Cameos, Confetti and a Cold Heart - Season 2: The Interstellar Song Contest

Hey, Who fans and welcome to Episode 425.

The stakes are high as the Doctor has to save a galaxy of fans both inside the arena and the viewing audience across the galaxy. This one was a mix of heavy (and at times hard to watch) themes and some comedic moments, so it's good to have some variety to chat through.

Plus, we’re treated to returning classic characters the Rani and a surprise (very very very very long overdue) appearance from Susan, which got the feels going for sure. With that being said, are the cameos enough to pull the episode up out of this season's up-and-down feel so far?

This is The Big Blue Box Podcast

Join us each week for a new episode every Friday from your hosts Garry and Adam. We talk news, reviews, commentaries and general chat on everything Doctor Who PLUS listen to our monthly Round Table episodes with the whole team. Check out our website where you can also listen to all of our episodes for free along with the amazing reviews and articles from our writing team.

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Thank you for listening to this episode and remember to follow the podcast on your fav podcast app so you don't miss an episode when they drop every Friday (or pop over here for links to all the popular podcast platforms).

Have a fantastic week and until next time remember... Aaaaaaaaaaallons-y!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, hey, hey. Who fans andwelcome to The Big Blue Box Podcast.

(00:22):
My name's Garry.
My name's Adam.
And welcome to episode 425.
Yeah.

(00:46):
Welcome back who fans toanother episode. I hope you're keeping
well and safe. We hope you'vehad a cracking week. And evil managed
to do something Doctor who.
Related.
He's in there again.
Feel like you let me win thatone. Don't know. You're trying to
get on my good side. What'sgoing on?
Well, I was trying to do alittle tune in in light of the episode

(01:07):
we're reviewing this week.Doing a little melody, but. No.
Yeah, I should have figuredthat you're.
Having none of it.
You should have gone fullWhitney on me, mate. You should have
put about 100 notes in oneword and I would have got it. Yeah.
Or for Mariah. Actually, it'sMariah, isn't it? That does the hundred

(01:27):
notes in one word.
Yep. Or Beyonce. Take your pick.
Yeah, take your pick.Depending on your age.
For me, if I tried that, mate,sound like we'd lose, like thousands
of subscribers overnight.Because it sound like a cat being
murdered in the corner of theroom. Oh, dear.

(01:50):
No, I said, same, same. If itwas me, sames this.
Yeah. Last week was aninteresting review. The old story
in the engine. You know what Idid? I went off and watched that
one more time, gave it anotherwatch and. Yeah, my score hasn't
changed, though, from before.From last week.
I thought you had to say youloved it. It's like, oh, and I loved

(02:12):
it on a third watch.
But no, it's still completely.Completely. I was going to say completely
bonkers, but it's not. It'sjust varying degrees of bonkers.
Yeah.
In amongst a great story. Yes.It wasn't too bad. And this week
it's an episode that I thinkis. I won't go into too much detail

(02:38):
because we're literally aboutto review it, but I will say that
it was an episode that is theleast I was. It's the one that I've
been least looking forward to.
I. I see.
Right, yes.
Are you pre warning us? Isthere a rant coming?
It was just because you and Ihave got very differing opinions
on our enjoyment of EurovisionSong Contest.

(02:59):
Yeah.
I was like, this is gonna behell on earth for me. It's gonna
be awful. And I think for youit's. It potentially would have been
the opposite. I don't know ifyou were looking forward to it because
it was themed aroundEurovision. Of the future?
Yeah, sort of. I was intriguedby it. I think more than looking
forward to. I was intrigued tosee how this played out.

(03:21):
Yeah, nice, Nice. Rightio.Actually, yeah, we'll. We'll do all
the subscribe stuff and allthat jazz later on in the episode.
We'll dive straight into thereview. So, bud, carrying on with
season two, what we're doingthis week.
Okay, so this week it's theInterstellar Song Contest.

(03:41):
Join your hosts, Rylan Clark,in a celebration of talent from across
the universe, live for anaudience of 3 trillion. What the
hell?
Just the reaction in the arenais sensational.
No clue.
But I like.

(04:01):
We are ready to fly again with.
The 803rd interstellar song.
Cont. I love a good sheriff at arms.
I will survive.
I will find you. You can stillhelp those people.

(04:24):
Can'T we?
Call for rescue.
Starts off all happy andbubbly, eh?
And then takes a nasty turn.
Things go south, mate.
I had to make sure I got thetitle right because I've been calling
it the Intergalactic Stellaand you know, I'm known for getting

(04:47):
names of things wrong. So Ihad to make sure I got this right.
Interstellar. I had to keepthinking of Stella. I thought if
I just keep thinking of thedrink Stella, I'll be good. I got
it right.
So, yeah, your potentialtipple of choice.
I actually can't stand Stella.You know, my attention to detail,
the listener. There you go.

(05:07):
Yeah. The Intergalactic SongContest, arguably a. A better title.
Well, I didn't want to saythat, but, you know, if you're saying
it, I won't disagree.
Yeah. All righty. TheInterstellar Song Contest was first
broadcast just a couple ofdays ago. 17th of May, Saturday,
just gone. It was written byJuno Dawson, directed by Ben A. Williams

(05:31):
and stars Shooty and Verada.And then, as we've seen throughout
most of season two thus far,about a dozen supporting cast members
and the synopsis is after twohellions hijack the control gallery
of the 803rd Interstellar SongContest and eject the audience into
space. The Doctor and Belindamust race to stop them from broadcasting

(05:54):
a Delta wave to 3 trillionviewers. High stakes stuffs a. Mate,
I'm so interested in yourthoughts on this one. Just because
of what I mentioned earlier, Idon't know if opposites are going
to play into account here.But, mate, what are your thoughts

(06:15):
on this one?
Well, mate, as you know, Ilove a bit of Eurovision. I do like
it. So I was quite. I do thinkthis was a really cool idea, actually.
Having a, you know, sort ofmusical Eurovision themed Doctor
who episode on before theEurovision, sort of leading into
it in a way. And obviouslyShooty was supposed to be on Eurovision,

(06:36):
but he pulled out the lastsecond and all that. So I do like
it when things are planned outlike that. You know what I mean?
I thought that was a reallycool idea. So, yeah, love a bit of
Eurovision, mate. But I'msorry to say I did not think much
of this episode. It did notdeliver for me. There were some good
bits. I mean, I was absolutelythrilled to see Susan back again.

(07:00):
I mean, how long have me andyou been waiting for Carol Anne Ford
to be in Doctor who again? Youknow, I think we've said it so many
times over the years ondifferent podcasts. There's been
so many opportunities for methe day of the doctor, the 50th would
have been, you know, if you'dhave had Carol Ann Ford and William
Russell in that. Imagine. Butit didn't happen. Here we are, all

(07:23):
these years later, she'sfinally back in a couple of very
short little flashbacks,whatever they were. So I'm hoping
that's not it, mate. I'mhoping we've not waited all these
years just for those littletiny cameos. I am hoping she's going
to be in the final and have abigger role to play. That said, I
am worried what Russell mightdo with the character because Russell

(07:48):
being Russell is. He won'tjust bring her back and, you know,
let her be. He'll probablyregenerate her and put her in a bioregeneration
and goodness knows what andshe'll turn out to be the baby that
someone picked up with the.Oh, I could just imagine his brain
going into overdrive. Sothrilled to see Susan back. Just,
yeah, hoping we see more ofher and hoping they don't do anything
too radical with the characterlike trying to explain her. We don't

(08:10):
need to know anymore, youknow, I mean, we don't need any of
that. The Rani reveal, mate,fantastic. But you can probably tell
I'm trying to start withpositives, mate. So, as I said, didn't
really think this was aparticularly good episode. So I am
trying not to be negativeagain this week. So the Rani reveal
was great. I, I kind of saw itcoming in terms of it being Mrs.

