May 23, 2024 • 35 mins
In this episode of the Drinks.com podcast, host Brandon Amoroso speaks with Jota Tanaka, the master blender of Fuji Whisky. They delve into Tanaka's remarkable journey from brewing and winemaking in California and Kentucky to his role at Fuji Gotemba Distillery. Jota shares his insights into whiskey blending, market trends, and the impact of global demand on Japanese whiskey. He also discusses the delicate balance between tradition and innovation while introducing the special 50th-anniversary single malt blend. Listen in to uncover the artistry, legacy, and global vision that define Fuji Whisky's approach to crafting spirits.
Jota Tanaka:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jota-tanaka-a19a37146/
Brandon Amoroso:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/
Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/
X - https://twitter.com/AmorosoBrandon
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hey everyone, thanks for listening to the Drinkscom
podcast, the business of onlinealcohol.
I'm your host, brandon Amoroso,and today I'm joined by Jota
Tanaka, and I'm really excitedto have on the show today who is
from Fuji Whiskey.
Thank you for coming on theshow today.
Before we jump into things here, can you give everybody just a
quick background on yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, my name is Jota Tanaka.
I am a master blender for FujiGotenba distillery.
I am a second master blender inour 50-year whiskey making
history.
That's very simple, but that'swho I am.
(00:55):
But later on probably, I willtouch on my experience.
But I started in the brewingbusiness first.
Then I worked in Napa Valley,California.
Then later on I had opportunityto work in Kentucky at the Four
Roses Bourbon Dish Terrier.
That's what made me who I amright now.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
How did you ultimately you know get into the
alcohol industry?
Was it in your family, or howdid that happen?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Just after I graduated from university in
Japan I joined the Kirin Brewery, which is a brewing company.
I joined a company just to wantto work in the future abroad,
(01:55):
especially the US, because ofsome experience in my college
days.
But that's the only thing.
But one year after I joined thecompany, my boss, I was sent to
the Napa Valley.
My boss told me you go to Napa,no choice.
I didn't know anything aboutyou know Carmen, somi or
Charlemagne, such atongue-biting I drank.
(02:19):
Back then I just enjoyed red andwhite kind of sweet, so-called,
but I loved it.
Then my dream became.
You know, my dream was backthen becoming a winemaker,
making my own wine and sellmyself.
(02:39):
But ended up just going back toJapan.
And then later I became theblender at the Fuji Gotenba
distillery, the place where Iwork right now.
But then I worked in severaldivisions marketing department
(03:04):
of wine division.
Then later on I had anopportunity to work for Roses,
which was 2002.
Ended up working in Kentuckyseven years, 2002 to 2009.
That really I loved bubblemaking.
(03:29):
I really enjoyed working therewith people at the Four Roses.
People are so passionate aboutit and people are proud of the
product.
Then I had to go back, I had anext mission, which is current,
(03:50):
became a chief blender.
Then, 2017, I became masterblender, second master blender
in history.
Then where?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I am and, for those that are listening, where is
your location and where is yourproperty located?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Our Fuji Gotenba distillery is located at the
foot of Mount Fuji and MountFuji is a symbol of Japan.
But we are from distillery tothe peak of Mount Fuji less than
seven and a half milesLiterally.
We are at the peak of MountFuji, less than seven and a half
miles Literally.
(04:27):
We are at the foot of MountFuji.
What town is that.
Town or city name is FujiGotenba.
Okay, I'm sorry.
Gotenba City or City of Gotenba, that's the name of whole area.
City of Gotenba, that's thename of whole area.
We are in a city, but literallyreally remote Our area, nothing
(04:54):
but open field and rush forest.
It's not city like that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I've seen Mount Fuji from the train when going from
Kyoto to Tokyo or Osaka to Tokyo.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But you got lucky.
Sometimes Mount Fuji is coveredwith a cloud or mist.
So many people weredisappointed.
So they cannot see at all evensign of it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So we got pretty lucky For one of the days.
It was clearly clear and youcan see it actually from
downtown Tokyo, which was crazy.
So you've been in the alcoholindustry for quite some time,
over 30 plus years so what is?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, you know that to my age, almost 36 years, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
What are some of the biggest differences from when
you entered the entered thealcohol industry to you know
today, in 2024?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
uh, you know, speaking of uh spirits industry
where I'm working in, that'stotally different.
Uh, for example, speaking of uhjapanese in japan, of Japanese
in Japan, mid 1980 was the peakof consumption of whiskey.
(06:28):
So last up until like almost 20years ago, or even 15 years ago
, up until 2010, market wasshrinking, consumption shrinking
.
That's the same as the othercountry too, bourbon industry
(06:54):
when I was in Kentucky,volume-wise going down, keep
going down, down, keep goingdown.
But like around 2010 or so,globally, us bubble market or
Japan whiskey market 2010,around those area last like 10,
(07:18):
15 years start to come up.
So landscape or marketcondition was totally different.
