Journey into Tennis and Its Iconic Players

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The episode invites listeners into the world of tennis, unraveling its unique scoring and rules while highlighting personal experiences and rivalries. As Mike explains the intricacies of the sport, the hosts aim to make tennis accessible and enjoyable for everyone.

• Introduction to tennis and personal connections 
• Mike's journey through tennis fandom 
• Explanation of tennis scoring and rules 
• Differences between singles and doubles matches 
• Overview of the four Grand Slam tournaments 
• Exploration of court surfaces and their impact on play 
• Discussion on coaching and player training 
• Evolution of umpire roles and electronic systems 
• Emphasis on the community aspect of the sport 
• Call to action to learn and engage with tennis

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Is anybody there?
All right, all right.
Well, welcome everybody to theDHC podcast.
My name is Ed, and get ready,everybody, Get ready, because

(00:23):
this is the episode many peopleare not going to see coming.
This is a very, very surprisingepisode for me.
With me I have a good friend,fellow podcaster, Mr Mike
Sellers.
I will ask you here in a secondto talk about your podcast here

(00:44):
.
But you know how you been myfriend, how is everything?
How is everything going withyou?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Other than the extremely terrible weather I'm
going through right here in Ohioright now, it's going good.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
I was in Ohio a couple of weeks ago.
Were you Last week.
Actually, that's the time ofthis recording.
Yeah, it was not fun recording.
Yeah, it was not fun.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
From what I understand, it sounds like Ohio
is not exclusive to thisterrible weather across the
country right now, but it isterrible right now.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
We had some snow and everything here in North
Carolina, so, whatever, beforewe continue, guys, I want to
make sure that you guys arealways in the know.
So make sure to go to theYouTube channel, because I am
recording this one as a video aswell.
It will go to the youtubechannel because I am recording
this one as a video as well.
Uh, so it will be on theyoutube channel.
Uh, that had chronicles.
Uh, make sure you subscribe andyou like this uh episode

(01:32):
wherever you get your podcast,so that way you guys are always
in the know.
And then make sure you tell onemore person about it all.
Right now that we got thebusiness out of the way, are you
ready?

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I'm very ready.
Ever since you asked me aboutthis, I'm like I haven't been
this excited for an interview ina long time.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
All right, so the topic of this episode tonight is
going to be tennis.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
You heard that, right , everybody, it is tennis.
The reason I wanted to talkabout tennis?
Because for years now, you andme, we've been going back and
forth about the sport andeverything, and then what better
person to teach me the sportfrom a high level, right, you
know, obviously none of us canplay.
I, you know, it is what it is,but you watch a lot more, uh,

(02:25):
tennis than I do.
You are, you know, pretty mucheducated when it comes to that.
So I want I have a set ofquestions, okay.
So here's what happened.
I ended up going on chad gptand I was like chad gpt set a
set of questions for me to asksomeone about the sport of
tennis.
And you know what?
Obviously, I made somemodifications to this list, but

(02:50):
I like these questions.
So I'm going to ask thesequestions and then we're going
to have a conversation aboutthis and let's see how this goes
, because we have no idea.
But here we go, all right, allright.
So first of all, I want to knowmy question to you is, as a fan
of the sport, like, what gotyou interested in tennis?
Like why?

Speaker 2 (03:10):
So that's a yeah, that's a good question because
you know, like the more commonsports, like obviously football,
baseball, basketball, is justwhat I grew up watching.
I grew up watching, but my dad,uh, he was just like a fan of
every sport to some degree, justwhatever the season was.

(03:30):
There would just be a littlebit of that on tv again.
Obviously the major sports farmore, but when there's the indy
500 for racing, we'd be watchingit.
If there was, you know, themasters and golf, like some of
the bigger events like this, soto to speak, it would be on TV.
Typically we weren't as into itand stuff like that, but for
some reason when the tennis wason, I just liked it a lot more

(03:54):
than the other lesser-knownsports.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
You just gravitated towards that, huh.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, that's the word I was looking for.
And then, for whatever reasontoo, we watched it a little bit
like said growing up, but it waswhen I was about uh 12 or 13
and this seems like somethingI'm just making up because of
the way it turned out, but it'strue story.
One of the first tournamentswhen I was really getting
focused in on it was, uh,Wimbledon 2003, and I decided

(04:23):
that while I was watching it,one of the guys in there I
started really liking, and thatguy's uh name was roger federer.
And yeah, and that guy, he wonthe tournament was his first
grand slam title.
so the fact that I then started,uh, had a not just interest in
the sport but started actuallyhaving the person, specific
person, to root for, and thenthat was right when he was taken

(04:45):
off, so the fact that he was sogood to obviously gave me even
more of a rooting interest.
And so, yeah, just slowly grewfrom there.
And then two of my brothersboth started watching it a
little more as I watched alittle more, and then over time
one of them became a fan ofNadal, the other one became a
fan of Djokovic.
So we had this whole siblingrivalry going to of our favorite

(05:06):
players all going back andforth.
So whenever they played, therewas that added, you know,
rivalry going on in ourhousehold too.
So so that's your player.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
That was your favorite player yeah federer.
Okay, that's awesome dude.
Yeah, I like it, thank you.
Thank you, I like it, I like itall.
Right, you know, and listen, Iam not a, I'm not someone who,
uh, it's going to be like, oh, Ijust mess with you.
To be honest with you, like Ireally don't hate any sport, you
know, I'll watch anything.
Yeah, you know Coco golf, youknow, like, I mean the girls.

(05:37):
Like, obviously, at the time ofthis recording, the Australian
australian open is going on.
Um, she made a lot of mistakes,from what I understand,
eliminated and no longer, youknow, participating in the
australian open.
Do you get that right?
You got that?

Speaker 2 (05:50):
right, and she did make it to the I think it was
the quarterfinals where she goteliminated too, so she still
still had a pretty goodtournament.
She just lost a little soonerthan she was didn't expect yeah,
okay, all right, all right.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
So let's talk about somewhat.
And again, I'm not, I'm notgoing to pretend that I'm an
expert in this sport.
I am, obviously I'm not.
I am what you called a novicein the sport.
So I want you to teach me herewhat are some of the basic rules
that I, as a, as a fan oftennis, should know.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
I think if you're starting to like tennis, the
first basic thing you need tolearn is the scoring system,
because it's so much differentthan any other sport and I like
it because, yeah, it takes alittle bit of time to learn it
because it can be a littleconfusing.
But before I get into what thespecifics of the scoring system
are, what I like about it is,unlike most sports, it's like

(06:50):
you're never out of it.
You can say the same forbaseball, because there's no
time.
But this is even more thanbaseball, because baseball you
still only have so many chancesbecause there's still 27 outs,
all that stuff.
So if the team's got a, a largelead, they could not play well
the last couple inningsthemselves and still just hang
on to win.
But in tennis you're basicallyplaying to a score.

