Exploring AI's Role in Law and Innovation: Insights with Kevin Rowe

Ready to explore the fascinating intersection of law, business, and technology? 

Join us on "The Doctor and the DJ" as we welcome Kevin Rowe from Lerner and Rowe to unpack the transformative role of AI in the legal industry. Kevin shares his unique insights on how AI is not just a tool but a catalyst for change, reshaping everything from case management to data handling. We promise you'll walk away with a deeper understanding of AI's potential, its challenges, and the opportunities it creates in legal and radio industries, as well as a fresh perspective on how technology has historically been met with skepticism before becoming essential.

For those curious about the future of marketing and personal efficiency, we discuss how AI avatars and platforms like ChatGPT are revolutionizing content creation and personal tasks. From crafting compelling recommendation letters to efficiently managing social media, discover how these innovations allow professionals to focus on what truly matters. We also delve into the intriguing world of stem cell treatments, where personal anecdotes bring to light their potential impact on health and the pharmaceutical industry. Our exploration includes a candid look at the misconceptions and legal hurdles surrounding these treatments.

Finally, our episode examines the evolution of the legal landscape, including the exciting possibilities of law firm philanthropy and innovative management strategies. Learn about the legal victories against giants like Walmart and the implications of new regulations that allow non-lawyer ownership of law firms in Arizona. If you're intrigued by the blend of tradition and innovation, you'll appreciate our discussion on optimizing sleep habits with technology, highlighting everything from sleep gadgets to AI-driven solutions.

This episode is packed with insights that challenge the status quo, offering listeners a thoughtful mix of technology, law, and personal growth.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:17):
so here's the deal.
This is our podcast called thedoctor and the dj, dr carrie
bordinco.
She's a dj or she's a doctor,no just got promoted.
I'm the DJ from John J RichKiss FM.
And then our guest is KevinRowe from Lerner and Rowe.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Do we get to sing the song?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
I always have a problem singing the song because
I know the jingle.
Tell me the jingle and throwthe number.
Lerner and Rowe is the way togo.
Come on, that's what I alwaysgrow 9-.
You got some of it buddy.
So this podcast that we'redoing like is we might change
the name.
Right, you got to be somewhere,you might not.

(00:52):
It's rude looking at your watch, no.
I'm trying to do an intro.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Unlike you, I get little notifications.
I have to know what they are.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
Oh, I know 97,000 emails.
You don't worry about it.
That's why I don't have one ofthose watches.
Because of that purpose, by theway.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Because you get text messages all the time.
I actually took my Apple Watchoff for this because I did not
want to be notified.
Kevin See so.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I'm trying to burn calories here.
We're going to our podcast.
Kevin is mostly like healthnutrition, but we wanted to open
up to all kinds of stuff, right?

Speaker 2 (01:26):
And of stuff right.
And Carrie's idea was oh, Iwant to talk about the influence
of AI on the legal system,Because I know you and I had a
little sidebar a couple weeksago and you were giving me some
things I really never eventhought about.
Of course, there's a lot of AIinfluence coming into medicine
right now.
So, I'm in my own little worldon how that's going to impact
change, but I think people donot really understand the full
reach of how this could changethe legal system, so we want you

(01:47):
to talk to us about that.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, I think to start off with things.
I'll talk more in general andthen about personal injury a lot
of my opinions on it, becausethere's a lot of change, I think
, coming.
You know, with change there's alot of hesitation, even as a
business owner myself and mypartner we're worried about how
things are gonna be playing outin the future.
But you also have to grasp it.

(02:09):
You have to just roll with it,learn it, because the old ways
of even marketing or the oldways of handling cases are not
the same.
I mean, I look at when I'mdating myself, but when I first
started out you used to write ona six by five card.
You know the client's name andthen the next thing you're

(02:29):
supposed to do on the case andput it in there.
And then you put it on the dateYou're supposed to, you know,
make that, whatever that taskwas that day.
And so when you came to thatday you'd have all your cards
for that day and all the tasksyou're supposed to do.
Rudimentary.
We had our computers back thenwith what IBM's and the green
screens.
You're really excited when yougraduated up to the amber

(02:50):
screens.
It was really high tech then.
Well things, a lot of change,you know, having software CRM
case management systems has beena game changer and in personal
injury field and for all lawyers.
It has to do with how you'rehandling data, where data can be
located, what kind of reportsyou can extract with that data.

(03:13):
You know, it hasn't even beenthat long.
Maybe 10 years ago, probably 10years ago, a new CRM-based
system for all calls that arecoming into a law firm came out.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
What's CRM mean?

Speaker 3 (03:29):
It's basically a case management software.
Oh so handling that guy?

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Is that AI?

Speaker 3 (03:33):
No, no, no, not yet, but that's my whole point.
Back in the day, when we wentfrom everything being
handwritten and put in the fileeverything you know.
If you lose the file, you'redone, because everything you got
in that file is handwritten.
It's not backed up in any way.
Then, moving into the computerera, which is what 85, 87, um,
maybe even 90 that you're nowhave computers, that you're

(03:54):
starting to store stuff on there.
At the beginning they were justfor writing letters.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
You know emails adding emails?

Speaker 3 (04:00):
yeah, maybe a little bit, but emails weren't
acceptable as a form ofcommunication in the legal field
, and not at the beginning.
So you're writing letters, youknow typing instead of using a
typewriter because that was theacceptable way, and now you're
at least using a Word softwareto actually perform those tasks
and you could save them on afloppy disk and put the disk in
the file and, you know, keepusing that.

(04:22):
But people were really scaredon how that was going to happen
back then and what that wasgoing to do, and a job's going
to be lost, because now we don'tneed all these different people
to do these different things.
You know it's now, computersare watching and, excuse me, are
storing all that data.
But then you fast forward.
What, 20, 30 years later?

(04:42):
And now you've got the, the ai.
We've been talking about ai ingeneral for years, but it seems
in the last eight months atleast in the legal field, it has
skyrocketed that almost everyweek there's a new software
platform coming out for personalinjury lawyers or for lawyers

(05:02):
in general but to use like how.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
So Like, hey, I was in a car accident, help me do a
case and it goes boop.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
It'll just tell you no, so it's well, unfortunately,
it does do some of that stuff,and what we were talking about
earlier is there's different AIs.
You have open AI, which is likeyour chat, gpt, and all that
different stuff.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
Which is not confidential, correct?

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Correct, and it's not necessarily correct in the
information it's grabbing fromit's open source, so people can
put different information onhere.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I don't know if everybody understands that.
Actually about open AI.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Whatever you feed the animal, the AI beast that
you're putting the informationin that's what it's taking and
learning from.
So the prime example in thelegal field was that lawyer that
was in New York that wasresponding to a brief using
ChatGPT and the AI andinformation it generated, so it
wrote his brief for him.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Was that bad?

