March 19, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode, Danny dissects the intricacies of paid advertising with Grace Glass, Paid Social Media Strategist at Optidge. She shares her expertise in balancing creative and strategic elements to build high-performing campaigns, especially for beginners. Tune in to gain valuable insights on ad budget allocation, testing methodologies, campaign optimization, segmentation strategies, and common pitfalls to avoid for beginners.
An Optidge "Office Hours" Episode
Our Office Hours episodes are your go-to for details, how-to’s, and advice on specific marketing topics. Join our fellow Optidge team members, and sometimes even 1:1 teachings from Danny himself, in these shorter, marketing-focused episodes every few weeks. Get ready to get marketing!
Episode Highlights:
- Grace explains the difference between paid and organic social – emphasizing that paid social is necessary due to declining organic reach.
- This episode with Grace takes a closer look at why Meta is the best platform for beginners to start paid social due to its diverse audience targeting capabilities.
- In Grace’s opinion, creative elements are one of the most crucial factors in ad performance as platforms increasingly automate audience targeting.
- She urges businesses to focus on conversions and cost-efficiency rather than vanity metrics like clicks.
- The episode shares through discussion and examples how regularly testing and optimizing ad creatives, audience segments, and budgets is key to a successful paid social campaign.
Episode Links:
🔗 Website: About Optidge
🔗 LinkedIn: /in/graceglass/
Follow The Digital Marketing Mentor:
- Website and Blog: thedmmentor.com
- Instagram: @thedmmentor
- Linkedin: @thedmmentor
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Interested in Digital Marketing Services, Careers, or Courses? Check out more from the TDMM Family:
- Optidge.com - Full Service Digital Marketing Agency specializing in SEO, PPC, Paid Social, and Lead Generation efforts for established B2C and B2B businesses and organizations.
- ODEOacademy.com - Digital Marketing online education and course platform. ODEO gives you solid digital marketing knowledge to launch/boost your career or understand your business’s digital marketing strategy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor.
I'm your host, danny Gavin.
Together with industry leadersand marketing experts, we'll
explore the meeting point ofmentorship and marketing.
We'll discover how theseconnections have affected
careers, marketing strategiesand lives.
Now get ready to get human.
Hello, I'm Danny Gavin, founderof Optige, a marketing
(00:36):
professor, the host of theDigital Marketing Mentor.
Get ready to get human to theactual creative and especially
creative.
She combines strategic thinkingwith her creative flair to
create attention-grabbing,high-performing ads across all
social media platforms.
Grace has a master's inmarketing, plus certifications
in digital marketing, digitalmarketing analytics and brand
management.
And what's even more specialand really cool is, grace is one
(00:58):
of the people who helped designthe paid social media courses
both at the University ofHouston and at Odeo.
So Grace is here with us todayto discuss paid social
advertising.
Grace, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm doing great.
How are you doing today, Danny?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'm doing really well .
Good, all right, so let's jumpright in.
I know this is starting fromthe beginning, but what is paid
social?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Paid social is all the little ads that come across
your screen as you're scrollingall the different paid social
platforms that exist out thereyour tiktoks, your instagrams,
facebooks, all of it and itincludes whatsapp.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Actually, a lot of people don't realize that
interesting and so obviouslythese social media platforms
have advertisements and I assumethat's the way a lot of them
make money, correct?
So how does it differ fromorganic social media marketing
when we say paid social mediaversus organic social?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
media oh, I love this one, okay.
So organic social media is allthe posts that brands make that
are curated and beautiful, ontheir Instagram feeds or on
their Facebook pages, and italso involves a really heavy
amount of interacting withcustomers.
So, basically, customer service, where if somebody has a
(02:11):
problem with your product oryour service, the first thing
they're going to do is messageyou on Instagram or Twitter or
something.
And so the organic socialpeople have this really unique
balance of 50%.
People have this really uniquebalance of 50% marketing and 50%
customer service.
They are the unsung heroes ofthe digital marketing world 100%
(02:33):
.
And then, on the paid side, it'sa lot more about managing
overarching campaigns that aredriving toward a very specific
result.
So, for example, really tryingto push one particular sale or
one particular product that'sdebuting, and all of the money
and the focus and the resourcesare going to marshal behind that
(02:57):
, and it really doesn't have todo with speaking on behalf of
the brand to customers and itreally doesn't have anything to
do with engagement orintroducing yourself to new
people.
It's really more about thoselike, at least at Optage, the
way we do it.
It's really a lot more aboutdriving those hard conversions
that get to the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Awesome.
And one thing I would add alsois in organic social media,
often the reason you see certainposts are going to be based off
of the algorithm and,potentially, tags that people
are using and engagement, whilewith paid social, it's more
about pay to play right.
So when you're actually payingfor your ad to be seen, so then
people will be seeing it.
It's not necessarily aboutmaking sure you hit the
(03:39):
algorithm or not.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
There's a lot more trying toplay the algorithm in organic
than there used to be.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, we know about those algorithms, especially in
Google.
Yeah, so why do you thinknowadays paid social is such an
important part of a digitalmarketing strategy and,
technically, just a marketingstrategy in general?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
First of all, there's only so far that your organic
social can take you.
These days, in the old days,like a long time ago, maybe 10,
15 years ago, you used to postand everybody who was following
you would probably see your postand maybe the people who were
following them might see if theyengaged with it and it could
spread really naturally, reallywell on, say, a Facebook or an
(04:26):
Instagram.
But these days, meta reallywants you to pay for that,
everybody wants you to pay forthat reach, and so if you post
on organic social, it might notreach anybody, it might not even
reach the people who arefollowing you.
And so just to reach the peoplewho are already your customers,
(04:48):
let alone people who aren'tyour customers yet, you're going
to need to pay up just a littlebit, just a little, to get out
there.
And then, as it pertains toGoogle, or like an organic or
paid Google strategy, I wouldsay that Google is great for
people who already know theyhave a problem and maybe they
(05:13):
even already know about yoursolution to their problem.
But if they aren't aware thatthey have the problem yet which
is kind of a funny idea butimagine like they may not
realize that their windows areso thin that they let all the
cold in and that there arebetter windows out there.
Like they just may not know theoptions out there.
(05:35):
They're not going to know to goout searching for a solution to
that problem, and so sometimesit's nice to be able to slide in
wherever they're spending theirtime and attention, whether
it's Instagram or TikTok, andjust say hey, did you know that
there are better windows outthere and your electricity bills
could be lower and you could bemore comfortable?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So you mentioned Meta , which these days Meta means
Facebook and Instagram.
Why, when approaching paidsocial, would we focus primarily
, or at least in the beginning,on meta?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
We always think of meta as the first stop shop for
paid social at Optage, andthat's because it may not have
everybody in the world onFacebook or Instagram, but every
type of customer is going to beon Facebook or Instagram.
Broadly speaking, whether you'retrying to reach, like moms or
(06:33):
small business owners, or maybeyou're trying to reach you know
people with master's degrees whoare looking for you know
something for their job, like abusiness to business application
that they need to make theirjobs better.
You're going to find everybodyon one of those two platforms,
or every type of persona on oneof those two platforms, and so
(06:57):
it's a great base to start with,and then from there you can
branch out to other platformswhere things kind of niche out a
little bit more.
Maybe on Nextdoor you'relooking for homeowners, and
maybe on LinkedIn you're lookingfor somebody with a certain job
title, but everybody also hasan Instagram account or Facebook
account.
You're going to find them theretoo.
So when you're working with alimited budget, it really helps
(07:19):
to have one place where you canstart.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
And often, especially at Optage, we work.
We work with a lot of companiesthat you know these aren't the
companies that are spending abillion dollars in digital
marketing here but I feel veryspecific budgets and therefore
it makes sense to start therefirst.
Exactly, a little bit earlier,you mentioned that the way we
approach paid social is usuallylike we have a goal in mind, a
very specific point.
So what are some of the goalsthat businesses try to achieve
(07:45):
with paid social?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You can do anything with paid social.
That's one of the beautifulparts about it.
But our most typical campaignswill be purchases.
So if you're selling somethingon a website, we can promote it
on paid social and directlyattribute that sale from our
campaign straight to the website.
(08:06):
The two talk to each other.
That's really important forpaid social Leads.
So maybe you work for a businessor you have a client who they
sell something like mortgages orsomething where nobody buys a
mortgage online necessarily.
There's paperwork and in-personthings that have to happen.
So it's a lot harder toattribute that success of one ad
(08:31):
or another to whether or notsomebody signed up for a
mortgage.
But if you say you offer them aguide to finding the best
mortgage rate for yourcircumstance like the best
mortgage rate for yourcircumstance and they are maybe
your customers willing to offeran email address or a phone
number and their name inexchange for that information,
(08:53):
then three or four months downthe line when they sign up for a
mortgage with your client orwith your company, you can see
that you got their name and yougot their email address and
that's the name and emailaddress of the person who just
applied for a mortgage with yourcompany, so you're able to show
whoever you're working for that.
You did a good Meta, so couldyou share with us, like, what
are those?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
types and, if there, if you have any thoughts on
specific types working betterfor specific goals.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
On Meta.
There are creative types suchas, like a static image, a video
GIFs, even carousels, where youhave to.
