December 23, 2024 • 37 mins
In this episode, Taylor dives into creating routines, embracing imperfections, and finding your unique worth in the performing arts industry with Samantha!
🎙️ LIVE insights from Samantha on building routines, pushing past comfort zones, and discovering self-validation!
In this episode, here’s what you can expect:
- The Power of Focused Practice – Why less can be more and how targeted, intentional training beats over-practicing every time.
- Pushing Through Fear & Discomfort – Samantha shares how stepping out of your comfort zone unlocks growth, resilience, and unexpected passions.
- Embracing Imperfection – Why perfectionism holds you back and how committing to your uniqueness brings out your best performance.
- Community as a Catalyst – How building a strong support system with peers can motivate and accelerate your progress.
- Self-Worth in the Arts – Practical tips from Samantha and Taylor on self-validation and recognizing your value in an industry full of talented individuals.
🌟 BONUS: Samantha shares her favorite "so-bad-it's-fun" Latin class and how it taught her to love the process of imperfection!
🚀 Join the Performer's Mindset Hub for FREE:
Free community with tools to support your journey.
Click here to join now!
💻 Check out Momentum 2.0 Program:
Watch FREE From Graduate to Pro Masterclass & learn the 3 Steps To Becoming a Sustainable Musical Theatre Professional.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Dive Podcast.
I'm your host, taylor Scanlan,and I'm so excited for you to
get into this episode with SamDodds Samantha Doddermade, who
has just been offered to go overto New York to play Nini in
Moulin Rouge.
At the time of filming this,which was a few weeks ago, she
actually didn't know thismessage.
I believe she didn't know thatthis was happening, and so this
(00:22):
is a really, really specialepisode.
We talk directly to you,students out there that have
just graduated or graduating,looking to get into the industry
of musical theatre.
That's what I'm all about.
I'm a musical theatre performermyself, but I'm also an online
coach and mentor for studentslooking to get into the industry
and to learn how to sustainablylive the life of a performer
(00:43):
for many, many years to come, solearning the mindset, the tools
and the routines to set you upfor success.
So get ready for this episode.
We dive into many things, fromaudition nerves to Sam's story
where she's at, and overall,it's just a really, really
information filled but funfilled episode.
So enjoy the episode and thankyou, thank you.
(01:04):
Thank you for all the supportand if you're new here, welcome,
welcome in.
Welcome back to the podcast,sam.
I like your new studio.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I know it's pretty cool, right A little very
official.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I know it's a little bit official.
If anyone's listening in andthey want to hear a little bit
more about your story and yourtraining, we actually already
did an episode together, whichis, I want to say, because it's
November now.
I actually started recordingthe podcast in end of November,
december, like the previous year.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
It's almost nearly going on a year since.
Congratulations.
Happy first birthday Today.
Yeah, we did have a chat.
We couldn't stop chatting,actually.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It was great Good luck to us today.
That little studio, self-madestudio that I did with my phone
and everything.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I loved it.
Yeah, it's crazy, but this isvery nice.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, very nice.
Well, thank you for you know,spending time with us and for
just being here.
It's just going to be awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So what's been going on?
Before we get into somequestions, I've got a bunch of
different questions that havebeen designed from the community
.
They really want to know aboutthese things to navigate.
But before we get into thatlike what's live, what's been
going?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
on Really interesting .
I've had a bit of a differentyear to my previous years.
This year I haven't been in atouring show, in a commercial
show, which has been both alovely break.
I bought an apartment inMelbourne at the end of last
year.
We're about In Northcote Okaynice.
I really love the area Go northside, so it's been nice to spend
(02:39):
time with family and friendsand it's something that when
we're travelling and touring andon a job you don't get a lot of
time to do, so that's beenreally a nice change.
I'm a little bit itchy to kindof.
You're like ready now, yeah, andbelieve it or not, I actually
miss travelling, which issomething that's really bizarre,
(02:59):
but I've been overseas a fewtimes.
I went to Hawaii, I went toEurope, I went to New York and
London this year.
Oh, my goodness and that's theother bonus of not being in a
job per se, like in a contractis that you get time to do those
human things, those normalthings, and that was awesome,
and I saw some amazing shows inNew York and London Did you have
(03:20):
a fave.
Yes, I think at the top of mylist, definitely for New York,
was the Outsiders, which I'm alittle bit biased because I have
a friend, justin.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Levine, who wrote the show and the music.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And so a little bit biased there, but his work is
incredible and the show itselfis incredible and I hadn't seen.
I didn't know anything aboutthe Outsiders.
A lot of people studied it inschool but I didn't know
anything.
I really loved the Notebook andin London, I loved Guys and
Dolls.
It was phenomenal, and someonethat I trained with Alex Given
(03:57):
starred in that, so he wasamazing in it.
And I really loved OperationMincemeat, which took out all
the Olivier's apparently lastyear, and it was so good.
It was amazing.
Yeah, so heaps of great thingsthat I saw, but they were my top
choices.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Oh my gosh, so nice.
I actually did see.
I went to London once, but Ihaven't been to New York, I
haven't done.
I know, ever, ever.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I know, oh, my goodness, you need to go.
Your heart will sing.
It's an amazing place to visitfor inspiration and there's so
many Australians there as well,so you kind of land and you
don't feel alone, and there'ssuch a big community as well,
because theatre and the arts isso renowned and so Really
accepted there, accepted.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's just part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
culture yes, and it's , and I think that's what makes
it exciting for us is that it'ssuch a big part of their culture
, especially new york citybroadway, you know.
It's really amazing, so that Ihad some great traveling time
and since then I've beenteaching a lot, which I love,
and also I'm working in acabaret venue as one of their
(05:05):
singers.
So that's been really fun andthat's with Taryn.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yes, yes, I did Cats with Taryn, yes, and I see you
together.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
It's like two worlds together.
We have a very strong loveaffair.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yes, I love watching the social media.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
You both together, we're so different, but we're so
similar as well.
She is such a sweetheart andsuch a great talent.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Such a sweetheart as well.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
She is such a sweetheart and such a great
talent, so I love working withher and the cast and it's really
nice to do something differentand be in Melbourne and be able
to perform, which is such ararity.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's amazing and I love that.
You were just like speakingabout the off periods, which we
actually don't really talk aboutmuch.
We always just like whateveryou see is just that we're
working and then we don'tactually explore about how we
can actually navigate when we'renot in work, and actually it
kind of goes in hand with whenyou're coming out of full time
or you're coming out of trainingand auditioning and waiting for
that first job.
(05:51):
It's a kind of similarexperience.
How have you, over the years,navigated that, and is there
something that you now do thathelps you kind of go through it?
I mean, you said traveling,exploring the world, doing other
things.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think the off time is really tricky and I think it
took me many years to figure outIn fact you know what I'm still
figuring out how to deal withit emotionally, how to deal with
it physically, financially, allof those things.
I think that when I was alittle bit younger I would work
and then I would save my moneyand then I would spend it all on
my off time and start at zeroagain.
And there became a kind of atime in my life when I realised
(06:28):
that I was getting to my latertwenties and that I didn't have
physically much to show for whatI had, lots of aches and pains,
but not material wise to showfor what I'd done, which isn't
all importance but for me, andwhere I was going and where I
was heading.
So something like buying anapartment was really important
to me.
So I chose to really try towork a lot in part-time jobs, in
(06:51):
between contracts, which canreally vary from time to be
three months to three years, youknow who knows how long.
And it's hard because you don't.
You know people often say sowhat's next, what's coming?
And you don't have controlwhether you're going to be right
for something.
It fluctuates so much in thatarea, but I always tell my
students when they are lookingto find work between contracts
(07:15):
or while waiting for theircontract or whatever they're
doing is to find something witha high value.
So you know, you give a highvalue of what you have to offer
and you get a high value back.
So things like teaching isgreat because you get to do
something that you are reallygood at and then you get to make
good money for that as well.
So then what you don't have todo is work a multitude of hours
(07:35):
for not high value, and thenit's taking up your time to get
into class and to train and todo all those other things, which
I think is our other full-timejob when we're not in a contract
you know getting to class.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I love teaching, and I think a good thing about
teaching and I know it's not foreveryone is it's also a place
to continually develop whatyou're actually learning as well
.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And what you speak to your students about as well.
Like often I'll speak to mystudents and think, well, I
could really do with some ofthat as well.
You know, and I learn from them100%.
You know, by watching them I'mlike, oh, that's amazing and I
get inspiration from them.
But yeah, it's about balancingwhat you're putting out and what
you're also receiving back in,and I think that's a really
important and to keep your focusreally clear.
(08:16):
You know, if your focus is tobe ready for the next audition,
are you, in that time, doing thesteps?
And it's not that we have towork 24-7 because you really
need downtime.
