081: Powered By Psychology: Jyll’s Guide to Google Ads, Audience Targeting & Mentorship

Episode Transcript
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Danny Gavin (00:05):
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor.
I'm your host, danny Gavin, and, together with industry leaders
and marketing experts, we'llexplore the meeting point of
mentorship and marketing.
We'll discover how theseconnections have affected
careers, marketing strategiesand lives.
Now get ready to get human.
Get ready to get human.

(00:49):
Leverage Google's insights andadvertising.
Since then, she's turned herexpertise into a thriving career
as a Google Ads coach,consultant and content creator,
sharing her wisdom throughworkshops, her own platforms,
speaking events and so much more.
With a wealth of experience anda knack for making digital
marketing accessible, jill ishere to help us navigate the
world of Google Ads.
Today, we're going to talkabout trends and coaching,
building a personal brand,online content creation,
repurposing and, of course, justa lot about Google ads.
How are you, jill?

Jyll Saskin Gales (01:09):
I'm doing great, danny.
Thanks, how are you doing?

I'm doing really great.
It's so nice that we got tomeet a couple months ago at a
conference, so I got to meet youin real life, and it's just so
cool that we get to sit togethertoday and chat.

Yes, I'm really looking forward to it,
especially after seeing you inperson in California.

All right.
So, jill, where did you go toschool and what did you study?

I went to Tufts University in
Massachusetts for undergrad andstudied psychology and child
development, and while I lovedstudying that, I realized pretty
quickly that I didn't actuallywant to work with kids all day.
So I went into journalism andthen went to Harvard Business
School to get my MBA beforelanding in marketing.

Amazing.
So a lot of people ask me likewhat is there?
You know what's a goodundergrad to get when you're
deciding that you want to gointo marketing, do you feel like
, after the fact, psychology wasa good choice?

Psychology was a good choice because it
really built those kind ofresearch like develop a
hypothesis, improve it, skills,and then it's also just about
understanding people.
But I would say like anybackground can be a background
that works for marketing.
Even when I worked at Google,you know there were people on
the team who used to be lawyersand then worked there, people
who never went to university,went to college and then came to

(02:18):
Google.
So any background can serve youwell for a career in marketing.

Yeah, I agree that's very, very fair.
So you know, harvard BusinessSchool is a big name.
Is that something you alwayswanted to do or you kind of just
fell into it?

You know it's funny.
I applied to Harvard BusinessSchool during my last year in
college and got accepted while Iwas still an undergrad and my
friends joked that I was likethe business Elle Woods.
I woke up one day like maybeI'll go to Harvard.
So it was a bit random that Idecided to apply and was
fortunate to get accepted.
But I will say my father wentto Harvard Business School and
so I grew up, you know, aroundthe dinner table hearing stories

(02:52):
about the case method and whatbusiness school was like.
I just never really connected itto myself until I was getting
to the end of my universitycareer, still had no idea what I
wanted to do when I grew up.
So I just applied.
You know what have I got tolose, except some hours on an
application.
And once I was accepted, thedeal was I had to go work for
two years first before I couldgo get my MBA.

(03:14):
So by the time I started I wasone of, if not the youngest in
my class and I just was a spongefor those two years of my MBA
program, learned so much and itwas a really great experience.

So cool.
And that requirement of havingto work for two years.
Was that a requirement fromHarvard?

It was.
So I was part of actually whatat the time was a brand new
program called 2 Plus 2.
And the idea was that HarvardBusiness School wanted to reach
out and recruit more people whowouldn't typically consider an
MBA.
Like once you go off into theworkforce, it's really different
thinking about going back toschool.
So they heavily recruited, notat Tufts but trying to get
undergrads from diversebackgrounds, from

(03:52):
underrepresented backgrounds, toapply to business school so
that if we accept you before youeven graduate from undergrad,
you can go into the workforceknowing you're coming back in
two years.
So I definitely don't think Iwould have ended up at Harvard
without that program and it wasa really nice way for me and for
a lot of other different kindsof people to get into that MBA
pipeline who weren't coming from, you know, consulting or

(04:12):
finance yeah, that's so cool.

So I also did my MBA, like right after undergrad,
and thank god I was workingduring that time.
So I was in a full-time programand I was, like you know, I was
like a real typical student.
Typical student Like I justneed to study and do that.
And it was one or two yearsafter I got married and my
wife's like you're not sittingat home and just studying, you
need to go work.
So I ended up working, butthank God I did because I had no

(04:36):
like, in order to really gothrough an MBA program, you
gotta have some work experience,because if you don't, it just
doesn't.
So that's cool that they madeyou do it.
I think it's a wonderfulrequirement.

It is, and it was interesting because, you
know, harvard Business School isnot the only business school
that uses the case method, butthey're the ones who kind of
pioneered it, and the premise isin the class, you know, the
teacher's not lecturing.
The teacher presents a case,you prepare it the night before
or the week before and in classyou're really learning from your
classmates, and so it wasreally interesting.
You know, I was pretty cockygrowing up, always thought I was

(05:06):
really smart and was used tofeeling like, oh, I'm the
smartest in the room, you know.
And then I get to this roomwith 90 classmates in my section
and I'm like wow, everyone hereis not only older, more
experienced than me, they're allsmarter than me.
Maybe for the first time in mylife I listen and that was a
really important experience forme, I think personally as well

(05:27):
as professionally just the powerlike shutting up and listening
and learning from the muchdeeper experience everyone
around me had.
And it wasn't until like later,my first year, that I started
talking more.
I mean, when I first got thereI was like yeah, then I thought
you know what, jill?
These people have a lot more tosay than you.
Maybe you should just bring itdown a level and listen and
learn from others, and I'mreally glad I did so.
You know I was not a standoutstudent by any means at Harvard

(05:48):
Business School, but gradesdon't matter in business school.
I got the education I neededand the practical experience I
needed and the social experienceI needed and it has set me up
really well in my career.

