January 8, 2025 • 40 mins
What if the lessons of a logical classroom and a father’s breakfast table could transform your approach to leadership and life? In this episode of The Digital Marketing Mentor, we talk with Bo Bothe, president and CEO of BrandExtract, a brand strategy firm in Houston, to discover insights gathered over the course of his career journey - from his education, leadership style, and the importance of mentorship. Bo highlights lessons from his father, his MBA experience, and the value of resilience, personal growth, and community. Bo also explores the challenges of hybrid work, detailing his company’s evolving approach to maintaining team connection and productivity in a remote environment.
Episode Highlights:
- Bo highlights the complexities of hybrid work, noting the challenges it poses for team connection and productivity. His company has experimented with various models over the years and has recently moved to a four-day in-office schedule to foster stronger collaboration.
- He considers his father as a pivotal mentor, whose resilience, positivity, and unconventional wisdom has dramatically shaped his outlook on life. He also mentors others, from employees to young people in sports, and believes in understanding individuals’ personal visions and challenges.
- Bo values mentorship and takes a personalized approach, tailoring his guidance to individual needs to promote positive personal and professional growth.
Episode Links:
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Interested in Digital Marketing Services, Careers, or Courses? Check out more from the TDMM Family:
- Optidge.com - Full Service Digital Marketing Agency specializing in SEO, PPC, Paid Social, and Lead Generation efforts for established B2C and B2B businesses and organizations.
- ODEOacademy.com - Digital Marketing online education and course platform. ODEO gives you solid digital marketing knowledge to launch/boost your career or understand your business’s digital marketing strategy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danny Gavin (00:05):
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor.
I'm your host, danny Gavin, andtogether with industry leaders
and marketing experts, we'llexplore the meeting point of
mentorship and marketing.
We'll discover how theseconnections have affected
careers, marketing strategiesand lives.
Now get ready to get human.
Hello, I'm Danny Gavin, founderof Optige, marketing Professor
(00:36):
and the host of the DigitalMarketing Mentor.
Now get ready to get human.
That provides strategicguidance, helping clients grow
their businesses throughdata-driven strategies, branding
, marketing and digital services.
Brand extract was named one ofthe fastest growing agencies by
adweek magazine in 2023.
Bo himself is a father, ahusband, a sports coach, a
passionate volunteer.
He's won numerous awards,namely the houston business
(00:59):
journal's inaugural 40 under 40,the rice jones school alumni
service and a bunch of others.
When he's not at home, workingor volunteering, he's a City of
Spring, texas council member,part of the Cream Jackson
Foundation, a board member ofthe Family Houston and San
Jacinto Museum of History.
He's also the founder of ESGReporting Partners and he's a
former contributor to the ForbesAgency Council.
(01:21):
That's a whole lot, but soimpressive.
How are you doing, beau?
Bo Bothe (01:25):
I'm good, I'm good.
Danny, how are you Embarrassingthere?
Kareem Jackson was traded, sothere's a different one there,
but it's all good.
Danny Gavin (01:37):
I'm glad you find a little bit of time for your
business, right.
Bo Bothe (01:39):
Yeah, just a tiny bit.
Danny Gavin (01:40):
Let's jump right in .
Where did you go to school andwhat did you study?
Bo Bothe (01:50):
I went to Texas Tech graphic designer by trade and
then did design work for yearsand then went back to Rice and
got my MBA at Jones School sothat I could have better
conversations with my clientsabout the stuff we were making,
and that turned into branding.
Danny Gavin (01:58):
Are there any experiences both inside and
outside the classroom that weremost impactful in directing your
path?
Bo Bothe (02:04):
So one I lucked or stumbled into a logic class.
I thought I was going to take aphilosophy class.
That was all about you know,the earth is some molecule in
your hand.
I thought it was going to bethat thing and it ends up being
you know, theorems and likeif-then statements and it was
basically a thinking class.
You know about building goodstatements and it was basically
(02:25):
a thinking class about buildinggood arguments and it was one of
the best experiences I ever had, on top of learning how to be a
designer and communicate withvisuals and elements and all
that kind of stuff and then spinthat into a career and then
into Rice.
Dwayne Windsor was justmentioned on LinkedIn this week.
He was one of my professors,leadership and ethics.
One of the most formativeconversations I had with my
(02:46):
classmates was he walked in theroom and he's like we were
watching 12 o'clock high I thinkit was the name of the movie
and you're trying to getsomebody to go bomb Japan and
nobody's going to come back.
And can you get anybody to comedo it?
And Dwayne walks in and he goesleaders, manipulate, go, and it
was just.
It was one of the mostincredible conversations about
(03:09):
just getting people to move andinspiring people for good and
bad and how do you use things.
And so those are some seminalkind of things that have
happened in my education on topof just technical learning that
really kind of stuck with mecommunication and leadership and
kind of making things go in theworld and in your life.
Danny Gavin (03:33):
I know these days there's some discussion around
is it worth getting an MBA.
So can you tell me a littleabout your MBA experience?
When you look back at was itworth it and also now, when
you're looking at hiring people,do you find that an MBA is
something that's of value?
Bo Bothe (03:47):
Kind of funny.
I'm a big dude.
I lack confidence a lot.
Historically I thought I wassmall but I was basically
playing basketball and footballin the land of giants all the
time, and six foot four is notthat big in that universe.
And so there are things thatI've historically thought, oh
well, I need this or I need thatto kind of be my shield of
(04:08):
armor.
And the MBA was one of those.
I was really able to kind oflean in and learn a language and
think of things differently.
The other side of that thenetwork that I got, the great
friends that I got out of it,the technical learning was
outstanding.
The professors were amazing.
The Rice Network, much like anygreat business school, is
incredible.
But at the end of the day I wastrying to build some confidence
(04:31):
.
I ended up with an incrediblenetwork of very thoughtful
people that will be with me formy lifetime.
And so the investment beyond theeducation piece because if it
were just the education, you'regetting the full-time MBA and
you're just learning how to do aspreadsheet that turns into
kind of a technical trade it upinto a job that pays me more.
That wasn't what I was lookingto do.
And this executive MBA.
(04:53):
Having 10 years of experienceand then getting into it was
just phenomenal.
So I think for listeners ifthey're considering an MBA, I'd
get a little bit of professionalexperience to have context into
how you want to apply thatbusiness knowledge.
But an MBA is also a great wayto change the game career-wise.
I thought it was great.
It was a lot of money.
It's a lot more money now after20 years.
(05:15):
So there's a little bit of anROI thing.
You got to really get into it.
Danny Gavin (05:19):
Do you look for master's degrees at all for the
people that you're hiring?
Not really.
Bo Bothe (05:24):
I think today it is I wouldn't say easy.
It shows commitment, but welook for hustle.
I barely look at resumesanymore.
I mean they can be so faked andthey are what they are.
And so we have a prettygrueling interview to where you
meet with a number of people inbig groups and small groups and
all that kind of stuff, just toget to where people can be
themselves to see whether theyfit us and we fit them.
(05:46):
But if somebody has an MBA orhas an advanced degree, it will
rise to the top to say, hey look, let's give this a look.
Danny Gavin (05:53):
So Beau.
How would you define a?
Bo Bothe (05:54):
mentor A guide.
I've had a number of mentors inmy life.
I work best with drillsergeants.
If I'm looking for a mentor,I'm looking for someone to tell
me what they think I should do,and I'm enough of a contrarian
to then choose not to do whatthey say, but because I know who
I am.
But I think a good mentor is aguide.
(06:16):
One of the things that I'velearned in my EO experiences and
in my group learningexperiences has been the idea of
gestalt.
A good mentor can bringexperiences to the table and not
really tell you what you haveto do, but can give you kind of.
In these situations this thinghappened.
It sounds a lot like what'sgoing on with you or just
somebody that can give you somecontext.
(06:36):
I'd put them in that kind ofguide, whether spiritual or
emotional kind of side of thingsor business standpoint.
Those are the kind of mentorsthat I do really well with.
There are ones that are kind ofwant to run alongside you or
walk behind you and let you kindof lead.
Danny Gavin (06:50):
But how does that balance with that drill sergeant
, because you mentioned at thebeginning, like I, like someone
who's a drill sergeant.
How does that match for someonewho's a guide, a leader?
Do you feel like you can findsomeone who has both?
Bo Bothe (06:59):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that there's a pointwhere when I'm working with a
mentor and I think my mentorstyle there's a point where the
mentee is typically trying toget over a hurdle.
They're usually trying to getover a hump.
I use the MBA to get me over ahump.
In my confidence, thedecision's not really that hard.
(07:19):
Mentoring someone like me whocan overthink, overthink,
overthink, there is a pointwhere somebody is going to need
to stand up and say, look, thisis not that big a deal, make a
decision.
The drill sergeant kind ofmentor works with me because
that level of confidence reallykind of has an impact on me
where someone more like supercontrarian would not like that
(07:40):
kind of role.
And so when you think about amentor, I think there's that
guide piece and then there arethese different personalities of
those.
There was an old HarvardBusiness Review, I think, or
Wall Street Journal article, Ican't remember which that kind
of broke mentors up into thesekind of four categories.
There's the wide sage, there'sthe drill sergeant, there's the
spiritual guide and then there'sthe psychologist, the one that
(08:03):
goes like what do you thinkabout that?
I never will give you an answer.
I think when people are workingwith mentors.
You may need a different one atdifferent times.
Danny Gavin (08:11):
Yeah, agreed.
I don't think there's oneperson who can be the mentor for
you throughout your whole lifein some ways right, you need
different people at differentpoints.
Bo Bothe (08:20):
Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about my dad incredible
mentor for me but there was apoint where I couldn't hear him.
I think we all get like that towhere it's okay, now it's time.
For me, it's just a normalgrowth thing.
Danny Gavin (08:35):
Let's actually talk about your dad.
