RTD Bringing Back All the Things - Season 2: Wish World - The Doctor Who Big Blue Box Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:19):
Hey, hey, hey, who fans andwelcome to The Big Blue Box Podcast.
My name's Garry.
My name's Adam.
And welcome to episode 426.Welcome back to another episode,

(00:49):
everybody. We hope you arekeeping well and safe. We hope you've
had a cracking week and thatyou've all managed to do something.
Doctor who. Oh, we're in syncon that one, pretty much.
Oh, it's only taken us 420 episodes.

(01:12):
Oh, that was nice.
That was nice.
No, no rivalries, nocompetition, no. None of that malarkey.
This week as we approach thefinale of season two, season 15.
What we calling it, mate? Whatare we bloody calling it?
What are we calling it?

(01:33):
Why don't we go with seasontwo? Because that's easier for the.
The fresh people coming toDoctor who.
Yeah, yeah. I must admit, whenI'm just talking about it, just sort
of generally off the cuff, Itend to say season two now. I think
it's kind of been ingrained inme. So let's go with that.

(01:53):
Yeah, yeah. Season 15, you'reout the door.
That's it.
Season two, you're in theclub. Right.
What does it say on the BluRay? Is that. Does it say. I mean,
I haven't got it, I know it'snot out yet, but will that be called
season two?
Well, what does season one say?
That's what I'm saying. Is itseason one over in the uk?
Let's have a look. It saysseason one.

(02:16):
Yeah, there you go then. Ifit's on the Blu ray, that's. That's
what we'll go with.
We'll go with that. Gotcha.However, that is at odds with our
Blake 7 podcast because theBlu Ray for that says series one
and we refer to it as series Ain the show.
I was, I was actually thinkingthat as soon as you mentioned what
do we call this season? Iinstantly thought of Blake 7. I thought,

(02:37):
no, don't go there becauseit's just a can of worms. All this
season, series A, B1, 2. Oh,why is it so complicated?
Why is the world so. Just aspaghetti junction of stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyways, mate, we're almostthere to penultimate episode.

(02:58):
I can't believe it.
Yeah. Do you know why we can'tbelieve it? It's because there's
sod all number of episodesthis, this time around.
Yeah.
And there we used to, youknow, car. Used to. Used to gear
ourselves up for, what was it,a 12, 13 episode run. Get ready,
dig in. You know, we get tosort of episode seven and eight.

(03:20):
And we're thinking, right, arewe out of the filler? Are we out
of the filler? The mid seriesdip, ready to ramp up to the finale.
But no, we're already there. Wow.
I know, man. And the fact wedon't. Well, we don't think we've
got a Christmas special toeven sort of tide us over. Feels
strange. It does feel reallyweird to think that this week, you

(03:44):
know, when we get the finalepisode, where are we? We're kind
of in a void. It's gonna be.It's gonna be very interesting time,
I think, this time next week,to see exactly where we are. We think
we know where we're gonna be,but where are we gonna be? We could.
It does feel a bit like we'rein wish world. Anything could happen.
This time next week.

(04:05):
It's literally like the realworld, our world is in an episode
of Doctor who right now. We'reheading towards the void, like the
nothingness outside of thetime vortex. Are we in that weird
in between bit? You know,between our universe, you know, in
flux, where they did the wholetwo universes and you had that limbo

(04:27):
darkness in the middle. Are wein the. The nothingness? The netherworld?
The Neverworld? Yeah.
Are we there?
That's what it feels like. But.
The, the. What's it called?Oh, we could be in where Omega's
knocking around these days.The underverse. We could be there.
The under verse. What was thatthing that Missy was in? That was

(04:48):
another world, wasn't it? Whatwas that? That other world that Missy
was in? You know, in death, inheaven and all that.
Oh, yeah.
Another world that we could be in.
Where. Where was that, dude?
I don't know. It's a Moffatworld. It's one of Moffat's worlds.
Yeah, that rings a bell. Ican't remember where that was.
I just want to be on Clom. Notinterested in all these other worlds.

(05:10):
I just want to be on Klom.
With the absorber lofts.
Oh, no. I've heard a rumorthat the old's coming back for the
final. No, I'm joking. Theycan't throw anything else in there,
surely.
Do you know what? You justread my mind. I was just about to
say they can't throw anythingelse at the wall, surely? Op it stick.

(05:30):
Surely. Crikey, mate, wherewas she? Right, let me just google
this, because.
That'S going to bug you, isn't it?
She was imprisoned within aquantum fold chamber.
Oh, what? No wonder I couldn'tremember it Yeah, I thought it had
a name.

(05:51):
Probably did.
Somebody will know. One of thelisteners will be.
Yep.
On the ball right now. Ex inus tweeting us.
Yeah.
What's happening as well.
Idiots.
Yeah.
How could you not know this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actuallydude, where do you think we'll be?
Just what we kick off of theread. Where do you think we'll be
this time next week? Do youthink I'll. Yeah, I'm talking to

(06:11):
rumors. Think old shoot ispacked his case. Is he? Is he a goner?
Do you reckon we're going tosee a regeneration next weekend?
Where does he gonna be?
Difficult to say, difficult tosay and I don't mean that in a sort
of facetious way where, whereit's like you know, haha look where

(06:33):
we are in limbo isn't it? Imean I genuinely have no idea. In
previous years and previousactors who are sort of ramping up
to the end of their era on theshow you can kind of kind of put
a pin in somewhere where youthink it's going to go because you
get rumblings of like oh youknow the regeneration scene's been

(06:54):
filmed and that stuff. But allwe've got to go on with Shooty, pretty
much everything to do with himand what's going on is all rumor.
Like literally nothing's beenconfirmed or said by the Beeb or
by Russell. I think the onlything that the BBC have said is there
was a tabloid or a blog thatreached out to them because here

(07:17):
in the UK Listener, if you'venot had the pleasure of looking at
tabloid press in the UK beforeover the last week it's just been
flooded with headline storiesabout Doctor who being axed, Shooty
being kicked out because ofwokeness and all this stuff. And

(07:37):
because he pulled out ofEurovision they fired him because
it looks bad on the loads ofstuff. But I think when one of them
reached out to the Beef theysaid look we don't conspire to any
rumors or you know, any ofthat rubbish, you know until we say
so it's all just rubbish. Sobecause of that there's literally
nothing to go on mate, I haveno idea.

(07:59):
You have a gut feeling though.
The only thing I will say isbecause of the again this kind of
limbo feeling around what'shappening with Disney. Are they going
to chip in again for anotherseries? Are they not? Are we going
to go on a break while theysought finances? Are we going to
self host again from the BBCall that stuff? I think because of

(08:22):
all that nobody can reallyblame Shooty if he did decide that
he was going to go. Becauseyou can't really expect him to. Because
although his, I'm guessingthe, the salary that he got for being
the Doctor would be reasonablyhigh salary. You know what I mean?

(08:45):
His payment for the Doctorwould be reasonably high. He's a
leading man in a, in a verypopular show. He's still a working
actor. You know, he can't justnow retire on these, you know, on
these payments he's got forbeing the Doctor. So he has to find
work somewhere and you can'texpect him to sit around, to sit

(09:07):
around in a Doctor whodressing gown and slippers, whistling
the Doctor who theme tune,waiting for the phone to ring, waiting
for Russell to call him andsay, good news, dude, Disney are
on board for another season.We'll see you in the office on Monday.
You know, you can't reallyexpect him to just sit there and
wait. So if he's had loads ofother opportunities and stuff like

(09:30):
that, you can't really blamehim for, you know, for, for saying,
you know, I can't sit aroundand wait while you guys do your thing,
so I'm out of here. So ifthat's the reason why he left, which
I, I personally think it is, Ihonestly think that he's just not,
he's not. His world is notDoctor who, you know, other things

(09:51):
to do. So I think, yes, my gutfeeling is he has left. Whether his
regeneration scene has beenfilmed or not, I don't know. That
again, was a rumor. But Ithink he has left not because he
was fired, not because ofwokeness, not because he pulled out
of Eurovision, none of thatnonsense. I just believe that. My
gut feeling is there's a wholeworld of other shows and films for

(10:13):
him to be in and he can't waitaround for Doctor who.
Yeah, no, I'm. I'm very muchin the same camp, mate. That's exactly
what I'm would assume ishappening. You know, I mean, I'm
obviously in the US at theminute, but I did see, you know,
some of the tabloid front pageheadlines last week or this week,
whenever it was saying thathe'd been fired because of Eurovision,

(10:35):
which doesn't make any senseat all because we all know that this
series was filmed, you know, awhile ago and we know there were
reshoots recently. SoEurovision, all that stuff that they're
blaming, you know, like yousaid, about him being fired, I don't
buy into that at all, but Ido, I can Absolutely. See, if I was
in shoot his shoes with theshow being in the position that it's

(10:57):
in at the moment, which isundeniable, it's kind of is in a
bit of limbo itself. There'san uncertainty around the show at
the moment. You cannot reallyexpect him to just, yeah, put everything
on pause and, you know, carryon. He may, if he's decided it's
time to move on. He's done histwo seasons, whatever. He probably

(11:19):
expected to do more, butthings haven't worked out how they
planned. It's time to move on.No bad feeling, nobody fired, nothing
like that. It's just that'sthe way it's gone. I wouldn't blame
him at all, mate. I don'texpect him to sit around waiting
to get the green light onseries three, which might not happen
for another couple of years. Imean, even if it's green lit, you

(11:41):
know, he's still got waitaround for scheduling to be done,
blah, blah, blah. So I don'tblame him at all if he decided to
walk. What I am interested inis how that's going to be dealt with
in this week's finale episode.That's the bit I'm really intrigued
by because I feel very muchlike I did when Jodie's last episode

(12:03):
was going to air. And at thetime we knew that David was back,
but we didn't know was shegoing to regenerate into David. Shooty
had also been cast. Was shegoing to regenerate into Shooty?
That was a really excitingmoment for me, you know, and I'm
sure a lot of people took whenthey sat down to see how's this episode
actually going to play out.And then obviously we got to see

(12:25):
David turn up. So I've gotthat same buzz this week, mate, that
I'm really looking. However itgoes, whatever way it goes, I'm so
looking forward to seeing howthis series ends. And you know what?
It might just have a nicehappy wrap up. It might be a little
bit like Survival where theDoctor and Belinda just walk off,
you know, chatting about teagetting cold. It might not be like

(12:47):
a big massive OMG ending andI'll be happy with that as well.
So I think I'm good whateverhappens, mate. I'm just sort of really
intrigued to see what we get,really how it does turn out.
Yeah, that would be lovely,mate. It'd be sad in one way, but
love, because maybe it won'thave the same impact as survival,

(13:07):
I'm not sure, but you know,when they play the music for that.
You know, that always hits me,dude. That hits me hard. Yeah, that
bit of music as he starts tosay, somewhere out there, oh, mate,
I'm choking now.
Steady. Save yourself for next week.
Here we go.
Pull yourself together. Come on.