Any other stories inside or outside of the
classroom that you feel like setyou up for success later on.

You know, outside of the classroom I had a
friend.
He lived in the dorm next doorto me two years in a row and he
was a few years older and he wasmarried by the time business
school started.
I was single and actually metmy husband in business school,
and dating had always been alittle bit challenging for me,
shall we say.
I'm sure all the single womencan relate, probably the single

(06:25):
men and others as well and so hewas sort of I don't want to
call him my dating guru, thatsounds weird, but he gave me
some like very pointed feedbackearly on in my business school
career, just about the way I waspresenting myself and
interacting with others.
He asked permission first,which I appreciated, but it was
just feedback that I'd neverreceived before, and so in

(06:45):
business school we think of thisfeedback environment.
You get a lot of professionalfeedback, but getting that kind
of personal feedback was veryhelpful to me, and I mean I did
find my husband there shortlyafterwards.
So there you go.

That's so cool.
I know it's not a datingpodcast, but one bit of advice
you could give to those dating.

Oh gosh, I was never.
I never had to use the appsLike I've met my husband before
the swiping and all that becamea thing.
So that is something where I amnow humble enough to say I am
in no position to give advice.
No-transcript.

(07:23):
When you're picking a partner,if you're someone who intends to
have kids one day, then reallythink about your partner as
someone who you want to likeco-parent with and it's almost
like running a business with.
It's not just like, oh, I lovethat we're going to have fun, I
mean, that is what it's like.
But then later in life, youknow, when you're running a
household together, you know,are you compatible potentially

(07:43):
in that way?
So that's what I'd encouragethose daters out there to think
about.

That is so valuable .
I'm glad you mentioned that.
Really good.
How do you define a mentor?

My job these days is as a Google Ads coach.
So I think being a coach isabsolutely part of mentorship.
But I think another reallyimportant part of mentorship is
kind of being a mirror, beingable to reflect back to people
what they already know.
You know, being that soundingboard kind of the way some of my
friends in business school werefor me.
So I think it's reallyimportant.
A mentor isn't someone whotells you what to do.

(08:14):
They're someone who might helpshow you the way but, almost
more importantly, help yourealize you already know the way
.
You just need a bit of a nudgeto get onto that path.

You know, what's interesting is there are a lot
of people that you think arementors, but like they like to
tell you what to do, right, soyou kind of have to find someone
with a lot of experience, butalso, like they can kind of I
don't want to use the word shutup, but yeah, you know, be quiet
, actually listen and push youin the right direction.

Whether in my job as a coach, where, of
course, I'll be moreprescriptive in the coaching
session that's what you'repaying me for or in more
informal times when I've been amentor.
I found the times when I justclose my mouth and listen are
the times when I'm then able tohave a bigger impact for that
person, and that's absolutely askill I learned in business
school that I did not havebefore then.

(08:57):
Sorry to all my friends beforethen.

It's okay, always time to change.

Yeah, yeah.

So let's talk about some of your most influential
mentors, namely Todd Moffin, Ithink, and Eric Morris.

Yeah, todd Moffin, if he were to listen to
this, he probably would notconsider himself my mentor, and
if Eric Morris were to listen,he probably wouldn't either.
So I think that's an importantthing to say.
You know, in order for someoneto be your mentor, it doesn't
need to be hello.
Will you please be my mentor?
Yes, I will be your mentor, butit doesn't need to be hello.
Will you please be my mentor?
Yes, I will be your mentor, butthese are two individuals who
have had a significant impact inmy career and, at certain
points, had a real stake inguiding my career, and that's

(09:33):
why I consider them mentors.
Todd is the host of the Today inDigital Marketing newsletter
and podcast, which I highlyrecommend if you're interested
in marketing, and he's someonewho I met on TikTok a few years
ago.

(10:01):
He had seen one of my videos,stitched it and then we just
dropped into the DMs, startedtalking, and he has opened a lot
of doors for me in my career.
He had me on his podcast, butalso I just finished writing my
first book, and Todd's publisheda book before he years.
I launched my podcast a yearago and when I was trying to get
my first sponsor, todd was theone I called for advice on what
a sponsorship package could looklike.
I've been starting to get intomore speaking.
Todd has had a career where hewas a paid professional speaker
and he keeps encouraging meevery couple of times we talk
Jill, when are you going to letme introduce you to a speaking

(10:22):
agent?
So I appreciate that he reallynot only sees the potential in
me but will just like push meand say, like you know, you can
do this and how can I help youkind of get to that next level.
So that has been and continuesto be very valuable for me.

That's so interesting because when you
describe that relationship, itsounds like he would know that
he's your mentor.
Why do you think he's not?

He absolutely is my mentor, but I've never
used that word in conversationwith him and I will say it goes
the other way as well.
Like Todd will ask me foradvice about certain things that
I've done that he hasn't.
It really is a two-wayrelationship that way.
You know I am a Google Adscorrespondent for his podcast.
You know he comes and guests inmy course, so I think we both

(11:03):
offer a lot of value to eachother, professionally and
personally.
And that's really nice.
The power of the Internet thatyou can meet someone through
TikTok and then have thisoutsized impact on their
personal and professional life.

Yeah, and it just stresses the fact that you said
before, like you can have thesementorship relationships even if
you don't actually say, hey, doyou want to be my mentor?
Right, but it's about findingthe person who can do those
things.
It's not necessarily do youhave to give them a title or a
label.

Yeah, exactly , exactly so.
I think Todd will have a goodchuckle when he listens to this
and hears that he's one of mymentors.

