In this insightful episode of *The Dental Wealth Nation Show*, host Tim McNeely and certified business coach Ben Shaver, dive deep into the complexities of recruiting associate dentists efficiently and cost-effectively. As dental practices face increasing challenges in finding and retaining quality talent, this episode offers valuable strategies to overcome recruitment hurdles.
Tim McNeely opens the discussion by highlighting the current recruitment difficulties in the dental industry, emphasizing both internal and external avenues. Ben Shaver then shares his expertise, emphasizing the critical importance of employer branding, messaging, and cultivating a strong internal culture to attract top-tier associate dentists.
The conversation thoroughly explores the misalignment between younger dentists' expectations and practice owners' needs, along with geographical and timing challenges. The episodes underscore the essential nature of maintaining a consistent practice through effective talent acquisition and retention, while managing associated costs.
Key techniques such as reaching out to dental schools and utilizing advanced talent sourcing methods are discussed. The importance of employer reviews on platforms like Glassdoor and Indeed is also highlighted. Encouraging positive reviews can balance out any negative feedback and improve the practice’s image to potential employees.
Attracting and retaining dental talent is further examined through the lens of social media and its role in portraying the practice's brand and culture. Tim and Ben stress the need for a well-aligned leadership, culture, and brand to create a positive work environment, facilitating employee referrals and internal recruitment success.
The shifting priorities of younger generations of dentists are also explored, with a notable emphasis on quality of life and a supportive work environment over financial rewards alone. The episode dives into building a robust recruitment pipeline, underscoring the necessity for a clear mission statement and a vivid vision for the future of the practice.
Additional highlights include industry statistics on associate dentist retention, overcoming recruitment challenges through relationship-building akin to business-to-business marketing, and the role of 3rd party recruiters in speeding up the recruitment process. A successful client example showcases the cost and quality benefits of effective talent sourcing.
Tune in to gain actionable insights and innovative strategies to navigate the evolving landscape of dental associate recruitment. Don't miss out on this valuable conversation that aims to transform your recruitment approach, ensuring your practice is well-equipped for future growth.
For more information and valuable resources, visit dentalwealthnation.com.
Discussion Questions:
- What are the biggest challenges dental practices face when recruiting associate dentists, and why do these challenges exist?
- How can dental practices improve their employer brand and culture to attract top talent more effectively?
- What strategies can dental practices implement to align the interests of younger dentists with those of practice owners?
- In what ways do geographical and timing challenges impact the recruitment process, and how can practices overcome these obstacles?
- Why is it essential for dental practices to focus on reviews on job recruiting sites like Glassdoor and Indeed, in addition to Google, Yelp, and Facebook?
- How can practices utilize their current employees and internal recruitment plans to find quality candidates who fit the practice culture?
- What role does social media play in portraying a dental practice’s brand and culture, and how can practices leverage this for recruitment?
- How important is building a recruitment
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
As a driven dentist, you see the world differently where some
see scarcity. You see abundance. When others wanna give
up, you keep going. You're building an amazing life
of significance. That means you can't rely on ordinary
advice from ordinary advisors to get to your goals. You want
advice that's going to help maximize your net worth so you can take
(00:27):
even better care of the people you love, the causes you care
about, and make your dent in the universe.
But the fact is, this advice remains hidden because
relatively few professionals are well versed in them, and the extremely
affluent don't care to let you know about them. Join
us as we pull back the curtain to reveal the often
(00:49):
hidden advice and strategies used by today's most
successful individuals and families. Welcome
to Dental Wealth Nation. Here's your host, Tim McNeely.
Hey. Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of
Dental Wealth Nation. And and I don't know about you and your dental
(01:11):
practice, but I know my wife has a an issue in hers. And a lot
of the doctors that I talk to have a big issue, and that
is effectively recruiting associate
dentists. It is really hard to find great talent to bring
into your practice. And if you struggle with that, you are not gonna wanna
miss the day because by the time we finish today, you're gonna know that
(01:32):
you have options to recruiting your next associate,
Dennis, both internally and externally. We're gonna talk about what that means for
you. You're gonna have clarity when it comes to the recruiting
process and how you can recruit for your DSO or multi location
practice. But most importantly of all, you're gonna feel inspired to take
steps so you can hire your next
(01:54):
great associate. And I'm so excited to be here today with Ben
Shaver, and and what I love about Ben is he is
so good at helping doctors do just this. He he's got a
heart for building a strong dental community, and he loves
helping people find where they fit. Ben is a certified business coach,
and he's also the lead coach for Venture Practices. Ben, welcome
(02:17):
to the show. Yeah. Tim, thanks for having me. Glad to be
here. Oh, I I am just so thrilled to be talking about
this this recruiting issue because it's a big
problem today, isn't it? Yeah. It is. You send the, you know, in the
beginning about inspiration, and that's the hardest thing
we're trying to find for people now is is they're kind of burned out on
(02:38):
this. They're seeking all these different avenues,
find great associates. You know, we
constantly look at at where can we find and bring people in. It's not
about just placing Indeed ads anymore and getting on
better Tim. And, you know, we've really gotta dig into what is our
employer brand. You know, what what is the messaging that's out there? What do
(03:00):
people see, you know, when they come in and take a look at at our
practices? So it's really a big, huge process that we're not
taking probably as, you know, serious as we we
need to, but the bigger companies that they're getting into it now and
focusing on the big things like leadership, like branding, like
establishing culture, going beyond just, hey, let's let's
(03:22):
pay this person a big bonus. Let's, you know, put these things in the contract.
But a lot of it now is is tactics too. You know, going beyond
just placing those ads, and that's what, adventure practices.
We've gotten really good and kinda created the system, that is
more about talent sourcing and reaching out. I I
quietly say with air quotes for those that may not actually be watching that,
(03:45):
not necessarily poaching, but, you know, if there's people out there that are
looking for different opportunity, a better opportunity, we just wanna reach
out and find them. So we kinda take an executive
search approach. You know, let's go find great talented people to come
to to these practices and use these tools that are disposable, you
know, to find them. So why do you think this has
(04:07):
been such a challenge for so many of the the dentists and practice
owners out there? Why do they really struggle finding those associate
dentists and and bringing in good quality talent? I think
some of it is misalignment to some degree. You know, when I talk to these
younger dentists that are getting out of dental school, they feel like they have to
go work, you know, at a DSO. That private practice
(04:30):
doesn't want them. They don't want them Tim they've got 2 or 3 years experience.
And so they they feel like they're kind of forced to go into that. And
then lots of times, the only real DSOs they know is the ones
that came and talked to them when they were d 3, d 4 students. And
so they don't really understand the options. They also don't
necessarily they're they're educating themselves great these days, but they
(04:52):
just don't know that, hey, there's a lot of other ways to go about finding
that job. But from the the client side that we work with,
lots of Tim, it's the hard to fill areas that people are calling us about.
Like, hey. It's a rural area, or lots of times, there's a ton of
competition. Like, we've got a a client now that's looking in
Cincinnati, Ohio. Well, if you go on Indeed in Cincinnati, Ohio,
(05:14):
there's 30 other dentists. So how do you stand
out? So that that's what we did. We were like, let's take our marketing
background. You know, we were a marketing company first, but let's let's take
that brand approach, that marketing approach, and start to
attract people to us versus having to, you know, go out and get them.
So we're kind of burning it from both ends using marketing and sales.
(05:36):
Okay. Wealth, I and and that's that's fascinating that you're really kind of
bringing that in. And the other thing I I heard you Nation is there really
is kind of 2 parts to this because, right, not only is it
attracting them, but it's that that associate who may be looking for
something too. And so you've you've really got to approach it as the owner trying
to attract, and then you've gotta give and create something that an
(05:58):
associate will wanna come work for. Yeah. It's I
mean, part of that too is geography, truthfully.
So it it's a timing game along with geography. If you're in a hard to
fill area like a rural area, eventually, there'll be somebody that wants to come to
that area. But sometimes you can't wait. I mean, the the reason this is a
large problem going back to your original question is how much money does it
(06:20):
cost every day you don't have a provider in there? And when you're having
to use, you know, the locum, the temp dentists, that
causes a problem because they're not steady. Your hygienist
leave, and they're even harder to recruit for. Right? And then assistance,
and then the staff is not, you know, safe and secure, and Nation then
everybody, it's not just the culture's bad, and then the patients see
(06:43):
that. So at the end of the day, you've got to kind of look at,
you know, can we attract people here? Because lots of
Tim, if you don't have the owner dentist in some of these practices,
it's hard to keep it going. Secondly, it's, you know,
what are you doing to attract and bring them there? Because if, like
I said back on the Indeed ads, if I'm in, I
(07:06):
don't know, rural Iowa, let's just say, is
somebody looking in rural Iowa? Maybe not. So you've gotta expand that
search out and start thinking about who can we get and bring them in.
