October 29, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of our monthly trainer Talk Series, we discuss the sticky situation of pricing for fitness professionals. Why is this such a senstive subject for fitness professionals? How can fit pros better understand their value for their services? We answer these questions and more in this roundable discussion with some of our fitness colleagues.
Hosts:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
To Darian Parker here on TrainerTalk series, this is a very
important series we do once a month with our awesome Co host
Julia and Caroline, founders of Mobius.
Always thankful for the come on here.
Ben Logwood is here with us on the round table.
Ben's an awesome guy. I've met Ben in person and just
(00:22):
a great guy and a big supporter of the industry, executive
fitness professional, everythingrolled up in the one that's been
right there. And then Doug Shrewdwick.
Doug is, I was just telling everyone, Doug's been on the
podcast before, like way back inthe day, like 700 episodes ago.
Check out that. You have to dope.
You have to dig deep though to find that one, like really deep.
(00:44):
But today we're talking about pricing, pricing and fitness and
well-being a lot to talk about with this.
So I'm just going to kick out a question first and our first
question just to kind of get this started is what do you
think? Why do you think pricing
continues to be kind of a hot button topic within fitness and
(01:04):
well-being? If I might jump in on this one.
Yeah, Doug, you go. OK, Taking a look at it from
having been a a manager in a commercial fitness commercial
gym, I think it's a really hot topic because it takes a look at
(01:27):
the fragility of the egos of personal trainers.
We tend to have big egos and tend to be very big
personalities, but the reality is that ego is also incredibly
fragile and many, many trainers underestimate their own value.
They don't appreciate what they have that they're bringing to
the table. And they'll tell everybody I've
got this, I've got this. But when push comes to shove,
(01:48):
they'll be afraid often of telling a new client, especially
younger trainers and newer trainers, telling somebody how
much it costs per second or whatit's going to take for them to
get there. And I find it really does come
down to a lower self esteem as atrainer and the value that they
place on themselves. Yeah, that's great, Doug.
(02:12):
I, I think I would, I would echoa bit of that because Darien and
I were chatting actually before we hit record.
And one of the things that I've seen in the industry is the ends
of the spectrum. I see trainers that have that
ego and want to charge through the roof and they see all these
fitness industry consultants charging thousands and
thousands, sometimes 10s of thousands of dollars for advice.
(02:35):
And they're going, oh man, if people can charge that, I can
charge 70% of that, right? They just make mistakes of
thinking that just because someone else charges something,
they can charge the same. And then I see the opposite
being held true mostly in the commercial side of fitness as
well, Doug, where trainers are afraid to maybe charge what
they're worth or don't know how to ask for more money.
(02:56):
Or maybe I like to call it thinking with your own wallet.
Maybe you're just starting off in the industry and so you think
$300 is crazy expensive, whereasthe 60 year old that owns their
own company is going 300 bucks. That was lunch.
And so it's, it's, it's finding that balance.
How do What's the formula behindfiguring out how to charge the
right amount for what you're worth without undervaluing
(03:17):
yourself Or, you know, pricing yourself out of even being
competitive at all? Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah. I think the it's a good.
I would also speak to the spectrum and I'm going to come
at it from now kind of that likeWellness side of fitness.
I'm also yoga teacher and Pilates and like all that can be
(03:41):
very, very expensive. And so on that spectrum I think
some of it is way overpriced. But the market that they're
trying to attract are people that are going to be able to
afford that type of that that pricing.
But then there's some people that are just like very good
(04:01):
hearted and want to help people,but completely undervalue
themselves. And so I think there's also, I
mean, yeah, I, I when Derry and said we were going to talk about
this, I was like, I think this is going to be the longest
episode because you can get intoso many different reasonings for
why in the pricing. And it comes down, there's ego
that plays into it. But on both ends of the
(04:24):
spectrum, understanding your worth, understanding what you're
bringing to the table, but also understanding what you're not
bringing to the table. And like, that's fine if you're
just starting out, like it's okay to be like, okay, I'm not,
I don't know injury prevention yet, so I'm not going to charge
for that type of thing. But yeah, I don't, I don't want
to say all my talking points right now, but yeah, I think
(04:45):
it's hard too, because there's like when you add on maybe a new
skill, there's no, there is no formula.
Like there's definitely factors like there is the location that
you're based in different citieslike New York, you can charge a
lot more than you can for like if you're maybe in a rural area
or more rural area, but there's no like, OK, now I have a
nutrition cert so now I can charge like $50 more per
(05:08):
session. Like it really it's hard to
create that like final number and I, I don't know is there is
there resources out there like how do people create those rates
in the first place? If I can jump in there, it's a
combination space like we're talking also from the the ego
(05:28):
side and everything from the trainer standpoint of
undervaluing and not knowing howto place values from like you,
you mentioned certification, which is a really good point.
I've known trainers at all ends of the spectrum from the highest
level in a multi tiered system and two companies I worked for
who it took an incredible amountof time for them to learn how to
properly appropriate these cardsfrom what they've learned based
(05:49):
on the quality of the certification.
But at the same time, I've had experienced trainers who
unfortunately listen too much toclients that complained about
their pricing. And I've as an example, one gym
that the gym while I was a manager, one of the trainers in
my care, he was a 15 year veteran.
We had levels one through 5 for the trainers with various
(06:12):
pricing. And he was at Level 3, soon to
go to level 4 because of a greatdeal of money he put out on
certification. And he had a trainer or sorry,
he had a client who was purchasing sessions online from
people who were moving or could no longer afford them.
But they were level 1 and level 2, which meant he was being paid
below what he was worth. And when I spoke to him and his
(06:34):
client, she insisted that she valued them and he insisted that
she did. But when I asked the question,
if that's the case, then why aren't you willing to pay what
he is worth and why aren't you willing to say no?
Two of these clients, I with my regional actually had to
introduce a rule where we stopped that from happening.
We couldn't allow that, especially for these experienced
(06:56):
trainer who has so much to bringto the table.
They need to see where their value really lies.
And that's where we saw a lot ofthem were listening to their
clients say, well, I can't pay this much.
And there was that fear the client wouldn't renew and they
wouldn't find another client. So it's a combination of things
on both ends. And again, I guess that really
ties into the trader's ego. Yeah, I agree with that, Doug.
(07:20):
I think, you know, when it comesto sales ability, that is one of
the things that I've seen withinthe industry, whether it be
Caroline Wellness side as well included, where most staff
members don't really understand how to be able to properly sell.
And then also, I think there's also a level of experience or
ability that comes into play maybe outside of certification
(07:42):
as well, possibly inclusive. But maybe you guys have heard
the old analogy of the ship mechanic that gets called up
because the, the, this battleship isn't, you know,
functioning. And the mechanic shows up, taps
on a valve and then sends the ship captain a $10,000 bill.
And the ship captain says $10,000.
All you do is tap a valve. He says, I didn't charge you for
(08:03):
the work. I charge you for knowing where
to tap. Exactly.
Exactly. In the fitness industry, you
know, we are in an industry where I got to know where to tap
because there's all kinds of different things that we now
have information on that we didn't 20-30 years ago where we
can look at hormone levels, we can look at what effect
nutrition has on your body outside of just calories in
(08:25):
versus calories out. We have different modalities of
fitness. We have different levels of
people that are now becoming waymore involved to Caroline's
point in Wellness to where recovery is now part of their
total programming as opposed to just how many times a week did
you hit the gym debate or this week?
So when you consider all of those things, it's the ability
(08:46):
to be able to price yourself forthe value of what you're
offering because of probably your experience.
And then secondarily, to Doug's point, being able to sell what
you're worth, that's that's a skill set in itself.
Yeah, yeah. And also what goes into a lot of
times when people can forget is that the session, the one hour
(09:07):
session that you do with your trainer is not the only time
that they're thinking about thatsession or preparing for that
session. So many hours goes into it.
I remember when I was doing, I honestly can't remember how much
I was charging for like a three month program, but the, they
wanted to pay like in bulk in that three month, but like the
(09:27):
cost was a little jarring to them.
And I was like, OK, like let's break it down to like my hourly
rate. And like, let's see, like I'm
going to be spending like 8-6 hours on your program per week
and I'm going to spend like an hour with you in person.
And I'm and I basically, I brokeit down to the math and I was
like, really, you're only payingme $20.00 an hour, which is
really quite insignificant. And so that I think was seeing
(09:52):
the math then to it. She was like, Oh my God, yeah, I
should be paying you more. And I was like, no, like this is
all part of the process, like whatever.
But I think that helps some people when it's like really
expensive. And I will say though, as
speaking then from the consumer side, being able to wade through
(10:16):
the bullshit or I don't know if I can curse, sorry, being able
to wade through some of these like fit influencers that are
kind of that one example of, oh,some people are charging $10,000
for five sessions. If I charge $1000, who cares?
And it's like, all right, being as a having to be like a smart
(10:37):
consumer, understanding what value you're getting out of it.
What are they? Have they, have you worked with
them before? After 5 sessions, have you
noticed any differences? Have you done any like stuff
like that? Yeah.
Caroline I, I actually just finished, so I, I, I do business
consulting for fitness businesses and Wellness
businesses. And I just finished a contract
(10:58):
with a business that was actually very heavily Dr. driven
to where they were trying to figure out a way to be able to
get more people in there. It's a physical space.
They've got locations, physical locations, but they're, what
they're doing is they're gettingdoctor referrals to get these
doctors to put to, to point people to a fitness center.
(11:18):
And so the fitness centers that they have, The thing is, it's a
very different product to where they're looking at biomarkers,
they're looking at the nutritionactivity.
