June 2, 2024 • 40 mins
The current exhibition at the Barry Art Museum in Norfolk Virginia, USA, discusses the work of Martha Jenks Chase and reveals how one woman’s desire to give her children a meaningful plaything became a movement for change and a company that would create dolls for almost 100 years.
Barry Museum guest curator Brett Day Windham joins host Louisa Maxwell to discuss the exhibition which explores Martha Chase’s work and how she used dolls as tools for social change and innovation. Brett is a multidisciplinary artist whose work uses found objects to create sculptures and images. she has exhibited throughout the United States and created iconic art installations for the prestigious New York Department Store Bergdorf Goodman.
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Episode Transcript
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Louisa Maxwell (00:08):
Welcome to the Doll Podcast.
I'm your host, Louisa Maxwell.
Today we talk about a dollmakerwho worked during an exciting
time in American history theProgressive Era from 1896 to
1917.
A time of social change,political reform, recognition of
the rights of women and workerstoo.
(00:30):
Martha Jenks Chase was a wifeand mother living in Pawtucket,
Rhode Island, and she was anadvocate of progressive
principles.
She came from a medical familyand observed advances in science
, nutrition, child developmentand medical care.
When it came to her children,she wanted toys that would
stimulate their imagination, berobust, washable and ready for
(00:54):
all their childhood adventures,and they should be cuddly too.
Not satisfied with the chinaand bisque dolls available,
Martha worked to create her owndoll, more in line with her
progressive philosophy.
The current exhibition at theBarry Art Museum in Norfolk,
Virginia, USA, discusses thework of Martha Chase and reveals
(01:16):
how one woman's desire to giveher children a meaningful
plaything became a movement forchange and a company that would
create dolls for almost 100years.
My guest is Brett Day, Windham,guest curator at the Barry Art
Museum.
Brett is a multimedia artistwhose work uses found objects to
(01:38):
create sculptures and images.
Brett has exhibited throughoutthe United States and created
iconic art installations for theprestigious New York department
store Bergdorf Goodman.
Brett, welcome to the DollPodcast.
Thank you, Brett.
It's wonderful to welcome youto the podcast.
It's going to be so interestingto hear your take as an artist
(02:02):
about the work of Martha JenksChase.
Before we start, Brett, wouldyou like to introduce a little
bit about yourself as an artistand curator?
Brett Day Windham (02:11):
Absolutely.
I am based in Providence, rhodeIsland, and I hold degrees in
fine art and creative writingand it's really a pleasure to
get to use both of those skillsin my everyday life.
I think that all of the work,all of the different day jobs
that I've had to support my fineart practice, have helped to
(02:37):
inform my curatorial approach.
So, learning how to research,learning how to be nimble,
working at Bergdorf and learningso much about the history of
fashion All these differentthings kind of coalesce and
doing my graduate studies atRhode Island School of Design,
which is really a school thatchampions research, and having a
(02:57):
strong concept behind the workthat you make, really taught me
how to dig deeper into projectsand ideas for my curatorial work
.
Louisa Maxwell (03:08):
So when you're working with the dolls of Martha
Jenks Chase, how did you reactto them as an artist?
Brett Day Windham (03:15):
Well, I think that the dolls themselves are
undeniably beautiful.
The faces are paintedbeautifully.
When I first saw one of thedolls in person with her
original one of the really earlydolls with her original
clothing, everything washand-stitched Every layer of
clothing, each hem and petticoat, all had the most exquisite
(03:40):
stitching.
And I really wasn't expectingnot knowing too much about her
yet I really wasn't expecting somuch evidence of the hand and
of fine handwork.
They really are.
Just.
I think that, in combinationwith the fact that they're not
porcelain, that they are, youknow, this incredibly tactile
material, they really have awarm quality to them.
Louisa Maxwell (04:03):
They're very inviting really have a warm
quality to them.
They're very inviting.
So can you describe what herdolls are like for perhaps some
of the listeners who haven'tseen a Martha Jenks Chase doll
Sure?
Brett Day Windham (04:13):
So because her company ran for 100 years,
the dolls evolved a great deal,so an early doll would be really
different from a later doll.
The earliest dolls have verybeautiful cotton bodies stuffed
with natural cotton and theirhands and feet and heads are
(04:36):
cast.
There's a legend that she madeher initial mold for the face of
one of the dolls from abeautiful porcelain doll from
Europe.
It's not confirmed, but that'ssort of the commonly accepted
understanding of what happenedand she figured out how to use
(04:57):
this textile called stockinetteand press that with sizing,
which could have been anythingfrom an animal-based glue to a
rubber, to press that shape intoher mold.
So you basically have a dollthat is completely made of
textile and then the face washardened and covered with more
sizing and shellac enough to beable to be painted.
(05:19):
So graduates of Rhode IslandSchool of Design were hired to
paint the faces.
So graduates of Rhode IslandSchool of Design were hired to
paint the faces.
Her daughter was one of themand you can just see the care
taken in each step of theprocess.
They have joints at their armsand legs so that they're
moldable and huggable andposeable, but just a flat-seamed
(05:40):
joint.
Louisa Maxwell (05:41):
When I saw the dolls online, they look like you
know if you were a child.
They look like such fun to playwith because they have all that
mobility of a porcelain doll, abiscuit doll with a composition
body.
And yet here the doll is soft,it can sit on your bed.
It can fall off the bed.
You know, children, drag themaround, have tea parties with
(06:06):
them, do all kinds of things.
Yes, that we all did too.
You should see some of mychildhood dolls.
They're a bit scary and it'ssuch a wonderful idea and it's
such a contrast to what wasbeing manufactured, mass
produced, at the time.
It's a wonderful concept andidea.
Brett Day Windham (06:25):
I couldn't agree more and I would just say
that the synchronicity, the waythat she found, okay, I don't
want a fragile doll for my childbecause I don't want it to
constantly need repair and Idon't want it to hurt my child
if it breaks.
And then she also didn't wantthe overly mechanized American
(06:45):
toys that were being produced atthe time.
That really didn't leave roomfor a child's imagination.
She really wanted a child tohave a doll that she could
nurture or he could nurture.
I think she was really focusedon little girls, teaching them
to be maternal, but I'm surelittle boys played with them,
because you can't stop them.
But yeah, you could really lovethem and hug them and play with
(07:08):
them and they could be cleanedoff.
She's a doctor's wife.
She wants them to be clean.
So she really found thisincredible way to sort of thread
this needle.
She rejected all these otherthings that were going on and
followed her kind of progressiveethos into this incredible
invention and into a reallyversatile toy.
Louisa Maxwell (07:29):
So Martha Chase began by making dolls for her
family and then friends saw themand the whole thing just became
a little bit of a cottageindustry at home.
But it was a chance encounterat a major department store that
brought Martha's doll designsto the attention of a buyer who
saw the potential in her dolls.
(07:50):
This must have been a hugemoment for Martha Chase, where
she goes from making a couple ofdolls at home to fulfilling
orders in a department store.
Brett Day Windham (08:00):
Absolutely.
I think one foundational pieceof information about Martha
Chase is that she was born intopretty significant privilege.
So she was the daughter ofdoctors.
She descended from the founderof her town and the founders of
Rhode Island.
She married a doctor who passedaway.
Then she married another doctor, so she was quite well-to and
(08:23):
she had a lot of access topeople who could help her.
But she still had to figure outhow to make things work and how
to build this industry on herown.
Izana Walker, who's thewell-known soft bodied folk doll
maker from nearby inMassachusetts.
Yes, their families knew eachother and Martha was given a
(08:45):
Nizana Walker doll as a littlegirl, and I think that we
actually found the provenance tothat doll via a letter that
Martha Chase's daughter wrote tosomeone who was acquiring the
doll.
So we have the date that it wasgiven to her and we have the
actual sort of prime sourcedocumentation, which is really
(09:06):
exciting, amazing.
Louisa Maxwell (09:08):
Yeah, that was a really late discovery and to
have found that letter.
Do you have that letter?
Is that going to be in theBarry exhibition?
Brett Day Windham (09:15):
It's not in the Barry exhibition it is
referred to.
