Retention Is Existential: Gainsight’s New CEO Chuck Ganapathi on RaaS, AI Agents & the 80/20 Trap | Episode 100 - The Digital CX Podcast: Driving digital customer success and outcomes in the age of A.I.

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
We have now in an in a new environment where
retention is existential, whereevery dollar matters, and if
every dollar matters, everycustomer matters.

SPEAKER_01 (00:22):
Once again, welcome to the Digital Customer
Experience Podcast with me, AlexTurkovich.
So glad you could join us heretoday and every week as we
explore how digital can helpenhance the customer and
employee experience.
My goal is to share what myguests and I have learned over
the years so that you can getthe insights that you need to
evolve your own digitalprograms.

(00:42):
If you'd like more info, need toget in touch, or sign up for the
weekly companion newsletter thathas additional articles and
resources in it, go todigitalcustomer success.com for
now.
Let's get started.
Hello, and welcome to theDigital CX Podcast.
My name is Alex Turkovich.
I'm so glad to have you backthis week and every week as we
talk about all things digital inCX.

(01:03):
Folks, this is episode 100, uh,which is uh a cool milestone,
right?
100, nice round number.
Um, and it's taken us a bit toget there.
We were publishing weekly for awhile there and um been a little
bit more sporadic over the lastfew months, but we're getting
back into that regularpublishing schedule.

(01:23):
And if you've listened to thepodcast for a long time, you
know that um Gainsight and theDigital CX podcast have had a
very close relationship.
I've had, I think, fivedifferent people from Gainsight
on and you know throughout thehistory of uh this podcast, and
that you know, trend continuesas we are pleased to feature a

(01:46):
conversation with Chuck, whojust took over as CEO uh of
GainSight in the last fewmonths, really.
Um he's been with Gainsight fora little over a year, maybe a
year and a half.
Um, so uh this conversation ispretty phenomenal because Chuck
has a has a great backgroundwhen it comes to not only
entrepreneurship and CS, butalso artificial intelligence,

(02:08):
and he's bringing all of thatinto the fold at GainSight.
And so we have a coolconversation about um, you know,
pretty free form about not justgain site, but also artificial
intelligence and current stateand what's happening and where
we see things going and thosekinds of things.
So uh this one's slightlylonger, but I couldn't cut Chuck
short because he has so manygreat things to say.

(02:30):
And I hope you enjoyed this100th episode of the Digital CX
Podcast.
Enjoy.
Chuck, I'd like to welcome youto the Digital CX Podcast.
It's so great having you.

SPEAKER_00 (02:40):
Great to be here, Alex.

SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Yeah, it's um, you know, I I think um it's so cool
because if you look back at likethe um the episodes in this
podcast, there's been a lot offolks from GainSight throughout
the couple of years that thepodcast's been on.
And so, in a way, like I've beenable to track the evolution of

(03:03):
GainSight a little bit.
And um obviously you um I thinkyou're you were brought in
probably a year or two ago,something like that.
And yeah, recently a year and ahalf ago, and have recently been
named CEO.
So congratulations on that.
That's thank you fantastic.
Um, that's really good stuff.
But what I'd love to do kind offirst and foremost, and what I

(03:25):
what I do with um most of myguests is that kind of dive into
your background a little bit andwhat your journey that led you
into where you are today.
But my first question to you islike basic, what was your first
paying gig ever?
Like what when what when's yourwhere does your first paycheck
come from?

SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
Oh, my first paycheck actually was in the
year 1995.
Yeah, I was a grad student at uhPurdue, yeah, studying
industrial engineering, and myfirst job was to grade
undergraduate papers.

SPEAKER_01 (04:00):
Cool.

SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
That was my first paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
That was your first gig.
Yeah, that's really cool.
Yeah, I mean, uh, I think yeah,I remember um I worked for the
university.
Uh so you have a little bit of adifferent educational background
than I do.
You you have like Stanford andPurdue on your resume.
I went to music school.

SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
So you had so much more fun.
You did the right thing, Alex.
What was I thinking?

unknown (04:24):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
I wish somebody, I wish somebody had g advised me
better.
I had no one better, no one noone to tell me any better.

SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Oh, I mean, I spent more than$100,000 on a degree
I'm not using, so there's thattoo.
You know.
Hey, you live and learn, right?
You live and learn.
That's right.
But um say I mean, um, you know,I know uh a lot of people in the
CS community kind of really uhknow about you now because of of
gain sight, obviously.

(04:52):
But you know, what they probablydon't know is some of the rich
history that you have.
I mean, you spent a considerableamount of time at Salesforce and
you built amazing things atSalesforce.
You've also been a founder andCEO, so you have the
entrepreneurial thing happening.
Walk us a little bit through umyour journey, your uh 10 cent
tour of your journey, so tospeak.

SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
Yeah, so I it's interesting.
I uh I actually started mycareer after, you know.
You know, I we talked about myfirst job at Purdue as a grader.
After I graduated, I went towork for a company called Ernst
Young doing main consulting.
And back in those days, this is95 to 97, they were still using

(05:33):
mainframes, if you can believeit.
So large telcos that were usingmainframes to manage their
customer relationships, callcenters, things of that nature.
That's kind of where I got my uhmy start.
And a couple of years later, Imoved out west to go to business
school and then joined thiscompany called Siebel back in
the day in 1999, uh, as aproduct manager, building some

(05:58):
of their some of their um CRMproducts.
You know, yeah.
A lot of people don't know this,even though Salesforce has the
uh the the stock ticker CRM,they didn't invent the term CRM.
It was invented by Tom Siebelback in the SIBO days.
And so, yeah, so I worked there,and so I kind of saw that shift

(06:20):
from working on mainframes toclient service software, which
was pretty amazing.
And I was part of that growthfor six years, and then um uh I
left Siebel, took some time off,and then I joined Salesforce.
A lot of the early SIBL peopleended up going to Salesforce.
And one of them, my my um mygood friend Brett Queener, uh,

(06:45):
who I ended up working for uheventually, and then another
good friend of mine, KendallCollins, who's now back at
Salesforce, uh, they brought meinto Salesforce from Sebl.
Yeah and I spent a good fiveyears there.
And and the the interestingthing were there, I saw the
shift from client server to thecloud.