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, it's bad if you're not checking the facts of
your brief, because it startedciting cases that didn't exist.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
They weren't real.
And so when he didn't factcheck and he sent it in to the
court, the court fact checkedand they realized these things
don't exist and it blew up thathe used chat gpt oh, that's
incredible.
So back to just the software inof itself.
There's lots of new softwarecoming out and you ask what are
you using it for?
Well, you have new softwarethat is for intake and that's

(06:26):
for your initial business.
Calls leads from either chats,from social media, from phone
calls that are coming in, andhow it tracks all that
information.
That's software that's comingout right now.
We are going on to a newsoftware platform for us.
It's been around a little bit,but they've really pushed AI on
this platform.
Um, it's a closed ai withinthis legal platform, so they

(06:49):
have 5 000 plus law firms.
So the 5 000 law firms that areon this platform, they're
feeding the beast, the ai buthow do you guys use it?
I'm gonna tell you here's areally cool way.
So if you have a deposition andyou have a thousand page
medical records, you know itwould typically take a paralegal
or a lawyer who's going toreview it, to summarize those

(07:11):
medical records.
It would take three to fourdays, maybe three days, because
you're really you're writingeverything, you're typing
everything out and and doing alot of stuff.
It probably took three days.
You know six hours a day thatthey're actually doing it.
Um, ai now can do it in 30seconds, and 30 seconds to the
point that it's so accurate thatit's pulling out the diagnostic
code and it's giving you ahyperlink let's just use, you

(07:35):
know, the traumatic brain injurytbi that it's looking for.
It will group everything thatand the page that tbi is
mentioned, traumatic brain braininjury is mentioned.
So if you had to go back andthere's a certain you wanted a
reference in your deposition orwhich we're writing, uh, a brief
or something you want to goback and just click the
hyperlink and it'll take youback to the pages.

(07:55):
So that's good, it's great.
Oh, ai, I think as a whole, isgoing to make law firms.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
It's going to make any business I think people are
afraid afraid of it, just likeyou said about everything else,
because it's in the radiobusiness right now.
I was just at a big radioconvention a couple weeks ago
and the big thing was everyonewas scared of AI and they're
anti-AI.
And the thing about AI there'sactually a whole radio station
somewhere in Portland.
I think that is just AI.
It's a woman DJ that doeswhatever, but you can kind of of

(08:22):
if it's long form audio, youcan tell eventually that it's a
computer.
Um, but the thing about ai isit doesn't really know humor, so
it doesn't really.
You know there's personalitytraits that it can't do.
But I remember people wereafraid of compact discs.
People got way afraid ofnapster and online music and
downloads, especially theartists, and now that's the way
music comes out.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Now again, it's change and I think you're kind
of hitting the nail on the headthat I think what people are
really scared of is AI is goingto make you more efficient.
Yeah, whereas one person couldhandle X amount of files, now
with the use of AI that personcan probably double, triple, and
I'm not saying if you can havebeen.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
So then you'll reduce your staff.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
That's where people are afraid that could absolutely
sure seem like all these djs,you know?

Speaker 2 (09:06):
oh, my god ai, I'm gonna lose my job yeah, but half
the time what we find out is werepurpose those individuals to
do another, more important job Imean, I don't I don't know at
any point in time where we standaround looking.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
You know that we have to excess labor right now, so
this is a good thing yeah, no,look as a look as a business
owner, it's a little scary, butalso a great thing, I mean, if
it's going to make you moreefficient, if it's going to make
you more accurate, because atthe end of the day think about
this there was.
My dad told me this, sent methis email, let's say 15 or 12,

(09:38):
15 years ago.
And you know Dahmer Chrysler,dahmer Mercedes, yes, so he
wrote the top what was it like?
Top 100 businesses orprofessions that will not be
around by 2035.
And, of course, legal's inthere.
And this was written 15 yearsago, 12 to 15 years ago.

(09:58):
And he's saying at that timethat IBM, watson, ai can, at
that time, answer legalquestions, you know, 100% faster
, with more accuracy, than ahuman can.
So you're looking at thesestats that they have then and
you're like, oh my god, you knowthis is happening now, not 2035

(10:21):
.
I think 2035 is too far downthe road.
I think you're going to seesome drastic changes.
You know my opinion, because mypartner says, no, you're off,
but my opinion I think it'sgoing to be five years or less
will be drastic changes on howpersonal injury accidents are
handled between law firms, and Ican even quote that because it
may not necessarily be law firmsand insurance companies.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
So you might have AI talking to the insurance
companies, ai and just work itout without, and then hey,
here's the result.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Take it right so we've had this conversation
quite a bit that, um, that'swhat's going to happen.
I mean insurance companies wantto cut costs.
I mean they're they're therates.
Auto rates in california lastyear alone or this past year
alone went up 54.
Here here in Arizona they're upover 22% and continuing to rise
because the costs of they addit all in.

(11:10):
When they do these things, likein California, they talk about
the natural disasters and thefires and homeowners.
I mean they're leaving.
Most of the big-name insurersare not insuring homes anymore
in California.
They've left and you're goingto see that kind of all over
because it's too expensive.
So when you're talking, if youhave an adjuster who's a claims

(11:31):
representative who willadjudicate a case and try and
resolve it in pre-litigation, sobefore a complaint has been
filed, if you have an adjuster,you're paying that adjuster X
amount of money anywhere fromnowadays probably $70,000 could
be to a supervisor, 150,000 ormore.
You have that person.
There's multiple people.
Like I said, you have theclaims adjuster, then you have a
property damage adjuster, youhave a bodily injury adjuster,

(11:52):
you have supervisors for thosedepartments.
There's a whole bunch of peoplethat are involved.
Well, just like you just said,imagine if let's just say I
developed an app or anapplication of some sort that I
went on TV and said hey, our lawfirm.
You know, we're the realdiscount lawyers.
Now I can't say that becausethere's somebody out there that

(12:12):
has a discount lawyer.
But what if I said here's atrue discount.
We'll take your case for 9%.
Whoa, right now, you know, theaverage is 33 and a third, or
35%, some are doing 30%, someare doing even higher, and I
just come out there and say I'lldo it for 9%.
But really, what is that 9%going to get you?
Well, think about this.
If I go ahead and say you wantto sign up with me, you're going

(12:36):
to do all the work.
So you're going to upload yourmedical records, you're going to
upload your pictures, all stuff.
That's super easy because we'reall used to, it's all on our
phone now anyways, you know.
And the other big thing that'sgoing to happen ai is going to
help us with these hospitals andand medical clinics and all
these different places that havemedical records.
It's going to be easier toobtain all these records.

(12:57):
So now, instead of having to gowrite an authorization, go
there, pay 10 bucks or whateverit is, to get your records.
Now it's all going to beelectronic.
It is already electronic butthere's going to be sourced on
how to get them right to yourphone.
You're going to try to uploadthem to the app and then, when
it's all done, you're donetreating, you have all your
stuff in there the app will putit in a form that needs to be
put in and then sending it overto the demand, over to the

(13:19):
insurance company, and then theinsurance company ai will then
see if it can negotiate asettlement.
If it can't negotiate asettlement, I realize so you
probably gotta approve ahead oftime.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Do you agree to go ai right, right, so then they work
it out rudimentary, without adoubt.