You know, at the beginning ofthis year I really took a few
months to just be a normalperson, to travel, to do all
those things.
It's a hard time to navigateand to not get a little bit lost
(08:37):
in that time you know, it's notsomething you get trained to
cope with or to go through aswell.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And so I still struggle at times with figuring
out what I'm doing and is theregoing to be another job?
You know every person, and Ithink something important for
tertiary age students or peopleentering the industry is that
I'm sure every person thinksthat their job, that they have,
is their last job.
You know, like I always say topeople I'm like I might never
(09:04):
work again.
You know, like I'm sure that'snot going to be true, I know but
in the moment, in the momentyou're like, well, this could be
it, you know.
So I think that everyone thinksthat, no matter what age or
level.
I think, don't you think?
I think so yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah Well, you just don't know.
I mean it's two edged sword,because you can feel that.
But also when you're cominginto the industry you feel that
when you've got it, you've madeit, and then all of a sudden
everything's just going to beeasily booked and breezy for the
.
You know, you never actuallythink I mean me going.
When I was starting I justthought you just think in the
now You're not really everthinking about in a few years
You're just like well, I've madeit, it's here Now it's just
(09:37):
going to be my career foreverand then you'll have I've had
like seven months off or 12months off, all these different
things and you always at the endyou're just back not
(09:58):
necessarily to things.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh, oh, my god, is this my?
Is this an interpretive dancemoment for the two of us?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
okay, I'm ready to sing I mean you can't read no,
so that's funny.
I may even keep that in.
I don't know if I can copyright, but I put these like
manifestation things at acertain at alarms.
So at two, two, two, it will gooff and be like you you're in
the exact right or whatever itwas.
So there you go, I love it, andthen I just get to dance.
Interrupts the day.
Oh my gosh, yes, where were you?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Well, you were talking about that, yeah, and
what I think you're actuallysaying is I think you've been
very good at living in themoment and accepting where
you're at and not thinking toomuch about the future.
See, I actually feel a littlebit differently at this point in
my life where I'm more oftenlike what am I going to be doing
in five years?
How am I going to sustain this?
But I think that changes withexperience, age and just time,
(10:42):
and I think you probably gothrough different levels of that
where you're a little bit morefree-flying and living in the
now and a bit more panickedabout you know.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And I think it's more the more time you work saying
in quotations like on yourself,or the more you can trust your
own self or trust I don't knowjust kind of building a
lifestyle that you can enjoy andthe being around good people
and just kind of like trustingyour training and enjoying it.
It actually releases a lot ofthe pressure to you know, figure
(11:12):
it out.
Whatever that means and I feellike that's helped me a lot of
the time is knowing that.
No, actually I have trained forthis and if I performed before,
it means that I can definitelyperform again and you know I'm
always a big believer in youknow what's meant for you won't
pass you and this is exactlywhat you mean at that moment.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And I know a lot of performers say that it's so true
though, what's meant for youwon't pass you.
I completely agree with this,and it can be really hard to
accept that sometimes, becausewe can have this idea that we're
so right for something, butthen, like, have you ever gone
to an audition?
And you realize that there's200 people that are also so
right for something?
And I'm sure that the people onthe panel wish that they could
give every person a job, but thereality is is that they can't.
It's a really hard thing.
I still, at this level, at thisage, this experience or whatever
(12:02):
, still question when I walk outof an audition if it's because
my skills weren't good enough orwhat you know.
And I know the answer to that.
I know the answer that you knowwhat's for you won't go past
you and you can't be right foreverything, and it's very much a
puzzle piece fitting a showtogether.
But as performers I don't knowif anyone else out there feels
like this but I still walk outquestioning my worth and my you
(12:25):
know, could I have done better?
Did I not sing great?
Was it this, was it that?
And then I tell my studentsit's not about that.
That it's about the piece ofthe puzzle.
But you know, I think keepingthat human and keeping that real
and vulnerable going I don'tknow if that ever changes, I
hope it will.
And I think I get stronger astime goes on and I think the
quality of time that I or thequantity of time I should say
(12:45):
that I spend thinking thatreduces and I have amazing
people around me that pull meout of that and say don don't be
silly, it's got nothing to dowith that.
But it is hard because we'reconstantly searching for not
just validation but likecertainty and a reason for
something.
You know, if we can have areason for it being that, then
yes, it was that you sung thatnote really badly, but it's
(13:07):
never that.
You know, I've gone into Imight have said this in the last
podcast I've gone intoauditions and done the worst
audition I've done and receivedthe job.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Oh no, and then?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
gone into auditions and thought I really did a great
job.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So then, what are we doing?
Why do?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
we panic about that, you know.
Why don't we just let it be goon our journey, do our work and
then?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And I think the more opportunities, the more
auditions you go to, you startto realize that more.
I think when we're starting outwe don't see it and we take it
really personal because ofcourse you've just spent so many
years developing all of thisonly to maybe just sing once and
then get cut.
So it can definitely feelpersonal.
But I think the more times yougo you can.
Actually I'm a massive advocatefor really reflecting and not
(13:47):
reflecting in a self-criticismway, but actually really
understanding about what thatprocess was for you.
You know really trying to bepresent so that you can pick up
things, you know the vibe of theroom, or there's just so many
little things that happen soquickly that you're unaware of
when you're starting.
And even now I'll go in and belike wait what?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I've really been trying to.
It's interesting because Ithink reflection is very
important and I think it's sucha juxtaposition because I love
to reflect and I love to try tobe honest with myself but at the
same time I'm trying topractice the law of a little bit
of detachment to do with things, because I think we can become
very attached to the outcome.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Especially when you really love the show or you're
like this is it?
You've got to start to justdetach.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And I'm exploring with that and I still don't know
the way to do that.
If anyone who auditions meswitch off here, a part of that
is maybe not over-preparing, andthat's something that I've
never really done in my life.
I'm definitely a practice makesperfect person.
I love preparation andeverything we're taught is to
prepare the best you can.
However, with that, preparationbecomes my emotional attachment
(14:58):
to it, my love for it.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Because you're spending so much time with the
material, your connection to it.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes, workshopping within my life.
How much can I learn andpresent an audition, a glimpse
of what this could be, and thenstep away from it without it
being?
Here's my finished product.
Here's everything you're goingto get and that could
potentially lose me jobs attimes, but it actually protects
my heart a little bit more, youknow.
So, not overspending too muchtime to perfect that, and I
(15:26):
don't know if that's the rightjourney for me.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Well, it also gives you room to take on direction as
well.
I know sometimes I've gone insuper prepared or I've done it
to the T that I couldn't changewhat I just rehearsed, because
when you're in the moment andyou're in fight or flight, your
body's in muscle memory, it'sgoing.
I've just rehearsed this, thisis what is safe, this is what is
known.
So, even trying I mean nowhaving more experience I can
(15:49):
develop it because I can be abit more present.
But when you're starting outand you've got that, it's really
hard to go away because it'seven more uncertain than the
moment that you're in there,which is filled with uncertainty
.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Which then again there's the juxtaposition,
because you want to go here's myskills, this is how good I can
be, or this is what I can offer,but then you want to be free
and moldable.
In that moment I don't know theanswer to it quite yet, but I
do know that attaching too muchto things for me doesn't have a
great outcome, because itcreates a lot more turmoil
(16:20):
within my heart and my mind whenI don't get something, which is
more often than not thepercentage that it happens.
You know, and from the outsideit probably looks like everyone
gets everything and it justlooks smooth sailing.
But, there's a lot of no's inthe industry.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I had another guest on just before and we were
talking about that.
I'm like, I feel like I knowsocial media is, you know we say
it's a highlight reel, but Ithink, you know, maybe there can
be room at some stages talkingabout things that haven't worked
, because that's, you know, 90%of the time, or you know a
shorter percent of the time,that that happens and it's
definitely a real thing.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Absolutely.
It happens more often than not.
You know and you can guarantee,just like when you get your
headshots taken.
You know if anyone that's had aheadshot.
You get 500 shots and you pickthree and you know what I'm
still not happy with those three.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Give me the folder.
Photographers are amazing.
How much is the folder?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But you know, like finding three out of 500, that
you think I think that's okay.
So it's the same with yourhighlight reel on social media.
It's the same thing with youknow, gosh, anytime I and this
is a new world for me but, likeI'm saying, to appreciate the
imperfection of things you know,because we're not perfect I
know that every time I step onthe stage, I'm never going to,
I'm actually never going to givea perfect performance.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And that's okay.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, Because I'm human.
Yes, Although I would like someperfection.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
But yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Well, why don't we get into afew little questions from the
community?
