March 18, 2025 • 17 mins
Can playing The Sims help people build career skills? For Kelsey Alpaio, Executive Editor of The Digital Project Manager and new co-host of the DPM Podcast, the answer is yes. In this episode, we introduce Kelsey and discuss how she’s bringing fresh perspectives on industry trends, career navigation, and professional growth to the DPM community.
Host Galen Low gives listeners a sneak peek into the exciting new directions for the podcast and beyond. From career storytelling to industry insights, get ready for a revamped DPM experience with Kelsey on board!
Resources from this episode:
- Join DPM Membership
- Subscribe to the newsletter to get our latest articles and podcasts
- Connect with Kelsey on LinkedIn
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Galen Low (00:00):
Is it possible to help people build career
skills just by live streamingyourself playing The Sims?
That's just another day ofprofessional education, human
storytelling, and communitybuilding for The Digital
Project Manager's ExecutiveEditor and new co-host of the
DPM Podcast, Kelsey Alpaio.
Kelsey and I are going tobe collaborating on this
podcast and other areas withinour community to deliver a
(00:22):
breadth of perspectives oneverything from emerging
trends and industry gossipto how people are finding
their way through their careerjourneys when all the usual
maps are old and obsolete.
Ready to meet Kelsey?
Hey folks, thanks for tuning in.
My name is Galen Low withThe Digital Project Manager.
(00:43):
We're a community of digitalprofessionals on a mission
to help each other getskilled, get confident, and
get connected so that we canamplify the value of project
management in a digital world.
If you want to hear moreabout that, head on over
to thedpm.com/membership.
All right, today I wanted tointroduce the new co-host of
The Digital Project Managementpodcast and give you the
inside track on some of thespicy plans she's devising for
(01:06):
The Digital Project Manager.
With me in the studio today isKelsey Alpaio, Executive Editor
of The Digital Project Managerand my soon to be partner in
crime for this podcast, inaddition to a slew of new DPM
programming we have on deck.
Kelsey, thanks forbeing here today.
Kelsey Alpaio (01:22):
Thank you for having me.
Galen Low (01:24):
I'm super excited.
I'm going to get into it alittle bit about what you've
been doing with The DigitalProject Manager, but can I just
say, I'm excited to have yoube a co-host on the podcast.
We'll talk about what'sgoing to happen, but I
just think that, it's 2025.
We want to get as manydifferent perspectives as
we can from the digitalproject management world.
We want to talkabout the industry.
There's so much going on.
There's so many people to talkto and I appreciate the help.
Kelsey Alpaio (01:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I'm super excitedto dive in here.
Galen Low (01:50):
I thought maybe I would just start with one
hot, spicy question, whichis Who the heck are you and
what are you passionate about?
And why should anyone listento what you have to say?
No pressure.
Kelsey Alpaio (02:00):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Very hot question.
You did already a greatjob of introducing me.
So I'll dive right intowhat I'm passionate about.
I think in the context, atleast of what we're talking
about here, I'm passionateabout lots of different
things, but when it comes toDPM and the work that we do, I
think the thing that probablydrives me the most is this
idea that I don't think anyoneshould be miserable at work.
(02:25):
Which is not by any meansa new idea, like the bar is
on the floor pretty much.
But I just think thatpeople should enjoy
the work that they do.
We spend so much of ourlives at work, so much of
our time thinking aboutour careers, how we want to
build them and grow them.
And I've found a lot of joy inmaking things that help people
do that and help them navigatetheir careers and navigate that
(02:46):
really confusing and sometimeslike lonely world of work.
And yeah, I hope tokeep doing that here.
And I think the reason whypeople should listen to me
and be there for it is becauseI've spent most of my career
doing just that, finding peopletelling their stories and
helping others navigate thatreally confusing world of work.
Galen Low (03:07):
I love that.
And you know what?
It sometimes needs to besaid because I think it
gets taken for granted.
It's like having a bad mattress.
I think there's likemultiple generations of
humans who are like, Iguess that's just how it is.
Meanwhile, you spend somuch of your life on it.
And you're like, wait,this can be good.
I can get a Sealy Posturepedic.
Kelsey Alpaio (03:22):
Exactly.
Galen Low (03:23):
I can be a different temperature on one side
of the bed than the other.
This is amazing.
And I think we do thatwith work so much.
We're like work, by definitionis hard and miserable and like
it's a slog, and I love thatidea that doesn't have to be.
And by the way, even in our likeproject management community,
especially in the DPM community,we see this so much where it's
okay, yes, this is just theway it is, like unreasonable
(03:45):
timelines and, client requeststhat we have to say yes to,
even if they are absolutelysilly and we just accept it,
but yeah, I love this ideathat, everyone has their story
of how they're navigatingand that helps other people
navigate their careers as well.