It's a bunch of static imagesand you click through them to
get to the end.
Those are the main creativetypes.
And then there are the calls toaction.
You can associate with them, sothings like you could have
(09:54):
somebody call, like, if yourcompany just wants phone calls
they're kind of old fashionedthat way then you could have the
call to action be called now.
Or you could even get messageson Instagram.
You can have Instagram messagesif that's how you wanted to go
through your leads.
There's lead gen forms andsending people to the website.
(10:15):
So there are lots of differentways you can mix and match an ad
type, especially on meta.
I think the question you'regetting at Dani for part two is
like is it true that only videoswork?
Now, because that's the rumor.
That's not what we found.
We found that static imageswork really well, actually like
(10:38):
surprisingly well.
But the truth is you just haveto test and see.
You're not going to know aheadof time.
Every account is different andI wish we could know ahead of
time that a certain ad type wasgoing to be the winning one, but
it's always a surprise and,honestly, it's never the one
you're expecting.
You'll go into it so confident,like this is the best video
(10:58):
I've ever made in my life, andthen the static image that you
worked on for five minutes justtakes off like a rocket ship.
Great, great, thank you.
You just never know.
You have to try, you have totest.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Any thoughts on one specific static ad versus a
carousel of, let's say, four tofive static ads?
Have you ever tested that out?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
We have tested that out and, at least for our
accounts, what we found is thatthe difference in performance
wasn't enough.
It didn't make up enough of thedifference in how much more
work a carousel is.
So, because a carousel might befour or five static images,
it's four or five times the workin developing those images but
(11:41):
also building the ads.
So it takes four or five timeslonger to make that ad, but
they're not four or five timesbetter in terms of the results
we get and we find that we'retypically, for our accounts,
better off doing four or fivestatic ads.
However, you can do really funthings with carousels, Like you
can tell stories.
(12:02):
You can do little.
Like you know, connect the dots, maps, like as if a person's
walking through.
I mean, there's, there are funthings you can do with carousels
.
It's the time investment for us, where it's just, it doesn't
pay off for us.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So along the same vein and connected to what you
said before about video, so itsounds like it's kind of a
balance between producing like areally good video and like
you're not even sure if that'sgoing to work really well.
So to me, in my mind, it's likeit's like a maybe when you are
creating a video created formore than just Facebook, so
therefore it's not just for that, or number two, maybe you do
(12:39):
like a more basic version of thevideo and once you know it
works, then maybe spend theextra money to make it excellent
.
I don't know if you have anyopinion on that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, it's the hardest part for me of my job
personally, because I am such adetails-oriented perfectionist.
I hate producing ads that arenot perfect, but we're an agency
and we need to make sure we'reusing our time efficiently, and
so sometimes you have to go withsomething that's good enough
(13:11):
and not the perfect thing.
You had in your mind, yourvision, your dream, and it's oh
it's.
It's heartbreaking too, becauseevery once in a while we'll get
the time to develop an ad thatwe love.
We did once for brian gavindiamonds actually, am I allowed
to say the company name, sinceit's your, your dad's company?
totally okay, great, uh, we didit once for brian gavin diamonds
(13:34):
.
We developed like this adorablemario themed ad where it was
like an, an off-brand, likewe're not gonna get sued version
of mario, and it's thisold-timey nintendo aesthetic
where he's like jumping andrunning and he's trying to get
to the perfect diamondengagement ring, like that's the
quest that he's on, and we wereso excited and we launched it
(13:56):
and I don't I don't thinkanybody about anything.
I don't even know if peoplewatched it.
I can't remember the watch timeon it, but it was so sad, we
were devastated.
And it just goes to show thateven if you have the time to
spend on the perfect ad, yourtime might be better spent
trying lots of differentconcepts than really doubling
down on your favorite, becauseyou just never know.
(14:18):
There's no accounting for taste, as my mom would say.
You never know what people aregoing to like and respond to and
it's usually not the thingyou're expecting.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's such an important insight.
Thank you for sharing.
So how does Meta's ad targetingwork?
So obviously you're creatingthese ads and you now want to
put them onto Meta, which wouldbe to show up on Facebook and
Instagram.
How do I target people so thatthey see my ads?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Hopefully you've done a little bit of introspection
ahead of time and you know whoyou're trying to reach.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
And then the next thing isyou'll go into the ads manager
and you'll open up their toolwhat's it called Audience
research tool?
Yeah, and is this easier with avisual?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
we could always add in a visual afterwards.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay.
Okay, so you'll go into the adsmanager and you'll begin the
process of building yourcampaign, and step two is where
you'll define your audience andin there you'll be able to
search for differentdemographics, like parents or
people who are single, orcertain age groups, things like
(15:29):
that.
You'll also be able to searchfor interests, so people who are
interested in dogs, or peoplewho really like baked goods,
things that could apply to whatyou're trying to promote and
you'll also be able to chooseregions.
So let's say, you are workingfor a business that is really
(15:50):
local and they really onlyservice a 10 mile radius around
their location.
You'll be able to go in andchoose that location so that
you're making sure that your adsaren't going out to everyone
everywhere all at once, rightwhere you want them.
That's physically how you goabout finding the audience you
want them.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
That's physically how you go about finding the
audience.
So there are, like I would say,imagine like you've got a bunch
of dials right or a bunch ofbuttons that you can turn in
order to find that exactaudience that you're looking for
.
But I think the key is, likeyou said before, that prep of
like okay, first understand whoyou're trying to target and then
, once you go into the meta adsmanager, you can try to say okay
, are there things there that Ican turn on right or turn to
(16:31):
where I can reach that audiencein the best way possible?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So you've mentioned Facebook ads manager outside of
you know, targeting and creatingthe ad.
Anything else that you want toadd to that?
About what else can we do withthe Facebook ads manager to?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
add to that about what else can we do with the
Facebook Ads Manager On thebuilding and launching side?
I would say you can also addlists of people.
So if you've got a pretty goodsize list so I think a thousand
is like the minimum number ofpeople you'd want on this list,
so a robust list you can uploadit and then Meta will do its
(17:08):
best to try to match the peopleon your list to profiles on
Facebook or Instagram.
And that's why they need somany names, because the match
rate's not excellent.
So there are going to be somethat they can't figure out who's
who and they can't match them.
But for the ones that they can,that can be a really powerful
way to retarget people who arealready your customers.
(17:28):
But it that can be a reallypowerful way to retarget people
who are already your customers.
But it could also be a reallygood way to find lookalikes of
people who are your customers.
So a lookalike is somebody whobehaves similarly online to your
customer and you can choose howsimilarly.
So a 1% is like a really tightmatch they're like basically
(17:51):
your person's twin and then a10% match is like everybody in
the world.
I don't know why you're evenmaking this look alike.
It's everyone, so you candecide how tightly or loosely to
make the match.
And truly the secret there ishow big is your audience?
You can't make it such a tinyaudience that the ads can't even
(18:14):
run.
So you've got to, like, findthe right percentage where your
audience is big enough that itwill actually go and perform
well, and that's different forevery account, so I can't tell
you the perfect percentage, butpercentage match on lookalikes.
That's a really powerful tool,one we use every chance we get.
It's just that not everycompany who comes to us has a
(18:34):
robust enough list for us to use.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And just to clarify, when we talk about a list, we're
literally talking about aspreadsheet which has a list of
customers or people who signedup to your email list and it
literally has their name, theiremail address, maybe their phone
number, maybe their actualphysical address.
And you take that list andyou're actually uploading it
into Meta so that Meta can thentrack those people or people
(18:58):
that look like them, like Gracejust mentioned.
And this concept of uploading alist occurs not just in the
world of Meta, but also on manyother advertising platforms,
including Google, microsoft andothers as well.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I think most of the paid social platforms have list
uploads now.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Which is really cool.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, I think for a while Nextdoor didn't and I was
like what year is it?
What do you mean?
You don't have uploads.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I didn't even know they had that.
That's great, that's good news.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I think it's still in beta, but I do think it's
available now.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Awesome, All right.
So a common question that I get, especially people who have
been like kind of know enough tobe dangerous but don't really
know what they're doing what'sthe difference between boosting
an organic post and creating acampaign in Ads?
Manager?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, I love this question personally because I
get it all the time and it'ssuch a good question.
So let's say you, danny, youwork for a school and you need
to promote something specific,like you're trying to get
prospective parents who mightwant to send their kids to your
school someday to attend an infosession, like a meet the
(20:10):
teacher night or something.
And let's say you have 20 bucksand a dream to promote this.
That's a boosted post, it's afinite budget for something
that's happening in a finiteamount of time and you're
probably only going to make onead about it, because you work
for a school and you're busy andyou have other things to do.
(20:31):
So you're going to make onereally nice static image for
this and you're going to put itout there and then you're going
to tell Meta only show this postto parents who live in this zip
code, and then it's going to godo its thing and that's enough.
Now let's say you worked for theschool and you were trying to
(20:54):
drive enrollment like the bottomof funnel thing that earns your
school money.
People are enrolling and soyou've got a good budget for
this.
Let's say I don't know $3,000 amonth or something.
You're a school.
