July 21, 2024 • 30 mins
Today, we chat with Geoffrey Castles, the amazing musical director currently working on Miss Saigon. Geoffrey shares his journey from playing the piano to becoming a musical director for big shows. He gives us great tips on preparing for auditions, especially for singing.
Highlights:
- Geoffrey’s Journey: Learn how Geoffrey started playing the piano at age 10 and found his love for musicals.
- First Time Conducting: Hear about Geoffrey’s first time conducting Wicked and what he learned from that experience.
- Audition Tips: Get valuable advice on how to prepare for auditions, including being yourself, practicing well, and having a good set of songs ready.
- Vocal Training: Understand the difference between a singing teacher and a vocal coach, and why you need both.
- Handling Nerves: Discover ways to manage performance anxiety and stay calm during auditions.
- Touring Abroad: Geoffrey talks about the challenges and fun of touring internationally with Miss Saigon.
What to Expect:
This episode is full of useful tips from an expert in musical theatre. Geoffrey shares easy-to-follow advice on how to shine in auditions, keep learning, and take care of yourself.
Connect with Geoffrey:
- Instagram: @geoffreycastles
For more information and to send us questions, email us at info@thedive.com.au. Don’t forget to follow and subscribe for more fun and helpful episodes!
Show Notes:
- Geoffrey’s background and journey in music
- First conducting experience with Wicked
- Tips for preparing for auditions
- The roles of a singing teacher and a vocal coach
- Managing nerves and staying authentic
- Insights on touring with Miss Saigon
- Geoffrey’s contact information and social media handles
Tune in to learn how to succeed in the musical theatre world!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, welcome to the podcast, Jeffrey.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm so good.
We were just chatting then andwe met on Mary Poppins and
you're as the musical directorthere and you're currently doing
Miss Saigon as the musicaldirector and it's just a
privilege to have you on.
I know a lot of people aregoing to get a lot out of this
(00:21):
episode, talking about auditionsand how to go about them in
terms of the vocal aspect, sowe're very lucky to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yay.
So before we get into allauditions and that sort of thing
, I'd love for you to paint alittle bit of a picture First of
all.
Did you always want to get intobeing a music director?
Was that always the goal?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
No, I think it developed over years as I fell
in love with musicals.
Yeah, because I think I startedplaying the piano quite late I
would have been maybe 10 and Ivery quickly decided this was
something I wanted to do, but Ididn't really know what it was
going to be, and I think for along time I just thought I'll be
a piano teacher because that'swhat everyone does.
And then, as I wanted to do butI didn't really know what it
was going to be, and I think fora long time I just thought I'll
be a piano teacher becausethat's what everyone does.
(01:06):
And then, as I started todiscover, it was the mega
musical infiltration.
At first it was the Lamey's,the Phantom, the Angeloid,
webber.
And then I remember when I wasin year 12, abc broadcast the
recording of Into the Woods andthat sort of blew my mind that
there was something else outthere.
(01:26):
And then I started listening tomore and finding out more, and
then I was like I really think Iwant to do this.
And then it probably wasn'tuntil maybe later in high school
when I thought maybe, oh,there's this thing.
I keep seeing a musicaldirector that sounds interesting
.
And then, of course, now Ithink why are you so silly?
No, that sounds interesting.
(01:50):
And then, of course now I thinkwhy were you so silly?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
no, there's so much more to it than just turning up
and conducting a show.
Oh yeah, yeah, conducting justseems like a whole nother world.
I don't know how you do it like.
You're just there for thosehours, sometimes not even
sitting down, like what was thefirst experience for you
conducting, were you?
I'm sure you were.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Like the very one of the first things I remember
doing was Wicked back in Sydneyand I don't remember a thing
about it.
I remember I was.
I remember when they did thefive minute call or that I
might've been beginners and theyget a conductor call and I
thought, why did I say yes tothis?
And I was so terrified and Idon't remember a thing.
(02:24):
And the second that the buttonof act two happened, I broke out
into this cold sweat, yeah, andI feel like I trembled my way
through the curtain call.
It was terrifying.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Did it scare you off, like did you think for a minute
that's never happening again?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
No, no, and also I was, you know, I, I was in, like
I, it was my job, so I had toget over that.
Um, I think also because wicked, it's such a um, unlike
anything else, it was thebiggest thing I'd ever done at
that point.
Um, there's so much music in it, so much underscoring it was.
It's a really difficult show toconduct as well.
So I, I think on top of all ofthat and I was fairly green at
(03:04):
the time, so it was terrifying,but I learned so much I wouldn't
change a thing.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
What would you say has changed since that first
time?
Now and now you've conductedmany shows.
What's been the difference foryou?
I?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
think it's just the experience, and the more you do
it, the more I don't.
It's not that I don't questionwhat I do, but I think I'm
better at analyzing what I'mdoing.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I think I just have a.
My skillset is just so muchbetter from doing it for so long
, and so when things don't goright, I can pretty quickly
analyze it and think was itsomething I did and what could I
do different next time?
And it just.
It's really just the experienceand people management and all
that kind of thing that comesalong with it casting, meeting
(03:49):
the expectations of theproducers, meeting the
expectations of the cast and ofthe musicians, and all the, all
those kinds of things that youhave to do it.
It takes a long time, I think,to be confident enough or, I
guess, just secure enough toknow at least have a starting
point.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, because you're not only looking after the cast
and the vocal aspect of the show, you've got the orchestra as
well, and it's a big task toundertake for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, and especially once there's usually a no-debt
policy, which is usually aboutfour to six weeks after opening
Right, and so if it's a longerrun, once that happens, you've
really got the same orchestratwice oh what's that process
like?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Because I know I had a little bit of an insight to it
happening on Puppins.
But a lot of people probablydon't even know that a lot of
the time when we're touring wedon't take the whole orchestra
with us and it's almost likeputting up a whole new show
again and again.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
process like for you.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The rules vary depending on the show and where
you are.
The rules in New York are verydifferent to Australia, but I
tend to think of it as you don'twant more than a third or a
quarter of your orchestra to beDepps.
Yeah, because even Depps areamazing.
They prepare so well, butbecause they don't have the
luxury of doing it every singleday, it's still that little bit
(05:10):
of there's a little bit of theunknown um which which in in.
Sometimes it's really excitingto have someone come in and play
something and it's differentand it's really cool to hear
their interpretation, um, andthen sometimes, just because
they're not used to playing witheveryone, the ensemble is not
quite as tight as it is whenit's everyone who's used to it.
So it's managing that in themoment and knowing it's going to
(05:33):
be fine.
It's just going to be different.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, no, it's amazing.
I can't even imagine like I seepeople conducting and I'm like
I'm going to stay on stage.
I think it's just remarkable.
I think you're also very cleverand I'm like I'm going to stay
on stage.
I think it's just remarkable.
I think you're also very cleverand now that you've progressed
through your own career andyou're currently being the music
director for Miss Saigon youjust come back from Taiwan has
(05:56):
there any difference when you'retouring and you're going
overseas in terms of your job,and how does that differ to when
you're in Australia?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think it's a little bit more of the managerial
aspect when you're overseas andagain, depending on where you
are, depending on who you have.