Kelsey Alpaio (03:58):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And there's always gonna beparts of work that are hard.
Every job has its downsides,but there are also things
that like you do have morecontrol of than you think.
And yeah, I like finding thosethings and helping people
find those things in theirjobs and their careers too.
Galen Low (04:13):
I thought maybe we could zoom out a bit after my
spicy question, I mentionedit at the top, but you've
actually been the senioreditor for The Digital Project
Manager for almost a year.
You write the DPM weeklynewsletter, which goes out
to, I believe somewherebetween 12 I've lost track.
Kelsey Alpaio (04:29):
Yeah, I think around 20, 000 now.
Galen Low (04:31):
Boom.
And you actually are the personwho's been setting the editorial
strategy for thedpm.com as apublication, working with our
subject matter experts andour contributors to create
just like meaningful, downto earth, accessible content.
But I thought maybe I'd go alittle bit further back and
ask you what were you doingbefore your life here at
The Digital Project Manager?
And how has it played intoyour perspective on the world
(04:51):
of digital project management?
Kelsey Alpaio (04:53):
Yeah, so my origin story.
Galen Low (04:55):
Your origin story, yes.
Kelsey Alpaio (04:57):
I'll go a little bit further back than
my last role because I thinkit does lead into it, but my
first job out of college wasactually at a media startup.
And my role was to coverthe innovation teams of
Fortune 500 companies.
So I essentially spent allday interviewing executives
in these large companies abouttheir innovation projects,
(05:17):
their innovation teams.
the new and interesting projectsthat they were working on.
And in that role, I prettymuch spent every day being
super jealous of these people.
Like, all I wanted in the worldwas to be one of them and to do
the cool and different and weirdthings that they were doing.
So when it came time to leavethat job, I really wanted
(05:38):
to join an innovation teamand get that experience.
And so I was lucky enough to beable to join the Innovation Lab
at Harvard Business Publishing.
And in that role, I spenta lot of time experimenting
with different contentformats and platforms, all
with the goal of creating newaudiences for the publication.
So we experimented witheverything from AR and
(06:01):
VR to generative AI.
I even streamed on Twitchfor six months, which is
super weird and was like thefunnest I ever had at work.
Our goal there was to likefigure out if we belonged on the
Twitch platform, which We didnot, but it was really fun and
gave me a lot of good experienceabout, leading a digital project
(06:21):
and exploring a platform andfiguring out how you actually,
get from point A to pointB to make that decision.
And with that role, whenit came time to move on,
I knew that I wanted tocontinue creating things.
that helped people at work.
And when I found anorganization, BWZ, that
has this mission of helpingpeople win at work, and then
(06:41):
more specifically, the DPM,like wanting to help people
in this really hard andcomplicated role, like I was
immediately drawn to that.
And I think that experience aswell on that innovation team
helped me better understandlike what it actually means
to lead a digital project.
And like in my first sixmonths here, I feel like
every day I was like, Oh mygosh, that's the name of the
(07:04):
methodology or the strategythat I used on XYZ project.
And I just didn'tknow the name of it.
I didn't realize that I hadA little bit fallen into
that PM role as it happens sooften in this niche, but yeah.
Galen Low (07:15):
I love the sort of innovation angle.
I love that sort of ideathat, our brand, The Digital
Project Manager, we needto more vocally recognize
that there's lots of peoplemanaging projects who don't
have a project manager title.
Kelsey Alpaio (07:25):
Absolutely.
Galen Low (07:26):
And, I'm excited to dive into some
of those stories as well.
The Twitch thing, you and I, wewere talking in the green room.
Is this the Sims thing?
Kelsey Alpaio (07:33):
Yes.
Yeah.
So I played The Sims onTwitch once a week for about.
Two to three hours, and thiswas, yeah, so Sims 4, if you're
not familiar with the Sims 4,it is a simulation game where
you play as a person and youinteract with other people
in the world, and there'slike a specific expansion
pack for this game where yougo to work with your Sim.
(07:54):
And so my Sim was a scientistand I went to work with her
every day and you could dothings like ask your co workers
about their salary, you couldhire new people, you could fire
people, you could have a meetingwith your boss, and so basically
for these like two to threehours I was live streaming, I
was basically following thisSim to work and at the same
(08:14):
time talking about the thingsthat she was doing and the
lessons that could be learnedfrom that for the people who
were tuning in and watching.
And this was specifically forearly career professionals, so
we could be a little bit yeah,talk about those early career
challenges that you might face.
But yeah, The Sims wasthe backdrop for that.