Why do you put him as one ofyour most influential mentors?
Bo Bothe (08:39):
I can't remember if we talked about it when we got
together, but my father grew upincredibly poor.
He recreated himself, lied hisway in the Marine Corps.
When he was 17, found my mom atan embassy in Tokyo, japan.
She's from Pittsburgh, he'sfrom Texas City.
Decided that he was thinkingabout my mom and the family that
he was going to create with herin the foxhole while getting
(09:01):
shot at, so decided he didn'twant to be in the military
anymore, got in the carpetbusiness, recreated that whole
thing, grew the business, boughtit from my uncle and then lost
the business in the 80s, late80s, went bankrupt, restarted
selling insurance and got intofinancial planning and then
(09:21):
started a prison ministry andthen had a spiritual life as a
deacon.
And I mean mean there was justa constant I can always do it
with him and there was aconstant positive outlook in the
world.
When we would get up in themorning he would just be yelling
in the house I feel terrific, Ifeel outstanding.
It's going to be a great day,and a little bit of it was.
(09:43):
He was trying to convincehimself that it was going to be
a great day and it it a littlebit of it was.
He was trying to convincehimself that it was going to be
a great day, cause you canimagine all the stuff he's had
to deal with in his life.
He was relentless, he justnever stopped.
He never stopped being positive.
He never stopped believing andbeing strong in his faith.
He was always there for us.
From a family standpoint, hewas always there, just committed
to my mother.
They put each other's weddingrings on every time.
(10:06):
They'd take them off to work inthe yard or whatever.
They put them back on eachother's fingers.
From a business standpoint, froma life standpoint, from a
spiritual standpoint, he wasjust unconventional but rock
solid.
I get down and I get up, but Inever.
And I kind of have high highsand low lows.
The Italian in me lets it gosometimes, but I never.
And I kind of have high highsand low lows.
The Italian in me lets it gosometimes, but there's never
(10:28):
something I can't overcome.
And I think that was somethinghe taught me as my kind of
mentor in life.
And he picked graphic design.
We were driving up to tech andhe was like I don't think you
want to do advertising.
I think this design thing iswhat you want to do.
Because he's looking throughthe book he was just really
thoughtful and listened, superpersonal it's like a family kind
(10:50):
of thing and he just was man.
He had vision and insightfuland not like a normal dad story.
He could do anything.
But just watching thatexperience through my life and
thinking about his life, wherehe came from and what he did
incredible Forrest Gump.
Danny Gavin (11:08):
That's what he sounds like.
I get goosebumps.
Just you talking about him.
What a remarkable man really.
Bo Bothe (11:14):
Yeah, I was very blessed and very lucky to have
had him in my life.
There's a Jesuit prayer thatyou can do which is more of just
a meditation, and one of thethings is thank whatever the
metaphysical God or whatever itis you believe in, just give
thanks, and every time I thankman, thank God for my dad and my
(11:38):
mom, because I just I hit thefreaking jackpot with them.
I mean totally.
So that's a little.
It's a lot of why and I lookjust like him.
So it's a lot of why I am who Iam, except for he had a giant
head, like I would say that hehad a giant face and this really
tiny head, so none of his hatslike his cowboy hats and stuff
won't fit me.
That's the only differencebetween the two.
Danny Gavin (11:56):
So obviously he was someone that you looked up to
and you watched him and learnedfrom him.
How about conversations Likewhen you had a problem, were you
able to go to him, or maybewhen he noticed like something
was off, would he come to you?
How was that communicationbetween you two?
Bo Bothe (12:11):
Both, I think.
And back to your point about agood mentor, I think you know
good mentors should listen a lot, you know, rather than tell.
He was always, as a youngperson, he was always telling
you know, but there were pointswhere he could see I needed to
stop, and so he would hear inthese conversations things that
(12:36):
I would say and he'd pick up on,and it'd be that, back to the
gestalt thing you mean, likethis son, he'd clarify On the
other side of it, he passed awaytwo and a half years ago,
almost three years ago, and, man, I didn't realize how much we
didn't.
We probably saw each other onceor twice a month, maybe three
times, and as he got more andmore sick and more homebound, it
was harder for us, other thanme going to the house.
We used to go to breakfasttwice a week or do something.
I miss the little brief45-minute breakfast conversation
(12:59):
.
That was always reallythoughtful and it was about deep
things my relationship with mywife, his relationship with my
mom, our relationship with kids,his relationship with us,
business, politics, religion.
We talked about all that stuff.
Even when I was a little kidwe'd have these crazy
(13:25):
conversations about Democratsand Republicans and the world
leaders and what's going on.
I mean, what person, when theywere nine and eight and seven,
remembers Nixon and Watergateand Ford and Carter?
I mean, I remember it like itwas yesterday because we would
sit on the floor and we'd watchit.
We talked about everything.
Danny Gavin (13:42):
So let's talk about now who you mentor.
So you've mentioned, obviously,your employees, peers in the
industry like me, children andother people in different groups
.
What's your mentorship stylelike?
Bo Bothe (13:54):
I have to catch myself sometimes because I do
obviously like to talk.
My style is probably a lot moreget to know you personally, get
to know a person personally,understand the pressures and
vision they have for their life,the things that are pulling on
them.
Because it's easy if it's abusiness mentorship program,
it's a family membership,because we've done new couples
(14:16):
stuff with my wife at church andother things those situations
become it's all personal.
But then you have to pull thebusiness stuff in and in some
cases it's supposed to be allbusiness.
But humans aren't automatons.
They have a lot of pressuresand things that are going on at
different times in their livesand so I like to, either, if
(14:36):
it's a personal one, I like tookay what outside factors are
affecting personally.
If it's a young person, thatdoesn't have any context, I try
and get them to understandwhat's your vision for life,
what do you see yourself?
As I think so many people don'tthink about that.
They think about the moment andwhat they want to get out of it
, but they don't think 20 years,10 years, 20, 30 years, down
(14:59):
the road and go I want to have afamily someday, or I'll never
have a family, or I, you knowwhatever, and how does that?
The experience is built to thatvision of what you've got.
And on the business side I tryand dig in personally at first.
You know to understand on ahuman level.
You know how do people makedecisions, what was their life
like, who influenced them andall that.
And then I shut up and say,okay, what is the stuff that you
(15:21):
got to you want to deal with?
I try and let anybody I'mmentoring with or it's a kid
that has no context, you know,or adult that's been doing it
forever the room to really kindof think through what they need
to get to grow, because thatshould be any kind of mentor
should be kind of bump upagainst that friend,
understanding, advisor, wise,guide kind of thing, but also be
(15:44):
personal enough to where youcan understand all the variables
in the conversation or thedrivers that are kind of making
people think a certain way.
Danny Gavin (15:51):
Earlier you mentioned the Gestalt theory.
Do you want to expand on that?
Explain to the listeners whatthat is and how you use it?
Bo Bothe (15:58):
Yeah.
So on the design side, gestaltis just like you know how it all
kind of works together.
Everything works together,which many people, especially in
design today, kind of mess thatup.
But on this side of stuff, theidea of letting someone come to
their conclusion without telling, and so there's always the idea
of, okay, what's the problem?
We're trying to solve?
Clarifying the question,clarifying questions, what do
(16:23):
you see?
All the kind of drawing out andthen letting someone come to
their own solution that's atleast the experience we had
through EO rather than thetelling piece that said, someone
like me at some point is goingto go look man, just tell me
what to do.
I think I know what I need tobe doing, but what do I need to
do?
So I kind of sometimes throwGestalt out the window.
Danny Gavin (16:45):
It's hard especially both you and I to
talk and give our ideas.
It requires so muchself-control Just like hold back
, like I just want to saysomething.
Bo Bothe (16:54):
If I pray for anything , it's patience.
To shut up sometimes and listen.
I would say that's one of myAchilles heels.
I can sometimes get excited,and it's not to hear myself talk
.
I get excited about a thing andthe other problem I have.
This is what happened in mybusiness school.
There was one moment where,like one of the girls who's very
(17:15):
analytical, michelle, she stoodup in front of me one time as I
was explaining and I'm notgetting any feedback.
And so sometimes, danny, if Idon't get feedback, I'll lean in
and I'll just keep talkinguntil I get enough.
And poor Michelle stood up I'mexplaining an answer and she
stood up, turned around, lookedat me and she's like Bo, stop
talking, what's your point?
(17:35):
I was like this is in front ofmy whole cohort and I was like
it was one of the best learningexperiences on top of those
learning experiences you'retalking about.
It's like man, collect yourthoughts and make your point and
don't worry about the feedback,because that's always been a
challenge for me.
It's not just liking to talk,it's sometimes, oh man, maybe
I'm not getting across, and ifI'm getting no feedback, it
(17:56):
causes problems.
Danny Gavin (17:58):
A similar point.
But I often tell my childrenthat kind of like when they're
rambling, it's like, hey, juststop a second, it's okay to be
quiet.
Think through first what youwant to say and then give it
over.
Bo Bothe (18:08):
And I think in a busy world it gets harder to let
white space happen.
You know the ums and the uhsand all that kind of stuff.
There's one out there.
We want to fill the space andwhen you're in a mentoring
relationship, if you're thinkingabout it right, you want to
(18:29):
give something of value andsometimes it comes out as words,
and sometimes to your point itneeds to just be quiet.
Danny Gavin (18:32):
Yeah, leaning into the white space.
So let's pivot a little bit.
So what got me really excitedand why?
Besides, just in general, howmuch I like you and look up to
you.
You put out a blog postrecently, the article called
Mentorship and Growth and HybridWork Model a CEO Perspective,
and obviously I have thementorship podcast.
So when I saw an article onmentorship, like oh my gosh, I
(18:54):
have to have Bo on.
Recently, you posted onLinkedIn that you have a
love-hate relationship withremote work.
