September 20, 2025 • 46 mins
"You can't heal while you're still bleeding." This powerful truth forms the foundation of our exploration into the complex relationship between healing, justice, and accountability for victims of trauma and harassment.
When systems offer therapy as a substitute for justice, they create an impossible situation for survivors. Mental health support becomes merely a coping mechanism—a bandage on a wound that's still being cut open. Through personal experiences with cyber stalking and institutional responses, we uncover how authorities, universities, and even well-meaning individuals often use therapy referrals as checkbox solutions that shift responsibility away from perpetrators and onto victims.
The privacy paradox presents another significant barrier to healing. For those experiencing digital harassment, therapy sessions can become compromised spaces when stalkers infiltrate these sacred conversations. Meanwhile, when mental health professionals question the reality of a victim's experience, they inadvertently reinforce the gaslighting tactics of abusers.
Spiritual healing adds another dimension to recovery, addressing trauma's impact on our sense of meaning and connection. However, like therapy, spiritual support works best alongside justice, not as its replacement. The most effective healing happens when all three pillars work together: therapy processing the trauma, spiritual practices restoring meaning, and justice systems ensuring safety through accountability.
By honoring the full humanity of survivors and rejecting one-size-fits-all approaches, we can create pathways to genuine healing. Share this episode if it resonates with you, start a conversation about holistic approaches to trauma recovery, and remember that healing isn't linear—it's a journey that requires truth, safety, and justice as its foundation.
Ever felt like your darkest fears of being watched were actually true? Well, this powerful documentation pulls back the curtain on life as a targeted individual—where privacy becomes fiction and safety an illusion. This series stands as both documentation and resistance—a refusal to be silenced despite overwhelming odds.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marie Destinee a La Grandeur (00:05):
Hi everyone, I'm Marie.
Welcome back to the Dire-Rie ofa Sane Black Woman where
privacy becomes fiction andsafety an illusion.
This series stands as bothdocumentation and resistance, a
refusal to be silenced despiteoverwhelming odds.
(00:26):
Today, we will be looking intothe intersections of healing,
justice and truth, becausehealing isn't just a shortcut,
it's a journey, and it startswith truth.
So what are we talking abouthere?
So we're essentially talkingabout the ways mental health
(00:48):
support, spiritual healing andjustice all play a role in the
victim's recovery from trauma.
And so here's the catch, right.
None of them can replace theother.
It's not either, or it's, it'sboth, and in some cases it's all
three, right?
(01:08):
Um?
So we're looking at it from aholistic standpoint.
It's about incorporating allthree, and so, therefore,
therapy isn't a shortcut tojustice.
Essentially, spiritual healingisn't a substitute for
accountability, and justicealone doesn't heal the soul,
(01:29):
because you can't heal whileyou're still bleeding.
That's the reality for victimsof abuse, harassment and trauma,
especially when systems offertherapy as a substitute for
justice.
In my case, that has been myexperience and I've basically
said this to therapists verbatimto authorities look, how can I
(01:53):
heal if I'm still being stabbedconstantly?
I'm still bleeding.
How am I going to heal, right,and so let's get into it.
So in this first segment, I wantto look at mental health and
how mental health is not asubstitute for justice.
So let's start with the mentalhealth piece, right?
(02:14):
So therapy is powerful, right?
I applaud therapy.
I have gone to therapy beforeand you know therapy should
definitely not be stigmatized.
You know, getting mental healthis not, it's not bad, right,
(02:35):
but it's the way that we goabout it.
So therapy basically gives ustools to cope with what we're
going through, right, to processwhat we're going through and to
survive.
But, most importantly, we'regoing through right, to process
what we're going through and tosurvive, but most importantly,
to heal, hopefully, right.
That is the ultimate goal.
But too often, especially incases of abuse or harassment
(02:57):
like cyber stalking, cyberharassment, so forth and so on,
therapy is offered as a way tocheck a box, right?
So authorities, institutionsand even well-meaning people
will say you should talk tosomeone, and then they walk away
, as if that's the end of theirresponsibility or the story,
(03:17):
right?
As if therapy is going to makeall of this go away.
The cyber stalking isautomatically going to stop, the
harassment is going to stop.
It's not.
Here's the truth.
You can't heal while you'restill bleeding, right?
I just said that.
And if the abuse is ongoing,therapy becomes a coping
(03:37):
mechanism, which is good.
I think that we do need to copewith what we're going through.
Right For me, I've used therapy, as well as my spirituality, as
a coping mechanism, but whileI'm going through what I'm going
through, it's not a path to myhealing, it's just a coping
(03:59):
mechanism in this juncture or inthis phase of the process.
Right, I'm not necessarilygetting over anything, right?
I'm just trying to stay afloatat this point.
And so, when systems usetherapy as a way to essentially
avoid accountability, it feelslike emotional gaslighting,
(04:20):
right, like your pain is beingredirected inward instead of
being addressed outward, and soyou know.
I just want to, for a briefmoment, reflect on myself and
the things that I have done,basically to help myself in the
situation that I'm currentlyfaced with.
You may be asking well, marie,have you gone to therapy?
(04:42):
Absolutely, I've gone totherapy.
I've gone to a few therapists.
Am I still in therapy?
No, do I want to go to therapy?
Yes, but here's the thing WhileI have gone to therapy on
numerous occasions and I did Idid hit some, some roadblocks,
(05:04):
and so the first roadblock forme was the privacy piece, right,
so I'm someone that is beingdigitally stalked, right?
Cyber harassed, cyber stalkedeverywhere I go, it doesn't
matter where I go, they're therein some way they're tapping
into that network to basicallystalk me, and so, to no fault of
(05:26):
the therapist, somehow mytherapy sessions slash topics of
discussion were getting leaked,and I've actually experienced
that in my spiritual sessionswith my spiritual leaders,
whether it be pastors or youknow whoever you know I'm
seeking at that point in time.
And so, in my experience, um,at the time when I was going to
(05:50):
therapy a couple of years ago,um, I would go into class.
Um, it's I think it's been ayear plus and it's not two years
yet.
I'm going to class and have thestudents.
The students would basically bemaking subliminal comments or
ask questions hinting tosubjects and topics that I
(06:14):
discussed in my sessions, and soimagine how would that make me
feel.
Or, if you were in my shoes,like, how would you feel about
that?
Right, um, therapy confession.
These are some of the mostsacred um things or spaces that
we're in where someone shouldfeel like they could be
(06:34):
vulnerable, right, completelyvulnerable.
And if there are people spyingon your sessions or leaking info
to third parties, it makes itreally hard to dive deep and
talk about what really has beengoing on, how you're feeling and
essentially tapping into thedeeper feelings or the deeper
(06:56):
experiences that you hadthroughout your lifetime, you
know, and basically uncoveringthose things so that you know
the therapist can help you havea significant breakthrough in
your healing process.
So my first roadblock, as Imentioned, was the privacy issue
(07:17):
.
Right, and again, to no faultof the therapist, it was just
basically the cyber stalkers.
And so, despite that, I wantedto continue.
I wanted to continue on mytherapy journey and so I
continued to go and we trieddifferent things.
You know, we would leave myphone and her phone out of the
(07:41):
session.
Her laptop and everything wouldbe.
You know would go to the frontroom just to kind of, you know,
like an extra step, to try tomake sure that maybe no one is
listening, that they're nottapping into our devices.
You know, regardless of allthose steps, somehow they were
still hacking into our sessionsand these were live sessions,
(08:02):
right, because I was soconscious about what was going
on, I made sure that I went inperson, you know, for my
sessions.
But um, with that being said,you know, the spying and the
stalking continue.
Now this brings me to thesecond roadblock.
(08:22):
My second roadblock was that mytherapist seemed to be
questioning my reality, right?
So maybe I want to say, a fewmonths into it, maybe four or
three months, maybe four, aboutsix months into our sessions,
she actually was questioningwhether, well, you know some of
(08:46):
the things you're saying, I'mnot kind of.
You know, I can't really makesense out of what you're saying.
I can't put the pieces together.
You know, are these thingsreally happening to you?
Am I imagining them all?
You know the spying, thesubliminal and explicit
harassment, you know, just toname a few.
(09:07):
So, essentially, at that point Ididn't feel like I could
continue, right?