Let's go on auditions, becausewe're just talking a little bit
about that and you know the bigthing that people are going in
with is you get audition nerves,and so a question here is how
can I manage audition nerves andshow up as your best self in an
audition?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Audition nerves.
It's really.
They're a bizarre thing becauseI feel like they hit you really
unexpectedly, like I have wokenup some mornings, especially
when I was younger.
I used to get nervous from thesecond I woke up.
Oh it's the big day of theaudition.
Now I kind of go about my day,rock up to the audition.
I'll be pretty chill, and thenall of a sudden you stand on
(18:21):
that X and like I remember anaudition I did last year
Actually you know what it wasfor Sunset Boulevard.
Here we go, full disclosure.
Now I knew I wasn't right forthe show, but I really wanted to
do an audition and I reallywanted to work on something I
hadn't auditioned for a reallylong time.
So I was pretty chilled.
I was like I'm not going tobook this show.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
We're going to Singapore in February.
There's some openings.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I walked in, I said hi, stood on the X, I'm all
chill and the music starts andmy knee starts shaking and I'm
like everyone's looking at meand I'm about to start singing
and in my head I'm not thinkingabout the song, I'm thinking why
, is my knee shaking.
I'm not even nervous and I hadthis real like conflict in my
head, being like what's going on?
And my body went into thisresponse where I was like, okay,
(19:14):
I guess I am nervous and I sungthe song and it was all fine,
but all I was thinking about wasmy shaking knee.
You shake your leg and it's sobizarre because I really didn't
expect that to be nerve-wracking.
And then I've gone into otherauditions and haven't felt a
glimpse of nerve.
So it's unpredictable and thishas happened on stage to me
before.
No nerves before a show.
(19:35):
All of a sudden, bam wham.
Thank you, ma'am, you'rewelcome.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I've had an opposite experience to you as well that I
now with auditions.
I'll be nervous prior, but assoon as I enter the door of like
the complex I just go likesuper chill.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I think I prefer that version At least.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I don't know what it is.
I mean, yeah, just trying tolike.
Maybe it's just like I might Idon't know, but it's funny how
it works for so many differentpeople and, depending on the
show and how much I want it to,that's a whole different thing
More of detachment.
I know, because you're like oh,you know.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I think what I've learnt is and going back, I said
this just before I've gone inand done my worst auditions and
gotten the job, so really Iwonder how much it matters.
You know, I think we getnervous because we want to do
well, we don't want todisappoint ourselves, mostly
myself.
It's not even to do with thepanel, it's to do with, like
(20:30):
you've worked so hard on this,like an opening night.
I get nervous because I think,oh, we've done all this work,
you want it to be a good showthat you know you can do.
So if you take away thatpressure and I often think, say
an opening night, I'll use thisas an example.
What's the worst that canhappen?
I forget the lyrics.
It's happened before in shows.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I remember once it wasn't in a show, but I was
teching for Evita I understudiedthe role of Ava Perron and I
was so excited to do this tech.
You know dream role.
And I get to Buenos Aires andwe're singing the song and all
of a sudden there's like thisfast moment that she sings and
(21:11):
all of a sudden I was just like,ah.
I remember my friend ChrisScalzo was singing the wings and
he was yelling out the lyricsto me and you know, like I
thought you know, if thathappened in the show, the tech
went on.
The tech went on.
If you fall, if you forgot yourwords, if you forgot the song,
someone would it actually makesit even more enjoyable yes,
(21:31):
right as well.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Right, if that happens in a show I'm like this
is fantastic if they weren'tcaptivated they are now.
They're like let's go, and Ikind of lean into that being
like you know what if somethingwent drastically wrong?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
what a great story for everyone to take away.
So I kind of go into openingnights like that and I'm trying
so hard to be like what's theworst that can happen?
Not anything that hasn'thappened to you before and it
happens very rarely.
And then an audition is likethe panel.
I'm sure I've sat on the otherside as a reader and seen you
can tell when someone's nervousand you don't judge their
(22:04):
performance on that.
You know I say take a breath,start something again, tell them
you're nervous.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
They probably know it is a nerve-wracking Of course
it is, and I think publicspeaking is the most like feared
, like common fear in the world.
And when, then, you've beenasked to sing and dance or act
in front of a panel that you'reliterally being asked to present
to see if you have what ittakes to be in the show, Like
(22:30):
that just puts it on a wholeother level.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
It does.
And, like when I've spoken to alot of creatives, they often
say, oh, I don't know how youguys audition.
Yeah, I'm like, thank you, it'sso hard.
So they have empathy for thatand they can see past that and
they all want you to do well.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
They can see past it and they all want you to do well
, like everyone in the roomthere wants you to do well and
they're there to actuallysupport you more than we think I
think a lot of the time.
But yeah, it goes back to whatyou were saying, that ultimately
, yes, we're wanting to do wellfor others, but really what
we're looking for is to do forus to feel like we did the best
we could, and sometimes nervesdoes take it out of us, but I
(23:04):
think each time it's just thatlearning experience and the more
I always say you know peoplethat are nervous about auditions
it's just a new skill, likewhen you started dancing for the
first time or you startedseeing or acting that first
class.
You have no idea what's goingon.
Yeah, I can tell you many timeswhere I was just felt so out of
place and, yes, that we cantake the skills that we learned
(23:27):
in the training and do it inaudition.
The whole audition experienceis another new skill.
So I think, just doing it moreand more and I mean even saying
that I've worked with so manypeople that have been in the
industry for 20 something yearsthat still get nervous and still
I don't.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I don't know if that ever changes.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yes, I don't think it changes.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You know, when I was younger, the way I kind of
combated that was I askedfriends, colleagues, people
around me to sit down and watchmy audition before I went in.
You know, and that really helps.
You know, especially someoneyou respect or that you know,
and to see if you can get thosenerves up and to sit, like even
(24:04):
your family members and myfamily are lovely critics of
mine, yeah, especially mygrandparents.
My grandmothers are the bestones.
So I get them to sit down andlisten to me and they'll give me
the truth.
So they actually make me themost nervous because they don't
hold anything back.
You know, I think one of mynans said to me sometimes it's
like it's very loud and why doyou do that thing with your
(24:26):
voice, that shaky thing, and Iwas like vibrato, it's very loud
and why do you do that thingwith your voice that shaky thing
and I was like vibrato, vibrato, jeez.
Thanks, nan.
But you know, I think that wasreally helpful and I still do
that if I need it, you know, andlean on your friends that are
in the industry as well.
So I do mind if I do this foryou, because we don't have the
opportunity to do it very often.
So if we can create that,that's really helpful.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh my gosh, there's been some times where I've
self-sabotaged myself picking anew song and then to sing for
the audition and I didn't evenpractice it with a pianist.
I'm like, yeah, I'll be fine,I'll just practice it with my
old YouTube backing track athome, not share it with anyone.
I'll be fine, go in.
And I think one section was inmy head voice and something Fine
(25:07):
go in and I think one sectionwas in like my head voice and
something.
Oh well, when you're in thereand you have to fully present it
and you're not used to doing itwith a.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Did you learn from that one?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, let's just say I didn't get that show.
I was like, oh, that was not agood choice, but I mean, in that
it's, you know, able to laughafter and be like, okay, that's
not what worked.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
These work, that these make the best story.
I know that's why you needthose moments that don't go so
well, because I don't know theymake us human.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
what was that for?
I think it was for like frozenor something and, um, I think
the music director at the time Iwas I was doing charlie and
chocolate factory, so I thinkshe was doing it as well at the
time and so she's like I'm likebooked you and probably bob
Bobby's just said really goodthings about me coming in and
I've just gone.
It's still pretty good.
(25:53):
So, yeah, it's funny how eachexperience shapes you and you
can learn from it each time.
Yeah, all right.
So coming into about buildingand sustaining this wild career
that we call musical theatre,what would you say the first
steps that students or newgraduates can take when entering
the industry?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know, I think musical theatre is really
interesting because it's veryclear, it's a very clear skill
set.
Right, you've got singing,dancing, acting, right Like, and
if you mush them all together,it's performance.
And you know, I think that itjust creates a very clear
(26:34):
guideline and we can reallyfocus on three areas.
Clearly, you know, it's notthis ambiguous thing I feel like
, um, say, like acting thisambiguous element of who are you
, what is it?
And musical theater has anelement of who are you, what is
it?
And musical theatre has anelement of that, but it's just
defined more clearly.
It's like you work on yourvoice, you work on your dance
(26:57):
skills, you work on your actingand your script interpretation,
and then you mush it alltogether and there you go, your
performance skills.
But I think that stepping out oftertiary education and stepping
out of full-time training orinto the industry, I think it's
just about being economical withyour time and setting clear
goals for your week.