Can you explain what you mean?
Bo Bothe (19:01):
Yeah, I think that one of the challenges that I have
had.
I am, by nature, an extrovert.
I get energy in the biologic orphysical sense.
I get energy from being aroundpeople.
And back to that feedback thingwe were talking about.
We've wandered the wildernessnow for four years, almost four.
(19:25):
Has it been four?
It's been four years when we'vebeen mostly hybrid and mostly
remote and a person like me thatis trying to build an amazing
business.
I don't want to just have abusiness, I want to be
extraordinary and unique, andextraordinary in the dictionary
sense of those words.
It's hard to get there when youdon't see anybody.
(19:47):
It's hard to be motivated whenyou're like me.
And so I've spent this lastfour years listening to my team
and talking about things andlooking at data and all this
kind of stuff, and I'm realizingat least for me and I had to
check myself a lot in this, youknow, like am I thinking this?
Just because it's what I want towill to happen and what I was
noticing with my guys and whatprompted me to kind of write
(20:10):
this article and go on thislittle odyssey that I'm on right
now, is that we're not growingthe way we need to grow.
Now that doesn't mean we haveto sit next to each other all
the time, but the reality isit's really hard, the extra
effort it takes to be completelyremote and still share a common
bond across different peoplethat learn different ways, doing
(20:33):
different things.
You know, with an organizationthat got to be 65 people or 50,
yeah, 60, yeah, 65 people, it'sbananas, I mean.
It's just, it's hard and itdoesn't make it right, wrong,
good or bad.
That's what I was trying to inthe article, you know.
But we set up just recentlyCynthia Sipach youach, our
director of brand experience,managing director of brand
(20:55):
experience, just set up a reallyintense mentorship program so
that we can kind of combine someof this.
So that was a little bit ofthat's what's been going on.
That's why I wrote the articleand kind of looked at it because
I was missing out.
But then I think my team wasmissing out, we weren't growing
the way we should have grown,being completely remote like we
were.
Danny Gavin (21:14):
So tell me a little bit about the hybrid model that
you're currently going through.
I don't know if I told you thestory, but a month or two before
COVID hit, one of my keyemployees came into my office
and she said hey, danny, I'mmoving to Montana.
And she got really sad, she wascrying, and I was like, ooh, um
, how about you work remotely?
(21:35):
And she was like I couldn'tbelieve, like I can't believe,
actually said that.
So yeah, let's talk about it.
So we spoke about it and thenright away I remember messaging
like a whole bunch of people Ithink Terry Hoffman as well.
I was like how do you manageremote people?
Like can it, can this besuccessful?
And like I ended up buying oneof the owl cameras I know you
have one of the owls and like,and I found it hard, I found it
(21:57):
hard to have some people on Zoomand some people in the room and
for me it was really like it'sjust easier for it to be one or
the other.
So tell me about what doeshybrid mean to you and how do
you deal with kind of that issueof not having you know either
extreme, but kind of have todeal with both?
Bo Bothe (22:15):
Yeah, I think we're trying to perfect it.
We were completely out of theoffice with some optionality to
come in.
And then, I think year two, wesaid, look two days a week, but
they can be whenever.
And then we said look one day aweek with your team.
And, hey, leaders, bedeliberate about which teams
(22:35):
overlap, and one day a week,potluck so you can meet.
You can bump into some otherpeople.
Then we said, hey, leaders, bedeliberate about which teams
overlap, and one day a week,potluck so you can bump into
some other people.
Then we said, hey, look,certain functions need to be in
here three days a week, certainfunctions need to.
And the team embraced it.
And then, most recently, becauseI've told you about flagging
business and things going on andour clients being semi-remote
(22:56):
and really distracted, I thought, look, we need to get together
and be here.
So right now, everybody's inthe office four days a week and
I've horribly disrupted my teamand their lives.
It is with great intention andit is a 90-day sprint and we're
looking at it.
So, danny, we've run all ofthese different things to get to
(23:16):
kind of what's going to workand we've instituted all these
different tools.
We got mural boards and weleaned into Zoom and we don't
have office phones anymore andwe joke around in here.
But every natural disaster wasone way to untether and then it
became a complete.
This one became a way tocompletely untether.
But we always had a kind offreedom of work, like if you
(23:38):
needed to stay home and work, wewere always okay with it.
It was never a problem, unlessyou had to collaborate with a
team or go meet a client.
It was like, hey, man, I needfocus time, I'm going to stay
home and, with a lot of trust,we don't count full PTO days,
but we don't count doctor'svisits, we don't count going to
coach your kids and picking themup from school or any of that
(23:58):
kind of stuff.
So we've always had thistendency of freedom of work.
But when it becomes like a, whenit became kind of a rule or a
like a like like this is whatwe're going to do, it got really
weird.
I mean it got really strange.
People felt constrained or theyfelt so much freedom that they.
I mean it got really strange.
People felt constrained or theyfelt so much freedom that they
(24:19):
couldn't manage themselves.
There are not a lot of people,I'll be honest.
Not a lot of people have thediscipline to work at home
efficiently and effectively anddo the extra work it takes to
build relationships that we wantto have in our organization so
that we're kind of fully inmotion.
It's been a pretty wild ride,but that's the we're right now
(24:40):
four days a week.
I'm not going to tell you whatI think we're going to land on
because everybody, if anybodylistens to this, they'll be like
oh my God, beau made a promise.
But we're trying to figure itout, you know, because there are
some roles that really can beheads down.
What we did learn, back to thementoring piece, is if you're
going to be at home 100% of thetime doing work and just being
efficient, it's going to bereally hard.
It's harder for someone likethat in that role to really
(25:04):
start to grow in their abilityto lead an organization or
collaborate or lead a team Nottechnically lead a team, but
mentoring and growing the peoplearound them and all that kind
of stuff.
It can be done.
It just makes it morecomplicated.
And answer but people didn'twant to disrupt somebody and all
(25:43):
of a sudden a project thatcouldn't move forward for two
days because they couldn't find20 minutes on your calendar.
It was causing a lot ofinefficiencies too.
Danny Gavin (25:50):
Did you try to set up a mentorship structure or
program in the hybrid remotesense?
Bo Bothe (25:57):
Yeah, structure or program in the hybrid remote
sense.
Yeah, it actually been aboutsix months in the making and
we're rolling it out now, eventhough we're going to bring it
back.
But we were doing it informally.
We use EOS, so there was a lotof check-ins, a lot of talkings,
but it was all mentorshipwithin groups and it was all
kind of the formal check-ins,monthly check-ins with key
(26:19):
people that really helped us.
But there are some people herethat want to grow but they're
not as visible all the timebecause they're out of the
office or they're doingsomething and you know.
So I've got two formal mentors.
Now We've got a worksheet andthis whole system that Cynthia
set up that we're going to do.
That should have happened twoyears ago.
Where we dropped the ball, thatshould have happened two, three
(26:42):
years ago.
We should have seen that.
That's one of the again driversfor this article was that we
saw that in our EOS platform wemade it a rock.
It's been a six-month kind ofokay, define a program that
works right, what's the burden,how many people?
All that kind of stuff.
And that mentorship beyond acheck-in is really focused on
helping people grow in theircareers and some of them are
(27:04):
kind of family questions toothat they're asking.
Danny Gavin (27:06):
So I think you're lucky in the sense that and
correct me if I'm wrong thatmost of your employees are in
Houston and therefore for you tocome back in the office.
It wasn't like suddenly, overthe past four years, you hired
someone in Denver and in NewYork and in Canada.
I guess for some people to gofrom remote back to an office
could be pretty complicated.
So for those people who have towork on a remote or hybrid
(27:29):
model, at least for now, whatadvice would you give to them
for interacting with people,setting up that mentorship
program?
Bo Bothe (27:36):
So in clarification, so we're 15% remote.
We've got two teammates inArizona, one in Boston, one in
Pittsburgh, one in Chicago andwe've had more.
You know, with our kind oflayoffs earlier in the year we,
you know, we had a handful more.
And then we have a couple herethat have like drive-in from
(27:56):
Waller.
So you know it's an hour and ahalf, you know.
So we have people that are notremote but they would be much
less inconvenienced if they wereremote.
And then we got the other 80percent, you know are local
enough to where it's nothorrible to come in.
We've had to really lean intocheck ins and different pieces
that way, really lean intocheck-ins and different pieces.
That way, if I were a remoteemployee right now, I do a thing
(28:20):
a breakfast with Bo and I doone at Slow Pokes over here
around the corner for peoplethat are local, and then an hour
later I do an online breakfastwith Bo, because some people are
in their West Coast time andother East Coast time, so I got
to do it at 11 or 10.
So I don't affect a lunch, butI don't get somebody up early,
too early From a leadershipstandpoint.
(28:40):
That's just a general mentoring.
You know where we just talkabout what's going on in the
business, what's going on in theindustry, what's going on in
their lives, you know, and howwe could be better, or what's
going with any questions theyhave.
And we talked politics the lasttime and how the election was
going to affect the business,because those are things that
(29:01):
are on top of mind internally.
So if I were for somebodyoutside the office, I'd pick a
mentor.
I just like, I was like kind ofguy, so I just say hey, you
know, Jimmy or Sue, you know,let's get together.
And you know, do you mindgiving me 30 minutes a month?
There I can kind of pick yourbrain and talk to you about
stuff.
And, quite frankly, many peoplewant to do that.
They want to connect on a humanlevel.
That's something I wish some ofour remote people would have
(29:23):
done, you know, and we encourageit.
But now that we have thisformal program they can kind of
lean into it pretty easy.
Organizations really need to.
If you're going to be remote, asignificant amount of time
you've got to put these thingsin place so that you can keep
some cultural connection, so itdoesn't turn into a
(29:44):
transactional relationship withyour employees where they're
just working, because the minutethey get more money they're
going to be gone?
