July 31, 2025 • 29 mins
Episode Highlights:
Looking forward and up in Lincoln City as the city begins taking a look at the city charter for the first time since 1989, plus a feasibly study is underway for Dark Skies. Join Double R and his guests as we chart new ways on the Central Oregon Coast.
- David Robinson, City Attorney - Charter Review Committee
- Dawn Nilson, Fibonacci Enterprises
- Sifan Kahale, Kahale Observatory
- Double R Show - Visit us online -
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jana (00:07):
Welcome to the Double R Show, the podcast that features
everything about North LincolnCounty.
The Double R Show directed andproduced by Paul Robertson and
hosted by the voice of LincolnCity, Roger Robertson.
RR (00:30):
Welcome to the Double R Show, Double R, along with Son
Paul.
And today will be aninteresting program.
We're going to take a look atthe sky, the stars, and chart
them all together.
Son Paul (00:40):
Yeah, and the city, right?
And the city as well.
Yeah, so looking at thecharting, the skies.
We've got Stefan Kahaly fromthe Kahaly Observatory on.
We've got Dawn Nilsen fromFibonacci, I think was her
company name.
She's a dark skies expert.
And then David Robinson, so ourcity assistant.
attorney is going to be talkingabout the new charter review
(01:03):
committee that he's organizingover the next 12 to 14 months.
RR (01:07):
That coming up, that and more right after this.
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Zellers (01:25):
Homestyle cooking in a hometown atmosphere.
Hi, I'm Adina from Zeller'sRestaurant in Rose Lodge in
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Join us daily for good fun andgreat food.
You can even kick up your heelsat Zeller's.
RR (01:38):
David Robinson joins us, and David is the City Attorney for
the City of Lincoln City, andnow you're carrying a different
hat for a short period of time,as well as City Manager Pro Tem.
David Robinson (01:50):
Chief of Police David Broderick is the City
Manager Pro Tem.
I am the City Manager Pro Temwhen the Chief is unavailable.
Okay.
And we will continue thoseroles until the City Council can
interview and select either afull-time or replacement City
Manager Pro Tem.
RR (02:06):
Okay.
That's once side of the issue,the real reason we asked David
to come in and visit with us abit is city charter review.
We're going to be doing a majorreview.
Yes, sir.
David Robinson (02:19):
Why?
RR (02:19):
A
David Robinson (02:20):
city's charter is its constitution.
It is the organizationaldocument that lays out the
policy and the broad rules thatwill govern the city.
So The function of the citycharter review committee is to
review our existing city charterand determine if it will
(02:41):
adequately serve Lincoln Citycommunity in the future.
And if necessary, the committeewill recommend draft amendments
to the city charter.
The proposed charter amendmentswill ultimately be reviewed by
the city council for placementon a future ballot for the
voters in Lincoln City to eitherapprove or reject.
RR (02:58):
Is there a number of items already that you're looking at,
David, that need to be reviewed,brought forward?
into the 21st century?
David Robinson (03:08):
Well, stepping back from that, I have a chart
in front of me prepared by theLeague of Oregon Cities about
Charter review statewide.
So as a background, there are241 cities in the state of
Oregon.
And Lincoln City's charter waslast reviewed January 1, 1989.
So to put that in perspective,5% of Oregon cities have
(03:29):
reviewed their charter since2020.
27% of cities have reviewedtheir charter since 2010.
And then going back to whereLincoln City is, the remainder,
53% 95% or more haven't reviewedtheir charters since the 90s
or, in Lincoln City's case,1989.
That's a long time to lookback.
(03:51):
It's a long time to look back,but these are important
amendments.
Keeping in mind that this isthe Constitution of the city,
it's a large-scale policydocument.
And you asked me for an exampleof something that we would want
to change.
One of the things on my itemlist is that inside of our
charter now, there's a rule thatsays council rules have to be
amended by ordinance.
(04:12):
Now, an ordinance is alegislative amendment to the
municipal code where the councilrules exist alongside of
nuisance infractions, trafficinfractions, the land
development zoning code.
In many cities, city councilrules are a freestanding
document that the council canpass by a simpler method called
(04:33):
a resolution, and it's morefluid.
So as council members change,they can discuss whether they
want new rules, changing rules,and discuss it amongst
themselves and pass it.
I mean, these are the rulesthat govern the elected
officials body and they shouldbe easier to change than passing
a full on ordinance, uploadingit to our permanent law.
RR (04:56):
So who serves on this committee and how do you become
a part of the committee?
David Robinson (05:03):
We are recruiting and we're taking
applications on the city'swebsite.
It's under Boards andCommittees, and there is a box
that you can click on forCharter Review Committee.
We're looking for citizens fromWards 1, Wards 2, and Wards 3.
Right now we have applicantsfrom Wards 1 and 3, so we're
especially interested in Wards2.
If you do not know what wardyou live in, you can also find
(05:25):
that information out on thecity's website.
RR (05:28):
So what type of commitment can we expect for somebody
that's going to be on thiscommittee?
David Robinson (05:34):
I anticipate that charter review should take
anywhere from 12 to 14 months,and it will be on a set
schedule.
So I predict the schedule wouldbe every other Monday, Tuesday.
meetings per month, and I wouldset the time limit as strict 60
or 90 minutes, whatever ourcommittee members can do.
(05:56):
And if Mondays don't work, we'dtalk about Tuesdays.
The committee is rounded out bythree elected officials as well
from each ward.
So we have to work around theirschedules as well, and they
generally work in the eveningsbecause they have jobs.
So we are focused on eveninghours or late afternoon hours.
three, four o'clock, somethingthat everyone can agree to.
(06:18):
But it's going to be aregularly scheduled meeting over
the course of 12 to 14 months.
And the agenda we will set willbe to address one, two, or
three sections of the charter.
I'll start out with a briefpresentation of what these
sections do.
I will be the attorney liaisonto discuss what the charter
does.
We'll have a chair elected, aminute taker.