Speaker 3 (13:34):
But just in general speaking, I mean, think about
this.
That then you have, I mean, theclient's one who has the
authority to do it, accept ornot, and to which way they to do
it.
But there's a couple differentthings that will be taking place
here.
You know, one thing is, let'ssay there's something in the
medical records that shows anexperienced attorney that, hey,

(13:54):
this shouldn't just go the AIroute.
So we could be, because it'sour law firm, be scrubbing
medical records independently tosee what this client has and,
as you're scrubbing, looking forit again.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm just using an example Keyword search of some
sort, keywords that come out.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Let's say TBI boom shows up, or ridiculous
symptomatology shows up, orsomething shows up that could be
more indicative of substantialinjury that is only being looked
at as soft tissue now.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, but the computer could be the one that
finds the keyword and then feedsit over to you to say hey, pull
this out, look at this Then,and that's it.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
And then you're turning around going back to
that individual hey, I know yousigned up for 9%, but look, I
think at the end of the day,your claim is worth a lot more
than you think it is.
We think we can help you.
And then you have anotheroption and that could be another
option for us to the ability tolitigate.

(14:45):
So, like I just give an exampleof summarizing medical records,
um making charts or or diagramsso it's going to eliminate
paralegals?

Speaker 1 (14:57):
again you don't want to say that I want to say it's
going to eliminate reallyanybody.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I think it's just increasing efficiency I mean if
kevin doesn't get drawn into allthese cases, that all cases are
important, right, but hedoesn't get drawn into the ones
that are rudimentary, that areeasy to settle, and he can focus
his time and talent on a casethat really has true relevance,
you know, to that consumer.
I think it enhances theconsumer.
I think it's no different thanwhat we're looking at in

(15:20):
medicine with AI.
You know, it's not that everycase is not important, every
diagnosis is not important, butthere are certain things that AI
does a very efficient job ofhelping to educate, maybe has
even more time to educate thanthe doctor has time, and then we
can pull our time aside, lookfor those complicated cases that
just don't fit any algorithmand spend time helping people
get better faster.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
Couldn't agree more and that's really it.
Sure, everybody's case isimportant to them and it's
important to us 100%.
But if you just have softtissue injury, sprains and
strains, and you're donetreating after six weeks and
you're back to normal, great,fantastic.
But you don't really need us asmuch as if you have more
complex injuries that are downthe line that we actually have

(16:04):
to not only make sure theinjuries have been diagnosed, um
, and they're seeing the properdoctors, and doctors are, um,
you know, treating themcorrectly.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
I shouldn't say well, have you used?
Have you personally used ai yet?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
so I have, but on simple stuff like I was
explaining to you, so likerecords, reviews, and that we
were amazed that what it's ableto pull out Cause you're talking
, I mean CPT codes, icd, ninecodes are all medical coding
that helps with diagnosis andbilling.
All those codes are are superhelpful for us.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
I use AI, um, and I really like it for things like,
um, this guy, no, wants to be my.
My son's high school coach quit, so they need a new high school
coach.
And a friend of mine says, hey,could you write me a letter of
recommendation?
And I was like, sure, and I'mhorrible at writing.
So I go to the chat GPT and Iliterally it's like I'm talking

(17:00):
to a dude I go hey, I need youto write me a short email that
talks about this person and whata great person he is.
He played basketball overseas.
His dad was the first PhoenixSuns.
He's a great guy.
He's been with these kids sincethey were a kid.
And this AI within seconds itwrote the most beautiful.
I copied it.
I put his name to who I'mmaking certain Boom, boom.
I sent it to the athleticdirector of the school.
Then I copied the guy.
The guy sent me back.

(17:26):
He goes oh my God, he doesn'tknow his AI, his ai.
He goes this made me cry.
Now he will.
Now.
Hey, jimmy, that was for you,but jimmy cried and he cried and
he said it was unbelievable andI was like I could have never
done that myself so here'ssomething crazy that other ways
I'm using ai and it's kind of upin the marketing alley.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Um, you know, doing a podcast or doing commercials or
radio cuts, you know we do allthese things.
I'll come with you and we'll do.
You've been with us when wefilm commercials, tv commercials
and radio spots and all thatstuff.
It takes a lot of time,especially to write them.
So you just talked about sure,we've used chat bt, chat gpt to
write radio scripts or tvscripts.
We've definitely used thatbefore.

(17:58):
Um, there's a new way.
It was social media.
It just takes up so much time,energy and effort to do social
media clips.
So instead I have an avatar.
Oh, and my avatar does all theclips.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
You mean a little cartoon avatar or like a human
avatar?
It looks like you.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Meaning it is me, oh, and you think it's me and
everybody thinks it's me, butit's not.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Has it already hit.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
So there are some things and you kind of hit on it
earlier about voice tones, yeah, that kind of stuff.
So there's TV spots out thereright now.
Now you're not seeing me,you're just hearing my voice
because there's graphics over it, and that's not you talking?
But if you listen, you may beable to.
Since you know me so well,you'll be able to listen.
Hey, that's not.
It sounds kind of, but it's off.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
So it can't nail the inflection.
I have access to a program likethat that we do for the radio
show.
You can use anybody's.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Here's the cool thing about this type of program is
now, I don't have to spend, youknow, 20 minutes or an hour
writing up whatever the scriptis we're going to say.
I don't have to memorize it ordo whatever it is, I don't have
to act it out, because you'renot it.
Because now what they're able todo is and it's probably going

(19:09):
to be used all over China butyou have you sit in front of
your screen at the office andand you have your camera and
they want you to speak and domannerisms for a minute.
So I'm like hi, the sun isoutside, the sky is blue, john
Jay's here, how about you?
You know doing a whole bunch ofsilly things, and then it's got
it, their algorithm's got it,and then you wait about two

(19:34):
minutes and then they go.
Here you are Now you just haveto give it a script and I can
change my clothes so I can be inred.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
I got to see this.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Oh, that's pretty cool, but it's you, but it's me.
And I turned around and did I'mnot going to tell you the exact
words I used, but I did an oldIce Cube lyric and a Tupac lyric
.
I threw in there and it lyric,and it was, and a tupac lyric.
I threw in there, um, and itwas hilarious because it's
trying to use my voice, because,remember, it got my voice from

(20:02):
me speaking, um, and it'sabsolutely off key, which is
probably normal, how it would be.
But, yeah, it's got, uh, um,what did I say?
It's like bad boy killers andit's me saying it on the other
end.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's pretty crazy but there's also it's video of you.
It's video I gotta.
It's video of you.
I got to see that, I see theaudio thing is easy, yeah, the
video thing I can't.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
No, and that's what the greatest part about it is.
Now all I have to do is have ascript and then, because you're
talking like 15 second spots forTikTok or all these little
things you can do Now in an hour, because I'm not doing, all I'm
doing is typing in the scriptor uploading the script in the
script, because, again, it's notgoing to be the greatest

