January 27, 2023 • 21 mins
If you need help with intimacy, I have hired a new sexologist that can work in all states and internationally: https://www.bestlifebehavioralhealth.com/heather-ray-certified-sexologist
Subscribe if you love the DPM show! https://anchor.fm/drpsychmomshow/subscribe and you'll get all my awesome bonus episodes; the most recent one discusses how you can and should actually have sex when you're not already feeling close!
For my secret Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/becomesupporter/DrPsychMom/
For coaching from DPM, visit https://www.drpsychmom.com/coaching/
For therapy, contact us at www.bestlifebehavioralhealth.com
Follow me on TikTok! https://www.tiktok.com/@therealdrpsychmom and YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqLm4xRaUeroBodFc-h4XDQ
A Facebook group member asked me my thoughts on a podcast about Christian married sex called Bare Marriage. I listened to Episode 148: Is Sex A Yes Space For Men and I was preparing to be pleasantly surprised. Until they said sex should NOT be a yes space for men! Because "it already is"! What men are these? I haven't met men that consider married sex a sexual yes space or even a sexual maybe space. If there are men who think they deserve a constantly supply of hot sex against the woman's will, they are certainly a bunch of assholes, but this doesn't remotely resemble the actuality of the dynamics I work with in my practice (including with Christian couples).
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hi everybody, and welcome to thedr.
Psych mom show. So today, I am talking about
another podcast because somebodyreferred it to me and a Facebook
group member. So if you join the Facebook
group, you get a lot more of my attention.
And I sometimes listen to stuff that you recommend, although I
(00:25):
really find it hard to listen topodcasts.
You guys really have my deep respect for listening to this
one because I can't get through these goddamn things at all.
So before I get though to this one, which is about sexual, yes,
spaces or whatever you should definitely subscribe the most.
Recent one was the benefits of having sex when you're not
(00:47):
already feeling close and if youthink that's a crazy idea than
it is the podcast for you, okay?So there's this podcast called
bear marriage, which is Christian women.
I am obviously not a Christian podcaster therapist Thing.
I don't know much about these women.
(01:08):
I know that it's a Christian podcast, but it's not supposed
supposed to counter these. An Evangelical teachings that
are that men are superior to women.
So, all right, fine, I agree. Men are not Superior to women
and certainly men should not force women into any sort of
subjugation, whether that's sexual or otherwise, the problem
(01:31):
comes when some of these These ideas so you're going in
opposition to something bad finebut then you can go sweetie.
You could swing so far on the other end that that's not so
good either, you know, and it gets kind of extreme on the end
of that men are to have basically no say in the sex life
(01:52):
kind of. And so that's not good either.
So I was trying to find one thatI would agree with and that I
would understand because some ofit was very the titles.
I didn't even understand where References Etc.
One of them was about sexual. Yes, spaces.
So like should set like his sex is sexual sexual.
(02:12):
Yes, no is sex. I yes.
Space for men and then the womanmakes an illusion about the
Montessori school and kids should have a place where they
don't get told no and so they can go around and play with
whatever they want and touch whatever they want.
And and then I thought it was going to go to and this is what
(02:33):
sex should be like you know. No, it went to this is what men
think of sex as and this is whatthese male authors that are
writing these Christian marriage, books say that sex
should be for men and it should not in fact be like that at all.
(02:53):
And and so then she makes this analogy where I mean this this
is something where she said thatthere was this this guy you
know, Smell Christian author, whose writing about how women
should be good, sexual partners to men.
And he says that an erotic thingto do in a hand job is to use
your makeup brush to brush his balls, right?
(03:16):
And so, then she and the other woman get very upset about this,
you know? And they do have somewhat of
their joking a little bit. But mostly they're very upset
because it's expensive, your makeup brush.
It's your thing and and you shouldn't have to use it if you
don't. Want to on his stuff and you
(03:36):
could get a staph infection in your eye and you shouldn't touch
his dirty, genitals with your makeup brush and, and they
weren't kidding about that part.They were, they were upset that,
that even the woman's things should be used for the man
because his pleasure somehow comes.
First in all these domains and sex is this?
(03:59):
Yes, space where she can't say no to him and it really It went
very far afield from anything I have ever seen.
Now if any of you guys that are listening are Evangelical
Christians, where you believe that, the man should always get
exactly what he wants in bed. 100%, doesn't matter what's
(04:21):
happening and she can never say no and you are in charge and
this is your dominion. And it's a yes, space.