Right now, that's what I hope Ianswer your question.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Or yeah, it seems like at least I'm not super uh
familiar with japanese whiskey,more on the wine side of things
in the united states, but um,the price of Japanese whiskey
and also the popularity of ithas seemed to increase very
significantly over the pastthree to five years.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That is very unfortunate and also maybe later
on I will touch on that.
But now the price of Japanesewhiskey is too.
In my opinion it's too high.
But you know that is the reasonis, you know, of course, supply
(08:14):
and demand, but also some wrongdoor or fake whiskey.
Door or fake whiskey.
Some company try to takeadvantage of being considered
Japanese whiskey so they put inthe high mark pricing.
So that's the people, the image.
(08:36):
Of course some authentic,famous whiskey is really high,
but that's that's the value theyestablish.
There's nothing wrong, yeah,but some ambiguous or fake
japanese looking new product,that's it, I think.
Uh, people don't know about it,but that gives to the wrong
(09:02):
image, to the people.
Got it that?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
makes sense.
Can you explain for everybodythat's listening?
You know how the process of youknow whiskey making actually
takes place.
Like you as the master blender.
What does that look like in ain a given year, taking the you
know for the product all the wayfrom inception to finished in
the bottle and being sold toconsumers in stores?
(09:26):
Because typically I'm used toon the wine side of things with
the grapes and the fermentationprocess and whatnot.
So how much of that is similaror comparable to whiskey?
And then what do thedifferences look like for you
and your process?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, first of all, big differences is whiskey Spend
years and years in the barrelversus the wine Wine for
Charlotte, white wine is severalmonths up to maybe one year,
two years, red wine maybe twoyears or three years.
In maximum.
(10:00):
Whiskey needs to age at leastthree years, but aged 10, 15, 20
, so very long.
And also other differencesafter the fermentation.
You know wine was afterfermentation put in a barrel,
(10:24):
store it in a barrel, but ourspirits, distilled spirits.
After the fermentation is overwe put in the still, so-called
to increase alcohol strength butalso distillation, concentrate
(10:52):
in flavor strength but alsodistillation, concentrating
flavor and stripping outunwanted products.
So Kama was, after thefermentation is over, lots of
solids and color like a murkywater.
But after come out from thestill, what is very translucent,
clear liquid which is inalcohol.
(11:15):
Sometimes malt whisky has, is70%, 140 proof.
140 proof Grain whiskey Is Comeout still Normally.
Well, depends Barber stylewhiskey, that's same as Scotch.
I mean Malt, 70% or 140 proof,but the other grain whiskey is
(11:41):
More than 60.
Which is 120.
More than 120 proof.
Translucent.
That's what we put in thebarrel to age so that they
become amber in color and a lotof rich flavor develop during
the aging.
In a sense distillation takesplace after the fermentation,
(12:08):
prior to barrel aging.
But long process much longer,and also we call stock business.
We need to store lots ofwhiskey in the warehouse looking
for the market in 20 years oreven 30 years.
(12:29):
So that is a very long process.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So a lot of the whiskey that you're working with
, you know it was put intobarrel even before you became
the master blender, because ofhow long the time period is
exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So the what the blender's role is.
It's like, uh, um, you know,we're uh, blending the whiskey
which made by predecessors orother people which made by
predecessors or other people.
That's what we blend.
But what we do is not simplyblend the whiskey but looking
(13:14):
ahead, like 20, 30 years ahead,how much of a whiskey we need
and what type of whiskey we needto produce, calculating, I hope
you know, the angel shares.
During the aging, whiskeyevaporates, taken by angels, so
(13:37):
called.
That's why the whiskey isbecome tastier, but losing the
volume on the alcohol.
So by calculating those angelshares, we need taste here, but
losing the volume and thealcohol.
So by calculating thoseindustries, we need to produce
exact amount we need in 20, 30years.
So that, production planningand also forecasting what kind
(14:04):
of whiskey we need to make,those are the stuff Production
planning, product development orresearch and development, those
are lots involved.
That's what being a blender,leading our teams.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I guess one question I would have is how large is
your production capacity In agiven year?
How much whiskey are you making?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
One is in terms of production capacity.
We are kind of medium, smallsize compared to other whiskey
distillery in the world, otherglobal whiskey distillery in the
world which is about 2 millionpure alcohol liter a year.
That's our production, morewhiskey and grain whiskey, but
(14:55):
just, for example, Fuji whiskeywe're exporting to other market
this moment.
Currently we're, you know, uhlike, uh, just a rough 80 000
cases a year, but then graduallythat's what we focus.
(15:16):
I mean in the future hope thatgrow and also we we're making
some other product too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So I don't know what other types of products are you
making?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
well for the just domestic market.
People enjoy the whiskey as ahighball.
So more affordable,approachable and more versatile
whiskey I mean for dailyconsumption.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Got it.
That makes sense.
Are there particular marketsthat are larger for you than
than others, aside from likedomestic in in japan?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
we just started to export.