(13:28):
Anyway, that would be a lovelyway to do it, because you and I have
spoken many times in the pastabout how can they mix up a little
bit the. The formula forchanging eras, changing Doctors,
whatever. It doesn't alwayshave to be, because what I think
what they've done in previousseasons quite a few times now is

(13:49):
they throw a bit of a bait andswitch out there where the Doctor
looks like he's about, orshe's about to regenerate, but then
there's something happens andit stops and then the real regeneration
happens, you know, in certainamount of time here later.
Yeah.
So why not just, you know,change the formula? I know they've

(14:10):
done that a little bit withthis BI generation stuff, and that's
obviously a very big change,but, you know, it doesn't have to
be the same. At the very lastfive seconds of the finale, you see
the Doctor's regenerationenergy start to come out of them,
and then it's the cliffhanger,and then you have to wait for the

(14:30):
next. It doesn't have to bethat way, does it? Every time.
The more I thought about it,the more I'm thinking, I don't really
want it to be an openregeneration. I don't. I'll be fine
if it is, but I don't reallywant that to happen. I'd much rather.
I mean, these reshoots thatapparently happened were just in
sort of someone's house. So hewas thinking, well, that seems an
odd place for the Doctor toregenerate. I'd much rather they

(14:53):
were actually in the backgarden just filming shooty places,
popping around to see, youknow, the 14th doctor who's on, and
they just sit and have a cupof tea and a slice of cake. Cup of
tea and slice of cake. Mr.And. And, you know, and the camera
pans back and it's left likethat. And then if the show comes
back and it's a new Doctor,we're just starting afresh, because
you can do that with Doctorwho. Look at Eccleston come back,

(15:15):
made one comment about hisears. So we knew he'd sort of regenerated.
If you even knew whatregeneration was coming into the
show at that point in 2005. Soyou can bring it back with another
Doctor. We don't have to seethem regenerate, you know what I
mean? But, yeah, I'm good withwhatever. Maybe I. I sort of will
be slightly disappointed if weget an open regeneration. If he starts

(15:36):
and the arms come out and thecamera pans back like they were gonna
do with Jody before they reedited, just that, to me feels a
bit predictable. And Iprobably will be a little bit sad
if we get that. I'd ratherjust have no regeneration at all.
Just have him. Like you said,just a happy ending. If we want to
pick up in a couple of yearswith the new Doctor, or if Hughie
wants to come back, go for it.

(15:58):
I agree.
But let's see.
That would be cool.
Yeah, yeah.
Talking of cups of tea, I'vegot a lovely cup of tea here, mate.
You know, sometimes when youstart a cup of tea and you think,
that's a really good cup oftea. Yep. Talking of that listener,
whichever type of listener youare, we hope you have got a cup of

(16:18):
tea and you've. You've settledin ready to listen to our views and
waffle on this week's episodeof Wish. Well, before we get to that,
we'd love to have youfollowing along and subscribing to
the podcast in whateverpodcast app you generally listen
to them on. If you're a newtime listener, that'd be awesome.
Welcome aboard the Tardis. Ifyou are new and you just hit the

(16:41):
Follow or subscribe button,that way you'll get notifications
when all the new episodes landin your podcast app of choice. If
you're one of the long timers,the Grizzled Ancients, then welcome
back to the Big Blue Box. It'sgood to have you. We hope you lot
are subscribing. Jesus. Yeah,you lot. Well, you know who I'm talking
about as well. There's acouple on the Discord. I know, I

(17:01):
know, you don't subscribe yet.Let's fix that. Yeah, let's hit the
button. Let's do all that. Youcan also listen online on the website,
which is bigbu Box Podcast uk.All the episodes are on there for
free and you can check out allof the articles and reviews from
the very cool writing team whodo loads of stuff like big finish
reviews, event roundups,editorial pieces. Really cool. There

(17:23):
was a comment that dropped injust a couple of days ago from one
of Harry's articles from,like, months ago about. His article
was about why does Shooty cryall the time?
All right. Yes.
And it's not as. It's not thetype of article that you think it
is. It's not just a let's layinto shoot his character for crying
all the time. It actually goesinto a lot of depth about that stuff.

(17:46):
Anyway, so loads of reallycool stuff from the writing team
over there and there are alsolinks to the socials. Hop off there.
We chat Doctor who throughoutthe week, in between episodes and
just generally. So give us afollow and chat with us over there
and we have a really cool freeDiscord server. Again, the link's
on our website. Hop in thereand chat Doctor who with lots of
other very cool who fans. Andlastly, don't forget to remember

(18:08):
to check out my co hostchannel on YouTube. As always, it
is the Geeks Handbag.
The Geeks Handbag. Yeah, gocheck out my channel also on all
the socials, pretty much underthe name the Geek's Handbag Indeedy.
Right dude. Up for review thisweek. What we got?
So yeah, here we are mate.We're approaching the final with

(18:32):
episode seven called WishWorld Hologram. Explain the history
books say the planet.
Ended on the old earth dateMay 24, 2025.
Cause unknown. I am not justgonna take you home, home.
I am going to save your home.Here we go. Let battle begin. Morning,

(18:57):
darling.
Morning, sweetheart. Happymorning everyone. Happy morning,
Conrad. I ask you, how cananyone doubt this glorious world
of neither?
Happy morning, UnifiedNational Insurance Team.
How can I help? It's a shamethese little people have to die.

(19:20):
I was getting rather fond ofthem. Belinda's epic scream cutting
through there.
Indeed. Yep.
Okay. Wish World Episode 7, asAdam said, was first broadcast just
the other day, 24th May 2025.It was written by Russell T. Davis.

(19:46):
It was directed by AlexSanjeev Pillai. It stars Shruti Gatwa,
Virada Sethu and MillieGibson's back as Ruby in this one.
And a really decent sized castof supporting cast members. And the
synopsis is Traps are sprungand old enemies unite as the Doctor

(20:07):
and Belinda finally arrivehome to find a very different world.
Can the Doctor see the truthbefore midnight arrives? Traps are
sprung and it's just the samething. Repeat over again. Anyway,
that's the synopsis as usual, mate.
That's cleared it up. That'sanswered all my questions about this
episode.
Indeed. Exactly the same aslast week. I am so intrigued to find

(20:31):
out what you thought of thisone, mate. So straight away, as usual,
what you got?
Yeah, I'm very intrigued tohear what you think of this one as
well. And I think it's becausethis Series has been so divisive
and unpredictable, hasn't it?We've said before we, because we
know each other so well now,we kind of get a feeling in our stomach

(20:52):
of what the other might bethinking. Hasn't been the case with
this series all the time, as Ithink sometimes we've known, but
other times it's hard toguess. This is definitely one of
those because we never discusslistener before we record. We never
give each other hints. I thinkonly once has Garry ever broken that
cardinal rule. I can'tremember what episode was that broke

(21:13):
you. There was one episode youhated and you text me and said something
like, dude, I don't think Ican bear to review this week's episode.
And I said, oh my God, he'sbroken protocol. Which episode was
that one you really hated?
Yeah, it was a while ago now.
Yeah, we've. It's onlyhappened the once, but he didn't
break protocol on this. I'veno idea what he thinks, mate. I was
dreading watching this. It waslike, because I was really, really

(21:37):
busy over the weekend, I knewI wasn't going to get to see it till
Sunday or Monday. So I waslike, I've kind of gone past the
point of caring about spoilersat the minute, to be honest. So I
opened up Twitter and wow,the. The, the responses I was seeing
was bad. Like, everyone. Thatwas terrible. Like, and not just
from the usual haters, I mean,just from friends and people I follow.

(21:59):
And I was like, oh, wow, thishasn't gone down well. And then I
open our blue box, WhatsAppand Maria's like, has anyone seen
it yet? Because I need to rantand like, oh, my words, this episode
sounds like it was a disaster.So I was really putting off watching
it, to be honest. And I didn'tget around to watching it till last
night, actually. Sorry, Mondaynight. And yeah, that is last night.

(22:21):
I lost track. Anyway, I saidto my partner, should we watch Doctor
who? Then? I'm just going towarn you, apparently it's terrible,
so don't, you know, don't wantyou moaning or falling asleep for
it. Let's just get it on andget it done. So I was quite surprised
that I quite enjoyed it. I waslike, oh, it's one of those where
everyone hated it and Iactually thought it was alright.

(22:45):
I mean, not a particularlygreat episode or anything like that,
but I don't know, it had acool concept and I saw lots of people
saying it was really boringand lots of exposition, which there
was definitely A lot ofexposition. I agree with that. But
I didn't find it boring. I wasquite intrigued by the whole wish
world thing and I was findingmyself smiling at all the returning

(23:06):
characters from shooters firstera. The fact they were all in it
and UNIT was now an estateagent or whatever it was. What was.
What's UNIT turned into?
They've turned into a. What'sthe world like a insurance broker.
Insurance broker. Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, so yeah, I was. I wasjust like thinking this kind of fun.

(23:27):
And what's going on with thecups? Keep smashing. That's interesting.
And the ran is stolen. Thisbaby and she's pretty cool. And yeah,
overall mate, I. All I can sayis I thought it was an okay episode
that I enjoyed. It didn't blowme away. I thought it was setting
everything up for next week'sfinale. Which is exactly what I expected
it to do. Yeah, I just thoughtit was fine. I was quite sort of

(23:51):
scratching my head trying towork out quite why it got such a
bad rep from the majority ofpeople I'd seen online. So. Don't
know mate. I thought was okay.Let's see if you agree. Maybe you're
one of the people online whocouldn't wait to tear it to shreds.
Let's find out. What do you think?
Do you know what mate? Ididn't. I didn't think it was as

(24:13):
bad as last as the week beforelast. The week before last. And probably.
Yeah, it's been a bit of astruggle if I'm being honest with
you. And you and I have bothsaid the same thing for this season
pretty much with almost everyepisode that it's been a bit of a.

(24:33):
I wouldn't say a slog, butit's. Some things are not really
resonating. Right. I thinkthat's fair to say. And we've had
a couple of. Yeah, we've had acouple of comments on. On a couple
of. The last few week. Thelast few weeks episode or last couple
of weeks. We've had somecomments mainly over on Spotify and
I agree with themwholeheartedly and I replied to a

(24:55):
couple of them to say, youknow, you guys are normally very
positive even for episodesthat are viewed amongst fandom as
pretty poor. Whatever. Youguys still find the positive stuff
and don't get me wrong, westill look for that stuff, of course.
Every time. Last week was areal good one for me. Although you
and I had very differingopinions. I was really into it. You

(25:18):
not so much. So this week Ithink we've evened out a bit because
I didn't mind this either. Ithought it was a. There's some things
that I'm really confusedabout, which we'll get on to. And
there were some things that Ithought worked really well. And,
yeah, there's some interestingchoices about where this could go

(25:39):
next week. I will say, just tosurmise that I don't feel like a
great deal happened in thisepisode. I felt like it was very,
very much teeing up next week.Very much a big setup episode.
Yeah.
So not a great deal. It's oneof those weird ones where lots of
stuff's happening but not muchis happening, if that makes sense.