We very, very much encourage our clients to get in and talk
to schools as much as possible. That's the long game.
What we do for them is the talent sourcing, which is the
(07:28):
short game of we are going to go out and do the really hard
work of cold calling, texting, emailing, finding these
people, putting together a great brand for you.
We talk clients, Tim. It's amazing. They're not even sure
if I ask, what do you think your rating is on Glassdoor or Indeed
or some of these other websites? You know, they worry about the reviews on Google
(07:52):
for the practices, but they never actually look to see, shoot, we're a
2.1 on Indeed. Wealth, here, placed an ad and spent
all this money on Indeed to attract people to the fact that you're a
2.1 star. So we look at those things
and make sure that, hey, what is your brand out there? Because even if
you pay us to go find people, we can't sell
(08:14):
them on anything. If they get online and look, and you don't have much of
a social media brand views. Aren't good.
You know, your websites aren't good. They want patients to come in. What's your marketing
look like? What's the staff look like? You know, how
long have you owned it? That type of thing. So there's a lot of really
good questions we're getting from these young associates
(08:35):
that the the larger groups and DSOs need to to think about.
Well and that's fascinating because I think you just mentioned something that I
that I don't know that a lot of people are aware of, and and it
goes back to those reviews. Right? A lot of times, the practice
is focused on those Google reviews and the Yelp reviews and the
Facebook reviews and the likes there. But these recruiting sites,
(08:57):
there's also a review system there. Isn't there? Yeah.
Absolutely. I mean, majority of them have that and, you know, for the same reasons
that that the Google reviews are there. The problem is this,
people generally don't review the employee sites until,
you know, they've had a bad issue. Right? Most of us leave a job. Mhmm.
Then we go to the next job. We don't think about leaving a positive review,
(09:21):
because we've left for one reason or the other. So I I we always encourage
clients. Get on there and have your, you know, really good champion a players leave
you leave your reviews, and really build that up. So in case you do get
a couple bad ones, you you know, you still look pretty good.
Interesting. I and so that plays a huge role as people are
checking you out. Right? They're they are probably looking at the Yelps and the Googles
(09:42):
and the the Facebooks, but they're also checking out your job profile
too to make sure it's a place they wanna come work. Yeah.
What what we do with every client is we set up what we call a,
practice profile, which really digs out good information
about the area, you know, the highlights of the practice. Sometimes these
practices may not look as beautiful from the pictures,
(10:04):
but we try to put that together, make that look nice. We don't wanna be
misleading. We also use assessments for
candidates so that we can go in and it says, here's the best
working environment for this particular person, the ideal job
climate. So we ask our clients, you know, if if this is a
fast paced transactional turn and burn practice, tell us
(10:26):
that Because we don't wanna bring you somebody that's gonna be a little bit
slower methodical that might be a high producer, but
they're not gonna thrive in this environment. And the worst part of recruiting
is retention. Right? You've gotta recruit the people you've already got. So make
sure you're keeping them happy. And that's the biggest thing is upfront.
Let's make sure they're a culture fit. And so there's a lot of
(10:49):
that, that that goes into it. And then, you know, I
mentioned before social media, that's a whole another, you know, show we
could do. Right? That's, because people are gonna get in there and look, and they're
gonna see what people are saying about the practice. And,
you know, whatever the same reason people would come to your practice
as a patient is the same reason people would come there to work.
(11:11):
Yeah. Now I I've heard you Nation the you know, just really the importance of
having a strong employer brand, and we've also, you know,
talked about culture a little bit. So how do brand and culture
relate to each other? Yeah. So I I coach all my
clients, really on the alignment between leadership,
culture, and your brand, because I think they all tie together.
(11:33):
Back when we were just a marketing company, we would look at, okay,
why were we really successful with these people and not so much with
these people? And certainly, we didn't hit every time with every campaign that
we did. But lots of times it was poor
leadership or they, you know, just weren't trained well enough. It was
some process systems, but I find Dentist for the most part
(11:56):
fairly efficient. Their process and systems are usually pretty good.
It was more they don't really have any type of good feeling. It's
that culture. So your leadership drives the culture
and that culture, which I define really easy. I'm
really specific about culture. Don't overdo it.
Thrive values, mission statements, all that's great. But what
(12:19):
I say is, what is your look, act and feel?
And that's important because if all of that aligns, if
what the vision of leadership aligns with what the culture is of the
team, then the patients are gonna see that that's gonna become your
brand. And then ultimately, that brand is what is gonna
bring you referrals. You know, it's, I know this sounds
(12:42):
strange talking about this when we're talking about recruiting, but at the end of the
day, you know, at this time era, what we're going through
now with social media, these Facebook groups, like I'm in
Charlotte, North Carolina, the moms group in Charlotte, North Carolina runs
things. They did. So, basically, they're gonna ask,
hey, who's a great dentist in this area? And that's where you wanna
(13:04):
have some positive feedback and and wanna get mentioned. And that
all comes from what people think about your practice, what they feel when they
come in there. So as a leader, if you define your culture and
you say, just as an example, you know, we want to look professional.
We want to act organized so that we feel trusted.
You know, it could be that we wanna feel relatable so that people with anxiety,
(13:27):
you know, come to us and they they don't feel, you know or they feel
that this is a comfortable place. So ultimately, you have to put together
a pretty awesome team. You know, I tell clients all the time, like
your best recruiters and your best marketers are down the hall.
Your patients are your best marketers, and your team is by
far your best recruiters. This talks against what we do, and I know I'm going
(13:49):
on a little tangent here, but, I Thrive
always kind of it's I found it odd that you've got
hygienists down the hall that have to know other hygienists.
Right. Why not bonus them some money if they can bring in another
quality person that they know is gonna fit the culture
or would hope would fit the culture? Right? I would rather pay that
(14:11):
person money than some outside person like me,
especially assistants. Assistants are tight too. So, you know,
I would definitely put together an internal recruitment plan to bonus
your people first before I do anything else. Okay. And
I wanna come back to that that internal, external distinction here in a
little bit. But but really, kinda once again, what I hear you you saying
(14:33):
is that that branding, the the culture, the the leadership.
Right? It's not just important about attracting patients, but it's also
really important just in terms of attracting your next associate or the
employees because you're really advertising for them also.
Yeah. Absolutely. That's the back to what I was saying with social media and your
Wealth, They're they're going to go there. I mean, this is a generation,
(14:56):
especially the younger ones that grew up on dating apps. You know, they certainly didn't
go out and just date somebody without taking a look on Instagram or
Facebook or something. So they're used to doing that online
research, and they could see one tiny little thing that doesn't
necessarily jive with what they think they should be doing, and and that ruins that
opportunity. And so for us, a lot of what we're doing
(15:18):
is that cold outreach and it, it works great, but
where we lose people is if there's just nothing to back
up that brand. You know, so we're saying, hey, this is
a place you ought to look at. You know, let's get
on the phone and talk about it. And then they go and they look online
and see, yeah, maybe that's not what I I wanna do there. There's a
(15:40):
lot of philosophical attachment, especially with the younger generation. I
get that. I think that's great. But it's not just about money as
much anymore. They want a good quality of life and live where they
wanna live and, you know, make sure that they're gonna be in an
environment that's, you know, psychologically safe for them. Wow.
So a lot of times when you start working with the practice then because because
(16:02):
I know when I listen to this, I'm like, that's a lot of stuff they
have lined up. And maybe you've got the culture, maybe you've got some of that
mission statement stuff, maybe maybe you even got so far as like written a vivid
vision for your over what it looks like for the next 3 years. But, you
know, my guess is a lot of practices don't have these really
essential pieces in a well thought out format that can be
(16:23):
easily communicated. Tim so is that like, what are some of the first
steps you take with a practice if they come to you and say, Ben, I
I I'm really looking to grow and scale, and I need to to start building
a recruitment pipeline. How how do you start working with them?
Yeah. And this is, Brittany McDowell who works with me. This is, you
know, her expertise here, but I kinda set up the branding side of this a
(16:45):
couple years ago when we decided to take this on because it it
is a journey. It it is. And it's you're taking these people through a journey,
but it's getting it organized. So with the larger groups,
lots of Tim, the the calls we get is, hey, we're spending a lot of
money on internal recruiters and not sure we're getting our money back
on that or the opposite. We're spending a lot of money on placement
(17:07):
fees and indeed ads and and all of this. We're just not seeing
it be as effective. So what we do specifically
Tim immediately go in and take a look at the brand and
identify the brand both from the corporate side. Because
a lot of the the, DSOs we work with, for example,
yeah, they've got their name, but their practices are branded under individual
(17:30):
practice names. So we kinda look at all of that and figure
out, okay, you know, where are the hard to recruit areas? Let's start there.
