Hello 2025 and Our Review of Joy to the World

Episode Transcript
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(00:18):
Hey, hey, hey who fans andwelcome to the Big Blue Box Podcast.
My name's Garry. My name isAdam and Welcome to episode 416.
Yeah.

(00:47):
Hey, hey, hey, you lots.Welcome to 2025 and another episode.
We hope you had a crackingChristmas and New Year and hopefully
you manage to do somethingDoctor who.
Doctor who related.
He's in there.
You bet I am.
That was his New Year'sresolution, guaranteed.

(01:08):
Take that, Take that.
Yeah. Oh, dude. We are backbehind microphones recording more
Doctor who after a wee break.It's good to be back, dude.
It is really good to be back.Where have these last few months
gone, man? It's like crazy.It's 2025.
Indeed. It's been manic.

(01:28):
Can't believe it.
Yeah. So welcome, dearlistener, if this is your come. If
you're coming back to thepodcast after a few weeks of no episodes
other than the roundtables, ofcourse, I'm talking about the weekly
ones with. With Adam and I.Then welcome back the Grizzled Ancient.
It's good to see you and hearyou here and if you are new to the
podcast, if this is your firsttime listening to the Big Blue Box,

(01:50):
then welcome aboard as well.If it's good to have all of you back.
It's. Yeah, it's been a bitmanic the last few months because
Adam's been traveling aroundthe US I've done some travel, busy
with work, family stuff, thenChristmas stuff to sort out. And
yeah, it's just been a busyold time of year, the last. The last
month so of 2024. So, yeah,it's very cool to be back. We've

(02:13):
got. Our main thing for thisepisode is our review of the recent
Christmas special, Joy to theWorld. We're going to get onto that
in a few moments and. Andwe're going to just round up a few
new stories that have beenannounced over the last few weeks
as well, to make sure thateveryone is up to speed with all
the latest Doctor who news. Sowe'll get on to that. But, bud, I

(02:34):
hope you had a good Christmas,dude. I know you're a bit sickly
at the moment, but other thanthat, have you been all right?
Yeah, bit sickly, yeah, no, Ihad a great Christmas. And yeah,
unfortunately, heading intothe new year, I've been floored by.
I've picked up some nasty oldbug. But that's. That's to be expected,
I think. Sees everyone's gotsomething, so. But apart from that,
man, it's all been. Been goodAnd I've been enjoying all the stuff

(02:56):
going on over Christmas andNew Year and we've had some nice
things announced and, andgiven to us. Doctor who related.
And we like War Games incolor. Loved coming back and watching
that. And the announcement ofthe series Season seven box set as
well. Very exciting. We've gotsome BFI things been announced there,

(03:18):
lots of lovely treats on theway and yeah, it's all been good,
man. As I said, apart fromfeeling a bit rough and a bit sorry
for myself and a bit croaky.It's. Yeah, everything's good.
Good stuff. Yeah. You've justrecapped some of the things that
we were going to bring up inthe little news list, so.
All right.
War Games in color. That was.That was an interesting one for,

(03:40):
for fandom more than anything.In fact, it got to a point where
Phil Collins and the produceron that and the producer on Doctor
who was interviewed about itby the Radio Times and he had to
clarify to everybody and say,look, this is not a replacement for
the original War Games. Thisis just, you know, a new 2024 as

(04:06):
at the time, look and feel forit for younger who fans more than
anything. It was, yeah, he.And you have to agree with him to
a. To an extent there. Hebasically said, look, we can't expect
younger fans to sit throughhours and hours of black and white
old Doctor who. So while thereprobably is a bunch of younger fans

(04:27):
that are happy to do that, themajority probably won't. So, you
know, you can't really arguewith that. But the thing that was
that, that was weird aboutthat was, yeah, a huge chunk of fandom
was like, I can't believethey're replacing the War games with
this 90 minute edit. And I,I'm a purist and I, I want my, I
want my original War Games.Thank you. I don't want this to say,

(04:51):
ironically, the issue was notaround the colorization. Nobody had
any problems with thatwhatsoever. And I think you'll agree,
dude, that it was a step upfrom the Daleks in color. The colorization
on this was amazing.
It looked gorgeous. It reallydid look great. Yeah, yeah.
So that people didn't have aproblem with that. They thought that,

(05:12):
like on Iplayer, if you wentto watch the War Games, this is the
version you would see insteadof the original 10 episode. Black
and white, whatever. But yeah,I think everyone got their knickers
in a twist a little bit overthat. That was all good, but that
was a good one. And then asyou said, Season 7 the new Blu Ray
collection box set wasannounced and we're probably going

(05:33):
to get that. I don't know.What do you reckon? March, April,
something like that?
Oh, I hope it comes before I.Because I'm heading back to the US
in January. March. So I'mreally hoping it comes out before
March, but I think it's goingto be close. I think the BFI event
is the beginning of Feb, soMarch, I reckon it's going to be
April. I think it's going.

(05:54):
Yeah, end of March, beginningof April, something like that. But
so, yeah, season seven's aninteresting one. Obviously John Pert
to his first outing as theDoctor. So that. See, that series
is a. Yeah, I know we'vereviewed all of these, so you and
I are probably in agreementthat the this season is bookended
by two great episodes. SoSpearhead and Inferno. Yeah, it's

(06:18):
two great episodes. The middletwo, the Silurians and the Ambassadors
of Death. Jury's out on, youknow, how you feel about those two
episodes or stories, Listener,but certainly an interesting box
set and some really goodfeatures as usual on these.
Yeah, I mean, I must admit thelast time I watched Silurians, I.

(06:41):
I really enjoyed actually. Iremember the first sort of time I
gave it a re watch after manyyears I found it a bit slow and it
was like, it's not as good asI remember, but I really enjoyed
it the last time I watched itand maybe I was just in the mood
for it. Ambassadors has someiconic stuff in it, but it. Yeah,
it does drag a little bit inplaces. But overall though, a cracking

(07:01):
season. I mean, Pertwee'sfirst season is. Is a. And like you
said Spearhead at the startand Inferno, topping it is, is just.
Yeah, Inferno is probably oneof my favorite stories actually.
I think it's a great sevenparter. And Pertweet's on fire in
that story. My God, has hefound his doctor like. Well, he finds

(07:22):
it very quickly, actually, buthe is absolutely on fire in that
story, literally.
He is, isn't he?
Yeah, yeah.
So when you and I reviewedSpearhead together, we gave that
a 9. Yeah, both gave that a 9out of 10. And I can't find Inferno.
I can't remember what we. Whatwe. We scored that one, but. Oh no.

(07:42):
So I have got it here. We givethat a 9 as well.
All right. Yeah, I was gonnasay I thought we gave it a high score.
Yeah, nines all around. Sothat's pretty cool. So, yeah, season
seven is up for pre order now.The usual places here in the uk,
Amazon, hmv, a place calledWave Something Rare Waves, I think,
something like that.

(08:03):
Oh, yeah.
And you can audit from those.Yeah. So, yeah, get that ordered.
As always. You have to have abell. Little. A little bell sound
effect because we say thisevery time there's a new box set
announced. But if you want oneof these box sets, you have to pre
order because they do sellout. So get your pre ordering fingers
lively on that one. And thenwe had the Savages announced as the

(08:27):
upcoming next kind of missingstory that's going to be animated,
which is. Which went under theradar a little bit. You know, there
wasn't much fanfare for thatone. I'm not sure if that's because
the Savages is viewed as afairly mediocre story by most or
people are just not toobothered about it. I'm not sure.

(08:47):
But I don't know. I think thismight be a little gem in the animated
line.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I feellike this could turn out to be a
little gem. I must admit, it'snot a story I'm very familiar with,
but people tell me it's a goodone and I must have, like, listened
to it. I mean, does any of itexist? Is this one where none of

(09:07):
it exists? I'm not sure, but Imust have, like, listened or watched
it in some sort of format overthe years. But I can't remember anything
about this one. But, yeah, Iwas a bit like that when it was announced.
I thought, oh, that's not whatI was expecting. So I didn't get
very excited by it. But I hearit's good, so. And I'm glad to see
Hartnell getting anotheranimation as well. So I'm. Yeah,

(09:30):
I'm kind of looking forward to it.
Yeah, same. So I think thiscould be a cool. It's. It's. Sometimes
you do have that. Right. Wehave an episode that's just forgotten
or a story that's just notreally in the, you know, top of mind
of a lot of fans and stuff.But then you have something like
this come along and. And itends up being really good. So I think

(09:52):
this could be because all fourepisodes are missing.
Oh, they are, okay.
They are missing. But I thinkthe. All the audio recordings are
still there for every episodeand there's a bunch of still photographs
and clips and whatnot. So theycould have done. I guess they could
have done a, like a telesnapsreconstruction kind of deal with

(10:16):
this. But. Yeah, so end ofMarch anyway, 24th of March. That's
the release date. Pen tooledin at the moment for the animated
stuff, so we'll see how thatgoes. It could be cool. Our boy Tom,
Tom Baker has been awardedwith an MBE. Yes, Very much deserved.
Right, absolutely. I'm so. I'mthrilled for Tom, actually. Yeah,

(10:39):
this is lovely, Lovely News.
Yeah. 90 years old and finallygot some. Some recognition. So this
is for contribution totelevision. So. Yeah, that's a good
one. And I think the actualceremony for this is at some point
20, 25, where he actually goesto the palace, you know, gets his.