It was a lot of fun.
I also love The Sims inreal life, so this was
like a dream for me.
(08:35):
You do not understand.
Galen Low (08:37):
Is there like a project manager job role in
this work expansion pack?
Kelsey Alpaio (08:42):
I don't think so.
I believe you can be like abusinessman or something, or a
doctor, or a vet. You can alsobe an entrepreneur, like you
could run your own bakery orsomething like that, but yeah,
I chose scientists becauseThe Sims is such a weird
universe aliens exist, like,all of these weird elements
(09:04):
that they made up exist.
It's such an interesting game.
Galen Low (09:08):
I love that.
Taking it back down to thestuds, I love that idea of early
career practice, where it's I'mhearing a lot from the younger
generations that, Their worldof work is different than every
previous generation's world ofwork and like some of the things
like, the water cooler talk orthe sort of organic, in office
networking or finding a mentor,things like that are just not
things that either A are thesame or B they feel prepared
(09:28):
to do, because maybe they spentmost of college like, Remote,
actually, or, they've nevermet their colleagues in person.
They're working for adistributed company.
And just that notion of beingable to be like, cool let's talk
about some of the conversationsyou have with people at work.
Yeah.
And how you can navigateyour career and just like
etiquette, and also maybealiens and new elements
Kelsey Alpaio (09:49):
yeah, what to do when you
encounter an alien at work.
Galen Low (09:53):
We might not be that far away from that.
Kelsey Alpaio (09:55):
Maybe not.
Yeah.
Galen Low (09:57):
Oh, actually probably a good segue.
So I mentioned it at thetop, but in just a few weeks,
you'll be stepping in as theco-host of this podcast, the
digital project managementpodcast, so maybe you could
just tell us like what kindof guests you'll be talking
to, what kind of topics areyou going to be covering?
Kelsey Alpaio (10:12):
Yes, so I'm super excited about this.
And just in case anybodyout there is nervous, Galen,
you are not going anywhere.
You will still beon the podcast.
It would not be thesame without you.
But yeah, I'm excited tobe stepping in to take over
the conversations that we'rehaving about PM careers.
So everything from the jobmarket to layoffs to promotions
(10:32):
to freelancing, like you nameit, we're going to tackle it.
But also things like industrytrends, we'll talk about
upskilling pretty much All ofthe things that will hopefully
help our listeners continueto win in their PM roles.
And so in terms of guests,we're looking at PM experts,
practitioners, recruiters,people who will be able to give
(10:55):
advice that will help all of yougrow in your careers and people
who themselves have reallygreat career stories to tell.
Galen Low (11:01):
Boom.
I love that.
I like that youmentioned recruiter.
I think that's really clever.
Just like seeing the rolefrom the other side as well,
I think is really important.
And the big thing that I'mpicking up that I love is like
the storytelling, there's allthese stories to be told about,
projects, leaders and theirjourney and also other industry
folks and their journey.
And how it all stitchestogether into this ecosystem.
That is our industryand where it's headed.
Kelsey Alpaio (11:22):
Yes, exactly.
Galen Low (11:23):
That's super exciting.
I love it.
And for folks, yeah,I'm not going anywhere.
Sorry.
But when can people tune intoyour episodes just in case they
want it to safely avoid mine?
Kelsey Alpaio (11:34):
Oh my gosh, they'd be doing themselves
a huge disservice.
But yeah, we'll be publishingevery other week in the main
DPM podcast feed, so you'llbe able to find us wherever
you're finding us right now.
Galen Low (11:44):
Boom.
And Punchy, longwinded like Galen, or?
Kelsey Alpaio (11:49):
No, we're going to be going for
pretty short episodes.
We want to get that advice outthere and get you on your way.
Galen Low (11:55):
Love it.
You're someone who isvery community oriented,
you're an innovator.
If folks have ideas of liketopics to cover or people to
have on your show, how canthey get in touch with you?
How can they getthese ideas to you?
Kelsey Alpaio (12:05):
Yes, please.
I would love to heareverybody's ideas.
You can reach outto me on LinkedIn.
I'm the only KelseyAlpaio out there.
So if you search me,you will find me.
And otherwise, if you dosubscribe to the DPM newsletter,
that comes directly frommy personal email address.
So if you reply tothat, I actually get it
directly into my inbox.
So also feel free to email me.
(12:26):
And yeah, I would just loveto hear from anyone, whether
you have an idea, whether youwant to be on the podcast,
yeah, shoot me an email.
Send me a message on LinkedIn.
I'd love to connect.
Galen Low (12:34):
Boom.
Love that.
I'll link that in theshow notes as well.
