079: From Microsoft to Mentorship: Jeremiah Andrick’s Journey of Lifelong Learning

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danny Gavin (00:05):
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor.
I'm your host, danny Gavin, and, together with industry leaders
and marketing experts, we'llexplore the meeting point of
mentorship and marketing.
We'll discover how theseconnections have affected
careers, marketing strategiesand lives.
Now get ready to get human.
Get ready to get human mice andsoftware.

(00:41):
Jeremiah has almost two decadesof digital marketing experience
.
He started his career withMicrosoft in 2007 as a webmaster
and tool developer and hassince worked with other big
names, including Logitech, htcVive and VCIS Inc.
He's now at SteelSeries.
He's also a passionatevolunteer and mentor.
Jeremiah is currentlyvolunteering with Seattle
Startup Drinks and the Boys andGirls Club of King County.

(01:02):
Today, we're going to talkabout a bunch of different
topics, from mentorship,building teams, lifelong
learning and so much more.
How are you doing, jeremiah?

Jeremiah Andrick (01:10):
I'm doing well.

Thank you.
So I know I give you like anofficial intro, but now I want
to give the unofficial intro.
So let's go back 10, 15 years.
Danny Gavin's like this25-year-old marketer, you know,
doesn't really go to a lot ofconferences.
There's this one really coolconference in Houston, texas,
put on by the I think it wasHIMA and you know we were lucky
to get like people, speakers allaround the country to come in,

(01:34):
which was really awesome.
And here's this really coolredhead guy, jeremiah Andrick.
He comes in, his presentingstyle is so different than
everyone else and he's reallycool and it's like man.
I just wish I could sit next tohim during lunch so I could
talk with him.
And I actually got to do thatand got to have like this little
rapport.
And you know, sometimes thepeople on the stage are like
kind of untouchable, butJeremiah was just so cool and so

(01:57):
inspirational and he's someonethat I've watched and followed
for years, so it's a big deal tohave him on here today, so
welcome.

Well, thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
I'm glad to be here.
I remember, I'll tell you, Iremember that conference really
well because I got to experimenta lot too and people were so
generous and I went I think Ispoke like four years in a row
there, which was pretty cool,getting invited Houston's so hot
, even in February, and I wasalways just like as long as I
could stay in the conferencerooms February, and I was always

(02:26):
just like as long as I couldstay in the conference rooms.

I was fine, so I love it there, though People
were so great.
Yeah, good times, let's startoff?

Where did you go to school and what did you
study?
Actually, you know, my collegeeducation was a little strange
because I got out of high schooland I didn't really know where
I wanted to go and originallyI'd gotten accepted at Baylor
and Laterno in Texas, both ofthose schools.
I grew up in North Dakota.
I also looked at University ofNorth Dakota and I had a great
uncle who, at the funeral of agreat aunt, was the head of the

(02:53):
church that I grew up in.
He said to me all those placessound really nice, but it'd be
really great if you went toEvangel University in
Springfield, missouri next yearand I was like, okay, I was
pretty malleable.
I'm like I guess I'll go there.
And in spite of not having anyscholarships or anything, I
dropped everything, changed myplans and went to Evangel

(03:14):
University in Springfield,missouri.
Sight unseen, I had seen allthe other schools and I had
scholarships and I just droppedeverything and went and it's a
liberal arts private college.
They have about 1600 studentsthere.
It was a pretty good experiencefor me overall, other than the
fact that it's related to theAssemblies of God church and

(03:36):
even though I grew up in thatchurch, my parents were liberal
in some unique ways, I would say.
They were very much like you'vegot to sort out religion stuff
for yourself and encouraged usto embrace religion.
But it was still one of thosethings you have to sort out on
your own and to go to areligious institution.
I was very much in cultureshock.
I did not fit in.
I grew up joking like you don'tdrink, you don't dance and you

(03:59):
don't go with girls who do kindof thing, and I was at this
school where people really livedthing and I was like at this
school where people really livedthat and I was like I drink, I
dance and I go with girls who dokind of thing.
So I didn't fit in very well.
I lasted about a year and ahalf there and then transferred
to Southwest Missouri State,which is now Missouri State
University, and I was reallyonly there for a year.

(04:20):
I studied computer science andjournalism.
In both schools I had a doublemajor.
I ended up switching my majormidstream to communication
theory, which ultimately wasmuch more beneficial to my
computer science engineeringexperience.
But I actually ended updropping out my third year to go
work on a startup.
There was a little startup intown working on building media

(04:42):
properties for food service andfor ad clients.
It was the time I think it wasnumber 11 in promo, number 75 in
ad week in terms of totalcapitalized billings, an agency
called Noble and Associates.
Through mergers andacquisitions now they don't
actually exist anymore, but Iworked on Tyson Chicken's first
website and French's Mustard'sfirst website and I was 17 years

(05:04):
old, you know, 18 years oldwhen I kind of got interested in
all of that and so I droppedout of college at 1920, go work
for them full time.
You know I'm living the dot comdream a little bit and it really
wasn't until I've been atMicrosoft three years before I
finished my college degree and Ikept working on it.
My mom really wanted me tofinish.

(05:25):
It was a big thing for her justto have it.
You know, even though by thatpoint I have this kind of fully
developed career, I'm in a placethat's going to, you know, add
all this additional educationalvalue to me.
But in studying communicationtheory I think one of the things
that really excited me about itis I got to understand both how
people engage with differentsystems of media and the history

(05:47):
of that and the psychologybehind it, and really became a
student of the psychology ofbehaviors in engaging with new
technology and how we learn andhow we engage them, and my
degree is a Bachelor of Science.
So a lot of times I have toclarify to people like I didn't
get it Not that there's anythingwrong with a BA in
communications, but that oftenleads to, like PR careers and
things like that, not a bad feel.

(06:08):
On the science side, I was moreinterested in how do people
discover stuff, how do they findinformation, and I think you
see that a lot in my talks thatI used to give when I would go
speaking more regularly is likehow do these patterns play out
in the way people communicate?
And so that's really where Ibegan.
It was kind of a tumultuousride for a while.
There I definitely lived that90s dream of not really knowing

(06:31):
what I was going to do andflipping around a lot for that
brief period.

And were your parents supportive during that
time?
Or was like oh my gosh, what'sGermany doing?

I think my mom was worried but she trusted
me.
I think she knew that I had areally strong work ethic.
I worked at nights at a littleprint shop to pay for my basic
needs, you know, covering myrent I did.
You know, key lining and pagelayout and typesetting I mean
old school typesetting.
I worked at an old school printshop.
We did some things digitally.

