Navigators in Offroad - Kyle Craft, Trevor Ellingham, Jason Montes, Evan Weller, Emma Cornwell, Josh Felix - The Dirt Life

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Dirt Life Show with your host, George
Hammond.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
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(00:26):
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(00:47):
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Uh.
Thanks to guys over atevolution power sports if, if
you guys didn't see it, uh,today, uh, they just launched a
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(01:10):
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And thank you to guys over atvision, canopy kyle and his crew

(01:31):
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They are always helpingeverybody in off-road, so please
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And thanks to the guys at starstream pro.
All right, let's see here.
So, luke, thanks uh for joining.
Quite refreshing for us co-dogsto get some limelight.
Yeah, not just to get somelimelight, but I think Erica is
going to be a good resource forus today, because I think we're

(01:52):
going to shed some light on tipsand tricks too, for people that
don't race or want to be anavigator too.

Speaker 4 (01:59):
Yeah, and I think this is a good opportunity to
get a couple different angles atit.
I do it different than otherpeople.
Um, I always say, like you know, I have my way, others have
their way, find your way.
So you're going to be able tohear me Kyle craft, T, donk
Trevor Um, we're just gonna.

(02:19):
You know, everyone's going totalk about their style, and so
find what may work for you andmake it your own out there.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah.
So pay attention to all thedifferent guys that are in girls
that we talked to today,because I think that those
people will give you a littlebit of insight into what matches
best with your personality oryour style.
Um, robert Schnell, shell, um,thanks for joining us.
Man, yeah, top nabs, johnnyNelson, oren Anderson, all of
those guys Well, actually wehaven't had Jake Velasco on the
show, I don't think, but allthose guys are great, and

(02:47):
there's many, many more outthere too.
So well, let's do it.
Mike Gardner what's up?
Dude, chris Neuer, let's getKyle Kraft on.
So, kyle's been racing forquite a while now.
He's been a co-dog for a lot offamous drivers, right like he's
been with bj baldwin.

(03:07):
He sits passenger seat with, uh, alan ampudia now, uh, it's
just cool to see man kyle craft.
What's up?

Speaker 1 (03:14):
what's going on guys?

Speaker 2 (03:15):
how are you?

Speaker 1 (03:16):
dude.
Oh uh, a little tired, beenworking a lot of hours.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
But uh, yeah, great happy to be here yeah, thanks
for joining us, dude, and uh,it's been a little while since
we've seen you, but what was thelast race that you were in?

Speaker 1 (03:30):
probably uh the bottom of that.
I uh sat right seat with uhmichael scabuto oh yeah that's
right.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
yeah, so we did see you over there, uh, and you
probably know my co-host today,erica, of course, hi.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
Kyle, how are?

Speaker 4 (03:43):
you.

Speaker 6 (03:46):
Can't complain Awesome.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
All right.
So Dynamic Weapon Solutionssays I'm here for Kyle Kraft
founder of Kraft Cheese.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
Where do we start?

Speaker 2 (03:59):
Well, I think one of the main things that we want to
talk about today and Erica kindof brought it up earlier was
there's a bunch of differentstyles for drivers, right, but
there's also a bunch ofdifferent styles for navigators
too.
A lot of guys like to do it bythe book, where they're just
following notes, making sureeverything's perfect.
They do a lot of paperwork,they do a lot of homework, right
, and then there's a lot of guysthat just shoot from the hip.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
They can see things differently.
And then there's also guys thatare in between.
Right, how does your style go?
Um, well, I started my racingcareer with uh, with james dean,
and of course that uh, theballet performance is very old
school.
Um, so we started off with yourbasic.
You know, super low level, justsome icons and sharp corner.
You know know 90s, 45s.
And then, as I got better, Icame on to BJ Baldwin's team and
BJ has been using Rally Notesfor a while and over the period

(04:55):
of like six, seven years, me andhim developed a really, really
strong language that we bothknew very well, language that we
both knew very well.
And then, as you have kind ofgone through some pretty
top-level drivers, they all arepretty much on the rally note
system at this point, with acouple of variations.
You know a little bit differentcalls, maybe the numbering

(05:17):
doesn't exactly mean the same toeach driver, but overall it's a
rally-style note.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay, that's one of the questions that you were
going to ask, erica, right, likewhat style and what techniques
they use?

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Yeah, yeah, I think the rally style is growing
throughout, but I still thinkpeople are trying to find their
way.
But it also varies with driver,right?
Like you said, you and BJ havecome up with a thing that works,
and I bet it's a little bitdifferent when you go with
Amputia or if you go withScafudo.
You're probably more teachingScafudo how to listen and what

(05:51):
to listen versus workingtogether with the ones with more
experience, right?

Speaker 1 (05:57):
yeah, so, um.
So it just really depends onwhat the driver is hiring me to
do.
Um, scafudo's case is a lot ofdriver lessons and it's a little
bit more of the therapist lane.
I guess I'll say in that seatwhen other dudes are just

(06:17):
straight business, and thenAmpudia, you know, it's all of
the above with him.
Because the highs are very highand the lows are very lows.
But to further on the rallynotes or any sort of notes, none
of that really is theparticular thing.
You need time with your driver.
You need to understand how theyreact and what is your calling

(06:40):
distance and what do they needto know when Everyone's really
different on that and it takestime it takes multiple years, in
my opinion with a driver todevelop a very, very strong
relationship.
Yes, of course, you can come inoff the box and you can do okay
, but that driver doesn't evenstart trusting you and believing

(07:01):
in you for three or four races.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
So if we were relating that in a context
that's outside of the off-roadworld, like I can see it, like
when I was listening to you talkabout like that I can see it
like having a new friend rightAt the new friend, everything's
all like you got a newrelationship, everything's cool.
You don't really know eachother yet, you just vibe off
each other and then all of asudden you see the ups and downs
and then you're like, oh okay,well, a little bit of this has
changed.
Maybe I didn't know that personhad that personality trait.

(07:26):
And then two years down theroad, you can read into each
other's minds like nobody'sbusiness.
You know what?
they're going to say, beforethey even say it.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Exactly, and that's the goal in that car.
You want to be one person andyou know not to discredit the
lower classes, but the higher upyou get, the more consequential
your mistakes become.
You can't have that doing 140.
You can't, I mean you just youcan't do it.
So to get in that top level andthen to be synced up with your

(07:55):
driver, it's many, many yearsand a lot of criticism both ways
.
I mean things get very heatedin that car.
I think I've punched bj a fewtimes.
I've certainly unplugged my micand started, you know I'm not
sure that as well.

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Unplugging.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
Let me know when you want to listen right, right,
okay, dipshit, you got it speedlimiter.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
So what happened to those situations, because I'm
actually interested in this,because I feel like this is uh
not uncommon, so to speak, rightthe it's every race for me yeah
, well, and not just that, butit's every race for a lot of
guys, right, because the, theemotions, the intensity, the
adrenaline, like everythingthat's going on in the car is at
a high level, just like whatyou said, and it's very easy.

(08:38):
I mean, imagine having a simplesquall or a quarrel with your
girlfriend, right, and then allof a sudden you just want to
shut it off and you go for adrive, right, you can't get out.
You got a 500 more miles to go,like you got to do something.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
And that's what starts to separate you and then
elevate you is is yourdetermination to dig deep.
You have the same goal andthat's to cross the finish line
and hopefully cross it first.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
Absolutely and it it doesn't come easy.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
I mean when the driver's upset they can throw
away the car.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
When the navigator misses a call, you can throw
away the car and you both are inthere for the same purpose and
it's a passion and,unfortunately, when you're
passionate about things, youremotions tend to elevate.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
And you just got to dig deep.
But there's no better feelingthan vibing with your driver and
everything clicking along.
That's such a feeling that ifyou're not with a driver and
that's not happening, you're nothaving a good time or you're
just not flowing so well.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
A thousand percent.
I mean my goal is to uh, tocall a note.
It's roughly about three and ahalf seconds before this is
going to happen, depending onspeed and when you can sync note
after note after note and thedriver's you feel like he's
driving off of your exact call.
I mean, that's bliss for usnavigators is making sure we're

(09:59):
lined up.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
Yeah, that's when you know you're doing your job,
your driver's clicking andyou're just going to have a good
day 100 dude, I've never eventhought of it like that and like
that type of flow like it.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
It almost gives me the goosebumps right now just
thinking about it, because it'salmost like it's just natural,
like everything's just moving,like all in one it's a feeling
too.

Speaker 4 (10:19):
You feel it all in your butt, which is kind of
weird.
Right, you have thatrelationship with your driver,
and kyle can probably vouch thatwhen you have that relationship
with your driver, you knoweverything they need.
They don't have to say and youjust figure it out on the fly.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I thought that's a hundred percent and uh, you just
coach them through the highsand you coach them through the
lows and you keep your head downand do your job yeah, west
leffler actually just said thesame thing.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
He said if you're going fast and your driver is
not talking and you are hittingall your marks and you know
you're in the zone and wes knowshe's a very good navigator as
well yeah, it's kind of cool tosee, like, because I don't even
think about that stuff.
Right, like I'm not, I haven'tdone this stuff that you guys
have done, so it's really coolto hear you guys say that when,
when you guys have that happen,does it mean that there's more

(11:07):
of an opportunity or less of anopportunity for stuff to go
wrong?

Speaker 4 (11:10):
kind of just depends if your driver gets, because I
guess are you too comfortable,or no?

Speaker 1 (11:20):
there's really nothing you can do to describe
how that is.
I mean, you're operating at avery high level.
Mistakes happen with theslightest miscalculation, but
it's a very controlledenvironment as well.
I really don't know how toexplain it other than, yes, you

(11:40):
can go both ways very easily,and you've got to be on it.
You've got to have greatpre-run notes and you got to be
on it.
You got to have, you know,great pre-run notes.
Um, you got to know what you'retalking about.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
you got to believe in each other and don't miss yeah,
totally well, can you tell usone time that you guys didn't
miss, like that?
You guys were in sync, maybeyou remember, with one of your
other uh drivers, like that.
You guys were just fully in thezone.
You came across the line first,like one of the times that you
just had your best navigation mythere's, there's quite a few.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I would say that I've had some pretty high days, but
uh, the best because I thoughtit was my worst was winning san
felipe back in March or April.
I guess it was tough.
It really took a lot out of me.
Alan was really driving hard.
The speed we were going was noteasy on your body.
You know.

(12:35):
Having Toby Price 30 secondsbehind you as you were already
going too fast is pretty scary,and just knowing it was time to
turn the brain off and stay onwork I'm not looking at alarms.
I'm not looking at temperaturesand the sun comes up.
We're not talking aboutanything, but what's going to
kill us and uh and gettingthrough that was uh was probably

(12:58):
my best memory yeah, that'skind of crazy.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Have you had races like that too, and I?
In fact I talked to kyle aboutthis too, like before, and he
was telling me he's like, dude,we were going so fast.
He's like I wanted to tell alanjust to stop and pull over.
He's like I was getting so like, it was so crazy so yeah, you
get it.

Speaker 4 (13:14):
I don't obviously go trophy truck speed, I'm more on
a spec truck, so going 140, 150is a huge difference.
Um, but I will say, when you'reon the hunt there's a small
discussion that's like we'regoing and we're going now and
don't look back and it's, youget tunnel vision.
You hope that your guys, youknow your notes are all flowy

(13:37):
and you're ready and that's allyou can do.
But there's a small discussion,usually before you start
pushing that hard either up anumber, down a number, whatever
you know.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
What's that conversation like?
How do you communicate that tothe driver, Carl?

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Well, alan, the team I'm on now is a little different
.
I feel really confident inevery part of this team, as
where before I kind of ran theentire show, so I don't have to
lean on my instincts as much.
I don't have a team that we cancollectively talk about, but
generally you have a plan beforethe race that goes right out
the window as soon as the flagdrops and then, like for me, I

(14:19):
will tell that driver a fewtimes after they've missed
probably two or three calls thataren't threatening to anything.
Hey, how's your pace?
Because I don't want to tell himto slow down.
Then it's in his head and thenthat's when you make more
mistakes.
I want him to think how am Idriving right now?
So that will generally work,but then there's other times.

(14:39):
Like you know, getting thatcall thatby was 30 seconds off
of us, with 60 miles left at sanfelipe let's go it's either
gonna hold together or it's not.
And uh, you just, you cannotmiss, you cannot make a mistake.
You have tunnel vision.
I didn't look up, I didn't evenknow where we were at the last
60 miles.
It was right there.

(15:00):
I'm not missing that's sognarly.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, yeah, I've, and correct me if I'm wrong.
But one thing that I've noticedis if a driver's kind of a
little out of control, insteadof being like you're driving
like an idiot, you need to slowdown.
I like to maybe just drop itdown a number for a couple
corners, Then they feel the reelin and they're a little more
planted, and then off we go youcannot.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
then they feel the real in and they're a little
more planted, and then off we gowithout.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
You cannot be letting out these secrets, Erica, I
know, but I do teach people thisstuff, but it's just, you know,
it's just a way to get undercontrol again without being like
you're an idiot.
You need to slow down Now.
They're frustrated.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
That's very true.
I will typically do that like ifwe've got a right one caution,
times 100, overrides orsomething that I've seen him
miss a couple times, or he's alittle off on.
That's when I start to adjustnumbers going forward.
If they keep missing the samecall, then I realize, a, either

(16:03):
we didn't pre-run hard enough tounderstand this or, b, they're
just not getting it.
So that's when I typically willdo that.
But as far as telling him toslow down, no, I won't do that.
I'll make him either thinkabout it or, after you've done
something very stupid multipletimes and I'm very angry, you're
going to get, you know, one ofthese to the chest.
And hey, get this thingtogether, dude, or I'll just go

(16:26):
fucking home.
I don't know the language, Idon't need it right.
We're here to win.
We're here.
We put in all this effort, getit together.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
But that's the way to do it right.
You've got to haveaccountability.
Everybody has accountabilitythe guy's in the truck, the
period.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
That's it.
That's the mentality I takeinto it.
This isn't a free ride.
This isn't just something Ilove.
I need to win and I want mydriver to have that same passion
as I do yeah, that's prettycrazy, man, just to think about
it and like.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
All of this leads up to crossing the finish line
right.
And when you cross the finishline, it doesn't matter what
happened for the last 12 hours,8 hours, 24 hours, whatever it
is, it matters what justhappened at the finish line
right.
And usually if you executeeverything well, then obviously
you come home with a good finish, like to me, that seems like
it's just as important to you asit is for the entire team it

(17:14):
has to be.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
You can't just go out there and want to do this for
social media or you know.
Whatever kind of clout you'retrying to chase, or this is just
something fun.
You got to it and that's theonly way to approach this and
come out safely and cross thefinish line.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
So we had a couple of questions that were going to be
general for most everybody thatwe're going to ask, and what
are two of the most importantthings as a navigator that you
can recommend and I mostly meanthis for people that look up to
you or want to be a professionalnavigator at some point in
their life?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
um two of the most important things, or two tips
for them um, yeah, you can doeither one.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I would say one of the most, one of the most
important things that you haveto rely on yourself in your
brain for every race, and thenone of the most best tips that
you can give to all the new guysso I would say number one has
to be criticism.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
You have to be able to critique yourself and um, you
know it's sometimes you can fixthese things yourself and if
you're having a bad day oryou're missing, being able to
adjust that in your own headwithout making a big deal about
it, that's's probably number one.
As far as tips go time, youneed time, don't think it's

(18:29):
going to come in one race.
Don't think it's going to comein one year.
It's time, and that will helpyou elevate to the next level
and soon enough you and yourdriver will be synced up and
it's easy from there.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
So Drew Beckera I don't know how to pronounce it
Beckera.
So Drew Becerra, I don't knowhow to pronounce it Becerra.
Yeah, he said any advice on howto become a navigator.
Well, kyle just said it and Ihad some suggestions too,
because I've had people ask methis question before and I don't
know any of the technicalskills to be a navigator.
I'm not a navigator, but I knowthat if I was going to try, I
would take some of the classesthat Erica offers.
Ask Kyle, ask the people at theraces, go to the questions.

(19:06):
Yeah, just ask questions.
But you can also do simplethings like, instead of being
the driver out of the dunes, sitin the passenger seat, get a
little ipad out, put thenavigation uh controls on it and
look at it, engage it and youknow, zoom in, zoom out, mark
your spots, do all these littlethings that can make you a
better navigator.
Could you guys expand on that?

Speaker 4 (19:20):
yeah, for sure one one thousand percent.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
I mean, um, james dean brought me on when I knew
absolutely nothing and it was assimple as he needed help out of
shop.
Come help prep the car and thenI got the spot.
Um other ways I I recommend forpeople is go buy a race suit,
go buy all your gear and have itget on a race team and have it
be there every race withyourself.
You never know what's going tohappen.

(19:45):
One day you might get thrown inthat seat.
And maybe that driver ends upliking you or sees potential.
There's a bunch of ways, butget on a team and be able to
help.
That's your first step period.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Do you have any more questionsfor Kyle?
Kyle, I'd like to see if wecould maybe spend a little bit
more time with you.
I know we're doing a bunch ofdifferent guys tonight, but
maybe we could spend a littlebit more time with you and you
could give us more experienceand give us like.
I don't know story time withKyle.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
You know what I mean Perfect, I'm in.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
So do you have any more questions before America?
No, go for it.
All right, we're going to getTrevor Ellingham on here in just
a sec.
Kyle, thank you very much fortaking the time out of your day.
I know you're a busy guy.
You spread a lot of love.
Man, we'll see you at the races, thank you guys.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Thank you, Kyle Bye.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Todd LeDuc just joined us.
All right, let's get TrevorEllingham on here.
Trevor.
Trevor.
All right, it's really cool tosee the other side of it.
You know what I mean.
I know what it feels like to bea racer and I know what it

(20:54):
feels like for.
Is it asking him there?
We go and I know what it feelslike to hold the steering wheel,
but I never had enough patienceto be a navigator, so listening
to what you guys talk aboutit's such a special skill.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Yeah, it's a lot of trust.
It's a lot of trust but, asKyle just hit, it's also a lot
of you know relationship meaning.
It's a pretty intimaterelationship.
You're trusting each other.
All you have is each other.
All you have is each other.
You have to learn everythingabout each other.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
You can't hide from anything 100, you're just kind
of there well, speaking of trust, there's a lot of people that
trust our next guest.
I know I do.
I'd like to have him in thepassenger seat with me.
Trevor ellingham.
What's up, man?
How are you good?
How are you guys doing?
Awesome, man.
Thank you very much.
Thanks for joining us.
Where are you at?