They're, I mean, they're, they're doing a lot of
scientific backed programming for their clients.
Naturally, the program is quite expensive.
And. So what I ended up consulting
(11:40):
them to do, to your point, Caroline was on the front end of
the programming to allow a longer, actually quite generous
front end offering to where whensomeone comes in the door, they
give them a pretty extensive breakdown of everything,
programming in person sessions at a very, very low cost.
(12:02):
And the idea behind it is not necessarily to devalue the
programming, but to prove that what it's worth is what they're
charging. And so that's also something
that we, we haven't discussed yet is to, to your point, I've
got to be able to have a processor a funnel that allows people
to see what I'm worth, to see myvalue and allows me to be able
to prove myself to you, to make sure that I'm not just trying to
(12:25):
get you to throw $10,000 at me for no reason.
I'm going to prove to you that I'm worth it.
And I'm trust me, you're going to see the value and you're
going to see the results. Yeah.
That's where I find that things have changed.
Like I've been in the industry for over 20 years now and back
in the day, you had to have people see what you were doing
both with your clients and with yourself in the gym for them to
(12:46):
see what you were worth. They needed to actually have
that eyes on, whereas the young traders today have a greater
challenge in what you mentioned.Carolyn, real quick, you touched
on influencer, right and the Internet and how much all of
that has changed things with people seeing us all these
things and say, well, this person here is charging this
much and this much and you know,shouldn't I be charging that or
(13:07):
even clients coming and saying, Oh well, I got this program back
in the day. It used to be I got this
programs from bodybuilding.com or from Muscle and Fitness
magazine and we would talent herthat with information on where
there is something intended for them, right?
Whereas now you've got all theseinfluencers talking about things
online and people see that immediate and they copied that
real time, right? And so that's more of a
(13:29):
challenge I find for trainers coming in, even older trainers
who are still in the industry battling that and being able to
still maintain their own value without people actually looking
at what's being done with their clients.
For me, my sales for new clientsalways came off of the time I
spent with my current clients. I was saying, I saw you doing
(13:52):
this with so and so why? And then giving you the chance
to be able to explain and walk through all of those things.
Like you said, the time that we spend outside of that hour
researching, I, I specialized ininjured rehab and cancer
patients. It's a lot of time spent outside
of the gym, outside of that hourresearching, learning, calling,
(14:14):
you know, stuff that people don't take into account.
So could I charge more? Better believe it, some home
bills got to be paid, right? This is, this is part of that
whole process is understanding where that time gets factored in
and how much it costs. And like you said, that
teaching, teaching these trainers today how to
(14:34):
understand, to build that value into themselves, how to be able
to charge that and then teachingthem how to have that confidence
when going to the ask, right? The ask is always the tough
thing when you get to that pointin sales, in any kind of sale,
you know, either you're selling a car, selling a computer, or
selling a year's worth of training, understanding how to,
(14:54):
say, make that leap into the asswith confidence that you are
actually worth what you are telling them, right?
Totally. Continuing that education
spectrum that constantly rotatesaround, we educate ourselves
more in order to be able to charge more, but we also need to
include the education on how to approach it and how to calculate
(15:16):
and be able to, how to be able to relay that back out to our
clients, why we're worth that much.
Totally. Exactly.
Yeah, that's great. Doug, I, I had a conversation
with Carrie Saitowitz. She's the the chief marketing
and creative officer for New York sports clubs a few days
ago. And she mentioned something that
I thought was really good to, tothe point that you made about,
(15:39):
you know, competition of, of where people are getting
information, you know, oh gosh, man, you, you brought me back to
my college days like bodybuilding.com and buy an
expired protein powder because that's all I could afford.
But what, what, what Kerry mentioned, what Kerry mentioned
in our chat was the fact that what's to stop someone from
simply going to ChatGPT and saying, here's my weight, here's
(16:01):
my goal, here's my timeline, here's my nutrition.
You know, here's what I typically do.
Here's when I drop my kids off, give me a tailored program to
help me lose 20 lbs. There's nothing stopping them
from doing that. So we're not only competing with
other trainers anymore, we're also competing literally with AI
in figuring out how to be able to help people see results.
And so I think that goes back, Doug, to your point that you
(16:23):
were making about the training that people are getting or
trainers are getting on how to be able to present the value of
themselves. We also can't let people get
caught up in the hourly rate. That's typically what we do.
That's been the history of the industry is what's your rate per
hour? What's your rate per hour?
Can you give me cheaper? Can you give me cheaper?
We run promotions and we give you 5 sessions free or I'll
just, it's the end of the month.I got to do whatever it tastes
(16:44):
to get the sale. So I'll give you 10 sessions
free and we end up just devaluing ourselves.
And so nowadays there's so many different options available.
I can do in studio and virtual PTI can do all inclusive kits to
where you have access to my blogand my tools and whatever I can
do hybrid packages, I can. I can use AI to help me build
(17:07):
out programming for you as a trainer.
I can either see it as competition or I can see it as
tools. And so that's where I think the
pricing, I would encourage anyone listening to this episode
also reevaluate and audit your current structure and think
outside the box. Are there ways to make this
worth more or make your time worth more by not letting your
(17:30):
clients get caught up in what you're charging them per hour?
Because to Caroline's point, if I have to work it backwards for
everybody just to every time I get a price objection, that's
exhausting. So do I have different options
available on how I charge or what that even looks like or
what sort of services I'm offering you where I can build
resources to help me as opposed to my time being a trade off for
(17:51):
dollars every time? I also think it's interesting
kind of the understanding of like what a trainer personal
session or personal training session is worth.
I think, and I'm curious what everyone else thinks on this,
how the equinoxes of the world or even like any kind of gym of
the world has like shaped what that cost is.
(18:16):
And so kind of what I mean by that is like if when I was at
when I was working as a personaltrainer at a gym, a session was
for them was worth like $210.00 per session and I would make or
65 or $70.00 of that $210.00. So I'm like, OK, this person is
willing to pay $210.00, but I amonly making $70, which is crazy.
(18:42):
But I do think that. And then along with that, I
think a lot of trainers that go through that silo, then after
like a year or two, when they find their client base, they're
like, hey, I'm taking this private.
I'm going to, this is going to be my, you're going to be paying
the same thing. But now it's all coming to my
pocket. So I'm curious as like
everyone's been in industry for a while, like what your thoughts
(19:04):
are on how gyms and studios haveshaped how much we pay trainers
and fitness professionals for the good or the bad of it.
Yeah, I think. Oh, sorry.
Go ahead, Julie. I was just going to say
something quick, but I feel likewith like the Equinoxes and the
gyms, they're selling a brand. It's like clothing.
(19:24):
It's the same piece of clothing and like you're getting the same
exact item and quality. But because there's a brand
slapped on it, consumers will pay more.
But then if you take that same client out of the gym context
and you now go independent, theymight not be willing to pay the
same amount because for whateverreason, like psychologically it
doesn't feel as valuable. So I think that's, I mean,
that's just how it's been for solong, but I think it does a huge
(19:46):
disservice to those independent trainers that have like all this
expertise and they're worth so much, but because they don't
have a brand associated with them and it's kind of gets into
the whole like social media influencer thing again, it's
tough for them to charge what they're worth because there's
that mental barrier. Yeah, I think, you know, I as a
(20:07):
consultant, I've seen a lot of situations because I think we
have to think about it from bothends of the spectrum.
I think as a coach, do do you have a baseline as to where the
other gyms are charging and you have to start somewhere.
So maybe you do start at a lowerpercentage or a lower dollar
amount to get your feet underneath.
You get the experience that we discussed earlier in the call
(20:28):
and get to a point where you cancharge more down the road.
Maybe that's what it is. But also from an employer
standpoint, you know, I have hadcountless conversations with
trainers that said they want to go try it on their own.
Like, yeah, I think I'm done. I just, I know how to do this.
I'm I've, I've got this on my own and there's things that they
just don't think about, like thefact that, oh, by the way, my
(20:49):
friend Iris spelled IRS is goingto come after you at the end of
the year to make sure that you pay taxes on everything that
you've made. They're going to Caroline just
got the joke. I was.
Like. Like who's Iris?
They don't think about, they don't think about taxes.
They don't think about the fact that if somebody comes after
you, they're not going after Equinox, they're going after
(21:09):
you. So, yeah, because because of the
liability insurance that you don't have to carry, that the
gym usually carries. Oh, where are you going to find
all your equipment, the $3,000,000 worth of equipment
that Equinox has that you don't,that maybe you can train
somebody at a personal gym or whatever the case.
I mean, there's just all these variables that people don't
think about. And and also by the way, the
(21:31):
fact that there's 11,000 people inside of Equinox that are ready
for you to be able to present to, whereas when you go out on
your own, you got to go find them.
I mean, it's hard, Marketing is hard.
And so all of these aspects of agym are why you pay the gym 40%
of what you're making because you didn't have to do any of
that. They did it for you.
(21:51):
So I do think seeing both sides of the equation is important
because absolutely, you know, asa business owner myself, I get
it. I understand that there's value
and I think I can do this on my own.
And you know, yeah, I had to fall on my face a few times and
figure it out over my years, butI but I did.
Whereas a lot of people just don't and they end up going back
to the industry because it's safe.
They don't have to think about insurance, they don't have to
(22:12):
think about taxes. They can BW2.
There's, there's, there's a lot of variables to consider,
whether you're thinking about going out on your own again for
our listeners, or if maybe the Safeway is the way for you
because you have a path in the management or you have a path to
be able to get a, a high salary to run the place one day or
whatever the case may be. So it's it's different for every
person, is what I'm trying to say.