(08:32):
Flood being the Rani, but whatI didn't expect was for her to buy
regenerate into a new kick assRonnie, who I'm really looking forward
to seeing in the final. Theactress, I think, Archie.
Punjabi.
Punjabi She. I don't know her.A lot of people seem to know her.
I sort of feel like Irecognize her, but I don't know her,

(08:54):
particularly as an actress.But mate, she had screen presence
and she instantly made methink, yes, you seem like the Rani.
So I'm very excited to seewhere that goes. I did think it was
very strange that they putthis big reveal as a mid credit scene
after all this build up. I wassat there like, what the heck? So

(09:15):
some, some stuff I did like.Okay, some really good little moments,
some interesting ideas thisweek, but as an episode overall,
it's probably my leastfavorite of the series. Didn't hate
it, just didn't really clickwith it. And I was hoping I would,
being someone who likesEurovision. And I am just going to
quickly mention this, but Iknow we will dive into it. Like a

(09:39):
lot of people, I really didnot like the torture scene at the
end. And I think you couldprobably tell I was gonna say that
even though we don't discussour feelings on the episodes before
we record, I really didn'tlike it, mate. It left a really bad
taste in my mouth. I thoughtit was nasty, just pure nasty. And
people say, oh, yeah, theDoctor's done this before. He's.

(10:01):
Doctor's done that. Yes, hehas. He has gone dark before. But,
you know, the episodes havebuilt up to that. And also I just
didn't like the way that afterhe did that and I found it really
uncomfortable to watch. I'mnot gonna lie. They were obviously
going for a Raknos momentwhere Donna says, you know, you can
stop now. I absolutely getwhat they were going for, but it
just, it did not work for me.It just come across a sadistic. So

(10:25):
to have Belinda walk up to himat the end and hug him and say, oh,
you're wonderful after doingthat. Just, yeah, just did not. It
really, really killed theepisode stone dead for me, mate.
Thank goodness for the Ranireveal afterwards because that brought
me straight back up again.But, yeah, just needed to get off
my chest because I'm tellingyou, mate, really, really stuck with
me after episode. I. It reallyleft a, you know, a sour, sour taste

(10:48):
in my mouth. I was like, Ididn't really, did not like seeing
the Doctor like that, youknow. But anyway, yeah, I'm gonna
try not to be too down on thisepisode, but I am going to tell you,
it wasn't, wasn't the best forme. It was very, very mixed as, as
it has been this season, I think.
Yeah.
Over to you, bud. What do you reckon?
Ah, wow.
Sorry. A lot. A lot to. Ithrew a lot at you there.

(11:09):
That's cool, dude.
Yeah.
And, you know, I had a feelingin the back of my mind that you and
I would cross over on this oneand be on opposites. I just had a
feeling in my head that eventhough this was a. An episode based
around Eurovision, you weregoing to. It was. Something was going
to happen in it or acollection of things that were going
to turn you off. And I wasgoing to be the one that liked the
episode.

(11:30):
Yeah.
Even though I'm not a fan ofEurovision in real life. But, mate,
this one landed with me big time.
Did it? I like that. I mean,that's cool.
Yeah, I really enjoyed thisepisode. In fact, I think this is
my. I think this is my faveshooty episode, really.
Oh, God, I couldn't stand aminute, mate, this is so. I don't
think we've ever had anepisode that you've loved that I've

(11:52):
really disliked, have we?
No, I do. You know what, mate?I am at real odds with fandom on
this one. I am out on theperipheral limb. The limb, the lamb,
the precipice of being bootedout of Doctor who fandom. I think.
No, I think this is greatbecause it will be. At least there'll

(12:13):
be some positivity on thepodcast this week because, you know,
the last thing I want to do iscome on here and moan every week.
And we have, you know, we'vehad listeners give us feedback, quite
rightly saying, you know,you're being negative, blah, blah.
But we will always give ourhonest opinion, mate. So it's nice.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. So atleast the listeners will get to hear

(12:33):
somebody being positive about it.
That's true. Yeah. But youknow what, mate? I really, really
enjoyed. I think there wasjust so many elements that worked
for me. I really liked the.The. The overall setup of this. It
sounds a bit corny, you know,the whole Eurovision thing set in

(12:55):
space and, you know, and. Andall that stuff. You know, I get that
from that perspective. But Ithought the performances were really
good from everybody. Like thetwo. The. The gay couple, you know,
Gary and Mike. Oh, I thoughtthey were really good together. I
thought. I thought, like Isaid shooty. I thought he was really

(13:18):
good. I thought the twohellions, you know, kid and. And
what? Sir Chops. I thoughtthey were really good.
Yes, I will agree with that. Idid think, what's his name, this
guy? Because again, when hewas announced a Lot of people knew
he was. And I was like, neverheard of him.
Oh, Freddy Fox.
Very good.
Yeah, yeah, really goodbecause he goes on a bit of this.

(13:41):
One of them's undercover,isn't it? I think it's Win is the
other one. Her name's Win.
Yeah.
Played by Owen Anderson. Ithought those two are really good.
And I thought Mrs. Flood wasgood in this. I thought her. It was
really good to see a differentside of her because up to now we've
seen this sort of very cute,sort of older woman, but with a bit

(14:05):
of a sinister side to her.Whereas in this, because of the bi
generation, we've got thisnew, you know, new Ronnie, who's
a lot more, as you said, a bitbadass and a bit more firm. She plays
it a little bit sheepish inthe end. Yeah, you know, so it was
cool to see that side of her.And I also really liked Cora. I think

(14:29):
it's Cora, the woman fromHellion who was in the contest, but
she sort of cut her horns offso people wouldn't recognize. I thought
she was really good. And to behonest with you, mate, the only person
who I wasn't really drawn toit, didn't set the world on fire
for me was Belinda in this one.
Oh, yeah.
I thought she was a littlebit. Yeah, just a bit flat, if I'm

(14:53):
being honest. But do you knowwhat, mate? Other than that. And
you know what? I. I reallyliked the scene where the Doctor
lost it and started going offon one on. On kid.
Oh, no.
Yeah, mate, Honestly, I feel.I feel like. I feel like fandom's
gonna. Yeah, have a. Have aword with me on, on the Socials,

(15:16):
I think, for this one. But Ican't, I can't be dishonest and just
say to everybody, it's, youknow, whatever. Like you said, mate,
we're always honest and stuff.And of course, the Caroline Ford
back is amazing and she looksamazing and it's a long overdue,
so. And I think we will seeher back, mate. I don't think. I
honestly don't think she'sback just for a 10 second cameo.