(06:59):
But you know, I think I'dproved to her like I had a
pretty strong work ethic.
As a kid I ran the singlescreen movie theater on the
weekends and also worked as aCNA.
So I think she already kind ofknew like I was a hustler.
I was going to do what it takesto pay the bills.
But coming from a family mygrandfather's first generation
in the US, my mom's dad and wehad kind of an immigrant

(07:21):
mentality of you work and youput in the work.
I was never not reminded thatand as long as I kind of showed
that hustle she didn't reallycare.
But there was an expectationthat education was a game
changer.
My sister is a collegeprofessor, my brother works in
academia on the institutionalside.

(07:41):
I think there's a strong beliefin our family and even now I
still strongly believe inacademics.
I'm just riddled with ADHD andwasn't really good at being in a
classroom.
The classroom wasn't designedfor people like me.
Her encouragement was reallymore in find something you love
and go and dig into it.
I was really grateful that Ihad somebody who was that

(08:04):
supportive of me, sort ofseeking out my passion and my
path.

You know it sounds like you had a really good
support system.

Yeah, particularly from my mom.
You know my parents split upwhen we were I was probably 12
or 13.
They ran restaurants in NorthDakota and were very
entrepreneurial themselves.
But I was lucky to havesomebody who wanted me to go
chase my own dreams and not beheld back by other people.
You know, or like how thingsmust work, you know.

(08:32):
But she still wanted me tofinish that degree.
You know she wanted that paper.

So and you did it, so it all worked out.

No, it did work out in the end.
That's the main thing.

So, jeremiah, how would you define a mentor?

I think to me , a mentor is about investment
Throughout your career, in yourlife.
I think a lot of us have peoplewho want to invest in us or who
are willing to invest in us,and I think there's a great
mentor, somebody who reallyspends a lot of time investing
in one or another person, whosees that they have something

(09:03):
they can pour into other people.
And you know, a great mentordoes it not for glory or for ego
, but actually to sharpen theirown skills, to refine their
ideas.
I think the world is a bit of alaboratory for all of us and
our own notions of things arereally tested when we have to
take them outside of our owncircle of control and influence

(09:27):
that's us and then we have toapply it somewhere else.
And when you're helping andtrying to encourage other people
, you know, then you really haveto test it.
And being a mentor or being acoach to other people for some
people feels like thissupernatural thing, but I think
the best ones it's not natural,it's uncomfortable, it's putting
yourself out there in a waythat I don't want my ideas to be

(09:49):
super tested, because what ifI'm wrong?
You know, what if I guide thisperson the wrong way and you
really can't be afraid of that.
A great mentor is the kind ofperson who does it for the love
of the other person and thedesire to see the world better.
I'm generally of the view thatwe should leave the world, in
whatever way you face it, betterthan when you came into a place

(10:11):
.
If a room is untidy and youleave that room if you haven't
tidied it up a little bit as youleave, you're probably not
maybe the right person to be amentor.
You want to see the world in aplace that there's things that
you can contribute back into,and so when I, when I invest
both myself and people, but inthe people who invested in me,
they've been the kind of peoplewho wanted to see the world

(10:33):
better, and we're good at at athelping with that, I think, in
so many ways.

So I think I've mentioned this on the podcast
before, but you just spoke aboutbeing like at a religious
college.
But it's interesting, inrabbinical school, both even in
like high school and secondary,the learning style is in Hebrew
it's called chavrusa, whichmeans sort of partnership, and
actually most of the learninghappens where you're sitting at
a table across from someone elseand there's a lot of back and

(11:00):
forth of teaching and learningand part of the reason to do
that is like exactly what you'resaying, like through teaching
someone else something that'sactually how you're going to
learn it better.
Just, you mentioned beforewhich is a concept which I don't
think I've heard in 75 or soepisodes, but that idea of that
it doesn't mean that thementor's doing it because

(11:21):
they're thinking, oh, I'm goingto get something out of it, but
truthfully, by them, like yousaid, helping someone out,
testing their ideas, they'reactually going to grow and gain
more.
That just kind of you know.
That brings me to it.

I think the scriptures talk about iron,
sharpening iron, and I thinkmost religious traditions have
this idea and I think if youlook at other religions that are
sort of outside of theJudeo-Christian worldview, I
think there's similar ideas.
I even have a young Islamic guyon my team right now and him
and I spend we've spent hourstalking about the way the world

(11:58):
works and from our differentviewpoints, not to disagree with
each other, but actually tofurther sharpen our own
viewpoints.
I think in many ways you get astronger sense of your own view
when they are challenged.
And a good mentor I mean someof the mentors in my life have
had to put up with me when I wasyounger, coming into the room
and going like you are wrong andlike me, yelling at them, and I

(12:22):
, especially when I was younger,I had very, I was not a very
pleasant person.
Always I would just come in andbe like this is the way things
need to be and this is how weneed to move and why is it
taking so long?
And let's go.
You know you get a little olderand a little wiser and you go
like, oh, there's things youdon't see and but you need to be
able to, I think, sharpenagainst each other.
You need to have that friction.

(12:43):
Friction creates heat, I guess,and the heat creates a spark,
hopefully, to create betterideas.
And you know, maybe it is oneof those things that we miss now
in this digital space where wehave to meet like this rather
than in person, as muchpost-COVID, but where, you know,
we don't have that across thetable from each other as much as
we used to.

(13:03):
In some ways, there's a lot ofvalue in that and it's very
special, I think, as anexperience, for us to be able to
do that.

I have a son who's 13 and he's very black and
white, so I think I need to gethim to talk to you a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, I hung on to that teenage black
and whiteness for a lot longerthan I think most people did,
probably, but to that teenageblack and whiteness for a lot
longer than I think most peopledid, probably.
But you know, we learn and wegrow.
I'm definitely a lot wiser nowat 45 than I was at, you know,
20 or 22.
I definitely had a strong senseof, oh, I know how the world
works.
Now I'm like, the more I know,the more I'm like I don't

(13:38):
understand why the world worksthis way.
So, but you know, really, it'sabout learning how to move
through the world this way.
But you know, really, it's aboutlearning how to move through
the world.
You know and adapt to things,rather than you know knowledge
of the world.
And I'm so confident in myability to learn, but not always
confident in my ability to know, you know and where.
Earlier in my life, I think I Ifelt like I knew everything and

(14:03):
didn't need to learn.
And now I'm like what can I donext that I need to learn?
So, yeah, it's very important.