Danny Gavin (29:51):
Did you hire remotely before 2020?
No, the two.
Bo Bothe (29:56):
We freelanced remotely , but the two people that were
remote were moved by theirhusband, their spouses, you know
, and we just we loved them somuch that we just went, like you
, Danny, we wanted to keep themand we were able to make.
We had, you know, our test casewith a woman.
In went to East Texas and she'sa huge part of our company for
a long period of time.
And then you know, our digitalmarketing manager's in Boston
(30:19):
because he married aMassachusetts girl and she found
a great job up there that fither better, because Houston's
just weird, it's where shecouldn't get into what she
wanted to, and so she went upthere, Cage and Chris followed
her up there.
Danny Gavin (30:36):
He's freezing 10 months of the year, his loss.
So with 20% remote, 80% office,have you had any complaints in
general of like factions, or hey, I'm missing out, I don't feel
like.
Do people speak up about thatat all?
Bo Bothe (30:49):
A little Our culture has been.
I mean, it's been a rough year,so our culture has taken a big
hit.
But, man, people here havealways been really helpful and
really kind and reallyopen-minded.
And that extends then to theremote team, and while there is
some disconnect and we don't getto see them at happy hours and
(31:11):
stuff like that, there is also awillingness to reach out, and
so some of the people are remoteor resource management, or
they're on the digital marketingteam or they're, and so they're
they're called in all the timeto discussions and conversations
.
That one of the reasons I set upthe breakfast, though every two
weeks, was because they werefeeling a little bit like we're
(31:32):
bringing everybody back to theoffice.
And the thing that I didn'trealize was like they freaked
out.
They're like, yeah, oh, you'rebringing everybody in the office
.
And the thing that I didn'trealize was like they freaked
out.
They're like, yeah, oh, you'rebringing everybody in the office
, you know.
And back to me, being a goodleader and mentor of my business
, I had to like, oh wait, okay,I heard this one thing that
makes complete sense.
Let's have this breakfast andthey can clarify things.
And then I also talked to myleaders about making sure, but
(31:54):
again, with EOS and L10s and theweekly check-ins and all that
kind of stuff, man, there are alot of excuses to pull in remote
workers and people that aren'tin the same proximity, and
that's been really helpful.
Danny Gavin (32:09):
But it does show you that you do have to be
intentional about it, right?
Because?
If you're just working in theoffice and do everything you
need.
You could potentially forget,but if that's why you need those
systems and processes, officeand do everything, you need.
Bo Bothe (32:18):
You could potentially forget, but if that's why you
need those systems and processes, I mean and being fair, I'll
stumble over names I mean, therewas a point where, when I
wasn't doing these breakfasts, Iwas getting to a point where I
was like, oh man, I don't seeDinesh.
I mean, who's that?
And I'm old, so I startforgetting things and I'm like,
wait a minute, I need to meetwith these people more often
because it's not the kind ofrelationship I want.
(32:38):
And so to your point, you haveto be really deliberate and
thoughtful.
Danny Gavin (32:42):
All right, we are going to move to our top three.
So three things that you'vementioned that are really
important to you is family andcoaching, running an exercise
and consuming tons of podcasts.
Would love to know yourfavorite experience, or, just in
general, what you like, withregards to that category.
So let's start with family andcoaching.
Bo Bothe (33:02):
On the family and coaching piece.
It was kind of funny.
You were reading off all thatstuff.
So when I got my MBA, we hadtwo kids.
I'd quit my job.
I left my partnership, I wasstarting my own business.
I was AIGA co-president so Iwould only do it with a co
because it was like man, I gottoo much going on and I coached
every team.
I was actually a starter forthe swim team because I wanted
(33:24):
to get the swim meets done sothat we weren't up there all
night and I did all that onebecause I love coaching.
Back to the mentoring and kindof teaching young people and
pulling people together andconnecting them and getting all
these families and stuff.
But I wanted to spend time withmy kids, you know, and I felt
that the more I could at leastcontrol the schedule when we
practiced, when the games were,I ended up being commissioner of
(33:46):
basketball league.
We could spend time togetherand what I didn't realize out of
coaching was that you know, I'dbe dealing with one situation
with eight-year-olds on abasketball floor and I'd be
dealing with one situation with30-year-olds in the business and
it was kind of the samesituation in some instances.
So I was really able to kind ofuse that.
That's kind of the way I thinkI'm always like take from here,
(34:07):
do this.
Oh, that was an interestingexperience.
How do I use that here?
And the coaching piece wasawesome for me, fully rewarding.
Just when you'd see these kidslight up, you know that they did
something that they didn'tthink they could do.
Or we won a game that theydidn't think they could win, or
or they built relationships towhere they were just all doing
their stuff, or they they get toa point where they practiced so
well that they didn't need tobe coached anymore.
(34:28):
Back to what a good mentorshould be, you know, teach you
how to mentor yourself and coachyourself.
That's been awesome.
There's huge family componentfor me.
We do a lot around sports, butit's more for the team part than
it was for the competition andget a scholarship kind of thing,
although my kids all hadchances and they all chose not
to, which is perfectly fine forme Cool.
Danny Gavin (34:47):
And what about running and exercise?
Bo Bothe (34:48):
I've always played sports, I've always done stuff.
I think, as a leader, you justneed to check out.
There are just moments whereyou need a clear check out.
Yeah, there are just momentswhere where you need to a clear
space on your own.
And I didn't get that inbasketball and then when I
turned 50, I had to stop playing, as COVID happened, and then,
you know, it was just kind oflike you know.
(35:10):
So now I do golf and whatnot,but I started running at 40 and
some of it was a physical outlet, but that quiet time of just
spending 30 minutes or an houreventually I ran a marathon with
my daughter and overcomingsomething, and now I have to ice
bath, you know.
So you know, but that quiet timeof just thinking or putting a
(35:30):
podcast in and going off andrunning or a book is really kind
of special to me, because I,when my kids we had four in the
house and business was going andstuff was happening and all
this other crazy stuff I do itwas really hard to get that time
other than the you know, theshower or the bathroom you know
it was like.
And so that run in the morningalmost became kind of a sacred
(35:51):
time for me, just because it wasquiet and there was nothing
else around and I could justreally get in my head and think
a little bit clearly.
And then I ran into the I don'tknow if you what's it called 20
, 20, 20, the 5am club.
It's a book that it kind ofbreaks up.
You know, you start the daywith 20 minutes of meditation,
20 minutes of exercise, 20minutes of learning.
I really try to style thosethings but I combine the running
(36:14):
and the learning and I'll gofor 40 minutes on that one.
Danny Gavin (36:18):
That's really really good advice.
And then, finally, you lovepodcasts and books Any podcasts
or books that you can recommendto the listeners.
Bo Bothe (36:25):
Great book right now, if you're really stressed out
about the world and the currentenvironment, is the Storm Before
the Calm.
It's an interesting discussionabout the overlap of changes in
culture, changes in economics,changes in politics.
It makes me feel a lot betterabout what's happening.
But I think about it in ourbusiness and, danny, you and I
(36:45):
were talking about AI and thechanges that are going to happen
through that.
It's just a different way ofthinking.
My portfolio is hand-painted.
I learned how to draw with abar of soap, a mouse, and
learned how to draw with thisthing and bent the computer and
technology to my will for alarge part of my career.
We're in that same phase, butit's coming at us faster and
(37:06):
that's a little intimidating.
On the podcast side, I'mlistening a lot right now
because I read a lot of books onfounding fathers and leaders
and different things.
The Musk book was amazing.
The Isaacson book all ofIsaacson's books are great.
But I'm listening to FoundersPodcast and it.
You know I can't remember hisname, but he reads a book and
then he gets all excited about,you know, whoever you know, and
(37:29):
it's incredible listening to it.
And the other one, how I Built.
This is another one that Ilistened to, you know, because,
as an entrepreneur, I juststayed in a I can't remember if
it was Founders or how I Builtthis.
I think it was how I Built thisI just stayed in a graduate
hotel.
The podcast talked to him abouthow he created that concept and
(37:49):
it was incredible, man, it wasso awesome and it's inspiring
because I'm having to reimaginethis business for today, and
it's interesting to listen tostuff about Sam Walton and
(38:10):
people you know dead or barelyalive that have done this kind
of thing and they're the thingsthat drove them, without
actually having to read thewhole book, the whole book, and
then also contrasting that withtoday.
You know, musk and founders andor, uh, and the kind of how I
built, this kind of stories thatit, that they that the
entrepreneur tells or that werewritten about the entrepreneur,
because it's it's a challengeright now, you know, managing
all these changes in in culture,managing the changes in work,
(38:34):
all that kind of stuff.
And so I've I into, rather thanconsuming big, long books, I'm
starting to do these podcasts.
The other one that is justcracking me up to no end is
Smartless, with Jason Batemanand Arnell and the guy from Will
Grace Sorry, that's going todate me too, sean, I can't
(38:55):
remember his name.
It is an absolute riot and it'sa great checkout and they've
got great guests.
So I'm always learning, alwaystrying to again.
It gives me more context, givesme more to talk about with
other people in the point whereI'm mentoring or working with
somebody it's not just me andold people books.
I'm trying to stay up to date alittle bit.
(39:16):
I've really enjoyed leaninginto those a lot.
The other one is the WallStreet Journal has got a great
little podcast.
It's called the Journal andit's little 20-minute snippets
of what's going on in the worldand I think they're super
unbiased and they're justthoughtful as heck and they're
really interesting because theyintroduce you to one little
(39:38):
thing like a like 60 minutesused to when I was a kid or that
kind of deal where it was like,oh, this is cool.
So anyway, I'm just alwayslearning and consuming but then
processing and trying to put itinto context for my family or
for work or, you know, my life.