Speaker 7 (21:46):
uh, I'm sitting on one of my bills on my shop right
now oh right, on what kind ofbetter backdrop than, uh, just a
messy shop what kind of buildis it?
Well, it's a luxury prerunner.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Oh, right on man, have you had to navigate in a
luxury prerunner before?
I have, I have how is that airconditioning?

Speaker 4 (22:03):
it's so nice you're not even dirty, unless you hit a
silt section and there's acrack in the cab oh you're kind
of destroyed because it doesn'tleave either wes leffler says
t-donk for president.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Jason montez says it looks like you have an android
trevor brand new iphone.
I don't know what's up shittyconnection in that's all right,
man, hey.
So, um, give us a little bit ofa background.
How long have you been doingnavigation?

Speaker 7 (22:30):
I started about 12 years ago I started riding with
Travis Bozzano he's the firstone that really gave me a shot
and racing in his 7200 truck andthen into the 6200.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Did you like the seven trucks?

Speaker 7 (22:44):
Yeah, it was funny that thing ripped.
It was a nascar v6, you know itwas.
It was fast for for the, forthe class, and it was a good way
to get in and not uh.
The suspension worked reallywell.
It's pretty much unlimited.
I think it was uh rules on thewidth of the truck, but overall
it was almost like a spec truckwith a v6 yeah, that's super
cool, man.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
And when, uh, when you got into that truck, did you
know that you were going topursue, um, I don't want to say
a career, but pursue being anavigator and going to the races
and keeping in the off-roadworld.

Speaker 7 (23:13):
I mean I was.
I was hoping so.
I've been around off-road mywhole life.
I went to uh the main 405 daysafter I was born watch my dad
race.
So it's about as in my blood asthey can get and being how uh
my bank account is set up, itdoesn't lend me to be in the
other seat so well, so this isthe best way to do it.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
That's good man, but you've gotten to be able to ride
with some pretty awesome people.
So a couple of guys that you'veridden with that I know
obviously the Terrible Herbsteam.
You've ridden with householders, a bunch of different people,
the way that Erica and Kyle weretalking.
You really have to have a goodrelationship with the people
that you're working with.

Speaker 7 (23:55):
Oh for sure, that's everything.
I've had a couple of rideswhere it was a little rough.
No trust there.
Our job is not only to try togo as fast as we can, but try
and keep us both safe.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
And the driver's just flat out not listening and it
doesn't work out so well.
Yeah, the trust comes from bothsides.
You have to trust your driveras well to do a good job, right.

Speaker 7 (24:17):
Yeah, I mean we're over there.
There's not a whole lot besidestrying to point them the right
direction, we have control.
So in other aspects of my lifelike I don't like roller
coasters because I don't havecontrol of the speed, but for
some reason racing trophy trucksis okay- he's got that five
point.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, but you've also got somebody with a heavy right
foot.
When you guys are talking aboutthis stuff, it makes me look
back through my head about somepeople that I've talked to.
You know, friends of the show.
I've talked to us and said youknow how do I get involved in
off-road?
And then you say work on a team, get in a co-driver seat, then
you become a driver and you can,you know, find resources to do

(24:56):
it, and I've seen a bunch ofpeople try to make those those
leaps and bounds right.
I've seen people get in thenavigator's seat and there's a
lot of guys that only last onerace or one segment of a race,
right, but they don't actuallygo any further than that.
But I don't necessarily alwaysthink it's because of the
navigator, I think it's becauseof the whole picture, right,

(25:17):
because the people that are,let's just say, as a UTV team,
as an example, they don't knowwhat they're looking for.
They just see that they didn'twin a race.
They could put it on thenavigator, they could write them
, like.
There's all kinds of differentthings and it's pretty heavy to
take on all thoseresponsibilities and duties.
Have you seen that?

Speaker 7 (25:36):
oh for sure.
Just like kyle was saying, ohit's uh, the relationship is
everything.
And you know, I've there's beentimes where I've ridden with
someone and they're great people, but it's just not another race
I want to do with them.
But then on the other hand,it's been the same thing, like,
oh man, I hope this reallyworked out well and for whatever
reason we didn't drive, so itgoes both ways.

(25:59):
But with starting out, it'slike Kyle was saying too, having
your race suit, havingeverything like being there.
You know, I was working atcollins motorsports when I got
the job.
Or then I got to ride with uh,with travis and being at the
races and helping out and doingeverything possible, and just,
you know, he saw the dedicationand he saw, you know, I had all

(26:19):
my own stuff, so I was kind ofthe right fit at that time.
Then we got to be really goodfriends and thankfully that
worked out until he stoppedracing for a while.
And it's kind of the same withevery team I'm with now.
It's almost a family bond andit's really cool to see.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
It's kind of crazy to think about that, though,
because it's not easy to get inthe right seat.

Speaker 4 (26:43):
It's not easy to get in the right seat.
It's not easy to get in theright seat, but I also think
because they think it's an easyjob.

Speaker 7 (26:52):
They think you're sitting there calling rights and
lefts and it's going to be somuch fun being in the race, but
all the all behind the sceneswork is is what really makes the
difference yeah when.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
when it comes down to like being ready and being
prepared, it's not aboutbringing your snacks in your
jacket and hope you don't break.
It's about you know are yougoing to be able to talk your
driver off the ledge so that youdon't crash?
It's about you know, knowingwhat the truck is capable and
pushing your driver to thatlimit.
It's about you know knowing allyour temperatures and being

(27:26):
able to read them as you'recalling notes.
And you're not just sittingthere and you're not just you
know a puppet anymore.
It's a full-time job.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
I always tell everybody oh definitely.
Sorry, go ahead Trevor, please.

Speaker 7 (27:42):
Like you know, just having the familiarity with the
truck, knowing how to work oneverything there's so many, so
many aspects to it that it it'sso, even if you're the best in
every game world but you don'tknow how to do anything
mechanical, you're not going tobe as useful.
As you know, because a lot ofthe drivers not all, but I'm
thankful to have, uh, somereally good ones now but for
some that show up, I mean, theydon't know anything about the

(28:03):
truck except barely how to turnit on and go from there where,
like, uh, like adam householder,for instance, like he checks
his motec data, he builds, heredoes his own shocks, he, you
know, he tunes his own shocks,he does everything, he knows
every inch of the truck, andwhich just makes my job even
easier, and during the race,because I don't have to, you
know, make sure that I'm theonly one knowing what needs to

(28:24):
be done to the truck or not.

Speaker 4 (28:26):
Yeah, and I do think mechanical is a huge part of it.
Um, when stuff breaks, you kindof do you ever switch off?
Cause that's something thatSarah and I learned early on If
you get frustrated, like, putthe next teammate in, let me in
there, because now you'refrustrated, you're making
mistakes, you're kind offumbling a little bit, so we
would always switch off.

(28:47):
Is that something that you'veever done?

Speaker 7 (28:50):
uh, as far as like, if uh like working on stuff or
yeah we're just after that.
Yeah, like, if that, like uhparker, this year we had a?
Uh, an oil pump belt fail andluckily it was a really quick
change.
Uh, he caught it instantlywatching the, you know, out of
peripheral he saw the.
The alarm flash we caught itinstantly didn't hurt the motor.
Um, I think it was like acamera fast.

(29:14):
It was pretty quick change.
But adam's under there withtools, I'm grabbing tools, I'm
on top, you know, workingtogether on stuff like that to
be able to do it and it makes ita lot easier.
Um, I've been fortunate enoughto have too many uh big
instances with uh needing towork on stuff that where we
would have to.
But you have to kind of takeyour time.
When you'd like.
A couple years ago, thor and Igot stuck on the silt in a

(29:35):
thousand and it was an hour longdeal and uh, I tell him you sit
there, you stay safe in thetruck, let me be worn out.
Um, there's no reason for bothof us to be worn out.
You're the one that has todrive.
I'll recoup when we get goingagain.
Um, but it just depends on thedriver and what they know about
the trucks and how much we canreally switch off between

(29:56):
working on them well, and so youguys both say that.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
This is one of the things that I told you, I wanted
to talk about before trevor washow to make sure that you are
at a hundred percent or thatyou're you don't get your body
to a certain level where you're,you're not capable of
performing your duties.
How do you guys control that?
Cause you don't just have to doit for yourself in the car, you
have to do it for the driver,like you have to be in sync, you
have to know when they needfood, you have to remind them to

(30:20):
drink, you have to remind themto stay focused.
Like there's all kinds ofdifferent things that happen,
and a lot of it is like what yousaid preparation, your homework
leading up to the race.
Like you drink enough water,you get enough electrolytes, all
this other shit.
Like how do you guys manage allthat?

Speaker 7 (30:37):
a lot of.
It just takes time to figureout exactly, and especially like
in the vehicle, what works foryou, what works for erica might
not work for me as far as whatsnacks you can eat or or stuff
like that.
Like for me and I know a lot ofpeople crustables like
uncrustables at the pit stop,it's instant game changer for my
mind, keeps me going,especially on the longer races
where we have multiple stops andputting the miles in, just uh,

(31:00):
the sugars right away, likeacting the brain, and then the
proteins from the peanut butter.
Like it's just Trying differentthings.
Like all usually before races.
I'm not risking so much at arace.
I'll try.
I'll try doing different things, like while I'm on the road
bike.
You know I live in Vegas, soright now I think it was only
108 today, but we've had alittle bit warmer weather before

(31:22):
this.
But being able to be on theroad bike, you know you're
already gassed your heart ratesthrough the roof and if you can
keep something down then mostlikely you can keep it down in
the truck.
I have to wear a patch now.
The drama me, didn't quite cutit for me, but it's just like
everything.
It takes trying differentthings, to figure out exactly

(31:42):
what works to keep you going.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Do you know what your driver usually needs to, so you
and you can kind of tell whenthey're I don't want to say
dozing off, but like whenthey're losing focus yeah, you
can.

Speaker 7 (31:54):
You can feel it for sure.
Uh, you sense the pace change alittle.
Um, adam doesn't like to eat somuch.
He always wonders like when Ipull into a pit, I'll drink half
a bottle of water and I throwthe crucible in my mouth, squish
it out to my cheeks so I don'tbite my cheeks and I can get out
in time.
With a 30 to 40 second pit stop, I can talk when I need to.
Again he's like how the hell doyou eat these things without

(32:17):
eating your cheeks?
I know that getting that inmakes a big difference.
Any speed zones, I'll try togive them gel blocks or just
little things, just to keep itgoing constantly.
Once you crash it's so hard toget back to that point.

Speaker 4 (32:32):
I usually like, I'm very particular.
I like Uncrustables ripped inhalf, because they usually hand
them to you in a wrapper andyou're like I have gloves on.

Speaker 7 (32:43):
I'm always like I don't care how dirty your hands
are.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Rip it in half and I'll shove that in my mouth and
move on.

Speaker 7 (32:50):
No, exactly, yeah, and I obviously I got I must
have a bigger mouth.
But I shove the whole thing inand just deal with it and get it
out of the way.

Speaker 4 (32:59):
Yeah, or I've been known to ask for a Dr Pepper
with a straw, please.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Oh, dude, that's dialed though, because then you
can fit it under your helmet.
Are you the one that separatesthe skills?
You only like the green ones orthe red?

Speaker 4 (33:11):
ones or whatever Somebody just brought up
sourness.

Speaker 7 (33:13):
Some of the longer races where I know we'll have a
speed zone, I'll take the samething.
I'll try to take a soda For meit's Mountain Dew, something
under the bottle I can keep inthe truck until the next speed
zone.
That way I can get it down andjust help you with the sugar
levels and everything and, uh,obviously, all the even sitting

(33:36):
there we're still sweating andusing so much energy just
fighting because we're trying tobe relaxed.
But you're still.
You know we don't know exactlywhen the brakes are going to hit
.
We know a good idea and the gas.
You just have to be relaxed andgo with it.
But it's still.
It's.
It's draining in the passengerseat.
Um, I've been in both,thankfully, and the.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
It's different kinds of physical yeah, I was going to
say a lot of people don'tunderstand how much more uh
leverage you have when you'rejust barely even if you're
holding onto the steering wheelloosely, like you're supporting
yourself so much more than youare when you're just sitting
there.

Speaker 7 (34:05):
Oh, for sure.
Well, just like you know, notmany kids not to do it nowadays.
But driving a five speed or sixfeet on the street, you can be
driving really smooth, but youstill see your passenger moving
a little bit, just becausethey're not knowing the exact
second you're going to lift,push the clutch or hit the brake
or whatever so saying you know,we just have to be over there.
If you fight it, you're justgonna wear yourself out more and
we just have to be over there.
If you fight it, you're justgoing to wear yourself out more
and you just got to be asrelaxed.

(34:25):
But it's still draining.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
How can you tell if the driver's getting fatigued,
like when he's behind the wheel?

Speaker 4 (34:31):
You can hear it in the throttle usually.
Give me an example, go ahead,trevor.
This is your segment.
I'm on here, all day.

Speaker 7 (34:44):
Yeah, the pace change is usually like, oh, they
weren't quite aggressive on thisor that, and you know, there's
always, you know, maybe justtaking a breather, so see how
long that lasts.
Then I'll ask hey, you doingall right, you know, what do we
got to do?
Or is there anything we have todo with that?
I'm lucky with Adam.
I don't never have to.

(35:05):
Uh, I'm never like, hey, youneed to slow down, like his pace
, everything if he's doingsomething is for a reason.
And uh, we've man, like wedrive really well, um, it's been
, it's really refreshing to todo that.
And know someone with that muchexperience like there's a reason
he's slowing down to see thissection, like he might he might
feel something in the truck thatI didn't feel, that he's trying

(35:28):
to be cautious over, and viceversa, if I feel something, I
usually let him know.
But pace wise.
Um, unless it's a younger ride,like with thor, every once in a
great while he might be alittle rambunctious.
Just, uh, being a younger gohanguy and I'll be, hey, like,
let's, uh, let's back it downjust a little bit here.
And uh, you know, wait till weget to a section where we can

(35:50):
especially like the longer raceslike the thousand or something
like that, where the pace justthese trucks just won't last at
an all-out pace for that long.
Um, just back it down a littlebit.
Let's try to save the tires sowe have as fresh a tire as
possible for the silt section.
Or hey, you know, we got theseguys got a thousand miles.
After this we need to make surewe have all the lights on the
trucks instead of just bashingthrough all the trees.

(36:11):
We there's just a lot ofdifferent things like that, uh,
to try to reign them in a little.
But at the same time and Ithink we have a good
understanding that where theyknow not to take it a negative
way, it's positive criticism andthen, whenever they're doing
anything right, constant youknow constant appraise whenever
possible, like oh, that was sick, or just constant little things

(36:33):
.
And you know not that we needto hype each other up usually,
but who doesn't like a littlebit of positive reinforcement,
you know, especially on longdays?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, totally Well, even if you're not a racer and
you're listening to the show,like we all have that time.
We're at the dunes and we werejust like sitting in the
passenger seat with our friendand they just hit this corner
and you're like damn, how didyou do that, dude?
That was so sick, like I wassick.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
Could we do it?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
again, like because you just feel that same thing
and I can see like what kylesaid and what you guys are
saying, like if you can get on alevel where you're knocking
that out like in a flow andyou're going through whatever
the trees, you're going throughwhoops, whatever it is, and you
just got this rhythm, likethat's got to feel so good flow
is a huge factor to knowing yourdriver's comfortable and
listening and that you've doneyour homework, um.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
but the biggest thing I think as a navigator is yeah,
we're, we're kind of watchingwhere we're going a little bit.
We know where we are based onthe GPS for the most part, but
you feel and I've said it alittle bit with Kyle on you feel
everything in your butt.
It's such a weird thing, butthere's times where you come
around a corner and I'm like,wow, you really, you know you

(37:41):
railed that a little bit better.
Or, hey, you double pedaledover that and you kept it, you
know, sucked down a little scrub, um.
and you feel everything, and sousually there's a little comment
about like hey, nice doublepedal and they're like you felt
that.

Speaker 7 (37:55):
You're like heck, yeah, I feel everything yes,
yeah, by being able to feel that, like being fortunate to ride
with who I've ridden with overthe years, I've learned so much
like I would never claim to beany kind of driver at all like I
.
I'm too afraid of you know whata tire if I thought someone's
tired, like replacing that.
You know just the money aspectof it, but overall the uh just

(38:20):
picking up with different stylesof drivers and then this guy's
really fast, that guy's reallyfast, but they do different.
They have a different styles ofdrivers and then this guy's
really fast with, that guy'sreally fast, but they do
different.
They have a different way ofbeing fast and trying to pick
all that stuff up and and passalong to some of the newer guys
that you end up, you know,riding with uh in different ways
.
So, yeah, the, the feel of yourbutt it's.
It's pretty crazy how much wefeel with those trucks.
There's so much going onconstantly.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah there really is.
Alright, we're going to getJason Montez on here, trevor,
but I did want you to ask Ericaone question and I'd like her to
reply we have this new audiodevice.
I want her to reply, and thenwe're going to see what happens.

Speaker 7 (38:57):
So go ahead and ask her any question that you want
buddy on average, how manypeople do I send to your
navigation school all the year?
probably a good five to tenperfect dude these voices are so
, and I always appreciate ityeah, I went to her school when

(39:20):
I was in between rides just tomake sure I was staying fresh on
the g GPS and seeing what elseI can learn.
There's always more at the 500,a couple you know.
A couple of months ago sheshowed me a couple more things
that I I wish I would have knowna lot long time ago.
But it's rad having a goodcommunity and then having
someone that knows the GPS sowell.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, actually this is a good time.
Why don't you do a little plugfor Waypoint Nav so that you can
tell people how to go on thereand learn a little bit about
navigation and the stuff thatwe're talking about right now?