And then I kind of get, like, you were talking about with a Nation, you
know, what's the 3 year Nation? Because if somebody's like, look, we're just selling out
to private equity 4 years from now. Okay. That's great. That's I'm glad you told
me. I'm but I that's gonna I'm gonna take a different approach
(17:52):
because it's more now about transactionally getting people in and
building a pipeline versus that long nurture of
those d Thrive, d four students and creating events and things like that.
So second step after that is, we introduce them to
assessments. We're big disc and value assessments people so that
they understand kind of where they're at. Most people have taken something like
(18:15):
this, but I like for them to be familiar with it. So that if they've
got some of these practices that they continue to struggle to keep
doctors, there may be a culture issue there. So if we need to
go do Tim communications training or an evaluation, we'll do that.
The third part is, Andrea. She's one of
our more technology task. She loves
(18:38):
spreadsheets. But she does a program called truth in
recruiting. And what she does with that is basically looks at the
numbers and says, okay, here's where you're getting the best, you
know, ROI. This is why your internal
team may not be successful because you're not giving them any
resources to be successful where they're not being trained
(19:00):
or, you know, lots of times Wealth see that they've hired somebody
away from, you know, recruiter away from some other DSO thinking that'll solve the
issue, and they don't have any training programs. So we'll make
suggestions there. And then, at that point, we,
you know, continue to do consulting. Usually, that lasts as
little as 90 days up to we've had some people for several years. But during
(19:22):
that process, we go in and we do sourcing. We call it talent sourcing. And
that's what I was talking about earlier, more of an executive search where we,
you know, basically go circumferences around that practice, reaching out
to Dentist to see if they'd be interested. And then if, that
doesn't yield a great result in the 1st 90 days, we start figuring out
more of a, how do we bring them in from another area, more Nation. And
(19:44):
that that does come with a little heavier hand in marketing. But, yeah.
It's using marketing as the basis of this is what's made
it really successful. Wow. No. And I love that tie in
because it really feels like a a holistic approach where you're
you're looking at everything from bringing them on and then even keeping them
on, which I I wanted to ask you. Right? You go through this process
(20:06):
and and you recruit someone. Do you have any stats and just kinda like the
the average industry stats of how long a a
recruited associate dentist will stay on or a recruited employee?
Yeah. That that's actually a really awesome question because we've been looking into that and
it varies greatly. I mean, that is definitely a
organizational, that could be part of it. Geography is part
(20:29):
of it. Mainly it is a culture
issue when people don't stay. You know, with Dentist, you're probably gonna keep
them through at least their first contract. It's rare that it's so bad that somebody
just walks away halfway through. So Dental, 2 years,
you're you're good with that. Hygienist, it's a little bit different. That's
a area where if they don't like it, they're just gonna move. They're so
(20:51):
in demand. They can go anywhere and do whatever they want to now. I do
think that'll change. I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel. There's
a lot of doom and gloom around that, but I I think hygienists will you'll
see more and more of that, and and make it easier there. But it's
this sense of really just building out a recruitment platform
so that your processes and systems, you know, do you have an applicant tracking
(21:12):
system? The other thing that we do that has
been wildly successful and this because nobody's been doing this. I
don't know why Back to the marketing side. You know, when we do
business to business marketing to try to land clients, what are we doing? We're sending
emails and then nurturing those people over time. And
then maybe 6 months later, they're like, oh, what? I do need to talk with
(21:33):
Tim. I do need to talk with Ben. But nobody does that in recruiting.
So this person may have raised their hand and said, hey, I'm I'm interested in
possibly coming to work for your practice, but for whatever reason didn't follow through with
an interview. Do we just stop talking to them? You know, you,
you go and you talk to those dental students, collect
their Nation. But then how do you nurture them over time of
(21:55):
introducing them to your culture and your brand and making them feel like, man, I
I do wanna go work for them. Because that that's gonna
happen. One day, they're just gonna be mad at their job and be like, I've
been thinking about going to work at this place. Now is I need to contact
them and see what they got. So it's it's all those things relating around
marketing work great in recruiting. Wealth, right.
(22:16):
And that really does, I think, kinda hit to the the heart of the matter,
because you're you're building relationships with people. And, you know, I I
love thinking about those new dental students. Right? D 2, d 3.
Right? You get their information, but, you know, you still can't hire them on for
a year, year and a half. But during that time, if you're nurturing them, if
you're communicating them, making them understand that, hey, I I really want you to
(22:37):
come work for me, that you're gonna build and develop that that sense of
loyalty with someone who's never stepped foot in your practice. And chances are,
when they get ready to get hired on, you might be the first choice because
you've taken just a little bit of time to think through what does that
recruiting pipeline look like for you and your practice.
Yeah. And, I mean, anybody that knows me knows I can Tim anything back to
(22:58):
sports, but it's the same thing. Right? They they start recruiting kids
in 9th grade. Right? Because they they want that talent. They want somebody coming
in. I just think that in dentistry, it's been so transactional,
and and you just said it best. You just brought it up, build a Nation,
and that's not what's happening. That's that's not it. They're just, hey, we need a
Dentist. We need a warm body. We need them today. But people are
(23:20):
wising up. I'm I'm impressed with how the industry is really
embraced recruiting and and trying to do it the right way Nation, you know, making
sure they've got a good fit back to what we were talking about earlier, retention.
Gotta keep them. Now now when people are reaching out to you, how
often is it that scenario where you just Nation? It's like, I need someone
and I needed them yesterday versus, hey, I I really want to invest
(23:42):
in building this pipeline and building a recruitment system so that I get
quality candidates. So what's that balance between speed and
making sure you're actually getting good quality candidates in the pipeline?
So I'd say a 100%. A 100% of people that that reach out to
us generally have a fairly immediate need. Alright. I immediately
yesterday. Yeah. But they again, I I think I
(24:06):
think people are wising up a little bit. So they're like, I understand there's
a process here and that we need to go through this process, but what can
I do in the short term? So that's where we started going into
talent sourcing because talent sourcing is the quickest way outside
again, going to your internal people. Go there first, please.
But then talent sourcing is by far the quickest when you talk about speed.
(24:29):
But it's not always the most effective and efficient because you're just
having to reach out to a lot of people and and get it done that
way. A lot of people use 3rd party recruiters.
There are some good ones out there. I certainly don't talk against them. It's just
usually they've got their people in the areas where they're at, and that's how they
recruit. And they would they would have reached out to you already if they had
(24:50):
somebody. So, you know, yes, that it's always
that, hey, hybrid of we're gonna start working tomorrow to bring somebody
in, but we're also gonna start working tomorrow to build a long term
recruitment plan for you. So that strategically,
you've got a bench. Right? Let's create a bench of people to where
when you need somebody, you've got somebody you can call versus having to go
(25:12):
back through the whole thing again. Yeah. No. That that's great. Can
you walk us through an example of a client that you've worked with and and
some of the results that you've been able to get for Tim? Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. Probably one of the more recent one we had was,
you know, how DSOs tend to like to scale and buy things? You know, peep
people on our end are like, well, can you just hold for one second while
(25:33):
I try and get some things done here before you buy 10 more practices? But,
they they came to us. This is probably been a couple of years we've been
working with them and really wanted us to support for their internal
recruitment team. And they had great people on their internal recruitment
team, but their skill set wasn't really about outreach. It was
more they were good going to events and talking with people, and we're
(25:56):
not scared to go talk to people at events, great
campus recruiters, things like that, but it just wasn't moving fast enough.
And, so the organization was like, do we need to hire more recruiters?
Or what what do we need? So as we did more sourcing, provided more
resources for their department, over time,
once we got into that truth in recruiting, they were like majority of our
(26:19):
candidates are coming from sourcing. So either they're coming from Indeed
because this is a hot area where we don't need recruiters or these
outside people that are doing, you know, sourcing for,
a third of what we're paying 1 recruiter, are able to bring
us more leads than than they were. And, yeah,
so that's that's a lot of it is it's far less expensive.
(26:42):
I just think with some people, the pushback we get every once in a while
is, oh, I'd rather pay you upon placement. And
I'm like, Wealth, then you're gonna pay a lot more. You know, it's, so
for us, we were in marketing. So we're like, hey, let's go to work.
Right? And then do our jobs and get paid for it. And that's what's working.
And, you know, we we could probably charge more for it. I think everybody
(27:04):
can say that they feel they're good at something. But, you know, it's it's
definitely probably right now the number one tactic that's bringing in,
recruits the fastest and quality recruits because we're screening them to look at
their, actual cultural fit and looking at their
assessment and making sure they'll work in that practice. Yeah. Well, Ryan,
I think that that's a part that often gets left out is that right once
(27:27):
right. Getting that right fit. Like you said, if you've got a high volume practice,
you don't want someone who's not used to that. Right? You want that good
fit so that you've got that that culture match.