(06:39):
These will be public meetings,noticed and open to the public
for anyone to come and watch.
Will they be able toparticipate?
I do not anticipate takingpublic comment.
This is committee work.
So they can listen to the workof the committee.
And in that respect, when welook at our applicants, we are
really hoping to get higherlevel applicants, folks who may
(07:01):
have experience with law or landuse or...
even other charter reviewcommittees or who have served on
other committees.
I don't consider charter reviewto be an entry-level position.
However, we can work withwhoever's willing to learn and
tackle these because we do havesome Fairly interesting and
(07:24):
complex.
There's going to be somecomplex questions that are going
to be responded to.
Well, the transient lodging taxis in our charter review.
Okay.
So there will be, I anticipate,probably a full two- to
three-week breakout for thosesections that deal with
transient lodging, even if we'renot making any changes, just to
discuss...
how we got here, the longprocess of how we got here, why
it says what it does say.
And again, we'd put this offfor a couple of months
(07:47):
anticipating that the statelegislature would make some
changes in how transient lodgingtax dollars could be used.
And our charter reviewcommittee was going to be
responsive to that.
That did not happen in thispast legislative session.
So we're going to look at whatwe have in front of us and go
from there.
One of the other topics that wedealt with in Toledo.
(08:10):
So I'm a resident of Toledo andI was a citizen member of
Toledo's Charter ReviewCommittee a year and a half ago.
Toledo took up the topic ofwhether we should offer a
stipend to pay our electedofficials for their service.
The background to that is thatit has become increasingly
difficult in a busy society torecruit people to serve on
(08:31):
elected bodies.
And so the idea that we couldstipend someone not very much
money, a couple of hundreddollars a month, that's what
we'd ended up with in Toledo,just to say, your time is
valuable.
Because our elected officialswill very often, every meeting,
get a packet that's over 100pages and sometimes of quite
technical information that theyhave to read, absorb, think
(08:53):
about, and be prepared to have athree-hour business meeting, a
city council meeting, to discussthese topics.
RR (08:59):
We are running out of time.
We have one final question.
You talked about the citycouncil and the amount of work
that they have to do, but you'vegot an opening on the city
council.
David Robinson (09:10):
Correct.
We had a resignation from Ward1 last night.
Our applications.
for an appointment.
We aren't going to hold aspecial election.
Those tend to be costprohibitive.
It's Councilor Mitch Parson'sseat, and his seat expires in
December of 2026.
So we are seeking communityapplicants for the appointment
(09:32):
to that position in Ward 1 toserve out the remainder of his
term.
RR (09:35):
City Attorney David Robinson, thanks for being here.
We'll have you back againbecause this is an ongoing
topic, especially with thereview of the charter.
It's critically important.
David Robinson (09:46):
If you get questions, I will be happy to
come back to answer moretechnical questions about
charter review.
In the meantime, everything ison our website, including the
resolution and an exhibit whereI wrote up two pages worth of
what is charter review, how doesit work, and how is it going to
work for you.
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RR (11:15):
Dark skies is something that is new to Lincoln City.
It is...
Maybe new, but it is an old wayof looking at the heavens above
us.
And with us right now, DonNielsen.
And Don, you are into darkskies throughout the state of
Oregon.
Dawn Nilson (11:33):
Yeah, and actually I'm pretty heavily involved
throughout the western states.
RR (11:38):
And tell me dark skies is really, for a novice, what?
Dawn Nilson (11:43):
So a dark sky is really an aim to restore a
natural night sky and maybe not,you know, we're not talking
about going back to a lifestylewhere there's no outdoor
lighting at night, no artificiallighting at night, but to not
keep increasing the amount oflight that we're emitting up
into the sky.
to get a handle on it.
(12:04):
And so the whole dark skymovement was started over 35
years ago by a group ofastronomers who realized, hey,
this is something we're losing.
We're losing the night.
We're losing the night.
And this advocacy came reallyto protect stars for observing.
And then folks like myself,who've been long an amateur
astronomer, but folks likeecologists and nurses and
(12:29):
doctors got engaged in it,recognizing the harm to NASA's
And so it's just become a prettybroad movement now across the
globe.
RR (12:40):
Dark Skies is taking on a forefront activity here in
Lincoln City.
Are you, I assume, involvedwith Lincoln City as well,
correct?
Dawn Nilson (12:51):
Right.
And I'm helping them in doingwhat we're calling a feasibility
assessment.
And it's really the firststage.
So the city council decided tokind of look forward into this
notion of getting, you know,applying for certification from
the international organizationDark Sky.
international who does thesecertifications they're kind of
(13:14):
like getting a leadcertification or organic food
certification but they'recertifications that you've met
all these criteria and then youget international recognition
and it attracts a lot of tourismas well as protecting your
local heritage i've helped thethe oregon outback in the oregon
(13:34):
outback in lake county whichhas the world's largest
international dark sky sanctuaryIt's two and a half million
acres.
Really?
Jana (13:45):
It's
Dawn Nilson (13:46):
the largest by far, yeah.
And I've helped on PrinevilleReservoir State Parks
certification and the city ofAntelope there in Central Oregon
certification and helping CaveJunction.
So, yeah, this is going onthroughout the state, but
nothing on the coast.
RR (14:05):
And nothing on the coast yet, right?
Dawn Nilson (14:08):
Right, right, yes.
RR (14:10):
You're underway with that now, though, are you not?
Dawn Nilson (14:15):
Yes, the city was interested in the idea of it,
and we spoke through that TribalOregon Consultation Program,
and the city realized they dohave lots of advantages to move
forward something like this.
But we said, let's do afeasibility to just really see,
(14:35):
is this something that thecommunity wants?
It can't be something that ahandful of people want.
It has to be something that thecommunity wants.
And if the community is onboard and interested in this
type of certification, thenwe'll move forward into that
next phase.
RR (14:53):
So it is moving forward.
What kind of activities are youlooking at doing with Dark
Skies in Lincoln City?