Danny Gavin (39:52):
Well, your passion for growth and learning and
changing is really reallyawesome and inspiring.
Bo Bothe (39:57):
This is awesome.
Danny man, thank you.
I really am impressed with whatyou've built and what you're
doing and all the things, allthe people that you're impacting
through your teaching and thiskind of medium.
I know it's important to younot just to be producing but to
having an impact on others, andkudos to you, man.
I mean it's really amazing whatyou're doing and I know it's
hard to run the business teachin school and congratulations on
(40:20):
all your success to this pointand growing your family.
You should be pretty proud ofwhere you're at.
Danny Gavin (40:25):
Thanks Bo.
I really, really appreciate it.
Yeah, all right.
Thank you, listeners, fortuning into the Digital
Marketing Mentor.
We'll speak with you next time,thank you.
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor.
I'm your host, danny Gavin, andtogether with industry leaders
and marketing experts, we'llexplore the meeting point of
mentorship and marketing.
We'll discover how theseconnections have affected
careers, marketing strategiesand lives.
Now get ready to get human.
Hello, I'm Danny Gavin, founderof Optige, marketing Professor
(00:36):
and the host of the DigitalMarketing Mentor.
Now get ready to get human.
That provides strategicguidance, helping clients grow
their businesses throughdata-driven strategies, branding
, marketing and digital services.
Brand extract was named one ofthe fastest growing agencies by
adweek magazine in 2023.
Bo himself is a father, ahusband, a sports coach, a
passionate volunteer.
He's won numerous awards,namely the houston business
(00:59):
journal's inaugural 40 under 40,the rice jones school alumni
service and a bunch of others.
When he's not at home, workingor volunteering, he's a City of
Spring, texas council member,part of the Cream Jackson
Foundation, a board member ofthe Family Houston and San
Jacinto Museum of History.
He's also the founder of ESGReporting Partners and he's a
former contributor to the ForbesAgency Council.
(01:21):
That's a whole lot, but soimpressive.
How are you doing, beau?
Bo Bothe (01:25):
I'm good, I'm good.
Danny, how are you Embarrassingthere?
Kareem Jackson was traded, sothere's a different one there,
but it's all good.
Danny Gavin (01:37):
I'm glad you find a little bit of time for your
business, right.
Bo Bothe (01:39):
Yeah, just a tiny bit.
Danny Gavin (01:40):
Let's jump right in .
Where did you go to school andwhat did you study?
Bo Bothe (01:50):
I went to Texas Tech graphic designer by trade and
then did design work for yearsand then went back to Rice and
got my MBA at Jones School sothat I could have better
conversations with my clientsabout the stuff we were making,
and that turned into branding.
Danny Gavin (01:58):
Are there any experiences both inside and
outside the classroom that weremost impactful in directing your
path?
Bo Bothe (02:04):
So one I lucked or stumbled into a logic class.
I thought I was going to take aphilosophy class.
That was all about you know,the earth is some molecule in
your hand.
I thought it was going to bethat thing and it ends up being
you know, theorems and likeif-then statements and it was
basically a thinking class.
You know about building goodstatements and it was basically
(02:25):
a thinking class about buildinggood arguments and it was one of
the best experiences I ever had, on top of learning how to be a
designer and communicate withvisuals and elements and all
that kind of stuff and then spinthat into a career and then
into Rice.
Dwayne Windsor was justmentioned on LinkedIn this week.
He was one of my professors,leadership and ethics.
One of the most formativeconversations I had with my
(02:46):
classmates was he walked in theroom and he's like we were
watching 12 o'clock high I thinkit was the name of the movie
and you're trying to getsomebody to go bomb Japan and
nobody's going to come back.
And can you get anybody to comedo it?
And Dwayne walks in and he goesleaders, manipulate, go, and it
was just.
It was one of the mostincredible conversations about
(03:09):
just getting people to move andinspiring people for good and
bad and how do you use things.
And so those are some seminalkind of things that have
happened in my education on topof just technical learning that
really kind of stuck with mecommunication and leadership and
kind of making things go in theworld and in your life.
Danny Gavin (03:33):
I know these days there's some discussion around
is it worth getting an MBA.
So can you tell me a littleabout your MBA experience?
When you look back at was itworth it and also now, when
you're looking at hiring people,do you find that an MBA is
something that's of value?
Bo Bothe (03:47):
Kind of funny.
I'm a big dude.
I lack confidence a lot.
Historically I thought I wassmall but I was basically
playing basketball and footballin the land of giants all the
time, and six foot four is notthat big in that universe.
And so there are things thatI've historically thought, oh
well, I need this or I need thatto kind of be my shield of
(04:08):
armor.
And the MBA was one of those.
I was really able to kind oflean in and learn a language and
think of things differently.
The other side of that thenetwork that I got, the great
friends that I got out of it,the technical learning was
outstanding.
The professors were amazing.
The Rice Network, much like anygreat business school, is
incredible.
But at the end of the day I wastrying to build some confidence
(04:31):
.
I ended up with an incrediblenetwork of very thoughtful
people that will be with me formy lifetime.
And so the investment beyond theeducation piece because if it
were just the education, you'regetting the full-time MBA and
you're just learning how to do aspreadsheet that turns into
kind of a technical trade it upinto a job that pays me more.
That wasn't what I was lookingto do.
And this executive MBA.
(04:53):
Having 10 years of experienceand then getting into it was
just phenomenal.
So I think for listeners ifthey're considering an MBA, I'd
get a little bit of professionalexperience to have context into
how you want to apply thatbusiness knowledge.
But an MBA is also a great wayto change the game career-wise.
I thought it was great.
It was a lot of money.
It's a lot more money now after20 years.
(05:15):
So there's a little bit of anROI thing.
You got to really get into it.
Danny Gavin (05:19):
Do you look for master's degrees at all for the
people that you're hiring?
Not really.
Bo Bothe (05:24):
I think today it is I wouldn't say easy.
It shows commitment, but welook for hustle.
I barely look at resumesanymore.
I mean they can be so faked andthey are what they are.
And so we have a prettygrueling interview to where you
meet with a number of people inbig groups and small groups and
all that kind of stuff, just toget to where people can be
themselves to see whether theyfit us and we fit them.
(05:46):
But if somebody has an MBA orhas an advanced degree, it will
rise to the top to say, hey look, let's give this a look.
Danny Gavin (05:53):
So Beau.
How would you define a?
Bo Bothe (05:54):
mentor A guide.
I've had a number of mentors inmy life.
I work best with drillsergeants.
If I'm looking for a mentor,I'm looking for someone to tell
me what they think I should do,and I'm enough of a contrarian
to then choose not to do whatthey say, but because I know who
I am.
But I think a good mentor is aguide.
(06:16):
One of the things that I'velearned in my EO experiences and
in my group learningexperiences has been the idea of
gestalt.
A good mentor can bringexperiences to the table and not
really tell you what you haveto do, but can give you kind of.
In these situations this thinghappened.
It sounds a lot like what'sgoing on with you or just
somebody that can give you somecontext.
(06:36):
I'd put them in that kind ofguide, whether spiritual or
emotional kind of side of thingsor business standpoint.
Those are the kind of mentorsthat I do really well with.
There are ones that are kind ofwant to run alongside you or
walk behind you and let you kindof lead.
Danny Gavin (06:50):
But how does that balance with that drill sergeant
, because you mentioned at thebeginning, like I, like someone
who's a drill sergeant.
How does that match for someonewho's a guide, a leader?
Do you feel like you can findsomeone who has both?
Bo Bothe (06:59):
Yeah, I think so.
I think that there's a pointwhere when I'm working with a
mentor and I think my mentorstyle there's a point where the
mentee is typically trying toget over a hurdle.
They're usually trying to getover a hump.
I use the MBA to get me over ahump.
In my confidence, thedecision's not really that hard.
(07:19):
Mentoring someone like me whocan overthink, overthink,
overthink, there is a pointwhere somebody is going to need
to stand up and say, look, thisis not that big a deal, make a
decision.
The drill sergeant kind ofmentor works with me because
that level of confidence reallykind of has an impact on me
where someone more like supercontrarian would not like that
(07:40):
kind of role.
And so when you think about amentor, I think there's that
guide piece and then there arethese different personalities of
those.
There was an old HarvardBusiness Review, I think, or
Wall Street Journal article, Ican't remember which that kind
of broke mentors up into thesekind of four categories.
There's the wide sage, there'sthe drill sergeant, there's the
spiritual guide and then there'sthe psychologist, the one that
(08:03):
goes like what do you thinkabout that?
I never will give you an answer.
I think when people are workingwith mentors.
You may need a different one atdifferent times.
Danny Gavin (08:11):
Yeah, agreed.
I don't think there's oneperson who can be the mentor for
you throughout your whole lifein some ways right, you need
different people at differentpoints.
Bo Bothe (08:20):
Yeah, I mean, we'll talk about my dad incredible
mentor for me but there was apoint where I couldn't hear him.
I think we all get like that towhere it's okay, now it's time.
For me, it's just a normalgrowth thing.
Danny Gavin (08:35):
Let's actually talk about your dad.
Why do you put him as one ofyour most influential mentors?
Bo Bothe (08:39):
I can't remember if we talked about it when we got
together, but my father grew upincredibly poor.
He recreated himself, lied hisway in the Marine Corps.
When he was 17, found my mom atan embassy in Tokyo, japan.
She's from Pittsburgh, he'sfrom Texas City.
Decided that he was thinkingabout my mom and the family that
he was going to create with herin the foxhole while getting
(09:01):
shot at, so decided he didn'twant to be in the military
anymore, got in the carpetbusiness, recreated that whole
thing, grew the business, boughtit from my uncle and then lost
the business in the 80s, late80s, went bankrupt, restarted
selling insurance and got intofinancial planning and then
(09:21):
started a prison ministry andthen had a spiritual life as a
deacon.