In Taiwan we were so lucky wetour about it's about seven of
the musicians from Australia wetour and a lot of them are the
specialist instruments.
The flute book has to play theAsian flutes, the Chinese bamboo
(06:24):
flutes, the dietsa as well,which is quite specialist.
The clarinet player has to playthe saxophone, which is that
very big featured moment onstage where whoever's playing
John has to mime to a saxophoneplayer.
The percussion setup isenormous.
So we tour them as well.
And then in Taiwan we also,because it was so quick, we
toured all of the local playersfrom Manila that we had, which
(06:46):
was amazing because they werefantastic and they were such
lovely human beings.
So to have to actually keep thatorchestra together from the
start of Manila through toTaiwan was amazing and I think
by Taiwan we'd mostly found ourstride.
It was just challenging everyweek in new venues.
So the orchestra, much like thecast, would have to turn up on
a Friday morning and just switchit on and work really hard for
(07:08):
three days and then they get afew days off while the crew have
to move.
Manila was slightly different.
It was the beginning and Ithink, depending on the level of
experience of the player,touring can be really
challenging.
It's no different, I think,from touring around Australia.
It's just when you have customsand a passport involved it
(07:29):
feels a little bit moreisolating because you can't just
pop home.
Yeah, that's it, and some peoplemaybe don't realise they need
to prepare bringing certainthings they need that are easily
accessible in Australia.
Some people get there and allof a sudden they don't really.
I guess it's the mental aspectof touring, yes, as well as
(07:50):
being away doing the same thingover and over again, but you
suddenly don't have your supportnetwork.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yes, yeah, which A lot of that comes.
You don't really realize untilyou're there too and you're
trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, absolutely so.
There's a lot of the pastoralcare that has to kick in.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yes, a little bit.
Yeah, it's amazing everythingthat you've been doing and I
absolutely had such a dreamworking with you, and I hope we
get to work together again verysoon Me too.
So let's get into auditions.
It's a big buzz topic.
Everyone wants to.
Whenever I speak aboutauditions on the podcast,
everyone's ears prick up andthey want to know every little
(08:29):
detail.
But I thought we could have achat about them and hone in on
the vocal aspect and the singingauditions and give your advice
on, from the other side, whatyou're seeing, especially with
aspiring musical theatreperformers coming in.
What have you found that is themost important thing for maybe
(08:51):
them to be understanding asthey're coming in, something
that maybe you're seeing moreoften, that you would give
advice on.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I actually think we're only a couple of years out
of basically two years of beinglocked down, were only a couple
of years out of basically twoyears of being locked down, and
I think that has affected a lotof the younger generation,
because a lot of them would havebeen either starting or
finishing their courses, yeah,around that time, and or they
would have had graduated andcome out into two years of very
(09:22):
little happening.
So so I think they've missedout on basically the time.
There's no such thing as ashortcut, and it takes time to
gain experience and confidence.
So I think that they haven't.
They've just missed out on thatopportunity, and I think doing
self-tapes are reallychallenging and they've all of a
(09:45):
sudden become the way toaudition yeah, literally
overnight, and self-tapes aregreat because, from someone on
the panel, it means you haveaccess to so many more people
than you used to.
I remember when we were doingLes Mis, we actually went, we
did trips, online audition,first round auditions to
(10:05):
melbourne, sydney, brisbane andperth oh wow.
Whereas not depending on timeconstraints or availability,
people may not be able to dothat, and so therefore, it's a
huge cost for someone who'sbased in perth to fly to
melbourne for their audition, topossibly do a one-hour dance.
Call and get cut and go home.
Or even worse, coming to sing.
(10:26):
Or even worse, coming to singbeing there for five minutes,
get cut and go home.
Yeah, it's awful.
Self-tapes are amazing for that.
Self-tapes are also amazing forperformers because it is
something that you actually havea bit more control over.
You know, when you walk into aroom, you don't really know
anything else except what you'vedecided to wear and what you're
(10:46):
going to sing.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's all you have control over, whereas if you do
a self-tape, you actually have alot more control over how
you're presenting yourself.
But I think, in terms of peoplecoming in the room, I think the
thing that I just wish everyoneknew was that we actually want
you to be you, we want you tohave done the work, we want you
to have worked on your skills,but we actually want to see your
(11:13):
opinion of whatever you'redoing, be it a song or a dance
call, or even aside from theshow.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
We want to know how the way you view the world
influences what you're doing inthe room, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You talk a lot on authenticity.
I know you'll probably bringthat up a lot and yeah, it's so
true, and I guess it's like youwere saying, with people that
are just come out of thelockdown and trying to be
authentic, let's actually talk alittle bit on that, like how,
what recommendations would yougive to bring more of themselves
to the call when there's somany factors that are making
(11:48):
them nervous?
How can, how would you give tobring more of themselves to the
call when there's so manyfactors that are making them
nervous?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
how can?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
how would you recommend people allow
themselves to be a little bitmore authentic or bring
themselves to the table?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
if you have to do the work.
You can't just hope that bygetting a job and by being able
to get in there and do a showeight times a week, I'm going to
strengthen my skills.
You're only going to strengthenwhat you know.
You're not going to learnanything else.
So you have to do the work.
You have to go to dance classes, you have to do voice classes,
work with a singing teacher,work with a vocal coach look at
what acting classes are outthere.
(12:20):
You have to make sure thatyou're confident in your skills,
because everyone has talent.
I don't think that should everbe questioned.
But eventually you're going tobe asked to do something that
you can't do, and that's wheretechnique comes in.
So in order to be able to singwhatever song you're really
(12:40):
connected to, you need to knowhow to use your voice.
Yes, I also think it'simportant to be as broadly read
as as you can.
Take an interest in somethingother than music theater.
Go see movies, read books, gowatch a football match, do
something else, because evensports psychology is very
similar to performancepsychology.
(13:02):
The the biggest gift you cangive yourself is to invest in
yourself, because if you're, ifyou don't think you're worth
investing in.
Why should a director or aproducer or a music director, or
why should they take the timeto explore what you have to
offer absolutely?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
and it's interesting because I guess a lot of I speak
to heaps of performers now withthis platform and something
that kind of comes up is a lotof performers are just got the
goal to get into the show, right.
That's like they can see thatand nothing else.
But the work never stops, likeafter it.
We even connect with people inthe industry that still are
(13:40):
still doing all this work andstill discovering and haven't
got it figured all out at allthat it still needs to do the
work.
I love that you said that youdon't learn basically everything
and you get into a show andyou're done.
It has to continually going,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, it never stops.
If you can be curious and alifelong learner, it'll serve
you really well.
Yeah, because who knows whatsomeone's going to write in five
or 10 years time to push theboundary and all of a sudden, oh
, I need to be able to speakFrench while I'm hanging upside
down from silks.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, oh, my gosh I love it.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So I have some actually questions here from
some people that recently justbeen doing some auditions and
they'd love to know I know wespoke a little bit about this,
but is there any other ways thatpeople can stand out?