(27:17):
You know, and let's look at itlike this I talk to my students
about this all the time If youwere going to go to the gym,
right, you could just go to thegym every day and just fluff
around the gym and just like,lift a couple of weights, walk
on the treadmill, and that'sgreat, you're moving your body,
that's wonderful.
But if you wanted to seeresults from that, you would
probably work toward a programat the gym, right.
(27:38):
So you get specific about that,so you can see growth.
And I think our careers arevery and our skill sets are very
similar Work specifically, go.
Okay, you know what?
I'm not great at picking upchoreography.
So I'm going to go to a hip hopclass or, like you know,
whatever, something that's moreintricate, so I can really a
commercialized class, so I canfocus on those little details.
(28:02):
Or, you know, I want to improvemy range singing and create a
stronger head voice or whateverit might be.
So you can just be specificabout that, as opposed to I
don't know where to start.
You know I want to work on myrepertoire so you can put away
some time in the day to sit downand listen to music and figure
out what suits you.
I think that's the beingspecific and economical about
(28:22):
your.
Time is probably and you'veprobably come out of a training
where you're there nine to fiveor nine to four or five days a
week and they're giving youeverything to do.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And so you've got to start doing that for yourself.
And it definitely does change,because obviously we don't spend
nine to four every day trainingwhen you're out.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Absolutely not, please don't, goodness gracious,
I don't want to go back to that.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I look at it full time and say you're amazing, how
did I do that?
I'm not sure, but I think justreally prioritizing specific
things and making sure that whenyou do it commit wholly to that
moment.
You know, if you're going to gointo an hour and a half dance
class, commit to that one hourand a half, the best that you
can 110% Then you can have therest of your day.
(29:08):
It's not about fitting in asmuch as you possibly can, it's
about doing it reallyefficiently.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I think with that you're able to actually excel
faster, because you're reallydialing in where you want to
give your time, as opposed towhen you are training.
You're kind of getting this bigumbrella of everything to make
you improve, but when you havetime to yourself you can
actually go right.
No, I really want to dial intothis this week or, you know, be
(29:33):
really specific on that and youactually get control over that
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Look at it like learning a song.
Right, you can learn a song andjust try to put everything in
at once the performance, thenotes, the thing and then it
might be a bit approximate or itmight be not quite detailed
enough.
So if you really broke that upand was like, okay, this week
I'm just going to focus on whatthe notes I'm meant to be
singing, next week I'm going toactually think about what I'm
singing or whichever order youmight want to do it.
So, and that might not work foreveryone, but just being more
(30:00):
specific about things mightactually get you to the result
that you want a little bitquicker or a bit more detailed
or a little bit more efficiently.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, and we spoke about building a routine on our
Facebook group that we have.
So if anyone wants to go andcheck that out, it's actually
I'll put it in the show notesbelow.
Anyone can join for free.
We actually did a five-daymindset challenge on there where
we had five different industryguests on there talk about
specific things and you came onand spoke about how to basically
how to build a routine and whatthat looks like.
So, if anyone wants to, I thinkit was like 45 minutes or
(30:30):
nearly an hour.
We went into all of it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
We know how to talk.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
We know how to talk, we love it and a lot of people
got a lot of value from that.
So if anyone wants to go checkthat out and join that group,
I'm actually starting monthlyworkshops on there, based in
mindset on there.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So if anyone wants to come and check that out go
check that out.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I'd love to that's it Well, as we kind of come to the
end of this podcast, I mean Ifeel like we could just talk
forever about different things.
When people are coming out offull time and they've come from
this massive structured life,and when you're building that
kind of routine for yourself, Ifeel like there's going to be a
wave of people not knowing whatis enough.
(31:07):
Like how much time spending onsomething is enough.
Like what can that structurekind of look like in my week to
feel that I'm, you know, usingmy time efficiently?
But also, do you know what I'mkind of?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
trying to say I do, and I think we just kind of we
kind of covered that and I thinkthat sometimes, because you've
come out of this full timetraining, we think that that's
what we have to continue on with.
But I don't think it'snecessary.
I think, as I said, like wespoke about, I think more
specific training, more focusedtraining, is more beneficial,
(31:39):
but that's for me personally andit might be so different.
You know, as I said, I camefrom a practice makes perfect
background that I had to learnall of my skills.
I had to, you know, sit at thatpiano until I sung the right
note.
I have to practice that turn 50times till I can actually nail
it once.
But what I have discovered overthe years is that we can waste a
(32:00):
lot of time in that, you know,procrastination, and so if we
really just focus it down andespecially there's so many
distractions in life now, youknow so if we really focus that
training, we don't have to dosix hours a day.
You can do one hour a day andjust make it very focused and
just, I think making sure thatyou're not sitting in your
(32:21):
comfort zone all the time, and Ithink especially when you come
out of training is the time toreally expand that Take risks.
Take risks, go to classes thatyou wouldn't usually go to, and
who knows what you might learn.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
It might be the thing you start to fall in love with,
and you go down that rabbithole.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Absolutely.
Like you know, my favouritething is I go to a Latin fusion
class with Neville on aWednesday at Circle Studios and
I am so bad at it, like I am, somy hips do not lie.
No, I see there, you turn itout.
No, fake it till you make itbaby.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And that's what I love about Nevs is that he's all
about that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
But you know, like I have the best fun.
I actually said to him a fewweeks ago I was like I'm the
worst at your class and I loveit so much because I love I
watch his hips go and his legsand just ballroom is not my
thing.
I really wish it was because Ilove it so much.
But I just kind of get in thereand like you know what I'd have
to be the best Latin fusiondancer in this room.
(33:17):
But who knows what skills Imight take out of this once.
One perseverance and pushingthrough the discomfort.
But two is that you know Imight not get that cha-cha step
exactly right, but there mightbe a time in my life in the
future that has that.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And you go oh, I'm like, oh, no, I know how to do
this.
You'll call Neville.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Hey, neville, I did it, but I think, yeah, not
sticking into your comfort zoneand making sure that you're
pushing yourself in the areasthat feel a little bit scary
still, because maybe you comefrom, you know, being a big fish
in a small pond and then it'sreversed so you need.
It's going to be a new step,it's going to be scary, it's
going to make friends.
Go to you know, take yourfriends.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Like, I guess, if you've just finished and there's
a, I'm sure there's a wholebunch of people that are doing
that are in the same boat as you.
You know, maybe make a pact,we're going to this class, let's
keep it going, let's do that,and I know that in full time you
always have those two threefriends, that would absolutely
be on board as well.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, and then you can encourage each other and
that always helps.
Like we've got that community.
Now People will be like are yougoing to class?
And then someone might saythey're going to class.
I'm like okay.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Even if great time to be in the same area as each
other.
What's been awesome having youon.
Is there any final advice thatyou would give students that are
emerging into the industry?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We talked about that.
I've been teaching a lot and Ithink it's don't waste any time
to expose yourself in the waythat I'm saying.
You know, often I say just gofor it, just go for it, just go
for it, and it leads back to, Iguess, perfectionism, and I talk
(34:54):
to my students a lot about this.
I'm seeing a lot ofperfectionism in and gosh,
goodness gracious, I'm speaking,you know, do as I say, not as I
do, but I see everyone tryingto get the steps perfect and the
technique perfect and singerperfect, and what if we just
ruffled that up a little bit andwas just like but who are you?
And I think that the mostimportant part is to go, what do
(35:16):
you have to offer?
And I think, yeah, justcommitting to things a little
bit more.
I think I'm seeing that a littlebit when I'm teaching.
It's like just go from itstraight, straight away, you
know, and and easier said thandone, because you're trying to
find yourself, you're trying tofind where you fit.
And I do this to myself all thetime Just commit, just commit
straight away and see whathappens.
(35:36):
So I think that's what I'mseeing the most, because there
are so many talented peoplecoming out of institutions and
tertiary studies and they've allgot the skills already.
In fact, you know what.
They're all better than me.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
They really are.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I look at my students and I'm like, well, I can't do
that, no, no, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
All this new wave of talent that comes through is
incredible.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Talent is amazing and I guess when?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
you're in that you don't know any different.
You just think that.
I think it's that thing of.
I mean, when we see the WestEnd as Australians or Broadway,
we just put it on such a highpedestal so we trained so hard.
And then I remember going tothe UK and seeing the West End
show and it wasn't that it wasterrible.
I was just like, oh, like itwasn't like you realised that
you could do that.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
So you actually what you're saying is that you put it
on a pedestal but actuallyyou're on that too and that we
don't.
We can never reflect back andsee our own worth, and I think
that's something that we're allalways trying to work on.
And how do you see your ownworth, how do you validate
yourself in that way?
And that's something that Idon't think you have the answer
(36:40):
to.
I don't think there's a magicpotion and go.
This is the answer to that.
It's about living through itand having those moments where
you go and see a show and go.