(20:40):
content.
You know it's.
It's not like you know you'rehow you're filming and stuff now
, but it's content enough forTikTok or Instagram that you're
just trying to get outwhatever's in that script,
talking about new laws or thingsare changing or something
that's, you know, in thepersonal injury realm that
people need to know about.
And it's pretty simple and Ididn't think of it.
I was at a conference in was itMay, april or May and this guy

(21:03):
was like man, it just takes somuch time to do all these things
.
Now I can do 100 a month,whereas I was doing like eight
to 10, because it just consumedso much of my time.
And we also have practices tohandle at the same time.
You're trying to handle thesepractices law firms and do this
marketing, and let me tell youit's that's another thing.
Glenn and I were on the olderend of the spectrum and so

(21:25):
trying to get into tick tock orticky tockies, I'm not even on
it, so I don't watch.
I know my kids are, I know Iknow my oldest, taylor 23,.
She's on it all the timetelling me what everybody else
is doing.
I'm just not.
I, I have so many other thingsI'd probably rather do with my
time, and I think the old man'sFacebook takes up a lot of my
time and Instagram.
So no man, I I don't.

(21:46):
But this saves plenty of timeand I'm telling you it's pretty
great.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
I've used AI.
I did something.
I wasn't even going to sharethis story.
I was, I was gonna.
I was thinking about tellingthe story on the radio, but I
can't.
Maybe I can get away with ithere and my wife Blake she's
here.
She doesn't know this story,but, like I don't know if you
guys, my wife and I share memesall the time back and forth,
right, sure, funny memes backand forth, and her back hurt a

(22:12):
couple days when she's reallyout and she's like mine, yeah,
yeah, like yours actually.
Yeah, bad, bad, um.
And so I was upstairs and Iwent to chat gpt and I said can
you make me a meme?
And it said, sure, make you me.
And I asked the chat gpt tomake a meme that giving oral sex
to your husband helps your back, okay.

(22:32):
So the chat gdp, chat gpt, saysthat's inappropriate, I can't
cross that line.
And then I'm like.
Then I'm like, wait a minute,this is medical and I'm trying
to do all these medical termsand I can't get it.
So it makes a meme.
It makes the memes, but it usesdifferent language.
It's not strong enough, so Inever sent it to her.
But I have the memes, butthey're like the.

(22:54):
Anyway, it never worked out,but unlike your back, it has
never worked out.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
No, the oral sex thing kevin, that is your own
damn fault it's not.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
Uh no, I'm actually feeling good speaking of your
back, let's segue into this,since we've spent four hours
talking about ai.
Um, still a lot more coming,though.
But what about, like?
One of the things that drbordenko and I, or dr carrie and
I, are into are stem cells.
Yes, right, I mean, I thinkwe're all going shortly.
We've been on trips before toMexico.
What's your take on stem cells?
How do you feel about stemcells, and I mean the kind that

(23:23):
you can't get in the UnitedStates?
And, carey, I still don't knowthe right answer when people ask
me why can't we get these here?
I still don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
They prove to have true harvested stem cells from
someone other than yourself.
You can harvest a stem cellthat you have in your bone
marrow and re-inject it intoyour body.
That's perfectly legal.
It's your tissue.
But it is illegal or banned inthe US, according to our
government to harvest stem cellsfrom another human and put them
into you in indications otherthan like leukemia, lymphomas,
what we call blood cancers andthose are very specific types of
cells that only come from bonemarrow.

(23:58):
So that gets really kind ofconfusing.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
I'm getting in the weeds.
It's input.
You can extract here andharvest it.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
You could?
Yes, you could do that, but youcannot put it back into someone
else who is not the genetic you.
Correct and that's why you haveto do it and that even some
people say, oh well, I kept theumbilical cord from my baby when
it was born and they froze itso I'll just use that.
You actually can't do thateither.
Just because it is youroffspring does not mean you have
legal rights to it, so it's.
You know, it's something that'sbeen around.

(24:27):
I mean, we've been doing stemcells now for 20 years.
It's not even new technology.
That's what's really scaryabout this.
But it is a banned usage ofthat biological product and
every you know doctor, everyhospital, they have to follow
what the government says.
You can't just go aroundwilly-nilly putting things in
that don't belong and it'sdifferent.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
I'm sorry, I'm just curious.
What do you?
What is your take?
There just needs to be morestudies on the uh effectiveness
or no?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
I think we have some really good studies actually out
there on the effectiveness.
I mean I believe that it justgets into turf wars in the
medical system and I mean that'sas blatant as you can get right
.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
It would impact too much Are we talking about big
pharma?

Speaker 2 (25:06):
We might be talking about the trillions or beyond
trillions of dollars that bigpharma makes, because I think
the impact points of where itcan really decrease the need for
future medical care as far asmore testing, more surgeries,
more pharmaceuticals on a dailybasis.
I mean.
I love giving the example ofulcerative colitis, a very big
ticket item for Big Pharma.

(25:27):
Those biologicals can beanywhere between five and
$50,000 a month for the life ofthe patient.
That is a cash cow.
There needs to be a better namefor it.
But if you can turn that off,if you can turn that spend off
by giving stem cells, whichthere's a lot of great data in
the UC and Crohn's area wow, andwe've seen people.

(25:48):
We've seen people, we knowfirsthand people I mean even
very respectable GI doctorsbehind closed doors or will
whisper to the patient.
I can't say this to you, but itdoes work, you know, because
they don't want to lose theirtenure, they don't want to lose
their position in their GIdepartment.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
But I feel that people will tell me I can get
stem cells here and I'll be like, yeah, it's your own.
No, no, it's not.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, no, okay.
So, first off, the word stemcell is like using the word
Kleenex for tissue, right?
I mean it's become synonymouswith a product that it is not.
People are getting cells thatare harvested from other areas,
either different areas of theumbilical cord or from the
placenta, and those are whatthey're getting.
That is a different origin cellthat does not have the same

(26:33):
impact.
It does not have the ability toI always like to say, kind of
grow up and be somethingdifferent when it's in you.
Those cells are already derivedcells that are just going to
work either in muscle tissue,because they're already muscle
cells, I mean, there's justthere's so much harvesting, like
I said, of bone marrow, eitherfrom the person, which you're

(26:54):
not talking about, or thatthey're deriving cells directly
from a post-production productthat is not the same as an
umbilical cord tissue, which iswhat we're talking about when we
go out of country.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Okay, and we go to Cancun, we go to ReHealth.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
I know you talked about this, probably before, but
I get people, and I'm sure youdo too.
Well, it's going to alter yourDNA.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yes, yeah, that's another great myth.
Somebody else's DNA you know?