For example, some auditions youare given the same song to sing
and it's a lot of people goingthrough.
You're having to hear the samesong over and over again.
(14:39):
What recommendations or advicewould you give for those people
to stand out or to make it theirown?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
to stand out or to make it their own.
It comes down to knowing how tointerpret the song from your
opinions.
The whole idea of an overdonesong or something that's sung a
lot, it actually doesn't matter,because overdone songs come and
go.
Everyone will have a differentopinion of what is overdone.
But if you're just going to getup there and deliver a tribute
performance to someone else's,to the way Sutton Foster sings
Gimme and I can hear everysingle, all of her phrasing, all
(15:14):
of her, the way she uses thetext, anything that she might
add, or if I hear all of that inthere, then it's why have you
chosen to just do a karaokeversion?
So it's really actually doingthe work on whatever you've been
given.
Take the text apart.
Look at the text as a monologue.
Make sure you learn the musicfrom the page, not from a
(15:35):
recording, so that you don'tit's.
You often can't do anythingabout it just by osmosis You'll
just there might be somethingreally cool that someone does
and you, just you like it, so itjust seeps into your, your
interpretation.
But but always start with thepage.
There's dots on the page andthere's text on the page, and
start with that.
How does each line.
I'm not an acting teacher.
(15:56):
How does each line make youfeel?
What is the journey throughout?
Whatever this excerpt oraudition cut is, how do you feel
about what you're saying?
Were you singing this to?
What are they not giving you?
What do you feel about whatyou're saying?
Were you singing this to?
What are they not giving you?
What do you need?
Even just maybe by asking thosethree questions, you're
probably not going to come upwith the same answers as anyone
else yeah, yeah, and that willput you on that directory of
(16:20):
making that piece.
What you're saying is superauthentic to you yeah, yeah, oh
yeah, you're right, oh no, you,when we talk.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I love how you said a lot of people, especially
people like yourself, who'vebeen around for a while, as
always saying you've got to dothe work, you've got to show up,
and I'd love to talk a littlebit on that, because a lot of
people out there don't know andI didn't even know before
meeting you the differencebetween actually a singing
teacher and a vocal coach.
What are the differences ofthose?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
we can start there yeah, depending on where you
live in the world, they.
It doesn't have to be yourvocal coach's responsibility to
teach you how to belt Fs and Gsand as, but you do get a bit of
crossover.
But essentially your voiceteacher is there, the person
who's going to look after yourvocal, your voice, the technical
side, and when you need to, youknow most everyone should be
(17:12):
able to sing anything.
It's just it might take yousome time to figure it out.
So that's when you go to yourvoice teacher.
Right, it might take you sometime to figure it out.
So that's when you go to yourvoice teacher.
Great.
And then, if you're looking forrep, if you're looking to put a
self-tape down, if you need anaccompaniment, if you maybe just
need help learning thegeography of a song with a piano
player, that's when you can goto a coach.
And again, there are peoplethat do crossover or take
(17:33):
elements of both and crossover.
That's great and I think a lotof people, yeah, like myself
maybe everyone knows I'm just,but I think that's great to know
that if you are starting out inyour or even if you're
continuing in your journey oflearning, that there are
different avenues to help you,and that, I think, will just
help people get a little bitmore clarity on those different
things that you can go for andlook for if you're needing those
(17:55):
specific things, which is great, and I think it's important to
actually have both, because youalso then especially if you find
two people that you reallytrust and you get two really
great sets of ears, becausehopefully by this stage you're
at the stage where you may notneed a voice lesson every single
week, you might just need to goonce a fortnight, once a month,
just for little tune-ups andcheck-ins, and you know that's
(18:20):
the person who will just remindyou of all the things that you
know.
But you just sometimes need thereminder.
Yes, and it's the same with thecoach.
You can do a lot of the workyourself.
It's just.
It's great to go and getsomeone else's ear.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
When coming back into auditions and people coming
into the room, other thanbringing your best self to the
the piece that you're doing andreally sharing it in a way that
is authentic to you, is thereany other common mistakes that
you're currently seeing cominginto the audition rooms lately
(18:52):
with performers?
And, yeah, is there anythingthat's been coming up that you
would love to talk on that wouldhelp aspiring artists coming in
?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I feel like potentially a lack of being
prepared.
Making sure that you thinkabout what you're going to wear.
Making sure that you have yourmusic nice and neatly organized
so that the pianist can read it.
It's in a folder, it's markedup, nice and clearly.
Making sure you actually knowthe song.
(19:22):
Making sure that when you walkinto the audition room it's not
the first time you're doing itwith a real piano player.
Yes, you've got to make surethat you prepare properly and
that whatever song you choose,you inside out and that you have
sung it with a real pianoplayer.
A lot of people, I find.
I often ask people to singscales, which terrifies people,
(19:44):
and it's often you see peoplefall apart when they just have
to sing a scale.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because it's terrifying, because it's a
pretty horrible thing to beasked to do.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Oh, I guess, because it's extending your range until
you can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And that's the thing.
Yeah, I will always stress,test whoever's doing it.
I'll always take them up untilthey stop phonating, or until
they make, maybe, a sound thatthey wish they hadn't, just to
know how far they can be pushed.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And you, is it that's ?
It's good to know that, becauseI guess some people may not
even know that you're actuallyproviding scales, in a way to
see how, what your, where youractual range can go, especially
under a stressful situation,which is essentially what may
happen in a show when you're onstage in front of thousands of
people.
That it's not designed tobasically make you feel or look
(20:32):
bad not at all.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And that's the thing that if you're doing a show for
a year and a half and there'sgoing to come a point, in the
runway everyone's got the fluand everyone's tired because
you're constantly, you mighthave a cast change and you're
constantly rehearsing and noone's ever at 100% doing a show.
You arrive on the first day ofrehearsal hopefully at 100%, and
you never feel that good againuntil you leave.
(20:54):
So that's the thing with thescales.
And it's not about.
The intention is not to showwhere your weakness is, it's
just the intention to see howfar you can be pushed.
Yeah, you also need to know yourvoice and know what your vocal
boundaries are.
It's like that classic mistakeof on your cv putting your range
on your cv as the range youwarm up to, because a warm-up is
(21:19):
not a performance, a warm-up isjust a stretch.
Yes, so you might warm up to ahigh C, but you actually can't
comfortably sing a high C insitu in practice.
And that's fine.
There's nothing.
Just because everything's abouthigh notes these days, just
because you're a baritone or analto, you still have a lot to
(21:40):
offer.
We still need you.
Make sure you know your rangeand then don't panic if you're
being pushed after it, becausealso some people on their CV put
their range, as I only sing, toan F or an G and in scales you
can take them up to a B flat.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And you see, it's great to see the look on their
face when they sing somethingthey never thought they could
literally I've had many timeswhere I've gone into and I'm
like I've never sung up therebefore yeah, yeah, and so then,
if that's the case, you thenneed to actually make sure you
need to explore it.