Dawn Nilson (15:01):
So one of the things we're doing is trying to
get an idea, just even a cursoryidea, of what the outdoor
lighting situation is like nowin the city.
So that
Jana (15:11):
means
Dawn Nilson (15:11):
the city-owned lights and lights on all the
commercial buildings and withinresidential neighborhoods to see
what they are in comparisonwith what Dark Sky International
calls the five principles ofresponsible outdoor lighting.
So just to get that handledfirst, And then to create
community engagement.
So we've had three stakeholdermeetings already and a public
(15:35):
open house to talk about some ofthose things that we've
discovered.
RR (15:39):
What do you look at the main thing to do here in Lincoln
City as far as dark skies?
Is there the beach?
Is it the highways?
Or is it all of the above?
Dawn Nilson (15:52):
it's all of the above it's a few short words but
it's the biggest thing for acommunity be a dark sky
community the only criteria thatall the other dark sky places
need to have is to really bedark you have to be pretty you
know have very minimal lightpollution like artificial light
into the sky but to be a darksky community you don't need to
(16:14):
really be dark you just need tobe committed to responsible
lighting practices and toeducation and outreach and so
that's the first step is tostart to kick off that that
outreach and The biggest thing,though, for a community is to
adopt a lighting policy.
And for a community, that meansgetting something into an
(16:37):
ordinance, an outdoor lightingordinance that matches those
five responsible lightingprinciples.
RR (16:43):
And you anticipate something like that happening in a year,
two years, 10 years?
What are we looking at?
Is there a time frame?
Dawn Nilson (16:51):
it depends on the community you know we're looking
to wrap up this first phase youknow within the summer so that
you know there's a decision atthat point is this something
that looks viable you knowbecause if the community is not
interested in kind of lightingpolicy and cooperating with this
kind of policy within the nextfive or ten years where you
(17:12):
would have to you know modifysome lighting to be consistent
with that policy then This isnot going to happen, at least
for the near term.
RR (17:22):
So, Don, if I wanted more information or to become
involved in the Dark Skyprogram, who do I call?
Where do I call?
Is there a website?
Where do we get theinformation?
Dawn Nilson (17:36):
Explore Lincoln City has, you know, if you delve
into their site, you'll seethat they have some information
on Dark Sky tourism.
There already was an event thatwas held April 24th in the
city, a nighttime event withlive music and lit lanterns.
And so they have a site.
The person, the contact personwould be Kim Cooper Finley, who
(18:00):
is the director for ExploreLincoln City.
And yeah, I would say Kim'syour first point of contact.
Also Stephanie Hull at ExploreLincoln City.
And they're putting togetherthis whole outreach, community
outreach, community engagementprogram.
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Dark skies,
RR (18:53):
alive skies.
Stefan is with us to talk againabout the opportunity to dream
about the stars and enjoy thestars.
Absolutely.
August is a good month forstargazing?
Sifan Kahale (19:08):
Yes, it is.
There's a lot of differentthings that are up.
Let's talk about planets, aboutall the planets that are up.
Mercury and Venus, forinstance, are going to be there.
But they're very close to thesun, so it means you have to
watch for them just after dark,just after the sun sets.
And also in the very earlymorning, just before the sun
rises, you'll be able to pickthose up.
(19:29):
Other than that, Mars, Jupiter,Saturn are going to be up, and
those will be visible.
And
RR (19:35):
whereabouts in the sky should I be looking?
Sifan Kahale (19:37):
Mars, I think, is going to be pretty much south to
south.
Well, I'm going to have toguess here.
I think southeast.
Okay.
But I'm not sure.
You'll be able to tell becauseit's going to be ruby red.
To
RR (19:50):
the naked eye?
To the naked eye.
To the naked eye.
Sifan Kahale (19:53):
These are naked eyes.
Jupiter will be sort of whitishand very bright and
unmistakable.
Saturn is going to be smaller,but it'll be yellow.
And that's sort of unmistakableas well.
It's going to be brighter thanany of the other stars around.
And they're all going to befound on what we call the
ecliptic, which is the same linethat the sun follows across the
horizon.
So it's an arc from the eastover to the west.
(20:16):
And all the planets are goingto be on that line.
So that's where you'll be ableto find
RR (20:22):
them.
This is a reflection ofsunlight, correct?
Or is it?
Sifan Kahale (20:25):
This is the reflection.
Yeah, the sunlight isreflecting off of each of these
different planets, which is aninteresting thing.
You know how bright the moonis?
Would you believe that thesurface of the moon is about the
same as the blacktop out hereon your street?
RR (20:39):
Uh-huh.
Sifan Kahale (20:40):
There's that bright.
The sun is that bright thatit's reflecting and the moon is
shining that bright.
But it's actually pretty darkmaterial.
RR (20:48):
Do we need super dark skies to be able to enjoy this?
Sifan Kahale (20:52):
No, no.
I think you might want to getout of the city to see it a
little bit better.
And especially out of the city,you'll be able to pick up a lot
of the other stars and a lot ofthe other background that's
there.
That'll make it really pretty.
RR (21:04):
Are there other stars that are going to be out that we're
going to be able to see, or willthere be...
Whatever.
Sifan Kahale (21:13):
Well, I think the best thing, especially for
August, is most people on theirsmartphones have an application
for looking at the stars.
Take a look at that and Googleand find out.
One of the things that shouldbe out then is Messier 13, which
is the great Hercules cluster.
It's a cluster of a couplehundred thousand stars all in
(21:37):
this little ball.
And through binocularsespecially, It's almost going to
look like a diamond becauseit's going to be sparkly.
So it's very, very pretty.
RR (21:46):
You get excited about this, don't you?
Sifan Kahale (21:49):
I sure do.
It's something I love.
RR (21:53):
Obviously.
Okay, so I want to get intothis love of astronomy that you
ensued.
What do I need to do?
Sifan Kahale (22:04):
Oh, my.