(11:01):
His award and all that stuff,so that'd be good. And he did a little
clip recently. Did you seethat? He did a little. Yeah, a little
Happy Christmas clip, I thinkit was. Or.
I loved it. I think. CygnusAlpha. Was it Cygnus Alpha? No.
I think so, yeah.
Cygnus Alpha, yeah. Let meGoogle it, make sure I'm crediting
the right people. Yeah, they.They posted a little YouTube clip

(11:25):
of him that they'd filmedwhere he lives. Well, I think he's
actually in the pub around thecorner for where he lives, since
Tom spends a lot of time bythat fireplace in his local pub.
Yeah. And it was just lovely,wasn't it? It's just saying thank
you to the fans, of which hehas many. And it was. I can't remember
what else he says, but it'ssuch a typical Tom sort of moment,

(11:47):
isn't it?
It's lovely.
Yeah, it's a lovely littlevideo. Yeah.
And he's looking. Well, youknow, there was a. There was a space
of time over the last year orso where anytime in the public a
photo was released of him or aclip or something, everyone would
comment immediately on howfrail he looked and how, you know,

(12:07):
how his age is showing, ofcourse, and. And stuff, which is
an obvious thing, but I don'tknow, in this, he seemed to have
a nice little grin and alittle twinkle in his eye and. Yeah,
he did. He didn't look toobad. He looked all right.
No, I mean, I think Tom. Imean, how old is he now? Is he 90
now? 90, yeah, 90. I mean, hedoes obviously look frail. He's 90

(12:27):
years old, for goodness sake.Of course. I think, Thomas, whenever
we see Tom, if you see apicture of him, you think, oh, golly,
looks, you know, looks thin.But then you. When you see videos
of him like this and you hearhim speak, he is still absolutely
all there. He's, you know,he's still got that twinkle in his
eye, like you said, and hehasn't changed at all. He's still

(12:48):
the Tom Baker that we sort ofall love. So I. He does. He seems
in good spirits. Really goodspirits. You know, I love that little
clip. And it is Cygnus Alpha,by the way. Yes. They. They do events
and I think Ian, who runsCygnus Alpha, he, you know, obviously
organized these little videoclips which were wonderful. I think
there was two. There was onetalking about the fans, wasn't there?

(13:11):
And then another one. I forgetwhat Tom says in the other one, but
there was two little videoclips and they were both wonderful.
They were. Yeah. Oh, such aguy. Such a top guy, Tom, and very
much justified giving him theMBE for that. So that'll be something
else to hang on as well. He'sgot another. He's got another decade

(13:33):
in him, at least. I think he'sgot, you know, a bunch more Big Finish
stories in him. Well,basically, yeah.
They've recorded up until,like, for the next 10 years. And
I mean, joking aside, I thinkthey've got so much Tom Baker in
the can still ready torelease. Yeah, we'll be having Tom
Baker for many years to comefrom Big finish.
Yeah.

(13:53):
You know, I think the reasonwe all worry about Tom is because,
you know, he is getting to acertain age and he is the Doctor
that many, many people love.And we just don't want, you know,
we just can't bear the thoughtthat one day, you know, he might
take the TARDIS and leavethis. This planet. And unfortunately,
that will happen one day. ButI think that's why people get so
concerned about his health. Ithink it is. It does come from a

(14:15):
place of love, of that we justdon't want anything to happen to
him. You know, it's alwayslike we're all safeguarding him,
isn't it?
Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a.Yeah, you nailed it there. I think
a lot of people that grew upwatching Tom, like, if Tom Baker
is their Doctor from, youknow, from the classic era, and if
you're a. Also, if you're afan of newer Doctor who, if you are

(14:37):
that certain age that, as youwere growing up, the 2005 stuff onwards,
was your Doctor who, and thenyou somehow, you know, started to
dip your toe into classichuman stuff, it's very, very common.
You know, we all know it'svery common that Tom's Doctor is.
Has a very unique pull to itand is very likable. And just that

(14:58):
era of Doctor who is justamazing. Of course, and stuff like
that. So when, like you said,it comes from a place, a place of
love, it's almost like withsome of these classic doctors like
McCoy and Colin Baker and, youknow, Davison, all the classic that
they often feel like they'reimmortal because they've been around
for so long, especially Tom,you know, they've. And McCoy, McCoy's

(15:21):
starting to knock on a bit nowand. Yeah, but he's like, like Tom,
like all his marbles arethere. I'm not sure he had all of
them to begin with, but, youknow, he's still zany and crazy and
stuff like that. But wheneveryou see them at conventions, like
even 2024, and they're talkingto fans and they're getting photos
and they're chatting away,they're still rocking and rolling,

(15:42):
they're still, you know,there's no, Although they're knocking
on a bit in age, there's no.We don't know their private lives,
but it doesn't seem likethere's anything concerning, like
health wise. They're stilllike. There was a, an event that
McCoy was at just literally acouple of months ago in the US and
he did that thing that henormally does when he's doing Q&As

(16:04):
where he just grabs the mic,hops down off the stage and just
whizzes around the audiencefor half an hour, you know, and he
still, he feels like he'seating all the blue Smarties again
and, you know, he's going nutsand stuff. So, yeah, dude, it feels
like these classic doctoractors are like immortal, you know,
they're still going and stuff.So long, may that continue with all

(16:28):
of these guys. So, yeah, sothat's Tom. And then lastly, to get
back to the news, we got theteaser trailerland, Very, very small
teaser at the end of theCrimbo Special for season two, which
we think is going to landroughly March time.
Ish.

(16:49):
So there was a few littlesnippets in there. We got to see
the new companion, we got tosee a new outfit for the Doctor and
a couple of new bits. But didit, did it get you excited for the
next season or are you a bit indifferent?
I'll be honest, mate, I washoping we'd get a trailer for season
two. I was really lookingforward to it. It wasn't a bad trailer,
but nothing really grabbed me.There was just one shot I think,

(17:11):
which intrigued me, which Ithink is the shot a lot of people
have picked up on is, is thiscartoon character sort of crawling
out of A cinema screen. Ithought, oh, that looked good. But
everything else just seemed tojust glaze over me, like nothing.
There was no sort of. What wasthat? You know, I don't know. It.
I'm not saying it was a badtrailer or, you know, it didn't look

(17:32):
fun and exciting, but justnothing to really get Motif into
in it, you know.
Right.
So it kind of. Yeah, it fell abit flat for me, if I'm honest. The
trailer, it didn't get mebuzzing for series two like I was
hoping it would. That's not tosay I'm not excited for it. I am.
And it's. It's going to beweird because I think when series
two drops, I'll be back in theStates and it'll be the first time

(17:55):
I've watched Doctor who onDisney plus, which I know is, you
know, doesn't really make anydifference, but it'll be strange
for me to be, you know,watching on Disney plus rather than
BBC. But yeah, I don't know,mate. It didn't really do anything
for me, if I'm honest. It justwas just there.
Yeah.
And I thought, okay, whatabout you? Did anything grab you

(18:16):
in it?
Yeah, there was a couple ofbits in it that I thought were really
good. The first one is that.And I know we say this every time
that there's a new season, itkind of like incrementally gets better,
but the visual, cinematicfeel, it's. Some of them. Yeah. Some
of the shots were like thewarping blur effects that the Doctor's

(18:37):
experiencing inside thetardis. There's a scene where it
almost looks like. Like theway that they've color graded this
and stuff. There's like allthese flying saucers zipping around
this sort of futuristiccityscape at sunset. When I first
saw it, I was like, huh, isthat the. Is that the Capitol on

(18:57):
Gallifrey sort of thing? Idon't think it is, but it's got that
vibe to it. And then there'sanother shot where, like, these astronauts
are dropping down out of aspaceship and, and stuff. It looks
really cinematically gorgeousfrom that perspective. But there's
a couple of things thatintrigued me. There was the Doctor
with a. It looks like a kindof 70s 60s hairstyle.
Oh, yeah.

(19:17):
With the new companion andstuff. And there's a, A little clip
of. Of. Of Ruby. She'sobviously back for some of this.
Yeah. And there's also a scenewhere there's a giant cartoon character
coming out of the cinemascreen that looks like that Old fashioned,
like early Disney style,cuphead video game, that's it kind

(19:37):
of thing.
Yeah.
So that looks cool as well.So, yeah, I wouldn't say it got me,
you know, sort of hopping upand down, you know, can't wait to,
to get into it. But I do thinkthere are some, some cool things
to come in this season. Ithink it's going to be a slightly
different vibe. Although thiswas filmed almost at the same time

(19:59):
as season one, I think a lotof fans have got some trepidation
about that. Especially ifseason one didn't quite land for
you and you're thinking, well,season two was filmed at the same
time almost. Are we just infor more of the same? I think, I
think there could be adifferent vibe to this one, dude.
Slightly different. So I'm upfor it. But I wouldn't say I'm losing

(20:20):
sleep with excitement for it,if that makes sense.
No, I get it. I mean, I'm thesame, I thought, yeah, perfectly
decent trailer. But I thinkwhat's quite telling is that even
just listening to you talkabout some of the things in it, I'm
thinking, oh yeah, I rememberthat, I remember that. Yeah. But
nothing has made me go back torewatch it. Like, I think it's quite
telling that I haven't goneback to rewatch it too much. Like,

(20:43):
I remember when the trailersfor the 60th Specials dropped and
we were like, how many timesdid we watch that trailer? We were
just buzzing and we obviously,we know how they turned out. But
you know, the trailers got usreally hyped and they looked so cinematic,
we, we couldn't wait to seethem hit the screen. And I just haven't
quite got that feeling withthis. As I said, I think I watched

(21:05):
it, I've watched it twice,which for a new series trailer is
not a lot. So I don't know, Ijust think that, that, that speaks
volumes really. As I said, I'mnot saying it's bad, I'm not saying
there isn't stuff in there toget excited about, but it's just
not grabbed me in the way anew series trailer should, I don't
think. But yeah, we shall see.But I am looking forward to series

(21:26):
two. I hope it does have aslightly different vibe to it. I
mean, we've got a newcompanion, so that should give a
different dynamic for a start.But yeah, and I am intrigued by the
thing in the cinema. Don'tknow what it is. It did make me think
of that Torchwood episodewhere things come out of the screen.
Do you remember?
Oh, yeah.
Kind of gave me that vibe. SoI hope it's not sort of retreading

(21:48):
stuff they've already done,but, yeah, that. That did excite
me. I like the look of that.
Yeah, same. So we'll see onthat one. We've only got a few months
to go, really, before we getpotentially the season seven box
set and then season two andstuff. So I think in the first half
of the year we're going to getplenty of Doctor who, and then we've
got the Savages releasing aswell in March.

(22:10):
So how many Blu Ray sets doyou think we'll get this year? Three
or four?
I reckon two.
Only two?
Yep. No, no, I reckon two. Ireckon we're gonna get you old Scrooge.
I know. I reckon we're gonnaget one around Easter time. I think
early April is gonna be thefirst one and then I think October,

(22:33):
November, time for the secondone. You just got a feeling, mate.
Yeah, we're gonna get two.
You think they're spreadingthem out a bit? I mean, I. I want
them out as soon as possible.You know, I'm not getting any younger,
but, yeah, I. I do get thefeeling they are not slowing down
as much. But, you know, nowthat we've got halfway through the
collection, I don't know, Idon't want them to slow up. I think

(22:55):
a minimum of three this yearwould be good. I forgot to say in
the waffle, mate, I. Iobviously have finally been able
to open my season 25 box setwhen I come back, and that has been
an absolute. I mean, that isjust fantastic. I think it's probably
the best set they've done sofar. Like, I've watched all of the

(23:15):
stories with the new updatedeffects and stuff, which are great.
So finally got to seeHappiness Patrol with the new effects
because obviously me and youwent to the BFI screening where they
sent the wrong file, so Ifinally seen it. Fantastic. But the
new extras as well, I mean,it's. They've really gone to town
on. On that season 25 set. Ihave been loving it. I mean, that's

(23:37):
one of the. Although I've beenill and just sat on the sofa in a
blanket, I've. I've had thatto sort of, you know, while away
the time and it's been such ajoy going through it, I tell you.
And I'm still not finished,actually. I've still got stuff on
it that I've not watched.There is still more extras that I
need to Watch. So it's, it's aheck of a set.