You are the only Kelsey Alpaio.
Kelsey Alpaio (12:39):
I am.
Galen Low (12:39):
I actually found there's another Galen Low.
And I was like, Oh man, Igot to connect with with
my other on LinkedIn.
Kelsey Alpaio (12:46):
You should create a club.
Galen Low (12:48):
You did mention the DPM newsletter.
I wanted to maybe just closeout with a silly question,
but even a personal curiosity.
You send every week andfolks who are familiar with
the newsletter will knowthat you also make a song
recommendation every week.
Kelsey Alpaio (13:00):
Yes.
Galen Low (13:01):
And I wondered, can you just level with us?
Do you pick all the tunes?
What is your process?
And even regardless ofall of that, what is your
musical genre of choice?
Kelsey Alpaio (13:09):
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
So you're definitely callingme out a little bit here.
So I have been sending thenewsletter for about six months
now, and I will be honest, mostof last year when I was sending
it out, I was not picking thesong because I would get to
the end of the newsletter andI'd be like, Oh my gosh, I just
wrote this whole newsletter.
And now I have to gofind a song that I think
everyone's going to like.
And what if they judgeme for my music taste?
(13:31):
So most of the time it wasour editor, Nula, and our
marketing person, Jason,who were picking the songs
and they did a great job.
They have excellent music taste,but I was feeling bad about
about not picking the songs.
So I decided as of January1st this year, I would
pick all of the songs.
So if you have been getting thenewsletter over the last few
(13:53):
weeks, or if you subscribe, thatsong will be one of my choosing.
I will say choosing thesong is actually one
of the most stressfulparts of the newsletter.
Like I go through three or four.
And so what I started to dorecently over the last two
weeks, like I've only beendoing it for four weeks.
And then.
After two weeks, I waslike, this is too much.
So for the last couple ofweeks, I've just been like
(14:13):
putting whatever song isplaying while I'm doing that
part of the newsletter, that'sgoing in the newsletter.
So we're trying tostreamline things here,
trying to get more done.
But yeah, that waytoo, it's like actually
something I'm listening to.
And then, it's apersonal relation to me.
But I will say in terms ofgenre, most of the time,
it's like indie rock.
I really like 80s pop music orlike sad girl music, like Phoebe
(14:37):
Bridgers, that kind of thing.
But yeah, it's acrossthe board a little bit.
But yeah, what about you, Galen?
Do you have a genrethat you like?
Galen Low (14:44):
Oh, there's a lot of like Canadian punk and
screamo that I don't reallytell people that I listen
to, but yeah, I actuallyhave quite aggressive music
taste and darker German bass.
So yeah, I was never allowedto do the song pick when I
was sending a newsletter.
Kelsey Alpaio (14:58):
I was going to offer a guest spot for you,
but now I'm questioning it.
I might not be able to,if I do, it's going to
have your name on it.
Galen Low (15:05):
You do get a really good response.
So people actually like replyand they're like, you know what?
That jam helped me through myweek and music is obviously
part of your process.
I think it's really good.
And we did actually,I think last year.
We published a Spotify playlist,which was the DPM 2024 playlist,
all the recommendations, all,50 odd recommendations from the
newsletter and probably more.
(15:25):
And I look forward tothis year's Kelsey Alpaio
2025 DPM Spotify playlist.
So stay tuned for that.
Kelsey Alpaio (15:33):
Stay tuned.
Galen Low (15:34):
Anything else exciting outside of the podcast
that's on deck for the DPMthat you wanted to tease?
Kelsey Alpaio (15:40):
Yes.
So most of our listenershave probably heard about our
Salary Survey for 2025, butthe results of that are going
to be coming out shortly.
So definitely keep aneye out on your inbox and
on our website for that.
That's going to be a big deal.
Galen Low (15:54):
Love that one.
And honestly, like it's alwaysa topic of conversation.
Ties into what you'retalking about with career.
The ranges of compensationare very wide and varied
for project manager roles.
And we had some really goodI've seen the participation
just really arc. Sue hassome really good data.
I'm excited about that.
Kelsey Alpaio (16:09):
Me too.
Yeah.
I love all thingssalary transparency.
That's a topic I couldtalk about forever.
Galen Low (16:14):
Boom.
Awesome.
We'll have you back on my show.
I love that.
I'm really excited whatyou're bringing to the table.
I'm excited to have someof the conversations that
you've got planned comingthrough this podcast.
And I'm excited to have youmore involved in the community.
Kelsey Alpaio (16:29):
Me too.
Galen Low (16:30):
Yeah, I think it's going to be great.
Kelsey Alpai (16:31):
Shared excitement.