I think the very first thing isjust get out into dark skies.
That is probably the best.
For around here, Ickwich StatePark is a good one.
It's a park.
I don't know if it's a statepark.
The other one is CapeFoulweather.
Go out to the point therebecause you have a couple of
things.
You've got very beautiful darkskies, but off to the distance
(22:26):
you have Newport, which is sortof bright.
It gives a light dome, but it'svery beautiful to look at.
Go out there when you have asetting moon and watch the moon
set over the ocean.
RR (22:35):
That's beautiful.
Very good.
Sifan Kahale (22:37):
Now, if you really want to get jaw-dropping
excited, head to the highdesert.
Clarenoa unit of the John DayFossil Beds, Malher Field
Station, any of those kind ofplaces.
Some of those are Bortle 1 toBortle 2, which is the darkest
guys.
Which means what?
The Bortle is a rating from 1to 9 of how dark the skies are.
(23:00):
1 are pristine, the best youcan get.
And 9 is like downtown NewYork.
Do we get
RR (23:07):
to enjoy that here on the Oregon coast?
Sifan Kahale (23:10):
Here on the Oregon coast, I think the best we do
is about a 3.
It's about a Bortle 3.
If you go to Ickwich Park,that's probably a low Bortle 3.
You know, Bortle 3, Bortle 2,something like that.
So that's going to be prettydark.
But if you go, like I say, JohnDay or Mulher, You can walk in
(23:30):
the fields without a light, justby starlight.
Very starlight, star bright.
It is absolutely amazing.
It's jaw-dropping amazing.
The Milky Way from around herelooks like just a narrow band
across the sky.
From over there, it's probablyabout 50 to 60 degrees wide.
It's just huge.
(23:51):
I've got a little story to tellabout that.
I set up my telescopes andeverything doing astrophysics of
photography out at the MalheurField Station.
And what I do is you set in aqueue into the computers for the
things to do for the next halfan hour for the images to take.
So as it's doing that, I liketo sit or lay down on the ground
(24:13):
next to the scope and justwatch the skies.
And I was watching the MilkyWay and inside the Milky Way
there are these dark bands.
There are different nebulas andthings, clouds that are hiding
stars behind it.
But there's these dark bandsthat go through the Milky Way.
And I noticed that there wasanother band that wasn't there
(24:34):
before.
I mean, I didn't recognize it.
And as time went on, you know,you're looking at other things,
you look back, and I noticedthat band moved.
It was an earth cloud.
Everything is so dark therethat your clouds don't reflect
any of the light that younormally see when you see
(24:55):
clouds.
The only way you can tell thereare clouds is by what's missing
behind them.
So suddenly there's starsmissing that are supposed to be
there.
It's a cloud.
The skies are alive.
It's jaw-dropping, absolutelywonderful.
RR (25:12):
Siobhan, thanks for being here again.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
It's good stuff.
The skies are alive.
Look north, look south, lookup.
Sifan Kahale (25:20):
Absolutely.
In my trailer on my messages, Ihave carpe nocturnum.
Bobs Beach Books (25:27):
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Something to read as you'rerelaxed by an open fire?
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Studying a particular topic?
We have that too.
Traveling to a far-off land?
Discover it first by reading.
Bob's Speech Books in the OceanLake area of Lincoln City?
Come discover.
RR (25:43):
So we've set a new charter for a number of different
activities and events takingplace in and around the Lincoln
City area, including the city ofLincoln City.
And that, again, I'd like toenforce the idea that they are
looking for additional people toserve on that committee.
Son Paul (26:00):
Yeah, and so since 1989, we haven't had a review of
our charter, and so this willbe led again with David Robinson
at guiding that as the cityattorney.
And they need some bodies inthere to not just be a warm
body, but to really dig intothat charter and help us renew
it for the next 25
RR (26:21):
years.
And speaking of the city, onWednesday, August 6th at 5.30 is
the library board meeting.
August 11th, we've got citycouncil.
August 13th, the public artscommittee.
Parks and Recreation Boardmeets on August 20th.
and the City Council again onAugust 25th.
Other activities coming up todraw attention to, we get the
(26:43):
Senior Fair.
It takes place October 7th atChinook Woods Casino Resort on
Tuesday, October 7th.
And then we're going to bestuffing the bus again, Paul.
September 5, we'll have anopportunity to get Sharon on
board with us and talk moreabout that.
Donations can be made at theLincoln City Outlets.
We are accepting bags ofback-to-school supplies already,
(27:08):
but the big Stuff-a-Busactivity will take place
September 5.
Celebration of Honor, one of myall-time favorite events in
Lincoln City, September 10, 11,and 12.
And Surf City, which is a majorfundraiser for Angels Anonymous
put on by Chinook Winds.
That's August 23rd and 24th.
And from your side of thetable, we have...
Son Paul (27:30):
Yeah, so Josh Havlin's going to be down there at the
15th Street Tide Pools againhere on August 9th, so coming up
here on a Saturday.
And then Duncan Berry's goingto take the helm of our
Explorants here on the next one.
Christina, who we had on just aweek ago, Tiwatini, she's going
(27:51):
to be taking a hiatus for a dayAnd Duncan's going to be taking
that home on August 14th.
That's a Thursday at NightPark.
So 10.30 start.
Join him for that event,Explorance of the Biosphere.
RR (28:04):
And last but not least, we'd like to remind everybody of the
Veterans Free Homemade Soup andSandwich Luncheon, sponsored by
the Lincoln City Elks Lodge at1350 Southeast Orr Avenue, twice
a month, the second and fourthWednesdays, noon to two.
It is free.
It is a soup and sandwichluncheon.
Anything else you said?
at the table?
I think we're clear from here.
(28:24):
That'll do it to the doings.
And for Paul and Jenna, I'mDouble R, reminding you to
always like, share, so peoplearound the world and across the
street will have an opportunityto enjoy the Double R Show as
well, which I did in Europe.
I like to hear that.
That's good to hear.