(23:59):
It's great. Yeah, I think Iagree with you. I think it's the
best one that they've done sofar. It's fantastic. So that one.
Yeah, love that. I thinkseason 17 was a good one for me as
well, Tom. Yeah, I think thatwas another good one. But anyway,
yeah, 25 is a great one, dude.All right, cool. Let's, let's stick

(24:26):
a pin in the news as we getcloser to season two and some of
the other bits that arehappening in a year. We'll obviously
keep you guys updated on whatis going on. So if you want to stay
in the loop and make sure thatyou are part of the big blue box
community as well, then makesure that you are following or subscribing
to this podcast in whateverapp you listen to your podcasts on,

(24:46):
especially if you're a newlistener and it's a recent listen
for you. We put a new episodeepisode out usually every Friday
if we're not busy or away ortraveling or whatnot. And we also
have a monthly roundtableepisode where we draft in Maria,
Matt, Harry and Jordan fromour writing team. And we just sit

(25:07):
around a virtual table andchat about anything we want to do
with Doctor who. They'realways a really good laugh and really
insightful as well. So werelease those once a month. And plus
you can listen on the websiteas well, which is bibliocspodcast.co.uk.
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(25:30):
the writing team. So there'splenty to get stuck into over there.
We're on the socials too.There are links on the website. Come
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(25:50):
user, you. You can hop inthere and there's always loads of
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community of who fans that'sgrowing all the time over there.
So hop in there and chat toplenty of Doctor who. And finally,
don't, don't forget toremember to check out my co host
channel on YouTube. It'scalled the Geeks Handbag.

(26:13):
Geeks Handbag, Yeah. I'veactually managed to drop a few videos
before Christmas. And yeah, Iwas. Don't know if you got to see
my prom video, but I was sopleased with. Of course, yeah, so
not to be big headed. I wasjust so pleased how that actually
turned out. And it was a videoI hadn't planned. It was Maria, you
know, one of our writing teamwho actually said, you're not vlogging
it. I'm like, no, I don'treally do that anymore. She's like,

(26:34):
oh, you ought to. And Ithought, oh well, I'll. I'll record
a bit of footage in case. Andthen I sort of had no intention of
doing it. And then I watchedwhat I'd actually recorded and thought,
got some good stuff here.Actually, I think I will put this
together, this video. So ittook a bit long for me to get it
together but I'm reallypleased that it came out. So yeah,
go and check out my YouTubechannel Geeks handbag and I've got
a couple more videos on theway. So yeah, if you like Doctor

(26:56):
who. It's mainly Doctor who.Go check it out.
Yes, go and check out Adam'son the socials as well under the
same name, the Geeks Handbag.And he often does polls and ask for
opinions on the latest Doctorwho stuff and all that. So yeah,
just grab a cup of tea, getcomfy, fire up the geek's handbag
and. And watch all of Adam'sgeekery stuff over there. Alrighty,

(27:22):
dude, review time. What we got?
Yeah, let's get into it. Soit's the Doctor who Crimbo special
and it's called Joy to the World.
Is this Christmas? Yes, we'redoing a special Christmas everywhere
all at once.
Oh, good. Ham and cheese.

(27:42):
Toasty and a pumpkin latte.Who are you?
Wrong room. We are on a topsecret mission. What? Who are you
then?
Joy.
Top name. Joy.
Thank you. How do I get tomeet you?
You'll find out. Who are you?You'll find out.
What do I do?
Where do I go? We'll find out.

(28:02):
Oh, do you see?
You have to be mysterious allthe time.
That's why.
Why everyone leaves you. Thatis why you were always alone. Promises
to keep.
We can do this.
What's the biggest mystery inthe non universe?

(28:27):
Joy to the World.
There you go.
There you go. This was the2024 Christmas special broadcast
obviously on the 25th ofDecember. Has a runtime of just shy
of 50 odd minutes. I thinkit's about 52 minutes the runtime.
It was written by StephenMoffat, the Moff Bag. It was Directed

(28:48):
by Alexandief Pillay and wasoverseen by the usuals, Russell T.
Davis, Julie gardner, philcollinson, etc. Stars shooty gatma,
obviously, as the 15th doctor.I always mispronounce this actress's
name. I'm very sorry. I thinkit's Nicola Coughlin. I think is

(29:08):
how you pronounce it.
I think you've got. I thinkyou're right.
There could be. And. And thenwe've got about a dozen supporting
cast members. Synopsis veryshort and sweet, is this Christmas.
The Doctor is thrown togetherwith a cheery yet lonely hotel guest
with a connection to amysterious briefcase. Dot, dot, dot

(29:29):
ellipsis. So that's the.That's all you get? That's all you
got.
That's it.
From the baby on this one. So,dude, Joy to the World, the latest
Crimbo special. No longer theNew Year's Eve or New Year's Day.
Festive Special. Shenanigansfrom Chibbers. We're back to Christmas
Day. What were your thoughtson this one, dude?

(29:50):
Actually, I'm intrigued. Didyou actually watch it on Christmas
Day?
I did.
You did?
Yes.
Okay. Did you watch it alone?
I'm not a fake fan like you do.
No, I didn't watch OnChristmas Day. Did you watch it with
the fam or were you locked ina room because they. They would doing
something else.
Oh, no, just me, so.
Oh, no, just you locked in adarkened room with the Baileys.

(30:11):
Oh, no, no, I was gonna sayme. Just me and the wife. So we both
watched it. I must admit, Iwill make an admission here. I'm
always transparent. I did fallasleep 20 minutes in. Now, you'll
find out later whether wasthat due to the quality of the episode
or whether I was tired due tosomething else? You'll find out.

(30:32):
But I did fall asleep for themiddle 30 minutes, I think. But then
I did re watch it later onthat evening and I rewatched it last
night. So anyway, off the bat,dude, what. What were your thoughts
on this one?
Yeah, I didn't watch itChristmas Day. I watched it on the
iplayer. I actually know.Well, I watched on the iplayer when

(30:54):
I got in, so I supposetechnically I did watch it on Christmas
Day, just not when it wasairing. And I did give it another
watch last week when we wereoriginally supposed to record before
I got ill. So I've given it acouple of watches. I found it. I
think on the one hand it'squite a nice Christmas special. It's
a very sort of easygoing easywatch with some really nice moments.

(31:17):
But on the other hand, it's abit of a mid episode. It's a bit.
It doesn't have a lot ofcontent. I didn't feel. It just feels
a bit filler, for want of abetter word. So I'm a little bit
conflicted, mate. So I don'tthink it's good or bad. It's just
an average. Quite nice. Youcould put it on episode of DOT two

(31:40):
and I think some people mightsay, well, that's what you want at
Christmas. You want just to.Something to just put on and have
a bit of fun. But I thinkthat's okay to an extent. But I feel
like if we're now settling forDoctor who just being good, okay,
I think that's a bit of ashame. I think our standards need
to be a bit higher. I justworry that Doctor who is sliding

(32:01):
into this quality control iswhere the level of okay is acceptable,
if that makes sense. So whilstI didn't think there was anything
particularly bad about it, Ithink we've had a lot worse Christmas
specials. And I thought it wasenjoyable. I just thought it was
very average on the same hand,if you know what I mean. So, yeah,

(32:26):
I enjoyed it. Did I think itwas great? No. Did I think it was
bad? No, it was just okay. AndI'm not sure I like Dr. Who being
just okay, if I'm honest. Butyeah, I'll dive more into my, you
know, more into stuff as we gointo it. There, you know, there are
things I thought worked reallywell. There were things that I felt

(32:47):
on a second watch reallydidn't add up. I started, you know,
like you do as Dr. Foul. Istarted questioning a lot of the
concept, which originally Ithought was really good. The more
I thought about it, I waslike, I don't know actually if that
really works. But anyway, I'llget into that as we go through it,
mate. But overall, I justthought it was an easy watch. Quite

(33:08):
enjoyable, but nothing special.
Huh. Okay.
And I didn't fall asleep, but,you know. Over to you.
You didn't fall asleep. Yeah,yeah. So my view on it is reasonably
similar to yours, dude. Ithink. I think it's one. In terms
of how it measures up toprevious Christmas or festive specials

(33:31):
for Doctor who. I don't thinkit's the worst one. No, I don't think
it's down there. So. It'sweird, isn't it? The Doctor who Christmas
special is a strange beast.
It is.
It's a strange old thing toget your head around. Because on
one hand, the Christmasspecial has the potential to be this

(33:56):
really cool, magical,wholesome, heartwarming, lovely story
to be told within the world ofDoctor who. And sometimes it does
get that right at times. Thereis. There's been a couple of moments
and I think for me, this cameat the end of this episode. I think
the last five minutes are justso gorgeous and heartwarming and

(34:21):
lovely feeling and stuff likethat. I was just wanting a bit more
feeling of that throughout theepisode. I felt like. And it didn't
feel Christmassy to me either.There was like little tiny moments
in there that were obviouslyvery festive from. From. What's the

(34:43):
best way to put it? From abiblical point of view, I guess,
or a poetic point of viewfrom. From histories in that respect.
But I didn't really get thatChristmassy vibe too much. Now, I'm
not saying that a Christmasspecial for Doctor who needs to have
like a bazillion Christmastrees and Santas and Christmas lights

(35:08):
and all that stuff. I'm notsaying that. And. And it has to be
like snowbound and stuff. I'mjust saying, you know, it doesn't
have that kind of. It didn'thave that sort of vibe to it. So
the reason why I fell asleepis because I was just knackered,
basically. I was. I didn'tsleep very well the previous couple
of nights, coming up toChristmas Day. So it wasn't the episode
that put me to sleep, it wasjust. I was feeling knackered and

(35:34):
yeah, I was just. Yeah, so Idid watch it that evening and last
night. So I'm up to speed on.On what happened and stuff, but,
yeah, overall, not the bestepisode of Doctor who. Not the best
Christmas special for me, butcertainly not. Not the worst. It's

(35:54):
kind of mid. Like you weresaying, not. There were some really,
really good bits to it, Ithink. I think Shooty was. Was great
in it. I. I felt like he had.There was something about his performance
that was like. Now that. Nowthat he's on his own and didn't have

(36:15):
Ruby with him, that kind ofaffected his. His. How he came across
as the Doctor a little bit. Hehad this. They've played on this
before. Remember back inTenants era when they played on this
thing where Martha had goneand in between Donna and they. They

(36:37):
really sort of hammed up thiswhole melancholy feeling that Tennant's
Doctor had and he was all sadand, you know, and. And all that
stuff. They. They didn't quitego that far. But they sort of hinted
at the fact that he was. Andthen he obviously was angry at himself
as well. You know the bitwhere they heard it in the trailer
where the Doctor's not givinghim a straight answer?