Speaker 4 (39:49):
Yeah, so I have a navigation school, mostly
Lowrance-based.
I'm working on a Garmin one,but I break down the GPS and try
to make it easy to use, alittle bit memorable.
I make fun of myself becauseI've made so many mistakes and
that's kind of how people learn.
So I'm there to kind of helpyou learn what not to do, how to

(40:12):
get to this part, maybe acouple of shortcuts, like I just
taught Trevor, and then Iusually try to make myself
available for people that havequestions after they've taken it
.
I also have a level two, that'smore notes, writing and editing
and all those things.
So feel free to reach out ifyou guys have any questions uh,

(40:33):
waypoint nav off road.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
There you go, waypoint nav w-a-y-p-o-i-n-t and
then n-a-v-e, off road allright, n-a-v-e.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
What did I say?
N-a-v-e, oh n-a-v-road, allright, nav, nav.
What did I say?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
nav, oh nav all right , we'll see you later, trevor.
Thanks for joining us, dudethanks.
Thank you for sure, all right,we're gonna get jason montez on
here real quick, another guythat rides with the herps boys.
Uh, jason's been uh a co-driverfor a while and you know what's
cool, like one of the thingsthat I think we'll talk to jason
a little bit about is, uh,we'll ask him a little bit about

(41:06):
the different vehicles andstuff.
So, uh, jason montez, you'veridden in trophy trucks, utvs
trucks, buggies, all that stuff.
What's going on, dude?
How you been, what's up guys?

Speaker 8 (41:17):
how's it going, trevor?

Speaker 4 (41:18):
what's up georgie hi erica hi, how are you guys,
trevor?

Speaker 2 (41:23):
all you gotta do is just put your finger over it and
then the X comes up.
There you go.

Speaker 4 (41:27):
So it's fun to see these guys' face on here,
because I'm new to the Herpsteam as of the 500.
Yep, I've known a lot of theseguys before I jumped on there,
but it's fun to work with themup close and personal, see them
every day.
We kind of compare lines andnotes and work with each other.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Actually, that's a good thing to ask, jason.
So, like, when you have a bigteam right and you have, let's
just say, three or fourco-drivers that are going to be
around you all weekend, do youguys like work together on stuff
, or does everybody kind of stayin their own corner?

Speaker 8 (42:02):
Yeah, we do Like throughout the day when we're
pre-running stuff, especially inBaja, everyone kind of does
their own thing.
But then when we kind of gatherup together for dinner back at
camp or whatever we do, we tryto share notes and shortcuts and
things that we know or thatwe've learned throughout the day
to kind of help everybody else.

(42:22):
Because you know, like at theend of the day we all have the
same goal.
We all want to be safe and weall want to get to the finish
line and have an advantage.
And if there's an advantagethat one of us knows, we uh we
all kind of chime in to share.
You know different littlethings that we can that can help
us out because teamwork makesit work.
Yeah, so we're all a team andwe're all together at camp and

(42:45):
stuff like that, but as soon aswe start racing, we're all on
our own, each person and eachdriver in their truck.
You're out on a journey byyourself, so you're not really
like besides some of the uh,some of the the chatter you get
on the msat, everyone's kind ofon their own, doing their own
thing, and they each have theirappropriated chase trucks and,

(43:06):
and you know, maybe you have theheli fall on you or something,
but, um, for safety, but yeah,everyone's kind of out on their
own.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
So we try to do, uh, all the homework and share the
knowledge, um, beforehand sowhen you've been uh, you know
doing this for a long time, whenyou have a team environment
compared to a single racer oreffort like, how does it differ?

Speaker 4 (43:28):
So this was actually the first time that I've been
with a team where there's whereit's kind of the same team.
I've been on teams wherethere's a bunch of different
trucks but we're not really onthe same team.
So the difference is like youkind of get to validate that you
know what I'm doing is right,or maybe I want to check this

(43:48):
section a little bit more, oryou know and learn from
everything.
Like I practiced my tirechanges, I tried different
things but everyone was there tokind of show me how they do it
and I definitely took thingsaway from it yeah, that probably
makes you learn a lot rightbecause it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Because it's real life experience, like right in
the palm of your hands.
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
And Jason, you have had the samething too.
Where you go.
Well, I'll give a little bit ofbackground for anybody that
hasn't seen you on the show orknows you in person.
Obviously, you work with theTerrible Herbs Motorsports crew.
You do a lot of building stuffin the shop.
You also are at the races,sitting in the passenger seat of

(44:28):
well any numerous trucks,usually the 19 truck, and then
you also help out Joe Tirana ina UTV.
So you have a lot of differentsprinkle yourself out there
because you want to be at theraces, right, but there's a lot
of different things that happen.
Each individual, one of thosepieces takes a different skill
set.
Can you explain a little bit ofthat?
How about this?
A simple question thedifference between co-dogging in

(44:53):
the 19 trophy truck and thedifference of co-dogging in a
Can-Am UTV.
It's a loaded question.

Speaker 8 (45:00):
It's all relative really.
It's, yeah, it's, it's.
It's all relative really,because, uh, it's funny, uh,
jeremy Kager just chimed in and,uh, he had a trophy light that
I used to race in and it's allrelative, right.
So if you're racing with trophytrucks, they're blowing by you
when you're in a trophy light,but then when you're door to
door with another trophy light,it's, it's the most competitive

(45:21):
thing, and that's the same thingwith the side-by-sides is there
could be, you know, you couldbe in any class of the race, but
they all have theircompetitiveness and that's what
makes you, you know, thrive as aracer.
It doesn't matter what you'rein fast, slow, you're going to
go as fast as you can in thatclass and in that car.

(45:44):
And it's like we were talkingabout the 500, the.
You can in that class and inthat car.
We were talking about the 500.
The difference between the 6100and the Trophy Truck is a huge
difference, even though it's thesame identical truck.
Besides the motor.
It's all relative to the classreally.
You can be the fastest in anyof the classes, but you're going
to have just as muchcompetition in the class.

(46:05):
But it is.
It's like, uh, it's like, howdo I put it?
It's like walking a chihuahuaversus trying to wrangle two
pitbulls kind of deal it's alittle.
It's a, it's a pace change.
Um, you have to be veryobservant because the things
that obstacles and terrain inthe trophy truck are like triple

(46:30):
danger in the side by side, towhere the speed is all relative
and some of the stuff doesn'taffect you.
It's like it's like a dirt bike, like the side by side is
smaller, so the road gets bigger.
Versus the trophy truck andsome of the same roads you might
be clipping the trees andbushes on both sides wearing the
can-am.
You can.
You can bob and weave and andit's not uh, it's not uh.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Well, it's not as challenging to get through the
terrain I'll give our ournon-racer friends that watch the
dirt life show a little bit ofan example.
So I took my dad for a ride ina polaris pro r because we just
have a play car for Polaris ProR and he was used to a Razor 800
or a 900 or even a Yamaha Rhino.
And we're going up to theselittle washouts and they're
probably only a foot deep,they're no big deal, like I'm

(47:16):
just going to blip over them,like in the Pro R, and he grabs
those shit bars and says slowthe fuck down, because he's
ready to hit it, because hismindset thinks that it's a
different vehicle and he thinkswe're gonna like wad it up right
and he goes over and he goes,oh okay, this car does it
different.
So I see exactly what you'resaying and I think they could
probably relate in somethinglike that yeah and it's and it's

(47:39):
true with um like the.

Speaker 8 (47:41):
The biggest difference that I think joe saw
is when he got out of the sideby side and he came to a test
session and he drove the truckand he's like this is
unbelievable.
He's like this the, the spectruck, goes 90 through these
bumps at the mint and we'regoing 50, 60 miles an hour,
slamming the skid plate right onthe edge of like trying to get

(48:02):
on top of it and hurting the carbecause that one oh shit moment
where the bump is like an toget on top of it and hurting the
car because that one oh shitmoment where the bump is like an
extra five feet further thanthe next one, that could really
hurt you.
And that's where you have tokind of reel it back and say
okay, look, this isn't a trophytruck, like, like, we're going
fast enough, we just got to keepthe car together is that easy
for you to manage, like, uh, youknow, switching those seats and

(48:24):
being able to do it?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
because there was actually I thought there was a
race that we saw you get out ofone car and get into another car
within a matter of, I don'teven know, 15 minutes, half an
hour uh, I did that with.

Speaker 8 (48:37):
I did that with, uh, brett serapis, probably four or
five years back.
I was driving the 6100 and thenI got out and then I jumped in
to ride with him at we were atLaughlin.
Yeah, I think that it wassomething and I literally ran.
I literally ran from there andran to another truck, but I
can't remember.
I'm sure I've done it a fewtimes.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
But yeah, it was just like to me.
It was like how does his brainswitch so quickly?

Speaker 8 (49:07):
Get was like how, how does his brain switch so
quickly?
Get ahead of yourself a littlebit maybe.
Well, a lot of fit is theexperience like for me.
I can write, I can pre-run inthe can-am and write notes for
the trophy truck because I knowthe capability of the trophy
truck so it's easy for me togauge the distance and the speed
and like the obstacle and stuff.
I know it's harder than that wasa learned skill from going back
and forth from racing thecan-am to the trophy truck
because, uh, a lot of the notesfrom the trophy truck will

(49:32):
transfer, or a lot of from thecan-am will transfer to the
trophy truck and vice versa.
But then there's the littledifferences of the obstacles to
where if you have a danger 1-2-3, you can change the scale in
the trophy truck because theDanger 1-2 in the Can-Am is a 1
in the trophy truck, where youdon't even think about it, you

(49:52):
don't even look or call the note, you just drive right through
it because you're blastingthrough stuff so much faster.
So a lot of that just comeswith time pre-running in Can-Am,
so much in Mexico and justlearning it and pre-running in
the States and the trucks andstuff like that.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Literally seat time, like Erica was talking about,
like you can literally feel itin your butt and you're so like,
you're so into it that youcould pretty much know exactly
what it's going to feel like inyour butt in the different car.

Speaker 4 (50:16):
Have you ever gone into the can am, though, and
been way ahead of yourself Like,oh, keep going.

Speaker 8 (50:26):
The corner will be up there.
Yeah, it's like hey, it's upthere in half a mile and in the
trophy truck doing $1.40, $1.50.
You're a little late.
You're late, you're alreadypast it.
You blew the turn.
But in the K&M it's like okay,it's still coming and you're
just waiting for it.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
You look at your watch.
I remember that V sometimeswhen you're switching back and
forth, mostly in the UTV,because you're you're so ready
and you just want to get going,and so you call that corner and
you're like, nevermind, keepgoing.

Speaker 8 (50:56):
Yeah, it's like it's.
I do find myself sometimescalling them too early, but in
stuff that I've memorized on,like the courses where we just
do laps, like the last few yearsI've raced the um, the uh, the
mid 400 on friday and saturdayand it's like I don't even look
at the gps.
Like I've been out there somuch.
We test out there, um, and joelives out there and it's not.

(51:20):
It's just like when I get inwith tim I'm just so spent from
doing 20 laps.
You know already out therepre-running and racing or
whatever testing that it's justmuscle memory at that point.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yeah, I can totally see what that like, and you were
saying too, what was thequestion that you had?
Oh, what style notes does heuse, or what style?
Yeah, I was just going to askevery nav like what style do you
he use?

Speaker 4 (51:44):
or what style?
Yeah, I was just gonna askevery nav like what style do you
use?
Because it's different, likekyle I kind of touched on it
could be different from driverto driver, but like what's your
preferred style?

Speaker 8 (51:57):
uh, like, like with ryan earlier days, uh, we would
do pace notes and that's what heliked, because that's what he
was used to and it would keephim focused.
Um, I, I take a, a crudeversion of that for for tim,
just because he's so vetted andhe's so experienced that he's

(52:17):
he's been through so many milesthat he just needs a, he just
needs a reminder kind of deal.
You know, we pre-run so muchtoo.
We've been, we've been, youknow, at the baja races we do
six, seven laps of our section,something like that, and and
it's just like, like I said, itjust it gets repetitive, but

(52:38):
that's so important becausethere's less to worry about,
right.
So a lot of people that don'tget to pre-run or don't pre-run
or maybe do it, see it one ortwo times that aren't as
familiar with like, say baja,there's the fear of the unknown
and if we and we're soexperienced in baja, as you saw,
like we love to pre-run, welive to pre-run there, right it,

(53:01):
that takes one of the factorsout, especially Right it, that
takes one of the factors out,especially there's still a
safety factor and the riskinvolved during the race.
But as far as the safety of theunknown.
That usually doesn't become afactor just because we spend so
much time down there and we doso much of it that it's just

(53:21):
like you're driving to workevery day, like come race day.
It's like you don't look at thegps.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
You know it so well, you're worried about, you know,
spectators and, uh, thecompetition yeah, when you drive
into the dust, when you've doneall the homework, the test is
easy, right?

Speaker 4 (53:36):
yeah, sometimes the test is easy sometimes I say,
like the gps is a goodverification that that crest
left is a crest left right, orthat dip is something we need to
slow up for, or we can justcheck out and go.
So, it's a great verificationand that's why I like to have
detailed notes to verify what'scoming is what we think it is.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
That actually made me think of kind of a different, a
whole different subject change.
If you want to finish yourthought, jason, go ahead, but I
have a whole different.

Speaker 8 (54:04):
Oh no, and I was just going to add that's not to say
that I don't use the GPS.
I still use it 100% of the time, even though I know where I'm
going.
Because, like you said, it'sjust a verification and it just
reaffirms that you are going theright way or that you did hit
the VCPs, and it just instillsconfidence.

Speaker 4 (54:28):
VCPs are a big one these days.
There's been a lot of missedones.
Do you have a way that youdon't miss VCPs?
Do you have a strategy?

Speaker 8 (54:37):
I'm not going to jinx myself, because I've never been
in that situation.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I'm with you on that.
What's that?
You just pre-run.

Speaker 8 (54:44):
What's that?
You just pre-run.
Like Tim and I always say,stick to the yellow brick road.
We use our lines where we havegood lines and where we can make
passes, but the best way is tostick to the yellow brick road.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
Yeah, do you give yourself a little bit of
variation, Because you know theGPS kind of has 50 feet of
wonder, because the GPS kind ofhas 50 feet of wander For the
most part.

Speaker 8 (55:08):
when it comes to BCPs , we'll make sure we're on
course.
Yeah, Other than that, it'sfree game.

Speaker 4 (55:17):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
So you guys kind of got me thinking a little bit
about something that I'm likeyou're not just a navigator in
the car, right, You're also atherapist or you're Dr Phil in
all day, right.
And I always wondered this,because I'm at the starting line
a lot of times.
I'm at the finish line a lot oftimes.
In between I can't see what youguys are doing, but I can see
when I'm standing with you guysat the starting line.

(55:42):
Let's just use as an examplethat you're using all your
intuitive brain to gauge whatthe attitude of the driver is on
that day, so that you canadjust your mental capacity to
match theirs before you take offon the starting line.
Like, how do you even do that?
Because that's like reading a,like doctor filling somebody
every time you have to get inthe car with them.

Speaker 8 (56:02):
It's crazy um, some days are better than others.
Most are good.
I think usually, um leading upto the race, either the day of
or the day before, you kind ofhave a good vibe on on um, on on
the attitude and how things aregoing to go, depending on where

(56:26):
you qualify, where the race is,how long the race is.
You know that plays a part.
You know you can rely on on ondifferent things, um to kind of
help gauge what the vibe is andwhat where you're going to be
needed whether it's a drivingcoach or you're just calling
turns or, like you said, atherapist, it really depends.

(56:50):
And then things changethroughout the race.
So you have to just be able toadjust and, like we always say,
adapt and overcome.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Yeah, exactly, being intuitive is a pretty good
quality.
I feel like that's reallynecessary, not just in the daily
life but in the navigator seat.

Speaker 4 (57:07):
Yeah, I think we tend to be a lot more intuitive, but
that's why it's nice to knowyour driver.
Know you know is something off.
What do I need to do to getthem out of this funk?
You just kind of have to know.
If you don't know your driver,necessarily you don't know.
If you can push them, you don'tknow how to get them out of the

(57:31):
funk.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
You don't know all the unknown right.
It's just kind of like you guysever had.
Um well, let's just ask you,jason, to answer this first have
you had a day where there wasjust all friction, all day?

Speaker 8 (57:40):
no, because I usually , yeah, you either push through
it or I mean, you have to lookat the good like.
We've had races where it's likelaughlin day one we got beat
and then it's like we can'tworry about this because it's
it's, we're going for broke.
Like we have to.
We have to just push throughand think the best of things,

(58:03):
because you know you, everyone'sgoing to give it their best
right and your best has to bejust a little bit better.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
Right yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
That's a good point.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
Something at the beginning of the race that I
like to do is get a little bitahead, because it takes drivers
sometimes 30, 40 miles to getsettled in.
Um, so that's usually adiscussion I have with a new
driver, like when I race withRyan Millen at the 500, I said,
hey, how long does it take youto get settled?
He's like I'm a rally driver,I'm immediate, I'm like, yeah,

(58:37):
you know where other driverskind of get ahead of it, so that
if they're Other drivers kindof get ahead of it, so that if
they're, it gives them time tomaybe slow down a little before
the corner where they're notready.
You know, like it just kind ofslows it down for them to get
settled and then, once it startsto click, you kind of pick it
up and get rolling.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
So you have to just like feel them out.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
Yeah, yeah.
There's times where you justhave to kind of all right, here
we go.
What are you feeling?
Are you ready?

Speaker 8 (59:08):
yeah, yeah, and I think it varies.
Like when I race with ryan,like he said he's a, he's a
go-getter, like he's used toqualify.
He did very well qualifying andI and I I tell him like, look,
if you don't go, someone elsewill so get.
So get on the pipe.
And he was always.
He was always ready to.
Just as soon as we startedqualifying or the race, he would

(59:28):
, he could switch it on, justlike that.
You know, and other people theyhave, they need a little bit
more time.
You know, tim likes to getsettled in and he'll get 15, 20
miles under his belt and he'sstill running a good pace.
But then he's like I, I feelthe pace pick up and I start
feeding him more information andit just instills confidence.
I'm like, okay, you ready.

(59:49):
He's like I'm here, let's go.
Then I know it's game on andwe're going.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
Dude, that's super cool, I bet you when he feels
that he's like yeah, let's go.
He's just getting ready to rip.

Speaker 8 (01:00:10):
Most of the time he never gets amped up.
Really, he's uh, we, we stay,we have like a very good
relationship in the car andthere's there's a ton of trust
and, um, we never really getworked up and, unless you know,
we get frustrated like beingstuck behind someone, um, like
the, the san felipe footage.
You know, we, we, uh, we, uh,we kind of messed up a little
bit in qualifying and gottowards the back of the pack and
we're like man, we're going to,we're going to have to pick off

(01:00:32):
like 10 of these guys.
So we're in like our, our, likesweet spot of where we should
be and it was.
It was frustrating, you know,just the thick dust and trying
not to crash and then justgiving her hell when we had a
chance to.
And you know it's just you,gotta, you kind of gotta gate,
gotta gauge.