(26:02):
You know, so conceptually,some great stuff, some great ideas
in here, but just. No, notmuch in the way of substance. I will
say it's. To me, it's one ofthose. It's one of those episodes
where you can. You put it onand at the end of it you feel like,
okay, that wasn't a terriblewatch. It wasn't an amazing watch,

(26:26):
but what exactly did I watch?You know, it was one of those, okay,
you really have to watch nextweek and com. You know, bung the
two into the same pot, Ithink, to get a good picture of this
episode, because we've onlyliterally got half the story. Literally.
Yeah.
So, yeah, not too bad, dude.Didn't mind it. Fairly middle of

(26:50):
the road for me. Not great.Not terrible. Just. Yeah, plodding
along.
Yeah, no, I think that's fair,mate. I think what I was relieved.
Stroke. Pleased about by thetime it finished. Two things, actually.
One, that for the majority ofit, my partner had quite enjoyed

(27:10):
it because I was justexpecting this to be a car crash.
From what I'd heard it was. Hewas quite invested in it. He did
say this is like WandaVision,which I was like, yeah, everybody's
saying that. It's like, youknow, you're not the first to point
out. There's definitely someparallels there. And Russell, you.
You know, you. You must havewatched that series before doing
this, but it was aninteresting concept. It may not have

(27:31):
been particularly new or freshor orig. Original, but, you know,
it worked for me. I thought Iwas quite cool having them trapped
in this world and they don'tknow who they are. And you are waiting
for that moment when thedoctor, you know, remembers who he
is, which is very much like inthe Family of Blood. You're just
kind of waiting for him tobreak out of it. So, again, kind
of nothing original here. Beendone before, but Yeah, I was kind

(27:54):
of along for the ride. Youknow, I thought visually, it looked
very nice. I absolutely lovethe big skeleton clock room that
the ran. It's got. I mean, youknow, that was a fantastic. I assume
it was said it looked like aset rather than cgi, so that's obviously
where some of the Disneymoney's gone. But, yeah, the concept
of it, not original, but itkept me invested. The stuff with

(28:15):
the cups crashing, I was like,what's that about? And then when
it was explained, a veryobvious, you know, answer. But I
thought, oh, okay, that's.That's cool, that's interesting.
So, yeah, it. Like you said,mate, it's definitely set up. Nothing
majorly happened in it. Iagree it was mostly exposition, but

(28:36):
I think I was expecting that.That's exactly what I thought this
episode was going to be. So Iwasn't sort of disappointed in that
sense, because I just thoughtthat's what Russell does. A bit like
last year's finale. We reallyenjoyed part one, didn't we? Can't
remember what it's called, butthat was all set up. But it had a
real sense of danger and, youknow, it really built. This one didn't

(28:57):
quite have that same buildup,I don't feel, but it still had a
good. It still left me excitedfor next week. That's the thing I
was going to say. Sorry. Therewere two things I was pleased about.
One, that my partner enjoyedit, and two, that I was expecting
to get to the end of this andthink to myself, oh, thank goodness,
we've only got one moreepisode left. If I'm brutally honest,
that's how I expected to feel,I was thinking, but I didn't. It

(29:21):
finished good cliffhanger withthe Doctor falling and I just saw.
And the world's collapsingaround us, and I actually thought,
oh, I'm actually reallyexcited for next week now. Not because
it was great episode, butthere was enough in there to, I want
to find out the answers, Iwant to see what happens, to shoot
his Doctor in terms ofregeneration and stuff. So, yeah,
I was actually left feeling,okay, I'm up for next week. Which

(29:44):
was. It should be a given,mate, but in the way that the Doctor
who is at the moment, itisn't, unfortunately. So I was just
pleased to be excited for nextweek's finale as well. So in this
sense, I think it did. It didthe job it's meant to do.
Yeah, I'd agree with that,mate. It's definitely set up next
week as a big. It needs to tiea lot of things up. Admittedly, there's

(30:05):
a lot of stuff that it needsto try and squeeze in.
Yes.
And so let's hope they getaround to that. But I think the episode
you're referring to is ALegend of Ruby Sunday, which leads
on to Empire of Death. Right.That was the whole.
That's right, yes.
You know, the whole Sutekthing. That's it actually, in relation

(30:25):
to that. Let's go. Let's gotop level for a second. I'm more
in. I'm more interested nextweek in some of the more contained
storylines, if I'm beinghonest, because this is now. God,
how many times now has Russellbrought back a. An old classic monster

(30:45):
to. To do battle with, likethe modern stuff, you know, so I'm
kind of. I'm sort of gettingtired a little bit of. Of this stuff.
So with the whole Omega thing.So in the preview, in the next time
trailer for, for this week'sepisode, the Rani says something

(31:08):
along the lines of, I'll bringOmega back and forge a new Gallifrey
or something. Yeah, I think,you know, here we go, here we go,
here we go. Russell. Russell'sbeen on the old cl. I'm sure that
right when Russell sits downand he's planning out some of these
things, it's on the back oflike a 48 hour drunken binge of classic

(31:33):
Doctor who.
You're sure not thinking of Moffat.
Well, he's. Well, the Moffatwas the opposite. Like, he'd have
three bottles of red wine inthe space of an hour, come up with
some ludicrous brand new thing.
Yes. Yeah, you're right. Likethe Silence or, you know, the Weeping
Angels. He was good at stufflike that.
You're right, exactly. Yeah.And then he'd launch a bottle at

(31:55):
the wall and then we'd get onwith our lives and that'd be it.
Whereas Russell's the otherway. He's like, you know, I've got
this weird rationale thatRussell's a white. A white wine drinker
for some reason, I don't knowwhy. But anyway, he's like six bottles
of, I don't know, SauvignonBlanc down, and he's watched like,

(32:17):
you know, all of, like, thekey episodes of each classic Doctor
and he's like, yeah, I'llbring this thing back and have we
done Davros, babe? Oh, have wedone Davros? Oh, we have. Right,
right. Davros is done Susec.Oh, yeah, we've done him.
Yeah.
We could bring back The Darknote. Okay. Sick of being shouted

(32:40):
at. Never mind. Oh, let's putarc of Infinity on Omega, you little
bugger. Right, we haven't seenyou in a bit. Let's drag you kicking
and screaming into it. So tomake the whole big thing, you know,
the big stuff, the Rani or theRanis, Omega, all that stuff. To

(33:03):
be honest with you, mate, I'm.I'm not really too fussed about that
because I hyped myself up intostupid levels of expectancy with
the whole Sutek thing. BecauseI was expecting, like, classic Sutek
in the mask, more kind ofhumanoid Sutek to just be, you know,
kicking around and doing histhing. And it turns out we got a

(33:25):
big CG dog and whatever.
Yeah.
So that wasn't. Yeah, thatdidn't land for me, as, you know,
anyone listen, you know, heardour review, you'll know it didn't
land. So I'm really, reallyhoping, mate, that we don't get some
big CG version of Omega that'sgoing to come crashing through the
seal of. Because in thetrailer for next time, you can see

(33:46):
the seal of Omega, can't you?The green thing, and that starts
to open slightly and then onthe other side, you've got the Seal
of Rasselon and all thatstuff. So is. So, dude, shall we
just clue up the new. Thenewbie. So Doctor who. Because the
show really hasn't done a goodjob of that, has it? Like, I will
say, if you're a newbie toDoctor who, you're a casual viewer.

(34:09):
This is the first time you'rewatching Doctor who. You have done
well to get to episode seven.I'll tell you what, mate, last week
I was watching that episodewith wifey, right? And about 35 minutes
in, I thought she got up to.When I thought she got up to go make
a cup of tea.

(34:30):
No, you didn't see her again?
I didn't see her. She justleft. So I said, oh, do you want
me to jump to go back andjust. We'll pick up where you left
off. She's like, no, I can'twatch that. She's like, I just can't
watch it because she went. I'msure you lot know what's going on.
Like, you lot, as in, like,there's a lot. Us lot as like, who?
Fans and stuff. But she'slike, honestly, babe, I have not

(34:53):
got the absolute foggiest whatis going on. She's like, there are
things she said, there arecharacters that are being mentioned.
There are things from olderDoctor who that are being mentioned.
All this stuff she said, Ijust have no clue. Like I literally
am lost. I'm sitting here withbrain fog thinking I want to enjoy

(35:13):
this, but I just have no ideawhat these things are.
Yeah, that's fair. I mean,that's why I always love to get sort
of like what, you know, coolfor. Want to bet with the casual
viewers view? I just alwaysthink, how is this going down with
just somebody who might justhave plonked down to watch this?
Because that's the thing, youknow, my partner was invested, but

(35:33):
I'm pretty sure he had no cluewho the Rani was or you know, the
name drop of Omega at the end,which obviously for me was like Omega
really to him meant nothing.So I mean, you know, it's. I guess
you're trying to appeal toboth the hardcore and the casual.
But yeah, I don't know, mate.It still didn't have that big OMG

(35:53):
effect on me of, you know, thereturn of Omega potentially coming
this week. It didn't. Stilldidn't sort of land in the way that
I think it should have. Ithink it's because we now, like you
said, I almost expecting allof this stuff from Russell. It almost
feels a bit predictable. Likeyou said, he's done Sutek, so who's
he going to move on to next?I. I am surprised that he's throwing

(36:16):
so much at the screen, if I'mhonest. I think next week's final.
I just get a feeling and Ihope I'm wrong. I just get a feeling
it's gonna be everything inthe kitchen sink and it's gonna be
a bit of a mess because we doknow that Russell's not very good
at landing with his finalsparticularly well. So again, I'm
sort of, I'm not being down onit. I just. I'm just tempering my

(36:38):
expectations that I'm notexpecting great things next week.
I just hope that some of itactually sticks and lands, you know,
I mean, like you said, I thinkthis is the problem. I think sometimes
it's built up to be. It's gotto be this big thing when actually
is the quieter stuff that ismore engaging. So for example, although

(37:00):
I find it weird having tworanis, the Mrs. Flood Rani and the
other Rani, because they areso contrasting in character. I'm
actually really liking thisalmost duo double hander that we've
got between the two actors.You know, it's quite fun seeing Mrs.
Flood getting annoyed athaving to make a sandwich and I do