So the one thing that you'relooking for from your therapist
is validation.
You're looking for someone thatactually believes what you're
saying.
I'm not saying that a therapistshould condone hallucination or
delusion.
However, you know, in my case Ifeel like I wanted someone
(09:32):
first.
My first step was privacy.
Second step was to find someonethat actually understood where
I was coming from and thatbelieved my truth and my reality
.
So I didn't feel like she couldhelp me heal, because she
didn't understand my experienceand she didn't believe what I
was going through.
So, for me, that was aroadblock and so I could not
(09:55):
continue.
And so, um, and I know, andeveryone else out there,
especially the ones that are inthe groups, in the group chats
or the ones that are sending thesubliminal messages, the ones
that are posting online, becausethis situation has gone viral,
right, you know I'm nothallucinating, you know I'm not
(10:18):
delusional, you know I'm beingstalked.
So, for me, my experience, um, Icould not continue, you know,
to see this therapist because,um, there was a disconnect,
right, and so I obviously I'mnot going to convince her to
believe me, but I also need tobe in a place where my truth is
(10:40):
being accepted and validated.
So, um, with that being said,you know I tried, I already had
some therapy books and, like youknow, that basically gives you,
um, like coping mechanisms andthings of that nature.
And then also, I have, you know, my prayer life and my
spiritual life, which also washelping me, um, cope through,
(11:01):
but you know not to say thatthat's a substitute to therapy.
So I was still, I was stillinterested in therapy, not
necessarily to heal from theprocess because I was still
going through it, but to copewith the process and then to
also address, maybe, like pasttraumas and things like that,
(11:24):
because, um, you know, it's allconnected, I believe.
And so a few months down theline, um, I did find a therapist
, um that actually dealt with um, her specialty, and um, the,
the, the website that I found.
They actually specialize um inum, basically uh, healing or um
(11:49):
doing sessions with the victimsof cyber abuse and harassment,
and so for me that was actuallykey and um, so I had one session
with her.
It was sort of like a testsession, but unfortunately I was
unable to continue due to theprivacy concerns because she was
(12:09):
only virtual right.
So in that instance I wouldonly be able to meet with her
either over the phone or Zoom.
So I had to put that on pausefor the time being.
And so, you know, that was kindof like um, the, the steps that
I personally took, I voluntarilytook to actually seek, um, you
(12:33):
know, help or you know, seek atherapist to kind of help me
cope with what I was goingthrough.
Now, that's not to say that'sthe only time that I've been to
therapy.
I've been to therapy before forother things, but you know, for
this particular situation thesewere the two instances that you
know I actually, you know, wentto therapy and you know I
(12:55):
sought out a therapist.
So now this, you know, as Isaid, this was me seeking mental
health services on my own.
But now, like, let's fastforward to mental health
services or therapists beingrecommended to me by authorities
or you know the powers.
(13:15):
That be right.
So let's start off with myuniversity.
So in the previous session Imentioned how I was in a
master's program, I was gettingmy second master's at a pretty
prestigious university in NewYork and, um, you know I had
raised concerns to theuniversity about what was going
(13:38):
on.
Um, I also raised concerns tothe police at the time where I
lived on the East Coast I'm nowon the West Coast they all
referred me to therapy and whenI brought up my situation, when
(13:59):
I made complaints formalcomplaints, formal complaints
and the therapist and thetherapy that my university
recommended, at first I was alittle apprehensive and I even
told the therapist that a few ofthem called and I was just like
look, let's address thesituation, like you're not even
(14:21):
looking into the situation andyou're just by default,
recommending me to therapy.
Like you know that that did notmake any sense to me.
Um, eventually, I would say,maybe two or three months down
the line, as a formality, I didgo to a couple of sessions, um,
but also noticed that, you know,that was it right for them,
(14:44):
that was the check in the uh,you know, in the box.
That was just like, okay, wedid what we needed to do and
they didn't do anything beyondthat, right, so, not even a
visit to our virtual class toobserve and see what was going
on, um, with what I wasreporting.
Now, that's not to say I justwant to make this clear that's
(15:11):
not to say that, um, thestudents, they're the ones who
basically started the wholething, but they were definitely
involved in the cyber stalkingand harassment right.
They would basically be sharingzoom screens and things like
that of of messages orinformation that they were
downloading or information thatthey were downloading, and this
whole cyber stalking situationkind of magnified and started
basically snowballing duringthat program and there were some
(15:35):
key individuals that actuallycaused it to explode and
snowball.
So, you know, there is someaccountability on their part too
.
So, but that's not to saythey're the ones that started it
.
Just, I just want to make thatclear.
So that was that.
So I just kind of felt, um, tobe honest, I was just, um, I
(15:58):
don't want to say defeated, butI just felt like, you know, they
were not in my corner.
They were not in my corner, the, the professors weren't in my
corner, the Dean, um, you know,you name it, they were not in my
corner.
They were basically looking outfor their best interests and,
um, obviously, they didn't wantto give the program a bad name.
(16:18):
It was a very new program,right, and so, um, in my opinion
, I don't think they wanted tokind of ruffle feathers or, you
know, add any friction, but youknow, the easiest way to do that
was basically to refer me totherapy, um, and that's just.
You know, my, my, myperspective on things.
(16:39):
Now, you know, the policestation of where I previously
lived on the east coast, um, youknow, I've gone to their prison
a couple of times and then, thelast time, I think that I had
reached out where it was more oflike a formal complaint about,
like, what was going on.
You know, the officers didfollow up and said, well, we're
(17:03):
going to send someone you knowto speak with you at your house.
You know they specialize inthis kind of things and I was
thinking, okay, it was going tobe, like, you know, a detective
or whatever they had mentionedit would be.
But then it turns out therewere two officers actually that
came um to my old location and amental health specialist, right
(17:28):
, and so the the officers werejust there for protocol.
Um, they were there.
Basically, obviously they'resending someone to my home.
They don't know me, so that wasjust like protocol.
And then the uh, the wellnessperson.
It was like a wellness checkand, you know, he basically
asked me a few questions and hedid basically a formal
(17:53):
evaluation and observationduring the visit and also a
review of my medical historyfrom basically contacting um the
necessary parties.
And so the the whole mentalhealth crisis that they were
trying to pin on me wasn'tplausible, right, it wasn't, it
(18:15):
didn't exist.
This was basically them tryingto um, find a reason for you
know what I was reporting andnot deal with it.
So they basically uh, the, themental health professional
basically said you're all clear,I don't see any signs of like
mental illness or like anycrisis or anything like that.
(18:36):
And so, um, you know he wenthome, they went their merry way,
and so you know that was that.
And then you know he went home,they went their merry way, and
so you know that was that.
And then you know I didn't hearfrom them from that point.
And then fast forward to where Ilive now.
Um, I've had a few um, I'vecontacted the police a few times
(19:01):
.
The police station referred meto the FBI because they have,
the FBI actually has a specialunit that deals with
cybersecurity.
But what I found is that thatcybersecurity unit, really I
want to say that it pertainsmore to businesses rather than
(19:24):
individuals, and then theinstances where it might deal
with an individual, it's justonly for specific cases, it's
not for like out of the boxcases, or you know, if you have
like an other situation, right,have like an other situation
(19:48):
Right.
And so basically, I was at apoint where this this station
they referred me to the FBI andthe FBI referred me back to the
police station, and so then theycalled me back, we spoke, and
then, you know, they essentiallysaid, well, you know, do you
need to speak to someone?
And so forth, and so on, and Iwas just like, look, I'm fine, I
think you know not to dismisstherapy, but I just feel that
(20:11):
you know this situation needs tobe addressed above anything
else, versus, you know, before Ican actually seek therapy.
And he was just like oh no, no,no, I just want to make sure
that I'm giving you all theoptions and things like that.
So that was that, and then fastforward.
Maybe a month or two later, Iactually went to the actual
(20:31):
station and um filed a formal uhreport and I submitted it.
And then, um, the person Ispoke to at that time said okay,
someone will be calling youeither tomorrow or in early next
week, basically to speak to you.
They specialize in cases likeyours and they can.
(20:52):
Basically, they might have moretools to look into.
Um, what were what I I wasactually facing in terms of the
cyber harassment and thestalking, because, you know, to
be honest, the police stationsaren't really equipped to deal
with cyber um situations.
