January 19, 2025 • 45 mins
From astronaut to presidential candidate, Barbie's 250-plus professions mirror the evolving landscape of women's roles in society.
Barbie doll has become a cultural icon over her 65 years, reflecting the evolution of women's roles and careers. Through her myriad professions, Barbie inspires children to dream big and showcases the importance of representation, creativity, and empowerment in society.
Join Barbie doll expert Bradley Justice Yarbrough and host Louisa Maxwell as they chart Barbie’s 65 years as a pop culture icon.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the Doll Podcast.
I'm your host, louisa Maxwell.
Barbie has spent 65 years onthe career ladder and although
she has reached an age when mostpeople contemplate retirement,
barbie is showing no signs ofslowing down.
(00:34):
She has soared through over 250professions on her career path
from teen model to astronaut.
To discuss Barbie's manypursuits, my guest is Bradley
Justice Yarbrough, author andexpert on all things Barbie doll
.
Bradley has amassed animpressive archive of firsthand
(00:57):
interviews and accounts of thestory behind the creation of
this pop culture legend.
Bradley, welcome once again tothe Doll Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Louisa, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Bradley, it's so great to talk to you again.
I've been really lookingforward to this because these
anniversaries come up and I cannever believe it when I hear
Barbie is 65 years old.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
She's forever young, but it's hard to believe that
the brand has just endured forsuch a long period of time.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Barbie's story starts in 1959 with Ruth Handler of
Mattel and her inspiration tocreate a fashion doll for a new
generation of girls.
Her doll, Barbie, became one ofthe best-selling toys in the
world.
Perhaps one of the keys toBarbie's long career is her
ability to mirror fashioned andsocial trends.
(01:50):
Bradley, Barbie may be only afashion doll, but her huge
wardrobe contains the stuffdreams are made of.
I mean, Barbie can be anythingBallerina, nurse, vet, doctor,
flight attendant, Air Forcepilot, race car driver, and even
Barbie for president.
Bradley, do you agree thatBarbie has reflected the change
(02:11):
in women's career options overthe decades?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Absolutely.
I think if you could onlychoose one word to describe
Barbie, it would be evolution.
She's evolved over decades toreflect our culture, our society
and women in general, so it'san amazing transformation from
the humble beginnings to what wesee today.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Bradley, Barbie may be only a fashion doll, but her
huge wardrobe contains the stuffdreams are made of.
Barbie can be anything.
Bradley, do you agree thatBarbie has reflected the change
in women's career options overthe decades?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Absolutely.
If I could just use one word todescribe the decades of change
with Barbie, it would beevolution.
She's evolved ever since herintroduction to reflect exactly
what options were available forwomen, from the very humble
beginnings to now.
It just has just evolved tototally mirror what we are
(03:10):
experiencing in the real world.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I played with Barbie as a child.
You know kind of the 70s, andnow I love collecting 70s kind
of.
I call it Mary Tyler MooreBarbie.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oh yeah, I love that era.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And Mary Tyler Moore was a symbol.
You know Oprah Winfrey talksabout this.
Oh yeah, happen to thatcharacter, and so it's wonderful
when a doll reflects women'salmost struggle to want to be
different things.
Mary Tyler Moore starts out,she's high school prom queen
cheerleader and then, as youchart her career over those, I
(04:00):
think is it seven seasons.
I think it's about sevenseasons.
Yeah, if I've got that wrong,I'm sorry, but I think it's
about that.
I think so you know it developsand she's able to take charge of
her life more and more.
And I wonder you know Barbiewasn't afraid to explore all the
high school tropes, and thenshe went on to look at all the
different career options.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Those early days with Barbie, there was a constant
reflection of what was what thejob, jobs that were available
for the women of the time.
It was nurse, secretary, youknow, teacher.
It was just that was what womenwere, were, were given as job
opportunities.
As it has evolved, we reallyjust kind of see the more
(04:42):
opportunities women had werereflected in Barbie.
And then also, I think Barbiejust created this sort of
aspirational moment, just likewith the Mary Tyler Moore or
anything that you saw a womanachieve.
Suddenly Barbie could do it too, and so she was a nurse in 1961
.
In 1973, she was actually asurgeon.
(05:03):
They actually did an outfitwith the medical scrubs and the
x-rays and stuff.
So just in a little under 10years you see the evolution of
not only thinking of a woman asa nurse but also thinking of a
woman as a doctor.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And of course it's wonderful to be a nurse.
It's a fantastic profession.
But we see on TV in the 60s,you know all those TV shows that
used to be on Marcus, welby, md, dr Kildare.
The nurses used to come in inthose very fitted costumes just
like Barbie had, and they werean important part of the medical
(05:38):
team.
But the doctor was the man, wasthe leader, and of course there
were women surgeons and womendoctors at that time.
But we've grown in awareness.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Then through the right direction, right.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's taken quite a bit of time for us to
acknowledge that as a society.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Absolutely.
It was unheard of in those daysto think of some of these jobs
or roles Air Force, pilot,anything that you know that a
woman could do something likethat.
And in our society we've kindof moved beyond that and see
that as it's not an unusual orabstract thing to see a woman in
some of these roles.
And so I think that Barbie mayhave been the tool for kids to
(06:21):
kind of say one day I can growup and do anything.
And that was one of themonikers that they used in the
80s with their advertising waswe girls can do anything right,
barbie.
And so I think you know, justkind of planting that seed of
sort of positivity and ambitionmay have helped a lot of young
women go over that hurdle andbecome whatever they wanted to
(06:44):
be.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, it's so important in the formative years
that you feel that you havetoys that are supporting you to
take a leading role.
Because, after all, if we lookat the history of the 20th
century, amelia Earhart, allthese great aviatrixes that were
in the 20s and the 30s andthroughout the 20th century and
women flew bombers from place toplace during the war.
(07:07):
When they had to move planesaround, they'd fly.
So women actually have beendoing these roles for a long
time and it's important when westart to recognize them and give
positive messages out to girlsand say, by the way, this is out
there, this is an option foryou.
And when we play with our dolls.
(07:27):
So if I go back to the days ofour Barbie Playhouse and Cindy
Playhouse, we always playedcharacters.
Barbie usually had the starringrole.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It was you using your imagination to bring all of
this to life.
It was that sort of thing ofsomething had inspired you.
You had seen something that youreferenced, and then you played
that out with your dolls, usingthem as a tool to kind of
communicate and pretend to talkto each other.
It was an amazing play patternof pretend that was helping you
(08:00):
to form yourself to what youwould be when you grew up.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
When we look at Barbie's first career-themed
costumes way back in 1959 wereCommuter Set, solo in the
Spotlight, american AirlinesJuror Desk, and we mentioned
Registered Nurse.
And although these do reflect,maybe, that women were a little
bit limited, they are stillcareers to dream on, to soar
(08:24):
into the sky and to be airlinestewardess and to travel the
world and to see differentcultures and communities I mean
that's an amazing thing and totake charge of the care and
safety of all those passengers.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It may seem like a you know well big deal flight
attendant, but at the time thatwould have been such an amazing
career of wearing the cutelittle uniform and flying on a
Boeing airplane from destinationto destination and really
seeing the world.
And it was the dream of travel.
It was the dream of adventure.
(08:58):
And what an adventurous lifeall of those stewardess, now
called flight attendants, werehaving in the 60s when Barbie
was a thing.
I just think it was anopportunity for a person of the
time to kind of get out ofpodunk nowhere and see the world
.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And then, of course, Barbie in 1965, she reaches now
for the stars as an astronaut,although NASA did not recruit
women until 1978.
So Barbie got there first.
Do you think Barbie was daringto go where no doll had gone
before, to use a Star Trekreference?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I do love that.
Well, I think it was at thetime in the 60s space travel and
getting to the moon andorbiting the Earth, and all of
that was just so in the news andon TV and all of the shows like
Lost in Space.
It was just such a part of ourculture.
So, of course, if someone wasgoing to outer space, you know
(09:58):
Barbie was going to be one tomake that journey, and I think
it was, at the moment,aspirational that one day there
would be women astronauts, therewould be women in space, and it
may have taken, you know, 13years to catch up, but I think
they have far exceeded theirexpectations and so I think you
(10:19):
know, let's just say Barbie wasthe first female astronaut.
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Let's just say Barbie was the first female astronaut.
So I love that.
I think so because at the timeI can remember programs like
Star Trek, which treated womenas part of the crew and dynamic
parts of the crew with you knowimportant roles to play.
So when you can play outsomething with your doll where
she also has a scientific roleand will go into space and has
(10:46):
skills and responsibilities, youknow, the outer space, the
astronaut, the Star Trek.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It was fantasy, it was something that we may have
never experienced, but it wasdeep-seated in the dream and the
idea and the hope for thefuture, and I think that's once
again using the imagination andliving in someone else's
imagination.