(37:00):
Yeah.
He's like, you know, in orderto keep the loop going throughout
the Time Hotel and this wholesort of bootstrap paradox thing with
the code for the briefcase andstuff, he obviously can't tell himself
all the details because theloop will be broken. He has to find
it out for himself. And hisonly answer is, you'll find out,

(37:20):
you'll find out. And then heloses it. And he's like, this is
why people leave you. Youknow, this is why you're alone and
all that stuff. So they. Theyplayed into that a little bit. And
because of that, I feel likewe saw some really good range from.
From shooty. Of course, we gotthe crying scene. There was bound
to be a scene, of course,where he cries and stuff. But I thought
he was really funny. I was a.He had a good performance in terms.

(37:43):
He was funny. A couple of sadmoments. Lost his temper a couple
of times, which is good. Sothere were some good things and.
A bit of range.
Yeah. Visually as well, theepisode looked kind of cool. They
went back to doing somephysical sets and. And all that stuff.
And so, yeah, it was. It hadsome good stuff in it. I just don't

(38:04):
think it's one that we'regoing to be talking about in any
great detail or depth over theyears, to come down the pub sort
of thing.
It's not what I'm gonna reachfor. But then again, a lot of the
Christmas specials aren't, tobe honest. Like you said, they're
a funny beast. There are.There's only a couple, really, that
I really enjoy watching overand over again. Like the Christmas

(38:24):
Evasion. I always forget thetitle of the one. The other one,
the one with Kylie. Quite likethat one.
Voyager, the Damned.
That's it, yeah. You know,there's a couple that I. I like to
stick on every now and again.Weirdly, a lot of people love Christmas
Carol, which is the one storywe haven't. We've left. We've got
left to review. It's the oneepisode, DOT two that we haven't

(38:45):
reviewed, and if things hadworked out over Christmas, we were
going to do that, but sadlythings got in the way, like illnesses
and stuff. So we will getaround to reviewing that one day
and I'm quite looking forwardto doing that because a lot of people
write that story and I've onlyever watched it once. Can you believe
that? I've never gone back andre watched it. So be interesting

(39:06):
when we finally get around tothat one to see what I actually think
of it. Because I don't reallyknow, to be honest. But yeah, this
one, it won't be one I reachfor. And bizarrely, mate, you know
me, I cannot stand a gap in myDOT two collection. I will always
pre order everything so that,you know, it doesn't matter if it's
Doctor who, Doctor, the Widow,the Wardrobe. I have to have it on
DVD so that there's no gap. Ihaven't. This is the first time I

(39:29):
haven't pre ordered the dvd,well, the Blu Ray, because I'm just
not bothered about owning it.And that speaks volumes from a, you
know, a collector or fan likemyself because I always buy stuff
even if, even if it's notgood. I know it's sad to say, but
that's, you know, that is whata collector is like. They, they cannot

(39:50):
have that gap. But I justthought, no, I'm not, not paying
full price for this becauseI'm just not bothered about owning
it. And again, it's not that Ireally don't like or anything, I'm
just not bothered about it. SoI will get it when it's in sale,
but that's very unusual forme, mate. I normally ha. You know,
the day it comes out, I haveto have it so I can post a picture
on Instagram, say, look, I'vegot the new Doctor special, it's

(40:13):
out on dvd. But I just can'tbring myself to pay money for it.
So I think that that speaksquite a lot about my thoughts on
it. But going back to some ofthe stuff that, you know, to do,
like the content, it, the, theconcept itself I thought was really
good. When I first watchedthis, I thought, I love this idea
of this hotel with all thesedifferent doors in that can lead

(40:35):
into different time zones.What a great concept. And I thought,
you know, one of the thingsI've always praised the mothball
for was he always comes upwith good ideas, I'll give him that.
He doesn't always know what todo with them, but he comes up with
great ideas and, and I thoughtthat was a really good concept. I
don't know if you spotted it,mate, but I didn't spot it on the
first watch. One of the doorsis to Mr. Ben's shop. You know, the

(40:59):
shop from Mr. Ben. Did you see that?
I did, yeah.
I totally Miss that the firstthing and blink and you'll miss it.
I thought, what a lovely thingto include because I love Mr. Ben.
But mate, I have to say, eventhe concept, when I watched on a
second watch, it does start tofall apart. Because if you've got
a hotel you can check into andgo to any time zone, like, you know,
the Daleks would love that.They've been trying to work out time

(41:21):
travel for years. You know,they'd love to check into the hotel
and just go into all thesedifferent time zones and, and manipulate
it and destroy things and, youknow, just as one example, or the
Master, for example, mightwant to check in there and, and use
those time zones to cause abit of trouble. And I'm not sure
if the concept actually worksbecause also what's the difference

(41:41):
between that and the tardis?It's. Why does the Doctor need to
go there? He's got the TARDISso he can already go to different
time zones and stuff. So whatstarted off as, I think being a really
cool concept, I think doesn'tquite hold up under the, the weight,
to be honest. It kind of fallsapart a little bit.
You weren't too fond of the,the con, like conceptually having

(42:03):
the, the hotel and stuff, notreally doing it for you.
Yeah, I mean, I, I do thinkit's a, I think it's a fun concept
for the special, but I'm justnot sure it holds up if you look
into it more than surfacelevel, if you know too deeply.
Gotcha. Yeah. Oh. I mean, it'svery Moffat, isn't it? Any, anyone

(42:25):
that's, that's watched throughthem, the, you know, especially the,
some of the, the middle MattSmith stuff.
Yeah.
Like the Pandorica stuff andall that. It's. Moffat loves a, a
good old timey wimey, sort ofborderline convoluted kind of thing,
you know? Yeah. So itdefinitely has that stamp of, of

(42:47):
Moffat on it and you do haveto keep up a little bit. It's, you
know, it's, it's not the mosttimey wimey ish thing we've seen
and head scratching thing, butI don't know, you do have to, you
do have to keep up with it alittle bit and also it's that the
whole concept of the TimeHotel is something that they've teased

(43:10):
as a bit of a spin offterritory as well.
All right. Yeah.
Yeah. So both Russell and, andSteve were interviewed. I can't remember
where it was for. It waseither a newspaper, I think it was
a newspaper and, and one ofthem joked and said, look, the Time
Hotel is such a wonderfulthing. There's so many opportunities

(43:31):
there to tell lots ofdifferent, you know, crazy stories
that we should do a spin offfor it, perhaps. I think they were
sort of half joking. But the,the concept of the Time Hotel is
definitely one that's, I thinkit, it writes, it puts writers into
a corner just as much as itopens up opportunities to, because

(43:55):
there's only, I think there'sonly so many ways you can write yourself
out of having somebodyconveniently show up to save the
day due to like a time loop orsomething. Right.
So, I mean, it's a nice idea,isn't it? And it's like anything
in Doctor who, you just don'tthink too much about it because if

(44:16):
you start thinking in, youknow, if you start looking too deep
into the concept, it does fallapart because, I mean, how does it
even work? Like if someonechecks in and goes to where was it
they went with the guys in thesnow in the Arctic and all that.
And so does someone just walkin and say, oh, by the way, I'm staying
in a hotel, so don't mind me.You know, it doesn't quite work if
you, if you look too far pastthe sort of initial concept, but

(44:40):
I guess, you know, thatapplies to a lot of things in Doctor
who. And I know Steven Moffatwould just say, look, just go with
it. And I think in this case,I think that's fine to just go with
it.
Yeah, you have to. Otherwiseit's like I said, you end up head
scratching and thinking, whatthe bloody hell? Just what. Why is
that person here now? And howis the Doctor here talking to himself

(45:00):
and stuff? And yeah, and theremight not be fans that are familiar
with those type of sort ofstory structures and tropes and stuff.
If you've never heard thephrase bootstrap.
Paradox before, then wherehave you been?
Yeah, well, not just that, butyou wouldn't, you wouldn't associate
that with the Doctor knowingthe code to the briefcase.

