September 2, 2025 • 51 mins
Have you ever wondered why you keep facing the same challenges over and over? That irritating coworker, family conflict, or professional disappointment might actually be a divine test revealing what's in your heart.
In this transformative episode, we unpack the crucial difference between God's testing and Satan's temptation. Testing from God proves our trustworthiness and readiness for greater purpose, while temptation lures us away from our divine calling. Understanding this distinction completely changes how we respond to life's difficulties.
We share vulnerable personal stories about facing tests of patience, overcoming self-righteousness, finding courage for public speaking, and healing from childhood wounds. These real-world examples illuminate how God often tests us in the very areas where we've prayed for growth. As one of us discovered in New York City and the other in Washington DC, God frequently arranges real-time testing opportunities that align perfectly with what He's teaching us.
The practical tools we provide help you discern whether you're being tested or tempted. Learn to examine the source (does it draw you closer to Jesus or pull you away?), the method (does it invite trust or offer shortcuts?), and the fruit (does it produce freedom or shame?). We also explore how unforgiveness can become a dangerous temptation that keeps us trapped in the past instead of moving toward God's best future.
As C.S. Lewis noted, hardships produce extraordinary things in ordinary people. Or as Steve Harvey wisely observed, true success comes not from taking the elevator but by climbing the stairs—each step preparing you for what's ahead. Take this journey with us and discover how testing, though challenging, transforms your heart and deepens your relationship with God.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
So here we are.
We've been traveling all overAmerica, or at least the East
Coast anyway.
That's right, where have youbeen?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I went to DC on a couple-day trip with my mom.
It was super fun.
You know I was born and raisedthere and so we went back and
played Taurus because there'sbeen a bunch of new museums and
stuff that have opened up theHolocaust Museum and Museum of
the Bible, which were reallyincredible.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The Holocaust Museum wow, that's amazing.
And you got to go away withyour mom.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I know we had beautiful weather, we rode bikes
, it was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I love it.
Was it pure joy?
Was everything blissful?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It was.
I will say we had a moment ofare we going to go?
Because literally I don't watchthe news anymore, but the day
before we took the trip, allthis stuff, have you seen what's
happening in DC, when PresidentTrump announced that I might be
releasing military policetaking over the city?
So we had a moment where wethought, uh, should we change
(01:07):
our trip?
We hadn't heard anything aboutthis, but I've got to tell you
we didn't see any evidence ofthat.
Now, we weren't out frolicking,you know, to the wee hours of
the night by any means, but itwas peaceful in the city.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
That's good because they're saying it's one of the
top uh murder cap per capita inthe world.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's good because they're saying it's one of the
top murder per capita in theworld.
Really it's crazy, wow, and sothat's why.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Over Chicago.
That's what's scary about it,yeah, and to think that it's in
our capital is just mind-blowing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So hopefully they get it cleaned up, because it's
such a beautiful place andpeople living there obviously
need and deserve the peace.
Yeah, so I do know that there'sa couple little things that
spurred up while you were in DC,but I'm not going to ask you
directly what it is in themoment because I think it's a
great tie-in to what we're goingto talk about.
(01:55):
Testing mini-tests what?
we're going to talk about today,which is testing, and
oftentimes, when we arepreparing to share what God has
laid on our hearts, he actuallyhas us walk it out real time,
right, yeah, and so it's notsome far-in-the-past experience,
it's actually.
We're living it out day by day,and I found myself in New York
(02:16):
City this past week, getting togo up there for a work
conference and it was wonderfulwith all the things that New
York has to offer.
And I can say the introvert inme oh, I was tested and I'll
share a little bit more about mytestings, but one of the huge
blessings that came out, and itwas because of the influx of the
(02:52):
people from Ireland.
The Irish they came in and theywanted a church and so it was
obviously fashioned after StPatrick.
And what a beautiful cathedral.
I wasn't raised in the CatholicChurch.
I kissed the edges of itbecause my mom was raised
Catholic.
But as I've grown in myrelationship with Christ, I have
(03:17):
a deep respect for just theorigins of our faith.
How did we become an actuallyorganized church?
We know that God actuallyfashioned creation, so faith is
actually through creation.
But how did mankind organizeand create religion?
And obviously there's a lot ofroots back to the Catholic
Church.
So just to be in that place andjust spend some time in prayer
(03:41):
and I did the deeds of lightingcandles for those that I love
and just praying for it was justsacred, sacred time, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
What about the introverted test part?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, we'll get more into that how God was saving
that.
Yeah, you really want to talkabout testing in an upcoming
Double Dose podcast.
Well, I'm going to show youwhat it means to be tested real
time.
But the other blessing I willjust share real quick is that my
husband joined me in New York,so he's a.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
New Yorker through and through.
I've heard of him.
I didn't realize that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So he didn't get to join me till later on in the
week but still nonetheless wegot some really good food in,
got some quality time and alwaysseeing the city through his
eyes.
Because he was born and raisedin New York, it's always fun to
do that city with him.
Yeah, but yeah.
So let's dig into what we'reactually going to talk about
today.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah.
So testing it's confusing,right.
Most of us don't typically signup for it voluntarily.
It can be frustrating,downright unfair, but we're
hoping that everybody openstheir heart today.
Right, because I would say,imagine that if we could walk
through everything the testingand then temptations with
(04:49):
complete faith and peace, youknow it's transforming.
Right, because when weunderstand what God is doing in
and through these things, weface all of those hardships
completely differently.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, it's often said .
I don't know if you've heardthis, but I've often heard
people say that God doesn't testus, that Satan is the one who
does the testing, and that'sactually unbiblical.
So there's two things that areactually rivaling each other,
side by side.
Testing is from the Lord and itreally shows what's in our
(05:25):
heart.
Right, that's what God shows us.
And then temptation is what theenemy does to lure us and
entice us away from the thingsof the Lord.
And the thing that's just tokind of put a highlighter on
this point God knows thecondition of the human heart.
God created us from a place oflove, and so in God's love, he
(05:50):
tests us to draw forward what hewants to transform.
Where Satan, he doesn't havecompassion for the human heart,
he doesn't have compassion forus and he comes to kill, steal
and destroy.
So anything he does toward usis to devour us, and so it's
really important to kind ofpulse check where we're at in
the day.
Is this for us or is thisagainst us?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, that's so good.
Something you just said I thinkis important to highlight, and
that is that God already knowswhat's in our hearts.
But when he tests us, it's notbecause he doesn't know, but
it's to show us what's inside.
And I think more often than notwe think we know, but until we
(06:33):
are actually tested, that's whenwe find out.
Oftentimes one of our headpastors, pastor Penny, says when
you get squeezed, it's in thatmoment what comes out is what's
inside you.
So God used tests to show usthat the things that we still
have to work on, Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So let's get into the definition of what these things
are.
So testing, it's from the Lord.
It's a purposeful proving thatmatures our obedience, character
and trust in the Lord.
It's a refining.
It's not random, it's actuallyvery intentional.
And if we look at James 1,verses 2 and 3, we actually see
(07:14):
it says consider it pure joy, mybrothers, when you encounter
trials of many kinds.
Verse 3 actually goes on to saybecause you know that the
testing of your faith developsperseverance.
And this is the interestingthing about that word testing
it's actually from the Greekword dokimion.
Try to say that three times,fast, ok.
(07:36):
But what does that Greek wordactually mean?
It means it's a proving oftrustworthiness.
That's good, ok.
It's a proving oftrustworthiness, that's good,
okay.
And so how much can God?
When God comes in and tests us,he's asking how much can I
trust you in my relationshipwith you?
It's like, how much do we trustthe Lord?
(07:57):
He's actually asking us too howmuch can I trust you, because I
have plans and purposes for you, and are you ready to have your
territory widened?
And so that proving trustworthyactually opens the door for his
purposes, and his purposes isto save as many souls as
possible, yeah, okay.
(08:17):
So that's super, superimportant.
Then if we kind of flip the coinand we look at temptation which
is not from God, it's anenticement to sin.
It often exploits a desire ofpride or fear in our heart.
It ends in separation, shameand even death.
In James 1.13, it says whentempted, no one should say God
(08:42):
is tempting me, for God cannotbe tempted by evil, nor does he
tempt anyone.
So you can't get more clearerthan that.
The Lord does not tempt,because the Lord does not
participate in evil, becauseevil draws us away from the Lord
.
And if we look at that wordtempt, here's another one.
It's perazo.
Okay, in the Greek it'sactually a personification of
(09:07):
the word test.
So it's where the test becomespersonified into the tempter.
And so here we have that weactually have a real being that
is actually putting thetemptation on human flesh as the
(09:27):
personification of it.
Wow, it's just really wild whenyou sit in that.
But this is the tricky thing.
God can initiate a test To seehow trustworthy we are, yeah,
and then the enemy can comeright in the middle of that test
and tempt us.
What's an example?
(09:47):
Okay, so take Jesus in thewilderness.
The Spirit led Jesus into thewilderness and Satan came as the
tempter to say did God reallysay to live on bread alone?
Sure, you don't want some ofthis food, okay.
And so the reality is and thisis where we really need to be in
(10:09):
this partnership with the Lordto say what am I being tested on
and what is the temptationthat's probably pulling me in
the test?
Does that make sense?
It does, yeah, and same thingSatan can tempt us, and then the
test is there.
So these two things are tightlycoupled, they are intertwined
(10:33):
and it's up to us and ourrelationship to pull them apart.
And I just want to give acouple more examples to really
drive it home.
As you said, so we got, godtested Abraham.
Okay, god tested Abraham andsaid are you really going to
trust me to give you a boy,isaac?
Right, and did he trust him?
No, he was tempted to do ithimself, and we know the
(10:56):
consequences of that.
Ishmael.
And we've had a train wreck on areligious war for thousands and
thousands of years.
God tested Israel, the entirenation of Israel, in Deuteronomy
8.
We find God is testing.
Are you really ready to receivethe promises that I have for
(11:17):
you in the promised land.
Do you love me with all yourheart, mind and soul?
Are you ready to receive thepromises that I've promised you?
And they kept proving no, theyweren't ready and they wandered
for 40 years because the testingkept producing the wrong fruit.
They weren't ready to receivethe blessing of the Lord.
We see Jesus in the wilderness,the story of Job, of course,
(11:40):
where we have Satan gotpermission to torment and to
tempt Job to actually curse God.