We're going to keep it modest,but it's still a good budget
$3,000 a month and it's ongoing.
Maybe you turn it off in thesummer because no one's
(21:16):
enrolling in school in thesummer it's already too late.
But other than that, it'songoing and you're going to be
making lots of different kindsof ads.
You're going to have some videotestimonials of parents who are
really happy with their kids atyour school and you're going to
have static images.
Maybe you'll have like a guidelike this is how you can make
(21:37):
sure your kid ends up at thebest possible school, and it
just happens to be published byyour school, so maybe it's going
to suggest your school at theend.
So you're going to havedifferent types of ads going for
a long period of time with agood amount of budget.
Once you get into that territory, what you're going to need on
your end is the ability tocompare results.
(21:58):
You need to know how this ad isperforming compared to that ad,
how this audience is performingcompared to that audience.
You're going to need to be ableto make optimization decisions
about.
You know how to get the mostout of the money that you're
spending and you need to reportit to whoever you're reporting
to, to prove that you're doing agood job and that they should
(22:22):
be proud of you, and so you'regoing to want the ads manager
and you're going to want a fullcampaign to take care of all of
that.
It's really about how muchyou're able to view at a bird's
eye level, to make decisionsabout ongoing campaigns and for
reporting purposes so we'vealready spoke about some of the
(22:51):
essential steps to creating asuccessful paid social campaign.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
We spoke about setting the goals, our audience
targeting.
Now let's talk about the othertwo ingredients in that recipe,
which will be budget allocationand ad creative.
So when it comes to budgetallocation, which plainly means
you have a certain amount ofmoney that you want to spend on
your ad campaign, how do you setthat budget?
On meta, and what sort of isthe thought and strategy that
(23:13):
you should have?
Because sometimes there's dailybudgets, there's lifetime
budgets, there's setting thatbudget at, like, a campaign
level, setting it potentially atthe ad set level or like sort
of the audience level.
So if we could get into that,that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I think, first of all , you need to know yourself and
you need to know your businessor the business you're working
for.
If this is your number one job,as it is for us, our number one
job is to do this for ourclients.
We don't set campaign levelbudgets and we don't set
lifetime budgets, because at acampaign level, we're saying
(23:47):
here you go, a paid socialplatform, whichever one it may
be, you decide how to spend themoney.
You're smarter than me.
You figure it out, like youknow more than I do about what's
going on in this, and we'regoing to trust you to spend this
in the way that's going to getus the most results.
And that can be really great ifyou're not in the weeds all the
(24:07):
time getting really into thedata and making optimizations
for yourself, Because in thatcase, it's true, like Meta would
know more about what's going onin your campaigns than you do.
Or I said Meta, but anyplatform would know more than
you do, and so you could trustthem to make some decisions on
your behalf about how to spendyour money.
The same with lifetime versusdaily budgets.
(24:29):
You could say look, I have$10,000 to spend in a year and I
don't know what to do, exactlyhow to break it up.
I don't know which audiencesneed that money or like I'm just
letting it go and you could putit into the lifetime budget and
just it will not overspend.
It may spend a ton of money inJune and barely any in July, but
(24:52):
that's none of your business,that's not your problem anymore.
You're leaving that up to theplatform, and that can be again
really nice if you don't havethe time or the wherewithal, for
whatever reason, to go in andmanage these things on a daily
basis.
The wherewithal, for whateverreason to go in and manage these
things on a daily basis.
What we do at our agency is goin and manage these things on a
(25:18):
daily basis.
So we basically maybe once ortwice ever have we used lifetime
budget and that was for like avery short term, like two week
long campaign.
It was very unusual for us typeof campaign.
Normally we're doing long-termthings that don't have a set end
date, and so you can't have alifetime budget If you want to
have control over the audienceswho are getting your money and
maybe the level of funnel too.
So maybe we're talking peoplewho've never heard of your
(25:40):
business before versus peoplewho are repeat customers, right,
that's the funnel, and so ifyou want to decide how much
money goes to each level of thatfunnel, you can't just hand it
over to the platform and letthem do what they want.
And so that's where you'll doad set level and where you'll do
daily budget.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So the final ingredient is the ad creative,
and I think, if anything, it'sthe most important ingredient
these days.
So actually tell us, grace, howimportant is creative, and when
we say creative we mean theimages, the videos, the actual
copy in paid social campaignsAlso.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I mean, I think you know, when you were interviewing
me to hire me, like four yearsago now, the thing I said in my
interview was hey, you know whatI'm going to bring to this
department Creative strategy,because it's very important,
it's like the most importantthing, and that was years ago.
So, if you ask me, creative isthe most important thing.
But I'll also back this up withsomeone else's opinion and that
(26:47):
would be Meta itself.
Back this up with someoneelse's opinion and that would be
Meta itself.
If you take the way that Metais structuring its campaign
development scheme now, if youwill, it's heavily emphasizing
ads and de-emphasizing youraudience targeting and your ad
copy.
Sometimes it won't even showyour ad copy and you might tell
(27:10):
it please only show my ads topeople who love flowers in
Pennsylvania.
But it might decide it's goingto show it to whoever it wants
in Pennsylvania or maybe theywent to Pennsylvania recently.
It's going to decide for itselfwho it shows your ad to.
There's a lot less control thanthere used to be on those
factors.
(27:30):
The thing that we still havecontrol over for now and I say
for now, because they areintroducing a lot of AI features
that are getting harder andharder to turn off.
For now, we still have controlover how the ads look, and how
the ads look determines if yourpotential customer stops what
(27:51):
they're doing in the middle oftheir day, scrolling through
recipes or cute pictures oftheir nieces and nephews, that
they stop what they're doing andpay attention to you, Because
that's the whole ballgame whenit comes to paid social ads.
If you can get them to stop,you've got their attention.
That's your opportunity tobring them in.
If you can't even get them tostop, it's over.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And I think that you know, often when people think
about ads, they're thinking Imean, in some ways, when they
think about paid social orsocial media ads, there's a lot
of like tech and theoptimization here and there, but
what you're basically saying is, yeah, there is optimization
and things that we can do tomake things better, but at the
end of the day, the main driverand the main point that you have
(28:34):
control of is going to be thatcreative, and that's why it's so
important.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yes, and to be fair here, it's not that the other
things don't still make adifference.
We took over a campaignrecently for a new client who
was already running ads.
They just weren't happy withthe results that they were
getting, and the only thing wechanged in the first period of
(28:58):
time when we started workingwith them, while we were getting
all the other stuff ready to gothe only thing we changed was
their audience targeting,because we didn't feel that
their old agency was doing agood job with the audience
targeting.
So same creative, sameeverything, and we already saw a
50% reduction in the cost perresult for that campaign.
So it was an immediate likesnap, and it started performing
(29:20):
better.
So I don't mean to imply thataudiences make no difference.
They do, they obviously do.
But I don't think that it'spossible to say anymore,
particularly as platforms removeyour ability to dictate where
your ads are showing up I don'tthink it's possible to say that
that's the main thing anymore.
I would say creative is themain thing now.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, so we have four ingredients, but that creative
is going to be the mostimportant or the main ingredient
.
Yeah, what metrics shouldbeginners focus on when they're
running their first campaigns?
Is it clicks?
Is it your cost per result?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
If you're running your first campaign, you should
take a moment to really reflecton what you're trying to get
people to do and why, and makesure you have that super figured
out heading into it.
I know that that seems prettyobvious, but a lot of people
forget to do that for somereason.
I think a lot of times thefirst work that I see from
(30:15):
people is their brand.
It's like come to this brewery,we're awesome and we're here,
but they're not trying to getpeople to show up at a specific
time or to try a specificproduct, and those are the
things that are actuallytrackable and measurable with
your results.
So I would say pay attentionwhen you're designing your
(30:37):
campaigns.
Make sure that you're choosingsome type of conversion that you
can prove it came from yousomehow.
If you're that brewery, maybeyou offer people a coupon for
free breadsticks Breadsticksdon't.
You don't get breadsticks at abrewery.
What do you get?
Pretzels free soft pretzels atthe brewery, something so that
(31:00):
they'll show up, doesn't costyou a lot of money, but they
will bring you that coupon thatthey only could have gotten from
your campaign.
Now you can prove that theycame from your campaign and once
you have that goal in mind.
That's what you need to beoptimizing your campaign for.
So set it up so that, whateveralgorithm you're working with,
let's say, the meta algorithmInstagram knows that that's what
(31:22):
you want.
They know, they understand.
You want people downloading thiscoupon, and they're going to go
after the people who are goingto download that coupon Not just
like any old person who mightlook at your ad and like it, but
people who specifically want todownload that right.
Who might look at your ad andlike it, but people who
specifically want to downloadthat right and that's going to
give you more measurable resultsover time.
(31:43):
And then, after that, it's justpaying attention to your costs.
You know better than any guruout there what is the right cost
for a result for you If you'rea brewery and you're selling
beer.
For you, If you're a brewery andyou're selling beer, you
probably can't afford to bespending $100 per coupon
download, because not everyonewho downloads is going to show
up.
Not everyone who shows up isgoing to become a lifetime
(32:06):
customer, and so you have to dothe math for yourself and figure
out what the right costs are.