Very. Cool.
(22:35):
Yeah, definitely for every person.
Sorry, go ahead there. Yeah.
No, I was going to say, Ben, I really resonate with that.
I mean, I, as someone who was run clubs before and then have
my own businesses, you know, it's difficult to start on your
own. And what I'm seeing is a lot of
(22:55):
newer trainers, they want to start on that direction first.
They want to become entrepreneurs.
They see it all the time. There's social media and
different things. They see the glitz and glamour
of it, but don't understand thatit's, it's an incredibly hard
venture to go out on your own and start sourcing things.
Whereas it's kind of like, I'm going to make this comparison.
(23:16):
When you're in college, if you went to college, whatever,
meeting friends is pretty easy because they're relationships of
convenience, because you're in aplace where a lot of people are
out at the same time that are doing what you're doing.
And as soon as you're not in college, you get out of the
relationships of convenience. It's basic.
Like you become an entrepreneur.It's harder to make friends
because it's not, you don't havethat population any more people,
(23:38):
just everyone doing the same thing, running around on campus,
going to class, all those different things, such as much,
much more difficult. And I think the pricing aspect
of pricing when you're on your own has to incorporate all the
different things that you never even thought about doing when
you were working for a club, which which which is a really
(23:59):
big aspect. And like Ben said with talking
about the IRS, understanding, you know, protecting yourself
through LLC's, partnerships, things of that nature, liability
insurance, all this stuff was taken care of for you before.
That's as Doug mentioned before,there's a lot of time now you're
having to spend on other things,which increases and in many ways
(24:22):
the value of what you're doing because you're, you're literally
the number one employee. You, you're, you're, you, you
are doing everything yourself. That comes with a different
price tag and a different effortlevel for that as well.
Yeah, that's a great point. And I also, I do kind of want to
go back to the Chad GBT thing and I think it's a very, there's
(24:47):
a lot of freemium options like oh, here here's my easy like 5
day dumbbell workout. You can get it for free, blah,
blah. Like there's so many fitness can
be very accessible. But I will say, and I it's I
didn't expect the conversation to go this way because we're all
kind of agreeing that you shouldbe paid what you're worth, which
(25:09):
I didn't think we would disagreeon.
I'm just saying I thought maybe we'd be like, Oh my God, people
are paying way too much for fitness.
But where was I going? Oh yes, those that do the
ChatGPT route injuries or it's not like the data that ChatGPT
is pulling from is pulling from data that might not relate to
(25:30):
you as at all. Like if we even break down like
what you're saying with hormones, like we're still
studying women. We I don't, I shouldn't say
we're still studying. We're just starting to study
women on how like fitness is like a little bit different for
them. So what ChatGPT is pulling for
you, for you is actually not at all really meant for you.
(25:50):
So unfortunately, AI cannot actually, I should say,
fortunately, AI cannot create any information on its own.
It's pulling from data that already exists.
So what you're getting is whatever is out there, it's just
being curated a bit faster. But yeah, I, I always noticed
some people that start the free route will always make their way
(26:12):
to paying a bit more because they realize it's not working.
Yeah, I think there's a balance in like proving to those types
of clients or those types of people like what value you're
getting from a human training. You like you have all this
expertise, you have all these previous clients and case
studies of people that you've helped like transform their
lives. I think there's definitely an
element of of showing that valueto them when you're kind of
(26:35):
selling them. But I will also say there are
definitely people that they werenever going to be your customer.
Like maybe they expressed interest, but you will never
sell them. And I think it's important to
also like, just be ready, like be able to say no to them
because they're never going to pay you what you're worth.
And like, instead of trying to kind of barter, just coming to
that realization and yeah, and saying no and like just trying
(26:58):
to focus on the people that willeventually convert.
That's such a good point. I had a client that was like
sold on, oh, the keto diet and Idid not, I have never trained
anyone on a keto diet. I don't have background or
understanding of keto. And I was like, I will not do
that with you if you want to train with me.
She was just like, I really, really, really want you to add
(27:19):
in keto stuff. And I was like, I can't, I'm not
going to do that. But she still paid me and wanted
me to be her trainer. But every single I started
getting anxious because I was like, I feel like I'm not, I'm
not doing what she's paying for.Even though I said straight up I
was like, I will not go into theketo.
And at the end of each like month when we'd like catch up or
(27:40):
I think it was every week actually.
So it's pretty, pretty stressfulmonth.
She would like kind of bring up that she really wished she was
doing keto. And my lesson from that was
exactly that. Don't take a client that is not
your fit. Like it's as much as like the
client finding you as you finding a client as well.
And if it's going to be someone that you're like pulling your
hair out over because they want something that you are just not
(28:03):
providing, cut, cut your losses.Well put, well put.
I definitely have to agree with that.
I've seen a lot of that over theyears through myself and with
other screeners. And it it lends itself to, there
was an experience I had with theyoung Screener that was
shadowing with my clients. And we would always kind of do a
(28:23):
little debrief after each clientand goes through and, you know,
answer his questions and find out what it was that interested
him the most. And it often came back to
conversations around pricing as with my clients, they would
bring those up too. And I always believed in
transparency with my clients. I was spoke hopefully about what
it was I got versus the company or you know, where the value
was. And this one young Screener
(28:45):
asked me one question that for abrief moment it kind of signing
me against some. But it goes to you and your
integrity, Carolyn, what you were saying about that to
maintaining that integrity, which is hard for new trainers
when they start, they just want to take clients on.
And it takes and takes time and maturity and wisdom to be able
to stop and say, no, I don't do that.
But maybe we can find somebody better for you.
(29:06):
This trainer stopped on our debrief and he looked at me and
he said, OK, we talked about allthese things and this, this,
this coughed this. He said, what volume do you put
on care and integrity? I have no idea what to sell.
I'll be completely honest. But I think that's something
that has to be in there too, is if you genuinely care and you
want to maintain your integrity,you have to think about what the
(29:28):
value is for that. Are you willing to let go of
those clients who maybe have a rough month?
Or are you going to kind of let your integrity go a little bit
and say, OK, I'll do this. And that's another thing that
comes into that pricing and thatconversation with clients,
right? Yeah, yeah, Doug, I, I agree.
I think, you know, for, for newer trainers that are maybe
(29:50):
listening to this episode, I will say that, you know, I kind
of fell into my niche when I first started personal training.
I was actually working in physical therapy at a hospital,
got to see a lot of inpatient and outpatient clients, cardiac
clients, pulmonary client, like I just, I saw a lot of stuff
because I was working in a hospital.
(30:10):
And so whenever I started personal training, I was taking
on really any and every client and anyone that had a disease or
an issue that I hadn't heard of,I just studied my butt off to
make sure that I knew what to dowith that person, you know?
And so I do think that there's abalance there.
And at first, I mean outside of safety precautions, of course,
(30:30):
you know, if there's someone that has a something that maybe
required certification for or something in that regard,
absolutely safety first. But whenever there's clients
that maybe you're unfamiliar with their situation, if you're
new, you better figure it out and spend the hours to learn
because you need to pay your bills.
And So what I ended up doing is I figured out that my niche was
(30:51):
all the clients that every othertrainer was scared to deal with.
All the ones that had all of these heart issues and medical
issues that they just weren't sure what to do.
I'm like, okay, I figured out myniche and I ended up doing
really well with that until I ended up getting into
management. And so for our listeners, I
would say if you if, if you're new to this, just study your
butt off and figure out how to be able to help as many people
(31:13):
as you can so you can find your niche.
Because I know there's a lot of trainers out there that haven't
really figured out what they love or what they're really good
at yet. So they're still, you know, 20
years into their career and justkind of seeing whoever will have
will happen to write them a check because they're still just
trying to make ends meet. When in reality, the more niche
you are, the better you're goingto be able to speak to that
(31:35):
specific group of people and themore they're going to pay you
because you specialize in what they're dealing with.
I mean, think about it, if I've,if I've got a specific type of
vehicle and I do a Google searchfor mechanics, I'm going to get
a huge list of mechanics. But if I type in this is the
type of car and this is the issue that I have and a mechanic
pops up that says that's what I do, you better believe I'll pay
twice as much for the specialist.
(31:56):
So training is no different. And that is one of the areas
where I think we don't really talk about marketing ourselves
much in the fitness industry, atleast in this way to where we
can help people understand how to be able to figure out what
they like doing and how they cancharge as much as they walk for
it because it's what they specialize in.
Yeah. And also like when you take on
all those clients, who are the ones that are staying and why?
(32:19):
And so when I first started training, I was doing in person
and online. And the main reason that people
would stay with me is because I would find I have the background
in engineering and that's kind of how I approach fitness and
anatomy, just kind of like a little puzzle.
And I would see like their kneescaving in this way.
(32:39):
And then I'd ask them, oh, do you have like hip issues or oh,
does your, do your feet hurt when you run?
And they're like, what the heck?Yeah, they do.
And so I like would be very specific on like aches and pains
that, like won't go away. And so that's how I started,
like finding my niche. And people would pay me way more
because I like just focused on those little tiny details and I
made their movement less painful.
(33:02):
And a lot of people ended up coming to me after injuries or
if they had a chronic knee pain or chronic back pain or anything
like that. That was when I started like
when I found my niche, I should say found me.
And maybe that also is like helpful in terms of pricing in
the beginning. Take take on clients, try to
(33:23):
stay away from people that are mean and, but and then once you
find your niche, like really lean into it and price yourself.
You're worth that niche. I'm like, I've helped 20 or over
like 3550 people start with me and end pain free.
Like if that's your niche chargefor that.