And Job proved faithful,trustworthy, and God gave him
double portion of everythingthat the enemy stole from him.
And so, time and time again,literally from Genesis through
(12:02):
Revelation, we can see these twothings at war with each other
the testing for thetrustworthiness of God's call
and then the temptation to pullus away from God, and those two
things coexist together.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I found some powerful sort of fast check tips
that can help us figure outwhat's the testing and what's
the temptation.
Where we can start by askingout what's the testing and
what's the temptation, where wecan start by asking what's the
source and what's the goal.
So if it's testing, does thisgive us an opportunity in our
response to become more likeJesus?
(12:35):
But if it's temptation, thenthe opportunity or the response
moves us away from Jesus.
That's an easy way to figurethat out.
Examining the method helps alot.
So testing, to your point inyour stories invites us to trust
and be more obedient, be morefaithful, to keep our eyes
(12:55):
fixated on the Lord.
And temptation offers us ashortcut like, yeah, I am hungry
, it's no, big deal I can take alittle taste right and moves us
away from God's word, and thenyou can look at the fruit right.
So testing will produceendurance and wisdom and freedom
and faithfulness.
(13:16):
But temptation will move ustypically into things like shame
and secrecy and confusion,disobedience yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I love that.
You know, sometimes too, itstarts off with something very
practical.
Okay, we get up at the crack ofdawn for us early birds, we
start to pray Father, our Father, who art in heaven, give us our
daily bread right.
And we go through the Lord'sPrayer and we're like, we want
to be more like you today, giveus the opportunities, et cetera.
(13:50):
And by 6 o'clock in the morning, if we have a dog, we're
stepping in a pile of poop inthe living room and we're like
OK, this is great, clean it upfor a source of frustration.
Then, if you got some kids Iknow I raised six kids the kids
are off schedule, they're notcooperating, they won't let you
do their hair, they're going tomiss the school bus and all of a
sudden you're going to be latefor work.
Then you get to work and who'sthe first person you ran into?
(14:12):
The person you don't like, theperson you don't want to see.
You didn't have any meetingswith that person today, so why
would that person be in yourpath to begin with?
They need to leave.
And I find myself I can speakLike have you ever heard the
little thing by Senator JohnKennedy?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yes, I was, I'm laughing because I'm going to
bring this up.
You realize that it's a problem, because when I laugh at it too
hard, you're like OK, that's aknowing laugh.
Do you want to tell it?
Go, go.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I just love it.
I laugh so hard every time Isee it.
I do too, and the baby versionof it, yes.
So if you're wondering what theheck we're talking about,
there's a little clip you can golook at at out on YouTube or
wherever you get your littlevideo shorts.
And it's uh, senator JohnKennedy.
And he says you know, I pray, Ipray, I want to be more like
Jesus I'm paraphrasing because Ican't do it as well as he does
(15:05):
but I want to follow Jesus, Ipray, I want to follow Jesus all
day long and I want to be thatgood Christian.
But you know what?
10 o'clock comes around and Istill want to follow Jesus, but
I want to slap the hell out ofsome people too.
I'm like I see myself in thatso much, 100%, but literally
just pausing on that humor,because there is some truth on
(15:26):
the other side of it.
That seems so innocent, right,and we're so desensitized to
that irritation, thatfrustration of the human sitting
in front of us, that we don'trealize that that could be a
repeat test, like a recordplayer that just keeps skipping
over and over and over again.
That God is saying are yougoing to handle this situation
differently today.
So true, or are you going toactually be more like me and are
(15:50):
you going to prove trustworthyin this situation?
Yeah, because chances are wemay be the only Jesus that they
get to see in that moment, inthat day.
Sure, and if their impressionof Jesus is how we show up and
we want to slap the hell out ofpeople, well, they probably
don't want any of the Jesusthat's in us, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
and it's completely human to have that feeling but
at least to start to have theawareness of it.
Exactly Such a huge piece ofthis is our free will right.
Two people can walk through thesame tests and it's your choice
in how you respond to thattesting and whether you're going
to grow or, you know, move awayfrom God.
(16:29):
So I mean, we're tested throughall kinds of things hardship,
suffering, loss, gosh, we'reeven tested, don't you think,
sometimes with like prosperityand success, because for some
people it can be hard.
In those times we forget ourreliance on the Lord or lose
sight of our humility and ourgratitude.
(16:51):
In those scenarios,relationships are a big one
conflict, betrayal, I meanrelationships tend to be some of
our hardest tests right, yes.
Okay, let's make this a littlebit more real with some examples
, some personal examples too,but let me start by anchoring us
in a simple one that we can alllikely relate to.
(17:11):
So let's assume that maybe you,and many of us, experienced
this.
You were excited about a newjob or a promotion within your
existing organization, and soyou prepped, you were ready.
This role was made for you.
It was written for you andyou're so excited, you feel like
(17:32):
everything's been preparing youfor this next step, and you go
in there and you nail theinterview.
And then what happens?
It goes to somebody else, yeah,maybe even somebody that you
know.
You just know wasn't even asqualified as you.
And so you know, naturallywe're wildly disappointed, right
(17:53):
.
But we have a choice.
We can doubt ourselves, we candoubt God, we can allow that
scenario to go.
Why do I even show up?
Why do I even bother?
Or try.
Is he even listening?
How could this have happened?
Or we can decide that maybehe's refining our patience,
(18:14):
maybe he is preparing us forsomething bigger, something
better, something better.
Our choice is to stay faithfuldespite that something didn't go
our way, or to move intoresentment, water cooler gossip,
things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
I actually had a real examplesimilar to what you just
described as a theoretical.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
It truly happened to you.
It truly happened to me.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
So I was so excited.
I got the interview for a CIOrole and this was my forte into
the C-suite and boy did I wantit with every piece of my being.
I mean, I had worked my tailoff for many years.
I deserved this role and thiswas the perfect company.
It was a service-basedorganization and they were going
(19:03):
to be building software and Iwas like I can build software,
I'm a software engineer by trade.
This is the perfect role.
It's kind of a hybrid ofbuilding technology but still,
you know, running an internal ITdepartment.
I crushed the interview, so I'msaying crushed it.
The founder or I should say itwas the CEO at the time, it was
(19:24):
the son-in-law of the founder wehit it off immediately.
He said to me he goes,angelique, say I don't give you
the title of CIO.
What if I gave you like a vicepresident role instead?
Would you be willing to take astep into the company to take
this role?
And I said no, because I'mready to be the CIO and I'm not
(19:44):
going to accept anything less bygolly.
And I was confident.
I like it Well that gentleman.
He was an adventurist, anadrenaline junkie, and he loved
my confidence and my demeanorand he's like you're on to the
next round, like this is amazing.
Well, he had an accident and soI got passed off to the number
(20:06):
two in the company and for somereason, there was this weird.
Just the chemistry wasn't thereand I could feel that he was
going to vote.
No, I could just feel it in mygut and I was like having this
inward turmoil going, oh my gosh, I'm not going to get it.
I'm not feel it in my gut and Iwas like having this inward
turmoil going, oh my gosh, I'mnot going to get it.
I'm not going to get it.
I want to go back to the otherguy and I want to talk to the
(20:29):
other guy.
Give me the guy that I liked.
And I ended up not getting therole.
And the executive recruiter wasdumbfounded.
He's like this role was madefor you.
I am shocked.
The feedback was overwhelminglypositive and I was just
devastated and I felt like thatguy was a jerk, the guy who
basically vetoed me out, and Ireally struggled with it For
(20:50):
multiple months.
I struggled with it.
Why God, why God?
And does it mean I'm not goingto get my opportunity?
And I ended up getting anotherrole in executive leadership and
it was a launchpad for many,many great things to come.
But what was crazy is, withinsix months of me taking the
other role at the otherorganization, the company went
(21:13):
out of business.
Oh wow, it was a sink shippingand I didn't even know it.
Yeah, and so you have no idea.
The no doesn't mean no forever,it's a not now and it's also a
hedge of protection when you'rewalking with the Lord.
And so many times I could tellyou countless times, my husband,
he's built quite a reputationin his field of commercial
(21:35):
baking.
Everybody knows who he is andthey all love him, and he has
many different opportunities.
He's constantly evaluating andso many times he has said no, no
, no.
And I'm like what are you doing?
Say yes, for God's sakes, andthen, literally within a few
quarters, lo and behold, thatcompany is in distress.
Oh, wow.
And he's like see, I knewsomething wasn't right.
(21:58):
So he's got this discerningspirit.
But just take the no as thankyou, lord, you're protecting me,
yeah, so, yeah, that's my-.
That's good, that's a goodstory, yeah, so what's?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
an example for you.
Well, so many times I thinkthat God has a really good sense
of humor when we pray forpatience and then he throws us
into opportunities to developour patience.
You know, or wisdom, or courage, or I mean insert fill in the
blank here but for me, I thinkof you know, what's very real
(22:31):
and alive, you know, sittinghere in this chair, is how, for
years, I would pray for publicspeaking confidence.
I would pray for publicspeaking confidence and you
would think, you know, in allthe years of business and
leadership and whatnot, that I'dalready have that or that you'd
have to have it in order to besuccessful.
But it's just, it's different,don't you think?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It definitely comes with a different weight.
You feel a weight ofresponsibility to make sure
you're speaking truth andhonoring the Lord yeah, which is
different than doing a businesspresentation and showing if I
invest in ABC, you're going toget XYZ on the other end yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And I think one of the things that he keeps showing
me with that is well, no, I'mnot going to give you public
speaking confidence, but what Iwill give you is courage, public
speaking confidence, but what Iwill give you is courage and
I'm going to give you and throwyou into these opportunities to
develop the public speakingconfidence and I think it's.
You know Jesus knows, like youand I know, that there's a
(23:35):
spiritual and neuroscienceconnection.
So a lot like you know wedevelop our muscles by putting
them under stress.
I think you know Jesus, in someof his testing, is much you
know like that.
So you know I go back tofinding this church and I think
you know immediately I was givenlots of opportunities to begin
(23:59):
to develop this.
So you know getting thrown intothe authentic women's conference
.
You know standing on theplatform and speaking in front
of auditorium of hundreds ofwomen and and, frankly,
thousands more because it'stelevised and, by the way, you
crushed it Globally.