I have never met a man like that.
I mean, it is certainly possible.
Boil that the men that are in these situations with these sex
lives where it is all. Yes, space.
Well certainly they fucking don't need any therapy, I guess
(04:43):
because they are they are very happy man but I don't see why
it's like that either. It is, of course, certainly,
very possible that I am so secular based on how much I
curse, you know, alone, they wouldn't want to come in that.
I have never encountered such a person.
You know, this seems knocked Real because I do work with a
(05:06):
lot of Christian couples that infact are coming in because they
are so sexually. Repressed in the bedroom, the
wife says, no to everything, usually is why they're coming in
and some people have rejected, then some of the religion, but
some are still Christian and they're coming in and they're
still talking to me. But it is, of course, possible,
(05:27):
that and probable that these people are the ones who are less
adherent to Whatever Christian principles and mores.
They are just by definition. They're more open minded
definitionally because they're coming into me but I'll tell you
something if this is going more mainstream you know as is
evidenced by its appearance in my Facebook group when I'm
(05:51):
obviously a secular therapist and everybody knows that who
signs up and comes into my stuff, my group and whatever
this is not how a marriage goes for 99.
Bead percent of married men, certainly not ones that are
anything. But at the real fringes
(06:12):
religiously, the idea of sex being a yes space for men is
like Preposterous. I mean the idea that a woman
would do anything. She doesn't want to do in bed
for the majority of people that I interact with is just a
Preposterous thought, you know? And so So, yes, if they're if it
(06:36):
is incredibly culturally different, and it seems like it
really is. And there are these Evangelical
men that are forcing their wivesinto sex, terrible, you know,
that's real bad, you know, get out of that.
However, you can and if those women have no idea that they can
possibly have any rights in the bedroom, they certainly haven't
(06:58):
been exposed to my stuff, hope they do get exposed to myself
and to this bear marriage thing.This so Spear marriage thing,
seems to be a rescue system for very, very, you know, extreme
cases where women believe that they have to be dominated by
their husband in the bedroom to please.
God. I don't see any of those people.
(07:20):
In fact, what I see when people recount these things to me are
that they were always told that sex was bad and then never much
told anything after that, you know, and so kind of sex was
bad. Sex was bad, sex was bad, then
they got married. Married.
They knew they were supposed to have sex but one or both of them
were incredibly repressed and itwas very hard to do and the
(07:43):
woman says no to everything. So the women that kid don't feel
like they can say no, they may be an abusive relationships.
They may be at the very extremesof these cultures but they are
nowhere near the mainstream of what I see.
Which is that women constantly say no.
So we don't want to swing of course, if this stuff is now
(08:04):
made me. Stream.
What I fear is that then the idea of sex being a yes space
for men and women which I very much think it should be in a
healthy marriage is now not there and it's thought of as bad
sex should be a yes space for both men and women.
I talk about this all the time, you know, coming from a place of
yes instead of no saying yes to things being open-minded, I talk
(08:27):
all the time around open-minded,which is the same thing as a yes
space. You know and I say this about
all aspects of the The marriage and I have a post titled, if you
want your wife to be more open-minded in the bedroom, try
being more open-minded outside of the bedroom.
But like, a lot of this stuff isit's about like women where the
men it's paint. It's painting men, very bad.
(08:50):
And it sounds like they've had some very bad experiences with,
with some men in this extreme version of the religion where
the men think that they have to be super dominant.
I would see any of these men, you know?
I mean there's That these men don't care if the women orgasm,
I've not seen a man who doesn't care if the woman orgasm, they
are like riding their whole selfesteem on.
(09:12):
Whether the woman orgasm has, you know, like being a guy who
can get the woman off is considered like the number one
thing. I posted something on Facebook
about how you could switch the order of operations.
So that the man gets off first sometimes because that could
arouse the woman. And like all of these guys came
out of the woodwork to say, I was wrong, no shock, you know,
everybody has an opinion but none of them.
(09:34):
Said, the woman shouldn't have an orgasm.
I mean, the most of them are like, oh, well, you know, that's
not how we do it. She always comes first, I always
make sure she comes first. She always comes first, you
know, real man, always make sureshe comes.
First comes, first comes first. So, I mean, even in porn porn is
terrible, right? For married sex, teaches you?
Nothing? Good.
But the reality is, even in porn.