Because, you know, I I I I love this saying and I forget who said
it, but right. Either you're gonna get culture or culture is gonna get
you. Mhmm. And, you you gotta be aligned with
(27:47):
that. And and if you don't adopt to it, it's gonna eat you up and
throw you out. Yeah. We, everybody has a
culture. It's just whether or not it's the one they they want or not. And
Yeah. I'll give you prime example. Today, I was coaching a client
and she's got a pretty new staff in one of her offices. And she's
like, it just seems like they need a lot of attention. And I said,
(28:10):
that's probably true. Right? Think about adopting 4 kids all at once. You know, they
they don't know what they're doing. They don't know their rules or responsibilities. But what
I asked her was, I said, do you feel they're passionate about
dentistry? And do you feel they're passionate about, you know, your vision and
your success and the success of the practice? And are they proficient?
Because, you know, you can coach or train people up,
(28:32):
but if people have a bad attitude and they're, you know, very cynical,
that's a hard thing to ever overcome. And so that was
that got her thinking, did I bring some people in that may end up causing
problems down the road? So just a lot of different ways to look at
that. But culture is, I mean, literally the cornerstone
Yeah. Or the center of the universe as it relates to being successful in both
(28:55):
both marketing and recruiting, in my opinion. Yeah. Very, very, very true.
And and and and the landscape of recruiting certainly has changed just
a little bit over the last couple of years. What are some things that
that you see moving forward? And so, you know, pull out your crystal ball and
and and give us just a little feel of where you think this is moving.
(29:15):
In dentistry, it'll be interesting to see because we've been talking about this for over
a decade now. Right? Like, how how are DSOs in private practice
playing together and creating a great dental community? I think that's
that's important. I see more
smaller groups forming of of dentists that are like, hey. We wanna create some
passive income for ourselves, you know, so let's build up 5
(29:37):
or 6 practices. We're not looking to sell to DSO, get high multiples. They're not
walking around with ask me about my EBITDA shirts on. They're more like, hey.
We just really wanna, you know, build a good business,
and they're going to start attracting top talent. So I do see
I've seen that twice now in the past couple months where that is a
successful model. It's just really hard sometimes to find
(30:00):
the right dentist to partner together to do that, that that aren't thinking
about, you know, oh, how big can we take this? So, you
know, people wanna step away at some point. Dentistry is tough on people. I'm not
a Dentist, but every dentist that I'm friends with, even the ones in their late
thirties are like, so I think that's the biggest thing I'm seeing. And and certainly
recruiting and marketing will be a a huge, huge part of that. Okay.
(30:22):
Interesting. Very, very fascinating. And, so, you
know, let's talk a little bit about right? You know, you
build that recruiting pipeline. You got that in there. You talked about just kind of
the the ongoing coaching to to make sure that culture and and fits
there. But what are some of the the metrics that someone
should pay attention to when they're when they're looking at building a a
(30:44):
recruiting process out? What what are the metrics you pay attention to and look at?
So, Andrea, who works with me, will tell me I'm the worst person to ask
about numbers because I'm always like, I need to know just these 2 or
3 numbers because those are truly what will drive
decisions. But for us in recruiting,
it's time to hire and cost per hire.
(31:06):
And then from there, it's an analysis of, okay, how much money
does that associate bring in? Because this this
can be frustrating too. You might have found that quote warm body, but then
they get in and they're not even making enough to really justify their daily minimum.
So it's not just, now we finally got somebody, but now they're not performing
like the doctor that was there before. So how are you
(31:29):
attracting the people that can replace, you know, the the quality you
had before, especially when you're buying a practice and the owners leaving.
And I'm seeing that too. And that is tough. That is really
tough. These cold starts that when people buy them in Monday, it's a whole
new ownership group and new Dentist. That that's
a little rough. You're gonna be on a road to recovery with them.
(31:52):
But, yeah, Tim, it it happens. And, yeah, it can
be a good thing too. But, it's just making sure
everybody's kind of rolling in the same direction, and bringing
people in that fit the culture of that practice or
having to bring a lot of people in and change the culture of the practice.
Nice. Well and and as we've been talking, I pulled up your
(32:15):
website here, Venture Practices, and you've got just a
fantastic resource section on here
for recruitment. I'm gonna put that down on the chat for everyone, and and
tell us a little bit about what we can find on there. I know I'm
seeing everything from, you know, creating a relatable brand
to, you know, ways to to, you know, really
(32:36):
look for that proficiency in the recruiting. But but what are some of those resources
that you would encourage people to check out? Yeah. We have found for
us the best way to work with clients is through
programs first. Right? We wanna bring a little value in advance.
So lots of times Wealth talk through those DISC and value assessments. Like, hey. Once
you take one of these, it's not gonna cost you anything. We'll debrief it. That
(32:58):
way, I get a kind of an idea of how leadership looks,
and they get an idea of of how I coach. So that's just a value
in advance thing that we do. The second kind of program we get to is
that branding one where we look at that employer brand. And then,
of course, usually people need our help sourcing at that point.
So we we get into, an engagement of sourcing where we
(33:20):
build out that practice profile, really start to polish up with that looks. We can
do that in, you know, couple weeks and get going pretty quickly. We've got
a very, very locked up system on how we outreach. With
email and text, that all changed at the beginning of the year of how you
can be compliant. And so we really had to work through those challenges, but we've
done that. So a lot of people come to us because they've they've lost
(33:42):
that kind of success there. And then the long term play
is either helping you coach your internal
recruiters and think about strategy and really going
through here all the different ways that you can recruit people?
Which one of these bring the most value to you?
I'll give you a prime example. We had, a group that they
(34:04):
had 4 practices they could not bring Dentist to. And we just beat our head
against the wall. All of us did. And then McNeely, what we realized was
okay. Some people are having success bringing
in, you know, out of country doctors that are now
graduating and and getting, you know, I always
say certified, but getting their licenses here in the United States that are willing to
(34:26):
work. They they wanna go work somewhere and, let's find a pipeline of that.
And it's been very successful in those particular owners that that was happening with,
happened to be, you know, very compatible in that way. So it it worked out
and it was kinda one of those moments. So we're trying to find
those creative ways to recruit. I think that's probably our
strength is from a strategy perspective. We'll we'll get really creative with
(34:49):
it. Excellent. No. I I love that. So I and,
Ben, how can we get in touch with you? How can we find you? Yeah.
Venturepractices.com is is probably the the best way. We've certainly
got, you know, on social media and YouTube channel and all that. But,
I'm perfectly fine with people emailing me. It's b shaver@venturepractices
dotcom. But, you know, on on our websites, call to
(35:12):
actions, resources, great ways to schedule with me or
Britney or Andrea, depending on what your immediate need is, you know,
whether that's coaching with me, whether that's, you know, the recruitment
consulting and getting the sourcing starting with Britney or Andrea who can really dig
into your numbers and and find out, you know, where there's some inefficiencies.
But, yeah, definitely, website's probably the best way to get get in touch with us.
(35:35):
Okay. And what about any of the the shows that go on? Are you at
any of the the different dental events? Can we find you there?
Yeah. I do the obscure ones. Like, I was like, Dental Podfest Okay.
Last month. You know, those are the ones that kinda because I like to talk
to the the people that are really out there influencing.
(35:59):
Dental community here locally. So I do a lot of resources,
talks there. Like, I'm doing a culture talk, next week for the women
DSO. So it's yeah. It's so regionally, like,
with some of the bigger events we do get to, like Daikaman, DEO,
but, yeah, we're So we can keep our eye out
for you with those those events too. That's why I always like to ask that.
(36:21):
So any closing thoughts before we we sign off, Ben?
Yeah. I mean, the big thing is is not to get discouraged. You know, there's
we've never worked with somebody that didn't have a path forward.
So just, you know, exhaust every resource, do your research. I
know the COOs and CEOs of these DSOs are running a
mile a minute and just don't have time to sit down and spend
(36:43):
15 minutes. But know, give us 15 minutes to kind of talk through it. We're
not, you know, necessarily trying to sell you something. We'll give you some advice right
away. Like I said, value in advance, just to see if it's something that would
be helpful for you. You. Or or even if you can figure out how to
execute it yourself easier, we we help people with that too.