SPEAKER_02 (07:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
So kind of already saw two shifts in my career from
from the mainframe platform tothe client server platform to
the cloud platform.
After spending a lot of time atuh uh Salesforce building
products, I'm sure you you'veused, uh you know and love,
maybe know and hate, uh, likeSales Cloud, I am sure you've

(07:27):
heard of.
Uh you may have heard of aproduct called Chatter, which
was a precursor to Slack.

SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
For sure.

SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
Uh those are the products uh that I was fortunate
enough to work on.

SPEAKER_02 (07:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:37):
And after about five years there, I decided I had to
scratch my entrepreneurial itchto start a company.
So I started a company in, andit's called Tech.ai, it's in the
mobile and AI space.

SPEAKER_02 (07:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
And did that.
It's a VC back company, justlike just like you, did all the
fundraise for Series A, SeriesV, Series C, Series D.
And then eventually sold thecompany 2023 and a joint gain
site.
So there again, you sort of seethe shift.
My career has been this story ofplatform shifts and following
these platform shifts andlearning and trying to

(08:13):
understand sort of how to takewhat you learned before and
apply it to this new worldthat's changing, where the
technology model is different,the business model is different,
the go-to-market model isdifferent.
And just sort of being throughthat shift from all the way from
mainframe to client server tothe cloud to AI, now with
GainSight, and my own companyand the now with GainSight and

(08:34):
all the AI work we're doing hasbeen fascinating.
And so that's sort of a littlebit about my history and why I'm
so excited about the time thatwe have here at GainSite.
The other interesting thing, theparallel in parallel track to
this, if you run the GainSitehistory, it's also interesting.
So if you think about SIBL, wedidn't have there's no concept

(08:54):
of churn, right?
Like people don't realize that.
We people used to buy softwarein CDs where they would pay you
money.
Sure.
You know, and it's typicallyanywhere between$2,000 to$3,000
per user, was the price of SIBL.
And it's a perpetual license.
You get to use it for life.
How lucky, right?
And we shipped you a box of CDs,50 CDs, where you installed

(09:16):
those CDs into a server andinstalled one of those CDs into
your laptop, and now you haveSIBL client servers.
And so there's no concept ofchurn, there's no concept of
recurring revenue.
So you don't have to think aboutthose things.
But when I went to Salesforce,the company had gone public.
I joined Salesforce in 2006 whenwe were probably 800 to 900

(09:39):
people.
So still a small company.
And the company had gone publicabout a year and a half before I
joined, and they were juststarting to understand the
impact of churn.
They had a lot of churn in themid-market segment and SB
segment, they had a huge SMBsegment back then.
Uh, and and the churn wasincredible.
And Wall Street started tonotice.

(10:00):
So internally, they decided, youknow what, this churn's a
problem.
What are we going to do?
So they took a few people fromsales, from account management,
a couple of folks from support,you know, they took all the
misfits, if you will, uh, thatwere really like wonderful
people, highly skilled, butreally customer-obsessed people,
and said, we're going to put ateam together and y'all need to

(10:22):
figure out how to reduce churn.
And they were like, okay, whatdo we call you people?
There's no name for this.
Well, back in those days,Salesforce's mantra and like the
whole tagline and the and theethos of the company was all
about success, not software.

SPEAKER_01 (10:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
Because SIBL was software, and Salesforce was
peddling success, right?
That's what the cloud model, theSaaS model is all about
delivering success, not justgiving you a CD with software on
it.
So they said, you know what?
We're just going to call youcustomer success managers
because you're not customersupport, you're not account
management, you're not sales.
What are you?

(10:59):
Your customer success.

SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (11:01):
It was a completely made-up title.
There was nobody by that titleever.

SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Little did they know.

SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
Little did they know.
And so then that sort of becamea thing.
And Gainsight and Nick made it athing.
Uh Nick Meadow, who I'm sure whoyou know, who uh was the founder
of Gainsight, who I like to callthe godfather.
He hates it when I call himthis.
I call him the godfather of CS,and he just hates it.

(11:27):
Um, but I like to I like totease him anyway.

SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
But you know what he did was he really took this
concept.
But interesting story, by theway, is when Nick started his
company, I was starting mycompany, but I was his main
conduit relationship toSalesforce, the Salesforce
mafia, as you call it.
Yeah, yeah.
So I introduced him to all theSalesforce people, Maria
Martinez, John DeRoscher, KevinSherman, like all of these early

(11:51):
game Salesforce uh CS people,customer success people.

SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
Sure.

SPEAKER_00 (11:55):
Uh he didn't know, and I introduced him during
those times.
And I didn't even realize thatuntil like now when I joined
GainSight Research.
That's amazing.
It's like, oh, okay, that'sprobably what it is.
So yeah, so you know that that Igot to see the early days of
customer success.
Yeah.
And I got to witness Nick takethat fledgling idea and turn it
into a movement.

SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
That's so cool.
Yeah, we I used to I worked fora Salesforce consulting firm for
a little bit, and we alwayscalled Salesforce the
mothership, which I I I thoughtwas also like a a very uh that's
a cool term for it.

SPEAKER_00 (12:28):
But um Well so many of us got our stuff, so many of
us owe our careers to mark atSalesforce.

SPEAKER_01 (12:33):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And it's also um I I was I wasvery aware that the ties were
strong um between you know earlyGainSight and Salesforce.
Because it it if I remembercorrectly, even the first
version or two of GainSight wasbuilt on top of Salesforce, if
I'm not, if I'm not mistaken.
And so that DNA must have um Imean, let me ask you, have you

(12:59):
have you found that that kind ofDNA has transitioned over and
carried on through GainSight?
And is that something that hashelped you in your first couple
of years there?