(09:56):
The idea, is that the woman is coming.
So like, it's not like, men, don't like that.
The idea is that She's coming. Yeah, she comes within 30
seconds of penetration Max and it's bullshit, but men like
that. Yes, average healthy men want
the woman to enjoy sex. They wants, you know, they
(10:18):
certainly want to explore but they also want the woman to
enjoy herself. You know?
I mean this this this podcast was like it's it was so it
reminds me of fair play and go back and listen to my fair play
podcast, and it mentioned equal equal equal like over and over.
Over and over. But I've not seen sex lives be
equal because there's only one gate keeper.
(10:39):
So if it is extraordinarily different in this Society, okay,
you know, that I understand people would need to listen to
something that says, yes, women should be equal.
But the reality is, what I see is that women are gatekeeping
all over the damn place. They're saying no to everything
there. They certainly don't need to be
told not to use their makeup brush on his testicles if they
(11:00):
don't want to most women are like yeah.
Fuck, no, no, what? You know what?
You know what. I think it's just a makeup
brush. If you said to a guy yeah, by
different makeup brush to put iton your testicles.
Most guys would run out in 3 seconds to do that if that was
some way that they wanted to explore.
So in if this is mostly directedto extremely religious people
(11:22):
that act as people did multiple Generations ago, fine.
But if it's becoming more mainstream than it is, it is
perpetuating. This idea of men has extremely
You know, selfish and insensitive.
When the reality is I don't see most men get their desires, even
given a nod in the bedroom. It's pretty much just only what
(11:46):
the woman does. What wants to do only when she
wants to do it and anything else?
You just says no to. And that is in a good marriage
either. Not on either side.
I think sex should be a. Yes, space for men and women.
Like there's there's the idea ofsex being You know, fun and when
everything is thought of as like, it has to be like even
(12:08):
Steven, then it's not going to be fun.
It's not going to be, it's not going to be giving it's not
generous good giving and game, you know, as Dan Savage, says
GGG and they talk down about this Christian marriage author,
who I'm sure is a is terrible and whatever way I'm even like,
like it's not my domain. So I mean, if everybody thinks
(12:31):
like some big Christian male oldmarriage book, Writer is a, you
know, the big anti-feminist. I mean, it tracks that he
probably is, who knows, but the reality is that, you know, if
he's saying that she should giveher husband, a nice hand job.
Why is that bad? Like, all right.
(12:53):
So that, that's one opinion, youknow?
He's a man and maybe he's a big anti-feminist, maybe that's the
entire thing of being a Christian but not, you know, not
a full Not any kind of Christianbut this sort of Evangelical,
Christian. But either way, is it so bad
that she would give him a handjob?
I mean, I don't think it's so terrible.
(13:14):
You know. Is it so bad that she would use
a silk scarf? That's another one.
They didn't like they said, thatthey should have used a pocket
square. They said men have soft things
also. And so using the woman silk
scarf to to rub on him instead of his pocket square.
(13:34):
Like, what century are we who has a pocket square?
I don't know anybody with a pocket square.
So, I mean, it was just so, like, I don't know, like, you
know, like the Fairplay thing, like, dividing it.
So, very strictly, like, the woman stuff is her stuff and she
should never ever have anything,you know, forced into her
(13:56):
domain. She shouldn't even use a silk
scarf. If she doesn't want to, she
should find his pocket square or, and this was serious, he
should go to the Fabric store, she go to the fabric store to go
buy fabric like like they have closed around, you know, they
have like a I mean like he was you was just use true.
(14:17):
It was something really weird. You know about this idea that
like he should have to go out specifically, they gave the
examples of the dollar store in the fabric store.
She go to the dollar store to get a makeup brush and a fabric
store, to get a piece of fabric Like Liquor.
Is though, like you there's no Amazon or something like it was,
it was almost like to humiliate him.
(14:39):
You know what I mean? Like, he would have to go to the
dollar store to get like a makeup brushes.
His his sister. He's excited.
Handjob. Should only be worth a dollar?
I don't know. It's like strange so and then
they of course, said that like oral sex is more important for
women, like men should go down on women, more than women should
go down on men because frequently women need that to
(15:01):
get off but men can get off anyway.
Which is wrong. You know, I'm in a lot of men
have trouble getting off especially as they get older.
And also oral sex is not the only way.
There's also your hand too. And of course, there's many,
many things that people can do to get each other off in bed.