(33:45):
I also remember my mom is a yogateacher and yoga is very like no
ego. We're here to help everyone.
And that's like the ethos of yoga and it's wonderful, but you
also do need to survive and pay yourself and all that stuff.
And it was really hard for my mom to charge what she was worth
because of that whole ethos of yoga.
(34:07):
And she wanted to be helpful foreveryone.
And she was like running around doing all these privates.
Some are paying her one cost, some are paying her another.
And I like I obviously didn't say this, I was like 12 years
old, but someone that was like her mentor said like, no, you
can't one why are you allowing someone to pay you charging
someone else more? That is like, what?
(34:29):
Why do you feel more worth worthit for this person and less for
that? And like really own what your
price is Because you have to understand like unfortunately
you can't help everyone. And maybe you can have like some
one off offerings for people that are really struggling and
just want a little bit of help but can't afford it.
Yeah, that's. Good, really.
(34:49):
Actually, Ben, I want to double down.
On what you're talking about niching down for that in regards
to pricing, I just think it's really important to and it's
true a lot of trainers don't find that.
They don't find that ever. They're just basically fly by
night stuff. I can tell you for me, I know
that pretty immediately, I have my doctorate.
You clearly don't need to have your doctorate to be a trainer,
(35:11):
work in the business. But one of the things I realized
is I love relationship building.And and this also goes back to
AI too, is that I knew that focusing my training business as
a way to help people have betterrelationships with people in
their lives and with themselves was going to be very beneficial
is to become more human. And I actually think because of
(35:33):
AI and different systems, that human connectivity will be the
premium price point for the future moving on, because
becoming more human will become less common in what we're doing.
And I think a lot of newer trainers, they don't understand
that because they're their focusis living in a very digital
world as we continue to move forward in that.
(35:56):
But that human connectivity and finding your niche, whatever
that is, will become a premium product for you, whatever that
niche is. But I find that becoming more
human actually makes you more valuable in our space.
And there's a reason why I always tell people I love what I
do because I get to see the rawest version of people on a
(36:17):
regular basis. I see them when they're not in
their business suit or they're out there in a meeting.
I see them when they just got out of bed and they're just kind
of like wearing whatever they'rethinking.
And they're just like telling meall the real stuff.
The joy, the pain, the hurt, thethe triumphs, the graduations,
all of that stuff. You're actually providing maybe
(36:38):
one of the greatest things a human can get, which is time
with another person uninterrupted.
And most of my clients tell me my time with you is my alone
time. I'm away from my kids, I'm away
from my spouse. I'm not at work.
I get to just focus on me. You know how much money that's
worth today? You're a crazy amount of money
today. So don't undersell yourself
(36:59):
Nisha into. It's so important.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have to absolutely have
to agree. Like I got thrust into, into a
rehab simply by taking over clients who have been injured by
other trainers who had left the gym, You know, the management
and everything was just like, oh, we need somebody who's
(37:20):
really good. And my clients, similar to what
you were saying, Carolyn, about the, your, your engineering kind
of perspective of looking at people.
My clients called it Dougie's X-ray digit.
The way that I looked at them, the way that I watched them and
the way I watched them move and questions I would ask in order
to try and break down what was happening, right?
And that was my process for the assessment.
(37:40):
It was my system. And I fell into that niches and
that really saved my life. And it helped me be able to go
from being one of those traders who was just trying to, you
know, pick up everybody to be able to sit there and say, no,
no, you're really not somebody that I, I want to work with or
that really needs what my skillsare.
(38:01):
But I do have a waiting list of people who are desperate for
somebody who can help me, you know, had help with that repair,
whatever their repair was. So, yeah, definitely the niche
is the weighted goals. And a lot of, I found a lot of
big box stamps here in Canada trying to push you out of the
niche. They like to have the people who
are kind of everything, Oh, I doanything that's great, that's
(38:23):
great. But I found the people who did
have a niche are the ones who built.
And this goes back to you Darianand filled the best
relationships, the strongest relationships with their
clients. I had the privilege of training
somebody. We took a little break toward
the end of her pregnancy. 18 years later, I got to train her
son. So like that kind of longevity.
(38:45):
That's the relationship, right. That's the time that you can't
necessarily put a price on. That's 20 years of connectivity
with somebody and with people and to, you know, to have that
requires the right type of energy and the right type of
attitude and the right self esteem is sense of self value.
So to be able to do that on thatniche is really, I would agree
(39:08):
with you that that's what will make you the most successful,
being able to brand your niche in the right ways.
Yeah. Yeah.
I would add to that Doug, you know.
I was doing a sales training actually for a franchise network
last week, and we were talking about relationships when it came
to the sales process, but we were taking it a different route
(39:28):
than just simply discovery questions.
Yes, absolutely. You need to figure out why
someone is there. But what we have to realize is
most people, you know, Caroline,you were talking about ChatGPT
earlier. Why does somebody use ChatGPT
instead of just investing in a trainer to begin with?
Well, fear because they don't have a good relationship with
(39:50):
the gym because they've never been able to get the results
themselves, because they've had a bad experience in the past.
It's the relationship. And So what we're trying to do
as fitness professionals is we're trying to help change the
relationship that someone has with their body.
We're trying to change the relationship that they have with
allowing another human being to be a part of their journey.
And so when you're open to that and you help them understand
(40:12):
that that's where you sell high ticket packages because you're
you're opening a relationship tohelp them have a better
relationship. With themselves and with fitness
in general. And when they see that as
opposed to what are you chargingme per hour?
How many sessions do I get? Are you going to give me a free
session? Can you give me a discount?
When you take the focus off of the cost and into what's going
(40:32):
to change into the future, that's where you're able to help
people see your value. Because I mean, what it what
would it be worth for you to actually enjoy going to the gym
five years from now? That's a different question then
what are your goals? How many sessions do you how
many sessions do you want? I mean, like, I got a promo like
it, it just changes the conversation.
(40:52):
It just changes the conversationtotally.
And it's not what they tip. I mean, it's not what they
expect when they walk in the door.
And so when you're speaking the language of what's that pain
point and how can I help you with that?
I mean, you're you're opening upissues that they didn't realize
they had. Most people don't realize they
have a bad relationship with thegym until we open up that can of
worms and get them to go. Oh, my gosh, yeah, you're right.
(41:13):
OK, maybe I do need this help. Yeah, maybe.
I have been looking up workouts on ChatGPT because I was afraid
I was going to throw money at this and get nothing out of it
again. That's such a good point.
Yeah, you're really selling a journey and like, I don't even
want to say outcome because it'slike the journey that never
ends. It's an ongoing thing.
You're not selling a session, you're not selling an hour in
the gym. It's really like this holistic
(41:34):
journey and lifestyle change. And I think like that's that's
kind of the thing that has to come through to people when
you're when you're selling your services.
It's great. Yeah, that's such a good point.
And. Also like understanding yourself
that when you're with whomever, you're going to potentially have
a client, whoever that client is, like you also have to buy
(41:56):
into their journey as well. And like that again, is why you
should be worth it. It's like I'm in this with you,
like we're going to do this together and that's what you're
selling. I love that.
That's so nice. Well, I think part of it too is.
Understanding in perhaps simple terms what your product really
is. This was a conversation I used
(42:18):
to have a lot, and I actually was in a little mini conference
with one company I was with and we brought in Bobby Cappuccio to
speak to us. And that was absolutely amazing
to meet somebody I'd read so much of and I'd listen to his
his videos and stuff like that. But to have him kind of
(42:38):
literally peeled me apart as he asked all of us to write down
what our mission was and what our our product was.
And I had this wonderful like huge paragraph and everything.
And he was like, OK, Doug, you. And he literally peeled it apart
question by question by questionuntil we discovered that my
product was a smile on my client's face as they come back.
(43:01):
Not smile on the way out, not sweat, not the machines, not,
you know, all the training, all the, it was the smile and the
joy and the love that that client had as they will reach
burning as they were coming backfor more, right?
You make them sweat, you make them hurt.
You get right all those things. But it's all the other things
that care, the kindness, the integrity that brings them back.
(43:25):
That's where your products. For me, that was from what my
product was in simple terms withthe smile on their face.
And I think for all trainers, it's the able to identify what
their product is, then they can identify what their mission
statement truly is. Very simply, very small, not big
fancy paragraphs. I love that me.
(43:45):
Too. It's a lot it almost.
Is like man. I always do say this.
Oh, go for it. No, no, please go ahead.
I want to. Respect everyone's time here,
but Caroline, you are ready to go for this one.
I mean, you like had I feel likeyou have notes you have like
right, you wrote down notes and everything in there.
You're ready to go. I do I.
(44:06):
Do I do have notes? But I was going to say the IT
just is so similar. And I've said this since Julie
and I started our company together, but being a personal
trainer or like a freelance fitness professional is exactly
like starting your own startup. The whole, every single lesson
(44:27):
that you learn within it is exactly the same niche, mission,
division or product offering. Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, most definitely man you. Guys are amazing.
This was even more robust than Ithought it would be.
But you know, I'd love doing this trainer talk series because
it's it's important to have these conversations between with
(44:49):
each other and then to get it out there.
And they probably think I'm excited about most is these now
go into the curriculum of the colleges that I teach.
So a lot of students listen to this now that are going to
become trainers and fitness professionals.
So I'm grateful for each of you for contributing to the
education of students who will be one day colleagues of ours
(45:13):
and contributing to our industry.
And obviously this goes out to our current colleagues and
different channels all, all out there on the Internet.
And hopefully we have more of these discussions in person as
well too. So I just want to thank each of
you for being a part of this andI'm, I'm very grateful for your
time. Thank you so much so.