Galen Low (16:32):
There you go.
All right folks,there you have it.
As always, if you'd like tojoin our conversation with
over a thousand like-mindedproject management champions,
come join our collective!Head over to
thedpm.com/membershipto learn more.
And if you like what youheard today, please subscribe
and stay in touch onthedigitalprojectmanager.com.
Until next time,thanks for listening.
Is it possible to help people build career
skills just by live streamingyourself playing The Sims?
That's just another day ofprofessional education, human
storytelling, and communitybuilding for The Digital
Project Manager's ExecutiveEditor and new co-host of the
DPM Podcast, Kelsey Alpaio.
Kelsey and I are going tobe collaborating on this
podcast and other areas withinour community to deliver a
(00:22):
breadth of perspectives oneverything from emerging
trends and industry gossipto how people are finding
their way through their careerjourneys when all the usual
maps are old and obsolete.
Ready to meet Kelsey?
Hey folks, thanks for tuning in.
My name is Galen Low withThe Digital Project Manager.
(00:43):
We're a community of digitalprofessionals on a mission
to help each other getskilled, get confident, and
get connected so that we canamplify the value of project
management in a digital world.
If you want to hear moreabout that, head on over
to thedpm.com/membership.
All right, today I wanted tointroduce the new co-host of
The Digital Project Managementpodcast and give you the
inside track on some of thespicy plans she's devising for
(01:06):
The Digital Project Manager.
With me in the studio today isKelsey Alpaio, Executive Editor
of The Digital Project Managerand my soon to be partner in
crime for this podcast, inaddition to a slew of new DPM
programming we have on deck.
Kelsey, thanks forbeing here today.
Kelsey Alpaio (01:22):
Thank you for having me.
Galen Low (01:24):
I'm super excited.
I'm going to get into it alittle bit about what you've
been doing with The DigitalProject Manager, but can I just
say, I'm excited to have yoube a co-host on the podcast.
We'll talk about what'sgoing to happen, but I
just think that, it's 2025.
We want to get as manydifferent perspectives as
we can from the digitalproject management world.
We want to talkabout the industry.
There's so much going on.
There's so many people to talkto and I appreciate the help.
Kelsey Alpaio (01:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
No, I'm super excitedto dive in here.
Galen Low (01:50):
I thought maybe I would just start with one
hot, spicy question, whichis Who the heck are you and
what are you passionate about?
And why should anyone listento what you have to say?
No pressure.
Kelsey Alpaio (02:00):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Very hot question.
You did already a greatjob of introducing me.
So I'll dive right intowhat I'm passionate about.
I think in the context, atleast of what we're talking
about here, I'm passionateabout lots of different
things, but when it comes toDPM and the work that we do, I
think the thing that probablydrives me the most is this
idea that I don't think anyoneshould be miserable at work.
(02:25):
Which is not by any meansa new idea, like the bar is
on the floor pretty much.
But I just think thatpeople should enjoy
the work that they do.
We spend so much of ourlives at work, so much of
our time thinking aboutour careers, how we want to
build them and grow them.
And I've found a lot of joy inmaking things that help people
do that and help them navigatetheir careers and navigate that
(02:46):
really confusing and sometimeslike lonely world of work.
And yeah, I hope tokeep doing that here.
And I think the reason whypeople should listen to me
and be there for it is becauseI've spent most of my career
doing just that, finding peopletelling their stories and
helping others navigate thatreally confusing world of work.
Galen Low (03:07):
I love that.
And you know what?
It sometimes needs to besaid because I think it
gets taken for granted.
It's like having a bad mattress.
I think there's likemultiple generations of
humans who are like, Iguess that's just how it is.
Meanwhile, you spend somuch of your life on it.
And you're like, wait,this can be good.
I can get a Sealy Posturepedic.
Kelsey Alpaio (03:22):
Exactly.
Galen Low (03:23):
I can be a different temperature on one side
of the bed than the other.
This is amazing.
And I think we do thatwith work so much.
We're like work, by definitionis hard and miserable and like
it's a slog, and I love thatidea that doesn't have to be.
And by the way, even in our likeproject management community,
especially in the DPM community,we see this so much where it's
okay, yes, this is just theway it is, like unreasonable
(03:45):
timelines and, client requeststhat we have to say yes to,
even if they are absolutelysilly and we just accept it,
but yeah, I love this ideathat, everyone has their story
of how they're navigatingand that helps other people
navigate their careers as well.
Kelsey Alpaio (03:58):
Exactly.
Yeah.
And there's always gonna beparts of work that are hard.
Every job has its downsides,but there are also things
that like you do have morecontrol of than you think.