SPEAKER_00 (13:09):
Absolutely.
I think Salesforce was theplatform GainSight was built on.
You know, originally the companywas called Jbarra.
Yeah, and they had built an AppExchange app on Salesforce, and
Nick and the team re-christenedit as uh GainSight and really
started their journey down thiscategory creation path of

(13:32):
turning customer successplatform into a thing, into a
category and of itself, not justan adjunct to CRM, but something
that's different from CRM.
And the inspiration for theproduct, for the profession, so
much of it came from Salesforce.
So if you talk to Nick, um,which I which I do even now, I

(13:53):
we he and I text almost everyother day.
Sure.
Um, you know, he the the theinspiration for the business,
the the the idea of customersuccess, the focus that churn is
a problem, retention is a metricthat investors care about, and
the way to secure retention,improve your improve gr these

(14:19):
ideas, so much of Nick's earlythinking and the early gain side
thinking was influenced bypeople like Maria.
Yeah, you know, sales Nick andthe team wrote the book
literally on customer success.
You know, we've written likefive books.
The first book Nick wrote, Idon't know if you remember this,
Alex.
The first book that he wrote,the foreword for the book was

(14:39):
written by Maria Martinez.

SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Oh, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Who was the president of the what they call
the customers of Customers forLife organization at Salesforce.
And so she was very influentialin the thinking around GainSight
and sort of this, how this wholeindustry evolved.
You still see some parts ofthat, you know.
Today we even if today we have avery strong integration with

(15:02):
Salesforce, we look atSalesforce as uh Salesforce and
GainSight as a perfectcombination where we pick up
where Salesforce ends and youknow truly drive customer
success.
And of course, we deeplyintegrate into Salesforce.
Almost 90% of our customers bycount uh are Salesforce

(15:24):
customers.

SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
Almost all of them integrate GainSight into
Salesforce.
Because at the end of the day,if you think about what the
system of record is, it's stillSalesforce.
GainSight is not a system ofrecord.
We never aspire to be.
We're a system of insights,we're a system of workflow, and
we're a system of action.
But this underlying system ofrecord is still Salesforce or

(15:46):
HubSpot or ServiceNow or allthese other systems where data,
customer data is stored, uh,data lakes, for instance.
But that idea that Salesforce isa very important part of our
existence, of our journey, ofthis industry is undeniable.

SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Yeah, that's so true.
I remember, I mean, very, veryclearly having spent a few years
as a uh you know, deeplyembedded in Gainsight as a user
and an admin is like, you know,that that Salesforce um
integration is is like rocksolid and really a uh a
foundation upon which to build.
And and that, you know, um, Iyou know, we don't need to get

(16:25):
too deep into the weeds here,but um, you know, spent many,
many of our um mappingSalesforce, you know, fields to
gain site fields and making surethat the sinks were working
correctly and we weren't youknow creating undue stress for
any other team.

SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
So um and you know from that from that experience
it's not just a technologyproblem, right?
So much of it has to do with theshape of your data, how clean it
is, and that can mess up yourdata integration and the
mappings and the syncs, and it'sa hard integration is uh is a
hard problem.
And it's you know, for us, it'seven harder now because we while

(17:03):
it's true that Salesforcemajority of our customers are on
Salesforce, yeah, we have somevery, very important customers
now in recent years that arethat are um you know not on the
Salesforce platform.
So one, for example, is SAP.
Yeah, so SAP became a customerof ours last year.

SPEAKER_02 (17:25):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
And they have tens of thousands of users on
Gainsight across the across theglobe, both in customer success
and in sales, by the way.
Their sales team uses Gainsighttoo.

SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
And we have a very deep integration into SAP Sales
Cloud, which is their version ofCRM.
They call it SAP CX.
It's a great product, it'scompletely revamped, they built
it from the ground up, and weintegrate deeply to it.
We also have another customer inLinkedIn.
And guess who owns LinkedIn?
Microsoft.

SPEAKER_02 (17:54):
Yep.

SPEAKER_00 (17:54):
So LinkedIn is actually moving from Salesforce
to Microsoft Dynamics.
Oh, so as a part of ourpartnership, we have built a
very deep integration toDynamics and we're continuing to
build it.
So now if you think about it, weactually have three different
CRM systems that we supportequally well.
Salesforce, SAP CRM, or it'scalled SAP CX, and Microsoft

(18:17):
Dynamics.
Now, of course, they're indifferent stages of evolution.
Salesforce, obviously, we'vedone since for the last 14
years.
So it's a little bit moreadvanced.
We're continuing to invest in itbecause Salesforce keeps
innovating, right?
They keep, they have to agentforce, there's data cloud,
there's Slack.
So we keep deepening ourintegration.
Every time they releasesomething new at Dreamforce or

(18:38):
one of their releases, we wantto make sure that we're on top
of that.
So it's it's that it's one ofthose things that's like a
never-ending you're never donewith innovation.

SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
You're never done.
Yeah, you're never done.
And you know, the everythingevolves over time, and and part
of the part of the challengewith having integrations or you
know, complex data sets andthings like that is that
integrations change, datachanges, strategies change, and
you gotta, you know, do yourbest to keep up with that.
I I know I know that one thingthat um you know you have been

(19:06):
spending a fair amount of timeon is um this this notion of uh
retention as a service.
And so I was hoping that wecould spend a little bit of time
on that because I think um mostlisteners of the podcast, that
may be a brand new term um forthem.
And and I thought it wasincredibly interesting the first

(19:28):
time I heard you speak about itand I heard about it and and
kind of dug deeper into theconcept a little bit.
Because I think it's it's it'sone of your pretty strong
pillars that you're driving atat Gainsight, if I'm not

(20:33):
mistaken.
So I'd I'd love to hear it fromyour mouth uh directly, just
around retention as a serviceand what that's all about.

SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
Yeah.
So software as a service hasbeen the sort of an amazing
journey for all of us over thelast 15, 20 years, right?
Starting with Salesforce andthen kind of the whole
revolution that happened and andyou know grew tremendously
during the COVID days.

(21:04):
And I think as we think aboutthe way we have approached
retention, the idea of retentionand grr, yeah, is that we say,
okay, let's take our topcustomers and throw our best

(21:24):
people at them.
And we give them technology, wegive them playbooks, we give
them, you know, all of thesethese techniques uh and and and
best practices on how to managethat relationship, drive
success, drive value, drive theoutcome, and get them to be a
happy customer, getting value,getting outcomes.