It's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And that's what toys and play is really about just
using our imagination,experimenting and pushing the
envelope a little bit.
Well, barbie, of course, didstart to really push the
envelope and by the 1980s shedecided to get herself a power
suit.
Like every woman in the 80s, nomatter what you did, you had to
(11:32):
have those big Joan Crawfordshoulder pads and a really great
suit that fitted really well,because you were thinking about
Dynasty and Dallas and all thosekind of powerful women, alexis
Carrington.
So Barbie called her look dayto night.
And by day Barbie wore a pinkpower suit because she loves the
(11:55):
color pink, and once her lastmeeting of the day was done, she
whipped off her jacket toreveal a pink glitter strappy
top which she paired with a pinkchiffon skirt and heels.
It had great play value.
But, Bradley, do you think itgave children an unrealistic
picture of the work-life balance?
You know, work all day, partyall night.
(12:17):
I mean she must have beenexhausted.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well, I remember in my younger sort of like early
20s, I might could have donethat, but oh my gosh, it sounds
so exhausting today.
But that really kind of putBarbie in a position of the
executive, the businesswoman.
That particular doll DayTonight Barbie was designed by
Kitty Black Perkins, who, kittywas so famous for the
(12:42):
transformative costume she didPretty Changes, barbie Golden
Dream, barbie Pink and PrettyBarbie, where there were all of
these pieces and parts that youcould change.
But to take the doll from allthe business-y kind of executive
things we were seeing in all ofthose TV shows you described,
but then being able to transformit into this beautiful, you
(13:04):
know, sort of like cocktailoutfit with the glitter and
everything it was adding playvalue to the doll.
But it was also reflective ofwhat we were seeing on TV and
how all of these people thatwere wearing these shoulder
padded linebacker suits werethen, you know, having cocktails
with their friends, you know,at the hotel bar.
(13:25):
So I mean it was veryreflective of the 80s and
unrealistic.
I always say you know what itwas fantasy and to me it was
amazing.
She also had this cute littlespectator pumps which were just,
you know, so adorable.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I love them.
The pink and white, oh, I lovethem.
And then of course, thebriefcase and this kind of big
hat.
But you know it had to work onBarbie, so I think they did a
great job and you could tilt itto one side and she had great
hair, beautiful smile.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So chic, so chic.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
No, it had great play value.
You mentioned Kitty BlackPerkins there and she designed
Black Barbie, which is such abeautiful doll and a great
favourite of mine, and she wasalso introduced in the 1980s
along with a Hispanic Barbiedoll to represent the diversity
of children who wanted to seethemselves as Barbie.
Did you see the Netflixdocumentary discussing the
(14:27):
impact the doll had?
I was so moved by the variouswomen who spoke about wanting to
be able to identify and seedolls that represented them.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I did see that and it was a very, very moving
documentary.
I I so enjoyed it.
It was interesting to see howpeople viewed it and how they
shared their experiences ofgrowing up and I just feel that
Kitty Black Perkins came at theright time and at the right
place at Mattel to be theperfect person to design the
(15:04):
first Black Barbie, which was1980.
And it's hard to believe that atthat point we had existed 21
years without a Black Barbie.
We did have Barbie friends andwe had Christy and Kara, but
this was the first doll that wasnamed Barbie, and hearing Kitty
describe how she created thisdoll that she really wanted to
represent the African Americancommunity was it was just
(15:28):
absolutely touching.
I will say my takeaway from thedocumentary and my favorite
person on there because not todiminish Kitty, because I
absolutely love her, she's oneof the most wonderful people in
the world was Beulah Mitchellthat was hired at Mattel like in
the late 50s and then had awhole career and just kind of
saw as an adult saw how Barbieitself evolved and how she was
(15:53):
so excited to see that finally aBarbie represented her and sort
of became a collector de facto,just watching this all unfold
in front of her.
I just thought that was justreally a great sort of insight
as to how important thediversity was in the brand.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So important and it represents our friendship groups
.
It represents what's real whenwe're children.
We're surrounded by differentcultures and we mustn't forget
also Julia, one of my absolutefavorite dolls in the Barbie
family.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Absolutely and one of my favorite on television as a
successful career woman and notin some moment of servitude or
(16:51):
something.
It was amazing.
Diane Carroll was absolutelygorgeous and I just love that
show.
What an absolute amazing momentand I'm so grateful that Mattel
immortalized that moment withthat doll.
It's just so incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's an amazing moment in our pop culture,
history and the way Barbie isreflecting these memories, these
important moments.
Julia as this great characteron TV, a great mom, this life
she built, how responsible shewas, how practical she was, how
skilled she was.
And the doll, and again it addsreality to your play pattern
(17:31):
and adds this element of that.
Your imagination is runningthis really great story and you
know I'm a little bit it's hardfor me to kind of express how
much it meant to me at the timeand what a great memory it is
for me as a kid.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Oh see, that's so amazing.
I love that and I love hearingthe stories of how people were
watching that show and how itwas inspiring them.
I actually have a friend wholiterally decided to become a
nurse because of that watchingthat show as a child.
So it was like exposure tobeing a nurse and still being
glamorous.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So I totally, I totally agree.
You were thinking about whatwould I do, what will I do with
my life?
And you want to see womenrepresented on TV, and that's
the important thing.
I just thought of Julia as awoman represented on TV and a
woman I admired.
And then when the doll came out, oh I like her, I want this
(18:30):
doll, and she was kind of don'ttell Barbie.
But for a while Julia was moreimportant.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But let's not, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Julia got to be the head nurse.
Barbie was just student nurseBarbie.
But you know, that's how kidsplay and that's how they work
out all the different roles thatthey're interested in, and
that's what's important aboutthese dolls.
Of course, in the middle of allthese wonderful professions
we're discussing and all thesewonderful innovations, we can't
(19:00):
forget Barbie's role as afashion icon, because, no matter
what she did, all thesemarvelous jobs in style but she
hasn't just done that.
She's inspired top designers.
I mean Dior, vivienne Westwood,bob Mackie, valentino, oscar de
la Renta, pucci, gautier I mean, if you just kept naming
(19:22):
designers, probably they've donesomething for Barbie.
What is it about this 11 and ahalf inch doll that has inspired
so many haute couture creations?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
How could you not be inspired by Barbie?
She's, you know, absoluteperfection.
And I just think you know, in1984, when Oscar de la Renta
teamed up with Mattel to createthose series of fashions, it was
just a moment.
They actually created life-sizefashions that were worn by
(19:53):
Hollywood stars in a fashionshow at Toy Fair.
I mean, it was covered on allthe news networks.
It was like a moment that hereis a designer designing for
Barbie and it just sort ofsnowballed from there.
And there have been so manydesigners that have directly or
indirectly been involved.
In 1986, a gentleman namedBilly Boy published a book that
(20:17):
was Barbie, her Life and Times,and at the time, he was living
in One of my favorite books.
Oh, me too.
I absolutely adore that book.
That can be my bedtime storyanytime.
It's just so soothing to lookat all of this beautifulness in
that book.
But he was friends with all ofthese haute couture designers in
Paris and he had so many ofthem design clothing for Barbie
(20:38):
and they did a specialexhibition in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And Yves Saint Laurent and Garo Everybody
dressed Barbie in that but thenmany of them have gone on in
today's world and createdspecial edition Barbies.
Givenchy, Oscar de la Rentacame back and did another stint.
There's been Vera Wang, I mean.
All of these fabulous designershave done this and I think it's
(21:03):
a great opportunity to createyour own fabulous expression for
the brand.
However, that brand connectiondelivers a lot of press and a
lot of attention to your brand.
So I mean what a greatconnection.
So I see it as win-win for bothbrands, but I love that my
Barbie gets to have a fabulousdesigner wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It's wonderful and you can buy a designer piece at
an affordable price.
When can you buy Chanel, oh?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
exactly Recently.
They partnered with the YvesSaint Laurent Museum and they
did a series of dolls thatrepresented his entire career,
from the Mondrian dress to thesafari.
Look to the fabulous 80sglamour.
And those dolls were just liketiny little perfect mannequins
(21:55):
right off the runaway.
The garments were so to scaleand so amazing.
All the accessories were justlike what they were supposed to
be.
It was really, reallyincredible.
So I love that there's thatattention to detail and you get
a miniature Mondrian dress byYves Saint Laurent.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
So the designers are inspiring people to take Barbie
that little bit further andenjoy her that bit more.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I need to also interject that not only have
designers inspired Barbie, butit was just a few years back
that Barbie inspired designersbecause Jeremy Scott from
Moschino did a whole collectionthat was Barbie inspired.
All of those 80s and 90s Barbielooks suddenly were walking
down the runway in haute couturestyle, so it was really kind of
(22:42):
fashion coming full circle forBarbie.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And Barbie also made it to Fashion Week in New York
just a few years ago and all thedesigners reimagined some of
her famous costumes.