But the idea that like, because the man can get off other ways
(15:24):
than oral sex isn't as importantfor him, as it is for her, was
bizarre. Also, it was bizarre because
most men are dying to give theirwives oral sex and love to give
If their wives oral sex which again makes me think either
there is this crazy population out there that I've not heard
hide nor hair of and 13 years you know doing couples work
which again is possible. This is an extreme and small
(15:47):
subset of people who would neverreach out to somebody secular.
Okay. But again if it does go more
mainstream it paints men as so selfish and domineering and
patriarchal and I'm see any of this.
I see guys. That have knocked out an oral
sex in like 20 years, you know, much and and go down on the
(16:09):
woman like before every encounter because she has to
have her orgasm. So there is another way to go
about this and it is to say thatsex should be a.
Yes, space for men and women andpeople should feel, you know
free in bed. What if feel free in bed, you
(16:30):
know, really you don't want to feel so constrained.
So so if if this allows some women to realize that they have
rights also, when they don't think that they do, that's great
but I don't like the part where it says that men in general or
even Christian. Men are so selfish because I
(16:52):
don't, I don't see that, you know?
And, and I do think that it is anice thing to give your husband,
a hand job, you know? I mean, that isn't something
where and they did say that would be nice, but then It's
only nice if like we're using, like his specific pocket square
and makeup brush versus like hers.
And then it gets kind of into the weeds.
(17:13):
Like, the spirit is gone of it. You know, the generosity is
gone, I guess the generosity is gone, which makes sense.
If it is a culture where women get stepped on all the time, but
if this in any way moves away from just this tiny subset, then
it's painting men, know if no pun intended with A broad brush
(17:35):
and saying that they are very selfish when it isn't what I
see. So what I fear is that women are
going to look at husband's that aren't selfish and be like,
yeah. Now that I think about it, you
know, you are a pretty big asshole and quite honestly, that
is sometimes what I see after women take.
You know, various like women's courses and stuff like that
(17:57):
online or like courses, but led by women about how to reclaim
your libido and but you know, Basically, what they do is they
come home and they say their husband actually, you know, I
don't think that we should have any sex because I should only
have sex when I'm in the mood. And it's like, when you're going
to be in the mood, you're a responsive desire, female in
monogamy, how are you going to be in the mood?
(18:18):
I don't understand. When do you get in the mood?
You know, and it's never and so,then she assumes that because
she's ever had sex when she wasn't in the mood.
Then he's basically an asshole like all these guys.
She's being taught about. Now that are assholes and he's
just been a guy who's trying to get laid, sometimes in his
marriage. Because that's how he wants to
feel close because that is like,literally how men feel close and
(18:41):
just like how for her. It's him saying I love you or
kissing her hugging her saying she was beautiful whatever all
the shit I tell him to do to youknow.
So so my point is take this stuff and and think very
critically whenever you hear something where one gender is
bashed, think about who's sayingit.
Think about their experiences? In this case, maybe these people
(19:03):
really have these Experiences where there is tremendous.
You know, it is a tremendously unfair situation for women who
feel extremely forced into things that they don't want to
do constantly. I do not see that though.
As the norm that if it was the norm Generations ago which it
(19:23):
was, it is not, you know, the, the majority of people that I
see and that I even saw before, I had a platform.
We're Men that That were not barely ever having sex, you
know, like, that's what happens when women aren't happy in.
Marriages, they stopped having sex.
So only sociopaths are like raping their wives.
(19:45):
You know, people that are really, really fucked up.
So most people are then just nothaving sex.
So, you know, I mean, that's gotto what's happening.
But again, you know, if this is something where you feel like
you are in some kind of a marriage, I don't know how you
would be listening to me this long if you were, and still be a
fan. But if you feel that you're in a
marriage, where you, Never say no to your husband for sex.
(20:06):
You're having all kinds of like makeup brush hand jobs that are
against your will. Then this could be helpful to
you, to make you realize that you are a person to with needs.
But if you're in the more normalsituation that I see that, I
talked about where the woman says, no fairly constantly
whenever she wants to say no, then I think you're still in the
(20:26):
other category of people that need to be more generous, you
know, and think about. Hmm.
Maybe this would be nice for my partner.
Maybe I Should get outside my comfort zone as the woman
because that is that that? That is generally what I see.