They just don't have thenecessary tools.
Um, it's and it's sad.
(21:13):
Um, hopefully, um, we get to apoint where you know they, they,
they, they catch up, um, butthat being said, um, I think it
was, I don't know, I I'm notsure, I can't remember if it was
the next day or maybe two dayslater, someone did call me, but
(21:34):
it was a therapist and I wasjust in my mind I was like, okay
, here we go again.
So you know, I didn't say thatto the therapist, but it was
just kind of like, okay, how areyou I'm calling you know, um,
you know, from the policestation is everything okay?
And you know, and I was justlike, yeah, and I was, um,
basically telling her that youknow, I thought someone else was
(21:56):
going to be calling me because,while I think therapy is
important, but we can't skipsteps right, therapy doesn't
replace accountability orlooking into the issue that is
actually happening to me, rightOf what I'm experiencing.
And you know, after speaking toher, she was like, okay, you
(22:19):
know, you sound very lovely andyou know I agree.
You know, um, you, you soundvery lovely and you know I agree
.
And, um, and she also mentionedthat I didn't display any signs
of mental illness.
And this is not to say that, ifyou know, I was mentally ill,
that there would be like there'ssomething wrong with that, with
people that are mentally ill,but you can't just try to pin
(22:40):
that on someone because they'revoicing their concern about
something that they'reexperiencing.
So that's my whole thing, right?
And just going to therapydoesn't mean that something's
wrong with you either.
So you know, I just want tomake that clear.
She did also say that she couldappreciate my perspective and of
(23:02):
wanting to stop the bleeding,because I also gave her that
example of stopping the bleedingfirst before healing.
And, um, she said she would,you know, she would let, uh, you
know the the, the person thatrecommended her, like she would
speak to them.
Now, she was from the actualpolice station.
She was like a therapist thatworks at the police station.
(23:23):
But you know, she said shewould, you know, speak to them.
But you know, I didn't hearback Crickets.
I heard crickets.
So here we are.
So I'm just here to say thatmental health is so important.
It is really important.
Even when you're not in acrisis, mental health support is
(23:43):
important, really important.
Even when you're not in acrisis, mental health support is
important, right?
We have so many things that wego through in life, just like
your basic day-to-day things.
I think mental health supportis a tool, but it doesn't
replace certain things.
It definitely does not equaljustice and it doesn't replace
it right?
So, while mental health care isessential, it cannot replace
(24:06):
accountability or justice.
So just want to say that, um, Ithink therapy, again, is
important.
It helps victims cope.
It doesn't.
It doesn't erase the harm right, or it doesn't hold
perpetrators responsibleresponsible.
It can help you heal from theharm, but it won't erase it.
(24:30):
Now, authorities andinstitutions must not use mental
health referrals as a checkboxsolution to avoid deeper
systemic responsibility.
Deeper systemic responsibility.
(24:51):
This is my hope that they startto take certain things more
seriously, as opposed tobasically using that as a
default.
So here we see that justice andhealing is something that
should work together and it'snot something that should
basically replace each other.
Healing is definitely notpossible in isolation,
(25:13):
especially when harm is ongoing.
Justice, I believe, validatesthe victim's experience.
It essentially interrupts thecycle of abuse and creates a
space for real recovery.
So when victims are still beingharassed for example, cyber
stalking, harassment you knowpeople hacking into your system,
(25:34):
people following you, things ofthat nature Therapy becomes a
survival tool.
Right, it's not.
You're not in your healingprocess yet.
Right, you're still coping with.
You know what you're actuallyexperiencing.
So real healing requires numberone validation.
Right, people have to believeyou.
They have to believe your truth, your reality, um, right, and
(25:56):
we see that was not happening inthe instances that I um,
provided the examples of.
You know, whether it wasuniversity, you know, my
therapist that I was seeingbefore even the authorities,
because you know they weren'tlooking into it, or there was
really no real follow-up.
(26:17):
You know, I also believe that itrequires someone saying what
happened to you was wrong andwe're going to do something
about it.
And you know, I feel like Ikind of heard that before but
it's, it was just kind of lipservice.
It wasn't really that we werereally going to do something
about it.
Because I know, when I went tothe police station, they said
(26:39):
that, well, we will drive around, you know, from time to time
and see if we notice anythingsuspicious, we'll drive around.
I don't know if they have, andif they have, because I know
that I did witness, at least ontwo occasions, what I thought
was probably an undercoverofficer, and then another
instance where it was just a,you know, a regular police um,
(27:03):
car, vehicle, um, but I don'tknow if it was, if it pertained
to my situation or if it wassomeone that was basically um,
as you would say, swatting theminto coming into the uh complex
and basically making a falseclaim or complaint about me
because they sent some maliciousinformation to the, to the
(27:27):
police.
You know, I don't know, so, um,who knows?
So, um.
With that being said, um, Ibelieve that true justice where
you know there, there is whereyou have like an actual
follow-up, um, interrupts thecycle of harm, it tells the
victim that you're not alone andyou're not crazy, right, um and
(27:51):
uh.
You know, um and uh.
You know, when justice isabsent, therapy can can feel
hollow, like you're being askedto make peace with something
that's still hurting you, um.
So I think we need to reallykind of take a step back and
(28:13):
really look and and I'm sayingwe, you know, as a, as a people,
as um, just like our, our, thesystems that we have in place we
need to reevaluate how we dealwith with certain situations Now
.
Now, what's the danger ofdismissal, right, aside from me,
still like, okay, the victimwill still experience whatever
they're experiencing, right, andthen, and it's not just the
(28:35):
experience, it's also the harmthat's being done, right, it's
one thing if you're experiencingthese things, but there are,
there are symptoms, right, um,of how these things are, you
know, harm, uh, victims.
Basically the dangers ofdismissal, aside from like the,
from the obvious harm that itdoes to the victim is that it's
(29:00):
essentially basically referringvictims to therapy without
addressing the abuse is a formof institutional gaslighting,
right, basically, you'regaslighting the victim.
So now, not only do you havethe harassers, the stalkers
gaslighting the victim, now youhave the systems that were
supposed to be in place toprotect the victim is now
(29:23):
actually part of the gaslighting, and so it also now shifts the
burden of resolution onto thevictim, while abusers remain
unchecked, right.
And so basically, it's kind oflike, okay, you go to therapy,
and so that should either makeeverything okay, or now the
victim feels like, well, okay,now I have to try to basically
(29:48):
uh, deal with this situation orfix it on my own, because I
don't have the necessary support.
And then, um, also, um, thisapproach of like, uh, being
dismissive, um, canre-traumatize the survivor,
making them feel unheard andunsafe.
So like, yeah, it's like I'mbeing re-traumatized because now
(30:11):
you're basically um, now you'rebasically um, you're, you're
not, you're not believing me,You're, you're, you're, you're
ignoring my complaints andyou're referring me to therapy
and basically, you're notvalidating my truth.
And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's,it's traumatizing, um, all over
(30:32):
again.
It's just like re-traumatizingthe person.
And so you know, as I saidbefore, you can't heal while
you're still bleeding.
So trying to heal while theabuse continues is like
basically putting a bandage on awound that's still being cut
open.
So I mean that's still beingcut open.
(30:53):
So I mean you know, we need todo better as a society, we need
to do better.
So therapy in this context isabout coping, not closure.
(31:14):
Right?
So in the context where thissituation is ongoing it hasn't
stopped, it hasn't been checkedtherapy would be a coping
mechanism.
In a perfect situation wheremaybe I felt safe to go to
therapy, where I felt like mysessions wouldn't be spied on
and where I had a therapist thatactually validated my
(31:34):
experience, you know, I wouldstill be coping unless we had
authorities step in and hold theperpetrators accountable.
Right?
So there's still not closurethere and real healing begins
when the source of harm isremoved or confronted.
Right?
So if we're looking at thebandage and the wound that's
(31:57):
still being cut open, I mean,how can you heal, even with a
bandaid, if you're still thatwound is still being cut open,
right?
So as long as that wound isstill being cut open, there is
no way that you can heal fromthat, you know.
So that is key, you know.
That is the key image that youneed to keep, um, you know, in
(32:19):
your mind is that?