So, yeah, that's kind of the parting note is just get in touch with us,
have a conversation. Yeah. I I would encourage you. If you're
(37:06):
listening, do that. Right? In in in what Ben is demonstrating this is a
principle I always believe in. It's it's who can add value first. Right? You wanna
add value to the Nation. And this is something Ben's offering to to help you
out with. So take advantage of that. Do that phone call and,
you may just find that solution that that you've been looking for. So, Ben,
hey, thank you for just making a difference in such a a a
(37:28):
tough area of dentistry right now. So, you know, the the teeth is
hard, like, you know, running the practice is hard, but, you know, finding good quality
people, that's a major challenge. And it and it's so nice to know that
you are bringing a solution to a lot of these practices out there. So thank
you for that. Well yeah. And I appreciate that. And, Tim, thank you for all
the work you do because, you know, it's people like you that get good information
(37:50):
out there so people can make good informed decisions. Yep.
It's always helping make the Dental community stronger. Now I I always tell
people you're one decision away from from whatever it is you're looking for. Right? You're
just one good decision away. So so keep making decisions, and you'll
make the right one sooner or later. That's true. Right? And you gotta
keep talking to people to to find that out. So That was what I was
(38:11):
gonna say. I'm always like your one person away from from figuring it out. So
Yep. Exactly. Well, hey. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you found this
helpful. Leave like your comments below, and we'll see you again here
soon on the Dental Wealth Nation Show. Thanks, Tim.
You've been listening to Dental Wealth Nation. We hope you've gotten
some useful and practical information from the show. Join us
(38:34):
next time as we pull back the curtain to reveal the often
hidden advice and strategies used by today's most
successful individuals and families and help maximize your
net worth so you can take even better care of the people you
love. Till next time. Make sure to hit the website at
dentalwealthnation.com Nation.
As a driven dentist, you see the world differently where some
see scarcity. You see abundance. When others wanna give
up, you keep going. You're building an amazing life
of significance. That means you can't rely on ordinary
advice from ordinary advisors to get to your goals. You want
advice that's going to help maximize your net worth so you can take
(00:27):
even better care of the people you love, the causes you care
about, and make your dent in the universe.
But the fact is, this advice remains hidden because
relatively few professionals are well versed in them, and the extremely
affluent don't care to let you know about them. Join
us as we pull back the curtain to reveal the often
(00:49):
hidden advice and strategies used by today's most
successful individuals and families. Welcome
to Dental Wealth Nation. Here's your host, Tim McNeely.
Hey. Welcome everyone to another exciting episode of
Dental Wealth Nation. And and I don't know about you and your dental
(01:11):
practice, but I know my wife has a an issue in hers. And a lot
of the doctors that I talk to have a big issue, and that
is effectively recruiting associate
dentists. It is really hard to find great talent to bring
into your practice. And if you struggle with that, you are not gonna wanna
miss the day because by the time we finish today, you're gonna know that
(01:32):
you have options to recruiting your next associate,
Dennis, both internally and externally. We're gonna talk about what that means for
you. You're gonna have clarity when it comes to the recruiting
process and how you can recruit for your DSO or multi location
practice. But most importantly of all, you're gonna feel inspired to take
steps so you can hire your next
(01:54):
great associate. And I'm so excited to be here today with Ben
Shaver, and and what I love about Ben is he is
so good at helping doctors do just this. He he's got a
heart for building a strong dental community, and he loves
helping people find where they fit. Ben is a certified business coach,
and he's also the lead coach for Venture Practices. Ben, welcome
(02:17):
to the show. Yeah. Tim, thanks for having me. Glad to be
here. Oh, I I am just so thrilled to be talking about
this this recruiting issue because it's a big
problem today, isn't it? Yeah. It is. You send the, you know, in the
beginning about inspiration, and that's the hardest thing
we're trying to find for people now is is they're kind of burned out on
(02:38):
this. They're seeking all these different avenues,
find great associates. You know, we
constantly look at at where can we find and bring people in. It's not
about just placing Indeed ads anymore and getting on
better Tim. And, you know, we've really gotta dig into what is our
employer brand. You know, what what is the messaging that's out there? What do
(03:00):
people see, you know, when they come in and take a look at at our
practices? So it's really a big, huge process that we're not
taking probably as, you know, serious as we we
need to, but the bigger companies that they're getting into it now and
focusing on the big things like leadership, like branding, like
establishing culture, going beyond just, hey, let's let's
(03:22):
pay this person a big bonus. Let's, you know, put these things in the contract.
But a lot of it now is is tactics too. You know, going beyond
just placing those ads, and that's what, adventure practices.
We've gotten really good and kinda created the system, that is
more about talent sourcing and reaching out. I I
quietly say with air quotes for those that may not actually be watching that,
(03:45):
not necessarily poaching, but, you know, if there's people out there that are
looking for different opportunity, a better opportunity, we just wanna reach
out and find them. So we kinda take an executive
search approach. You know, let's go find great talented people to come
to to these practices and use these tools that are disposable, you
know, to find them. So why do you think this has
(04:07):
been such a challenge for so many of the the dentists and practice
owners out there? Why do they really struggle finding those associate
dentists and and bringing in good quality talent? I think
some of it is misalignment to some degree. You know, when I talk to these
younger dentists that are getting out of dental school, they feel like they have to
go work, you know, at a DSO. That private practice
(04:30):
doesn't want them. They don't want them Tim they've got 2 or 3 years experience.
And so they they feel like they're kind of forced to go into that. And
then lots of times, the only real DSOs they know is the ones
that came and talked to them when they were d 3, d 4 students. And
so they don't really understand the options. They also don't
necessarily they're they're educating themselves great these days, but they
(04:52):
just don't know that, hey, there's a lot of other ways to go about finding
that job. But from the the client side that we work with,
lots of Tim, it's the hard to fill areas that people are calling us about.
Like, hey. It's a rural area, or lots of times, there's a ton of
competition. Like, we've got a a client now that's looking in
Cincinnati, Ohio. Well, if you go on Indeed in Cincinnati, Ohio,
(05:14):
there's 30 other dentists. So how do you stand
out? So that that's what we did. We were like, let's take our marketing
background. You know, we were a marketing company first, but let's let's take
that brand approach, that marketing approach, and start to
attract people to us versus having to, you know, go out and get them.
So we're kind of burning it from both ends using marketing and sales.
(05:36):
Okay. Wealth, I and and that's that's fascinating that you're really kind of
bringing that in. And the other thing I I heard you Nation is there really
is kind of 2 parts to this because, right, not only is it
attracting them, but it's that that associate who may be looking for
something too. And so you've you've really got to approach it as the owner trying
to attract, and then you've gotta give and create something that an
(05:58):
associate will wanna come work for. Yeah. It's I
mean, part of that too is geography, truthfully.
So it it's a timing game along with geography. If you're in a hard to
fill area like a rural area, eventually, there'll be somebody that wants to come to
that area. But sometimes you can't wait. I mean, the the reason this is a
large problem going back to your original question is how much money does it
(06:20):
cost every day you don't have a provider in there? And when you're having
to use, you know, the locum, the temp dentists, that
causes a problem because they're not steady. Your hygienist
leave, and they're even harder to recruit for. Right? And then assistance,
and then the staff is not, you know, safe and secure, and Nation then
everybody, it's not just the culture's bad, and then the patients see
(06:43):
that. So at the end of the day, you've got to kind of look at,
you know, can we attract people here? Because lots of
Tim, if you don't have the owner dentist in some of these practices,
it's hard to keep it going. Secondly, it's, you know,
what are you doing to attract and bring them there? Because if, like
I said back on the Indeed ads, if I'm in, I
(07:06):
don't know, rural Iowa, let's just say, is
somebody looking in rural Iowa? Maybe not. So you've gotta expand that
search out and start thinking about who can we get and bring them in.
We very, very much encourage our clients to get in and talk
to schools as much as possible. That's the long game.
What we do for them is the talent sourcing, which is the
(07:28):
short game of we are going to go out and do the really hard
work of cold calling, texting, emailing, finding these
people, putting together a great brand for you.
We talk clients, Tim. It's amazing. They're not even sure
if I ask, what do you think your rating is on Glassdoor or Indeed
or some of these other websites? You know, they worry about the reviews on Google
(07:52):
for the practices, but they never actually look to see, shoot, we're a
2.1 on Indeed. Wealth, here, placed an ad and spent
all this money on Indeed to attract people to the fact that you're a
2.1 star. So we look at those things
and make sure that, hey, what is your brand out there? Because even if
you pay us to go find people, we can't sell
(08:14):
them on anything. If they get online and look, and you don't have much of
a social media brand views. Aren't good.
You know, your websites aren't good. They want patients to come in. What's your marketing
look like? What's the staff look like? You know, how
long have you owned it? That type of thing. So there's a lot of really
good questions we're getting from these young associates
(08:35):
that the the larger groups and DSOs need to to think about.
Well and that's fascinating because I think you just mentioned something that I
that I don't know that a lot of people are aware of, and and it
goes back to those reviews. Right? A lot of times, the practice
is focused on those Google reviews and the Yelp reviews and the
Facebook reviews and the likes there. But these recruiting sites,
(08:57):
there's also a review system there. Isn't there? Yeah.
