Gods, Tears and Goodbye 4th Wall - Season 2: Lux

Hey, Who fans and welcome to Episode 421.

The Doctor and Belinda land in Miami, 1952, and face some seriously spooky cinema vibes. We’re here to spill the tea on what we thought: the creative, solid design throughout the production, to those cheeky fourth wall breaks.

Fandom was generally impressed with this one, so let's see if our views are aligned or if we're out on the ledge, as is sometimes the case.

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Join us each week for a new episode every Friday from your hosts Garry and Adam. We talk news, reviews, commentaries and general chat on everything Doctor Who PLUS listen to our monthly Round Table episodes with the whole team. Check out our website where you can also listen to all of our episodes for free along with the amazing reviews and articles from our writing team.

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Have a fantastic week and until next time remember... Aaaaaaaaaaallons-y!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, hey, hey who fans andwelcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast.

(00:22):
My name's Garry.
My name's Adam.
And welcome to episode 421.
Tada.

(00:47):
Welcome back to anotherepisode, everybody. Hope you're keeping
well and safe. We hope you'vehad a cracking week and that you've
all managed to do something. Doctor.
Doctor Who related.
He's in there again. Crikey.Need to up my game again, I think.
No messing. No messing around.

(01:08):
Ridiculous.
Don't make me laugh.
Don't make me laugh. We arehere to review the latest episode
of season two is of course Luxfrom season two. We'll get onto that
in a second. It's been a bitof a. Been a bit of a weird time
for this season of Doctor Who,bud. Mm, yeah, really weird because

(01:33):
rewind to last week. Theopening drops for season two. Everybody
craps on the story clocks inat just over 2 million views. Fast
forward to this week. Fandomseemingly loves this story. Drops
down to 1 point. 1.5 somethingmillion views. This is video overnights.

(01:56):
Mm.
So I know these don't meananything these days, but it's really
funny how fandom works withthis stuff. How, yeah, how just the
viewing figure seems to dropoff but yet everyone rates how. How
great the episode is. You'llfind out of course, dear listener,
if we think if this episodewas any good or not. But mate, it's
weird in it.
Hey, yeah, could be a Marmiteone this week. I don't know what

(02:19):
you're gonna have made of thisstory with the viewing figures though.
I think this is the, this isthe story I think a lot of people
have been looking forward tobecause we've seen lots of clips
of the character Lux, what'shis other name, Mr. Ring a Ding.
And I think a lot of peoplehave been anticipating this. So I
feel like because of theiplayer drop thing in the uk, I feel

(02:40):
like a lot of people will havewanted to watch it before transmission.
So I'm assuming there'll bequite a big add on to the overnight
figures when they add on theiplayer figures as well. But yeah,
1.58 or whatever it was. Eek.Not great. But yeah, well, let's,
you know, let's not panic yet,let's not jump ship yet. Let's wait
and see what it all comes to.Because I think a lot of people will

(03:03):
have watched this on theiplayer because, yeah, there was
a buzz around this episode, Ithink more, more than the actual
season opener, I think. Butyes, I Mean, can't wait to hear what
you thought of this onebecause it's. It's definitely something
a bit different, isn't it,this week?
Yeah, very different and verymuch needed, I think.

(03:23):
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Yeah.
Spice a bit of something newcreative thrown in there. Can't have
the bloody Doctor crying allthe time, can we? No, I mean, what
would happen if they did that?
Yeah, Eve. Oh, man. Even inthe Next Line trailer, the very last
shot was of him crying and I'mlike, come on, you're just trolling

(03:44):
us now. This is getting ridiculous.
Oh, that's funny, isn't it? Ithink, I think Russell and the other
peeps over at Bad Wolf and theB Bar, I think that they're in that
frame of mind with this seasonwhere they're starting to troll us
a little bit with a few bitsand pieces which we'll get on to.

(04:05):
It's quite evident in thisepisode. Yeah, but talking of viewing
figures, dude, the robotrevolution, the seven day viewing
figures, which is where theyadd in The. The terrestrial BBC stuff
and the streaming figures andwhatnot over seven days was 3.571
mil.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it'snot what we'd want, but it's not.

(04:30):
I don't think it's disastrous,but it's not. Oh, it's not great.
I mean, I can't wrap it up incotton balls. Yeah, it's kind of
a bit, I mean, but it gives usan indication, I think, of what will
be added on to. So we're goingto be around the 3 million, I think,
by the time they've added onthe iplayer ones this, this time

(04:51):
next week, I'm assuming.
Yeah, we should be. Yeah, andit's, it's all kind of, you know,
whatever these days,especially the overnight viewing
figures. But when you look atthings like some of the more popular
shows that Doctor Who goes upagainst, they're not too far in front.
I think Doctor Who last weekwas like the third most watched show
on BBC or the fourth orsomething. Yeah, no, second. The

(05:14):
second most watched show. Andthen this week it was the third or
the fourth or something likethat. And this is out of like, I
don't know, 20 programs orsomething. So not terrible by any
means.
No, I think that's what I'mconsoling myself with. You know,
on the one hand, it looks likea really low figure and because of
the history of Doctor Who whenit got canceled in the 80s, you know,

(05:35):
we all get a bit edgy aboutit. I mean, I'm absolutely in no
doubt that we're in for abreak. Absolutely. No, I don't think
Dr. Who's going to come backafter this series. This. You know,
we're not going to see anymore this year. We're not going to
get a special. But. So I'm notin denial, but. But I do console
myself with the fact that,yeah, it's still up there in. In
one as one of the most watchedprograms of the week or whatever.

(05:58):
So it's, you know, it'sbalancing the scales and finding
a middle ground between thosetwo, I think.
Yeah, defo.
Yeah, that's the way I'mlooking at it. That's the way I'm
getting through. Through lifeas a Whovian. I do hate that word,
by the way. I've never gotused to the name Whovian, but, you
know, for one of a better phrase.

(06:18):
Yeah, we've never used that,have we? So far. Oh, you're Garry.
He's a Whovian. In he.
The Trek is like Trekkie.
Do you know what? I honestlydon't know. The only thing that comes
to mind with that is from the.The. The film fanboys, the Star wars
film fanboys. That was outyears ago, which is a bit. I don't

(06:41):
know if anyone's ever seen it.It's a hilarious film. It's Dan Fogler,
I think, and. And JayBaruchell and some other people.
Basically, a bunch of Starwars fans travel across the country
to break into Lucasfilm towatch an early draft of Episode one.
So it's set around that sortof. Yeah, that time period of fandom.

(07:04):
And there's a scene where theygo to a town in the US which is supposedly
the birthplace of CaptainKirk, the future birthplace. And
there's a bunch of Star Trekfans there and they all have a bit
of a. It starts out with somebant and then it gets into a bit
of a fist fight. And. And oneof the Star Trek fans, he says, you
know, strong words for aTrekkie. And he replies with, we

(07:26):
are called Trekkers. Trekkers.At this point, Trekkie is derogatory,
apparently. So I only know itfrom that humorous scene from that
film.
But the film called. I've notheard of it.
Fanboys. It's really cool.
Yeah. So what do we call Starwars fans, mate? What are you.
I don't know.

(07:47):
I can't make it work.
No, you can't. I don't thinkthere is a name for that. I think
it's just Star wars fans.Yeah, nice and simple.
Draw droids now. I can't. Ijust can't think of one for you.
Struggling here. Lightsaberpeople. No.
No. Anyway, but yeah, if anyStar Trek fans listening, I actually.