(37:21):
get the feeling she mayactually turn on herself and, you
know, she might actually turnagainst the. The new Ronnie. So there's
fun moments like that and Ithink actually you could have just
concentrated on the Rani andwhatever, but we'll see, mate. As
for a big CGI Omega, prettysure that's what's coming. I'll be
very surprised if someone in asuit, as in costume, not a. Not a

(37:43):
pinstripe suit. I'll be verysurprised if someone in an Omega
outfit whilst is in this week,but who knows? I'm pretty sure it'd
be a big old CGI something orother. Who. Who knows? Yeah, we shall
see. I haven't seen this. Iknow there's a leak going round of
a supposed picture of what'scoming. I haven't seen it. I don't

(38:04):
want to see it actually. Butapparently it's fake anyway.
But. Yeah, gotcha. Yeah.
I don't think they'll be ableto resist it, mate. Not after Sutek.
I mean, look what they did tosuit it. They're gonna try and make
it as big and, you know,whatever, aren't they?
Yeah. And also, let's notforget that. So Omega, new listeners,

(38:26):
new watchers of the show.Omega is touted as, like, he's described
in a couple of ways, butoverall he's meant to be like the
first Time Lord. Like, he'smeant to be the guy that. He's like
this mega, mega intelligentsort of intergalactic engineer and

(38:51):
he harnessed the power of asupernova and made time travel possible.
So he, he's the guy that'sresponsible for enabling that technology
for the Time Lords. So he'smeant to be like, yeah, this kind
of genius engineer dudeunfortunately lost his marbles when

(39:12):
he gets stuck into. In theantimatter universe. He ends up going
absolutely bonkers. As you would.
Yeah.
And you have to go back andwatch the Three Doctor story. But
they basically find him andhe's just absolutely. He's lost his
marbles. So. And there's a bitin that story. There is if there's

(39:35):
a spoiler to this, by the way,if you've not seen the three doctors,
fast forward 10 seconds now.But when he takes off his mask, there's
just nothing there. It's justlike he's invisible. Whatever, He's.
He's gone nuts. Um, so thatmakes me think that because of that
they could do some kind ofweird CG thing because at this point
nobody really knows what Omegalooks like.

(39:57):
Yeah.
So they could do the Whole.The whole thing. So how does that
relationship work with theRani Omega? I don't know to my knowledge,
dude, please correct me if I'mwrong. I don't know of any stories
where the Rani and Omega havebeen in cahoots before or anything.
I don't know.
No, I mean, I don't know. Notthat I'm aware of. I mean, you know,

(40:17):
there could be like a newVirgin Adventure story book or something,
but not that I'm aware of,Mate. I mean, Omega is a great character.
So a bit like with Sutek, I amapprehensive about what they might
do with Omega as a characterbecause, I mean, with Sutek, the.
The real crime was that theydidn't do anything with him. You

(40:39):
know, it's kind of reducedfrom being a really good character
to just a dog on a lead beingpulled through a vortex. So I don't
want to see that happen toOmega because he is a great character.
And if you are new to Omega asa character and you're thinking,
oh, I might check out. Hmm,hang on, I've got the Three Doctors
in my left hand. And what'sthis Arc of Infinity? Which shall

(41:01):
I go for? I would say ifyou're only gonna watch one, probably
the Three Doctors.
The Three Doctors.
I have a soft spot for Arc ofInfinity. But, you know, it's Three
Doctors is definitely thebetter Omega story. You'll get a
lot more from it. So. Yeah,I'm just worried what they might
do with the character. Matemore than anything. Plus, you've
got. Yeah, the Rani. I thinkSusan will be back next week. I think

(41:25):
we might see Joe Martin'sDoctor back, the Fugitive Doctor.
I think there's going to be alot thrown in. I just hope it doesn't
turn into a complete shambles,to be honest.
Yeah, you know what's going tohappen? It's going to be like the
Rise of Skywalker, wherethere's going to be lots of stuff
going on and you've only got avery short run time, generally speaking.

(41:46):
So you're going to have tospeed run through a lot of these
things to tie them up andstuff. If they decide to tie them
up, they might not. They mightleave it on a huge cliffhanger, tune
in. God knows when it's comingback. 20, 29, you know, we'll have
it all. You're ready to go. Sowe've kind of started at the end,
haven't we? With Omega?
We have a bit, yeah.

(42:07):
But it's important toreference that stuff. Because he
is an important character insort of Time Lord history, isn't
he? And Gallifreyan lore andeverything and. And all that. So,
yeah, I imagine if you are. Ifyou're listening to his podcast,
you're kind of in the knowanyway. But just in case that was
the whole deal with Omega. Andthe reason why he's such a. He's

(42:27):
such a grumpy sod is becausehe felt like the Time Lord's kind
of forgotten about him.
He felt like underappreciated. A bit like Conrad, actually.
Maybe there's a link.
Yeah, he felt like he was, youknow, off in this antimatter universe
for God knows how long. Nobodycame to rescue him, even though he's
the one that gave them allthis power and all the rest of it.

(42:48):
So he's a bit. He's a bitgrumpy, to say the least, which makes
me think it's. I don't thinkit's going to be plain sailing for
the Rani if she does manage tobring Omega back. I don't think it's
going to be a case of I'vebrought you back. You've got that,
you know, between us, we canbring back Gallifrey or a new version

(43:10):
of Gallifrey, whatever thatmight be. I think he's gonna have
a bit more of a. A bit. Somescores to settle before he just says,
okay, yeah, let's. Let's Legobrick this and. And bring Gallifrey
back. I don't know. Anyway,that's Omega. The other thing to
consider, dude, is where do.Where do we stand at this point in

(43:32):
canon and the narrativelyrunning through this season with
the whole timeless childthing? Because if you think about
the two halves of the TimeLord's power, you've got the time
travel bit, which is more thekind of science thing with Omega,

(43:53):
then you've got theregeneration stuff, which is Tektayun.
Right?
Yeah.
And using, because the Doctoris kind of unique power to regenerate.
It was that that they used andsort of reverse engineered that,
and the Time Lords now usethat power to regenerate. So is there

(44:17):
going to be a thing where theymarry up these two things where you've
got Omega from one side, yougot this whole timeless child tecton
thing on this side. Is thatgoing to play a part? Because Russell
hasn't wiped that away fromexistence as he got still a thing.
So if they're going back tolike, old, old origins of the Time

(44:38):
Lords and origins of theirstuff with Omega, could that be a.
Could that be a thing? Becausewe have seen Jo Martin's Doctor in
it and she apparently predatesHartnell. So are we going to see
some of that stuff play out?
I don't know, mate. It really is.
Come on, get your brain ingear, dude.

(44:58):
Well, it's just that there'sso much, isn't there? It's like it
is such a can of worms. Imean, because I'm trying to work
out, how does Poppy fit intothis? You know, how does Susan fit
into this? Like I said, wheredoes the fugitive Doctor fit? It's
just. I don't know, mate. Thisis why I think sometimes they should
just sort of stay clear of allthis stuff, you know, because you

(45:19):
start tying yourself in knots.I mean, it would be interesting if
they played into that, but Idon't think they will. I don't think
they'd know. I don't thinkRussell would know where to start,
because as soon as you try andexplain one thing, you're going to
contradict another, I wouldassume. I don't know, I can't see
it.
Yeah, true. One thing I wouldlike to see, though, moving forward,
not next week, but in futureseries of Doctor who, is Gallifrey

(45:43):
back?
You want to see Gallifrey back?
Yeah, but I'd like to see itin a different. In a different light.
So I'd like to see Gallifreyback in existence and the Doctor
sort of hopping in and out ofGallifrey now and then as a fugitive,
like back to the old days,where he's run away from Gallifrey.

(46:05):
Yeah.
You know, he's stolen thetardis, he's run away. But every
now and then there's thoseinteractions with the Time Lords,
isn't there? It's even like wereference the three Doctors, you
know, they play a part inthat, don't they? They allow Doctor
to cross his own time streamand have multiple existing at the
same time, etc. So, you know,things like that, where they're still

(46:29):
kind of mysterious in a way,but, you know, Gallifrey is back
and it just opens up so manydoors for future stories and whatnot,
because there's only so manytimes you can see the Doctor get
mopey and cry about, you know,being the last of the Time Lords.
You know, if we're going toreinvent the wheel with some of this
stuff, why not bring Gallifreyback anyway?

(46:51):
Yeah, I. I actually agree withyou, believe it or not, because I.
I'm kind of really bored ofthe Last of Time Lords. But, oh,
he's not the last of TimeLords as the Master as well. Oh,
hang on a minute. There's alsoa Time Lady, I think they called
her, didn't they? The Rani. Sohe's not the last of Time Lord, is
he? And also, I agree withyou, mate. You know, when you look
back at the classic era, itwas quite exciting, wasn't it, as

(47:12):
a fan, when the Doctor wentback to Gallifrey. If you think of,
like the Deadly Assassin, butonly now and again, that's what made
it good.
Yeah.
You know, even. What's the onewhere he goes back and he's pretending
to. You think the Doctor'sgone mad. The one with the Sontarans.
Even that one, you know. Sothe problem is, Gallifrey's been

(47:33):
come back. It's beendestroyed. It's come back. It's in
a pocket universe, it's comeback. It is getting a bit tiresome.
So I would like them to bringit back and just leave it, you know,
it's back. That's it. We don'tneed to destroy it again. We don't
need to hide it, we don't needto do anything else. Gallifrey's
back. The Time Lords are back.It's there. The Doctor may pop back

(47:54):
home once every three or fourseries, you know, it'll be a treat.
Oh, my God, the Doctor's goneback to Gallifrey. Not every week.
And then it would be nice,wouldn't it be special again, you
know?
Yeah.
Rather than just being like,oh, Gallifrey, really? Again. The
crystal, the Citadel domeagain. You know what I mean?
Exactly that, dude.
Yeah.
Have it back, have it re.Established in history, but just.

(48:18):
That's a good word.
But just have the Doctorinteract with them every now and
then.
Yeah. No, no, that's theperfect word, mate. Re established.
It's there. You don't need to.You know, it's just. It's there if
you want it. It doesn't needto be. Bit like the Doctor, really.
We know so much about theDoctor now and yet we know so little.
Because I've messed aroundwith the character so much that just

(48:39):
have it established and thenit's there to tap into now and again
if you need to or want to.Yeah, so I agree, mate, I do.
That might be cool. Yeah. Wehave gone about this ass. About face.
We've gone right at the veryend and all that stuff.
We always.
Let's bring it back to the beginning.
Okay.

(48:59):
Of the episode. Just quickly.So the. It starts out the. The premise
is we're tapping into thisthing about the pantheon of the gods.
Aren't with this one. Aren'twe? So we've gone through a couple
of them, and now we're on whatappears to be the last of these gods,
which is the God of wishes, I think.