But I mean, every time I wouldstep on that platform I would be
(24:22):
wildly nervous.
Every part of it did not feelgood.
I was so uncomfortable and somany times I thought why are you
choosing to sign up for thisfeeling Like there's plenty of
other women out there who wouldgo pick me Like I love doing it,
(24:43):
throw me up there.
But again I just kept feelingthis nudge from the Lord that
said trust me, be faithful, stepout in courage Again.
I'm not going to give you justlike that, the public speaking
confidence, but I will give youcourage, and I mean the amazing
and then this right.
I mean the amazing and thenthis right.
I mean this podcast.
(25:03):
He drops that vision on both ofour hearts and even through
that, you know, I said to you,I'm like I know that I'm
supposed to be a part of this,but I'm not convinced.
I'm supposed to be in front ofthe camera and frankly, I don't
know that I'm 100% stillconvinced.
But you know, what has happenedagain is I keep showing up, and
(25:32):
I'll tell you what candidly.
This last episode is the firstepisode where, for the first
time, I picked up this cup andmy hand wasn't doing this when I
went to drink.
So I mean, the beautiful thingthat I'm learning and it really
is beautiful is that theconfidence doesn't come, you
know, based on the outcome.
It really is being developedfrom showing up, feeling the
(25:56):
fear and doing it anyway, havingthat courage, regardless of the
outcome.
It's coming in the effort, it'sthe obedience.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, god blesses the obedience, not the pathway of
obedience.
Yeah, I love that.
So I have a similar story tothat as well.
I don't know if you know this,but I find that very hard to
believe.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I thought you'd think you just popped out.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I'm so ready to go.
You're so funny.
I was called motor Mouth andTurbo Mouth as a child.
So I was a very energetic child.
I had so much enthusiasm.
I was incredibly positive.
I was just bubbly.
I was bubbly, bubbly, bubbly.
And I love to communicate andso.
(26:40):
I earned the name Turbo Mouthand Motor Mouth.
And for years though, Kids areso mean.
Oh yeah.
Well, it was actually adultswho spoke it over me, yeah, the
ones that were supposed to, Iwould say, encourage and nurture
the gifts and talents that Godput in me.
It became cursed, and so Iactually really shied away from
(27:03):
public speaking and I refused todo it Like I was.
At one point in time, I wantedto go into theater and then,
because I felt like my voice wastoo prominent, I pulled out.
I pulled away.
I wanted to go into newscastingor advertising.
I pulled out because I feltlike my voice was going to
overwhelm people, and so thathas been something that I've had
(27:24):
to heal from.
So this is the test, like Godwill say are you really healed?
Because do those thoughts ofthe enemy still come up and tell
you that your voice is toooverbearing or you're talking
too much, or whatever thenarrative is?
That narrative absolutely popsinto my head and I have to fight
(27:46):
through it and say, no, god'scalled me to speak, he named me
Angelique for His sake, and so Ihave to fight and push through
that.
So different lens, but it'slike the opposite end.
So you're coming from one lens,I'm coming from the other lens,
and God put us together, butthat's what he does.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I know.
But what I hear in that wholestory is and we were talking
about this earlier that from themoment that you're conceived in
the womb there is a calling onyour life and everyone that
knows you is so grateful foryour communication and your
wisdom and the fact that youshare it.
(28:22):
And clearly one of the biggestcallings on your life is to
spread the gospel and the powerof a relationship with Jesus
Christ.
So if you, that was the enemyyour whole life, trying to
prevent you from stepping intothe very thing that you're doing
today, See, even you sayingthat makes my skin just come up.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
It's like, oh no, I'm still wrestling with it, even
in this moment, where one Idon't want the spotlight put on
me.
I want it put on Jesus and Idon't ever want to be talking
too much that it takes the gloryfrom Him, Do you?
know, what I mean.
Yeah, and that voice, and somany people have told me I love
(29:05):
listening to you.
I love that, yes, and it makesme coil.
It's like no, no, no.
You love what you're hearingand you love the Lord.
That's what I want you to say,and God's even teaching me that.
That's my own pride in my ownheart, that this notion of I
don't want to take His gloryit's me being prideful.
I can't take His glory.
(29:25):
He's God Like who am I?
Great point, fair enough.
Who am I?
And so I know this in my headbut, there's a difference when
His peace actually covers yourentire being, and I'm still a
work in progress in this area.
So, like you, I take steps offaith, knowing in my heart why I
do it, and you just got totrust Him with the rest, yeah,
(29:45):
yeah, yeah.
So what's one of Actually I'mgoing to Do, you mind if I just
back up and I want to shareanother story.
So that's more of how the enemywill tempt us and try to tear
us down, away from the purposesthat God has called us to.
Yeah, and then there's testingin that from the Lord, can I
(30:06):
trust you with the purposes thatI've placed on you even from
the conception in the womb?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I want to share something that I've struggled
with just in my flesh when itcomes to actually loving people.
Yeah, okay, okay.
And so when I first became aChristian, I've known the Lord
my whole life, but when I reallystarted to say I declare that
he's the Lord of my life and I'mgoing to start following Him I
had a lot of compassion forpeople around me because I could
(30:34):
see my own sin.
I could see the pit that I wasin and that God saved me from
that pit.
He saved me from bad choices,destructive choices and things
that weren't producing the fruitof the Lord.
So I had a lot of compassion, alot of empathy for people who
did stupid stuff and I wouldwant to save them.
Ok, as I've become more likeChrist over the years, I have
(31:00):
found that I've actuallydeveloped self-righteousness.
That I've actually developedself-righteousness and my
empathy and my compassion hascome with strings attached,
meaning that I've started to bea little calloused towards
stupid choices Like why are youdoing that stupid thing?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Da-da-da.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And what God has done through me having six children
is any time thatself-righteousness, that pious
position, starts to rear up inme.
I find that one of my childrendo something stupid.
Yeah, okay, and it could beliterally like.
It could be literally as them,like when they were little, not
(31:45):
obeying me and, just you know,being jerks to each other in the
house.
And the day before we were atthe pool and there was another
family where two siblingsweren't getting along and the
parents didn't have control overthe two kids, and I would be
like they need to get their kidsunder control.
And the very next day I'd belooking at my own situation
(32:06):
going holy cow, my kids aren'tunder control, but I wouldn't
see it.
And then all of a sudden itwould be repeat, repeat, repeat.
And then all of a sudden, godused their misbehavior or their
lack of obedience to formcompassion in me, to then not be
so judgmental on the twoparents that didn't have their
kids under control.
(32:26):
Okay, fast forward that.
As kids age, you know,consequences get bigger and
bigger and bigger, and so ifthey do something stupid, the
impact radius is probably goingto be larger.
And I have seen my children,you know, not make some of the
best choices in the world, andthe consequences are going to be
different and my empathy and mycompassion and my love
(32:54):
increases for them, which thenalso increases my capacity to
love others openly in the world.
So I may not be coming from alens of judgment, and so the
real testing that God is puttingon me even right now, in this
real season, is where is my ownself-righteousness?
The test is this when is my ownself-righteousness, walking
(33:17):
with the Lord for a coupledecades, getting in the way of
having compassion and love forthe people that he's literally
putting right in front of me,whether that be the people in my
family, the people that I go towork with every day, the people
that I run into on the street?
I mean my heart in New Yorkbroke.
I went to bed, get choked upjust talking about it.
I went to bed crying Because ofwhat you saw right the
(33:40):
homelessness, the drug addictionon the street it's horrible,
horrible.
People just literally crackedout on the street.
It's horrible, yeah, horrible,like people just literally
cracked out on the side, like Iwas shocked, yeah, and I mean,
I've been to New York so manytimes, I lived there for a
decade and I hadn't seen, Ihadn't seen with my eyes, like
(34:01):
what God showed me, yeah, justbreaks my heart.
And so the testing in thisseason of my life is what is God
opening my eyes to?
Which is where am I praying forsomething to change?
But it's not changing.
And what's the lesson I'msupposed to learn?
What's the test?
(34:21):
What is he trying to get me tolet go of so he can increase my
trustworthiness for the weightof his calling that he's put on
me?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So good, you know, yeah.
So yeah, I know that's a.
Tests were through my divorce.
So when we kicked off thedouble dose, we shared our
testimonies and they're outthere for folks who aren't
familiar.
But God definitely asked me alot of questions through that
and I would say that his testingand that were things like will
(35:15):
you trust?
me to lay this down what youthought that your life would
look like and lean intosomething completely, you know,
uncertain.
You know, will you let me usethis hardship and write a new
story that looks different,rather than clinging to your own
?
You know, I had to lay downwhat felt safe to me and, quite
frankly, up until that point,dysfunction did feel a little
(35:36):
safer than something healthy.
You know, will you let that go?
Will you step out of the waterand stop pushing the life
preserver to somebody else andfocus on yourself?
Let me write a new story.
So those are the things that Ithink of.
And boy am I so grateful that Isaid yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Took a while, but still I saidyes.
(35:58):
And boy has he done more than Icould possibly think, imagine
or pray for Isn't it crazy?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It's like the speed in which we can get to let go.
Let God, and we can see thefruit of the.
Lord on the other side, andthat's kind of like the
heartbeat behind what we'resharing today is how fast can we
actually identify what God'strying to get us to let go of so
we can get to where he needs usto be, which is so much better
than where we are in the moment?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Let's move away from the testing and into temptation.
So we know again that testingcomes from the Lord to make us
more like Him, to increase ourtrustworthiness for what all he
has for us in relationship withHim and for His purposes for the
world.
And temptation moves us awayfrom those things and it kills,
steal and destroy.
So what would be a greatexample of what this starts to
(36:49):
look like in action?
The temptation.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.
So let's say you've beenmarried a long time and you have
, you know, and maybe you'resomeone who's been feeling a
little underappreciated or, youknow, taken for granted.
That happens probably in everymarriage at some point.
If you've been married longenough, right.
But you show up at work andyou've got that co-worker who
(37:13):
always notices your new outfitor your new hairdo.
You know they're funny, theycompliment you, you feel noticed
, maybe, and affirmed in a waythat you haven't in a long time,
and that attention makes youfeel desirable.
And so you think, well, this isno big deal, I'm not doing
(37:36):
anything wrong, I'm not doinganything at all.