(15:39):
I hope not, mate. And what'spromising is. And a lot of people
are pointing this out that onDoctor who Unleashed, which I don't
watch, she is wearing adifferent outfit and it's not just
like a casual. I don't thinkit's the sort of thing she wears,
you know, when she goes outshopping. It looks like a Doctor
outfit. So that lookspromising because we haven't seen
the outfit on screen, so thatwould suggest, you know, it's not

(16:02):
a definite. It might be maybeshe, you know, maybe she's got something
funky from cna. But, you know,it does look like she is going to
return and I really hope so,mate. I'm very intrigued to see that.
There's so many wild rumorsflying around at the minute. I mean,
we've got two episodes leftand I'm hearing like, Jody's coming
back as the 13th doctor. Youknow, the master's gonna be in it.
He's the third pantheon. Goelse. Jo Martin's coming back. You

(16:26):
know, she, because she did alittle cameo, Susan's gonna be in
it. I'm thinking, wow, if, ifeven half of the stuff that's floating
around is true, this final isgonna be jam packed. It's, you know,
it's gonna be everything inthe kitchen sink. So it does feel
like Russell's definitely putin some stuff in there. You know,
I just hope the payoff isgood. As I keep saying, that's the

(16:47):
thing that worries me. Butthere is some good stuff being set
up, let's put it that way. Itfeels like.
Yeah, yeah, Defo. Yeah. Andalso like Nina as well, the manager
of the broadcast.
Yes, I liked her. Yeah. I wasgonna say for me, mate, I, I liked
her and I, I liked FreddieFox's kid. I liked the lady at the

(17:08):
end that sang the song, hadchopped her horns. I thought she
was quite good. And that was anice moment. I can't agree with you
about the two guys. I didn'tthink they were very convincing as
a couple, to be honest. Ithought they were a bit.
Oh, do you know what?Actually, mate, having your gay dial
turned on.
Yeah.
I can't say that I was ahundred percent convinced. No, you

(17:29):
know, they were. But however,I did appreciate the, the little
bants between the two of themand the little. What's the way. The
way to describe it would,would be like, you know, with some
couples you have those momentswhere not everything's wine and roses,
you know, not everything is,you know, love, heart swinging around

(17:50):
your head and, and all that.You have those little moments where
you sort of nick at each otherand, and you have these little, these
little moments. So it's reallycool when, when, when Gary's obviously
a massive fan of. Of Song ofthe Song contest and everything and
Mike's just like whatever sortof thing.
Yeah.

(18:11):
And it. Do you know what? Itreminded me of one of our listeners
and he's a good friend of thepodcast Joe, who's who. Our writers,
Maria and Jordan, meet up withhim a lot of events. And so we were
with him a lot at the Capitolevent recently. Yeah, really nice
guy. And he was telling me acouple of stories about his partner

(18:33):
who's not quite into Doctorwho. He's, like, obviously a huge
fan, like, mega fan. And hewas saying that there were times
where he's watching the showand it's not like the best episode,
especially for casual viewersand stuff, and looks at his partner
and he just sort of rolls hiseyes. He's like, well, you know,
this is your show, this isyour thing. It reminded me of that

(18:55):
with these two, where Mike'slooking at Gary like, you know, this
is your thing. You know, I'mjust here with, you know, just towing
along sort of thing. So Ireally liked the little toing and
throwing and bance betweenthem that highlighted that, you know,
not every couple is like, youknow, happy and perfect. Perfect

(19:15):
all the time. Yeah, it'spretty cool.
That's. That's definitelysomething I can relate to, is that,
you know, I think about when Idrag my other half round, you know,
a Forbidden Planet or a Doctorwho convention or whatever, it's
always that look of, oh, God,you know, how much longer we're going
to be, or, I'm only here foryou. So talking to partners. Actually,
mate, this is another reason Iwas looking forward to this, because

(19:37):
me. Me and my other half, wedo like Eurovision. We always, you
know, every year we sit downtogether to watch it and.
Bottle of wine, I'm sure.
Bottle of wine. Yeah,absolutely. And we've been to sometimes
Friends when we've been in theuk, have had Eurovision parties that
we've gone to. So we get intoit and I was thinking, how cool we'll
have Doctor who in Eurovision,you know, I was really looking forward
to Saturday, actually. And soI said, like, let's get. Let's get

(20:00):
Doctor who on and then we canwatch Eurovision later. Pop to the
wine. And I'm not joking,mate. Ten minutes in, I thought,
he's quiet. And I looked to myright because he sat next to me and
heads back, mouths open, he'sfast asleep. I was like, oh, my God,
I didn't even notice it. Imean, I don't think. I don't think

(20:21):
it was necessarily the episodehimself. It may have been the wine,
but, yeah, he was gone within10 minutes, mate. And I'm not joking.
It was like, mouth open,completely gone. Oh, what? So I was,
yeah, a Little bitdisappointed. I had to kind of watch.
I gave him a nudge, but thenhe just went to bed. He's like, oh,
I'll grab a nap. Oh, God'ssake. So I ended up watching on my

(20:43):
own. Oh, yeah. So didn't grab him.
Tapped out. Yeah. This episodedidn't grab him.
No, no. I don't think hereally gave it a chance, though,
mate, because he was gonewithin like the first five, ten minutes.
So, yeah, make it to re. Watch it.
Yeah. In contrast to lastweek, though, I think bar a couple
of little scenes, this waspretty cool for casual viewers. Yeah,

(21:05):
didn't need. You didn't needto understand a huge amount because
there was even the scene thatyou referenced earlier that you.
You found quite uncomfortablewhen the. The Doctor's torturing
kid, even. That was. That waskind of explained, wasn't it? When

(21:27):
the Doctor tells Belinda laterthat he. And we'll get onto this
in a minute.
He got triggered, didn't he?He said he was triggered.
He was triggered, yeah. Solet's speak about that scene, actually.
Might as well get it out ofthe way. So.
Yeah, let's get it out of the way.
That's why I quite like thatscene so much, because we. We will.
We always. This is my opinion,by the way. We always expect the

(21:49):
Doctor to act a certain wayand we have preconceived sort of
expectations almost about whatthe Doctor shouldn't do, should do,
what he should say andshouldn't say. And it's almost like
as. As the viewer, we've kindof invented the set of invisible
rules, I think, to say, right,okay, in every episode of every Doctor

(22:12):
we've ever watched, they'renot allowed to do this and they're
not allowed to do that andblah, blah, blah. And I think in
this situation, in thisscenario, I could totally believe
what the Doctor was feeling atthat time, which I think is why I
was drawn to shooty a lot inthis episode, because you could see
the realization in his facewhen he. When he comes to the conclusion

(22:36):
that the delta wave devicethat they're about to initiate is
going to wipe out an entire,you know, the 3 trillion people,
I think it was. And when youcouple that with the fact that what's
happened in recent history onHelia, where all of those people

(22:57):
have been through it a lot,you know, they have a bit of history
with that planet where it'sbeen basically just ravaged for the
hell Poppy fields and, youknow, they've been burnt and the.
Basically just. Yeah, thePlanet's been ravaged. So the Doctor
feels like you said he's, he'sbeen triggered because it's all linking
back to essentially every,every single person on Gallifrey

(23:21):
being obliterated.
Yeah, yeah. Which thing is agood thing, mate. But isn't. So that's
why kid is doing what he'sdoing, isn't it? It's kind of a revenge
thing. But shouldn't theDoctor be saying, have a bit of sympathy
for not, not the cause, but,you know, two wrongs don't make a
right for him to just do whathe did? I don't know. I, I, I, I

(23:42):
found it uncomfortable. Ithink I could have, it could have
landed for me in the same waythat the other times the Doctor's
gone dark, like with theRaider and family of blood and all
that. If, if Belinda, who youquite rightly said was so bland in
this episode, in fact, she wasirritating when she was all about
me, me, me, how am I going toget. It would have absolutely needed

(24:04):
and it would have given her agreat scene if she had gone in and,
you know, said to the Doctor,flipping egg, mate, I've been traveling
you for the last few weeks andI did do, did not like what I just
saw, you know, that was notright. You know, this guy, yes, he
may have done this, but, youknow, and she needed to lay into
the Doctor, he needed to say,I hear you, but this is why I did

(24:24):
it, and, you know, some sortof reprimand, but to go up and say,
oh, you're wonderful. Youknow, I don't, I mean, if I saw you
electrocuting someone over andover again, mate, I, I would have
to say something eventually. Idon't think I could buy you a beer.
Depends what it was.
No, I don't think so. I don'tknow, you know. Well, I don't know.
Having said that, there are acouple of people I wouldn't mind
seeing you electrocute, nowyou mention it, actually. Yeah, okay.