(45:36):
Nice chatting. With all of you.
To Darian Parker here on TrainerTalk series, this is a very
important series we do once a month with our awesome Co host
Julia and Caroline, founders of Mobius.
Always thankful for the come on here.
Ben Logwood is here with us on the round table.
Ben's an awesome guy. I've met Ben in person and just
(00:22):
a great guy and a big supporter of the industry, executive
fitness professional, everythingrolled up in the one that's been
right there. And then Doug Shrewdwick.
Doug is, I was just telling everyone, Doug's been on the
podcast before, like way back inthe day, like 700 episodes ago.
Check out that. You have to dope.
You have to dig deep though to find that one, like really deep.
(00:44):
But today we're talking about pricing, pricing and fitness and
well-being a lot to talk about with this.
So I'm just going to kick out a question first and our first
question just to kind of get this started is what do you
think? Why do you think pricing
continues to be kind of a hot button topic within fitness and
(01:04):
well-being? If I might jump in on this one.
Yeah, Doug, you go. OK, Taking a look at it from
having been a a manager in a commercial fitness commercial
gym, I think it's a really hot topic because it takes a look at
(01:27):
the fragility of the egos of personal trainers.
We tend to have big egos and tend to be very big
personalities, but the reality is that ego is also incredibly
fragile and many, many trainers underestimate their own value.
They don't appreciate what they have that they're bringing to
the table. And they'll tell everybody I've
got this, I've got this. But when push comes to shove,
(01:48):
they'll be afraid often of telling a new client, especially
younger trainers and newer trainers, telling somebody how
much it costs per second or whatit's going to take for them to
get there. And I find it really does come
down to a lower self esteem as atrainer and the value that they
place on themselves. Yeah, that's great, Doug.
(02:12):
I, I think I would, I would echoa bit of that because Darien and
I were chatting actually before we hit record.
And one of the things that I've seen in the industry is the ends
of the spectrum. I see trainers that have that
ego and want to charge through the roof and they see all these
fitness industry consultants charging thousands and
thousands, sometimes 10s of thousands of dollars for advice.
(02:35):
And they're going, oh man, if people can charge that, I can
charge 70% of that, right? They just make mistakes of
thinking that just because someone else charges something,
they can charge the same. And then I see the opposite
being held true mostly in the commercial side of fitness as
well, Doug, where trainers are afraid to maybe charge what
they're worth or don't know how to ask for more money.
(02:56):
Or maybe I like to call it thinking with your own wallet.
Maybe you're just starting off in the industry and so you think
$300 is crazy expensive, whereasthe 60 year old that owns their
own company is going 300 bucks. That was lunch.
And so it's, it's, it's finding that balance.
How do What's the formula behindfiguring out how to charge the
right amount for what you're worth without undervaluing
(03:17):
yourself Or, you know, pricing yourself out of even being
competitive at all? Absolutely.
Yeah, Yeah. I think the it's a good.
I would also speak to the spectrum and I'm going to come
at it from now kind of that likeWellness side of fitness.
I'm also yoga teacher and Pilates and like all that can be
(03:41):
very, very expensive. And so on that spectrum I think
some of it is way overpriced. But the market that they're
trying to attract are people that are going to be able to
afford that type of that that pricing.
But then there's some people that are just like very good
(04:01):
hearted and want to help people,but completely undervalue
themselves. And so I think there's also, I
mean, yeah, I, I when Derry and said we were going to talk about
this, I was like, I think this is going to be the longest
episode because you can get intoso many different reasonings for
why in the pricing. And it comes down, there's ego
that plays into it. But on both ends of the
(04:24):
spectrum, understanding your worth, understanding what you're
bringing to the table, but also understanding what you're not
bringing to the table. And like, that's fine if you're
just starting out, like it's okay to be like, okay, I'm not,
I don't know injury prevention yet, so I'm not going to charge
for that type of thing. But yeah, I don't, I don't want
to say all my talking points right now, but yeah, I think
(04:45):
it's hard too, because there's like when you add on maybe a new
skill, there's no, there is no formula.
Like there's definitely factors like there is the location that
you're based in different citieslike New York, you can charge a
lot more than you can for like if you're maybe in a rural area
or more rural area, but there's no like, OK, now I have a
nutrition cert so now I can charge like $50 more per
(05:08):
session. Like it really it's hard to
create that like final number and I, I don't know is there is
there resources out there like how do people create those rates
in the first place? If I can jump in there, it's a
combination space like we're talking also from the the ego
(05:28):
side and everything from the trainer standpoint of
undervaluing and not knowing howto place values from like you,
you mentioned certification, which is a really good point.
I've known trainers at all ends of the spectrum from the highest
level in a multi tiered system and two companies I worked for
who it took an incredible amountof time for them to learn how to
properly appropriate these cardsfrom what they've learned based
(05:49):
on the quality of the certification.
But at the same time, I've had experienced trainers who
unfortunately listen too much toclients that complained about
their pricing. And I've as an example, one gym
that the gym while I was a manager, one of the trainers in
my care, he was a 15 year veteran.
We had levels one through 5 for the trainers with various
(06:12):
pricing. And he was at Level 3, soon to
go to level 4 because of a greatdeal of money he put out on
certification. And he had a trainer or sorry,
he had a client who was purchasing sessions online from
people who were moving or could no longer afford them.
But they were level 1 and level 2, which meant he was being paid
below what he was worth. And when I spoke to him and his
(06:34):
client, she insisted that she valued them and he insisted that
she did. But when I asked the question,
if that's the case, then why aren't you willing to pay what
he is worth and why aren't you willing to say no?
Two of these clients, I with my regional actually had to
introduce a rule where we stopped that from happening.
We couldn't allow that, especially for these experienced
(06:56):
trainer who has so much to bringto the table.
They need to see where their value really lies.
And that's where we saw a lot ofthem were listening to their
clients say, well, I can't pay this much.
And there was that fear the client wouldn't renew and they
wouldn't find another client. So it's a combination of things
on both ends. And again, I guess that really
ties into the trader's ego. Yeah, I agree with that, Doug.
(07:20):
I think, you know, when it comesto sales ability, that is one of
the things that I've seen withinthe industry, whether it be
Caroline Wellness side as well included, where most staff
members don't really understand how to be able to properly sell.
And then also, I think there's also a level of experience or
ability that comes into play maybe outside of certification
(07:42):
as well, possibly inclusive. But maybe you guys have heard
the old analogy of the ship mechanic that gets called up
because the, the, this battleship isn't, you know,
functioning. And the mechanic shows up, taps
on a valve and then sends the ship captain a $10,000 bill.
And the ship captain says $10,000.
All you do is tap a valve. He says, I didn't charge you for
(08:03):
the work. I charge you for knowing where
to tap. Exactly.
Exactly. In the fitness industry, you
know, we are in an industry where I got to know where to tap
because there's all kinds of different things that we now
have information on that we didn't 20-30 years ago where we
can look at hormone levels, we can look at what effect
nutrition has on your body outside of just calories in
(08:25):
versus calories out. We have different modalities of
fitness. We have different levels of
people that are now becoming waymore involved to Caroline's
point in Wellness to where recovery is now part of their
total programming as opposed to just how many times a week did
you hit the gym debate or this week?
So when you consider all of those things, it's the ability
(08:46):
to be able to price yourself forthe value of what you're
offering because of probably your experience.
And then secondarily, to Doug's point, being able to sell what
you're worth, that's that's a skill set in itself.
Yeah, yeah. And also what goes into a lot of
times when people can forget is that the session, the one hour
(09:07):
session that you do with your trainer is not the only time
that they're thinking about thatsession or preparing for that
session. So many hours goes into it.
I remember when I was doing, I honestly can't remember how much
I was charging for like a three month program, but the, they
wanted to pay like in bulk in that three month, but like the
(09:27):
cost was a little jarring to them.
And I was like, OK, like let's break it down to like my hourly
rate. And like, let's see, like I'm
going to be spending like 8-6 hours on your program per week
and I'm going to spend like an hour with you in person.
And I'm and I basically, I brokeit down to the math and I was
like, really, you're only payingme $20.00 an hour, which is
really quite insignificant. And so that I think was seeing
(09:52):
the math then to it. She was like, Oh my God, yeah, I
should be paying you more. And I was like, no, like this is
all part of the process, like whatever.
But I think that helps some people when it's like really
expensive. And I will say though, as
speaking then from the consumer side, being able to wade through
(10:16):
the bullshit or I don't know if I can curse, sorry, being able
to wade through some of these like fit influencers that are
kind of that one example of, oh,some people are charging $10,000
for five sessions. If I charge $1000, who cares?
And it's like, all right, being as a having to be like a smart
(10:37):
consumer, understanding what value you're getting out of it.
What are they? Have they, have you worked with
them before? After 5 sessions, have you
noticed any differences? Have you done any like stuff
like that? Yeah.
Caroline I, I actually just finished, so I, I, I do business
consulting for fitness businesses and Wellness
businesses. And I just finished a contract
(10:58):
with a business that was actually very heavily Dr. driven
to where they were trying to figure out a way to be able to
get more people in there. It's a physical space.
They've got locations, physical locations, but they're, what
they're doing is they're gettingdoctor referrals to get these
doctors to put to, to point people to a fitness center.
(11:18):
And so the fitness centers that they have, The thing is, it's a
very different product to where they're looking at biomarkers,
they're looking at the nutritionactivity.
They're, I mean, they're, they're doing a lot of
scientific backed programming for their clients.
Naturally, the program is quite expensive.