And then, once you know whatyour costs are, that's when you
can begin to figure out.
Is this campaign working?
Do I need better ads, differentads, different audiences?
Is everything okay or is thisgreat or is this terrible?
(32:27):
That's where you can begin tofigure it out.
But you've got to know thosecore things of what am I doing
and how much am I willing tospend to do it.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
And it's interesting because, Grace, like the way you
describe it, it sounds likeit's obvious that you need to
set up an actual like end goal,end result.
But we've seen agencies andother people who, whether it's
with Facebook, Google, otherplatforms where they'll
literally just look at theclicks, look at the traffic and
not even know what's happeningin the end.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
So that's why it's important all the time.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So really it's really really important, just for
especially, people are firststarting out to realize that's
not.
Those are important like littleindicators, but in the end of
the day, if you don't know yourfinal goal, how much that's
costing you to actually getpeople to do it, then you're
really there's.
There's really no point of evenadvertising.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Absolutely.
Now, okay, there are some bigbrands out there.
If you're a Coca-Cola or aMcDonald's, right, that's
different.
You're playing a different game.
You're playing with bazillionsof dollars.
You can do whatever you want,it's fine.
But I'm assuming most marketersout there don't get the luxury
of working for Disney,unfortunately.
(33:38):
So we're out here actuallyhaving to work with budgets and
prove that we are gettingresults.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, that's fair, because if your marching orders
is, I just want you know for$5,000, I want the most people
to see this.
So then, if your goal is forpeople to see it, that's a
separate thing.
But, like you said, mostbusinesses that we're working
with, most businesses that havea limited amount of money, they
want to be able to see thatmeasurable return on investment
and it's not enough just to makea physical billboard that
(34:08):
people drive by in their carinto a digital billboard on
Instagram.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Exactly.
I think it feels good when yousee website traffic, but I think
a lot of times when our clientscome to us and say what we want
is website traffic, we try tocounsel them away from that and
we try to say, okay, but what'sgoing to actually earn you money
?
Because if you're a newsorganization and you monetize
your clicks, okay, maybe you dowant a lot of traffic, Maybe
that does improve your adrevenue and that is how you pay
(34:34):
your bills.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
But most of the time the way you pay your bills is
not through traffic.
Most of the time it's throughsomething else, and so think
this was before you joinedOptage.
Even then it wasn't just abouttraffic, but it was about, let's
(34:58):
see, what are the articles thatpeople read more of and what
are the topics and categoriesthat work better.
So even then, it wasn't abouttraffic.
We still looked at what theydid on the website and, based
off of that, optimized.
So just a side note.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, absolutely, 100%, 100%.
So, yes, and sometimes we havetrouble.
We have trouble with boards ofdirectors not understanding and
wanting traffic and we're notgiving them enough traffic and
where's their traffic?
Agreed, but we kind of stick toour guns, right.
We're like look, we're going togive you quality results here.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
So, Grace, what should you do if your campaign
isn't performing well?
Panic.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
No, I'm kidding, no, so.
So I always start personally atthe ad level.
So if I've got a campaign liveand I'm looking at my numbers
and the numbers just aren'tworking out, I I mean, first of
all, I look at my campaignsevery day or every other day,
because it's my job, but yourjob, this may only be part of
(36:00):
your job.
So you need a cadence thatworks for you, right?
But as long as it's regular andyou're checking in, you're good
to go.
So if I see something's notworking out, I'll start at the
ad level and I'll look at theresults for each individual ad
that's live and I'll say okay,so which one of these?
Are any of these working?
(36:20):
Maybe some of them are and someof them just aren't, and that's
causing the overall numbers tolook bad.
But on an ad by ad level, it'sjust one or two that aren't
performing.
If they aren't performing, turnthem off, Get some new ones.
If it's all the ads, okay,yikes.
Now what do we do?
So I go down to another metric,a secondary KPI is what we
(36:44):
would call that.
So instead of purchases, maybeit's clicks Like did they click
through to the website?
They just haven't purchased yet, right?
And so then I'll be able to seeoh, the click-through rates are
great, like people are lovingthese ads, they're just not
buying anything.
Once they get to the website,that indicates that maybe
there's an issue with thewebsite.
(37:05):
Maybe I'm sending them to thewrong place and it's not obvious
enough to them how to make apurchase.
Maybe what they really need ismore information, because it's a
big purchase, like a car or adiamond, right.
So, thinking about where you'resending them and if it makes
sense, and then if theclick-through rates are low,
then maybe what I'm looking atis creative that's not
(37:25):
resonating, or messaging that'snot resonating, and I need to
try something.
Just try something else,because they're not clicking,
it's not hitting with them.
That's the worst.
That's the hardest thing for meto say is just try something
else, because they're notclicking, it's not hitting with
them.
That's the worst.
That's the hardest thing for meto say is just try something
else, because you don't knowwhat.
That's where you have to goback to your research and the
work that you've done buildingup your campaign.
(37:46):
But yeah, you've got to go backto the drawing board and try
something totally different andsee how that goes, but that's
why you want to be checking inon your campaigns pretty
regularly, so you can catch itearly, before it becomes an
emergency.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
So it happens to be that paid social is one of the
it is the most award-winningpart of Optage.
We've won like the paid socialcategory, like five years in a
row at a local awards that weenter every single year.
So I know we have a lot ofsuccess when it comes to paid
social.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Is there any specific example or case study that you
like or that you're proud of,that worked really well and just
want to share a little bitabout it?
For us, the campaigns that werun that do the best at the
awards are ones where somebodyhas a big ticket item that
they're selling and so theamount of money they're spending
on an ad relative to how muchmoney they earn when we get a
sale, that difference is huge.
Their return on investment ishuge and that looks really great
(38:41):
for awards.
And so you know, those are thecampaigns that like we get the
trophies for.
And it's not that I'm not proudof that, but I think the like
the campaigns I love the mostare the ones where we're helping
nonprofits or like smallerbusinesses with very minimal
(39:02):
campaign cash, like money to goto their campaigns have big
success.
To me, that's like the more funand engaging thing, because
you've got to be a littlecreative, right, you don't have
a big budget to work with, youknow.
Then you get into a meetingwith them and they're like this
was the best year ever andthat's so like, that's so
rewarding.
That's my answer personally.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I love that.
So that confirms that even ifsomeone has a low budget, or
what they're selling may not,you know, may not have be the
highest ticket item out there wecan still generate results for
them on paid social.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Exactly, and that may never be the one that gets the
trophy, because, again, thetrophy loves the big, flashy
numbers, right but it's the onethat it's a good win when you
get that news that, like theyhad their most signups ever or
their most donations orsomething like that, that's
really good.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Grace, are there any common mistakes that you see
beginners make when they'regetting into paid social?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I think I kind of covered this one a little bit
already with just making sureyou know exactly what your
campaign is trying to do and getit done.
But I will say we talked at thebeginning about how Meta is a
good all-around platform becauseeven if every person in the
world isn't on it, every type ofperson is, every persona is
there.
But you can have really goodsuccess on smaller platforms if,
(40:25):
for example, you really knowyour audience is on that
platform.
I think I mentioned Nextdoor acouple of times now, but if you
know you're looking forhomeowners, that's such a great
way to get in front of them.
Reddit if you know yourcustomers are researching and
doing a lot of thinking beforethey make their move, that can
(40:45):
be a great place to get in frontof them and it's less expensive
because it's less competitiveto show ads there.
I would say, give a littlethought to your platform and to
your customer and make sureyou've got the right platform
customer match for what you'retrying to do.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
So you see, people, a lot of the success lies in all
the things that are actuallyoutside of the platform, even
before you jump in, and I thinkthere's a lot of truth to that.
So, grace, if someone is juststarting out with paid social,
you know they're new to digitalmarketing.
What's the first thing that youfeel like they should do?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I got some great information from you.
But there are other ways.
There are online courses andthere are even free like there's
(41:40):
so many good free educationalvideos on YouTube.
It's incredible what's outthere.
So just finding a way to learnas much as you can about the
world of digital marketing andthen at a certain point you just
have to do it.
You just have to like it's veryscary the first time someone
(42:01):
puts you in charge of spendingtheir money, but you just have
to do it Like rip the bandaidoff, jump in, get into it and
that's like really the best wayto figure it out.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Love it.
I'm just going to add one morething which I know you agree
with me on, which is about Canva.
You know Canva is a free toolwhen it comes to designing and
really like getting on there,just getting used to creating
designs and you know ads.
I think that is a huge toolthat can be your tool belt.
A couple of years ago, you hadto know Photoshop, which is a
(42:32):
complicated tool, but you know agraphic tool like Canva, which
has a free version and you cando so much with it.
Just learning it and having theknowledge of that that can
really take you far,specifically when it comes to
paid social.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Oh yes, knowing Canva made a really big difference
when I first came to Optitch,because I already had experience
from a previous job that I had,and so when I got here the
first day, I was able to startdesigning ads just right off the
bat.
I didn't need any time to trainup with a tool, and so if
you're still looking for thatfirst job in marketing, if you
(43:07):
can start putting togetherdesigns, learning how to use the
tool, and then you even havesomething you could show if you
wanted to in an interview, right, you could say like I didn't
work for these companies, but Icould like these are the ads I
would design for them if I did.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, love it.