Okay, let's dive into some of your mentors.
So you mentioned yourgrandfather shortly before.
Why do you consider him as oneof your mentors?

You know my grandpa was an interesting guy.
His dad had come over fromSweden at a very, very young age
, at 11 years years old, byhimself and had a lot of
pressure.
It was a long story there buthad a lot of pressure to a
typical immigrant family tobetter themselves.
Having come from Sweden andwanted a better life for him and

(14:39):
his family, he had dropped outof high school when he was a kid
.
His family he had dropped outof high school when he was a kid
.
He did join the US Navy andlearned to trade and came back
and built a home moving and homebuilding business with his
brothers and they ran thatbusiness for 50 some years.
I grew up in the back of thatconstruction yard and lumber

(15:00):
yard and you know from a littlekid I was expected to both work
and help out there, whether itwas moving trash around or
cleaning up the shop, but justgenerally working with my
grandfather and watching hiswork ethic but more importantly,
the way he ran his business.
And he was an open book about alot of things.

(15:20):
He would ask us questions asyoung men, me and my cousins,
about how we were handling ourmoney and how were we paying
ourselves Were we paying tithe,how were we planning things?
And he was just the kind ofperson who loved to work hard
and he showed an incredible workethic to us.
And in many ways it wasn'talways the conversations that

(15:42):
you have with later mentors inyour life, but was this like you
saw his routine day in and dayout about the way he treated his
customers?
I understood very, very earlyon that my grandfather was a
fair and deliberate man with hiscustomers.
He cared a lot that they werehappy with their company's work.
That you know oftentimes.

(16:02):
Sometimes if people couldn'tafford a thing they needed, he
made stuff happen for them andhe wanted to do right in the
world, in town.
If somebody was on a hard timeand needed a job, he was one of
the first, you know people tooffer people work and find them
work, because he personallybelieved that a man who puts his
hand to work is going to bebetter than one who's sitting

(16:24):
around doing nothing.
You know, often he invested inpeople who probably didn't
entirely appreciate theinvestment too.
You know that's typical withthat kind of thing.
He wasn't naive, but he was.
He was a hard worker and withhim I also learned that, just
like value of having a schedule.
He was the kind of person who,him and his brothers, sat every
day and they not to turn thisinto religious talk but they sat

(16:47):
every day and did a devotionaltogether in the morning, had
their coffee, went out and didwork and then they'd go build
something.
And then they'd come in and dofika and sit and have coffee and
I'd go and sit with them.
As a kid Fika is like thatSwedish word for the 1030 coffee
break I'd come in and they'dsit drinking their like terrible
coffee and these oldScandinavian men would sit in

(17:09):
the back of the lumberyard andnot talk for 30 minutes, you
know, just sit and stare at eachother.
And every once in a whilesomebody might go oh, did you
hear about such and such familyor whatever.
They'd gossip like little oldladies, but generally speaking
they kind of they would takethese breaks.
You know, at 10 and two theywould take these breaks and they

(17:29):
would pace themselves throughtheir work and I think it made
them better at their work thatthey had this kind of schedule
and approach and routine.
And and yet my grandfatherwould put in hours and hours of
hard work.
He when I was in college, myfreshman year, I came home to
help him re-roof his own garageand he was in his 70s and the
day after I left the man felloff the roof, got back up on the
roof and finished what he wasworking on and a week later it

(17:52):
goes to my mother, lifts up thisshirt and shows these bruises
and was like should I go to thehospital?
You know, he was that kind ofman.
It wasn't that he was asuperhero, it was that you know
everybody's playing throughsomething you know, and he was
the kind of person who just youhave to keep moving.
If you don't keep moving, youknow you're going to fall apart

(18:13):
and you have to keep working.
I feel like I learned a lotabout my own work ethic with him
just my desire to put my handsto something and to keep moving
and to have the respect of acommunity.
The way he did when he passedaway.
Hearing people talk about himas a person was almost its own.
Mentoring event was like allthese reminding of like what

(18:34):
character means and you know,being an imperfect person in an
imperfect world, but trying todeliver your best for your
family and for yourself wassomething he was very good at.
When one of his brothers died,he took care of his kids for a
very long time, even though hehad a large family himself.
He had a family of nine and hehelped take care of his

(18:55):
brother's kids there were six ofthem making sure that they had
clothes and food and things theyneeded.
These are values that I knew asa kid, going into my adulthood,
that I wanted to emulate, that Iwanted to invest in others and
invest in my community andinvest in my business, and to
also invest in the people that Ihire and the people that I work
with Like how can I help makethem better?

(19:17):
He taught me a lot and the factthat I can do the trim in my
house or do certain kinds ofthings around here that require
physical labor.
Even though I don't want to Boy, I'll tell you that's a weird
mental thing you have to do.
It's like I know I can do this,so I should probably go fix
this thing, but I also am busyand it's probably not the best
use of my time to like go andredo all the trim in the house

(19:39):
right now.
That doesn't mean I haven'tdone stuff like that, but it's I
am my grandfather's grandson inthat way.
I love spending time doingthings with my hands and
investing in it, and it feelsgood as a person to do those
things.
So yeah, he was.
He was a great example type,mentor of things, and he cared a
lot about his grandsons.
He wanted us to be the bestversions of ourselves, and we

(20:01):
were often told when we wereyoung you know, we have this.
It was an immigrant thing, in away.
It's like you, your family camehere and they worked hard, so
you need to go work hard too.
We put it, we invested a ton soyou could go to your fancy
schools and you could go work oncomputers and play with your
toys, you know.
So it's definitely a differentmindset, for sure.

Man, he sounds like a special guy.
It explains a lot about you.
Just knowing about you and Imean having someone in your life
like that it can change yourwhole life right, and not having
someone like that, you know,can change your whole life.

I actually think about that a lot, like how
you know I know a lot of peoplewho have not had a kind of
connecting influence or, likeyou know, a shining light to
show as an example of stuff.
And you know the downside ofhaving somebody like him in your
life too is, you know, it's ahigh standard to live up to for

(20:54):
some people, and I think somepeople will look at these kinds
of behaviors and go like, well,I want to have a different path
and think that there's only oneway or there's only one standard
, and I think when you look atsomebody like that, you should
actually see that actually whattheir life is as an example of
how there is a bunch ofdifferent paths.