Absolutely. I mean, majority of them have that and, you know, for the same reasons
that that the Google reviews are there. The problem is this,
people generally don't review the employee sites until,
you know, they've had a bad issue. Right? Most of us leave a job. Mhmm.
Then we go to the next job. We don't think about leaving a positive review,
(09:21):
because we've left for one reason or the other. So I I we always encourage
clients. Get on there and have your, you know, really good champion a players leave
you leave your reviews, and really build that up. So in case you do get
a couple bad ones, you you know, you still look pretty good.
Interesting. I and so that plays a huge role as people are
checking you out. Right? They're they are probably looking at the Yelps and the Googles
(09:42):
and the the Facebooks, but they're also checking out your job profile
too to make sure it's a place they wanna come work. Yeah.
What what we do with every client is we set up what we call a,
practice profile, which really digs out good information
about the area, you know, the highlights of the practice. Sometimes these
practices may not look as beautiful from the pictures,
(10:04):
but we try to put that together, make that look nice. We don't wanna be
misleading. We also use assessments for
candidates so that we can go in and it says, here's the best
working environment for this particular person, the ideal job
climate. So we ask our clients, you know, if if this is a
fast paced transactional turn and burn practice, tell us
(10:26):
that Because we don't wanna bring you somebody that's gonna be a little bit
slower methodical that might be a high producer, but
they're not gonna thrive in this environment. And the worst part of recruiting
is retention. Right? You've gotta recruit the people you've already got. So make
sure you're keeping them happy. And that's the biggest thing is upfront.
Let's make sure they're a culture fit. And so there's a lot of
(10:49):
that, that that goes into it. And then, you know, I
mentioned before social media, that's a whole another, you know, show we
could do. Right? That's, because people are gonna get in there and look, and they're
gonna see what people are saying about the practice. And,
you know, whatever the same reason people would come to your practice
as a patient is the same reason people would come there to work.
(11:11):
Yeah. Now I I've heard you Nation the you know, just really the importance of
having a strong employer brand, and we've also, you know,
talked about culture a little bit. So how do brand and culture
relate to each other? Yeah. So I I coach all my
clients, really on the alignment between leadership,
culture, and your brand, because I think they all tie together.
(11:33):
Back when we were just a marketing company, we would look at, okay,
why were we really successful with these people and not so much with
these people? And certainly, we didn't hit every time with every campaign that
we did. But lots of times it was poor
leadership or they, you know, just weren't trained well enough. It was
some process systems, but I find Dentist for the most part
(11:56):
fairly efficient. Their process and systems are usually pretty good.
It was more they don't really have any type of good feeling. It's
that culture. So your leadership drives the culture
and that culture, which I define really easy. I'm
really specific about culture. Don't overdo it.
Thrive values, mission statements, all that's great. But what
(12:19):
I say is, what is your look, act and feel?
And that's important because if all of that aligns, if
what the vision of leadership aligns with what the culture is of the
team, then the patients are gonna see that that's gonna become your
brand. And then ultimately, that brand is what is gonna
bring you referrals. You know, it's, I know this sounds
(12:42):
strange talking about this when we're talking about recruiting, but at the end of the
day, you know, at this time era, what we're going through
now with social media, these Facebook groups, like I'm in
Charlotte, North Carolina, the moms group in Charlotte, North Carolina runs
things. They did. So, basically, they're gonna ask,
hey, who's a great dentist in this area? And that's where you wanna
(13:04):
have some positive feedback and and wanna get mentioned. And that
all comes from what people think about your practice, what they feel when they
come in there. So as a leader, if you define your culture and
you say, just as an example, you know, we want to look professional.
We want to act organized so that we feel trusted.
You know, it could be that we wanna feel relatable so that people with anxiety,
(13:27):
you know, come to us and they they don't feel, you know or they feel
that this is a comfortable place. So ultimately, you have to put together
a pretty awesome team. You know, I tell clients all the time, like
your best recruiters and your best marketers are down the hall.
Your patients are your best marketers, and your team is by
far your best recruiters. This talks against what we do, and I know I'm going
(13:49):
on a little tangent here, but, I Thrive
always kind of it's I found it odd that you've got
hygienists down the hall that have to know other hygienists.
Right. Why not bonus them some money if they can bring in another
quality person that they know is gonna fit the culture
or would hope would fit the culture? Right? I would rather pay that
(14:11):
person money than some outside person like me,
especially assistants. Assistants are tight too. So, you know,
I would definitely put together an internal recruitment plan to bonus
your people first before I do anything else. Okay. And
I wanna come back to that that internal, external distinction here in a
little bit. But but really, kinda once again, what I hear you you saying
(14:33):
is that that branding, the the culture, the the leadership.
Right? It's not just important about attracting patients, but it's also
really important just in terms of attracting your next associate or the
employees because you're really advertising for them also.
Yeah. Absolutely. That's the back to what I was saying with social media and your
Wealth, They're they're going to go there. I mean, this is a generation,
(14:56):
especially the younger ones that grew up on dating apps. You know, they certainly didn't
go out and just date somebody without taking a look on Instagram or
Facebook or something. So they're used to doing that online
research, and they could see one tiny little thing that doesn't
necessarily jive with what they think they should be doing, and and that ruins that
opportunity. And so for us, a lot of what we're doing
(15:18):
is that cold outreach and it, it works great, but
where we lose people is if there's just nothing to back
up that brand. You know, so we're saying, hey, this is
a place you ought to look at. You know, let's get
on the phone and talk about it. And then they go and they look online
and see, yeah, maybe that's not what I I wanna do there. There's a
(15:40):
lot of philosophical attachment, especially with the younger generation. I
get that. I think that's great. But it's not just about money as
much anymore. They want a good quality of life and live where they
wanna live and, you know, make sure that they're gonna be in an
environment that's, you know, psychologically safe for them. Wow.
So a lot of times when you start working with the practice then because because
(16:02):
I know when I listen to this, I'm like, that's a lot of stuff they
have lined up. And maybe you've got the culture, maybe you've got some of that
mission statement stuff, maybe maybe you even got so far as like written a vivid
vision for your over what it looks like for the next 3 years. But, you
know, my guess is a lot of practices don't have these really
essential pieces in a well thought out format that can be
(16:23):
easily communicated. Tim so is that like, what are some of the first
steps you take with a practice if they come to you and say, Ben, I
I I'm really looking to grow and scale, and I need to to start building
a recruitment pipeline. How how do you start working with them?
Yeah. And this is, Brittany McDowell who works with me. This is, you
know, her expertise here, but I kinda set up the branding side of this a
(16:45):
couple years ago when we decided to take this on because it it
is a journey. It it is. And it's you're taking these people through a journey,
but it's getting it organized. So with the larger groups,
lots of Tim, the the calls we get is, hey, we're spending a lot of
money on internal recruiters and not sure we're getting our money back
on that or the opposite. We're spending a lot of money on placement
(17:07):
fees and indeed ads and and all of this. We're just not seeing
it be as effective. So what we do specifically
Tim immediately go in and take a look at the brand and
identify the brand both from the corporate side. Because
a lot of the the, DSOs we work with, for example,
yeah, they've got their name, but their practices are branded under individual
(17:30):
practice names. So we kinda look at all of that and figure
out, okay, you know, where are the hard to recruit areas? Let's start there.
And then I kind of get, like, you were talking about with a Nation, you
know, what's the 3 year Nation? Because if somebody's like, look, we're just selling out
to private equity 4 years from now. Okay. That's great. That's I'm glad you told
me. I'm but I that's gonna I'm gonna take a different approach
(17:52):
because it's more now about transactionally getting people in and
building a pipeline versus that long nurture of
those d Thrive, d four students and creating events and things like that.
So second step after that is, we introduce them to
assessments. We're big disc and value assessments people so that
they understand kind of where they're at. Most people have taken something like
(18:15):
this, but I like for them to be familiar with it. So that if they've
got some of these practices that they continue to struggle to keep
doctors, there may be a culture issue there. So if we need to
go do Tim communications training or an evaluation, we'll do that.
The third part is, Andrea. She's one of
our more technology task. She loves
(18:38):
spreadsheets. But she does a program called truth in
recruiting. And what she does with that is basically looks at the
numbers and says, okay, here's where you're getting the best, you
know, ROI. This is why your internal
team may not be successful because you're not giving them any
resources to be successful where they're not being trained
(19:00):
or, you know, lots of times Wealth see that they've hired somebody
away from, you know, recruiter away from some other DSO thinking that'll solve the
issue, and they don't have any training programs. So we'll make
suggestions there. And then, at that point, we,
you know, continue to do consulting. Usually, that lasts as
little as 90 days up to we've had some people for several years. But during
(19:22):
that process, we go in and we do sourcing. We call it talent sourcing. And
that's what I was talking about earlier, more of an executive search where we,
you know, basically go circumferences around that practice, reaching out
to Dentist to see if they'd be interested. And then if, that
doesn't yield a great result in the 1st 90 days, we start figuring out
more of a, how do we bring them in from another area, more Nation. And
(19:44):
that that does come with a little heavier hand in marketing. But, yeah.