(21:46):
So therefore they renew.
So the outcome of retention,it's it's an outcome, right?
It comes all the work that CSMsdo leads to the outcome of
retention.
Obviously, other things affectit like executive change and
product and so on and so forth.
But the fundamental idea of thisindustry, our profession, is

(22:08):
that you take great people andyou throw them on the top 20% of
our customers and thinking, youknow what, top 20% covers 60,
70, 80 percent.
But you know, I I tend to thinkthat uh the the doing I call it
the 80-20 trap, right?
The typical Pareto curve is oh,you do you you take care of

(22:31):
80-20% of your customers thatthat contribute to a significant
part of your revenue and life isgood.
We can we can manage our return.
And I think that may have beenokay in a world when the market
was massively expanding.

SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
SaaS has been in an expansion phase for the last 15
years all the way through 2022.
And when it's expanding,expansion and new logos can hide
a lot of the churn problem.
Right?
And so this idea that somehowyou can just serve your 80-20,

(23:08):
you know, your 20% of yourcustomers and get away with it,
I think is going to bechallenged in this new world.

SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
And the things that have changed, there are two
things that have changed.
Number one, this whole industry,our whole like SaaS selling SaaS
applications hit a wall in 2022when ZERP ended, right?
Zero interest rate period, whichwe all benefited from, like the
low mortgages that we allrefinanced, the you know, uh uh
uh uh unbelievable growth thatwe all had in ARR, you saw the

(23:39):
hockey stick AR growth that SaaScompanies had during the COVID
days.
A lot of it was fueled by ZERP,zero interest rate.
And when zero and when inflationhit and zero interest rate
period ended, it sort of meantlike that whole machine hit a
wall.
And when you hit a wall, then alot of your churn problems start

(23:59):
to become very apparent.
So that's one thing thathappened.
The second thing that happenedis that with the introduction of
agentic AI, especially agenticcoding, what we may call
bycoding or agentic coding usingcursor or windsurf if you're a
developer or using somethinglike Lovable or Bolt if you're a

(24:20):
non-developer, anybody can nowbuild software.
Right.
Right?
That means the or it could evenbe your internal IT team that
could build software.
Sure.
So the moat that we all thoughtwe had, you know, as software
entrepreneurs, software productpeople, and and and uh you know,
uh VC backed companies that werebuilding SaaS applications, we

(24:44):
don't have that moat anymore.
Because the bar has been loweredso much.

SPEAKER_01 (24:48):
Somebody recently gave me the perfect analogy for
this.
They were talking about thisexact thing, how you know the
all of these agentic systemsthat are now allowing you to
kind of code quote unquote codeor create apps or things like
that.
Uh you know, if you've everwatched those videos of surfers

(25:08):
at the beach who there's somekind of tributary that's blocked
by sand on the beach, and theydig like a tiny little canal
that then starts the waterflowing, and slowly over the
next you know, the the thecoming minutes and hours, that
trickle becomes larger andlarger as the water erodes the
sand out into the thing.

(25:28):
I kind of feel like that'sthat's that's a similar thing
that we're experiencing, I thinknow when you bring up this mo
this this moat that's slowlybeing eroded, because I feel
like we're in this place wherein the not so distant future, I
mean today, look, if you if ifyou throw lovable at somebody,
they'll be able to makesomething really cool.

(25:50):
But it's still kind of like atoy, it's still kind of hokey,
it's still not highly complex orhighly integrated into something
unless you are a softwareengineer and understand back-end
systems and databases inrelation to blah blah blah blah
blah.
But but I don't think that worldis too far off, right?
Um, so I and I think that's justfascinating to you know bear

(26:14):
witness to.
So I I I didn't want tointerrupt your flow, but I I
thought that was really just anamazing time.

SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
I love that analogy, and I completely agree with you
that is a fascinating timebecause I'm look, I'm I uh I'm a
product person.
I grew up in product developmentmost of my career.
And it's uh it's I've never seenanything like this, right?
Where it's you know, we used towe used to say, I'm sure you've
heard this term, right?

(26:41):
Like Google would only hire the10x engineer, right?
Yeah, everybody else got theregular engineer.
Somehow Google was able to hirethe 10x engineer.
Well, guess what?
If you start using, you know,cursor or wins, uh, windsurf or
codex or CLI, you know, like uhanthropic, you know, Sonnet 4.5,

(27:06):
whatever your favorite model,your whatever your favorite
tool, yeah.
Now suddenly every engineer canbe a 10x engineer.

SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Right?
So it's not just you know peoplevibe coding on Lovable and Bolt.
Think about the company, the YCombinator startup, right?
That can build what your productdoes in probably a tenth of the
time that you that you wereable, that all the time and
money you had to spend.
One part of it is like ourcustomers re-evaluating the

(27:35):
build versus buy back?

SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
That's one part.
The other part is on thecompetitive side, you're gonna
have agentic competitors thatcome out of the woodwork and
they're able to build so much ofyour features because they're
every one of their engineers cannow code with AI as their
co-pilot, and now they're ableto develop features at a pace
that your legacy code can nevermove.

(28:00):
Right?
It's not that your engineerscan't move.
Like people think that, oh, youknow, the YC people, they're AI
native engineers, so they canbuild much faster.
Guess what?
We have a great engineeringteam.
They're all using all the toolsthe YC people are using.
Okay.
But here's the advantage the YCpeople have.
We have a code base that's youknow, a decade old.

(28:22):
Sure.
Parts of it are new, but partsof it are 10 years old.

SPEAKER_01 (28:25):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (28:26):
Those people, those engineers have nothing.
They're starting from scratch.
So therefore, it's much fasterfor agentic coding to build new
features than try to do agenticcoding on an existing customer,
customer, excuse me, existingcode base that you now have to
enhance.
It's much harder to do.
So, therefore, we have it, wehave, we, even though we have

(28:48):
engineer who are engineers whoare amazing and we have the will
and the and the desire to useagentic coding to make us go
faster, yeah.
I think the legacy vendors orthe incumbents, I shouldn't say
legacy, the incumbent vendorshave a disadvantage because your
success, which is you have anexisting code base that's been

(29:08):
around for a few years, actuallyslows you down because agentic
coding doesn't work that wellwhen it comes to uh existing
code bases.

SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
Yeah, so so I think this this idea of retention as a
service comes from thatbackground, just so you know.

SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
So software as a service was great.
We have now in an in a newenvironment where retention is
existential, where every dollarmatters.
And if every dollar matters,every customer matters.
And if every customer matters,then this 80-20 trap of like,
oh, let's just take care of 80%of our customers, throw great
humans at that, at that group,at that cohort of customers,

(29:45):
forget the rest, ignore therest, we'll send them some mass
emails and they'll be fine.
We'll throw them in the in thedigital bucket and they'll be
fine.

SPEAKER_01 (29:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (29:52):
That's not gonna work anymore.

SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
No.

SPEAKER_00 (29:54):
Like you have to treat every customer like your
best customer.
Your digital experience, which Iknow you're very passionate
about, has to be as good, asclose to being as good as your
human experience.
That I think is challenging.
To me, that's what I that's whatwe call retention as a service.

SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
I love this.
Okay.
So and I think there's an extralayer to this too, right?
Because um, look, 10, 20 yearsago, if you were focused solely
on your top 20% of your customerbase because they were highest
and highest revenue customers,and you kind of ignored the
others, that was a perfectlyreasonable way of operating and

(30:32):
made sense to everybody becausethere wasn't this kind of
proliferation of voices andopinions uh in things like
social media and LinkedIn andeven things like um I don't
know, I feel like I feel likejust business worlds through
through digital communities andgroups and things like that have

(30:57):
gotten so much tighter that ifyou as a company have a strategy
of ostracizing.
Your bottom 80% of your customerbase, that stuff's gonna get
around.
You know, it's it's it's goingto be a thing.
And so, in a way, that retentionstrategy of covering your entire

(31:17):
customer base you know, isn'tsolely a retention strategy,
too.
It's also you, I mean, you couldkind of tie that into a
marketing strategy as well,because you know, yeah, our our
communities are so tight-knitthese days.
Everybody talks with each other,everybody's in the same, you
know, especially in my world,which is vertical SaaS, where we

(31:39):
you know, we serve one industryand everybody in that industry
talks to each other on a regularbasis.
Um word gets around, you know,and so it I think that's become
hypercritical these days, too.

SPEAKER_00 (31:53):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's funny, uh, yousaid um uh it's a it's a
marketing strategy.
I'd go one step further and sayit's a growth strategy.

SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Because you know, your SMB customers of today
might be your enterprisecustomers of tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
Completely agree.

SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
There, you know, we've had we have some
customers, um large ones thatthat I I I won't name their
names, but their long tail, weasked them about the long tail,
and then they were like, look,our long tail is only 15% of our
of our revenue.
Okay, this is a company that hasa very large enterprise

(32:34):
business.
So 15-20% is their is their longtail revenue.
But you know what they said?
They said, look, the reason it'simportant is not just because of
that 15-20%, which is still areasonable, uh, that's a nice
big chunk.
And that that churns a lot, bythe way, right?
The the the the long tailtypically churns a lot.
So you do the math, you go, oh,you know, it's only 20% of my

(32:55):
revenue, but if it's churning at60%, okay, do the math.
That's a lot of your revenuewalking out the door.

SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Totally.

SPEAKER_00 (33:05):
That's impacting a GR, GRR.
Because even though the totalrevenue available to revenue
might be smaller, if 60% ischurning, or 40%, sorry, 40% is
churning, then you have aproblem.

SPEAKER_02 (33:18):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (33:19):
So it's it's it's going it's going to show up in
your numbers.
So I think that's the math weforget is that yes, the revenue
is small, but the churn is veryhigh.
But what's even more beautifulis this customer, they told us
they were like, look, thesecompanies, we we have seen that
if we can make them successfuland we can we can get them to
adopt the product and grow theproduct, our growth comes from

(33:41):
them because they grow at a veryfast pace.
Because you have new productsthat you want to sell to them,
they're actually perfectexpansion candidates.
So I think this idea that thesesmaller customers are somehow
not important is such a mistakennotion.
I will just say one thing, whichis you said, you know,
ostracizing those long-tailcustomers is a bad idea.

(34:01):
I don't think any leader incustomer success sets out a goal
of saying, let's ostracize thosepeople, right?
They don't do that.
I know that's not what youmeant.
I just want to pick up on thatword for a little bit.
We all have great intentions.
We do.
We want to treat those customersreally well.
Nobody wants to treat your, nomatter how small they are, you
want to treat them well.

(34:21):
So we in in our hearts we knowit's the right thing to do.
But the economics never madesense.
Right.
Right?
And you could never hire enoughhumans to go after that base.

SPEAKER_01 (34:32):
And you can't make a day 26 hours long to, you know,
you cannot do that.

SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
You cannot do that.
Maybe nowadays, you know,everybody's talking about 996.
I'm like, right.
We're we're all workaholics, weall work work way more than that
anyway.
But like this this 996 seems tobe the new thing in in Silicon
Valley these days, as I'm sureyou've seen.
But oh, I don't know if you'veheard.
I haven't actually.

SPEAKER_01 (34:55):
That's a new term.

SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
Look up 996.
Yes, 996 is this, it's a meme inSilicon Valley where you work
from 9 a.m.
to 9 p.m.
six days a week.
Oh.
That's like the new standard.
If you're working for one ofthese AI companies, that's the
new expectation, right?
So I know a lot of our, youknow, people in our community

(35:17):
work equally as hard, if notmore, but there's only so many
hours in a day, and there's onlyso many customers you can reach.
So you can never hire enoughhumans to serve the long tail in
the way they deserve to beserved.
But you know what you can donow, which you couldn't do two
years ago, actually, youcouldn't even do six months ago,

(35:38):
maybe, is you can hire agents togo after that long tail.