(21:14):
You know he didn't take atraditional path and he did work
with his hand, but he was stilla businessman who built a
successful and long runningbusiness.
You know you don't have to takeone path to the place, but what
a lot of people will see is thehard work and think that, well,
I just have to brute forceeverything or whatever, and that
they reject it.
And I don't think that's thelesson you should take away from
people like my grandfather oreven the way I work today.

(21:37):
You have to do what's best andoptimal for you to get the job
done and to make your life whatyou want out of it.

Was there ever any pressure or opportunity to join
the family business?

Not really.
I think nobody wanted us tohave to work like they had to
work.
I think in later years severalof my cousins and I got together
and we go hunting as a familytogether every fall.
My cousin Scott was in the Navyand he works for the US
military as a contractor and himand I will often talk about

(22:11):
like it's too bad somebody inthe family didn't take over
whether it was one of the sons,you know, and I know for my
grandfather it was sad when hesold and auctioned off the
business as he retired.
But it's also North Dakota andeven with the oil industry there
it's a tough place and it'shard country out there.
It builds hard people andnobody really wanted us to have

(22:33):
to go through and live the waythey had to live and to hustle
the way they had to hustle.
They wanted us to have a bettersituation and I think that's
why my grandfather, when hewould ask us questions about
money, for example, his wholething was like pay yourself and
pay God first and then do whatyou have to do after that.
We're like kind of big idealsfor him, not just because of the

(22:53):
, not just because of hisreligious views, but because of
his own, wanting to make sure hebuilt a better life.
After you know, he won it and Ithink he probably had regrets
that he had not been able toinvest more to set up his kids
even better than they were setup.
You know, he's sharing thisidea that invest more to set up
his kids even better than theywere set up.
He's sharing this idea that youhave to put money in savings,
you have to have a backup planto your backup plan.

(23:15):
Winter's coming, you know, andpeople don't.
It's a good lesson, but hedidn't really have.
I don't think they really everwanted us to be in that position
.
I'm sort of glad because, as Ican do stuff with my hands, but
my grandpa could bore a slab ofcement without even thinking
about it, or I would have to goand watch YouTube videos.
So yeah, you've mentionedbefore is Lance Binley who I

(23:54):
believe, worked with you atLogitech.
Tell me why Lance is one of yourinfluential mentors.
I think for a lot of people whoknew me around, the time I
joined Logitech I was not insuper great shape.
My two years of working on Bingwere really hard for me
personally and professionally.
I traveled around the world andI just was exhausted.
Microsoft was burning me out.
It's a lovely place.
Honestly, I still maintain tonsof friendships at Microsoft and

(24:18):
I mean it really is a greatplace but I was burnt out and
was really struggling and,honestly, I was pretty broken
and I resigned from Microsoftand just said look, I'm done.
I can't travel anymore.
I can't go and speak at theseconferences, I can't do
engineering work and domarketing.
I need a different path.

(24:39):
Like I was so stressed outworking hard and so I quit.
I took a bunch of time off andBrent Payne, who's an SEO who
had worked at the Tribunecompany for a while I'd met him
through SEO and doing webmasterwork at Microsoft with the

(25:02):
webmaster community he reachedout to me and said I know this
guy, lane Binley.
He's building a team atLogitech.
He'd been at a bunch of othercompanies.
He's going to call you and Iget this call from Lance and
interview with them and I meethim and he was just one of those
kinds of people where rightaway, I was like something about
this guy I really like and youknow he's an interesting

(25:24):
character.
He was a Buddhist, he'd beendivorced and has a second wife
and, yeah, he's just a prettynormal person in a lot of
interesting ways.
But he had been through theringer enough that I think he
saw me and was willing to takeme on as a project.
He was the kind of guy who andis the kind of guy who has

(25:44):
little aphorisms that I findmyself now saying to my team all
the time Like you know, my viewof the world is that we you
know I'm going to give you wideopen fields but high fences,
right, like you're always goingto know where the fences are.
But he was really good atbuilding a team.
He could, you know, he got thisteam of guys together and women
together to build the directconsumer and e-commerce business

(26:06):
at Logitech and he had acharter and a mission and he
understood how to invest inpeople.
You know my one-on-ones with him.
I could talk to him aboutanything and I could challenge
him on anything.
And you know, having come fromthat engineering world, I always
wanted to get on a whiteboardand argue with him and go like,
no, no, no.
And he I will never forget onetime.
He time he said, like I don'treally respect when people get

(26:29):
up on the whiteboard, like ifyou haven't thought through the
idea before you've come to talkto me, like you need to go back
and think it through.
I still like to talk on a whiteboard because I I speak to
think is the way I like todescribe it, but I really
respected the notion that, likehe's challenging me to think
things through before I come.
The first thing I learned fromhim is like he really would talk

(26:50):
regularly about how we bringour values to work.
And if you're going to show upat work for eight to nine hours
a day, it's a huge portion ofyour life.
You should be doing things thatmake you happy and make you
smarter and make you better, andwork is still work.
It doesn't mean we don't havebad days or good days or
whatever, but in the whole, youshould be looking at your work
as like a thing that contributesto your joy.

(27:11):
You're like, yeah, it should belike, why does it suck?
And a lot of times it sucks notbecause of the work itself, but
because of our own view of itor maybe the situation at a
company.
But he was really, really goodat being transparent and sharing
his values with us in a waythat made me want to be that
kind of leader and to not justinvest in my employees but to

(27:34):
truly coach them and to try andfind new ways to get the best
out of people.
And because I think that wasthe thing that he was best at,
when he retired and leftLogitech, I took over his role
and you know, to this day I havehired people from that team
that worked with us and continueto kind of work with folks that
I've worked with there to now,even at SteelSeries.

(27:57):
My partner on the DTC side ofthe business is a guy who was on
our team there as well, and wehave a similar working style and
a lot of how we view the worldwas shaped by the way Lance
built his teams, the way he wasa.
He was a by the numbers guy.
He is a by the numbers guy.
I can still call him Lance.
I think that's one of thethings I when the startup.