(49:22):
Yeah.
So the Rani goes back in timeto Bavaria, back in the. Whatever
day it was, 1865. And there'sa baby being born. And she knows
it's the. It's the God ofwishes. Kills the family, takes the
child and gives the child toConrad. Conrad then creates this

(49:45):
world. He wishes this worldinto existence. And that means that
people are trapped in thiskind of pseudo reality where it's
his thoughts, you know, andhis wishes that are keeping this
world going, while the Ranis.Is it right to say the Ranis? Because

(50:06):
I don't know what the plural.I mean, I guess it's just the rani
is. Can be used in both singleand plural, I guess. I'm not sure.
But the. The two Ranicharacters, they've got a larger
grand plan, we know, which isto bring back Omega. We've just been
talking about. So this wholeworld that exists, which is fake,

(50:26):
obviously, it's createdaround. Everybody has to be a believer.
And people who have doubtsabout the reality, they get carted
off and whatever. And weirdthings happen. So what did you think
to that premise of Conrad'sworld that he's created and this
concept of things don't feellegit, you know, the Doctor starting

(50:51):
to twig a little bit oncertain things. Belinda has doubts.
And this whole concept aswell, of, you know, when Watts's
face comes back through the TVand gives the Doctor a message.
Oh.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'sit. Yeah. And basically, tables don't

(51:13):
work that way. And then lateron, you see the Doctor when he starts
to doubt, reality breaks down,which is why the cup falls through
the table, because the tablebecomes, you know, a figment of,
you know, it's not reality. Sothe cup falls through. So what do
you think to those things,that fake world and this concept
of doubt and the, you know,the setup for the story?

(51:34):
Yeah, I liked all that. Ireally did. I thought it was a really
cool idea. And it's a. Youknow, it's a very simple idea of
doubt causing the sort ofworld to be fragile and stuff. So,
yeah, no, I was. I was all onboard for that, mate. I don't know
if narratively it was thateasy to follow. So, like you were
saying about your partner. Ifshe couldn't follow last week, I

(51:55):
don't think her and many othersort of casual viewers stood a chance
this week even. I was reallysort of trying to get my head around
what exactly was going on. Ithink it helped for me that I'd listened
to a couple of other podcaststhat were. Talked about it and. And
it kind of explained stuffbefore I watched it, which you shouldn't
really need to do, you knowwhat I mean? So I kind of knew what

(52:16):
the premise was going in andit did sort of flow fairly well for
me. But I would think ifyou're just a casual viewer, you
might have found yourselfgetting a bit lost in all this. It
did also feel like it didn'tpick up from last week as well. I
feel like I don't know ifstuff's going to be explained, like
the TARDIS doors blowing offand, you know, how last week's ended

(52:36):
and then this week's justpicks up from they're already in
the world and how do they. Youknow, I'm not sure if we're going
to go back and explain that orif we just got a roll with it. So,
to me, it felt a little bitdisjointed from last week's episode.
Felt. Felt like there was anepisode missing, really. But. But
no, I thought it was coolbecause it. I like it when Doctor
does weird stuff and. Andtries something different and to

(52:57):
see sort of shooting Belindaand Poppy living this life as a family
and, you know, it's all gonnabe fake and whatever, but it made
it interesting. I also liked.This will surprise you, mate. Also
liked seeing Kate Stewartdoing a different role. I actually
thought it was quite a funconcept having unit as this, you
know, whatever is meant to be,you know, so that was fun. Yeah,

(53:21):
I was. I was along for theride with the concert, mate. As I
said, I do feel it's been alittle bit ripped off from other
shows, but, hey, that happens.
Yeah. And you can definitelysee the. The comparison between WandaVision
and. But it's not the. It'sweird, isn't it? It's not the first
time we've seen that style,you know, that visual retro, 50s
style.

(53:42):
Yeah.
Thing going on. We saw itright at the beginning, didn't we,
with the Robot Revolution thathad a similar kind of thing. We described
it as like the Incrediblessort of visual vibe, isn't it? And
they seem to have played onthat a little bit. And we're back
here again with that oldclassic thing. But the whole fake
World thing set in the past.Well, visually set in the past with

(54:03):
the, the design choices. Verymarvelous. WandaVision esque. But
there was also, I know you andI mentioned this from time to time,
but there was also a littlebit of sort of social commentary,
political commentary going onas well, wasn't there?
Oh yeah.
Which was a little bit on thenose, mate, more than I thought it
was going to be.

(54:24):
Yeah.
This whole thing with, youknow, when the Doctor turns to, to
Kate's bit of stuff. Kate'sbit of stuff. What's his blood?
I don't know what his name is.That's why I said that. I can't remember
his name.
Yeah, I was going to sayConrad then. It's not Conrad, is
it? Of course it's not. It isIbrahim. Is it Colonel Christopher

(54:48):
Ebram? Is it him? Can'tremember. Anyway, he says he's a,
he's a beautiful man orsomething and he loses it. He's.
I know, you shouldn't besaying that to another man. So we've
got the sort of homophobicthings in there. We've got the, the,
the disability view of this,you know, disabled people and stuff

(55:08):
like that. You know, it's the,it's the people with disabilities
and whatnot, both mental andphysical, that are not really seen.
So they, they go about, youknow, unseen, as it were, if that
makes sense. They're all sortof confined to these little camps
and, and whatnot. They don'thave the perfect sort of family,

(55:29):
nuclear family, picket fencesort of life that a married couple
would have who are quoteunquote normal. So yeah, we do have
a bit of social commentarygoing on. So I'm not, I'm not really
sure exactly how I feel aboutthat at the moment. Maybe if you
and I do a series two, seasontwo sort of wrap up show, we can

(55:50):
go into a bit more detail. Butyeah, I'm always conflicted a little
bit with that stuff because Ifeel like on one hand it's like,
yeah, I guess, you know, it'simportant to, to, to either have
some representation for peoplewho are affected by this stuff or,
or to mention it, I'm notsure. But on the other hand I'm like,
well, I hear about all thatstuff day to day in the news and

(56:14):
it's a bit depressing andwhatnot. I kind of want to watch
Doctor who for a bit of escapism.
Yeah.
You know, and a bit of, Idon't want to have to concentrate
on, you know, social politicsand politics in general. All that
stuff. So I don't know, mate.I don't know how you feel about it,
but I'm conflicted.
I'm a bit the same. I thinkI've almost become a bit numb to

(56:34):
it in RTD's era, to be honest.It's just. I wouldn't say I've got
to the point of rolling myeyes every time we get something
shoved in like this, but it's.I don't know. I think I've just come
to accept that this is whatRTD wants to do with the show. He
wants to insert a lot of thisstuff in there, so there's no point
kind of getting annoyed aboutit. It's just, you know, that's what
he wants to do. That's. As theshowrunner. So, yeah, it was very

(56:58):
on the nose, you're right. Butit didn't really detract from the
rest of it, really, for me,anyway. And not in this one, you
know. But, yeah, it wasn'tsubtle. You're absolutely. Absolutely
right. It was, you know.
Yeah.
But, yeah, it didn't bother metoo much, mate. I think I've just.
As I said, I've just. I justknow that this is what to expect

(57:19):
from an RTD episode thesedays, to be fair.
Gotcha. Yeah, fair. That's fair.
One thing I have noticed.Well, I haven't seen anyone pick
up on me, and maybe there isnothing to pick up on, but I noticed
the baby. When it did thegiggle, did the giggle. It went.

(57:40):
So what is that? It's not the.Is the toy maker coming back as well?
Did it?
Yes. I haven't seen anyonemention this. Yeah, the baby did
the giggle. You know, the. Thething that's trapped in the algorithm.
Oh, right. Oh, really? I didn't.
I didn't pick up, which. Yeah,no, it did. Well, I haven't seen
anyone pick up, and I'mstarting to think I imagined it.

(58:02):
No, no, the. The baby, theGod. You know, the stolen.
Oh, sorry. The God baby. Yeah,I did not notice that.
No, I haven't heard anyone onany of the pods I've listened to
mention it yet, althoughthere's a couple I haven't finished,
so maybe they do. But, yeah,I'm gonna have to go back and watch
and check now because I. Ihave broken the golden rule and only
watched this once because oftime restraints. But, yeah, it did.

(58:25):
I'm pretty sure it did. Itdid. The giggle.
Hmm.
Because comrades harden. Yeah,no, I'm sure. I'm questioning myself
and I'm sure it did. There wasa scene where Conrad or the Ronnie
or someone was holding thatbaby and it did the giggle laugh.
Wow. I did notice that, mate.
I am questioning myself now.

(58:46):
The toy maker could see thereason why.
That sure might have the toymaker as well.
Well, the thing is, mate, weare talking about these gods, aren't
we? We've. That's very muchbeen the underlying kind of threat,
I guess, since season one,since Russell came back. Is this
different gods? Right. And onething that's. This. Well, one thing

(59:10):
that's really possible is thatOmega is now a God. Because Sutek
wasn't always a God, was he? Imean. I mean.
A pantheon God.
A pantheon God, should I say?Yeah, he was a God of whatever it
was back in the day. You haveto go and watch Pyramids Of Mars
for that. I can't rememberexactly what. But this new sort of

(59:33):
pantheon thing, he was just,you know, brought into that. So there's
no reason why Omega can't dothe same. But if we're talking about
a group of gods that theDoctors supposedly defeated, then
there's no reason why, youknow, any of them can't come back.
Maybe difficult for oldMister. Mister. What did you call

(59:58):
him? Ring a Ding. I can'tremember what you called him, but.
Oh, Mr. Mr. Dingaling Dingling.
Yeah. It'd be difficult forhim to come back, I think.
Yeah. Just because he canafford to do that animation again.
Yeah. I don't know. But, mate,who bloody knows at this point who
they're going to bring back?Because you could. You could. You
could leave it at a reasonableand sensible amount of things to

(01:00:21):
bring back with just the Raniand Omega. But when you consider
you've got Susan in the mix aswell, and we've got Poppy back from
space babies, which.
I did not see coming in amillion years, I cannot work out
how Poppy fits into this.She's got to be important, mate,
because the Doctor stressesPoppy is real when he's plummeting

(01:00:42):
towards the Earth. Yeah. Ifeel like she's going to be a pivotal
point of the story somewhere.
She is, mate. Defo. Yep. Andthen you've also got this mention
of Gallifrey and all thisstuff. So there's loads of things
that are being thrown backinto the. Into the cauldron. So what

(01:01:06):
magic Russell's cooking up?Who knows, mate? So the toy maker
could very well make anappearance again. Who knows?
Yeah. I mean, Rogue came backas well. I wasn't surprised to see
him. I've been expecting himto pop up again at some point.
Rogue. That section. Thatlooks bloody awful, mate. I don't
know when he's. That was likewhen you're on a zoom call with somebody

(01:01:30):
and they've got those randomweird effects in the background.
It looked like. It lookedpretty bad, that. I don't know when
that was filmed or how thatwas filmed.
But, yeah, yeah, it did lookreally ropey. I mean, again, where
is this Disney money gone?Probably on that set. But, yeah,

(01:01:50):
it did look. It did lookpretty ropey, that, didn't it?
Yeah, that bone palace, thatdid look really good.
Yeah. What were those big oldbone dinosaurs roaming around? What
were they? Yeah, I mean, theylook pretty cool, but what are they?
Well, I guess that's justsomething Conrad likes to. I don't
know.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I thinkit's just a part of Conrad's. Don't

(01:02:13):
know. But it was cool when oneof them was walking through this
little town square bit whereRuby was having a chat with somebody
and the hoof came down, butthen it was invisible almost.
Yeah, yeah.
It went sort of semitransparent and didn't harm anyone
and then just walked offagain. So. So, yeah, it's.