You need to make sure that, ifthat's something you can do, um,
(22:18):
that you learn how to actuallydo it.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, and get more comfortable with being there so
you can sustain it and learn howto hold it, yeah, because you
never know what's going to getyou the job.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Opportunity will always come knocking, but you've
got to be ready.
It's the stories of whenPhantom I think it was Phantom
it was either Phantom on theHarbour or Phantom the tour.
It's the stories of whenPhantom I think it was Phantom
it was either Phantom on theHarbour or Phantom the two
auditioned and all these peopleoh Phantom's coming, can you
teach me to sing high E?
No, your audition's in threeweeks.
It's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh gosh, in terms of your book and having material
ready.
I know when you gave abeautiful lecture or a
masterclass for us when we weredoing Poppins, you spoke a lot
about what to have in your bookand a big highlight that I
wanted to bring out I hope it'sall right sharing is to do with
self-tapes Having some key, andmaybe you can elaborate on this
(23:15):
having material all ready to go,and maybe you can elaborate on
this having material already togo.
I think there's a misconceptionthat every time a new audition
comes up, a lot of performerseven myself we go and try and
find a brand new song, whereasyou could have a set of songs
that actually work for multipledifferent genres that you could
potentially use for years.
Do you want to talk a bit moreon that?
(23:36):
Yeah, so I think your auditionbook.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You want to think of it as a catalog for your brand,
because everyone's unique andyou, taylor Scanlon, might be
West Elm, and so I can flipthrough the West Elm catalog and
see everything, everything thatyou do.
And then someone else might beCountry Road, and I can flip
through that and see what theycan do.
(24:00):
So when an audition comes, whydo you need to find a completely
brand new song?
Because something in you mayhave changed.
Your audition book has torepresent who you are now, what
you can do now, not what you didfive years ago, and not what
you're working on.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But it's what you do now.
If an audition comes along in ayear, you may have added some
new strings to your bow andthink, oh, I've actually got a
hole here.
I need to make sure I've gotsomething for that, but really
your brand's not going to changethat much, yeah, that much,
(24:41):
yeah.
So if you're auditioning for awhole host of like Dear Evan
Hansen, back to the Future, allthose sort of shows in that
contemporary music, theatre, pop, rock, world yes, the same song
should be able to get youthrough, because you're not
going to be looked at for thedad in Dear Evan Hansen in one
show and then for a kid in Backto the Future yes.
So therefore, you just need asong like that to get you
(25:02):
through, and I think everyone'sbook will be different in terms
of the volume.
Some people will have a lot ofdifferent things they can do.
Some people might be a littlebit more specific or niche, but
you want to make sure that youhave a golden era ballad or a
golden era style ballad,something you're always going to
need to sing, something lyrical, yes, to have a golden era
(25:23):
ballad, I think it's worthhaving something pre-1975-ish
uptempo for a contrast, and thatcould be an early broadway
gershwin porter type of thing.
It could be a golden era anduptempo.
It could be a post golden eracandor and ev jury herman style
show I think we could do inseason two.
And then I think everyone needsto have something that
(25:43):
represents current broadway.
Yeah, um, what's on broadway nowin the last five, ten years,
excluding jukebox musicals andrevivals, so stuff that was
written for the stage.
Yeah, um, in the last five toten years.
I think it's worth havingsomething from the 80s or 90s
style of Broadway musical.
Everyone needs pop as well now.
(26:05):
So make sure you have somethingcurrent pop rock that
represents what's being writtennow, and then something pre-2000
that you might love, the 80s,you might love the 70s, whatever
you really connect with.
And I think I know that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I think that's six songs yeah but I think it's
worth having self-tapes of allof them ready to go yeah because
how good would that feel, tojust have it all ready to go and
then you're done that's theanswer, as well as your book.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
You've got your digital library and you can make
it really cost effective aswell if you take a friend and
hire a piano player's time foran hour between the two of you,
and then the great thing aboutthat is you don't have to play.
Filmmaker and performer yeah,because that's the other problem
with self-tapes it's your.
You wear so many hats.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
So if you have someone who can film it for you
and you do two or three takes ofeach song, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
And that's it, and you leave it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, so good.
It's been awesome having you on.
I know we could speak for a lotlonger and we've been chatting
there's definitely going to bemore of you to come with the
dive and giving some moreinsights into auditions and
stuff you to come with the diveand giving some more insights
into auditions and stuff but isthere any other advice or
anything that you feel like wehaven't covered that may benefit
for aspiring musical theatreperformers?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I think, just acknowledging the pressure a lot
of people feel when auditionshappen.
Because when you look atAmerica, there's I think I
looked at this the other daythink there's 40 Broadway
theaters, so let's say half ofthem are musicals.
That's 20 musicals on Broadwayand there's over 20 musicals on
tour, and that's not includingoff-Broadway workshops, readings
(27:50):
like the stuff, encores, doeverything else.
There's so much there and Ithink the pressure, there's a
lot more pressure here to beable to do everything, be
everything to everyone, getevery job, because I've only got
five opportunities to auditionthis year.
So I think it's rememberingwhat you have to offer and being
(28:11):
patient, because the rightthing will come your way.
You have to make sure you'reready, it will come your way.
Yeah, to make sure you're ready, it will come your way.
Yeah, it's a really it's adifficult industry here.
And make sure that you investin yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
As I said before, I think they're the most I feel
like I can't say it enoughinvest in yourself and remember
that we actually want to see you, yeah oh no, that's so true and
I guess, with that limited, ifyou want to say limited
opportunities that come and go,it's even more crucial that
guess, with that limited, if youwant to say limited
opportunities that come and go,it's even more crucial that the
time that we are spending whenthings aren't around, that are
(28:45):
promoting yourself and reallyputting the continuing the work
in, because a few months inbetween auditions you can evolve
and change and learn so muchabout you and also just diving
into not only what makes youtick but the enjoyment of it all
.
I found that's a lot of thingshappening.
There's a lot of that happeningnow where, because there's
(29:07):
pressure and there's not as many, I feel like there's so many
shows coming to australia thereare probably the busiest time
it's ever been, which is great,yeah, but yeah.
But doing things that as welllight you up and take you out of
the industry.
I know you said go to footballand stuff like that.
Nearly every person that's comeon the podcast has said that
find love and other things, andI just think that ultimately
(29:29):
helps depressurize the.
If you're just focusing ongetting into a musical and
that's your whole entire lifeand there's nothing else, you
it's just going to be such ait's like you're walking on
eggshells, because if thatdoesn't happen and you have
nothing, it's really hard tocontinue and it becomes
something that's stressfulinstead of something that you
enjoy.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Exactly, and I listened to this podcast the
other day as well, where, likeyou just said, they said that we
all talk about the craft andthe skill and the technique, but
no one anymore talks about thelove.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yes, talk about the craft and the skill and the
technique.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But no one anymore talks about the love.
Yes, that ultimately we all doit because we love it, because
it's too hard otherwiseliterally, oh gosh, it's been
awesome having you on jeffrey.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I've just loved it.