So, yeah, I mean there was some there's there's definitely some
utility and thinking about this looking at things from other
(20:48):
perspectives, thinking about howthings are different for
different populations. If you though are a guy who
feels like he has not gotten a fair Shake because your wife is
listening to the more of these kinds of things, then it's worth
it to bring up, you know. You know, the reality.
Would you perceive the reality of the situation is, which is
(21:08):
that you are not having anywherenear the sex life you want?
You do not feel any power in thebedroom at all.
You try to give her an orgasm inevery encounter and you feel
very, very lonely. Once you reject, you frequently,
you know, and that is much more of the common situation that I
see. Alright, so I hope that this was
(21:29):
useful and interesting for any of you and I'll talk to you all
soon.
Hi everybody, and welcome to thedr.
Psych mom show. So today, I am talking about
another podcast because somebodyreferred it to me and a Facebook
group member. So if you join the Facebook
group, you get a lot more of my attention.
And I sometimes listen to stuff that you recommend, although I
(00:25):
really find it hard to listen topodcasts.
You guys really have my deep respect for listening to this
one because I can't get through these goddamn things at all.
So before I get though to this one, which is about sexual, yes,
spaces or whatever you should definitely subscribe the most.
Recent one was the benefits of having sex when you're not
(00:47):
already feeling close and if youthink that's a crazy idea than
it is the podcast for you, okay?So there's this podcast called
bear marriage, which is Christian women.
I am obviously not a Christian podcaster therapist Thing.
I don't know much about these women.
(01:08):
I know that it's a Christian podcast, but it's not supposed
supposed to counter these. An Evangelical teachings that
are that men are superior to women.
So, all right, fine, I agree. Men are not Superior to women
and certainly men should not force women into any sort of
subjugation, whether that's sexual or otherwise, the problem
(01:31):
comes when some of these These ideas so you're going in
opposition to something bad finebut then you can go sweetie.
You could swing so far on the other end that that's not so
good either, you know, and it gets kind of extreme on the end
of that men are to have basically no say in the sex life
(01:52):
kind of. And so that's not good either.
So I was trying to find one thatI would agree with and that I
would understand because some ofit was very the titles.
I didn't even understand where References Etc.
One of them was about sexual. Yes, spaces.
So like should set like his sex is sexual sexual.
(02:12):
Yes, no is sex. I yes.
Space for men and then the womanmakes an illusion about the
Montessori school and kids should have a place where they
don't get told no and so they can go around and play with
whatever they want and touch whatever they want.
And and then I thought it was going to go to and this is what
(02:33):
sex should be like you know. No, it went to this is what men
think of sex as and this is whatthese male authors that are
writing these Christian marriage, books say that sex
should be for men and it should not in fact be like that at all.
(02:53):
And and so then she makes this analogy where I mean this this
is something where she said thatthere was this this guy you
know, Smell Christian author, whose writing about how women
should be good, sexual partners to men.
And he says that an erotic thingto do in a hand job is to use
your makeup brush to brush his balls, right?
(03:16):
And so, then she and the other woman get very upset about this,
you know? And they do have somewhat of
their joking a little bit. But mostly they're very upset
because it's expensive, your makeup brush.
It's your thing and and you shouldn't have to use it if you
don't. Want to on his stuff and you
(03:36):
could get a staph infection in your eye and you shouldn't touch
his dirty, genitals with your makeup brush and, and they
weren't kidding about that part.They were, they were upset that,
that even the woman's things should be used for the man
because his pleasure somehow comes.
First in all these domains and sex is this?
(03:59):
Yes, space where she can't say no to him and it really It went
very far afield from anything I have ever seen.
Now if any of you guys that are listening are Evangelical
Christians, where you believe that, the man should always get
exactly what he wants in bed. 100%, doesn't matter what's
(04:21):
happening and she can never say no and you are in charge and
this is your dominion. And it's a yes, space.
I have never met a man like that.
I mean, it is certainly possible.
Boil that the men that are in these situations with these sex
lives where it is all. Yes, space.
Well certainly they fucking don't need any therapy, I guess
(04:43):
because they are they are very happy man but I don't see why
it's like that either. It is, of course, certainly,
very possible that I am so secular based on how much I
curse, you know, alone, they wouldn't want to come in that.
I have never encountered such a person.