And I mean mean there was justa constant I can always do it
with him and there was aconstant positive outlook in the
world.
When we would get up in themorning he would just be yelling
in the house I feel terrific, Ifeel outstanding.
It's going to be a great day,and a little bit of it was.
(09:43):
He was trying to convincehimself that it was going to be
a great day and it it a littlebit of it was.
He was trying to convincehimself that it was going to be
a great day, cause you canimagine all the stuff he's had
to deal with in his life.
He was relentless, he justnever stopped.
He never stopped being positive.
He never stopped believing andbeing strong in his faith.
He was always there for us.
From a family standpoint, hewas always there, just committed
to my mother.
They put each other's weddingrings on every time.
(10:06):
They'd take them off to work inthe yard or whatever.
They put them back on eachother's fingers.
From a business standpoint, froma life standpoint, from a
spiritual standpoint, he wasjust unconventional but rock
solid.
I get down and I get up, but Inever.
And I kind of have high highsand low lows.
The Italian in me lets it gosometimes, but I never.
And I kind of have high highsand low lows.
The Italian in me lets it gosometimes, but there's never
(10:28):
something I can't overcome.
And I think that was somethinghe taught me as my kind of
mentor in life.
And he picked graphic design.
We were driving up to tech andhe was like I don't think you
want to do advertising.
I think this design thing iswhat you want to do.
Because he's looking throughthe book he was just really
thoughtful and listened, superpersonal it's like a family kind
(10:50):
of thing and he just was man.
He had vision and insightfuland not like a normal dad story.
He could do anything.
But just watching thatexperience through my life and
thinking about his life, wherehe came from and what he did
incredible Forrest Gump.
Danny Gavin (11:08):
That's what he sounds like.
I get goosebumps.
Just you talking about him.
What a remarkable man really.
Bo Bothe (11:14):
Yeah, I was very blessed and very lucky to have
had him in my life.
There's a Jesuit prayer thatyou can do which is more of just
a meditation, and one of thethings is thank whatever the
metaphysical God or whatever itis you believe in, just give
thanks, and every time I thankman, thank God for my dad and my
(11:38):
mom, because I just I hit thefreaking jackpot with them.
I mean totally.
So that's a little.
It's a lot of why and I lookjust like him.
So it's a lot of why I am who Iam, except for he had a giant
head, like I would say that hehad a giant face and this really
tiny head, so none of his hatslike his cowboy hats and stuff
won't fit me.
That's the only differencebetween the two.
Danny Gavin (11:56):
So obviously he was someone that you looked up to
and you watched him and learnedfrom him.
How about conversations Likewhen you had a problem, were you
able to go to him, or maybewhen he noticed like something
was off, would he come to you?
How was that communicationbetween you two?
Bo Bothe (12:11):
Both, I think.
And back to your point about agood mentor, I think you know
good mentors should listen a lot, you know, rather than tell.
He was always, as a youngperson, he was always telling
you know, but there were pointswhere he could see I needed to
stop, and so he would hear inthese conversations things that
(12:36):
I would say and he'd pick up on,and it'd be that, back to the
gestalt thing you mean, likethis son, he'd clarify On the
other side of it, he passed awaytwo and a half years ago,
almost three years ago, and, man, I didn't realize how much we
didn't.
We probably saw each other onceor twice a month, maybe three
times, and as he got more andmore sick and more homebound, it
was harder for us, other thanme going to the house.
We used to go to breakfasttwice a week or do something.
I miss the little brief45-minute breakfast conversation
(12:59):
.
That was always reallythoughtful and it was about deep
things my relationship with mywife, his relationship with my
mom, our relationship with kids,his relationship with us,
business, politics, religion.
We talked about all that stuff.
Even when I was a little kidwe'd have these crazy
(13:25):
conversations about Democratsand Republicans and the world
leaders and what's going on.
I mean, what person, when theywere nine and eight and seven,
remembers Nixon and Watergateand Ford and Carter?
I mean, I remember it like itwas yesterday because we would
sit on the floor and we'd watchit.
We talked about everything.
Danny Gavin (13:42):
So let's talk about now who you mentor.
So you've mentioned, obviously,your employees, peers in the
industry like me, children andother people in different groups
.
What's your mentorship stylelike?
Bo Bothe (13:54):
I have to catch myself sometimes because I do
obviously like to talk.
My style is probably a lot moreget to know you personally, get
to know a person personally,understand the pressures and
vision they have for their life,the things that are pulling on
them.
Because it's easy if it's abusiness mentorship program,
it's a family membership,because we've done new couples
(14:16):
stuff with my wife at church andother things those situations
become it's all personal.
But then you have to pull thebusiness stuff in and in some
cases it's supposed to be allbusiness.
But humans aren't automatons.
They have a lot of pressuresand things that are going on at
different times in their livesand so I like to, either, if
(14:36):
it's a personal one, I like tookay what outside factors are
affecting personally.
If it's a young person, thatdoesn't have any context, I try
and get them to understandwhat's your vision for life,
what do you see yourself?
As I think so many people don'tthink about that.
They think about the moment andwhat they want to get out of it
, but they don't think 20 years,10 years, 20, 30 years, down
(14:59):
the road and go I want to have afamily someday, or I'll never
have a family, or I, you knowwhatever, and how does that?
The experience is built to thatvision of what you've got.
And on the business side I tryand dig in personally at first.
You know to understand on ahuman level.
You know how do people makedecisions, what was their life
like, who influenced them andall that.
And then I shut up and say,okay, what is the stuff that you
(15:21):
got to you want to deal with?
I try and let anybody I'mmentoring with or it's a kid
that has no context, you know,or adult that's been doing it
forever the room to really kindof think through what they need
to get to grow, because thatshould be any kind of mentor
should be kind of bump upagainst that friend,
understanding, advisor, wise,guide kind of thing, but also be
(15:44):
personal enough to where youcan understand all the variables
in the conversation or thedrivers that are kind of making
people think a certain way.
Danny Gavin (15:51):
Earlier you mentioned the Gestalt theory.
Do you want to expand on that?
Explain to the listeners whatthat is and how you use it?
Bo Bothe (15:58):
Yeah.
So on the design side, gestaltis just like you know how it all
kind of works together.
Everything works together,which many people, especially in
design today, kind of mess thatup.
But on this side of stuff, theidea of letting someone come to
their conclusion without telling, and so there's always the idea
of, okay, what's the problem?
We're trying to solve?
Clarifying the question,clarifying questions, what do
(16:23):
you see?
All the kind of drawing out andthen letting someone come to
their own solution that's atleast the experience we had
through EO rather than thetelling piece that said, someone
like me at some point is goingto go look man, just tell me
what to do.
I think I know what I need tobe doing, but what do I need to
do?
So I kind of sometimes throwGestalt out the window.
Danny Gavin (16:45):
It's hard especially both you and I to
talk and give our ideas.
It requires so muchself-control Just like hold back
, like I just want to saysomething.
Bo Bothe (16:54):
If I pray for anything , it's patience.
To shut up sometimes and listen.
I would say that's one of myAchilles heels.
I can sometimes get excited,and it's not to hear myself talk
.
I get excited about a thing andthe other problem I have.
This is what happened in mybusiness school.
There was one moment where,like one of the girls who's very
(17:15):
analytical, michelle, she stoodup in front of me one time as I
was explaining and I'm notgetting any feedback.
And so sometimes, danny, if Idon't get feedback, I'll lean in
and I'll just keep talkinguntil I get enough.
And poor Michelle stood up I'mexplaining an answer and she
stood up, turned around, lookedat me and she's like Bo, stop
talking, what's your point?
(17:35):
I was like this is in front ofmy whole cohort and I was like
it was one of the best learningexperiences on top of those
learning experiences you'retalking about.
It's like man, collect yourthoughts and make your point and
don't worry about the feedback,because that's always been a
challenge for me.
It's not just liking to talk,it's sometimes, oh man, maybe
I'm not getting across, and ifI'm getting no feedback, it
(17:56):
causes problems.
Danny Gavin (17:58):
A similar point.
But I often tell my childrenthat kind of like when they're
rambling, it's like, hey, juststop a second, it's okay to be
quiet.
Think through first what youwant to say and then give it
over.
Bo Bothe (18:08):
And I think in a busy world it gets harder to let
white space happen.
You know the ums and the uhsand all that kind of stuff.
There's one out there.
We want to fill the space andwhen you're in a mentoring
relationship, if you're thinkingabout it right, you want to
(18:29):
give something of value andsometimes it comes out as words,
and sometimes to your point itneeds to just be quiet.
Danny Gavin (18:32):
Yeah, leaning into the white space.
So let's pivot a little bit.
So what got me really excitedand why?
Besides, just in general, howmuch I like you and look up to
you.
You put out a blog postrecently, the article called
Mentorship and Growth and HybridWork Model a CEO Perspective,
and obviously I have thementorship podcast.
So when I saw an article onmentorship, like oh my gosh, I
(18:54):
have to have Bo on.
Recently, you posted onLinkedIn that you have a
love-hate relationship withremote work.
Can you explain what you mean?
Bo Bothe (19:01):
Yeah, I think that one of the challenges that I have
had.
I am, by nature, an extrovert.
I get energy in the biologic orphysical sense.
I get energy from being aroundpeople.
And back to that feedback thingwe were talking about.
We've wandered the wildernessnow for four years, almost four.
(19:25):
Has it been four?
It's been four years when we'vebeen mostly hybrid and mostly
remote and a person like me thatis trying to build an amazing
business.
I don't want to just have abusiness, I want to be
extraordinary and unique, andextraordinary in the dictionary
sense of those words.
It's hard to get there when youdon't see anybody.
(19:47):
It's hard to be motivated whenyou're like me.