Awesome.
So what about Eric?
Tell me about him.

Yeah, eric Morris, again, probably would
not consider himself my mentorHaven't even spoken to him in a
few years but when I worked atGoogle, he was actually the
person who ultimately made thedecision to hire me at Google.
Even though I didn't report tohim directly, I had this cool
role.
When I worked at Google.
I was part of the largecustomer sales team and I was an
international growth consultant, so I was part of a global team

(11:59):
.
I reported to a manager in theUS, but I was the only person
doing my job in Canada and soevery day I was working with the
teams at Google Canada and Ericmanaged those teams.
And you know, when I first gotto Google, I had dabbled in
Google ads a little before, butyou do not need Google ads
experience to get a job atGoogle.
In case you didn't know that,and because I was part of this

(12:20):
global team that was all basedin Europe and the US and I was
the only one in Canada it basedin Europe and the US and I was
the only one in Canada.
It was just a really trickyposition to be in.
Like when my team was formed.
My team got 15 headcount.
14 were existing Googlers whotransferred to this
international team and I was theonly new Googler and I
floundered a little in thebeginning, if I'm honest.
It was summertime and I wastrying to ramp up and figure

(12:41):
things out and I was not havingmuch impact.
You know my first month or two.
But Eric really took me underhis wing and brought me into his
team and made himself like myhonorary manager.
We'd have regular check-ins, hewould review my work but, most
importantly, he would push meand challenge me.
Like Eric is really tough.
He's the kind of leader whoreally expects you to know your

(13:03):
numbers and know your businessand, more importantly, know your
client's business.
And so you know you could notBS your way through a meeting
with Eric and I needed someoneto kind of call me on my BS and
say, like no, jill, you can dobetter than this.
Like, come back to me when youhave something of real value to
deliver.
Not in a mean way, in anencouraging way, like come back
when you have something of valueto deliver.

(13:24):
So that's something I reallyappreciated professionally and
then personally as well.
You know, at the time I wasstill in my twenties, I didn't
have kids yet A lot of people onthat team of Google were in a
similar place and Eric reallyfostered this environment where
we'd have these great teamactivities and off sites and
things.
And Eric always invited me andhe didn't have to like it came

(13:46):
out of his budget, you know, toinvite me someone who was not
part of his headcount, but thatwas something that helped me
really personally andprofessionally to excel at
Google and so that's something Ireally appreciated as well.

So his ability to be a straight shooter.
Can you expand a little bitmore on how that his honesty and
transparency helped shape yourperspective on performance and
personal growth and maybe evenhow you might deal with people
today?

In roles that I have had before.
I'll say this carefully it wasreally easy to just like walk
into a meeting with my managerzero preparation, answer some
questions, say things are goinggreat and move on.
But that would not fly withEric, because I guess he knew
the business so well that evenat the senior level he was at
that he expected you to know itas well.

(14:31):
And so knowing that he hadthose high expectations, not
just for me but for everyone onhis team, meant that we all felt
I don't want to say pressure, Iguess, yeah, pressure to meet
those high expectations he setfor us.
So it wasn't that he was tryingto drill us or make us feel
insecure.
It was like I hired you becauseI know that you're the kind of
person who can deliver topperformance and top results.

(14:53):
So you better meet me there,you know, and that that was
something that I reallyappreciate and that I absolutely
think of now, whether it's withmy coaching clients who are,
you know, agencies trying toacquire new clients, or, you
know, the small business ownertrying to make it work.
You know when do I need toemploy a more Eric-like you know
tact of being really direct andstraight and challenging versus

(15:16):
when.
Do I maybe need to lean into atotally different methodology of
being more of the like bestfriend?
Yeah, let's have our small talkand this and that.
Like Eric, meetings did nothave small talk.
Meeting starts straight tobusiness and you know now, with
some of my clients, that'sabsolutely what I do.
With others it's not what I do,but I have definitely learned
how to do that more effectivelyhaving had a mentor like Eric.

So, being a Google Ads coach, I assume a lot of it
is actually coaching, but you'resaying there is room to be more
of a mentor and leading peoplerather than tell them what to do
.

Yeah, it really depends on the client.
You know, some people will justbook the call with me and they
have a list of questions theyneed answered and they answer
them and good day, and I neversee them again, a-okay.
There are other people,especially freelancers and
people who work at agencies andactually some people at agencies
who, like they're the team leadat their agency, who I meet
with more regularly, eithermonthly or bi-weekly, and so

(16:10):
well, of course we talk abouttactical Google ads things we
also then get into.
You know, how would youapproach this situation?
Or you know, here's a challengeI'm facing in this client
management.
Can we talk through somepotential approaches?
And so that's where, even in myjob as a coach, it can veer more
into mentorship.
And then there are people whoare not coaching clients at all,
who I get to mentor.

(16:31):
You know I have a wonderfulassistant in my business, my
right-hand woman, who makeseverything happen, and I mentor
her as well, and you know shehas shared with me how much I've
helped her grow in her businessthat she's running as well.
So that's also very rewarding,even beyond just the Google Ads
coaching.

Cool.
So talk about mentorship.
What are the three keys tomentorship success?