Uh, last seven years, aroundthree years, we just started so
differently.
Us is one of key market butthis moment gradually first went
(16:26):
to.
We exported to France.
First we exported to France,first the UK, the US, then
Australia and some Singapore,and now, just this trip I was in
Eastern Europe.
(16:46):
So those are the countries likekind of Balkans.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Those areas.
We gradually started openmarket Got it Definitely
expanding a bit.
To go back to your commentsabout how long the aging process
takes place, for where are yougetting your barrels from,
because I know wine is typicallylike American or French oak.
What type of wood are you using?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
for your products.
Majority of barrel we use areAmerican white oak.
It's like a Scotch too.
People love American white oakin terms of flavor and also
durability and just consistencyand quantity-wise.
American white oak is, Ibelieve, the best for whiskey
(17:39):
making.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
That's what we use.
When it comes to the agingprocess.
Why, for example, is an 18-yearversus a 12-year so much more
limited and expensive?
And same for like 25 or 30?
Like is it primarily around thetime that it spends in the
barrel, or are there othercomponents and factors that go
(18:05):
into some of the more limitedand exclusive Japanese whiskeys
that a consumer might see onceyou start to get to that higher
period of time in barrel?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Unlike people need to understand that when it comes
to vintage wine, people callvintage that was the grape, that
vintage was the year the grapewas harvested.
Yep 12 years, 18 years, 21years on the whiskey.
(18:42):
That is minimum age.
If you drop five years whiskeyinto 20 or 18, 12, you have to
put five minimum youngestwhiskey, the age of youngest
whiskey will need to be put onthe label.
(19:05):
So 12 years means minimum 12years.
But high quality, famous whiskey, that's a minimum, blending
with lots of other older orvariety of limited whiskey so
that that product have more,lots of flavor.
(19:28):
So that's one thing.
The most important thing is,like I mentioned, flavor.
So that's one thing.
The most important thing is,like I mentioned, angel share.
Once you put it into the barrelwhiskey evaporates.
So losing sometimes dependsupon condition 2 to 5% a year
(19:56):
lose, think about 5.
And also we call barrel.
Consume, you know, taken liquidonce put in the first time.
Consume, you know, taken liquidonce put in the first time.
(20:16):
That's they say 5%, includingthose if you age, say 20 years
in a barrel.
After the 20 years of agewhiskey left was, I would say,
(20:37):
like 65% from the original or70%, that depends upon the
condition, but that's thewhiskey.
So losing alcohol and also fora long year 12 years, 20 years
(20:58):
stored in the warehouse.
That is a matter of economicsStorage fee and you know value,
stay in.
You know it's like a bank.
Yeah, nothing, no interestminus that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Um how does, like this technology play a role at
all into the blending process?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
okay, maybe I just assume you are from like
e-commerce technology and youare much younger than I am.
One thing I tell you reallymodern technology help to
improve productivity, efficiencyAlso, that depends upon where
(21:52):
you use it, but sometimes reallyincrease the safety.
And whiskey production is verydangerous rolling a big barrel
or the in a lot of a heat.
People have a lot of endeavorand time to make sure you know
(22:14):
produce correct.
But the thing is, when it comesto analysis, blending or those
production area, the productwe're making is for people's
consumption.
People's consumption, how wecan meet your palate or our
(22:34):
consuming that's a matter ofhuman senses or just it's not
analysis.
So although we may analyze thewhiskey, but final decision is
our nose palette and more how wecan inspire people.
(22:57):
So that's not how do you sayindustrial product, that's more
of human, how we can appeal tohuman.
That sense human never be,never be replaced by those
(23:21):
technologies.
I mean in the production.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's what I believe okay, now that makes sense.
So a lot of technology playsinto some of the outside factors
that go into production, likethe safety and productivity and
things like that.
But at the end of the day theactual taste of the product
comes down to.
You know the nose, the palateand you know what consumers
(23:45):
actually want to drink and enjoy, which is much more difficult
to optimize with technology orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, one example is analysis of whiskey.
You can detect a very tinyamount of some chemical, but
analysis cannot tell anything.
For example we found by humansenses blender.
(24:16):
We see some flaw or somenegative character which really
people don't like.
But sometimes machine oranalytical equipment cannot tell
one from another.
One is good, one is really bad.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Sometimes that happens, so number doesn't mean
anything sometimes there's a lotmore nuance that goes into it
than just being able to plug itinto a computer, to a computer.
(24:56):
When it comes to the market asa whole over the next 20, 30
years as that's what you'relooking ahead at when you're
doing production and doing yourblending where do you see the
market going and how does thatis a very good question.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
But also it's very hard to focus, as you know.
As you might know, the marketjust speaking of whiskey market
we never, like 20 years ago, Inever expected whiskey grow that
(25:36):
much as it is right now.
This moment, globally, whiskeyboom all over market.
Growing distilleries pop uplike a mushroom all over the
globe.
For example, kentucky, when Iunderstand, more than 100.