(08:09):
I could fight Mark Donaldson,who used to write for the. For the
blog. He's a massive. I cansay Trekkie then. We don't know what
it is, but he's a massive StarTrek fan. Mark, what do you want
to be called, mate? What'sthe. What's the thing?
Let us know.
We'll endeavor to use it.
Email us at. Big blue box,blah, blah, blah.

(08:30):
Yeah, PO Box. Put it in theback of an envelope. Right. Whovians
and Trekkers alike, mate.What's a review for this week?
Yeah, so here we are, Seasontwo, or whatever it's called, Episode
two. And it's called Luxury.Get ready. Cause here I come.

(08:53):
We're an actual 1952. We're in Miami.
The movies keep playing to anempty house.
You actually want toinvestigate that spooky old cinema.
Hello.
Ta da.
Scooby Doo. Honey, I'm Vel.I'm beaming at you. This is impossible.

(09:20):
Cool trailer, though.
Yeah, I like that.
Yep. I opted for our old go toon YouTube. Very similar, very similar.
Tas UK. I can't remember thefull name. I can never say the name
of the channel, but thank youvery much for another awesome trailer.
So, Lux was broadcast theother day, the 19th of April. Runtime

(09:43):
just over 40 minutes. Waswritten by RTD version 2, directed
by Amanda Brochi and starsobviously shooty Gatwise. The 15th
Dr. Farada Seth, who was thenew companion? Belinda Alan Cumming
as Mr. Ring a Ding. Probablythe biggest name on the sheet there,

(10:04):
and a bunch of othersupporting cast members. Synopsis
is the Doctor's quest to getBelinda home takes the TARDIS to
Miami in 1952, where anabandoned cinema is hiding a terrifying
secret. Can the Doctor uncoverLux's power? Mate, you and I have

(10:25):
seen this just the once. This one.
Oh, you've only watched itonce as well.
Yeah, yeah. So we're bothrelying on each other to prod us
in the right direction withnames and things and whatnot, which
we'll get on to, but out thegate as usual. What are your thoughts,
dude?
Yeah, it can't just say itpains me. I've only had a chance

(10:46):
to watch this once because asregular listeners will know, I always
like to give an Episode twowatches just to really let the dust
settle and see how I feelabout it. I just haven't had a chance
this week. I didn't even getto watch it on Saturday. I didn't
watch this till Sunday night.
So, fan alert.
I know what is going on, butI'll tell you what, mate, it was

(11:09):
two things, right? So eversince the trailer dropped, this is
kind of the one that I've beenlooking forward to because I loved,
you know, the clips that we'dseen. There's been a bit of a buzz
around it and. And so, yeah, Iwas looking forward to this one.
And also because I didn't getto watch it till Sunday night, I
was sort of trying, you know,I wanted to avoid spoilers, so I
was kind of keeping off socialmedia. But you know what, it's like,

(11:31):
you open your phone. I didn'tsee any spoilers, but what I did
see was a lot of positivitytowards this episode, which was really
made such a nice change toactually open X, Twitter, whatever
you want to call it thesedays, and actually see people saying,
this episode was good. So Iwent into this with a very. I didn't

(11:52):
want to get my expectationstoo high, but I went into it with
a very positive hopes. Ithought, yes, you know, people are
saying this is really good.And that makes a change for Doctor
Who fandom at the minute. So.So I was looking forward to it all
round and I did enjoy it. Iwatched it with my partner once again,
which was nice. It's. I thinknow that I'm back in the States and,

(12:14):
you know, we're back together,it's nice to be watching Doctor Who
together because hedefinitely, like your partner, has
drifted off from watchingDoctor Who over the years. So it's
nice that we're actuallysetting. Sitting down and watching
this together. And we bothenjoyed it. What I just want to say
in my sort of openingthoughts, really, is that I loved

(12:35):
the beginning. I thought ithad a great sense of atmosphere.
I loved the concept. I lovedRussell for actually doing something
different. I'm not going tosay new, because I think perhaps,
you know, there arecomparisons out there of, you know,
that you could compare thisepisode to. But I like the fact Russell
tried something different. Ididn't mind the meta stuff in the

(12:57):
middle. I know a lot of peoplefelt that's where the episode fell
apart, but what did let itdown for me, mate. And I'm sorry,
because it was. Honestly, itwas going so well. I thought, yes,
this is a kind of Doctor Whoepisode we haven't had for some time.
I'm really invested in thisI'm really enjoying this. Even the
meta stuff with the Doctor Whofans and the Doctor coming out the

(13:18):
TV screen. But where, where itcame off the rails for me, mate,
was the ending. It just didn'tland for me. I felt so underwhelmed
by the quick wrap up and theway that Lux just floated into the
sky and it just. Nothinghappened. I thought, oh my gosh,
Russell, you created thisgreat character, Mr. Ding A Ling
Lux. He. I was expecting himto be really scary and terrifying

(13:42):
and really put the Doctorthrough the wringer and, you know,
I just wanted so much, toquote the temp, Doctor, so much more.
It had such great potential tobe a really proper, scary, full on
Doctor episode. And it startedlike that and then Mr. Ding and then
kind of disappeared throughthe middle part and didn't do anything.
And then at the end when hestarted getting all big and evil,

(14:03):
I thought, here we go. Andhe'd got the Doctor against the wall
was like, yes, this is what Iwanted, but it's taken too long to
get there. And then he justfloated up into the sky and I really
felt let down by the ending,mate. Just kind of made what could
have been, I think a reallygood episode. Just a good episode.
It was so close to beingbrilliant, I think. But for me personally,

(14:27):
it just fizzled out and I justfelt Mr. Dingaling was completely
wasted. He. He's just so cool.I love him. I think he's such a good
baddie. I find it frustrating,you know, that once again we get
a great villain and they don'treally do anything with him. So I
enjoyed it, don't get mewrong. But it just didn't quite hit

(14:49):
the potential I think thisepisode had. But overall, mate, I
thought it was very good andit's great to see something different
in Doctor Who. I love the factthat they've tried something new
with it. Over to you, what doyou reckon?
Okay, dude. Yes, for the mostpart, I quite like this. I was appreciative
of the creativity with it. Ithink we were very much in need of

(15:15):
just a completely off, youknow, crazy episode of Doctor Who.
That wasn't. That wasn't toodeep, that wasn't too emotional.
We just needed a good sort ofisolated romp of a story, you know,
and for the most part, I thinkthey, they did deliver with that.

(15:35):
So, yeah, for the most part Iliked it. However, I will say that
it's one of those times whereagain, I feel like I'm in the Twilight
Zone and I'm taking Funnypills. Because pretty much every.
Every person on social mediaand even some of our own writing
team and people in our Discordserver have said how wonderful it

(15:59):
is and how much they enjoyedit. It didn't quite land for me that
much. You know, I didn't comeaway from it thinking, crikey, you
know, we're back in business.You know, this is what Doctor Who
should be like. I think therewas a few things that, like, you
just didn't quite land for meand didn't bring it home as much
as I was hoping for. But I didappreciate the, the, the, the whole

(16:24):
vibe of the story. I think onething that is cool, and I hope they
continue this as we go throughthe second season for shooty, is
that last week with the RobotRevolution, that had a very distinct
style, you know, thatfuturistic but retro 50s vibe. So
you can tell that the, the,the visual designers and the production

(16:46):
designers having a ball, justnailing all that stuff. And then
this week's very much thesame. It's going back to, you know,
back to that 50s style again,you know, but just in a different
location, obviously, back onEarth in Miami and, and that's evident
in the costumes they'rewearing and, you know, all that stuff.