Three keys to mentorship success.
Well, I think the first thingand again something that was
instilled in me back in businessschool is to ask more questions
.
It can be really tempting whensomeone's coming to you asking
for you to mentor them, to getthem advice, do this and do that
, and here's what you should do,but I find the most effective

(17:12):
relationships I have withmentees are when they actually
do most of the talking ratherthan me doing all the talking,
and then, I guess, kind of abuild on that.
The second thing is that I liketo think of myself and a mentor
as a mirror reflecting back toyou.
You know, I'm not some wiseoracle on a hill who magically
has all the answers.
I may have some of the answers,but it's really important to me

(17:33):
to let my mentees find theirown way.
You know I'm here to shine alight, to guide, to reflect, but
it's so much more effective ifsomeone can be brought to a
conclusion themselves versusjust being told what to do, and
so that's something that Ireally try to think about as
well in mentorship.
And then I guess the third one,which we spoke about a little

(17:54):
earlier, is just bringing theenergy that the mentee needs.
You know there are some peoplefor whom straight to the point
or tough love is going to work.
There are others who want totalk about feelings and emotions
and that's going to help themdo a better job.
And so you know, I would neverwant to ask one of my mentees to
adapt themselves to me, theirmentor.

(18:15):
It's the other way around.
Like I need to read the room,you know, reflect back and then
position myself and react tothem in a way that will be most
helpful, and it can be.
You know, sometimes in ameeting I'll swear a lot to
match the energy of the personI'm with, because that's
something that builds trust andrapport, whereas there are other
clients I would not swear atall.
That would be an absolute, thatwould kill the vibe, you know.

(18:38):
So it's just those littlethings of picking up what's
going to make someone feel morecomfortable and trying to, of
course, not change mypersonality but just adapt and
flex into different areas ofmyself so that I can be what
they need to advance and grow.

I love that recipe.
Those three ingredients arevery, very good.
Tasty recipe, very tasty.
I'm hungry so I'm fasting today, so that's why I'm like I'm
thinking about food, you know.
So, given your history atGoogle, could you share what
initially drew you to Google Adsand how your experience at
Google shaped your approach toadvertising?

What initially drew me to Google Ads
was actually a previous businessI ran.
I worked as a side hustle as anMBA admissions consultant.
So this is something I didwhile at Viacom and then while
at Google, before starting thisbusiness is I would help people
apply to business school, kindof edit their essays and coach
them and things like that.
And so when I was running thatbusiness I dabbled a little in

(19:31):
AdWords, as it was called, thendid not see any results, as
often happens with newadvertisers and then ended up
applying to Google, again on awhim kind of a theme in my
career.
But I was working in New Yorkat the time.
My husband, who was British,could no longer work in the
States, so we decided we weregoing to move back to Canada.
Had no idea what I was going todo for work in Toronto because,

(19:54):
although I grew up here, Ihadn't lived here in a decade
and I saw that Google had anoffice here and I've always
loved Google products andthought why don't I just apply?
What's the worst that couldhappen?
And I was just right placed.
I applied to one role, didn'tget that one, but then
interviewed for another role.
Didn't get that one, but theninterviewed for another role,
and then my resume landed onEric's desk because they
happened to be trying to findsomeone who could fill this

(20:17):
international growth consultantthing, and so once I worked at
Google, then I was like, oh, Ibetter learn Google Ads.
Initially resisted, though, andthat's what's really interesting
about it.
Google, you know, it's a salesteam, and so in order to sell
Google ads, it's not aprerequisite to use Google ads,

(20:37):
and so I was using all the fancytools and resources and
narratives we had.
But it wasn't until I'd been atGoogle for about four months
that I asked a friend of mine onthe team for some help coming
up with opportunities for aclient meeting, and we had
various tools to do this.
But she said well, jill, likewhat did you see in the account?
I'm like what do you mean?
She's like what did you see inthe account?
I'm like what do you mean?
She's like we'll open up theiraccount to find opportunities.

(20:59):
And I was like how do I open uptheir account?
She's like Jill, you've workedhere for four months.
Are you telling me you've neveropened a client's Google Ads
account?
I'm like well, that wasn't partof the training.
No one ever.
I have this dashboard and thistool.
So she showed me how to open anaccount I could open any Google
Ads account in the world whileI was with Google, fun fact.
But we opened my client'saccount and she just started

(21:20):
walking me through navigatingthe interface like a wizard
seemingly at the time, showingme all the places she was
looking and all theseopportunities she was finding.
And something clicked in me andI got this new excitement like,
oh my gosh, this makes sense tomy brain, I can do this.
And I became obsessed.
And then I became one of thefew people on my team, on my
international team, who actuallyopened Google Ads and used

(21:43):
Google Ads, and I've just I'vebeen hooked ever since.

That's so cool.
Can you discuss a particularlychallenging project that you've
worked on and what you learnedfrom it?

I would say it would be launching my Inside
Google Ads membership course.
I launched that after I'd beenin business about a year, so I
left Google in May 2021, startedposting videos on TikTok, ended
up going viral after 10 daysand that's how my business began
.
I was managing ads for people,but I knew pretty quickly that I
didn't want my business to be abusiness of, like me, managing

(22:13):
ads for clients.
I did not like clientmanagement.
Like there's a reason, you know, I wanted to get away from that
and people kept asking me tolaunch a Google Ads course.
You know, jill, you explainedthings so well.
Can you make a course?
And I thought, why would I dothat?
Google Skill Shop exists.
That's what I'd say every time.
Google already has courses, whywould I do it?
And then I decided I wanted tobecome a Google partner, and in

(22:34):
order to become a Google partner, you need to get certified.
So I went and did thecertifications and thought, oh
my gosh, these are terrible.
I get what everyone's beensaying now.
These are terrible.
I get why people have beenasking me for a course and I
decided to build one and Ilaunched it.
It was 2-2-22, february 2nd 2022, I picked as my launch date,
and so I think you know one ofthe really challenging things

(22:56):
about that was just getting overthe imposter syndrome of what
business do I have launching aGoogle Ads course and instead
thinking you know what?
This doesn't need to be thefanciest course, it doesn't need
to be the most advanced course,but I know now from the work
I'm doing that I have somethingvaluable to teach people.
So you know that was number one.
Number two was getting over thehurdle of I had never launched

(23:18):
a course.
At that time I didn't knowanyone who'd launched a course.
I didn't know there werecourses you could take about
launching a course.
So I was just figuring it allout as I went, and that was when
I developed my mantra done isbetter than perfect.
You know this lesson.
I may say I'm in awe in it, andthis landing page may be ugly,
but you know what?
And this landing page may beugly, but you know what?
Done is better than perfect.
Let's launch it and we can justfix it later.