(24:47):
I mean, I hear what you'resaying. I'm not trying to, I, absolutely,
yeah, yeah. Take your opinionon board, mate. And I, I think, I
think it is quite cool whenthe Doctor does show a different
side every now and again. ButI, Yeah, personally, I just, I didn't
like it, but I read you. But Ido see what you're saying.
Yeah. And I saw pretty muchthe majority of fandom all saying
similar things, which I'll.Which is why I was like, oh, God,

(25:10):
you know, but I'm sticking tomy guns on this I think it was absolutely.
Yeah, I think it was the shakeup and the sort of kick up the bum
that the Doctor, as thecharacter in this season needed and
as the season needed. Becauseotherwise if we didn't have this,
most of fandom would just becomplaining once again that the Doctors

(25:31):
just had a cry.
True, true. But also I thinkit would have, it would have landed
more as well if I think thisis the thing when the Doctor's dishing
out this sort of punishment,it can work, mate. And I have said
before, like, who in Dr.Stark? But that it has to feel justified
to me. You know, it has to be.I know Kid was gonna kill all those

(25:52):
people, but I don't know it.To me, it just needed a bit of a
rewrite to make that scenework in the way that I think it was
intended. That's, that's kindof how I'd put it.
Yeah, the other, the otherthing with that scene before we move
on is I don't really feel likethe Doctor was doing anything that
bad either. If you think aboutit, it's not like, you know, after

(26:14):
we've sent a few vaultsthrough this kid and gave him a couple
of slaps, you know, thereisn't like, you know, smoke coming
off of him, you know, and hisskin falling off and, you know, and
he's like close to death. TheDoctor's just good old fashioned,
giving him a few, a fewbackhanders to teach him a lesson.

(26:34):
So coming from, coming fromgrowing up in the 80s and having,
you know, hard parents likethat, I was kind of relating. I'm
like, yeah, you give him acouple more. So, yeah, although he
was electrocuted him and theDoctor was, you know, had a pretty,

(26:55):
pretty stern face on him,didn't look too good. I, I get what
you're saying it was, I cansee why people would find it uncomfortable.
But yeah, I don't feel like.Because at the end of it they just
picked him up and he walkedout and he's fine. You know, this,
it's not like he's, you know,skinned him alive or cut his arm
off or.
I was gonna say he didn't evenget one of those nice armbands that
comrade got, you know, exactlyit. Did he? So, yeah, he just gave

(27:18):
him a.
Few shots, a few, a few voltsand then that's it. He's up and walking
off like nothing's happened.So. Didn't mean to do anything that
bad, did he?
I, I disagree, mate. I, Ireally didn't like it. I'm not gonna
like you. I absolutely. Youstick to your guns and I'll do the
same. I didn't like it becauseI. When I finished watching it, I
actually was thinking in myhead, if I had a kid, I wouldn't

(27:40):
let them watch that. Notbecause it was horrible or. Well,
it was horrible, but notbecause it was, like, really grotesque.
Like you said, there was noflesh being burnt off, but. But because
I wouldn't want my kid to seethe Doctor acting like that, you
know, that's how it affectedme. I think that's why I'm more down
in it. You're just thinking. Ijust. I am all for the Doctor going
a bit down that route, but Ijust. Yeah, it didn't sit right with

(28:03):
me to that extent anyway. ButI hear what you're saying, and just
to sort of wrap this up a bit,because we don't want to dwell too
much on. There's plenty oftalk out there about it, but a lot
of people are saying this isleading into Shooty being the Valiard.
Now, if this is goingsomewhere and it isn't just the Doctor

(28:24):
having, you know, a mad fiveminutes, if it is actually part of
some arc, I may reevaluate thescene, mate. I may go back and say,
oh, yeah, that was when theDoctor said he had ice in his heart
and he really snapped andthat's led him into going into whatever.
So, you know, I'm kind ofhoping there is more to it than just
him getting a bit annoyed andthinking it'd take out on someone,

(28:46):
if you know what I mean.
Don't know about. I don't know.
I think people just keep.Every year, the Valley Odds mentioned.
I think it's. I doubt it. Ithink it'll just be a, you know,
part of that story, but we'llsee. It might go. It might lead somewhere.
True. Yeah. You never knowthese days.
Anything could happen at theminute. Yeah.

(29:07):
Talking of old characters,mate, just very quickly, with Mrs.
Flood being the Ronnie. Yeah,that was cool, wasn't it? Very cool,
but also, like, reallyobvious, as I remember ages ago when
we. What was her firstappearance? Was it the Christmas
special?
Yeah, the church in Ruby Road,when she was Ruby's neighbor.

(29:29):
That's it.
She said, don't you know whata TARDIS is? When I remember, yeah.
Didn't you and I, we threw itin there as an option and loads of
fandom was saying it could bethe Rani. But then we dismissed it,
didn't we, quite quicklysaying that that's Too obvious. Like,
you know, it's. Of course itcould be. It's either. It's either.
It's either the Master slashMissy back or it's the Rani. And

(29:53):
we were just like, nah, Ican't. That's too obvious. So what
were your thoughts on. On theRani being back?
It does seem obvious, but Ithink that's because every time we
get somebody like thischaracter that's a mystery, we instantly
assume it's the Rani becausethe Master's been kind of done to
death, really, you know, andobviously the Missy thing. So it

(30:14):
was obvious, but it didn't. Itstill didn't bother me, you know,
I was kind of, in a way, like,oh, at last, like, we've got the
Rani back. Because it is acharacter that I love, you know,
I'm famously on record assaying, I thoroughly enjoy time in
the Rani. I think Kate o'Mara's fantastic in it. I think the
Ran is a great character. So,yeah, it was obvious. What wasn't

(30:35):
obvious was I didn't see thebi regeneration coming. That threw
me completely. I'm like, whatis this? Just a thing now? What.
Why is it. What's the biregeneration about? I think that's
Russell just not being ableto. He doesn't want to get rid of
Anita Dobson, you know, andwho can blame him? I don't want him
to get rid of Anita Dobsoneither. I'm really happy that she's
going to be part of thissetup. So I guess, although I'm not

(30:58):
a fan of the biogeneration, ifit means keeping Anita DOBSON in
it, Mrs. Floyd Flood in it,then I can absolutely live with it,
because I. I think it could bea fun sort of double team, those
two. So you've got Mrs. Floodslash the Rani and the Rani, who
seem very differentcharacters, as we saw, didn't we?
She's sort of almostsubmissive to, you know, almost scared

(31:21):
of her new incarnation. Sothat could lead to some fun moments,
I think. Yeah. But, yeah, Iwas happy with it, mate. I was really
pleased that the Rani isfinally, after all these years back,
it makes such a change from,like, the Master. If it had been
like another Missile Master,that would have been so boring.
True. Yeah. And exactly thesame as you, mate. Wasn't overly

(31:43):
surprised that it turned outto be the Rani, even though we dismissed
it fairly early on. But, yeah,more another by generation. Who'd
have thought it, mate, youknow, this once in a millennia event
that they kind of made it outto be, you know, this very Rare thing.
Yeah.
Happens very close to theother by generation that we had recently.