(17:08):
So, yeah, I'm really likinghow they've. How they've sort of
worked this up to be very,very visually a visual storytelling
thing, as well as just, youknow, the Doctor and the companion
doing their thing. It's a bitlike, you know, the, that episode,
I think, is it the Idiot'sLantern, where the Doctor and Rose

(17:30):
come out of the TARDIS andthey're in like, 50s?
Oh, yeah.
And that sort of thing, thatwas really fun, you know, that was
a really cool sort of littlediversion away from sort of the norm.
So, yeah, I did like it. Acouple of things, just off the bat
do that I wasn't too fond of.The first one is I think the character
of Lux was a bit wasted.

(17:52):
Yes.
In, in two ways for me. Thefirst one was that he wasn't anywhere
near creepy and scary enoughfor me.
Absolutely agree. Yeah.
Yeah. I thought this was goingto be one of those episodes where
the kids would be legging outof the room like, mom, I'm scared.
This character is reallyscary. You know, I could imagine

(18:14):
kids of like, 6, 7 watchingthis without breaking a sweat, you
know, So I think they teasedit really well in the trailer. I
think he had the potential tobe a. To be a really creepy, scary
dude. But, you know, the mostyou saw was like his eyebrows turn
in and he looked a bit angryat a couple of points and. And that

(18:35):
was it. The voice was morescary than the visual thing. So Alan
Cumming did a great job ofthat. And then the second thing.
Yeah, the second thing is, asyou said, was the ending was a little
bit. Yeah, a little bit. Youknow, Russell's done this loads of
times where you're shifting upthe gears as you go through the episode
and you think you're onto abanger of an ending, and then it

(18:57):
all just sort of ends in a.Oh, that was. That was quick. And
that was nice. I guess it'sthe word, you know, for. It's really
weird because last week youhad the Doctor jumping up and down
and celebrating whensomebody's been killed and. Yeah,
yeah. And then you fastforward to this one and the. The

(19:19):
baddie of the storiesessentially become one with the universe
and is a Consumed so muchlight that they've become light,
I think, is the gist of it.And they've become one with the universe
and now they are justeverywhere and everything and. And
all that stuff. And theDoctor's like, oh, okay. So, yeah,

(19:40):
that was good to do that.Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It
just felt like there was a lotof sort of hands on hips at the end
and like.
Okay, I found it. Yeah. Ifound the endings very underwhelming,
mate. Like you said, it wasjust kind of like, okay, that's that
done then. So off we go.
Exactly. Yeah. Right, that'sthat thing all lovely wrapped up

(20:01):
in a nice little bow. Whatshould we do next? We don't know.
Should we go in the tardis,Have a sit down? Yeah, come on in.
So I think the. The betterpart of the ending was Mrs. Flood
coming back. You know, she'spopping up again and. Yeah. So, obviously,
towards the end of thisseason, or at the end of the season
with probably going to havethe reveal.

(20:22):
Right.
For who Mrs. Flood is.
Yeah.
And the jury's out on whatcharacter she is. But I'm more interested
in that little story arcrather than the second half of this
story, if I'm honest.
Mate, do you think we're goingto see her every week? Because I
must admit, I'm enjoying theselittle cameos of her popping up,
you know, last week and thisweek. I'm just wondering if she's

(20:44):
going to appear every week. Ithink someone pointed out that there
was a. One of the cartooncharacters looked like her, had the
same outfit as well, you know,when Mr. Dingaling you know, went
in. I don't know, there was ascene. What's he called? What's he
called?
Mr. Ring.
Mr. Ring a ding. Yeah.Actually, that could be. Yeah. Yeah.

(21:10):
That's a different program.
Yeah. Sorry, I'm gettingconfused with a late night channel.
But somebody did point outthat Mrs. Flood looked like one of
the cartoon characters aswell. So I wonder if she was in that.
But, yeah, I am intrigued byMrs. Flood. I think I've seen a few
people saying they're. They'rebored by that already and they don't

(21:31):
care who she is. But I'm. I'mstill quite invested in it because
I really love Anita Dobson. Ijust think she's a fun character.
So I'm looking forward to that reveal.
Yeah.
Get it.
Yeah. And more. It'sdefinitely a theme for Russell, isn't
it, at the moment, this breakin the fourth wall thing.
Yep.
So Mrs. Flood does that at theend, of course. And.

(21:52):
Well, the day she mentionedwas interesting, wasn't it, when
she said the show comes to anend on May 24th. What was that?
Right.
Is that what she said?
Yeah, I think that's what Isaid earlier. I think that's just
Russell and the other guysjust trolling fandom a little bit.
Yeah, I kind of like that.Kind of, you know, brought it brought
you into the story and I don'tknow, I kind of like what he did
there myself.

(22:14):
Yeah, well, I think that's. Icould be wrong. Let me just.
Oh, I looked earlier and Ithought it was. Is that the. When
the final is. But it's not, isit? It's the following week.
Yeah. So May 24th is episodeseven, and we've got another episode
after that, so.
Yeah, I like the fact itsounds like they've plotted stuff
out. I think this is one ofthe things we said during shoot his

(22:36):
first season that with Russellin. In the RTD1 era, he was very
good at sort of plottingthings and putting things in, and
they didn't always pay off.But, you know, it felt like he had
structure. It didn't feel likethat for shoot his first season.
It almost felt like they wouldjust throw in stuff and seeing what's
stuck to the wall. Whereasthis one, I am starting to feel like

(22:57):
there's more structure to it.So I do hope whatever this turns
out to be with Mrs. Flood andher giving this date and the, you
know, that's when the showends, I do hope it has a really good
payoff or at least a satisfiedone. I'm not gonna get my hopes up
too much, but I does feel morestructured to me, so far, series
two, we're only. We're onlytwo episodes in, so I'm hoping it

(23:20):
doesn't come off the rails.
Same. Yeah. Two episodes in,we're not doing too bad. And before
we get on to the other bigbreak in whatever wall you want to
call that bit, what did youthink to this whole setting of the
50s? Because the. It was cool.It was cool in a way, but it was.

(23:45):
It felt like a bit of a. Like,what's the way to put it? Like, it
felt like it was on a filmset, but not in a way that was meant
to make you think. Like itwasn't on a film set. How do I. How
do I make that sound better?Sorry. You know, like, with some

(24:05):
episodes in the past where,you know, like, Matt Smith's era,
where the story is set in NewYork and you can clearly see that
they are in Central park inNew York, you know. Yeah. You immediately
get that feeling of, okay,this is not a sound stage. It's not
a set. They're actually in NewYork. Or even just good old Wales,

(24:27):
mate. Just good old knockingaround Wales. A million different
locations. You can tell thatthey are somewhere with this. It
felt like. Like the WarnerBrothers backlot from. From back
in the day sort of thing,which was okay, but I. I got. Because
of that, I got the vibethroughout the story that the. It

(24:48):
just felt a bit. Yeah, I don'tknow. It felt a bit. Not fake, but
not pretend. Do you know whatI'm trying to say?
I think I do, mate. Yeah.
Yeah. A level of legitimacy toit than, like, you know, back in
the day, in Matt Smith's era,when they had nowhere near as much
money as they do now, theymanaged to still get out and about