Well Grace, this has been suchan awesome chat.
Although it's supposed to bebeginners, I think we hit
beginners but also someintermediary.
We went deep, which I love, likethat's so cool and that's
what's so fun about digitalmarketing you can always go deep
.
There's always so much to talkabout.
So thanks for being a guest onthe Digital Marketing Mentor and
(43:41):
thank you, listeners, fortuning into the Digital
Marketing Mentor.
We'll speak with you next time.
Thank you for listening to theDigital Marketing Mentor podcast
.
Be sure to check us out onlineat thedmmentorcom and at
thedmmentor on Instagram, anddon't forget to subscribe on
Apple Podcasts, spotify orwherever you listen to your
podcasts for more marketingmentor magic.
(44:04):
See you next time.
Welcome to the Digital Marketing Mentor.
I'm your host, danny Gavin.
Together with industry leadersand marketing experts, we'll
explore the meeting point ofmentorship and marketing.
We'll discover how theseconnections have affected
careers, marketing strategiesand lives.
Now get ready to get human.
Hello, I'm Danny Gavin, founderof Optige, a marketing
(00:36):
professor, the host of theDigital Marketing Mentor.
Get ready to get human to theactual creative and especially
creative.
She combines strategic thinkingwith her creative flair to
create attention-grabbing,high-performing ads across all
social media platforms.
Grace has a master's inmarketing, plus certifications
in digital marketing, digitalmarketing analytics and brand
management.
And what's even more specialand really cool is, grace is one
(00:58):
of the people who helped designthe paid social media courses
both at the University ofHouston and at Odeo.
So Grace is here with us todayto discuss paid social
advertising.
Grace, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm doing great.
How are you doing today, Danny?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I'm doing really well .
Good, all right, so let's jumpright in.
I know this is starting fromthe beginning, but what is paid
social?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Paid social is all the little ads that come across
your screen as you're scrollingall the different paid social
platforms that exist out thereyour tiktoks, your instagrams,
facebooks, all of it and itincludes whatsapp.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Actually, a lot of people don't realize that
interesting and so obviouslythese social media platforms
have advertisements and I assumethat's the way a lot of them
make money, correct?
So how does it differ fromorganic social media marketing
when we say paid social mediaversus organic social?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
media oh, I love this one, okay.
So organic social media is allthe posts that brands make that
are curated and beautiful, ontheir Instagram feeds or on
their Facebook pages, and italso involves a really heavy
amount of interacting withcustomers.
So, basically, customer service, where if somebody has a
(02:11):
problem with your product oryour service, the first thing
they're going to do is messageyou on Instagram or Twitter or
something.
And so the organic socialpeople have this really unique
balance of 50%.
People have this really uniquebalance of 50% marketing and 50%
customer service.
They are the unsung heroes ofthe digital marketing world 100%
(02:33):
.
And then, on the paid side, it'sa lot more about managing
overarching campaigns that aredriving toward a very specific
result.
So, for example, really tryingto push one particular sale or
one particular product that'sdebuting, and all of the money
and the focus and the resourcesare going to marshal behind that
(02:57):
, and it really doesn't have todo with speaking on behalf of
the brand to customers and itreally doesn't have anything to
do with engagement orintroducing yourself to new
people.
It's really more about thoselike, at least at Optage, the
way we do it.
It's really a lot more aboutdriving those hard conversions
that get to the bottom line.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Awesome.
And one thing I would add alsois in organic social media,
often the reason you see certainposts are going to be based off
of the algorithm and,potentially, tags that people
are using and engagement, whilewith paid social, it's more
about pay to play right.
So when you're actually payingfor your ad to be seen, so then
people will be seeing it.
It's not necessarily aboutmaking sure you hit the
(03:39):
algorithm or not.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
There's a lot more trying toplay the algorithm in organic
than there used to be.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, we know about those algorithms, especially in
Google.
Yeah, so why do you thinknowadays paid social is such an
important part of a digitalmarketing strategy and,
technically, just a marketingstrategy in general?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
First of all, there's only so far that your organic
social can take you.
These days, in the old days,like a long time ago, maybe 10,
15 years ago, you used to postand everybody who was following
you would probably see your postand maybe the people who were
following them might see if theyengaged with it and it could
spread really naturally, reallywell on, say, a Facebook or an
(04:26):
Instagram.
But these days, meta reallywants you to pay for that,
everybody wants you to pay forthat reach, and so if you post
on organic social, it might notreach anybody, it might not even
reach the people who arefollowing you.
And so just to reach the peoplewho are already your customers,
(04:48):
let alone people who aren'tyour customers yet, you're going
to need to pay up just a littlebit, just a little, to get out
there.
And then, as it pertains toGoogle, or like an organic or
paid Google strategy, I wouldsay that Google is great for
people who already know theyhave a problem and maybe they
(05:13):
even already know about yoursolution to their problem.
But if they aren't aware thatthey have the problem yet which
is kind of a funny idea butimagine like they may not
realize that their windows areso thin that they let all the
cold in and that there arebetter windows out there.
Like they just may not know theoptions out there.
(05:35):
They're not going to know to goout searching for a solution to
that problem, and so sometimesit's nice to be able to slide in
wherever they're spending theirtime and attention, whether
it's Instagram or TikTok, andjust say hey, did you know that
there are better windows outthere and your electricity bills
could be lower and you could bemore comfortable?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
So you mentioned Meta , which these days Meta means
Facebook and Instagram.
Why, when approaching paidsocial, would we focus primarily
, or at least in the beginning,on meta?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
We always think of meta as the first stop shop for
paid social at Optage, andthat's because it may not have
everybody in the world onFacebook or Instagram, but every
type of customer is going to beon Facebook or Instagram.
Broadly speaking, whether you'retrying to reach, like moms or
(06:33):
small business owners, or maybeyou're trying to reach you know
people with master's degrees whoare looking for you know
something for their job, like abusiness to business application
that they need to make theirjobs better.
You're going to find everybodyon one of those two platforms,
or every type of persona on oneof those two platforms, and so
(06:57):
it's a great base to start with,and then from there you can
branch out to other platformswhere things kind of niche out a
little bit more.
Maybe on Nextdoor you'relooking for homeowners, and
maybe on LinkedIn you're lookingfor somebody with a certain job
title, but everybody also hasan Instagram account or Facebook
account.
You're going to find them theretoo.
So when you're working with alimited budget, it really helps
(07:19):
to have one place where you canstart.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
And often, especially at Optage, we work.
We work with a lot of companiesthat you know these aren't the
companies that are spending abillion dollars in digital
marketing here but I feel veryspecific budgets and therefore
it makes sense to start therefirst.
Exactly, a little bit earlier,you mentioned that the way we
approach paid social is usuallylike we have a goal in mind, a
very specific point.
So what are some of the goalsthat businesses try to achieve
(07:45):
with paid social?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
You can do anything with paid social.
That's one of the beautifulparts about it.
But our most typical campaignswill be purchases.
So if you're selling somethingon a website, we can promote it
on paid social and directlyattribute that sale from our
campaign straight to the website.
(08:06):
The two talk to each other.
That's really important forpaid social Leads.
So maybe you work for a businessor you have a client who they
sell something like mortgages orsomething where nobody buys a
mortgage online necessarily.
There's paperwork and in-personthings that have to happen.
So it's a lot harder toattribute that success of one ad
(08:31):
or another to whether or notsomebody signed up for a
mortgage.
But if you say you offer them aguide to finding the best
mortgage rate for yourcircumstance like the best
mortgage rate for yourcircumstance and they are maybe
your customers willing to offeran email address or a phone
number and their name inexchange for that information,
(08:53):
then three or four months downthe line when they sign up for a
mortgage with your client orwith your company, you can see
that you got their name and yougot their email address and
that's the name and emailaddress of the person who just
applied for a mortgage with yourcompany, so you're able to show
whoever you're working for that.
You did a good Meta, so couldyou share with us, like, what
are those?
Speaker 1 (09:25):
types and, if there, if you have any thoughts on
specific types working betterfor specific goals.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
On Meta.
There are creative types suchas, like a static image, a video
GIFs, even carousels, where youhave to.
It's a bunch of static imagesand you click through them to
get to the end.
Those are the main creativetypes.
And then there are the calls toaction.
You can associate with them, sothings like you could have
(09:54):
somebody call, like, if yourcompany just wants phone calls
they're kind of old fashionedthat way then you could have the
call to action be called now.
Or you could even get messageson Instagram.
You can have Instagram messagesif that's how you wanted to go
through your leads.
There's lead gen forms andsending people to the website.
(10:15):
So there are lots of differentways you can mix and match an ad
type, especially on meta.
I think the question you'regetting at Dani for part two is
like is it true that only videoswork?
Now, because that's the rumor.
That's not what we found.
We found that static imageswork really well, actually like
(10:38):
surprisingly well.
But the truth is you just haveto test and see.
You're not going to know aheadof time.
Every account is different andI wish we could know ahead of
time that a certain ad type wasgoing to be the winning one, but
it's always a surprise and,honestly, it's never the one
you're expecting.