(01:00:52):
It's like a time and place kindof thing, like we switch it up.
You turn it up when you need toand then you run smart and you
stick to your notes becauseeveryone knows like as soon as
you catch someone or as soon asyou're, you're getting caught,
like everyone sees red and youthrow it out the window and
that's where you know, we staylevel-headed and we're like okay
, we gotta be smart about thisso that's actually a really good

(01:01:14):
topic that I think we shouldbring up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Uh, for like to close out your segment, is how do you
do that, like, how do you tripand fall and then get back up
again?
Because those are verydifficult things to do, because
let's just say, for whateverreason, you get a flat tire and
then it's like, okay, well, fuck, I got to catch up and then you
just pin it and all of a suddenyou, I don't know, you get off
course and you get lost and yougot to come back on.

(01:01:38):
Whatever the situation is Racebrain.
Yeah, exactly.
How do you recover, like from?

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
race break, or or even more.
So how do you guys?

Speaker 8 (01:01:50):
fix the driver to recover, they get to sit there.
Yeah, yeah, they get they, butthey sit there running so high
no yeah, we're, I usually.
We usually don't get emotional,like I try to, I try to.
I try to we keep it cool.
And even if something happens,it's just like, yeah, that's
kind of racing.
But you know you can't letthose things set you back

(01:02:11):
mentally, because then that'swhen it starts to affect your
racing.
Like, if it's a tire, no bigdeal.
But, like a few years ago withthe 500, we left the pit, we got
, got a flat.
One minute later we get anotherflat, and then, like 30 miles
later, we get another flat.
Then it's like, okay,something's going on.
We need to like chill, becausewe're stuck here, we have no

(01:02:34):
tires, until the chase truck gotthere to save us.
So it's like, okay, now we gotto be smart about this.
But you know, you have timeswhere, like you either either
crash or something like that,like it happened with us this
year at the mint, like it's,it's it was.
At first it felt heartbreakingand then, once we assessed the

(01:02:55):
situation, that everything wasgood, um, you know, we got back
going.
You know it was a, it was a joe, he collected himself and it's
like, okay, dude, we're stillfine, we're not hurt the car's
in one piece, just keep goingand then you know, 20 minutes
later, get back to the pit car's.
Okay, then the morale's back upand it's like, hey, we're still

(01:03:15):
in the hunt, like we need toget back to where we were
mentally dude, it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
I like, I love that you guys can switch it off on
and on and off like that.
I always told everybody one ofthe best things about a racer's
brain is that they can forgetabout all of the mistakes that
happened in the last corner andjust keep moving forward.
That's exactly what youexplained.
Those traits are very difficultto have, so that you guys have
those and you guys can pushthose onto the drivers is pretty

(01:03:41):
amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Sometimes, yeah, most of the time you can, I'll say I
wasn't very good at that at the500.
I got pretty frustrated withmyself.
But then the cool part is, evenif you're frustrated and you're
like, well, we could have won,but we got a flat, it didn't go
well.
And then you get out andthey're like you're in fifth
physically and you're like whatI had no idea.

(01:04:04):
We're still in the hunt, youknow.
So sometimes being able to pitand get those times and or your
position, you're like.
You're like you said you go tothe pit sometimes and it's like,
oh, all, right, we're still init, let's go.
You know.
So, pit to pit sometimes is howI race, because you just never
know what can happen in thosemiles in between.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Yeah, you can divide it up.
Eat the elephant one bite at atime, right?
Yeah.
Jason, what's a tip that youwould give to the newbies if
they want to get in thepassenger seat?

Speaker 8 (01:04:34):
The newbies for the passenger seat.
I would say learn from someonethat knows that you can just
kind of tag along with and learnfrom right.
Kind of start to get your ducksin a row.
I think I was saying, or Trevorwas saying, get all your gear,

(01:04:55):
you never know what can happen.
You know there's there's peoplethat have just been thrown into
race cars I have no idea, andthen they ended up loving it and
then they end up pursuing thatyou know.
So just learn from someone,because that's going to be the
biggest help.
It's just a transfer ofknowledge and it'll help
expedite you to where you wantto be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
yeah, totally um.
So uh, drew basara just askedif you offer training classes.
Eric offers training courseswith a lot of the gps stuff.
What about you?

Speaker 8 (01:05:24):
yeah, drew's just been trolling you guys, he's
been trolling everybody.
I've known Drew for a long time.
He's a great mechanic and avery experienced navigator as
well.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
Yeah, he is Drew's, my birthday twin.
We're twins, same day, sameeverything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
I like that.
He's trolling us, though he'sprobably making our algorithm go
up.
Keep it up, keep it up drew.

Speaker 8 (01:05:51):
He has a lot of experience as well.
So when's the next time you'regonna get in the seat, jason?
Um, we're racing, uh, the baja400 sweet man.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
Uh, all right, so we'll see you at the baja 400
pretty soon.
Dude, you want to throw anyshouts out to anybody before you
dip?

Speaker 8 (01:06:05):
Uh, I wanted to shout out to star stream for always
keeping us on mute, but thevideo rolling.
I appreciate it, buddy.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
All right, have a good one dude, we'll see you
soon, all right, bye guys, bye,yeah.
Uh, all right, we're going toget Evan Weller on here too.
Uh, I do have like one of thosethings where you guys were
talking about uh people beingready.
Uh, flipper was on, uh, and hegot in the uh, evan weller right
there.
I don't know why it's doingthat, dude, let us do okay,

(01:06:39):
there we go.
It changed, the app got updated.
Uh, we're like one of the.
The honda talons had to getlike, the co-driver had to get
out and uh, they were like dude,does anybody else bring their
suit?
Anybody else bring their suit?
Like three seconds later, weweren't even looking, he was
jumping in.
I was like where the hell didthat guy come from?
Jumped in.
They just took off it was sobadass.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
It happens all the time when I wasn't racing
because of my neck.
There were so manyopportunities that I was kicking
myself for.
But it's fun.
And then you get to hear how itwas to just jump in and go not
necessarily mentally ready- yeah, you just get in and go.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:15):
All right.
Well, our next guest.
He gets in and goes in a lot ofdifferent trucks.
I've seen Evan Weller in a fewdifferent trucks.
He rode with Caden McCachran inone of the geyser trucks.
He rides a lot with the hondafactory off-road racing team and
many other ones.
What's up, evan?
How are you?

Speaker 6 (01:07:30):
I'm good man.
How are you doing?
How you doing, erica?

Speaker 4 (01:07:33):
hi evan yeah, how you guys he called me to try to get
me back racing oh I know wegotta get bader going again.
Yeah, he, yeah then you get inthe herp truck I know, I know,
it was a ride I couldn't pass upum no, that's a great, that's a
great deal.
I uh a few people I would jumpin with, and when ryan millen

(01:07:56):
sent me that I'm like, I guessI'm going racing I know when I
know that's a pretty cool deal.

Speaker 6 (01:08:02):
You gotta do a lot of miles with them, you know, yeah
, that'll be really cool.
Um, you know it was cool withthe whole baiter thing.
I, I think that you you kind ofbrought that whole program
together.
When they're racing and it's abummer, they're not racing, you
know anymore right now orwhatever whatever is happening
with their program.
But, um, you know he speaksvery highly of you as a
navigator along with dan fresh.

Speaker 4 (01:08:23):
So because I still ride with Dan Fresh from time to
time in his little rockbuggies- yeah, and I think I
don't know if you were on hereearlier when Kyle and Trevor and
I were talking aboutrelationships.
You know, it's such arelationship thing with your
driver where nothing weird,because I'm a girl with guys all

(01:08:45):
the time but you just get toknow each other so well that the
relationship happens and thenyou can figure it out.
You know what each other arelike.
You don't have anything to hide.
They know that you're going toget grumpy day three because
you're a little bit sore and alittle bit tired, and they just
show up with snacks sometimes.

(01:09:08):
So it's a.
Thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Snacks repair relationships.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
Oh, there's these things called.
What are they down there?
Crankies, and I was callingthem Navigator food for a while.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Is they really called crankies?

Speaker 4 (01:09:21):
Yeah, they're like these gross chocolate covered
things.
Have you ever had a cranky oven?

Speaker 6 (01:09:26):
Never heard of that.
No, Usually I just get, likeyou know, Nutri-Grain bar, a
piece of turkey or something.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Yeah, I was going to say maybe oven never gets cranky
.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
I don't know, I used to Try not to.
Kellen was a huge.
He was somebody that justreally taught me a huge
influence on my racing.
And, uh, one day I showed upand gave him some crankies and I
just named it navigator food,so that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Well, evan, you've been, uh, you do on a daily
basis.
You guys prep trucks, you guysprep cars, you guys prep utvs,
all the different ones, right?
Um, erica's been talking aboutthe, the feeling that you have
in your butt or the feeling youhave in the seat when you're in
a car, right, that you know whatthe driver's doing.
You can feel if it's smooth, ifyou feel the flow is going, if

(01:10:13):
you feel that the flow is off,do you think that you, working
with the teams and the vehiclesand all that stuff, gives you an
advantage?
Like, does that help you whenyou're in the seat?

Speaker 6 (01:10:30):
I don't know.
I think it adds an extraelement of stress.
You know, if you're preppingthe car and it comes out of your
shop and it's, you know, aprogram that you care a lot
about when you're in the car andyou know trying to race
competitively and taking linesthat you're not sure about, you
know, in the heat of the battle,um, I think that's where you
know the extra element of stress.
So I don't know, I I I've hadsome of the most fun racing in

(01:10:50):
cars that I have not prepped.
You know, just kind of show up,arrive and ride and, uh, I
think it's a blast.
You know, I've also beenspoiled lately.
I've been riding with a lot ofreally fast guys.
So, um, I kind of get you know alittle bit of everything
between the Grabowskis, um, youknow Christian Serapis, um, I
got like I said the same beforeI got to ride with Dan fresh,
that guy can drive, holy crap.

(01:11:10):
I, uh I did that Baja Nevadarace with him two years ago, him
and Bader.
Um, that was the last race theyraced and, uh, I think that was

(01:11:31):
the first race I did with Dan.
I think I did like an ultrafour thing with him.
I can't remember, but I racedin his bomber as well, but
anyways, um, that was a blast.
You know the car wasn't like setup very well and it was kind of
slow, but um, it was a blast.
You know Dan knows how to throwthe truck around and he can
like really read terrain.
Um, you know where, sometimesyou know you get in with someone
who you know you don'tnecessarily go to Mexico with or
go ride with and you go testwith them Like, oh crap, is this
guy, you know, capable of doingthis down in Baja?
But you can tell when you getinto a car with like a Grabowski

(01:11:51):
or a Serapis or you know, cadenMcCachran, man, oh man, that
guy is fast.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
So yeah, I just think you know there's a whole
element of stress that's addedwhen you're, when you have some
skin in the game, especiallyfrom my vantage point, dude,
that's super cool.
Yeah and uh.
One thing I want to say realquick is a couple people have
chimed in saying that, uh, themicrophones are maybe not coming
through our audio equipmentinto instagram, so sorry about
that, guys, if it's nothappening, but we have
everything working on the mixer,so our main focus is always on
for itunes and for the spotifystuff.
It looks like is it these?

(01:12:26):
Should I take them out?
no, I don't think it's you, Ithink it's us I don't know I
think we can hear you just fineand we can see all the stuff
working on the for the audiostuff.
So, okay, whoever's oninstagram, if you need us to
speak up, just tell us, el,please.
Um, so yeah, yeah, I do thinkit adds probably a level of
stress.
But then there's also the otherthing where, like you and your
guys tightened all the boltsright.

(01:12:46):
Like you, you know that thatcertain things are going to be
well done.
I know that with my racingprogram, I wasn't a navigator,
obviously, but I, yeah, I wasalways able to understand, hey,
you know what.
I know exactly what that soundis, because I tighten that bolt
on the drive shaft or I tightenthe differential or whatever so
I think there's right yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:13:06):
It's it's honestly not even in my head about the
prep side of it.
It's part failure.
You know we've we've had a fewthings this year that we've
caught early, and then you knowsome other things that have
taken us out of races that havejust been plain, you know.
Part failure and that's thebiggest thing is like, you know,
when you know you don't havecontrol over something and you
bolt it in the car and you doyour best to, you know dyno it

(01:13:28):
properly, break it in, test it,you know maintain it, and then
you know you don't get the milesthat you are planning to get
out of it.
So that's something that is, Ithink, the biggest stress case
that I have is like, oh, is thatpark going to fail?
Or, you know, does that changethat we made going to, you know,
be something that we want to do?
To go down to Baja, Cause, like,we're constantly trying

(01:13:49):
different things, Um, we got alot of cool little programs
going on right now between, likeMike Marsal, the spy Brentall
truck that we do here, and then,um, the Alexander Ford, um,
Jordan pool, Ryan Hancock, theirprogram, where, um, we're very,
very honed in on what we'redoing prep-wise and trying
things and trying to make thesetrucks faster.
And then you go to Proctor'sprogram and he's got all this

(01:14:11):
factory Fox support and thenHonda.
It's pretty amazing, those guyswill come up here and they'll
plug their little computers inand Game Boys or whatever.
I don't know what they're doing, but somehow the truck always
goes faster and faster.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
I got to go up and see evan's shop.
Have you ever been up there?
I haven't it's super cool upthere.
They got their own little likearea out in simi valley and, uh,
it's just like one of thosethings where you pull off the
road and you see just heaven forall oh yeah, yeah, it's like a
little light.

Speaker 6 (01:14:38):
Oh, it's the best yeah, it's, yeah, it's heaven.
I I always get, you know,bummed when I'm not here.
When I'm gone at a race, I'mlike man, I just want to be home
in the shop, and then when I'mat the shop, like I just want to
go down to Baja and race.
So it's always a catch-22.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
Actually, that's actually a really good question.
I'm going to go off book hereand ask do you like racing in
Mexico better or the UnitedStates better?

Speaker 6 (01:15:05):
you have like a personal favorite track kind of
thing, like yeah, that's, that'sa tough question because the
majority of our business is inbaja.
It's like everyone races mexiconow there's not a whole lot of.
You know, I wish it was morecompetitive stateside, I really
do.
But you know, other than themint 400 and you know parker was
pretty fun this year they hadthe back-to-back parkers, um.
But mexico is where all the isand the majority of my customers
that are racing spec truck theywant to race in Mexico.

(01:15:28):
So I love Mexico.
It just adds, you know, a wholenother element of complexity to
it and it's very.
You know, if you got the rightteam, the right guys and they
all know what they're doing, itgoes very smooth.
But it's taken us, you know, ina short period of time.
It's taken us a lot of learningto get where we're at and we've
only been doing the pit supportstuff for two years now with

(01:15:50):
our customers.
Before that it was kind of like, hey, we'll prep your truck,
pick it up and go down to Bahanand I would go support Honda
because I was obviously ridingwith Proctor back when he was
still racing.
But now it's kind of grown intowhere I'm starting to build up
our chase assets and our team.
We've got our California guysthat go Most of them work here
at my shop and a few other guysthat are in California, and then

(01:16:12):
our Arizona team that meets usdown there and with the mixture
of the personnel that we wereable to put together in the past
two years, it's been prettyawesome.
And then occasionally, the helpwith the Grabowskis.
They've got 4,000 people ontheir team, so it's pretty
awesome.
And then you know, occasionally, the help with the grabowskis.
You know they got 4 000 peopleon their team, so it's it's
pretty awesome.
If we ever need help, we just,you know, give dusty a call and
they can always, or jack jack'skind of the ringleader with all

(01:16:34):
that.
Um, so, yeah, I don't know it'sbaja or stateside, I like vegas
torino.
Vegas torino is probably myfavorite race.
Everyone always laughs when Isay that because, like, oh,
vegas torino is boring, but, um,I like, I like vegas torino, I
like the terrain up there.
I just did that baja nevadarace with the eisenhowers and
that was fun.
Um, the course was not superfun, but being up in, you know,

(01:16:57):
nevada was cool, um those uhcourse markings yeah, that was
not really like ideal for fastracing.
I can't imagine the first guygoing through there, you know,
on a trophy truck or spec truck.
You know that jake johnson guysure is fast, but if he was one
of the first guys going throughsome of those trails, I don't.

(01:17:17):
I don't know how you do it.
I mean, we're driving up theside of these mountains that are
, you're twisting through trees.
You know the truck width willbarely fit through some sections
and you can see that.
You know, maybe four peoplehave driven through there, even
though a whole train of people.
You know nick and I were prettydown on time on the first day.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
We had a fun first day, but yeah, no, it was, it
was good well, I pre-ran thewhole course before you guys
went there, but like six weeksbefore you guys went there yeah,
so I was the one that mowedover all the trees oh thanks as
well no, I didn't get to markthe course.
I I honestly, like I I relateit because I heard everybody say

(01:17:54):
it was the best, the bestcourse to the worst course.
Right, like I heard all of itand I love it too.
It's rad yeah, and I love itwhen people say this because
it's both right like yeah, thisthis is where off-road racing
started.
They gave you a destination anda start point and you just got
there however you wanted.
Like that's how it started andI get it.
Like I wouldn't want to fuck upmy car, I wouldn't want to like

(01:18:15):
do anything like run overbushes and stuff.
So I don't understand the wholesituation, but this is how
things evolve.
This is how things get better,right.
Uh, evolve, this is how thingsget better, right.

Speaker 6 (01:18:26):
So I give those guys at legacy a lot of credit for
being able to do what they did.
And it's not even like messingup the trucks, because I think
everyone knows what they'regetting into.
Uh, it's more just like a flowyrace course that makes sense.
You know, like the thing thatstressed nick and I out, and
it's not to bash it at all, butlike we were in this one section
we had just passed this carthat was holding us up for a
very long time and, um, we're inin the trees and I'm like we're
on gps course and all of asudden the gps course goes way

(01:18:49):
to the right and we're stillseeing the ribbons and I'm like
nick, just keep going that way,because the course is way over
there, but we're not going to godrive through the trees.
So I don't know other than thatit was a blast.
We just, you know it was alittle more hairy than we wanted
it to be at times, um, um, butyou know those guys drive pretty
fast and I don't know, chris isa great driver, nick's a great
driver.
I rode with Chris day two.