(28:20):
I was at Vices V-I-C-E-S Iguess that you talked about
football helmet startup when Iwas working on that.
When it failed, I called Lanceand was like man, I don't know,
what do I need to do?
What's next?
And you know we went back andforth on a bunch of things
because I was getting a littleworried like how do I get to the
next level?
I'm always stuck at this kindof like current level, what do I

(28:41):
got to do?
And asking him should I go backto college?
Should I do this, should I dothat?
You know he's the kind of guywho doesn't mind you texting him
and jumping on the phone andbumping ideas off of him and I
think there's a.
The lesson I think I reallylearned from him was
availability.
Right Like he, he always hadtime.
Even though I worked remote, Iwas up here in Seattle, he was

(29:02):
down in California.
He was always available to jumpon and work.
A problem to invest in theapproach.
But he was a pretty formulaicguy and I liked that too.
It worked for me.
He had these formulas he usedfor everything, and it was
during that time that heencouraged me to continue to go
out and speaking and so that'slike around the time we met.
He wanted me to not give upthis thing that I was doing at

(29:25):
Microsoft and learning aboutthat was good for my career, so
he discovered me.
Also, knowing that it wouldthinking about other things
would help me enjoy the work Iwas doing.
Again, thinking about otherbusinesses besides the Logitech
business, expanding my horizonsand taking tough questions from
people and investing in my ownlearning and then sharing my

(29:46):
learnings with others was goingto be good for Logitech and good
for me.
And I think you're lucky whenyou have a manager who sees you
as a kind of player.
I grew up playing hockey and Ienjoy soccer and I talked to my
team.
I hate that.
You know I'm always trying tolike avoid sports and military
metaphors, but they're reallyhard to avoid in business.
But, like I talked to my team alot right now my current team at

(30:08):
SteelSeries about the need fornobody on the team to be a
single position player, likeit's nice to have a vertical
you're strong in, but that weneed to be a team like Ajax and
we're going to play totalfootball and everybody has to
help create space for otherplayers on the team to get their
job done and to score a goal orwhatever it happens to be.

(30:29):
And Lance was kind of the firstperson that got me thinking
about how you structure a team,how you coach people, how you
invest in individual players onthe team creates a different set
of results.
Then if you just say, here'syour goals, here's your like,
here's the team's mission, go doit, here's the OKRs.
He was never a just go do itguy.

(30:51):
He was always investing in themental state of the players on
his team and I think that's animportant thing for us as
leaders and as mentors toremember that it's about your
mentals and your attitude.
That's one of the best ways youcan coach people is through
keeping their head right at anygiven moment and focused on the

(31:12):
things that matter and not onthe things that don't.
And he was great at that and Ithank him regularly.
I think he knows how I feelabout him.
He's such an interestingcharacter, kind of retiring a
little early way, earlier thanme.
I think his goal in life wasretirement, where my goal in
life is like, how can I workuntil the day I die?
But I think that was also ofhuge value to me was seeing

(31:34):
somebody that I related to somuch but also had such different
values than me, that desire toget home from work and be with
his wife and his daughter, andhow he brought those values into
the workplace taught me a lot.

So when you left Logitech, it must have been hard
, because it sounds like youwere really close with him.
Was there a certain sadnesswhen you left?

I think this is an underrated thing in work
that when you leave a jobwhether you're going to
someplace new that you'reexcited about, or if you're laid
off or if the company has to dolayoffs or the company goes out
of business, which is like theysay that leaving any job is a

(32:15):
bit like going through a divorce.
You go through this sort ofgrief and there's that kind of
FOMO that people experience.
That I think is hard becauseyour peers are still out there
doing stuff and you kind of wantto be with them.
And I loved Logitech.
I just hit the top of where Iwas going to be at Logitech
After he retired and set me upfor success.
I was already kind of on my own.
I was building a new team.

(32:35):
I set that team up for success.
Logitech got a new CMO and Iremember meeting her and
thinking, oh, I'm probably donehere.
You know, it's like I was theguy hired by the last guy, and
not that she didn't like me, shewas, she was amazing, by the
way.
It's like I instantly was like,oh, she's super smart, but she

(32:57):
had a way of doing things.
That was like she was going towant to take the things I'd been
building and shape them in herimage and I was like this is
going to be very I will be inher way.
I sent when I resigned.
I sent the CEO and he called meand was like is there anything
we can do to convince you tostay?
Bracken Darrell, great, greatCEO.

(33:18):
He's currently at VF Corp, likeVans, really amazing and
interesting guy.
Yeah, calls me up on the phoneimmediately and he's like what
can we do to get you to stay?
And I was like look, you knowyou hire this new CMO and she's
awesome and I will be in the way.
Like I can already tell I'mgoing to be in the way.
If the company is going thatdirection, you guys should have
a chance for her to be a successand I don't want to just be

(33:42):
this burden of the legacy waythings should work.
Let's go amicably and I'll justgo and find a new playground.
And I'd wanted to work in VR.
I'd gone to, I'd talked withboth Facebook and HTC and HTC
was here in Seattle and I'd hada former coworker who worked
there and was like I'm going togo play over here for a while
and if you guys ever want meback, I'm always willing to talk

(34:04):
.
But in the meantime but it was Ithink there was grief for a
while.
It was eight really successfulyears for me of personal growth
and development, being able tomove on to several next new
levels and take on more work,things that I mean.
Running a sales and marketingteam was something I never
thought I would do as anengineer.
I was like the learning, allthe numbers and the budgeting

(34:27):
process and all of that stuffthat Lance taught me how, how to
operate a business, not justhow to work a business and to
plan, but actually thefundamentals, the P and L and
all of that.
It was sad for a while.
I definitely went through aperiod of like even jumping into
my new job and the excitementof it, but still being like I
wonder what this person's doing,I wonder what that person's

(34:48):
doing, I wonder how the businessis going and sort of peeking in
on things.
You know it's hard not to.
But I think when you bring on anew employee who comes from a
place, even with that excitement, I think a great manager tries
to understand the feelings theymight be going through in the
first couple of months that helpthem embrace the new team and
get excited about being wherethey're at, because everybody

(35:10):
has gone through something.
If they've gone through layoffseven more, so right, because
that's often devastating topeople's financial life.
And they're excited about thenew job and they're excited to
get back to work.
But they're maybe operating ata level of fear and you want to
get them into a place ofpositive forward momentum.
Not just you know like nobodywants to be around a drowning

(35:32):
man, right Like that's the mostdangerous place to be is really
important so that they feel lesslike that, having just gone

(35:53):
through a divorce, and insteadmore like a new romance.
You know something to beexcited about you said years ago
.

I remember one of your talk.
In one of your talks you spokeabout getting like I think it
was something like a four toeight row as on google ads
selling logitech.
I don't know if you rememberthat.
Yeah but to me in my mind to mein my mind it was always like,

(36:19):
like all those years after itwas like, how do I get that four
day that jeremiah spoke about?
Uh, is this so funny for me toremember that now?
Oh my gosh.