(25:12):
and do the thing and, youknow, and it felt legit because they
were out there doing thething. Whereas now it's like, last
week was green screened todeath and. And now this week, it's
just. It's just a backlotsomewhere, you know, And I don't
know, I. I feel like we'relosing a little bit of the. Because

(25:33):
Doctor Who's always been knownfor, back in the classic years being
very much, let's go to aquarry or let's go to a cave, or
let's go to this wet, windy orsometimes sunny part, you know, the
country. You know, let's dothat stuff. And then fast forward
to modern Doctor Who. Youknow, it's known for, you know, going

(25:55):
to US locations, going aroundWales and doing all the things. I
now feel like it's become oneof those programs where it's like
you're watching. I'll tell youwhat, we mentioned Star Trek earlier.
You know, when you watch anepisode of like Star Trek the Next
Generation.
Yeah.
You know that 99% of all of itis just a set. You know, very, very

(26:16):
rarely do they actually goanywhere. Yeah, I feel like it's
like that at the moment.
I mean, I guess what you'resaying is it didn't. Maybe it didn't
sell Miami to you. I think ifthey'd have actually gone to Miami,
we'd have had shooty, youknow, driving down the road with
blue skies and palm trees and.And playing, you know, probably Carly
Minogue or something. Butyeah, I get what you mean. It did
feel a bit contained in thatsense in terms of location. I also,

(26:41):
when they were in the diner, Ihad flashbacks to good. The good
old days of Eddie's Diner inWales. You remember when they used
to film in there? Becausethat's appeared in. Wow, Matt Smith's
era, Capalda's era. But ofcourse it wasn't Eddie's Diner because
that sadly closed. But it didremind me of that and I thought,
yeah, if that was still open,I'm pretty sure they would have filmed
in there. But yeah, I don'tknow, mate. I guess because it was

(27:04):
all contained in that cinemafilm, the most part of the story,
I didn't mind it so much. ButI get the point you're making. Maybe
all the money went on theanimation because I think it looked
great as an episode. I mean,Mr. Let me get his name right. I'm
just going to call him Luxbecause it's so much easier. But
Mr. Ring a Ding lookedfantastic, I thought, in terms of,

(27:26):
you know, mixing the animationstyle with the film. So maybe it
all went on that they couldn'tafford to go to Miami.
Yeah, well, they were. Theywere doing a lot of stuff on the
post production for it. So allof the, all of the references to

(27:47):
Lux's movement and everything,it was all filmed on set with a crew
and everything. And then itwas drawn into the scene by animators
from Frame Store, the company.Frame Store.
Okay.
But they were working on thatstuff right up until the end of September
last year. Even thougheverything had been filmed and done
months and months before that, they.

(28:07):
Were still a great job. Yeah,I think it looked good, didn't it?
It did, yeah. It was verycool. We had that very authentic
feel that you've seen, youknow, like the really old Disney
animated cartoons likeSteamboat Willie or Steamboat Mickey,
whatever it's called.
Yeah.
From back in the day, thoseold stylized, you know, Fantasia.

(28:29):
Yeah. There is a saying forthese type of. These type of animated
characters. Is it host pipecharacters or something like that?
Yeah, and it was. And they dida great job with that. Like I said,
I just wish they made him morethreatening and more scary looking.
That's my biggest bugbear withit, mate. I 100% agree with you about

(28:52):
that. That's the thing I'mmost frustrated about. I've been
so looking Forward to meetingMr. Ring a dink that I. I have to
keep looking at Wiki to makesure I say his name right. That I
really. Yeah, I wanted to seehim be like a really scary. Like
you said, get the kids backbehind the sofa. Because I think

(29:12):
kids would have. I would thinkif they were watching this would
have enjoyed it. I think kidslike to be scared and they could
have pushed it much furtherwith the scare factor than they did.
You know, it felt like he wasreally tame in comparison to what
I was expecting. And I thinkwhat he could have been, they really
could have. Yeah. It just madehim. We're going to remember him

(29:34):
because of the look, you know,he was such a rounded character in
terms of that, you know, thevisuals, but in what he actually
did. And apart from a few nicelittle moments like don't make me
laugh, you know, I'm notsaying he's forgettable, but he could
have been so much morememorable. Do you know what I'm saying?
He could have been. One of thethings Russell's era has been sadly

(29:55):
lacking since he come back ismemorable villains and baddies and
monsters and things like that.He could have been one of them. But
I, I feel like I don't thinkhe's going to be forgotten, but I
don't think he's going to beremembered as much as he could have
been, if you know what I mean.It could have been a new classic,
I feel, but it just didn't hitthe mark.
Yeah, I mean, there was some,there was some good world building

(30:16):
stuff behind the scenes. Sohis, the way that he was introduced
into the episode was quitecool. With the moon coming through.
Yeah, that was. And you know,being sort of imbued actually into
the film stock and then comingto life through that way. That was
really cool. And although the,the character of Mr. Ringer Ding

(30:38):
was this kind of embodimentof, of Lux that you see coming out
of the screen and stuff. The,the stuff behind that, his, the,
the real side of it, thiswhole pantion of, of Discord thing,
that was really cool becausethat links some older episodes of
who together, doesn't it? Sothe obvious one is the toy maker

(31:02):
stuff. Yeah, it was, wasanother one of the, of these gods,
you know, the gods of chaos. Ithink there's another name for them
which links back to classicwho and obviously the specials. And
Maestro. Yeah, is another one.And the Trickster from the Sarah
Jane adventures. That wasreally cool. Sutek, of course from

(31:24):
the classic years and, and thenewer stuff. So I like that whole
expanding on that stuff alittle bit and the Doctor coming
to the realization that that'swhat Lux was and, and, and, and you
know, getting some more stufffor that. Um, there was a, it was
a bit, it was a little bit onthe nose and a bit obvious how we

(31:48):
got to that. So when thecinema starts to shake and the letters
on the front of the cinemafall off and it leaves the word Harbin,
you know, that was a littlebit like, oh, okay, yeah, we don't
need to be spoon fed thisanymore. You know, we kind of know,
you know what, what the dealis. You don't have to do that stuff.
But I did like the worldbuilding behind the scenes with Lux.

(32:11):
Yeah, no, I'd agree with that.I absolutely agree with that, mate.
And the lettering falling offthe cinema as well. It was kind of
like, yeah, we get it. We sawthat coming a mile off. But yeah,
it's nice to, nice to havethis pantheon of gods thing built.
Built up because Russell'svery much leaning into that and I'm
all for that. I think it's acool concept. So. Yeah, I agree.