It's such a salute to herstatus as a miniature fashion
icon, but also as a piece of popculture.
Definitely Thinking of theBilly Boy book, one of the
(23:07):
pictures I love in that book isAndy Warhol's representation of
Barbie.
So she is a pop culture icon.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And these beautiful, fashionable garments just add to
the enjoyment of the doll.
It's just incredible andcollecting the doll.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
What would be your favorite designer to collect?
Who's done something for Barbie?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I really did love the Yves Saint Laurent collection
and I think I loved it becauseI've always been a fan of Saint
Laurent and when I was in schooland I wrote a paper about how
art had influenced fashion and Ifocused on late 20th century
with the Mondrian dress thatYves Saint Laurent had done and
(23:59):
then how he evolved into usingmany of these sort of
impressionistic paintings forsequined and beaded jackets.
So I absolutely adore thatcollection.
But the Lagerfeld Barbie is aclose second, which was just so
rare, so unusual, so everythingabout that doll was kind of
(24:19):
amazing to me.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
My favorite one is the Westwood Barbie, Because I
love that.
She really gave Barbie her look.
You know immediately it'sVivian Westwood.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I adore Vivian Westwood.
I just love her.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love her, I love her work.
It's just the best.
I think that's what's greatabout Barbie she gets us into
fashion in different ways and wecan celebrate things we're
interested in.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
There's such a visual of seeing Barbie as a child and
seeing it as that tool offantasy the fashion, the glamour
, the bride, the prom dress, andthen growing up and getting to
have those same or similarexperiences and then being able
to remember that I pretendedthis when I was a child and now
(25:08):
here I am experiencing this and,for me, the formative years of
growing up and playing dolls andplaying Barbie, and then,
because we played with Barbie inthe country camper, in the
backyard and she was going tothe Grand Canyon, you know it's
so funny to imagine all of thatas a kid, but then as an adult,
to get to actually, you know,get in a camper and go to the
(25:29):
Grand Canyon, like I said, itcomes full circle.
You get to kind of enjoy thatfantasy that becomes reality.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And you get to be the person who's choosing where you
go or what to do or what careeryou're going to take up, and
you know these are games youplayed as a kid.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Exactly, and what you just said, louisa, is one of
the things that Ruth Handlersaid that Barbie always
represented the fact that awoman has a choice and you're
pretending this what you want todo as a kid, and then you get
to do it as an adult if youchoose to do that.
So travel and glamour andwedding, all of these things it
(26:04):
was such an amazing.
Barbie was such an amazing toolto have this play pattern that
kind of taught you what youwanted to be when you grew up.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
You can play with Barbie at any age.
You know, I'm still playingwith Barbie.
I find it very relaxing.
It's cheaper than therapy.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm still playing with Barbie.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Mattel are commemorating Barbie's 65th
anniversary with some amazing,beautifully dressed dolls, and
they launched a diverse list ofcollectible dolls to celebrate
Barbie's many professions, butalso celebrating some beautiful
fashion moments.
So there's singer Kylie Minogue, actress Dame Helen Mirren,
(26:50):
bestselling author and activistViola Davis, singer-songwriter
Shania Twain, and that's just afew of the dolls.
There's several more, but everyone of them is wearing amazing
costume that the celebrity hasworn.
It's a wonderful link.
I think they've actually donethat whole career thing and
(27:12):
given it a beautiful twistcelebrity doll, fashion doll
career.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I think it's so amazing to see these celebrities
sort of brought to life inthese one-of-a-kind dolls that
some of them, I hope, willbecome a collector-produced doll
.
But they do, these wonderfulone-of-a-kind dolls as inspiring
women and it's always great tosee who gets made up in one
sixth scale.
I visited Mattel this summerand was at the Design Center and
(27:42):
when you walk down a hallwaythey've got photographs of all
of the celebrities that havebeen immortalized as a Barbie
and it was just so amazing allthe way from Twiggy all the way
to the most recent ones thatyou've mentioned.
It's really incredible and Ireally like seeing that as part
of the brand.
(28:03):
Here are these amazing womendoing amazing things, yet they
see the importance at beingimmortalized in such a way that
a child or a collector orwhatever can see that sort of
moment you know being in time,that they were so important that
they got a Barbie of themselves, and that they see that as sort
of like a moment.
It's like, well, I really haveachieved something because they
(28:26):
made a Barbie of me.
I think it's just really,really cool to think that, as a
celebrity, that you would beimmortalized as a Barbie.
I just think that's great.
Barbie inspires, these ladiesinspire.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I just think it's a great moment I agree with you,
and the dolls are beautifullysculpted.
Which one are you going tocollect?
All of them, or is there onespecial one you'd like?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
oh, I would love to have the kylie minogue one.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Thank you I would love to have the kylie.
I think it's the outfit fromPadam the video and it's
beautiful with all that chiffonand the way it moved in the
video.
It's a very theatrical pieceand she is such a great
performer and also a survivorand she's just somebody who's a
(29:11):
really good example, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Such an inspiration.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
She is an inspirational woman.
And then, of course, you can'tViola Davis that is the most.
That's the first one I'mrunning to get, because it's
just such a beautiful doll.
Helen Mirren.
I mean, they're all beautiful.
Shania is terrific.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I adore Helen Mirren.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Me too, and it's a great dress.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Oh, the dress is gorgeous.
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So I think it's really fun that Mattel has kind
of crossed also a boundary herewith there'll be people who
collect the Kylie doll, whomightn't have that big an
interest in Barbie or dolls butthey're Kylie fans and they'd be
like I have to have this doll.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
And that's one of the things that Mattel has been
able to do over the last 20years that they spent the first
part of their brand not is thatwith every big epic movie or
every big moment in pop, theycan create a barbie of that
actress?
I mean they did this with withtwilight and and so many other
major movies where they createdthis, and it was a collector's
(30:15):
item intended for an adultcollector, so it was a thing of
like maybe you're not a Barbiecollector, but you like what
they've just produced, and soit's it's.
It represents options, and Ilove options.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Options are wonderful .
And then if you are somebodycollecting it for the movie, for
Harry Potter, for whateveryou're collecting it for, or my
favorite dolls the Gone with theWind dolls and the dolls really
represented the costumesbeautifully.
So Barbie constantly chartsthese great moments in cinema,
in music and now in literature,and it really does add an awful
(30:52):
lot to collecting Barbie and, aswe've said, brings other people
into the whole collectingfamily, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely, and it's reflective, and they've gone
back in history.
They did the Gone with the Wind, they did Breakfast at
Tiffany's with Audrey Hepburnand replicated her Givenchy
wardrobe.
So they've done all of thesemoments that were just so
incredible and they continue todo them.
So it's like whenever there'sgoing to be a big, fabulous
(31:20):
movie coming out, I always hopethey're going to do a line of
Barbies to represent that aswell.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You know when I think about collectible Barbie.
I think one of the biggestmoments for me as a Barbie
collector when I began tocollect was way back when.
Do you remember when theinternet was just dial up?
You know to go definitely you'dbe there and it would take so
long to hook up that I'd oftenbe reading a magazine.
(31:49):
I'd be reading Barbie Bazaar orWoman's Day.
I'd be waiting for the thing toconnect, and I remember the
first thing in an internet cafethat I searched for, you know
was I was interested in findingout did other people collect
Barbie?
I was in the UK at the time andthere was some Barbie clubs
(32:09):
down in London, but that was faraway from me, and I found a
whole community of interestingpeople on the internet and, of
course, now, today, this podcastis on the internet.
So I mean, definitely, barbiehas become a phenomenon, an
internet phenomenon across theglobe and, of course, she became
(32:29):
an influencer in 2014.
Although I have to say I thinkBarbie's been an influencer
since her launch in 1959.
I will agree with that,definitely.
Her Instagram has 2.8 millionfollowers.
I mean, that is serious.
How do you think social mediahas shaped our view of Barbie
(32:50):
doll?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Well, it's really.
Social media has really givenan opportunity to be very
intimate and personal withBarbie, and they've kind of
developed the Barbie styleInstagram as if she's a person
and they present her day-to-daylife and I was so excited when
(33:11):
they did that and it was justincredible and continues to be
incredible.
They create these immaculateminiature sets and clothing.
They do this a lot of customclothing that I just wish they
could just package it and sellit, and I understand that it's
impossible, but they've donesuch amazing things and it's
really been a great way for acollector or someone that's just
(33:34):
stylish to see what Barbie's upto.
And it's really been an amazinggreat way with social media the
YouTubes, the Instagram,facebook.
Mattel has really brought itright to us and it's just been
another way to kind of keep meintrigued by the brand.
It constantly inspires me, itconstantly reminds me that
(33:58):
Barbie is so amazing, so I justlove that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I love it too, and I also love the way the dolls
inspire people to create theirown photographs and to create
their own miniature sets.
And now there's people creatingfashions.
There's on Instagram.
There's various people givingadvice on photography.