You'll go into it so confident,like this is the best video
(10:58):
I've ever made in my life, andthen the static image that you
worked on for five minutes justtakes off like a rocket ship.
Great, great, thank you.
You just never know.
You have to try, you have totest.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Any thoughts on one specific static ad versus a
carousel of, let's say, four tofive static ads?
Have you ever tested that out?
Speaker 2 (11:19):
We have tested that out and, at least for our
accounts, what we found is thatthe difference in performance
wasn't enough.
It didn't make up enough of thedifference in how much more
work a carousel is.
So, because a carousel might befour or five static images,
it's four or five times the workin developing those images but
(11:41):
also building the ads.
So it takes four or five timeslonger to make that ad, but
they're not four or five timesbetter in terms of the results
we get and we find that we'retypically, for our accounts,
better off doing four or fivestatic ads.
However, you can do really funthings with carousels, Like you
can tell stories.
(12:02):
You can do little.
Like you know, connect the dots, maps, like as if a person's
walking through.
I mean, there's, there are funthings you can do with carousels
.
It's the time investment for us, where it's just, it doesn't
pay off for us.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
So along the same vein and connected to what you
said before about video, so itsounds like it's kind of a
balance between producing like areally good video and like
you're not even sure if that'sgoing to work really well.
So to me, in my mind, it's likeit's like a maybe when you are
creating a video created formore than just Facebook, so
therefore it's not just for that, or number two, maybe you do
(12:39):
like a more basic version of thevideo and once you know it
works, then maybe spend theextra money to make it excellent
.
I don't know if you have anyopinion on that.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, it's the hardest part for me of my job
personally, because I am such adetails-oriented perfectionist.
I hate producing ads that arenot perfect, but we're an agency
and we need to make sure we'reusing our time efficiently, and
so sometimes you have to go withsomething that's good enough
(13:11):
and not the perfect thing.
You had in your mind, yourvision, your dream, and it's oh
it's.
It's heartbreaking too, becauseevery once in a while we'll get
the time to develop an ad thatwe love.
We did once for brian gavindiamonds actually, am I allowed
to say the company name, sinceit's your, your dad's company?
totally okay, great, uh, we didit once for brian gavin diamonds
(13:34):
.
We developed like this adorablemario themed ad where it was
like an, an off-brand, likewe're not gonna get sued version
of mario, and it's thisold-timey nintendo aesthetic
where he's like jumping andrunning and he's trying to get
to the perfect diamondengagement ring, like that's the
quest that he's on, and we wereso excited and we launched it
(13:56):
and I don't I don't thinkanybody about anything.
I don't even know if peoplewatched it.
I can't remember the watch timeon it, but it was so sad, we
were devastated.
And it just goes to show thateven if you have the time to
spend on the perfect ad, yourtime might be better spent
trying lots of differentconcepts than really doubling
down on your favorite, becauseyou just never know.
(14:18):
There's no accounting for taste, as my mom would say.
You never know what people aregoing to like and respond to and
it's usually not the thingyou're expecting.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
It's such an important insight.
Thank you for sharing.
So how does Meta's ad targetingwork?
So obviously you're creatingthese ads and you now want to
put them onto Meta, which wouldbe to show up on Facebook and
Instagram.
How do I target people so thatthey see my ads?
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Hopefully you've done a little bit of introspection
ahead of time and you know whoyou're trying to reach.
I think that's the mostimportant thing.
And then the next thing isyou'll go into the ads manager
and you'll open up their toolwhat's it called Audience
research tool?
Yeah, and is this easier with avisual?
Speaker 1 (15:06):
we could always add in a visual afterwards.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Okay.
Okay, so you'll go into the adsmanager and you'll begin the
process of building yourcampaign, and step two is where
you'll define your audience andin there you'll be able to
search for differentdemographics, like parents or
people who are single, orcertain age groups, things like
(15:29):
that.
You'll also be able to searchfor interests, so people who are
interested in dogs, or peoplewho really like baked goods,
things that could apply to whatyou're trying to promote and
you'll also be able to chooseregions.
So let's say, you are workingfor a business that is really
(15:50):
local and they really onlyservice a 10 mile radius around
their location.
You'll be able to go in andchoose that location so that
you're making sure that your adsaren't going out to everyone
everywhere all at once, rightwhere you want them.
That's physically how you goabout finding the audience you
want them.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
That's physically how you go about finding the
audience.
So there are, like I would say,imagine like you've got a bunch
of dials right or a bunch ofbuttons that you can turn in
order to find that exactaudience that you're looking for
.
But I think the key is, likeyou said before, that prep of
like okay, first understand whoyou're trying to target and then
, once you go into the meta adsmanager, you can try to say okay
, are there things there that Ican turn on right or turn to
(16:31):
where I can reach that audiencein the best way possible?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
So you've mentioned Facebook ads manager outside of
you know, targeting and creatingthe ad.
Anything else that you want toadd to that?
About what else can we do withthe Facebook ads manager to?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
add to that about what else can we do with the
Facebook Ads Manager On thebuilding and launching side?
I would say you can also addlists of people.
So if you've got a pretty goodsize list so I think a thousand
is like the minimum number ofpeople you'd want on this list,
so a robust list you can uploadit and then Meta will do its
(17:08):
best to try to match the peopleon your list to profiles on
Facebook or Instagram.
And that's why they need somany names, because the match
rate's not excellent.
So there are going to be somethat they can't figure out who's
who and they can't match them.
But for the ones that they can,that can be a really powerful
way to retarget people who arealready your customers.
(17:28):
But it that can be a reallypowerful way to retarget people
who are already your customers.
But it could also be a reallygood way to find lookalikes of
people who are your customers.
So a lookalike is somebody whobehaves similarly online to your
customer and you can choose howsimilarly.
So a 1% is like a really tightmatch they're like basically
(17:51):
your person's twin and then a10% match is like everybody in
the world.
I don't know why you're evenmaking this look alike.
It's everyone, so you candecide how tightly or loosely to
make the match.
And truly the secret there ishow big is your audience?
You can't make it such a tinyaudience that the ads can't even
(18:14):
run.
So you've got to, like, findthe right percentage where your
audience is big enough that itwill actually go and perform
well, and that's different forevery account, so I can't tell
you the perfect percentage, butpercentage match on lookalikes.
That's a really powerful tool,one we use every chance we get.
It's just that not everycompany who comes to us has a
(18:34):
robust enough list for us to use.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
And just to clarify, when we talk about a list, we're
literally talking about aspreadsheet which has a list of
customers or people who signedup to your email list and it
literally has their name, theiremail address, maybe their phone
number, maybe their actualphysical address.
And you take that list andyou're actually uploading it
into Meta so that Meta can thentrack those people or people
(18:58):
that look like them, like Gracejust mentioned.
And this concept of uploading alist occurs not just in the
world of Meta, but also on manyother advertising platforms,
including Google, microsoft andothers as well.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
I think most of the paid social platforms have list
uploads now.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Which is really cool.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, I think for a while Nextdoor didn't and I was
like what year is it?
What do you mean?
You don't have uploads.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I didn't even know they had that.
That's great, that's good news.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I think it's still in beta, but I do think it's
available now.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Awesome, All right.
So a common question that I get, especially people who have
been like kind of know enough tobe dangerous but don't really
know what they're doing what'sthe difference between boosting
an organic post and creating acampaign in Ads?
Manager?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, I love this question personally because I
get it all the time and it'ssuch a good question.
So let's say you, danny, youwork for a school and you need
to promote something specific,like you're trying to get
prospective parents who mightwant to send their kids to your
school someday to attend an infosession, like a meet the
(20:10):
teacher night or something.
And let's say you have 20 bucksand a dream to promote this.
That's a boosted post, it's afinite budget for something
that's happening in a finiteamount of time and you're
probably only going to make onead about it, because you work
for a school and you're busy andyou have other things to do.
(20:31):
So you're going to make onereally nice static image for
this and you're going to put itout there and then you're going
to tell Meta only show this postto parents who live in this zip
code, and then it's going to godo its thing and that's enough.
Now let's say you worked for theschool and you were trying to
(20:54):
drive enrollment like the bottomof funnel thing that earns your
school money.
People are enrolling and soyou've got a good budget for
this.
Let's say I don't know $3,000 amonth or something.
You're a school.
We're going to keep it modest,but it's still a good budget
$3,000 a month and it's ongoing.
Maybe you turn it off in thesummer because no one's
(21:16):
enrolling in school in thesummer it's already too late.
But other than that, it'songoing and you're going to be
making lots of different kindsof ads.
You're going to have some videotestimonials of parents who are
really happy with their kids atyour school and you're going to
have static images.
Maybe you'll have like a guidelike this is how you can make
(21:37):
sure your kid ends up at thebest possible school, and it
just happens to be published byyour school, so maybe it's going
to suggest your school at theend.
So you're going to havedifferent types of ads going for
a long period of time with agood amount of budget.
Once you get into that territory, what you're going to need on
your end is the ability tocompare results.
(21:58):
You need to know how this ad isperforming compared to that ad,
how this audience is performingcompared to that audience.
You're going to need to be ableto make optimization decisions
about.