(32:32):
Yeah, pretty cool. And yeah,it was just that ending again with,
with, with Lux. It's justweird. Yeah, it was just kind of
mind you, they did this withSutek though.
I know.
You know, it's like all ofthis, all the whole build up to it
and everything and then heends up just being smashed through
the wall of the time vortexbecause he couldn't hold on to a

(32:54):
piece of string.
And oh, Russell, I mean this,this is the thing, mate, I have to
say. This is what. You know,let me just get this off my chest
now. This is the thing thatcompletely knocked points off for
me when I got to the end of itwas. Yeah, obviously the quick wrap
up. The, the way that the, thefilm cans were set on fire and exploded

(33:15):
and blew A hole in the wall.They would just burn. And what made
him blow up? And there seemedto me like Russell has sort of come
up with a good script and sortof got to the end. And then they
were like, russell, we needthat script in 10 minutes. Oh, yeah.
Oh, I don't know. Some filmcans explode and blow a hole in the
wall. Light comes in the end.And it just, you know, I mean, it

(33:36):
just felt so. I don't want tosay lazy, but I can't think of a
better way to express it. Youknow, it's just like film cans don't
explode, but don't worry aboutit. And we're seeing a lot of that
in Russell's writing duringthe second era of things that, you
know, we just have tooverlook, which is. Yeah, I'm going

(33:56):
to just say it's a bit lazy.You know, it's just a lazy way to
get to the conclusion. And I'msure there was something else, but
looking at my notes, but yeah,the ending just. Just fell really
flat for me, unfortunately.Actually, just backtracking, mate.
Let's get to the meta stuff.What. Because I'm dying to know,
what did you think when theygot trapped and they came through

(34:17):
the television? Because thatwas the bit that me and my partner
were like, oh, this is cool.But I see a lot of people didn't
like the whole coming throughthe TV and meeting actual Doctor
Who fans and. And the wholeBlink joke being the favorite episodes
that now, I gotta say, Ienjoyed it myself, but not everyone
did. What did you think of it?Did you like it?

(34:38):
Yeah, it was kind of cool. Itwas again, like the episode as a
whole, it was a. Just a.Something new. Something different
too.
Yeah, it's kind.
Because Doctor Who, althoughit's been done a lot in the last
year, Doctor Who wasn't reallyknown for doing this stuff before,
was it? Not that it had to,but it was very rare that we had

(35:00):
the fourth Wall thing oranything meta like this. So that
was a start of a really coolpart of the episode, actually, when
they got turned into cartooncharacters at first.
Oh, yes. Actually, I'dactually forgotten. Gotten that.
Yeah.
Yeah. That was cool, havingthose guys as cartoon characters
and then, you know, realizingthat I think it was coming up with

(35:22):
a very sort of deep emotion ofsomething. It just regenerated them
back, you know, slowly through3D and. And that sort of thing. And
then they were stuck in thefilm stock. And then when they tried
to escape, they've gone likethe wrong way around. If that makes
sense. Instead of going backinto the episode and the story, it
looks like they've come intothe real world, our world.

(35:42):
Yeah.
With these Doctor Who fans.And it's. It was, it was really cool,
but also heartbreaking at thesame time because the. Those three
Doctor Who fans and they werevery, very sweet, weren't they? You
had one of them in the dock ofthe Tom Baker scarf. They're all
wearing a Doctor Who T shirtof some sort. And the. I don't know

(36:04):
about you, mate. Did you havea quick second to just catch all
of the merch behind them?
Oh, I saw the Blu Ray sets,mate. Yes. What else did you spot?
Yeah, so there was a little,little Dalek figures, there was some
old DVDs, that was the Blu Raysets and some other bits. It was
very, very cool and. But itwas heartbreaking because they, at

(36:25):
that point in the story, theyknew that they were the ones that
didn't really exist. And itwas like, oh, man, it's like. But
we also had the little trolleymoment as well, didn't we? We had
RIP Doctor Who. Yeah, I'm surethat's. Yeah, it must be Russell
just like, you know, having alittle dig at fandom.

(36:46):
Absolutely, yeah. Oh, yeah.
That wasn't by accident.
No. I mean, I like you. Ifound I wouldn't want this to happen
again. But as a one off thing,I thought it. For me, it was really
interesting and I didn't seeit coming. So when the Doctor stepped
through and I was like, he wastalking Doctor Who fans. I thought,

(37:07):
what the heck is going on now?Personally, I love it when Doctor
Who does this kind of thing,you know, now and again. I mean,
not every week, but. Yeah,this is kind of what I love when
we get an episode like this.I'm probably very much in the minority
that I loved the bit in. Is itcalled it takes you away the Jody

(37:27):
episode, You know, the chairon the frog. Most people hate that.
Poor little frog. I, for me,that was a real hitchhiker's guide
to the galaxy. I really likedthat moment because it was so far
out there, you know, I mean,it was just like, what the heck?
I like it when Doctor Who doesthat every now and again. So, yeah,
I really liked it when theystarted sort of looking at me through

(37:49):
the TV screen and I justthought, yeah, this is kind of what
I want from Doctor Who.Something that's making me think
and, and, and actually keepingme invested and not wanting to look
at my phone. I was really sortof engaged by It. So, yeah, I didn't
mind the whole mayor thing andit didn't go on too long either because
I. I was expecting theanimation to be the animation in

(38:10):
terms of the Doctor andBelinda. I thought that was going
to be a lot more than we got.But again, I think it was just right,
you know, got a little bit ofthat, then this. And it was. You
know, the episode was throwingyou all over the place. So, yeah,
for me, that. That kind of worked.
Yeah. And it was nice thatthey used an old piece of music from.
I can't remember what episodeit was from. It was Matt Smith episode,

(38:33):
I think.
Yeah, it's a. Yeah, yeah.
It was a series five or six.
Amy's theme, but it was. Itwas something like that. Yeah.
Yeah. It had a real lovelysort of nostalgic feel to it and
a nice sort of warm and cozy.Like. This is what millions of other
who fans are doing right nowwith us.
Yeah.

(38:53):
You know what sat aroundwatching Doctor Who and. Which is
really cool. So. Yeah, I likeyou. I appreciated that bit. It was
cool because it was justsomething different and they're just
being creative with thatstuff, which is. So. I think we really
need that at the moment. So.Yeah, I quite like that, dude.
Yeah. Creative ideas, mate.That's. That's what I mean. Something

(39:15):
that's not predictable. Likelast week's episode as an intro.
It was fun, it was enjoyable,but it was very predictable. Russell.
I think I said it in ourreview. It was a very typical RTD
opener. Light flight, Fluffynew companion music. This one, you
didn't quite know where it wasgoing and I appreciate it being like
that. Like you said, it'sdefinitely very much needed at the

(39:38):
moment with Doctor Who just towake us up a bit and think, oh, okay,
they are doing some. Tryingsomething new.
Yeah. Yes. What did you think,too? A couple of bits I want to pick
up on. Dude. Actually, beforeI get on to that, I must mention
what's going on with MurrayGold, mate. I don't know if it's.
I don't know if it's Murrayhaving some kind of say in the final

(40:01):
mix or if it's just the waythis is being mastered and put out
on. I don't know. I'm not sureif watching this through sky here
in the UK via the. By BBC1would be different to watching it
on Iplayer, the app. But themusic is just killing some of the.

(40:21):
The dialogue in some scenes.It's just way too much it. There's
just a couple of Scenes whereyou're trying to. I had to, I had
to skip back. I had to do thewhole, you know, the old 10 second
skip back because I couldn'tcatch what the doctor was saying
in one scene because the musicwas just going ballistic in the background.