It feels harmless, and maybeyou even use that word deserve
Like feels harmless, and maybeyou even use that word deserve
like I deserve to laugh andflirt and you know, have fun at
work, kind of thing.
But you know, if you look at thelife cycle and all of that, you
know the enemy is the one who'swhispering.
(37:58):
You're not doing anything wrong, you know there's it's no big
deal, but God never tempts us.
So that would never be a testfrom God.
But he does provide an escape.
So where he is in.
It was probably the moment thatit crossed your mind that you
even started to justify I'm notdoing anything wrong, right, I
(38:23):
deserve that.
I mean, isn't that kind of hiswhisper?
And then I think what you'llfind is so that's the first
hello.
But then maybe a song comes on.
You know that God just placedat the right time, or a friend,
the kind of friend that wouldsay, the kind of friend that
(38:53):
would say you're walking adangerous path, happens to call,
or a verse pops in your mind.
Those are the moments where Godis there going, offering you a
path out.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You said something incredibly profound and I just
want to put a highlighter on it.
You said that God doesn't causethe temptation, but he provides
a pathway out.
Yes, always he provides apathway out.
Resist the devil and he has toflee, and so that is such an
incredible truth that I justwant our listeners to rest in.
(39:21):
What is the pathway out?
You could even go back to thecalling and the purposes that
God has for your life Speak,speak, speak, lean into the
podcast, lean into these publicspeaking opportunities.
And how many times has the songI was made for more, god made
you for more?
All of a sudden, that song popson the radio.
That's a real live example.
That just happened to merecently.
(39:42):
That caused it, but I think whatI would like for folks to
realize is that temptationdoesn't have to always look big.
It doesn't have to be the biggotchas that we talked about in
episode six.
It can be the small, subtlelies that the enemy wants to get
in there, that you know whatthe scraps off of God's tables
(40:05):
are.
Good enough.
You don't need the seven-coursemeal that God has to offer you.
You're worthy of the scraps onthe floor.
No, god has called you setapart, you are a part of a royal
priesthood and you deserve theseven-course meal.
So buck up and start eating theseven courses and stop living
(40:25):
on the dog scraps right.
Another one that I think we allhave to be careful on, because
Jesus talked about it a lot andhe said that the cost of this is
death.
Okay, the cost of this one isdeath If we don't be quick to
forgive.
Wow, and there's so many.
(40:46):
I can speak for my own life.
I have been right in not havingto forgive because they hurt me
.
They did something soincredulous that they do not
deserve my forgiveness and I'mjust going to sit here and be
right now.
Or actually, let me say it thisway Rewind.
I forgive.
(41:06):
Forgive them, but I will notforget.
I will forgive them and I willnot forget.
That is very dangerous.
Okay, of course, we're notgoing to forget, we're going to
walk in wisdom and all that canbe true.
Yeah, but if the I will notforget is actually harboring
unforgiveness which 99 of the itis we're basically saying we
(41:26):
have a free pass not to extendforgiveness.
God knows what's in the heart.
Again, we're not here to judgethe human heart.
God does that, but he says thatyou will be forgiven to the
measure that you offerforgiveness.
And God died on the cross thatwe may have salvation.
And again, look at the log inyour own eye before you.
Look at the speck in yourbrother.
So there's a lot around.
(41:47):
Where is it easy to get caughtup in the snare of the enemy?
Unforgiveness is a big one.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, that could be a whole episode unto itself.
Really that's a big one.
I mean it just keeps poison inyour heart.
Right and learning.
I had to learn the differencebetween forgiveness and
reconciliation, and learning Ihad to learn the difference
between forgiveness andreconciliation, where
forgiveness absolutely releasesyou but you don't have to
reconcile.
So, rather than call it, I willnot forget sometimes I will not
(42:18):
reconcile but, I'll fully,fully forgive.
Otherwise you're living in thepast right and, to your point,
it's keeping you from God's bestkind of next onward, upward
right.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, well, we said it, I think, at the start, I
think you even said it that partof the outcome of passing a
test of the Lord is that itbrings the fruit of the Lord,
right, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, loving, whatever.
The whole nine fruits of theSpirit, right, yeah, and when I
think about forgiveness in theperson in front of me, if I
(42:53):
don't have peace about thatperson in front of me, it could
be an indicator I haveunforgiveness in my heart.
Yeah, right, because trueforgiveness it's for you, it's
for your peace.
Yes, peace of mind and peace ofheart.
Because true forgiveness it'sfor you, it's for your peace,
peace of mind and peace of heart.
So anything about forgiving,not forgetting, not forgetting
(43:14):
actually still has seeds ofanger and bitterness.
It's truly not forgiveness.
And so peace is the fruit offorgiveness.
And so let's move on to justpractical steps for really just
assessing.
I mean, listen, every singleday you get up in the morning,
(43:35):
create in me a clean heart.
Every day we sin, and so thisis not.
You know, this episode doesn'texclude anyone.
Everyone's included.
But how can we truly live alife of examination of the heart
?
Right, it starts with trust,the teacher God.
Again, from Genesis toRevelation.
There's so many lessons abouthow we examine our heart, but
(43:57):
what I do is I put my heart in aposition of praise and worship,
and so I listen to music thatgets me focused on my creator
and who he is, and I'm nottalking about worship songs,
because that's too wide.
Some worship songs is all aboutwhat God does for us.
It's not about who God is andso he's holy forever.
(44:21):
Okay, he is the great I am, andit's those songs that start to
position us on who he is as thecreator.
And then I switch to songs thatnow show me your face.
There's a song Show Me yourFace.
I exalt thee.
Now put that face on my heart.
(44:43):
Show me what's in my heart,real time, that you want me to
let go of, and it's literallyjust journaling.
Again, it's good.
Every episode I will say journal, journal, journal, journal.
What are you hearing from theLord?
And chances are, if you'repraying for breakthrough in an
area, that is the very placethat God wants to transform next
, it's not just abouttransforming the other person on
(45:05):
the other end, it's what needsto be transformed in you to
apply God's word, to get to thatplace of reconciliation.
So examine, praise and worshipin the heart, prayerfully going
before the Lord, and thenpractice, practice, putting
God's word into action.
And so if God says quick toforgive, who aren't you
(45:28):
forgiving?
How do you start to practice?
And you don't need to have allthe answers.
God, you say to be quick toforgive.
I can't do this in my flesh,help me.
And all of a sudden, when wesay help me, the doors open and
supernatural stuff startshappening.
And where we had zero peacebefore, next thing you know, we
got the peace.
That surpasses allunderstanding.
(45:48):
Yeah, it's amazing, it reallyis.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah, similar to you, I ask the Holy Spirit every day
to step into every aspect of myday, which is a relatively new
thing Because you know I alwayshave my Bible time and
journaling time, you know, everysingle morning, like clockwork.
It's rare that I don't, maybeoccasionally on travel or
something for work.
But I've realized more and moreoften we put, you know, the
(46:15):
Holy Spirit, jesus, god, in acompartment, if you will, and
just ask Him into the big things.
But I realize he wants to be in.
You know every single detail,the mundane, so help me be a
better witness of the goodnessof Jesus.
You know, no matter what I facetoday, help me, lord, look for
the opportunities in each one ofthese things, even if it's
(46:38):
something hard, and show me howit can bring me closer to you.
You know, help me to grow andrise higher.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, you mentioned to me, too, examining fruit.
We talked a little bit aboutthat, but tell us more about
what does it look like toexamine the fruit?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Well, does it produce something good?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
You're on the money.
You're on the target set.
Does it bring?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
me closer to the Lord .
All of the fruit would beanything that makes you a better
witness of the goodness ofJesus.
Is it bringing me wisdom?
Is it bringing me faith,obedience, is it helping me go
deeper in my walk with Him andto trust Him more?
But if it's moving me away fromhim, it would be all negative
(47:27):
things, like you know shame,secrecy, pulling myself out of
community, making excuses usingwords like deserve.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yes, yeah, and so it's really being honest with
ourselves, examining all thedifferent spaces in our life.
Yeah, right, examining all thedifferent spaces in our life,
right, and so family first, god,family, friends, coworkers,
community what's producing goodfruit and what's not producing
good fruit, and really examinewhat's going on where the bad
(48:00):
fruit is.
And if you look at Galatians 5,starting at verse 19,.
Look at Galatians 5, startingat verse 19,.
It actually goes through thefruits of the flesh, which is
not really fun.
But if we really look at thatlist and say, where do these
things show up in my life, thatstarts to go over the target
zone of where God wants to workright.
(48:21):
And then also inspect the fruitof the Spirit, which starts at
verse 22.
Like, where do these fruitsshow up in my life and is it
consistent?
Is it always bearing fruit, ormaybe it goes dry sometimes?
Why is it going dry?
So really using the measure ofthe fruit is a way to examine
(48:42):
the quality of our life thatwe're living with the Lord, yeah
, yeah, and I just want toremind everybody to, while it is
hard, attempt to lean into thehardships.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
You know, cs Lewis many famous quotes right said
that hardships help to produceextraordinary things in ordinary
people.
And then I also was recentlywatching a podcast, um, with
George Janko and Steve Harvey.
Um, two people I actuallyreally enjoy, um, but Steve
(49:13):
Harvey said, which I love, thishe said um, you know you?
You more often than not don't.
With regard to success, youdon't get and I'm paraphrasing,
but few of us get an elevatorstraight to the top, like a
speed train to the top, and ifyou happen to catch one,
understand this you're not goingto stay there.
(49:36):
So, in order to accomplishextraordinary things, stand
apart and be wildly successful,you have to take the stairs, and
the stairs, every step preparesyou for the promise.
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
I love that, isn't it ?
I know it's incredibly visualtoo.
Yeah, man, I hate the stairs.
I get winded after like 11 ofthose bad boys.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Take the stairs.
Lean into the stairs.
Angelique, Take the stairs.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Okay, well, I want to close with King David's prayer
in Psalms 139, 23 through 24.
Search me, O God, and know myheart, test me and know my
anxious thoughts.
See if there is any offensiveway in me and lead me in the way
of everlasting.
I mean, that just summarizes itall, because we all have
(50:23):
something we need to let go andlet God.
And then I want to just, ofcourse, provide a resource.
This is called Victory OverDarkness by Neil Anderson, and
it's again just peeling backareas of darkness and having
victory over it and so just aguide to help us go deep.