(01:02:35):
That's where the Disney moneyis. So, yeah, it's all in that. Actually,
Matt, what's asked you aboutthe characterization of the Rani?
Because I've seen a few peoplesay the Rani is being written to
be more like the Master thanthe Rani. I can kind of see that.
I don't. It doesn't seem. Itdidn't bother me as much as it has

(01:02:56):
some people I still saw.Sorry, what's the actress's name?
He's playing the Rani now.Archie Punjabi. I thought she was
great as the Rani and I reallylike seeing this character back.
So, as many people know, Ilove the Rani, especially Time of
the Rani. Thrilled to see aflashback to that in this as well.
So, yeah, great performancefrom her. I can see why people are

(01:03:18):
saying she's more like theMaster than the Rani, but I think
there's enough. There's enoughsimilarities between us two characters
to kind of forgive it for mepersonally. Anyway, I think so far
she's been great. But, yeah, Iwas a little worried when Maria,
our writer, put in the chatabout this line about the Rani and

(01:03:39):
the Doctor being lovers in thepast. It wasn't as bad in the episode
as I was expecting, I have totell you, because it was said in
such a way that you couldtotally write that off. You know,
people said they looked likeLovers. It doesn't mean they were.
If, if it had been somethingelse, if that had been confirmed,
I would have been like, no,no. But, yeah, it wasn't as bad as

(01:04:01):
I was expecting that. Thatparticular line. I just still didn't
particularly like it. I don'tthink it was needed. But yeah, I.
What do you think to theactual characterization of the Rani,
mate? Do you think it's. Doyou think people are right to say
that they haven't got thecharacter right? That it's. It's
just another Master clone? Youknow, it's just. It feels like the
Master, not the Rani. What doyou think?

(01:04:24):
I don't know yet. It's so.It's so. It's not a cop out, but
I'm just. Next week. So muchhinges on that.
Yeah.
So I really think I have towatch this and next week together
as a package to see. But sofar I don't. I'm not really. I think

(01:04:46):
Archie Punjabi is really goodat playing this type of. Of character.
The only thing I'm. I can't. Iwatched. Who was it that I was watching
a. Or listening to a review ofthis yesterday? I can't remember.
I'll put it in the show notesif I remember, but somebody mentioned
that this characterization isat odds with each other because on

(01:05:11):
one hand it's got that realkind of Bond villain wanting to take
over the universe. Very muchMaster vibe about them and it's just
a carbon copy of what youwould so say, for example, if this
character came back and itwasn't the Ranni, it was the Master,

(01:05:32):
that you wouldn't really needto change anything in terms of the
performance, everything. Itwould. You could get away with saying,
yep, this is how the Masterwould be. Very calculating, very
cruel, all that stuff. But onthe other hand, I felt like it was
a bit cartoonish and somebody.I honestly can't remember, they said
that this type of characterwould be really suited in the Sarah

(01:05:56):
Jane adventures. It's likethat kind of over the top, almost
like cackling away. Yeah. Abit panto. So it feels a bit like.
I don't know, it feels a bitSarah Jane in one hand, but on the
other hand it feels like justthe Master. So I'd love them to sort.

(01:06:20):
To find that middle groundbecause I think, you know, going
back to Kate o' Mara'sportrayal of the Rani, it didn't
feel like she was thatbothered about what was going on
in the rest of the. The worldor the galaxy or the universe, whatever.
You know, she wasn't really.She didn't have sort of big grand

(01:06:42):
plans like this, you know, shewas just sort of small scale, another
Time Lord. You know, shehappens to, you know, time in the
Rani. Underrated, I'm gonnasay, mate.
Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. Ilove time in the Rani. It's a lot
of fun. But I mean, I thinkthe people. People like the characterization
of the Ronnie when she doesall the experiments. And she's a

(01:07:04):
very clever character, isn'tshe? I mean, the Master's clever,
but he's also reckless. Youknow, the Rani is much more calculated.
She. She thinks everythingthrough, you know, So I think people
wanted to see maybe a littlebit more of that. I think also people
were a bit. Not surprised. Butat the start, you know, when she

(01:07:24):
turned, like, the wife intoflowers and the kids into ducks and
the husband into an owl.
That's Harry Potter, wasn't it?
Yes, again. And people weresaying, well, that's, you know, does
the Rani do that? But otherpeople have said, but then she did
turn someone into a tree inMark of the Rani. So you think, okay,
so maybe it's just anextension of that. But I get people's

(01:07:46):
concerns with it. And again,it's. This is the problem. This is
the danger when you bring backa beloved character like the Rani,
like Sutek, like Omega. Yougotta treat it. You gotta sort of
treat the source material witha bit of respect. And for me, they
haven't crossed the line withthe Rani. And I think you're right.
I think I need to wait tillnext week to see how it plays out.
I'm certainly enjoyingArchie's performance, but I do get

(01:08:11):
people where people are comingfrom. You know, the plan and the
way she's been written. Itcould. You could just put the Master
in there and take Alarani andit would be exactly the same. So
I get what people mean.
Yeah. We had a littleflashback. Russell loves a flashback,
doesn't he?
He does.
We had a little flashback toKate. Omara.
Yeah.
As the Ronnie from the bestbit of Doctor who you will ever see

(01:08:35):
in your life. You know whatI'm talking about, mate.
I do, 100% agree. Yeah.
If you've not seen Dimensionsin Time before, you've missed out
on the single best piece ofDoctor who you'll ever see.
It's something to behold,isn't it?
It is, mate. Yeah. Sointeresting that they use that clip
of her and not, you know, theMark of the Ronnie or Tommy Ronnie,

(01:09:00):
you know, any of those.
Yeah. Actually, my. This isthe problem of only watching an episode
once. I thought it was a clipfrom Time in the Rani because she
got that gun, but maybe itwas. Did they show a clip of all
three? They did, definitely.Dimensions in Time was definitely
in there because I saw peoplesay in Dimensions of Time is now
canon, so that you definitelywrite one of the clips. It was so

(01:09:23):
quick, mate. I have a feelingthey might have showed, like, one
of each story, but I might be wrong.
They probably did, mate. Yeah.
I thought I saw Time in theRani in there, but I might be getting
mixed up with, you know. Yeah.Anyway, it was great to see and like
you said, Russell loves aflashback. We also got to see some
Doctors again. This is gettinga bit. This is something else that

(01:09:43):
used to be special when you'dsee clips of previous Doctors, you
know, you'd be like, oh, wow,it's being done. It's been done a
few times now, isn't it?
Yeah, we've got quite a few.We got Paul McGann in there. All
right. Yeah. Come on, Paul.Maybe Paul McGann's back. Just bring
the whole bloody. Just bringthem all back.
I heard it. Do you know, whenRussell took over again, I heard

(01:10:09):
a rumor from someone that's, Idon't want to be one of these people.
My source told me this guy ispretty. He's. He's. A lot of what
he said's come true. And hedid tell me they were planning them
again. Spin off. It was partof Russell's great master plan when
bringing the show back, youknow, which we know he had, you know,
the whole Hooniverse thing,which is kind of crumbled around

(01:10:31):
his ears. But I have heardthat recently somebody else said,
yeah, there was a McGann spinoff plan, but because the way the
show's gone, that has beencanned now, obviously. Take a pinch
of salt. I'm not one of thesepeople that's like, I know something
you don't know. My friendstold me this. It's just rumor. But
I tell you what, mate, ifthere's even announcer truth to that,

(01:10:55):
I'm heartbroken because Ithink the one thing all Doctor who
fans pretty much or themajority of would agree on is that
we would love a McGann spinoff, you know, the 8th Doctor Adventures.
It would be super. McGannwould be phenomenal. But anyway,
it's. We can't cry over whatcould have been because it's just

(01:11:16):
rumor. But I hope that, in away, I hope it isn't true. Because
I would, for years justthought we would be amazing to have
a McGann spin off the problem.You know what? I think they're frightened
of me, if I'm absolutely,brutally honest with you. I always
think that the reason theywould Never do a McGann spin off
is because if it proved to bemore popular than the actual main

(01:11:37):
show, it would beembarrassing. And I actually think
there's a good chance of thathappening, if I'm honest. So I. I
think they're like, no, no,no, we'll leave that there, leave
that there, but give thepublic what they want.
Yeah. Do you know what, mate?This has happened with Star wars,
the Series andor.
Yeah.
And that second season that'son at the minute is just. Just brilliant

(01:11:59):
and it just fantastic. Yeah.And it's miles better than the sequel
trilogy, especially the Riseof Skywalker. Anything can beat that.
Absolute pup. But, yeah,andor's amazing. So much better than
the. The main films. You know,the main saga stuff.
Yeah.
So, yeah, you put. That'sprobably a thing. I think if there

(01:12:22):
was a McGann spin off, itwould be way better potentially than.
Do you know what, mate?Because we've only seen. I'm not
talking about the big finishstuff, but we've only seen one on
screen proper before. I'm nottalking about Night of the. Was it
Night of the Doctor? No. Whatwas the thing he was in the webisode
that.

(01:12:42):
I think it was Night.
Something like that. I'm nottalking about that. Talk about the
TV movie. Think about thehundreds of possibilities of stories
to tell between the TV movieand when he came back to regenerate
into the war Doctor. Justthink about how many. Oh, just an

(01:13:04):
infinite number of places he'sbeen to. Stories and adventures and
everything, mate. It would beso good.
And he looks so good. He's gota bit older, but he still. He's got
that sort of craggy looks. Hejust would be. It would just be brilliant.
Let's face it, he would be. Yeah.
Oh, Paul.
Russell could have been.