Imagine someone that is thathas a wound that is being cut
open and they're telling themput this bandaid on, I have a
bandaid for you.
But then, you know, you'reconstantly being stabbed, your
wound is constantly being opened.
How can you heal from that?
And how is that a solution?
(32:40):
Take the knife from the personthat's stabbing me, or the
people that are stabbing mefirst, and then maybe the, the,
the bandaid will help me heal,you know.
So, with that being said, I wantto shift gears and, um, take a
look at the role that spiritual,um, the spirituality, plays in
(33:05):
healing and deliverance, in in,um, you know, in a situation
like this.
And so, um, again, I think youknow there are three aspects to
it there's the spiritual,there's the mental health aspect
, and then there's also, um,again, I think you know there
are three aspects to it there isthe spiritual, there's the
mental health aspect, and thenthere's also the justice aspect,
right, and again, I feel likeall three work hand in hand.
(33:26):
So if we're looking at thespiritual realm, sometimes what
may present itself as a mentalhealth issue could actually be a
spiritual issue.
And you know, I've actuallyseen this in real life, just,
(33:50):
you know, going to churcheswhere they've had like
deliverance sessions wheresomeone was basically tormented
and they thought, you know,their parents thought maybe they
had like some type of mentalhealth situation or they had
like a severe form of depressionor what have you, and they were
actually delivered from thatinstantly through spiritual
(34:13):
deliverance and healing,instantly through spiritual
deliverance and healing.
So sometimes you havesituations where there is like a
mental health presentingsymptom that is actually
spiritual.
That's not to say that.
You know, sometimes you mighthave both right you might have.
(34:36):
There might be aspects ofmental health that needs to be
addressed as well as spiritual.
Again, it's not saying that onereplaces the other, but it's
good to you know anyone that isa good spiritualist or and I
just use that word loosely youknow that could be your pastor,
(34:58):
your priest, you know, orwhomever.
Um, and then you know they workhand in hand, right?
Um, I've read books onexorcisms and the, the the
priest says that a good exorcistalways works with a therapist,
because sometimes you know, whatyou think is a demon is
(35:20):
actually, um, some type ofmental uh situation or sickness
that the person has.
And then sometimes what youthink is a mental uh illness is
actually a demon, illness isactually a demon.
(35:40):
And so they have things thatthey do to basically evaluate
the person, to determine whetheror not you know it's actually a
mental illness or if the personis actually possessed by a
demon.
So you know, here we see thattrauma isn't just psychological,
(36:00):
it's spiritual, and so it'sgood to know what you're dealing
with.
But it's also good to know thatyou can't replace one with the
other.
So this, I believe, shakes oursense of meaning and our
connection to something greater,right, our soul.
So spiritual healing, whetherthrough prayer, meditation or
deliverance, can be deeplytransformative.
(36:22):
But again, it's not areplacement, it's a compliment.
And so you know I alreadymentioned, you know, the case of
, like you know, the exorcist,me going to deliverance services
and seeing people healedinstantly, spiritually right,
people that were thought to havemental health issues.
(36:44):
And so you know, I think that'svery important.
So we need discernment, we needto, we need the collaboration
piece where these different umprofessionals whether it be the
therapist, um, you know, your,your spiritual leader, your,
your, your, your priest, your,your pastor, working together
(37:05):
with the therapist and evenprobably working together with
with the authorities, right Withthe police, with the FBI, um,
to see exactly what's going on,to determine, you know, okay,
the therapist says that thisperson is saying, the priest is
saying, this person is saying,while there might be some a
(37:26):
spiritual component on, you know, in the situation, that does
not dismiss the fact that youknow this person is actually
experiencing what they say, thatthey're experiencing and you
know that, yeah, they're beingcyber stalked, yeah, they're
being harassed.
You know regardless, right?
(37:47):
Imagine, let's just say, let'sjust say that the people that
evaluated me determined that Ihad a mental illness and I was
still going through what I wasgoing through.
I was still being harassed,right, and I was still being
cyber-stalked.
That shouldn't the fact that,even if I was diagnosed with a
(38:07):
mental illness, should notdismiss the fact that I'm being
cyber-stalked or harassed.
Those are two different things,right?
Someone that's mentally ill canstill be cyber stalked and
cyber harassed, so that'sanother thing that we need to
look at.
So we really need to stoppretending that one form of
(38:29):
healing can do it all, or thatit's either or or, that you know
, you know someone that'smentally ill can still be abused
, can still be harassed, canstill be vulnerable, can still
have people, um, you know, umexploit them and and and things
(38:56):
of that nature.
Yeah, I mean, I think that thatthat's a good place to to kind
of um move on.
That's a good segue to to ournext segment.
So so we spoke about threedifferent pillars of healing.
(39:21):
We spoke about mental wellnessand therapy.
We spoke about spirituality andwe spoke about justice, because
justice provides closure rightTo the victim.
They know that they don't haveto look over their shoulder,
because as long as you have tolook over your shoulder because
you think someone's followingyou or you think you're not safe
(39:41):
, that actually hinders yourhealing.
So what does real healing looklike?
The most effective healinghappens when therapy helps you.
You have therapy that will helpyou process the trauma and heal
.
You have the spiritual supportthat helps you reconnect right
(40:05):
by restoring meaning and soulconnection.
And you have justice systemsand authoritative figures and
even communities that help youfeel safe by holding
perpetrators accountable In mycase, my community in general,
not necessarily saying where Imy community, where I live, but
(40:25):
just like my community, whetherit be my virtual community or
whatever, like I don't believe,at least to the best of my
knowledge and what I'vewitnessed so far and what I've
experienced, I don't see anyoneholding the perpetrators
accountable.
I see people partaking in theharassment.
(40:46):
I see people partaking in thesesocial media challenges.
I see people taking in thesubliminal harassment, taking in
the subliminal harassment.
I see people taking part in,you know, following me because
they got a tip that I'm at thisstore or I'm at this location,
so then they come and pretend tobe shopping or they send
(41:09):
someone to buy an item you know,so that, um, it can cause some
sort of trigger and so, you know, a community as a whole, um, I
don't think I've seen orexperienced anyone to say that,
oh, you know what this is wrong.
I'm going to report this onthis individual's behalf because
(41:30):
, you know, no one should besubject to this, where their
information is not not only hasbeen leaked, but is constantly
being leaked.
Right, there's, you know, allthese things that that you know
is going on in my situation,which which I've gone through in
other episodes.
So you know, if you're new tothe podcast, you know, start
(41:54):
with episode one to kind of hearsome of the things that I've
experienced thus far.
I haven't, like, I haven't donea deep dive into, like my
experiences yet and what I'mgoing through, but I have
provided examples of what I'veexperienced, you know, as a
(42:16):
targeted individual and someonethat has been cyber stalked and
harassed and that is still beingcyber stalked and harassed on a
daily basis, morning, noon andnight.
So, with that being said, youknow we see here that
integration is key.
It's neither you know, it's noteither, or it's it's all, it's
(42:39):
all the above, it's, it's it'stherapy, it's spiritual support,
it's you know, it's the justicesystem and or authoritative
figures and communitiesbasically holding perpetrators
accountable.
And so this integrated approachhonors the full humanity of the
(43:01):
victim, right?
So if you're healing from trauma, I think the question that you
should ask yourself is am Igetting support in these three
areas my mental, spiritual andsystemic?
Am I getting support in thesethree areas my mental, spiritual
and systemic?
And if not, maybe it's time todemand more from your community,
from your institutions, fromyourself.
(43:23):
And that's what I'm doing bymerely starting this podcast
docu-series and being vocalabout my experience.
Right, I've done everythingelse.
I've gone to the authoritiesand things like that.
That was a first step, that wasthe traditional route.
Now I am telling my story, I'musing this as my platform to
(43:46):
vocalize what I'm experiencingand even if one person listens,
one person hears my story,that's a start and you know, I
think eventually, you know, theword will get out, what I'm
experiencing will get out and itwill get to the right ears and
to the right people.
Um, that could actually help mein, uh, you know what, in my
(44:12):
current circumstance.
So again, thank you, thank youfor listening.
Um, you know, I, I just, I justwant to say I want to close
with this Um, healing isn'tlinear, it's not tidy, it's
messy and it's definitely notone size fits all, right, so my
(44:34):
experience and what I need formy healing journey may look very
different from someone else,right?