Speaker 3 (27:19):
how do you know it's healthier, how do you know it's
not going to alter yours?

Speaker 1 (27:22):
So how do you feel now that you've done it a few,
you've done like three times.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, I go, this will be four.
Um, I can tell you, the onething that has made a huge
difference in my life cells isdefinitely and I notice it from
minute one um, I have two youngpetri dishes at home.
Um, one is nine and one justturned six, and they bring home
diseases weekly and um, I wasgetting sick at least once or

(27:46):
twice a month.
No doubt once or twice a month,and my wife was not.
I'm getting sick ever and Ijust figured I'm older, so it's
I'm more susceptible, all thisstuff.
Um, soon as we did the firststem cell study, um, I wasn't, I
wasn't getting sick, uh, andit's been what?
Three times now, every sixmonths, basically what about

(28:06):
like other things?

Speaker 1 (28:07):
like when I look at you, your, your face is like
what's, what's more vibrant.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, like you have a vibe about you that I think
wasn't there before.
Stem.
That is a beneficial sideeffect.
Right, it's a side effect.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
I say skin and hair.
You would never tell somebodyto go do it for that.
But everybody will walk up toyou and go what product are you?
Using your hair looks fuller,it looks healthier, your skin
looks better.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
I'm just saying the biggest thing for me is I
haven't been sick in over 20months.
I, I mean, I've had COVID.
I haven't had it.
My wife's had COVID Sleepingright next to me coughing in my
face.
Not sick, not sick.
Let me tell you, I've had COVIDfour times before you know,
even getting stem cells.
So my kids have had bronchitis,you know the common colds,
pneumonia my wife had, I meanall these different things that

(28:49):
have been around me and I havenot been sick.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
Knock on wood is there.
You know we've talked about ai.
We talk about stem cells.
Is there a reason that you feltcompelled to not dress up for
this podcast today?

Speaker 3 (29:00):
yeah I just thought you're gonna get the true
version of me.
Just thought I'd be here foryou, buddy wait, I want to.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
I'm gonna jump all over the place because I want to
go to your law firm real quick.
In all the years you've beendoing what's like the biggest
settlement lorna rose ever gotah, are you about that?
We have confidential.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
But here's the other stuff too.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
You don't have to tell me who it is?

Speaker 3 (29:16):
No, no, no, I know Single event, because here's a
couple different things.
So when we go out there and saywe have collected billions,
yeah, I do your commercials onthe radio.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
billions and billions for your clients, right?

Speaker 3 (29:27):
so when we say that because there's other firms that
do, things different, but we'vecollected over a billion
dollars for our clients just inthe last four years, and what
I'm not including in that, whichsome other law firms will
include, is our mass tortdepartment collection.
What are mass torts?
Yes, so the recalls or theroundup weed killer.

(29:47):
So we have a lot of those cases.
3m earplugs for the IraqiAfghanistan war vets.
These 3M earplugs weredefective and so they had
injuries.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
You're not including that in your billions.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
I'm not how come Because we don't need to.
We're focusing on just when wedo these commercials Individual
cases.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
We're talking about the car accidents, the slip and
falls, those individuals.
Oh, you're not talking aboutthese massive lawsuits for these
massive companies?

Speaker 2 (30:14):
No, but we have them In the numbers, right we?

Speaker 3 (30:15):
have.
We're just not including themin our numbers, like I think you
just probably just did.
A recent one that has now beenit used to say we've collected a
billion dollars for our clientsover the last five years.
Well, based on last year andwhat we're doing this year,
which is going to beat lastyear's numbers pants off is
we've collected over a billiondollars in four years now.

(30:35):
So it's, I mean, we're prettyproud of that and we're proud of
the.
You know the clients were ableto.
You know that we're able to dothis for them.
I mean, we have plenty of thesestories, but I have one story.
This lady comes in and want totalk to me, just say thank you,
and it was really sweet.
I meet her up front and shegoes I'm getting X amount of
money and, oh my God, you don'tunderstand.
Um, it's a life changer and Iwanted to know, I want to say

(30:57):
thank you and I wanted to knowcan you set me up with a
financial advisor?
And I'm like, ah, I mean I cangive you people that we know,
but that's kind of up to you andhow you want to do it, and that
was only one part of her case.
It's a lot of money, but it'snot in the millions by any means
, but it's the impact you canhave.
And I, I we have staff meetingsevery month.
I have one on Thursday thisweek and I continually tell our

(31:19):
staff the same thing, and overand over again.
In our business we have theability to have a positive
impact on people every singleday because they came to us,
trusted us with their case andto have an outcome that,
hopefully, is just for them andwe'll fight for them.
You know there's other lawfirms that don't necessarily
fight.
They're paper pushers.

(31:39):
They don't have a litigationdepartment.
We have 14, 15 attorneys that'sall they do is litigate cases,
meaning if it can't get resolved, then we'll move it into
litigation and go fight theclients.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, that goes back to AI right there, because AI is
not going to replace yourability to litigate.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Correct, litigation's not going anywhere.
And that goes back to when Iwas talking about that list that
Chrysler Dahmer said and one ofthe professions was legal
profession he said 97% are goingto be obsolete.
You have the specialists, sothe trademarks or the patent
cases, ip stuff like that,you're always going to need a
lawyer.
But then you have thelitigation, so litigation,

(32:15):
you're always going to befighting in a courtroom.
I mean, I know right now thatthere's what didn't Elon Musk
just release?
An AI bot like an actual.
I don't know if it's not a human, but a person like.
A physical presence, a physicalpresence.
There you go.
I mean George Justin's rightaround the corner.
I mean George Justin's rightaround the corner.
I mean I'm assuming our food'sgoing to be coming in little
packs and we're already doingthe bar as soon as it's going to
be a full meal.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Great More processed foods.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Yay, you don't have to say the name, but I'm just
curious to the number.
You got one person.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
The biggest number.
You got one person, yeah.
So we've got a couple over $10million we got.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
When you're easy, and do you still go into court and
fight or not?