And. So what I ended up consulting
(11:40):
them to do, to your point, Caroline was on the front end of
the programming to allow a longer, actually quite generous
front end offering to where whensomeone comes in the door, they
give them a pretty extensive breakdown of everything,
programming in person sessions at a very, very low cost.
(12:02):
And the idea behind it is not necessarily to devalue the
programming, but to prove that what it's worth is what they're
charging. And so that's also something
that we, we haven't discussed yet is to, to your point, I've
got to be able to have a processor a funnel that allows people
to see what I'm worth, to see myvalue and allows me to be able
to prove myself to you, to make sure that I'm not just trying to
(12:25):
get you to throw $10,000 at me for no reason.
I'm going to prove to you that I'm worth it.
And I'm trust me, you're going to see the value and you're
going to see the results. Yeah.
That's where I find that things have changed.
Like I've been in the industry for over 20 years now and back
in the day, you had to have people see what you were doing
both with your clients and with yourself in the gym for them to
(12:46):
see what you were worth. They needed to actually have
that eyes on, whereas the young traders today have a greater
challenge in what you mentioned.Carolyn, real quick, you touched
on influencer, right and the Internet and how much all of
that has changed things with people seeing us all these
things and say, well, this person here is charging this
much and this much and you know,shouldn't I be charging that or
(13:07):
even clients coming and saying, Oh well, I got this program back
in the day. It used to be I got this
programs from bodybuilding.com or from Muscle and Fitness
magazine and we would talent herthat with information on where
there is something intended for them, right?
Whereas now you've got all theseinfluencers talking about things
online and people see that immediate and they copied that
real time, right? And so that's more of a
(13:29):
challenge I find for trainers coming in, even older trainers
who are still in the industry battling that and being able to
still maintain their own value without people actually looking
at what's being done with their clients.
For me, my sales for new clientsalways came off of the time I
spent with my current clients. I was saying, I saw you doing
(13:52):
this with so and so why? And then giving you the chance
to be able to explain and walk through all of those things.
Like you said, the time that we spend outside of that hour
researching, I, I specialized ininjured rehab and cancer
patients. It's a lot of time spent outside
of the gym, outside of that hourresearching, learning, calling,
(14:14):
you know, stuff that people don't take into account.
So could I charge more? Better believe it, some home
bills got to be paid, right? This is, this is part of that
whole process is understanding where that time gets factored in
and how much it costs. And like you said, that
teaching, teaching these trainers today how to
(14:34):
understand, to build that value into themselves, how to be able
to charge that and then teachingthem how to have that confidence
when going to the ask, right? The ask is always the tough
thing when you get to that pointin sales, in any kind of sale,
you know, either you're selling a car, selling a computer, or
selling a year's worth of training, understanding how to,
(14:54):
say, make that leap into the asswith confidence that you are
actually worth what you are telling them, right?
Totally. Continuing that education
spectrum that constantly rotatesaround, we educate ourselves
more in order to be able to charge more, but we also need to
include the education on how to approach it and how to calculate
(15:16):
and be able to, how to be able to relay that back out to our
clients, why we're worth that much.
Totally. Exactly.
Yeah, that's great. Doug, I, I had a conversation
with Carrie Saitowitz. She's the the chief marketing
and creative officer for New York sports clubs a few days
ago. And she mentioned something that
I thought was really good to, tothe point that you made about,
(15:39):
you know, competition of, of where people are getting
information, you know, oh gosh, man, you, you brought me back to
my college days like bodybuilding.com and buy an
expired protein powder because that's all I could afford.
But what, what, what Kerry mentioned, what Kerry mentioned
in our chat was the fact that what's to stop someone from
simply going to ChatGPT and saying, here's my weight, here's
(16:01):
my goal, here's my timeline, here's my nutrition.
You know, here's what I typically do.
Here's when I drop my kids off, give me a tailored program to
help me lose 20 lbs. There's nothing stopping them
from doing that. So we're not only competing with
other trainers anymore, we're also competing literally with AI
in figuring out how to be able to help people see results.
And so I think that goes back, Doug, to your point that you
(16:23):
were making about the training that people are getting or
trainers are getting on how to be able to present the value of
themselves. We also can't let people get
caught up in the hourly rate. That's typically what we do.
That's been the history of the industry is what's your rate per
hour? What's your rate per hour?
Can you give me cheaper? Can you give me cheaper?
We run promotions and we give you 5 sessions free or I'll
just, it's the end of the month.I got to do whatever it tastes
(16:44):
to get the sale. So I'll give you 10 sessions
free and we end up just devaluing ourselves.
And so nowadays there's so many different options available.
I can do in studio and virtual PTI can do all inclusive kits to
where you have access to my blogand my tools and whatever I can
do hybrid packages, I can. I can use AI to help me build
(17:07):
out programming for you as a trainer.
I can either see it as competition or I can see it as
tools. And so that's where I think the
pricing, I would encourage anyone listening to this episode
also reevaluate and audit your current structure and think
outside the box. Are there ways to make this
worth more or make your time worth more by not letting your
(17:30):
clients get caught up in what you're charging them per hour?
Because to Caroline's point, if I have to work it backwards for
everybody just to every time I get a price objection, that's
exhausting. So do I have different options
available on how I charge or what that even looks like or
what sort of services I'm offering you where I can build
resources to help me as opposed to my time being a trade off for
(17:51):
dollars every time? I also think it's interesting
kind of the understanding of like what a trainer personal
session or personal training session is worth.
I think, and I'm curious what everyone else thinks on this,
how the equinoxes of the world or even like any kind of gym of
the world has like shaped what that cost is.
(18:16):
And so kind of what I mean by that is like if when I was at
when I was working as a personaltrainer at a gym, a session was
for them was worth like $210.00 per session and I would make or
65 or $70.00 of that $210.00. So I'm like, OK, this person is
willing to pay $210.00, but I amonly making $70, which is crazy.
(18:42):
But I do think that. And then along with that, I
think a lot of trainers that go through that silo, then after
like a year or two, when they find their client base, they're
like, hey, I'm taking this private.
I'm going to, this is going to be my, you're going to be paying
the same thing. But now it's all coming to my
pocket. So I'm curious as like
everyone's been in industry for a while, like what your thoughts
(19:04):
are on how gyms and studios haveshaped how much we pay trainers
and fitness professionals for the good or the bad of it.
Yeah, I think. Oh, sorry.
Go ahead, Julie. I was just going to say
something quick, but I feel likewith like the Equinoxes and the
gyms, they're selling a brand. It's like clothing.
(19:24):
It's the same piece of clothing and like you're getting the same
exact item and quality. But because there's a brand
slapped on it, consumers will pay more.
But then if you take that same client out of the gym context
and you now go independent, theymight not be willing to pay the
same amount because for whateverreason, like psychologically it
doesn't feel as valuable. So I think that's, I mean,
that's just how it's been for solong, but I think it does a huge
(19:46):
disservice to those independent trainers that have like all this
expertise and they're worth so much, but because they don't
have a brand associated with them and it's kind of gets into
the whole like social media influencer thing again, it's
tough for them to charge what they're worth because there's
that mental barrier. Yeah, I think, you know, I as a
(20:07):
consultant, I've seen a lot of situations because I think we
have to think about it from bothends of the spectrum.
I think as a coach, do do you have a baseline as to where the
other gyms are charging and you have to start somewhere.
So maybe you do start at a lowerpercentage or a lower dollar
amount to get your feet underneath.
You get the experience that we discussed earlier in the call
(20:28):
and get to a point where you cancharge more down the road.
Maybe that's what it is. But also from an employer
standpoint, you know, I have hadcountless conversations with
trainers that said they want to go try it on their own.
Like, yeah, I think I'm done. I just, I know how to do this.
I'm I've, I've got this on my own and there's things that they
just don't think about, like thefact that, oh, by the way, my
(20:49):
friend Iris spelled IRS is goingto come after you at the end of
the year to make sure that you pay taxes on everything that
you've made. They're going to Caroline just
got the joke. I was.
Like. Like who's Iris?
They don't think about, they don't think about taxes.
They don't think about the fact that if somebody comes after
you, they're not going after Equinox, they're going after
(21:09):
you. So, yeah, because because of the
liability insurance that you don't have to carry, that the
gym usually carries. Oh, where are you going to find
all your equipment, the $3,000,000 worth of equipment
that Equinox has that you don't,that maybe you can train
somebody at a personal gym or whatever the case.
I mean, there's just all these variables that people don't
think about. And and also by the way, the
(21:31):
fact that there's 11,000 people inside of Equinox that are ready
for you to be able to present to, whereas when you go out on
your own, you got to go find them.
I mean, it's hard, Marketing is hard.
And so all of these aspects of agym are why you pay the gym 40%
of what you're making because you didn't have to do any of
that. They did it for you.
(21:51):
So I do think seeing both sides of the equation is important
because absolutely, you know, asa business owner myself, I get
it. I understand that there's value
and I think I can do this on my own.
And you know, yeah, I had to fall on my face a few times and
figure it out over my years, butI but I did.
Whereas a lot of people just don't and they end up going back
to the industry because it's safe.
They don't have to think about insurance, they don't have to
(22:12):
think about taxes. They can BW2.
There's, there's, there's a lot of variables to consider,
whether you're thinking about going out on your own again for
our listeners, or if maybe the Safeway is the way for you
because you have a path in the management or you have a path to
be able to get a, a high salary to run the place one day or
whatever the case may be. So it's it's different for every
person, is what I'm trying to say.
Very. Cool.
(22:35):
Yeah, definitely for every person.
Sorry, go ahead there. Yeah.