You know how to get the mostout of the money that you're
spending and you need to reportit to whoever you're reporting
to, to prove that you're doing agood job and that they should
(22:22):
be proud of you, and so you'regoing to want the ads manager
and you're going to want a fullcampaign to take care of all of
that.
It's really about how muchyou're able to view at a bird's
eye level, to make decisionsabout ongoing campaigns and for
reporting purposes so we'vealready spoke about some of the
(22:51):
essential steps to creating asuccessful paid social campaign.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
We spoke about setting the goals, our audience
targeting.
Now let's talk about the othertwo ingredients in that recipe,
which will be budget allocationand ad creative.
So when it comes to budgetallocation, which plainly means
you have a certain amount ofmoney that you want to spend on
your ad campaign, how do you setthat budget?
On meta, and what sort of isthe thought and strategy that
(23:13):
you should have?
Because sometimes there's dailybudgets, there's lifetime
budgets, there's setting thatbudget at, like, a campaign
level, setting it potentially atthe ad set level or like sort
of the audience level.
So if we could get into that,that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I think, first of all , you need to know yourself and
you need to know your businessor the business you're working
for.
If this is your number one job,as it is for us, our number one
job is to do this for ourclients.
We don't set campaign levelbudgets and we don't set
lifetime budgets, because at acampaign level, we're saying
(23:47):
here you go, a paid socialplatform, whichever one it may
be, you decide how to spend themoney.
You're smarter than me.
You figure it out, like youknow more than I do about what's
going on in this, and we'regoing to trust you to spend this
in the way that's going to getus the most results.
And that can be really great ifyou're not in the weeds all the
(24:07):
time getting really into thedata and making optimizations
for yourself, Because in thatcase, it's true, like Meta would
know more about what's going onin your campaigns than you do.
Or I said Meta, but anyplatform would know more than
you do, and so you could trustthem to make some decisions on
your behalf about how to spendyour money.
The same with lifetime versusdaily budgets.
(24:29):
You could say look, I have$10,000 to spend in a year and I
don't know what to do, exactlyhow to break it up.
I don't know which audiencesneed that money or like I'm just
letting it go and you could putit into the lifetime budget and
just it will not overspend.
It may spend a ton of money inJune and barely any in July, but
(24:52):
that's none of your business,that's not your problem anymore.
You're leaving that up to theplatform, and that can be again
really nice if you don't havethe time or the wherewithal, for
whatever reason, to go in andmanage these things on a daily
basis.
The wherewithal, for whateverreason to go in and manage these
things on a daily basis.
What we do at our agency is goin and manage these things on a
(25:18):
daily basis.
So we basically maybe once ortwice ever have we used lifetime
budget and that was for like avery short term, like two week
long campaign.
It was very unusual for us typeof campaign.
Normally we're doing long-termthings that don't have a set end
date, and so you can't have alifetime budget If you want to
have control over the audienceswho are getting your money and
maybe the level of funnel too.
So maybe we're talking peoplewho've never heard of your
(25:40):
business before versus peoplewho are repeat customers, right,
that's the funnel, and so ifyou want to decide how much
money goes to each level of thatfunnel, you can't just hand it
over to the platform and letthem do what they want.
And so that's where you'll doad set level and where you'll do
daily budget.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
So the final ingredient is the ad creative,
and I think, if anything, it'sthe most important ingredient
these days.
So actually tell us, grace, howimportant is creative, and when
we say creative we mean theimages, the videos, the actual
copy in paid social campaignsAlso.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I mean, I think you know, when you were interviewing
me to hire me, like four yearsago now, the thing I said in my
interview was hey, you know whatI'm going to bring to this
department Creative strategy,because it's very important,
it's like the most importantthing, and that was years ago.
So, if you ask me, creative isthe most important thing.
But I'll also back this up withsomeone else's opinion and that
(26:47):
would be Meta itself.
Back this up with someoneelse's opinion and that would be
Meta itself.
If you take the way that Metais structuring its campaign
development scheme now, if youwill, it's heavily emphasizing
ads and de-emphasizing youraudience targeting and your ad
copy.
Sometimes it won't even showyour ad copy and you might tell
(27:10):
it please only show my ads topeople who love flowers in
Pennsylvania.
But it might decide it's goingto show it to whoever it wants
in Pennsylvania or maybe theywent to Pennsylvania recently.
It's going to decide for itselfwho it shows your ad to.
There's a lot less control thanthere used to be on those
factors.
(27:30):
The thing that we still havecontrol over for now and I say
for now, because they areintroducing a lot of AI features
that are getting harder andharder to turn off.
For now, we still have controlover how the ads look, and how
the ads look determines if yourpotential customer stops what
(27:51):
they're doing in the middle oftheir day, scrolling through
recipes or cute pictures oftheir nieces and nephews, that
they stop what they're doing andpay attention to you, Because
that's the whole ballgame whenit comes to paid social ads.
If you can get them to stop,you've got their attention.
That's your opportunity tobring them in.
If you can't even get them tostop, it's over.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
And I think that you know, often when people think
about ads, they're thinking Imean, in some ways, when they
think about paid social orsocial media ads, there's a lot
of like tech and theoptimization here and there, but
what you're basically saying is, yeah, there is optimization
and things that we can do tomake things better, but at the
end of the day, the main driverand the main point that you have
(28:34):
control of is going to be thatcreative, and that's why it's so
important.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Yes, and to be fair here, it's not that the other
things don't still make adifference.
We took over a campaignrecently for a new client who
was already running ads.
They just weren't happy withthe results that they were
getting, and the only thing wechanged in the first period of
(28:58):
time when we started workingwith them, while we were getting
all the other stuff ready to gothe only thing we changed was
their audience targeting,because we didn't feel that
their old agency was doing agood job with the audience
targeting.
So same creative, sameeverything, and we already saw a
50% reduction in the cost perresult for that campaign.
So it was an immediate likesnap, and it started performing
(29:20):
better.
So I don't mean to imply thataudiences make no difference.
They do, they obviously do.
But I don't think that it'spossible to say anymore,
particularly as platforms removeyour ability to dictate where
your ads are showing up I don'tthink it's possible to say that
that's the main thing anymore.
I would say creative is themain thing now.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, so we have four ingredients, but that creative
is going to be the mostimportant or the main ingredient
.
Yeah, what metrics shouldbeginners focus on when they're
running their first campaigns?
Is it clicks?
Is it your cost per result?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
If you're running your first campaign, you should
take a moment to really reflecton what you're trying to get
people to do and why, and makesure you have that super figured
out heading into it.
I know that that seems prettyobvious, but a lot of people
forget to do that for somereason.
I think a lot of times thefirst work that I see from
(30:15):
people is their brand.
It's like come to this brewery,we're awesome and we're here,
but they're not trying to getpeople to show up at a specific
time or to try a specificproduct, and those are the
things that are actuallytrackable and measurable with
your results.
So I would say pay attentionwhen you're designing your
(30:37):
campaigns.
Make sure that you're choosingsome type of conversion that you
can prove it came from yousomehow.
If you're that brewery, maybeyou offer people a coupon for
free breadsticks Breadsticksdon't.
You don't get breadsticks at abrewery.
What do you get?
Pretzels free soft pretzels atthe brewery, something so that
(31:00):
they'll show up, doesn't costyou a lot of money, but they
will bring you that coupon thatthey only could have gotten from
your campaign.
Now you can prove that theycame from your campaign and once
you have that goal in mind.
That's what you need to beoptimizing your campaign for.
So set it up so that, whateveralgorithm you're working with,
let's say, the meta algorithmInstagram knows that that's what
(31:22):
you want.
They know, they understand.
You want people downloading thiscoupon, and they're going to go
after the people who are goingto download that coupon Not just
like any old person who mightlook at your ad and like it, but
people who specifically want todownload that right.
Who might look at your ad andlike it, but people who
specifically want to downloadthat right and that's going to
give you more measurable resultsover time.
(31:43):
And then, after that, it's justpaying attention to your costs.
You know better than any guruout there what is the right cost
for a result for you If you'rea brewery and you're selling
beer.
For you, If you're a brewery andyou're selling beer, you
probably can't afford to bespending $100 per coupon
download, because not everyonewho downloads is going to show
up.
Not everyone who shows up isgoing to become a lifetime
(32:06):
customer, and so you have to dothe math for yourself and figure
out what the right costs are.
And then, once you know whatyour costs are, that's when you
can begin to figure out.
Is this campaign working?
Do I need better ads, differentads, different audiences?
Is everything okay or is thisgreat or is this terrible?
(32:27):
That's where you can begin tofigure it out.
But you've got to know thosecore things of what am I doing
and how much am I willing tospend to do it.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
And it's interesting because, Grace, like the way you
describe it, it sounds likeit's obvious that you need to
set up an actual like end goal,end result.
But we've seen agencies andother people who, whether it's
with Facebook, Google, otherplatforms where they'll
literally just look at theclicks, look at the traffic and
not even know what's happeningin the end.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
So that's why it's important all the time.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
So really it's really really important, just for
especially, people are firststarting out to realize that's
not.
Those are important like littleindicators, but in the end of
the day, if you don't know yourfinal goal, how much that's
costing you to actually getpeople to do it, then you're
really there's.