It's using marketing as the basis of this is what's made
it really successful. Wow. No. And I love that tie in
because it really feels like a a holistic approach where you're
you're looking at everything from bringing them on and then even keeping them
on, which I I wanted to ask you. Right? You go through this process
(20:06):
and and you recruit someone. Do you have any stats and just kinda like the
the average industry stats of how long a a
recruited associate dentist will stay on or a recruited employee?
Yeah. That that's actually a really awesome question because we've been looking into that and
it varies greatly. I mean, that is definitely a
organizational, that could be part of it. Geography is part
(20:29):
of it. Mainly it is a culture
issue when people don't stay. You know, with Dentist, you're probably gonna keep
them through at least their first contract. It's rare that it's so bad that somebody
just walks away halfway through. So Dental, 2 years,
you're you're good with that. Hygienist, it's a little bit different. That's
a area where if they don't like it, they're just gonna move. They're so
(20:51):
in demand. They can go anywhere and do whatever they want to now. I do
think that'll change. I think there's a light at the end of the tunnel. There's
a lot of doom and gloom around that, but I I think hygienists will you'll
see more and more of that, and and make it easier there. But it's
this sense of really just building out a recruitment platform
so that your processes and systems, you know, do you have an applicant tracking
(21:12):
system? The other thing that we do that has
been wildly successful and this because nobody's been doing this. I
don't know why Back to the marketing side. You know, when we do
business to business marketing to try to land clients, what are we doing? We're sending
emails and then nurturing those people over time. And
then maybe 6 months later, they're like, oh, what? I do need to talk with
(21:33):
Tim. I do need to talk with Ben. But nobody does that in recruiting.
So this person may have raised their hand and said, hey, I'm I'm interested in
possibly coming to work for your practice, but for whatever reason didn't follow through with
an interview. Do we just stop talking to them? You know, you,
you go and you talk to those dental students, collect
their Nation. But then how do you nurture them over time of
(21:55):
introducing them to your culture and your brand and making them feel like, man, I
I do wanna go work for them. Because that that's gonna
happen. One day, they're just gonna be mad at their job and be like, I've
been thinking about going to work at this place. Now is I need to contact
them and see what they got. So it's it's all those things relating around
marketing work great in recruiting. Wealth, right.
(22:16):
And that really does, I think, kinda hit to the the heart of the matter,
because you're you're building relationships with people. And, you know, I I
love thinking about those new dental students. Right? D 2, d 3.
Right? You get their information, but, you know, you still can't hire them on for
a year, year and a half. But during that time, if you're nurturing them, if
you're communicating them, making them understand that, hey, I I really want you to
(22:37):
come work for me, that you're gonna build and develop that that sense of
loyalty with someone who's never stepped foot in your practice. And chances are,
when they get ready to get hired on, you might be the first choice because
you've taken just a little bit of time to think through what does that
recruiting pipeline look like for you and your practice.
Yeah. And, I mean, anybody that knows me knows I can Tim anything back to
(22:58):
sports, but it's the same thing. Right? They they start recruiting kids
in 9th grade. Right? Because they they want that talent. They want somebody coming
in. I just think that in dentistry, it's been so transactional,
and and you just said it best. You just brought it up, build a Nation,
and that's not what's happening. That's that's not it. They're just, hey, we need a
Dentist. We need a warm body. We need them today. But people are
(23:20):
wising up. I'm I'm impressed with how the industry is really
embraced recruiting and and trying to do it the right way Nation, you know, making
sure they've got a good fit back to what we were talking about earlier, retention.
Gotta keep them. Now now when people are reaching out to you, how
often is it that scenario where you just Nation? It's like, I need someone
and I needed them yesterday versus, hey, I I really want to invest
(23:42):
in building this pipeline and building a recruitment system so that I get
quality candidates. So what's that balance between speed and
making sure you're actually getting good quality candidates in the pipeline?
So I'd say a 100%. A 100% of people that that reach out to
us generally have a fairly immediate need. Alright. I immediately
yesterday. Yeah. But they again, I I think I
(24:06):
think people are wising up a little bit. So they're like, I understand there's
a process here and that we need to go through this process, but what can
I do in the short term? So that's where we started going into
talent sourcing because talent sourcing is the quickest way outside
again, going to your internal people. Go there first, please.
But then talent sourcing is by far the quickest when you talk about speed.
(24:29):
But it's not always the most effective and efficient because you're just
having to reach out to a lot of people and and get it done that
way. A lot of people use 3rd party recruiters.
There are some good ones out there. I certainly don't talk against them. It's just
usually they've got their people in the areas where they're at, and that's how they
recruit. And they would they would have reached out to you already if they had
(24:50):
somebody. So, you know, yes, that it's always
that, hey, hybrid of we're gonna start working tomorrow to bring somebody
in, but we're also gonna start working tomorrow to build a long term
recruitment plan for you. So that strategically,
you've got a bench. Right? Let's create a bench of people to where
when you need somebody, you've got somebody you can call versus having to go
(25:12):
back through the whole thing again. Yeah. No. That that's great. Can
you walk us through an example of a client that you've worked with and and
some of the results that you've been able to get for Tim? Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely. Probably one of the more recent one we had was,
you know, how DSOs tend to like to scale and buy things? You know, peep
people on our end are like, well, can you just hold for one second while
(25:33):
I try and get some things done here before you buy 10 more practices? But,
they they came to us. This is probably been a couple of years we've been
working with them and really wanted us to support for their internal
recruitment team. And they had great people on their internal recruitment
team, but their skill set wasn't really about outreach. It was
more they were good going to events and talking with people, and we're
(25:56):
not scared to go talk to people at events, great
campus recruiters, things like that, but it just wasn't moving fast enough.
And, so the organization was like, do we need to hire more recruiters?
Or what what do we need? So as we did more sourcing, provided more
resources for their department, over time,
once we got into that truth in recruiting, they were like majority of our
(26:19):
candidates are coming from sourcing. So either they're coming from Indeed
because this is a hot area where we don't need recruiters or these
outside people that are doing, you know, sourcing for,
a third of what we're paying 1 recruiter, are able to bring
us more leads than than they were. And, yeah,
so that's that's a lot of it is it's far less expensive.
(26:42):
I just think with some people, the pushback we get every once in a while
is, oh, I'd rather pay you upon placement. And
I'm like, Wealth, then you're gonna pay a lot more. You know, it's, so
for us, we were in marketing. So we're like, hey, let's go to work.
Right? And then do our jobs and get paid for it. And that's what's working.
And, you know, we we could probably charge more for it. I think everybody
(27:04):
can say that they feel they're good at something. But, you know, it's it's
definitely probably right now the number one tactic that's bringing in,
recruits the fastest and quality recruits because we're screening them to look at
their, actual cultural fit and looking at their
assessment and making sure they'll work in that practice. Yeah. Well, Ryan,
I think that that's a part that often gets left out is that right once
(27:27):
right. Getting that right fit. Like you said, if you've got a high volume practice,
you don't want someone who's not used to that. Right? You want that good
fit so that you've got that that culture match.
Because, you know, I I I I love this saying and I forget who said
it, but right. Either you're gonna get culture or culture is gonna get
you. Mhmm. And, you you gotta be aligned with
(27:47):
that. And and if you don't adopt to it, it's gonna eat you up and
throw you out. Yeah. We, everybody has a
culture. It's just whether or not it's the one they they want or not. And
Yeah. I'll give you prime example. Today, I was coaching a client
and she's got a pretty new staff in one of her offices. And she's
like, it just seems like they need a lot of attention. And I said,
(28:10):
that's probably true. Right? Think about adopting 4 kids all at once. You know, they
they don't know what they're doing. They don't know their rules or responsibilities. But what
I asked her was, I said, do you feel they're passionate about
dentistry? And do you feel they're passionate about, you know, your vision and
your success and the success of the practice? And are they proficient?
Because, you know, you can coach or train people up,
(28:32):
but if people have a bad attitude and they're, you know, very cynical,
that's a hard thing to ever overcome. And so that was
that got her thinking, did I bring some people in that may end up causing
problems down the road? So just a lot of different ways to look at
that. But culture is, I mean, literally the cornerstone
Yeah. Or the center of the universe as it relates to being successful in both
(28:55):
both marketing and recruiting, in my opinion. Yeah. Very, very, very true.