(45:22):
Yeah.
And then when you start to tryand figure out, well, how did, where
did the code come from in thefirst place? That's when your mind
starts to melt a little bit.And then Moffat. One thing I will
say about this in terms ofMoffat's writing was that he was
very brazen in his justadmittance of having this crazy timey

(45:42):
wimey stuff going on in twoareas, really. I'll come on to second
a bit later, but the first onewas this whole code for the briefcase
and that cool scene with theDoctor coming in and talking to herself
and being a bit cryptic. Andthen when he's quizzed on the code,
he's like, well, you know,the. He says something along the

(46:03):
lines of the universe camefrom nothing or didn't come from
nothing, but nobody everworries about that. So he kind of
does his thing where he'sbrazenly, like, just brushing it
under the carpet, like, yeah,it's a thing. And, yeah, it's probably
something we could get to thebottom of that. May collapse in continuity,
may not, who knows? But don'tworry about it. Just carry on watching

(46:27):
the Christmas special, people.It's just go with it, you'll be fine.
So I will say that aboutMoffat. He has a. He definitely grew
a set, if that's the rightphrase. And. And instead of having
this. This massive overhangand this overlap where you get to
the end of the episode and youthink, bloody hell, Moff. Like, I

(46:48):
still have no idea what'sgoing on. The difference with this
one is that a lot of peoplemight not have still had a clue what's
going on, but his attitudewas, well, I don't really care. Just
go with it and have fun anddon't worry about it too much. So,
yeah, it's the whole timehotel thing, dude, as a concept,
was what was cool. It is verycool. But I think you have to be

(47:12):
careful with that stuff,because otherwise I can see it now.
If they brought that timeHotel back either as a spin off or
they reintroduce it as for afuture Doctor in whatever season,
there'll be many, manyreviewers who are like, yeah, they
have literally wrotethemselves into a corner with this
one. And it's all tooconvenient to push either the reset

(47:35):
button or have somebody comeback from the future to save the
past and all that stuff again.
And yeah, yeah, I thinkthey've got away with it for this
episode. I think, you know,without going under too much scrutiny,
you can get away with thattime hotel. But I think if they were
to keep going back to it, youwould. You're only a can of worms.
I think a lot of people havesaid there's a lot of Moffat tropes

(47:57):
in this episode, which thereare. There's a lot of recycled ideas.
Some people said it's a bit ofa sort of moffic greatest hits, which
I. I sort of see to a certainextent, but it didn't feel stale
to me. I mean, I could see alot of Moffatisms coming in, like
you said, like the Doctorknowing the code, but he has to wait
to get the code from hisfuture self and all. You know, there's

(48:18):
a lot of stuff that's beendone before, but as I said, I think.
I think he got away with it inthis episode. I didn't sit there
sort of rolling my eyes or anything.
Yeah. I think the only time Idid that a little bit was when he
comes to the realization thathe has to wait an entire year at
the hotel for the next thingto come around, where, you know,

(48:43):
when it. When we got to thatpoint, I was like, we're obviously
going to have a montage orwhatever with the. With his new friend,
etc. You know?
Yeah. Which actually was. Wasweird because for me, that was one
of the nicer part of theepisodes. I actually really liked
all that stuff between him andAnita. Was it the girl in the hotel

(49:07):
who actually served as abetter sort of companion to the Doctor,
for want of a better word,than Joy did, who got completely
lost in this episode? I mean,Nicola got. How'd you say it?
Nicola Coughlin.
Coughlin, that's the one. Wascompletely wasted as a guest star.
I mean, I'd forget she waseven in it, to be honest. She got

(49:28):
nothing to do. Was sort ofwritten out for the most part, the
episode. But Anita, I thought,was really nice and there was a real.
Some real nice chemistrybetween the two of them. Some lovely
scenes of them just getting toknow each other. And again, a bit
of a Moffat thing. He's verysentimental, Moffat, but I don't
mind it. You know, there wasthis whole thing about the Doctor
not having any chairs in thetardis. So, you know, there's this

(49:49):
thing of actually sitting downand talking and getting to know someone.
And I liked all that. But Iwas a little bit conflicted because
I was also feeling like thisfeels like it's just bridging the
gap to fill 10 minutes. Itdoes feel like filler. Like we are
just wasting time to get tothe point where the Doctor knows
the code. And so I don't know.Do you know what I mean? It felt

(50:09):
like it was filler. It wasjust filling 10 minutes. It didn't
add anything to the story, butit was really nice filler. And probably
the bit of the episode I likethe most, you know, seeing the Doctor
with all his TARDISmemorabilia lined up, I mean, some
people might not like that.They might have thought that was
a bit too on the nose, butpersonally, I loved it. I was like

(50:29):
oh, I've got that littleTardis and TARDIS mints, mate. They
are now canon. They were onthat shelf. I noticed the old TARDIS
mints, the mint tin. So Ilike, I liked all that stuff in the
middle, but I can't help butfeel it was just fill in 10 minutes
of air time to sort of carryon the plot, if you like.
Yeah, no, I agree with you,dude. Yeah, I rolled my eyes because

(50:52):
I was like, oh, okay. I, I, Ithought they're not just going to
snap their fingers and a yearis going to be over and, and the,
the doorway will open itselfagain. But I thought, yeah, we're
going to have a, we're goingto have a montage here where the
Doctor makes great friendswith, with Anita. Yeah. And her character

(51:13):
name, coincidentally, hersurname's Ben with two ends. Oh,
is it Anita Ben? Yeah. SoMoffat clearly had a love for that
old, that old cartoon, Mr.Ben. Yeah, which is obviously a clear
inspiration. Right. Because inthat cartoon, younger listeners will
have no idea about this, butthere was a, a very old cartoon back

(51:35):
in the day. I think it was theseventies. Yeah, must have been Mr.
Ben. Didn't he have like atime travel ago? He went into a shop
door or a hotel door orsomething like that.
It was brilliant, mate.
And he was able to time travel.
Yeah, that's it. He goes tosee the shopkeeper who magically
appears and he tries on acostume and every week it's a different

(51:57):
costume and when he pulls thecurtain back, having put it on, whatever
the costume is, it kind ofrelates to, he sort of goes to different
time zones. So, yeah, maybethat's the Moffat saying. Yeah, I've
ripped off this idea a littlebit, but I'm gonna put this little
Easter egg in just to saythanks. I don't know. But yeah, it
was a very sweet Easter egg, Ihave to say.
It was cool.

(52:18):
Yeah.
Yeah. And yeah. So there wasany other sort of nice moments or
not so nice moments?
Well, yeah, I mean, there weresome very, as I said, Moffat like
sentimentality and I don'tmind a bit of that as long as it's
not too, too much. Did I spota hobbit door in one of the hotel

(52:39):
rooms, mate? Because you're abig Hobbit fan. Was one of those
the Hobbit door?
I don't think it was. I think no.
Oh, I'm sure there was.
It could, I think it's, youknow, it's quite similar to a hobbit
hole.
All right. I thought maybethey couldn't quite get away with
the copyright. Then I thoughtI spotted one bit I thought you would

(52:59):
know, but nice moments. Yeah,I mean, there were. There were nice
moments scattered throughoutthe episode. I. I mean, I. I can't
really think of any sort. Thisis what I mean, nothing. This is
what happened after Ifinished. Watch the episode, mate,
is. I thought I kind ofenjoyed that. But if you were to
ask me, you know, about it,like, it. There was nothing that

(53:20):
really stayed with me, if youknow what I mean. But is there anything
particular that stood out toyou then, in terms of nice moments?
The ending, mate. The. So,yeah, a nice moment was some of the
scenes that. That he had withTrev. So the character. Character,

(53:43):
Trev. What's his surname? Trev Simpson.
Trev. That guy, yeah.
Because he's a really coolcharacter. Anyone that's seen the.
Joel Fry?
Joel Fry, yeah. Anyone that'sseen the comedy show called Plebs,
which is a hilarious program,he's in that. He plays a character
called Stylax in that and he'sreally funny. So if anyone's seen

(54:06):
that, you'll relate to hiskind of demeanor and. And that sort
of thing is quite similar. SoI thought that was really nice, like
the way that he's meant to be,you know, policing what's going on
in the hotel. But the Doctorjust ends up talking him round and
sort of recruits him as hissort of undercover agent sort of

(54:26):
thing. So it wasn't a niceending for him, you thought? Was
an ending sort of midwaythrough the episode after he loses
the briefcase and, you know,turns into stardust or whatever.
But. And then he has a bit ofa comeback at the end. So I thought
those scenes were really nicewith him. And I like the scenes in
the beginning with Anita, butI thought the ending was such a lovely.

(54:49):
It's just wholesome feel good.And Murray Gold's music was beautiful.
That last five minutes reallyplayed on, pulling the heartstrings
and stuff and.
You mean the stuff with thestar and all that?
The star, yeah. You know,because he's been so desperate to
try and save Joy, you know,he's gone through this whole process
of trying to figure out thevillain guards, you know, thing with

(55:13):
the star and why they're doingthis and stuff. And then he's gone
through the process of. Oh,that was the other thing as well.
That was very. Moffat bringingback the. The Valengard stuff and.
Yeah, and all that.
But when he was trying to saveJoy and he. And he. He was Quite
nasty to her for a littlewhile. He only did it so she could
break sort of the psychicconnection, I guess, with. With the

(55:38):
briefcase and the star andeverything. And she actually comes
round and she's like, youknow, everything you said was true
and. And all that. And thenshe's like, don't worry. I'm not.
I'm not worried about dying.I'm sacrificing myself so that I
can save everybody. And sothat was all, you know, it was all,
you know, very. Like I said atthe beginning, it didn't feel very
Christmassy, but this lastfive minutes felt very, very nice

(56:00):
and stuff like that.
So how did you feel then aboutthe COVID stuff? Because that obviously
played into the ending withher mum, who. And I didn't quite
understand why her mumdissolved into the star. I don't
know. But. But how did youfeel about. A lot of people feel
like the COVID storyline waskind of shoehorned in there, like,
oh, here we go, here's anothermessage, blah, blah, blah. But how

(56:24):
did you feel? Do you think itwas necessary? A lot of people said
it didn't need to be in there.There was a line about I had to stick
by the rules, my mum diedalone. And there was a message in
there, for want of a betterword. How do you think it was handled?
And. And how do you feel aboutthat in terms of the ending, which,
you know, you say you likedthe ending, but did that play into
it? Do you think that was agood part of it, or.

(56:51):
It's hard to say what themotive was for that, I think, because
I think if you took that outof the story, I think the story would
still be fine. You couldstill. You could still have this
narrative of her mum dying andpassing away, and for whatever reason
she was not there at the time,and. And stuff like that. So I think
the COVID introduction was. Ithink it's important to. To have

(57:16):
it in there because ithighlights a real. I was about to
swear then, dude.
Oh, steady. We're a family podcast.
Exactly. Yeah. So I think ithighlights a very beepy moment in
time, which I think needs tobe. Not needs to be, but I think.
It'S not to be forgotten.

(57:36):
Not to be forgotten. Yeah. Andobviously a fictional drama like
Doctor who is not the placefor sort of, you know, proper archive
stuff or anything like that,but I think it's a little sort of
stick in the sand acrossDoctor who's modern era about when
certain things happened in thereal world. So. And I think it did
also. It did also add to theemotional side of things in that

(58:02):
last closing act of the storyas well. I think it's only because
I think it was so relatable toa lot of people watching it. So I
think that made you feel evenmore of an emotional connection to
Joyce as a character, becauseso many of us, if you were lucky
enough not to be impacted bysomebody around that time, then great.