(01:19:10):
Um, you know, I used to ridewith Chris a lot back when, like
when I first started doing allthis stuff and his F 100, I used
to do it all like the Laughlinand prim races with him,
ridgecrest.
You know, the night race outthere in Jean and um, I hadn't
ridden with him for a very longtime and I rode with him, you
know, a couple, you know a monthago or whatever it was, and it
was a blast.
You know he's he's so likelaser, focused on doing well and

(01:19:32):
doesn't talk, you know, doesn'tsay a word the whole race, and
he starts, he gives you a littlehead nod and then you know you
finish and he gives you anotherhead nod and you get out part
ways.
So where nick's like his handsare doing this the whole time,
you know his hands are barely onthe wheel we were going like
one hundred and twenty five andhe hits this, this jump, and he
just does this.

(01:19:52):
And I always see him doing hisvideos like he does this thing
for the tuba and the video guys,where he sees the videographer
and he'll launch the truck andthen he just goes lock to lock
and I'm like, dude, is that, isthat really necessary?
Like, why are we doing that,nicholas?

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
hey, so I actually I don't know that he's doing it
for the same reason, but, likewhen I raced rc cars, the
professional rc guys do the samething rc cars are inside the
car, though, I know but they doit.

Speaker 6 (01:20:20):
They do it to check the steering wheel so, yeah, I
think nick's doing it for thegram.
I honestly think, well, if he'sdoing it for the gram.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
That's fine too, but like there is like a reason to
do that yeah, they're not itlooks cool car.

Speaker 6 (01:20:31):
Yeah, all I think, because, like he's racing, he's
just thinking about you knowracing and going as fast as he's
going.
I'm just thinking, man, if thatsteering gear locks up and
we're full lock left, that thatdoesn't bode well for us, you
know, in in the truck.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
So I don't know Doing it for the people Maybe I don't
know.

Speaker 6 (01:20:49):
Those guys are awesome.
They have a pretty cool youknow social media page.
Everything they do is awesome.
They're hilarious.
So, no, it's awesome.
I like racing with theEisenhowers.
I wish I could do it more.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
It's kind of cool that you've gotten to ride with
well, erica has too but likethat, you've gotten to ride with
so many different people, right?
Do you have, like, yeah, somememories in the past or some
stories that have been like, wow, I was a little bit nervous to
ride with this person, but theytotally, like you know, made it
better once we got behind thewheel, or like, holy crap, it
was crazy yeah, I mean, that washonestly how it was in the
beginning, racing with proctor.

Speaker 6 (01:21:24):
Um, you know, because I did most of my mexico stuff
was with proctor in the seventruck and then it turned into
the tisco seven truck, which was, you know, a pretty fast truck.
Um, you know, when we wereracing we're always racing with
spec trucks and class one carsand all that- um, so most on us
one time yeah koh.
That was a.

Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
Was that koh yeah yeah that was fun, I uh this
narrow little section and poppedout.
I'm like, well, that wasawesome pass I love.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
What vehicle were you in?

Speaker 4 (01:21:52):
I think I was with bader yeah, you were with bader
either.

Speaker 6 (01:21:57):
Bader dan, right?
Yeah, I don't know, it was forsure the bader truck.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Well tell, yeah give us a little bit more of a
rundown.
Tell us a story of how theypopped out.

Speaker 4 (01:22:06):
And then I want to hear from Evan too.
We'll have similar stories.

Speaker 6 (01:22:11):
Yeah, it'll be similar.

Speaker 4 (01:22:13):
That's the bottom line, but it was just a strategy
.
There were two really longout-of-the-way lines and one got
really narrow and their trucktrucks a little bit narrower
than ours.
So, uh, we took the non narrowway and we you pop out and like

(01:22:35):
the line they were on is apretty much left 90 up a hill
and ours is kind of straightthrough.
So they just like came in andwe slammed on the brakes and
then they got in front of us andthey went.
I think that's what I loveabout racing you know, you can,
you can be out there.
It's, it's not ferocious, youknow, you guys are just like
you're racing your race and Ilove that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
I love passes like that.
Did you know that that you guyswere going to give a run for
the money right there?

Speaker 6 (01:23:00):
Yeah, yeah, no, we did, we were.
I mean, they were super fast.
It took us a while.
I remember that same race Ithink that was the race that
Dustin Grabowski passed us Likewe were standing still.
I didn't even know a truckcould go that fast in these
rollers and it was off the startand we I think we outqualified
them.
But they were like right behindus and we went over the BJ Hill

(01:23:22):
, we're going down those youknow the big whoops, and all of
a sudden we just feel bang, likeright off the bat, like oh,
there must be a truck behind us.
And then Dustin goes by us likewow, that truck is really fast
for a spec truck.
And then we were on them, youknow, within maybe 30 seconds of
them, for the next 20 miles,and they're in these rollers and

(01:23:42):
I remember we're trying to keepup with them and I just see
their truck just launching, likewow, how is he going that fast?
And then Proctor and I ended upgetting a flat, you know, like
five minutes later.
And then we were way down ontime.
But the later that race orsometime later, we ended up
catching up to you guys and thenwe were kind of in your dust.
And then I told Proctor likehey, you got that left turn,
should we try it?
And we tried it and you know itended up working out for us.

(01:24:07):
But I would have been, you know, on the receiving end if it
didn't work out.
That's the one downside ofbeing a navigator sometime and
calling out for the driver likehey, go try that or go try that
line over there.
If it doesn't work out, thenthey're just looking at you like
what, why did we do that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
that's actually a super good point to bring up.
So when you guys are writingyour course notes, do you guys
have spare lines?
Oh, yeah, yeah oh yeah, that'slike how do you, how do you do
that like?

Speaker 6 (01:24:32):
so, uh, erica probably has a lot more than me,
but, like when I go with withlike christian serapis, we'll go
pre-run like san felipe, youknow 250 mile race and he'll go
put two 2 000 miles inpre-running it.
He'll know every single likelittle stick and um, we'll have
all these alternate lines and Iput notes in there like, oh, if
we're in this much, you know, ifwe're on someone, we could take

(01:24:55):
this line.
Or and I have all this likelingo I put into the gps when
I'm really like pre-running umsays it's always our fault.
That's 100 yeah, but no.
So christian's big on that.
I enjoy doing that.
You know, pre-running with himis always fun and then he kind
of just leaves it up to me.
He remembers the course.
A guy like Christian, he'llliterally remember every inch of

(01:25:17):
the course.
He just needs to be reminded.
You know, like, hey, we'recoming up to you know that one
high line or that one low line,like, because I don't know we've
we've gotten a lot of people,um, in San Felipe, especially on
some good lines, and uh, that'shonestly where I've I've, like,
really learned a lot of thepre-running stuff was with
pre-running with Christian.
You know he goes to the fullestextent to.

(01:25:38):
You know turn around and goback and turn around again.
And you know I'm sitting in thecar for you know 10 hour day
and when I get back I'm like,hey, we gotta work on the
pre-runner now I want to go tosleep.
So, yeah, he's, he, he puts inthe effort.

Speaker 4 (01:25:50):
You know that kid can he really goes I've pre-ran two
races with him before and hedefinitely needs to put in the
effort, yeah oh, yeah, yeah, hedoes it's finding all those
spare lines like how do youinject those in to be in a
positive, useful use case duringthe race.
So I think everybody does it alittle bit different.
I use waypoints and I dosegmented lines.

(01:26:11):
So if there's a line coming,I'll drop a trail and I decide
if I want to keep it or deleteit.
I have, I'm telling you guys,but I have like my cut lines are
red, and then if there's a linethat's not necessarily faster
but could get me out of dust, Imake it green and I make my way
point, say pass.
And so I have my own strategywhere, ahead of time, I'll put a

(01:26:34):
way point and it'll say rightline, and I definitely want to
take it, or I want to pass, andso I'll know.
You know I have variation.
I have variation in my notes aswell for racing in dust versus
being able to see what we're upagainst.

Speaker 2 (01:26:52):
Yeah, that's good.
Then you just have that on theforefront like as a reminder.
Oh well, I already got thistaken care of if I need it.
Do you have a lot of stuff likethat too, evan, like where you
can have a backup plan?

Speaker 6 (01:27:02):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, what we generally do is we'll go
run the course you know, theactual course for the first day
and see what it looks like, andthen we'll go do the course
again, you know, on the secondday and start finding lines.
And then, by like the fourth orfifth day, you know we're
trying all these different linesand we might say, hey, for this
section we want to take allthese you know cut lines and see
how they do, make sure we hitthe VCPs and, uh, you know,

(01:27:26):
verify with the Stella thateverything's working correctly.
And you know, string it alltogether basically, but kind of
do it in segments.

Speaker 4 (01:27:32):
Yeah, that's kind of how I do it.
The the first time through.
We always stay on race courseand I like to Mark rocks and
dangers only because you're notalways able to keep your
pre-runner alive the whole time.
Yeah, so if the pre-runnerbreaks, at least I have rocks
and dangers and I'm comfortablegoing.

Speaker 6 (01:27:49):
Yeah, that's smart.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
I'll drop waypoints to check a line next time.
So I'm not always on the hunt,but I have some things to go
back to, but then I'll startlooking for flow, changing some
things, and then I'll startlooking for lines on the second
one and then the third time.
It's just like trying to get itall together, making sure

(01:28:12):
everything flows and all thedangers are right.

Speaker 6 (01:28:15):
Yeah, yeah, but you have to do.
You do anything on like GoogleEarth before.
No, you know.
I recycle my notes.
Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
Finish your sentence.
I don't think you guys can hearthe audio.
Can you hear my little voice?
I can, can you hear her?
But she's talking like a midgetright now because I pressed a
button on the thing.

Speaker 7 (01:28:37):
I am a midget.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Okay, so you guys can't hear it, so all right.
Well, all the funniness justwent away on that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:48):
So at least iTunes will be able to hear it.
Oh, he keeps changing my voiceto like a little baby, so it
just sounds funny and gives usthe giggles.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
So we're laughing over here, you guys aren't.

Speaker 4 (01:28:56):
Sorry, we're laughing at ourselves.
I'm used to that.
I want to back you up a littlebit.
You mentioned riding with Danand this isn't for dan in
particular, but how he can readterrain.
How awesome is it when you'rewith a driver who you know you,
he can read terrain and justlike put things together out of

(01:29:17):
nowhere yeah, I mean that's,that's, um, it makes the
co-driver's job a lot lessstressful.

Speaker 6 (01:29:25):
If you feel like I'll say this sometimes like when
you're in a car and you don'thave to call out notes, you know
the truck's not going to crash,that's always a good feeling
and I've ridden with some peoplewhere you have to talk the
whole time and if you feel like,oh crap, I messed up on my note
or whatever and I got to goback, or you know the gps takes
a crap.
Um, you feel like you're gonnacrash with a guy like dan.
You know the GPS takes a crap.
Um, you feel like you're goingto crash with a guy like Dan.

(01:29:46):
You know he's going to drivewhat he can see in default.
You know, I got the chance likethree years ago, three or four,
I can't remember exactly.
I should have it ingrained inmy head, but I got the chance to
ride with Rob McCacken on daytwo at Baja, nevada, um, and
Steve's office's truck and um,steve did the first day.
I rode with steve on day one,uh, day two, steve wasn't

(01:30:06):
feeling up for it, so rob uh gotin and drove day two and you
know that was definitely thehighlight of people that I've
ridden with, because you knowhe's just a professional.
I mean, there's there's not onerock that we hit and it was
pretty fun.
You know, we we were racingwith justin bean smith.
He was in the graph trophytruck and, uh, you know, it was
probably some of the most funracing I've ever done.
Um, and like it was starting torain and like I was calling out

(01:30:29):
notes, he, I think he usuallyuses Siri, but we didn't have
Siri.
I was just using, you know, theold fashioned legacy notes.
And um, yeah, uh, but no, I wasjust calling out.
You know what I could see andit was so much fun was that was
a fun race.
I enjoyed that a lot.
That was definitely a highpoint.
And then riding with caden youknow he's a great driver and you
know navigating for him.

(01:30:49):
He's got his own style andeveryone has their own style.
That's what I'm coming to findout.
You know, dustin grabowski,super easy, he'll let you.
You know you can say whateveryou want.
You can tell him right andhe'll still go left if it's a
left.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
So you know there's kind of those guys just default
yeah, they just default myexperience level again, like
I've said in the show before, islike is very limited compared
to you guys.
But I know it's exactly whatyou're saying.
I've had the opportunity toride with rob mccachren on the
short course track in a utv andthat's cool it's funny because,
like I race professional utvsfor yamaha on short course and I

(01:31:22):
thought I was a decent driver,and then I get in the car with
him and I'm just sitting thereand I go oh, now I get it he's
reading Now I understand like Imay be 10% of the caliber driver
.
I thought I actually was becausenow I see how it actually is,
Like this is how you're supposedto drive a vehicle not how you

(01:31:42):
thought you were Right, Like you.
But I to drive a vehicle nothow you thought you were right,
but I didn't know until I didn'tknow.
And it's kind of like whatyou're saying, Like you got to
experience those things.
Were those like mental gamechangers in your head.
You're like, oh, wow, Okay, nowI experienced this.
Now I can apply this to thenext navigation situation that
I'm in.

Speaker 6 (01:32:00):
Yeah, no, it's pretty amazing.
I really enjoyed.
You know, those types ofexperiences are really fun
because you know it's not everyday when you don't have as much
stress navigating, you know,when you're not prepping the car
.
I think at that point in timewe weren't quite prepping that
number six truck yet.
I think it was like the firstrace that we were prepping it.
I can't remember, but you knowthere wasn't as much stress.

(01:32:21):
We already did day one.
Everything was running great,um.
So I don't know, it's just, uh,something to think about.
You know, the Bader thing justkind of arrive and ride that
that whole deal.
So I didn't really care.
I was like, hey, if it breaks,it breaks.
And then, you know, day two,bader and I were actually doing
really well and then we lost theserpentine belt.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
No, we could see me like what the heck I would try
to beat you to every pit so Icould cheer you on.
And jeff said I saw as muchdefeat in your face as my own I
was.

Speaker 6 (01:32:50):
So I was so mad because, like, we don't have
those problems, like any of thestuff that comes out of my shop,
knock on wood, we don't have,like belt serpentine, belt
breaking, like throwing belts.
That's like a thing of the past.
If you have the proper tools,you know how to put it all
together.
It's not going to throw a belt.
And we were like I forget whatplace we're in, but we're doing
really well on day two andbader's a really good driver too
.
I mean, that's someone who'syou know, very aggressive on the

(01:33:13):
brakes.
Yes, yeah, yeah, he drives itlike a road course car.
Yeah, but he's straight linebrakes.
I get sketched out when peoplelike to you know they're driving
real fast and then they try andyawn into a corner.
I hate that.
I'm like why?
are you doing that?
Just stay straight.
Let the truck step out a littlebit.
Don't like try and flick itinto a corner.

Speaker 4 (01:33:30):
I used to tease him that I've never heard so much
screeching in the dirt like thefirst 40 miles.
He thinks he's on road, youknow, and so when you when I saw
you were with him I'm like givehim a couple miles he will
settle in, but it takes a minutebecause that's his background
yeah, but he can definitelydrive he's really aggressive.
He grunts a lot.

(01:33:50):
I always tease him about that,but he'll make it happen either
way.

Speaker 2 (01:33:54):
Yeah, yeah all right, evan, we got to get emma
cornwell on here so what areyour two most important things?
Uh, as a navigator, that youwould relay to newbies in the
navigator field.

Speaker 6 (01:34:14):
I didn't initially want to be a navigator.
Because I wanted to be anavigator, I started doing it
because we're prepping thetrucks and it's a good benefit
when you're getting into thisindustry to ride in the truck
you're prepping.
So that was kind of my wholestart with this.
It's like if I'm going to tryand bring these, know, bring
these clients into my shop and,you know, have them, trust me,
prepping their car, I'm going toput myself out there to ride
with them.
And then it just kind ofclicked.
You know, I was, I thoughtpretty decent at it and, like

(01:34:36):
you know, we had some goodsuccess racing different races
and kind of just went from there.
So for me it's not likenavigating is what I want to do,
it's just like an added bonusyou get to go ride in the car.
So if you enjoy prepping a carand it's something that you want
to do as a profession or do itin your side job on the weekends
for a race guy, start preppingthe car and then say, hey, I can

(01:34:56):
navigate for you or do a leg ofa race for you.
It's always good to havesomeone in the car that's
mechanical.
That's kind of where it startedfor me.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Yeah, I agree with that.
We haven't talked too muchabout that.
Maybe we should talk with thema little bit about that, about
getting out, changing tires anddoing all this other physical
stuff too.
Thanks, abby, I reallyappreciate it, you definitely
have to be mechanical yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:35:18):
And sometimes there's only so much you can do, but
you have to know how to do theBaja fixes.
There's only so much you can doon an engine but certain things
.

Speaker 6 (01:35:33):
If there's a will, there's a way, yeah, yeah, I
mean, if you're with a reputableteam that has good equipment,
then you don't have to bemechanical.
But it's more like gettingunstuck is a big thing, like
riding with Christian.
We've had some bottlenecksbefore that we kind of like fell
into and getting navigatedthrough a bottleneck.
That's always something.
You got to be not mechanical ina mechanic sense working on a
car, but you know being able toget out of a car and feel

(01:35:53):
confident to go.
You know walk a trail and tellsomeone where to go when there's
, you know, 12 spec trucks stuckin front of you and everyone's
just sitting there waiting foryou know someone to get unstuck.
Yeah, I think that's the, theyeah, that's the thing you got
to be able to get out.
And you know think on your toesand you know know how to get a
truck unstuck.
That's something you know I hadto deal with at the baja 500.
That wasn't fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36:14):
So yeah, that's crazy .
We could probably talk for anhour about just that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:36:18):
Um all right, yeah, well, thank you very much I
appreciate you taking the timeafter work.

Speaker 6 (01:36:22):
We'll see you yeah, after work I'm gonna go clock
back in.
We'll see you guys.
All right, thank you, have agood night.
Yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
Bye all right, let's get emma cornwell on here too.
That's actually a really gooduh uh point that he brings up is
you have to be versatile,because there's so many things
that happen not just in thepassenger seat, but helping the
race move forward.
Oh, absolutely, and that wasone of the things that happen,
not just in the passenger seat,but helping the race move
forward?

Speaker 4 (01:36:47):
oh, absolutely, and that was one of the things that
king of the hammers, hi emma,that I struggled with in the
rocks.
It was like everyone's sittingin their car yeah get out and
get that person out in front ofyou yeah, like help when you
have a five foot female thatlooks like a toddler in a helmet
come up and tell you to get outof your car and help.