Speaker 3 (32:52):
It's almost a full time.
Here's the thing I'm at the endof my leg of doing this.
I mean I'm 25 years I thinkroughly into this right now.
Well, I've been partners withGlenn or working with Glenn for
26 years, this August, this pastAugust Pretty crazy when you
think about that, because twoalphas and how are they working
together?
For that long I've actuallybeen separate offices.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
We do have separate offices.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
Now I think it's just growing and learning each other
over time.
Be honest with you.
He'll be the first one to tellyou there's certain things I do
and he does better than I know.
He does better than me.
I mean, then you have thosethings where you come together
and I really need your help.
I really want to hear your sideof this, and so on and so forth
.
So it's been a we sure we'vehad our ups and downs, but it's
been an awesome 26 years.
I mean, when I first came out Iwouldn't have thought of this

(33:33):
at all.
This is what I'd be doing.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Yeah, you can't go anywhere in this town without
seeing or hearing about Lernerand Rowe.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
Not even this town, I mean Nevada.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
California, yeah, all the ways.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
I mean again hopefully good stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
I mean look you can't make everybody happy but you
try and as many people happy aspossible, even what you give
back to the community.
That part blows me away.
I don't think anybody competeswith that and I think people try
to look at I almost feel otherlaw firms are trying to do stuff
because you do it and Iwouldn't disagree, right.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
But that's a good thing, right?
Because if you were there, Ithink one of our, maybe 10 years
ago, one of our uh, one of ourgolf events or annual golf
events I was speaking to a bunchof other lawyers that come to
our event and I was like, let'sstop taking, as lawyers we're
taking, we want business, wewant more, more, more, more.
Let's start giving back, and Idon't care if it's in your time,

(34:24):
because not everybody's got theopportunities that we have or
the resources that we have, butif it's in your time, um, um,
get, let's give back and helpmore.
So I can't get upset when I seesomebody, another law firm
saying, oh, you know doing theexact same things we're doing,
uh, that's great, it's helpingmore people in our community.
I'm proud of that.
If I had anything to do withthem wanting to do that and get

(34:46):
out there, I'm I, I'm so happyyou don't even know.
I think it's the mostimpressive thing that if I have
that ability I don't know if Ido, but if I have that ability
to have somebody else want togive their time, get their staff
involved, write a check to helpothers in the community.
I think it's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, also the same line.
When you look at theadvertising everywhere, I mean
to me I feel like you startedthat, like now, whenever I see
another bus board or a bus withanother law firm on it, I'm like
they're copying you.
It irritates the hell out of me.
I know I can't do it, I'm justtelling you One we didn't.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
We're not the originators on it, but yeah, we
came.
You know when we first startedout?
We started out in Las Vegas.
I don't know if a lot of peopleknow that in Las Vegas we
weren't.
The first was a niche.
One of the big guys back in theday I had somebody recently
just go, you know there's.
There's stuff that I don'tagree with in marketing and, and
my and like, in my view, isdon't buy other people's names.

(35:39):
Like keywords, google keywordsyou can buy people by the term
learner in row.
Wow, and that's for me, I thinkit's shady.
I mean, how could it not be so?
A lot of people don't know.
I mean, I'm assuming you guyshere, but a lot of people don't
know.
Especially when you're on yourphone and you type in learner in
row, the first three that popup are ads.
They say sponsored ad yeah, theydidn't always say sponsor, but

(36:00):
yeah, they say.
And most people I find it morepeople that are less tech
inclined or even are like my mom, you know, my mom and dad in
their age, they don't know.
They type in learnerowe, theyclick the first thing that pops
up.
Because the first thing thatpops up is not saying it's not
Lerner and Rowe, it's saying youknow, call us, we'll win big.
You know, or voted best, andcan you fight that or no?

(36:22):
So we have been because, again,we don't think it's fair and
there's different rules anddifferent laws in different
jurisdictions.
Some jurisdictions have saidit's against the law to do
Others, and ours being one,we're fighting right now, right
now as we speak, and so we'llsee how it turns out.
If you're allowed to do it,then so be it.
But a gentleman that I wasfriends with goes.

(36:43):
You know, it's not a big dealbecause everybody does it and
you did it when you firststarted out and that's where I
went.
No, there wasn't the internetwhen I first started out and
that's where I went.
Um, no, there wasn't theinternet when I first started
out.
Um, we had, we had phone booksand we would buy the double
trunk or the back of the phonebook and put little magnets on
the front so you put it on youryour refrigerator.

(37:04):
No, we didn't do this and it'snot something we do now, even if
we had the ability to.
Um, it's just.
I think it lacks integrity andI think it's, you know, shady.
If you're looking for learnerin row, then you should be able
to get learner row and not haveto fight and sift through to
where they're at.
You know, if you're looking forpersonal injury attorney in
phoenix, fair game.
All those words are open, fair,but the trademark terms learner

(37:25):
in row, or one call, that's all, or interact need to check I
would think that'd be somethingthat you would be able to win
quickly and all may begroundbreaking if no one else is
we're fighting it, so we'll seehow it turns out.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
But where is it in the case?
Like, are you in front of ajudge?
I know a judge.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
She was just here, yeah um, we are actually so
we're at the lower court leveland the lower court level
actually decided almost wantedto split the baby and and we
said don't, we don't want tosplit it, we need to know, you
know.
And and the other sidebasically even said they go.
Yeah, we've gotten cases thatpeople asked for you and give us
a list of those amount.

(37:58):
So the judge took, went thatside.
We said don't split it, went,took their side, we appealed it.
We just had hearings that tookplace I think it was a month and
a half ago, two months, maybethree months ago.
So we're waiting to see whatthe appellate court says.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Do you go to a lot of the court cases that Learn and
Row represent?
It really depends.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
If there's something you know good that we have
coming on.
I mean you got to figure 90, 95, 96% of the cases settle before
, regardless.
If they didn't settle onpre-litigation, I mean before
complaint, they'll settle onmediation, arbitration.
You know they'll settle,they'll resolve um.
The cases that don't the otherthree, four percent that don't

(38:36):
um, they may still resolve downthe line or right before a
jury's picked um called for direum.
A lot of times they settleright on the court steps.
Basically, uh, excuse me.
And then if it's a good caselike either I want to see the
attorney, I want to see howthings you've got to remember me
being in the courtroom can beprejudicial to our client.

(38:59):
Remember, we're the advertisingguys.
People see all over the place.
So you can have people thateither love or hate advertising
marketing and the jury sees thatI'm there and this whole thing.
It can be prejudicial.
But there are times I've gonein to watch and see what our
people do sit far in the backand just want to see how the
jury is, want to see how ourattorneys are doing, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Let me ask you this I've been watching all these
true crime documentaries andthis Lacey Peters.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
The worst date ever, the worst ex the worst ex ever,
that one.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
But there's some of these cases where they know I'm
going to get this lawyer.
He's the one that was on the ojtrial, he's the one that helped
this murder trial garrigos yeah, garrigos that guy right right,
right right.
You saw that scott petersonyeah, I saw the scott peterson
one, but are there?
Is there a case that you cantalk about that?
Oh, that case?
That's the learn on row case,do you mean?
Is there anything?