(58:25):
But I think for a lot of uswho did lose family members and friends
at that point, it kind ofbrought it home that, like, yes,
we. We understand why she wasso sad about all that and so regretful
and all that stuff. And thenwhen her mum. I mean, that was kind
of weird. That was a weirdMoffat thing at the end, when Joy

(58:46):
absorbed the star and becamethe star and. Yeah, and then her
mum, it's. It was like. It waslike she was able to just pick somebody
and make them part of the staras well, you know, and all that.
So that was a bit weird. Butat the same time, it was a. A lovely
kind of reunion, I guess. Andher mum, it was cool that her mum
looked up in the sky, saw thatthe star was Joy, immediately noticed

(59:10):
it was her daughter and stufflike that. So, yeah, it was a lovely,
you know, little. Littlemoment and stuff, but the COVID part
specifically, I think, I don'thate it. I don't wish it wasn't there.
I just. I feel like the storycould have equally been as emotional
and stuff without it. But,yeah, what do you. What about you?
Yeah, I kind of agree, mate. Ithink. I think that I understand

(59:34):
why people said it maybe was alittle insensitive, maybe a little
bit too soon, for want of abetter phrase. But I do think it
added a more emotional punchfor me, like you said, because it
is something a lot of peoplecan relate to. So I'd like to feel
like it didn't upset anybody.And I think, although it is maybe,

(59:54):
you know, it was put in thereto have a dig at the government,
I do think it is something weshouldn't forget. So I. I didn't
really have a problem with itbeing in there, to be honest, because
I felt like, you know, this issomething that happened. A lot of
people did die on their ownbecause of what, you know, the government
restrictions. So although itmay have been, you know, for one
of a better phrase, a messagebeing put into the end of the episode,

(01:00:19):
personally, I didn't mind itbecause I thought it's an important
message, to be fair, and itdid play into the whole storyline,
it didn't feel. To me anyway,it didn't feel shoehorned in. You
know, I think the problem isnowadays that Doctor who is. We're
so quick to sort of pick upon, you know, all these different

(01:00:41):
sort of messages that arebeing put into the storylines that
we, we sort of almost jump onit straight away. Oh yeah, yeah.
They've had to go at thegovernment. Of course, they couldn't
go an episode without beingthing and I don't, I think this was
handled quite well personally,but I can see why some people might
have thought it was a littleinsensitive, but for me it just had.
It just gave the NC more of anemotional impact and it is something

(01:01:04):
that actually happened to alot of people. So, yeah, I, I felt,
I felt it kind of added to it.But also, like you said, it wouldn't
have made any difference if ithadn't have been included. It still
would have been a nice wrapup. But again, it did open a lot
of questions. I was like, soif Joy's mum has been absorbed in.
Back in. So that's supposed tobe back in 2020, was it? And then.

(01:01:29):
But so she wouldn't have beenthere in the hospital for her to
know that she had died. And itagain is a bit of a. You could start
going and you know, it doesopen up another can of worms. But
again we won't, you know,we'll, we'll just go with it again.
But you know, I mean it did,it did open up a few problems, but.
Yeah.
God.

(01:01:49):
But yeah, I don't think it's.I don't think, I don't think it was
too sledgehammered in thewhole covert thing. Personally, I
think it's. It kind of fittedin with the story.
Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Wasn't toobad. And yeah. What's the, what would
you say is you're sort of notso sort of pleasant view on, on any

(01:02:11):
of it then, is there, Isthere. Is it just the overall vibe
of the story or is thereanything in particular that makes
you think, oh, this is just a,a mid story, not one I'll reach for
again anytime soon?
Well, no, as I said, it's. Thething with it is, is I did find it
enjoyable. It's just. Italmost feels like a mid series episode.

(01:02:32):
You know, it just felt tooaverage like for a special. I think
when, you know, when I talkedabout the Christmas specials that
I like to revisit, likeChristmas Invasion, you think of
like the killer ChristmasSantas or you Think of the TARDIS
flying next to the. The taxicab with Donna in it, with the Doctor
leaning out. You know, therewere such epic moments. Just can't

(01:02:53):
think of. And like, you justasked me, you know, about moments.
I can't think of any sort ofepic moment or. Or anything that
really sort of. Ah. That bitwhen, you know. So it was just a.
Just a very sort of okayepisode, really, so that I don't
really have a problem with it.Just don't really. It just won't
be one that I. It's not. Justnot very memorable.

(01:03:15):
Yeah. I raise you. Dude, ourrager. Okay, shall we talk about
some characters then? See howwe got on with those. So there was
a few supporting actors thatpopped up a couple of times. We had
Sylvia Trench. She was thelady on the Orient Express.
Oh, yeah.

(01:03:35):
Who was reading Murder on theOrient Express, which is a. Oh, I
didn't even clock that. Funlittle thing. Yeah, that was cool.
And then we had the guys whowere up on Everest. So that would
have been Edmund Hillary andTenzing Norgay. Those two were, again,
actual people. They were thefirst people to summit Everest. So

(01:03:57):
the thing I liked about the.Oh, and then we had the old couple
in, like, the. The Blitz. TheWorld War II.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Sort of thing. That was. Ithink that was Mr. Single.
Mr. Single.
I think so. I think. Yeah.And. And his wife. And what was cool
about these side characters isthat they got the memo in terms of
looking completely perplexedand weirded out by the Doctor just

(01:04:20):
randomly turning up out theblue and. And especially towards
the end with Sylvia Trench,where the Doctor turns up back on
the train, but then he, youknow, has the whole grappling hook
and the rope to, you know,break into the. Into the old stone
casing to get the briefcaseand stuff like that. So those guys

(01:04:40):
were quite cool because they.They understood that their main objective
was to be like. The expressionon their face to be like, what the
bloody hell's going on? Like,who's this person? What's going on?
So that was kind of. They werekind of cool.
Yeah, yeah. The supportinglittle. Like you said, the background
characters are all fairlygood. I thought it's weird just you
mentioning that. That scene ofhim on the train roof with the rope.

(01:05:02):
I can already hear the musicin my head. As soon as you said it,
I'm like, yeah, I could hearthe 15th Doctor theme kicking. But,
yeah, no side character, mate.Yeah, they're all pretty good. Like
I said, they got the memo.
They got the memo, yeah. Okay.And what about Anita, Ben? We've
mentioned her briefly already,but she was. She was the hotel manager

(01:05:23):
who. Who befriends the Doctor,and they have a whale of a time just
being ordinary for a year. Youknow, he takes up residency in the
hotel, works, doing odd jobsand fixing things and. And helping
out and all that stuff. Andit's quite emotional when they have
to part company at the endbecause she tears up, because she's.

(01:05:45):
I'm not sure if there's anylove interest there, but she's certainly
grown fond of him, you cantell that. And. But then she tries
to. She tries to play off atthe end to sort of emotionally protect
herself, and she's like, youknow, I always knew that you were
gonna go, you know, I knewthat this wasn't permanent, all the

(01:06:05):
rest of it, but I think alittle part of her wants it to be
more longer term than. Than.Than a year sort of thing, and him
buggering off, so. But thatwas kind of cool. She was, like,
you mentioned, I think youmentioned earlier, she was almost
a decent companion, more sothan. Than Joy's character, in a
way, so. But she was. Ithought she was good. She was played

(01:06:26):
by Steph Diwali. She was. Shewas good, mate.
I thought she was one of thehighlights of the episode, actually.
And it's weird because shesort of came out of nowhere, didn't
she? I just thought she wasgoing to be like the hotel receptionist,
you know, I didn't expect herto play such a form of a better phrase,
emotional part, you know, herrelationship and friendship with
the Doctor really blossomed inthose 10 minutes that they were sort

(01:06:49):
of together. 10 minutes ofscreen time. I mean, not. Sorry,
it's a whole year in theiruniverse. But no, I thought she was
really good and I. I don'trecognize this actor, Steph De Whaley.
I don't know. She's been inother things, but she. Yeah, she
gave a very naturalperformance. She had very good chemistry
with Shooty, I thought, andthey had some really lovely scenes

(01:07:12):
together. And I've justthought of a nice moment, actually,
was when she. When she went tohand the Doctor a plunger and he
said. When he was doing somemaintenance and he said something
like, is that thing armed? Youknow, I thought that was a fun moment.
So those two worked reallywell together. So she was a very
pleasant surprise for me. Iwasn't expecting this character to.

(01:07:35):
To sort of be the highlight orone of the highlights of the episode.
I thought. I thought sheworked really well with shooting.
I'd be. I'd be very happy tosee her pop up again, you know, if
the Doctor went back, youknow, to say hello. Although maybe
he feels it's better off left.But, yeah, she was a good character
and the. And the actor did areally good job. I thought of playing

(01:07:58):
what initially felt like quitea sort of stern, you know, hotel
manager to actually showingthis softer side and. And, you know,
it was a. Almost like a fullyrounded character in a very short
space of time, which is notalways that easy to do. So. Yeah,
she was really good.
She was good. Yeah, she wasgood. And that was a really cool

(01:08:20):
part of the episode as well. Ithink it was like 10 minutes long,
that whole middle bit, if youlike, where he's like Mr. Joe Public
Normal, which is kind of cool.And I agree with you. I love all
the little, little TARDIScollectibles that he had on there.
Yeah.
On the shelf that. They werevery cool.
Did you like the mop on thestairs? A lot of people didn't like
that. I didn't mind. Peoplewere like, oh, that was just so silly,

(01:08:43):
the mop cleaning.
So it's all right, it's aChristmas special.
Yeah. You know, if you'regoing to get hung up on that, you're
never going to get throughDoctor who.
Exactly. Yeah. Okie dokie.What did you think, too? So the guy
I mentioned earlier, TrevSimpkins, played by Joel Fry, he
was a fun little character andit was one of those times where you

(01:09:06):
really actually felt for aside character at the time, because,
you know, when he. He gets thebriefcase, so he gets taken over
by the Starseed and then heloses it quite early on, it gets
transferred over to. To theSilurian hotel manager played by

(01:09:29):
Jonathan Aris. And we all knowthat he's going to die now because
that's. That's just the thing.But it wasn't the fact that he died
that was heartbreaking. It wasthe fact that he worded it in a way
that was like, you know, Isaid I wouldn't let him down, you
know, and here I am lettingyou down sort of thing. And you thought,
oh, mate, you know, it was,you know, it wasn't really your fault
sort of thing. And, yeah, so,yeah, he was a cool little character.