(26:03):
So that's in 20 years, I don'tknow.
Hopefully it keeps growing.
But the good thing is now a lotof people, newcomers, people try
(26:28):
to do to make a good quality ofstuff in a way, new people,
more interested in new consumerscoming in.
So it's uh, I, I, I believe nowwe're in the you a good
(26:52):
condition and people enjoy whatwe make.
Hopefully that keeps going.
You need to prepare whateverhappens.
And also, you know we have a weare kind of stock business.
We're going to keep making thewhiskey, but it's very difficult
(27:14):
to focus.
But at the same time, if wekeep doing the same thing,
people lose interest.
So that's why we keepexperimenting and try to make
(27:36):
much more appealing whiskeys.
Got it and whiskeys Got it.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Well, I've got two fun questions for you to end
things here, versus all thenitty-gritty specifics around
blending yeah, but if you had tochoose one drink, what's your
favorite drink?
Is it a whiskey, or do youprefer maybe wine or something?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Or what's your favorite drink oh, it's a tough
question but differently, wineor whiskey.
But I'll tell you.
I just want to introduce thismarket shortly.
(28:32):
Okay, this is kind of a lot ofhistory involved.
This is a blend of inauguralyear, which we started operation
1973.
So blend of some of the whiskeydistilled in 1973.
(28:53):
So aged in the barrel almost 50years Weird, that's crazy.
From every decade, from 1970s,80s, 90s, 1990s, 2000, 2010s,
from each lot whiskey wemeticulously select, made this
(29:17):
happen, limited edition.
Look, this is a kind of a lotof stuff involved.
So I would say this moment, I'mreally proud of this product
and this is this is kind of wecall the concept of this is,
with every sip of this whiskey,experiencing history and
(29:43):
evolution of Fuji Gotenbadistillery.
That is, other products cannotmake that history.
I mean to celebrate 50-yearanniversary.
We launched this as a limitededition.
A limited edition but insidethe liquid, some of the cloth,
(30:10):
almost 50 years and 40 years, 30years, 20 years, a lot of
liquid involved, not simplyblending those, but we
meticulously select, a lot ofpeople involved our predecessor
and, you know, current workers,me and other fellow blenders,
distillers.
This is full of, orconcentration of, people's
(30:32):
spirits and hope and I don'tknow how to say it.
So this is, I would say, if Iwould choose the last whiskey
sip before I die those are thestuff.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Well, that's very unique.
That's really cool.
And also you have the abilityto do that versus some of the
maybe new whiskey distillers whodon't have that history and
longevity in business.
And then last question um andlongevity in in business.
And then last question if youhad to choose one person in the
world to share a drink of thatwith, who would it be?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, that's a and a good question.
I can tell uh, first masterblender of Fujiko timber, which
is who is Mr Uh Ichiro oh youino.
He passed away about 30 yearsago, 25 years ago but with him
(31:43):
to talk about what we've beendoing, and I want that person I
mean I want to hear what hethinks.
Am I doing good or wrong?
But hopefully he reallyappreciate.
But also, what I want to talkwith him is a future when we
(32:09):
blend this.
Without Mr Ogino's endeavorsand passion, but also other
predecessors in the work, wecannot make this happen.
But what we thinking about isnext, 50 years, what we need to
do for next generation or nextmaster blender, or next.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
So that's you're, you're also setting the stage
for, you know, the next 50 yearsto come, and there will be
somebody else 50 years from nowwho's working with you.
Know the product that you wereworking with right now?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
exactly so that's what I need.
I want you to discuss with mrOgino what do you think about.
But I know that can happen.
But that's the person.
Anyway.
I wanted to talk and share andenjoy the whiskey.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I think that's one of the things that makes whiskey
and wine in particular,especially compared to beer a
little bit more sort of nuancedor romanticized is the fact that
you have this very long history.
You know whether it's wine somevintages are decades old or you
(33:33):
know whiskey with, you know 25,30 plus years of age and you
know the bottle you were justshowing.
There's so much history thatwent into it, probably hundreds,
if not thousands of people whohad some sort of impact in what
ended up going into that bottle,and I think that that's very
(33:54):
unique that most products don'thave.
Um, that's one of the thingsthat's really, really, you know,
awesome about just the alcoholindustry as a whole.
Is that history and story?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, that's what kept me interested.
I really enjoy what I do.
I'm happy to be the blender andI'm happy to be in the position
where, looking forward at thesame time and looking back
(34:23):
history background what we needto do.
So one thing I just shouldmention earlier in a blender,
it's not simply blending whiskey.
People think blending is simple, just mixing whiskey, tasting
whiskey every day, just blend it.
(34:43):
But not like that.
We are like a conductor of theorchestra and bits and pieces
communicate.
A bunch of people get together,looking for the certain
direction.
Let's go Create music or createvalue or something appeal to
(35:06):
the audience or consumers.
So that's what we do.