And yeah, I like finding thosethings and helping people
find those things in theirjobs and their careers too.
Galen Low (04:13):
I thought maybe we could zoom out a bit after my
spicy question, I mentionedit at the top, but you've
actually been the senioreditor for The Digital Project
Manager for almost a year.
You write the DPM weeklynewsletter, which goes out
to, I believe somewherebetween 12 I've lost track.
Kelsey Alpaio (04:29):
Yeah, I think around 20, 000 now.
Galen Low (04:31):
Boom.
And you actually are the personwho's been setting the editorial
strategy for thedpm.com as apublication, working with our
subject matter experts andour contributors to create
just like meaningful, downto earth, accessible content.
But I thought maybe I'd go alittle bit further back and
ask you what were you doingbefore your life here at
The Digital Project Manager?
And how has it played intoyour perspective on the world
(04:51):
of digital project management?
Kelsey Alpaio (04:53):
Yeah, so my origin story.
Galen Low (04:55):
Your origin story, yes.
Kelsey Alpaio (04:57):
I'll go a little bit further back than
my last role because I thinkit does lead into it, but my
first job out of college wasactually at a media startup.
And my role was to coverthe innovation teams of
Fortune 500 companies.
So I essentially spent allday interviewing executives
in these large companies abouttheir innovation projects,
(05:17):
their innovation teams.
the new and interesting projectsthat they were working on.
And in that role, I prettymuch spent every day being
super jealous of these people.
Like, all I wanted in the worldwas to be one of them and to do
the cool and different and weirdthings that they were doing.
So when it came time to leavethat job, I really wanted
(05:38):
to join an innovation teamand get that experience.
And so I was lucky enough to beable to join the Innovation Lab
at Harvard Business Publishing.
And in that role, I spenta lot of time experimenting
with different contentformats and platforms, all
with the goal of creating newaudiences for the publication.
So we experimented witheverything from AR and
(06:01):
VR to generative AI.
I even streamed on Twitchfor six months, which is
super weird and was like thefunnest I ever had at work.
Our goal there was to likefigure out if we belonged on the
Twitch platform, which We didnot, but it was really fun and
gave me a lot of good experienceabout, leading a digital project
(06:21):
and exploring a platform andfiguring out how you actually,
get from point A to pointB to make that decision.
And with that role, whenit came time to move on,
I knew that I wanted tocontinue creating things.
that helped people at work.
And when I found anorganization, BWZ, that
has this mission of helpingpeople win at work, and then
(06:41):
more specifically, the DPM,like wanting to help people
in this really hard andcomplicated role, like I was
immediately drawn to that.
And I think that experience aswell on that innovation team
helped me better understandlike what it actually means
to lead a digital project.
And like in my first sixmonths here, I feel like
every day I was like, Oh mygosh, that's the name of the
(07:04):
methodology or the strategythat I used on XYZ project.
And I just didn'tknow the name of it.
I didn't realize that I hadA little bit fallen into
that PM role as it happens sooften in this niche, but yeah.
Galen Low (07:15):
I love the sort of innovation angle.
I love that sort of ideathat, our brand, The Digital
Project Manager, we needto more vocally recognize
that there's lots of peoplemanaging projects who don't
have a project manager title.
Kelsey Alpaio (07:25):
Absolutely.
Galen Low (07:26):
And, I'm excited to dive into some
of those stories as well.
The Twitch thing, you and I, wewere talking in the green room.
Is this the Sims thing?
Kelsey Alpaio (07:33):
Yes.
Yeah.
So I played The Sims onTwitch once a week for about.
Two to three hours, and thiswas, yeah, so Sims 4, if you're
not familiar with the Sims 4,it is a simulation game where
you play as a person and youinteract with other people
in the world, and there'slike a specific expansion
pack for this game where yougo to work with your Sim.
(07:54):
And so my Sim was a scientistand I went to work with her
every day and you could dothings like ask your co workers
about their salary, you couldhire new people, you could fire
people, you could have a meetingwith your boss, and so basically
for these like two to threehours I was live streaming, I
was basically following thisSim to work and at the same
(08:14):
time talking about the thingsthat she was doing and the
lessons that could be learnedfrom that for the people who
were tuning in and watching.
And this was specifically forearly career professionals, so
we could be a little bit yeah,talk about those early career
challenges that you might face.
But yeah, The Sims wasthe backdrop for that.
It was a lot of fun.
I also love The Sims inreal life, so this was
like a dream for me.
(08:35):
You do not understand.
Galen Low (08:37):
Is there like a project manager job role in
this work expansion pack?
Kelsey Alpaio (08:42):
I don't think so.