(01:13:24):
For the 500th time, we knowyou listen, please do this, do the
Paul McGann thing. Just dothat. You'll make everyone very happy.
I know you're going to bewatching the movie again now because
every time you mention it, itgets planted in your head and you
think, I shall feel likewatching that. You must be overdue

(01:13:44):
another yearly rewatch of thatby now.
That's coming up.
Yeah, I know. Yeah. Every timeI talk about you. Oh, yeah. I'll
watch that. I'm the same. Ilove that. I actually love the movie,
the McGahn movie.
It's.
By all its faults, I love it.
Yeah. I was just about to say,despite the reputation it's got and
despite the, you know,whatever you want to call it, I don't

(01:14:04):
know what the. The adjectiveis, but it has got a nice, you know,
a very cool feel and vibe toit. And Paul McGann is just great.
It's just such a good actor.
And just think of the music,mate. Every time I think of the movie,
I hear the music. The gorgeoussoundtrack to the TV movie.
Oh, yeah, yeah.

(01:14:26):
Talking of music, what do youreckon to old Murray Gold this week?
Old Murray Gold. I'm kind ofdone with him, mate. I really am
done with him. There's nopoint hiring Murray Gold when every
other episode just sounds likestock music. What's the point? What
is the point of having him onboard if you just go, like, from

(01:14:49):
series. From series, whateveryou want to call it, 2005, up until,
I would say, I don't know, midCapaldi, somebody could put on a
piece of music for Murraygold. And I'm 99% sure I'd have a
decent crack at telling youthe title and what series it was

(01:15:11):
from. Maybe. Probably whatepisode it was from. From Shoot his
stuff when they bought Murrayback. I have no clue. Like, if you'd
have played a. If somebodyjust pressed Play and said, right,
what episode from season twoof Shoot his era is this from? Unless
it was his, like, main. Littlebit of theme music that we've heard.

(01:15:34):
A little bit.
Yeah.
You know, with the confetticannon last week.
I know, yeah.
That bit of music. I'm nottalking about that. The other stuff,
I wouldn't have a clue, mate.No clue whatsoever.
No, I mean, this week Iwouldn't say it was bad or anything,
but you're right, nothingstood out. I can't think of anything
in it, but not saying it'sbad. Just.
Yeah, just Murray Russell forthe 500th and 501th time. 501st time.

(01:16:03):
Come on, we're giving you thisfor free, mate. Like, there's no
consultancy fee here. We'renot charging Bad Wolf or the BBC
giving us for free. Come on.
We can't bring Dudley back.He's no longer with us.
Oh, Dougie.
We could bring Segan. He mightbe waiting in the wings.

(01:16:25):
Well, the thing with Segan'smusic was that at least it was aimed
very much at providing more ofa sort of an atmospheric feeling
for the story rather thantrying to be more sort of in your
face. And because, let's behonest, mate, pretty much every week
we've said, what do you reckonto Murray's music? And we said, yeah,

(01:16:46):
nothing great. Can't remembersome of it. Some of it's all right.
But the main problem is, isthat whoever they've passing this
all onto to do the final mix,they're just screwing it up so you
can't hear what people aresaying anyway, it's a mess. The audio
side of things, that's Belinda.
Got a theme, mate. That's thething companions normally get. We
know the Doctor's got a scene,they play it every time he kicks,

(01:17:06):
you know, into it, into gear.But Belinda, I haven't picked up.
I'm sure she must have, but Idon't know.
I have no idea.
Stand out. No, dude has got atheme I love. Actually, I will say
this, I love Ruby's theme,mate. You're probably. We haven't
heard it that much, so youprobably think. I can't even think
what it is. But she played iton the piano on the rooftop, didn't

(01:17:27):
she, in Devil's Court. Now, Ido remember thinking, that was beautiful.
That was kind of cool.
Yeah, yeah. Can't think ofanything else.
Yeah. I don't know, actually,we need to speak about Belinda and
ruby. So Belinda, 10 seconds.Useless. Absolutely useless in this

(01:17:48):
one. And Verada Sethi, she'sbeen great as this character since
the start of this season, butthe writing that she's been given
in some episodes has beenweak. Like you. You were so, like.
At the beginning of thisseason, you were so like, okay, cool.
We've got a very differentdynamic with this companion. She's

(01:18:11):
not taking any of the Doctor'sbeep. She's very strong. She knows
exactly what she wants. Andthen very quickly, that started to
fall to pieces because we hadtwo problems. We had just rinse and
repeat every week where at theopening one minute of the episode,
she's stropping around,demanding that the Doctor takes her

(01:18:32):
home. Literally withinseconds, she's all smiley, ready
for an adventure. Here we go.We're outside the tardis. If the
Doctor tapped her on theshoulder and said, where you going?
Literally, moments ago, youwere. You were digging me out because
I wasn't taking you back toEarth. What's going on? I feel like

(01:18:55):
this is a bit of a yo, yosituation. You're up, you're down.
What's going on? So she'slike, that every week. And then this
week she may well have not.There was one scene. Sorry, there's
a couple of scenes. The firstone, she bolted off into the woods
and screamed, oh, yeah, thatwas it. And then. So she's got massive
doubts about what's going onbecause her. Her mum and her grand

(01:19:19):
turn up and they startquizzing each other about when Ruby
was born. That's not. Poppywas born.
Yeah.
And they can't remember. Andthe reason why they can't remember,
obviously, because it didn'texist. So all the doubts start coming
in, she runs off, she screams.She can't handle it. She comes back,
she grasses him up. Oh, yeah,she grasses the Doctor up. They come

(01:19:40):
and cut him off and then shegets cut off anyway. And that's literally
it. That's. Mate, I'm confusedabout what they're doing with her
character because at the verybeginning, the things I just said
were in play, very strong. Andthen you also had this thing about
the Doctor saying, oh, youlook just like this person that I
encountered. Yeah. And thenthat, you know, the TARDIS alarm

(01:20:02):
bells are going off. You know,there's all this great mystery, like,
who is Belinda, how they'regoing to connect it back to that
character from the previousseason and all that stuff. Where's
that gone?
Yeah, I don't know. Is that.Surely that's going to be answered
in the final, isn't it? Imean, another thing to another thread
to wrap up. I mean, I gottasay, mate, Varada Seth, who has been

(01:20:24):
severely let down by Russellin terms of the characterization
of this, you know, thischaracter, because one of the things
Russell used to be good at,mate. And I'm sure if you go back
and listen to our, you know,old podcasts, we always used to praise
Russell for great charactersand, you know, and especially when
it came to the companions.Poor old Belinda, she's so one dimensional,

(01:20:48):
I don't feel I know her atall. Could be a casualty of the eight
episodes, whatever. But evenso, mate, Russell was really let
her down in terms of, youknow, building up her character.
Because I'm not being funny, Idon't really care about Belinda as
a character. You know, eventhis mystery, like you said, is kind
of just evaporated intonothing. I do hope that gets answered

(01:21:12):
next week, mate, because ifthat's like a hangover into the third
series that may not evenhappen for two to three years, I'm
not going to be interested. SoI hope that gets wrapped up and there
is at least something to thisCharacter of Belinda. Because right
now. Yeah. There's nothing to her.
Yeah, agreed. Yeah. He's onthe phone to Moff. He's like, look,

(01:21:38):
what do I want to do withthis? I've got this companion that
I've written one line ofdialogue for.
Come on, Stephen, you've donethe mysterious mystery girl before.
What? How did you.
Yeah.
How did you answer it?
Yeah. I need to progress thischaracter, give her a bit of a unique
thing. What have you got?
Well, what you do, what youdo, Russell, is you throw her into
the TARDIS timeline,mainstream, and then the following

(01:22:01):
episode, you don't explain howthey get out, you just ignore it.
And then they are theimpossible girl. That's how you do
it.
How do they. How do they peelthe layers away when they're talking
about this stuff? Becausethere must be. There must be a point
where. I don't know, with someshows like Stranger Things does this

(01:22:22):
very well. Where they have.And I assume lots of shows have this,
where you have a properwriting group, so you have people
in a room. And when you'reworking out the structure of all
the episodes that form aseason, you have people that very,
very clued up or should be onevery single character, their history,

(01:22:44):
their backstory, how it. Howthey link to all the other things
and in the wider scope of theshow, how all these things are linked
together and how you can andcan't write certain things and all
the rest of it. It feels likewith Doctor who sometimes. Yeah.
You've just got Russell andMoff having a drunken conversation
at, like, 3 in the morning,and then there's a scribble in a

(01:23:08):
notebook that Russell wakes upto with a hangover and he's like,
oh, what was that thing hesaid? Oh, mysterious girl thing.
I'll do something with that.
It definitely feelsunderwritten, this series, doesn't
it? Well, both series,particularly. Shoot his first series,
very. Not the sort of standardwe've sort of expected from Russell.
You know, it feels a littlebit. First draft a lot of this stuff,

(01:23:30):
doesn't it?
Yeah. Such contrast, mate, toyour reviews back, like, from Eccleston
onwards. Said all the time,like, how good the characters and
how well rounded and how. Forthe most part anyway, you know, and
how well they're connectedand. And all that. And now it just
seems like we're. We're at theother end of the spectrum with that

(01:23:52):
stuff. It's very weird.
What. What about Old Rubes, then?
Yeah, so Old Rubes. I was alittle bit confused at first because
she turned up on the doctor'sdoorstep and she seemed very, very,
very confident that she knewthat the world wasn't right, that

(01:24:13):
whoever he thinks he is, he'sgot it wrong. He's actually this
other person and all thatstuff. And then fast forward five
minutes when we see her againand she's chatting away to Shirley.
Is it Shirley?
Yeah, Shirley Bingham.
Shirley Bingham. And it feelslike she's not like that anymore,
like she's questioning thingsand Shirley's like, you know, asking

(01:24:34):
her questions and they've gotthis common thing where they're.
They're seeing through thelies and they're seeing through it
or. And she can't quite put afinger on what's going on. It's like,
well, you know, five minutesago you were really clued up on what
was going on because you wentand told him, you know, that everything's
false and he's not who he sayshe is. And then we fast forward and
so again, I thought that waswritten a little bit at odds with

(01:24:56):
each other, but, I mean,Millie Gibson is playing Ruby exactly
as you'd expect her to. She'svery good at that. I think she. She's
one of the highlights of shoothis era for me. And, yeah, when she
dropped in to this, it feelslike, you know, she'd been in it
every week. You know, she'svery good actress. She just picks
the part back up and. Andshe's back into it. So she plays

(01:25:18):
it very well again, but a bitlike Belinda. I thought she was underused
a little bit. Seems like herand Shirley had this big plan in
place. They find this iPadfrom somewhere, from UNIT somewhere,
and they. They reprogram itand they see what's going on and
they've got this plan. Butagain, another thing that will be
wrapped up next week, I guess,mate. Next week, before we get back

(01:25:41):
onto your thoughts on Ruby, Ijust want to remember, I hope there's
no reset button next week.
Dude, there will be.
I hope there's not a. Theworld exploded, but now it's not.
Now it's all good.
It can't. I don't think it cando anything else. I don't. I can't
think of any other way.They're gonna. They're all gonna
wake up and it's gonna be thereal world. I don't know. I can't
see anything else. I'll bevery surprised. I'll be very impressed