I've learned stuff as well asalways, and I'm sure that the
community is gonna be sending inlots of different things.
And if anyone has any questionsfor jeffrey or myself, you can
always email us at info at thedivecomau, and anyone that's
listening in you will definitelysee be seeing jeffrey a little
bit more on the dive, but moreon that later on.
And yeah, if anyone was toconnect with you, jeffrey, what
(30:32):
would you say?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
the best way is to probably my instagram, which is
my name.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, jeffrey castles boom and I'll put that in the
show notes and everything.
Amazing, amazing, fabulous.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Thank you so much thank you so much for having me.
It's been so great to be hereyay bye, jeffrey, see you soon.
Okay, welcome to the podcast, Jeffrey.
How are you?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm so good.
We were just chatting then andwe met on Mary Poppins and
you're as the musical directorthere and you're currently doing
Miss Saigon as the musicaldirector and it's just a
privilege to have you on.
I know a lot of people aregoing to get a lot out of this
(00:21):
episode, talking about auditionsand how to go about them in
terms of the vocal aspect, sowe're very lucky to have you on.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thanks for having me.
I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yay.
So before we get into allauditions and that sort of thing
, I'd love for you to paint alittle bit of a picture First of
all.
Did you always want to get intobeing a music director?
Was that always the goal?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
No, I think it developed over years as I fell
in love with musicals.
Yeah, because I think I startedplaying the piano quite late I
would have been maybe 10 and Ivery quickly decided this was
something I wanted to do, but Ididn't really know what it was
going to be, and I think for along time I just thought I'll be
a piano teacher because that'swhat everyone does.
And then, as I wanted to do butI didn't really know what it
was going to be, and I think fora long time I just thought I'll
be a piano teacher becausethat's what everyone does.
(01:06):
And then, as I started todiscover, it was the mega
musical infiltration.
At first it was the Lamey's,the Phantom, the Angeloid,
webber.
And then I remember when I wasin year 12, abc broadcast the
recording of Into the Woods andthat sort of blew my mind that
there was something else outthere.
(01:26):
And then I started listening tomore and finding out more, and
then I was like I really think Iwant to do this.
And then it probably wasn'tuntil maybe later in high school
when I thought maybe, oh,there's this thing.
I keep seeing a musicaldirector that sounds interesting
.
And then, of course, now Ithink why are you so silly?
No, that sounds interesting.
(01:50):
And then, of course now I thinkwhy were you so silly?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
no, there's so much more to it than just turning up
and conducting a show.
Oh yeah, yeah, conducting justseems like a whole nother world.
I don't know how you do it like.
You're just there for thosehours, sometimes not even
sitting down, like what was thefirst experience for you
conducting, were you?
I'm sure you were.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Like the very one of the first things I remember
doing was Wicked back in Sydneyand I don't remember a thing
about it.
I remember I was.
I remember when they did thefive minute call or that I
might've been beginners and theyget a conductor call and I
thought, why did I say yes tothis?
And I was so terrified and Idon't remember a thing.
(02:24):
And the second that the buttonof act two happened, I broke out
into this cold sweat, yeah, andI feel like I trembled my way
through the curtain call.
It was terrifying.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Did it scare you off, like did you think for a minute
that's never happening again?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
No, no, and also I was, you know, I, I was in, like
I, it was my job, so I had toget over that.
Um, I think also because wicked, it's such a um, unlike
anything else, it was thebiggest thing I'd ever done at
that point.
Um, there's so much music in it, so much underscoring it was.
It's a really difficult show toconduct as well.
So I, I think on top of all ofthat and I was fairly green at
(03:04):
the time, so it was terrifying,but I learned so much I wouldn't
change a thing.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
What would you say has changed since that first
time?
Now and now you've conductedmany shows.
What's been the difference foryou?
I?
Speaker 2 (03:18):
think it's just the experience, and the more you do
it, the more I don't.
It's not that I don't questionwhat I do, but I think I'm
better at analyzing what I'mdoing.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
So I think I just have a.
My skillset is just so muchbetter from doing it for so long
, and so when things don't goright, I can pretty quickly
analyze it and think was itsomething I did and what could I
do different next time?
And it just.
It's really just the experienceand people management and all
that kind of thing that comesalong with it casting, meeting
(03:49):
the expectations of theproducers, meeting the
expectations of the cast and ofthe musicians, and all the, all
those kinds of things that youhave to do it.
It takes a long time, I think,to be confident enough or, I
guess, just secure enough toknow at least have a starting
point.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, because you're not only looking after the cast
and the vocal aspect of the show, you've got the orchestra as
well, and it's a big task toundertake for sure.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, and especially once there's usually a no-debt
policy, which is usually aboutfour to six weeks after opening
Right, and so if it's a longerrun, once that happens, you've
really got the same orchestratwice oh what's that process
like?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Because I know I had a little bit of an insight to it
happening on Puppins.
But a lot of people probablydon't even know that a lot of
the time when we're touring wedon't take the whole orchestra
with us and it's almost likeputting up a whole new show
again and again.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
process like for you.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The rules vary depending on the show and where
you are.
The rules in New York are verydifferent to Australia, but I
tend to think of it as you don'twant more than a third or a
quarter of your orchestra to beDepps.
Yeah, because even Depps areamazing.
They prepare so well, butbecause they don't have the
luxury of doing it every singleday, it's still that little bit
(05:10):
of there's a little bit of theunknown um which which in in.
Sometimes it's really excitingto have someone come in and play
something and it's differentand it's really cool to hear
their interpretation, um, andthen sometimes, just because
they're not used to playing witheveryone, the ensemble is not
quite as tight as it is whenit's everyone who's used to it.
So it's managing that in themoment and knowing it's going to
(05:33):
be fine.
It's just going to be different.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, no, it's amazing.
I can't even imagine like I seepeople conducting and I'm like
I'm going to stay on stage.
I think it's just remarkable.
I think you're also very cleverand I'm like I'm going to stay
on stage.
I think it's just remarkable.
I think you're also very cleverand now that you've progressed
through your own career andyou're currently being the music
director for Miss Saigon youjust come back from Taiwan has
(05:56):
there any difference when you'retouring and you're going
overseas in terms of your job,and how does that differ to when
you're in Australia?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I think it's a little bit more of the managerial
aspect when you're overseas andagain, depending on where you
are, depending on who you have.
In Taiwan we were so lucky wetour about it's about seven of
the musicians from Australia wetour and a lot of them are the
specialist instruments.
The flute book has to play theAsian flutes, the Chinese bamboo
(06:24):
flutes, the dietsa as well,which is quite specialist.
The clarinet player has to playthe saxophone, which is that
very big featured moment onstage where whoever's playing
John has to mime to a saxophoneplayer.
The percussion setup isenormous.
So we tour them as well.
And then in Taiwan we also,because it was so quick, we
toured all of the local playersfrom Manila that we had, which
(06:46):
was amazing because they werefantastic and they were such
lovely human beings.