SPEAKER_02 (35:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (35:42):
And to us, that is the idea where you can have
agents and humans workingtogether to cover your entire
customer base and treating everysingle customer like your best
customer.

SPEAKER_01 (35:55):
Coexisting.

SPEAKER_00 (35:56):
You couldn't do it, you couldn't do it without
agents, but you can now withagents.

SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
And you know, I don't I don't it's not enough to
just throw an agent at things,right?
Because um if you uh you knowbuild an AI agent that does XYZ,
that's all that's all well andgood.
And that's gonna handle a lot ofyou know different use cases,
and it's gonna handle certainscenarios that come up.

(36:22):
But at the end of the day, thatorchestration between agent and
human, I think, is really wherethe power is because you know
you want to make your humans aseffective and as powerful as
possible.
And the and one of the ways todo that is you're gonna have the
agent take off the mundane,repeatable things and the low
value activity, throw that, youknow, throw the agent at those

(36:45):
kinds of things, but then havethe agent engage the human, you
know, when it when it gets intoa different territory of value
or retention or you know,whatever it may be.
So I think the system of uh allof all that is fascinating.
100%.

SPEAKER_00 (37:01):
I mean, I tend to think of agents in sort of in
two flavors, and it's this is alittle bit inspired by a talk
that Andre Carpathy gave at uh awhite combinator event.
Do you know who Andre Carpathyis?

SPEAKER_01 (37:15):
Uh-huh.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
So he did this uh awesome talk in September, I
think, late September, where hetalks about the the decade of
agents.
Now, people say like 2025 is theyear of agents.
Right.
And to me, that harkens back tolike back when I was here, when
I first moved to Silicon Valleyin 97, people thought dot-com

(37:39):
was going to change the world ina year.

SPEAKER_02 (37:41):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (37:41):
It took 20.
Okay.
It did change the world.
The internet did change theworld.
It just took 20 years, not two,right?
So he he was making the argumentbeautifully that don't get
sucked into the hype, that thethis idea that agents are agents
are um uh uh it's not about theyear of agents, it's about the

(38:04):
decade of agents.
Yeah, and one thing that he didreally well beautifully in that
is he talked about two kinds ofagents augmentation and
autonomy, two properties ofagents, right?
But the augmentation agents arethose that are agents that are
helping you helping you dothings better.

(38:25):
You've got humans, human CSMsdoing work, serving their
customers every day.
How can you help them do dothings better?
Right?
Autonomous agents that drivewith autonomy, without human
supervision, maybe there's humansupervision, but but it's not
humans actually doing the work.
Humans maybe are supervising theagents, but the agents are
actually doing the work.
Give you an example.

(38:46):
What's such an example?
Well, one we're working on iscalled a renewal agent.
So if you're a renewal cut, ifyour if your renewal is coming
up and you're a long tailcustomer, you know, we're not
gonna have it's not economicalfor you to hire uh a CSM or a
renewal manager to call somebodythat's paying you$2,000 a year,
right?
Right.
But what if an agent could callthem?

(39:06):
What you what if an agent couldemail them and get them, you
know, 90 120 days, 90 days, 60days before, have that cadence.
The agent does its own cadence,it writes its own emails, it
makes phone calls to thecustomer.
That's what we've built.
And if you could do that, thenyou are able to get that

(39:27):
customer renewed in a way thatyou just couldn't have done
before.
And so to me, that that is anautonomous agent.
You need humans to supervisethose agents, but they work
autonomously.
So I think this augmentationversus autonomy is a really
interesting way to frame whathow does agentic help in the
customer experience.

SPEAKER_01 (39:46):
I think that's uh that's incredibly smart, and I I
totally agree.
Because um You know, and and youknow, there are some there are a
lot of business processes wherean autonomous agent probably
isn't the right solution.
And I feel like there's a lot ofpeople just rushing to build
stuff and and rushing to kind ofget in the game because they

(40:09):
feel like they're gonna be leftbehind.
And I'm here to tell you that ifyou are if you are in that
category of feeling stressed outabout not having built an agent
and installed an agent to dosomething, it's still early
days.
You're not behind the eightball.
The fact that you're likelistening to podcasts like this
and reading up on agentsactually means you're probably
ahead of the game a little bit.

(40:29):
And and truth of the matter isthat we're still early days on
on all of this agentics stuffbecause I mean, you know, the
use cases are endless and and umand you know the the the ways of
doing it aren't really fullybaked, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 (40:47):
Yeah, I I really encourage you uh your your
listeners to watch that video.
Uh Andre Carpathy's gonna be agood idea.

SPEAKER_01 (40:54):
I'll link to it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 (40:56):
Yeah, I'll send you the you can see you can link to
it.
It's it's a pretty it's only 30minutes, but he breaks it down
so so nicely, very simply, uhusing he uses the Iron Man
analogy.
So Tony Stark, Tony Starkwearing the suit is
augmentation.
The suit is augmenting him.
But you know, in one of thelater movies, the suits, the

(41:18):
suits started flying on theirown.
They had an army of suits, therobots.
That's autonomy.
They're flying and doing thingsby themselves, and Jarvis is
controlling them.
So if you think about these twopads of agents, they're both
equally valid, they're bothequally useful.
One set of agents helps yourhumans, one set of agents does

(41:38):
the work without the humaninvolved.
Right.
For the customers that youcannot put humans at uh onto
because it's uneconomical.

SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (41:46):
It's you know, what's what I found is that in
terms of adoption, augmentationagents are actually easier to uh
get going with.
And we have some of those.
So for example, staircase, youknow, it's a company we bought
last year and has seen 7x growARR growth in one year.
Uh it's just come uh likeunbelievable growth.

(42:08):
And that's an augmentationagent, right?
Yeah, it basically allows a CSleader to get a sense of what's
happening in the customer base,where the risks are at, where
the expansion opportunities areat, and arms the CSMs and their
and their leadership to thinkabout their customer base in a
completely new way.
And that's supremely useful.