I love it, and it was fun.
(28:46):
We'll be back again next weekwith another new program on the
Double R Show.
Have a happy day.
Jana (28:53):
You've been listening to The Double R Show.
Join Roger and Paul Robertsonas they explore everything about
North Lincoln County.
The Double R Show produced byAlways Productions and hosted by
Roger Robertson.
Have a story?
Email contact atalwaysproductions.com or call
458-201-3039.
For The Double R Show, I'm JanaGrahn.
Welcome to the Double R Show, the podcast that features
everything about North LincolnCounty.
The Double R Show directed andproduced by Paul Robertson and
hosted by the voice of LincolnCity, Roger Robertson.
RR (00:30):
Welcome to the Double R Show, Double R, along with Son
Paul.
And today will be aninteresting program.
We're going to take a look atthe sky, the stars, and chart
them all together.
Son Paul (00:40):
Yeah, and the city, right?
And the city as well.
Yeah, so looking at thecharting, the skies.
We've got Stefan Kahaly fromthe Kahaly Observatory on.
We've got Dawn Nilsen fromFibonacci, I think was her
company name.
She's a dark skies expert.
And then David Robinson, so ourcity assistant.
attorney is going to be talkingabout the new charter review
(01:03):
committee that he's organizingover the next 12 to 14 months.
RR (01:07):
That coming up, that and more right after this.
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You can even kick up your heelsat Zeller's.
RR (01:38):
David Robinson joins us, and David is the City Attorney for
the City of Lincoln City, andnow you're carrying a different
hat for a short period of time,as well as City Manager Pro Tem.
David Robinson (01:50):
Chief of Police David Broderick is the City
Manager Pro Tem.
I am the City Manager Pro Temwhen the Chief is unavailable.
Okay.
And we will continue thoseroles until the City Council can
interview and select either afull-time or replacement City
Manager Pro Tem.
RR (02:06):
Okay.
That's once side of the issue,the real reason we asked David
to come in and visit with us abit is city charter review.
We're going to be doing a majorreview.
Yes, sir.
David Robinson (02:19):
Why?
RR (02:19):
A
David Robinson (02:20):
city's charter is its constitution.
It is the organizationaldocument that lays out the
policy and the broad rules thatwill govern the city.
So The function of the citycharter review committee is to
review our existing city charterand determine if it will
(02:41):
adequately serve Lincoln Citycommunity in the future.
And if necessary, the committeewill recommend draft amendments
to the city charter.
The proposed charter amendmentswill ultimately be reviewed by
the city council for placementon a future ballot for the
voters in Lincoln City to eitherapprove or reject.
RR (02:58):
Is there a number of items already that you're looking at,
David, that need to be reviewed,brought forward?
into the 21st century?
David Robinson (03:08):
Well, stepping back from that, I have a chart
in front of me prepared by theLeague of Oregon Cities about
Charter review statewide.
So as a background, there are241 cities in the state of
Oregon.
And Lincoln City's charter waslast reviewed January 1, 1989.
So to put that in perspective,5% of Oregon cities have
(03:29):
reviewed their charter since2020.
27% of cities have reviewedtheir charter since 2010.
And then going back to whereLincoln City is, the remainder,
53% 95% or more haven't reviewedtheir charters since the 90s
or, in Lincoln City's case,1989.
That's a long time to lookback.
(03:51):
It's a long time to look back,but these are important
amendments.
Keeping in mind that this isthe Constitution of the city,
it's a large-scale policydocument.
And you asked me for an exampleof something that we would want
to change.
One of the things on my itemlist is that inside of our
charter now, there's a rule thatsays council rules have to be
amended by ordinance.
(04:12):
Now, an ordinance is alegislative amendment to the
municipal code where the councilrules exist alongside of
nuisance infractions, trafficinfractions, the land
development zoning code.
In many cities, city councilrules are a freestanding
document that the council canpass by a simpler method called
(04:33):
a resolution, and it's morefluid.
So as council members change,they can discuss whether they
want new rules, changing rules,and discuss it amongst
themselves and pass it.
I mean, these are the rulesthat govern the elected
officials body and they shouldbe easier to change than passing
a full on ordinance, uploadingit to our permanent law.
RR (04:56):
So who serves on this committee and how do you become
a part of the committee?
David Robinson (05:03):
We are recruiting and we're taking
applications on the city'swebsite.
It's under Boards andCommittees, and there is a box
that you can click on forCharter Review Committee.
We're looking for citizens fromWards 1, Wards 2, and Wards 3.
Right now we have applicantsfrom Wards 1 and 3, so we're
especially interested in Wards2.
If you do not know what wardyou live in, you can also find
(05:25):
that information out on thecity's website.
RR (05:28):
So what type of commitment can we expect for somebody
that's going to be on thiscommittee?
David Robinson (05:34):
I anticipate that charter review should take
anywhere from 12 to 14 months,and it will be on a set
schedule.
So I predict the schedule wouldbe every other Monday, Tuesday.
meetings per month, and I wouldset the time limit as strict 60
or 90 minutes, whatever ourcommittee members can do.
(05:56):
And if Mondays don't work, we'dtalk about Tuesdays.
The committee is rounded out bythree elected officials as well
from each ward.
So we have to work around theirschedules as well, and they
generally work in the eveningsbecause they have jobs.
So we are focused on eveninghours or late afternoon hours.
three, four o'clock, somethingthat everyone can agree to.
(06:18):
But it's going to be aregularly scheduled meeting over
the course of 12 to 14 months.
And the agenda we will set willbe to address one, two, or
three sections of the charter.
I'll start out with a briefpresentation of what these
sections do.
I will be the attorney liaisonto discuss what the charter
does.
We'll have a chair elected, aminute taker.
(06:39):
These will be public meetings,noticed and open to the public
for anyone to come and watch.
Will they be able toparticipate?
I do not anticipate takingpublic comment.
This is committee work.
So they can listen to the workof the committee.