(07:11):
So even if someone is winningby a lot, they still have to
keep scoring more points toactually finish it off.
So a large lead is nevercompletely safe, which is one
thing I like about it and theway it kind of breaks down it.
Also some points.
You know every point istechnically worth the same
amount.
It kind of gets to a certainpoint where some points are more

(07:33):
valuable than others where youknow you could be one or two
points away from getting a hugelead or the other person
completely tying the match.
So, okay, how I'll get intothat is there's, um.
So basically there are slightdifferences between men and
women.
Okay, scoring.
The only, the only differencein the scoring is men will

(07:56):
sometimes play best of five sets, women always, 100 of the time,
is just best of three sets whyis is that?
Because stamina the men can havemore stamina.
Because these five-set matches.
It's not rare for it to takethree or four hours.
It sometimes takes five and sixhours.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
I think the longest tennis match has been 11 hours.
I believe it was.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It was yeah, and they changed the rules since then to
basically get where youbasically can't have that long
of a match before again, andI'll explain that in a minute
what they've changed.
But that's the only realdifference between the men and
women.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Five for men sets yeah, and three for women,
correct, okay, all right.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
And because of the additional time, even the men
only do the best of five inthese grand slam events like the
australian open, french open,wimbledon and us open.
So when it's okay any of theother tournaments.
Even the men are only doingbest of three okay, okay, okay.
Okay, so that's the first thing.
You got to win two sets.
Again, the best of three.
I'm just kidding.
Now I got that out of the way,I'm just going to go off of it

(09:11):
being best of three.
So, yeah, I win two sets, andto win a set you've got to win
six games, and to win a game yougot to win four points.
So that's the very simplisticversion of it.
But a single game is when yougot.
You got in the four points, butwhen you score starts out as

(09:31):
zero, zero, but they call itlove, and then zero.
Zero is love correct anythingwith the zero in tennis they
refer to as love okay so let'sjust say we're playing the first
point of the match, the game'sjust started.
It's love.
Someone scores a point.
It's not 1-0.
It's 15-love.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Okay, 15-love Okay.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Then the person gets another point, it's 30-love.
They get the third point, it's40-love.
Then if they get that fourthpoint, it's 40 love.
And then if they get thatfourth point, they win the game
and now it's 1-0 in the set okaytime out, because we're going.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
The first point you get is 15, then you double it up
30, that's 2 points, and then,instead of going to 45, you're
going to go to 40.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
So there's and from what I can gather, they don't
even know for a fact thereasoning for that.
But I've heard two schools ofthought.
Okay, one of them is that itwas originally 15, 30, 45, but
that the people that wereplaying it whenever they were
like just saying out loud whatthe score was they were just

(10:48):
verbally were shortening the 45to 40 because just save time or
whatever, and that theyeventually just cut it to 40.
But what I believe is the moremore likely option is that when
tennis started they said theykept score by using like a clock
.
So they would like to score onepoint, they would move it to
the 15.
You score another point, youmove it to the 30, then the 45.

(11:11):
And when you get to the top youscore.
But here's the reason why itwould change to 40 instead of 45
.
Because if both people get to40 before anyone gets that
fourth point, then they call itdeuce.
You have to win by two points.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
So it could be an unlimited amount.
You could play a hundred points.
You have to win by two 41, 42.
No, it's just 40, 40.
And then it's advantage Ifwe're playing and I get the
first point, it's advantage,shellers.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
And if you tie it up it's just deuce again.
Man listen, Okay, Okay Okay.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
So that being the case again, imagining you're
keeping score on this clock theyswitched it supposedly to where
you're at 40, and then if youget the advantage, they just
move it by 10.
So all of a sudden they move itup to the 50.
If it's a tie, again they justbring it back to 40, but then
because obviously otherwise yougo overboard.
So that's the couple variationsI've heard of, why they do it

(12:13):
that way.
But giving get past thereasoning once you win by two,
once you get at least fourpoints and win by two, then
you're up one to nothing in theone to nothing games in the set.
Now you play to six games, butsimilarly, if you get to five to
five, you gotta win by two aswell.
Right, but because this?

(12:35):
Because this is a lot more thanjust individual points it would
take a lot longer to win by twogames.
So if you both get to six, thenthey do what they call a tie
break, and then you got to scoreseven points, still got to win
by two.
But whoever does, whoever getsto seven points and wins by two,
wins the set.
Now, if it's the final set, sothe third set of a best of three

(13:00):
or the fifth set of a best offive.
You, they play the tie break to10 points instead of seven.
Just extended a little bit, butthat's the rule change.
And that's the rule change Iwas talking about a little bit
earlier because it used to be inthat fifth set.
They just didn't do that tiebreak at all.
They just said you had to winby two games period so that
longest.

(13:20):
That longest match ever went to70 to 68 in the, the fifth and
deciding match.
And that's not points, that'sgames which are at least four
points per game.
So that match took three daysand 11 hours.
So you can see why that's.
Technically it could happen,because it's still unlimited
points theoretically thatsomeone could score, but, excuse

(13:44):
me, extremely unlikely now thatit could ever get that high.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Why do they confuse it?
Why do they make it soconfusing?

Speaker 2 (13:55):
That's a good question, but once you do get it
down, like I said, the scoringis great because, since it's by
sets, it's almost like a WorldSeries.
You can have one terrible game,but still just one to nothing.
So there's that, and what Ilike is then, if it gets into
the tie break, like I wastalking, where you gotta win,
gotta get seven points and winby two yeah like, let's say, I'm

(14:18):
already down one set to nothingand we're playing, and it's uh,
six to six in the tiebreak.
If you score the next point allof a sudden, you're now one
single point away from winningthe whole match.
But if I won that point instead, I'm one point away from
breaking it completely.
Even so, that's where it's like, technically, all these points

(14:39):
are equal.
But when you get in situationslike that, the pressure mounts
so much and that's why you trulyare never actually out of it.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
This is wild.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
It is wild.
I remember when I was watchingit as a kid, like I said, I
would kind of casually watch it.
My mom she would.
If it was the championshipmatch, especially if it was
Federer versus Nadal, she wouldsit down and kind of watch it
with us.
But that was about the onlysituation.
So every time we'd have toexplain all these rules to her,
and then she wouldn't watch itagain for a long time.

(15:10):
So she would get it, but thenshe wouldn't watch it again for
a long time.
So when it came down a yearlater, whenever we'd watch it,
we'd have to explain it to heragain.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, yeah, dude, that's a lot bro.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
It is.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
I'm a little exhausted just from explaining
it yeah, I mean we're almost 20minutes in and then you've
already lost me with the scoring.
I mean we haven't even talkedabout, like you know,
differences between singles anddoubles.
You know how to, what's theproper way of swinging the
tennis racket, you know whenyou're serving and how you
settle that man listen.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, and even that was probably a pretty fairly
summed up version of, I mean,that was the rules, but I was
still even felt like I was evenkind of rushing through it a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
How long did it take you to learn all these rules?