(42:32):
You know, it doesn't workautonomously.
I mean, it works for the theuser.
The user has to consume that andtake some action.
But but it's it's unbelievablyuseful.
And I think those kinds ofagents, I think there are more
of those available, includingfrom us, and there are other
companies that provide it.
And you can even build some ofyour own.
You know, I mean anybody who'sever built a custom GPT for

(42:53):
themselves is has is usingautonomous agents, exactly
right, especially if it's along-running process where you
can you can pull some of thesethings together.
I know people who are usingZapier and integrating to their
systems, like get some gongrecording calls, get some data
from Gainsite and Salesforce,throw it into Notebook LLM, and

(43:14):
then push it out to this, andthen stick it here.
Like people are building thisstuff that's happening.
You know, we have our CSMs, someof them who are exploring and
building their own agents tomake their jobs easier.

SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
I love that.
I love that.
And I I I so encourage umfrontline CSMs to not wait for
their operations team to launcha new tool.
Like get in there and and and dostuff, you know, and do things
that your your team members willbenefit from.
Because you're right, uh, youknow, a lot of people ask me uh
a very common question that Iget is okay, I'm using ChatGPT

(43:48):
now.
I'm like, awesome, that's great.
Um, in fact, I I did uh uh kindof back-to-back years of uh of
the of one of the majorconferences or whatnot.
And um the first year I askedthe question how many people in
the room were using Chat GPT ona daily basis, maybe 30% raised

(44:09):
their hands.
And then a year later, which waslast year, I asked the exact
same question.
Probably 90% of the room raisedtheir hand.
I was like, awesome, okay.
But the question I always get islike, what's level two?
Like, where what is where do Itake this thing to the next
level?
My answer invariably isautomations, you know, whether
it's Zapier or Make.com or uhwell, I mean uh OpenAI now has

(44:35):
an agent builder as well.
You know, there's all thesetools where you can essentially
connect your connect systemstogether to have these, you
know, to have these custom GPTsor these agents do things for
you.
And okay, let's be real aboutthis for a second.
A lot of people live in a dataenvironment that does not allow

(44:59):
them within the the confines oftheir enterprise to go build
stuff like that.
Okay, I totally get that.
But I also I'm and I'm curiousto get your take on this a
little bit, and this is totallyoff topic.
We didn't prepare for this atall, but like I see the value of
enterprise automations you knowjust exploding in the next few

(45:24):
years if they aren't already,um, and and having bespoke
people in you know RevOps Teamsor IT or wherever that may be,
heck chief automation officers.
I mean, that I think that's athing, right?
Surely it's a thing.

SPEAKER_00 (45:40):
Oh, I agree.
Uh you should talk to um youshould talk to Wade, Wade
Foster, who's a CEO of uhZapier.
Yeah.
Um I spoke to him a couple ofweeks ago, and it's incredible
what he has done.
Of course, they they they offerZapier to their customers, but
they're also the best users ofZapier internally.

(46:02):
Yeah and he has automatedeverything in his own life.
Like, for example, his his EA,his executive assistant, uses
Zapier and LLMs because fromZapier, their tool, their their
framework, you can call LLMs todo all the summarization tasks
and other sort of probabilistictasks.

(46:23):
So she built an entire set ofoperations to make what they
call exec ops.
You know, think about sales opsand rev ops and marketing ops.
And yeah, and he he's like,well, she created exec ops all
using Zapier.
I was like, I was so inspired bythat.
And so we're now you know, we'retalking to their team about how

(46:44):
we can we can learn from thatand how we can enable our
employees within the company,regardless of which department
you're in, customer success,support, legal, finance,
accounting.
There every department should bethinking about automation.
I actually I love your idea oflike chief automation officer,
because at the end of the day,you can say chief AI officer,

(47:06):
but like what does that actuallymean?
Like AI is not a value.
No.
Automation, however, is a value.
So I love this idea of like achief AI officer.
Um and and and sort of start tothink about how do you how do
you use you know these toolslike Zapier, and uh, there's so
many of them now uh that I Ithink are they've become

(47:29):
supercharged because of LLMs.
Zapier has been around for along time, right?
I've I've known Zapier and usedthat Zapier before, but Zapier
plus you know LLMs, it'smagical.

SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
Yeah.
And you know, even in your ownpersonal life, I'll give you a
fun one.
I have I have an NFC tag in mycar and I built an like an Apple
automation that basically when Iscan the NFC tag, it sends a
text to my wife that says thatI'm headed home.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (47:57):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (47:58):
It's like sure.
Why not why not do that kind ofstuff, you know?
So but I but I think it's thatkind of I think we're only
limited by our creativity onsome of this stuff, you know.
And yeah, I think that extendsfrom leadership level all the
way down to individualcontributor.

SPEAKER_00 (48:14):
So I need to I need to build one of those NFT tags
for my son.
He's he started driving lastyear.
And you know, ever since hestarted driving, it's been uh,
you know, it's it's it's beendifficult for my wife and I to
keep track of where he's at.
That's a good one.
I'm sure.
Uh maybe, maybe I'll I'll borrowyour zap recipe.

SPEAKER_01 (48:33):
Totally, totally.
Well, look, I hey, I want to berespectful of your time, and
we've had an amazingconversation.
We didn't talk about half thestuff that we were going to talk
about, but we talked about someamazing things.
So I think we'll we might do um,you know, maybe a part two at
some point.
But I do I would love to kind ofclose out with like quick,
quick, quick questions.
One is just around your contentdiet and what you're paying

(48:56):
attention to, whether it'sSubstacks or blogs or podcasts,
and what do you what do you umwhat are you digesting on a
regular basis?

SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
Well, a lot of it is uh I I a lot of it starts with
LinkedIn these days for me, andand I follow a couple of uh very
uh people that have very, very,very uh useful things they post.
There's a lot of you know notvery useful stuff.

(49:26):
There's a lot of AI slop inLinkedIn, so you have to be
careful.

SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Correct.