(23:40):
Learned a lot through thatprocess.
The course has evolved a lotsince then, but I'm really glad
I did it.
There absolutely was a place inthe market for a new Google,
let's course, and I've had morethan 400 people join since then,
so I'm very glad I just did it.

Are you still on TikTok?

I am still on TikTok, though I would say it's
not my primary platform, theway it used to be.
I still post short form videocontent two to three times a
week on TikTok, Instagram,Pinterest, YouTube and LinkedIn.
I knew I was going to forgetone, but over the last year I've
become much more interested inand focused on, LinkedIn as my
primary platform rather thanTikTok as my primary platform.

(24:19):
But, that being said, Irepurpose, repurpose, repurpose
like crazy.
So you know, every TikTok,every TikTok video gets reused
in many ways.
Every LinkedIn post gets reusedin many ways.
Tiktok isn't as much my likecore social media platform the
way it used to be.

So for someone just starting out, let's say, if
they wanted to start a course orreally, it's really about any
business what would you say aresome of the first steps they
should take to establish a solidonline presence?

Before you figure out what you want to
offer, figure out who you wantto talk to.
It's so tempting to say, like Iwant to start a business, what
should my product be?
Or I want to speak with, who doI want to work with?
And then, once you pick yourtarget audience, you can say

(25:05):
what problem do I want to solvefor them?
And then, once you have anaudience and a problem you want
to solve, your offer and the wayyou market it becomes much more
clear.
So that's one piece of advice Iwould give is like start with
the customer and your offer, andwhat you're going to do comes
so much later in the process.
And I think one more piece ofadvice I'll give is you do not
need to do everything everywhereall at once when you're
creating content.
There's written content andthere's video content, and I

(25:26):
know Instagram and Pinteresthave image-based content, but
even that I'd consider it'seither written or it's a video.
So are you more comfortablewriting or are you more
comfortable recording video?
I would say most peopleencounter it's writing.
So just start with that.
Start on a text-based platform.
Try to post once a week.
Okay, you can do thatconsistently Now.
Try to post twice a week.
And then, once you have alibrary of 12 to 20 posts, guess

(25:48):
what?
You read, that post to cameraand boom, you have a video.
So just start in one place andthen you can expand and reuse
and repurpose over and overagain.
But that whole engine doesn'tstart unless you just post the
dang content.

Yeah, I find a lot of people have that issue of
just getting to start and it'sweird because, like for us who
are posting multiple times aweek, it's like a no-brainer to
just post once a week, but formost people it's like this hill
that they just don't even know,like you mean, I actually need
to post once a week, but formost people it's like this hill
that they just don't even know,like you mean, I actually need
to post once a week.

It's crazy and actually something you can
even do before that.
If the idea of postingsomething on LinkedIn or
uploading YouTube video isterrifying, then just start by
commenting intelligently onother people's posts.
So maybe you go through yourfeed and don't comment.
You know rocket emojiexclamation mark and be done
Like, share a thoughtfulresponse to someone else's post,

(26:40):
or do a stitch or a video replyto someone else's video.
I call that.
It's like you know, when youwalk into a dinner party, you
hopefully don't walk into thefront door and say hello, my
name is Jill, come by my courses.
Like you walk in the door, youapproach a group that's already
talking and you listen and yousee what they're talking about
and you may add a thought or twoas you join the conversation.
And it's the same in socialplatforms Join those existing

(27:03):
conversations.
Do that to understand the layof the land, to understand what
people are talking about, wherethe gaps are, and then you can
start to build your own originalcontent from there.

So you may be biased with this specific
question, but what role doespaid advertising play in
building a brand online,especially for startups or small
?

businesses Very little.
There are not biased verylittle.
When you're first gettingstarted.
Even though I make a livingteaching people about Google ads
, I would say Google ads have noplace.
When you're just starting abusiness, ads should be the fuel
on your organic fire.
So you know, if you have thebudget to test your messaging
and test your creative with adsby all means, but most people do

(27:42):
not have the budget to do that.
So test organically firstwhether that's social media,
whether that's your SEO, whetherit's literally like going out
and talking to people, whetherit's joining Slack groups and
commenting and asking questionsthere.
Start organically, find whatresonates and then put ad
dollars behind what resonates.
You know, when I got started onTikTok, initially I didn't post

(28:03):
on TikTok because I didn't thinkanyone there cared about Google
ads.
But then one day I wasscrolling, scrolling and this
video came up from someone whowas like a e-commerce influencer
, I guess.
But she had done this one videoabout Google ads ad extensions,
as they were called and it had10,000 views and it blew my mind
10,000 people on TikTok inApril 2021 watched a video about

(28:26):
ad extensions.
Okay, there's space for me here.
And the first video I posted onTikTok, I think, got like 100
views and I was over the moon,so that 10 days later, when I
posted a video that got 100,000views overnight, it was just
like, okay, I've really hit onsomething here, yeah, yeah, but
you got to just post the content.

So what about the counter argument that organic
like just takes a while,sometimes people don't go viral
and therefore trying out paidbecause the results will be a
little bit more quick.