You know, this seems knocked Real because I do work with a
(05:06):
lot of Christian couples that infact are coming in because they
are so sexually. Repressed in the bedroom, the
wife says, no to everything, usually is why they're coming in
and some people have rejected, then some of the religion, but
some are still Christian and they're coming in and they're
still talking to me. But it is, of course, possible,
(05:27):
that and probable that these people are the ones who are less
adherent to Whatever Christian principles and mores.
They are just by definition. They're more open minded
definitionally because they're coming into me but I'll tell you
something if this is going more mainstream you know as is
evidenced by its appearance in my Facebook group when I'm
(05:51):
obviously a secular therapist and everybody knows that who
signs up and comes into my stuff, my group and whatever
this is not how a marriage goes for 99.
Bead percent of married men, certainly not ones that are
anything. But at the real fringes
(06:12):
religiously, the idea of sex being a yes space for men is
like Preposterous. I mean the idea that a woman
would do anything. She doesn't want to do in bed
for the majority of people that I interact with is just a
Preposterous thought, you know? And so So, yes, if they're if it
(06:36):
is incredibly culturally different, and it seems like it
really is. And there are these Evangelical
men that are forcing their wivesinto sex, terrible, you know,
that's real bad, you know, get out of that.
However, you can and if those women have no idea that they can
possibly have any rights in the bedroom, they certainly haven't
(06:58):
been exposed to my stuff, hope they do get exposed to myself
and to this bear marriage thing.This so Spear marriage thing,
seems to be a rescue system for very, very, you know, extreme
cases where women believe that they have to be dominated by
their husband in the bedroom to please.
God. I don't see any of those people.
(07:20):
In fact, what I see when people recount these things to me are
that they were always told that sex was bad and then never much
told anything after that, you know, and so kind of sex was
bad. Sex was bad, sex was bad, then
they got married. Married.
They knew they were supposed to have sex but one or both of them
were incredibly repressed and itwas very hard to do and the
(07:43):
woman says no to everything. So the women that kid don't feel
like they can say no, they may be an abusive relationships.
They may be at the very extremesof these cultures but they are
nowhere near the mainstream of what I see.
Which is that women constantly say no.
So we don't want to swing of course, if this stuff is now
(08:04):
made me. Stream.
What I fear is that then the idea of sex being a yes space
for men and women which I very much think it should be in a
healthy marriage is now not there and it's thought of as bad
sex should be a yes space for both men and women.
I talk about this all the time, you know, coming from a place of
yes instead of no saying yes to things being open-minded, I talk
(08:27):
all the time around open-minded,which is the same thing as a yes
space. You know and I say this about
all aspects of the The marriage and I have a post titled, if you
want your wife to be more open-minded in the bedroom, try
being more open-minded outside of the bedroom.
But like, a lot of this stuff isit's about like women where the
men it's paint. It's painting men, very bad.
(08:50):
And it sounds like they've had some very bad experiences with,
with some men in this extreme version of the religion where
the men think that they have to be super dominant.
I would see any of these men, you know?
I mean there's That these men don't care if the women orgasm,
I've not seen a man who doesn't care if the woman orgasm, they
are like riding their whole selfesteem on.
(09:12):
Whether the woman orgasm has, you know, like being a guy who
can get the woman off is considered like the number one
thing. I posted something on Facebook
about how you could switch the order of operations.
So that the man gets off first sometimes because that could
arouse the woman. And like all of these guys came
out of the woodwork to say, I was wrong, no shock, you know,
everybody has an opinion but none of them.
(09:34):
Said, the woman shouldn't have an orgasm.
I mean, the most of them are like, oh, well, you know, that's
not how we do it. She always comes first, I always
make sure she comes first. She always comes first, you
know, real man, always make sureshe comes.
First comes, first comes first. So, I mean, even in porn porn is
terrible, right? For married sex, teaches you?
Nothing? Good.
But the reality is, even in porn.
(09:56):
The idea, is that the woman is coming.
So like, it's not like, men, don't like that.
The idea is that She's coming. Yeah, she comes within 30
seconds of penetration Max and it's bullshit, but men like
that. Yes, average healthy men want
the woman to enjoy sex. They wants, you know, they
(10:18):
certainly want to explore but they also want the woman to
enjoy herself. You know?
I mean this this this podcast was like it's it was so it
reminds me of fair play and go back and listen to my fair play
podcast, and it mentioned equal equal equal like over and over.
Over and over. But I've not seen sex lives be
equal because there's only one gate keeper.