(01:09:53):
And then he had a bit of acome back and save the day moment
where he realized that the,the, the psychic graft or whatever
it was that sort of enabledhim to. To speak to somebody the
Doctor had manipulated thatearlier on with the sonic screwdriver.
So he had a link to the Doctorand the Sonic and stuff. And he came
back and he was like, look, Ican pinpoint the. I can pinpoint

(01:10:18):
the. The star brief, you know,star seed in a briefcase and helps
him out. So he had a bit of acomeback, but he was a fun little
character.
Yeah, he's a fun character andI recognize him from Plebs as well.
And he does off. He suits thissort of character, doesn't he? Plays
it well. And I'm glad hepopped back up. I. I wasn't expecting
him and I felt like I shouldhave said that coming. But, yeah,

(01:10:40):
when he popped back up, I waslike, oh, it's Trev. So, yeah, he
was good. I thought Joel Frydid. I think he was well cast as
that character. It's what hedoes best, that sort of character.
Yeah, defo. Okay. And then wehad a very small, Very, very small
cameo, I guess, from MillieGibson as well.

(01:11:02):
Yeah, golly, I nearly forgot. Yeah.
At the end, and gets a phonecall from her mum. We assume it's
her. It's her real life mumthat she gets a phone call from.
So, yeah, it's. Yeah, that waskind of cool, but just blink and
you miss it sort of thing. Ithink it was just there just for
some sort of continuity andmomentum through to season two.

(01:11:24):
A reminder. It's like, oh,don't forget about Millie. Yeah,
yeah, because she was justkind of staring out of the window
at the start. It was a bit ofan odd little cameo, really. I mean,
the Doctor kept staring at thephone and. And Anita was like, well,
you know who you. Who is ityou're wanting to phone? And I was
thinking, well, why can't hephone her? They didn't. It's not
like they. It's not like theyhad a big row. Like, he could phone

(01:11:45):
her and say, hey, Rubes, how'sit going? What are you up to? Oh,
I'm stuck on blooming Earth.Yeah. You know, So I didn't quite
get, you know, why he can't goand. Am I forgetting something? Am
I forgetting a plot point thathe can't?
No, I don't think so.
I think. I know, I know sheleft crying and perhaps it wasn't
the best way to, you know, toleave her, but. But anyway, yeah,

(01:12:07):
it was nice to see Millie popup, mate. And actually, I've just
reminded myself of anotherthing that a lot of people have been
saying about, you know, andthis is the whole issue with. I Think.
But the bioregeneration is.The Doctor is stuck on Earth. You
know, he's got a blooming.He's got another TARDIS just around
the corner. Why doesn't he goand see old 14? Go and have a. You
know, go and see him sat inhis garden with Donna. Oh, by the

(01:12:29):
way, I've just, you know, youknow, this whole thing of having
14 stuck on Earth as well haskind of been glazed over and does
again, open another big can ofworms, doesn't it? So the tenant
Doctor. So, yeah, again, himbeing stuck on Earth doesn't quite
add up. If you think therewere quite probably quite a lot of
ways he could have gone if hewanted to. But then I, I'm. I guess

(01:12:52):
I would justify that by sayingno, he knows he needs to stay there
because it's probably the onlyway he'll work out the code to be
able to tell himself the codeor whatever. I'm sure you could find
a reason for it. But havingthis whole 14th doctor still out
there stuck on Earth is. Is alittle bit problematic, really, isn't
it?
It could be. It could beproblematic, but at the end of the

(01:13:12):
day, there was no reason for.So the 14th doctor, that's just chilling
with the Nobles and Chillingand what stuff. There's no reason
to suggest that he's evenaware of. Of what's going on, because
it's not like a giant alienspaceship is hovering over London
and is threatening to dostuff, you know, with all that. So

(01:13:38):
I don't know, there's. Yes, onone hand, that Doctor being around
is like, well, but then yourun into the problem of. We have,
with lots of other franchises,the. Probably the most popular one
is the Marvel franchise,right, where you have a particular
character on Earth that'sdoing stuff in a series. It could

(01:14:00):
be Hawkeye, could be, youknow, Daredevil, could be any of
those things where it gets tothe point where, you know, New York
City is under threat or theworld's under threat, you could then
argue, well, where are all the Avengers?
Yeah, I get it, yeah.
You know, all the Avengers arehere, ready to save the day, yet
none of them are here to. Todo anything. So, you know, it's that

(01:14:24):
storytelling thing where youcan't write everything for everyone
all the time. You know, therehas to come a point where. And I.
I stand by that. I think, youknow, the 14th doctor probably just
wasn't aware of because theDoctor felt to me like shooty just
stayed in the hotel, like 99of the time. Yeah, throughout this

(01:14:48):
year of him chilling around.So, you know, there's no reason why
their paths should cross oranything like that.
So, I don't know, you've justreminded me another of a nice line,
actually, you said, about himbeing stuck in the room. I did like
it where the Doctor was, wasdescribing that sad, lonely room
that Joy, you know, had bookedinto. And she said, but you spent
a whole year there. Like, Iloved how she turned that round on

(01:15:11):
him. And he sort of stoppedand thought, oh, yeah, you know,
like, it was a sad only room.But I made it, you know, a warm place
to be. And I thought that wasa nice way of turning that.
That.
That sort of situation roundand making the Doctor realize something
that he hadn't thought of.
Yeah, that was cool. Yeah.Okay, so that was going back to Millie

(01:15:34):
Gibson. That was her verysmall Ruby cameo for Ruby. So Nicola
Coughlin then. Cufflin.Coughlin. I'm sure I'm butchering
now. I'm so sorry.
I think you got it right thefirst time and then I got it wrong
and now. Now. Now I've gotthat stuck in your head, I think.
Yeah. So Nicola Coughlin thenplaying Joy some. I think you mentioned

(01:15:55):
it earlier, and I think a lotof people have said this, is that
she was potentially wasted alittle bit as a character. Yeah,
I think you're. Your mind'sthere, isn't it?
Yeah, pretty much, mate. Imean, there was very little buzz
leading up to this Christmasspecial. Let's be honest. Fandom
were clutching at straws. Butone of the things that people did

(01:16:19):
seem excited about was NicolaCoughlan. Coughlan Scott's our name.
I'm just gonna call herNicola. Okay. I'm just gonna call
her Joy, actually. So one ofthe things I picked up on social
media leading up to thespecial was that was the only thing
people seem to be genuinelyexcited about. She's obviously very
popular in other shows. Theymust be shows I don't watch, because

(01:16:41):
I wasn't. I'm not really awareof her, but I was aware there was
a bus for her to be in Doctorwho, so those people must have been
very disappointed because shewas hardly in it. And B, she got
very little to do. And I thinkyou could be forgiven for forgetting
she was even in it, really.It's only really the end bit with

(01:17:02):
the star and that where sheactually gets it becomes part of
the sort of plot part of themain story. So I feel sorry for the.
I feel sorry for the actorNicola for sort of being Dealt a
bad hand, really. But I alsofeel sorry for those people that
couldn't wait to see a. Ithink, you know, they thought there
was going to be lots ofadventure with her and the Doctor,
and there was none of that. Soshe. Yeah, just wasted, in my opinion.

(01:17:25):
Absolutely wasted. I'd forgetshe was even in it if it wasn't for
the ending. Not nothing abouther performance, by the way. I must
just quickly add that in. She.She was fine. I liked her, you know,
her performance with what shewas given. So it's no reflection
on her as an actor, just. Justthe material she was given or not

(01:17:47):
given or not given.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. Iagree, dude. I think you're right.
As a. As a performance, she'svery. She's very nice, very sweet,
you know, very, very likable.You know, there was no kind of weird
ulterior motive for acharacter. She just happened to be

(01:18:10):
destined for this, you know,thing that the Doctor tries to help
out. And it kind of goes backto like an early sort of Russell
T. Kind of thing that he usedto play on back in the day where
he. He's. There was a coupleof stories where he was basically
like, look, the Doctor can't.Can't always do. He can't always

(01:18:32):
save a particular person, butthere are times where he's just like
that. Not. Not the Doctorspecifically causing this, but the
story ends up with justeverybody being saved. Yeah, you
know, he did this with. Whatwas it? The Doctor dances, was it?
Yeah, Empty child Doctor dances.
Yeah. He even had Eccleston'sDoctor, like, shout it out, doesn't

(01:18:54):
he? At the very end, he'slike, not today, Rose. Everybody
lives. You know, So I thinkthey played into this a little bit
where the Doctor couldn't saveJoy, specifically her, but then he
comes to the realization thatshe's cool with that, you know, and
a bit like, even goes back to.I mean, as you talk about this more,
it's clear that they reallydid pull on threads from other stories

(01:19:18):
and other ideas from that.Because you mentioned the Voyagers
are Damned earlier. At the endof that episode, Kylie's character
sacrifices herself and sheends up becoming atoms and particles
and all that sort of thing. Soit's very similar thing where the
Doctor, at first glance andearly on is like, I need to save
this person, as he naturallydoes, or they naturally do. And then

(01:19:41):
it transpires that sometimes,you know, people are happy to sacrifice
for the greater good. And theDoctor comes to that realization
along with her, and it's all,you know, a very nice sort of happy
ending. So her performanceleans into that. Quite nice. She's
very likable, you know, very,very sweet. Just not that much screen
time. I mean, we're missingout a very big scene that we haven't

(01:20:03):
spoken about with the T. Rex and.
Oh, yeah, you forgot aboutthat as well.
That was kind of cool. Theeffects on that were pretty good
and. And all that. And thatwas the scene just after he had been
quite nasty to her, but heonly did it to break the link and.
And all that stuff. And. Andthat was good. So she's in it, you
know, the beginning, a coupleof bits, and then at the very end,

(01:20:26):
obviously. But, yeah, thescreen time didn't really. I felt
like she should have been init maybe a tad more, you know, maybe.
Yeah, maybe I was justexpecting her to be in it more because
there's been, you know, somuch publicity around her being in
it. I mean, she becomes thestar of Bethlehem, which is, you
know, quite something. A lotof people said they saw that coming

(01:20:48):
a mile off. I, again, Ididn't. Didn't, but I perhaps should
have. It did seem obvious oncewe got to the end, but. Did you see
that? Did you. Did you getabout halfway through the episode
thing? I know she's gonna be astar and I know exactly which one.
I did not. No, I didn't. Ididn't get that. No.
Good. I'm glad it wasn't justme then. A lot of people were like,
yeah, yeah, saw it coming amile off, mate. And I'm like, oh,

(01:21:11):
really?
Okay. No, I didn't. Did notsee that coming. It was. It was.
I think that was also thatlast bit where. Because, you know,
throughout the. The beginningpart of the story, it said, you know,
London, 1940, whatever. And itgoes through these different scenarios