(01:37:08):
It doesn't go over very well,so I just decided it wasn't for
me anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
Maybe you should wear like a mohawk and some spiked
shoulders, or something Like beall aggressive, all right.
So Emma Cornwell has been inthe passenger seat, well, and
she's driven a bunch too, andshe's driven many, many more
miles than most boys in Baja,and now is newly engaged to
Caden Wells.
So hi.

Speaker 9 (01:37:31):
Emma.

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
Cornwell, how are you ?

Speaker 9 (01:37:33):
good, how are you guys?

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
doing very well, thank you.
So where are you?

Speaker 9 (01:37:36):
at these days.
Well, right now I'm in Idaho.
I'm in a physician assistantschool, so my clinical rotations
are out here.
Uh, for the next few monthsdang, that's pretty exciting
aunt and uncle's house.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Oh really yeah nice, that's pretty cool.
Um, all right.
So the first question we'rejust going to get it out of the
way.
Um, there's not that many girlswe're obviously have erica here
too that ride in the passengerseat because it's uh, I don't
know what you want to call it Idon't want to sound like I'm
being chauvinist here, but likeit's mostly known as a guy's uh
position, right?

(01:38:09):
So, first and foremost, kudosto both of you, because both of
you guys are taking on a job ofuh, you know, doing a lot of
different things and you've hada lot of experience in it.
So, you know, I reallyappreciate that you guys are
doing it, because you guysprovide so much more of a
different angle than most peopledo.
We were talking about patienceearlier.
We were talking about workingon the trucks and cars and

(01:38:30):
different things earlier, sothere's so many more different
levels to this that we've evencovered in this show.
What are some of the thingsthat you didn't know leading up
to being a navigator?

Speaker 9 (01:38:42):
Oh man, there was a lot.
I remember I grew up watchingmy dad do it and I wanted to get
in the car and I he was workingfor score and I remember he was
walking up to Sarah, sarah andErica at the finish line.
Yeah, I'm sure it is Um at thefinish line of a score race and
they're in their spec truck andhe was like, okay, well, go ask

(01:39:04):
him questions.
Like go talk, you want to goget in the car.
Like you got to go talk to him,I was like I can't do it.
I don't even know where tobegin to ask, so I didn't know
anything, um, but yeah, I thinka lot of people think it's easy
going and fun and you just sitthere, but it's, it's a lot of
work for sure one of the thingsthat, what was one of of the
things that surprised you aboutit when you got in.

Speaker 2 (01:39:27):
Was it the speed?
Was it the relationship withthe driver?
Was it getting out and havingto change broken parts?
What did?
You were like, oh my God, thisis way different than I thought.

Speaker 9 (01:39:38):
I was expecting to have to get out of the car and I
was just willing to, and Ithink that's the big thing with.
I don't have a big backgroundin mechanics other than hanging
out in the shop like I waswilling to get out and help.
Um, but definitely stepping upinto, especially from like an na
car to the pro r, the speeddifference there and I feel like
a baby navigator.
All these people have been introphy trucks but um, the speed

(01:40:00):
difference there and adapting tothat, I think was a learning
curve for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
Yeah, it's quite a bit different, did you have like
?
Because some of those same kindof I don't know learning
experiences on your way up too.

Speaker 4 (01:40:13):
Oh, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of learning.
I started with my dad as well,and I used to just call right
and left, you know.
And then, once Sarah and Ireally started going and getting
in the truck I also have abackground in rally racing.
That's how I know Ryan Millenand how we came together Um, but

(01:40:33):
there you kind of have toimmerse yourself and really just
learn as you go.
There's so many.
I have a lot of really coolmentors that I got to learn from
on the fly.
I don't think everybody hasthat opportunity, but if you do
ask questions, I bet you asked alot of questions.

(01:40:55):
I asked a ton of questions.
I still do but there's just somany things that you don't
realize go into it and you haveto figure it out.

Speaker 9 (01:41:07):
Definitely.
It's kind of learning on thefly and I think asking your
driver like, hey, what do youwant?
And Caden's not super vocalperson in the car, but there I
was like you need to tell mewhat you want, so I know at
least, so I have an example andthen I can build off of that.
Yeah, exactly, we talked aboutbeing intuitive a little earlier
I think it was with Kyle.
Right, I know at least, so Ihave an example and then I can
build off of that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:25):
Yeah, exactly, we talked about being intuitive a
little earlier I think it waswith Kyle right and women are
more intuitive than men, nomatter what, I don't care what
anybody says.
So is that, does that make yourjob easier?
And understanding what thedriver wants and needs?

Speaker 9 (01:41:41):
I think so.
Yeah, I think it's.
It's helped in the past withother drivers and now with kate
in like not only being togetherall the time in the car and
having like thousands of milespre-running, but being together
outside of the car so often.
That definitely gives me adifferent level of, uh, being
comfortable with him and howhe's feeling and what he needs,
and you know his mood or how,how he's driving.

Speaker 2 (01:42:06):
Even in the slightest change I feel like I can kind
of pick up on it, so likehalfway through a baja 500
you're like this dude needs adurango's burrito and I gotta
crank it to taylor swift like wegotta get this party started
yeah, or I need a durango'squesadilla or whatever bowl
because I'm getting tired, and Ithink that's probably both of
our.

Speaker 9 (01:42:25):
Our biggest downfalls is the lights go out and we're
like Ooh, okay, I think it'sbedtime.
Where the 500,?
We raced the whole thing, so wecan't really get out and take a
nap when it gets dark.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
You got to crank up the Taylor Swift and get it
going, dude.

Speaker 9 (01:42:40):
Yeah, definitely, there's definitely tunes going.

Speaker 4 (01:42:43):
Yeah, and I think that's something that a lot of
navigators or people that wantto get into navigating don't
understand is you're in the car,yes, for several hours,
hundreds of miles, but itdoesn't feel like that, does it
ever feel?
Like that to you, or are youjust so busy that it just kind
of clicks along?

Speaker 9 (01:43:04):
I feel like when we're like in the hunt for the
whole race, for sure like thetime goes by so quick.
But if we kind of like have anopportunity to step it down a
notch, I'm like, oh, this is,this is nice, okay, like I'm
looking around, you know, andthen maybe the time goes by a
little quicker.

Speaker 4 (01:43:22):
But yeah, when you're really racing and pushing it,
it does not feel like 500 milesor hours on end, yeah, and then
another piece of that is I neverrealize I'm tired or I have to
pee or something's bothering me,until like a speed zone or

(01:43:43):
something.
Then you're like man, I'm tired, I'm cold.
You know I have.

Speaker 9 (01:43:45):
Man, I'm tired, I'm cold, you know I have to pee now
, you know and I don't want topee because it'll be more cold,
because it's nighttime now.

Speaker 4 (01:43:52):
Yeah, and I just feel like you speed zones are slow
but we dread them becausethey're like kind of a wake up
call, like oh my gosh, we're atmile 480, you know, or however
long, but I always feel likethey suck because you just have
your, your moment of like thissucks, but then you get back in
the dirt and you're busy and youforget about it yeah, that's

(01:44:14):
crazy to even think about,because it's like heart racing
and then all of a sudden it'slike a deep breath and then
heart racing again and a deepbreath.
It's like yeah, and at thatpoint I'm kind of like limber is
on, you're on your own.

Speaker 2 (01:44:27):
Actually we didn't talk about it too much, but I've
had the opportunity to go withyou guys, you know, with the
Wells Racing Team, and gopre-running with you guys.
That pre-running stuff, youguys take it very seriously.
But we haven't talked about thedifference between the way that
pre-running feels and the waythat the racing feels, like down
in Baja, for instance.
Right, because you justmentioned, it's nice to be able

(01:44:49):
to take in the environment, it'snice to be able to see these
things right, and I feel like alot of the people that want to
become a navigator, they'll gothrough all of these things.
But when you put the helmet onand you start going racing, it
is 100% different than what youjust did.
So, like, how do youdifferentiate that?

(01:45:09):
Like, how do you?

Speaker 9 (01:45:11):
put yourself in the race mode.
Um, I think it's similar to anyother sport where you practice
so much that, yes, it may bedifferent and it's race day and
you have to be focused and youknow there's not going to be a
break and and you have thenerves and everything else that
goes into it.
But there's a level of likeconfidence and being calm from
just seeing the course so manytimes and knowing that your

(01:45:32):
notes are dialed and knowingthat your driver knows the
course and, like Caden,memorizes it.
So it's almost refreshing toget by each little like waypoint
, if you will within the courseand be like okay, we made it
here.
Okay, we got through thatsection.
Okay, you know, I know what'scoming next and I know how to
prepare for that mentally.
How do you break it?

Speaker 4 (01:45:53):
into chunks.

Speaker 2 (01:45:54):
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing how do you
get?

Speaker 4 (01:45:56):
through the miles.

Speaker 9 (01:45:58):
Yeah, I heard you say from pit to pit earlier and I
think that's part of it.
But and I think that's part ofit but also like from kind of
almost like things in my headthat I think are dangerous
sections, or like sections thatI know I need to be really on
top of my calls.
I'm like okay, onto the next.
This is either like a wash,where it's kind of free, flowy
and fast and like I know it'snot too bad.

(01:46:20):
So I guess it just depends perrace what I've marked in my head
.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:26):
Do you guys get an idea of that?
Like when you're pre-runningyou're like, okay, this is
section one.
Section two, section three.

Speaker 4 (01:46:33):
Like, I don't think so.
I think it happens on race dayfor me.
Does it happen ahead of timefor you or do you?
Sometimes there's sectionswhere we've collectively
discussed like, well, that'skind of going to suck and we
just have to get through it.
But I think other than that.
For me it happens on the fly.

Speaker 9 (01:46:52):
Yeah, for me the most same for the most part, other
than like sections.
We've pre-ran like oh, wepre-ran this 150 miles six times
and in my head that's kind oflike its own section.
Or maybe there's a highwaycrossing or a speed zone, for
instance, or something thatbreaks it up a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:47:10):
God, there's so much to remember.
Like my brain is gettingconfused, I mean, like I'll
probably just be like wiped outtrying to understand what you
guys do after the show.
Because it's just so mindboggling how much actual
information you guys have toprocess.

Speaker 4 (01:47:25):
But I think that's the art of it it doesn't feel
like a lot when you're doing it.
It just happens.

Speaker 2 (01:47:34):
Yeah, definitely, and I think you get used to it.

Speaker 4 (01:47:38):
Yeah, I can't explain it.

Speaker 2 (01:47:41):
It starts becoming like second nature, like muscle
memory.

Speaker 4 (01:47:44):
Oh yeah, I don't ever think about like checking my
temps and all that stuff.
It just like kind of happensyeah, and I like being busy.

Speaker 9 (01:47:52):
I think I run my life busy and I think I like putting
a lot of things on my plate.
So the navigator seat is justthat.
It's, yeah, it's having a lotto do, but also, I don't know,
you're not the one drivingeither.
That's a big, that's a big taskin itself, big responsibility
has there?

Speaker 2 (01:48:07):
has there been a lot of differences between some of
the people that you've riddenwith as far as, like, how they
keep that mental focus, like,because we've had people say,
you know, trevor said get somesugars in, eat a uncrustable.
Like you know, we always makefun of Erica for Sour Patch Kids
, like all of those differentthings like.
But how do you like, on aserious level, how do you keep

(01:48:29):
the driver focused and how doyou keep yourself focused?
Because that's the main goal,right?

Speaker 9 (01:48:34):
yeah, I think a lot of it's grit, like there have
been some races where maybe it'sbeen a tough day or it's late
or something's going on.
And it's like if I'm lookingover and Caden's still driving
fully, like like I know it sucks, I know we're both tired, but
if I look over and he's at 100%,I'm like okay, well, there's no
way I can quit.

(01:48:55):
I can't sit here and be weakbecause I have to be strong for
him, because it sucks just asbad for him.
Um, but I think checking in andbeing like hey, you good, or I
think somebody else earlier withsaying like you know,
applauding them, or being likehey.

Speaker 2 (01:49:15):
Emma, we're having a little bit of trouble with your
audio right now, but yeah, she'sright, like because you're
you're kind of still no matterwhat, you're kind of still
making sure that the operationsare running and checking your
oil, so to speak, with thedriver and yourself the entire
time, right.
So thank you very much.
Johnny K he said two-hour showso far and good information the
whole time.

(01:49:35):
Great job.
And Michael Gissom like yeah, Icouldn't co-drive either.
Hats off to all these peoplethat do it right, like.
That's why I'm asking so manyquestions is because I'm so
interested and I'm so I don'tknow, I'm really like
dumbfounded because my braincan't operate the same way as
you guys.
Like I can't process that muchinformation.
I don't know how you guys do it.

Speaker 4 (01:49:56):
It just doesn't feel like it.
And johnny k, who you wereresponding to, he's he used to
navigate for the park houses.
He's a really good navigatorand he knows his stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:50:06):
And Michael Gissom said Emma, the energy of an
amazing navigator or co-drivermakes all the difference in the
world.
So it's kind of what you weretalking about before.

Speaker 9 (01:50:19):
Sorry guys, my phone is glitching out.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
My mom is calling me, that's okay we can hear you now
, so did you hear what I?
Just said though michael gissand said the energy of an
amazing navigator or co-drivermakes all the difference in the
world.
Oh, we can't hear.
Brothers there you go oh hello.

Speaker 9 (01:50:39):
Hi Hi, sorry, not my fault.

Speaker 2 (01:50:46):
Were you able to hear what.

Speaker 9 (01:50:47):
I said I heard you say Michael's comment.
Was there a question attachedto it, no.

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
I mean, he did like the OK.
Actually there is a question,it's from me how, how important
is it to be the hype man in theright seat.

Speaker 9 (01:51:04):
I think it's pretty important.
I feel like they can get so intheir head over there just
staring ahead, being superfocused the whole time.
I think it's really importantto like keep the energy up and
make it fun, because that that'swhy we're there ultimately.
I mean, very few people make itas a full-time career and make
a livelihood out of it.
So we're all super competitiveand we want to win, but we got

(01:51:27):
to keep it fun sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:51:29):
Are you able to do that?
Oh yeah, there's times whereyou can't do that.
You're going to have to answerthis.
Everybody that's listening onInstagram can't hear her, her,
but she sounds like a midget inour phone.
So if you're gonna go and checkout itunes, mike just gave me
the code word oklahoma to makeerica talk like a midget on
itunes.

Speaker 3 (01:51:49):
So please go check it on itunes.
That's funny.
Okay, I'm gonna try to getthrough this.
I feel like when you're tryingto be a hit man or a hype man
sorry, this is weird.
There's terms Like if you saygo, the driver's like all right,

(01:52:12):
I'll go, but if you're like go,go, go, they're more likely to
just go and get that race going.
You know like they're going topick it up.

Speaker 2 (01:52:20):
Yeah, because it's a little bit extra.
Yeah, yeah, I got you so youcan set the tone.

Speaker 3 (01:52:26):
But if you're kind of like boring, they're just,
they're gonna just kind of getthrough it.

Speaker 2 (01:52:32):
I can agree with that and sean geyser, like you're
mirroring what I've been sayingthis whole time.
He's he just commented in andsaid the real heroes are the
navigators.
They have to call notes all daybut also have to keep uh the
hype flowing.
And I don't disagree with anyof that stuff and I will till my
dying day I will say howimportant the navigators are to

(01:52:54):
any race team.
Always uh and kudos to the guysthat don't have a navigator.
Like Blaine Conrad.
He drives a single seat buggy.
It's just insane right, but theamount of stuff that you guys
have to deal with is just insane.
Me, for instance, I can't evenkeep focused enough to look at
the Lawrence and guide my ownway, let alone tell the driver

(01:53:17):
where to go.

Speaker 4 (01:53:18):
It's easier when you're busy.
If I'm so, I'll go withsomebody in a car and I'm just
sitting there and I'm kind of onedge the whole time, I'll be
honest.
But when I'm busy and racinglike I know what's coming, I
know how the car is going toreact.
If you know how your driverdrives, that's also a bonus
because you're more comfortable.
You know like they're good inthis stuff.

(01:53:39):
I can relax or I might need tobrace myself a little bit here,
but when you're busy it's cake,it's so easy.

Speaker 2 (01:53:48):
Well, let's talk about a completely different
subject then.
So, first and foremost,congratulations to you and Caden
for taking the next step inyour guys' relationship.
I can't wait till you guys tiethe knot.
But there's a lot of husbandand wife teams or boyfriend and
girlfriend teams that operatejust at a normal level.
They do a fantastic job, right?
Is that more difficult or lessdifficult, do you think, than,

(01:54:11):
let's just say, a hirednavigator for a professional
race team or the husband andwife guys?

Speaker 9 (01:54:19):
I?
I don't know, that's a greatquestion.
I haven't been really like ahired navigator for a
professional team.
I've navigated for other peopleother than caden, um, just kind
of my uncle firstly, and thenlike once with once or twice
with other people, um,navigating for my uncle again,
that was family, so there wasn't.

(01:54:40):
There was familiarity there.
Um, and navigating for Caden,there's like, I think, a
different level.
But when we get in the car Itold him from the get-go I'm
like, when I get in the car, I'mnot Emma, I'm not the girl you
have a crush on you think's cute, da, da, da.
Like I made up some name, Ithink it was a manual.
I'm like I'm a dude in the car,like just treat me like another
guy in the car, yeah, um.

Speaker 2 (01:55:02):
So I don't know, maybe maybe we are just like any
other navigator, coach ordriver navigator, but I mean
realistically probably not well,I just think it's cool right,
because, like we always talkedabout it, the reason that we
started the dirt life show isbecause off-road has this huge,
uh, camaraderie aspect and loveand caring, and being out in the

(01:55:23):
desert just brings you to adifferent level in your human
capacity and your soul and allthis stuff right.
And that's where it all starts,right, you just want to go
racing and then all of a suddenit turns into either a
professional winningcharacteristics or a
professional job or whatever itis.
But along that whole path thereis tons and tons of families
that do it and it's brother,sister navigating, mother and

(01:55:45):
father navigating, you know,husband and wife with no kid,
whatever, it is right.
And all of these things,whether they get along in that
race or not, bring the familiescloser together.
I think it's great that youguys are doing it and I really
just I don't even know what I'msaying, but I understand that
every piece of it like makes myheart feel good and I know that
it makes your guys's heart feelgood when you guys get out of

(01:56:07):
the car.