And I just fell into such adeep well researching this
exhibition and I just found thatthere were so many inaccuracies
and guesses and made-up storiesonline and there really just
(09:36):
was not a cohesive, coherentsort of catalog, resume or
biography of Martha Chase, and Ijust got really frustrated and
when I get frustrated I digdeeper.
So I kept digging and diggingand digging and finally, at the
very end of my research, rightbefore we went to press with all
of our printed matter, Icontacted Carolyn Barry, who's
(09:59):
one of the founders of the BarryArt Museum, and I asked her if
she could give me access to herdoll news subscription.
And she did and I was able toaccess this prime source
document, this facsimile of thisletter.
So it was really really late,but the whole process of
researching this exhibition waslike that.
It was lots and lots and lotsof rabbit holes that I just had
(10:22):
to go down.
So I think, going back to youroriginal question about building
an industry, I think she had alot of privilege, but she still
had to figure out how to makethings work and she was also
working against the fact thatwomen couldn't vote.
I think two women in thecountry had been to medical
school at that point and it wasstill really just frowned upon.
(10:44):
Especially for well-to-do womenand for lower-class women it
wasn't even on the radar.
She couldn't own property, shecouldn't have a bank account.
She couldn't really do anythingwithout her husband's
permission.
So I think from that vantagepoint, the fact that she was
able to form this cottageindustry and then this whole
company is really prettyincredible.
(11:05):
She did first make the dolls forher own children and she was
looking for doll or child-sizedshoes for one of the dolls that
she made.
And she went to this famousdepartment store in New England
at the time called Jordan Marsh,which was still around when I
was growing up, and asked thesaleswoman for help and the
saleswoman looked at her dolland said, oh, we have to have
these.
So that was how it started andinitially it really was a
(11:27):
traditional cottage industrywhere she was giving piecework
to her neighbors in hercommunity in Pawtucket and also
thereby employing other women inher community and giving them
their own income, which isincredibly important.
And she started having themwork out of her garage and some
of them who couldn't be theremaybe if they had small children
at home, she'd send them homewith piecework and it just built
(11:50):
from there and I think, beingsuch a community-based person
already, she had access to hercommunity and she made it work
for her.
So I think there's a lot toapplaud about the way that she
was able to form her company.
Louisa Maxwell (12:03):
It's really women helping women when you
think about it and supportingeach other, and Martha Chase
really is testament to that.
It's so wonderful to hear thatyou were able to find out so
much of Martha's true story.
Will we be able to access theletter or the I believe that's
UFDC doll news?
Can we access any of theseresources so people can?
Brett Day Windham (12:27):
study them.
Louisa Maxwell (12:28):
Wonderful.
Yeah Well, we will.
Well, everyone will try andshare links with that, because I
think that's great news to havefound out so much about Martha
Chase.
And I've read about the ZannaWalker connection and I wondered
myself, because it's artinfluencing art.
So, after establishing herartist studio, aptly named and I
believe she called it theDoll's House Isn't that
(12:51):
wonderful?
And, as you said, she gaveopportunities to mainly a female
workforce to sew and paint.
She really became anentrepreneur.
What obstacles do you think shefaced to do all this?
Brett Day Windham (13:04):
Well, I think you know, because she came from
so much privilege, sheexperienced less obstacles than
others.
There's not a lot recordedabout pushback against what she
was doing.
I think what she was reallygood at was recognizing what was
around her that she couldutilize to be successful, and
(13:27):
Pawtucket is known as thebirthplace of the industrial
revolution in America.
Slater Mill, which has verylong, storied and somewhat dark
history, was down the streetfrom the dollhouse and they
produced textiles that helped toemancipate the colonies from
Great Britain so that we had ourown industry here.
(13:49):
Her father and her husband andher brother were all doctors, so
she had exposure both to all ofthe textiles and the medical
equipment that was comingthrough her home with her family
members.
The other big industry inPawtucket was medical supplies.
Was medical supplies BecauseI'm from Rhode Island.
(14:17):
I had a little bit of a leg upin recognizing names and places
and being able to connect a lotof dots, so she really was able
to hone in on a way to makethings that were locally
accessible work for her in thedollhouse, and so stockinette
became this locally made kind ofrevolutionary material for
(14:39):
protecting the skin when settinga cast etc.
As a material for her dolls.
So I think she was so cannythat she didn't really come up
against a lot of obstacles.
She had the space, she had thefunding from her husband and
father and off she went.
Louisa Maxwell (14:58):
It seems like she just didn't let anything
stop her, doesn't it?
Yeah, she seemed to have a veryclear vision of what she wanted
to do.
It sounds like she worked itout in her own time.
First, you know variousversions, probably, of the dolls
, and then just starts to rollout when it's ready.
Brett Day Windham (15:16):
I think, yeah , I think when you have as many
children as she did, you have alot of opportunities to keep
making dolls and getting thatprototype right, exactly.
Louisa Maxwell (15:26):
And they'll love them.
They'll take them off and thenyou can see if it comes back you
know quality control.
Brett Day Windham (15:34):
She's got her in-house beta testers.
Louisa Maxwell (15:36):
Very smart, Very smart.
So Martha not only made childdolls, but she also wanted to
inspire children in differentways and she developed her dolls
and introduced literarycharacters such as Alice in
Wonderland, Tweedledum andTweedledee, and it added to the
play value.
Are some of her storybook dollsincluded in the exhibition?
Brett Day Windham (16:01):
They are.
We have an original full set ofthe Alice in Wonderland
character dolls which is part ofthe permanent collection at the
Barrie Art Museum.
And then we have a doll that Isuspect is from one of her
Dickens character sets, becauseshe made a lot of Dickens
characters.
This was a time when there wasnot a copyright issue and nobody
(16:25):
had done very much of thisbefore, so she really could have
a lot of freedom withoutworrying about royalties or
copyrights or lawsuits.
And the character dolls are socharming.
The Alice in Wonderland dollsare modeled after the Tennille
illustrations and they're reallyevocative and I think it really
(16:45):
built on her progressive ethicsabout.
You know, she started hercompany in the year of the child
and she was reading doctrinesby German and Swiss and American
child development specialistswho were really thinking about
developing the brain, developingthe imagination.
So this went hand in hand witheverything that was important to
(17:07):
her.
Louisa Maxwell (17:08):
The thing I fell in love with the most,
researching this was because I'ma passionate fashion doll
collector, from Victorian allthe way to present day, and I
absolutely loved her fashioncharacters.
They're beautifully molded,beautifully painted, lovely
bodies, poseable.
But the thing that captured myimagination the most was this
(17:29):
wonderful work they did with thehair.
So the hair on all Martha Chasedolls, or most, because I think
there are a few exceptions, butmost of them are created with
paint effects, aren't they?
And they create little curlsand sometimes little chignons in
the case of the lady dolls,elaborate little styles, and yet
(17:51):
what's wonderful about this,from the point of view of
cleanliness, is you can wipethis hair over and everything is
pristine.
How did she create this painteffect on the heads?
Brett Day Windham (18:03):
So this speaks to the wisdom of hiring
artists, hiring artists fromRhode Island School of Design
who could create depth andtexture and shadow in a curl, in
a spit curl or in a baby curlor in a chignon.
And that's really what it was.
It was the paint, the painteffects, and then those were
(18:24):
sealed in by a shellac so thatthey could be painted.
This again going back to thetime that she lived in and her
family of doctors they're juststarting to think about germs
and she wanted to keepeverything clean and, I think,
the beautiful thing with acompany that was open for so
long, because she passed it onto her daughter and then her
grandson took it over.
So over the course of a hundredyears, the molds for the doll's
(18:46):
heads started to showthree-dimensional hair shapes so
that as the dolls progressed,when the doll artists were
painting the hair on, theyactually had a little bit of a
relief to paint onto.
So they're always solid.
The kids are never going to becutting the hair with scissors
or pulling it out or worryingabout it getting dirty or muddy
(19:07):
or what have you.
But they do get more pronouncedup until in the 1970s, sort of
at the tail end of the companywhen they were making the heads
out of vinyl.
They even had these incrediblycharming sort of bob haircuts
with little things that almostlooked like a mother's kitchen
haircut Very classic of the time, but yeah, it was pretty
(19:29):
brilliant.
