants they want solved is typically not the problem
they end up solving. And how much of the
time does did you find that true? Number
one in your world at Boston consulting group? And two is

(07:19):
how much of this solution ends up
evolving around the seven things that
people can do in generous leadership. I remember one time, very senior
guy around the Boston office when I started, gave a. They
asked someone, asked us to come in. He started giving a picture. But I got
to tell you guys, you have the wrong question. You got the wrong problem. We

(07:40):
should be working on this. If you want us to work on that, don't hire
us. We'll work on this. Guess who they hired? They hired us. You know, now,
he was smart and he was right. But I do think what does happen is
people don't understand holistically, maybe the problem they're dealing with,
right? They think, oh, I need, you know, what it might be that I need
to, you know, this plant's got a safety record. Well, is it your processes

(08:00):
or is it maybe your management? I mean, there's. You don't know even what the
problem is. They'll have an assumption. But they're bringing in a consultant.
They probably want to make sure. Okay, someone better look at all the angles here
and come up with the right answer. Now, you know your point about the
seven traits. I think part one of the most important things in there is,
you know, I say listening, listening to learn. Realistic with

(08:21):
curiosity or my business. I used to tell my teams, engage a
skeptic, skeptics uncover the no's. You got to solve the nose if
you're going to solve the problem. You know, you might. And that.
That is pretty typical if you're trying to drive change in an organization. You know,
where are those people that think I'm crazy? They probably have some real reason to
think that they're not just trying to block. They have something they know that I

(08:42):
don't know. You know, that's a, that's a great point. I think anyone
who's tried to lead change of any kind has dealt with skeptics.
Can you, can you think of a time when you've dealt with the
skeptic as a. On the consultant side of this, within a court, a client
of yours, where you could tell, maybe they don't trust
me. Maybe they're skeptical about what I'm bringing to the table

(09:05):
as a solution. Has anything come to mind for you where you had to deal
with a skeptic? You know what I was thinking when you first started
out? What's a specific example then when you finish it? I mean, always
inside an organization, especially if you're bringing in BCG or
they're a skeptic, you know, someone wanted you, but a lot of other executives didn't
want you. So there's a lot of skeptics. And if you're looking at the

(09:28):
marketing department because the CEO wants you to, well, the marketing department saying, what the
hell are you doing here? You know, I could think of one. This is a
funny story, but not. We did some work for Sheila Behr, so it's a little
different than skeptic after, you know, the, the crap
2008 crash. And she worked for the FDIC, or she was the head of the
FDIC, bailing out banks with yours and my money. And we

(09:48):
did some work with the finance team there, and they
had the structure such that it was great for the banks like Wells Fargo, who
was buying, taking a washing Mutual. And it wasn't great for you, me, as a
taxpayer. Now, their goal was to get the banks, keep them in place and all
that, but they'd gone too far on the quote, unquote, generosity. I remember we
laid this out with the finance team there who were damn smart and they were

(10:09):
not happy. You know, they're skeptical. Your
math also. We're going to challenge what they'd done. But I remember when we
presented to Sheila Bair and the CFO was in the room,
she was stunned. She turned over. Is this right? He said, well, yeah, it is,
right? She said, okay, well, let's change it now. But if you know, you as
the consultant or whatever, the advisor, have to stick to your guns, then you've got

(10:30):
to have the right data and ultimately, if you bring the right analysis and the
right, what facts and figures or whatever it might be, they get
it. They'll agree the Other thing I think is this whole. The seven things is
this whole idea of communicate, communicate, communicate. You know, that's something if you're
trying to drive change, when you set it triggered. You know, I just watched the
best organizations, they understand that really got it done.

(10:51):
You can do all the thinking, you can do all the planning, you can do
all the bubble. If you are communicating this constantly and in ways that
people hear it and over and over, good luck to you. You
know, I mean, good luck to you. And part of the communication is
asking for engagements, right? Because then you find those skeptics. That was a long
answer. I apologize for that. Well, that's a great point. So you just said really,

(11:12):
at least three things relative to communication. Number one,
communication is important. Number number two is you need to do it over and over
again. So it's like a constant drumbeat. And I want to tap, double tap on
that. You said you do need to do it the right way. Right. Make sure
you're doing it to the right people the way they hear it. And you've got
to also get feedback from the field, the people involved as well.