That's what makes me reallyhappy doing Well.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
I'll have to look out for abottle of that in the US market
and see if we can find it, butagain, thank you so much for
coming on For everybody that'slistening.
Again, this was Jota Tanaka ofFuji Whiskey and I am Brandon
(35:38):
Amoroso.
You can find us at drinkscomand we will see you next time.
Thanks for listening.
Hey everyone, thanks for listening to the Drinkscom
podcast, the business of onlinealcohol.
I'm your host, brandon Amoroso,and today I'm joined by Jota
Tanaka, and I'm really excitedto have on the show today who is
from Fuji Whiskey.
Thank you for coming on theshow today.
Before we jump into things here, can you give everybody just a
quick background on yourself?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, my name is Jota Tanaka.
I am a master blender for FujiGotenba distillery.
I am a second master blender inour 50-year whiskey making
history.
That's very simple, but that'swho I am.
(00:55):
But later on probably, I willtouch on my experience.
But I started in the brewingbusiness first.
Then I worked in Napa Valley,California.
Then later on I had opportunityto work in Kentucky at the Four
Roses Bourbon Dish Terrier.
That's what made me who I amright now.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
How did you ultimately you know get into the
alcohol industry?
Was it in your family, or howdid that happen?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Just after I graduated from university in
Japan I joined the Kirin Brewery, which is a brewing company.
I joined a company just to wantto work in the future abroad,
(01:55):
especially the US, because ofsome experience in my college
days.
But that's the only thing.
But one year after I joined thecompany, my boss, I was sent to
the Napa Valley.
My boss told me you go to Napa,no choice.
I didn't know anything aboutyou know Carmen, somi or
Charlemagne, such atongue-biting I drank.
(02:19):
Back then I just enjoyed red andwhite kind of sweet, so-called,
but I loved it.
Then my dream became.
You know, my dream was backthen becoming a winemaker,
making my own wine and sellmyself.
(02:39):
But ended up just going back toJapan.
And then later I became theblender at the Fuji Gotenba
distillery, the place where Iwork right now.
But then I worked in severaldivisions marketing department
(03:04):
of wine division.
Then later on I had anopportunity to work for Roses,
which was 2002.
Ended up working in Kentuckyseven years, 2002 to 2009.
That really I loved bubblemaking.
(03:29):
I really enjoyed working therewith people at the Four Roses.
People are so passionate aboutit and people are proud of the
product.
Then I had to go back, I had anext mission, which is current,
(03:50):
became a chief blender.
Then, 2017, I became masterblender, second master blender
in history.
Then where?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I am and, for those that are listening, where is
your location and where is yourproperty located?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Our Fuji Gotenba distillery is located at the
foot of Mount Fuji and MountFuji is a symbol of Japan.
But we are from distillery tothe peak of Mount Fuji less than
seven and a half milesLiterally.
We are at the peak of MountFuji, less than seven and a half
miles Literally.
(04:27):
We are at the foot of MountFuji.
What town is that.
Town or city name is FujiGotenba.
Okay, I'm sorry.
Gotenba City or City of Gotenba, that's the name of whole area.
City of Gotenba, that's thename of whole area.
We are in a city, but literallyreally remote Our area, nothing
(04:54):
but open field and rush forest.
It's not city like that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I've seen Mount Fuji from the train when going from
Kyoto to Tokyo or Osaka to Tokyo.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But you got lucky.
Sometimes Mount Fuji is coveredwith a cloud or mist.
So many people weredisappointed.
So they cannot see at all evensign of it.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So we got pretty lucky For one of the days.
It was clearly clear and youcan see it actually from
downtown Tokyo, which was crazy.
So you've been in the alcoholindustry for quite some time,
over 30 plus years so what is?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, you know that to my age, almost 36 years, yeah
.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
What are some of the biggest differences from when
you entered the entered thealcohol industry to you know
today, in 2024?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
uh, you know, speaking of uh spirits industry
where I'm working in, that'stotally different.
Uh, for example, speaking of uhjapanese in japan, of Japanese
in Japan, mid 1980 was the peakof consumption of whiskey.
(06:28):
So last up until like almost 20years ago, or even 15 years ago
, up until 2010, market wasshrinking, consumption shrinking
.
That's the same as the othercountry too, bourbon industry
(06:54):
when I was in Kentucky,volume-wise going down, keep
going down, down, keep goingdown.
But like around 2010 or so,globally, us bubble market or
Japan whiskey market 2010,around those area last like 10,
(07:18):
15 years start to come up.
So landscape or marketcondition was totally different.
Right now, that's what I hope Ianswer your question.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Or yeah, it seems like at least I'm not super uh
familiar with japanese whiskey,more on the wine side of things
in the united states, but um,the price of Japanese whiskey
and also the popularity of ithas seemed to increase very
significantly over the pastthree to five years.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That is very unfortunate and also maybe later
on I will touch on that.
But now the price of Japanesewhiskey is too.
In my opinion it's too high.
But you know that is the reasonis, you know, of course, supply
(08:14):
and demand, but also some wrongdoor or fake whiskey.