That can work .
I guess the counterpoint Iwould say is, if your organic
content is not resonating and bythat I mean it's not reaching
your target audience, or it'sreaching your target audience
but not motivating them to takeaction then why would putting
money behind it do any better?
You know that's good.
So if you want to put again, ifyou have the budget to put paid

(29:18):
behind your unproven offer andyour unproven messaging to test
it, by all means go ahead and doso.
But most of the business ownerswho I meet with when I do some
more marketing coaching ratherthan Google Ads coaching, or
they book the Google Adscoaching call and I say actually
I don't think you should runGoogle Ads.
It's because they haven'tvalidated who their target
audience is, they haven'tvalidated the messaging that

(29:40):
resonates with them, or theymaybe have done those two things
, but then the offer doesn'tmeet the expectation Eight times
out of 10, the way to have ahigher ROAS, a higher return on
investment in Google ads, hasnothing to do with Google ads.
It's having a better website,it's having a better offer and
that's going to make your adsseem more profitable.
So if you want to spend moneyon ads from day one by all means

(30:01):
go for it.
Time and time again, I seethat's one of the most common
mistakes that new businessowners make is saying, oh, I
have to run ads when theyhaven't put the fundamentals in
place yet, and so it's just likelighting their money on fire.

So, as a content creator, how do you balance
providing value while alsopromoting your services?

I'm of the camp that you should give it all
away for free, that knowledgewants to be free and that
knowledge on its own is notvaluable.
Expertise is valuable and beingable to personalize that
knowledge for your own situationis what's valuable.
So that's why I shareeverything I know for free
online, and that is like honeythat attracts all the bees.
So that's why I shareeverything I know for free
online, and that is like honeythat attracts all the bees.

(30:39):
So then people come to me everysingle day dropping into my
inbox Can I hire you?
Can I hire you?
Can I hire you?
It's not the only way to build abusiness.
You know, I've talked to otherpeople who want to do what I do,
do not want to create contentat all, and that's fine.
Like, for example, I have onefriend.
He also used to work at Googleand he left and he does not want
to be a content creator.
So he went on Upwork and he wasable to stand out there and

(31:02):
completely built his ownbusiness getting clients on
Upwork, whereas for me, when Itried Upwork, I didn't get a
single client, you know.
So different strategies canwork for different people.
But if content creation is thething that you want to do, then
you just got to put yourself outthere.
Share a ton of value,demonstrate your expertise and
the people will hire you, eitherfor the execution or to

(31:22):
personalize that expertise totheir situation, or because they
want to save time by not doingit themselves.
But give it all away for freeis my mentality when it comes to
your expertise.

So a little bit earlier you spoke about kind of
figuring out who you want to goafter.
So do you have some adviceabout helping people determine
who to target and then how tosegment their audiences?

The first piece of advice I would give is
to go really super specific withwho you want to reach.
That's another common mistake.
I see oh, my target audience ismoms.
Like that's a lot of people ifyou're trying to target all moms
.
And so it was something Ithought about when I was
launching my Inside Google Adscourse.
Like, who is the targetcustomer for this course?

(32:06):
Because it's not for justanyone who would want to run ads
, and if you try to pick toomany target customers, you know
you try to appeal to everyone,you end up appealing to no one,
unless you're Coca-Cola orL'Oreal.
So for me at least, when Ilaunched the course, I decided
to have two very specificcustomers in mind, and I chose
them because, based on mycontent and my clients, I knew
that that's who I was resonatingwith and I don't resonate with

(32:29):
everyone.
And so one was small businessowners who have been working
with an agency or freelancer tomanage their ads, but it's
expensive and it's not gettingthe results they want, and so
they want to gain the confidenceto manage their ads on their
own.
That's a really specificaudience, right?
It's not just small businessowners.
And then the second audience Istarted with was meta ads

(32:50):
practitioners, whose clients areasking them to offer Google ad
services as well, and so theywant to add Google ad services
to their portfolio.
So two really differentaudiences, two very specific
audiences, and now I have, youknow, members who are much more
than that.
But that's what I really startedwith and created content to
resonate with initially.
So I'd say, the more specificyou are with who you're trying

(33:11):
to reach, the more likely youare to have your content
resonate with them.
Because now, if I'm a smallbusiness owner and I just see
content like all smallbusinesses should use Google Ads
, okay, yeah, whatever.
But if I see a video of like,if you're a small business owner
feeling overwhelmed by GoogleAds you're debating, can I
really do this myself?
You know I'm here to tell youyou can like wow, that speaks

(33:32):
exactly to me.
Okay, I'm going to tune in.
So it's better to speak tofewer people but speak to them
really well, rather than, youknow, trying to speak to
everyone.
When you're trying to initiallydefine that audience,
specificity is key.

But I think like it makes so much sense.
But it's easy to say onceyou've been successful.
I think it's hard at thebeginning to niche down, don't
you think so?

I agree.
I actually just had a callabout this yesterday with
someone who's booked twocoaching calls with me because
she wants to do what I do, like.
So it wasn't Google adscoaching.
She's a Google ads practitionerwho wants to start her own
business and she was having thesame conversation and say, no, I
handed a niche down, so maybemy niche will be Google ads for
lead generation, like, that'snot a niche.
Every Google Ads practitioneris either e-commerce or lead

(34:17):
generation.
Go deeper, go deeper, you know.
So we looked at what are thedifferent kinds of clients she's
worked with.
What industry expertise doesshe have?
Which ones does she enjoyworking with?
Which ones does she not enjoyworking with?
And so through that I won'treveal what the niches that we
chose, but it was like a veryspecific industry where she's
had a few clients, has thisreally deep expertise and

(34:37):
understanding, and she has apersonal connection to that
industry.
That really resonates and I'mlike, well, because of the
personal story you have here andthe experience you can have,
anyone in that industry whocomes across you they're going
to hire you.
And then anyone else who comesacross you maybe they'll hire
you, maybe you won't, but you'regoing to speak so specifically
there, it's going to be great.
So I know it can feel scarywhen you're trying to start a

(34:59):
business to narrow the pool, butby narrowing the focus you'll
be able to see much more clearlyand people will be able to see
you much more clearly if they'reyour target audience.