(11:34):
So let's break that one down a little bit. Like examples of
listening. How do you hear the feedback? Well, I'll tell you a story then.
Another CEO is telling me he has a large organization, and
he wants to make sure that he says words. But are people hearing
the words or the. What he means in his words. And he actually does two
things quickly. He'll have an executive maybe a few levels down, somebody

(11:56):
trusts and knows, and he'll ask them, hey, sir, my friend, what are they
saying? I'm saying this guy had a J. And J said,
oh, Joaquin, they're telling you that, you know, you just want. They
think you just want to cut cost. So I never said that. I said I
wanted to streamline this matrix, this very matrix, and try to
make things more effective and more efficient. Yeah, that's what I told you. You want

(12:17):
to cut costs. So he had word he really didn't want to cut costs. I
mean, of course, everyone wants to be effective. But it was so matrix.
He said, wow, I am. They are not hearing my word. There's a friend
said, buddy, you just said it twice. He said, I know. I said, he also.
What? He's funny. He said before he does a major, like a video or, you
know, a town hall type of thing, he'll bring in a small group of people

(12:39):
and redo it. And he'll say to them, so what did you hear? And
he might Say the word TV and they heard the word video. You know, so
he'll write down the words they heard, not the words he said, and change it
to their words. He'll say, well, if you were home at night at dinner
and said, what did the CEO say? What's the story you tell your family around
the dinner table? And that was very powerful. Oh, I thought I said this. And

(13:00):
they heard that. So he would actually. He took the time when it's important
to check himself. So. But, so I think the thing in all of that, when
you said, did you hear they. What are they hearing? Is you just got to
ask questions over and over and over. I mean, every executive I
interviewed for that book said, joe, I like to ask and ask and ask. And
the more junior that's not, the less tenured, the better. You know,

(13:22):
your guys around you may or may not tell you everything
because they're protecting their own job or whatever. So thanks,
Joe. I appreciate that. I don't think really we can say enough about the
importance of communication and how we can easily assume
that we've done just enough of it. And, boy, that would be a
misstep, wouldn't it? You know, the other. I have one other. One other story

(13:44):
I believe in. Like tell things three times. The first
time they hear it, but they wonder what's really going on here. The second time
they're thinking about how their kid fell down last night and scraped his
knees. So not listening. The third time they might engage Orange Street.
Someone I told that somebody said, well, I was watching the Olympic
figure skated dancers and the. And the

(14:07):
judges said, no. Or whoever. The TV guy said, no, watch. The Russian group does
the same move three times. Because the same reason. The first time the
judges said, well, what was that? Because they'd never seen it. Second time, oh, I
see. But there's the third time. Wow, that was really different. So you do the
exact same move, communicate it three times so their audience
actually hears flash, in that case, sees what they did. That was very

(14:28):
interesting. Yeah, 100%
love that story. And there's a good message there about
repeating an important message because people might not be
100% plugged in where they might be
hearing it a different way when you first say it.

(14:48):
What other of the seven can you share another one
strategy for us on how to be a generous leader? I do think
another one that's important is, you know, bringing your human self a
little bit to work. I mean, people nowadays with work, life blur and technology
and all this, you know, people don't want to be just a cog in the
wheel. They want to bring their humanity. So I think this whole idea of whether

(15:10):
you want to use the word vulnerability, honesty, humbleness,
authenticity, I don't care, you know, use the word you like. But
the fact is, I think our people nowadays need to see more of that.
It's also, though, quite effective. I have a friend of mine, asked him, a colleague
at bcg, when did you kind of step across your line and
get yourself more vulnerable than you were comfortable? He told me a story. He

(15:33):
said, you know, Joe, I used to be, or always afraid to say, I don't
know if I was in the room with a team and I could tell they're
getting stuck and they were going to turn to me. I would leave the room
before I'd get the question, how productive is that? This is
ridiculous. They're just staying stuck in there. So I stayed in the room and they
turned to me, of course, and they said. He said, you guys, I don't know
either. He said it was amazing. Oh, wow. The boss doesn't know. We

(15:56):
don't know. It's okay not to know. And, oh, well, let's brainstorm what, you know,
the creative juices just unleashed. And I think so, you know, people.
Oh, being vulnerable, you're just trying to be nice. No, you're trying to unblock
others, allow them to connect with you in a sense, show them you're human,
too and you respect them. But really you're allowing them to move past
roadblocks. You're helping them to that one, I think is quite powerful.