So when we stop looking forshortcuts and start honoring the
full humanity of survivors, Ithink healing becomes possible.
And so that's, you know, that'sthe key here, right?
(44:55):
What makes healing possible isto basically honoring the full
humanity of the survivor andbasically looking at it from a
holistic perspective andintegrating three components,
the three components that Imentioned the mental, the
spiritual and the systemicaspects.
So thank you for being here,thank you for listening.
(45:17):
Um, spread the word.
Um.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it.
Um, start a conversation, andif you have a story or a
reflection, I'd love to hear it.
Um, until next time, staygrounded, stay brave and stay
home.
Stay grounded, stay brave andstay home.
(45:39):
Um, so, again, this is theDire-Rie of a Sane Black Woman
with Marie, your host.
All right, see you next time.
Bye.
Hi everyone, I'm Marie.
Welcome back to the Dire-Rie ofa Sane Black Woman where
privacy becomes fiction andsafety an illusion.
This series stands as bothdocumentation and resistance, a
refusal to be silenced despiteoverwhelming odds.
(00:26):
Today, we will be looking intothe intersections of healing,
justice and truth, becausehealing isn't just a shortcut,
it's a journey, and it startswith truth.
So what are we talking abouthere?
So we're essentially talkingabout the ways mental health
(00:48):
support, spiritual healing andjustice all play a role in the
victim's recovery from trauma.
And so here's the catch, right.
None of them can replace theother.
It's not either, or it's, it'sboth, and in some cases it's all
three, right?
(01:08):
Um?
So we're looking at it from aholistic standpoint.
It's about incorporating allthree, and so, therefore,
therapy isn't a shortcut tojustice.
Essentially, spiritual healingisn't a substitute for
accountability, and justicealone doesn't heal the soul,
(01:29):
because you can't heal whileyou're still bleeding.
That's the reality for victimsof abuse, harassment and trauma,
especially when systems offertherapy as a substitute for
justice.
In my case, that has been myexperience and I've basically
said this to therapists verbatimto authorities look, how can I
(01:53):
heal if I'm still being stabbedconstantly?
I'm still bleeding.
How am I going to heal, right,and so let's get into it.
So in this first segment, I wantto look at mental health and
how mental health is not asubstitute for justice.
So let's start with the mentalhealth piece, right?
(02:14):
So therapy is powerful, right?
I applaud therapy.
I have gone to therapy beforeand you know therapy should
definitely not be stigmatized.
You know, getting mental healthis not, it's not bad, right,
(02:35):
but it's the way that we goabout it.
So therapy basically gives ustools to cope with what we're
going through, right, to processwhat we're going through and to
survive.
But, most importantly, we'regoing through right, to process
what we're going through and tosurvive, but most importantly,
to heal, hopefully, right.
That is the ultimate goal.
But too often, especially incases of abuse or harassment
(02:57):
like cyber stalking, cyberharassment, so forth and so on,
therapy is offered as a way tocheck a box, right?
So authorities, institutionsand even well-meaning people
will say you should talk tosomeone, and then they walk away
, as if that's the end of theirresponsibility or the story,
(03:17):
right?
As if therapy is going to makeall of this go away.
The cyber stalking isautomatically going to stop, the
harassment is going to stop.
It's not.
Here's the truth.
You can't heal while you'restill bleeding, right?
I just said that.
And if the abuse is ongoing,therapy becomes a coping
(03:37):
mechanism, which is good.
I think that we do need to copewith what we're going through.
Right For me, I've used therapy, as well as my spirituality, as
a coping mechanism, but whileI'm going through what I'm going
through, it's not a path to myhealing, it's just a coping
(03:59):
mechanism in this juncture or inthis phase of the process.
Right, I'm not necessarilygetting over anything, right?
I'm just trying to stay afloatat this point.
And so, when systems usetherapy as a way to essentially
avoid accountability, it feelslike emotional gaslighting,
(04:20):
right, like your pain is beingredirected inward instead of
being addressed outward, and soyou know.
I just want to, for a briefmoment, reflect on myself and
the things that I have done,basically to help myself in the
situation that I'm currentlyfaced with.
You may be asking well, marie,have you gone to therapy?
(04:42):
Absolutely, I've gone totherapy.
I've gone to a few therapists.
Am I still in therapy?
No, do I want to go to therapy?
Yes, but here's the thing WhileI have gone to therapy on
numerous occasions and I did Idid hit some, some roadblocks,
(05:04):
and so the first roadblock forme was the privacy piece, right,
so I'm someone that is beingdigitally stalked, right?
Cyber harassed, cyber stalkedeverywhere I go, it doesn't
matter where I go, they're therein some way they're tapping
into that network to basicallystalk me, and so, to no fault of
(05:26):
the therapist, somehow mytherapy sessions slash topics of
discussion were getting leaked,and I've actually experienced
that in my spiritual sessionswith my spiritual leaders,
whether it be pastors or youknow whoever you know I'm
seeking at that point in time.
And so, in my experience, um,at the time when I was going to
(05:50):
therapy a couple of years ago,um, I would go into class.
Um, it's I think it's been ayear plus and it's not two years
yet.
I'm going to class and have thestudents.
The students would basically bemaking subliminal comments or
ask questions hinting tosubjects and topics that I
(06:14):
discussed in my sessions, and soimagine how would that make me
feel.
Or, if you were in my shoes,like, how would you feel about
that?
Right, um, therapy confession.
These are some of the mostsacred um things or spaces that
we're in where someone shouldfeel like they could be
(06:34):
vulnerable, right, completelyvulnerable.
And if there are people spyingon your sessions or leaking info
to third parties, it makes itreally hard to dive deep and
talk about what really has beengoing on, how you're feeling and
essentially tapping into thedeeper feelings or the deeper
(06:56):
experiences that you hadthroughout your lifetime, you
know, and basically uncoveringthose things so that you know
the therapist can help you havea significant breakthrough in
your healing process.
So my first roadblock, as Imentioned, was the privacy issue
(07:17):
.
Right, and again, to no faultof the therapist, it was just
basically the cyber stalkers.
And so, despite that, I wantedto continue.
I wanted to continue on mytherapy journey and so I
continued to go and we trieddifferent things.
You know, we would leave myphone and her phone out of the
(07:41):
session.
Her laptop and everything wouldbe.
You know would go to the frontroom just to kind of, you know,
like an extra step, to try tomake sure that maybe no one is
listening, that they're nottapping into our devices.
You know, regardless of allthose steps, somehow they were
still hacking into our sessionsand these were live sessions,
(08:02):
right, because I was soconscious about what was going
on, I made sure that I went inperson, you know, for my
sessions.
But um, with that being said,you know, the spying and the
stalking continue.
Now this brings me to thesecond roadblock.
(08:22):
My second roadblock was that mytherapist seemed to be
questioning my reality, right?
So maybe I want to say, a fewmonths into it, maybe four or
three months, maybe four, aboutsix months into our sessions,
she actually was questioningwhether, well, you know some of
(08:46):
the things you're saying, I'mnot kind of.
You know, I can't really makesense out of what you're saying.
I can't put the pieces together.
You know, are these thingsreally happening to you?
Am I imagining them all?
You know the spying, thesubliminal and explicit
harassment, you know, just toname a few.
(09:07):
So, essentially, at that point Ididn't feel like I could
continue, right?
So the one thing that you'relooking for from your therapist
is validation.
You're looking for someone thatactually believes what you're
saying.
I'm not saying that a therapistshould condone hallucination or
delusion.
However, you know, in my case Ifeel like I wanted someone
(09:32):
first.
My first step was privacy.
Second step was to find someonethat actually understood where
I was coming from and thatbelieved my truth and my reality
.
So I didn't feel like she couldhelp me heal, because she
didn't understand my experienceand she didn't believe what I
was going through.
So, for me, that was aroadblock and so I could not
(09:55):
continue.
And so, um, and I know, andeveryone else out there,
especially the ones that are inthe groups, in the group chats
or the ones that are sending thesubliminal messages, the ones
that are posting online, becausethis situation has gone viral,
right, you know I'm nothallucinating, you know I'm not
(10:18):
delusional, you know I'm beingstalked.