Oh yeah, we are heavy focused.
My, I mean it was.
I'll never forget Lance once hehad all these aphorisms.
You know it was like we'vegiven you the company's
checkbook.
Like you know, failure isn'tlike having a campaign that goes
sideways.
That's going to happen.
Failure is not trying, and he'slike.

(36:51):
But on the other hand, we'vegiven you the company's
checkbook and you need to treatit like your own.
And from a contribution marginstandpoint, if we made a dollar
and it took us a dollar to makethat dollar, we're not doing
very good.
But if we make $10 and we spenta dollar, now we're
self-funding.
You know we don't have to goand ask for budget.
We're self-funding out of themargin of the products.

(37:12):
So how do you get on variousproducts and it was the first
time I actually started thinkingabout my efforts in regard to
work as a contribution to thetotal margin and as a part of
the finance marketing as a partof the finance, marketing as a
part of the finance.
And there are intangibles inmarketing and branding that to

(37:33):
make those numbers work.
You like chasing the last clickand chasing the ROAS is like
heroin.
You'll get it once and thenyou'll be doing it forever.
Um, look what you did to me,jeremiah.

What the heck man.

I know Seriously, and I'm truly I've
spent a lot of my career chasingthese very difficult numbers
and it's gotten a lot harder,because I think what was once
possible between Facebook andGoogle is less possible than it
used to be by design from them.

(38:10):
They they recognize people weremaking too much money and then
would spend less on ads, and sothey've made it harder for us.
And you know it's, but I thinkat the same time it's even then.
It was about facing thelandscape of the business we
were trying to create, lookingat what was possible and then
striving for the best thing thatwas possible, and lance was

(38:32):
really good at pointing that out.
I don't I don't know if heactually thought we could hit 10
to 1 or 12 to 1 and at varioustimes we'd hit.
We'd hit some pretty crazynumbers.
We had a good year where wewere doing like 12 to 1 across
all of our media and and I waslike you guys need to give me
huge raises, but I'm also actinglike a day trader.
Back then, you know, I'm like,totally, you're not sleeping a

(38:55):
whole lot if you're chasing a 12to one return on ad spend and.
But you know, in his mind also,it's like, well, amazon and
Best Buy and this company andthat company, like their margins
don't work if they can't beprofitable against their margins
.
And so it was just this sensethat you had to chase the best

(39:16):
margin possible.
And I think even now, one ofthe biggest things I end up
talking to people a lot about inwork when I'm coaching people
is like what is the businessmodel you're chasing?
If you're buying media for myteam and you're thinking about
it at this super high brandlevel and not at that growth or
incremental merchant spend levelbased on the way the funding

(39:38):
works for this particular set ofcampaigns, you're already doing
it wrong.
It's like I need you to firstthink about what our business
model is and then move over here, and oftentimes, if you're, you
know, an I-shaped individualand all you think about is media
buying, you may not think abouthow, like, oh, the funding for

(39:58):
this media comes from a 23% or aeven smaller margin cap and
it's not really a budget fund inOpEx.
But from a P&L perspective it'sa.
We can take this out of marginas long as we don't exceed it.
Nobody's going to bother usOtherwise we have to, from a
financial perspective, treat itas OpEx and now we're in the

(40:22):
negative.
And having somebody coach youthrough how the business
actually works can be reallyeye-opening to the way you
design your own performance andit sets a different expectation
for the employee.
It says I'm contributing notjust to this media application
but to the output of thebusiness.

(40:42):
I actually am impacting thetotal revenue target for the
year.
I am impacting the regionalrevenue target for the year.
I am impacting the regionalrevenue target.
The whatever right, the growthof this business is in my hands
and that growth is both at thecontribution financial
contribution level, as well asthe new users in the queue.
You know and he was so good atcoaching through stuff like that

(41:05):
I dream of those kinds of ROASsand sit and think about ways we
could do that and it'sunfortunately gotten much harder
.
And I think a big part of ourjob these days is we coached all
these people that this is theway magazines and TV ads.
We coached them on a whole newway the world could work and now

(41:34):
we're having to undo that.
It's kind of a shitty thing tohave to do.

Yeah, that's why I say digital marketing is kind
of like going up the hill andnow we're going back down.
It's like, yeah, it'sdefinitely, it's not easy.
You mentioned a topic that I'malso passionate about, because
in my company we actually havemostly females, so I just wanted
to know why you know youmentioned one of the things you
wanted to talk about is aboutsupporting female leadership.
Obviously, women have certainchallenges being leaders in an

(42:04):
organization, but you knowwhat's what's important to you
about that.
How do you help the women onyour teams, or even just your
colleagues, deal with thechallenges?

I started at Logitech At the time Lance left,
there was a kind of attritionthat was happening where people
were starting to leave and turnover and I had to do some hiring
.
And this was the first time Iever started thinking about this
.
Before I never really thoughtabout it.
I was like I've worked withwomen and I've worked with men
and it all seems great.
But now I'm the boss and I'mhaving to do hiring.

(42:34):
And I was trying to hire inEurope and I was shocked because
I would talk to the recruitersat Logitech and I would just get
these.
I would get the same resumesover and over and over again,
and over and over and over again, and they were all men.
And granted, I work in consumerelectronics, so like there's
kind of draw, but on paper theyall looked the same and I was

(42:55):
like for the consumerelectronics industry to grow, we
actually need people with somedifferent ideas, we need people
from different industries, weneed people, and I but I
couldn't figure out why.
I was only like in the globe,it doesn't make sense that I
would only get men, male resumesand it.
It was just very strange to meand it stood out as something

(43:15):
that was weird.
And so I'd start talking to therecruiter and the recruiter's
like well, in this country orthis country, you know, when
people get the CV, you've gotthe like picture of the person
and their name and you get allthis history.
And in Europe people will evenput like if they have children
and stuff on their resume.
And I was like I don't want anyof that.
When I was like when you'redoing the screeners, when you

(43:36):
have a screener do recruiting,whether it be a tool or anything
, I want CV to job descriptionmatch and that's it and pull
their names like, pull the names, pull everything off the top of
the resume.
I don't want, I don't want theactual recruiter to see any of
that.
Let's get them just cdcomparisons to and overnight,
all of a sudden, I had 49 of theresumes were now women and the

(44:01):
rest were men.
Wow, all just all of a sudden.
And it was very eye-opening tome personally and it became like
I'm like something about this Idon't like.
I just don't like that.
I don't like that feeling thatthere was a game being played on
my behalf, even right.

Like so now yeah, 100%.