It just inspires so muchcreativity and allows people to
(34:24):
talk and share and growcommunities in a positive way
all just having some fun with adoll it's given.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
It's given so much opportunity for people to use
their creativity and to play.
I actually have a friend whotook her favorite Barbie,
created a whole story pattern,told the story in photographs.
Everyone was intrigued infollowing it.
Then she actually had a wedding.
She did like the whole weddingalbum online and I mean people
(34:55):
were just chomping at the bit,waiting for the next sort of
thing she would do and it wasimagination mixed with play and
then but she was sharing it witheveryone and it was so
incredible and that's how I see,like the Barbie style Instagram
.
It's like we are getting topeek into this amazing pretend
world and be inspired by it, andI will say it does inspire me.
(35:16):
I would love to spend hours andhours and hours a day if I had
the time to create amazing setsand garments and photographs.
It's just so amazing.
I just adore it.
If you're not following it, youshould be following it?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Oh, you should, because it's fun and it's
creative and it's innovative.
And I often wonder is it theBarbie looks?
Dolls are the ones that arejust that bit more sophisticated
and very poseable, and I thinkthey're the dolls who translate
very well into dressing andposing and doing various things,
and they're more sophisticatedthan the pink box dolls.
(35:52):
And so I see kind ofinfluencing maybe, the way
Mattel is viewing Barbie.
They're making a moresophisticated, more model-type
doll that fits into thisuniverse.
I love when people, forinstance, they take a silk stone
doll and they dress it up in avintage outfit and you get this
just whole other juxtaposition.
(36:14):
Or if they're creating fashions.
It's just so much fun to seewhat people can come up with.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
And the doll is the starting point, the doll is the
inspiration doll is theinspiration it's, you know,
she's the basis of it, she's thebuilding block that everything
gets layered upon, and it's justso incredible.
In 2020, I was invited to Matteland I toured the design center
and at the time, the Instagramcloset was in one of the
cubicles in the design centerand so they opened up like a
(36:45):
couple of drawers so I could seewhat I was in there and the
custom stuff and everything, andI literally was just like blown
away and I was like, oh my God,I just wanted to stay in that
cubicle all day long, openingevery drawer and looking at
everything.
And it was vintage mixed withcustom, which was mixed with
regular line and all thedifferent shoes.
It was just absolutely dreamyand I was like, can we just pick
(37:06):
this up and take this back toNorth Carolina with me?
I just want all of this, and Ithink what was funny is pretty
much a lot of what they had inthere I probably already had in
my collection, but the waythey're presenting it, the way
they're doing it, it's just,it's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know you've inspired me because that would
be a great idea.
You get yourself a bookcase,you know, from certain Swedish
manufacturers which areavailable worldwide.
And you customize it becausethey're always doing that on
Instagram and they'recustomizing, but you customize
(37:41):
it for Barbie and it would be somuch fun because you could
actually make your collectionmore accessible.
And I often get frustrated withthat as a collector, because I
have things in boxes, I havethings in doll trunks, I have
things and just to findsomething now I have sticky
labels, you know post-it noteson everything so.
I'll know where everything iswhen we want to do photographs
(38:04):
for the podcast.
One of my favorite, just toshare.
One of my favorite things thathappened to me as a doll
collector was in a beautifulshop in Paris and I had just
visited Samio Dan's museum and Iwent to a wonderful shop run by
a lady called Marie-Claude andshe had drawers full of and she
(38:26):
was like no, go look throughthem.
And I bought my first Frenchfashion doll and accessories and
I still have everything and Istill have the doll, a beautiful
little jumeau, and it wasextraordinary.
So those clothes came from 1870, about that circa, and Barbie
(38:48):
may be bang up to date, but itstill has the same joy of all
these little things, all theselittle pieces and how they all
come together and that again,it's your imagination, brings
them all together, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And what you described to me opening up the
antique doll trunk or opening upthe drawer that's filled with
clothing and accessories it'slike, just kind of like opening
up your mind and giving yourbrain the opportunity to create
what you wanted to do and topair the accessory with the
fashion and decide what hat.
That was happening in the 1850s, 60s and 70s.
(39:26):
And then the same thing ishappening today.
You're opening up that vinylBarbie case or, by today's
standards, maybe plastic andpulling out your doll and the
outfits and the accessories andplaying, and that's whether
you're a seven-year-old girl orboy or, you know, in my thing, a
54-year-old man opening up thatcase.
It's giving you permission tohave fun, to play, to enjoy and
(39:50):
to dream, and I love that.
This just gives you thepermission to be that dreamer.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It's so true, we can talk about Barbie being
inspirational or a career rolemodel, but in the end she's
really just a doll, and once shecomes out of the box, that's
when the person playing with herdecides what she becomes.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
That person gets to decide and chooses the future of
that doll, creates that playpattern, creates that fantasy,
and that is so much what RuthHandler imagined that through
the doll they could always justpretend anything that the little
girl could dream or little boycould dream through this doll of
(40:36):
what their future held and theywere making choices and making
decisions that would laterimpact their world and they were
playing with this doll andcreating their future.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
It's true, and it lets you try on different ideas.
I mean, I didn't turn out to bea dog groomer, even though
that's the game I used to playwith my Barbies but I was trying
out different things and thatis what these little play sets
do for children but for adultplay.
For example, because of aconversation I had with you on a
(41:09):
podcast, my husband bought methe vintage dress shop for
Christmas last year and that hasbrought me more joy.
We found it at the wonderfulshop of Manfred Reichel in
Vienna, austria, who has themost extraordinary doll shop
Everybody should go there andreally beautiful and he's a
(41:29):
great expert.
And I said, manfred, what's upon the shelf?
And my husband bought it.
And I think I've mentioned thisbefore on the podcast.
But the joy and sometimes now Ihave a little bit of fun
because I was reading abiography about Mary Quant and
so maybe I stock the shop alittle bit like it's a shop in
(41:49):
the late 50s but it's movinginto the 60s and you know I'm
planning to photograph all this,but it takes time to do all
these things, but it's soinspiring to have some fun with
something from the 50s and 60sand get to put your own spin on
it.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I love that whole play pattern and even with you
as an adult setting up the shop,decorating it, dressing the
mannequin in the window, it'sjust so much and it's
transformative.
It probably takes you back toyour childhood of going to a
little dress shop with your momwhen she was looking for
something for a party andprobably at that moment dreaming
(42:30):
that one day you'd grow up andget to pick out a beautiful
dress to wear to a party.
What an amazing opportunity.
And for me, that sort of playpattern as a grown-up, getting
to do the thing of imagining,and it's stress relief.
It's, you know, it's taking mybrain out of the real crazy
world we're living in and takingme to this world where there's
(42:52):
no stress and there's no dramaand there's no, and it's just
setting up the Barbie dreamhouse the way that I want it,
putting the clothes in thecloset the way they should be,
and then dressing the dolls howthey need to be dressed and then
taking photographs and sharingthose photographs online or
something.
The one thing I always say aboutthe play and collecting and
(43:13):
researching and sharing.
At the end of the day, I'vebecome a doll collector and the
dolls I seem to be collectingnow are people, because I always
say, oh, you're a doll, but youknow what?
The community around mecontinues to inspire me.
The community around mecontinues to inspire me and the
community that we built is fullof amazing, kind, fabulous,
(43:39):
sharing people.
And it's such a great andwelcoming community to be a part
of the doll collectingcommunity, the Barbie collecting
community.
It's just, it's powerful toknow that there are so many
like-minded people that areenjoying the same thing you're
enjoying and that you can shareit with them.
And I think back to the daysbefore the internet and, as you
described, the crazy dial-updays of trying to connect with
people.
And now, with social media,it's such a great opportunity to
(44:02):
connect and just be in themoment of 65 amazing years of
Barbie.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
It is 65 wonderful years of play and fun for so
many people.
Bradley, nobody could say itbetter than you just said it.
Happy birthday, Barbie.
65 fabulous years.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Bradley, thank you so much for joining us on the Doll
Podcast and also I'd like totake the opportunity to thank
you for all your articles, yourmuseum presentations, the
research you do to chart BarbieDoll and the way she reflects
history, fashion and pop culture.
Also the way you piece togetherresearch and you interview so
(44:48):
many people for that research.
You know Mattel employees andvisit Mattel, and this is a very
the Bradley archives are a veryimportant resource for history,
not just for doll collectors.
So I'm really thrilled everytime you share this with us and
also we always have so much funwhen we do this.
(45:10):
It's really, really enjoyable.
Thank you, bradley.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Louisa, it is always a pleasure, absolutely a
pleasure.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So happy birthday, barbie, and thank you, bradley,
for joining us on the DollPodcast.
The Doll Podcast is created byniche media productions.
Our music is by celticconspiracy.
Copyright louisa maxwell, 2024.
(45:40):
All rights reserved.