And so I've spent this lastfour years listening to my team
and talking about things andlooking at data and all this
kind of stuff, and I'm realizingat least for me and I had to
check myself a lot in this, youknow, like am I thinking this?
Just because it's what I want towill to happen and what I was
noticing with my guys and whatprompted me to kind of write
(20:10):
this article and go on thislittle odyssey that I'm on right
now, is that we're not growingthe way we need to grow.
Now that doesn't mean we haveto sit next to each other all
the time, but the reality isit's really hard, the extra
effort it takes to be completelyremote and still share a common
bond across different peoplethat learn different ways, doing
(20:33):
different things.
You know, with an organizationthat got to be 65 people or 50,
yeah, 60, yeah, 65 people, it'sbananas, I mean.
It's just, it's hard and itdoesn't make it right, wrong,
good or bad.
That's what I was trying to inthe article, you know.
But we set up just recentlyCynthia Sipach youach, our
director of brand experience,managing director of brand
(20:55):
experience, just set up a reallyintense mentorship program so
that we can kind of combine someof this.
So that was a little bit ofthat's what's been going on.
That's why I wrote the articleand kind of looked at it because
I was missing out.
But then I think my team wasmissing out, we weren't growing
the way we should have grown,being completely remote like we
were.
Danny Gavin (21:14):
So tell me a little bit about the hybrid model that
you're currently going through.
I don't know if I told you thestory, but a month or two before
COVID hit, one of my keyemployees came into my office
and she said hey, danny, I'mmoving to Montana.
And she got really sad, she wascrying, and I was like, ooh, um
, how about you work remotely?
(21:35):
And she was like I couldn'tbelieve, like I can't believe,
actually said that.
So yeah, let's talk about it.
So we spoke about it and thenright away I remember messaging
like a whole bunch of people Ithink Terry Hoffman as well.
I was like how do you manageremote people?
Like can it, can this besuccessful?
And like I ended up buying oneof the owl cameras I know you
have one of the owls and like,and I found it hard, I found it
(21:57):
hard to have some people on Zoomand some people in the room and
for me it was really like it'sjust easier for it to be one or
the other.
So tell me about what doeshybrid mean to you and how do
you deal with kind of that issueof not having you know either
extreme, but kind of have todeal with both?
Bo Bothe (22:15):
Yeah, I think we're trying to perfect it.
We were completely out of theoffice with some optionality to
come in.
And then, I think year two, wesaid, look two days a week, but
they can be whenever.
And then we said look one day aweek with your team.
And, hey, leaders, bedeliberate about which teams
(22:35):
overlap, and one day a week,potluck so you can meet.
You can bump into some otherpeople.
Then we said, hey, leaders, bedeliberate about which teams
overlap, and one day a week,potluck so you can bump into
some other people.
Then we said, hey, look,certain functions need to be in
here three days a week, certainfunctions need to.
And the team embraced it.
And then, most recently, becauseI've told you about flagging
business and things going on andour clients being semi-remote
(22:56):
and really distracted, I thought, look, we need to get together
and be here.
So right now, everybody's inthe office four days a week and
I've horribly disrupted my teamand their lives.
It is with great intention andit is a 90-day sprint and we're
looking at it.
So, danny, we've run all ofthese different things to get to
(23:16):
kind of what's going to workand we've instituted all these
different tools.
We got mural boards and weleaned into Zoom and we don't
have office phones anymore andwe joke around in here.
But every natural disaster wasone way to untether and then it
became a complete.
This one became a way tocompletely untether.
But we always had a kind offreedom of work, like if you
(23:38):
needed to stay home and work, wewere always okay with it.
It was never a problem, unlessyou had to collaborate with a
team or go meet a client.
It was like, hey, man, I needfocus time, I'm going to stay
home and, with a lot of trust,we don't count full PTO days,
but we don't count doctor'svisits, we don't count going to
coach your kids and picking themup from school or any of that
(23:58):
kind of stuff.
So we've always had thistendency of freedom of work.
But when it becomes like a, whenit became kind of a rule or a
like a like like this is whatwe're going to do, it got really
weird.
I mean it got really strange.
People felt constrained or theyfelt so much freedom that they.
I mean it got really strange.
People felt constrained or theyfelt so much freedom that they
(24:19):
couldn't manage themselves.
There are not a lot of people,I'll be honest.
Not a lot of people have thediscipline to work at home
efficiently and effectively anddo the extra work it takes to
build relationships that we wantto have in our organization so
that we're kind of fully inmotion.
It's been a pretty wild ride,but that's the we're right now
(24:40):
four days a week.
I'm not going to tell you whatI think we're going to land on
because everybody, if anybodylistens to this, they'll be like
oh my God, beau made a promise.
But we're trying to figure itout, you know, because there are
some roles that really can beheads down.
What we did learn, back to thementoring piece, is if you're
going to be at home 100% of thetime doing work and just being
efficient, it's going to bereally hard.
It's harder for someone likethat in that role to really
(25:04):
start to grow in their abilityto lead an organization or
collaborate or lead a team Nottechnically lead a team, but
mentoring and growing the peoplearound them and all that kind
of stuff.
It can be done.
It just makes it morecomplicated.
And answer but people didn'twant to disrupt somebody and all
(25:43):
of a sudden a project thatcouldn't move forward for two
days because they couldn't find20 minutes on your calendar.
It was causing a lot ofinefficiencies too.
Danny Gavin (25:50):
Did you try to set up a mentorship structure or
program in the hybrid remotesense?
Bo Bothe (25:57):
Yeah, structure or program in the hybrid remote
sense.
Yeah, it actually been aboutsix months in the making and
we're rolling it out now, eventhough we're going to bring it
back.
But we were doing it informally.
We use EOS, so there was a lotof check-ins, a lot of talkings,
but it was all mentorshipwithin groups and it was all
kind of the formal check-ins,monthly check-ins with key
(26:19):
people that really helped us.
But there are some people herethat want to grow but they're
not as visible all the timebecause they're out of the
office or they're doingsomething and you know.
So I've got two formal mentors.
Now We've got a worksheet andthis whole system that Cynthia
set up that we're going to do.
That should have happened twoyears ago.
Where we dropped the ball, thatshould have happened two, three
(26:42):
years ago.
We should have seen that.
That's one of the again driversfor this article was that we
saw that in our EOS platform wemade it a rock.
It's been a six-month kind ofokay, define a program that
works right, what's the burden,how many people?
All that kind of stuff.
And that mentorship beyond acheck-in is really focused on
helping people grow in theircareers and some of them are
(27:04):
kind of family questions toothat they're asking.
Danny Gavin (27:06):
So I think you're lucky in the sense that and
correct me if I'm wrong thatmost of your employees are in
Houston and therefore for you tocome back in the office.
It wasn't like suddenly, overthe past four years, you hired
someone in Denver and in NewYork and in Canada.
I guess for some people to gofrom remote back to an office
could be pretty complicated.
So for those people who have towork on a remote or hybrid
(27:29):
model, at least for now, whatadvice would you give to them
for interacting with people,setting up that mentorship
program?
Bo Bothe (27:36):
So in clarification, so we're 15% remote.
We've got two teammates inArizona, one in Boston, one in
Pittsburgh, one in Chicago andwe've had more.
You know, with our kind oflayoffs earlier in the year we,
you know, we had a handful more.
And then we have a couple herethat have like drive-in from
(27:56):
Waller.
So you know it's an hour and ahalf, you know.
So we have people that are notremote but they would be much
less inconvenienced if they wereremote.
And then we got the other 80percent, you know are local
enough to where it's nothorrible to come in.
We've had to really lean intocheck ins and different pieces
that way, really lean intocheck-ins and different pieces.
That way, if I were a remoteemployee right now, I do a thing
(28:20):
a breakfast with Bo and I doone at Slow Pokes over here
around the corner for peoplethat are local, and then an hour
later I do an online breakfastwith Bo, because some people are
in their West Coast time andother East Coast time, so I got
to do it at 11 or 10.
So I don't affect a lunch, butI don't get somebody up early,
too early From a leadershipstandpoint.
(28:40):
That's just a general mentoring.
You know where we just talkabout what's going on in the
business, what's going on in theindustry, what's going on in
their lives, you know, and howwe could be better, or what's
going with any questions theyhave.
And we talked politics the lasttime and how the election was
going to affect the business,because those are things that
(29:01):
are on top of mind internally.
So if I were for somebodyoutside the office, I'd pick a
mentor.
I just like, I was like kind ofguy, so I just say hey, you
know, Jimmy or Sue, you know,let's get together.
And you know, do you mindgiving me 30 minutes a month?
There I can kind of pick yourbrain and talk to you about
stuff.
And, quite frankly, many peoplewant to do that.
They want to connect on a humanlevel.
That's something I wish some ofour remote people would have
(29:23):
done, you know, and we encourageit.
But now that we have thisformal program they can kind of
lean into it pretty easy.
Organizations really need to.
If you're going to be remote, asignificant amount of time
you've got to put these thingsin place so that you can keep
some cultural connection, so itdoesn't turn into a
(29:44):
transactional relationship withyour employees where they're
just working, because the minutethey get more money they're
going to be gone?
Danny Gavin (29:51):
Did you hire remotely before 2020?
No, the two.
Bo Bothe (29:56):
We freelanced remotely , but the two people that were
remote were moved by theirhusband, their spouses, you know
, and we just we loved them somuch that we just went, like you
, Danny, we wanted to keep themand we were able to make.
We had, you know, our test casewith a woman.
In went to East Texas and she'sa huge part of our company for
a long period of time.
And then you know, our digitalmarketing manager's in Boston
(30:19):
because he married aMassachusetts girl and she found
a great job up there that fither better, because Houston's
just weird, it's where shecouldn't get into what she
wanted to, and so she went upthere, Cage and Chris followed
her up there.
Danny Gavin (30:36):
He's freezing 10 months of the year, his loss.