(39:48):
They got that big.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I mean, I don't know if we have anything that's
really.
I mean, I'm just trying tothink off the top of my head.
That's groundbreaking.
Either in law because that'stypically what you're fighting
about is going to be either alegal issue or a money issue,
monetary issue or both.
It can be both.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
But it's not like yo.
You saw that freaking bus thatran into the Walmart truck.
Yeah, that ran into the Walmarttruck.
Yeah, that was a learn-to-rollcase we got.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
You know what I mean.
We had a Walmart infringementcase that Walmart literally
grabbed.
It was a trademark infringement.
This guy is and I can't getinto what it was, but literally
and you see them Like if youwalk into Walmart.
They're still using them, butthey finally had.
I mean they were getting awaywith it for years.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Walmart was breaking the law.
You sued Walmart.
We went after Walmart.
That's a hard one.
Did you win?
Yes, we did.
Yeah, the guy made out reallywell.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Can you imagine the size of the lawyer team on the
Walmart site they had quite afew and it's just three of us
and stuff like that, but it's abig deal.
I mean, again, I can't get intoit, but I would bet you, if you
walked into Walmart and youlooked up at some of the
marketing they have there, atstuff they have around there,
one of those is probably theones that they had to pay to use

(40:56):
.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
So you won, but they also run the right to use what
they were doing before andcontinue to pay for it.
Oh wow, but crazy stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
So, Kevin, who's the legacy you keep referencing that
you and Glenn are kind of inthe latter years.
You've been practicing a reallylong time.
Who's going to be the nextlearner in a?

Speaker 3 (41:13):
row.
That's interesting.
So we are really spending, andyou kind of alluded to it
earlier.
Are you still going to court?
Are you still doing this andmanaging a firm?
But managing a firm, not onlyin all these different states
takes a lot of your time.
We do a lot of seminars acrossthe nation about picking up
other law firms.
So right now we're looking toacquire law firms.

(41:34):
So, and we're talking aboutexit strategies for others,
about acquiring law firms likewe'll take it over for you,
especially people that may nothave a strategy already planned
out or they want to go dosomething different, and so
we're going across the nation.
I fly to Utah tomorrow andwe're there all day talking with
a bunch of different law firms.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
So you buy the law firm, keep it the name don't
turn it.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
It's already a brand.
I'm not taking it.
I don't want to make it learn arow.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
I want to keep whatever it is meanwhile there
could be also be a learn androll law firm in that same city
there could be 100.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
I mean that world's better to do it in your home
state than your city.
It makes a lot easier to run.
I already right, you knowthat's the thing we.
We already have staff and youtalked about it earlier,
repurposing staff.
I mean, at the end of the day,if we continue to grow, I may
not have to.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
But do you have to update your legal license to own
those or no?

Speaker 3 (42:17):
No, so as long as you're licensed, a licensed
lawyer, you're fine, likeGlenn's, not licensed in Arizona
.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
But you are yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Oh, so I couldn't start a law firm and hire
lawyers, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
It's that way in the medical system as well.
Only a doctor can buy a doctor.
Okay, so this has changed,though just recently I think
it's maybe three years now Is it2021?
Um, the, the Supreme court inArizona came out with um
alternate business structures,that you can be a non-lawyer um
and own a law firm.
Now, uh, they've changed a lotof different things and I'm
paraphrasing a lot of stuff, butyou have to go through a

(42:54):
background check and everythingwith the supreme court.
So if you own more than 10,they have a full background.
You have to answer a bunch ofquestions and all this different
stuff.
But if you're approved to beownership of this structure,
this entity, this abs entity,then you can actually own law
firm.
So what, what did that do?
That opens up for privateequity, you know venture
capitalists to come in and sothe weird I mean, they came in

(43:18):
quick and they're here.
You're seeing law firms thatare marketing on TV.
You just don't know that.
They're not local, you know,but they're acting like they are
, but they're based out ofFlorida, their main offices are
in Florida or stuff like that.
They're here and that brought alot of money in marketing here
and it was all done in theinterest or access to justice,
which I always thought was kindof a little odd.
Because we're free, you don'tpay us unless we collect unless

(43:41):
we win.
So everyone has access so andthere's different things they're
obviously looking at.
You know criminal justice.
We're now paralegals.
If you pass the test and apply,you can actually represent
individuals in certain courtcapacities.
Um so, without being a lawyerwithout being a lawyer kind of
like um pas yeah in our industryright, there's all these people
.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
They're doing stuff that aren't doctors you can play
doctor but not have the degreenuts right, it's kind of waters
down the md, waters down the jd,I mean at the end of the day,
but, um, you're seeing a lot ofthat stuff happening here and
they're here.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
They all came here thinking because we're the only
state in the entire unitedstates that ripped off the
band-aid and said let's just dothis.
Utah has it like on a sandbox,a case by case approach, and
they've been doing it for awhile like that, but we're the
only state just said, yeah,anybody, we welcome you all,
come on in so that because thereare a lot there, are.
I mean there's, there's I mean Idon't know a lot, maybe 90,

(44:34):
that there's approved abs'sstructures, those, those
structures that are out there,um, and they got back in.
I know a couple that have, youknow, hundreds of millions of
dollars in marketing stuff.
But here's the thing.
The problem that they're havingand it's a problem from day one
is if an accident occurs inNevada and so the jurisdiction

(44:55):
is Nevada, you have a Nevadaattorney, that's fine, it's
handled in the case, but you'rebased here.
How are you splitting fees witha non-attorney that were
derived from an accident andmade from an accident in Nevada,
when they don't allow you splitfees with an attorney you may
hear in Arizona, but fees camefrom an accident in in nevada.
When they don't allow you splitfees with an attorney you may
hear in arizona, but fees camefrom an accident in nevada, that

(45:17):
jurisdiction, so you can'tbring it back here and split
those fees with a non-lawyer.
You can only do it in arizona.
So think about that.
And, like I said, some utah.
So they came rushing out hereto be able to do all this stuff.
And I, like you, know, bigthing is when you have that kind
of money, you want to donational, national marketing is
great because you get cheaperrates, you get more, you reach
more people.
When you're in a market likeours, or California or Nevada or

(45:40):
Texas that are really bigmarkets Atlanta, these big
markets that they have you'respending a lot of money.
The cost per case acquisitionto get a case now has gone up
50% in the last four yearsbecause of those things and
because now we're obviously inpolitical season, so they're
buying out a lot of differentstuff and all that stuff, but

(46:00):
it's it costs more to actuallyget a case now.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
You know what?
Let's shift gears a little bitto medical stuff and health
stuff because, because you knowI'm your patient right and and
and.
Years ago, when I signed upwith you, you told me to get the
aura ring right.
So I have one of the first aurarings Gen one yeah.
And Kevin has an aura ring.
And him and I.
I'm on that.
Your circles, your friends,yeah, I see his, so I look at

(46:23):
his sleep score.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I didn't invite you to my circle, Kevin.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
I'm sorry, last night I took my own.
Oh, I thought your sleep scoreto me looked like you died yeah.
You were at a 34.
It was, yeah, it was bad.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
last night you were the 90 king.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
No, I was, and I was, and lately with travel.
So I got home late last nightfrom New York and that kind of
got me.
I was kind of wired.
You know how you're reallytired on perfect couple and
let's finish that.
Did you finish it?
No, but you get into it andthen you're like, oh my God,
I've got to watch the nextepisode, and next year.