But with that I'm going toclose this in prayer, please.
Okay, heavenly Father, we thankyou that you are faithful to
(50:45):
show us exactly where you wantto help just transform us in our
areas of life.
We thank you that you give usthe strength to do what you
would have us do according toyour will.
Thank you for just doingimmeasurably more than we can
ask, think or imagine in thisarea of our life.
Testing.
That proves trustworthiness,lord.
(51:07):
We all just have so much desirein our hearts to know you and
to be more like you, so increaseour willingness and our ability
to do so.
We trust you, lord.
In the name of Jesus, we pray,amen, amen.
So here we are.
We've been traveling all overAmerica, or at least the East
Coast anyway.
That's right, where have youbeen?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I went to DC on a couple-day trip with my mom.
It was super fun.
You know I was born and raisedthere and so we went back and
played Taurus because there'sbeen a bunch of new museums and
stuff that have opened up theHolocaust Museum and Museum of
the Bible, which were reallyincredible.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The Holocaust Museum wow, that's amazing.
And you got to go away withyour mom.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I know we had beautiful weather, we rode bikes
, it was fantastic.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I love it.
Was it pure joy?
Was everything blissful?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It was.
I will say we had a moment ofare we going to go?
Because literally I don't watchthe news anymore, but the day
before we took the trip, allthis stuff, have you seen what's
happening in DC, when PresidentTrump announced that I might be
releasing military policetaking over the city?
So we had a moment where wethought, uh, should we change
(01:07):
our trip?
We hadn't heard anything aboutthis, but I've got to tell you
we didn't see any evidence ofthat.
Now, we weren't out frolicking,you know, to the wee hours of
the night by any means, but itwas peaceful in the city.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
That's good because they're saying it's one of the
top uh murder cap per capita inthe world.
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
That's good because they're saying it's one of the
top murder per capita in theworld.
Really it's crazy, wow, and sothat's why.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Over Chicago.
That's what's scary about it,yeah, and to think that it's in
our capital is just mind-blowing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So hopefully they get it cleaned up, because it's
such a beautiful place andpeople living there obviously
need and deserve the peace.
Yeah, so I do know that there'sa couple little things that
spurred up while you were in DC,but I'm not going to ask you
directly what it is in themoment because I think it's a
great tie-in to what we're goingto talk about.
(01:55):
Testing mini-tests what?
we're going to talk about today,which is testing, and
oftentimes, when we arepreparing to share what God has
laid on our hearts, he actuallyhas us walk it out real time,
right, yeah, and so it's notsome far-in-the-past experience,
it's actually.
We're living it out day by day,and I found myself in New York
(02:16):
City this past week, getting togo up there for a work
conference and it was wonderfulwith all the things that New
York has to offer.
And I can say the introvert inme oh, I was tested and I'll
share a little bit more about mytestings, but one of the huge
blessings that came out, and itwas because of the influx of the
(02:52):
people from Ireland.
The Irish they came in and theywanted a church and so it was
obviously fashioned after StPatrick.
And what a beautiful cathedral.
I wasn't raised in the CatholicChurch.
I kissed the edges of itbecause my mom was raised
Catholic.
But as I've grown in myrelationship with Christ, I have
(03:17):
a deep respect for just theorigins of our faith.
How did we become an actuallyorganized church?
We know that God actuallyfashioned creation, so faith is
actually through creation.
But how did mankind organizeand create religion?
And obviously there's a lot ofroots back to the Catholic
Church.
So just to be in that place andjust spend some time in prayer
(03:41):
and I did the deeds of lightingcandles for those that I love
and just praying for it was justsacred, sacred time, Awesome.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
What about the introverted test part?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, we'll get more into that how God was saving
that.
Yeah, you really want to talkabout testing in an upcoming
Double Dose podcast.
Well, I'm going to show youwhat it means to be tested real
time.
But the other blessing I willjust share real quick is that my
husband joined me in New York,so he's a.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
New Yorker through and through.
I've heard of him.
I didn't realize that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
So he didn't get to join me till later on in the
week but still nonetheless wegot some really good food in,
got some quality time and alwaysseeing the city through his
eyes.
Because he was born and raisedin New York, it's always fun to
do that city with him.
Yeah, but yeah.
So let's dig into what we'reactually going to talk about
today.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah.
So testing it's confusing,right.
Most of us don't typically signup for it voluntarily.
It can be frustrating,downright unfair, but we're
hoping that everybody openstheir heart today.
Right, because I would say,imagine that if we could walk
through everything the testingand then temptations with
(04:49):
complete faith and peace, youknow it's transforming.
Right, because when weunderstand what God is doing in
and through these things, weface all of those hardships
completely differently.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah, it's often said .
I don't know if you've heardthis, but I've often heard
people say that God doesn't testus, that Satan is the one who
does the testing, and that'sactually unbiblical.
So there's two things that areactually rivaling each other,
side by side.
Testing is from the Lord and itreally shows what's in our
(05:25):
heart.
Right, that's what God shows us.
And then temptation is what theenemy does to lure us and
entice us away from the thingsof the Lord.
And the thing that's just tokind of put a highlighter on
this point God knows thecondition of the human heart.
God created us from a place oflove, and so in God's love, he
(05:50):
tests us to draw forward what hewants to transform.
Where Satan, he doesn't havecompassion for the human heart,
he doesn't have compassion forus and he comes to kill, steal
and destroy.
So anything he does toward usis to devour us, and so it's
really important to kind ofpulse check where we're at in
the day.
Is this for us or is thisagainst us?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, that's so good.
Something you just said I thinkis important to highlight, and
that is that God already knowswhat's in our hearts.
But when he tests us, it's notbecause he doesn't know, but
it's to show us what's inside.
And I think more often than notwe think we know, but until we
(06:33):
are actually tested, that's whenwe find out.
Oftentimes one of our headpastors, pastor Penny, says when
you get squeezed, it's in thatmoment what comes out is what's
inside you.
So God used tests to show usthat the things that we still
have to work on, Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So let's get into the definition of what these things
are.
So testing, it's from the Lord.
It's a purposeful proving thatmatures our obedience, character
and trust in the Lord.
It's a refining.
It's not random, it's actuallyvery intentional.
And if we look at James 1,verses 2 and 3, we actually see
(07:14):
it says consider it pure joy, mybrothers, when you encounter
trials of many kinds.
Verse 3 actually goes on to saybecause you know that the
testing of your faith developsperseverance.
And this is the interestingthing about that word testing
it's actually from the Greekword dokimion.
Try to say that three times,fast, ok.
(07:36):
But what does that Greek wordactually mean?
It means it's a proving oftrustworthiness.
That's good, ok.
It's a proving oftrustworthiness, that's good,
okay.
And so how much can God?
When God comes in and tests us,he's asking how much can I
trust you in my relationshipwith you?
It's like, how much do we trustthe Lord?
(07:57):
He's actually asking us too howmuch can I trust you, because I
have plans and purposes for you, and are you ready to have your
territory widened?
And so that proving trustworthyactually opens the door for his
purposes, and his purposes isto save as many souls as
possible, yeah, okay.
(08:17):
So that's super, superimportant.
Then if we kind of flip the coinand we look at temptation which
is not from God, it's anenticement to sin.
It often exploits a desire ofpride or fear in our heart.
It ends in separation, shameand even death.
In James 1.13, it says whentempted, no one should say God
(08:42):
is tempting me, for God cannotbe tempted by evil, nor does he
tempt anyone.
So you can't get more clearerthan that.
The Lord does not tempt,because the Lord does not
participate in evil, becauseevil draws us away from the Lord
.
And if we look at that wordtempt, here's another one.
It's perazo.
Okay, in the Greek it'sactually a personification of
(09:07):
the word test.
So it's where the test becomespersonified into the tempter.
And so here we have that weactually have a real being that
is actually putting thetemptation on human flesh as the
(09:27):
personification of it.
Wow, it's just really wild whenyou sit in that.
But this is the tricky thing.
God can initiate a test To seehow trustworthy we are, yeah,
and then the enemy can comeright in the middle of that test
and tempt us.
What's an example?
(09:47):
Okay, so take Jesus in thewilderness.
The Spirit led Jesus into thewilderness and Satan came as the
tempter to say did God reallysay to live on bread alone?
Sure, you don't want some ofthis food, okay.
And so the reality is and thisis where we really need to be in
(10:09):
this partnership with the Lordto say what am I being tested on
and what is the temptationthat's probably pulling me in
the test?
Does that make sense?
It does, yeah, and same thingSatan can tempt us, and then the
test is there.
So these two things are tightlycoupled, they are intertwined
(10:33):
and it's up to us and ourrelationship to pull them apart.
And I just want to give acouple more examples to really
drive it home.
As you said, so we got, godtested Abraham.
Okay, god tested Abraham andsaid are you really going to
trust me to give you a boy,isaac?
Right, and did he trust him?
No, he was tempted to do ithimself, and we know the
(10:56):
consequences of that.
Ishmael.
And we've had a train wreck on areligious war for thousands and
thousands of years.
God tested Israel, the entirenation of Israel, in Deuteronomy
8.
We find God is testing.
Are you really ready to receivethe promises that I have for
(11:17):
you in the promised land.
Do you love me with all yourheart, mind and soul?
Are you ready to receive thepromises that I've promised you?
And they kept proving no, theyweren't ready and they wandered
for 40 years because the testingkept producing the wrong fruit.
They weren't ready to receivethe blessing of the Lord.
We see Jesus in the wilderness,the story of Job, of course,
(11:40):
where we have Satan gotpermission to torment and to
tempt Job to actually curse God.
And Job proved faithful,trustworthy, and God gave him
double portion of everythingthat the enemy stole from him.
And so, time and time again,literally from Genesis through
(12:02):
Revelation, we can see these twothings at war with each other
the testing for thetrustworthiness of God's call
and then the temptation to pullus away from God, and those two
things coexist together.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I found some powerful sort of fast check tips
that can help us figure outwhat's the testing and what's
the temptation.
Where we can start by askingout what's the testing and
what's the temptation, where wecan start by asking what's the
source and what's the goal.
So if it's testing, does thisgive us an opportunity in our
response to become more likeJesus?
(12:35):
But if it's temptation, thenthe opportunity or the response
moves us away from Jesus.