Louisa Maxwell (19:30):
It was a really great idea.
And again, it adds to the playaspect.
Of course Martha Chase stressedthe educational.
One of the things I lovedlooking at the images from the
exhibition is you showedadvertisements that Martha Chase
had done and on them shestressed the educational aspect
of her dolls.
And it says stressed theeducational aspect of her dolls
(19:56):
and it says, quote especiallymade for use in schools.
How are her dolls used for?
Brett Day Windham (19:58):
educational purposes.
So her dolls were designed toteach little girls how to be
mothers or children how to beparents.
I think is what, in retrospect,I'm looking at.
But I think her intention waslittle girls how to be mothers
and how to care for a baby andhow to be empathetic and kind
and keep things clean, and shereally believed in instilling
that everywhere.
(20:19):
There are records that I havenot found prime source documents
but of her sending dolls evento Native American reservations
that had a brown skin color,that she wanted those kids to
have access to learning how totake care of a baby and she felt
like that matrilineal line wasjust as important a part of
education as anything else.
And I think the way that MrsChase was always able to see an
(20:45):
opportunity and make it happen,nothing seems to have gotten by
her.
If there was an opportunity,she jumped on it and she made it
happen, and I think that wasthe case with her really canny
advertisements throughout hercareer.
Louisa Maxwell (20:59):
Yes, she was really someone who saw an
opportunity and just went rightafter it and kept developing we
would say today, kept developingthe brand and finding new ways
of repurposing the original ideaof a lovely fun-to-play-with
doll.
But Martha Chase did not justconfine herself to child's play.
(21:23):
In 1911, miss Lauder Sutherland, principal of the Hartford
Training School for Nurses, sawMartha's dolls, saw how
realistic and durable Chase'sdolls were, and she commissioned
a life-size teaching dummy forher young nurses to practice
their skills on.
So what innovations andfeatures did Martha have to add
(21:46):
to these training dolls?
Brett Day Windham (21:48):
Okay so now we're getting into the heart of
the matter.
This is where Martha Chasereally really blew me away.
The innovations and featuresevolved over time.
She started out with a verysimple training doll.
One of the first innovationsthat they had is that they were
(22:21):
weighted, so they correspondedto the average weight given out
by.
The very just formed earlyAmerican Medical Association was
giving out average weights foreach age and gender, so they
were weighted.
The very early ones had portsthat could be cleaned at the
orifices so the orifices areopen.
And then, as they developed,they would have a port in the
arm for an IV to be inserted ora way to learn how to use a
catheter all this kind of nittygritty nursing training.
It's just incredible to thinkthat nurses didn't have anything
(22:45):
but real patients to practiceon before this right.
Louisa Maxwell (22:49):
It's just it's a little scary when you think
about it.
Brett Day Windham (22:53):
It's very scary.
It's very scary.
And they got so good, thesetraining dolls, that she made
them adult size, child size,always weighted.
The very first doll, she namedher Mrs Demonstrator, mrs
Demonstrator and she MarthaChase one thing that I gathered
from one of my favorite booksthat I found to research, which
(23:15):
is called A Doll's House, whichwas written by the niece of one
of Martha Chase's employees atthe dollhouse.
Apparently, martha Chase was acut-up.
She was really funny and shewould dress Mrs Demon Strader in
one of her dresses.
She was exactly her height.
She made her five foot four,which is also my height, and she
would seat her at the dinnertable and invite her friends
(23:39):
over to dinner and everyone wasso polite that no one would
really say anything and shewould say, oh, mrs Strader,
would you like some peas, orwhatever it was, and finally she
would just break up laughing.
So she had a lot of fun withthis doll that was modeled after
her, but once it went over toHartford it became
affectionately known as MrsChase.
(24:00):
Oh, I love that there are a lotof stories.
Louisa Maxwell (24:05):
How did you find out about that story?
Where was the source?
Because that's wonderful.
Brett Day Windham (24:08):
Yeah.
So the source is thisincredible book called A Doll's
House and it was published onthe occasion of a Martha Chase
exhibition.
That happened at the RhodeIsland Historical Society, I
think in 1986.
And my copy of the book is nowin the exhibition, which breaks
my heart because it became mylittle totem that I carried
(24:29):
around with me everywhere forsix months and because it was
written in the 80s by a familymember of an employee.
She had access to a lot ofpeople while they were still
alive to do first-personinterviews, and I found one copy
of the book on Amazon, a usedlibrary copy, and I haven't seen
(24:50):
another.
So that's why I felt that therewas enough import to include it
in the exhibition, because itreally gave me a lot of these
really funny stories.
There was another one about afire nearby on the street from
the dollhouse and the firemenwere using the parking area
(25:10):
behind the dollhouse, which wasthe garage behind her house, to
stage their firefighting effortsand the flames were
illuminating the windows in thegarage.
And she saw the firemen startto get alarmed because when you
could see in the windows therewere all of these dolls hanging
by the neck, at all differentsizes from child to adult, these
(25:32):
silhouettes of people hangingand she just laughed and laughed
and laughed and watched themget more and more agitated and
then finally went and told themwhat was going on and invited
them inside and everybody had agood laugh.
But I think you just can't gethelp but them get more and more
agitated.
And then finally went and toldthem what was going on and
invited them inside andeverybody had a good laugh.
But I think you just can't gethelp but get really attached to
her when you hear stories likethat.
Louisa Maxwell (25:51):
She sounds like such a great personality and so
down to earth, and I thinkthat's the key to her success.
Yes, she had an artist's eye,she had all this talent.
She was able to use the fabricsand the paints and start this
whole thing off.
And I think this humor, thisenergy she just completely
(26:13):
bypasses our image of aVictorian woman and, after all,
the driver behind her search forcleanliness and combining
medical principles along withtoy design really is fueled by
the fact that child mortality inthis era is very high.
There are no antibiotics If youget an infection, if you get
(26:35):
the measles, the mumps, ascarlet fever and then TB was a
big killer.
I hate to say this.
Brett Day Windham (26:43):
No, the Spanish flu came through Rhode
Island Well this is it.
Louisa Maxwell (26:46):
This is in the early 20th century.
People still are battling thosediseases.
So Martha Chase's energy andher foresight were wonderful,
because she's seeing thatcleanliness is important in the
nursery.
Brett Day Windham (27:03):
I agree, and I think the fact that she called
them sanitary dolls reallyspoke to those concerns and that
she made dolls of all skincolors black, brown, white
because she really wanted toeducate the general public
really about how to keep thingsclean and not just how to play,
not just how to be maternal, buthow to keep things clean,
Because she had a front row seatto all of these ailments and
(27:25):
illnesses that could take peopledown so quickly.
Louisa Maxwell (27:29):
Are any of Martha Chase's black baby dolls?
Because I've seen them, I'veseen pictures of them and
they're utterly charming.
Are any of these lovely dollsin the exhibition?
Brett Day Windham (27:39):
They are not.
They are not and I was reallydisappointed not to be able to
(28:07):
get my hands on an example,because they are really charming
.
They were commemor research.
I found this wonderful woman,wonderful resource, debbie
Garrett.
She is the founder of theVirtual Black Doll Museum and
she had some Black Martha Chasebaby dolls on her website and I
reached out to her and she wasincredibly generous in sending
us an image of her doll and justgiving me some of her thoughts
(28:30):
on what she thought about themand how she approached them.
And I was really thrilled todiscover that we were on the
same page, that these dolls weremade with the best of
intentions and were made to bebeautiful, and she did not
intend to disparage orcaricature the Black faces or
ideas or anything that she wasdoing.
(28:52):
It was really genuine and withaffection and it was really
important for me to speak with aBlack woman, an
African-American woman, abouther thoughts, because my
thoughts as a white womanthey're kind of beside the point
.
So, debbie, I really amgrateful to Debbie and her
website and her resource fortalking to me about those Black
(29:13):
dolls.
So we included that in ourmuseum guide, which is available
at the entrance to the galleryfor everyone.
They're free.
You can take them away.
They have full color pictures,so that was a way that we'll
work around that we found toinclude them.