Speaker 2 (15:58):
The scoring specifically or or everything
else, yeah the scoring.
You know, not, not as long asyou would think.
I mean, I guess it tookprobably a lot longer to get to
some of those specifics as faras like, well, if it's the fifth
set, you go to 10.
And why they call it 15, 30, 40.
That stuff took years, yeah forsure.

(16:18):
But the basics of 15, 30, 40,love or love, 15, 30, 40.
Yeah, win 40, yeah, um, win sixgames when a set to set, two or
three sets to win that stuffwas.
If you're actually watching amatch, you can get that part
pretty fast if you're payingattention okay, let me ask you
this, okay, so, so there's.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
You know, obviously we're going to go with the, with
version of, you know, not theGrand Slams or anything like
that, but set a best of three,right, how many?
Not you know, not like the 1530, but like how many actual
points in order to win the set.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
If, like you never get, if you the bare minimum,
basically yeah.
If you never get the bareminimum, basically, yeah.
So if you get the bare minimum,if you won every single point,
basically you would only need 24points to win a set.
Okay, that's assuming you winevery game, that's assuming none
of those games go to deuce.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
All right.
So you got one point right towin a game.
What's that?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Four points to win a game.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Six games to win a set okay, so technically one
point equals one game fourpoints equals one game all right
.
So one game, one point, okay.
Four points, one game, no, no,okay.
But I'm talking about, like you, know, that you got the one

(17:45):
point.
Okay, four points, one game, no, no, okay, I'm talking about.
You know you got the one, two,three, best of Okay.
So you're talking about games.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Yeah, so each set consists of games, each game
consists of points.
So the set that you have to winsix of you have to win six
games.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
You're giving me a headache already, bro.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
That's why you heard the term.
Your game set match right.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Obviously that's where it comes from.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
So the umpire every time someone wins a game, All
right, so you know you got theone, the two and the three right
, you know, yeah, okay.
So how do you determine whowins that first one and the
second one and third one?
By how many games?
I'm probably gonna get thiswrong.
How many games, correct.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
if ever gets six games, all right, the first to
get to six is the one who winsone correct unless, like I said,
you both get to five, then yougotta get to seven, but because
you gotta win, by two, yeah, butif you both get to seven, but
Cause you got to?
Win by two.
Yeah, but if you both get tosix, then that's when you go
with the tiebreaker, so youcould win seven, six.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Okay, the tiebreaker.
Okay, gotcha, okay, okay, okay,okay, okay, okay, all right, so
, but you got to win best ofthree.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
So if you win the first two, it's just that you
don't have to play the third.
Yeah, got it.
Okay, all right, I thought.
I thought that you know therewere.
It's like you know like soccerwas confusing.
You know, on the lines, orhockey, on the blue line, red
line, you know like that took mea little bit to understand but
I got it really quickly.
You know, like lacrosse is easyto understand, football is easy

(19:30):
to understand, football is easyto understand baseball hell it,
baseball is easy to understandtennis, jesus, y'all took the
cake when it comes to, like youknow, the scoring system and
just making it.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
It's just so complicated.
Well, that's why I say that'sthe first thing you gotta learn,
at least in all the othersports.
For the most part you might notknow how they score exactly,
but you know a higher score isbetter at least right um, yeah,
so this, like it's not even thisis jama god, oh lord, yeah,
yeah, exactly okay, all right,okay.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
So we got that part, we got the scoring.
Okay, now I'm moving on.
You know we're going to go towatch a match, okay, all right.
There's a bunch of lines on thefield, on the court, correct,
okay?

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Talk to me about that , okay.
Well, it will be a little moredifficult to kind of explain it
without having to do it here.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
For those of you that are watching or even listening
to this, pull up a sketch of thetennis court and then we'll go
from there.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Exactly so, basically .
So each side has a rectangle,it's not entirely square, but
it's a rectangle, so like if I'mstanding at the end of the
court and I'm looking towardsthe opponent.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
So from that direction there'll be a line
right down the middle Yep, andthen the half, if I'm on the
left.
If I'm serving on the right,then you've got to be receiving
on the left.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
And it switches every other point.
So if I serve on the right, thenext point I'll be serving from
the left and the receiver hasto go to the other side as well.
The opposite of you, correct.
And so on my own specific halfof the court, there were like so
there's a line down the middle,so the half that's closer to me
is just that one square again,not not actually square

(21:15):
rectangle rectangle yeah noindividual lines in between
there, but the the half that'scloser to the net.
There will be another line justsplit down the middle, the
opposite way, so left and right.
So if I'm serving to the otherside of the net, I have to get
it again.

(21:36):
If I'm on the right side andI'm serving, I have to serve it
to the left side of that linebut on the closer half to the
net.
So there's basically basicallya quarter of your entire side of
the court that I have to serveit into, Okay, and?
And you know what side it isleft or right to be.
So you're prepared for it thatway.

(21:57):
And after I serve it, at thatpoint you both of us can hit it
wherever we want.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
After the serve, it doesn't matter.
You don't have to hit itdiagonally.
It's only when you serve thatyou have to hit it on the other
side of the line.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
From then on it's just free-for-all now, and we
might get into this a little bitlater.
But as far as there's also alittle an additional line
extending the court wider, notlonger, but wider on both sides,
you'll see those courts evenwhen the play in singles, but
those are only used for whendoubles, basically just making

(22:35):
the court larger.
That's all that, that's for,but a little.
A little known fact that mostpeople don't know unless you
follow it pretty closely, is,once you again, the serve has to
be what the way I justexplained it.
After that point, people don'tactually have to hit it over the
net.
Now the net covers that whole,whole box, so it's almost wait,

(22:58):
wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
You don't have to hit it over the net, you don't have
to know so where the hell areyou gonna?

Speaker 2 (23:06):
hit it well, 99.99999 for the time you would have to
hit it over the net to get itover correct.
Okay, there's these extremelyrare times where, like, player a
will hit it so far onto theright side or left or whatever
right side, like just barely onthe line, but it's in, and then

(23:27):
player B has to run so far fromthe other way to get to there
that if he still gets to theball he's way beyond the net at
this point.
So if he hits the ball, as longas he gets it on the court,
correct, so he can hit it aroundthe net on that side and as
long as it lands in the court,it's live, still, again, and
that side.
And as long as it lands in thecourt, it's a it's live, still
and again.
That's almost impossible to dobecause a that opportunity

(23:47):
doesn't present itself veryoften and B it's just hard to do
even when it does.
But I've seen it a few times.
You also also can't touch thenet.
So these times when player abloops it over the net just a
little bit and you have to runand charge just to get to it, if
you succeed and get to the ballbut you just go a little too

(24:08):
far and you put your hand on thenet, you lose.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
But the ball can touch the net.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
The ball can touch the net correct, but not on the
serve.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
No.
It can be while you're playing,not on the serve.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Right.
If it hits the net on the serve, it's a point to the other
player, not necessarily what.
If it's a person serving for thefirst time and they don't get
it in that box, then it's afault and they get one do-over.
Basically, if they fail again,then it's a point, it's 15 for

(24:43):
the other person.
But if it hits the net anddoesn't land in the box, then
it's still just the same kind offault.
But if it hits the net and doesland in the box, it's not a
fault and it's not good.
They call it a let and it'sbasically just a do-over.
But it's still your first serve.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Why are you guys complicating the bologna
sandwich here I?