(46:56):
I know it's one.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Well, what's your sleep routine?
The stuff you take, what Carriewould think of the things you?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
do.
She's going to say you're crazy, the things that you do to go
to sleep.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
I think I've already called him stuff that he does
the blackout.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
The blackout's terrible.
I don't know where you got thatfrom.
Who would go on air talkingabout that?
Seven years ago I stoppedtaking it.
Um, because I but it's almostnow.
Mentally it's got.
If I don't have it now, I wentto magnesium I got that from her
the powder, the lemon powderthat's the same as blackout, but
healthier.
So I have to take both.
I did last night trying to getmyself to sleep just turn the tv
off.
Yeah, but you used to takefreaking a sleeping pill yeah,
and then right yeah, I try somany different things right now,

(47:42):
because the hardest part is notstaying asleep.
When I go to sleep, I'm good.
When I'm out, I'm out, like Idid the other night when we're
in new york.
The first night was horriblesleep.
Then I went to bed like 10o'clock and I woke up at 8, and
I was dead to the world.
The battery died, so I didn'tget a chance to see that I died.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Doesn't it kill you when you don't get credit for
what you do?

Speaker 3 (48:03):
I was like I got a 90 .
No way I'm going to competeagainst you.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
What's your highest score you ever got?

Speaker 3 (48:07):
97.
You, you got a 98.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
No, I got a 97.
I don't think I've ever got a98.
I thought you did hey listenanything over an 88 consistently
is a win okay, it really isAnything over 88, you'll get the
little crown.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
But anything over 88.
Consistency, because what itreally matters is consistency.
If you have 97, 34, 97, 52,that's wrecking your brain, it's
wrecking your physiologicalstatus.
I, that's wrecking your brain.
It's wrecking yourphysiological status.
I mean you just want to besolid and regular.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
I need to upgrade mine.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
We're not even going to talk about HRV, though we're
not allowed to bring up HRV.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Let's see what she says about this one.
What?
Because, then I just recentlybought a new thing.
My wife says what are you doingmining?
So I have this new thing thatyou put around your head like
this oh, is it the?

Speaker 2 (48:54):
cool band.
No, no, no, it's a, and itgives you electrical
stimulations to help you fallasleep.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
Oh, I, I actually don't know.
I'm not gonna say the name ofit, I'll tell you after.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
But there's one that came out a couple years ago.
It looks just like a littlemining thing and it actually
regulated your temperaturebecause they found out that one
of the reasons you couldn't fallasleep was if you're too warm,
specifically around head, itstopped you from going into deep
sleep.
So stage three, stage four, andyou put this cool it's called I
don't know if it's called acool band, but cool band on, and

(49:19):
then they found people gotdeeper sleep because of it, but
it was kind of annoying to wearand when you roll over, you hold
on, I need my phone.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Amazon, yeah, I need it here tonight.
My next purchase purchase Ithink that I'm going to do tip
for my sleep is the um, thesleep eight mattress.
Yeah, that's getting a lot ofgreat traction.
I mean I have uler, so yeah.
So I it came up in my feed andthen I left it and I didn't, I
didn't do anything with it.
Then I speaking to somebody innew york and they're like it's a

(49:44):
game changer for you, isn't it?
Ai wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Can we circle back around?
Isn't got it?
Doesn't have some background aibuilt into?
It because it learns yeah,because it learns everything
going on through all yourdevices and then it manipulates
what it does?

Speaker 3 (49:58):
it's just a cover right, it's not a full right,
it's just a cover.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I've been looking at this thing for about three years
now and I'm getting ready topull the trigger it's like 25 or
2900 bucks yeah and you put acover over your bed and there's
a machine next to it and itkeeps it cool and it wakes you
up by it getting warmer I've hadthat for three years, but it's
not that brand, it's the, thepeople who made the brand.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
I have left to go make the eight well, you said,
yours is called uler yeah oh, Inever heard and it does exactly
that it cools you down and thenit warms you up, so you don't
wake up to an alarm clock andnot obnoxious so I've been
studying my, doing my own testsand what I think works.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
And to me, what I think works help you get in the
nineties is you have to eatdinner way before you go to
sleep, a thousand percent waybefore you go.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
And I know what else you're going to say right now.
But so, um, and you're in NewYork, you know they don't go to
dinner until eight o'clock.
It's crazy.
And then you're talking about.
By the time you're done, it's10 and I'm already sitting there
going.
I don't want dessert, I don'twant anything, it's not gonna
work mentally right I'm alreadygetting anxiety right knowing
I'm not gonna sleep same andthat's what kills me.
And then I think you had aconversation with my daughter
via dms and you're I was toldnot to drink that the

(51:02):
electrolytes, oh I told her todrink electrolytes.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah before.
I've been doing that I alsotold her to stop drinking or
bcaas, or bcas before bed.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
What's?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
that.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Branched-end amino acids.
Oh yeah, wait do you drink theLMNT?

Speaker 1 (51:15):
I do Because of what I told her.
I specifically got it?

Speaker 3 (51:17):
What flavor?
Oh, I don't know, it's red limeand da-da-da.
Yeah, those are my favorite.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
I do it every day.
Well, I grab it when I'm at thefacility.
If you too we have well, yeah,and we also have um dcaas.
I drink hearse throughout theday, and then, when I go in the
sauna, I drink the element tea.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
See, the problem is when I fly I get super
dehydrated just I'm not drinking, yeah and so last night again,
we didn't get home until late.
I ate on the plane and thatfood's horrific, um, and then by
the time I drank the Elementtea yeah, by the time I had that
then I had to have my blackout,which was a whole other bottle

(51:58):
of water that I'm drinking withthat, along with Maggie's.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
And then you got up four times to urinate.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Twice.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Okay, that sucks too, doesn't that suck?

Speaker 1 (52:05):
I said to her I was like I keep peeing a lot.
She's like well, welcome toyour 50s.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
I'm the most empathetic doctor.
Again, I couldn't spread it out.
If you can do it where youstart doing your electrolytes at
7 o'clock, then for me it wouldbe 7 o'clock, I'm done eating
at 6.
Start your day withelectrolytes.
Yeah, that's the first thing Iwake up with.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
So did you know a fun fact about AI.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
What's that?

Speaker 2 (52:30):
If you ask it how many R's are in the word
strawberry, it will only tellyou two.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
So there you go again , strawberry.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Don't trust AI AI.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Always research before Fact check.
Fact check yep.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
I still can't go over that.
There's a P in raspberry.
That's just me.
That's your AI.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Okay, go ask that one .

Speaker 1 (52:55):
All right, that's just me, that's your ai.
Okay, go ask that one, barry,all right, that's a wrap, all
right.
Thank you, kevin.
Rowe.
Learner in rowe.
Learner in rowecom.
The phone number 877-900-0.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
Let's go with 977-1900 dude, I don't know why
I can't get that.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
877-1500 is nevada, is las vegas.
Well, thank you for your time.
Thank you, thank you.