Now, all of a sudden, I have three really
talented women on my team, bothsenior.
All three of them wererelatively senior and I have to
guide them.
The same way, I'm being guided,and I remember reaching out to
a couple of friends in thesearch industry particularly
women friends and saying like,okay, now all of a sudden I've
got a bunch of women on my teamand I'm the boss.

(44:43):
What do I need to do to coachthem?
And the reality is is, on onehand, it's the same thing you
have to do with everybody else,it's listen to them, try and
understand what their goals andambitions are.
But I also think like for me,the changeover was really
putting them in a position wherethey could speak on behalf of
the team, where they couldinvest and bring skills from you

(45:07):
know, you don't often thinkabout when you think about
consumer electronics to theforefront I have.
Right now, my team is 50% women, 50% men, even split right down
the middle.
At SteelSeries, our CMO is atalented and strong woman who's
been both in the CPG industry aswell as consumer electronics.
She worked with us briefly as aconsultant at Logitech.

(45:30):
I'm surrounded by strong,strong female players, and I
think the difference for me,though, is that, in the
industries I've worked in, therehas been this expectation that
women needed to work like we do,and I don't like.
I don't think a man needs towork the way I do.
I want a man on my team to comein and bring his unique talents

(45:54):
and strengths to the team, andit is my job as the manager to
bring out those talents and helpthem execute to the best of
their ability.
Same thing with women.
If you're going to invest inthem, you've got to invest in
them at the level of what aretheir unique strengths and
talents and allow that to cometo the forefront and allow that
to whatever those differencesare and sometimes I mean you

(46:19):
know you'll you'll work withwomen, especially in the sales
side of things, that are asaggressive and as for lack of a
better word bro-y as any other,particularly in the sales side
of the world.
It's just something thatattracts saleswomen versus
salesmen.
They just can be veryaggressive.
In the world we're in, marketingis so much.
It's art and science, and so weneed to draw that out, and we

(46:43):
need to create a space wherepeople can be free to be the
version of themselves that theyare, and that both means being a
woman or being a man or being,you know, gender fluid or
whatever.
Right, like, I want to bringout the best, and it starts with
having a heart of like, wantingseeing people for the talents

(47:03):
and interests that they have andencouraging them to apply that
to the business they're in.
You know, when I left Logitechand HTC, there was this part of
me that's like I want any otherjob than working in consumer
electronics.
It's like I don't want to beknown as the consumer
electronics guy.
I would sell diapers, you know,but only because I was hungry
to learn new things.

(47:25):
And I think one of the beautiesof bringing in women and
investing in women on the teamis they bring with them a whole
host of differences.
And when we watch female gameplayers play versus male game
players, there's a different wayin which people play.
There's a different way inwhich people who are left-handed
versus right-hand play.
And I want the world of gaming,since I do work in consumer

(47:50):
gaming I want gamers to playtheir best and to be the hero of
their own story when they'replaying.
I know that sounds verymarketing, but, like, I want
them to be the hero of theirgame and I think women bring
their own unique sort of vibe toa team.
But if you're going to havewomen on the team, there are,

(48:11):
like cultural things that I havea global team, my team's from
all over the world, so we're noteven just dealing with like
stereotypes of women in businessfrom the US, but, like my
right-hand person right now is aChinese woman who lives in
France and is very French andvery Chinese all at the same
time and culturally there's alot of differences there than me

(48:31):
, a white guy from the Midwest,and I have to make space for her
to talk, to explain things tome, to help me understand her
viewpoints.
And if you're going to lead adiverse team, you have to be
willing to sit with people andrespectfully challenge them and
encourage them and ask them tobe their best, but also listen

(48:52):
to them, to hear them and to seethem and to make space for them
to lead, and to lead in theirown way, because it's going to
be different than how you lead.
Inevitably, I in a lot of ways,you know it's helped me.
I got a um.
I I uh hired a executive coacha few years ago, um, just to try

(49:13):
and get better, and she was asuccessful executive and I've
learned a lot from her.
She challenges me a lot in myown goal setting and approach
and I think in having a womanexecutive coach it's made me a
better mentor and coach to myown team of women, and I think I
do.
There are times when I havedifficult conversations because

(49:35):
you have to sort of say likewell, this guy is kind of old
school and you have to do thingsthis way to get this thing done
.
I hate telling people thatbecause they shouldn't have to,
but on the other hand, we're allpeople and we have to live in a
world where things don't alwayswork the way we want them to.
But on the other hand, we'reall people and we have to live
in a world where things don'talways work the way we want them
to.
I'll admit I was a littleworried as I've sort of elevated
this woman in France, like,would people in her office

(49:55):
respect her the way they would amale colleague being the lead
With the men there?
Like, the culture there isinteresting at times with regard
to men and women.
The culture there isinteresting at times with regard
to men and women.
And yet what you find out isthat it's not about those, are
not things about hercapabilities, and we should be

(50:15):
focused on her capabilities.
And that's how you invest inwomen.
In leadership is you invest inher capabilities, not the
culture's needs.
You add to those capabilitiesso that she can adapt to
whatever the culture is.
The expectation, then, is thatwe're growing and making a place
that women can be promoted,that they can grow, that they're

(50:38):
representative of our user baseand that their ambition can be
achieved the same way a man'scan, and I definitely have had
conversations at a previouscompany.
I had a young woman who workedfor me where four months in our
one-on-one, I would say you know, we have this upcoming annual
review and you really need toask me for a raise, you really

(51:02):
need to say this.
And I was telling her becauseit's not that I didn't want to
give that to her it's thatcompany culture was such that if
she didn't ask, I was sort ofmorally obliged not to.
I think people don't alwaysunderstand that you have a
fiduciary responsibility.
That sometimes means it'sunfair, but, on the other hand,

(51:24):
you have to be a differentperson in the negotiating room
than you are on the work floor,and every annual review is a
chance to have this negotiationwith your manager, and I would
sit there and kind of like hintat her, like if you don't do
this, I'm sort of like my handsare tied.
But if you do this and it wasweird to be like as a friend you

(51:44):
should ask me this, because Iwill.
I'm you know, at the end of theday, I need you to push for
what you want and need,otherwise the company will not
allow me to give it to you, andI think those are tricky
conversations you have to coachpeople on and it's unfair that
the world is structured to theway men think and work a lot of

(52:07):
times.
As a mentor and as a manager,we have to do our best to see
those opportunities and stepahead of them.
Yeah it's been a big thing forme personally.
I hope that all makes sensethat all makes sense?