To find out more about the dollpodcast, go to our website on
wwwdollpodcastcom.
You can also find us onFacebook and Instagram as the
Doll Podcast.
We look forward to welcomingyou next time.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Doll Podcast.
I'm your host, louisa Maxwell.
Barbie has spent 65 years onthe career ladder and although
she has reached an age when mostpeople contemplate retirement,
barbie is showing no signs ofslowing down.
(00:34):
She has soared through over 250professions on her career path
from teen model to astronaut.
To discuss Barbie's manypursuits, my guest is Bradley
Justice Yarbrough, author andexpert on all things Barbie doll
.
Bradley has amassed animpressive archive of firsthand
(00:57):
interviews and accounts of thestory behind the creation of
this pop culture legend.
Bradley, welcome once again tothe Doll Podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Louisa, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Bradley, it's so great to talk to you again.
I've been really lookingforward to this because these
anniversaries come up and I cannever believe it when I hear
Barbie is 65 years old.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
She's forever young, but it's hard to believe that
the brand has just endured forsuch a long period of time.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Barbie's story starts in 1959 with Ruth Handler of
Mattel and her inspiration tocreate a fashion doll for a new
generation of girls.
Her doll, Barbie, became one ofthe best-selling toys in the
world.
Perhaps one of the keys toBarbie's long career is her
ability to mirror fashioned andsocial trends.
(01:50):
Bradley, Barbie may be only afashion doll, but her huge
wardrobe contains the stuffdreams are made of.
I mean, Barbie can be anythingBallerina, nurse, vet, doctor,
flight attendant, Air Forcepilot, race car driver, and even
Barbie for president.
Bradley, do you agree thatBarbie has reflected the change
(02:11):
in women's career options overthe decades?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Absolutely.
I think if you could onlychoose one word to describe
Barbie, it would be evolution.
She's evolved over decades toreflect our culture, our society
and women in general, so it'san amazing transformation from
the humble beginnings to what wesee today.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Bradley, Barbie may be only a fashion doll, but her
huge wardrobe contains the stuffdreams are made of.
Barbie can be anything.
Bradley, do you agree thatBarbie has reflected the change
in women's career options overthe decades?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Absolutely.
If I could just use one word todescribe the decades of change
with Barbie, it would beevolution.
She's evolved ever since herintroduction to reflect exactly
what options were available forwomen, from the very humble
beginnings to now.
It just has just evolved tototally mirror what we are
(03:10):
experiencing in the real world.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I played with Barbie as a child.
You know kind of the 70s, andnow I love collecting 70s kind
of.
I call it Mary Tyler MooreBarbie.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oh yeah, I love that era.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
And Mary Tyler Moore was a symbol.
You know Oprah Winfrey talksabout this.
Oh yeah, happen to thatcharacter, and so it's wonderful
when a doll reflects women'salmost struggle to want to be
different things.
Mary Tyler Moore starts out,she's high school prom queen
cheerleader and then, as youchart her career over those, I
(04:00):
think is it seven seasons.
I think it's about sevenseasons.
Yeah, if I've got that wrong,I'm sorry, but I think it's
about that.
I think so you know it developsand she's able to take charge of
her life more and more.
And I wonder you know Barbiewasn't afraid to explore all the
high school tropes, and thenshe went on to look at all the
different career options.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Those early days with Barbie, there was a constant
reflection of what was what thejob, jobs that were available
for the women of the time.
It was nurse, secretary, youknow, teacher.
It was just that was what womenwere, were, were given as job
opportunities.
As it has evolved, we reallyjust kind of see the more
(04:42):
opportunities women had werereflected in Barbie.
And then also, I think Barbiejust created this sort of
aspirational moment, just likewith the Mary Tyler Moore or
anything that you saw a womanachieve.
Suddenly Barbie could do it too, and so she was a nurse in 1961
.
In 1973, she was actually asurgeon.
(05:03):
They actually did an outfitwith the medical scrubs and the
x-rays and stuff.
So just in a little under 10years you see the evolution of
not only thinking of a woman asa nurse but also thinking of a
woman as a doctor.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And of course it's wonderful to be a nurse.
It's a fantastic profession.
But we see on TV in the 60s,you know all those TV shows that
used to be on Marcus, welby, md, dr Kildare.
The nurses used to come in inthose very fitted costumes just
like Barbie had, and they werean important part of the medical
(05:38):
team.
But the doctor was the man, wasthe leader, and of course there
were women surgeons and womendoctors at that time.
But we've grown in awareness.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Then through the right direction, right.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's taken quite a bit of time for us to
acknowledge that as a society.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Absolutely.
It was unheard of in those daysto think of some of these jobs
or roles Air Force, pilot,anything that you know that a
woman could do something likethat.
And in our society we've kindof moved beyond that and see
that as it's not an unusual orabstract thing to see a woman in
some of these roles.
And so I think that Barbie mayhave been the tool for kids to
(06:21):
kind of say one day I can growup and do anything.
And that was one of themonikers that they used in the
80s with their advertising waswe girls can do anything right,
barbie.
And so I think you know, justkind of planting that seed of
sort of positivity and ambitionmay have helped a lot of young
women go over that hurdle andbecome whatever they wanted to
(06:44):
be.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Yeah, it's so important in the formative years
that you feel that you havetoys that are supporting you to
take a leading role.
Because, after all, if we lookat the history of the 20th
century, amelia Earhart, allthese great aviatrixes that were
in the 20s and the 30s andthroughout the 20th century and
women flew bombers from place toplace during the war.
(07:07):
When they had to move planesaround, they'd fly.
So women actually have beendoing these roles for a long
time and it's important when westart to recognize them and give
positive messages out to girlsand say, by the way, this is out
there, this is an option foryou.
And when we play with our dolls.
(07:27):
So if I go back to the days ofour Barbie Playhouse and Cindy
Playhouse, we always playedcharacters.
Barbie usually had the starringrole.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
It was you using your imagination to bring all of
this to life.
It was that sort of thing ofsomething had inspired you.
You had seen something that youreferenced, and then you played
that out with your dolls, usingthem as a tool to kind of
communicate and pretend to talkto each other.
It was an amazing play patternof pretend that was helping you
(08:00):
to form yourself to what youwould be when you grew up.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
When we look at Barbie's first career-themed
costumes way back in 1959 wereCommuter Set, solo in the
Spotlight, american AirlinesJuror Desk, and we mentioned
Registered Nurse.
And although these do reflect,maybe, that women were a little
bit limited, they are stillcareers to dream on, to soar
(08:24):
into the sky and to be airlinestewardess and to travel the
world and to see differentcultures and communities I mean
that's an amazing thing and totake charge of the care and
safety of all those passengers.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
It may seem like a you know well big deal flight
attendant, but at the time thatwould have been such an amazing
career of wearing the cutelittle uniform and flying on a
Boeing airplane from destinationto destination and really
seeing the world.
And it was the dream of travel.
It was the dream of adventure.
(08:58):
And what an adventurous lifeall of those stewardess, now
called flight attendants, werehaving in the 60s when Barbie
was a thing.
I just think it was anopportunity for a person of the
time to kind of get out ofpodunk nowhere and see the world
.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And then, of course, Barbie in 1965, she reaches now
for the stars as an astronaut,although NASA did not recruit
women until 1978.
So Barbie got there first.
Do you think Barbie was daringto go where no doll had gone
before, to use a Star Trekreference?
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I do love that.
Well, I think it was at thetime in the 60s space travel and
getting to the moon andorbiting the Earth, and all of
that was just so in the news andon TV and all of the shows like
Lost in Space.
It was just such a part of ourculture.
So, of course, if someone wasgoing to outer space, you know
(09:58):
Barbie was going to be one tomake that journey, and I think
it was, at the moment,aspirational that one day there
would be women astronauts, therewould be women in space, and it
may have taken, you know, 13years to catch up, but I think
they have far exceeded theirexpectations and so I think you
(10:19):
know, let's just say Barbie wasthe first female astronaut.
So I love that.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Let's just say Barbie was the first female astronaut.
So I love that.
I think so because at the timeI can remember programs like
Star Trek, which treated womenas part of the crew and dynamic
parts of the crew with you knowimportant roles to play.
So when you can play outsomething with your doll where
she also has a scientific roleand will go into space and has
(10:46):
skills and responsibilities, youknow, the outer space, the
astronaut, the Star Trek.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It was fantasy, it was something that we may have
never experienced, but it wasdeep-seated in the dream and the
idea and the hope for thefuture, and I think that's once
again using the imagination andliving in someone else's
imagination.
It's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
And that's what toys and play is really about just
using our imagination,experimenting and pushing the
envelope a little bit.
Well, barbie, of course, didstart to really push the
envelope and by the 1980s shedecided to get herself a power
suit.
Like every woman in the 80s, nomatter what you did, you had to
(11:32):
have those big Joan Crawfordshoulder pads and a really great
suit that fitted really well,because you were thinking about
Dynasty and Dallas and all thosekind of powerful women, alexis
Carrington.