Door or fake whiskey.
Some company try to takeadvantage of being considered
Japanese whiskey so they put inthe high mark pricing.
So that's the people, the image.
(08:36):
Of course some authentic,famous whiskey is really high,
but that's that's the value theyestablish.
There's nothing wrong, yeah,but some ambiguous or fake
japanese looking new product,that's it, I think.
Uh, people don't know about it,but that gives to the wrong
(09:02):
image, to the people.
Got it that?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
makes sense.
Can you explain for everybodythat's listening?
You know how the process of youknow whiskey making actually
takes place.
Like you as the master blender.
What does that look like in ain a given year, taking the you
know for the product all the wayfrom inception to finished in
the bottle and being sold toconsumers in stores?
(09:26):
Because typically I'm used toon the wine side of things with
the grapes and the fermentationprocess and whatnot.
So how much of that is similaror comparable to whiskey?
And then what do thedifferences look like for you
and your process?
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Okay, first of all, big differences is whiskey Spend
years and years in the barrelversus the wine Wine for
Charlotte, white wine is severalmonths up to maybe one year,
two years, red wine maybe twoyears or three years.
In maximum.
(10:00):
Whiskey needs to age at leastthree years, but aged 10, 15, 20
, so very long.
And also other differencesafter the fermentation.
You know wine was afterfermentation put in a barrel,
(10:24):
store it in a barrel, but ourspirits, distilled spirits.
After the fermentation is overwe put in the still, so-called
to increase alcohol strength butalso distillation, concentrate
(10:52):
in flavor strength but alsodistillation, concentrating
flavor and stripping outunwanted products.
So Kama was, after thefermentation is over, lots of
solids and color like a murkywater.
But after come out from thestill, what is very translucent,
clear liquid which is inalcohol.
(11:15):
Sometimes malt whisky has, is70%, 140 proof.
140 proof Grain whiskey Is Comeout still Normally.
Well, depends Barber stylewhiskey, that's same as Scotch.
I mean Malt, 70% or 140 proof,but the other grain whiskey is
(11:41):
More than 60.
Which is 120.
More than 120 proof.
Translucent.
That's what we put in thebarrel to age so that they
become amber in color and a lotof rich flavor develop during
the aging.
In a sense distillation takesplace after the fermentation,
(12:08):
prior to barrel aging.
But long process much longer,and also we call stock business.
We need to store lots ofwhiskey in the warehouse looking
for the market in 20 years oreven 30 years.
(12:29):
So that is a very long process.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
So a lot of the whiskey that you're working with
, you know it was put intobarrel even before you became
the master blender, because ofhow long the time period is
exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So the what the blender's role is.
It's like, uh, um, you know,we're uh, blending the whiskey
which made by predecessors orother people which made by
predecessors or other people.
That's what we blend.
But what we do is not simplyblend the whiskey but looking
(13:14):
ahead, like 20, 30 years ahead,how much of a whiskey we need
and what type of whiskey we needto produce, calculating, I hope
you know, the angel shares.
During the aging, whiskeyevaporates, taken by angels, so
(13:37):
called.
That's why the whiskey isbecome tastier, but losing the
volume on the alcohol.
So by calculating those angelshares, we need taste here, but
losing the volume and thealcohol.
So by calculating thoseindustries, we need to produce
exact amount we need in 20, 30years.
So that, production planningand also forecasting what kind
(14:04):
of whiskey we need to make,those are the stuff Production
planning, product development orresearch and development, those
are lots involved.
That's what being a blender,leading our teams.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
I guess one question I would have is how large is
your production capacity In agiven year?
How much whiskey are you making?
Speaker 2 (14:31):
One is in terms of production capacity.
We are kind of medium, smallsize compared to other whiskey
distillery in the world, otherglobal whiskey distillery in the
world which is about 2 millionpure alcohol liter a year.
That's our production, morewhiskey and grain whiskey, but
(14:55):
just, for example, Fuji whiskeywe're exporting to other market
this moment.
Currently we're, you know, uhlike, uh, just a rough 80 000
cases a year, but then graduallythat's what we focus.
(15:16):
I mean in the future hope thatgrow and also we we're making
some other product too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So I don't know what other types of products are you
making?
Speaker 2 (15:29):
well for the just domestic market.
People enjoy the whiskey as ahighball.
So more affordable,approachable and more versatile
whiskey I mean for dailyconsumption.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Got it.
That makes sense.
Are there particular marketsthat are larger for you than
than others, aside from likedomestic in in japan?
Speaker 2 (15:57):
we just started to export.
Uh, last seven years, aroundthree years, we just started so
differently.
Us is one of key market butthis moment gradually first went
(16:26):
to.
We exported to France.
First we exported to France,first the UK, the US, then
Australia and some Singapore,and now, just this trip I was in
Eastern Europe.
(16:46):
So those are the countries likekind of Balkans.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Those areas.
We gradually started openmarket Got it Definitely
expanding a bit.