I believe you can be like abusinessman or something, or a
doctor, or a vet. You can alsobe an entrepreneur, like you
could run your own bakery orsomething like that, but yeah,
I chose scientists becauseThe Sims is such a weird
universe aliens exist, like,all of these weird elements
(09:04):
that they made up exist.
It's such an interesting game.
Galen Low (09:08):
I love that.
Taking it back down to thestuds, I love that idea of early
career practice, where it's I'mhearing a lot from the younger
generations that, Their worldof work is different than every
previous generation's world ofwork and like some of the things
like, the water cooler talk orthe sort of organic, in office
networking or finding a mentor,things like that are just not
things that either A are thesame or B they feel prepared
(09:28):
to do, because maybe they spentmost of college like, Remote,
actually, or, they've nevermet their colleagues in person.
They're working for adistributed company.
And just that notion of beingable to be like, cool let's talk
about some of the conversationsyou have with people at work.
Yeah.
And how you can navigateyour career and just like
etiquette, and also maybealiens and new elements
Kelsey Alpaio (09:49):
yeah, what to do when you
encounter an alien at work.
Galen Low (09:53):
We might not be that far away from that.
Kelsey Alpaio (09:55):
Maybe not.
Yeah.
Galen Low (09:57):
Oh, actually probably a good segue.
So I mentioned it at thetop, but in just a few weeks,
you'll be stepping in as theco-host of this podcast, the
digital project managementpodcast, so maybe you could
just tell us like what kindof guests you'll be talking
to, what kind of topics areyou going to be covering?
Kelsey Alpaio (10:12):
Yes, so I'm super excited about this.
And just in case anybodyout there is nervous, Galen,
you are not going anywhere.
You will still beon the podcast.
It would not be thesame without you.
But yeah, I'm excited tobe stepping in to take over
the conversations that we'rehaving about PM careers.
So everything from the jobmarket to layoffs to promotions
(10:32):
to freelancing, like you nameit, we're going to tackle it.
But also things like industrytrends, we'll talk about
upskilling pretty much All ofthe things that will hopefully
help our listeners continueto win in their PM roles.
And so in terms of guests,we're looking at PM experts,
practitioners, recruiters,people who will be able to give
(10:55):
advice that will help all of yougrow in your careers and people
who themselves have reallygreat career stories to tell.
Galen Low (11:01):
Boom.
I love that.
I like that youmentioned recruiter.
I think that's really clever.
Just like seeing the rolefrom the other side as well,
I think is really important.
And the big thing that I'mpicking up that I love is like
the storytelling, there's allthese stories to be told about,
projects, leaders and theirjourney and also other industry
folks and their journey.
And how it all stitchestogether into this ecosystem.
That is our industryand where it's headed.
Kelsey Alpaio (11:22):
Yes, exactly.
Galen Low (11:23):
That's super exciting.
I love it.
And for folks, yeah,I'm not going anywhere.
Sorry.
But when can people tune intoyour episodes just in case they
want it to safely avoid mine?
Kelsey Alpaio (11:34):
Oh my gosh, they'd be doing themselves
a huge disservice.
But yeah, we'll be publishingevery other week in the main
DPM podcast feed, so you'llbe able to find us wherever
you're finding us right now.
Galen Low (11:44):
Boom.
And Punchy, longwinded like Galen, or?
Kelsey Alpaio (11:49):
No, we're going to be going for
pretty short episodes.
We want to get that advice outthere and get you on your way.
Galen Low (11:55):
Love it.
You're someone who isvery community oriented,
you're an innovator.
If folks have ideas of liketopics to cover or people to
have on your show, how canthey get in touch with you?
How can they getthese ideas to you?
Kelsey Alpaio (12:05):
Yes, please.
I would love to heareverybody's ideas.
You can reach outto me on LinkedIn.
I'm the only KelseyAlpaio out there.
So if you search me,you will find me.
And otherwise, if you dosubscribe to the DPM newsletter,
that comes directly frommy personal email address.
So if you reply tothat, I actually get it
directly into my inbox.
So also feel free to email me.
(12:26):
And yeah, I would just loveto hear from anyone, whether
you have an idea, whether youwant to be on the podcast,
yeah, shoot me an email.
Send me a message on LinkedIn.
I'd love to connect.
Galen Low (12:34):
Boom.
Love that.
I'll link that in theshow notes as well.
You are the only Kelsey Alpaio.
Kelsey Alpaio (12:39):
I am.
Galen Low (12:39):
I actually found there's another Galen Low.
And I was like, Oh man, Igot to connect with with
my other on LinkedIn.
Kelsey Alpaio (12:46):
You should create a club.
Galen Low (12:48):
You did mention the DPM newsletter.