(40:41):
And we had this last week inthe Robot Revolution where, yeah,
Murray's music, it's not bad.It's not, don't get me wrong, it's
not as good as a. It used tobe when Murray was in it before,
but it's still not bad music.But yeah, it's just the mix is killing
some of the. Some of thescenes where you're trying to catch
what the. What the actors aresaying. But dude, I'm not. I'll be

(41:04):
honest with you, I'm notfeeling Murray's music since the
comeback. It's. It. It doesn'tfeel like Murray Gold.
Yes and no. Yeah, I'm a bitthe same. There are sometimes when
he does this, I don't likehis. When he. When we were in. So
the scene at the start, forexample, you know, when we get. So
this kind of picks up almoststraight off from the last week's

(41:26):
episode where they're still inthe same clothes. They do the whole
clothes change thing. It's afun scene to get this episode started
and Murray's doing his happy,jingly music. I don't like it. It
just sounds so 2005, to behonest. You know, I mean, it's that
sort of jolly. It's Murray onautopilot, I feel. But then when

(41:47):
we get in the cinema and it'screepy and he's doing all the sort
of 1950s kind of stuff, Ifeel. Oh, okay. I feel like Murray's
woke up now and he's likequite enjoying himself. So it's a
bit of a mixed bag with Murrayfor me at the minute. I. Some of
it just sounds autopilot andthen every now and again he throws
you something and I think, oh,yeah, that's pretty good. I like
that. But we're getting. Wehaven't got any themes. Like it's.

(42:08):
Belinda got a theme, you know,like, you know, like Donna Same or
Rosie's theme. The Doctor'stheme. I haven't picked up on any
sort of standout themes yet. Iknow we're only two episodes in,
but I can't think of any fromseries. Oh, no, actually, sorry.
Series one did have the Doctortheme, didn't it? So, yeah, I don't

(42:29):
know. I know what you meanabout Murray, mate. And the sound
mix. Absolutely agree. It'snot just you. I don't know how this
is still happening in this.Because this complaint about sound
drowning out the dialogue hasbeen going on for years, not just
with Doctor Who, but with TVin general. So how are we still.
How is this still not beingaddressed? Is it because they think

(42:50):
everyone's got a sound system?Because I'm sure it sounds great
through someone who's got 20speakers with, you know, I mean,
surround sound, whatever, butfor your average person watching
on tv, it's. Yeah, it'scompletely drowning out a lot of
the dialogue.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just wantedto pick on. Pick that up, because
I know Russell listens, of course.

(43:11):
Well, I don't know if he doesanymore, but, yeah, he used to.
I don't know if it's too lateto go back and have a little fiddle
with the mix, maybe. But,yeah. Two things I want to pick up
on. The first one is theDoctor and Belinda all call. Now.
That didn't last long, did it?
No.
So it was really cool, thattension between them in the. In the

(43:34):
last episode. They set that upwonderfully with Belinda being this
much stronger person, notbeing swept up in the whole tide
of the Doctor's energy andcharm and everything. She just wants
to go home. Simple as that.They're obviously encountering. Encountering
problems with this wholeparticular date. Actually, I found

(43:55):
it really funny. I waslistening to the Doctor Who show.
Yeah. I love their hot takes.Hi, guys. If you're listening.
Yeah, hi, guys. Their hottakes are really cool and I found
it hilarious when they said,why can't they just land the Tardis
on May 23rd and just chill fora bit? Just wait for it to, you know,

(44:16):
time to tick over. They make avery good point. And I know you shouldn't.
You shouldn't allow your brainto go into that stuff too much because
it just melts, you know? Butin the first episode, they set that
tension up really cool. And atthe start of this episode, it was
still there. Belinda's gettingvery frustrated that she just wants

(44:36):
to go home. And the Doctorsort of gives a bit of a smile, convinces
her after she's put on thecool 50s dress and does her hair
and makeup and stuff. I alsomake at the beginning. What was that
about? Oh, God, the wholeScooby Doo thing where they run out
of one door in the TARDIS andthen another door opens up literally

(45:00):
within a split second andthey're all in different clothes,
you know, like in a Scooby Doocartoon. When they run out of one
door and then further down thecorridor they run out of the different
door. Do you know what I meanby that?
Yeah.
Oh, no, don't do that again,Russell, don't. Don't do that, mate.
But, yeah, but then throughthis episode, they did that thing

(45:22):
where they have to turnthemselves back out of an animated.
Animated people back into reallife people. And so they start, you
know, dropping truth bombs toget their sort of emotional state
charged. And then later on inthe episode, she's like, everything
I said earlier was true. He'slike, yeah, I know. It was true as
well, babes, blah, blah, blah.And then they hold hands, a little

(45:42):
smile and it seems like nowthat's just gone. That's that initial
tension and everything. Wemight see it next week, who knows?
But they just seem to be allgood now, like, yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, this has beenbuilt up to be a big thing. It's
all over the posters. Get herhome. So, yeah, I don't know. Surely
they haven't thrown that wholestoryline away that quick, have they?

(46:03):
I mean, but I thought the samething. I was like, this feels like
a mid season moment when she'slike kissing the Doctor's hand, like
she's really got to know him.And it felt a little bit of a quick
turnaround after last week. SoI absolutely know where you're coming
from, mate. And the datethings bugged me as well. So, yeah,
I was also listening to Roband Dave's hot take on the Doctor
Who show and they were sayingthat and I thought, that's absolutely

(46:26):
right. Why would they. Whycan't you just go back the day before?
It reminds me of when theDoctor couldn't go back and save
Amy and Rory. You know, that.That whole date thing didn't make
any sense. The Doctor can't.The TARDIS can't land on that date.
We'll go back and, you know, afew days before and you know, it's
kind of a. Again, it's a don'tthink too hard about it thing, which,

(46:47):
don't know. It's already beendone once, so it's. I find that frustrating.
Maybe we'll find there outthere is a reason for it. Just while
I mentioned Rob and Dave, mayI also like the fact that I think
it was Dave. No, it might havebeen Rob. I forget which one said
there's an episode of theGoodies from the. Remember the goodies
from the 70s or whenever itwas that actually kind of did this

(47:09):
concept all the way Back then.So I don't know if Russell's been
watching the Goodies recently.Probably I am old enough to remember
the Goodies, but I don'tremember that particular episode,
but I appreciated thembringing it to my attention.
Yeah. Yes, that. That was acool. Yeah, those guys are very cool.
If you've not listened to theDoctor Who show before, don't know
where you've been. But they'rea Doctor Who podcast been running

(47:32):
for years, and they do. Thoseguys are just sort of in. Right in
there with. With. With popculture and everything else, because
they. They also comment on,you know, other types of TV shows.
I think they did a Blake 7.Some Blake 7 stuff at one point.
Yeah. Yeah. And also they talkabout Star wars and other bits and

(47:53):
pieces. Two very cool guys.Just. Yeah, the DOT is just called
the Doctor Who Show and theirhot takes are very cool. And. Yeah,
so I. I remember them talkingabout the Goodies, but I don't. I
wasn't old. I'm not old enoughto remember that. Ah, sorry, mate.
Sorry, dude.
Yeah, well, I hope the datething gets explained, mate, because

(48:16):
it is a bit of a glaringlysort of obvious thing, like. Yeah.
Why can't you go back on a day before.
Yeah. I mean, it seems like alimitation with the TARDIS rather
than the Doctor and stuff,because didn't we have this with.
With the Christmas specialwhere the Doctor had to wait a year.
Oh, yeah.
To do something. I know. Therewas the whole argument about, couldn't

(48:38):
he just go off and find the14th doctor who's chilling out with
a TARDIS in the garden. Yeah,go and do, mate. You've just got
to stop thinking about it.
Exactly. Don't think too hardabout it. I keep thinking of Capaldi's
Doctor in the Davros chair,where he's like, how did I get a
cup of tea? Don't think about it.
Yeah, yeah. But it's true,though. I mean, they could have just