(32:06):
So, yeah, it's all the. Therules of Doctor who are fast becoming
forever changing in a shortspace of time. You know, it's. You
know, back in the day when youand I first started the podcast and
we reviewed all of like,classic who and all the rest of it,

(32:26):
we'd never have said any ofthis stuff would ever happen.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? Likejust a Doctor having a standard regeneration
and a standard finale and. Andall this malarkey and now it's. It's
all over the place.
I guess you gotta change it upa bit. I mean, as I said, I'm not
a fan of bi regeneration, butyeah, you're right, you can't. You
know, the show's got to evolveand change. I absolutely accept that.

(32:49):
Do you know the actual moving.Gotta keep moving. Do you know the
actress, mate? Is this someonethat's been on your radar? I feel
like she's been in stuff and Ijust feel like I don't know who she
is, but a lot of people arelike, oh, yeah, she's fantastic.
She's gonna be great. So areyou aware of her in other stuff?
Have you seen her in anything?
I've seen her in a few things.She was. She was. What was she in?

(33:15):
Something that I watched awhile ago. What was it? This was
quite a while ago. Oh, Life onMars. She's in a couple of episodes.
Recognize her from that? Andshe's also. Yeah, she was. She's.
She's had kind of. She's donea couple of long standing things
back in the day, but she'smore known for sort of turning up

(33:35):
and being in like a fewepisodes of something.
Right.
And she's done a bit of filmwork as well. She was. Yeah, she's
been a few films. So I knewher face as soon as I saw her. I
recognized her face and Iremember seeing her from. From a
very. A few things on TV overthe years, but I don't think you.
I don't think you'd see herand think, oh, she starred in something.

(33:56):
You'd look at everything. Oh,I've seen her a few times in. In
something.
Yeah. I. I really liked Lifeon Mars, that Child. Yeah, I do.
I haven't watched that foryears, but it was a great series,
wasn't it? So she's in that.She. Okay. It's interesting.
Yeah, she's in it for a littlewhile. Yeah. But no, she was. She
was very, very Commanding.Straight out off, you know, straight

(34:17):
out the gate. She was. Had avery good presence about her and
really commanding. So, yeah,looking forward to seeing what. What
this Rani brings to the. Tothe table.
Yeah. And the BBC justreleased a publicity pic of her in,
you know, in her Rani outfit,because obviously when they buy,
regenerate, they have half ofeach other's clothes. So what is

(34:37):
going on? But the Rani outfitthey've given her, it's a real cool.
You know, it's very similar towhat Kate Amara wore, but they've
kind of modernized it and. Butnot too much. And I thought, yeah,
she. Yeah, I've seen her for,like, 10 seconds on screen, but she
really does have. What, Idon't know, maybe I should wait till
next week. But she. I feellike she has something about her

(34:58):
that I absolutely can buy intoit, that she's going to be a cool
Rani. So I shouldn't saythings like that because the next
week I'll probably be saying,oh, she was rubbish. But, no, I get
a good feeling about her,mate, that she's gonna be good. Yeah.
She just has that presence, anauthority, and that's absolutely
what the Rani is. So, yeah,looking forward to seeing more of
her.

(35:18):
Yeah. The legendary characterthat is the Rani.
Kaito Amara, man. Oh. Wish I'dmet her.
You know, I don't mind time inthe Rani. I really don't mind it.
People are coming around toit. I see people saying that all
the time and I'm like, toldya. It's terrible, but it's fun.
I don't. Yeah, I tweeted outlast week the. The soundtracks. Really?

(35:41):
I love the soundtrack to that.
It's so funny, actually. It'son my. I have it on my phone, I downloaded
it and sometimes I put, youknow, the songs on shuffle. I'll
be sort of out and about doingmy thing, shopping, whatever, and
it'll just randomly play atrack from Time to the Rani. And
it always cracks me up becauseit's all. It always seems to select
the B Sting track and I findmyself walking around Tom Thumb or

(36:08):
supermarket, you know. Oh,gosh, yeah. But it's a great soundtrack.
I love it. Yeah.
Yeah. Kef McCulloch.
Yes. Classic.
Classic. Right. Unless you'vegot any other thoughts on Mrs. Flood/
the Rani. Just want to speakabout the story just quickly then.

(36:31):
Not so much it being centeredaround sort of futuristic Eurovision,
but this concept of all thesepeople were getting jettisoned up
into space, but convenientlybeing wrapped in this big bubble
for A little while.
A mavity bubble, mate.
A mavity bubble, indeed.
Mavity shield. Sorry.
Yeah, that's pick. That stayedwith us, hasn't it? The old mavity

(36:54):
thing certainly has. And Ithought that was really cool, man.
I thought that was quite ashocking visual effect as well, when
you saw those thousands ofpeople just being sort of sucked
up out of the arena, up intospace, and. Because at that point
you didn't know that there wasthis mavity, well, around the thing,

(37:16):
you just thought they werebeing blasted off into space to be
killed. So you were witnessingthe massacre of like, 10,000 odd
people. Yeah, so I thoughtthat was quite a shot. It was great,
you know, reasonably realisticeffect. I thought it was very cool,
but. And then the Doctor, youknow, floating up, that was a really
cool effect. When you just seehis art is back arched over like

(37:37):
that, and he's just floatingin space. They use that as a publicity
shot, I think, for thisepisode. And. And he starts to freeze.
And that's where he gets the.The vision, doesn't he, of Susan
and use the confused. Theconfetti cannon. So camp. I think
they even say in the episode,don't they?
That's ridiculous.
Do you know what, though? Itwas really funny. This episode was

(37:58):
really funny, mate, in a lotof moments, which I think is why
I was drawn to it a lot,because it had some shocking moments
coupled with some quitecomedic moments. So when the Doctor
does use the confetti cannon,comes blasting in, gets saved by
Mike, first thing he does ishe stands up and he points and he
just passes out. Yeah, he justcollapses and stuff. And it was sort

(38:20):
of comedically timed reallywell, but. So what do you think to
the story, then? I know it'sobviously it's a sabotage story and
revenge story, but, yeah, thefact that all these lives are on
the line, both in thevicinity, but also watching at home
and this delta wave threat andeverything. Did you think it was
a good suspense for kind ofwill it happen, won't it happen sort

(38:42):
of thing?
I'll be honest, I didn'tbecause I thought. I mean, the actual
storylines, okay, there's abit of politics in there, which I
think gets a bit muddled, thewhole poppy honey thing. But, yeah,
I don't know. I didn't reallyfeel the stakes, mate. I mean, I
absolutely agree with you thatthe. Visually, when everyone was
killed, I did at first think,omg, like, that's dark. Like all

(39:05):
those people just floatingspace dead. That visually it was,
you know, horribly beautiful.If, you know What? I mean, it looked
great on screen, but it was ahorrible vision, you know, to see
all that. So, yes, in thatsense. But I kind of. As soon as
they mentioned Mavi Bubble,everyone saved, I just knew, you
know, you just know theDoctor's going to stop him. So I
didn't really feel muchthreat. Although, Kid, you know,

(39:27):
Freddie Fox was, I thought,gave a very intense performance.
I believed in him as this sortof, kind of deranged, you know, nut
job that's gonna put thissound wave out. So, yeah, it was
okay. The storyline, I mean,it's quite sort of simple in a way.
The one thing I didn't get wasBelinda just sort of got caught on

(39:48):
the roof. But I mean, like,you know, every. Everyone else got
sort of blown out. I don'tknow. Just like, I did actually turn
and speak to myself and say,seriously, because my partner had
obviously left at this point,I was like, seriously, just. What?
She just got caught on the topof the. Surely she'd have been sucked
out as well. So a silly littlething to get caught up on, I guess.
But the cannon, mate, theglitter cannon or whatever. Did you