That's an easy way to figurethat out.
Examining the method helps alot.
So testing, to your point inyour stories invites us to trust
and be more obedient, be morefaithful, to keep our eyes
(12:55):
fixated on the Lord.
And temptation offers us ashortcut like, yeah, I am hungry
, it's no, big deal I can take alittle taste right and moves us
away from God's word, and thenyou can look at the fruit right.
So testing will produceendurance and wisdom and freedom
and faithfulness.
(13:16):
But temptation will move ustypically into things like shame
and secrecy and confusion,disobedience yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I love that.
You know, sometimes too, itstarts off with something very
practical.
Okay, we get up at the crack ofdawn for us early birds, we
start to pray Father, our Father, who art in heaven, give us our
daily bread right.
And we go through the Lord'sPrayer and we're like, we want
to be more like you today, giveus the opportunities, et cetera.
(13:50):
And by 6 o'clock in the morning, if we have a dog, we're
stepping in a pile of poop inthe living room and we're like
OK, this is great, clean it upfor a source of frustration.
Then, if you got some kids Iknow I raised six kids the kids
are off schedule, they're notcooperating, they won't let you
do their hair, they're going tomiss the school bus and all of a
sudden you're going to be latefor work.
Then you get to work and who'sthe first person you ran into?
(14:12):
The person you don't like, theperson you don't want to see.
You didn't have any meetingswith that person today, so why
would that person be in yourpath to begin with?
They need to leave.
And I find myself I can speakLike have you ever heard the
little thing by Senator JohnKennedy?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yes, I was, I'm laughing because I'm going to
bring this up.
You realize that it's a problem, because when I laugh at it too
hard, you're like OK, that's aknowing laugh.
Do you want to tell it?
Go, go.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
I just love it.
I laugh so hard every time Isee it.
I do too, and the baby versionof it, yes.
So if you're wondering what theheck we're talking about,
there's a little clip you can golook at at out on YouTube or
wherever you get your littlevideo shorts.
And it's uh, senator JohnKennedy.
And he says you know, I pray, Ipray, I want to be more like
Jesus I'm paraphrasing because Ican't do it as well as he does
(15:05):
but I want to follow Jesus, Ipray, I want to follow Jesus all
day long and I want to be thatgood Christian.
But you know what?
10 o'clock comes around and Istill want to follow Jesus, but
I want to slap the hell out ofsome people too.
I'm like I see myself in thatso much, 100%, but literally
just pausing on that humor,because there is some truth on
(15:26):
the other side of it.
That seems so innocent, right,and we're so desensitized to
that irritation, thatfrustration of the human sitting
in front of us, that we don'trealize that that could be a
repeat test, like a recordplayer that just keeps skipping
over and over and over again.
That God is saying are yougoing to handle this situation
differently today.
So true, or are you going toactually be more like me and are
(15:50):
you going to prove trustworthyin this situation?
Yeah, because chances are wemay be the only Jesus that they
get to see in that moment, inthat day.
Sure, and if their impressionof Jesus is how we show up and
we want to slap the hell out ofpeople, well, they probably
don't want any of the Jesusthat's in us, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
and it's completely human to have that feeling but
at least to start to have theawareness of it.
Exactly Such a huge piece ofthis is our free will right.
Two people can walk through thesame tests and it's your choice
in how you respond to thattesting and whether you're going
to grow or, you know, move awayfrom God.
(16:29):
So I mean, we're tested throughall kinds of things hardship,
suffering, loss, gosh, we'reeven tested, don't you think,
sometimes with like prosperityand success, because for some
people it can be hard.
In those times we forget ourreliance on the Lord or lose
sight of our humility and ourgratitude.
(16:51):
In those scenarios,relationships are a big one
conflict, betrayal, I meanrelationships tend to be some of
our hardest tests right, yes.
Okay, let's make this a littlebit more real with some examples
, some personal examples too,but let me start by anchoring us
in a simple one that we can alllikely relate to.
(17:11):
So let's assume that maybe you,and many of us, experienced
this.
You were excited about a newjob or a promotion within your
existing organization, and soyou prepped, you were ready.
This role was made for you.
It was written for you andyou're so excited, you feel like
(17:32):
everything's been preparing youfor this next step, and you go
in there and you nail theinterview.
And then what happens?
It goes to somebody else, yeah,maybe even somebody that you
know.
You just know wasn't even asqualified as you.
And so you know, naturallywe're wildly disappointed, right
(17:53):
.
But we have a choice.
We can doubt ourselves, we candoubt God, we can allow that
scenario to go.
Why do I even show up?
Why do I even bother?
Or try.
Is he even listening?
How could this have happened?
Or we can decide that maybehe's refining our patience,
(18:14):
maybe he is preparing us forsomething bigger, something
better, something better.
Our choice is to stay faithfuldespite that something didn't go
our way, or to move intoresentment, water cooler gossip,
things of that nature.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
I actually had a real examplesimilar to what you just
described as a theoretical.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
It truly happened to you.
It truly happened to me.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
So I was so excited.
I got the interview for a CIOrole and this was my forte into
the C-suite and boy did I wantit with every piece of my being.
I mean, I had worked my tailoff for many years.
I deserved this role and thiswas the perfect company.
It was a service-basedorganization and they were going
(19:03):
to be building software and Iwas like I can build software,
I'm a software engineer by trade.
This is the perfect role.
It's kind of a hybrid ofbuilding technology but still,
you know, running an internal ITdepartment.
I crushed the interview, so I'msaying crushed it.
The founder or I should say itwas the CEO at the time, it was
(19:24):
the son-in-law of the founder wehit it off immediately.
He said to me he goes,angelique, say I don't give you
the title of CIO.
What if I gave you like a vicepresident role instead?
Would you be willing to take astep into the company to take
this role?
And I said no, because I'mready to be the CIO and I'm not
(19:44):
going to accept anything less bygolly.
And I was confident.
I like it Well that gentleman.
He was an adventurist, anadrenaline junkie, and he loved
my confidence and my demeanorand he's like you're on to the
next round, like this is amazing.
Well, he had an accident and soI got passed off to the number
(20:06):
two in the company and for somereason, there was this weird.
Just the chemistry wasn't thereand I could feel that he was
going to vote.
No, I could just feel it in mygut and I was like having this
inward turmoil going, oh my gosh, I'm not going to get it.
I'm not feel it in my gut and Iwas like having this inward
turmoil going, oh my gosh, I'mnot going to get it.
I'm not going to get it.
I want to go back to the otherguy and I want to talk to the
(20:29):
other guy.
Give me the guy that I liked.
And I ended up not getting therole.
And the executive recruiter wasdumbfounded.
He's like this role was madefor you.
I am shocked.
The feedback was overwhelminglypositive and I was just
devastated and I felt like thatguy was a jerk, the guy who
basically vetoed me out, and Ireally struggled with it For
(20:50):
multiple months.
I struggled with it.
Why God, why God?
And does it mean I'm not goingto get my opportunity?
And I ended up getting anotherrole in executive leadership and
it was a launchpad for many,many great things to come.
But what was crazy is, withinsix months of me taking the
other role at the otherorganization, the company went
(21:13):
out of business.
Oh wow, it was a sink shippingand I didn't even know it.
Yeah, and so you have no idea.
The no doesn't mean no forever,it's a not now and it's also a
hedge of protection when you'rewalking with the Lord.
And so many times I could tellyou countless times, my husband,
he's built quite a reputationin his field of commercial
(21:35):
baking.
Everybody knows who he is andthey all love him, and he has
many different opportunities.
He's constantly evaluating andso many times he has said no, no
, no.
And I'm like what are you doing?
Say yes, for God's sakes, andthen, literally within a few
quarters, lo and behold, thatcompany is in distress.
Oh, wow.
And he's like see, I knewsomething wasn't right.
(21:58):
So he's got this discerningspirit.
But just take the no as thankyou, lord, you're protecting me,
yeah, so, yeah, that's my-.
That's good, that's a goodstory, yeah, so what's?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
an example for you.
Well, so many times I thinkthat God has a really good sense
of humor when we pray forpatience and then he throws us
into opportunities to developour patience.
You know, or wisdom, or courage, or I mean insert fill in the
blank here but for me, I thinkof you know, what's very real
(22:31):
and alive, you know, sittinghere in this chair, is how, for
years, I would pray for publicspeaking confidence.
I would pray for publicspeaking confidence and you
would think, you know, in allthe years of business and
leadership and whatnot, that I'dalready have that or that you'd
have to have it in order to besuccessful.
But it's just, it's different,don't you think?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
It definitely comes with a different weight.
You feel a weight ofresponsibility to make sure
you're speaking truth andhonoring the Lord yeah, which is
different than doing a businesspresentation and showing if I
invest in ABC, you're going toget XYZ on the other end yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And I think one of the things that he keeps showing
me with that is well, no, I'mnot going to give you public
speaking confidence, but what Iwill give you is courage, public
speaking confidence, but what Iwill give you is courage and
I'm going to give you and throwyou into these opportunities to
develop the public speakingconfidence and I think it's.
You know Jesus knows, like youand I know, that there's a
(23:35):
spiritual and neuroscienceconnection.
So a lot like you know wedevelop our muscles by putting
them under stress.
I think you know Jesus, in someof his testing, is much you
know like that.
So you know I go back tofinding this church and I think
you know immediately I was givenlots of opportunities to begin
(23:59):
to develop this.
So you know getting thrown intothe authentic women's conference
.
You know standing on theplatform and speaking in front
of auditorium of hundreds ofwomen and and, frankly,
thousands more because it'stelevised and, by the way, you
crushed it Globally.
But I mean, every time I wouldstep on that platform I would be
(24:22):
wildly nervous.
Every part of it did not feelgood.
I was so uncomfortable and somany times I thought why are you
choosing to sign up for thisfeeling Like there's plenty of
other women out there who wouldgo pick me Like I love doing it,
(24:43):
throw me up there.
But again I just kept feelingthis nudge from the Lord that
said trust me, be faithful, stepout in courage Again.
I'm not going to give you justlike that, the public speaking
confidence, but I will give youcourage, and I mean the amazing
and then this right.
I mean the amazing and thenthis right.
I mean this podcast.