(16:18):
And it gets a bad rap because people think it just means cry on the
TV screen. You know, you don't have to cry. You can do that if you
want, but you don't have to do that. Yeah, just be real. Don't be afraid
to be real and vulnerable. And I think you become more
relatable. Yeah, yeah. Now you don't have to be lost some of the. Well, but
don't you have to be in charge? Yeah, you can say, I don't know. And
let's brainstorm three ways to get there. That sounds like you're in charge,

(16:41):
right? Alex Dorsky, the co Jay, said, listen to
some conference. He said, the leader isn't supposed to be bring the
answer and have the answer in the room or be the smartest person in the
room. They're supposed to be the one to get the smartest answer out of the
room. You know, bring the tap into the team, which you said you Alluded to
something earlier, that same kind of comment on how the leader. Yeah, you said not

(17:02):
the smartest person in the room necessarily. Yeah, I love that. Leader shouldn't be
coming. Certainly shouldn't be coming across as the smartest person in the room. That's
a good way to get everybody else to shut up and
withdraw. Right. But to bring out the best in others so that you
get the best. Answer or outcome, you know,
if you want. I talked to one characteristic that I kind of like, that's

(17:24):
easier and it's just simply small acts have big
impact. You remember when you're in kindergarten, maybe you don't, but the
teacher put the gold star on your paper. Your paper could have been terrible, but
it was a small act that motivated and inspired you. You know, now that's
kindergarten. But even as a grown up, you know, how often do you
love it when you get an email that says, job well done. Thank you. Just

(17:45):
an email. And you. I was talking to a friend of mine once, and she
was a mom. She goes, yeah, my kid got an email like that. We talked
about a dinner all night. We all dissected. We were all so proud of her
and she was so proud of herself. If she had said, hey, I got a
raise today, so, oh, good, honey, how much, you know, here they were just engaged.
So simple small acts that show people you're connecting with them,
you care about them. Congratulations. Job well done. It's really

(18:08):
powerful. Another friend of mine told me, she said if she said
something to the boss, like on a Friday, hey, my son's got a soccer tournament
this weekend. It's gonna be a big weekend for us, you know, okay, soccer, whatever.
But if he on Monday or he or she on Monday or Tuesday, come back
and say, oh, by the way, how was that soccer tournament? She goes, I am
just thrilled he remembered. They asked, I'm going to follow that person

(18:29):
forever in the context of work. And that took what you had to remember.
So you got. It took 30 seconds, you know, and that, that
that person was motivated forever to team with that boss. That man. I think
that's such a good point. I want to double tap on that, if I could,
this idea of listening. Cause listening was one of the things you, you, you
shared in the realm of communication. And if

(18:51):
you could. I know it's hard, especially if you manage a lot of people. You're
interacting with so many people, you've got so much on your plate, you're trying to
remember all this. But if someone says something like, if you could
listen for the part of it that connects to them
emotionally. Right. Like I've got this kid's soccer game. Maybe they say
something about it. It's, it's a big game or it's, you know, it

(19:11):
means a lot to him or her, whatever. And then you can make a mental
note to circle back, as you shared in the story, what a
big impact. It shows you're not self oriented. It shows
maybe actually you do care about them. I like the
way you put that. Maybe, actually. Yeah. And you do. You were really
listening. And how many other people. These are small acts,

(19:33):
but they make a big difference because how many people actually do that?
Yeah, yeah. No, I think, I think better leaders do do
it. Less better leaders don't. You know. And it's. I tell you, Scott Kirby
at CEO United told me a story. He said his wife was on the plane
after Covid and the captain came out and said, oh, Mrs. Kirby, I'm so
excited to see you. And she said, I just love your husband. That's the CEO.