And in that respect, when welook at our applicants, we are
really hoping to get higherlevel applicants, folks who may
(07:01):
have experience with law or landuse or...
even other charter reviewcommittees or who have served on
other committees.
I don't consider charter reviewto be an entry-level position.
However, we can work withwhoever's willing to learn and
tackle these because we do havesome Fairly interesting and
(07:24):
complex.
There's going to be somecomplex questions that are going
to be responded to.
Well, the transient lodging taxis in our charter review.
Okay.
So there will be, I anticipate,probably a full two- to
three-week breakout for thosesections that deal with
transient lodging, even if we'renot making any changes, just to
discuss...
how we got here, the longprocess of how we got here, why
it says what it does say.
And again, we'd put this offfor a couple of months
(07:47):
anticipating that the statelegislature would make some
changes in how transient lodgingtax dollars could be used.
And our charter reviewcommittee was going to be
responsive to that.
That did not happen in thispast legislative session.
So we're going to look at whatwe have in front of us and go
from there.
One of the other topics that wedealt with in Toledo.
(08:10):
So I'm a resident of Toledo andI was a citizen member of
Toledo's Charter ReviewCommittee a year and a half ago.
Toledo took up the topic ofwhether we should offer a
stipend to pay our electedofficials for their service.
The background to that is thatit has become increasingly
difficult in a busy society torecruit people to serve on
(08:31):
elected bodies.
And so the idea that we couldstipend someone not very much
money, a couple of hundreddollars a month, that's what
we'd ended up with in Toledo,just to say, your time is
valuable.
Because our elected officialswill very often, every meeting,
get a packet that's over 100pages and sometimes of quite
technical information that theyhave to read, absorb, think
(08:53):
about, and be prepared to have athree-hour business meeting, a
city council meeting, to discussthese topics.
RR (08:59):
We are running out of time.
We have one final question.
You talked about the citycouncil and the amount of work
that they have to do, but you'vegot an opening on the city
council.
David Robinson (09:10):
Correct.
We had a resignation from Ward1 last night.
Our applications.
for an appointment.
We aren't going to hold aspecial election.
Those tend to be costprohibitive.
It's Councilor Mitch Parson'sseat, and his seat expires in
December of 2026.
So we are seeking communityapplicants for the appointment
(09:32):
to that position in Ward 1 toserve out the remainder of his
term.
RR (09:35):
City Attorney David Robinson, thanks for being here.
We'll have you back againbecause this is an ongoing
topic, especially with thereview of the charter.
It's critically important.
David Robinson (09:46):
If you get questions, I will be happy to
come back to answer moretechnical questions about
charter review.
In the meantime, everything ison our website, including the
resolution and an exhibit whereI wrote up two pages worth of
what is charter review, how doesit work, and how is it going to
work for you.
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RR (11:15):
Dark skies is something that is new to Lincoln City.
It is...
Maybe new, but it is an old wayof looking at the heavens above
us.
And with us right now, DonNielsen.
And Don, you are into darkskies throughout the state of
Oregon.
Dawn Nilson (11:33):
Yeah, and actually I'm pretty heavily involved
throughout the western states.
RR (11:38):
And tell me dark skies is really, for a novice, what?
Dawn Nilson (11:43):
So a dark sky is really an aim to restore a
natural night sky and maybe not,you know, we're not talking
about going back to a lifestylewhere there's no outdoor
lighting at night, no artificiallighting at night, but to not
keep increasing the amount oflight that we're emitting up
into the sky.
to get a handle on it.
(12:04):
And so the whole dark skymovement was started over 35
years ago by a group ofastronomers who realized, hey,
this is something we're losing.
We're losing the night.
We're losing the night.
And this advocacy came reallyto protect stars for observing.
And then folks like myself,who've been long an amateur
astronomer, but folks likeecologists and nurses and
(12:29):
doctors got engaged in it,recognizing the harm to NASA's
And so it's just become a prettybroad movement now across the
globe.
RR (12:40):
Dark Skies is taking on a forefront activity here in
Lincoln City.
Are you, I assume, involvedwith Lincoln City as well,
correct?
Dawn Nilson (12:51):
Right.
And I'm helping them in doingwhat we're calling a feasibility
assessment.
And it's really the firststage.
So the city council decided tokind of look forward into this
notion of getting, you know,applying for certification from
the international organizationDark Sky.
international who does thesecertifications they're kind of
(13:14):
like getting a leadcertification or organic food
certification but they'recertifications that you've met
all these criteria and then youget international recognition
and it attracts a lot of tourismas well as protecting your
local heritage i've helped thethe oregon outback in the oregon
(13:34):
outback in lake county whichhas the world's largest
international dark sky sanctuaryIt's two and a half million
acres.
Really?
Jana (13:45):
It's
Dawn Nilson (13:46):
the largest by far, yeah.
And I've helped on PrinevilleReservoir State Parks
certification and the city ofAntelope there in Central Oregon
certification and helping CaveJunction.
So, yeah, this is going onthroughout the state, but
nothing on the coast.
RR (14:05):
And nothing on the coast yet, right?
Dawn Nilson (14:08):
Right, right, yes.
RR (14:10):
You're underway with that now, though, are you not?
Dawn Nilson (14:15):
Yes, the city was interested in the idea of it,
and we spoke through that TribalOregon Consultation Program,
and the city realized they dohave lots of advantages to move
forward something like this.
But we said, let's do afeasibility to just really see,
(14:35):
is this something that thecommunity wants?
It can't be something that ahandful of people want.
It has to be something that thecommunity wants.
And if the community is onboard and interested in this
type of certification, thenwe'll move forward into that
next phase.
RR (14:53):
So it is moving forward.
What kind of activities are youlooking at doing with Dark
Skies in Lincoln City?
Dawn Nilson (15:01):
So one of the things we're doing is trying to
get an idea, just even a cursoryidea, of what the outdoor
lighting situation is like nowin the city.