(25:03):
He drops that vision on both ofour hearts and even through
that, you know, I said to you,I'm like I know that I'm
supposed to be a part of this,but I'm not convinced.
I'm supposed to be in front ofthe camera and frankly, I don't
know that I'm 100% stillconvinced.
But you know, what has happenedagain is I keep showing up, and
(25:32):
I'll tell you what candidly.
This last episode is the firstepisode where, for the first
time, I picked up this cup andmy hand wasn't doing this when I
went to drink.
So I mean, the beautiful thingthat I'm learning and it really
is beautiful is that theconfidence doesn't come, you
know, based on the outcome.
It really is being developedfrom showing up, feeling the
(25:56):
fear and doing it anyway, havingthat courage, regardless of the
outcome.
It's coming in the effort, it'sthe obedience.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, god blesses the obedience, not the pathway of
obedience.
Yeah, I love that.
So I have a similar story tothat as well.
I don't know if you know this,but I find that very hard to
believe.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I thought you'd think you just popped out.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I'm so ready to go.
You're so funny.
I was called motor Mouth andTurbo Mouth as a child.
So I was a very energetic child.
I had so much enthusiasm.
I was incredibly positive.
I was just bubbly.
I was bubbly, bubbly, bubbly.
And I love to communicate andso.
(26:40):
I earned the name Turbo Mouthand Motor Mouth.
And for years though, Kids areso mean.
Oh yeah.
Well, it was actually adultswho spoke it over me, yeah, the
ones that were supposed to, Iwould say, encourage and nurture
the gifts and talents that Godput in me.
It became cursed, and so Iactually really shied away from
(27:03):
public speaking and I refused todo it Like I was.
At one point in time, I wantedto go into theater and then,
because I felt like my voice wastoo prominent, I pulled out.
I pulled away.
I wanted to go into newscastingor advertising.
I pulled out because I feltlike my voice was going to
overwhelm people, and so thathas been something that I've had
(27:24):
to heal from.
So this is the test, like Godwill say are you really healed?
Because do those thoughts ofthe enemy still come up and tell
you that your voice is toooverbearing or you're talking
too much, or whatever thenarrative is?
That narrative absolutely popsinto my head and I have to fight
(27:46):
through it and say, no, god'scalled me to speak, he named me
Angelique for His sake, and so Ihave to fight and push through
that.
So different lens, but it'slike the opposite end.
So you're coming from one lens,I'm coming from the other lens,
and God put us together, butthat's what he does.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
I know.
But what I hear in that wholestory is and we were talking
about this earlier that from themoment that you're conceived in
the womb there is a calling onyour life and everyone that
knows you is so grateful foryour communication and your
wisdom and the fact that youshare it.
(28:22):
And clearly one of the biggestcallings on your life is to
spread the gospel and the powerof a relationship with Jesus
Christ.
So if you, that was the enemyyour whole life, trying to
prevent you from stepping intothe very thing that you're doing
today, See, even you sayingthat makes my skin just come up.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
It's like, oh no, I'm still wrestling with it, even
in this moment, where one Idon't want the spotlight put on
me.
I want it put on Jesus and Idon't ever want to be talking
too much that it takes the gloryfrom Him, Do you?
know, what I mean.
Yeah, and that voice, and somany people have told me I love
(29:05):
listening to you.
I love that, yes, and it makesme coil.
It's like no, no, no.
You love what you're hearingand you love the Lord.
That's what I want you to say,and God's even teaching me that.
That's my own pride in my ownheart, that this notion of I
don't want to take His gloryit's me being prideful.
I can't take His glory.
(29:25):
He's God Like who am I?
Great point, fair enough.
Who am I?
And so I know this in my headbut, there's a difference when
His peace actually covers yourentire being, and I'm still a
work in progress in this area.
So, like you, I take steps offaith, knowing in my heart why I
do it, and you just got totrust Him with the rest, yeah,
(29:45):
yeah, yeah.
So what's one of Actually I'mgoing to Do, you mind if I just
back up and I want to shareanother story.
So that's more of how the enemywill tempt us and try to tear
us down, away from the purposesthat God has called us to.
Yeah, and then there's testingin that from the Lord, can I
(30:06):
trust you with the purposes thatI've placed on you even from
the conception in the womb?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I want to share something that I've struggled
with just in my flesh when itcomes to actually loving people.
Yeah, okay, okay.
And so when I first became aChristian, I've known the Lord
my whole life, but when I reallystarted to say I declare that
he's the Lord of my life and I'mgoing to start following Him I
had a lot of compassion forpeople around me because I could
(30:34):
see my own sin.
I could see the pit that I wasin and that God saved me from
that pit.
He saved me from bad choices,destructive choices and things
that weren't producing the fruitof the Lord.
So I had a lot of compassion, alot of empathy for people who
did stupid stuff and I wouldwant to save them.
Ok, as I've become more likeChrist over the years, I have
(31:00):
found that I've actuallydeveloped self-righteousness.
That I've actually developedself-righteousness and my
empathy and my compassion hascome with strings attached,
meaning that I've started to bea little calloused towards
stupid choices Like why are youdoing that stupid thing?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Da-da-da.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
And what God has done through me having six children
is any time thatself-righteousness, that pious
position, starts to rear up inme.
I find that one of my childrendo something stupid.
Yeah, okay, and it could beliterally like.
It could be literally as them,like when they were little, not
(31:45):
obeying me and, just you know,being jerks to each other in the
house.
And the day before we were atthe pool and there was another
family where two siblingsweren't getting along and the
parents didn't have control overthe two kids, and I would be
like they need to get their kidsunder control.
And the very next day I'd belooking at my own situation
(32:06):
going holy cow, my kids aren'tunder control, but I wouldn't
see it.
And then all of a sudden itwould be repeat, repeat, repeat.
And then all of a sudden, godused their misbehavior or their
lack of obedience to formcompassion in me, to then not be
so judgmental on the twoparents that didn't have their
kids under control.
(32:26):
Okay, fast forward that.
As kids age, you know,consequences get bigger and
bigger and bigger, and so ifthey do something stupid, the
impact radius is probably goingto be larger.
And I have seen my children,you know, not make some of the
best choices in the world, andthe consequences are going to be
different and my empathy and mycompassion and my love
(32:54):
increases for them, which thenalso increases my capacity to
love others openly in the world.
So I may not be coming from alens of judgment, and so the
real testing that God is puttingon me even right now, in this
real season, is where is my ownself-righteousness?
The test is this when is my ownself-righteousness, walking
(33:17):
with the Lord for a coupledecades, getting in the way of
having compassion and love forthe people that he's literally
putting right in front of me,whether that be the people in my
family, the people that I go towork with every day, the people
that I run into on the street?
I mean my heart in New Yorkbroke.
I went to bed, get choked upjust talking about it.
I went to bed crying Because ofwhat you saw right the
(33:40):
homelessness, the drug addictionon the street it's horrible,
horrible.
People just literally crackedout on the street.
It's horrible, yeah, horrible,like people just literally
cracked out on the side, like Iwas shocked, yeah, and I mean,
I've been to New York so manytimes, I lived there for a
decade and I hadn't seen, Ihadn't seen with my eyes, like
(34:01):
what God showed me, yeah, justbreaks my heart.
And so the testing in thisseason of my life is what is God
opening my eyes to?
Which is where am I praying forsomething to change?
But it's not changing.
And what's the lesson I'msupposed to learn?
What's the test?
(34:21):
What is he trying to get me tolet go of so he can increase my
trustworthiness for the weightof his calling that he's put on
me?
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So good, you know, yeah.
So yeah, I know that's a.
Tests were through my divorce.
So when we kicked off thedouble dose, we shared our
testimonies and they're outthere for folks who aren't
familiar.
But God definitely asked me alot of questions through that
and I would say that his testingand that were things like will
(35:15):
you trust?
me to lay this down what youthought that your life would
look like and lean intosomething completely, you know,
uncertain.
You know, will you let me usethis hardship and write a new
story that looks different,rather than clinging to your own
?
You know, I had to lay downwhat felt safe to me and, quite
frankly, up until that point,dysfunction did feel a little
(35:36):
safer than something healthy.
You know, will you let that go?
Will you step out of the waterand stop pushing the life
preserver to somebody else andfocus on yourself?
Let me write a new story.
So those are the things that Ithink of.
And boy am I so grateful that Isaid yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Took a while, but still I saidyes.
(35:58):
And boy has he done more than Icould possibly think, imagine
or pray for Isn't it crazy?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
It's like the speed in which we can get to let go.
Let God, and we can see thefruit of the.
Lord on the other side, andthat's kind of like the
heartbeat behind what we'resharing today is how fast can we
actually identify what God'strying to get us to let go of so
we can get to where he needs usto be, which is so much better
than where we are in the moment?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Let's move away from the testing and into temptation.
So we know again that testingcomes from the Lord to make us
more like Him, to increase ourtrustworthiness for what all he
has for us in relationship withHim and for His purposes for the
world.
And temptation moves us awayfrom those things and it kills,
steal and destroy.
So what would be a greatexample of what this starts to
(36:49):
look like in action?
The temptation.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah.
So let's say you've beenmarried a long time and you have
, you know, and maybe you'resomeone who's been feeling a
little underappreciated or, youknow, taken for granted.
That happens probably in everymarriage at some point.
If you've been married longenough, right.
But you show up at work andyou've got that co-worker who
(37:13):
always notices your new outfitor your new hairdo.
You know they're funny, theycompliment you, you feel noticed
, maybe, and affirmed in a waythat you haven't in a long time,
and that attention makes youfeel desirable.
And so you think, well, this isno big deal, I'm not doing
(37:36):
anything wrong, I'm not doinganything at all.
It feels harmless, and maybeyou even use that word deserve
Like feels harmless, and maybeyou even use that word deserve
like I deserve to laugh andflirt and you know, have fun at
work, kind of thing.
But you know, if you look at thelife cycle and all of that, you
know the enemy is the one who'swhispering.
(37:58):
You're not doing anything wrong, you know there's it's no big
deal, but God never tempts us.
So that would never be a testfrom God.
But he does provide an escape.
So where he is in.
It was probably the moment thatit crossed your mind that you
even started to justify I'm notdoing anything wrong, right, I
(38:23):
deserve that.
I mean, isn't that kind of hiswhisper?
And then I think what you'llfind is so that's the first
hello.