But when you have two audiences, let's say like
you do, how do you make sureespecially, I'm imagining, on
LinkedIn how do you make surethat people know that you're
both?
But because, like some of thetimes, you post about one or the
other, how do you kind ofbalance that?

So what I did when I was, you know, getting
started with the strategies, Iuse my different platforms
differently.
So for me, my TikTok andInstagram is where I speak to
small business owners, whereasLinkedIn and, at the time,
twitter though I'm not thereanymore was where I spoke to,
like fellow marketers, and byhaving this different messaging
on different platforms, I wasable to reach those two

(35:43):
audiences in different ways.
So, starting my business, youknow, I was only on TikTok, I
was only speaking to newbusiness owners, and then I was
speaking about Google Ads,google Analytics and free Google
tools at the time.
So then, once I got thingsreally going on TikTok, I was
like well, I can repurpose allof my TikToks onto YouTube but
then also create someYouTube-specific content.

(36:04):
I think my first one was how toset up a search campaign on
YouTube which would speak tothat same audience, but in kind
of a deeper way, and so I reallystuck with that video new
business owner, small businessowner audience.
But at a certain point I thought, you know, if I want to grow my
business the way I want to growmy business, I need to go into
people who have bigger budgets,because you know what?
New business owners don't havebig budgets for ads or maybe, as

(36:24):
I discovered, shouldn't alwaysbe running ads.
And so that's when I decided Ineed to speak to some fellow
marketers, whether it's otherGoogle Ads practitioners I can
coach or advise, whether it'smeta ads practitioners or SEOs
who want to get into Google ads.
And so I decided to get moreinto LinkedIn and Twitter
because I felt like that's wherethose communities already are
and I can tap into that.
But it required differentcontent.
You're sharing three tips tolaunch a search campaign might

(36:48):
appeal to some meta adspractitioners, but that wasn't
going to help me stand out there.
And so when I first got intokind of PPC chat, google ads,
twitter at the time I hadunpopular opinions from an
ex-Googler.
It was a series I did and it gota lot of attention and it's how
I ended up meeting like AmaliaFowler, who's now one of my
closest friends.
But it was through like thecomments on posts like that.
And now I have all thesedifferent platforms and all

(37:09):
these different kinds of content.
But you know from day one, oneplatform, one message, one
audience, and test it and it maywork and it may not work.
You know, I get fortunate thatsomething resonated.
There I hit on something thatworked.
It may not work for you, sookay, you give it a month or two
.
It's not working.
Try something different.
You've lost a bit of time, butokay, try a different audience,
try a different message.

See what works next , I promise that, if you're also
moving into, I would say,traditional Google Ads marketers
within agencies and trainingthem as well or coaching them as
well.

Absolutely.
That's something that was noteven on my radar at the
beginning, but it's sort of likethe one client will reach out
well, do you do this?
Oh yeah, like that's how Istarted Google Ads coaching.
I was just doing Google Adsmanagement and one person
reached out.
I didn't have capacity.
He said, okay, well, do you doconsulting?
The answer is always yes tothat question, by the way, and
yes, of course I do.

(38:12):
And so I consulted for this onelaw firm and I thought, oh, I
really liked that.
So I started talking in mycontent about I was on a
consulting call and then, youknow, more of them came and it
snowballed from there.
It's the same way I started myMBA admissions consulting
business.
I had written this blog postfor this MBA admissions website
and in the comments someonecommented Jill, do you do MBA
admissions consulting?
The answer is always yes.
I just wanted yes, and thatperson didn't become my first

(38:32):
client, but someone else who sawthat comment became my first
client and I started a businessoff of that.
So people say do you do this,do you do that?
Can you help me with this?
If you want the answer to beyes, the answer is yes, there
you go.
That's business.

So, with consulting and your course, how do you
stay relevant with regards tothe actual platform and what to
do?
Are you managing some accounts?
How do you kind of balance that?

It was something I was really concerned
about when I fired my lastGoogle Ads management client
after a year in business becauseI didn't want to be in.
You know how am I going to stayup to date on things?
But it's interesting becausenow, as a coach and consultant,
I see anywhere from six to 12different Google Ads accounts a
week across industries acrossthe world.
So while I'm not personallyresponsible for the dollars, I

(39:16):
don't get emergency calls on theweekend that there's some kind
of Google Ads emergency.
That's why I didn't want to bein client management anymore.
But I have access to so manydifferent accounts, I'm seeing
so many different accounts andI'm testing so many different
things because I'm advisingdifferent strategies.
And then we have the follow-upand what happened and what did
we learn?
That's why I'm really able tostay up to date.
And then I also am honest atwhat I don't know, Like, for

(39:37):
example, I haven't managed anapp campaign in two years.
I've only had one coachingclient in the last few years who
does apps.
So if someone says to me like,oh, can you help me with my app
campaign, I'll say no, I'm notthe right person for you to hire
.
Or like vehicle listing ads,never used them before, so, like
I'll refer you to someone, I'mnot the right person to help you
with that.
So that's you know.

(39:57):
It's okay to say yes toopportunities if you want them,
but then also it's okay to sayno if you don't want them or
don't feel like you're the rightperson to help.
And I think that's somethingthat takes confidence to build
the ability to say no inbusiness.
Like the first time I fired aclient oh, terrifying, I
couldn't sleep the night beforeand now I feel very comfortable
saying nope, not the right fitto work with you.