(10:39):
So if it is extraordinarily different in this Society, okay,
you know, that I understand people would need to listen to
something that says, yes, women should be equal.
But the reality is, what I see is that women are gatekeeping
all over the damn place. They're saying no to everything
there. They certainly don't need to be
told not to use their makeup brush on his testicles if they
(11:00):
don't want to most women are like yeah.
Fuck, no, no, what? You know what?
You know what. I think it's just a makeup
brush. If you said to a guy yeah, by
different makeup brush to put iton your testicles.
Most guys would run out in 3 seconds to do that if that was
some way that they wanted to explore.
So in if this is mostly directedto extremely religious people
(11:22):
that act as people did multiple Generations ago, fine.
But if it's becoming more mainstream than it is, it is
perpetuating. This idea of men has extremely
You know, selfish and insensitive.
When the reality is I don't see most men get their desires, even
given a nod in the bedroom. It's pretty much just only what
(11:46):
the woman does. What wants to do only when she
wants to do it and anything else?
You just says no to. And that is in a good marriage
either. Not on either side.
I think sex should be a. Yes, space for men and women.
Like there's there's the idea ofsex being You know, fun and when
everything is thought of as like, it has to be like even
(12:08):
Steven, then it's not going to be fun.
It's not going to be, it's not going to be giving it's not
generous good giving and game, you know, as Dan Savage, says
GGG and they talk down about this Christian marriage author,
who I'm sure is a is terrible and whatever way I'm even like,
like it's not my domain. So I mean, if everybody thinks
(12:31):
like some big Christian male oldmarriage book, Writer is a, you
know, the big anti-feminist. I mean, it tracks that he
probably is, who knows, but the reality is that, you know, if
he's saying that she should giveher husband, a nice hand job.
Why is that bad? Like, all right.
(12:53):
So that, that's one opinion, youknow?
He's a man and maybe he's a big anti-feminist, maybe that's the
entire thing of being a Christian but not, you know, not
a full Not any kind of Christianbut this sort of Evangelical,
Christian. But either way, is it so bad
that she would give him a handjob?
I mean, I don't think it's so terrible.
(13:14):
You know. Is it so bad that she would use
a silk scarf? That's another one.
They didn't like they said, thatthey should have used a pocket
square. They said men have soft things
also. And so using the woman silk
scarf to to rub on him instead of his pocket square.
(13:34):
Like, what century are we who has a pocket square?
I don't know anybody with a pocket square.
So, I mean, it was just so, like, I don't know, like, you
know, like the Fairplay thing, like, dividing it.
So, very strictly, like, the woman stuff is her stuff and she
should never ever have anything,you know, forced into her
(13:56):
domain. She shouldn't even use a silk
scarf. If she doesn't want to, she
should find his pocket square or, and this was serious, he
should go to the Fabric store, she go to the fabric store to go
buy fabric like like they have closed around, you know, they
have like a I mean like he was you was just use true.
(14:17):
It was something really weird. You know about this idea that
like he should have to go out specifically, they gave the
examples of the dollar store in the fabric store.
She go to the dollar store to get a makeup brush and a fabric
store, to get a piece of fabric Like Liquor.
Is though, like you there's no Amazon or something like it was,
it was almost like to humiliate him.
(14:39):
You know what I mean? Like, he would have to go to the
dollar store to get like a makeup brushes.
His his sister. He's excited.
Handjob. Should only be worth a dollar?
I don't know. It's like strange so and then
they of course, said that like oral sex is more important for
women, like men should go down on women, more than women should
go down on men because frequently women need that to
(15:01):
get off but men can get off anyway.
Which is wrong. You know, I'm in a lot of men
have trouble getting off especially as they get older.
And also oral sex is not the only way.
There's also your hand too. And of course, there's many,
many things that people can do to get each other off in bed.
But the idea that like, because the man can get off other ways
(15:24):
than oral sex isn't as importantfor him, as it is for her, was
bizarre. Also, it was bizarre because
most men are dying to give theirwives oral sex and love to give
If their wives oral sex which again makes me think either
there is this crazy population out there that I've not heard
hide nor hair of and 13 years you know doing couples work
which again is possible. This is an extreme and small
(15:47):
subset of people who would neverreach out to somebody secular.
Okay. But again if it does go more
mainstream it paints men as so selfish and domineering and
patriarchal and I'm see any of this.