So Barbie called her look dayto night.
And by day Barbie wore a pinkpower suit because she loves the
(11:55):
color pink, and once her lastmeeting of the day was done, she
whipped off her jacket toreveal a pink glitter strappy
top which she paired with a pinkchiffon skirt and heels.
It had great play value.
But, Bradley, do you think itgave children an unrealistic
picture of the work-life balance?
You know, work all day, partyall night.
(12:17):
I mean she must have beenexhausted.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Well, I remember in my younger sort of like early
20s, I might could have donethat, but oh my gosh, it sounds
so exhausting today.
But that really kind of putBarbie in a position of the
executive, the businesswoman.
That particular doll DayTonight Barbie was designed by
Kitty Black Perkins, who, kittywas so famous for the
(12:42):
transformative costume she didPretty Changes, barbie Golden
Dream, barbie Pink and PrettyBarbie, where there were all of
these pieces and parts that youcould change.
But to take the doll from allthe business-y kind of executive
things we were seeing in all ofthose TV shows you described,
but then being able to transformit into this beautiful, you
(13:04):
know, sort of like cocktailoutfit with the glitter and
everything it was adding playvalue to the doll.
But it was also reflective ofwhat we were seeing on TV and
how all of these people thatwere wearing these shoulder
padded linebacker suits werethen, you know, having cocktails
with their friends, you know,at the hotel bar.
(13:25):
So I mean it was veryreflective of the 80s and
unrealistic.
I always say you know what itwas fantasy and to me it was
amazing.
She also had this cute littlespectator pumps which were just,
you know, so adorable.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I love them.
The pink and white, oh, I lovethem.
And then of course, thebriefcase and this kind of big
hat.
But you know it had to work onBarbie, so I think they did a
great job and you could tilt itto one side and she had great
hair, beautiful smile.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So chic, so chic.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
No, it had great play value.
You mentioned Kitty BlackPerkins there and she designed
Black Barbie, which is such abeautiful doll and a great
favourite of mine, and she wasalso introduced in the 1980s
along with a Hispanic Barbiedoll to represent the diversity
of children who wanted to seethemselves as Barbie.
Did you see the Netflixdocumentary discussing the
(14:27):
impact the doll had?
I was so moved by the variouswomen who spoke about wanting to
be able to identify and seedolls that represented them.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I did see that and it was a very, very moving
documentary.
I I so enjoyed it.
It was interesting to see howpeople viewed it and how they
shared their experiences ofgrowing up and I just feel that
Kitty Black Perkins came at theright time and at the right
place at Mattel to be theperfect person to design the
(15:04):
first Black Barbie, which was1980.
And it's hard to believe that atthat point we had existed 21
years without a Black Barbie.
We did have Barbie friends andwe had Christy and Kara, but
this was the first doll that wasnamed Barbie, and hearing Kitty
describe how she created thisdoll that she really wanted to
represent the African Americancommunity was it was just
(15:28):
absolutely touching.
I will say my takeaway from thedocumentary and my favorite
person on there because not todiminish Kitty, because I
absolutely love her, she's oneof the most wonderful people in
the world was Beulah Mitchellthat was hired at Mattel like in
the late 50s and then had awhole career and just kind of
saw as an adult saw how Barbieitself evolved and how she was
(15:53):
so excited to see that finally aBarbie represented her and sort
of became a collector de facto,just watching this all unfold
in front of her.
I just thought that was justreally a great sort of insight
as to how important thediversity was in the brand.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So important and it represents our friendship groups
.
It represents what's real whenwe're children.
We're surrounded by differentcultures and we mustn't forget
also Julia, one of my absolutefavorite dolls in the Barbie
family.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Absolutely and one of my favorite on television as a
successful career woman and notin some moment of servitude or
(16:51):
something.
It was amazing.
Diane Carroll was absolutelygorgeous and I just love that
show.
What an absolute amazing momentand I'm so grateful that Mattel
immortalized that moment withthat doll.
It's just so incredible.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
It's an amazing moment in our pop culture,
history and the way Barbie isreflecting these memories, these
important moments.
Julia as this great characteron TV, a great mom, this life
she built, how responsible shewas, how practical she was, how
skilled she was.
And the doll, and again it addsreality to your play pattern
(17:31):
and adds this element of that.
Your imagination is runningthis really great story and you
know I'm a little bit it's hardfor me to kind of express how
much it meant to me at the timeand what a great memory it is
for me as a kid.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Oh see, that's so amazing.
I love that and I love hearingthe stories of how people were
watching that show and how itwas inspiring them.
I actually have a friend wholiterally decided to become a
nurse because of that watchingthat show as a child.
So it was like exposure tobeing a nurse and still being
glamorous.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
So I totally, I totally agree.
You were thinking about whatwould I do, what will I do with
my life?
And you want to see womenrepresented on TV, and that's
the important thing.
I just thought of Julia as awoman represented on TV and a
woman I admired.
And then when the doll came out, oh I like her, I want this
(18:30):
doll, and she was kind of don'ttell Barbie.
But for a while Julia was moreimportant.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
But let's not, you know.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Julia got to be the head nurse.
Barbie was just student nurseBarbie.
But you know, that's how kidsplay and that's how they work
out all the different roles thatthey're interested in, and
that's what's important aboutthese dolls.
Of course, in the middle of allthese wonderful professions
we're discussing and all thesewonderful innovations, we can't
(19:00):
forget Barbie's role as afashion icon, because, no matter
what she did, all thesemarvelous jobs in style but she
hasn't just done that.
She's inspired top designers.
I mean Dior, vivienne Westwood,bob Mackie, valentino, oscar de
la Renta, pucci, gautier I mean, if you just kept naming
(19:22):
designers, probably they've donesomething for Barbie.
What is it about this 11 and ahalf inch doll that has inspired
so many haute couture creations?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
How could you not be inspired by Barbie?
She's, you know, absoluteperfection.
And I just think you know, in1984, when Oscar de la Renta
teamed up with Mattel to createthose series of fashions, it was
just a moment.
They actually created life-sizefashions that were worn by
(19:53):
Hollywood stars in a fashionshow at Toy Fair.
I mean, it was covered on allthe news networks.
It was like a moment that hereis a designer designing for
Barbie and it just sort ofsnowballed from there.
And there have been so manydesigners that have directly or
indirectly been involved.
In 1986, a gentleman namedBilly Boy published a book that
(20:17):
was Barbie, her Life and Times,and at the time, he was living
in One of my favorite books.
Oh, me too.
I absolutely adore that book.
That can be my bedtime storyanytime.
It's just so soothing to lookat all of this beautifulness in
that book.
But he was friends with all ofthese haute couture designers in
Paris and he had so many ofthem design clothing for Barbie
(20:38):
and they did a specialexhibition in the 80s.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
And Yves Saint Laurent and Garo Everybody
dressed Barbie in that but thenmany of them have gone on in
today's world and createdspecial edition Barbies.
Givenchy, Oscar de la Rentacame back and did another stint.
There's been Vera Wang, I mean.
All of these fabulous designershave done this and I think it's
(21:03):
a great opportunity to createyour own fabulous expression for
the brand.
However, that brand connectiondelivers a lot of press and a
lot of attention to your brand.
So I mean what a greatconnection.
So I see it as win-win for bothbrands, but I love that my
Barbie gets to have a fabulousdesigner wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It's wonderful and you can buy a designer piece at
an affordable price.
When can you buy Chanel, oh?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
exactly Recently.
They partnered with the YvesSaint Laurent Museum and they
did a series of dolls thatrepresented his entire career,
from the Mondrian dress to thesafari.
Look to the fabulous 80sglamour.
And those dolls were just liketiny little perfect mannequins
(21:55):
right off the runaway.
The garments were so to scaleand so amazing.
All the accessories were justlike what they were supposed to
be.
It was really, reallyincredible.
So I love that there's thatattention to detail and you get
a miniature Mondrian dress byYves Saint Laurent.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
So the designers are inspiring people to take Barbie
that little bit further andenjoy her that bit more.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And I need to also interject that not only have
designers inspired Barbie, butit was just a few years back
that Barbie inspired designersbecause Jeremy Scott from
Moschino did a whole collectionthat was Barbie inspired.
All of those 80s and 90s Barbielooks suddenly were walking
down the runway in haute couturestyle, so it was really kind of
(22:42):
fashion coming full circle forBarbie.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
And Barbie also made it to Fashion Week in New York
just a few years ago and all thedesigners reimagined some of
her famous costumes.
It's such a salute to herstatus as a miniature fashion
icon, but also as a piece of popculture.
Definitely Thinking of theBilly Boy book, one of the
(23:07):
pictures I love in that book isAndy Warhol's representation of
Barbie.
So she is a pop culture icon.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And these beautiful, fashionable garments just add to
the enjoyment of the doll.