There's really no point of evenadvertising.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Absolutely.
Now, okay, there are some bigbrands out there.
If you're a Coca-Cola or aMcDonald's, right, that's
different.
You're playing a different game.
You're playing with bazillionsof dollars.
You can do whatever you want,it's fine.
But I'm assuming most marketersout there don't get the luxury
of working for Disney,unfortunately.
(33:38):
So we're out here actuallyhaving to work with budgets and
prove that we are gettingresults.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Yeah, that's fair, because if your marching orders
is, I just want you know for$5,000, I want the most people
to see this.
So then, if your goal is forpeople to see it, that's a
separate thing.
But, like you said, mostbusinesses that we're working
with, most businesses that havea limited amount of money, they
want to be able to see thatmeasurable return on investment
and it's not enough just to makea physical billboard that
(34:08):
people drive by in their carinto a digital billboard on
Instagram.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Exactly.
I think it feels good when yousee website traffic, but I think
a lot of times when our clientscome to us and say what we want
is website traffic, we try tocounsel them away from that and
we try to say, okay, but what'sgoing to actually earn you money
?
Because if you're a newsorganization and you monetize
your clicks, okay, maybe you dowant a lot of traffic, Maybe
that does improve your adrevenue and that is how you pay
(34:34):
your bills.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
But most of the time the way you pay your bills is
not through traffic.
Most of the time it's throughsomething else, and so think
this was before you joinedOptage.
Even then it wasn't just abouttraffic, but it was about, let's
(34:58):
see, what are the articles thatpeople read more of and what
are the topics and categoriesthat work better.
So even then, it wasn't abouttraffic.
We still looked at what theydid on the website and, based
off of that, optimized.
So just a side note.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Yeah, absolutely, 100%, 100%.
So, yes, and sometimes we havetrouble.
We have trouble with boards ofdirectors not understanding and
wanting traffic and we're notgiving them enough traffic and
where's their traffic?
Agreed, but we kind of stick toour guns, right.
We're like look, we're going togive you quality results here.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
So, Grace, what should you do if your campaign
isn't performing well?
Panic.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
No, I'm kidding, no, so.
So I always start personally atthe ad level.
So if I've got a campaign liveand I'm looking at my numbers
and the numbers just aren'tworking out, I I mean, first of
all, I look at my campaignsevery day or every other day,
because it's my job, but yourjob, this may only be part of
(36:00):
your job.
So you need a cadence thatworks for you, right?
But as long as it's regular andyou're checking in, you're good
to go.
So if I see something's notworking out, I'll start at the
ad level and I'll look at theresults for each individual ad
that's live and I'll say okay,so which one of these?
Are any of these working?
(36:20):
Maybe some of them are and someof them just aren't, and that's
causing the overall numbers tolook bad.
But on an ad by ad level, it'sjust one or two that aren't
performing.
If they aren't performing, turnthem off, Get some new ones.
If it's all the ads, okay,yikes.
Now what do we do?
So I go down to another metric,a secondary KPI is what we
(36:44):
would call that.
So instead of purchases, maybeit's clicks Like did they click
through to the website?
They just haven't purchased yet, right?
And so then I'll be able to seeoh, the click-through rates are
great, like people are lovingthese ads, they're just not
buying anything.
Once they get to the website,that indicates that maybe
there's an issue with thewebsite.
(37:05):
Maybe I'm sending them to thewrong place and it's not obvious
enough to them how to make apurchase.
Maybe what they really need ismore information, because it's a
big purchase, like a car or adiamond, right.
So, thinking about where you'resending them and if it makes
sense, and then if theclick-through rates are low,
then maybe what I'm looking atis creative that's not
(37:25):
resonating, or messaging that'snot resonating, and I need to
try something.
Just try something else,because they're not clicking,
it's not hitting with them.
That's the worst.
That's the hardest thing for meto say is just try something
else, because they're notclicking, it's not hitting with
them.
That's the worst.
That's the hardest thing for meto say is just try something
else, because you don't knowwhat.
That's where you have to goback to your research and the
work that you've done buildingup your campaign.
(37:46):
But yeah, you've got to go backto the drawing board and try
something totally different andsee how that goes, but that's
why you want to be checking inon your campaigns pretty
regularly, so you can catch itearly, before it becomes an
emergency.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
So it happens to be that paid social is one of the
it is the most award-winningpart of Optage.
We've won like the paid socialcategory, like five years in a
row at a local awards that weenter every single year.
So I know we have a lot ofsuccess when it comes to paid
social.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Is there any specific example or case study that you
like or that you're proud of,that worked really well and just
want to share a little bitabout it?
For us, the campaigns that werun that do the best at the
awards are ones where somebodyhas a big ticket item that
they're selling and so theamount of money they're spending
on an ad relative to how muchmoney they earn when we get a
sale, that difference is huge.
Their return on investment ishuge and that looks really great
(38:41):
for awards.
And so you know, those are thecampaigns that like we get the
trophies for.
And it's not that I'm not proudof that, but I think the like
the campaigns I love the mostare the ones where we're helping
nonprofits or like smallerbusinesses with very minimal
(39:02):
campaign cash, like money to goto their campaigns have big
success.
To me, that's like the more funand engaging thing, because
you've got to be a littlecreative, right, you don't have
a big budget to work with, youknow.
Then you get into a meetingwith them and they're like this
was the best year ever andthat's so like, that's so
rewarding.
That's my answer personally.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I love that.
So that confirms that even ifsomeone has a low budget, or
what they're selling may not,you know, may not have be the
highest ticket item out there wecan still generate results for
them on paid social.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Exactly, and that may never be the one that gets the
trophy, because, again, thetrophy loves the big, flashy
numbers, right but it's the onethat it's a good win when you
get that news that, like theyhad their most signups ever or
their most donations orsomething like that, that's
really good.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
Grace, are there any common mistakes that you see
beginners make when they'regetting into paid social?
Speaker 2 (39:59):
I think I kind of covered this one a little bit
already with just making sureyou know exactly what your
campaign is trying to do and getit done.
But I will say we talked at thebeginning about how Meta is a
good all-around platform becauseeven if every person in the
world isn't on it, every type ofperson is, every persona is
there.
But you can have really goodsuccess on smaller platforms if,
(40:25):
for example, you really knowyour audience is on that
platform.
I think I mentioned Nextdoor acouple of times now, but if you
know you're looking forhomeowners, that's such a great
way to get in front of them.
Reddit if you know yourcustomers are researching and
doing a lot of thinking beforethey make their move, that can
(40:45):
be a great place to get in frontof them and it's less expensive
because it's less competitiveto show ads there.
I would say, give a littlethought to your platform and to
your customer and make sureyou've got the right platform
customer match for what you'retrying to do.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
So you see, people, a lot of the success lies in all
the things that are actuallyoutside of the platform, even
before you jump in, and I thinkthere's a lot of truth to that.
So, grace, if someone is juststarting out with paid social,
you know they're new to digitalmarketing.
What's the first thing that youfeel like they should do?
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I got some great information from you.
But there are other ways.
There are online courses andthere are even free like there's
(41:40):
so many good free educationalvideos on YouTube.
It's incredible what's outthere.
So just finding a way to learnas much as you can about the
world of digital marketing andthen at a certain point you just
have to do it.
You just have to like it's veryscary the first time someone
(42:01):
puts you in charge of spendingtheir money, but you just have
to do it Like rip the bandaidoff, jump in, get into it and
that's like really the best wayto figure it out.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Love it.
I'm just going to add one morething which I know you agree
with me on, which is about Canva.
You know Canva is a free toolwhen it comes to designing and
really like getting on there,just getting used to creating
designs and you know ads.
I think that is a huge toolthat can be your tool belt.
A couple of years ago, you hadto know Photoshop, which is a
(42:32):
complicated tool, but you know agraphic tool like Canva, which
has a free version and you cando so much with it.
Just learning it and having theknowledge of that that can
really take you far,specifically when it comes to
paid social.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Oh yes, knowing Canva made a really big difference
when I first came to Optitch,because I already had experience
from a previous job that I had,and so when I got here the
first day, I was able to startdesigning ads just right off the
bat.
I didn't need any time to trainup with a tool, and so if
you're still looking for thatfirst job in marketing, if you
(43:07):
can start putting togetherdesigns, learning how to use the
tool, and then you even havesomething you could show if you
wanted to in an interview, right, you could say like I didn't
work for these companies, but Icould like these are the ads I
would design for them if I did.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, love it.
Well Grace, this has been suchan awesome chat.
Although it's supposed to bebeginners, I think we hit
beginners but also someintermediary.
We went deep, which I love, likethat's so cool and that's
what's so fun about digitalmarketing you can always go deep
.
There's always so much to talkabout.
So thanks for being a guest onthe Digital Marketing Mentor and
(43:41):
thank you, listeners, fortuning into the Digital
Marketing Mentor.
We'll speak with you next time.
Thank you for listening to theDigital Marketing Mentor podcast
.
Be sure to check us out onlineat thedmmentorcom and at
thedmmentor on Instagram, anddon't forget to subscribe on
Apple Podcasts, spotify orwherever you listen to your
podcasts for more marketingmentor magic.
(44:04):
See you next time.
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