So, for me, my experience, um, Icould not continue, you know,
to see this therapist because,um, there was a disconnect,
right, and so I obviously I'mnot going to convince her to
believe me, but I also need tobe in a place where my truth is
(10:40):
being accepted and validated.
So, um, with that being said,you know I tried, I already had
some therapy books and, like youknow, that basically gives you,
um, like coping mechanisms andthings of that nature.
And then also, I have, you know, my prayer life and my
spiritual life, which also washelping me, um, cope through,
(11:01):
but you know not to say thatthat's a substitute to therapy.
So I was still, I was stillinterested in therapy, not
necessarily to heal from theprocess because I was still
going through it, but to copewith the process and then to
also address, maybe, like pasttraumas and things like that,
(11:24):
because, um, you know, it's allconnected, I believe.
And so a few months down theline, um, I did find a therapist
, um that actually dealt with um, her specialty, and um, the,
the, the website that I found.
They actually specialize um inum, basically uh, healing or um
(11:49):
doing sessions with the victimsof cyber abuse and harassment,
and so for me that was actuallykey and um, so I had one session
with her.
It was sort of like a testsession, but unfortunately I was
unable to continue due to theprivacy concerns because she was
(12:09):
only virtual right.
So in that instance I wouldonly be able to meet with her
either over the phone or Zoom.
So I had to put that on pausefor the time being.
And so, you know, that was kindof like um, the, the steps that
I personally took, I voluntarilytook to actually seek, um, you
(12:33):
know, help or you know, seek atherapist to kind of help me
cope with what I was goingthrough.
Now, that's not to say that'sthe only time that I've been to
therapy.
I've been to therapy before forother things, but you know, for
this particular situation thesewere the two instances that you
know I actually, you know, wentto therapy and you know I
(12:55):
sought out a therapist.
So now this, you know, as Isaid, this was me seeking mental
health services on my own.
But now, like, let's fastforward to mental health
services or therapists beingrecommended to me by authorities
or you know the powers.
(13:15):
That be right.
So let's start off with myuniversity.
So in the previous session Imentioned how I was in a
master's program, I was gettingmy second master's at a pretty
prestigious university in NewYork and, um, you know I had
raised concerns to theuniversity about what was going
(13:38):
on.
Um, I also raised concerns tothe police at the time where I
lived on the East Coast I'm nowon the West Coast they all
referred me to therapy and whenI brought up my situation, when
(13:59):
I made complaints formalcomplaints, formal complaints
and the therapist and thetherapy that my university
recommended, at first I was alittle apprehensive and I even
told the therapist that a few ofthem called and I was just like
look, let's address thesituation, like you're not even
(14:21):
looking into the situation andyou're just by default,
recommending me to therapy.
Like you know that that did notmake any sense to me.
Um, eventually, I would say,maybe two or three months down
the line, as a formality, I didgo to a couple of sessions, um,
but also noticed that, you know,that was it right for them,
(14:44):
that was the check in the uh,you know, in the box.
That was just like, okay, wedid what we needed to do and
they didn't do anything beyondthat, right, so, not even a
visit to our virtual class toobserve and see what was going
on, um, with what I wasreporting.
Now, that's not to say I justwant to make this clear that's
(15:11):
not to say that, um, thestudents, they're the ones who
basically started the wholething, but they were definitely
involved in the cyber stalkingand harassment right.
They would basically be sharingzoom screens and things like
that of of messages orinformation that they were
downloading or information thatthey were downloading, and this
whole cyber stalking situationkind of magnified and started
basically snowballing duringthat program and there were some
(15:35):
key individuals that actuallycaused it to explode and
snowball.
So, you know, there is someaccountability on their part too
.
So, but that's not to saythey're the ones that started it
.
Just, I just want to make thatclear.
So that was that.
So I just kind of felt, um, tobe honest, I was just, um, I
(15:58):
don't want to say defeated, butI just felt like, you know, they
were not in my corner.
They were not in my corner, the, the professors weren't in my
corner, the Dean, um, you know,you name it, they were not in my
corner.
They were basically looking outfor their best interests and,
um, obviously, they didn't wantto give the program a bad name.
(16:18):
It was a very new program,right, and so, um, in my opinion
, I don't think they wanted tokind of ruffle feathers or, you
know, add any friction, but youknow, the easiest way to do that
was basically to refer me totherapy, um, and that's just.
You know, my, my, myperspective on things.
(16:39):
Now, you know, the policestation of where I previously
lived on the east coast, um, youknow, I've gone to their prison
a couple of times and then, thelast time, I think that I had
reached out where it was more oflike a formal complaint about,
like, what was going on.
You know, the officers didfollow up and said, well, we're
(17:03):
going to send someone you knowto speak with you at your house.
You know they specialize inthis kind of things and I was
thinking, okay, it was going tobe, like, you know, a detective
or whatever they had mentionedit would be.
But then it turns out therewere two officers actually that
came um to my old location and amental health specialist, right
(17:28):
, and so the the officers werejust there for protocol.
Um, they were there.
Basically, obviously they'resending someone to my home.
They don't know me, so that wasjust like protocol.
And then the uh, the wellnessperson.
It was like a wellness checkand, you know, he basically
asked me a few questions and hedid basically a formal
(17:53):
evaluation and observationduring the visit and also a
review of my medical historyfrom basically contacting um the
necessary parties.
And so the the whole mentalhealth crisis that they were
trying to pin on me wasn'tplausible, right, it wasn't, it
(18:15):
didn't exist.
This was basically them tryingto um, find a reason for you
know what I was reporting andnot deal with it.
So they basically uh, the, themental health professional
basically said you're all clear,I don't see any signs of like
mental illness or like anycrisis or anything like that.
(18:36):
And so, um, you know he wenthome, they went their merry way,
and so you know that was that.
And then you know he went home,they went their merry way, and
so you know that was that.
And then you know I didn't hearfrom them from that point.
And then fast forward to where Ilive now.
Um, I've had a few um, I'vecontacted the police a few times
(19:01):
.
The police station referred meto the FBI because they have,
the FBI actually has a specialunit that deals with
cybersecurity.
But what I found is that thatcybersecurity unit, really I
want to say that it pertainsmore to businesses rather than
(19:24):
individuals, and then theinstances where it might deal
with an individual, it's justonly for specific cases, it's
not for like out of the boxcases, or you know, if you have
like an other situation, right,have like an other situation
(19:48):
Right.
And so basically, I was at apoint where this this station
they referred me to the FBI andthe FBI referred me back to the
police station, and so then theycalled me back, we spoke, and
then, you know, they essentiallysaid, well, you know, do you
need to speak to someone?
And so forth, and so on, and Iwas just like, look, I'm fine, I
think you know not to dismisstherapy, but I just feel that
(20:11):
you know this situation needs tobe addressed above anything
else, versus, you know, before Ican actually seek therapy.
And he was just like oh no, no,no, I just want to make sure
that I'm giving you all theoptions and things like that.
So that was that, and then fastforward.
Maybe a month or two later, Iactually went to the actual
(20:31):
station and um filed a formal uhreport and I submitted it.
And then, um, the person Ispoke to at that time said okay,
someone will be calling youeither tomorrow or in early next
week, basically to speak to you.
They specialize in cases likeyours and they can.
(20:52):
Basically, they might have moretools to look into.
Um, what were what I I wasactually facing in terms of the
cyber harassment and thestalking, because, you know, to
be honest, the police stationsaren't really equipped to deal
with cyber um situations.
They just don't have thenecessary tools.
Um, it's and it's sad.
(21:13):
Um, hopefully, um, we get to apoint where you know they, they,
they, they catch up, um, butthat being said, um, I think it
was, I don't know, I I'm notsure, I can't remember if it was
the next day or maybe two dayslater, someone did call me, but
(21:34):
it was a therapist and I wasjust in my mind I was like, okay
, here we go again.
So you know, I didn't say thatto the therapist, but it was
just kind of like, okay, how areyou I'm calling you know, um,
you know, from the policestation is everything okay?
And you know, and I was justlike, yeah, and I was, um,
basically telling her that youknow, I thought someone else was
(21:56):
going to be calling me because,while I think therapy is
important, but we can't skipsteps right, therapy doesn't
replace accountability orlooking into the issue that is
actually happening to me, rightOf what I'm experiencing.