It's just incredible andcollecting the doll.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
What would be your favorite designer to collect?
Who's done something for Barbie?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
I really did love the Yves Saint Laurent collection
and I think I loved it becauseI've always been a fan of Saint
Laurent and when I was in schooland I wrote a paper about how
art had influenced fashion and Ifocused on late 20th century
with the Mondrian dress thatYves Saint Laurent had done and
(23:59):
then how he evolved into usingmany of these sort of
impressionistic paintings forsequined and beaded jackets.
So I absolutely adore thatcollection.
But the Lagerfeld Barbie is aclose second, which was just so
rare, so unusual, so everythingabout that doll was kind of
(24:19):
amazing to me.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
My favorite one is the Westwood Barbie, Because I
love that.
She really gave Barbie her look.
You know immediately it'sVivian Westwood.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And I adore Vivian Westwood.
I just love her.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
I love her, I love her work.
It's just the best.
I think that's what's greatabout Barbie she gets us into
fashion in different ways and wecan celebrate things we're
interested in.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
There's such a visual of seeing Barbie as a child and
seeing it as that tool offantasy the fashion, the glamour
, the bride, the prom dress, andthen growing up and getting to
have those same or similarexperiences and then being able
to remember that I pretendedthis when I was a child and now
(25:08):
here I am experiencing this and,for me, the formative years of
growing up and playing dolls andplaying Barbie, and then,
because we played with Barbie inthe country camper, in the
backyard and she was going tothe Grand Canyon, you know it's
so funny to imagine all of thatas a kid, but then as an adult,
to get to actually, you know,get in a camper and go to the
(25:29):
Grand Canyon, like I said, itcomes full circle.
You get to kind of enjoy thatfantasy that becomes reality.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
And you get to be the person who's choosing where you
go or what to do or what careeryou're going to take up, and
you know these are games youplayed as a kid.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Exactly, and what you just said, louisa, is one of
the things that Ruth Handlersaid that Barbie always
represented the fact that awoman has a choice and you're
pretending this what you want todo as a kid, and then you get
to do it as an adult if youchoose to do that.
So travel and glamour andwedding, all of these things it
(26:04):
was such an amazing.
Barbie was such an amazing toolto have this play pattern that
kind of taught you what youwanted to be when you grew up.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
You can play with Barbie at any age.
You know, I'm still playingwith Barbie.
I find it very relaxing.
It's cheaper than therapy.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
I'm still playing with Barbie.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Mattel are commemorating Barbie's 65th
anniversary with some amazing,beautifully dressed dolls, and
they launched a diverse list ofcollectible dolls to celebrate
Barbie's many professions, butalso celebrating some beautiful
fashion moments.
So there's singer Kylie Minogue, actress Dame Helen Mirren,
(26:50):
bestselling author and activistViola Davis, singer-songwriter
Shania Twain, and that's just afew of the dolls.
There's several more, but everyone of them is wearing amazing
costume that the celebrity hasworn.
It's a wonderful link.
I think they've actually donethat whole career thing and
(27:12):
given it a beautiful twistcelebrity doll, fashion doll
career.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I think it's so amazing to see these celebrities
sort of brought to life inthese one-of-a-kind dolls that
some of them, I hope, willbecome a collector-produced doll
.
But they do, these wonderfulone-of-a-kind dolls as inspiring
women and it's always great tosee who gets made up in one
sixth scale.
I visited Mattel this summerand was at the Design Center and
(27:42):
when you walk down a hallwaythey've got photographs of all
of the celebrities that havebeen immortalized as a Barbie
and it was just so amazing allthe way from Twiggy all the way
to the most recent ones thatyou've mentioned.
It's really incredible and Ireally like seeing that as part
of the brand.
(28:03):
Here are these amazing womendoing amazing things, yet they
see the importance at beingimmortalized in such a way that
a child or a collector orwhatever can see that sort of
moment you know being in time,that they were so important that
they got a Barbie of themselves, and that they see that as sort
of like a moment.
It's like, well, I really haveachieved something because they
(28:26):
made a Barbie of me.
I think it's just really,really cool to think that, as a
celebrity, that you would beimmortalized as a Barbie.
I just think that's great.
Barbie inspires, these ladiesinspire.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I just think it's a great moment I agree with you,
and the dolls are beautifullysculpted.
Which one are you going tocollect?
All of them, or is there onespecial one you'd like?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
oh, I would love to have the kylie minogue one.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Thank you I would love to have the kylie.
I think it's the outfit fromPadam the video and it's
beautiful with all that chiffonand the way it moved in the
video.
It's a very theatrical pieceand she is such a great
performer and also a survivorand she's just somebody who's a
(29:11):
really good example, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Such an inspiration.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
She is an inspirational woman.
And then, of course, you can'tViola Davis that is the most.
That's the first one I'mrunning to get, because it's
just such a beautiful doll.
Helen Mirren.
I mean, they're all beautiful.
Shania is terrific.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
I adore Helen Mirren.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Me too, and it's a great dress.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Oh, the dress is gorgeous.
It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
So I think it's really fun that Mattel has kind
of crossed also a boundary herewith there'll be people who
collect the Kylie doll, whomightn't have that big an
interest in Barbie or dolls butthey're Kylie fans and they'd be
like I have to have this doll.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
And that's one of the things that Mattel has been
able to do over the last 20years that they spent the first
part of their brand not is thatwith every big epic movie or
every big moment in pop, theycan create a barbie of that
actress?
I mean they did this with withtwilight and and so many other
major movies where they createdthis, and it was a collector's
(30:15):
item intended for an adultcollector, so it was a thing of
like maybe you're not a Barbiecollector, but you like what
they've just produced, and soit's it's.
It represents options, and Ilove options.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Options are wonderful .
And then if you are somebodycollecting it for the movie, for
Harry Potter, for whateveryou're collecting it for, or my
favorite dolls the Gone with theWind dolls and the dolls really
represented the costumesbeautifully.
So Barbie constantly chartsthese great moments in cinema,
in music and now in literature,and it really does add an awful
(30:52):
lot to collecting Barbie and, aswe've said, brings other people
into the whole collectingfamily, which is nice.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Absolutely, and it's reflective, and they've gone
back in history.
They did the Gone with the Wind, they did Breakfast at
Tiffany's with Audrey Hepburnand replicated her Givenchy
wardrobe.
So they've done all of thesemoments that were just so
incredible and they continue todo them.
So it's like whenever there'sgoing to be a big, fabulous
(31:20):
movie coming out, I always hopethey're going to do a line of
Barbies to represent that aswell.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
You know when I think about collectible Barbie.
I think one of the biggestmoments for me as a Barbie
collector when I began tocollect was way back when.
Do you remember when theinternet was just dial up?
You know to go definitely you'dbe there and it would take so
long to hook up that I'd oftenbe reading a magazine.
(31:49):
I'd be reading Barbie Bazaar orWoman's Day.
I'd be waiting for the thing toconnect, and I remember the
first thing in an internet cafethat I searched for, you know
was I was interested in findingout did other people collect
Barbie?
I was in the UK at the time andthere was some Barbie clubs
(32:09):
down in London, but that was faraway from me, and I found a
whole community of interestingpeople on the internet and, of
course, now, today, this podcastis on the internet.
So I mean, definitely, barbiehas become a phenomenon, an
internet phenomenon across theglobe and, of course, she became
(32:29):
an influencer in 2014.
Although I have to say I thinkBarbie's been an influencer
since her launch in 1959.
I will agree with that,definitely.
Her Instagram has 2.8 millionfollowers.
I mean, that is serious.
How do you think social mediahas shaped our view of Barbie
(32:50):
doll?
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Well, it's really.
Social media has really givenan opportunity to be very
intimate and personal withBarbie, and they've kind of
developed the Barbie styleInstagram as if she's a person
and they present her day-to-daylife and I was so excited when
(33:11):
they did that and it was justincredible and continues to be
incredible.
They create these immaculateminiature sets and clothing.
They do this a lot of customclothing that I just wish they
could just package it and sellit, and I understand that it's
impossible, but they've donesuch amazing things and it's
really been a great way for acollector or someone that's just
(33:34):
stylish to see what Barbie's upto.
And it's really been an amazinggreat way with social media the
YouTubes, the Instagram,facebook.
Mattel has really brought itright to us and it's just been
another way to kind of keep meintrigued by the brand.
It constantly inspires me, itconstantly reminds me that
(33:58):
Barbie is so amazing, so I justlove that.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
I love it too, and I also love the way the dolls
inspire people to create theirown photographs and to create
their own miniature sets.
And now there's people creatingfashions.
There's on Instagram.
There's various people givingadvice on photography.
It just inspires so muchcreativity and allows people to
(34:24):
talk and share and growcommunities in a positive way
all just having some fun with adoll it's given.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
It's given so much opportunity for people to use
their creativity and to play.