(19:54):
You know, I just. She goes, oh, why? And it was a black female captain.
And she said, your husband called every, every captain of
color after the George Floyd murder just to check in, didn't have
answers. Wouldn't you tell us what. Just said, how you doing? And that's. That
takes a little bit of work. Probably less than he wished. But what he didn't
have to do anything other than. And she was so committed to United into

(20:16):
Scott Kirby because he knew they're in a vulnerable moment,
you know, and I'll just check in and that's a little
bit bigger act. But it's pretty simple. Very. So another important
gem there I want to tap into is you don't have to have all the
answers. Just the idea of checking in and saying how you doing?
Or what's going on means a lot. Yeah, absolutely.

(20:38):
I actually think you just. When you said that. Well, it's just like the story
I told that manager when he said he didn't have all the answers. Actually, his
team became energized. But, you know, I think sometimes
another executive was saying, Scott Kirby said during COVID
during the pandemic, he was going to get on the video and tell, you know,
town hall, whatever, thousands of people. I'm not sure when we're going to fly again.

(20:59):
His team said, you can't say that. You're the CEO. You have to have all
the answers. Now in this case, what are you guys talking about? I don't know
when we're going to fly Again, but you don't want to get there and say,
I don't know what's going to happen, but he does want. I don't know what
it looks like, but here's what we're going to do in the meantime, you know,
so you, you're in charge, but you're admitting you're also not full of all
the answers. It's just people attracted to that. I love

(21:20):
these stories. You know, let's
go back to the word generous. When it comes to this, when you think of
it, I know then you just shared at the top of the show
where the name came from and how. How it came about. But when you think
about the. That word, what do you want to tell leaders
who are listening to the show right now about what they. How they

(21:42):
can begin to think of themselves as generous? I think it's.
Yeah, that's a good way to ask that question. You know, it really is. You've
learned a lot. You have a lot of expertise, skills, capabilities,
whatever. Knowledge, experience, share it. That's the generous part.
Share it. Don't you want them and share it to others so they can grow
and develop and be, you know, thrive at their full potential? That's the

(22:04):
generous part. Now you'd say, well, that's what a leader is supposed to do. Okay,
be a generous leader. Share and grow your people. That's what I think.
Sometimes you got to do this, and that means feedback and all kinds of things.
But that's what I think is when I really think of that, because you want
your team humming. And if you share it not with expectation of, oh,
it's all about me, but it's all about you growing, they'll follow it. If it's

(22:25):
all about you, just want to say how great you are. Good luck to you.
So that's a great delineation because when you first started talking about
SHAREit, my mind jumped to, well, I'm going to share all that I know about
X, Y and Z and share technical information and so forth. But really
what you're saying is share the model of a
leader based on what you learn and incorporate the things that are in your

(22:48):
book, which you talked about, things like communication and listening
and these other things. Yeah, yeah, no, you're sharing it. So, I mean,
what you are doing is enable them to be better at their job. So what
part of what I know should I share right now with, hey, you know, I
once did that and that, man, it really went sideways for me. Let me tell
you what I did, or let me Tell you how I got out of it
or what a mentor coached me. You know, that's.

(23:11):
That's really leadership. Oh, it's so much more valuable, right,
if you may have the answer, but it's better if you help them
come to the answer than for you to just give them the answer. I think
we all remember the best teachers didn't just. Or the ones that weren't the most
boring, didn't just the ones that weren't lectured to you. Oh, let me. And that
was the end of the class. Did you get all my notes? Yeah, I guess

(23:31):
so. I don't know. You just droned on for 50 minutes as opposed to the
give and take. What do you think? I mentioned at the top also that
BCG is one of the most respected and
greatest consulting brands ever. I remember reading about. I
know might have been 20 years ago. I was back, going back for my master's,
my mba, and we read case studies that

(23:53):
included BCG and so forth. But
when you think about what they look for in an employee
to be member of their team as a consultant, what are some of the top
attributes that they look for? So, yeah, one, I'll
use the word curiosity, but someone who's curious to collect data
and, you know, in BCG's context, with data and all that. But