(40:11):
not get flashbacks to PrincessLeia in whatever that terrible Star
wars film was she. And shefloats across, but did you not? Because
I instantly thought of. Ofthat. Of Princess. Is it the Last
Jedi? Yeah. Where she getsthrown out into space and suddenly
uses the Force to shoot acrossthe sky? I don't know, it just reminded
me of that and I thought itwas a little bit ridiculous, but

(40:35):
it's fun. Maybe I need tolighten up a bit, I think.
Yeah. Freezing in space andusing the Force versus a confetti
cannon.
It was just the visuals, I think.
You see, shooting float acrossvery different things. But, yeah,
yeah. There was somesimilarities, though.
I don't know, it just made methink of that and I thought, you

(40:58):
being a Star wars nut, Ithought maybe you would.
I think the parallel is moreto do with how they came back from
the brink of death from somekind of other force. In this case,
it's his vision of Susan. Now,does that mean he's hallucinating
because he's close to death? Idon't mean close to regeneration.

(41:19):
I mean close to death. Doesthat mean, you know, he's kind of.
Because they do say, don'tknow that people who are moments
away from death, in those sortof hours and potentially days leading
up to when they die, they dostart to hallucinate and see people
from. That they've knownthroughout their life and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.

(41:39):
So is. Was it that kind ofthing or is it actually Susan? You
know, it's. We're guessing itis, you know, we're guessing. Hoping
that she's going to be in thefinale, of course, but it was that.
That kind of unfroze him andthen enabled him to hold his breath
for a bit and grab the cannonand do that stuff. So I think the
parallel is more not thedevice or the thing used to save

(42:02):
themselves, but the fact thatthey were close to death and suddenly,
miraculously, it's almost asif the writer needed a way for them
to carry on the story with thecharacter and they have this. They
need to have this other, youknow, not a human experience, but
this almost superhero momentwhere they bring them back into the

(42:26):
story. So, yeah, that was morethe. But I know exactly what you
mean, though the parallels arethere in some respect.
I did gasp when I saw Susan. Imanaged to stay off social media
because Russell put out one ofhis videos, didn't he, the day before,
saying, make sure you don'tlook at the socials, because there's
lots of spoilers this week. SoI thought, right, okay, I'll be good

(42:47):
this week. So it was quitenice, actually. Both Susan and the
Rani were both, you know, theyweren't spoiled. For me this week.
I was good. I did keep offsocial. So that was. It was a great
moment, I have to say,because, you know, seeing the Doctor
starting to freeze over anddie and all the ice in his heart
stuff, which is quite a nicemetaphor, I think, in his heart,

(43:09):
I should say. And then Susanappearing, it did get me. I was like,
oh, my God, they've done it.You know, even though they've dropped
hints in shoot his firstseason, we thought she was coming
back, didn't we, in thefinale? But she didn't. To actually
see her on screen again, Idid. It was a really cool surprise.
I was like, oh, yes, at lastthey've done it.
Yeah, yeah, I was spoiled withthe Rani thing.

(43:32):
Oh, were you? Oh, that's a shame.
Yeah, I wasn't looking for.For spoilers or anything. I wasn't
even on my big blue boxaccount on Instagram. I was on my
own personal one, justscrolling through and I just happened
to see it was an official postby the BBC.
Oh, right.
Official BBC Instagram accountthat just said, like, literally.

(43:52):
They didn't even put it at thebottom of the description of the.
All I saw was the image ofArchie Panjabi and literally the
first few words introducingthe Rani was like, oh, no. But I
wasn't spoiled with Susano.That was a complete surprise and
a real sort of fist pump and,you know, just, you know, thumbs

(44:16):
up and punch in the air. Thatwas such a cool moment. In fact,
I rewound it as soon as I sawthat. I said out loud to myself,
bloody hell, it's Susan. AndI've rewound it and watched that
bit, you know, a few times.And so good to see her, mate.
Did you have a moment whereyou saw your other half after watching
Episode and you said, oh, myGod, Susan of the Rania back and

(44:38):
they gave you a look of what?Who? Because I did. And I suddenly
realized, oh, yeah, they'renot going to mean anything to you,
are they? But I was quiteexcited and wanted to sort of tell
someone.
Yeah, no, exactly that. Ididn't even say it.
No, that would have been like, what?
Yeah, straight over. Yeah. Sothat was really cool, mate, to see
Susan and like we said, a hopeshe's in the finale. I hope they

(45:01):
make more of her charactercoming back and more so to find out
where she's been, what she's.
Been up to, what's she beendoing, where's that fella she went
off and married? I can'tremember his name. Michael or something.
Something like that. Yeah. Sothat was really cool. And okay, so
we've spoken about themajority of the peeps. Just to finish

(45:23):
up with shooty, mate, justquickly, I know you were uncomfortable
with that scene, but inreference to the rest of the story,
did you. Was there anythingthat you thought was cool from him
or was it just a fairly mehagain from him for you?
I'm pausing a little bit, so Ifeel like that endings overshadowed
him. Maybe. Maybe I'm being abit blunt because I don't think he

(45:44):
was banned in the episode atall, but I didn't like him in it.
But I feel like I'm justfocusing on the ending, mate. If
I'm honest, I'm probably beinga bit unfair to him. He probably
was good in it.
That's. That's cool, mate.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it has.I think that's the problem because
I was thinking, yeah, I didn'tlike the Doctor in this episode,
but I think it is just theending. I didn't like it. I guess

(46:05):
the rest of it, like you saidabout the fun moment where he, you
know, faints after coming backfrom space and, you know, there was
some stuff where he's doingall the technical stuff and taking
charge and Stuff. So, yeah, Ithink maybe I'm being a little unfair
and shooting. Maybe he was,you know, pretty good in this episode.
I just need to get over the ending.
Yeah, yeah, maybe. But, youknow, if it. If that stuck with you,
then. Then that's a thingthen. I just had. Throughout this

(46:29):
entire episode, mate, I hadvibes of 2005, 2006, Doctor who.
That's how I was feeling.
That's cool.
When I was watching it,because there's a. You know, there
was a couple of episodes withEccleston where he's like shouting
orders at Rose and they'regoing through it and he's like dragging
cables around and he's fixingthings and, you know, it just felt

(46:51):
like that, you know, when he'srigging up the. The thing. And it
also felt like a bit likeFamily of Blood. Human nature. You
know, that episode where theDoctor's kind of fixing things in
the background and. And doingstuff and he's acting the fool a
little bit and he's sort offixing things. I. Not that Shooty

(47:14):
was doing that exactly, but Igot that vibe from him. You know,
when kid turns around andshoots, he just sat there with his
feet up and he's already wiredup the delta wave thing and. Yeah,
I don't know, I just. I feltlike Shooty had a really good. I
felt like last week's episode,the story in the Engine, was a little
bit of a springboard in termsof him finding his. His Doctor just

(47:38):
a little bit more like, up tothat point, I wouldn't have said
that. I would have said thathe's been fairly samey throughout
season one and then the firstfew episodes that we've seen in season
two. I would say that it'sbeen a bit. Rinse and repeat with
him.
Yeah, yeah.
But last week I did feel likehe found. Found something a little

(48:00):
bit, which is a bit of aspringboard. And in this one, I don't
know, like, it's almost likehis intensity levels had gone up
a little bit because he'salways had. He's one of these guys.
Clearly that has just gotbuckets of energy. You know, you
can tell that it's. It justradiates, you know, it's just completely

(48:20):
bonkers at times. But theintensity part of it, when he's tried
to do that before, I didn'treally buy into it. But the bits
where I'm not necessarilytalking about the scene we referenced
earlier, but just in generalwhen he's gone a bit sort of straighter
and he's talking moreseriously. I felt like there was
just a bit more. Yeah. A bitmore intensity there. So, yeah, I
thought this is the best onefor shooty for me in a while.