But then maybe a song comes on.
You know that God just placedat the right time, or a friend,
the kind of friend that wouldsay, the kind of friend that
(38:53):
would say you're walking adangerous path, happens to call,
or a verse pops in your mind.
Those are the moments where Godis there going, offering you a
path out.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
You said something incredibly profound and I just
want to put a highlighter on it.
You said that God doesn't causethe temptation, but he provides
a pathway out.
Yes, always he provides apathway out.
Resist the devil and he has toflee, and so that is such an
incredible truth that I justwant our listeners to rest in.
(39:21):
What is the pathway out?
You could even go back to thecalling and the purposes that
God has for your life Speak,speak, speak, lean into the
podcast, lean into these publicspeaking opportunities.
And how many times has the songI was made for more, god made
you for more?
All of a sudden, that song popson the radio.
That's a real live example.
That just happened to merecently.
(39:42):
That caused it, but I think whatI would like for folks to
realize is that temptationdoesn't have to always look big.
It doesn't have to be the biggotchas that we talked about in
episode six.
It can be the small, subtlelies that the enemy wants to get
in there, that you know whatthe scraps off of God's tables
(40:05):
are.
Good enough.
You don't need the seven-coursemeal that God has to offer you.
You're worthy of the scraps onthe floor.
No, god has called you setapart, you are a part of a royal
priesthood and you deserve theseven-course meal.
So buck up and start eating theseven courses and stop living
(40:25):
on the dog scraps right.
Another one that I think we allhave to be careful on, because
Jesus talked about it a lot andhe said that the cost of this is
death.
Okay, the cost of this one isdeath If we don't be quick to
forgive.
Wow, and there's so many.
(40:46):
I can speak for my own life.
I have been right in not havingto forgive because they hurt me
.
They did something soincredulous that they do not
deserve my forgiveness and I'mjust going to sit here and be
right now.
Or actually, let me say it thisway Rewind.
I forgive.
(41:06):
Forgive them, but I will notforget.
I will forgive them and I willnot forget.
That is very dangerous.
Okay, of course, we're notgoing to forget, we're going to
walk in wisdom and all that canbe true.
Yeah, but if the I will notforget is actually harboring
unforgiveness which 99 of the itis we're basically saying we
(41:26):
have a free pass not to extendforgiveness.
God knows what's in the heart.
Again, we're not here to judgethe human heart.
God does that, but he says thatyou will be forgiven to the
measure that you offerforgiveness.
And God died on the cross thatwe may have salvation.
And again, look at the log inyour own eye before you.
Look at the speck in yourbrother.
So there's a lot around.
(41:47):
Where is it easy to get caughtup in the snare of the enemy?
Unforgiveness is a big one.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
Yeah, that could be a whole episode unto itself.
Really that's a big one.
I mean it just keeps poison inyour heart.
Right and learning.
I had to learn the differencebetween forgiveness and
reconciliation, and learning Ihad to learn the difference
between forgiveness andreconciliation, where
forgiveness absolutely releasesyou but you don't have to
reconcile.
So, rather than call it, I willnot forget sometimes I will not
(42:18):
reconcile but, I'll fully,fully forgive.
Otherwise you're living in thepast right and, to your point,
it's keeping you from God's bestkind of next onward, upward
right.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah, well, we said it, I think, at the start, I
think you even said it that partof the outcome of passing a
test of the Lord is that itbrings the fruit of the Lord,
right, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, loving, whatever.
The whole nine fruits of theSpirit, right, yeah, and when I
think about forgiveness in theperson in front of me, if I
(42:53):
don't have peace about thatperson in front of me, it could
be an indicator I haveunforgiveness in my heart.
Yeah, right, because trueforgiveness it's for you, it's
for your peace.
Yes, peace of mind and peace ofheart.
Because true forgiveness it'sfor you, it's for your peace,
peace of mind and peace of heart.
So anything about forgiving,not forgetting, not forgetting
(43:14):
actually still has seeds ofanger and bitterness.
It's truly not forgiveness.
And so peace is the fruit offorgiveness.
And so let's move on to justpractical steps for really just
assessing.
I mean, listen, every singleday you get up in the morning,
(43:35):
create in me a clean heart.
Every day we sin, and so thisis not.
You know, this episode doesn'texclude anyone.
Everyone's included.
But how can we truly live alife of examination of the heart
?
Right, it starts with trust,the teacher God.
Again, from Genesis toRevelation.
There's so many lessons abouthow we examine our heart, but
(43:57):
what I do is I put my heart in aposition of praise and worship,
and so I listen to music thatgets me focused on my creator
and who he is, and I'm nottalking about worship songs,
because that's too wide.
Some worship songs is all aboutwhat God does for us.
It's not about who God is andso he's holy forever.
(44:21):
Okay, he is the great I am, andit's those songs that start to
position us on who he is as thecreator.
And then I switch to songs thatnow show me your face.
There's a song Show Me yourFace.
I exalt thee.
Now put that face on my heart.
(44:43):
Show me what's in my heart,real time, that you want me to
let go of, and it's literallyjust journaling.
Again, it's good.
Every episode I will say journal, journal, journal, journal.
What are you hearing from theLord?
And chances are, if you'repraying for breakthrough in an
area, that is the very placethat God wants to transform next
, it's not just abouttransforming the other person on
(45:05):
the other end, it's what needsto be transformed in you to
apply God's word, to get to thatplace of reconciliation.
So examine, praise and worshipin the heart, prayerfully going
before the Lord, and thenpractice, practice, putting
God's word into action.
And so if God says quick toforgive, who aren't you
(45:28):
forgiving?
How do you start to practice?
And you don't need to have allthe answers.
God, you say to be quick toforgive.
I can't do this in my flesh,help me.
And all of a sudden, when wesay help me, the doors open and
supernatural stuff startshappening.
And where we had zero peacebefore, next thing you know, we
got the peace.
That surpasses allunderstanding.
(45:48):
Yeah, it's amazing, it reallyis.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Yeah, similar to you, I ask the Holy Spirit every day
to step into every aspect of myday, which is a relatively new
thing Because you know I alwayshave my Bible time and
journaling time, you know, everysingle morning, like clockwork.
It's rare that I don't, maybeoccasionally on travel or
something for work.
But I've realized more and moreoften we put, you know, the
(46:15):
Holy Spirit, jesus, god, in acompartment, if you will, and
just ask Him into the big things.
But I realize he wants to be in.
You know every single detail,the mundane, so help me be a
better witness of the goodnessof Jesus.
You know, no matter what I facetoday, help me, lord, look for
the opportunities in each one ofthese things, even if it's
(46:38):
something hard, and show me howit can bring me closer to you.
You know, help me to grow andrise higher.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, you mentioned to me, too, examining fruit.
We talked a little bit aboutthat, but tell us more about
what does it look like toexamine the fruit?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Well, does it produce something good?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
You're on the money.
You're on the target set.
Does it bring?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
me closer to the Lord .
All of the fruit would beanything that makes you a better
witness of the goodness ofJesus.
Is it bringing me wisdom?
Is it bringing me faith,obedience, is it helping me go
deeper in my walk with Him andto trust Him more?
But if it's moving me away fromhim, it would be all negative
(47:27):
things, like you know shame,secrecy, pulling myself out of
community, making excuses usingwords like deserve.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yes, yeah, and so it's really being honest with
ourselves, examining all thedifferent spaces in our life.
Yeah, right, examining all thedifferent spaces in our life,
right, and so family first, god,family, friends, coworkers,
community what's producing goodfruit and what's not producing
good fruit, and really examinewhat's going on where the bad
(48:00):
fruit is.
And if you look at Galatians 5,starting at verse 19,.
Look at Galatians 5, startingat verse 19,.
It actually goes through thefruits of the flesh, which is
not really fun.
But if we really look at thatlist and say, where do these
things show up in my life, thatstarts to go over the target
zone of where God wants to workright.
(48:21):
And then also inspect the fruitof the Spirit, which starts at
verse 22.
Like, where do these fruitsshow up in my life and is it
consistent?
Is it always bearing fruit, ormaybe it goes dry sometimes?
Why is it going dry?
So really using the measure ofthe fruit is a way to examine
(48:42):
the quality of our life thatwe're living with the Lord, yeah
, yeah, and I just want toremind everybody to, while it is
hard, attempt to lean into thehardships.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
You know, cs Lewis many famous quotes right said
that hardships help to produceextraordinary things in ordinary
people.
And then I also was recentlywatching a podcast, um, with
George Janko and Steve Harvey.
Um, two people I actuallyreally enjoy, um, but Steve
(49:13):
Harvey said, which I love, thishe said um, you know you?
You more often than not don't.
With regard to success, youdon't get and I'm paraphrasing,
but few of us get an elevatorstraight to the top, like a
speed train to the top, and ifyou happen to catch one,
understand this you're not goingto stay there.
(49:36):
So, in order to accomplishextraordinary things, stand
apart and be wildly successful,you have to take the stairs, and
the stairs, every step preparesyou for the promise.
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
I love that, isn't it ?
I know it's incredibly visualtoo.
Yeah, man, I hate the stairs.
I get winded after like 11 ofthose bad boys.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Take the stairs.
Lean into the stairs.
Angelique, Take the stairs.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Okay, well, I want to close with King David's prayer
in Psalms 139, 23 through 24.
Search me, O God, and know myheart, test me and know my
anxious thoughts.
See if there is any offensiveway in me and lead me in the way
of everlasting.
I mean, that just summarizes itall, because we all have
(50:23):
something we need to let go andlet God.
And then I want to just, ofcourse, provide a resource.
This is called Victory OverDarkness by Neil Anderson, and
it's again just peeling backareas of darkness and having
victory over it and so just aguide to help us go deep.
But with that I'm going toclose this in prayer, please.
Okay, heavenly Father, we thankyou that you are faithful to
(50:45):
show us exactly where you wantto help just transform us in our
areas of life.
We thank you that you give usthe strength to do what you
would have us do according toyour will.
Thank you for just doingimmeasurably more than we can
ask, think or imagine in thisarea of our life.
Testing.
That proves trustworthiness,lord.
(51:07):
We all just have so much desirein our hearts to know you and
to be more like you, so increaseour willingness and our ability
to do so.
We trust you, lord.
In the name of Jesus, we pray,amen, amen.
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