No, it does, and that's such an awesome
perspective.
I really appreciate it.
So now it's time for ourlightning round.
I'm going to mention fivecategories and you can either
tell me your favorite part of itor your favorite type.
Move through it pretty quickly.
So first one is rifles andhunting.

So funny thing about rifles and hunting.
I grew up hunting and shooting,but really it's been later in
my life that I started learninghow to coach and teach people
how to shoot and train people.
There was a lot of interestaround obviously during COVID
people wanting to learn.
And I am a safety nut and I'mnot a gun nut.
I'm a safety nut and so I spenta lot of time wanting to learn

(52:58):
more and so rifles became superinteresting to me, partly as a
competitive person too, becauseI wanted to go more, and so
rifles became super interestingto me, partly as a competitive
person too, because I wanted togo out and shoot competitively.
I wanted to like test myself.
And then you get into like thescience of ballistics and real
engineering nerd and so like howcan I shoot further?
How can I shoot?
You know it's not about volume,but how can it be more accurate

(53:18):
and learning about accuracyversus precision.
So rifles and hunting for mebecame this like way to apply
all this fun, weird stuff that Iwas doing in my business life
into this like weird hobby thatI understand comes with a bunch
of, you know, strangeimplications.
But it's also become now aplace of joy for me to go out

(53:39):
every year with my family and gohunting again, to bring home a
freezer full of meat and knowwhere it came from and to learn
how to, to like learn so muchabout the animals that we hunt.
I, I love these animals, youknow.
I know it seemscounterintuitive, but I spend my
year watching them on camerasand like learning their

(53:59):
behaviors and you it's.
You get to a point where you'reactually less interested in
killing them and you just getsuper excited to go out there.
I think it was Teddy Rooseveltor somebody else that said we
don't hunt for the kill but likewe hunt for the hunt itself.
Is the thing right?
Like?
I know I'm misquoting thisentirely, but I like there's a
bit.
Once you actually get into it,there's this thing where you

(54:20):
start to realize like so much ofthe gun and hunting thing is
about being with like mindedpeople who want to challenge
their own abilities and I lovebeing challenged, whether that's
in sport or in hunting or inshooting, and that's why I am
just not allowed to have anymore hobbies that are challenge
things.
I would never get any work done.

(54:41):
All right, how about dogs?
Dogs I have three dogs Rosie,ruby and Freya they are.
They keep me very busy.
They're sitting around me rightnow, fortunately sleeping.
But I always grew up with dogs.
I've had them with me forever.
They travel with me at times,which is wild.
Every summer I try to go onroad trips to see family and
friends and I just throw them inthe back of the Defender and

(55:05):
away we go, and they are myconstant companions so I love
them to death.

Photography.

I started collecting vintage cameras when
I was 18 years old.
I just loved the engineering.
I loved how they sounded likewatches and they were clicky and
amazing and interesting.
I dreamed of one day owning aLeica.
I now have 15 Leicas and I havea Hasselblad and I have shot
all over the world and Icurrently have a photo hanging

(55:34):
in the Leica Wetzlar Germany intheir headquarters out there
corporate museum.
I won an award a few years back.
I shoot for my own pleasure andenjoyment.
I mean, a lot of people shootand they enter their photos into
competitions.
That's just not me.
But every once in a while I'llget outreach and things from
people who like my photographyor interested, and that's always

(55:55):
nice when somebody enjoys yourstuff.
But I do it for me.
My house is full of art andphotography.

Growing up, my dad had a shelf on the way to his
bedroom which had like a bunchof vintage cameras.
So that's definitely a part ofmy life, but I don't know all
the names.
But I can definitely appreciateit as well.
How about travel?

Travel is one of my favorite things.
I'm probably my most happiestwhen I'm experiencing a new
culture or somewhere else.
I've been to every continentother than Antarctica.
I'm still terrified of flying alittle bit.
I don't think people realizelike you can be terrified of
flying and like it, but I lovebeing on the road.
I like driving adventures asmuch as I like flying adventures

(56:39):
, but I just like being otherplaces and experiencing new
things.
I used to be such a picky eateras a kid and I've just learned
to be in the culture and be inthe moment.
I don't like doing touristystuff.
I want to go to the local baror the local restaurant and I
like challenging myself.
But my favorite place probablyever has been is still probably

(57:00):
Tokyo.
It's just so.
It's such a foreign concept.
Mexico City is an amazing cityand it's one of my favorites,
but I would I would go to Tokyoover just about any place in the
world if I could go again rightnow, just because there's so
few people who speak English.
There's so few like.
It's such a dynamic place.
For someone with ADHD, it canbe overwhelmingly loud at night

(57:22):
like just anxiety creating withall the blinking lights and
noise, but then in the morningit's so quiet you can hear the
clicking of women's heels on thesidewalk.
It's crazy and it's beautiful.
I highly encourage travel, andif you have one thing you should
add to your life's pursuits tomake yourself a better person,
it's travel.

(57:43):
You'll just become a betterperson.
You'll appreciate what you havemore and you'll want more for
yourself too.
I think you'll want a betterculture and a better world.

And then, finally, your most favorite tech right
now.

I actually think where things are going
with cars is really interesting.
Even in ICE vehicles, there'sjust an amazing amount of tech
going into cars right now thesensors.
It's hard to begin to evenunderstand how much our cars
have become computers in thelast, maybe even just the last
10 years, and when you look atthe innovations that Tesla has

(58:17):
made, the work that BMW andMercedes are doing I follow a
bunch of people from Mercedesand their innovation labs.
I follow a bunch of people fromMercedes and their innovation
labs and it's just like thestuff they're thinking about in
trying to make the world betteraround cars is crazy.
And yet the biggest problem wehave is that the tires still
produce most of themicroplastics and waste and we
haven't solved that yet.

Like they're kind of ignoring that for now.

Yeah Well.
I think that when the electricstuff doesn't make it any better
in fact it makes it worse, youknow.
But I think that's what makesit interesting, right.

Jeremiah, this has been such an awesome
conversation.
I definitely have so much moreto discover about you and just
your perspective, but thank youso much for being a guest today
and thank you, everyone else,for joining the Digital
Marketing Mentor.
We'll speak with you next time.
Everyone else, for joining theDigital Marketing Mentor.

(59:17):
We'll speak with you next time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Breakfast Club

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}079: From Microsoft to Mentorship: Jeremiah Andrick’s Journey of Lifelong Learning

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Breakfast Club

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

079: From Microsoft to Mentorship: Jeremiah Andrick’s Journey of Lifelong Learning

On Purpose with Jay Shetty