Speaker 9 (01:56:08):
Yeah, 100%.
It's so special to have, like,my dad up there on the podium.
It's a little special becausehe works for score so he can be
right there, but typically myuncle will be there.
Caden's entire family is thereand that's one big thing.
I'm marrying into the bestfamily I could be and really our
two families have come togetherover this, which has been

(01:56:31):
amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
That's pretty cool to see, don't you think?

Speaker 4 (01:56:34):
Oh, I love it.
I met my husband because hewanted me to co-drive for him in
Raleigh, and now we're marriedand I did race a UTV race with
him and once you get in thatseat it's fun.
You know each other so well andit's like, oh, we get to do this
for fun together, you know, andI race with my brother and we

(01:56:56):
have the best time together.
James and I play the whole timeI have to.
He tries to get me to look attrees and stuff and I'm like,
dude, we're racing, I can't getlost, but um, but I think it's
fun.
It adds another element of fun.
Could I race with my dad?
Would be a different question.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
So you pick your family members is what you're
saying?

Speaker 4 (01:57:16):
that you want to race I haven't raced with my dad
since I've started navigatingprofessionally.
Um, we've wanted to nerf my dadso bad, but we've never
actually gotten to like outrightpass each other.
Um, and he wanted me to racenora with him and I was a little
bit weary.
I didn't get to race nora withhim, uh, but I was kind of like

(01:57:38):
do you think I could do this?
Is he going to get mad at me?
Is it easier for him to get madat me?
Or is it something we're goingto naturally be able to throw
away, like we do with everyoneelse?
You know, and I think itdepends, what's your
relationship like?

Speaker 2 (01:57:53):
Yeah, and it probably makes it even stronger.
So Michael Gessom just saidthere's so much emotion in these
long races, and especially atthe finish line.
Obviously you share that withthe others and it's super
special.
But, um, and then well, johnnyk, he also said you know you got
to keep it loose, but that'sthe whole way, right, like
that's the whole entire piece ofit.

Speaker 9 (01:58:10):
You do all of that from the day you start
pre-running until the time youcross the finish line and then
cross the border or wherever itis that you're racing back to
your house, right, and that'swhat the whole soulful feeling
is definitely it's the, it's theentire thing, and the main goal
is definitely be able to getback home to the rest of your
family and say, okay, weaccomplished it and we did it

(01:58:32):
safely and it was fun and I hadfun doing it fun is a loose term
here, right?

Speaker 4 (01:58:39):
So the last 50 miles of every race.
I think I kind of like askmyself why the heck I do this.
It could be a 100-mile race andthe last 50 miles I'm like I
hate this.
Why do I do?

Speaker 9 (01:58:51):
this, this is tough.

Speaker 2 (01:58:52):
Yeah, and then the term fun is not there anymore.
Or when you go through a treeand the tree's hanging on you
and you have to throw it out thewindow.
That's just nav life.

Speaker 4 (01:59:02):
But then like a day or two later I'm like, yeah,
that was fun.

Speaker 9 (01:59:08):
That was fun.
The adrenaline was really greatyeah.

Speaker 4 (01:59:11):
Yeah, the adrenaline.
And the last 50 miles there'sno adrenaline.
You're just ready to get to thefinish line.
So that was one thing I waswondering.
Do just ready to get to thefinish line.
So yeah, that was one thing Iwas wondering do you hit?
That wall of 50 miles, or doyou?

Speaker 9 (01:59:24):
have a different wall .
No, I definitely hit about 50miles when you're coming back
into Ensenada and you hit Ojosand then you do that section
that you already did on the wayout.
At the start I'm like, do Ireally have to do this again,
like I already did?
This, I really don't want toyeah yeah, that's awesome yeah,
what about?

Speaker 2 (01:59:42):
have you?
Have you and caden ever talkedabout doing like uh, let's just
say a uh, a non-points payingrace, like uh, I don't know,
just some sort of local race inthe united states, let's just
say in utah, nevada, and havingyou drive and having him
co-drive?

Speaker 9 (01:59:59):
I don't know man, I don't know.
He's a really good teacher.
In the passenger seat We'vebrought up the powder puff race,
but honestly, I've been superbusy with school and he's out
building houses, so timing is alittle tough right now, but
maybe in the future I think itwould be fun.
I would more want him to coachme and be like okay, this is

(02:00:22):
what I do in this situation.
Like okay, then maybe I can goas fast as you.
But I know off the get-gothere's no way I'm going to be
as fast as him.
Like I don't care how manytimes I'm in the passenger seat
and I think I know, oh, like heshould drive it like this,
there's way I know off the bathow to do it myself.

Speaker 2 (02:00:36):
Yeah, but that would just be super cool.
Would you and Mike do it?

Speaker 4 (02:00:40):
I think he would probably do it.

Speaker 2 (02:00:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:00:43):
But back to like being as good as the drivers.
Right, I had this conversationwith Ryan that I would probably
suck as a driver.
I'm not as confident.
I know what it should feel like.
Can I do it myself?
I don't know, but I can tellyou how to do it, from the
driver's seat or from thepassenger seat, and I can tell

(02:01:04):
you what you did.
I can be bossy all the way, ohyeah, by the feeling of it all.
But can I do it myself?
I don't know.
I don't think so, and that'ssomething that I think drivers
know what they want to hear,navigating or how it works, but
can they navigate?
And I think that's somethingthat, if you look at it as a

(02:01:25):
whole, like we have our officesand we stay in it.

Speaker 2 (02:01:28):
Yeah, that's why I've been saying this whole time
like I'll stay in my lane and Ialready know that I'm not the
greatest driver anymore but likeI don't want to sit in the
passenger seat because I'm wayworse at that, like, so I know
exactly what you're talkingabout.
Hey, so I'm going to do alittle plug real quick for Maxis
.
So you guys were talking aboutthe last leg of the race At the
Vegas Arena race.
Maxis is going to be putting up$10,000 for the fastest last

(02:01:51):
segment from pit 13 to thefinish line for anybody that
gets there.
So that kind of changes if youand you don't even have to be a
Maxis sponsored athlete.
So it kind of changes yourwhole race, right, because now
you have to get to at least pit13 to take home some cash.

Speaker 4 (02:02:04):
Yeah, but that is gnarly.
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
So you got to make it at least whatever 600 miles
before you get there, or howevermany miles it is.
But that last segment, they'regoing to be able to give away
$10,000 cash.
So please go check out theMax's social media page and get
information on what classesthey're going to offer that to.
If you didn't qualify for it,you better make it to pit 13 and
then just smash the pedal.

Speaker 9 (02:02:26):
That's awesome.
That'll be a fun race.
Yeah, those last 13 to thefinish will be really fun,
especially if you're battlingwith someone.
I just did that at a snore raceand that was probably the
fastest 10 miles of my my life.
It was amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:02:40):
It was so fun, yeah I mean, with 30 miles to go right
, there's not much to lose.
So you just gotta get on thegas the only thing about that
last 30 miles is it's all rocks,right you have.

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
You have a little bit of like windy roads going up
there and then it's rocks and hesaid it basically starts where
there's that party in the, inthe on the top of the hill, and
then you just bomb and thenjust's rocks.
He said it basically startswhere there's that party on the
top of the hill and then youjust bomb and then just go for
it.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:03:04):
Yeah, there's a cliff .
You can throw it away prettyeasily in some places, but I
think that's a really cool thingto do.
More sponsors should do stufflike that.
Segments, that's cool.

Speaker 2 (02:03:14):
So thanks to Maxis for offering that.
Go check out the Maxis socialmedia page and check it out and
see if your classes getqualified for that.
So, Emma, what is your favoritething about navigating?
And then what's your first?

Speaker 9 (02:03:28):
tip that you would give to some newbies.
My favorite part is getting togo on this like fun ride with an
amazing driver and go fast.
And like a real life rollercoaster, the adrenaline,
everything about it.
I love it.
And my tip for first termnavigator would be like if you
were to close your eyes and tryto figure out how to navigate
through a course and you werewondering like, well, what's

(02:03:50):
coming up next?
Or like, is it, what kind of aturn, is it?
Or are there rocks?
If you're having thesequestions or you're looking at
the GPS wondering like, oh, Iwonder what's coming up next.
Well, then your driver probablyis too, if they can't see or if
they're in dust or something.
So you know, sometimes the moreinformation isn't always the
best, but for the most part itprobably.
It's probably helping them outif they, if you're clear and

(02:04:12):
they can understand what you'resaying.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
Rambling's not really great, but Talking about snacks
when you're going 150 miles anhour and there's a corner coming
up.

Speaker 9 (02:04:22):
Yeah, make sure you call the corner before the snack
.

Speaker 4 (02:04:25):
It happens and you have to be like hold on, there's
a corner coming, exactly yeah,I have to get this note out
really quick.

Speaker 2 (02:04:30):
Okay, now continue All right, well, thank you very
much for joining us.
We'll let you get back to allyour stuff that you got going on
and congratulations on all yourstuff that you got going on,
hey, and congratulations on allyour school and stuff.
I know it's hard to pushthrough it all, but you're doing
a great job, so keep it going.

Speaker 9 (02:04:42):
Heck.
Yeah, oh, thank you, Iappreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:44):
All right, we'll see you later, emma.

Speaker 9 (02:04:45):
Okay, see you guys, you might have to walk me
through how to Okay.

Speaker 2 (02:04:57):
Just click it once, and then is the bomb, and then
we're going to wind down theshow in a little bit, so let's
get.
Josh on.
Do you know, josh?

Speaker 4 (02:05:08):
Yeah, I worked with Josh a little bit trading him.

Speaker 2 (02:05:12):
Really yeah, was he a good student.

Speaker 4 (02:05:15):
Heck yeah, he wants to learn, he's hungry to learn,
he's hungry to get in that seat.

Speaker 2 (02:05:20):
Yeah, student heck.
Yeah, he wants to learn, he'shungry to learn, he's hungry to
get in that seat.
Yeah, what's up rob, how's itgoing guys?
Josh, felix, what's up man?
So, uh, josh has been in abunch of different uh vehicles,
helped with all kinds ofdifferent teams, but uh, most
notably, people would probablyknow him for uh class 11 type
stuff.
But uh, what's up, josh?
How are you?

Speaker 5 (02:05:39):
good, I'm a little nervous.
You guys put me against afterall these great people don't be
nervous, you're your.
You're your own league yeah,exactly yeah you're josh felix,
the people's oh god, thepeople's champ um, and so give
us a little bit of a backstoryon how you got involved in
off-road, and then we'll startasking some navigator questions

(02:06:02):
so I started racing about fiveyears ago I bought a ride in a
class 11 and um, then I went andbought a car, I started racing
and it just somebody needed aco-driver and um, I kind of
utilized my driving the littlebit I had as to kind of utilize
my driving the little bit I hadas to kind of guiding, and I
barely learned the GPS.

(02:06:23):
What, maybe a year ago, erica,was it a?

Speaker 4 (02:06:26):
whole year ago.
I don't even know if it was ayear ago.

Speaker 5 (02:06:28):
Yeah, exactly.
So it's been a lot of gettingin trucks and like, hey, can you
set up the GPS for me?
And just going from there.

Speaker 2 (02:06:39):
Well, there's always an upward curve right, and then
they is yeah as long as you'rewilling in to put, willing to
put in the work, then you'regoing to reach your goals.
And are you already there?
You still have more goals toreach.

Speaker 5 (02:06:50):
No, I want to keep pushing all the all the old
goals have been met, so, uh,we're putting new goals, you
know does that?
Mean that you're going.

Speaker 2 (02:06:57):
You're going to uh, stay in the mean that you're
going to stay in the passengerseat.
Are you going to get in thedriver's seat some more?
Are you going to share?
Are you going to do both?

Speaker 5 (02:07:03):
Well, hopefully get more seat time driving.
That's the goal.
Right now we have nothing.
The Vegas to Reno I had to pullout of that.
We're building a new car forNitro Cross, so hopefully we'll
be back at the california 300.
I'll be there with cowboy, sothat that'll be back in the seat

(02:07:24):
co-driver seat with him okay,cool.

Speaker 2 (02:07:27):
Well, what I hope is uh, we just had a conversation
with uh cowboy and nicole.
There's a little thing that'sgonna have a little computer on
board, a starlink and somecameras so we get to be able to
sit inside the car with you guysand actually watch the trip.

Speaker 7 (02:07:42):
That'll be pretty cool.
It'll be good, yeah, so we'llget to see.

Speaker 2 (02:07:45):
So you got to hold yourself fully accountable as to
how good of a navigator you'regoing to be.

Speaker 5 (02:07:49):
Yeah, that would do good.
Cowboy does good in there.
He doesn't talk much.
I like to hear somebody talk tome as I drive, so I try to
implement that.
Whether they listen to me ornot, that's you know, that's
their decision.
But usually Cowboy just kind ofnods his head and does what
he's got to do, you know so.

Speaker 2 (02:08:06):
Yeah, so give us a little bit of a breakdown on
that.
Erica, you guys can have a goodconversation about this, but do
you have different stylesdepending on who you who's you
know, car you're sitting?

Speaker 5 (02:08:23):
in like are you going to talk the whole time if
catwood doesn't want to?
You know, somebody doesn't wantyou to be talking the whole
time.
Like how do you navigate that?
Uh, I think they've mentionedearlier just kind of fill out
the person.
Like there's certain people Iride with roy tompkins and uh,
it's funny, man roy just havelike a nonchalant conversation
the whole race and then middleof the conversation, like nighty
you know, and then opens up atthe end and then we go back to
our conversation about Chinesefood or whatever we got going on

(02:08:44):
at the moment.

Speaker 2 (02:08:45):
Have you had, like you just have casual
conversation the whole time, orlike Not really.

Speaker 4 (02:08:53):
Yeah, I'm kind of adamant about going with drivers
that want my help and want meto you know, call because
otherwise, like I said, I'm kindof bored, or you know, and or I
realize I'm tired and I got apiece of white.
I enjoy being busy and callingout everything I can um yeah but
I think to each their own itdriver.

(02:09:14):
Some drivers need nothing, somedrivers need it all.
So I think it.

Speaker 2 (02:09:18):
It just varies yeah, it's kind of crazy to think
about that because, like, aswe've progressed throughout this
show, um, I've thought abouteverything that josh is saying
right now too.
Like I've thought, okay, wouldI want somebody calling in my
ear the whole time, would I wantsomebody to just be quiet the
whole time?
Would I want somebody to have acasual conversation with me to
break up the monotony of therace?
And I, I don't know, like Ireally don't yeah, and I think

(02:09:42):
it depends.

Speaker 4 (02:09:43):
Are you giving the driver what the driver wants,
like sometimes if you're notcalling enough detail or
different things?
And this is nothing against you, josh, it's just kind of my
experience is um, like sarah andI, when we first started I was
just calling like easy, medium,hard, right.
She told me too muchinformation.
By the time I was like kind ofhad her trained in rally style,

(02:10:08):
because that's one of mybackgrounds, like I mentioned.
I'm pretty into that.
She'll take a book with everycorner, like she wants to know
if there's something insideoutside corner opens, tightens,
is.
Is it short?
Is it back to back?
You know, and if, if you'rejust going in corner, but now
there's another corner, they'relike, well, where the heck was

(02:10:29):
that, you know?
And then at that point they'relike I can't just listen to half
and drive whole right um andkind of what emma stepped on a
little bit ago was if you hadyour eyes closed and wondered
you know what's next, what'snext, what's next.
So if you think about it thatway, you're giving them

(02:10:51):
something to visualize whilethey're driving right.
You're telling them this, tothis, to this, you're telling
them this to this, to this.
So, if you're able to give thema whole picture instead of you
know, part of a picture, somepeople only want part of the
picture.
Some people want the wholepainting, you know.
So it kind of depends on whatyour driver wants.

Speaker 5 (02:11:11):
Yeah, and it's.
It's grown since then, you knowit's.
It's changed Like.
Now I try to give people what Iwould want to hear.
Right, I want to know what thenext corner is going to be after
this corner.
Does it open, Does it tighten,Kind of like what you're saying?
But that's where I started.
You know started and it'sgotten better.
You know, and you're alwaystrying to get better.

(02:11:32):
Recently I got to pre-run withToby and Bo Brent for the 500
for think, four days in theArmada KT01 and I got to learn a
lot.
That was really.
That was pretty intense.
You know those guys.
It is impressive what they dofor pre-running.

Speaker 2 (02:11:48):
I mean it is mind-boggling how much they work
, but work they put in, you meanyeah, it's.

Speaker 5 (02:11:53):
I mean I thought I was in the third seat for just
learning.
They had me out there with apick and shovel, you know like,
oh yeah, these guys, I mean itwas serious, I mean it was.

Speaker 4 (02:12:02):
It was good, though sauce.

Speaker 5 (02:12:04):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, exactly, it was wild.
You know I loved your help yeah, it was, it was.
It was good, though it wasenlightening.
How's that, you know, like youthink they're just out there in
an air-conditioned truckcruising.
I mean, they're putting in work, you know yeah totally, and it
showed, and it showed, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:12:21):
Yeah, now that you guys are, saying that I think
you guys kind of cleared it upfor me.
Like I would probably like moreof the way that you taught
sarah.
Like I would like, let's justsay, medium left coming up, two
ruts, rock on the uh inside rut,stay up high or whatever.

Speaker 4 (02:12:35):
Like I would like all those details probably yeah, so
if you, if you have it, you'regoing to like it.
Uh, that's something that Ryanand I we we have a similar
background but we do thingsdifferent.
He does one through seven.
So I had to calibrate, um, andhe was like I'll do it your way
and I'm like, no, I'm here towork for you, I'll do it your
way.
So I had some calibration to do.

(02:12:56):
Luckily, my calls are a numberlower instead of a number higher
, but I had to change.
He likes the speed first, thenthe direction.
I usually call a left six.
He would want a six left.
So, yeah, you're calibrating.
But also sometimes I learned alot from him.

(02:13:20):
But I used to call corners intwos if they're back to back,
and he taught me if there's kindof a straight or a pause to
call an, and so it'd be like aleft four and right two or
something.
So there's there's so manydifferent ways of doing it and
learning it that right, exactlytrying to either teach a new

(02:13:41):
driver um a different way orlearning a driver's way is it's
so fun and it's part of theadded challenge dude, that is
right.

Speaker 2 (02:13:51):
Have you noticed the same things, josh?