Oh, I think I could do that,you know.
That's it yeah.
So I think it's super importantto validate ourselves in those
ways.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I love that I've literally just made an audition
confidence toolkit that is, astep-by-step guide to
self-validated confidence.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Fantastic.
Can you send that to me?
I'll send it, yes.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I will.
Well, I'll absolutelydefinitely send it and I'll put
it in the show notes for anyonethat wants to check it out.
But thank you so much for beingon again and, who knows, maybe
there will be a part three.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Everyone's like get her off.
You're amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you, thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Dive Podcast.
I'm your host, taylor Scanlan,and I'm so excited for you to
get into this episode with SamDodds Samantha Doddermade, who
has just been offered to go overto New York to play Nini in
Moulin Rouge.
At the time of filming this,which was a few weeks ago, she
actually didn't know thismessage.
I believe she didn't know thatthis was happening, and so this
(00:22):
is a really, really specialepisode.
We talk directly to you,students out there that have
just graduated or graduating,looking to get into the industry
of musical theatre.
That's what I'm all about.
I'm a musical theatre performermyself, but I'm also an online
coach and mentor for studentslooking to get into the industry
and to learn how to sustainablylive the life of a performer
(00:43):
for many, many years to come, solearning the mindset, the tools
and the routines to set you upfor success.
So get ready for this episode.
We dive into many things, fromaudition nerves to Sam's story
where she's at, and overall,it's just a really, really
information filled but funfilled episode.
So enjoy the episode and thankyou, thank you.
(01:04):
Thank you for all the supportand if you're new here, welcome,
welcome in.
Welcome back to the podcast,sam.
I like your new studio.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I know it's pretty cool, right A little very
official.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
I know it's a little bit official.
If anyone's listening in andthey want to hear a little bit
more about your story and yourtraining, we actually already
did an episode together, whichis, I want to say, because it's
November now.
I actually started recordingthe podcast in end of November,
december, like the previous year.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
It's almost nearly going on a year since.
Congratulations.
Happy first birthday Today.
Yeah, we did have a chat.
We couldn't stop chatting,actually.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It was great Good luck to us today.
That little studio, self-madestudio that I did with my phone
and everything.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
I loved it.
Yeah, it's crazy, but this isvery nice.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, very nice.
Well, thank you for you know,spending time with us and for
just being here.
It's just going to be awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
So what's been going on?
Before we get into somequestions, I've got a bunch of
different questions that havebeen designed from the community
.
They really want to know aboutthese things to navigate.
But before we get into thatlike what's live, what's been
going?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
on Really interesting .
I've had a bit of a differentyear to my previous years.
This year I haven't been in atouring show, in a commercial
show, which has been both alovely break.
I bought an apartment inMelbourne at the end of last
year.
We're about In Northcote Okaynice.
I really love the area Go northside, so it's been nice to spend
(02:39):
time with family and friendsand it's something that when
we're travelling and touring andon a job you don't get a lot of
time to do, so that's beenreally a nice change.
I'm a little bit itchy to kindof.
You're like ready now, yeah, andbelieve it or not, I actually
miss travelling, which issomething that's really bizarre,
(02:59):
but I've been overseas a fewtimes.
I went to Hawaii, I went toEurope, I went to New York and
London this year.
Oh, my goodness and that's theother bonus of not being in a
job per se, like in a contractis that you get time to do those
human things, those normalthings, and that was awesome,
and I saw some amazing shows inNew York and London Did you have
(03:20):
a fave.
Yes, I think at the top of mylist, definitely for New York,
was the Outsiders, which I'm alittle bit biased because I have
a friend, justin.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Levine, who wrote the show and the music.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
And so a little bit biased there, but his work is
incredible and the show itselfis incredible and I hadn't seen.
I didn't know anything aboutthe Outsiders.
A lot of people studied it inschool but I didn't know
anything.
I really loved the Notebook andin London, I loved Guys and
Dolls.
It was phenomenal, and someonethat I trained with Alex Given
(03:57):
starred in that, so he wasamazing in it.
And I really loved OperationMincemeat, which took out all
the Olivier's apparently lastyear, and it was so good.
It was amazing.
Yeah, so heaps of great thingsthat I saw, but they were my top
choices.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Oh my gosh, so nice.
I actually did see.
I went to London once, but Ihaven't been to New York, I
haven't done.
I know, ever, ever.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
I know, oh, my goodness, you need to go.
Your heart will sing.
It's an amazing place to visitfor inspiration and there's so
many Australians there as well,so you kind of land and you
don't feel alone, and there'ssuch a big community as well,
because theatre and the arts isso renowned and so Really
accepted there, accepted.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
It's just part of the culture.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
culture yes, and it's , and I think that's what makes
it exciting for us is that it'ssuch a big part of their culture
, especially new york citybroadway, you know.
It's really amazing, so that Ihad some great traveling time
and since then I've beenteaching a lot, which I love,
and also I'm working in acabaret venue as one of their
(05:05):
singers.
So that's been really fun andthat's with Taryn.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yes, yes, I did Cats with Taryn, yes, and I see you
together.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
It's like two worlds together.
We have a very strong loveaffair.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yes, I love watching the social media.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
You both together, we're so different, but we're so
similar as well.
She is such a sweetheart andsuch a great talent.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Such a sweetheart as well.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
She is such a sweetheart and such a great
talent, so I love working withher and the cast and it's really
nice to do something differentand be in Melbourne and be able
to perform, which is such ararity.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's amazing and I love that.
You were just like speakingabout the off periods, which we
actually don't really talk aboutmuch.
We always just like whateveryou see is just that we're
working and then we don'tactually explore about how we
can actually navigate when we'renot in work, and actually it
kind of goes in hand with whenyou're coming out of full time
or you're coming out of trainingand auditioning and waiting for
that first job.
(05:51):
It's a kind of similarexperience.
How have you, over the years,navigated that, and is there
something that you now do thathelps you kind of go through it?
I mean, you said traveling,exploring the world, doing other
things.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I think the off time is really tricky and I think it
took me many years to figure outIn fact you know what I'm still
figuring out how to deal withit emotionally, how to deal with
it physically, financially, allof those things.
I think that when I was alittle bit younger I would work
and then I would save my moneyand then I would spend it all on
my off time and start at zeroagain.
And there became a kind of atime in my life when I realised
(06:28):
that I was getting to my latertwenties and that I didn't have
physically much to show for whatI had, lots of aches and pains,
but not material wise to showfor what I'd done, which isn't
all importance but for me, andwhere I was going and where I
was heading.
So something like buying anapartment was really important
to me.
So I chose to really try towork a lot in part-time jobs, in
(06:51):
between contracts, which canreally vary from time to be
three months to three years, youknow who knows how long.
And it's hard because you don't.
You know people often say sowhat's next, what's coming?
And you don't have controlwhether you're going to be right
for something.
It fluctuates so much in thatarea, but I always tell my
students when they are lookingto find work between contracts
(07:15):
or while waiting for theircontract or whatever they're
doing is to find something witha high value.
So you know, you give a highvalue of what you have to offer
and you get a high value back.
So things like teaching isgreat because you get to do
something that you are reallygood at and then you get to make
good money for that as well.
So then what you don't have todo is work a multitude of hours
(07:35):
for not high value, and thenit's taking up your time to get
into class and to train and todo all those other things, which
I think is our other full-timejob when we're not in a contract
you know getting to class.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
I love teaching, and I think a good thing about
teaching and I know it's not foreveryone is it's also a place
to continually develop whatyou're actually learning as well
.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And what you speak to your students about as well.
Like often I'll speak to mystudents and think, well, I
could really do with some ofthat as well.
You know, and I learn from them100%.
You know, by watching them I'mlike, oh, that's amazing and I
get inspiration from them.
But yeah, it's about balancingwhat you're putting out and what
you're also receiving back in,and I think that's a really
important and to keep your focusreally clear.
(08:16):
You know, if your focus is tobe ready for the next audition,
are you, in that time, doing thesteps?
And it's not that we have towork 24-7 because you really
need downtime.
You know, at the beginning ofthis year I really took a few
months to just be a normalperson, to travel, to do all
those things.
It's a hard time to navigateand to not get a little bit lost
(08:37):
in that time you know, it's notsomething you get trained to
cope with or to go through aswell.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Not at all.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
And so I still struggle at times with figuring
out what I'm doing and is theregoing to be another job?
You know every person, and Ithink something important for
tertiary age students or peopleentering the industry is that
I'm sure every person thinksthat their job, that they have,
is their last job.
You know, like I always say topeople I'm like I might never
(09:04):
work again.
You know, like I'm sure that'snot going to be true, I know but
in the moment, in the momentyou're like, well, this could be
it, you know.