Speaker 2 (25:07):
didn't make the rules , I just.
I just enjoy them yeah, well,no kidding um, I have a headache
all right, it's a lot to likefor me, a lot to digest, yeah,
especially just like to thissport, dude, like I mean, sweet,
mother of god.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
I thought they're like, like I said, like you know
, a lot of people's like oh mygod, baseball's so complicated
with so many rules.
No, man, it's not I mean, Ifeel like every sport to some
degree, depending on howdetailed you're getting yeah
across like how far down in theweeds you get into it, but like
sweet lord, like what the in thegod's green earth like why?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
right, for sure, and yeah, but but again it's,
there's a beauty to it because,like I said, it's not only to
the point that you have to.
You have to keep scoring points, even if you got a huge lead.
You have to keep scoring pointsto win.
And then, like I said, there'sthose scenarios where one or two
points could, in the match, orcompletely tie it and stuff okay
, all right.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
I mean, listen, I I get it and you know not really,
but I get it, but that's a lotall right, okay, okay, uh.
So we went over that, we wentover the the court.
Um uh, is there obviously, likefor example, in football, in
baseball, in basketball, thereis a set uniform that you have

(26:24):
to wear in tennis, is there auniform?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
um no, now I will.
I'm sure there are, you know,just some sort of like decency
stuff that you have to wear andstuff like obviously, um.
But other than that, the onlyever uh like specific rule on
uniform I have heard is that atwimbledon in london the players
always have to wear white.

(26:52):
Like that's just the court rule, um so how far does that rule
go?
How far back?
Or you mean like how strict.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
Are they back?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I.
They've been playing thetournament for about 150 years.
I think it's always been thatway.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
And then also also how serious do they get with
that?

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Oh, very serious.
There have been times wheresometimes these players will be
wearing t-shirts or whateverunderneath their uniform, and
sometimes they have been brightcolors or whatever, and if they
if that was the case and theycould be seen they would get
fined.

(27:38):
Now they've relaxed on thatpart of it the last couple years
as long as, like, the actualoutside outfit is white, but,
but now I will say, though theyat least will.
All these players havesponsorships, deals and stuff.
Now 99% of them are literallyjust wearing the Nike logo or
the Adidas logo or whatever.

(27:59):
That can be red, blue, whatever.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
As long as the full shirt is, or the and the pants
are white, Correct.
So the purity of the sport.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm sure.
And again it's England.
Yeah, they're a little fancierthan we are here in America.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Sure Okay, let's go with that.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
But as far as I'm aware, it's not.
Every other place can wearwhatever colors and whatever
types of uniforms, but not theall England club.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
All right, a lot of people are enjoying this
conversation right now.
I feel like such a fish out ofwater right now.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I guess yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
You know what I mean.
Like I've watched it before andall that and I've always
wondered, like what are therules?
Like why did they do that?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
And you know I mean I mean, listen, some of these
guys are super strong and theythe way that ball comes out out
of that racket, right, and it'sliterally a rocket uh so it's
just for sure, and yeah, I meanI'm still always learning stuff
as I'm watching it too likethere's, you know, like you said

(29:10):
earlier, you know I don't playit, so there's a lot of like
those types of techniques that Idon't know much about.
But I know, like from watchingit, you know these players will
have you know, five rackets theybring and if one of them is not
playing well, they'll saythings like well, they're going
to switch to racket to gettighter, tighter strings for,
for more power, or things likethat.
But I still haven't gotten downpat, uh, all what the tighter

(29:34):
strings mean, or looser stringsor whatever.
But I do know they havedifferent things like that where
they'll switch the racketsdepending on how they're playing
, for different reasons, likethat interesting, so racket
plays a huge part.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, yeah exactly Like the way the tightness of
the strings on the racketCorrect.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, I'm sure that I can imagine there's a wide
range of how loose and tight youcan get it, but from what I
gather just from watching it, itcan play a decent difference
still okay, uh, all right.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
So what's the difference between singles and
doubles?

Speaker 2 (30:18):
so the first biggest thing obviously is kind of what
we talked about earlier, wherethe court is actually wider.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Um, obviously they're playing on the same court.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
But there's those additional lines um, excuse me,
that's obviously the firstbiggest thing um and uh they.
So I don't follow the doublesnearly as close.
Nearly as close, so I could getsome of these details wrong,
but from what I right all right,here we go population town,

(30:48):
here we go Population town.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Here we go.
Population Mike.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
They're not extremely detailed.
So I'm pretty confident inthese couple things.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
It's just not as much information I get it, I get it.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
For example, let's say me and you are on the same
team playing doubles againstPatrick and Donnie, for example.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
Oh, that would'll be good one here, you know, we
gotta be careful because, donnie, you know, senior citizen, you
know we don't want him to breakhis knee we'll take it easy on
him, sorry.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
So if it's our turn to serve and it's my turn to
serve, okay um, then me and youwill still go left and right on
the court taking turns likenormal, correct?
but patrick and donnie, they'restaying on the same side no
matter what you're serving yeah,so I'll serve first point to

(31:42):
patrick or whatever, and thenI'll be serving the next point
to donnie.
So it'll rotate in that way now.
Now they will.
They as receivers whoever'sreceiving the serve will be back
behind the line, Whoever's notreceiving the serve will be
close to the net.
So there's that set up.
And then the one other thingwhich I think this has not been

(32:03):
going on for super long, butwhen you get to the scoring, if
oh God yeah, but when you get,to the scoring.
If each person, each team, winsone set, rather than playing a
third entire set, they just gostraight to the 10-point
tiebreak.
So basically one set each.