So to have to actually keep thatorchestra together from the
start of Manila through toTaiwan was amazing and I think
by Taiwan we'd mostly found ourstride.
It was just challenging everyweek in new venues.
So the orchestra, much like thecast, would have to turn up on
a Friday morning and just switchit on and work really hard for
(07:08):
three days and then they get afew days off while the crew have
to move.
Manila was slightly different.
It was the beginning and Ithink, depending on the level of
experience of the player,touring can be really
challenging.
It's no different, I think,from touring around Australia.
It's just when you have customsand a passport involved it
(07:29):
feels a little bit moreisolating because you can't just
pop home.
Yeah, that's it, and some peoplemaybe don't realise they need
to prepare bringing certainthings they need that are easily
accessible in Australia.
Some people get there and allof a sudden they don't really.
I guess it's the mental aspectof touring, yes, as well as
(07:50):
being away doing the same thingover and over again, but you
suddenly don't have your supportnetwork.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yes, yeah, which A lot of that comes.
You don't really realize untilyou're there too and you're
trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, absolutely so.
There's a lot of the pastoralcare that has to kick in.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yes, a little bit.
Yeah, it's amazing everythingthat you've been doing and I
absolutely had such a dreamworking with you, and I hope we
get to work together again verysoon Me too.
So let's get into auditions.
It's a big buzz topic.
Everyone wants to.
Whenever I speak aboutauditions on the podcast,
everyone's ears prick up andthey want to know every little
(08:29):
detail.
But I thought we could have achat about them and hone in on
the vocal aspect and the singingauditions and give your advice
on, from the other side, whatyou're seeing, especially with
aspiring musical theatreperformers coming in.
What have you found that is themost important thing for maybe
(08:51):
them to be understanding asthey're coming in, something
that maybe you're seeing moreoften, that you would give
advice on.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I actually think we're only a couple of years out
of basically two years of beinglocked down, were only a couple
of years out of basically twoyears of being locked down, and
I think that has affected a lotof the younger generation,
because a lot of them would havebeen either starting or
finishing their courses, yeah,around that time, and or they
would have had graduated andcome out into two years of very
(09:22):
little happening.
So so I think they've missedout on basically the time.
There's no such thing as ashortcut, and it takes time to
gain experience and confidence.
So I think that they haven't.
They've just missed out on thatopportunity, and I think doing
self-tapes are reallychallenging and they've all of a
(09:45):
sudden become the way toaudition yeah, literally
overnight, and self-tapes aregreat because, from someone on
the panel, it means you haveaccess to so many more people
than you used to.
I remember when we were doingLes Mis, we actually went, we
did trips, online audition,first round auditions to
(10:05):
melbourne, sydney, brisbane andperth oh wow.
Whereas not depending on timeconstraints or availability,
people may not be able to dothat, and so therefore, it's a
huge cost for someone who'sbased in perth to fly to
melbourne for their audition, topossibly do a one-hour dance.
Call and get cut and go home.
Or even worse, coming to sing.
(10:26):
Or even worse, coming to singbeing there for five minutes,
get cut and go home.
Yeah, it's awful.
Self-tapes are amazing for that.
Self-tapes are also amazing forperformers because it is
something that you actually havea bit more control over.
You know, when you walk into aroom, you don't really know
anything else except what you'vedecided to wear and what you're
(10:46):
going to sing.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
That's all you have control over, whereas if you do
a self-tape, you actually have alot more control over how
you're presenting yourself.
But I think, in terms of peoplecoming in the room, I think the
thing that I just wish everyoneknew was that we actually want
you to be you, we want you tohave done the work, we want you
to have worked on your skills,but we actually want to see your
(11:13):
opinion of whatever you'redoing, be it a song or a dance
call, or even aside from theshow.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
We want to know how the way you view the world
influences what you're doing inthe room, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You talk a lot on authenticity.
I know you'll probably bringthat up a lot and yeah, it's so
true, and I guess it's like youwere saying, with people that
are just come out of thelockdown and trying to be
authentic, let's actually talk alittle bit on that, like how,
what recommendations would yougive to bring more of themselves
to the call when there's somany factors that are making
(11:48):
them nervous?
How can, how would you give tobring more of themselves to the
call when there's so manyfactors that are making them
nervous?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
how can?
Speaker 1 (11:52):
how would you recommend people allow
themselves to be a little bitmore authentic or bring
themselves to the table?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
if you have to do the work.
You can't just hope that bygetting a job and by being able
to get in there and do a showeight times a week, I'm going to
strengthen my skills.
You're only going to strengthenwhat you know.
You're not going to learnanything else.
So you have to do the work.
You have to go to dance classes, you have to do voice classes,
work with a singing teacher,work with a vocal coach look at
what acting classes are outthere.
(12:20):
You have to make sure thatyou're confident in your skills,
because everyone has talent.
I don't think that should everbe questioned.
But eventually you're going tobe asked to do something that
you can't do, and that's wheretechnique comes in.
So in order to be able to singwhatever song you're really
(12:40):
connected to, you need to knowhow to use your voice.
Yes, I also think it'simportant to be as broadly read
as as you can.
Take an interest in somethingother than music theater.
Go see movies, read books, gowatch a football match, do
something else, because evensports psychology is very
similar to performancepsychology.
(13:02):
The the biggest gift you cangive yourself is to invest in
yourself, because if you're, ifyou don't think you're worth
investing in.
Why should a director or aproducer or a music director, or
why should they take the timeto explore what you have to
offer absolutely?
Speaker 1 (13:19):
and it's interesting because I guess a lot of I speak
to heaps of performers now withthis platform and something
that kind of comes up is a lotof performers are just got the
goal to get into the show, right.
That's like they can see thatand nothing else.
But the work never stops, likeafter it.
We even connect with people inthe industry that still are
(13:40):
still doing all this work andstill discovering and haven't
got it figured all out at allthat it still needs to do the
work.
I love that you said that youdon't learn basically everything
and you get into a show andyou're done.
It has to continually going,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, it never stops.
If you can be curious and alifelong learner, it'll serve
you really well.
Yeah, because who knows whatsomeone's going to write in five
or 10 years time to push theboundary and all of a sudden, oh
, I need to be able to speakFrench while I'm hanging upside
down from silks.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, oh, my gosh I love it.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So I have some actually questions here from
some people that recently justbeen doing some auditions and
they'd love to know I know wespoke a little bit about this,
but is there any other ways thatpeople can stand out?
For example, some auditions youare given the same song to sing
and it's a lot of people goingthrough.
You're having to hear the samesong over and over again.
(14:39):
What recommendations or advicewould you give for those people
to stand out or to make it theirown?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
to stand out or to make it their own.
It comes down to knowing how tointerpret the song from your
opinions.
The whole idea of an overdonesong or something that's sung a
lot, it actually doesn't matter,because overdone songs come and
go.
Everyone will have a differentopinion of what is overdone.
But if you're just going to getup there and deliver a tribute
performance to someone else's,to the way Sutton Foster sings
Gimme and I can hear everysingle, all of her phrasing, all
(15:14):
of her, the way she uses thetext, anything that she might
add, or if I hear all of that inthere, then it's why have you
chosen to just do a karaokeversion?