No, I was going to say, Ben, I really resonate with that.
I mean, I, as someone who was run clubs before and then have
my own businesses, you know, it's difficult to start on your
own. And what I'm seeing is a lot of
(22:55):
newer trainers, they want to start on that direction first.
They want to become entrepreneurs.
They see it all the time. There's social media and
different things. They see the glitz and glamour
of it, but don't understand thatit's, it's an incredibly hard
venture to go out on your own and start sourcing things.
Whereas it's kind of like, I'm going to make this comparison.
(23:16):
When you're in college, if you went to college, whatever,
meeting friends is pretty easy because they're relationships of
convenience, because you're in aplace where a lot of people are
out at the same time that are doing what you're doing.
And as soon as you're not in college, you get out of the
relationships of convenience. It's basic.
Like you become an entrepreneur.It's harder to make friends
because it's not, you don't havethat population any more people,
(23:38):
just everyone doing the same thing, running around on campus,
going to class, all those different things, such as much,
much more difficult. And I think the pricing aspect
of pricing when you're on your own has to incorporate all the
different things that you never even thought about doing when
you were working for a club, which which which is a really
(23:59):
big aspect. And like Ben said with talking
about the IRS, understanding, you know, protecting yourself
through LLC's, partnerships, things of that nature, liability
insurance, all this stuff was taken care of for you before.
That's as Doug mentioned before,there's a lot of time now you're
having to spend on other things,which increases and in many ways
(24:22):
the value of what you're doing because you're, you're literally
the number one employee. You, you're, you're, you, you
are doing everything yourself. That comes with a different
price tag and a different effortlevel for that as well.
Yeah, that's a great point. And I also, I do kind of want to
go back to the Chad GBT thing and I think it's a very, there's
(24:47):
a lot of freemium options like oh, here here's my easy like 5
day dumbbell workout. You can get it for free, blah,
blah. Like there's so many fitness can
be very accessible. But I will say, and I it's I
didn't expect the conversation to go this way because we're all
kind of agreeing that you shouldbe paid what you're worth, which
(25:09):
I didn't think we would disagreeon.
I'm just saying I thought maybe we'd be like, Oh my God, people
are paying way too much for fitness.
But where was I going? Oh yes, those that do the
ChatGPT route injuries or it's not like the data that ChatGPT
is pulling from is pulling from data that might not relate to
(25:30):
you as at all. Like if we even break down like
what you're saying with hormones, like we're still
studying women. We I don't, I shouldn't say
we're still studying. We're just starting to study
women on how like fitness is like a little bit different for
them. So what ChatGPT is pulling for
you, for you is actually not at all really meant for you.
(25:50):
So unfortunately, AI cannot actually, I should say,
fortunately, AI cannot create any information on its own.
It's pulling from data that already exists.
So what you're getting is whatever is out there, it's just
being curated a bit faster. But yeah, I, I always noticed
some people that start the free route will always make their way
(26:12):
to paying a bit more because they realize it's not working.
Yeah, I think there's a balance in like proving to those types
of clients or those types of people like what value you're
getting from a human training. You like you have all this
expertise, you have all these previous clients and case
studies of people that you've helped like transform their
lives. I think there's definitely an
element of of showing that valueto them when you're kind of
(26:35):
selling them. But I will also say there are
definitely people that they werenever going to be your customer.
Like maybe they expressed interest, but you will never
sell them. And I think it's important to
also like, just be ready, like be able to say no to them
because they're never going to pay you what you're worth.
And like, instead of trying to kind of barter, just coming to
that realization and yeah, and saying no and like just trying
(26:58):
to focus on the people that willeventually convert.
That's such a good point. I had a client that was like
sold on, oh, the keto diet and Idid not, I have never trained
anyone on a keto diet. I don't have background or
understanding of keto. And I was like, I will not do
that with you if you want to train with me.
She was just like, I really, really, really want you to add
(27:19):
in keto stuff. And I was like, I can't, I'm not
going to do that. But she still paid me and wanted
me to be her trainer. But every single I started
getting anxious because I was like, I feel like I'm not, I'm
not doing what she's paying for.Even though I said straight up I
was like, I will not go into theketo.
And at the end of each like month when we'd like catch up or
(27:40):
I think it was every week actually.
So it's pretty, pretty stressfulmonth.
She would like kind of bring up that she really wished she was
doing keto. And my lesson from that was
exactly that. Don't take a client that is not
your fit. Like it's as much as like the
client finding you as you finding a client as well.
And if it's going to be someone that you're like pulling your
hair out over because they want something that you are just not
(28:03):
providing, cut, cut your losses.Well put, well put.
I definitely have to agree with that.
I've seen a lot of that over theyears through myself and with
other screeners. And it it lends itself to, there
was an experience I had with theyoung Screener that was
shadowing with my clients. And we would always kind of do a
(28:23):
little debrief after each clientand goes through and, you know,
answer his questions and find out what it was that interested
him the most. And it often came back to
conversations around pricing as with my clients, they would
bring those up too. And I always believed in
transparency with my clients. I was spoke hopefully about what
it was I got versus the company or you know, where the value
was. And this one young Screener
(28:45):
asked me one question that for abrief moment it kind of signing
me against some. But it goes to you and your
integrity, Carolyn, what you were saying about that to
maintaining that integrity, which is hard for new trainers
when they start, they just want to take clients on.
And it takes and takes time and maturity and wisdom to be able
to stop and say, no, I don't do that.
But maybe we can find somebody better for you.
(29:06):
This trainer stopped on our debrief and he looked at me and
he said, OK, we talked about allthese things and this, this,
this coughed this. He said, what volume do you put
on care and integrity? I have no idea what to sell.
I'll be completely honest. But I think that's something
that has to be in there too, is if you genuinely care and you
want to maintain your integrity,you have to think about what the
(29:28):
value is for that. Are you willing to let go of
those clients who maybe have a rough month?
Or are you going to kind of let your integrity go a little bit
and say, OK, I'll do this. And that's another thing that
comes into that pricing and thatconversation with clients,
right? Yeah, yeah, Doug, I, I agree.
I think, you know, for, for newer trainers that are maybe
(29:50):
listening to this episode, I will say that, you know, I kind
of fell into my niche when I first started personal training.
I was actually working in physical therapy at a hospital,
got to see a lot of inpatient and outpatient clients, cardiac
clients, pulmonary client, like I just, I saw a lot of stuff
because I was working in a hospital.
(30:10):
And so whenever I started personal training, I was taking
on really any and every client and anyone that had a disease or
an issue that I hadn't heard of,I just studied my butt off to
make sure that I knew what to dowith that person, you know?
And so I do think that there's abalance there.
And at first, I mean outside of safety precautions, of course,
(30:30):
you know, if there's someone that has a something that maybe
required certification for or something in that regard,
absolutely safety first. But whenever there's clients
that maybe you're unfamiliar with their situation, if you're
new, you better figure it out and spend the hours to learn
because you need to pay your bills.
And So what I ended up doing is I figured out that my niche was
(30:51):
all the clients that every othertrainer was scared to deal with.
All the ones that had all of these heart issues and medical
issues that they just weren't sure what to do.
I'm like, okay, I figured out myniche and I ended up doing
really well with that until I ended up getting into
management. And so for our listeners, I
would say if you if, if you're new to this, just study your
butt off and figure out how to be able to help as many people
(31:13):
as you can so you can find your niche.
Because I know there's a lot of trainers out there that haven't
really figured out what they love or what they're really good
at yet. So they're still, you know, 20
years into their career and justkind of seeing whoever will have
will happen to write them a check because they're still just
trying to make ends meet. When in reality, the more niche
you are, the better you're goingto be able to speak to that
(31:35):
specific group of people and themore they're going to pay you
because you specialize in what they're dealing with.
I mean, think about it, if I've,if I've got a specific type of
vehicle and I do a Google searchfor mechanics, I'm going to get
a huge list of mechanics. But if I type in this is the
type of car and this is the issue that I have and a mechanic
pops up that says that's what I do, you better believe I'll pay
twice as much for the specialist.
(31:56):
So training is no different. And that is one of the areas
where I think we don't really talk about marketing ourselves
much in the fitness industry, atleast in this way to where we
can help people understand how to be able to figure out what
they like doing and how they cancharge as much as they walk for
it because it's what they specialize in.
Yeah. And also like when you take on
all those clients, who are the ones that are staying and why?
(32:19):
And so when I first started training, I was doing in person
and online. And the main reason that people
would stay with me is because I would find I have the background
in engineering and that's kind of how I approach fitness and
anatomy, just kind of like a little puzzle.
And I would see like their kneescaving in this way.
(32:39):
And then I'd ask them, oh, do you have like hip issues or oh,
does your, do your feet hurt when you run?
And they're like, what the heck?Yeah, they do.
And so I like would be very specific on like aches and pains
that, like won't go away. And so that's how I started,
like finding my niche. And people would pay me way more
because I like just focused on those little tiny details and I
made their movement less painful.
(33:02):
And a lot of people ended up coming to me after injuries or
if they had a chronic knee pain or chronic back pain or anything
like that. That was when I started like
when I found my niche, I should say found me.
And maybe that also is like helpful in terms of pricing in
the beginning. Take take on clients, try to
(33:23):
stay away from people that are mean and, but and then once you
find your niche, like really lean into it and price yourself.
You're worth that niche. I'm like, I've helped 20 or over
like 3550 people start with me and end pain free.
Like if that's your niche chargefor that.
(33:45):
I also remember my mom is a yogateacher and yoga is very like no
ego. We're here to help everyone.