Speaker 5 (02:13:53):
yeah, and then, uh, not only that, but a big thing I
think is meshing with thedriver.
Like you have to let there'speople like I had to call off
and say you know, it's not goingto work out.
I don't think it's best for usto be together in the truck,
cause we just we don't, we don'tmesh, we don't, we don't think
the same.
It's kind of like a how couldyou put it?

(02:14:13):
Like not a butting of heads,but you just don't flow together
.
You know and yeah it's betterto fight the court.
Yeah, exactly, you know.
So there's been thosesituations.
But it's really awesome whenyou mesh, like erica saying, and
the other drivers like you canalmost like grunt and they know
what you're talking about, youknow, like, and they know what
to do.

Speaker 2 (02:14:32):
You know it's, it's it's almost like situations like
yeah it.

Speaker 5 (02:14:37):
It's almost like intimacy.
You know it sounds creepy, butyou know in.
In reality it's like you guysjust know what you're talking
about.
Both of you understand thedriver to say yep or not.
His head or?

Speaker 4 (02:14:47):
just make it happen.
You know, I say it's anintimate relationship, obviously
nothing sexual, but just theway that you communicate, and
also you have to think likeyou're the only two that went
through it together, the way youdid the car before you didn't
do it the exact same way you did.

Speaker 5 (02:15:03):
Right, well, you're connected.

Speaker 4 (02:15:05):
Yeah, you have to.
You're kind of like a littlemarried couple for a few days.
You just have to make it work.

Speaker 2 (02:15:12):
Yeah it's right, exactly.
It's pretty crazy and then.
So one thing that I was goingto ask you is, since you have so
much experience in the class 11stuff, um, what's some of the
other trucks?
Because you've ridden in atruck, obviously as well.
Like, what do you have to do tobe able to tune yourself to
make sure that you're satisfyingthe driver if you're going at
different speeds or you'relistening to a different car,

(02:15:35):
like those types of things?
Because I feel like that'sadded a whole nother level of
complexity.

Speaker 5 (02:15:40):
Yeah, I think it's a lot of.
It's relevant.
Like most people think, a class11 and a trucker really far off
.
I think they are in speed, butwhen you're in them they feel
very similar.
You know cause.
You got six inches of travel,you're doing 40, you know you
got two feet of travel, you'redoing a hundred.
But um, it's a lot more seriousin the truck.

(02:16:02):
You know a lot more.
It's business.
You need to be on your gamebecause it's a lot more
dangerous, you know.

Speaker 2 (02:16:07):
Yeah, you make a mistake.
Going 140 miles an hour,there's not much gonna.

Speaker 5 (02:16:12):
Uh, yeah, so you know try not to take yeah, try not
to take a selfie, you know, uh,you know, yeah, yeah, right, try
to watch your jokes.
Try to make sure you don'tconfuse them with a, you know, a
goofy comment.
So I, I, you know, I try tominimize that kind of stuff yeah
.

Speaker 2 (02:16:31):
So we just had a comment come in from lucas hand
and I think this comment is alittle aggressive, but I
actually really do like it.
So he said the sad part is mostdrivers and co-drivers can't
survive without electronics andmost can't read terrain.
So I won't disagree completelywith that.
But I will throw a caveat intothat.
There has been many, many timeswhen I've seen people cross the

(02:16:52):
finish line with no radiocommunication and no electronics
being used because it went outat the first portion of the race
, and I'm not saying thishappens frequently because I
don't want to bag on any ofthese companies, but there's
different things that happen inoff-road racing, that it happens
more than you think, and thesepeople get along with just hand
signals, just like stop signal,all kinds of different things

(02:17:16):
smack your driver for a danger,whatever it is to get to the
finish line.
So I'll argue that point and Iwill agree with that point, but
I think it's a good topic ofconversation.

Speaker 4 (02:17:26):
Yeah, I'm going to agree to disagree here.
I think racing has evolved tothe point of having to use your
electronics.
I've definitely had a GPS goout electronics.
I've definitely had a GPS goout.
If anybody watched my in-car atthe start of the 500, my GPS

(02:17:49):
antenna literally took crap onthe start line and I was like
all right, ryan, I'm just goingto try to like move it along as
I know that we're going.
It's not going to be precise,but I'm going to have to deal
with it.
Radios go out more than we liketo admit, but that's part of
rolling with the punches.
But I think now racing hasgotten so competitive I've raced
one of my teammates and lost bythree seconds at the end of the

(02:18:12):
Baja 500.
That comes down to corners,corner speed, trusting your
driver, trusting your navigatorand being able to click and get
that flow and just get moving.
Because going up Mike's SkyRanch and not having the right
notes, not having you know thetrust in each other, if you're

(02:18:34):
checking up over a crest, wheresomeone is setting up over a
crest, that's a tenth a second.
It could be a half a second.
Now you have to get that speedback.
So now you've extended thatlittle tiny break into a longer
thing.
So think about how long theroad is to Mike's Sky Ranch Road
and you can gain seconds or youcan lose seconds.

(02:18:58):
So yeah, we do rely on ourelectronics a lot, but we've
figured out how to use them tothe best extent.

Speaker 2 (02:19:07):
And how do you feel about that, like, what do you do
to overcome stuff like thatwhen you have issues come up?
Josh?

Speaker 5 (02:19:14):
We actually there's been numerous times in the bugs
and limited cars the radios goout, but it's not catastrophic
like a truck, like erica says atmike's or something that's.
You know, that's a lot of speed, um, just keep pushing, you
know?
Uh, barstow, we got in a truckand I got there that night and
we went to take off, had nocomms we had.

(02:19:34):
So I had to learn like handsignals real quick, learn sign
language to tell the guy youknow.
And we made it work.
You know, I mean you're notcompetitive but you're out there
doing it.

Speaker 2 (02:19:44):
So yeah, exactly.
It's so crazy to think likethat's how it used to be, though
, yeah, right.

Speaker 5 (02:19:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:19:50):
But you also had like sticks for suspension and stuff
.

Speaker 2 (02:19:53):
Yeah, that's true Right Speed was maybe 80.

Speaker 5 (02:20:05):
Well, I always make fun of the class 11 guys.
They basically have sticks forsuspension guys still, yeah, I
mean, you know we're pushing,you know we hit 96 miles an hour
, like three years ago at theman on the lake bed.

Speaker 3 (02:20:10):
Yeah, that was scary dude that's so cool yeah, just
did an applause on the.

Speaker 2 (02:20:13):
On the audio, so on itunes if you want to see it.
We just yeah, that's cool man.
Do you have any experiencesthat, uh, that you've had?
Where you were, just like uh,we talked to a bunch of people
like you're just gelling.

Speaker 5 (02:20:26):
You were in the zone with your driver yeah, I'm
trying to think we raced the nor1000 with carrie chrisman in
the armada kt01 and a lot ofthat race was like that.
A lot of those days it was justkind of like I was calling out
notes and he was just kind offlowing and there was no
conversation.
It was just kind of I wasbusiness and he was doing it and

(02:20:49):
you know, like, like Erica said, he would be 90 tight, uh,
opens up and then it kicks back,you know.
So he already knew what wascoming and that was probably one
of my better experiences as aco-driver, I think, just kind of
giving him what he needed tohear and him implementing it.

Speaker 2 (02:21:05):
Yeah, it feels like he's your other set of arms A
little bit yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:21:12):
Yeah, and if we go back to not having a radio, like
you said you kind of had tolearn sign language radio, like
you said you kind of had tolearn sign language.
The crazy part is you thinkabout a UTV versus a trophy
truck and the width of thecockpit, right.
So in a UTV you're as close asGeorge and I, but in a truck

(02:21:32):
we're pretty far apart and sosometimes my arms don't really
make it over there, especiallyyours, yeah, so.
I loosen up my belts or whateverand you just got to make it
happen.
And that's what's so fun aboutoff-road racing it never goes
100% your way.
You just got to make it happen.

Speaker 5 (02:21:54):
Right, exactly that's the challenge.

Speaker 2 (02:21:56):
That's why we do it, so we didn't get to talk about
it too much with Emmama like wewere supposed to, but, um, I
wanted to ask josh, so how doyou feel about, like, when you
have to get out of the carbecause it's not a navigator per
se now, you're a mechanic like,and you guys both have to do
this?
You've been faced millions oftimes lifting a 40 inch tire in
a truck like that's just insaneto me 40s well, I'll change a 40

(02:22:18):
over a 35 on a UTV all day.

Speaker 5 (02:22:22):
The 40 is tall as Erica.
I don't know how she does it.

Speaker 4 (02:22:24):
Well, there's the spindle snout, it's the little
extension.

Speaker 2 (02:22:27):
Yeah, that actually does help quite a bit.

Speaker 4 (02:22:29):
The hub has the extension.
You just plop it on and twistit and push.
You don't have to line up allthe studs.

Speaker 2 (02:22:35):
Like the UTV.
Yeah, give me a 40, don't giveme a 35 on a utv, but okay.
So I'll ask this specificquestion to you then, josh.
So yes, you get a flat tire,you break a shock, you lose a
driveshaft or whatever.
Is it like?
All right, navigator changesinto mechanic.
How do you switch gears quicklyto make sure you execute on the
job when you get out of thetruck or car?

Speaker 5 (02:22:57):
um, try to know where everything's at prior.
Um, I'm not the greatestmechanic but I can all those
items.
I can pretty much figure outfor the most part.
Um, I know, two years ago atthe man we had to change the
third member and uh, roy tellsme, hey, pull a drive plate.
So I grab some tools, you know,and I ask him like what's a
drive plate?
You know I don't know anything.

(02:23:18):
And I asked him like what's adrive plate?
You know, I don't know anythingabout trucks.
It was pretty comical in themonth.
We both started laughing, youknow.

Speaker 2 (02:23:25):
But yeah, um, but you learned other than that yeah,
we got it done.
Yeah, we got it done, wefinished so yeah like I I think
it's, I think it's wild to beable to, to do both right, like
I mean.

Speaker 4 (02:23:37):
You've been faced with situations like that you
have to be at least somewhatmechanical right, there's so
much you can do in somecircumstances, but I've always
wanted to use a wrench as a tierod and I got to do that once
and it's a lot it takes a lotout of you, because sometimes
your fix doesn't always work,and so you got to do it again.

(02:24:00):
Um right there's, there's somany things that go into it.
But and I kind of touched on itearlier, I think it was with uh
trevor when, when both of youare out of the car, because
there's times where driverdoesn't have to get out,
obviously navigator is the firstone out to assess and then

(02:24:21):
driver will get out Um, butthere's times where where the
situation is just so frustratingand you're kind of losing sight
of it or you're just kind ofover it, making more mistakes
because you're in a hurry, rightwhen Sarah and I would just
switch, it's like hey, I see ita different way.

(02:24:41):
You're really frustrated, getout of there, it's my turn.
And then that's kind of how weworked together.

Speaker 2 (02:24:46):
Teamwork.

Speaker 4 (02:24:47):
And I think that's how Ryan and I would work
together.
He's a great mechanic as wellas he's a good driver, but I
think that's the key for workingon things.
Yeah, if you have a driver thatdoesn't know anything and
you're really good at it, you'reprobably going to do the whole
thing because speed-wise,knowledge-wise, you're just

(02:25:08):
going to get it done that muchbetter.
But if you're able to switchoff and not be frustrated, make
less mistakes, I highlyrecommend that.

Speaker 5 (02:25:17):
Yeah absolutely yeah, figuring it out, you got to
figure it out, you know, andthat's the key other right well,
and you're also that's kind ofin the middle of the desert too.

Speaker 4 (02:25:26):
Yeah, that's what it means, so sometimes you have to
make weird fixes just to get acouple miles.
Sarah and I had to fix a driveshaft with hose clamps just to
get out of the racetrack.
You know, and it wasn't, weknew it wasn't gonna get us far,
but we needed to get out of theracetrack.
You know, and it wasn't, weknew it wasn't gonna get us far,
but we needed to get out ofracetrack.

Speaker 2 (02:25:43):
So we made it happen, got out of racetrack have you
ever had any weird shit likethat, josh?

Speaker 5 (02:25:49):
no, fortunately not just the third member.
That was the worst.
Um, that's crazy I mean me andleticia, me and leticia at the
500, the Nora 500, we were inthe middle of nowhere In the
middle of the night.
We're in like a stock truck andthe wheel locked up, and so we
thought, you know, we had noradio communication and it was

(02:26:11):
just a rock like flight caughtin the caliper, so it was very
minimal but it sounded bad, youknow, but like a 20 minute, 10
minute, 10 minute fix, you know.

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
And vamos, yeah, just get going again, yeah,
sometimes it's not a big deal,but it seemed like one while
you're going, or you think youhave to get out and then you're
like dang it, Is it bad?

Speaker 2 (02:26:34):
Plenty of times I've had to have a wrench for a tie
rod three times in my life no,it's like you like to hit stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:26:41):
I got, I got you yeah right, I also drove utv.

Speaker 2 (02:26:43):
So it's just the nature of the beast but, yeah,
well, I made it all the way backto the pits in laughlin when I
was all the way up on the top ofthe hardest part is getting the
steering rack to push and pullthat end back in right exactly
that seems to be the hardestpart well, and making sure your
strap doesn't fall off.
But so um, what's next for you,josh?
uh, we're getting right ahead tocrandon, that's gonna be the

(02:27:06):
next one, so dude, that's gonnabe, that's gonna be fun.
So, uh, at crandon, do theyhave two guys in the in each
class?

Speaker 5 (02:27:14):
in the class 11 they allow two guys still.
Yeah, next year I don't know,but this year yes dude, that's
to be so much fun.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:27:22):
Are you?

Speaker 5 (02:27:22):
excited.

Speaker 6 (02:27:23):
Throw Erica in a car.

Speaker 5 (02:27:24):
Dude.

Speaker 4 (02:27:25):
I might go to Crandon , it just depends when we're
going to pre-run for the 400.

Speaker 5 (02:27:31):
But I'll go with you, Felix.
Yeah, I don't think I'm goingto race my car at Crandon.
We're building a new car forNitro Cross, so we go from
Crandon straight to Richmond,virginia, and we race the
following weekend Cool, and thenwe'll fly back for the 400.

Speaker 2 (02:27:47):
That's a lot of racing dude.
Are you looking forward to theLand Rush start at Crandon?

Speaker 5 (02:27:52):
That's going to be wild.
That's my favorite.
Yeah, actually, I asked Dave tolet us race.
Do the land rush at Hammers.
That's how we did that one.

Speaker 2 (02:27:58):
Dude, that was your idea.

Speaker 5 (02:28:01):
Yeah, I missed the land rush from Rage at the River
Dude that's so awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:28:06):
You want to throw any shouts out before we wind down
the show?

Speaker 5 (02:28:09):
I want to thank Vision Canopies for Kyle for
always supporting what I do, andErica, one of my favorite
people.
She's Erica.

Speaker 4 (02:28:22):
I got to sit down and do a private lesson with Felix
and we had a blast comparingstories just like now and
teaching him some things.

Speaker 2 (02:28:31):
Yeah, it's always awesome.

Speaker 5 (02:28:36):
I love this community of Offroad.
Yeah, no, it's been good.
I mean, it's a blessing man.
You get to live your dreams,you know, and uh, then you have
to make new dreams.

Speaker 2 (02:28:43):
so here we are yeah, there you go, all right man
we'll keep making those newdreams.
Dude, really appreciate youhanging out with us on the dirt
life show tonight, so we'll seeyou at the races thank you guys.
Good night, all right josh,good night so um, man, we
learned a lot today, and now mybrain is going to be able to
sleep because I learned so much.

Speaker 4 (02:29:01):
Well, and I think that's kind of the unspoken of
navigation.
I knew that it was going to bea lot, but I think we touched on
some awesome subjects and kindof shined some light on that
right seat.

Speaker 2 (02:29:15):
So we were going to ask some rapid-fire questions to
everybody else tonight.
It looks like they all bailed,so you're on the hook for these
rapid fire questions, all right.
So Erica Sacks rapid fire andthen we're out.
Erica Sacks tacos or hot dogs.

Speaker 4 (02:29:27):
Tacos.

Speaker 2 (02:29:28):
Chicken or asada.

Speaker 4 (02:29:29):
Asada.

Speaker 2 (02:29:30):
Dunes or the river.

Speaker 4 (02:29:32):
Ooh dunes.

Speaker 2 (02:29:33):
Action shots or still shots.

Speaker 4 (02:29:35):
I like action shots.

Speaker 2 (02:29:36):
Three-wheeler or quad .

Speaker 4 (02:29:38):
Quad.
I like action shots,three-wheeler or quad, quad
Ku-wad for those that I saw onhere Pizza rolls or jalapeno
poppers.
Ooh poppers.

Speaker 2 (02:29:45):
Let's see here.

Speaker 4 (02:29:48):
Favorite movie.
I'm not a movie girl, I don'tknow Okay.
Then videos or photos.
Photos.

Speaker 2 (02:29:55):
Favorite snack.

Speaker 4 (02:29:57):
Sour Patch Kids.
What other form of racing wouldyou try?
Oh, I think boat racing wouldbe kind of cool.

Speaker 2 (02:30:03):
That would be like like short boat racing or like
long distance boat races.

Speaker 4 (02:30:06):
I don't know.
I think both sound fun anythingin a boat, okay all right.
Final question up in boats.

Speaker 2 (02:30:12):
So big boat girl chips and guacamole, or french
fries and ketchup george makesreally good guacamole okay.
So are you picking french friesand ketchup, or chips and guac?
chips, chips and guac all right,we got a winner here, all right
.
Thank you, erica.
Great job on co-hosting theshow.
You had a lot of goodinformation.
We hope all you guys liked it.
Thank you guys very much forjoining us.
You guys are the lifeblood ofthe show.

(02:30:32):
So please comment in, slideinto our dms.
Let us know what we can dobetter.
Thank you to all the sponsorsof the show.
We really appreciate everybodyat Max's Tires, shock Therapy,
evolution Powersports, zollingerRacing Products, vision
Canopies and Starstream.
So thank you everybody.
We will see you guys at thenext race.

Speaker 4 (02:30:51):
Thank you guys for having me.

Speaker 9 (02:30:53):
Thanks for listening to the Dirt Life Show.
See you next week.
We'll see you next time.

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Navigators in Offroad - Kyle Craft, Trevor Ellingham, Jason Montes, Evan Weller, Emma Cornwell, Josh Felix

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.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Navigators in Offroad - Kyle Craft, Trevor Ellingham, Jason Montes, Evan Weller, Emma Cornwell, Josh Felix