So it's really actually doingthe work on whatever you've been
given.
Take the text apart.
Look at the text as a monologue.
Make sure you learn the musicfrom the page, not from a
(15:35):
recording, so that you don'tit's.
You often can't do anythingabout it just by osmosis You'll
just there might be somethingreally cool that someone does
and you, just you like it, so itjust seeps into your, your
interpretation.
But but always start with thepage.
There's dots on the page andthere's text on the page, and
start with that.
How does each line.
I'm not an acting teacher.
(15:56):
How does each line make youfeel?
What is the journey throughout?
Whatever this excerpt oraudition cut is, how do you feel
about what you're saying?
Were you singing this to?
What are they not giving you?
What do you feel about whatyou're saying?
Were you singing this to?
What are they not giving you?
What do you need?
Even just maybe by asking thosethree questions, you're
probably not going to come upwith the same answers as anyone
else yeah, yeah, and that willput you on that directory of
(16:20):
making that piece.
What you're saying is superauthentic to you yeah, yeah, oh
yeah, you're right, oh no, you,when we talk.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I love how you said a lot of people, especially
people like yourself, who'vebeen around for a while, as
always saying you've got to dothe work, you've got to show up,
and I'd love to talk a littlebit on that, because a lot of
people out there don't know andI didn't even know before
meeting you the differencebetween actually a singing
teacher and a vocal coach.
What are the differences ofthose?
Speaker 2 (16:48):
we can start there yeah, depending on where you
live in the world, they.
It doesn't have to be yourvocal coach's responsibility to
teach you how to belt Fs and Gsand as, but you do get a bit of
crossover.
But essentially your voiceteacher is there, the person
who's going to look after yourvocal, your voice, the technical
side, and when you need to, youknow most everyone should be
(17:12):
able to sing anything.
It's just it might take yousome time to figure it out.
So that's when you go to yourvoice teacher.
Right, it might take you sometime to figure it out.
So that's when you go to yourvoice teacher.
Great.
And then, if you're looking forrep, if you're looking to put a
self-tape down, if you need anaccompaniment, if you maybe just
need help learning thegeography of a song with a piano
player, that's when you can goto a coach.
And again, there are peoplethat do crossover or take
(17:33):
elements of both and crossover.
That's great and I think a lotof people, yeah, like myself
maybe everyone knows I'm just,but I think that's great to know
that if you are starting out inyour or even if you're
continuing in your journey oflearning, that there are
different avenues to help you,and that, I think, will just
help people get a little bitmore clarity on those different
things that you can go for andlook for if you're needing those
(17:55):
specific things, which is great, and I think it's important to
actually have both, because youalso then especially if you find
two people that you reallytrust and you get two really
great sets of ears, becausehopefully by this stage you're
at the stage where you may notneed a voice lesson every single
week, you might just need to goonce a fortnight, once a month,
just for little tune-ups andcheck-ins, and you know that's
(18:20):
the person who will just remindyou of all the things that you
know.
But you just sometimes need thereminder.
Yes, and it's the same with thecoach.
You can do a lot of the workyourself.
It's just.
It's great to go and getsomeone else's ear.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
When coming back into auditions and people coming
into the room, other thanbringing your best self to the
the piece that you're doing andreally sharing it in a way that
is authentic to you, is thereany other common mistakes that
you're currently seeing cominginto the audition rooms lately
(18:52):
with performers?
And, yeah, is there anythingthat's been coming up that you
would love to talk on that wouldhelp aspiring artists coming in
?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
I feel like potentially a lack of being
prepared.
Making sure that you thinkabout what you're going to wear.
Making sure that you have yourmusic nice and neatly organized
so that the pianist can read it.
It's in a folder, it's markedup, nice and clearly.
Making sure you actually knowthe song.
(19:22):
Making sure that when you walkinto the audition room it's not
the first time you're doing itwith a real piano player.
Yes, you've got to make surethat you prepare properly and
that whatever song you choose,you inside out and that you have
sung it with a real pianoplayer.
A lot of people, I find.
I often ask people to singscales, which terrifies people,
(19:44):
and it's often you see peoplefall apart when they just have
to sing a scale.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because it's terrifying, because it's a
pretty horrible thing to beasked to do.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Oh, I guess, because it's extending your range until
you can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
And that's the thing.
Yeah, I will always stress,test whoever's doing it.
I'll always take them up untilthey stop phonating, or until
they make, maybe, a sound thatthey wish they hadn't, just to
know how far they can be pushed.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And you, is it that's ?
It's good to know that, becauseI guess some people may not
even know that you're actuallyproviding scales, in a way to
see how, what your, where youractual range can go, especially
under a stressful situation,which is essentially what may
happen in a show when you're onstage in front of thousands of
people.
That it's not designed tobasically make you feel or look
(20:32):
bad not at all.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
And that's the thing that if you're doing a show for
a year and a half and there'sgoing to come a point, in the
runway everyone's got the fluand everyone's tired because
you're constantly, you mighthave a cast change and you're
constantly rehearsing and noone's ever at 100% doing a show.
You arrive on the first day ofrehearsal hopefully at 100%, and
you never feel that good againuntil you leave.
(20:54):
So that's the thing with thescales.
And it's not about.
The intention is not to showwhere your weakness is, it's
just the intention to see howfar you can be pushed.
Yeah, you also need to know yourvoice and know what your vocal
boundaries are.
It's like that classic mistakeof on your cv putting your range
on your cv as the range youwarm up to, because a warm-up is
(21:19):
not a performance, a warm-up isjust a stretch.
Yes, so you might warm up to ahigh C, but you actually can't
comfortably sing a high C insitu in practice.
And that's fine.
There's nothing.
Just because everything's abouthigh notes these days, just
because you're a baritone or analto, you still have a lot to
(21:40):
offer.
We still need you.
Make sure you know your rangeand then don't panic if you're
being pushed after it, becausealso some people on their CV put
their range, as I only sing, toan F or an G and in scales you
can take them up to a B flat.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
And you see, it's great to see the look on their
face when they sing somethingthey never thought they could
literally I've had many timeswhere I've gone into and I'm
like I've never sung up therebefore yeah, yeah, and so then,
if that's the case, you thenneed to actually make sure you
need to explore it.
You need to make sure that, ifthat's something you can do, um,
(22:18):
that you learn how to actuallydo it.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, and get more comfortable with being there so
you can sustain it and learn howto hold it, yeah, because you
never know what's going to getyou the job.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Opportunity will always come knocking, but you've
got to be ready.
It's the stories of whenPhantom I think it was Phantom
it was either Phantom on theHarbour or Phantom the tour.
It's the stories of whenPhantom I think it was Phantom
it was either Phantom on theHarbour or Phantom the two
auditioned and all these peopleoh Phantom's coming, can you
teach me to sing high E?
No, your audition's in threeweeks.
It's not going to happen.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Oh gosh, in terms of your book and having material
ready.