(01:26:04):
if they manage to think of away around tying everything up without
doing a reset. I Just thinkit's almost inevitable. Talking of
underused. Oh, sorry, Ruby.Very good. Yeah, I agree, but I.
I hadn't thought about that.You're absolutely right. She was.
It felt like she was the onlyone who got a memory when she went
to see the Doctor, and then,yeah, later on she's sort of recognizes

(01:26:27):
Shirley Bingham and thenfinally it clicks. Oh, yeah. And
so, yeah, that didn't makesense, but I didn't pick up on that
until you mentioned it. Butyou're right. Talking of underused,
Mel, you probably forgot shewas even in it, because I did. Until
you just said the wordunderused. And I thought, oh, Mel
was in this. Let's hope shegets something to do in the final,
because all she did this weekwas put the bins out. So I. I do

(01:26:51):
hope Mel gets. You know,surely Mel's got to meet the Rani
after, you know, that's.That's got happened. Sure. That will
be such a wasted opportunityif we don't get Mel and the Ronnie
in the same room, you know,after time in the Rani. Come on.
Yeah, surely what's going tohappen is there's going to be a.
There'll be an epic showdownwith Omega, the toy maker, the Ronnie,

(01:27:17):
and on the other side, theDoctor will fashion some kind of
thing and it'll be, you know,in Avengers Endgame, when all the
allies come through theportals and there. Big epic music,
you know, we'll have all theprevious Doctors come through the
portals and all thecompanions, and there'll be a big
showdown and then. Becausethat. The name of the next episode's

(01:27:39):
the reality War, isn't it?Yeah. And then there'll be a big
showdown and then there'll bea big reset and then it'll be like,
ah, none of that reallyhappened. It's a junior moment from
Dallas. Is it Dallas?
Dallas, yeah. Well, it's Bobbyin the shower.
Yeah, Bobby.
Sorry, from Dallas.
Yeah, that's right.
I can absolutely see itcoming, mate. I got. I got visions

(01:28:01):
of him, you know, theVindicator has been used as the clock
arm, hasn't it? Yeah. Which Ithought was a really cool idea. I'm
questioning everything now. Ireally wish I'd given this a second
watch. I got visions of theDoctor ripping that off the wall
and resetting it all, orgrabbing the baby and making a wish.
I don't know, something. It'sgonna be. It's gonna be a reset.
I'm almost certain. As I said,if it isn't, I'll be very impressed.

(01:28:22):
But I can't see any other wayaround that. You can't be in a imaginary
world and not wake up by theend of it.
So, yeah, he'll put someshades on. He'll use that as a guitar.
Oh.
And then we're off to the races.
All I can say is we've got aheck of a lot to tie up next week.
Russell. I think we've got anextra 10 minutes. Am I right in saying

(01:28:43):
it's a slightly longer episodenext week?
Yes.
Yep, Yep. That extra 10minutes has got a lot of work to
do. That's all I'm saying.
We wait with. I think, yeah.To be honest with you, mate, regardless
of your feelings, not, youknow, you specifically, but fandom's
feelings on this particularepisode in the season, I do think

(01:29:04):
that, you know, we're all.We're all really waiting to see what's
going on, that it has done agood job of setting up next week's
episode. So I think we're allquite intrigued to find out exactly
what's going to go on with allof these things. I mean, I can't
remember a time where thereare so many questions that remain
unanswered going into afinale, mate. So we wait with bated

(01:29:27):
breath, you know.
Well, I am. I'm excited forit, I have to say, considering how,
you know, I've been feelingabout Doctor of late, I haven't exactly
been chewing at the bit towatch the episode when they drop
every week, I have to behonest. But I am looking forward
to next week, mate. So I justhope it delivers on some level. I'm
not, you know, I just. Justwant to walk away from it saying,

(01:29:49):
yeah, that, that was allright, but I don't know. We'll see.
We shall see.
We shall find out.
We will. Yeah. So tune in,obviously, next week for our review
of. Of the reality war everhappens with that. God. Right. Is
there anything else on yournotes, dude?

(01:30:10):
No, I don't think so. I thinkwhatever happens next week, mate,
we're gonna have a lot to talkabout. But, no, I think I'm done
on my notes.
The only thing I've got lefton my notes, just very, very quickly,
are two things. One was Conradand his. His use of the. The God
of wishes, the baby. The babyis still a baby. So I'm assuming

(01:30:35):
that by the time when theRonnie went and kidnapped the baby
and killed the family,everything has happened really quickly
to now, because.
Oh, yeah, I suppose so, yeah.
Yeah. Because it felt like allthe people in this. In the wish world,
it felt like this was theirsort of norm, day to day life. But

(01:30:58):
I get the impression thatthat's all been set up really quickly.
So that was interesting. Thatseems like it's all happened very
quickly because it's still alittle baby. And the second thing
was Anita Dobson's performanceof the Rani is very, very interesting

(01:31:18):
in terms of. I. I like whatyou said earlier about is she gonna
turn and, you know, defectover to the goodies to help take
down this other version of theRonnie. Because there's something
about her, although she's alittle bit sinister when she's talking
to Conrad, she's like, would Ilie? Yes, I would. But in this instance,
you know, so she's got thatkind of sinister nature about her.

(01:31:42):
But she's obviously not asintense and as scheming and grand
planning as the other Rani,so. But I thought her performance
was good, though. I've enjoyedseeing Anita Dobson as the Rani.
Yes. I like it, mate. It's areal contrast between the two Ranis.
I mean, obviously, you know,the most recent one feels like the
Rani that we're used to, butit is a nice double act, I think,

(01:32:04):
these two. I hope there'senough room in the final for their,
you know, this double actorbrief. I hope they get some good
scenes together because theyare great when they're together,
whether they're being sort ofcomedic or whether they're being
villainous. They both seem tobe able to play. Play that both parts
well. So I'm hoping we get abit more from them next week together.

(01:32:28):
Yeah. And I'm putting money onit that she'll turn on her. I don't
know why. I just get thisfeeling she's Feels like. I think
that's why she's been made tobe the underdog. She's gonna have
a bit. Be. Have enough ofbeing pushed around, I think. And
I would like to see Brian Maypop up as well. Just. Just throw
him into the mix as well. Why not?
He'll take the Vindicator offthe wall and use it.
Start playing at guitar. Thatwould be. I'd actually love that.

(01:32:50):
Make it happen. Russell.
Russell, for the 502nd time.We can't keep doing this, mate. We're
gonna have to bill you at some point.
I know.
Come on.
Yeah.
All right. Let's put somescores on this bad boy.
Whose turn is it first?
It's you to go first, mate.
Oh, no, I. I was hoping itwasn't. I'm a little Bit torn on
my score, mate.

(01:33:11):
Do you want me to go while youthink about it?
Go on. Yeah.
So I'm gonna give this a 7 outof 10. I'm giving it a 7 because
for the most part I thought itwas a reasonably good watch. I think
it falls apart in some areasbecause like I said at the beginning,

(01:33:32):
not a great deal of substancehappens, really. I think it serves
its purpose very well as asetup episode into part two, which
is weird because in the past Ithink some of the. The first parts
in the two part finale havebeen better than the second part
in some ways, but the reversein this case, conceptually. Some

(01:33:54):
great stuff. It looks visuallyfantastic. Some of the performances
were really cool. Just areally wacky, strange, great idea,
you know, and all that stuff.But it does fall apart in some other
area. So I can't really go anyhigher than that. But it wasn't a
bad watch for me, mate. Itwasn't an amazing watch, wasn't a
bad watch, it was just a goodwatch. So I'm gonna land on a seven

(01:34:18):
for it. What about you?
Well, yeah, that's made mylife easy, mate, because I'd written
seven. If I was on thecountdown now, I'd be showing my
pad to Susie Dent just toprove it. But no, I'd written seven.
And the reason I wasquestioning it is because, well,
basically what you said Ithought, you know, it did didn't
really hold together that wellin some parts, but I did enjoy it.

(01:34:40):
So I wasn't sure if it was a6.5, but I wrote 7. You've given
it 7. I'll give it a 7.
I'll give it a seven. Okay,so. Oh, I don't know where our score's
gonna go next week, dude.Honestly, out of every episode this
season so far, next week isgoing to be either, I think an absolute

(01:35:02):
genius episode with ninesacross the board with everybody,
or it's going to be anabsolute beep show. We've got to
be back to fours and fives,maybe less, who knows? But there
is a lot of pressure on nextweek, let's be honest.
There's a lot of pressure,mate. And for. For lots of reasons

(01:35:22):
as well. This is the lastepisode of Doctor who we're going
to get in a while. Yeah, it'sgot a lot of weight on his shoulders.
I really hope it doesn'tcollapse under that weight.
Let's see, let's see. And Ithink, okay, so a seven from me,
a seven from him. And on thatnote, let's end it there, dude, for
a longer than usual episode of 426.

(01:35:46):
Alrighty.

(01:36:12):
Thank you, thank you. Thankyou very much for listening to another
episode of the Big Blue Boxpodcast. That was 426 and our review
of Wish World. Sevens allround. Not bad scores there at all.
We'd love to hear what youguys think. Let us know over on the
socials. You can find us justby searching for the Big Blue Box
on We're on X or Twitter,bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, hit

(01:36:36):
us up. Let us know what youthink or jump into the discord. There
are links to all these thingsover on the website bigbluebox podcast.co.uk.
while you're there, you canlisten to the episodes for free and
you can check out the reviewsand articles from the writing team.
So get involved. Honestly,we'd love to hear what you guys thought
of this one. Next week we'llbe back obviously at some point in
the week to give you ourthoughts on the reality war, the

(01:36:57):
finale to see season two andas we mentioned, a real high pressure,
interesting story to see howthey tie all of this stuff up in
a neat little bow. Also makesure you are following or subscribing
in your preferred podcastpodcast app of choice. That way you
won't miss an episode when itlands and you get notified when they

(01:37:17):
do drop. And yeah, we justlove to have you listening along
as we chat all things Doctorwho. We also do a monthly roundtable
with the the writing teamwhere we get all those to get all
those guys together and justchat about anything to do with Doctor
who. It's a good laugh. Soyou'll get all those as well. Don't
forget to check out my co hostchannel over on YouTube. It's called
the Geeks Handbag.

(01:37:37):
Yes, I have a YouTube channelcalled the Geeks Handbag. Go check
it out. Lots of geekery stuffon there. Also on all the socials
known as the Geeks Handbag.
Indeed. Go and stalk him for abit. How? Right, until next week
then. Dude. My name's Garry.My name's Adam and remember. God,

(01:38:10):
I keep swearing. Oh, I've noteven had a drink either. I've only
had a cup of tea. Right, editthat out.

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