(49:00):
gone back to, like, you know,one minute to midnight May 23rd and
just, you know.
Anyway, we'll see how it pansout. There might be a reason we.
We'll see. We'll see. Theother thing I want to talk about
was. And there seems to be athing that's. That's becoming slightly

(49:21):
more to the forefront, I thinkwith particularly Shoot his doctrine.
This is this whole. Thehandling of racism in certain things.
We had this back in the firstseason, didn't we, with Dot and Bubble?
Yeah.
That was when it really hitviewers in the face in that kind
of. I mean, I. I wasn't a fan,not for this reason, but I wasn't

(49:44):
a fan of. Of that episode atall. If you remember, back to. To
Dot and Bubble.
I do.
And what did we rate that,actually? What did we give it?
I liked it more, a lot morethan you. I wasn't the biggest fan,
but I seem to remember youdidn't really get on board with that
episode.
Yeah. When was that? Lastyear's schedule. When was. Oh, here

(50:06):
we go. Sorry. Dot and Bubble.Yeah, I gave it a three. Crikey.
Whoa.
You gave it seven, mate.
Yeah, seven. Yeah.
But one thing that was. Whatwas a thing in the episode was especially
the ending. Remember theending? I do, yeah. Bloody hell.
But. And they kind of. They'rekind of going down that road again

(50:30):
a little bit with this. AndI'm very appreciative of them doing
that because it's kind ofunavoidable when you have two people
of color trans. Who havetraveled to this particular time
period in this location. Youcould not really have done an episode
like this and not mentioned itto some degree. So it was a real.

(50:55):
I think the Doctor sort ofwarns Belinda a little bit, doesn't
he, at the beginning of theepisode. Yeah, you know, about. Because
of the time period they're in.Etc. And then it really comes to
the forefront a couple oftimes later when they're in the diner
and the Doctor's, like, saysto Belinda, you know, this is where

(51:17):
segregation was still a thing.So we're not even supposed to be
in here at this time. But, youknow, know, the, the guy who's working
in a diner is fairly chill andhe's like, yeah, fine, whatever,
and goes over to the whitesection and chats to one of the,
the mums of the lad who's gonemissing and so on. And later on,
when the, the doctors. Is theDoctor having a hallucination or

(51:40):
Lux is playing a trick onthem, where.
Yeah, Lux is playing a.
That's it. Yeah. And the, theNYP NYPD cop comes in. Because that's
how the Doctor spots the ruse,isn't it? It's like they're in Miami,
but the cop is NYPD and pointsthe gun and says, you know, so the,

(52:01):
the racism stuff, I think it.I. I'm just appreciative that they've.
They've handled it in somekind of way because it would have
been really weird to go backto this time period and not just
be oblivious to it, you know.
Absolutely, mate. And I mean,Doctor's come under a lot of criticism
recently because of, you know,sometimes sledgehammering this sort

(52:22):
of thing into a story. But Ithink in this one, it was nicely
weaved in to the story. Itdidn't feel like we're being hit
over the head with it toomuch. You know, it was just in there
enough to make you think andmake you realize, you know, where
they were and the times weredifferent. The bit where Shooty sort
of looked at his hand as if tosay, oh, yes, you know, I'm a person

(52:43):
of color now. And all thissort of thing, it was. It was just
nice little subtle things, butenough to get the message across
without being too sort offorceful with it. I actually thought
it was. It was weaved into the story.
Well, yes, agreed. Yep. Andwhat did you think to Reginald Pye

(53:03):
then? Played by. What?
Great name.
Yeah. And I kind of feel likewe didn't really see enough of him.
Yeah. Which is, I don't know,a bit of a crossroads in my head,
because his character kind ofserved the purpose where he was a
widow and something awful hashappened. Obviously, Mr. Ringer Ding

(53:29):
has, you know, essentiallykilled these people, it looks like,
to the outside world. But he'sactually trapped them on film, hasn't
he?
Yeah.
And. But he's kind of in asort of perpetual torture where he
doesn't want to push backbecause the character has brought
his wife back to life,essentially. He's got a home videotape

(53:52):
of him and his wife, and Luxis able to bring her back to, quote,
unquote, real life, and he'sable to be with his wife again and
so on. So it was kind of,again, a bit of a heartbreaking thing
in this episode. And so hischaracter served the purpose, but
I feel like towards the end ofit, when he sacrifices himself, even

(54:12):
though Belinda's willing to doit, and we have that lovely moment
where his wife has said, youknow, come and find me, basically
saying, look, you know, on theother side, we'll be together, that
kind of thing. And. And hesacrifices himself. I didn't really
feel too much for him. Ididn't really build too much of emotional
connection to that characterbecause he wasn't really in it that

(54:34):
much. And I didn't really seeenough of him to sort of, you know,
get into it that much. But Ithought the actor was very good,
though. Linus Roach. I thoughthe was. He was very cool. I just
love to have seen thatcharacter get his hands dirty a little
bit more because he was in ita couple of bits, then you didn't
see him for ages. And thenright at the end he's like, you know,
don't worry, I'll sort it out,you know.

(54:56):
Yeah. I mean, I liked thecharacter and I did think that was
a nice bit of writing, youknow, about his wife being in the
film and Lux bringing her backto life when they were having the
dance and all that. So I didlike that element of the story. And
I agree with you. I thinkLinus Roach played the part really

(55:17):
well because I liked thecharacter Reginald PI. I think I
know what you're getting at.It would have been nice to have had
him perhaps a bit moreinvolved in the story, because it
was kind of just there when itneeded to be. But I liked him. I
thought it was a nice part ofit. I did like the scenes of his
wife, actually. You've justreminded me of some of the stuff

(55:37):
when I was trying to think ofearlier when I was talking about
lazy writing. And actuallysome of it does hark back to Reginald
Pye in terms of. Had questionslike, who locked the cinema? How
did Reginald Pye survive inthere? You know, what was he eating?
What was he doing? And also,how did the people who were trapped
in the film just magicallycome back to life? Surely they were

(56:00):
burnt. So there were thingslike that all around, that sort of
character, which frustratedme. And again, I'm just going to
tell myself to just go withit, but you know what I mean. When
I was trying to think earlierabout things that didn't quite. If
you start sort of questioning,it didn't quite add up. There were
a few bits I thought, oh, hangon, what happened there? Yeah, but,

(56:21):
yeah, it's a nice, nicecharacter. I like. I like Reginald
PI.
Yeah, but those are just.Again, those are little things, aren't
they, where you have to justnot. Not think too much for too long.
Yeah, it's difficult as a DOT two.
Fan, but, yeah, yeah, therewere some cool little references
to other things in the episodewhich I quite liked. Oh, the story.

(56:41):
The song, by the way, iscalled Sad man in A Box.
Oh.
And it's from series five andthat's what was playing in the fourth
wall, the Doctor Who fans moment.
Yeah. Okay. That's a cool playon. On the title, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. And I like thefact that the Doctor talks about

(57:03):
Gallifrey, mentions it alittle bit. Yes, that was quite nice.
It's always cool when. Whenthe Doctor mentions that because
it kind of. It kind ofExplains a little bit to the companion,
especially a new companion,that he's not just, you know, one
of many Time Lords, you know,running amok sort of thing. He is

(57:28):
supposedly. Other than.Because he does mention the BI generation.
He does, yeah. Oh, yeah. Ididn't like that bit. That felt a
bit too convenient to me.Like, how can the Doctor just suddenly
heal himself? Like, I knowthey can do it when just after they've
regenerated. The 10th doctorsaid that, didn't he? You know, there's
this time period where they'restill healing, but stored by regeneration

(57:49):
now. Again, a little bitcrazy, I know.
Yeah. So he does mention that.He mentions Gallifrey. He's the last
of, of course.
Yeah.
It was cool that in this weekwe had the. The episode Blink. The
fans say that their favoriteepisode is Blink.
Yeah, I like that little gag.