I see guys. That have knocked out an oral
sex in like 20 years, you know, much and and go down on the
(16:09):
woman like before every encounter because she has to
have her orgasm. So there is another way to go
about this and it is to say thatsex should be a.
Yes, space for men and women andpeople should feel, you know
free in bed. What if feel free in bed, you
(16:30):
know, really you don't want to feel so constrained.
So so if if this allows some women to realize that they have
rights also, when they don't think that they do, that's great
but I don't like the part where it says that men in general or
even Christian. Men are so selfish because I
(16:52):
don't, I don't see that, you know?
And, and I do think that it is anice thing to give your husband,
a hand job, you know? I mean, that isn't something
where and they did say that would be nice, but then It's
only nice if like we're using, like his specific pocket square
and makeup brush versus like hers.
And then it gets kind of into the weeds.
(17:13):
Like, the spirit is gone of it. You know, the generosity is
gone, I guess the generosity is gone, which makes sense.
If it is a culture where women get stepped on all the time, but
if this in any way moves away from just this tiny subset, then
it's painting men, know if no pun intended with A broad brush
(17:35):
and saying that they are very selfish when it isn't what I
see. So what I fear is that women are
going to look at husband's that aren't selfish and be like,
yeah. Now that I think about it, you
know, you are a pretty big asshole and quite honestly, that
is sometimes what I see after women take.
You know, various like women's courses and stuff like that
(17:57):
online or like courses, but led by women about how to reclaim
your libido and but you know, Basically, what they do is they
come home and they say their husband actually, you know, I
don't think that we should have any sex because I should only
have sex when I'm in the mood. And it's like, when you're going
to be in the mood, you're a responsive desire, female in
monogamy, how are you going to be in the mood?
(18:18):
I don't understand. When do you get in the mood?
You know, and it's never and so,then she assumes that because
she's ever had sex when she wasn't in the mood.
Then he's basically an asshole like all these guys.
She's being taught about. Now that are assholes and he's
just been a guy who's trying to get laid, sometimes in his
marriage. Because that's how he wants to
feel close because that is like,literally how men feel close and
(18:41):
just like how for her. It's him saying I love you or
kissing her hugging her saying she was beautiful whatever all
the shit I tell him to do to youknow.
So so my point is take this stuff and and think very
critically whenever you hear something where one gender is
bashed, think about who's sayingit.
Think about their experiences? In this case, maybe these people
(19:03):
really have these Experiences where there is tremendous.
You know, it is a tremendously unfair situation for women who
feel extremely forced into things that they don't want to
do constantly. I do not see that though.
As the norm that if it was the norm Generations ago which it
(19:23):
was, it is not, you know, the, the majority of people that I
see and that I even saw before, I had a platform.
We're Men that That were not barely ever having sex, you
know, like, that's what happens when women aren't happy in.
Marriages, they stopped having sex.
So only sociopaths are like raping their wives.
(19:45):
You know, people that are really, really fucked up.
So most people are then just nothaving sex.
So, you know, I mean, that's gotto what's happening.
But again, you know, if this is something where you feel like
you are in some kind of a marriage, I don't know how you
would be listening to me this long if you were, and still be a
fan. But if you feel that you're in a
marriage, where you, Never say no to your husband for sex.
(20:06):
You're having all kinds of like makeup brush hand jobs that are
against your will. Then this could be helpful to
you, to make you realize that you are a person to with needs.
But if you're in the more normalsituation that I see that, I
talked about where the woman says, no fairly constantly
whenever she wants to say no, then I think you're still in the
(20:26):
other category of people that need to be more generous, you
know, and think about. Hmm.
Maybe this would be nice for my partner.
Maybe I Should get outside my comfort zone as the woman
because that is that that? That is generally what I see.
So, yeah, I mean there was some there's there's definitely some
utility and thinking about this looking at things from other
(20:48):
perspectives, thinking about howthings are different for
different populations. If you though are a guy who
feels like he has not gotten a fair Shake because your wife is
listening to the more of these kinds of things, then it's worth
it to bring up, you know. You know, the reality.
Would you perceive the reality of the situation is, which is
(21:08):
that you are not having anywherenear the sex life you want?
You do not feel any power in thebedroom at all.
You try to give her an orgasm inevery encounter and you feel
very, very lonely. Once you reject, you frequently,
you know, and that is much more of the common situation that I
see. Alright, so I hope that this was
(21:29):
useful and interesting for any of you and I'll talk to you all
soon.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.