To go back to your commentsabout how long the aging process
takes place, for where are yougetting your barrels from,
because I know wine is typicallylike American or French oak.
What type of wood are you using?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
for your products.
Majority of barrel we use areAmerican white oak.
It's like a Scotch too.
People love American white oakin terms of flavor and also
durability and just consistencyand quantity-wise.
American white oak is, Ibelieve, the best for whiskey
(17:39):
making.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
That's what we use.
When it comes to the agingprocess.
Why, for example, is an 18-yearversus a 12-year so much more
limited and expensive?
And same for like 25 or 30?
Like is it primarily around thetime that it spends in the
barrel, or are there othercomponents and factors that go
(18:05):
into some of the more limitedand exclusive Japanese whiskeys
that a consumer might see onceyou start to get to that higher
period of time in barrel?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Unlike people need to understand that when it comes
to vintage wine, people callvintage that was the grape, that
vintage was the year the grapewas harvested.
Yep 12 years, 18 years, 21years on the whiskey.
(18:42):
That is minimum age.
If you drop five years whiskeyinto 20 or 18, 12, you have to
put five minimum youngestwhiskey, the age of youngest
whiskey will need to be put onthe label.
(19:05):
So 12 years means minimum 12years.
But high quality, famous whiskey, that's a minimum, blending
with lots of other older orvariety of limited whiskey so
that that product have more,lots of flavor.
(19:28):
So that's one thing.
The most important thing is,like I mentioned, flavor.
So that's one thing.
The most important thing is,like I mentioned, angel share.
Once you put it into the barrelwhiskey evaporates.
So losing sometimes dependsupon condition 2 to 5% a year
(19:56):
lose, think about 5.
And also we call barrel.
Consume, you know, taken liquidonce put in the first time.
Consume, you know, taken liquidonce put in the first time.
(20:16):
That's they say 5%, includingthose if you age, say 20 years
in a barrel.
After the 20 years of agewhiskey left was, I would say,
(20:37):
like 65% from the original or70%, that depends upon the
condition, but that's thewhiskey.
So losing alcohol and also fora long year 12 years, 20 years
(20:58):
stored in the warehouse.
That is a matter of economicsStorage fee and you know value,
stay in.
You know it's like a bank.
Yeah, nothing, no interestminus that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Um how does, like this technology play a role at
all into the blending process?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
okay, maybe I just assume you are from like
e-commerce technology and youare much younger than I am.
One thing I tell you reallymodern technology help to
improve productivity, efficiencyAlso, that depends upon where
(21:52):
you use it, but sometimes reallyincrease the safety.
And whiskey production is verydangerous rolling a big barrel
or the in a lot of a heat.
People have a lot of endeavorand time to make sure you know
(22:14):
produce correct.
But the thing is, when it comesto analysis, blending or those
production area, the productwe're making is for people's
consumption.
People's consumption, how wecan meet your palate or our
(22:34):
consuming that's a matter ofhuman senses or just it's not
analysis.
So although we may analyze thewhiskey, but final decision is
our nose palette and more how wecan inspire people.
(22:57):
So that's not how do you sayindustrial product, that's more
of human, how we can appeal tohuman.
That sense human never be,never be replaced by those
(23:21):
technologies.
I mean in the production.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
That's what I believe okay, now that makes sense.
So a lot of technology playsinto some of the outside factors
that go into production, likethe safety and productivity and
things like that.
But at the end of the day theactual taste of the product
comes down to.
You know the nose, the palateand you know what consumers
(23:45):
actually want to drink and enjoy, which is much more difficult
to optimize with technology orsomething like that.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Yeah, one example is analysis of whiskey.
You can detect a very tinyamount of some chemical, but
analysis cannot tell anything.
For example we found by humansenses blender.
(24:16):
We see some flaw or somenegative character which really
people don't like.
But sometimes machine oranalytical equipment cannot tell
one from another.
One is good, one is really bad.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Sometimes that happens, so number doesn't mean
anything sometimes there's a lotmore nuance that goes into it
than just being able to plug itinto a computer, to a computer.
(24:56):
When it comes to the market asa whole over the next 20, 30
years as that's what you'relooking ahead at when you're
doing production and doing yourblending where do you see the
market going and how does thatis a very good question.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
But also it's very hard to focus, as you know.
As you might know, the marketjust speaking of whiskey market
we never, like 20 years ago, Inever expected whiskey grow that
(25:36):
much as it is right now.
This moment, globally, whiskeyboom all over market.
Growing distilleries pop uplike a mushroom all over the
globe.
For example, kentucky, when Iunderstand, more than 100.
(26:03):
So that's in 20 years, I don'tknow.
Hopefully it keeps growing.
But the good thing is now a lotof people, newcomers, people try
(26:28):
to do to make a good quality ofstuff in a way, new people,
more interested in new consumerscoming in.
So it's uh, I, I, I believe nowwe're in the you a good
(26:52):
condition and people enjoy whatwe make.