(32:24):
Then we just play best to 10points, but got to win by two to
finish it off, yeah, which iskind of.
I think the main point withthat is I I think they all know
that singles is where it's at asfar as like popularity and
things like that.
They just want to end it quick.
I kind of think that's the case.
But it's also kind of ironicbecause you should have far more

(32:49):
energy left when you're playingdoubles.
So you think it must be theother way around, that if you're
playing singles they'll limitthe action, but no, Okay.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Well, guys, I just want you guys to know that this
is truly an episode of the DataHack Chronicles podcast.
I am learning tennis.
How effective this is going tobe is yet to be determined,
because there's a lot of rulesinto this game.
But before we continue, guys,make sure that you guys are

(33:23):
signing up to the podcastwherever you are listening.
Make sure you hit the likebutton as well as the subscribe
button.
Make sure you also follow mygood friend here, mike.
He's on all socials and then,yeah, all right, mike.
So what are the four Grand Slamtournaments?

Speaker 2 (33:47):
There is the Australian Open in Melbourne or
melbourne.
That's what's going on rightnow yep at the time of this
recording okay, yeah, so uh, mid, mid to late january is when
they do that, and all of themlast two weeks, uh, all the
majors not every tournamentperiod, all these majors slash

(34:07):
grand slams.
That's the first one and that'splayed on hard court surface.
I don't know how close you payattention, but there's multiple
different types of surfaces onthe courts here we go so we get
into that in a minute if youwant, yeah, but then there's the
french open, that is obviouslyin france and paris, that is, uh
, it's around Memorial Day andthat is played on clay, red clay

(34:31):
and then around IndependenceDay, ironically, is in England
the Wimbledon, and that isplayed on grass.
And then finally, around LaborDay, here in America, new York,
is the US Open, which is also onhardcore.
Okay, so there's grass.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Finally, around Labor Day, here in America, new York,
is the US Open, which is alsoon Hardcourt.
Okay, so there's grass, there'sclay, there's hard surface,
correct?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
So there is technically they have a couple
other things, like they havecarpet and they have some like
indoor Hardcourt, outdoorHardcourt, but you never see
those.
It's basically just the threegrass, hard court and clay.
Okay, so from just a viewer'suh standpoint, the only
difference you notice is thecolor of the court.

(35:19):
But in reality there'sdifferences in the speed of the
ball, how it, how high itbounces the spins on the ball
for each surface, and so whenyou follow it closely enough
over time you'll learn thatcertain players can be way
better or way worse on certainsurfaces just depending on their

(35:40):
style of play.
So, like a grass court, that'smore for the players that are
aggressive because the ballmoves faster.
Really, on, the ball movesfaster.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Really On the grass.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Yeah, it's fastest on grass than on hard court and
slowest on clay.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
I would have thought that would have been the hard
surface, that would have beenthe fastest.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I agree, it seems like it would be.
It is On the hard surface theball bounces higher and then on
the grass it bounces lowest, soclay's in between.
And then there's things toolike like a hard court and the
grass, but especially the hardcourt, you can't really slide
much.
Like if you're going left toright you, you just can't slide

(36:26):
too much, blowing clay.
You can slide really far.
So, again, depending on yourstyle of play, exactly like
Rafael Nadal, if you're watchinghim, he's sliding left and
right and stuff.
That's why he's always winningthe French Open, which is on
clay.
So yeah, there's differentstyles of play, just some fit
others better.
So, like I said, if you watchit, if you follow it closely,

(36:48):
you do learn over time.
Like this, others better.
So I said, if you watch it, ifyou follow it closely, you do
learn over time.
Like this player always wins onclay but can't win on grass at
all or whatever.
And yeah, hardcore is kind oflike the, the neutral, almost.
Like some people are better onhardcore than the others, but I
think that's more a matter ofbeing worse on the others I got
you, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
So I'm going to ask this, knowing that there's going
to be some crazy cockamamieanswer, not from you, but just
overall.
Because tennis, all right,we've already talked about the
different kinds of surfaces.
Okay, now, is there, based oneach surface, is there a

(37:35):
specific kind of tennis ball oris it pretty much the same
tennis ball?

Speaker 2 (37:39):
I've never heard of a difference in the tennis ball,
so I believe it's always thesame kind of tennis ball now I
am right Now I will say theychange the tennis balls.
I think it's like every sixgames or so.
At a certain amount of thetimes they will get a fresh set
of tennis balls.
So in the middle of anindividual match you will see

(38:02):
them talking about thedifferences between, like, oh,
these fresh balls and the onesare getting older and stuff.
Oh God, okay, yep, no, no,continue.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Continue, continue.
Balls and the ones are gettingolder and stuff, but oh god,
okay, yep, no, no, continue,continue, continue.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
but yeah, it's not to my knowledge, there's not
different, different kinds fordifferent surfaces or anything
like that all right, okay.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Is there a difference in tennis rackets for each
player?

Speaker 2 (38:29):
um, similar to like we were talking about their
clothing styles.
They'll have deals withdifferent manufacturers, so I
mean, some people will havetheir own brands and every brand
could be slightly different,but it's not a matter of just
like.
Oh, there's exactly threestyles of rackets and it's

(38:50):
always a, b or c it's.
It's just the same generalsetting but different brands and
, like we said, you know,sometimes we'll have tighter
strings, looser strings, whichcan make some differences.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
So that's where you see the difference.
It's the tighter strings on theracket.
You know also, I'm sure theycould play um.
It could play a huge advantageor disadvantage if you're using
them, depending also on thecourt, correct?

Speaker 2 (39:14):
For sure, for sure, and you'll even see the grip
they have.
You can see that in just astore, at Walmart or whatever I
do.
They have that wrap like thetape, almost like you can wrap
around the grips.
So the grips can vary slightly,more than anything.
I think it's just a matter ofbeing worn out or fresh as well,

(39:36):
but you'll see, or sweaty orwhatever right, but you'll see
them similarly.
You know re-taping that andstuff and even the, the actual
part of the racket.
It's not a it's all the samebasic shape, but again, some are
, you know, slightly more narrow, slightly fatter, or whatever

(39:56):
you want to call it.
So there's slight differenceslike that as well.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
I mean wow, that's a, that's a lot for sure, sure.
That's a lot to digest.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
What's between the difference ATP, I think, or WTA?
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
That's just literally the men's and the women's.
That's it.
Yeah, the WTA is obviously thewomen's and, yeah, atp there's
been some talk for years.
They run completely independentof each other.
Now they still play the majorgrand slams at the same times.

(40:39):
There's a handful of othertournaments, uh, that they play
at the same time as well, butit's not.
It's not completely the same.
Like, okay, other than thegrand slams, and I said, a
handful of other tournaments,you know, the women could be
playing in madrid one week whilethe men are playing in atlanta
or whatever, and uh, but there'sbeen some talk of them like

(41:01):
merging to to be run by the sameorganization.
I don't know if that wouldnecessarily mean the same
schedule, because, speaking ofthose tournaments, something we
haven't mentioned yet is, uh,there's uh, four sets of four
levels of tournaments I'm sorrywhat four levels of tournaments.