So that
Jana (15:11):
means
Dawn Nilson (15:11):
the city-owned lights and lights on all the
commercial buildings and withinresidential neighborhoods to see
what they are in comparisonwith what Dark Sky International
calls the five principles ofresponsible outdoor lighting.
So just to get that handledfirst, And then to create
community engagement.
So we've had three stakeholdermeetings already and a public
(15:35):
open house to talk about some ofthose things that we've
discovered.
RR (15:39):
What do you look at the main thing to do here in Lincoln
City as far as dark skies?
Is there the beach?
Is it the highways?
Or is it all of the above?
Dawn Nilson (15:52):
it's all of the above it's a few short words but
it's the biggest thing for acommunity be a dark sky
community the only criteria thatall the other dark sky places
need to have is to really bedark you have to be pretty you
know have very minimal lightpollution like artificial light
into the sky but to be a darksky community you don't need to
(16:14):
really be dark you just need tobe committed to responsible
lighting practices and toeducation and outreach and so
that's the first step is tostart to kick off that that
outreach and The biggest thing,though, for a community is to
adopt a lighting policy.
And for a community, that meansgetting something into an
(16:37):
ordinance, an outdoor lightingordinance that matches those
five responsible lightingprinciples.
RR (16:43):
And you anticipate something like that happening in a year,
two years, 10 years?
What are we looking at?
Is there a time frame?
Dawn Nilson (16:51):
it depends on the community you know we're looking
to wrap up this first phase youknow within the summer so that
you know there's a decision atthat point is this something
that looks viable you knowbecause if the community is not
interested in kind of lightingpolicy and cooperating with this
kind of policy within the nextfive or ten years where you
(17:12):
would have to you know modifysome lighting to be consistent
with that policy then This isnot going to happen, at least
for the near term.
RR (17:22):
So, Don, if I wanted more information or to become
involved in the Dark Skyprogram, who do I call?
Where do I call?
Is there a website?
Where do we get theinformation?
Dawn Nilson (17:36):
Explore Lincoln City has, you know, if you delve
into their site, you'll seethat they have some information
on Dark Sky tourism.
There already was an event thatwas held April 24th in the
city, a nighttime event withlive music and lit lanterns.
And so they have a site.
The person, the contact personwould be Kim Cooper Finley, who
(18:00):
is the director for ExploreLincoln City.
And yeah, I would say Kim'syour first point of contact.
Also Stephanie Hull at ExploreLincoln City.
And they're putting togetherthis whole outreach, community
outreach, community engagementprogram.
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Dark skies,
RR (18:53):
alive skies.
Stefan is with us to talk againabout the opportunity to dream
about the stars and enjoy thestars.
Absolutely.
August is a good month forstargazing?
Sifan Kahale (19:08):
Yes, it is.
There's a lot of differentthings that are up.
Let's talk about planets, aboutall the planets that are up.
Mercury and Venus, forinstance, are going to be there.
But they're very close to thesun, so it means you have to
watch for them just after dark,just after the sun sets.
And also in the very earlymorning, just before the sun
rises, you'll be able to pickthose up.
(19:29):
Other than that, Mars, Jupiter,Saturn are going to be up, and
those will be visible.
And
RR (19:35):
whereabouts in the sky should I be looking?
Sifan Kahale (19:37):
Mars, I think, is going to be pretty much south to
south.
Well, I'm going to have toguess here.
I think southeast.
Okay.
But I'm not sure.
You'll be able to tell becauseit's going to be ruby red.
To
RR (19:50):
the naked eye?
To the naked eye.
To the naked eye.
Sifan Kahale (19:53):
These are naked eyes.
Jupiter will be sort of whitishand very bright and
unmistakable.
Saturn is going to be smaller,but it'll be yellow.
And that's sort of unmistakableas well.
It's going to be brighter thanany of the other stars around.
And they're all going to befound on what we call the
ecliptic, which is the same linethat the sun follows across the
horizon.
So it's an arc from the eastover to the west.
(20:16):
And all the planets are goingto be on that line.
So that's where you'll be ableto find
RR (20:22):
them.
This is a reflection ofsunlight, correct?
Or is it?
Sifan Kahale (20:25):
This is the reflection.
Yeah, the sunlight isreflecting off of each of these
different planets, which is aninteresting thing.
You know how bright the moonis?
Would you believe that thesurface of the moon is about the
same as the blacktop out hereon your street?
RR (20:39):
Uh-huh.
Sifan Kahale (20:40):
There's that bright.
The sun is that bright thatit's reflecting and the moon is
shining that bright.
But it's actually pretty darkmaterial.
RR (20:48):
Do we need super dark skies to be able to enjoy this?
Sifan Kahale (20:52):
No, no.
I think you might want to getout of the city to see it a
little bit better.
And especially out of the city,you'll be able to pick up a lot
of the other stars and a lot ofthe other background that's
there.
That'll make it really pretty.
RR (21:04):
Are there other stars that are going to be out that we're
going to be able to see, or willthere be...
Whatever.
Sifan Kahale (21:13):
Well, I think the best thing, especially for
August, is most people on theirsmartphones have an application
for looking at the stars.
Take a look at that and Googleand find out.
One of the things that shouldbe out then is Messier 13, which
is the great Hercules cluster.
It's a cluster of a couplehundred thousand stars all in
(21:37):
this little ball.
And through binocularsespecially, It's almost going to
look like a diamond becauseit's going to be sparkly.
So it's very, very pretty.
RR (21:46):
You get excited about this, don't you?
Sifan Kahale (21:49):
I sure do.
It's something I love.
RR (21:53):
Obviously.
Okay, so I want to get intothis love of astronomy that you
ensued.
What do I need to do?
Sifan Kahale (22:04):
Oh, my.
I think the very first thing isjust get out into dark skies.
That is probably the best.
For around here, Ickwich StatePark is a good one.
It's a park.
I don't know if it's a statepark.
The other one is CapeFoulweather.
Go out to the point therebecause you have a couple of
things.