Hopefully that keeps going.
You need to prepare whateverhappens.
And also, you know we have a weare kind of stock business.
We're going to keep making thewhiskey, but it's very difficult
(27:14):
to focus.
But at the same time, if wekeep doing the same thing,
people lose interest.
So that's why we keepexperimenting and try to make
(27:36):
much more appealing whiskeys.
Got it and whiskeys Got it.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Well, I've got two fun questions for you to end
things here, versus all thenitty-gritty specifics around
blending yeah, but if you had tochoose one drink, what's your
favorite drink?
Is it a whiskey, or do youprefer maybe wine or something?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Or what's your favorite drink oh, it's a tough
question but differently, wineor whiskey.
But I'll tell you.
I just want to introduce thismarket shortly.
(28:32):
Okay, this is kind of a lot ofhistory involved.
This is a blend of inauguralyear, which we started operation
1973.
So blend of some of the whiskeydistilled in 1973.
(28:53):
So aged in the barrel almost 50years Weird, that's crazy.
From every decade, from 1970s,80s, 90s, 1990s, 2000, 2010s,
from each lot whiskey wemeticulously select, made this
(29:17):
happen, limited edition.
Look, this is a kind of a lotof stuff involved.
So I would say this moment, I'mreally proud of this product
and this is this is kind of wecall the concept of this is,
with every sip of this whiskey,experiencing history and
(29:43):
evolution of Fuji Gotenbadistillery.
That is, other products cannotmake that history.
I mean to celebrate 50-yearanniversary.
We launched this as a limitededition.
A limited edition but insidethe liquid, some of the cloth,
(30:10):
almost 50 years and 40 years, 30years, 20 years, a lot of
liquid involved, not simplyblending those, but we
meticulously select, a lot ofpeople involved our predecessor
and, you know, current workers,me and other fellow blenders,
distillers.
This is full of, orconcentration of, people's
(30:32):
spirits and hope and I don'tknow how to say it.
So this is, I would say, if Iwould choose the last whiskey
sip before I die those are thestuff.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Well, that's very unique.
That's really cool.
And also you have the abilityto do that versus some of the
maybe new whiskey distillers whodon't have that history and
longevity in business.
And then last question um andlongevity in in business.
And then last question if youhad to choose one person in the
world to share a drink of thatwith, who would it be?
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, that's a and a good question.
I can tell uh, first masterblender of Fujiko timber, which
is who is Mr Uh Ichiro oh youino.
He passed away about 30 yearsago, 25 years ago but with him
(31:43):
to talk about what we've beendoing, and I want that person I
mean I want to hear what hethinks.
Am I doing good or wrong?
But hopefully he reallyappreciate.
But also, what I want to talkwith him is a future when we
(32:09):
blend this.
Without Mr Ogino's endeavorsand passion, but also other
predecessors in the work, wecannot make this happen.
But what we thinking about isnext, 50 years, what we need to
do for next generation or nextmaster blender, or next.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
So that's you're, you're also setting the stage
for, you know, the next 50 yearsto come, and there will be
somebody else 50 years from nowwho's working with you.
Know the product that you wereworking with right now?
Speaker 2 (32:49):
exactly so that's what I need.
I want you to discuss with mrOgino what do you think about.
But I know that can happen.
But that's the person.
Anyway.
I wanted to talk and share andenjoy the whiskey.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I think that's one of the things that makes whiskey
and wine in particular,especially compared to beer a
little bit more sort of nuancedor romanticized is the fact that
you have this very long history.
You know whether it's wine somevintages are decades old or you
(33:33):
know whiskey with, you know 25,30 plus years of age and you
know the bottle you were justshowing.
There's so much history thatwent into it, probably hundreds,
if not thousands of people whohad some sort of impact in what
ended up going into that bottle,and I think that that's very
(33:54):
unique that most products don'thave.
Um, that's one of the thingsthat's really, really, you know,
awesome about just the alcoholindustry as a whole.
Is that history and story?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, that's what kept me interested.
I really enjoy what I do.
I'm happy to be the blender andI'm happy to be in the position
where, looking forward at thesame time and looking back
(34:23):
history background what we needto do.
So one thing I just shouldmention earlier in a blender,
it's not simply blending whiskey.
People think blending is simple, just mixing whiskey, tasting
whiskey every day, just blend it.
(34:43):
But not like that.
We are like a conductor of theorchestra and bits and pieces
communicate.
A bunch of people get together,looking for the certain
direction.
Let's go Create music or createvalue or something appeal to
(35:06):
the audience or consumers.
So that's what we do.
That's what makes me reallyhappy doing Well.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
That's awesome.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
I'll have to look out for abottle of that in the US market
and see if we can find it, butagain, thank you so much for
coming on For everybody that'slistening.
Again, this was Jota Tanaka ofFuji Whiskey and I am Brandon
(35:38):
Amoroso.
You can find us at drinkscomand we will see you next time.
Thanks for listening.
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