(41:21):
Why?
For ranking, points and money.
So so, as you're probably aware, there's both of these have
rankings, right Of course.
So there's number one player inthe world, number two player in
the world, stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yep, yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
But it's not like college football, where it's
just people are voting on whothey think is the best.
There's an actual system of.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
I'm sure it's very complicated.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
I mean, without getting too specific, it's as
you would expect.
You know, you get to thechampionship, you get the most
points.
Of course, runner up a littleless, et cetera, but the four
different levels of tournamentsis where that varies.
So there's the majors, which isthe Grand Slams.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
You win the championship, it's worth 2,000
points.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Why this ridiculous number?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, when you hear the other ones, it kind of makes
sense.
So there's those ones.
This is the most important.
Keep in mind, like your runnerup, it's worth like 1300,
semifinals 780, et cetera.
So everything's to scaleroughly.
Then there's the 1000 eventsthey call, which, as you can
probably guess, you win 1000points for winning the

(42:37):
tournament.
And then there's the next tier,which is the 500 events, and
guess how many points you winfor.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
I'm going to go on a limb here, say 500.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Good guess you win.
Oh, my God look at me, I'm goodat tennis.
And then finally there's the250 events.
So basically you'll see thesetop players, the players that
are the top 10 in the world andstuff.
Everybody's playing every GrandSlam, if they're good enough to
make it, and almost everybody'splaying every one of the 1,000
events, which is like nine of.

(43:09):
But the 500s and the 250s.
The top players will not play250s unless they're just coming
back from injury and need time,they don't really care.
Right, They'll play some 500sand stuff.
But of course everybody needssome breaks too, because tennis
season goes from New Year's tothe beginning of November.
Why?

(43:29):
Why such a long?
Well, that's why I say you canplay your own schedule.
If you want to take a month off, you can take the month off.
Obviously, people are going totake some weeks off, here and
there at least.
But because the schedule is solong, you're going to need some
breaks at least.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Y'all just trying to complicate the bologna sandwich
up in here.
That's what I understand.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
And succeeding.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yep, yep, yep, okay, okay, okay, I mean, I get it and
they are okay.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
And yeah, to the point of the rankings yes,
please, obviously accumulate allthe points for rankings, and
it's Okay.
And to the point of therankings Obviously you
accumulate all the points forrankings and it's a rolling 52
week system, so it's not justlike it doesn't restart on
January 1st, it's just literallythe last, constantly the last
52 weeks.
So basically, all the pointspeople earn in the Australian

(44:28):
Open right now, they'll get it,but then they'll take away
everything they earned from lastyear's australian open.
If that makes sense, sure, gowith that all right, again
complicating things.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
I don't understand why they're.
You guys are trying tocomplicate things, that's uh
that you know what I mean.
Just I, I don't, I don't get it.
I don't get it you gotta haverankings.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
You know I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Otherwise, once it's all I'm with you on the rankings
.
I'm not disagreeing you there.
But sweet mother of all, babyjesus, you know how would you do
it.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Would you be like an ap style poll and just rank them
every week?

Speaker 1 (45:03):
yeah, rank them every week all thousand players on
each.
No man, I know I, I know, Iknow I'm messing with you.
I'm messing with you.
There has to be a rankingsystem.
It's just the 2,000 points andthen all that.
It's like you know, you couldjust make it less points and
still be effective when it comesto that, like you really could.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
You could.
But for example, in the GrandSlam obviously we won't have to
get into it.
But every tournament hasdifferent sizes.
You know, it's not always astandard 32 people in the field
or whatever, and for the mostpart the larger tournaments have
larger fields.
So these majors they have 128people field.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
So because why not?

Speaker 2 (45:44):
right.
So if you lose in the firstround, you only get in 10 points
.
So, as you can imagine, losingthe first round, you're only
getting 10 points.
So, as you can imagine, it's ahuge difference going all the
way to the championship.
So maybe 2,000 isn't the exactright number, but it needs to be
significantly better than just10.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Okay, I ask for this.
I just want you to know that.
You need to know that I askedfor this.
Yes, I appreciate you sayingthat, and I look like deer in
headlights right now if you guysare watching it on the YouTube
channel, because, my God, that'sso much there's so much.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
It is a lot, but, to be fair, we've also covered.
We just covered the rules ofthe match.
We also have covered somestyles of play.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, someseason-long rules.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Obviously Okay.
So let me ask you this you area fan.
You've actually been watchingit for quite a long time, I
guess over 20 years now.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah, about 20 years of watching it at least casually
, and probably 10 plus years ofwatching it pretty darn closely.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Because I'm sure right now there's some you know
you are itching to find outwhat's going on in the
Australian Open.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Normally I would say 100%, but the Australian Open is
a little more difficult becauseit's in Australia, so the time
zone difference is massive andbecause of the point of the
tournament we're at right now,we're down to the semifinals in
each one, so no matches evenstart until 3.30 am Eastern time
.
So there's no matches going onright now.

(47:23):
Nope.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
You know what I'm doing at 3.30 in the morning.
Not watching that.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
I will admit, depending on what the matches
are, there have been some timeswhen I'll set my alarm to get in
the middle of the night towatch those.
Shut up.
It's not the norm, but I'vedone it.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Good for you.
I mean, listen, you've got tobe in an immense amount of shape
in order to play tennis.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah, cause not only just the nature of the sport
itself, but it's 90% of the timeyou're in the brutal sun
demanding and you're doing itall by yourself and like we
discussed, you know it's it'snot often that the matches go
four or five hours, but it's notrare.
And it is often they go atleast two or five hours, but
it's not rare, and it is oftenthey go at least two or three
hours of all this.
And the coach cannot be therenext to you Right Now.

(48:16):
They have loosened up on somerules with that.
It used to be that coaches hadto be in the stands and that you
could do no coaching during thematch.
Then they relaxed it a littlebit where you can do coaching
during the match and thenliterally just this year they've
allowed it where the player orthe coach can be like obviously
not on the court or not in theright with the players, but

(48:39):
right Very, very close to where,in between points or at least
during the breaks, you couldeasily talk to them if you
wanted to.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
OK, but I've always wondered that, because I always
see that, like you know, they'reall all the way up in the
stands and they're like okay,you did all the coaching and all
the training, you're on yourown right and still, for the
most part, even with these newrules.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
First of all, some people are choosing not to be
right next to them.
So some of the players coachesstill are up in the stands, yeah
, but even the ones that aregetting closer, they're still
still far enough away that,while you're actually playing,
you're on your own.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
But yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
And, like I said, if you're a football player and
you're super tired, you can comeout for a play.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah, antennas, you can't tap.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
You got to play Exactly and, like I said, it's
your head, yeah, and tenants youcan't tap.
You got to play Exactly and,like I said, it's often in
extreme heat because even thistime of year when they're
playing, they're intentionallyplaying in Australia because
it's hot there right now.
That's why they're not playingin America right now.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
How do you think instant replay has changed the
game?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
So by the time I started watching it it was
already there.
Okay, so I can't really saybefore, but what I will say is
even that, not to add to someconfusion here.
But that is one thing that evenconfuses me, and the reason I
say that is when I first startedwatching it, they had it like a
lot of other sports where theyhad challenges.