Louisa Maxwell (29:27):
Will the museum guide be online at any point, or
is there a link where we couldread it?
Brett Day Windham (29:32):
That's a great question.
I know that a lot of theresearch that's in the museum
guide is on the museum's websiteand I know that the museum
guide exists in online format,so I could certainly inquire
about having that added.
Louisa Maxwell (29:48):
Because we'll give links to the website and
we'll give links to the guide,because it's really important to
grow in our knowledge of MarthaChase and how she was
representing all cultures at thetime and all Americans at the
time, because she's a snapshotof America right then at the end
of the 19th and beginning ofthe 20th century, and when we
(30:11):
see how progressive and how shewas just such a wonderful force
for change and for innovationit's inspiring to know there's a
woman like that in our history.
Brett Day Windham (30:23):
Especially because she was living in a time
where there was still childlabor in the textile mills in
the town where she lived thatshe was, you know, a founder of,
and there were all of theseNative American people had been
displaced, just forced out toform this town, and there were
(30:44):
enslaved people being broughtinto the community and being
brought to the Caribbean as partof the triangle trade to grow
the cotton, to make the textiles, and so she benefited from all
of this exploitation.
So the fact that she was ableto take this sort of aerial look
, step back, use her privilegeto take a bigger picture, look
(31:06):
at her community and at the waythat the country was being built
, and just be magnanimous andjust say no, I don't stand for
this.
I believe in children and Ibelieve in kindness and empathy,
and I think that that's alsoreally just at the heart of who
she was.
Louisa Maxwell (31:24):
The other thing about her is that she's thinking
about children and play andinnovation.
And, of course, the thing welove about Martha's dolls is
that not only are theyrepresenting her society and
bringing it a step forward andcuing us into a moment in
history in the progressive era,but she designed her dolls to be
(31:45):
played with I read thatsometimes when they lost a limb
or were victims of a child withan artistic bent and we've all
done that at some point.
Martha Chase had a hospital forher dolls, where dolls could be
repaired and sometimesrepainted.
Today, collectors argue a lotabout.
(32:06):
Only an original, untoucheddoll is a true representation of
the artist's original work.
So how do we work with that?
How do we identify an originalMartha Chase doll today?
And if we notice that that dollhas restoration or repair done
in the Chase factory, how doesit affect that doll?
(32:28):
Is it documented?
Brett Day Windham (32:30):
There are telltale signs, there are ways
to tell if a doll has beenrestored, how recently it's been
restored, how professionallyit's been restored.
I think that for me, as anartist, I'm really interested in
the story.
So repairs and evidence of adoll being loved add to that
(32:51):
history for me and that patinaFor serious doll collectors and
institutions.
I understand that they aresetting a standard so that we
have something to bounce off ofand they really want to see the
most pristine example of whatthe doll maker intended the doll
to look like.
I kind of think Martha Chase isan exception because she wanted
(33:14):
her dolls to be played with.
Louisa Maxwell (33:16):
I mean with restoration, when we think of
Martha Chase's restoration,because she had this panel of
artists, she really had expertsto take these dolls in and keep
the look, keep the aspect,because they were made in-house.
Yeah.
Brett Day Windham (33:33):
Yeah, it's an incredible thing.
I mean, I think, as with MadameAlexander, who grew up, you
know, her father repaired dollsand then she became a doll maker
.
I think there's a real line ofcontinuity between the two, of
understanding that dolls getbroken.
Louisa Maxwell (33:45):
It's amazing to think about all these wonderful
people working in the doll'shouse and the sense of community
.
It seems to be that herbusiness was something that had
such a great impact on so manypeople's lives.
So she really did live up toher progressive values, didn't
she?
Brett Day Windham (34:06):
She really did.
She's very inspiring and youknow, as someone who grew up
here, she's a real personalinspiration to me.
As part of my research I triedto kind of retrace her steps
around the community and I wasreally disappointed that her
house and workshop are now gone.
But my art studio is inPawtucket, less than a mile from
(34:30):
where she lived, so I was ableto kind of retrace her stomping
grounds.
And then we have a very, verybeautiful cemetery in Providence
called Swan Point Cemetery andyou can use an app or the kiosk
at the entrance to the cemeteryto find where loved ones are
buried.
There are quite a few notablepeople who are buried there.
(34:52):
So I was able to go and find hergrave, which was really
meaningful to me, and I justfound myself going deeper and
deeper and deeper into myresearch of her, my wonderful
allyship with the Rhode IslandHistorical Society, who lent
dolls to the exhibition and whomI'm still working with, and I
called my mother and told herabout the work that I was doing
(35:13):
and how.
You know we grew up on thecorner of Jenks Street, so that
was my first clue that this wassomebody who was going to hit
really close to home for me andmy mother said you know, I've
just been doing all thisgenealogical work because I did
one of those DNA website thingsand we already knew that we were
(35:35):
related to Abigail Adams.
So is Martha Chase?
She's your cousin.
Louisa Maxwell (35:44):
Yes, so at the very end, this is like one of
those reveals on one of thoseprograms and wow.
Brett Day Windham (35:54):
So she is my cousin through my mother's side,
the Day family.
My maternal grandfather was aDay, my maternal grandmother was
a May.
Being from a Mayflower familyis a very fraught thing for me.
I don't feel proud of itnecessarily because of the
behavior of the colonists.
(36:14):
It's interesting, it's aprivilege to be able to trace
your lineage.
A lot of Americans don't havethat privilege, but it was
really wonderful for me to findout that the Day family, who
were one generation in front ofAbigail Adams, were actually
abolitionists and moved fromConnecticut to Vermont and
(36:36):
really upheld those beliefs.
And then the other branch of thefamily was Martha Jenks.
Martha Jenks Chase was her, Ithink great-grandmother was a
Brown and the woman she was anAdams.
Her maiden name was Adams andshe married a Brown.
So the Browns are an incrediblyproblematic slave-owning family
(36:59):
but the Adams were not.
So we come from this same lineof concerned, thoughtful,
sensitive, hopeful people and itwas really incredible, after
going down this incredibly deepresearch, just falling into this
(37:20):
well and sort of falling inlove with this woman, to find
out that we were related.
Louisa Maxwell (37:24):
That is astounding.
I really have to say thatyou've woven a tapestry now of
American history, moving allthese threads together, of this
wonderful output of work byMartha Jenks, chase and then all
these families interleaving andcoming together, with the
(37:46):
positives but also the negatives.
That's something we'reexploring now in society and
that's an important thing for usto start to recognize that we
need to understand our history.
So this is extraordinary thatyou have found so many amazing
things to bring together toshare with us today, and they'll
all be shared in the Barry ArtMuseum and this wonderful
(38:08):
exhibition.
Of all the dolls you looked atand worked with in this
exhibition, is there one thatstands out for you?
Is there one of them that youreally feel in tune with?
Oh, that's a really goodquestion.
Brett Day Windham (38:24):
I love them all.
I love the original Mrs Chasedoll, which is still on display
at Hartford Hospital I think thebaby dolls, because they were
the first dolls of hers that Iwas able to hold and touch and
experience and they are from thefirst couple of years of her
company, so I know that her handwas directly involved.
(38:46):
And just the beauty that Italked about at the beginning of
the episode, of each part ofthe doll being so beautifully
and carefully rendered and justhaving this really special
moment at the Historical Societywith the doll, unearthing her
from her packaging, looking ather just angelic face, and it
was a really memorableexperience.
Louisa Maxwell (39:08):
That's a very beautiful experience you've
shared and you've shared so muchwith us.
Brett Day Windham, thank you somuch for joining us on the Doll
Podcast telling us all thedetails of the exhibition.
We're going to have lots oflinks to as much of this
knowledge as we can share withour audience.
Brett Day Windham (39:27):
Thank you so much for having me, because I'm
obviously passionate about thisstory and it's wonderful to be
able to share it and not justkeep it all inside.
I want to sort of sing herpraises from the rooftops, so I
really appreciate you having meon the show.
Louisa Maxwell (39:44):
Well, it's been really wonderful.
Thank you, brett.
Thank you for joining us on theDoll Podcast.
The exhibition at the Barry ArtMuseum Martha Chase Progressive
Kindness continues until July28, 2024.