And you know, after speaking toher, she was like, okay, you
(22:19):
know, you sound very lovely andyou know I agree.
You know, um, you, you soundvery lovely and you know I agree
.
And, um, and she also mentionedthat I didn't display any signs
of mental illness.
And this is not to say that, ifyou know, I was mentally ill,
that there would be like there'ssomething wrong with that, with
people that are mentally ill,but you can't just try to pin
(22:40):
that on someone because they'revoicing their concern about
something that they'reexperiencing.
So that's my whole thing, right?
And just going to therapydoesn't mean that something's
wrong with you either.
So you know, I just want tomake that clear.
She did also say that she couldappreciate my perspective and of
(23:02):
wanting to stop the bleeding,because I also gave her that
example of stopping the bleedingfirst before healing.
And, um, she said she would,you know, she would let, uh, you
know the the, the person thatrecommended her, like she would
speak to them.
Now, she was from the actualpolice station.
She was like a therapist thatworks at the police station.
(23:23):
But you know, she said shewould, you know, speak to them.
But you know, I didn't hearback Crickets.
I heard crickets.
So here we are.
So I'm just here to say thatmental health is so important.
It is really important.
Even when you're not in acrisis, mental health support is
(23:43):
important, really important.
Even when you're not in acrisis, mental health support is
important, right?
We have so many things that wego through in life, just like
your basic day-to-day things.
I think mental health supportis a tool, but it doesn't
replace certain things.
It definitely does not equaljustice and it doesn't replace
it right?
So, while mental health care isessential, it cannot replace
(24:06):
accountability or justice.
So just want to say that, um, Ithink therapy, again, is
important.
It helps victims cope.
It doesn't.
It doesn't erase the harm right, or it doesn't hold
perpetrators responsibleresponsible.
It can help you heal from theharm, but it won't erase it.
(24:30):
Now, authorities andinstitutions must not use mental
health referrals as a checkboxsolution to avoid deeper
systemic responsibility.
Deeper systemic responsibility.
(24:51):
This is my hope that they startto take certain things more
seriously, as opposed tobasically using that as a
default.
So here we see that justice andhealing is something that
should work together and it'snot something that should
basically replace each other.
Healing is definitely notpossible in isolation,
(25:13):
especially when harm is ongoing.
Justice, I believe, validatesthe victim's experience.
It essentially interrupts thecycle of abuse and creates a
space for real recovery.
So when victims are still beingharassed for example, cyber
stalking, harassment you knowpeople hacking into your system,
(25:34):
people following you, things ofthat nature Therapy becomes a
survival tool.
Right, it's not.
You're not in your healingprocess yet.
Right, you're still coping with.
You know what you're actuallyexperiencing.
So real healing requires numberone validation.
Right, people have to believeyou.
They have to believe your truth, your reality, um, right, and
(25:56):
we see that was not happening inthe instances that I um,
provided the examples of.
You know, whether it wasuniversity, you know, my
therapist that I was seeingbefore even the authorities,
because you know they weren'tlooking into it, or there was
really no real follow-up.
(26:17):
You know, I also believe that itrequires someone saying what
happened to you was wrong andwe're going to do something
about it.
And you know, I feel like Ikind of heard that before but
it's, it was just kind of lipservice.
It wasn't really that we werereally going to do something
about it.
Because I know, when I went tothe police station, they said
(26:39):
that, well, we will drive around, you know, from time to time
and see if we notice anythingsuspicious, we'll drive around.
I don't know if they have, andif they have, because I know
that I did witness, at least ontwo occasions, what I thought
was probably an undercoverofficer, and then another
instance where it was just a,you know, a regular police um,
(27:03):
car, vehicle, um, but I don'tknow if it was, if it pertained
to my situation or if it wassomeone that was basically um,
as you would say, swatting theminto coming into the uh complex
and basically making a falseclaim or complaint about me
because they sent some maliciousinformation to the, to the
(27:27):
police.
You know, I don't know, so, um,who knows?
So, um.
With that being said, um, Ibelieve that true justice where
you know there, there is whereyou have like an actual
follow-up, um, interrupts thecycle of harm, it tells the
victim that you're not alone andyou're not crazy, right, um and
(27:51):
uh.
You know, um and uh.
You know, when justice isabsent, therapy can can feel
hollow, like you're being askedto make peace with something
that's still hurting you, um.
So I think we need to reallykind of take a step back and
(28:13):
really look and and I'm sayingwe, you know, as a, as a people,
as um, just like our, our, thesystems that we have in place we
need to reevaluate how we dealwith with certain situations Now
.
Now, what's the danger ofdismissal, right, aside from me,
still like, okay, the victimwill still experience whatever
they're experiencing, right, andthen, and it's not just the
(28:35):
experience, it's also the harmthat's being done, right, it's
one thing if you're experiencingthese things, but there are,
there are symptoms, right, um,of how these things are, you
know, harm, uh, victims.
Basically the dangers ofdismissal, aside from like the,
from the obvious harm that itdoes to the victim is that it's
(29:00):
essentially basically referringvictims to therapy without
addressing the abuse is a formof institutional gaslighting,
right, basically, you'regaslighting the victim.
So now, not only do you havethe harassers, the stalkers
gaslighting the victim, now youhave the systems that were
supposed to be in place toprotect the victim is now
(29:23):
actually part of the gaslighting, and so it also now shifts the
burden of resolution onto thevictim, while abusers remain
unchecked, right.
And so basically, it's kind oflike, okay, you go to therapy,
and so that should either makeeverything okay, or now the
victim feels like, well, okay,now I have to try to basically
(29:48):
uh, deal with this situation orfix it on my own, because I
don't have the necessary support.
And then, um, also, um, thisapproach of like, uh, being
dismissive, um, canre-traumatize the survivor,
making them feel unheard andunsafe.
So like, yeah, it's like I'mbeing re-traumatized because now
(30:11):
you're basically um, now you'rebasically um, you're, you're
not, you're not believing me,You're, you're, you're, you're
ignoring my complaints andyou're referring me to therapy
and basically, you're notvalidating my truth.
And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's,it's traumatizing, um, all over
(30:32):
again.
It's just like re-traumatizingthe person.
And so you know, as I saidbefore, you can't heal while
you're still bleeding.
So trying to heal while theabuse continues is like
basically putting a bandage on awound that's still being cut
open.
So I mean that's still beingcut open.
(30:53):
So I mean you know, we need todo better as a society, we need
to do better.
So therapy in this context isabout coping, not closure.
(31:14):
Right?
So in the context where thissituation is ongoing it hasn't
stopped, it hasn't been checkedtherapy would be a coping
mechanism.
In a perfect situation wheremaybe I felt safe to go to
therapy, where I felt like mysessions wouldn't be spied on
and where I had a therapist thatactually validated my
(31:34):
experience, you know, I wouldstill be coping unless we had
authorities step in and hold theperpetrators accountable.
Right?
So there's still not closurethere and real healing begins
when the source of harm isremoved or confronted.
Right?
So if we're looking at thebandage and the wound that's
(31:57):
still being cut open, I mean,how can you heal, even with a
bandaid, if you're still thatwound is still being cut open,
right?
So as long as that wound isstill being cut open, there is
no way that you can heal fromthat, you know.
So that is key, you know.
That is the key image that youneed to keep, um, you know, in
(32:19):
your mind is that?
Imagine someone that is thathas a wound that is being cut
open and they're telling themput this bandaid on, I have a
bandaid for you.
But then, you know, you'reconstantly being stabbed, your
wound is constantly being opened.
How can you heal from that?
And how is that a solution?
(32:40):
Take the knife from the personthat's stabbing me, or the
people that are stabbing mefirst, and then maybe the, the,
the bandaid will help me heal,you know.
So, with that being said, I wantto shift gears and, um, take a
look at the role that spiritual,um, the spirituality, plays in
(33:05):
healing and deliverance, in in,um, you know, in a situation
like this.
And so, um, again, I think youknow there are three aspects to
it there's the spiritual,there's the mental health aspect
, and then there's also, um,again, I think you know there
are three aspects to it there isthe spiritual, there's the
mental health aspect, and thenthere's also the justice aspect,
right, and again, I feel likeall three work hand in hand.