You've got very beautiful darkskies, but off to the distance
(22:26):
you have Newport, which is sortof bright.
It gives a light dome, but it'svery beautiful to look at.
Go out there when you have asetting moon and watch the moon
set over the ocean.
RR (22:35):
That's beautiful.
Very good.
Sifan Kahale (22:37):
Now, if you really want to get jaw-dropping
excited, head to the highdesert.
Clarenoa unit of the John DayFossil Beds, Malher Field
Station, any of those kind ofplaces.
Some of those are Bortle 1 toBortle 2, which is the darkest
guys.
Which means what?
The Bortle is a rating from 1to 9 of how dark the skies are.
(23:00):
1 are pristine, the best youcan get.
And 9 is like downtown NewYork.
Do we get
RR (23:07):
to enjoy that here on the Oregon coast?
Sifan Kahale (23:10):
Here on the Oregon coast, I think the best we do
is about a 3.
It's about a Bortle 3.
If you go to Ickwich Park,that's probably a low Bortle 3.
You know, Bortle 3, Bortle 2,something like that.
So that's going to be prettydark.
But if you go, like I say, JohnDay or Mulher, You can walk in
(23:30):
the fields without a light, justby starlight.
Very starlight, star bright.
It is absolutely amazing.
It's jaw-dropping amazing.
The Milky Way from around herelooks like just a narrow band
across the sky.
From over there, it's probablyabout 50 to 60 degrees wide.
It's just huge.
(23:51):
I've got a little story to tellabout that.
I set up my telescopes andeverything doing astrophysics of
photography out at the MalheurField Station.
And what I do is you set in aqueue into the computers for the
things to do for the next halfan hour for the images to take.
So as it's doing that, I liketo sit or lay down on the ground
(24:13):
next to the scope and justwatch the skies.
And I was watching the MilkyWay and inside the Milky Way
there are these dark bands.
There are different nebulas andthings, clouds that are hiding
stars behind it.
But there's these dark bandsthat go through the Milky Way.
And I noticed that there wasanother band that wasn't there
(24:34):
before.
I mean, I didn't recognize it.
And as time went on, you know,you're looking at other things,
you look back, and I noticedthat band moved.
It was an earth cloud.
Everything is so dark therethat your clouds don't reflect
any of the light that younormally see when you see
(24:55):
clouds.
The only way you can tell thereare clouds is by what's missing
behind them.
So suddenly there's starsmissing that are supposed to be
there.
It's a cloud.
The skies are alive.
It's jaw-dropping, absolutelywonderful.
RR (25:12):
Siobhan, thanks for being here again.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
It's good stuff.
The skies are alive.
Look north, look south, lookup.
Sifan Kahale (25:20):
Absolutely.
In my trailer on my messages, Ihave carpe nocturnum.
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Discover it first by reading.
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Come discover.
RR (25:43):
So we've set a new charter for a number of different
activities and events takingplace in and around the Lincoln
City area, including the city ofLincoln City.
And that, again, I'd like toenforce the idea that they are
looking for additional people toserve on that committee.
Son Paul (26:00):
Yeah, and so since 1989, we haven't had a review of
our charter, and so this willbe led again with David Robinson
at guiding that as the cityattorney.
And they need some bodies inthere to not just be a warm
body, but to really dig intothat charter and help us renew
it for the next 25
RR (26:21):
years.
And speaking of the city, onWednesday, August 6th at 5.30 is
the library board meeting.
August 11th, we've got citycouncil.
August 13th, the public artscommittee.
Parks and Recreation Boardmeets on August 20th.
and the City Council again onAugust 25th.
Other activities coming up todraw attention to, we get the
(26:43):
Senior Fair.
It takes place October 7th atChinook Woods Casino Resort on
Tuesday, October 7th.
And then we're going to bestuffing the bus again, Paul.
September 5, we'll have anopportunity to get Sharon on
board with us and talk moreabout that.
Donations can be made at theLincoln City Outlets.
We are accepting bags ofback-to-school supplies already,
(27:08):
but the big Stuff-a-Busactivity will take place
September 5.
Celebration of Honor, one of myall-time favorite events in
Lincoln City, September 10, 11,and 12.
And Surf City, which is a majorfundraiser for Angels Anonymous
put on by Chinook Winds.
That's August 23rd and 24th.
And from your side of thetable, we have...
Son Paul (27:30):
Yeah, so Josh Havlin's going to be down there at the
15th Street Tide Pools againhere on August 9th, so coming up
here on a Saturday.
And then Duncan Berry's goingto take the helm of our
Explorants here on the next one.
Christina, who we had on just aweek ago, Tiwatini, she's going
(27:51):
to be taking a hiatus for a dayAnd Duncan's going to be taking
that home on August 14th.
That's a Thursday at NightPark.
So 10.30 start.
Join him for that event,Explorance of the Biosphere.
RR (28:04):
And last but not least, we'd like to remind everybody of the
Veterans Free Homemade Soup andSandwich Luncheon, sponsored by
the Lincoln City Elks Lodge at1350 Southeast Orr Avenue, twice
a month, the second and fourthWednesdays, noon to two.
It is free.
It is a soup and sandwichluncheon.
Anything else you said?
at the table?
I think we're clear from here.
(28:24):
That'll do it to the doings.
And for Paul and Jenna, I'mDouble R, reminding you to
always like, share, so peoplearound the world and across the
street will have an opportunityto enjoy the Double R Show as
well, which I did in Europe.
I like to hear that.
That's good to hear.
I love it, and it was fun.
(28:46):
We'll be back again next weekwith another new program on the
Double R Show.
Have a happy day.
Jana (28:53):
You've been listening to The Double R Show.
Join Roger and Paul Robertsonas they explore everything about
North Lincoln County.
The Double R Show produced byAlways Productions and hosted by
Roger Robertson.
Have a story?
Email contact atalwaysproductions.com or call
458-201-3039.
For The Double R Show, I'm JanaGrahn.
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