(01:21:32):
at the end where it saidBethlehem 0001. I thought that was
kind of cool. And the Doctorlooking down and seeing Bethlehem.
And it turns out that, youknow, Joy was viewed as the Star
of David, I guess, guided allthe wise men and shepherds everything
to Jesus and stuff like that.So potentially, I think that had

(01:21:55):
a quite a controversial riskto it, you know, because anytime
that you see, you know, sortof heavy religious stuff being used
in the show or anything likethat or anything, just anything like
that, you do get a pocket offandom that feels like they're being
preached upon a little bit, orit's just in on the nose, too much

(01:22:16):
of a message, you know, thatsort of thing, but I think in this
case, I think it's coolbecause, you know, it all kind of.
It's a little bit like thesnake eating its own tail, but, you
know, joy being, becoming thestar is what led the. The wise men
to Jesus and that kicking offthat whole story. And that's good

(01:22:37):
in itself, so that's good.And. And all this stuff you could
probably read into a lot ofthis, you know, on a. On a deeper
level, but I think it was okay.
Yeah, it's open tointerpretation, which is, I think,
how it should be.
Yeah. And actually it doeslink back as well a little bit more
to the Voyage of the Damned,because the. The tenth Doctor in

(01:22:58):
that says to Kylie's characterwhat her character name is.
Astrid.
Astrid, yeah. He says toAstrid that he got the last room
at the inn in Bethlehem.
Oh, right.
Yeah. So there's. That's whatI mean. Like, moth just draws on
all these little nuggets of.Of things from previous stories and
stuff.
So he does.
Yeah. Anyway, sorry, that was.Yeah, so I think we agree that Nicola,

(01:23:23):
it was a. It was a goodperformance, but just not in it as
much as we expected or thoughtshe was underused.
Yeah.
Yes. And then lastly, shooty.Shooty Gatwa. 15th Doctor. Just very
short and sweet for me. Ithought he had a crack in one thing.
I will say he. I thought hehad a really, really good performance

(01:23:44):
in this one, dude. I thinkthere was a couple of times where
I was like, yeah, that's kindof typical stuff we've seen all season
long with him crying and stufflike that. But I think we just have
to accept the fact that that'sthe way that Russell's written this
Doctor and the way that.Shoot, he's leaned into this character
a bit where he does wear hisheart on his sleeve a lot, you know,

(01:24:05):
and does, you know, getemotion, you know, quite a lot and
stuff like that. So there wasa little bit of. That was like eye
rolling a bit like, here wego, you know, Doctor's gonna cry
again and all that. But. Butsome of the bants with. With Trev
and the emotional stuff andthen the angry stuff at himself and
all that lot. Some really goodrange from him, I thought. I really
enjoyed his performance inthis one.

(01:24:25):
Yes, mate, I did as well. Ithink Shooty was, Was, Was. Was fantastic
in this episode, actually. AndI think. I think the. Moffat writes
the Doctor better than rtd,actually. I think the Mothball's
better at coming up with thesort of quirky little stuff. And,
you know, and the quirkyideas. I love to shoot you, for example,
being in a dressing gown, likeArthur Dent, you know, from Hitchhikers,

(01:24:49):
and just little things likethat. And the opening scene, you
know, where the shooty. Andthis again, is a very. Almost like
11th doctor. It's a veryMoffat thing to do, to write is when,
you know, he was like, whatdid I miss? I saw something. And
he starts getting dressed. Whyam I getting dressed for? You know,
he's like talking to himself.And, you know, again, it's just this
very doctory thing to do, thissort of quirky characteristic, if

(01:25:13):
you like, which I think Moffatwrites very well when he's writing
any Doctor. So I. Yeah, Ithought she was great in it, mate.
I thought he had, like yousaid, good range. I could do without
the crying, but again, thatcould have been forgiven if we hadn't
had so many other episodeswhere he was crying. I would have
had no problem with himgetting upset in this one if we hadn't

(01:25:35):
seen it, you know, othertimes. But like you said, we're just
gonna have to accept this isa. A more emotional Doctor. So that.
That's just how it is. But,yeah, shooty, mate. Good in it. Yeah,
I just thought he. I wouldn'tsay carried the episode, but he certainly
made it, you know, an in. Veryenjoyable watch because of his performance.

(01:25:57):
Yeah.
Yes, agreed. Again, dude,agreed. All right, so is there anything
else you want to mention? I'vejust. Very quickly, I wasn't too
blown away in the first halfof this episode with Murray's music,
but, mate, the. From themiddle part onwards to the end, some

(01:26:19):
really good stuff from him.Not quite the big bombastic themes
of old from when he was in itbefore, but especially those last
five minutes. Minutes. Thatbeautiful music there. Absolutely
gorgeous. Really emotionalmusic. And. Yeah, so I really enjoyed
Murray's music for the mostpart, especially in the last half,
but is there anything else youwant to mention?

(01:26:39):
No, I agree with you about themusic. I thought Murray was. Yeah,
doing what Murray does best.No, I haven't got anything else in
my notes, apart from somereason I've written mavity at the
bottom of the page. I guess wemust have heard that mentioned again.
I can't remember where, butI've written it down, so we must
have done. No, I've gotanything else to say, mate. I don't
think.
Yeah, he did shout that.

(01:26:59):
Did he? I was gonna say I'vewritten it down on the page for some
reason, but. Yeah, so that'sstill A thing.
That's still a thing. That's.Yeah, that's a. That's a thing.
She was in the book. I'mreading. Sorry, man. Must just. I'm
reading Ruby Red at theminute, which is one of the new thirteenth
Doctor, not thirteen. What amI about fifteenth Doctor novels.
And yeah, it's.
It's.

(01:27:19):
I've noticed it's popped up inthere as well. I bet. I bet all these
authors are like shaking theirfist at Russell having to keep changing
that.
Yeah, it will come back round,definitely in season. I don't know.
Pick a day in the future.Season 8, episode 3. That will change

(01:27:40):
back. Yeah, I'm sure. RightyO. Let's put some scores on this
one then. You go first, bud.What's. What do you reckon?
Yeah, well, I'm gonna go oversix out of 10, mate. It's five out
of 10 is very mid, which Ifelt the episode was, but there was
more to it. I felt like it wasan enjoyable watch, actually. I will
stick a 0.5 on there becauseit's not bad. This is the thing.

(01:28:03):
It's not a bad episode, it'sjust not a great one. So I'll go
with 6.5 out of 10.
6.5. Okie dokie. I will giveit a. I will give it a 6.5 as well.
Were you thinking of giving ita 7?
No, no, no. I was hoveringaround a 6. Yeah, I was hovering

(01:28:23):
around a 6. I was thinking.Yeah, a 6 is about right because
it's definitely not absolutelymiddle of the road. I think there
are some good things in hereto enjoy. Yeah, but it's not a good.
So I would class like a goodepisode as a 7 upwards.
Yeah, same, but.
But it's not just quite therethis year, so I'm. Agreement, dude.

(01:28:45):
6.5 as well.
Okay.
So yeah, that's the. That'sthe scores on the doors for Joy to
the World, the Crimbo special.Now, moving forward with the podcast,
we're not really sure onexactly what the plan is. Moving
forward. No, just to becompletely honest with you guys,
because we were at a situationwhere bar a couple of animated stories

(01:29:10):
left. If anyone's listenedover the last couple of months, you'll
know that we have. We'vereviewed everything in the world
of Doctor who, even the spinoffs and stuff, We've done it all.
So short of just coveringDoctor who news and merch and other
little tidbits like that,we're not sure. So keep an eye on.

(01:29:32):
On the socials. And ourDiscord server, we'll keep you guys
up to date. We will absolutely100 be putting content out each and
every month. That's. That willstill happen because we'll still
do the monthly roundtableswith the writing team. They go out
monthly. And we will also doour normal episodes. We're just not
sure at the moment what we'regoing to do for those. So we'll let

(01:29:54):
you know what's going tohappen because we have got another.
We're not going to revealanything yet, but we have got another
podcasting project that'sgoing to kick off very soon.
Yeah. Which I'm very excited about.
Yeah.
So very, very excited about.
Yeah. So what's the best wayto put it? So in, in the. The bigger
picture, the podcastingnetwork of Garry and Adam is going

(01:30:19):
to continue. Very much so,which you'll find out about next
week. But in terms of Doctorwho, that's still going to go and
we'll still be doing contentfor that. But just. We'll need to
figure out how we, we do thatmoving forward. But we will absolutely
be. Still be doing, like Isaid, the monthly roundtables and
also regular episodes, butmaybe not every single week or there

(01:30:41):
will be every week. Who knows?But we'll, we'll, we'll figure that
out.
Yeah.
And let you guys know, butkeep your ears peeled for. On the
socials for this other thingthat we've got coming anyway, which
is going to be kind of cool.Yes. And I think on that note, dude,
let's end it there. That wasepisode 416.
Alrighty.

(01:31:26):
Thank you. Thank you. Thankyou so much for coming back with
us to do another episode ofthe Big Blue Box podcast. That was
episode 416 and our review ofJoy to the World and 6.5s aplenty
for that one. In terms of newDoctor who, we haven't got anything
yet announced in terms ofstart date or anything. We think

(01:31:47):
it's gonna be March. Ish. Whoknows? We think. But you know, you
never can tell with thosethings. But I mentioned a little
a few minutes ago that we weregonna sort of let you know what's
going on with Doctor who. Onething that's an absolute certainty
is when there is new Doctorwho coming out, we will be doing
every week and every reviewsand all that stuff. So.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:32:10):
So in the meantime though,make sure that you are following
or subscribing to the podcast.As I mentioned, if you're a new listener,
whatever app you listen to,your podcast on. Give us a follow
on there. That way when newepisodes do drop, you get a notification,
all that stuff. You can alsolisten on the website bigblueboxpodcast.co.uk
plus you can read all thereviews and articles and stuff like

(01:32:32):
that from the writing team.And there are links there to go off
to the Social and the Discordserver. So hop in there and and chat
some cool Doctor who with lotsof other cool Doctor who fans. And
once again, don't forget toremember to check out my co host
channel on YouTube, the Geeks Handbag.
Geeks Handbag. Go check out myYouTube channel. Loads of vids on

(01:32:54):
there for you to enjoy.
Go and do it. The YouTube channel.
Go do it now.
And Adam's on the socials as Isaid, on the same name, the Geek's
Handbag.
That's it.
Right? Until next time. Myname's Garry.
My name's Adam.
And remember.

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