(33:26):
So if we're looking at thespiritual realm, sometimes what
may present itself as a mentalhealth issue could actually be a
spiritual issue.
And you know, I've actuallyseen this in real life, just,
(33:50):
you know, going to churcheswhere they've had like
deliverance sessions wheresomeone was basically tormented
and they thought, you know,their parents thought maybe they
had like some type of mentalhealth situation or they had
like a severe form of depressionor what have you, and they were
actually delivered from thatinstantly through spiritual
(34:13):
deliverance and healing,instantly through spiritual
deliverance and healing.
So sometimes you havesituations where there is like a
mental health presentingsymptom that is actually
spiritual.
That's not to say that.
You know, sometimes you mighthave both right you might have.
(34:36):
There might be aspects ofmental health that needs to be
addressed as well as spiritual.
Again, it's not saying that onereplaces the other, but it's
good to you know anyone that isa good spiritualist or and I
just use that word loosely youknow that could be your pastor,
(34:58):
your priest, you know, orwhomever.
Um, and then you know they workhand in hand, right?
Um, I've read books onexorcisms and the, the the
priest says that a good exorcistalways works with a therapist,
because sometimes you know, whatyou think is a demon is
(35:20):
actually, um, some type ofmental uh situation or sickness
that the person has.
And then sometimes what youthink is a mental uh illness is
actually a demon, illness isactually a demon.
(35:40):
And so they have things thatthey do to basically evaluate
the person, to determine whetheror not you know it's actually a
mental illness or if the personis actually possessed by a
demon.
So you know, here we see thattrauma isn't just psychological,
(36:00):
it's spiritual, and so it'sgood to know what you're dealing
with.
But it's also good to know thatyou can't replace one with the
other.
So this, I believe, shakes oursense of meaning and our
connection to something greater,right, our soul.
So spiritual healing, whetherthrough prayer, meditation or
deliverance, can be deeplytransformative.
(36:22):
But again, it's not areplacement, it's a compliment.
And so you know I alreadymentioned, you know, the case of
, like you know, the exorcist,me going to deliverance services
and seeing people healedinstantly, spiritually right,
people that were thought to havemental health issues.
(36:44):
And so you know, I think that'svery important.
So we need discernment, we needto, we need the collaboration
piece where these different umprofessionals whether it be the
therapist, um, you know, your,your spiritual leader, your,
your, your, your priest, your,your pastor, working together
(37:05):
with the therapist and evenprobably working together with
with the authorities, right Withthe police, with the FBI, um,
to see exactly what's going on,to determine, you know, okay,
the therapist says that thisperson is saying, the priest is
saying, this person is saying,while there might be some a
(37:26):
spiritual component on, you know, in the situation, that does
not dismiss the fact that youknow this person is actually
experiencing what they say, thatthey're experiencing and you
know that, yeah, they're beingcyber stalked, yeah, they're
being harassed.
You know regardless, right?
(37:47):
Imagine, let's just say, let'sjust say that the people that
evaluated me determined that Ihad a mental illness and I was
still going through what I wasgoing through.
I was still being harassed,right, and I was still being
cyber-stalked.
That shouldn't the fact that,even if I was diagnosed with a
(38:07):
mental illness, should notdismiss the fact that I'm being
cyber-stalked or harassed.
Those are two different things,right?
Someone that's mentally ill canstill be cyber stalked and
cyber harassed, so that'sanother thing that we need to
look at.
So we really need to stoppretending that one form of
(38:29):
healing can do it all, or thatit's either or or, that you know
, you know someone that'smentally ill can still be abused
, can still be harassed, canstill be vulnerable, can still
have people, um, you know, umexploit them and and and things
(38:56):
of that nature.
Yeah, I mean, I think that thatthat's a good place to to kind
of um move on.
That's a good segue to to ournext segment.
So so we spoke about threedifferent pillars of healing.
(39:21):
We spoke about mental wellnessand therapy.
We spoke about spirituality andwe spoke about justice, because
justice provides closure rightTo the victim.
They know that they don't haveto look over their shoulder,
because as long as you have tolook over your shoulder because
you think someone's followingyou or you think you're not safe
(39:41):
, that actually hinders yourhealing.
So what does real healing looklike?
The most effective healinghappens when therapy helps you.
You have therapy that will helpyou process the trauma and heal
.
You have the spiritual supportthat helps you reconnect right
(40:05):
by restoring meaning and soulconnection.
And you have justice systemsand authoritative figures and
even communities that help youfeel safe by holding
perpetrators accountable In mycase, my community in general,
not necessarily saying where Imy community, where I live, but
(40:25):
just like my community, whetherit be my virtual community or
whatever, like I don't believe,at least to the best of my
knowledge and what I'vewitnessed so far and what I've
experienced, I don't see anyoneholding the perpetrators
accountable.
I see people partaking in theharassment.
(40:46):
I see people partaking in thesesocial media challenges.
I see people taking in thesubliminal harassment, taking in
the subliminal harassment.
I see people taking part in,you know, following me because
they got a tip that I'm at thisstore or I'm at this location,
so then they come and pretend tobe shopping or they send
(41:09):
someone to buy an item you know,so that, um, it can cause some
sort of trigger and so, you know, a community as a whole, um, I
don't think I've seen orexperienced anyone to say that,
oh, you know what this is wrong.
I'm going to report this onthis individual's behalf because
(41:30):
, you know, no one should besubject to this, where their
information is not not only hasbeen leaked, but is constantly
being leaked.
Right, there's, you know, allthese things that that you know
is going on in my situation,which which I've gone through in
other episodes.
So you know, if you're new tothe podcast, you know, start
(41:54):
with episode one to kind of hearsome of the things that I've
experienced thus far.
I haven't, like, I haven't donea deep dive into, like my
experiences yet and what I'mgoing through, but I have
provided examples of what I'veexperienced, you know, as a
(42:16):
targeted individual and someonethat has been cyber stalked and
harassed and that is still beingcyber stalked and harassed on a
daily basis, morning, noon andnight.
So, with that being said, youknow we see here that
integration is key.
It's neither you know, it's noteither, or it's it's all, it's
(42:39):
all the above, it's, it's it'stherapy, it's spiritual support,
it's you know, it's the justicesystem and or authoritative
figures and communitiesbasically holding perpetrators
accountable.
And so this integrated approachhonors the full humanity of the
(43:01):
victim, right?
So if you're healing from trauma, I think the question that you
should ask yourself is am Igetting support in these three
areas my mental, spiritual andsystemic?
Am I getting support in thesethree areas my mental, spiritual
and systemic?
And if not, maybe it's time todemand more from your community,
from your institutions, fromyourself.
(43:23):
And that's what I'm doing bymerely starting this podcast
docu-series and being vocalabout my experience.
Right, I've done everythingelse.
I've gone to the authoritiesand things like that.
That was a first step, that wasthe traditional route.
Now I am telling my story, I'musing this as my platform to
(43:46):
vocalize what I'm experiencingand even if one person listens,
one person hears my story,that's a start and you know, I
think eventually, you know, theword will get out, what I'm
experiencing will get out and itwill get to the right ears and
to the right people.
Um, that could actually help mein, uh, you know what, in my
(44:12):
current circumstance.
So again, thank you, thank youfor listening.
Um, you know, I, I just, I justwant to say I want to close
with this Um, healing isn'tlinear, it's not tidy, it's
messy and it's definitely notone size fits all, right, so my
(44:34):
experience and what I need formy healing journey may look very
different from someone else,right?
So when we stop looking forshortcuts and start honoring the
full humanity of survivors, Ithink healing becomes possible.
And so that's, you know, that'sthe key here, right?
(44:55):
What makes healing possible isto basically honoring the full
humanity of the survivor andbasically looking at it from a
holistic perspective andintegrating three components,
the three components that Imentioned the mental, the
spiritual and the systemicaspects.
So thank you for being here,thank you for listening.
(45:17):
Um, spread the word.
Um.
If this episode resonated withyou, share it.
Um, start a conversation, andif you have a story or a
reflection, I'd love to hear it.
Um, until next time, staygrounded, stay brave and stay
home.
Stay grounded, stay brave andstay home.
(45:39):
Um, so, again, this is theDire-Rie of a Sane Black Woman
with Marie, your host.
All right, see you next time.
Bye.
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