(50:09):
So you got, I think it was, Ithink it was like three
challenges per set, but you know, if you got two of them right
or something, you could keepgoing until you missed another
one, something like that okaybut now most of the tournaments
have gone to uh uh like whereelectronic scoring, so to speak,

(50:30):
where the calls or whether inor out are made entirely
electronically, so they don'teven have like the, the player
or the the scores down the linecalling whether it's in and out.
It's all electronic whetherit's in or out, so they still
have the replays.
But but basically you can'tchallenge it because it's
already being called the sameway it would be called in a

(50:53):
challenge.
But the reason it confuses meis I don't think every
tournament does that Like.
Some are still a littledifferent.
I think some you can challengestill and some you can't, and
that's kind of been slowlychanging here and there.
So I'm not even entirely sureexactly where we're at with that
.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Okay, let me ask you this the person that's on the
chair, the middle of the court,the- umpire.
Yep, sure, let's call in anumpire.
Two-part question Okay, what isits purpose there?
And two, why do they alwayslook so pompous?

Speaker 2 (51:33):
well, the second part is probably because they can't
show favoritism, of course,either way, they look so pompous
every single time no they do,but, as you can imagine, not
only a matter of like said, notnot being able to pick sides,
but also having to have thepersonality to deal with the
players complaining and chewingthem out.

(51:53):
They'll just sit there and takeit, basically.
But for the first part of yourquestion, in reality, now that
we've gone to all the electronicsystems, they're useless Not
entirely, but less usefulbecause they're not making their
calls.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
They're only 25% effective for the game Not
entirely, but less usefulbecause they're not making those
calls.
They're only 25% effective forthe game.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Probably yeah, because basically for the most
part what they're doing is nowthere's some judgment calls to
be made, like, for example, justin a match last night.
The ball can only bounce,obviously, one time on the side
of the court and the person hasto hit it.
If it bounces a second time youlose the point.
But just last night there was acontroversy because the ball in

(52:37):
slow motion, it very clearlybounced a second time before the
player hit it but the umpiredidn't call it right away, so
the opposing player continuedplaying.
As soon as the rally ended, theopposing player went up to the
umpires like that was a doublebounce, but the rule was the
opposing player has to stopright away and challenge it,

(52:57):
basically.
And she didn't do that and itwasn't really even her fault
because it was just kind ofreaction.
But basically the umpire couldhave right off the bat, even
without the players complaining,the umpire themselves could
have stopped it and called it anet double bounce.
So some judgment calls like that.
There's also there'stechnically a serve clock.
That's almost never enforced,but you technically only have 25

(53:21):
seconds to serve.
Of course, and there areoccasionally people that will
abuse that, and not so much bytaking way longer, but by
consistently taking a coupleextra seconds.
So the umpire can give them awarning and if they continue to
do it, they can dock them apoint.
And they can also dock thempoints for uh, you know,

(53:45):
unsportsmanlike stuff, thingslike that.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
So that's messed up.
You.
You've got to dock a point andthen you've got to replay more.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
That's wrong man, it wouldn't be replaying, though
how that works.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
No, not replay.
You've got to keep playing.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
For example, let's say it would never happen on the
first point of the match, butlet's say it happened on the
first point of the match orbefore we even ever started.
If I did something terrible,the umpire would give me a
warning first, but if we stilldidn't play and I did something
again, then even without playing, he would give you a point.
So we haven't even played yetand you're winning 15 love.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Man get out of here.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
If I do it a third time, it's a game, not just a
point.
It's a game.
Next time set finally, you canbe just disqualified.
They serve some purpose.
Plus, the crowd gets loud inbetween points cheering.
Sometimes they go too far.

(54:40):
The umpire has to ask them tobe quiet, things like that.
Again pompous I don't disagree,but but they did I mean you're
not wrong, but they're there andagain they serve more of a
purpose back in the day.
Of course it's I'm sure it'syeah, kind of like baseball.
You know, we get to, we'reprobably gonna get to a point

(55:02):
where we don't need the umpiresthere.
But even if we get to theelectronic calling, the umpire
will probably still physicallybe there, right, yeah, so it's
kind of like that, even though90% of the calls being made we
don't need the umpire for, butthere's a few that we do and
will most likely, I would think,keep the umpire there
physically regardless.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
It's not bad.
I mean I got it for the mostpart.
It's going to take me a while.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
It's not like I.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
I mean I got it for the most part.
It's going to take me a while.
It's not like I'm going to besitting here.
I'm going to be like, ooh, didyou guys watch Australia?
No, but I'm not going to dothat.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
You're going to be setting your alarm at 3.30 am
for those matches.
The hell I am I already?

Speaker 1 (55:38):
woke up early enough, bro, I don't need to be waking
up even earlier.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
I'm up too early.
Unless it's to get up and watchtennis, it's too early yeah, my
wife says the same thing.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
You know.
She actually says like you'repsychotic.
I'm like thanks, babe, I loveyou too, right?
She says I love, I'm sure yeah,I'm sure she says that I don't
love.
Yeah, let's go with that.
So this has been veryilluminating yes one more
questions for you, all right,all right, um, because obviously
this is.
You know, this is what we donow Learn new sports.

(56:11):
We got to be open to this.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Exactly Plus.
Now you can classify this as aneducational podcast.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Oh Right, well, yes, you're right, look at you.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Not just a hat rack up here, no, just a hat rack.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Where's that one?
Is that from Winston-Salem?

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Winston-Salem flight.
Yeah, I just got it in the mailyesterday.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
You bought that one from National Hat Day.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
Ironically, I bought a couple hats around that time,
but none of them were actuallyon National Hat Day, oh, you
gotta be kidding me.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
You went around there , you bought another 14, went
around, get, won another 14, 15,went straight to the 16th.
But I'm gonna call it mynational hat day hat, so let's
go with.
That sounds good.
All right, all right, okay.
So, um, let me see here.
Um, let's take a look here.
I'm looking at this.
Uh, these questions that I havehere.

(57:08):
We talked about the rankings,we talked about the Grand Slam.
In your opinion and again, thisis your own biased opinion,
okay, this is your opinion.
Okay, who is the greatesttennis player of all time?

Speaker 2 (57:25):
I will say Roger Federer.
Now, there is controversy aboutthat, of course, because why is
that?
Because, similar to other sports, it's like like you know what
do you go off of?
And if you want to strictly gooff 100 just by the numbers,
then novak djokovic beats him inin a lot of the stuff just by
the numbers, yeah, but there'sso.