To find out more about theexhibition, to see pictures of
(40:08):
Martha Chase and her dolls andto get links to lots of
interesting information, just goto our website,
wwwdollpodcastcom.
We look forward to welcomingyou the next time.
Thank you.
(40:48):
Copyright The Doll Podcast andLouisa Maxwel
Welcome to the Doll Podcast.
I'm your host, Louisa Maxwell.
Today we talk about a dollmakerwho worked during an exciting
time in American history theProgressive Era from 1896 to
1917.
A time of social change,political reform, recognition of
the rights of women and workerstoo.
(00:30):
Martha Jenks Chase was a wifeand mother living in Pawtucket,
Rhode Island, and she was anadvocate of progressive
principles.
She came from a medical familyand observed advances in science
, nutrition, child developmentand medical care.
When it came to her children,she wanted toys that would
stimulate their imagination, berobust, washable and ready for
(00:54):
all their childhood adventures,and they should be cuddly too.
Not satisfied with the chinaand bisque dolls available,
Martha worked to create her owndoll, more in line with her
progressive philosophy.
The current exhibition at theBarry Art Museum in Norfolk,
Virginia, USA, discusses thework of Martha Chase and reveals
(01:16):
how one woman's desire to giveher children a meaningful
plaything became a movement forchange and a company that would
create dolls for almost 100years.
My guest is Brett Day, Windham,guest curator at the Barry Art
Museum.
Brett is a multimedia artistwhose work uses found objects to
(01:38):
create sculptures and images.
Brett has exhibited throughoutthe United States and created
iconic art installations for theprestigious New York department
store Bergdorf Goodman.
Brett, welcome to the DollPodcast.
Thank you, Brett.
It's wonderful to welcome youto the podcast.
It's going to be so interestingto hear your take as an artist
(02:02):
about the work of Martha JenksChase.
Before we start, Brett, wouldyou like to introduce a little
bit about yourself as an artistand curator?
Brett Day Windham (02:11):
Absolutely.
I am based in Providence, rhodeIsland, and I hold degrees in
fine art and creative writingand it's really a pleasure to
get to use both of those skillsin my everyday life.
I think that all of the work,all of the different day jobs
that I've had to support my fineart practice, have helped to
(02:37):
inform my curatorial approach.
So, learning how to research,learning how to be nimble,
working at Bergdorf and learningso much about the history of
fashion All these differentthings kind of coalesce and
doing my graduate studies atRhode Island School of Design,
which is really a school thatchampions research, and having a
(02:57):
strong concept behind the workthat you make, really taught me
how to dig deeper into projectsand ideas for my curatorial work
.
Louisa Maxwell (03:08):
So when you're working with the dolls of Martha
Jenks Chase, how did you reactto them as an artist?
Brett Day Windham (03:15):
Well, I think that the dolls themselves are
undeniably beautiful.
The faces are paintedbeautifully.
When I first saw one of thedolls in person with her
original one of the really earlydolls with her original
clothing, everything washand-stitched Every layer of
clothing, each hem and petticoat, all had the most exquisite
(03:40):
stitching.
And I really wasn't expectingnot knowing too much about her
yet I really wasn't expecting somuch evidence of the hand and
of fine handwork.
They really are.
Just.
I think that, in combinationwith the fact that they're not
porcelain, that they are, youknow, this incredibly tactile
material, they really have awarm quality to them.
Louisa Maxwell (04:03):
They're very inviting really have a warm
quality to them.
They're very inviting.
So can you describe what herdolls are like for perhaps some
of the listeners who haven'tseen a Martha Jenks Chase doll
Sure?
Brett Day Windham (04:13):
So because her company ran for 100 years,
the dolls evolved a great deal,so an early doll would be really
different from a later doll.
The earliest dolls have verybeautiful cotton bodies stuffed
with natural cotton and theirhands and feet and heads are
(04:36):
cast.
There's a legend that she madeher initial mold for the face of
one of the dolls from abeautiful porcelain doll from
Europe.
It's not confirmed, but that'ssort of the commonly accepted
understanding of what happenedand she figured out how to use
(04:57):
this textile called stockinetteand press that with sizing,
which could have been anythingfrom an animal-based glue to a
rubber, to press that shape intoher mold.
So you basically have a dollthat is completely made of
textile and then the face washardened and covered with more
sizing and shellac enough to beable to be painted.
(05:19):
So graduates of Rhode IslandSchool of Design were hired to
paint the faces.
So graduates of Rhode IslandSchool of Design were hired to
paint the faces.
Her daughter was one of themand you can just see the care
taken in each step of theprocess.
They have joints at their armsand legs so that they're
moldable and huggable andposeable, but just a flat-seamed
(05:40):
joint.
Louisa Maxwell (05:41):
When I saw the dolls online, they look like you
know if you were a child.
They look like such fun to playwith because they have all that
mobility of a porcelain doll, abiscuit doll with a composition
body.
And yet here the doll is soft,it can sit on your bed.
It can fall off the bed.
You know, children, drag themaround, have tea parties with
(06:06):
them, do all kinds of things.
Yes, that we all did too.
You should see some of mychildhood dolls.
They're a bit scary and it'ssuch a wonderful idea and it's
such a contrast to what wasbeing manufactured, mass
produced, at the time.
It's a wonderful concept andidea.
Brett Day Windham (06:25):
I couldn't agree more and I would just say
that the synchronicity, the waythat she found, okay, I don't
want a fragile doll for my childbecause I don't want it to
constantly need repair and Idon't want it to hurt my child
if it breaks.
And then she also didn't wantthe overly mechanized American
(06:45):
toys that were being produced atthe time.
That really didn't leave roomfor a child's imagination.
She really wanted a child tohave a doll that she could
nurture or he could nurture.
I think she was really focusedon little girls, teaching them
to be maternal, but I'm surelittle boys played with them,
because you can't stop them.
But yeah, you could really lovethem and hug them and play with
(07:08):
them and they could be cleanedoff.
She's a doctor's wife.
She wants them to be clean.
So she really found thisincredible way to sort of thread
this needle.
She rejected all these otherthings that were going on and
followed her kind of progressiveethos into this incredible
invention and into a reallyversatile toy.
Louisa Maxwell (07:29):
So Martha Chase began by making dolls for her
family and then friends saw themand the whole thing just became
a little bit of a cottageindustry at home.
But it was a chance encounterat a major department store that
brought Martha's doll designsto the attention of a buyer who
saw the potential in her dolls.
(07:50):
This must have been a hugemoment for Martha Chase, where
she goes from making a couple ofdolls at home to fulfilling
orders in a department store.
Brett Day Windham (08:00):
Absolutely.
I think one foundational pieceof information about Martha
Chase is that she was born intopretty significant privilege.
So she was the daughter ofdoctors.
She descended from the founderof her town and the founders of
Rhode Island.
She married a doctor who passedaway.
Then she married another doctor, so she was quite well-to and
(08:23):
she had a lot of access topeople who could help her.
But she still had to figure outhow to make things work and how
to build this industry on herown.
Izana Walker, who's thewell-known soft bodied folk doll
maker from nearby inMassachusetts.
Yes, their families knew eachother and Martha was given a
(08:45):
Nizana Walker doll as a littlegirl, and I think that we
actually found the provenance tothat doll via a letter that
Martha Chase's daughter wrote tosomeone who was acquiring the
doll.
So we have the date that it wasgiven to her and we have the
actual sort of prime sourcedocumentation, which is really
(09:06):
exciting, amazing.
Louisa Maxwell (09:08):
Yeah, that was a really late discovery and to
have found that letter.
Do you have that letter?
Is that going to be in theBarry exhibition?
Brett Day Windham (09:15):
It's not in the Barry exhibition it is
referred to.
And I just fell into such adeep well researching this
exhibition and I just found thatthere were so many inaccuracies
and guesses and made-up storiesonline and there really just
(09:36):
was not a cohesive, coherentsort of catalog, resume or
biography of Martha Chase, and Ijust got really frustrated and
when I get frustrated I digdeeper.