And and and and the landscape of recruiting certainly has changed just
a little bit over the last couple of years. What are some things that
that you see moving forward? And so, you know, pull out your crystal ball and
and and give us just a little feel of where you think this is moving.
(29:15):
In dentistry, it'll be interesting to see because we've been talking about this for over
a decade now. Right? Like, how how are DSOs in private practice
playing together and creating a great dental community? I think that's
that's important. I see more
smaller groups forming of of dentists that are like, hey. We wanna create some
passive income for ourselves, you know, so let's build up 5
(29:37):
or 6 practices. We're not looking to sell to DSO, get high multiples. They're not
walking around with ask me about my EBITDA shirts on. They're more like, hey.
We just really wanna, you know, build a good business,
and they're going to start attracting top talent. So I do see
I've seen that twice now in the past couple months where that is a
successful model. It's just really hard sometimes to find
(30:00):
the right dentist to partner together to do that, that that aren't thinking
about, you know, oh, how big can we take this? So, you
know, people wanna step away at some point. Dentistry is tough on people. I'm not
a Dentist, but every dentist that I'm friends with, even the ones in their late
thirties are like, so I think that's the biggest thing I'm seeing. And and certainly
recruiting and marketing will be a a huge, huge part of that. Okay.
(30:22):
Interesting. Very, very fascinating. And, so, you
know, let's talk a little bit about right? You know, you
build that recruiting pipeline. You got that in there. You talked about just kind of
the the ongoing coaching to to make sure that culture and and fits
there. But what are some of the the metrics that someone
should pay attention to when they're when they're looking at building a a
(30:44):
recruiting process out? What what are the metrics you pay attention to and look at?
So, Andrea, who works with me, will tell me I'm the worst person to ask
about numbers because I'm always like, I need to know just these 2 or
3 numbers because those are truly what will drive
decisions. But for us in recruiting,
it's time to hire and cost per hire.
(31:06):
And then from there, it's an analysis of, okay, how much money
does that associate bring in? Because this this
can be frustrating too. You might have found that quote warm body, but then
they get in and they're not even making enough to really justify their daily minimum.
So it's not just, now we finally got somebody, but now they're not performing
like the doctor that was there before. So how are you
(31:29):
attracting the people that can replace, you know, the the quality you
had before, especially when you're buying a practice and the owners leaving.
And I'm seeing that too. And that is tough. That is really
tough. These cold starts that when people buy them in Monday, it's a whole
new ownership group and new Dentist. That that's
a little rough. You're gonna be on a road to recovery with them.
(31:52):
But, yeah, Tim, it it happens. And, yeah, it can
be a good thing too. But, it's just making sure
everybody's kind of rolling in the same direction, and bringing
people in that fit the culture of that practice or
having to bring a lot of people in and change the culture of the practice.
Nice. Well and and as we've been talking, I pulled up your
(32:15):
website here, Venture Practices, and you've got just a
fantastic resource section on here
for recruitment. I'm gonna put that down on the chat for everyone, and and
tell us a little bit about what we can find on there. I know I'm
seeing everything from, you know, creating a relatable brand
to, you know, ways to to, you know, really
(32:36):
look for that proficiency in the recruiting. But but what are some of those resources
that you would encourage people to check out? Yeah. We have found for
us the best way to work with clients is through
programs first. Right? We wanna bring a little value in advance.
So lots of times Wealth talk through those DISC and value assessments. Like, hey. Once
you take one of these, it's not gonna cost you anything. We'll debrief it. That
(32:58):
way, I get a kind of an idea of how leadership looks,
and they get an idea of of how I coach. So that's just a value
in advance thing that we do. The second kind of program we get to is
that branding one where we look at that employer brand. And then,
of course, usually people need our help sourcing at that point.
So we we get into, an engagement of sourcing where we
(33:20):
build out that practice profile, really start to polish up with that looks. We can
do that in, you know, couple weeks and get going pretty quickly. We've got
a very, very locked up system on how we outreach. With
email and text, that all changed at the beginning of the year of how you
can be compliant. And so we really had to work through those challenges, but we've
done that. So a lot of people come to us because they've they've lost
(33:42):
that kind of success there. And then the long term play
is either helping you coach your internal
recruiters and think about strategy and really going
through here all the different ways that you can recruit people?
Which one of these bring the most value to you?
I'll give you a prime example. We had, a group that they
(34:04):
had 4 practices they could not bring Dentist to. And we just beat our head
against the wall. All of us did. And then McNeely, what we realized was
okay. Some people are having success bringing
in, you know, out of country doctors that are now
graduating and and getting, you know, I always
say certified, but getting their licenses here in the United States that are willing to
(34:26):
work. They they wanna go work somewhere and, let's find a pipeline of that.
And it's been very successful in those particular owners that that was happening with,
happened to be, you know, very compatible in that way. So it it worked out
and it was kinda one of those moments. So we're trying to find
those creative ways to recruit. I think that's probably our
strength is from a strategy perspective. We'll we'll get really creative with
(34:49):
it. Excellent. No. I I love that. So I and,
Ben, how can we get in touch with you? How can we find you? Yeah.
Venturepractices.com is is probably the the best way. We've certainly
got, you know, on social media and YouTube channel and all that. But,
I'm perfectly fine with people emailing me. It's b shaver@venturepractices
dotcom. But, you know, on on our websites, call to
(35:12):
actions, resources, great ways to schedule with me or
Britney or Andrea, depending on what your immediate need is, you know,
whether that's coaching with me, whether that's, you know, the recruitment
consulting and getting the sourcing starting with Britney or Andrea who can really dig
into your numbers and and find out, you know, where there's some inefficiencies.
But, yeah, definitely, website's probably the best way to get get in touch with us.
(35:35):
Okay. And what about any of the the shows that go on? Are you at
any of the the different dental events? Can we find you there?
Yeah. I do the obscure ones. Like, I was like, Dental Podfest Okay.
Last month. You know, those are the ones that kinda because I like to talk
to the the people that are really out there influencing.
(35:59):
Dental community here locally. So I do a lot of resources,
talks there. Like, I'm doing a culture talk, next week for the women
DSO. So it's yeah. It's so regionally, like,
with some of the bigger events we do get to, like Daikaman, DEO,
but, yeah, we're So we can keep our eye out
for you with those those events too. That's why I always like to ask that.
(36:21):
So any closing thoughts before we we sign off, Ben?
Yeah. I mean, the big thing is is not to get discouraged. You know, there's
we've never worked with somebody that didn't have a path forward.
So just, you know, exhaust every resource, do your research. I
know the COOs and CEOs of these DSOs are running a
mile a minute and just don't have time to sit down and spend
(36:43):
15 minutes. But know, give us 15 minutes to kind of talk through it. We're
not, you know, necessarily trying to sell you something. We'll give you some advice right
away. Like I said, value in advance, just to see if it's something that would
be helpful for you. You. Or or even if you can figure out how to
execute it yourself easier, we we help people with that too.
So, yeah, that's kind of the parting note is just get in touch with us,
have a conversation. Yeah. I I would encourage you. If you're
(37:06):
listening, do that. Right? In in in what Ben is demonstrating this is a
principle I always believe in. It's it's who can add value first. Right? You wanna
add value to the Nation. And this is something Ben's offering to to help you
out with. So take advantage of that. Do that phone call and,
you may just find that solution that that you've been looking for. So, Ben,
hey, thank you for just making a difference in such a a a
(37:28):
tough area of dentistry right now. So, you know, the the teeth is
hard, like, you know, running the practice is hard, but, you know, finding good quality
people, that's a major challenge. And it and it's so nice to know that
you are bringing a solution to a lot of these practices out there. So thank
you for that. Well yeah. And I appreciate that. And, Tim, thank you for all
the work you do because, you know, it's people like you that get good information
(37:50):
out there so people can make good informed decisions. Yep.
It's always helping make the Dental community stronger. Now I I always tell
people you're one decision away from from whatever it is you're looking for. Right? You're
just one good decision away. So so keep making decisions, and you'll
make the right one sooner or later. That's true. Right? And you gotta
keep talking to people to to find that out. So That was what I was
(38:11):
gonna say. I'm always like your one person away from from figuring it out. So
Yep. Exactly. Well, hey. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you found this
helpful. Leave like your comments below, and we'll see you again here
soon on the Dental Wealth Nation Show. Thanks, Tim.
You've been listening to Dental Wealth Nation. We hope you've gotten
some useful and practical information from the show. Join us
(38:34):
next time as we pull back the curtain to reveal the often
hidden advice and strategies used by today's most
successful individuals and families and help maximize your
net worth so you can take even better care of the people you
love. Till next time. Make sure to hit the website at
dentalwealthnation.com Nation.
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