Can you tell us about your upcoming book that
will publish this year InsideGoogle Ads everything you need
to know about audience targeting?

Yes, I'm so excited to be publishing it this
year, either in March or April2025.
It'll be available on Amazonpaperback and ebook.
I actually started writing thisbook back in 2022.
I got a stroke of inspirationone evening and just started
typing away furiously.
I tell the story in theintroduction of the book so I
won't spoil the whole thing.
It's not that great a story,but anyway I started writing it

(40:47):
and for like 10 days I justwrote, wrote, wrote, wrote,
wrote and then I was goingthrough IVF at the time was very
fortunate to get pregnant, youknow and then life happens
pregnant and then maternityleave, and then we moved and and
so, coming into 2024, one of mygoals that I set with my
assistant or business planningwas I'm publishing my book in
2024, blocked off the wholesummer to work on it, did not

(41:10):
even open the file once allsummer, but then September hit
and I had this huge rush ofenergy, wrote most of it in
September, procrastinated a bitthrough October, november and
then finally finished it inDecember.
So it's really an overview ofevery single kind of audience
targeting Google ads, how theywork, how they can work, for you
mistakes to avoid things I'velearned, but then also expanding

(41:31):
into.
You know what all the recentchanges around audiences and
Google ads can tell us aboutwhere Google ads is going.
So it's educational.
Sure, it's kind of thatreference guide for audiences.
But then I also want to makesure I took it to the next level
and offered something that youcan't just Google.
You know what is the future ofcustom segments, what's the
future of combined segments,what do cookie changes mean for

(41:51):
audience targeting?
So those are the kind of thingsI wanted to explore in my book
in a way that you can't reallyexplore in a LinkedIn post.
You know social mediaalgorithms don't reward deep
thought and discussion.
So that was another motivationfor wanting a book to really be
able to get into it with peoplewho enjoy getting you know deep

(42:11):
into these topics and why didyou choose the audience niche?
Audiences are magical, like.
It still blows my mind that wehave audience targeting and I
guess I should define that likethe the ability to show ads to
people based on who they are,based on what Google knows about
them you know they're notnecessarily searching or typing
into the magic white box whatthey're looking for, but based

(42:32):
on this amalgamation of alltheir online behavior, we know
who are the value shoppers orthe luxury shoppers.
We know who's in the market fornew shoes.
We know who's in the market fora stroller, we know who
recently bought a house like andwe can show ads to them that
specifically resonate with themand have the right messaging,
and I just think it's so cool.
So it's partly it's just alwaysbeen a personal interest of mine

(42:53):
.
I see them work so effectivelythrough the more than 400
coaching calls I've done overthe last four years of my
business.
You know so many people don'teven know you can do this in
Google ads, so that wasabsolutely a motivation.
And then it's an area that'sreally been changing a lot,
especially in the last year.
Alongside, you know, changes inAI, privacy changes, and so

(43:17):
that's what made it feel like,even though I started the book
in 2022 and finished it in 2025,still so ripe for exploration
because there's so much power,so much change and I felt like
that just deserves 40,000 wordsto explore.

And as things continue to change, how do you
plan on updating it, do you oris it more like?
This is a work and it will bewhat it is.

Absolutely updating it.
I worked with a professionaldesigner to design the cover
before I finished the manuscriptand it says first edition right
there.
So this is the first edition.
I will be updating it.
One thing I decided early on wasI wasn't going to include any
screenshots in the book, becausewe know how quickly those can
change and Inside Google Adscourse has that.
So of course, the course andthe book will pair very nicely

(43:55):
together, but you don't have tohave one to get value out of the
other.
So the second edition you knowwill be updated and I'm planning
to add more books to the series.
So this is Inside Google Adseverything you need to know
about audience targeting.
I'm planning for the next bookto be Inside Google Ads
everything you need to knowabout keywords and content
targeting.
And then I think third bookwill be everything you need to
know about bidding.

(44:15):
But I just submitted themanuscript last week so I gave
myself a little break before Istart working on book number two
.
Actually, the way we designedthe spines of the book, we were
intentional that if you havethem lined up on your bookshelf
they'll work together as aseries.
So I'm nerding out over thoselittle details.

No, it's awesome.
It's like when I teach everyoneabout UTM tracking.
I'm like you have to thinkabout not about your campaign
today, but how are you going todo your campaigns in a year from
now?
And that's exactly what you'redoing.
Well, it's so lovely to speakwith you, jill.
You are so impressive.
Really, you are superimpressive.
I feel like you're someone tolook up to, with your successes
and how you approach life andbusiness.

(44:57):
It's so cool to get to know youa little bit now and I hope we
get to know each other more inthe future.

Thank you so much, danny.
I really appreciate that.
I guess one thing I'll say tothat is I have achieved a.
I have achieved a lot in mycareer and I am really proud of
myself.
But you know, this conversationtoday is me looking with
hindsight and telling my storyin a way that, of course, is
very impressive.
So I just want to say, you know, if you're listening, oh my
gosh, I could never do that.
Like yeah, there were a lot ofstumbles as well that were not

(45:25):
part of the conversation today.
So just keep at it, wake up anew day and post the dang
content, awesome.

Well, thank you so much for being a guest on the
Digital Marketing Mentor andthank you, listeners, for tuning
into the Digital MarketingMentor.
We'll speak with you next time.
Thank you for listening to theDigital Marketing Mentor podcast
.
Be sure to check us out onlineat thedmmentorcom and at
thedmmentor on Instagram, anddon't forget to subscribe on
Apple Podcasts, spotify orwherever you listen to your

(45:56):
podcasts for more marketingmentor magic.
See you next time.

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