So I think that everyone thinksthat, no matter what age or
level.
I think, don't you think?
I think so yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah Well, you just don't know.
I mean it's two edged sword,because you can feel that.
But also when you're cominginto the industry you feel that
when you've got it, you've madeit, and then all of a sudden
everything's just going to beeasily booked and breezy for the
.
You know, you never actuallythink I mean me going.
When I was starting I justthought you just think in the
now You're not really everthinking about in a few years
You're just like well, I've madeit, it's here Now it's just
(09:37):
going to be my career foreverand then you'll have I've had
like seven months off or 12months off, all these different
things and you always at the endyou're just back not
(09:58):
necessarily to things.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Oh, oh, my god, is this my?
Is this an interpretive dancemoment for the two of us?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
okay, I'm ready to sing I mean you can't read no,
so that's funny.
I may even keep that in.
I don't know if I can copyright, but I put these like
manifestation things at acertain at alarms.
So at two, two, two, it will gooff and be like you you're in
the exact right or whatever itwas.
So there you go, I love it, andthen I just get to dance.
Interrupts the day.
Oh my gosh, yes, where were you?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Well, you were talking about that, yeah, and
what I think you're actuallysaying is I think you've been
very good at living in themoment and accepting where
you're at and not thinking toomuch about the future.
See, I actually feel a littlebit differently at this point in
my life where I'm more oftenlike what am I going to be doing
in five years?
How am I going to sustain this?
But I think that changes withexperience, age and just time,
(10:42):
and I think you probably gothrough different levels of that
where you're a little bit morefree-flying and living in the
now and a bit more panickedabout you know.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And I think it's more the more time you work saying
in quotations like on yourself,or the more you can trust your
own self or trust I don't knowjust kind of building a
lifestyle that you can enjoy andthe being around good people
and just kind of like trustingyour training and enjoying it.
It actually releases a lot ofthe pressure to you know, figure
(11:12):
it out.
Whatever that means and I feellike that's helped me a lot of
the time is knowing that.
No, actually I have trained forthis and if I performed before,
it means that I can definitelyperform again and you know I'm
always a big believer in youknow what's meant for you won't
pass you and this is exactlywhat you mean at that moment.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
And I know a lot of performers say that it's so true
though, what's meant for youwon't pass you.
I completely agree with this,and it can be really hard to
accept that sometimes, becausewe can have this idea that we're
so right for something, butthen, like, have you ever gone
to an audition?
And you realize that there's200 people that are also so
right for something?
And I'm sure that the people onthe panel wish that they could
give every person a job, but thereality is is that they can't.
It's a really hard thing.
I still, at this level, at thisage, this experience or whatever
(12:02):
, still question when I walk outof an audition if it's because
my skills weren't good enough orwhat you know.
And I know the answer to that.
I know the answer that you knowwhat's for you won't go past
you and you can't be right foreverything, and it's very much a
puzzle piece fitting a showtogether.
But as performers I don't knowif anyone else out there feels
like this but I still walk outquestioning my worth and my you
(12:25):
know, could I have done better?
Did I not sing great?
Was it this, was it that?
And then I tell my studentsit's not about that.
That it's about the piece ofthe puzzle.
But you know, I think keepingthat human and keeping that real
and vulnerable going I don'tknow if that ever changes, I
hope it will.
And I think I get stronger astime goes on and I think the
quality of time that I or thequantity of time I should say
(12:45):
that I spend thinking thatreduces and I have amazing
people around me that pull meout of that and say don don't be
silly, it's got nothing to dowith that.
But it is hard because we'reconstantly searching for not
just validation but likecertainty and a reason for
something.
You know, if we can have areason for it being that, then
yes, it was that you sung thatnote really badly, but it's
(13:07):
never that.
You know, I've gone into Imight have said this in the last
podcast I've gone intoauditions and done the worst
audition I've done and receivedthe job.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Oh no, and then?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
gone into auditions and thought I really did a great
job.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
So then, what are we doing?
Why do?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
we panic about that, you know.
Why don't we just let it be goon our journey, do our work and
then?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
And I think the more opportunities, the more
auditions you go to, you startto realize that more.
I think when we're starting outwe don't see it and we take it
really personal because ofcourse you've just spent so many
years developing all of thisonly to maybe just sing once and
then get cut.
So it can definitely feelpersonal.
But I think the more times yougo you can.
Actually I'm a massive advocatefor really reflecting and not
(13:47):
reflecting in a self-criticismway, but actually really
understanding about what thatprocess was for you.
You know really trying to bepresent so that you can pick up
things, you know the vibe of theroom, or there's just so many
little things that happen soquickly that you're unaware of
when you're starting.
And even now I'll go in and belike wait what?
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I've really been trying to.
It's interesting because Ithink reflection is very
important and I think it's sucha juxtaposition because I love
to reflect and I love to try tobe honest with myself but at the
same time I'm trying topractice the law of a little bit
of detachment to do with things, because I think we can become
very attached to the outcome.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Especially when you really love the show or you're
like this is it?
You've got to start to justdetach.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And I'm exploring with that and I still don't know
the way to do that.
If anyone who auditions meswitch off here, a part of that
is maybe not over-preparing, andthat's something that I've
never really done in my life.
I'm definitely a practice makesperfect person.
I love preparation andeverything we're taught is to
prepare the best you can.
However, with that, preparationbecomes my emotional attachment
(14:58):
to it, my love for it.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Because you're spending so much time with the
material, your connection to it.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yes, workshopping within my life.
How much can I learn andpresent an audition, a glimpse
of what this could be, and thenstep away from it without it
being?
Here's my finished product.
Here's everything you're goingto get and that could
potentially lose me jobs attimes, but it actually protects
my heart a little bit more, youknow.
So, not overspending too muchtime to perfect that, and I
(15:26):
don't know if that's the rightjourney for me.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Well, it also gives you room to take on direction as
well.
I know sometimes I've gone insuper prepared or I've done it
to the T that I couldn't changewhat I just rehearsed, because
when you're in the moment andyou're in fight or flight, your
body's in muscle memory, it'sgoing.
I've just rehearsed this, thisis what is safe, this is what is
known.
So, even trying I mean nowhaving more experience I can
(15:49):
develop it because I can be abit more present.
But when you're starting outand you've got that, it's really
hard to go away because it'seven more uncertain than the
moment that you're in there,which is filled with uncertainty
.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Which then again there's the juxtaposition,
because you want to go here's myskills, this is how good I can
be, or this is what I can offer,but then you want to be free
and moldable.
In that moment I don't know theanswer to it quite yet, but I
do know that attaching too muchto things for me doesn't have a
great outcome, because itcreates a lot more turmoil
(16:20):
within my heart and my mind whenI don't get something, which is
more often than not thepercentage that it happens.
You know, and from the outsideit probably looks like everyone
gets everything and it justlooks smooth sailing.
But, there's a lot of no's inthe industry.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I had another guest on just before and we were
talking about that.
I'm like, I feel like I knowsocial media is, you know we say
it's a highlight reel, but Ithink, you know, maybe there can
be room at some stages talkingabout things that haven't worked
, because that's, you know, 90%of the time, or you know a
shorter percent of the time,that that happens and it's
definitely a real thing.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Absolutely.
It happens more often than not.
You know and you can guarantee,just like when you get your
headshots taken.
You know if anyone that's had aheadshot.
You get 500 shots and you pickthree and you know what I'm
still not happy with those three.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Give me the folder.
Photographers are amazing.
How much is the folder?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
But you know, like finding three out of 500, that
you think I think that's okay.
So it's the same with yourhighlight reel on social media.
It's the same thing with youknow, gosh, anytime I and this
is a new world for me but, likeI'm saying, to appreciate the
imperfection of things you know,because we're not perfect I
know that every time I step onthe stage, I'm never going to,
I'm actually never going to givea perfect performance.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
And that's okay.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Yes, Because I'm human.
Yes, Although I would like someperfection.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
But yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
Well, why don't we get into afew little questions from the
community?
Let's go on auditions, becausewe're just talking a little bit
about that and you know the bigthing that people are going in
with is you get audition nerves,and so a question here is how
can I manage audition nerves andshow up as your best self in an
audition?
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Audition nerves.
It's really.
They're a bizarre thing becauseI feel like they hit you really
unexpectedly, like I have wokenup some mornings, especially
when I was younger.
I used to get nervous from thesecond I woke up.
Oh it's the big day of theaudition.
Now I kind of go about my day,rock up to the audition.
I'll be pretty chill, and thenall of a sudden you stand on
(18:21):
that X and like I remember anaudition I did last year
Actually you know what it wasfor Sunset Boulevard.
Here we go, full disclosure.