So I kept digging and diggingand digging and finally, at the
very end of my research, rightbefore we went to press with all
of our printed matter, Icontacted Carolyn Barry, who's
(09:59):
one of the founders of the BarryArt Museum, and I asked her if
she could give me access to herdoll news subscription.
And she did and I was able toaccess this prime source
document, this facsimile of thisletter.
So it was really really late,but the whole process of
researching this exhibition waslike that.
It was lots and lots and lotsof rabbit holes that I just had
(10:22):
to go down.
So I think, going back to youroriginal question about building
an industry, I think she had alot of privilege, but she still
had to figure out how to makethings work and she was also
working against the fact thatwomen couldn't vote.
I think two women in thecountry had been to medical
school at that point and it wasstill really just frowned upon.
(10:44):
Especially for well-to-do womenand for lower-class women it
wasn't even on the radar.
She couldn't own property, shecouldn't have a bank account.
She couldn't really do anythingwithout her husband's
permission.
So I think from that vantagepoint, the fact that she was
able to form this cottageindustry and then this whole
company is really prettyincredible.
(11:05):
She did first make the dolls forher own children and she was
looking for doll or child-sizedshoes for one of the dolls that
she made.
And she went to this famousdepartment store in New England
at the time called Jordan Marsh,which was still around when I
was growing up, and asked thesaleswoman for help and the
saleswoman looked at her dolland said, oh, we have to have
these.
So that was how it started andinitially it really was a
(11:27):
traditional cottage industrywhere she was giving piecework
to her neighbors in hercommunity in Pawtucket and also
thereby employing other women inher community and giving them
their own income, which isincredibly important.
And she started having themwork out of her garage and some
of them who couldn't be theremaybe if they had small children
at home, she'd send them homewith piecework and it just built
(11:50):
from there and I think, beingsuch a community-based person
already, she had access to hercommunity and she made it work
for her.
So I think there's a lot toapplaud about the way that she
was able to form her company.
Louisa Maxwell (12:03):
It's really women helping women when you
think about it and supportingeach other, and Martha Chase
really is testament to that.
It's so wonderful to hear thatyou were able to find out so
much of Martha's true story.
Will we be able to access theletter or the I believe that's
UFDC doll news?
Can we access any of theseresources so people can?
Brett Day Windham (12:27):
study them.
Louisa Maxwell (12:28):
Wonderful.
Yeah Well, we will.
Well, everyone will try andshare links with that, because I
think that's great news to havefound out so much about Martha
Chase.
And I've read about the ZannaWalker connection and I wondered
myself, because it's artinfluencing art.
So, after establishing herartist studio, aptly named and I
believe she called it theDoll's House Isn't that
(12:51):
wonderful?
And, as you said, she gaveopportunities to mainly a female
workforce to sew and paint.
She really became anentrepreneur.
What obstacles do you think shefaced to do all this?
Brett Day Windham (13:04):
Well, I think you know, because she came from
so much privilege, sheexperienced less obstacles than
others.
There's not a lot recordedabout pushback against what she
was doing.
I think what she was reallygood at was recognizing what was
around her that she couldutilize to be successful, and
(13:27):
Pawtucket is known as thebirthplace of the industrial
revolution in America.
Slater Mill, which has verylong, storied and somewhat dark
history, was down the streetfrom the dollhouse and they
produced textiles that helped toemancipate the colonies from
Great Britain so that we had ourown industry here.
(13:49):
Her father and her husband andher brother were all doctors, so
she had exposure both to all ofthe textiles and the medical
equipment that was comingthrough her home with her family
members.
The other big industry inPawtucket was medical supplies.
Was medical supplies BecauseI'm from Rhode Island.
(14:17):
I had a little bit of a leg upin recognizing names and places
and being able to connect a lotof dots, so she really was able
to hone in on a way to makethings that were locally
accessible work for her in thedollhouse, and so stockinette
became this locally made kind ofrevolutionary material for
(14:39):
protecting the skin when settinga cast etc.
As a material for her dolls.
So I think she was so cannythat she didn't really come up
against a lot of obstacles.
She had the space, she had thefunding from her husband and
father and off she went.
Louisa Maxwell (14:58):
It seems like she just didn't let anything
stop her, doesn't it?
Yeah, she seemed to have a veryclear vision of what she wanted
to do.
It sounds like she worked itout in her own time.
First, you know variousversions, probably, of the dolls
, and then just starts to rollout when it's ready.
Brett Day Windham (15:16):
I think, yeah , I think when you have as many
children as she did, you have alot of opportunities to keep
making dolls and getting thatprototype right, exactly.
Louisa Maxwell (15:26):
And they'll love them.
They'll take them off and thenyou can see if it comes back you
know quality control.
Brett Day Windham (15:34):
She's got her in-house beta testers.
Louisa Maxwell (15:36):
Very smart, Very smart.
So Martha not only made childdolls, but she also wanted to
inspire children in differentways and she developed her dolls
and introduced literarycharacters such as Alice in
Wonderland, Tweedledum andTweedledee, and it added to the
play value.
Are some of her storybook dollsincluded in the exhibition?
Brett Day Windham (16:01):
They are.
We have an original full set ofthe Alice in Wonderland
character dolls which is part ofthe permanent collection at the
Barrie Art Museum.
And then we have a doll that Isuspect is from one of her
Dickens character sets, becauseshe made a lot of Dickens
characters.
This was a time when there wasnot a copyright issue and nobody
(16:25):
had done very much of thisbefore, so she really could have
a lot of freedom withoutworrying about royalties or
copyrights or lawsuits.
And the character dolls are socharming.
The Alice in Wonderland dollsare modeled after the Tennille
illustrations and they're reallyevocative and I think it really
(16:45):
built on her progressive ethicsabout.
You know, she started hercompany in the year of the child
and she was reading doctrinesby German and Swiss and American
child development specialistswho were really thinking about
developing the brain, developingthe imagination.
So this went hand in hand witheverything that was important to
(17:07):
her.
Louisa Maxwell (17:08):
The thing I fell in love with the most,
researching this was because I'ma passionate fashion doll
collector, from Victorian allthe way to present day, and I
absolutely loved her fashioncharacters.
They're beautifully molded,beautifully painted, lovely
bodies, poseable.
But the thing that captured myimagination the most was this
(17:29):
wonderful work they did with thehair.
So the hair on all Martha Chasedolls, or most, because I think
there are a few exceptions, butmost of them are created with
paint effects, aren't they?
And they create little curlsand sometimes little chignons in
the case of the lady dolls,elaborate little styles, and yet
(17:51):
what's wonderful about this,from the point of view of
cleanliness, is you can wipethis hair over and everything is
pristine.
How did she create this painteffect on the heads?
Brett Day Windham (18:03):
So this speaks to the wisdom of hiring
artists, hiring artists fromRhode Island School of Design
who could create depth andtexture and shadow in a curl, in
a spit curl or in a baby curlor in a chignon.
And that's really what it was.
It was the paint, the painteffects, and then those were
(18:24):
sealed in by a shellac so thatthey could be painted.
This again going back to thetime that she lived in and her
family of doctors they're juststarting to think about germs
and she wanted to keepeverything clean and, I think,
the beautiful thing with acompany that was open for so
long, because she passed it onto her daughter and then her
grandson took it over.
So over the course of a hundredyears, the molds for the doll's
(18:46):
heads started to showthree-dimensional hair shapes so
that as the dolls progressed,when the doll artists were
painting the hair on, theyactually had a little bit of a
relief to paint onto.
So they're always solid.
The kids are never going to becutting the hair with scissors
or pulling it out or worryingabout it getting dirty or muddy
(19:07):
or what have you.
But they do get more pronouncedup until in the 1970s, sort of
at the tail end of the companywhen they were making the heads
out of vinyl.
They even had these incrediblycharming sort of bob haircuts
with little things that almostlooked like a mother's kitchen
haircut Very classic of the time, but yeah, it was pretty
(19:29):
brilliant.
Louisa Maxwell (19:30):
It was a really great idea.
And again, it adds to the playaspect.
Of course Martha Chase stressedthe educational.
One of the things I lovedlooking at the images from the
exhibition is you showedadvertisements that Martha Chase
had done and on them shestressed the educational aspect
of her dolls.