I wanted to maybe just closeout with a silly question,
but even a personal curiosity.
You send every week andfolks who are familiar with
the newsletter will knowthat you also make a song
recommendation every week.
Kelsey Alpaio (13:00):
Yes.
Galen Low (13:01):
And I wondered, can you just level with us?
Do you pick all the tunes?
What is your process?
And even regardless ofall of that, what is your
musical genre of choice?
Kelsey Alpaio (13:09):
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
So you're definitely callingme out a little bit here.
So I have been sending thenewsletter for about six months
now, and I will be honest, mostof last year when I was sending
it out, I was not picking thesong because I would get to
the end of the newsletter andI'd be like, Oh my gosh, I just
wrote this whole newsletter.
And now I have to gofind a song that I think
everyone's going to like.
And what if they judgeme for my music taste?
(13:31):
So most of the time it wasour editor, Nula, and our
marketing person, Jason,who were picking the songs
and they did a great job.
They have excellent music taste,but I was feeling bad about
about not picking the songs.
So I decided as of January1st this year, I would
pick all of the songs.
So if you have been getting thenewsletter over the last few
(13:53):
weeks, or if you subscribe, thatsong will be one of my choosing.
I will say choosing thesong is actually one
of the most stressfulparts of the newsletter.
Like I go through three or four.
And so what I started to dorecently over the last two
weeks, like I've only beendoing it for four weeks.
And then.
After two weeks, I waslike, this is too much.
So for the last couple ofweeks, I've just been like
(14:13):
putting whatever song isplaying while I'm doing that
part of the newsletter, that'sgoing in the newsletter.
So we're trying tostreamline things here,
trying to get more done.
But yeah, that waytoo, it's like actually
something I'm listening to.
And then, it's apersonal relation to me.
But I will say in terms ofgenre, most of the time,
it's like indie rock.
I really like 80s pop music orlike sad girl music, like Phoebe
(14:37):
Bridgers, that kind of thing.
But yeah, it's acrossthe board a little bit.
But yeah, what about you, Galen?
Do you have a genrethat you like?
Galen Low (14:44):
Oh, there's a lot of like Canadian punk and
screamo that I don't reallytell people that I listen
to, but yeah, I actuallyhave quite aggressive music
taste and darker German bass.
So yeah, I was never allowedto do the song pick when I
was sending a newsletter.
Kelsey Alpaio (14:58):
I was going to offer a guest spot for you,
but now I'm questioning it.
I might not be able to,if I do, it's going to
have your name on it.
Galen Low (15:05):
You do get a really good response.
So people actually like replyand they're like, you know what?
That jam helped me through myweek and music is obviously
part of your process.
I think it's really good.
And we did actually,I think last year.
We published a Spotify playlist,which was the DPM 2024 playlist,
all the recommendations, all,50 odd recommendations from the
newsletter and probably more.
(15:25):
And I look forward tothis year's Kelsey Alpaio
2025 DPM Spotify playlist.
So stay tuned for that.
Kelsey Alpaio (15:33):
Stay tuned.
Galen Low (15:34):
Anything else exciting outside of the podcast
that's on deck for the DPMthat you wanted to tease?
Kelsey Alpaio (15:40):
Yes.
So most of our listenershave probably heard about our
Salary Survey for 2025, butthe results of that are going
to be coming out shortly.
So definitely keep aneye out on your inbox and
on our website for that.
That's going to be a big deal.
Galen Low (15:54):
Love that one.
And honestly, like it's alwaysa topic of conversation.
Ties into what you'retalking about with career.
The ranges of compensationare very wide and varied
for project manager roles.
And we had some really goodI've seen the participation
just really arc. Sue hassome really good data.
I'm excited about that.
Kelsey Alpaio (16:09):
Me too.
Yeah.
I love all thingssalary transparency.
That's a topic I couldtalk about forever.
Galen Low (16:14):
Boom.
Awesome.
We'll have you back on my show.
I love that.
I'm really excited whatyou're bringing to the table.
I'm excited to have someof the conversations that
you've got planned comingthrough this podcast.
And I'm excited to have youmore involved in the community.
Kelsey Alpaio (16:29):
Me too.
Galen Low (16:30):
Yeah, I think it's going to be great.
Kelsey Alpai (16:31):
Shared excitement.
Galen Low (16:32):
There you go.
All right folks,there you have it.
As always, if you'd like tojoin our conversation with
over a thousand like-mindedproject management champions,
come join our collective!Head over to
thedpm.com/membershipto learn more.
And if you like what youheard today, please subscribe
and stay in touch onthedigitalprojectmanager.com.
Until next time,thanks for listening.
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