Now I knew I wasn't right forthe show, but I really wanted to
do an audition and I reallywanted to work on something I
hadn't auditioned for a reallylong time.
So I was pretty chilled.
I was like I'm not going tobook this show.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
We're going to Singapore in February.
There's some openings.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I walked in, I said hi, stood on the X, I'm all
chill and the music starts andmy knee starts shaking and I'm
like everyone's looking at meand I'm about to start singing
and in my head I'm not thinkingabout the song, I'm thinking why
, is my knee shaking.
I'm not even nervous and I hadthis real like conflict in my
head, being like what's going on?
And my body went into thisresponse where I was like, okay,
(19:14):
I guess I am nervous and I sungthe song and it was all fine,
but all I was thinking about wasmy shaking knee.
You shake your leg and it's sobizarre because I really didn't
expect that to be nerve-wracking.
And then I've gone into otherauditions and haven't felt a
glimpse of nerve.
So it's unpredictable and thishas happened on stage to me
before.
No nerves before a show.
(19:35):
All of a sudden, bam wham.
Thank you, ma'am, you'rewelcome.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I've had an opposite experience to you as well that I
now with auditions.
I'll be nervous prior, but assoon as I enter the door of like
the complex I just go likesuper chill.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I think I prefer that version At least.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I don't know what it is.
I mean, yeah, just trying tolike.
Maybe it's just like I might Idon't know, but it's funny how
it works for so many differentpeople and, depending on the
show and how much I want it to,that's a whole different thing
More of detachment.
I know, because you're like oh,you know.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I think what I've learnt is and going back, I said
this just before I've gone inand done my worst auditions and
gotten the job, so really Iwonder how much it matters.
You know, I think we getnervous because we want to do
well, we don't want todisappoint ourselves, mostly
myself.
It's not even to do with thepanel, it's to do with, like
(20:30):
you've worked so hard on this,like an opening night.
I get nervous because I think,oh, we've done all this work,
you want it to be a good showthat you know you can do.
So if you take away thatpressure and I often think, say
an opening night, I'll use thisas an example.
What's the worst that canhappen?
I forget the lyrics.
It's happened before in shows.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
I remember once it wasn't in a show, but I was
teching for Evita I understudiedthe role of Ava Perron and I
was so excited to do this tech.
You know dream role.
And I get to Buenos Aires andwe're singing the song and all
of a sudden there's like thisfast moment that she sings and
(21:11):
all of a sudden I was just like,ah.
I remember my friend ChrisScalzo was singing the wings and
he was yelling out the lyricsto me and you know, like I
thought you know, if thathappened in the show, the tech
went on.
The tech went on.
If you fall, if you forgot yourwords, if you forgot the song,
someone would it actually makesit even more enjoyable yes,
(21:31):
right as well.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Right, if that happens in a show I'm like this
is fantastic if they weren'tcaptivated they are now.
They're like let's go, and Ikind of lean into that being
like you know what if somethingwent drastically wrong?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
what a great story for everyone to take away.
So I kind of go into openingnights like that and I'm trying
so hard to be like what's theworst that can happen?
Not anything that hasn'thappened to you before and it
happens very rarely.
And then an audition is likethe panel.
I'm sure I've sat on the otherside as a reader and seen you
can tell when someone's nervousand you don't judge their
(22:04):
performance on that.
You know I say take a breath,start something again, tell them
you're nervous.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
They probably know it is a nerve-wracking Of course
it is, and I think publicspeaking is the most like feared
, like common fear in the world.
And when, then, you've beenasked to sing and dance or act
in front of a panel that you'reliterally being asked to present
to see if you have what ittakes to be in the show, Like
(22:30):
that just puts it on a wholeother level.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
It does.
And, like when I've spoken to alot of creatives, they often
say, oh, I don't know how youguys audition.
Yeah, I'm like, thank you, it'sso hard.
So they have empathy for thatand they can see past that and
they all want you to do well.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
They can see past it and they all want you to do well
, like everyone in the roomthere wants you to do well and
they're there to actuallysupport you more than we think I
think a lot of the time.
But yeah, it goes back to whatyou were saying, that ultimately
, yes, we're wanting to do wellfor others, but really what
we're looking for is to do forus to feel like we did the best
we could, and sometimes nervesdoes take it out of us, but I
(23:04):
think each time it's just thatlearning experience and the more
I always say you know peoplethat are nervous about auditions
it's just a new skill, likewhen you started dancing for the
first time or you startedseeing or acting that first
class.
You have no idea what's goingon.
Yeah, I can tell you many timeswhere I was just felt so out of
place and, yes, that we cantake the skills that we learned
(23:27):
in the training and do it inaudition.
The whole audition experienceis another new skill.
So I think, just doing it moreand more and I mean even saying
that I've worked with so manypeople that have been in the
industry for 20 something yearsthat still get nervous and still
I don't.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I don't know if that ever changes.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yes, I don't think it changes.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
You know, when I was younger, the way I kind of
combated that was I askedfriends, colleagues, people
around me to sit down and watchmy audition before I went in.
You know, and that really helps.
You know, especially someoneyou respect or that you know,
and to see if you can get thosenerves up and to sit, like even
(24:04):
your family members and myfamily are lovely critics of
mine, yeah, especially mygrandparents.
My grandmothers are the bestones.
So I get them to sit down andlisten to me and they'll give me
the truth.
So they actually make me themost nervous because they don't
hold anything back.
You know, I think one of mynans said to me sometimes it's
like it's very loud and why doyou do that thing with your
(24:26):
voice, that shaky thing, and Iwas like vibrato, it's very loud
and why do you do that thingwith your voice that shaky thing
and I was like vibrato, vibrato, jeez.
Thanks, nan.
But you know, I think that wasreally helpful and I still do
that if I need it, you know, andlean on your friends that are
in the industry as well.
So I do mind if I do this foryou, because we don't have the
opportunity to do it very often.
So if we can create that,that's really helpful.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Oh my gosh, there's been some times where I've
self-sabotaged myself picking anew song and then to sing for
the audition and I didn't evenpractice it with a pianist.
I'm like, yeah, I'll be fine,I'll just practice it with my
old YouTube backing track athome, not share it with anyone.
I'll be fine, go in.
And I think one section was inmy head voice and something Fine
(25:07):
go in and I think one sectionwas in like my head voice and
something.
Oh well, when you're in thereand you have to fully present it
and you're not used to doing itwith a.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Did you learn from that one?
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well, let's just say I didn't get that show.
I was like, oh, that was not agood choice, but I mean, in that
it's, you know, able to laughafter and be like, okay, that's
not what worked.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
These work, that these make the best story.
I know that's why you needthose moments that don't go so
well, because I don't know theymake us human.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
what was that for?
I think it was for like frozenor something and, um, I think
the music director at the time Iwas I was doing charlie and
chocolate factory, so I thinkshe was doing it as well at the
time and so she's like I'm likebooked you and probably bob
Bobby's just said really goodthings about me coming in and
I've just gone.
It's still pretty good.
(25:53):
So, yeah, it's funny how eachexperience shapes you and you
can learn from it each time.
Yeah, all right.
So coming into about buildingand sustaining this wild career
that we call musical theatre,what would you say the first
steps that students or newgraduates can take when entering
the industry?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You know, I think musical theatre is really
interesting because it's veryclear, it's a very clear skill
set.
Right, you've got singing,dancing, acting, right Like, and
if you mush them all together,it's performance.
And you know, I think that itjust creates a very clear
(26:34):
guideline and we can reallyfocus on three areas.
Clearly, you know, it's notthis ambiguous thing I feel like
, um, say, like acting thisambiguous element of who are you
, what is it?
And musical theater has anelement of who are you, what is
it?
And musical theatre has anelement of that, but it's just
defined more clearly.
It's like you work on yourvoice, you work on your dance
(26:57):
skills, you work on your actingand your script interpretation,
and then you mush it alltogether and there you go, your
performance skills.
But I think that stepping out oftertiary education and stepping
out of full-time training orinto the industry, I think it's
just about being economical withyour time and setting clear
goals for your week.
(27:17):
You know, and let's look at itlike this I talk to my students
about this all the time If youwere going to go to the gym,
right, you could just go to thegym every day and just fluff
around the gym and just like,lift a couple of weights, walk
on the treadmill, and that'sgreat, you're moving your body,
that's wonderful.
But if you wanted to seeresults from that, you would
probably work toward a programat the gym, right.
(27:38):
So you get specific about that,so you can see growth.
And I think our careers arevery and our skill sets are very
similar Work specifically, go.
Okay, you know what?
I'm not great at picking upchoreography.
So I'm going to go to a hip hopclass or, like you know,
whatever, something that's moreintricate, so I can really a
commercialized class, so I canfocus on those little details.