I know when you gave abeautiful lecture or a
masterclass for us when we weredoing Poppins, you spoke a lot
about what to have in your bookand a big highlight that I
wanted to bring out I hope it'sall right sharing is to do with
self-tapes Having some key, andmaybe you can elaborate on this
(23:15):
having material all ready to go,and maybe you can elaborate on
this having material already togo.
I think there's a misconceptionthat every time a new audition
comes up, a lot of performerseven myself we go and try and
find a brand new song, whereasyou could have a set of songs
that actually work for multipledifferent genres that you could
potentially use for years.
Do you want to talk a bit moreon that?
(23:36):
Yeah, so I think your auditionbook.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
You want to think of it as a catalog for your brand,
because everyone's unique andyou, taylor Scanlon, might be
West Elm, and so I can flipthrough the West Elm catalog and
see everything, everything thatyou do.
And then someone else might beCountry Road, and I can flip
through that and see what theycan do.
(24:00):
So when an audition comes, whydo you need to find a completely
brand new song?
Because something in you mayhave changed.
Your audition book has torepresent who you are now, what
you can do now, not what you didfive years ago, and not what
you're working on.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But it's what you do now.
If an audition comes along in ayear, you may have added some
new strings to your bow andthink, oh, I've actually got a
hole here.
I need to make sure I've gotsomething for that, but really
your brand's not going to changethat much, yeah, that much,
(24:41):
yeah.
So if you're auditioning for awhole host of like Dear Evan
Hansen, back to the Future, allthose sort of shows in that
contemporary music, theatre, pop, rock, world yes, the same song
should be able to get youthrough, because you're not
going to be looked at for thedad in Dear Evan Hansen in one
show and then for a kid in Backto the Future yes.
So therefore, you just need asong like that to get you
(25:02):
through, and I think everyone'sbook will be different in terms
of the volume.
Some people will have a lot ofdifferent things they can do.
Some people might be a littlebit more specific or niche, but
you want to make sure that youhave a golden era ballad or a
golden era style ballad,something you're always going to
need to sing, something lyrical, yes, to have a golden era
(25:23):
ballad, I think it's worthhaving something pre-1975-ish
uptempo for a contrast, and thatcould be an early broadway
gershwin porter type of thing.
It could be a golden era anduptempo.
It could be a post golden eracandor and ev jury herman style
show I think we could do inseason two.
And then I think everyone needsto have something that
(25:43):
represents current broadway.
Yeah, um, what's on broadway nowin the last five, ten years,
excluding jukebox musicals andrevivals, so stuff that was
written for the stage.
Yeah, um, in the last five toten years.
I think it's worth havingsomething from the 80s or 90s
style of Broadway musical.
Everyone needs pop as well now.
(26:05):
So make sure you have somethingcurrent pop rock that
represents what's being writtennow, and then something pre-2000
that you might love, the 80s,you might love the 70s, whatever
you really connect with.
And I think I know that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I think that's six songs yeah but I think it's
worth having self-tapes of allof them ready to go yeah because
how good would that feel, tojust have it all ready to go and
then you're done that's theanswer, as well as your book.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
You've got your digital library and you can make
it really cost effective aswell if you take a friend and
hire a piano player's time foran hour between the two of you,
and then the great thing aboutthat is you don't have to play.
Filmmaker and performer yeah,because that's the other problem
with self-tapes it's your.
You wear so many hats.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
So if you have someone who can film it for you
and you do two or three takes ofeach song, and that's it.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
And that's it, and you leave it.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, so good.
It's been awesome having you on.
I know we could speak for a lotlonger and we've been chatting
there's definitely going to bemore of you to come with the
dive and giving some moreinsights into auditions and
stuff you to come with the diveand giving some more insights
into auditions and stuff but isthere any other advice or
anything that you feel like wehaven't covered that may benefit
for aspiring musical theatreperformers?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I think, just acknowledging the pressure a lot
of people feel when auditionshappen.
Because when you look atAmerica, there's I think I
looked at this the other daythink there's 40 Broadway
theaters, so let's say half ofthem are musicals.
That's 20 musicals on Broadwayand there's over 20 musicals on
tour, and that's not includingoff-Broadway workshops, readings
(27:50):
like the stuff, encores, doeverything else.
There's so much there and Ithink the pressure, there's a
lot more pressure here to beable to do everything, be
everything to everyone, getevery job, because I've only got
five opportunities to auditionthis year.
So I think it's rememberingwhat you have to offer and being
(28:11):
patient, because the rightthing will come your way.
You have to make sure you'reready, it will come your way.
Yeah, to make sure you're ready, it will come your way.
Yeah, it's a really it's adifficult industry here.
And make sure that you investin yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
As I said before, I think they're the most I feel
like I can't say it enoughinvest in yourself and remember
that we actually want to see you, yeah oh no, that's so true and
I guess, with that limited, ifyou want to say limited
opportunities that come and go,it's even more crucial that
guess, with that limited, if youwant to say limited
opportunities that come and go,it's even more crucial that the
time that we are spending whenthings aren't around, that are
(28:45):
promoting yourself and reallyputting the continuing the work
in, because a few months inbetween auditions you can evolve
and change and learn so muchabout you and also just diving
into not only what makes youtick but the enjoyment of it all
.
I found that's a lot of thingshappening.
There's a lot of that happeningnow where, because there's
(29:07):
pressure and there's not as many, I feel like there's so many
shows coming to australia thereare probably the busiest time
it's ever been, which is great,yeah, but yeah.
But doing things that as welllight you up and take you out of
the industry.
I know you said go to footballand stuff like that.
Nearly every person that's comeon the podcast has said that
find love and other things, andI just think that ultimately
(29:29):
helps depressurize the.
If you're just focusing ongetting into a musical and
that's your whole entire lifeand there's nothing else, you
it's just going to be such ait's like you're walking on
eggshells, because if thatdoesn't happen and you have
nothing, it's really hard tocontinue and it becomes
something that's stressfulinstead of something that you
enjoy.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Exactly, and I listened to this podcast the
other day as well, where, likeyou just said, they said that we
all talk about the craft andthe skill and the technique, but
no one anymore talks about thelove.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yes, talk about the craft and the skill and the
technique.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But no one anymore talks about the love.
Yes, that ultimately we all doit because we love it, because
it's too hard otherwiseliterally, oh gosh, it's been
awesome having you on jeffrey.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I've just loved it.
I've learned stuff as well asalways, and I'm sure that the
community is gonna be sending inlots of different things.
And if anyone has any questionsfor jeffrey or myself, you can
always email us at info at thedivecomau, and anyone that's
listening in you will definitelysee be seeing jeffrey a little
bit more on the dive, but moreon that later on.
And yeah, if anyone was toconnect with you, jeffrey, what
(30:32):
would you say?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
the best way is to probably my instagram, which is
my name.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, jeffrey castles boom and I'll put that in the
show notes and everything.
Amazing, amazing, fabulous.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Thank you so much thank you so much for having me.
It's been so great to be hereyay bye, jeffrey, see you soon.
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