And it says stressed theeducational aspect of her dolls
(19:56):
and it says, quote especiallymade for use in schools.
How are her dolls used for?
Brett Day Windham (19:58):
educational purposes.
So her dolls were designed toteach little girls how to be
mothers or children how to beparents.
I think is what, in retrospect,I'm looking at.
But I think her intention waslittle girls how to be mothers
and how to care for a baby andhow to be empathetic and kind
and keep things clean, and shereally believed in instilling
that everywhere.
(20:19):
There are records that I havenot found prime source documents
but of her sending dolls evento Native American reservations
that had a brown skin color,that she wanted those kids to
have access to learning how totake care of a baby and she felt
like that matrilineal line wasjust as important a part of
education as anything else.
And I think the way that MrsChase was always able to see an
(20:45):
opportunity and make it happen,nothing seems to have gotten by
her.
If there was an opportunity,she jumped on it and she made it
happen, and I think that wasthe case with her really canny
advertisements throughout hercareer.
Louisa Maxwell (20:59):
Yes, she was really someone who saw an
opportunity and just went rightafter it and kept developing we
would say today, kept developingthe brand and finding new ways
of repurposing the original ideaof a lovely fun-to-play-with
doll.
But Martha Chase did not justconfine herself to child's play.
(21:23):
In 1911, miss Lauder Sutherland, principal of the Hartford
Training School for Nurses, sawMartha's dolls, saw how
realistic and durable Chase'sdolls were, and she commissioned
a life-size teaching dummy forher young nurses to practice
their skills on.
So what innovations andfeatures did Martha have to add
(21:46):
to these training dolls?
Brett Day Windham (21:48):
Okay so now we're getting into the heart of
the matter.
This is where Martha Chasereally really blew me away.
The innovations and featuresevolved over time.
She started out with a verysimple training doll.
One of the first innovationsthat they had is that they were
(22:21):
weighted, so they correspondedto the average weight given out
by.
The very just formed earlyAmerican Medical Association was
giving out average weights foreach age and gender, so they
were weighted.
The very early ones had portsthat could be cleaned at the
orifices so the orifices areopen.
And then, as they developed,they would have a port in the
arm for an IV to be inserted ora way to learn how to use a
catheter all this kind of nittygritty nursing training.
It's just incredible to thinkthat nurses didn't have anything
(22:45):
but real patients to practiceon before this right.
Louisa Maxwell (22:49):
It's just it's a little scary when you think
about it.
Brett Day Windham (22:53):
It's very scary.
It's very scary.
And they got so good, thesetraining dolls, that she made
them adult size, child size,always weighted.
The very first doll, she namedher Mrs Demonstrator, mrs
Demonstrator and she MarthaChase one thing that I gathered
from one of my favorite booksthat I found to research, which
(23:15):
is called A Doll's House, whichwas written by the niece of one
of Martha Chase's employees atthe dollhouse.
Apparently, martha Chase was acut-up.
She was really funny and shewould dress Mrs Demon Strader in
one of her dresses.
She was exactly her height.
She made her five foot four,which is also my height, and she
would seat her at the dinnertable and invite her friends
(23:39):
over to dinner and everyone wasso polite that no one would
really say anything and shewould say, oh, mrs Strader,
would you like some peas, orwhatever it was, and finally she
would just break up laughing.
So she had a lot of fun withthis doll that was modeled after
her, but once it went over toHartford it became
affectionately known as MrsChase.
(24:00):
Oh, I love that there are a lotof stories.
Louisa Maxwell (24:05):
How did you find out about that story?
Where was the source?
Because that's wonderful.
Brett Day Windham (24:08):
Yeah.
So the source is thisincredible book called A Doll's
House and it was published onthe occasion of a Martha Chase
exhibition.
That happened at the RhodeIsland Historical Society, I
think in 1986.
And my copy of the book is nowin the exhibition, which breaks
my heart because it became mylittle totem that I carried
(24:29):
around with me everywhere forsix months and because it was
written in the 80s by a familymember of an employee.
She had access to a lot ofpeople while they were still
alive to do first-personinterviews, and I found one copy
of the book on Amazon, a usedlibrary copy, and I haven't seen
(24:50):
another.
So that's why I felt that therewas enough import to include it
in the exhibition, because itreally gave me a lot of these
really funny stories.
There was another one about afire nearby on the street from
the dollhouse and the firemenwere using the parking area
(25:10):
behind the dollhouse, which wasthe garage behind her house, to
stage their firefighting effortsand the flames were
illuminating the windows in thegarage.
And she saw the firemen startto get alarmed because when you
could see in the windows therewere all of these dolls hanging
by the neck, at all differentsizes from child to adult, these
(25:32):
silhouettes of people hangingand she just laughed and laughed
and laughed and watched themget more and more agitated and
then finally went and told themwhat was going on and invited
them inside and everybody had agood laugh.
But I think you just can't gethelp but them get more and more
agitated.
And then finally went and toldthem what was going on and
invited them inside andeverybody had a good laugh.
But I think you just can't gethelp but get really attached to
her when you hear stories likethat.
Louisa Maxwell (25:51):
She sounds like such a great personality and so
down to earth, and I thinkthat's the key to her success.
Yes, she had an artist's eye,she had all this talent.
She was able to use the fabricsand the paints and start this
whole thing off.
And I think this humor, thisenergy she just completely
(26:13):
bypasses our image of aVictorian woman and, after all,
the driver behind her search forcleanliness and combining
medical principles along withtoy design really is fueled by
the fact that child mortality inthis era is very high.
There are no antibiotics If youget an infection, if you get
(26:35):
the measles, the mumps, ascarlet fever and then TB was a
big killer.
I hate to say this.
Brett Day Windham (26:43):
No, the Spanish flu came through Rhode
Island Well this is it.
Louisa Maxwell (26:46):
This is in the early 20th century.
People still are battling thosediseases.
So Martha Chase's energy andher foresight were wonderful,
because she's seeing thatcleanliness is important in the
nursery.
Brett Day Windham (27:03):
I agree, and I think the fact that she called
them sanitary dolls reallyspoke to those concerns and that
she made dolls of all skincolors black, brown, white
because she really wanted toeducate the general public
really about how to keep thingsclean and not just how to play,
not just how to be maternal, buthow to keep things clean,
Because she had a front row seatto all of these ailments and
(27:25):
illnesses that could take peopledown so quickly.
Louisa Maxwell (27:29):
Are any of Martha Chase's black baby dolls?
Because I've seen them, I'veseen pictures of them and
they're utterly charming.
Are any of these lovely dollsin the exhibition?
Brett Day Windham (27:39):
They are not.
They are not and I was reallydisappointed not to be able to
(28:07):
get my hands on an example,because they are really charming
.
They were commemor research.
I found this wonderful woman,wonderful resource, debbie
Garrett.
She is the founder of theVirtual Black Doll Museum and
she had some Black Martha Chasebaby dolls on her website and I
reached out to her and she wasincredibly generous in sending
us an image of her doll and justgiving me some of her thoughts
(28:30):
on what she thought about themand how she approached them.
And I was really thrilled todiscover that we were on the
same page, that these dolls weremade with the best of
intentions and were made to bebeautiful, and she did not
intend to disparage orcaricature the Black faces or
ideas or anything that she wasdoing.
(28:52):
It was really genuine and withaffection and it was really
important for me to speak with aBlack woman, an
African-American woman, abouther thoughts, because my
thoughts as a white womanthey're kind of beside the point
.
So, debbie, I really amgrateful to Debbie and her
website and her resource fortalking to me about those Black
(29:13):
dolls.
So we included that in ourmuseum guide, which is available
at the entrance to the galleryfor everyone.
They're free.
You can take them away.
They have full color pictures,so that was a way that we'll
work around that we found toinclude them.
Louisa Maxwell (29:27):
Will the museum guide be online at any point, or
is there a link where we couldread it?
Brett Day Windham (29:32):
That's a great question.
I know that a lot of theresearch that's in the museum
guide is on the museum's websiteand I know that the museum
guide exists in online format,so I could certainly inquire
about having that added.