So with 20% remote, 80% office,have you had any complaints in
general of like factions, or hey, I'm missing out, I don't feel
like.
Do people speak up about thatat all?
Bo Bothe (30:49):
A little Our culture has been.
I mean, it's been a rough year,so our culture has taken a big
hit.
But, man, people here havealways been really helpful and
really kind and reallyopen-minded.
And that extends then to theremote team, and while there is
some disconnect and we don't getto see them at happy hours and
(31:11):
stuff like that, there is also awillingness to reach out, and
so some of the people are remoteor resource management, or
they're on the digital marketingteam or they're, and so they're
they're called in all the timeto discussions and conversations
.
That one of the reasons I set upthe breakfast, though every two
weeks, was because they werefeeling a little bit like we're
(31:32):
bringing everybody back to theoffice.
And the thing that I didn'trealize was like they freaked
out.
They're like, yeah, oh, you'rebringing everybody in the office
.
And the thing that I didn'trealize was like they freaked
out.
They're like, yeah, oh, you'rebringing everybody in the office
, you know.
And back to me, being a goodleader and mentor of my business
, I had to like, oh wait, okay,I heard this one thing that
makes complete sense.
Let's have this breakfast andthey can clarify things.
And then I also talked to myleaders about making sure, but
(31:54):
again, with EOS and L10s and theweekly check-ins and all that
kind of stuff, man, there are alot of excuses to pull in remote
workers and people that aren'tin the same proximity, and
that's been really helpful.
Danny Gavin (32:09):
But it does show you that you do have to be
intentional about it, right?
Because?
If you're just working in theoffice and do everything you
need.
You could potentially forget,but if that's why you need those
systems and processes, officeand do everything, you need.
Bo Bothe (32:18):
You could potentially forget, but if that's why you
need those systems and processes, I mean and being fair, I'll
stumble over names I mean, therewas a point where, when I
wasn't doing these breakfasts, Iwas getting to a point where I
was like, oh man, I don't seeDinesh.
I mean, who's that?
And I'm old, so I startforgetting things and I'm like,
wait a minute, I need to meetwith these people more often
because it's not the kind ofrelationship I want.
(32:38):
And so to your point, you haveto be really deliberate and
thoughtful.
Danny Gavin (32:42):
All right, we are going to move to our top three.
So three things that you'vementioned that are really
important to you is family andcoaching, running an exercise
and consuming tons of podcasts.
Would love to know yourfavorite experience, or, just in
general, what you like, withregards to that category.
So let's start with family andcoaching.
Bo Bothe (33:02):
On the family and coaching piece.
It was kind of funny.
You were reading off all thatstuff.
So when I got my MBA, we hadtwo kids.
I'd quit my job.
I left my partnership, I wasstarting my own business.
I was AIGA co-president so Iwould only do it with a co
because it was like man, I gottoo much going on and I coached
every team.
I was actually a starter forthe swim team because I wanted
(33:24):
to get the swim meets done sothat we weren't up there all
night and I did all that onebecause I love coaching.
Back to the mentoring and kindof teaching young people and
pulling people together andconnecting them and getting all
these families and stuff.
But I wanted to spend time withmy kids, you know, and I felt
that the more I could at leastcontrol the schedule when we
practiced, when the games were,I ended up being commissioner of
(33:46):
basketball league.
We could spend time togetherand what I didn't realize out of
coaching was that you know, I'dbe dealing with one situation
with eight-year-olds on abasketball floor and I'd be
dealing with one situation with30-year-olds in the business and
it was kind of the samesituation in some instances.
So I was really able to kind ofuse that.
That's kind of the way I thinkI'm always like take from here,
(34:07):
do this.
Oh, that was an interestingexperience.
How do I use that here?
And the coaching piece wasawesome for me, fully rewarding.
Just when you'd see these kidslight up, you know that they did
something that they didn'tthink they could do.
Or we won a game that theydidn't think they could win, or
or they built relationships towhere they were just all doing
their stuff, or they they get toa point where they practiced so
well that they didn't need tobe coached anymore.
(34:28):
Back to what a good mentorshould be, you know, teach you
how to mentor yourself and coachyourself.
That's been awesome.
There's huge family componentfor me.
We do a lot around sports, butit's more for the team part than
it was for the competition andget a scholarship kind of thing,
although my kids all hadchances and they all chose not
to, which is perfectly fine forme Cool.
Danny Gavin (34:47):
And what about running and exercise?
Bo Bothe (34:48):
I've always played sports, I've always done stuff.
I think, as a leader, you justneed to check out.
There are just moments whereyou need a clear check out.
Yeah, there are just momentswhere where you need to a clear
space on your own.
And I didn't get that inbasketball and then when I
turned 50, I had to stop playing, as COVID happened, and then,
you know, it was just kind oflike you know.
(35:10):
So now I do golf and whatnot,but I started running at 40 and
some of it was a physical outlet, but that quiet time of just
spending 30 minutes or an houreventually I ran a marathon with
my daughter and overcomingsomething, and now I have to ice
bath, you know.
So you know, but that quiet timeof just thinking or putting a
(35:30):
podcast in and going off andrunning or a book is really kind
of special to me, because I,when my kids we had four in the
house and business was going andstuff was happening and all
this other crazy stuff I do itwas really hard to get that time
other than the you know, theshower or the bathroom you know
it was like.
And so that run in the morningalmost became kind of a sacred
(35:51):
time for me, just because it wasquiet and there was nothing
else around and I could justreally get in my head and think
a little bit clearly.
And then I ran into the I don'tknow if you what's it called 20
, 20, 20, the 5am club.
It's a book that it kind ofbreaks up.
You know, you start the daywith 20 minutes of meditation,
20 minutes of exercise, 20minutes of learning.
I really try to style thosethings but I combine the running
(36:14):
and the learning and I'll gofor 40 minutes on that one.
Danny Gavin (36:18):
That's really really good advice.
And then, finally, you lovepodcasts and books Any podcasts
or books that you can recommendto the listeners.
Bo Bothe (36:25):
Great book right now, if you're really stressed out
about the world and the currentenvironment, is the Storm Before
the Calm.
It's an interesting discussionabout the overlap of changes in
culture, changes in economics,changes in politics.
It makes me feel a lot betterabout what's happening.
But I think about it in ourbusiness and, danny, you and I
(36:45):
were talking about AI and thechanges that are going to happen
through that.
It's just a different way ofthinking.
My portfolio is hand-painted.
I learned how to draw with abar of soap, a mouse, and
learned how to draw with thisthing and bent the computer and
technology to my will for alarge part of my career.
We're in that same phase, butit's coming at us faster and
(37:06):
that's a little intimidating.
On the podcast side, I'mlistening a lot right now
because I read a lot of books onfounding fathers and leaders
and different things.
The Musk book was amazing.
The Isaacson book all ofIsaacson's books are great.
But I'm listening to FoundersPodcast and it.
You know I can't remember hisname, but he reads a book and
then he gets all excited about,you know, whoever you know, and
(37:29):
it's incredible listening to it.
And the other one, how I Built.
This is another one that Ilistened to, you know, because,
as an entrepreneur, I juststayed in a I can't remember if
it was Founders or how I Builtthis.
I think it was how I Built thisI just stayed in a graduate
hotel.
The podcast talked to him abouthow he created that concept and
(37:49):
it was incredible, man, it wasso awesome and it's inspiring
because I'm having to reimaginethis business for today, and
it's interesting to listen tostuff about Sam Walton and
(38:10):
people you know dead or barelyalive that have done this kind
of thing and they're the thingsthat drove them, without
actually having to read thewhole book, the whole book, and
then also contrasting that withtoday.
You know, musk and founders andor, uh, and the kind of how I
built, this kind of stories thatit, that they that the
entrepreneur tells or that werewritten about the entrepreneur,
because it's it's a challengeright now, you know, managing
all these changes in in culture,managing the changes in work,
(38:34):
all that kind of stuff.
And so I've I into, rather thanconsuming big, long books, I'm
starting to do these podcasts.
The other one that is justcracking me up to no end is
Smartless, with Jason Batemanand Arnell and the guy from Will
Grace Sorry, that's going todate me too, sean, I can't
(38:55):
remember his name.
It is an absolute riot and it'sa great checkout and they've
got great guests.
So I'm always learning, alwaystrying to again.
It gives me more context, givesme more to talk about with
other people in the point whereI'm mentoring or working with
somebody it's not just me andold people books.
I'm trying to stay up to date alittle bit.
(39:16):
I've really enjoyed leaninginto those a lot.
The other one is the WallStreet Journal has got a great
little podcast.
It's called the Journal andit's little 20-minute snippets
of what's going on in the worldand I think they're super
unbiased and they're justthoughtful as heck and they're
really interesting because theyintroduce you to one little
(39:38):
thing like a like 60 minutesused to when I was a kid or that
kind of deal where it was like,oh, this is cool.
So anyway, I'm just alwayslearning and consuming but then
processing and trying to put itinto context for my family or
for work or, you know, my life.
Danny Gavin (39:52):
Well, your passion for growth and learning and
changing is really reallyawesome and inspiring.
Bo Bothe (39:57):
This is awesome.
Danny man, thank you.
I really am impressed with whatyou've built and what you're
doing and all the things, allthe people that you're impacting
through your teaching and thiskind of medium.
I know it's important to younot just to be producing but to
having an impact on others, andkudos to you, man.
I mean it's really amazing whatyou're doing and I know it's
hard to run the business teachin school and congratulations on
(40:20):
all your success to this pointand growing your family.
You should be pretty proud ofwhere you're at.
Danny Gavin (40:25):
Thanks Bo.
I really, really appreciate it.
Yeah, all right.
Thank you, listeners, fortuning into the Digital
Marketing Mentor.
We'll speak with you next time,thank you.
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