And that's like the ethos of yoga and it's wonderful, but you
also do need to survive and pay yourself and all that stuff.
And it was really hard for my mom to charge what she was worth
because of that whole ethos of yoga.
(34:07):
And she wanted to be helpful foreveryone.
And she was like running around doing all these privates.
Some are paying her one cost, some are paying her another.
And I like I obviously didn't say this, I was like 12 years
old, but someone that was like her mentor said like, no, you
can't one why are you allowing someone to pay you charging
someone else more? That is like, what?
(34:29):
Why do you feel more worth worthit for this person and less for
that? And like really own what your
price is Because you have to understand like unfortunately
you can't help everyone. And maybe you can have like some
one off offerings for people that are really struggling and
just want a little bit of help but can't afford it.
Yeah, that's. Good, really.
(34:49):
Actually, Ben, I want to double down.
On what you're talking about niching down for that in regards
to pricing, I just think it's really important to and it's
true a lot of trainers don't find that.
They don't find that ever. They're just basically fly by
night stuff. I can tell you for me, I know
that pretty immediately, I have my doctorate.
You clearly don't need to have your doctorate to be a trainer,
(35:11):
work in the business. But one of the things I realized
is I love relationship building.And and this also goes back to
AI too, is that I knew that focusing my training business as
a way to help people have betterrelationships with people in
their lives and with themselves was going to be very beneficial
is to become more human. And I actually think because of
(35:33):
AI and different systems, that human connectivity will be the
premium price point for the future moving on, because
becoming more human will become less common in what we're doing.
And I think a lot of newer trainers, they don't understand
that because they're their focusis living in a very digital
world as we continue to move forward in that.
(35:56):
But that human connectivity and finding your niche, whatever
that is, will become a premium product for you, whatever that
niche is. But I find that becoming more
human actually makes you more valuable in our space.
And there's a reason why I always tell people I love what I
do because I get to see the rawest version of people on a
(36:17):
regular basis. I see them when they're not in
their business suit or they're out there in a meeting.
I see them when they just got out of bed and they're just kind
of like wearing whatever they'rethinking.
And they're just like telling meall the real stuff.
The joy, the pain, the hurt, thethe triumphs, the graduations,
all of that stuff. You're actually providing maybe
(36:38):
one of the greatest things a human can get, which is time
with another person uninterrupted.
And most of my clients tell me my time with you is my alone
time. I'm away from my kids, I'm away
from my spouse. I'm not at work.
I get to just focus on me. You know how much money that's
worth today? You're a crazy amount of money
today. So don't undersell yourself
(36:59):
Nisha into. It's so important.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have to absolutely have
to agree. Like I got thrust into, into a
rehab simply by taking over clients who have been injured by
other trainers who had left the gym, You know, the management
and everything was just like, oh, we need somebody who's
(37:20):
really good. And my clients, similar to what
you were saying, Carolyn, about the, your, your engineering kind
of perspective of looking at people.
My clients called it Dougie's X-ray digit.
The way that I looked at them, the way that I watched them and
the way I watched them move and questions I would ask in order
to try and break down what was happening, right?
And that was my process for the assessment.
(37:40):
It was my system. And I fell into that niches and
that really saved my life. And it helped me be able to go
from being one of those traders who was just trying to, you
know, pick up everybody to be able to sit there and say, no,
no, you're really not somebody that I, I want to work with or
that really needs what my skillsare.
(38:01):
But I do have a waiting list of people who are desperate for
somebody who can help me, you know, had help with that repair,
whatever their repair was. So, yeah, definitely the niche
is the weighted goals. And a lot of, I found a lot of
big box stamps here in Canada trying to push you out of the
niche. They like to have the people who
are kind of everything, Oh, I doanything that's great, that's
(38:23):
great. But I found the people who did
have a niche are the ones who built.
And this goes back to you Darianand filled the best
relationships, the strongest relationships with their
clients. I had the privilege of training
somebody. We took a little break toward
the end of her pregnancy. 18 years later, I got to train her
son. So like that kind of longevity.
(38:45):
That's the relationship, right. That's the time that you can't
necessarily put a price on. That's 20 years of connectivity
with somebody and with people and to, you know, to have that
requires the right type of energy and the right type of
attitude and the right self esteem is sense of self value.
So to be able to do that on thatniche is really, I would agree
(39:08):
with you that that's what will make you the most successful,
being able to brand your niche in the right ways.
Yeah. Yeah.
I would add to that Doug, you know.
I was doing a sales training actually for a franchise network
last week, and we were talking about relationships when it came
to the sales process, but we were taking it a different route
(39:28):
than just simply discovery questions.
Yes, absolutely. You need to figure out why
someone is there. But what we have to realize is
most people, you know, Caroline,you were talking about ChatGPT
earlier. Why does somebody use ChatGPT
instead of just investing in a trainer to begin with?
Well, fear because they don't have a good relationship with
(39:50):
the gym because they've never been able to get the results
themselves, because they've had a bad experience in the past.
It's the relationship. And So what we're trying to do
as fitness professionals is we're trying to help change the
relationship that someone has with their body.
We're trying to change the relationship that they have with
allowing another human being to be a part of their journey.
And so when you're open to that and you help them understand
(40:12):
that that's where you sell high ticket packages because you're
you're opening a relationship tohelp them have a better
relationship. With themselves and with fitness
in general. And when they see that as
opposed to what are you chargingme per hour?
How many sessions do I get? Are you going to give me a free
session? Can you give me a discount?
When you take the focus off of the cost and into what's going
(40:32):
to change into the future, that's where you're able to help
people see your value. Because I mean, what it what
would it be worth for you to actually enjoy going to the gym
five years from now? That's a different question then
what are your goals? How many sessions do you how
many sessions do you want? I mean, like, I got a promo like
it, it just changes the conversation.
(40:52):
It just changes the conversationtotally.
And it's not what they tip. I mean, it's not what they
expect when they walk in the door.
And so when you're speaking the language of what's that pain
point and how can I help you with that?
I mean, you're you're opening upissues that they didn't realize
they had. Most people don't realize they
have a bad relationship with thegym until we open up that can of
worms and get them to go. Oh, my gosh, yeah, you're right.
(41:13):
OK, maybe I do need this help. Yeah, maybe.
I have been looking up workouts on ChatGPT because I was afraid
I was going to throw money at this and get nothing out of it
again. That's such a good point.
Yeah, you're really selling a journey and like, I don't even
want to say outcome because it'slike the journey that never
ends. It's an ongoing thing.
You're not selling a session, you're not selling an hour in
the gym. It's really like this holistic
(41:34):
journey and lifestyle change. And I think like that's that's
kind of the thing that has to come through to people when
you're when you're selling your services.
It's great. Yeah, that's such a good point.
And. Also like understanding yourself
that when you're with whomever, you're going to potentially have
a client, whoever that client is, like you also have to buy
(41:56):
into their journey as well. And like that again, is why you
should be worth it. It's like I'm in this with you,
like we're going to do this together and that's what you're
selling. I love that.
That's so nice. Well, I think part of it too is.
Understanding in perhaps simple terms what your product really
is. This was a conversation I used
(42:18):
to have a lot, and I actually was in a little mini conference
with one company I was with and we brought in Bobby Cappuccio to
speak to us. And that was absolutely amazing
to meet somebody I'd read so much of and I'd listen to his
his videos and stuff like that. But to have him kind of
(42:38):
literally peeled me apart as he asked all of us to write down
what our mission was and what our our product was.
And I had this wonderful like huge paragraph and everything.
And he was like, OK, Doug, you. And he literally peeled it apart
question by question by questionuntil we discovered that my
product was a smile on my client's face as they come back.
(43:01):
Not smile on the way out, not sweat, not the machines, not,
you know, all the training, all the, it was the smile and the
joy and the love that that client had as they will reach
burning as they were coming backfor more, right?
You make them sweat, you make them hurt.
You get right all those things. But it's all the other things
that care, the kindness, the integrity that brings them back.
(43:25):
That's where your products. For me, that was from what my
product was in simple terms withthe smile on their face.
And I think for all trainers, it's the able to identify what
their product is, then they can identify what their mission
statement truly is. Very simply, very small, not big
fancy paragraphs. I love that me.
(43:45):
Too. It's a lot it almost.
Is like man. I always do say this.
Oh, go for it. No, no, please go ahead.
I want to. Respect everyone's time here,
but Caroline, you are ready to go for this one.
I mean, you like had I feel likeyou have notes you have like
right, you wrote down notes and everything in there.
You're ready to go. I do I.
(44:06):
Do I do have notes? But I was going to say the IT
just is so similar. And I've said this since Julie
and I started our company together, but being a personal
trainer or like a freelance fitness professional is exactly
like starting your own startup. The whole, every single lesson
(44:27):
that you learn within it is exactly the same niche, mission,
division or product offering. Yeah, Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, most definitely man you. Guys are amazing.
This was even more robust than Ithought it would be.
But you know, I'd love doing this trainer talk series because
it's it's important to have these conversations between with
(44:49):
each other and then to get it out there.
And they probably think I'm excited about most is these now
go into the curriculum of the colleges that I teach.
So a lot of students listen to this now that are going to
become trainers and fitness professionals.
So I'm grateful for each of you for contributing to the
education of students who will be one day colleagues of ours
(45:13):
and contributing to our industry.
And obviously this goes out to our current colleagues and
different channels all, all out there on the Internet.
And hopefully we have more of these discussions in person as
well too. So I just want to thank each of
you for being a part of this andI'm, I'm very grateful for your
time. Thank you so much so.
(45:36):
Nice chatting. With all of you.
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