(57:46):
That's why I said a lot ofpeople will say djokovic just
because numbers, he's got morenumbers, and that's hard to
argue, especially since theywere similar eras, but their
eras did slightly differ.
For the most part, djokovic gota lot, not all of them, but a
lot of his extra numbers in aweaker era.

(58:09):
And then you can say thingslike even head-to-head, djokovic
beat Federer more, uh,head-to-head, which is true, but
again, uh, a lot of theirmatches were when Federer was a
little past his prime, playingDjokovic while he was in his
prime and it was still prettyclose to 50, 50, things like
that.
Um, the the third person thatgets mentioned a lot is

(58:32):
obviously rafael nadal, whosenumbers are also very similar.
He just retired, didn't he?
he just did, yeah, a couplemonths ago rafa yeah, but to me,
while he's still a legend andone of the best players of all
time, I think amongst thosethree he's pretty easily the the
number three.
Yeah, and to me, the mainreason why is he was so flipping

(58:57):
good on clay like nobody couldbeat him okay period on clay,
but everywhere else, still verygood, just not as dominant,
correct.
So his numbers are a littleskewed just because he could not
be beat on clay, whereasjokovic and federer absolute top
notch everywhere.
Basically, um, but just tothrow in one, uh, one, one name

(59:20):
that isn't in these more modernera is bjorn borg.
Now, most people probablywouldn't call him the best from
the previous era, but but hisnumbers are close to the best
anyway, and he played in thetime like, I think like 60s, 70s
, yeah, when traveling was notas easily.

(59:40):
So, like a lot of these grandslams, he just willingly did not
choose to play because hedidn't want to travel to
wherever.
So of course he didn't win asmany tournaments and stuff
because of that.
But so I'm gonna throw his nameout just to get a plug for his
name.
What about women's?
Women's?
I think there's obviously somesimilar arguments that can be

(01:00:01):
made for different things, but Ithink that's a lot clearer that
Serena, serena Williams, is thegreatest of all time.
She she was dominant, yeah,dominant for so long long, yeah,
even she's got the numbers,she's got the, the name, so to
speak, of just everybody knowshow dominant excuse me she was.
And, like I said, she playeduntil she was about 40 and even

(01:00:24):
though it's more common thesedays for these players to play
longer but even these, most ofthe women, will be retired by
30-ish, and she only playeduntil 40, but was still winning
Grand Slams until about 35, 36.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Okay, all right.
Okay, I appreciate you teachingme.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
Anytime, and this is now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
I am going to go into my podcast Aseksha, and I am
going to put educational I likeit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
I'm glad I could help .

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Simply because you taught me something.
And then the next person thatI'm going to bring in, they're
going to teach me about theirsport, and then we're going to
keep going, and this is how thisis going to happen from now on.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like I said, I don't get achance to talk about tennis much
, so I'll take every opportunityI can.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
I want you to know that we did talk a little bit
about tennis on the Dead HatChronicle Sports Show.
By the way, every Tuesday andThursday it's 9 pm Eastern time
on YouTube.
All good stuff.
All good stuff, right.
We said, hey, the Australian isgoing on right now, just want
you guys to know.
And then that was it.
That's more than I would haveexpected.
You would have expected, right?

(01:01:36):
So there you go.
I just want you to know that Idid talk about it.
I gave you a shout, but sinceyou don't watch anymore because
you're too good for us, I'm justsaying it's past my bedtime.
Oh, get out of here's.
It's 8 30, right, 9 30 and youstill up with me I don't mean
right now, it's past my bedtime.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
I mean when I don't watch shows.
Sometimes that's because it'spast my bedtime man get out of
here you're so full of it Idon't want to hear it I would
say I get up early, which istrue, but after you just telling
me what time you get up, I'mnot going to use that as an
excuse.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeah, I get up at 4.45 at the gym by 5.15.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Good for you, Good for you.
You know I got to do somethingbecause I eat like a dad.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
See, I do that I just don't do the gym.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
So all right.
Anything you want to plug rightnow, my friend, this is your
chance.
Like you know, your socialpodcast, anything I appreciate
you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
I got a the up to chat podcast.
Uh, it's kind of in a spotright now where I don't do it on
a regular basis.
I just kind of do it here andthere right now, but it's.
It's about all sports andstuff's just kind of been on
what's in season, tennisincluded, and then for social
media, then I'm atP-U-K-32-L-ers on most of them,

(01:02:58):
so you can follow me there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Okay, and then this is all socials or it's strictly
like Instagram.
That's Instagram, and Twitter.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Yeah, those are other than Facebook.
Those are the only two I gotright now.
Actually, I have a Threads,which is the same thing, so I'm
just not very active on thereyet.
I'm usually a little behind ongetting to the new social media,
so I usually almost alwayseventually get there.
I'm just way after everybodyelse gets there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
I just want you to know that I am following you on
Threads and you're not followingme.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
No, I'm following you on there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:33):
Am I not.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
No, well, hold that, I say it because it's not
following me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
It says right there, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
I will say Michael AB Sellers.
That's me, that's me, that'syou, I will say I'm not very
active.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Like I said, I'm not very active.
Like I said, I'm not veryactive on there.
I know you have not postedanything.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:57):
I appreciate that you put right there in Spanish Okay
, all right, I got you.
La familia es todo, pero elbéisbol también es bueno.
Okay, all right, bro, I got youhomie.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Is that not awesome, or?

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
homie, I was pretty good.
I'll give you that man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
I got that when I was watching Breaking Bad and one
of the scenes Hector said lafamilia es todo.
I love that, but then I neededto add a little more truth to it
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
I like it.
Guys.
Make sure you guys arefollowing mike sellers on the
socials, uh twitter, uhinstagram and then also make
sure he's on threads.
He hasn't posted anything, buthe's on threads.
Okay, just make sure you givehim a follow.
He has 53 followings at this atthe time of this recording, so
let's get those numbers up, uh.
And also make sure you guys uhcheck out his podcast, the up to

(01:04:47):
Chat podcast, wherever that youlisten to your podcast.
Okay, mike, I'm serious.
Thank you so much for teachingme about tennis.
You also taught me that I canchange my podcast now to
educational, so I might just getmore listeners because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
You're welcome.
I'm glad I could help and I'mglad I had this opportunity to
talk about tennis.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
There you go.
And then, as far as the datachronicles, um, I am a lot more
active right now on blue sky, onthreads and instagram, as well
as youtube.
Uh, just look up uh datachronicles podcast.
Make sure you guys subscribe.
I do post a podcast there aswell.
I do some uh, some, uh, acouple of videos here and there,

(01:05:30):
so make sure you guys arefollowing as well.
We will see you guys in thenext episode.
What sport are we going to talkabout?
I don't know, we'll see, butI'm gonna get, I'm someone's
gonna teach me about their sportand I appreciate that.
Thanks, guys, thank you, thankyou.