I actually have a friend whotook her favorite Barbie,
created a whole story pattern,told the story in photographs.
Everyone was intrigued infollowing it.
Then she actually had a wedding.
She did like the whole weddingalbum online and I mean people
(34:55):
were just chomping at the bit,waiting for the next sort of
thing she would do and it wasimagination mixed with play and
then but she was sharing it witheveryone and it was so
incredible and that's how I see,like the Barbie style Instagram
.
It's like we are getting topeek into this amazing pretend
world and be inspired by it, andI will say it does inspire me.
(35:16):
I would love to spend hours andhours and hours a day if I had
the time to create amazing setsand garments and photographs.
It's just so amazing.
I just adore it.
If you're not following it, youshould be following it?
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Oh, you should, because it's fun and it's
creative and it's innovative.
And I often wonder is it theBarbie looks?
Dolls are the ones that arejust that bit more sophisticated
and very poseable, and I thinkthey're the dolls who translate
very well into dressing andposing and doing various things,
and they're more sophisticatedthan the pink box dolls.
(35:52):
And so I see kind ofinfluencing maybe, the way
Mattel is viewing Barbie.
They're making a moresophisticated, more model-type
doll that fits into thisuniverse.
I love when people, forinstance, they take a silk stone
doll and they dress it up in avintage outfit and you get this
just whole other juxtaposition.
(36:14):
Or if they're creating fashions.
It's just so much fun to seewhat people can come up with.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
And the doll is the starting point, the doll is the
inspiration doll is theinspiration it's, you know,
she's the basis of it, she's thebuilding block that everything
gets layered upon, and it's justso incredible.
In 2020, I was invited to Matteland I toured the design center
and at the time, the Instagramcloset was in one of the
cubicles in the design centerand so they opened up like a
(36:45):
couple of drawers so I could seewhat I was in there and the
custom stuff and everything, andI literally was just like blown
away and I was like, oh my God,I just wanted to stay in that
cubicle all day long, openingevery drawer and looking at
everything.
And it was vintage mixed withcustom, which was mixed with
regular line and all thedifferent shoes.
It was just absolutely dreamyand I was like, can we just pick
(37:06):
this up and take this back toNorth Carolina with me?
I just want all of this, and Ithink what was funny is pretty
much a lot of what they had inthere I probably already had in
my collection, but the waythey're presenting it, the way
they're doing it, it's just,it's just amazing.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
You know you've inspired me because that would
be a great idea.
You get yourself a bookcase,you know, from certain Swedish
manufacturers which areavailable worldwide.
And you customize it becausethey're always doing that on
Instagram and they'recustomizing, but you customize
(37:41):
it for Barbie and it would be somuch fun because you could
actually make your collectionmore accessible.
And I often get frustrated withthat as a collector, because I
have things in boxes, I havethings in doll trunks, I have
things and just to findsomething now I have sticky
labels, you know post-it noteson everything so.
I'll know where everything iswhen we want to do photographs
(38:04):
for the podcast.
One of my favorite, just toshare.
One of my favorite things thathappened to me as a doll
collector was in a beautifulshop in Paris and I had just
visited Samio Dan's museum and Iwent to a wonderful shop run by
a lady called Marie-Claude andshe had drawers full of and she
(38:26):
was like no, go look throughthem.
And I bought my first Frenchfashion doll and accessories and
I still have everything and Istill have the doll, a beautiful
little jumeau, and it wasextraordinary.
So those clothes came from 1870, about that circa, and Barbie
(38:48):
may be bang up to date, but itstill has the same joy of all
these little things, all theselittle pieces and how they all
come together and that again,it's your imagination, brings
them all together, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
And what you described to me opening up the
antique doll trunk or opening upthe drawer that's filled with
clothing and accessories it'slike, just kind of like opening
up your mind and giving yourbrain the opportunity to create
what you wanted to do and topair the accessory with the
fashion and decide what hat.
That was happening in the 1850s, 60s and 70s.
(39:26):
And then the same thing ishappening today.
You're opening up that vinylBarbie case or, by today's
standards, maybe plastic andpulling out your doll and the
outfits and the accessories andplaying, and that's whether
you're a seven-year-old girl orboy or, you know, in my thing, a
54-year-old man opening up thatcase.
It's giving you permission tohave fun, to play, to enjoy and
(39:50):
to dream, and I love that.
This just gives you thepermission to be that dreamer.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It's so true, we can talk about Barbie being
inspirational or a career rolemodel, but in the end she's
really just a doll, and once shecomes out of the box, that's
when the person playing with herdecides what she becomes.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
That person gets to decide and chooses the future of
that doll, creates that playpattern, creates that fantasy,
and that is so much what RuthHandler imagined that through
the doll they could always justpretend anything that the little
girl could dream or little boycould dream through this doll of
(40:36):
what their future held and theywere making choices and making
decisions that would laterimpact their world and they were
playing with this doll andcreating their future.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
It's true, and it lets you try on different ideas.
I mean, I didn't turn out to bea dog groomer, even though
that's the game I used to playwith my Barbies but I was trying
out different things and thatis what these little play sets
do for children but for adultplay.
For example, because of aconversation I had with you on a
(41:09):
podcast, my husband bought methe vintage dress shop for
Christmas last year and that hasbrought me more joy.
We found it at the wonderfulshop of Manfred Reichel in
Vienna, austria, who has themost extraordinary doll shop
Everybody should go there andreally beautiful and he's a
(41:29):
great expert.
And I said, manfred, what's upon the shelf?
And my husband bought it.
And I think I've mentioned thisbefore on the podcast.
But the joy and sometimes now Ihave a little bit of fun
because I was reading abiography about Mary Quant and
so maybe I stock the shop alittle bit like it's a shop in
(41:49):
the late 50s but it's movinginto the 60s and you know I'm
planning to photograph all this,but it takes time to do all
these things, but it's soinspiring to have some fun with
something from the 50s and 60sand get to put your own spin on
it.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I love that whole play pattern and even with you
as an adult setting up the shop,decorating it, dressing the
mannequin in the window, it'sjust so much and it's
transformative.
It probably takes you back toyour childhood of going to a
little dress shop with your momwhen she was looking for
something for a party andprobably at that moment dreaming
(42:30):
that one day you'd grow up andget to pick out a beautiful
dress to wear to a party.
What an amazing opportunity.
And for me, that sort of playpattern as a grown-up, getting
to do the thing of imagining,and it's stress relief.
It's, you know, it's taking mybrain out of the real crazy
world we're living in and takingme to this world where there's
(42:52):
no stress and there's no dramaand there's no, and it's just
setting up the Barbie dreamhouse the way that I want it,
putting the clothes in thecloset the way they should be,
and then dressing the dolls howthey need to be dressed and then
taking photographs and sharingthose photographs online or
something.
The one thing I always say aboutthe play and collecting and
(43:13):
researching and sharing.
At the end of the day, I'vebecome a doll collector and the
dolls I seem to be collectingnow are people, because I always
say, oh, you're a doll, but youknow what?
The community around mecontinues to inspire me.
The community around mecontinues to inspire me and the
community that we built is fullof amazing, kind, fabulous,
(43:39):
sharing people.
And it's such a great andwelcoming community to be a part
of the doll collectingcommunity, the Barbie collecting
community.
It's just, it's powerful toknow that there are so many
like-minded people that areenjoying the same thing you're
enjoying and that you can shareit with them.
And I think back to the daysbefore the internet and, as you
described, the crazy dial-updays of trying to connect with
people.
And now, with social media,it's such a great opportunity to
(44:02):
connect and just be in themoment of 65 amazing years of
Barbie.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
It is 65 wonderful years of play and fun for so
many people.
Bradley, nobody could say itbetter than you just said it.
Happy birthday, Barbie.
65 fabulous years.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Happy birthday.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Bradley, thank you so much for joining us on the Doll
Podcast and also I'd like totake the opportunity to thank
you for all your articles, yourmuseum presentations, the
research you do to chart BarbieDoll and the way she reflects
history, fashion and pop culture.
Also the way you piece togetherresearch and you interview so
(44:48):
many people for that research.
You know Mattel employees andvisit Mattel, and this is a very
the Bradley archives are a veryimportant resource for history,
not just for doll collectors.
So I'm really thrilled everytime you share this with us and
also we always have so much funwhen we do this.
(45:10):
It's really, really enjoyable.
Thank you, bradley.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Louisa, it is always a pleasure, absolutely a
pleasure.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
So happy birthday, barbie, and thank you, bradley,
for joining us on the DollPodcast.
The Doll Podcast is created byniche media productions.
Our music is by celticconspiracy.
Copyright louisa maxwell, 2024.
(45:40):
All rights reserved.
To find out more about the dollpodcast, go to our website on
wwwdollpodcastcom.
You can also find us onFacebook and Instagram as the
Doll Podcast.
We look forward to welcomingyou next time.
Thank you.
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