(28:02):
Or, you know, I want to improvemy range singing and create a
stronger head voice or whateverit might be.
So you can just be specificabout that, as opposed to I
don't know where to start.
You know I want to work on myrepertoire so you can put away
some time in the day to sit downand listen to music and figure
out what suits you.
I think that's the beingspecific and economical about
(28:22):
your.
Time is probably and you'veprobably come out of a training
where you're there nine to fiveor nine to four or five days a
week and they're giving youeverything to do.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
And so you've got to start doing that for yourself.
And it definitely does change,because obviously we don't spend
nine to four every day trainingwhen you're out.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Absolutely not, please don't, goodness gracious,
I don't want to go back to that.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I look at it full time and say you're amazing, how
did I do that?
I'm not sure, but I think justreally prioritizing specific
things and making sure that whenyou do it commit wholly to that
moment.
You know, if you're going to gointo an hour and a half dance
class, commit to that one hourand a half, the best that you
can 110% Then you can have therest of your day.
(29:08):
It's not about fitting in asmuch as you possibly can, it's
about doing it reallyefficiently.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I think with that you're able to actually excel
faster, because you're reallydialing in where you want to
give your time, as opposed towhen you are training.
You're kind of getting this bigumbrella of everything to make
you improve, but when you havetime to yourself you can
actually go right.
No, I really want to dial intothis this week or, you know, be
(29:33):
really specific on that and youactually get control over that
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Look at it like learning a song.
Right, you can learn a song andjust try to put everything in
at once the performance, thenotes, the thing and then it
might be a bit approximate or itmight be not quite detailed
enough.
So if you really broke that upand was like, okay, this week
I'm just going to focus on whatthe notes I'm meant to be
singing, next week I'm going toactually think about what I'm
singing or whichever order youmight want to do it.
So, and that might not work foreveryone, but just being more
(30:00):
specific about things mightactually get you to the result
that you want a little bitquicker or a bit more detailed
or a little bit more efficiently.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, and we spoke about building a routine on our
Facebook group that we have.
So if anyone wants to go andcheck that out, it's actually
I'll put it in the show notesbelow.
Anyone can join for free.
We actually did a five-daymindset challenge on there where
we had five different industryguests on there talk about
specific things and you came onand spoke about how to basically
how to build a routine and whatthat looks like.
So, if anyone wants to, I thinkit was like 45 minutes or
(30:30):
nearly an hour.
We went into all of it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
We know how to talk.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
We know how to talk, we love it and a lot of people
got a lot of value from that.
So if anyone wants to go checkthat out and join that group,
I'm actually starting monthlyworkshops on there, based in
mindset on there.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
So if anyone wants to come and check that out go
check that out.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I'd love to that's it Well, as we kind of come to the
end of this podcast, I mean Ifeel like we could just talk
forever about different things.
When people are coming out offull time and they've come from
this massive structured life,and when you're building that
kind of routine for yourself, Ifeel like there's going to be a
wave of people not knowing whatis enough.
(31:07):
Like how much time spending onsomething is enough.
Like what can that structurekind of look like in my week to
feel that I'm, you know, usingmy time efficiently?
But also, do you know what I'mkind of?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
trying to say I do, and I think we just kind of we
kind of covered that and I thinkthat sometimes, because you've
come out of this full timetraining, we think that that's
what we have to continue on with.
But I don't think it'snecessary.
I think, as I said, like wespoke about, I think more
specific training, more focusedtraining, is more beneficial,
(31:39):
but that's for me personally andit might be so different.
You know, as I said, I camefrom a practice makes perfect
background that I had to learnall of my skills.
I had to, you know, sit at thatpiano until I sung the right
note.
I have to practice that turn 50times till I can actually nail
it once.
But what I have discovered overthe years is that we can waste a
(32:00):
lot of time in that, you know,procrastination, and so if we
really just focus it down andespecially there's so many
distractions in life now, youknow so if we really focus that
training, we don't have to dosix hours a day.
You can do one hour a day andjust make it very focused and
just, I think making sure thatyou're not sitting in your
(32:21):
comfort zone all the time, and Ithink especially when you come
out of training is the time toreally expand that Take risks.
Take risks, go to classes thatyou wouldn't usually go to, and
who knows what you might learn.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
It might be the thing you start to fall in love with,
and you go down that rabbithole.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Absolutely.
Like you know, my favouritething is I go to a Latin fusion
class with Neville on aWednesday at Circle Studios and
I am so bad at it, like I am, somy hips do not lie.
No, I see there, you turn itout.
No, fake it till you make itbaby.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
And that's what I love about Nevs is that he's all
about that.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
But you know, like I have the best fun.
I actually said to him a fewweeks ago I was like I'm the
worst at your class and I loveit so much because I love I
watch his hips go and his legsand just ballroom is not my
thing.
I really wish it was because Ilove it so much.
But I just kind of get in thereand like you know what I'd have
to be the best Latin fusiondancer in this room.
(33:17):
But who knows what skills Imight take out of this once.
One perseverance and pushingthrough the discomfort.
But two is that you know Imight not get that cha-cha step
exactly right, but there mightbe a time in my life in the
future that has that.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
And you go oh, I'm like, oh, no, I know how to do
this.
You'll call Neville.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Hey, neville, I did it, but I think, yeah, not
sticking into your comfort zoneand making sure that you're
pushing yourself in the areasthat feel a little bit scary
still, because maybe you comefrom, you know, being a big fish
in a small pond and then it'sreversed so you need.
It's going to be a new step,it's going to be scary, it's
going to make friends.
Go to you know, take yourfriends.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Like, I guess, if you've just finished and there's
a, I'm sure there's a wholebunch of people that are doing
that are in the same boat as you.
You know, maybe make a pact,we're going to this class, let's
keep it going, let's do that,and I know that in full time you
always have those two threefriends, that would absolutely
be on board as well.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, and then you can encourage each other and
that always helps.
Like we've got that community.
Now People will be like are yougoing to class?
And then someone might saythey're going to class.
I'm like okay.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Even if great time to be in the same area as each
other.
What's been awesome having youon.
Is there any final advice thatyou would give students that are
emerging into the industry?
Speaker 2 (34:33):
We talked about that.
I've been teaching a lot and Ithink it's don't waste any time
to expose yourself in the waythat I'm saying.
You know, often I say just gofor it, just go for it, just go
for it, and it leads back to, Iguess, perfectionism, and I talk
(34:54):
to my students a lot about this.
I'm seeing a lot ofperfectionism in and gosh,
goodness gracious, I'm speaking,you know, do as I say, not as I
do, but I see everyone tryingto get the steps perfect and the
technique perfect and singerperfect, and what if we just
ruffled that up a little bit andwas just like but who are you?
And I think that the mostimportant part is to go, what do
(35:16):
you have to offer?
And I think, yeah, justcommitting to things a little
bit more.
I think I'm seeing that a littlebit when I'm teaching.
It's like just go from itstraight, straight away, you
know, and and easier said thandone, because you're trying to
find yourself, you're trying tofind where you fit.
And I do this to myself all thetime Just commit, just commit
straight away and see whathappens.
(35:36):
So I think that's what I'mseeing the most, because there
are so many talented peoplecoming out of institutions and
tertiary studies and they've allgot the skills already.
In fact, you know what.
They're all better than me.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
They really are.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I look at my students and I'm like, well, I can't do
that, no, no, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
All this new wave of talent that comes through is
incredible.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Talent is amazing and I guess when?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
you're in that you don't know any different.
You just think that.
I think it's that thing of.
I mean, when we see the WestEnd as Australians or Broadway,
we just put it on such a highpedestal so we trained so hard.
And then I remember going tothe UK and seeing the West End
show and it wasn't that it wasterrible.
I was just like, oh, like itwasn't like you realised that
you could do that.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
So you actually what you're saying is that you put it
on a pedestal but actuallyyou're on that too and that we
don't.
We can never reflect back andsee our own worth, and I think
that's something that we're allalways trying to work on.
And how do you see your ownworth, how do you validate
yourself in that way?
And that's something that Idon't think you have the answer
(36:40):
to.
I don't think there's a magicpotion and go.
This is the answer to that.
It's about living through itand having those moments where
you go and see a show and go.
Oh, I think I could do that,you know.
That's it yeah.
So I think it's super importantto validate ourselves in those
ways.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I love that I've literally just made an audition
confidence toolkit that is, astep-by-step guide to
self-validated confidence.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Fantastic.
Can you send that to me?
I'll send it, yes.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
I will.
Well, I'll absolutelydefinitely send it and I'll put
it in the show notes for anyonethat wants to check it out.
But thank you so much for beingon again and, who knows, maybe
there will be a part three.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Everyone's like get her off.
You're amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Thank you for having me.
Thank you, thank you.
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