Louisa Maxwell (29:48):
Because we'll give links to the website and
we'll give links to the guide,because it's really important to
grow in our knowledge of MarthaChase and how she was
representing all cultures at thetime and all Americans at the
time, because she's a snapshotof America right then at the end
of the 19th and beginning ofthe 20th century, and when we
(30:11):
see how progressive and how shewas just such a wonderful force
for change and for innovationit's inspiring to know there's a
woman like that in our history.
Brett Day Windham (30:23):
Especially because she was living in a time
where there was still childlabor in the textile mills in
the town where she lived thatshe was, you know, a founder of,
and there were all of theseNative American people had been
displaced, just forced out toform this town, and there were
(30:44):
enslaved people being broughtinto the community and being
brought to the Caribbean as partof the triangle trade to grow
the cotton, to make the textiles, and so she benefited from all
of this exploitation.
So the fact that she was ableto take this sort of aerial look
, step back, use her privilegeto take a bigger picture, look
(31:06):
at her community and at the waythat the country was being built
, and just be magnanimous andjust say no, I don't stand for
this.
I believe in children and Ibelieve in kindness and empathy,
and I think that that's alsoreally just at the heart of who
she was.
Louisa Maxwell (31:24):
The other thing about her is that she's thinking
about children and play andinnovation.
And, of course, the thing welove about Martha's dolls is
that not only are theyrepresenting her society and
bringing it a step forward andcuing us into a moment in
history in the progressive era,but she designed her dolls to be
(31:45):
played with I read thatsometimes when they lost a limb
or were victims of a child withan artistic bent and we've all
done that at some point.
Martha Chase had a hospital forher dolls, where dolls could be
repaired and sometimesrepainted.
Today, collectors argue a lotabout.
(32:06):
Only an original, untoucheddoll is a true representation of
the artist's original work.
So how do we work with that?
How do we identify an originalMartha Chase doll today?
And if we notice that that dollhas restoration or repair done
in the Chase factory, how doesit affect that doll?
(32:28):
Is it documented?
Brett Day Windham (32:30):
There are telltale signs, there are ways
to tell if a doll has beenrestored, how recently it's been
restored, how professionallyit's been restored.
I think that for me, as anartist, I'm really interested in
the story.
So repairs and evidence of adoll being loved add to that
(32:51):
history for me and that patinaFor serious doll collectors and
institutions.
I understand that they aresetting a standard so that we
have something to bounce off ofand they really want to see the
most pristine example of whatthe doll maker intended the doll
to look like.
I kind of think Martha Chase isan exception because she wanted
(33:14):
her dolls to be played with.
Louisa Maxwell (33:16):
I mean with restoration, when we think of
Martha Chase's restoration,because she had this panel of
artists, she really had expertsto take these dolls in and keep
the look, keep the aspect,because they were made in-house.
Yeah.
Brett Day Windham (33:33):
Yeah, it's an incredible thing.
I mean, I think, as with MadameAlexander, who grew up, you
know, her father repaired dollsand then she became a doll maker
.
I think there's a real line ofcontinuity between the two, of
understanding that dolls getbroken.
Louisa Maxwell (33:45):
It's amazing to think about all these wonderful
people working in the doll'shouse and the sense of community
.
It seems to be that herbusiness was something that had
such a great impact on so manypeople's lives.
So she really did live up toher progressive values, didn't
she?
Brett Day Windham (34:06):
She really did.
She's very inspiring and youknow, as someone who grew up
here, she's a real personalinspiration to me.
As part of my research I triedto kind of retrace her steps
around the community and I wasreally disappointed that her
house and workshop are now gone.
But my art studio is inPawtucket, less than a mile from
(34:30):
where she lived, so I was ableto kind of retrace her stomping
grounds.
And then we have a very, verybeautiful cemetery in Providence
called Swan Point Cemetery andyou can use an app or the kiosk
at the entrance to the cemeteryto find where loved ones are
buried.
There are quite a few notablepeople who are buried there.
(34:52):
So I was able to go and find hergrave, which was really
meaningful to me, and I justfound myself going deeper and
deeper and deeper into myresearch of her, my wonderful
allyship with the Rhode IslandHistorical Society, who lent
dolls to the exhibition and whomI'm still working with, and I
called my mother and told herabout the work that I was doing
(35:13):
and how.
You know we grew up on thecorner of Jenks Street, so that
was my first clue that this wassomebody who was going to hit
really close to home for me andmy mother said you know, I've
just been doing all thisgenealogical work because I did
one of those DNA website thingsand we already knew that we were
(35:35):
related to Abigail Adams.
So is Martha Chase?
She's your cousin.
Louisa Maxwell (35:44):
Yes, so at the very end, this is like one of
those reveals on one of thoseprograms and wow.
Brett Day Windham (35:54):
So she is my cousin through my mother's side,
the Day family.
My maternal grandfather was aDay, my maternal grandmother was
a May.
Being from a Mayflower familyis a very fraught thing for me.
I don't feel proud of itnecessarily because of the
behavior of the colonists.
(36:14):
It's interesting, it's aprivilege to be able to trace
your lineage.
A lot of Americans don't havethat privilege, but it was
really wonderful for me to findout that the Day family, who
were one generation in front ofAbigail Adams, were actually
abolitionists and moved fromConnecticut to Vermont and
(36:36):
really upheld those beliefs.
And then the other branch of thefamily was Martha Jenks.
Martha Jenks Chase was her, Ithink great-grandmother was a
Brown and the woman she was anAdams.
Her maiden name was Adams andshe married a Brown.
So the Browns are an incrediblyproblematic slave-owning family
(36:59):
but the Adams were not.
So we come from this same lineof concerned, thoughtful,
sensitive, hopeful people and itwas really incredible, after
going down this incredibly deepresearch, just falling into this
(37:20):
well and sort of falling inlove with this woman, to find
out that we were related.
Louisa Maxwell (37:24):
That is astounding.
I really have to say thatyou've woven a tapestry now of
American history, moving allthese threads together, of this
wonderful output of work byMartha Jenks, chase and then all
these families interleaving andcoming together, with the
(37:46):
positives but also the negatives.
That's something we'reexploring now in society and
that's an important thing for usto start to recognize that we
need to understand our history.
So this is extraordinary thatyou have found so many amazing
things to bring together toshare with us today, and they'll
all be shared in the Barry ArtMuseum and this wonderful
(38:08):
exhibition.
Of all the dolls you looked atand worked with in this
exhibition, is there one thatstands out for you?
Is there one of them that youreally feel in tune with?
Oh, that's a really goodquestion.
Brett Day Windham (38:24):
I love them all.
I love the original Mrs Chasedoll, which is still on display
at Hartford Hospital I think thebaby dolls, because they were
the first dolls of hers that Iwas able to hold and touch and
experience and they are from thefirst couple of years of her
company, so I know that her handwas directly involved.
(38:46):
And just the beauty that Italked about at the beginning of
the episode, of each part ofthe doll being so beautifully
and carefully rendered and justhaving this really special
moment at the Historical Societywith the doll, unearthing her
from her packaging, looking ather just angelic face, and it
was a really memorableexperience.
Louisa Maxwell (39:08):
That's a very beautiful experience you've
shared and you've shared so muchwith us.
Brett Day Windham, thank you somuch for joining us on the Doll
Podcast telling us all thedetails of the exhibition.
We're going to have lots oflinks to as much of this
knowledge as we can share withour audience.
Brett Day Windham (39:27):
Thank you so much for having me, because I'm
obviously passionate about thisstory and it's wonderful to be
able to share it and not justkeep it all inside.
I want to sort of sing herpraises from the rooftops, so I
really appreciate you having meon the show.
Louisa Maxwell (39:44):
Well, it's been really wonderful.
Thank you, brett.
Thank you for joining us on theDoll Podcast.
The exhibition at the Barry ArtMuseum Martha Chase Progressive
Kindness continues until July28, 2024.
To find out more about theexhibition, to see pictures of
(40:08):
Martha Chase and her dolls andto get links to lots of
interesting information, just goto our website,
wwwdollpodcastcom.
We look forward to welcomingyou the next time.
Thank you.
(40:48):
Copyright The Doll Podcast andLouisa Maxwel
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