(24:15):
Carrie, what data? So curiosity, curiosity to get to the
deepest insight, curiosity to learn, curiosity to understand
why does this work this way and how could it work, you know, a different
way if it needs to? That's critical. The second thing that's
critical is resilience or grit. I mean, we watch all of those who
make it to partner. You know, there's a lot of punches along the way. It's

(24:36):
a tough place. It's enough, you know, those who have resilience, I screwed up. I
learned from it. I'll do this, you know, or that's quite important.
And then the other thing that's quite important is. But
it's harder to get in the interview. But someone who gets out of their own
head because you can't be curious. I guess that goes with curiosity, but you know
someone. Maybe that's the point. Stubborn thinker. You're not going to get

(24:58):
through the interview rounds because that's just not going to work. You
know, it's one thing in consulting, but probably a lot of industry, the thing you
have least of is time, right? I mean, you can make something, you can go
find research, but you got, you know, the time because clients are pushing you, hey,
I want to make the change so that's what I'd say. I'd say curiosity in
all its elements, being out of your own head, which is

(25:19):
curiosity version and resilience and grit
and. Yeah, I mean, that's what I'd say. Speaking of curiosity, you have me
curious about the kind of work that you're doing these
days at bcg. I know you said you were in an advisory role. What's the
kind of work that you're doing with them now? I just actually had a wonderful

(25:39):
two days this week, earlier this week,
just coaching the group of people that are principals and partners, we call them one
step below managing director on just these type of things. How do
you connect best with your teams? How do you connect best with your client?
How do you motivate, inspired? How do you get out? Because there's a transition where
you get out of the math curiosity or the analytic curiosity, and

(26:02):
you have to connect with clients. You know, when we talked about driving changes, get
the answer, but now you got to get it done, and that's a little different.
So that's the stuff I'm doing mostly with people. It's a lot of coaching, whether
it's formal like that, or one on one, which I love. All right, so if
you're listening to the Delighted Customers podcast right now, you
just got a whole bunch of free wisdom that is being taught to

(26:23):
some of the up and coming, some of the rising best and
brightest talent at bcg. And you got it on the Delighted
Customers podcast. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Mark.
I have one last question I want to ask you, which I ask all my
guests. Which is what delights you as a customer? It's a wonderful
question. Two things. I like going out to eat and, you know, when

(26:44):
the. I like the ambient, the ambience of a restaurant delights me. I
don't know, the food's important, but most importantly is that service person and
the team. So they feel like they want me there. They don't become my
best friend, but they connect with me. Of course they meet you
now, I need a new fork or whatever, but it's really. Are they making me
feel like, ah, you belong here, we want you. We're gonna make sure you have

(27:04):
the best darn meal in your life. That delights me. Or
I was thinking, even if you took it harder, you're buying a new car. Do
you walk out and say, hey, that was a pretty damn good experience, or it
could be a used car. Now that's tough because I. But I've had one person
who made me feel really good. And they also followed up with me and of
course they're trying to sell the next car, but it didn't feel like it. Now,
that's hard. But, you know, that's what I want. I want to feel good that

(27:27):
I was there. And somehow I felt like they wanted me there, not just my
mom. Yeah. I think so many of us are in the same boat as you
described it. We want to feel special. We want to feel like someone really cares
about us. Yeah. Even in that meal in the restaurant, you know,
otherwise, I guess you can eat. But you can eat anywhere. Yeah. Great. Great
example. It has been an incredible delight to have

(27:48):
you on the show. The name of the book is called the the Generous
Leader. And Joe, if people want to get ahold of you, where would
be the best way for them to reach you? Well, if you want to reach
me, the best thing is go onto LinkedIn, Joe Davis, BCG or whatever,
and if you leave a message, I will respond. I will then give you my
email because I'd rather communicate over email than. Or I have a

(28:09):
website, joedavis.com you can learn more about me and there's a contact
thing, but I would just go to LinkedIn. Leave me a message. I've now
learned to watch and check. I didn't used to check. Now I check. Joe, thank
you so much. It's been so much fun. Thanks for your wisdom and thanks for
being a guest on the Delighted Customers podcast. Thank you, Mark. This was fun.

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