SPEAKER_00 (49:31):
But I've kind of I think I'm I'm slowly training my
LinkedIn algorithm to give mestuff from people uh that I
respect and and Substack.
And a lot of them, by the way,just link to their Substack.
That's one way to tell, right?
Like a you'll see some AI slopthat's just there, but some of
these people who have reallygood content, they'll post the
summary and then they'll say,here in the link, here's my

(49:51):
substack to go read.
So a couple of favorite peoplethat I love, uh two people that
I love reading, amongst others,but I'll mention two that I
think I would recommend to toyour listeners.
Uh, one is uh Professor EthanMalik at the University of
Pennsylvania.
He is amazing.
I've met him once before at whatat one at one of the events.

(50:12):
He's just sort of a leadingthinker on what's happening in
the world of AI.
But he's a business schoolprofessor, you see?
Interesting.
So he's he's a technologist.
He's he teaches at Wharton, yeahum, at the uh Wharton Business
School at the University ofPennsylvania, but he understands
technology very deeply.
So he studies and he works bythe way.

(50:33):
He he you before any before youand I see any new model from
OpenAI, he has access to it.
He's in that and open AI hasgiven him given him access to
like three weeks or four weeksbefore you and I got it, and
he's played around with it, andhe's you know, like on the day
they're they announce, he poststhat this I've been playing
around this the last three, fourmonths.
This is what it does, what Ilike, what I don't like.

(50:55):
Amazing, amazing guy.
He he posts some great contenton LinkedIn, has a sub stack.
His sub stack is called OneUseful Thing.
Okay, amazing.
Just uh I would highly recommendthat.
The other one I've startedlistening to uh uh sorry,
reading recently is um uh is ais a partner at one of the VC

(51:15):
firms, Bain Capital Ventures.
Uh her name is Sanya Oja.
Last name is OJHA.
And amazing, like lesstechnical, but more on the
industry dynamics, pricing, youknow, partnerships, sort of
strategy, you know, AI strategyand how it's evolving.
She's amazing.
I don't know if you've you'veread any of her posts.

(51:37):
I haven't, no, but I wouldn't.
She's fantastic, like fantasticanalysis, like her takes on
what's going on.
You know, she had like a veryinteresting take on this whole
um the hundred billion dollar,you know, moving between Oracle
and OpenAM and video.
You pass$100 million around thetable.
That's you know, it's amazing.
It was really, really, reallyfun read.

(51:59):
I I think she has some fantastictakes, and I always respect uh
and like reading her stuff.
Another eternal favorite ofmine, just going back to like
the old SaaS and SAS, what'sgoing on in SaaS and SaaS
metrics, is Cloud of Judgment byJammin Ball, who I'm sure you
know from Ultimator.
Uh and last but not least, myfavorite of all time, if you're

(52:20):
interested in technology, uh Ilove listening to anything Andre
Karpathi says.
Yes, of course.
He just did, by the way, did youjust watch the uh Dwarkesh uh
podcast?
No, I didn't.
So do you know the Dwarkeshpodcast?
So he just did one this pastweekend.
They and they released it, Ithink, Friday or Saturday, uh
this this this weekend.

(52:42):
Um you know, it's two and a halfhours.
So I it's hard to take the timeto listen to all of it.
I'm trying to listen to bits andpieces in between meetings or
when I'm driving my kids to todo activities.
But it's a two-hour pro uh uh doa two and a half hour podcast
about the future of AI andagentic, must listen.

(53:05):
And um, I think I'm about like athird of the way through, and I
can't wait to wait to listen tothe uh to the rest of it.

SPEAKER_01 (53:11):
Cool.
I'm gonna link all of those inthe show notes.
So if uh everybody wants tofollow what you're following,
they will be able to.
That's great.
I appreciate that.
Well, look, um I've reallyenjoyed this conversation.
It's been uh super fun hangingout with you and just talking
shop.
So I definitely appreciate it,and I hope the listeners
appreciate it too.

(53:32):
Any any parting words for themasses out there?

SPEAKER_00 (53:37):
Uh, you know, I look, I think I I think
listening and learning uh inthis in this day and age is so
important for us to stay on uhon on top of what's going on.
Like I said, I think I've I'vebeen in this industry for 25
years, building software andtechnology, and I've never been
more excited.
And and bringing that learningmindset is so important now, no

(53:59):
matter how much experience youhave, and you know, you have to
take a beginner's mind toeverything because everything is
changing.
And yes, it's not gonna changein a year, but it's gonna
change.
The world's gonna look verydifferent in five years.
I wouldn't even say 10 years, Ithink in five years it's gonna
look very different.
So I think the more we listenand learn to podcasts like

(54:20):
yours, you know, some of thepeople that we've talked about,
just keep an open mind and keepon learning.
That's what it's all about.
And and just don't forget thatlike I think in this, you know,
you know, uh at the end of theday, you know, this this
practice of customer successthat we're in is an eternal
practice, right?

(54:41):
Like, who doesn't want to likewhen if not good things happen?
You know, uh good things havenot happened when you make your
customer successful.
That's never gonna go away,whether it's AI or agentic or
whatever.
Yeah.
And yeah, at the end of the day,humans buy from humans, like you
and I talking to each other,right?
So the the human relationshipmatters, and as long as we stay

(55:01):
focused on that and we keep alearning mindset, I think we're
gonna we're gonna have anamazing future.
So I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 (55:08):
I really agree.
I completely agree.
That human-to-human thing isnever going away.
So it's not going away.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (55:14):
Well, I appreciate you uh having me on the show.

SPEAKER_01 (55:17):
Thank you for joining me for this episode of
the Digital CX Podcast.
If you like what we're doing, uhconsider leaving us a review on
your podcast platform of choice.
If you're watching on YouTube,leave a comment down below.
It really helps us to grow andprovide value to a broader
audience and get moreinformation about the show and
some of the other things thatwe're doing at
digitalcustomersuccess.com.

(55:39):
I'm Alex Drogovic.
Thanks so much for listening,and we'll talk to you next week.

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Retention Is Existential: Gainsight’s New CEO Chuck Ganapathi on RaaS, AI Agents & the 80/20 Trap | Episode 100

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Retention Is Existential: Gainsight’s New CEO Chuck Ganapathi on RaaS, AI Agents & the 80/20 Trap | Episode 100