(58:10):
Yeah. And he's a bitdisappointed that they didn't like
the one with the goblins and.And all that stuff is quite cool.
And. And obviously the ScoobyDoo references. He refers himself
as Velma, Belinda as Fred andblah, blah, blah. Yeah. So there
are some cool little nuggetsof things dropped in throughout the
episode, which is quite cool.And then as we said earlier on, at

(58:33):
the end we get the Mrs. Floodbit. That's very intriguing. So,
yeah, is there anything elseon your notes, dude?
No, not really. I mean, justto say I'm sort of still. I'm liking
the 15th Doctor and Belindatogether. I think, again, they're
showing good chemistry again.Like you, I found it odd that the
whole get home thing seems tohave been dropped, but I feel like

(58:56):
we're going to come back tothat. Some dodgy American accents.
That was one of my notes, youknow, but that's kind of. I don't
mind that. It reminded me ofthe Daleks in Manhattan. One where
everyone's talking a bit likethis and, you know. But, yeah, dodgy
American accents. What elsehave I got on my notes? Liked the
Blink reference, you said? No,I think I pretty much covered it,

(59:18):
actually, mate. Overall.
Yeah, yeah. Just lastly, forme, I thought it was quite cool that
Lux was in the know about theDoctor defeating the toy maker and
Sutek. Yeah, yeah, that wasquite cool because it shows. It was
a. It was a cool way ofshowing his. What's the word? Omnipresence.

(59:40):
All knowing, it's like godlikething where he's, you know, he's
clued up on everything. Sothat. I thought that was quite cool
for his character. But like,you Said earlier, just a shame that
he ended up just as a pie inthe sky.
And I have to say, actually,while I remember that Alan Cumming,

(01:00:01):
like you said earlier, wasbrilliant, actually, great choice
of casting to do the voicebecause he really did bring that
character to life, you know,worked. He made the most of what
he was given. And again, likeI said, I think Alan Cumming could
have really. If he'd beengiven more meat on the bones, he
could have really taken thatcharacter to some scary places. But

(01:00:22):
he was great with what he wasgiven, I have to say.
Yeah. Yes. Oh, got one morething. My notes just turned the page.
Sorry. There was a really coollittle reference to one of my favorite
films ever, Galaxy Quest.
Oh, yeah.
Those of you that have notseen Galaxy Quest. So this is again,
this is the bit in the fourthwall where the fans are and that

(01:00:46):
she's like, Hassan's like, youknow, we are biggest fans. And the
other character, Lizzie'slike, oh, my God, you're really real.
This is so Galaxy Quest. Iknew it. I knew it. So those of you
that have not heard of GalaxyQuest, it's essentially a film back.
I'm sure it's like the early2000s or late 90s. It's a booth of
Star Trek. It's basically my.I won't spoil it for you. It's hilarious.

(01:01:11):
Alan Rickman, Sigourney Weaverand he's the main guy.
I can't remember the actor'sname for years.
But yeah, Never Surrender.It's. It's such a good film. Anyway,
I got that in my notes as thelast thing that they mentioned. Galaxy
Quest.
Yeah, I'm just Googling it. Imust find out his name.

(01:01:33):
He plays Buzz Lightyear.What's his name?
This is us with names.
This is us with names again,dude. Frantically googling.
Tim Allen.
Tim Allen. There we go. Heplays. Yeah. Oh, man.
1999, it was. Wow.

(01:01:54):
It was the late 90s party.
Like it's 1999. There you go.
Oh, man, it's a great film. Ifyou want just a. Just a good laugh
for an hour and a half. Galaxy Quest.
Anyway, I really feel likewatching that now.
Yeah, same. It's amazing,right? Scores. I think it's me to
go first.
It is.
I'm gonna give this a 6.5 outof 10. I think it was a. I think

(01:02:20):
it was a good. Watch this. Iquite like the creativity and a slight
change up and doing some wackythings, even though it's not everyone's
taste. Yeah, whatever. Quitelike the whole fourth wall thing.
The Doctor Who fansappreciated that. There was just
a few things that didn't quiteland for me. So I can't rate it any
higher than that. But whatabout you, dude?

(01:02:41):
I'm slightly higher than you.I'm 7.5. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I thought
it's kind of. I want more ofthis from Doctor Who. Not the same,
but I like it when it takesrisks and try something new. So,
yeah, 7.5. It could have been.I thought this was going to be an
8.5 easily, but it justfizzled out to what it is. The ending
didn't land at all. And alsothe other thing on my notes was all

(01:03:04):
this Honey and babes thing isstarting to get on my wick because
I really like his shoot. He'sthe Doctor. But then he starts doing
all these high kicks andhoney, I'm Belmont. And I'm like,
oh, no, it's not for me. Butyeah, it was good. I did like it.
It's probably might be one ofmy favorite shooting episodes so
far. To be fair. The bar isthat high. But this is. Yeah, this

(01:03:26):
is more like it. People havecriticized Doctor Who at the moment
for not feeling like DoctorWho. This, to me, for the most part,
felt like, you know, what Iconsider good Doctor Who for the
most part.
Yeah. Agreed. Yes. And nextweek's episode, the. Well, that looks
quite a bit darker.
It does. I don't know muchabout this. This one not heard much,

(01:03:48):
which is good. Going into it.A bit blind. So. Yeah, quite looking
forward to that.
Indeedy. Niel. Alrighty. Andso a 6.5 for me, a 7.5 from him and
I think that will conclude.Bud. Our review of Luxon, episode
421.
Alrighty.

(01:04:32):
Thank you. Thank you very muchfor listening to another episode
of the Big Blue Box. That wasepisode 421. And our review of the
episode, luckily, from seasontwo of Shooty's second season and
from season two of Shooty'sSecond Season. You know what I mean?

(01:04:52):
I know what you mean.
Season two, basically. Andyeah, so 6.5, 7.5. Next week, the.
Well, we'll. We'll see whatthat one serves up. We'll be back
next week, of course, to giveyou our thoughts on that. In the
meantime, make sure you arefollowing or subscribing in your
favorite podcast app ofchoice. That way you won't miss a
notification when new episodesdrop. And we've also got the monthly

(01:05:14):
roundtables, which are goingto resume this month. It's going
out this week this for Aprilso stay tuned for that as well. We
get the writing team together.We chat all things Doctor Who so
make sure you are in for that.You can also listen online, head
over to the websitebigblueboxpodcast.co.uk and you can
also read all of the reviewsand articles from the writing team.

(01:05:35):
We've got some big finishreviews coming up from Jordan this
week so get stuck into those.And don't forget to remember to check
out my co host channel over onYouTube. It is of course the Geeks
Handbag.
Geeks handbag on YouTube. I'malso on all the socials under the
same name. The Geeks Handbag indeed.
Go check out Adam's stuff andtalking to the socials. We're on
all of those as well. Thereare links on the website or just

(01:05:57):
do a search for the big bluebox. And we've also got a free Discord
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Who with loads of other verycool Doctor Who fans. And having
said that, let's wrap it theredude. My name's Garry. My name's
Adam and until next time, remember.