(48:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Isee what you're getting at because
I mean, when he was workingwith whatever the guy's name, you
know, one of the couple andhe's like, can you do this? Can you
do that? You know, I like itwhen the doctor's, you know, solving
the problem and, and stufflike that. So I kind of get where
you're coming from.
Yeah, yeah. We've referencedGary and Mike, you know, the, the

(49:04):
kind of saviors of the day. Ihonestly thought they were going
to get killed at the end bythe Ronnie. I thought, oh no. Oh
yeah, I thought, yeah, she'sgonna sort of, you know, mark her
appearance by. By murdering acouple of people. But thankfully,
you know, she just had a bitof the hump and. And walked off with
Mrs. Flood in tow.
But that was a fun scene,wasn't it, when they. When it's a

(49:26):
bit weird having it as a midcredit, wasn't it? But it was fun
when they unfroze Mrs. F.L.all doddery and. Oh, God, no. And
all this. I did think that wasfun. Did love that.
Oh God, yeah, that was prettycool. And so Gary and Mike, I know
you weren't too keen on thoseguys, but I felt like they provided
a bit of. Just a bit of. A bitof bant and a bit of humor that was

(49:48):
needed.
Yeah, one of them did the one.The guy who was doing all the computer
stuff. You're right, he didprovide a bit of humor to the episode,
I guess.
Yeah, yeah. There wasactually. There was one character
that I wasn't quite drawn toand it was the guy that was Cora's
assistant. I think thecharacter's name was Len. The black

(50:08):
guy who was in the red suitthat was in tow of. With Cora. When
he finds out that she'shelium, he switches on her.
Oh, him. Yeah, I couldn'tthink who you meant.
Yeah, really quick, likealmost like this, like real kind
of like, like his eyes justtold a story of like, I don't want

(50:31):
to be around you anymore. Nowwhat? Now I know exactly who you
are and where you're from. Youknow, I don't want anything to do
with you. And his face turnedfrom like being this sort of pretty
happy, optimist, optimisticguy to. Yeah, just being a real,
real beep. So I know hischaracter is meant to Be that way
you want to. To kind of. Iknow he has a bit of redemption at

(50:53):
the end, you know, when shesings the song, he tears up a bit
and he claps and you.
Think, okay, the old slow clap.
Yeah, the old slow clap, yeah.He's kind of seen, you know, the
fog's lifted a little bit now.He's had a moment to think and he's
heard the song and stuff, soit wasn't. He comes around a bit,
I guess, in the end. But,yeah, I know the character's written
to be disliked because of thatswitch, but, yeah, I just didn't.

(51:14):
Yeah, I wasn't taking withthat guy.
No, I'd actually forgotten allabout him. In all honesty, it took
me a minute to work out whoyou're talking about. Yeah, that.
Yeah, that scene as well,where she. Where she exposes. She's
cut off the. Whatever they arewas quite cool. Again, I didn't see
that coming. Kind of made memore invested in the characters,

(51:35):
if you know what I mean, upuntil that point to think, oh, they've
actually had to disguise thatthey are and all that sort of stuff.
So made a game a bit more meaton the bones. In terms of characterization,
mate. What did you think ofRyland? Because we haven't mentioned
him. What do you think?Sparkly teeth himself.
Old Ryland? Yeah, I thought hewas. He was good. Because you know
exactly what you're going toget with Rylan. You know, it's a

(51:58):
bit like. It was a. Verysimilar to Graham Norton in this
episode with those kind ofcharacters and those sorts of people.
You know exactly what you are.You are getting with, you know. You
know, you don't. You don'thire Ryland for him to be anything
other than Rylan, if thatmakes sense. So, yeah, he was. He

(52:19):
was really cool and justplayed. Played that part exactly
as you would expect him to,which was really good.
Yeah, I. I feel the same,mate. I. I just thought he absolutely
suited the episode, you know,he. He kind of. He knew what he would.
You know, he knew he got thebrief. He's just playing himself,
you know. Any. Any, any. Yeah,he did it well, you know, when he

(52:42):
made the joke about somethingabout a bit like my career going
down the pan and all this sortof stuff. And, you know, he didn't
take it too seriously. Just.Yeah, he just added a bit of lightness
the episode and I think itworked well. And same with Graham
Norton, mate. I loved thehologram scene because I. I like
Graham Norton. I think when heTurned. When he. When he sort of
turned serious, he's like. Andthen the poor old earth burnt to

(53:05):
death on May20. You know, Icould almost see Graham Loving doing
that, you know, I mean, so Ithought both of them were pretty
fun in this episode in theirown ways. That's interesting, isn't
it, about him, Graham Nortonsaying the Earth has been destroyed
on that day, you know, leadingback to. Although we already knew
that was quite a. Kind of acool way to bring it into the episode
of him revealing it as ahologram. How he would know that

(53:28):
if. Quite. How they wouldbring him back if. Because he would
have been destroyed as well. Iknow it's a hologram, but not quite
sure how that works, but thatwas. Yeah, I thought both of them
were pretty good in this for,you know, what they had to do in
the story.
Yeah, yeah, they were good.And that was a cool downturn as well,
because at that point it waskind of the cliched happy ending
to everything. Everybody savedthe chorus, sung her song and she's,

(53:54):
you know, sang it for herpeople. I think that was one of the
criticisms from. From Wynnearly on was that she left Helio
and she's done nothing tohelp. She just ignored her own people
and gone off and done stuff.So she, you know, sung that for.
She tells everybody whereshe's from and sings that song and
it's the happy ending. Andthen when Graham Norton, you know,

(54:16):
very anti climatically,basically says, you know, and then
the Earth burned.
Yeah, that's right. In histypical way.
Yeah, he says stuff like that.Yeah, yeah. And then they're back
to the TARDIS and. And it's,you know, hell's a break about to
break loose. Seemingly. So.Yeah, that was a cool sort of twist
at the. Oh, why do I say that?
Ah, because this, get, this iswhat they want is stuck in your head.

(54:37):
Fallen foul of. Of RTD's.Yeah, whimsical.
You'll be saying mavity inevery sentence next.
Yeah, but it was a cool endingand actually talking of running,
just very quickly, there's abehind the scenes photo of him. They
gave him a quick tour of theTARDIS set when they filmed it and
you can just see him like alittle kid. Just like a little kid

(54:58):
like it, like in awe at thesize of the set and. And how great
it is. So, yeah, like, likethose peeps in it.
Has the Doctor finally this.This device that he's been carrying
around to get Belinda back,which I finally worked out what it
reminds me of it reminds me ofmy old washing line that I used to
fold up and put out in thegarden. As he is. He is. That thing

(55:19):
finally clicked and done itsthing now.
The Vindicator. I believe so,yeah, I believe so. Because the Doctor's
quite confident that now thatthing has done all of its readings
and everything and calibratedwith the Tardis, it's ready to guide
them home to May 24, which.

(55:43):
Actually, because we got thepost credit scene, which is kind
of overshadowed, really, whatwas a quite a OMG ending to the episode,
which was the TARDIS doorsexploding. Well, the TARDIS exploding,
I guess.
Oh, yeah.
I was like, yeah, that's whatI mean. Everyone's kind of forgotten
about it. I'd forgotten aboutit until my friend text me yesterday
and said, oh, what about theTARDIS exploding at the end? I was

(56:04):
like, oh, yeah, I'd forgottenabout that because of the whole Rani
thing, you know, that kind ofcame straight after it. But yeah,
what's happened to tardis,mate, is it reminded me of the Mind
Robber where the doors blewoff and it exploded.
Yeah, it's. It's not lookinggood for. For the tardis, is it?
Although it has been throwingup some warning signs, hasn't it?

(56:26):
Of late, it's been flashingthis very deep red color and alerting
people that something's not.Not quite right. And then. Yeah,
so I think the. TheVindicator. Mrs. Flood seems to know
quite a lot about it becauseshe's asked about it, hasn't she?
And then when the Doctor does,because she's up in the. In the audience
somewhere with some binocularsand she sees the Doctor use it, doesn't

(56:48):
she? And at that point she'slike, right, gotcha. Like now it's
now we're ready to rock androll. So she obviously knows what's.
What's going on, but it feels like.
She'S one step ahead of theDoctor every time, doesn't it? Which
I quite like, you know, Feelslike she's got a plan going on. Yeah.
Mm. Yeah, it's cool. Right?We've spoken about most of the cast,

(57:11):
I think already, mate. Spokeabout some story stuff, as usual,
mate. Ever got anything onyour notes?
Just a couple of things. Wewere told this was the most expensive
episode adopt who ever made.Did it feel like that to you? Because
I noticed some of the setswere reused. That was. That was the.
What was the last Christmasspecial we had the hotel one.

(57:35):
That was.
That set redressed, I'm prettysure. Nothing wrong with it. I just
sort of, you know, spotted itstraight away. But, yeah, it looked
good as an episode, but itdidn't look anything out of the order.
I wasn't sat thinking, oh, myGod, this is spectacular. Like, you
can tell that they've reallypumped the money into this, but I
just wondered if you felt likeit. It came across as the most expensive

(57:56):
Doctor episode ever made. Notsaying it didn't look good, by the
way, I'm just saying didn't.
Yeah, some of it did, but Iwouldn't say all of it did. No, no,
some of it does. There werethe scenes. I think they spent a
lot on the visual effects sideof things for the. The. The arena
of, you know, where they were.Was it Harmony Arena? Space Station?

(58:20):
Yeah. So, yeah, all of thatstuff, I think, did look really good.
And a lot of that stuff, like,you know, your typical sci fi spacey
stuff, that all looked reallygood and quite. I can imagine that
would have cost a lot.Apparently what they did was they
filmed 100 extras and scannedthem all in and then made digital

(58:41):
copies of all of those people.Oh, yeah, and just duplicated the
hell out of it in postproduction and made like, yeah, you
know, hundreds of thousands of people.
Sounds about right.
Yeah. But, yeah, I thought itlooked great, as always, as you said.
I think Doctor who just looksgreat these days. But, yeah, you
can sell. A bit of money wasthrown at this one in terms of visual

(59:02):
effects, but I didn't noticethe set, though. It's a good shout.
I didn't notice the set was a.Was a redo.
Someone might correct me,mate. I. I thought it looked like
a redress of. Of the TimeHotel or whatever it's called, but
I could be wrong. It justlooked like it to me. The only other
thing I got my notes, mate, isthe music, but it's not Murray Gold.
I'm talking about this week.It's Buck's Fizz. I actually thought

(59:23):
that was a really lovely ideato use, making your mind up, you
know, to use that song whenthey're coming out of the. It's what?
Yeah, it was when they werecoming out of the freeze.
They're rescuing everyone.
Yeah. I just thought that's socool because it's a Eurovision thing.
It's a fun pop track and itabsolutely suited that scene of everyone's,
you know, everybody lives sortof thing. So I just thought it was

(59:44):
a really nice call back toEurovision to hear that really cheesy
80s song that kind of neededthat. I needed that to put a smile
Back on my face after thetorture scene, to be honest, I was
like, yeah, this is cool.
Yeah. No, it was cool, wasn'tit? Yeah, agreed. And Mo's music,
there was a bit where theybrought back this kind of. And this
gave me vibes of Matt Smithhere. You know, in Matt Smith's Here,

(01:00:06):
where every time there was abit of action kicking off or they're
running away from. Fromsomething. The. The I Am the Doctor
used to kick in, didn't it?Which is what I used to love about
Murray's music back in theday. These recurring. Yeah, they
kind of did this with Shooter.They brought his theme back where

(01:00:26):
he's out in space. He uses theconfetti cannon. You know, when he's
building up to that bit. Theyplayed. He. Like his classic kind
of action scene.
Yeah.
Theme, which was really cool.So I enjoyed that. And, yeah, the
rest of it wasn't too bad. Ididn't suffer as much with this one.
With Murray's music ofdrowning out a lot of the scenes
of vocals. It. A couple ofplaces here and there, but I didn't

(01:00:49):
feel like it was as bad as thelast few episodes for me. I don't
know about you, mate.
No, same, same. Yeah. I can'treally think of any memorable stuff
this week, but it kind of.Yeah, it didn't drown out the dialogue,
which I'm pleased about. So. Yeah.
Yes. Alrighty. I've gotnothing else, dude, if you haven't
got anything else.
No, no.
All good to the scoreboard. Ithink it's me to go first, isn't

(01:01:12):
it?
Go for it. 10 out of 10. Is it.
I'm gonna give this mate an 8.5.
My word.
Which is my highest score yetfor a while, if I'm. I think, mate.
Yes, it is. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. An 8.5 for me.Right. It's. I feel like this is

(01:01:33):
weird. I feel like me givingthat score is weird at the moment,
but I just really liked it.Landed with me, this one. It hit
all the beats. Well, most ofthem. So, yeah, I enjoyed it. What
about you?
Well, I. I didn't love it andI didn't hate it. So I'm gonna have
to go. I'm gonna have to siton the fence and I'm gonna have to
give it a five. I'm gonna haveto go right down the middle. Yeah,
I didn't. Yeah, it just wasokay. I don't know. Didn't love it.

(01:01:57):
Didn't hate it. Yeah, yeah.
On the. Down the middle.Definitely gotcha okay, so. Wow,
dude. Who would have thought,eh? The. The episode centered around
Eurovision. I'd be up there.So with somebody who can't stand
the bloody thing in real lifeand you're. You're a five.
We must be in a paralleluniverse, mate. I'm convinced now.

(01:02:18):
It must be.
Yeah, yeah.
Crikey. Alrighty. Well, onthat bombshell, it seems. Let's end
it there, mate, for episode 425.
Alrighty.

(01:02:54):
Thank you. Thank you very muchfor coming back and listening to
another episode of The BigBlue Box Podcast. That was 425. And
our review of theIntergalactic Song contest from Interstellar
and that was a remarkable 8.5from me and a Middle of the road

(01:03:14):
on the Fence five from him.We'll be back next week, of course,
with our review of the nextepisode. Is it a two part finale
or is it just a one part? Andthis is a two part, I think, wish
world. Next week we'll be backto review that. So stick around and
tune in for our thoughts onthat one. You can do that, of course,

(01:03:35):
by making sure you arefollowing or subscribing to us in
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(01:03:58):
if you've got a minute toleave us a rating and a review, that
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(01:04:20):
to check out my co hostchannel on YouTube. It's of course,
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The Geeks Handbag, yeah. Justuploaded a new video where I go shopping
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Indeedy. And on that note, myname's Garry My name's Adam, and
remember.