Step into the world of wine innovation with host Brandon Amoroso and special guest Johan Eide, the mastermind behind Region and Sampl. Together, they unravel the complexities of wine production, the power of direct-to-consumer sales, and the future of tasting room experiences. Join them as they uncork the secrets to authentic wine engagement and toast to a future where tradition meets innovation.
Johan Eide
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johan-eide-8191b9114
Brandon Amoroso:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandonamoroso/
Web - https://brandonamoroso.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bamoroso11/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, thank you for listening to the
Drinkscom podcast the businessof online alcohol.
I'm your host, brandon Amoroso,and today I'm talking with
Johan Eid, who's the founder andowner of Region and Sample
(00:21):
businesses, whose goal is toredefine how wine is experienced
and shared.
Thanks for coming on the showtoday.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thanks for having me, Brandon.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So, before we dive into some of the topics that we
want to cover today, can yougive everybody just a quick
background on what region andsample are, as well as some of
your background too?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, I'm Yohan, founder of Region.
Along with Kerry Theodorff, westarted Region and Sample back
in 2019.
Before that, I was an engineerat Cal Poly and had a senior
project that introduced me topatent law, and so I took the
bar and practiced patent law forfour or five years before
(01:03):
starting Region and Sample, andso definitely didn't see myself
as an engineering studententering the wine industry, but
saw a problem, and what wasgoing to be a side business now
has snowballed into two parallelbrands under vine shifting and
region and sample and, like yousaid is, we have two brands
(01:23):
under the entity.
We can get into that more, butthat's a little bit of my
background, coming fromengineering and then over into
the wine industry.
I grew up in Russian RiverValley, always surrounded by
wine, always made a Pinot Noirwith my dad in Sebastopol,
california, but it was neverreally my focus of is this going
to be a career path or not, andit wasn't until we started.
(01:46):
The side hustle of region is Ithought was going to be a
weekend business.
Um, that really, uh, found sometraction in market and hit a
hit, a chord, I think, with withsome of what, uh, what today's
consumer is looking for and why.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And how did you ultimately decide to make that
leap from you know law over tothe wine side of the world?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, I, like I said I thought I could pull off both,
and then COVID made thatdecision really clear for me.
I mean, I put my name on thelease and personally guaranteed
the lease in the end of 2019.
And we were going to be doingbuild out of, you know, between
January to June of 2020.
And everybody knows whathappens in March of 2020.
(02:35):
And at that point I said I haveto make this work, we have to
somehow open our doors.
You know, we had people come in, pour wine out of the machines
with their mask and then tastein the parking lot, and then a
few, you know, we had peoplecome in, pour wine out of the
machines with their mask andthen taste in the parking lot
and then a few months later wehad all the fires.
So, um, it was a veryinteresting first year, but it
wasn't a.
I was trying to do both andthen life came back and said
(02:58):
Nope, you're, you're only goingto do this, this one path.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
It's interesting how sometimes we get that nudge or
push in one direction or theother.
I feel like you know personally, you know at a certain point
you can only balance so manythings and there's a lot of you
know power in having onesingular focus and being able to
expand on that when it comes toyou know why you wanted to
(03:27):
start region and sample to beginwith, and sort of which one
came first.
Was it region, was it sample?
And how has that evolved overtime?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, it was definitely region.
Sample was a fun idea thatregion could do to take, you
know, single serve glasses homewith you from the physical
stores.
Um, but really it was, it wasregion.
And and what got me excited tostart region was, uh, in my
hometown there was a developmentcalled the Barlow.
Um, it's sort of like tin cityand Paso Robles, if you're
(03:58):
familiar with tin city and thatconcept.
Um, but it's meant to be amaker marketplace where there's
three or four breweries CostaBrown was in there, which is a
very renowned Pinot Noirproducer from Russian River
Valley and it's now owned byDuckhorn but there's three or
(04:18):
four restaurants and therereally wasn't a wine bar or wine
bar aspect to it.
And I watched my hometown kindof be transformed by this
development and you know,ultimately it started from I
wanted to put all the lawoffices, or at least have a law
office, in the Barlow, becauseit was, it was the spot to be,
and I thought how could I putthe law offices in the back and
(04:41):
some sort of wine bar concept inthe front?
And in that process we Istumbled onto the state of the
wine industry reports by SiliconValley bank in 20, that would
have been the 2020 or 2019.
Yeah, no, the 2019 state of theindustry report.
And there was some, somecomments and some trends that
(05:03):
were in there that were reallypolarizing to me.
Um, and you know, one of them,you know from my home County is,
you know, eight years in a row,tourism was up before COVID, um
to Sonoma County, but also forsix or seven years in a row,
tasting and visitation was down.
So how is this possible Ifwe're one of the fastest growing
(05:27):
wine growing regions, such adestination of travel?
Why is tasting or visitationgoing down?
And what is changing in today'sconsumer?
And really it was those SiliconValley state of the wine
industry reports that really gotme excited, or I felt that I
maybe saw something here thatwas evolving in the industry and
(05:50):
what the consumer wants andthat, to me, was okay.
How can we do a concept in theBarlow that's addressing that?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And is this your first foray into running your
own business?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So I would say that we had, before I had, my patent
guys, which was like a littleboutique firm where a few
different patent agents andmyself teamed up to do our own
business and just sort of beboutique patent consultation and
patent prosecution fordifferent inventors and small
companies.
(06:22):
So that was technically thefirst business that I you know I
had built the website for andfigured out how to do Google
business ads and we did overflowwork for other law firms.
Um, and before that, um, I howI got into patent law was, um,
my best friend and I love to gofishing and we fished in college
so we invented a touchscreensatellite fishing scale that
(06:46):
turned into a patent and then weended up licensing those
patents where now that scalewill be the official scale of
major league fishing coming outnext year.
So it was a.
You know, that's how I got intopatent law originally was we
had a, we were, we were collegekids who were trying to solve a
problem in the fishing industryand ended up inventing something
(07:07):
.
And then I paid somebody $450and $750 an hour to write a
patent and uh and uh, thatthat's what sparked my interest
is I was like how are you know Ican become a patent agent.
These guys are making what and,uh, I really liked it.
I liked the technical aspect ofit of how does this work?
How did they creatively draftthe claims?
(07:28):
I already knew how to model itand do the drawing, so it was a
natural path and I figured if Idid R&D engineering or
mechanical engineering anywhere,whoever would hire me would
also find it valuable that Ialso had passed the patent bar
and could be in-house counselfor them?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Is there any application of that patent
experience that you've takenover to region or sample?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Absolutely For sample .
We have four design patents andtwo pending, one granted
utility application and some PCTapplications as well, and we
can get into more of setting upa basis of what region and
sample are.
But really on sample was ourdigital tasting experience.
(08:19):
Now we have that whole.
You can actually patent amethod of doing business.
So we patented that entiredigital interaction from those
wine sampling kits onto um, ontoa purchasing platform.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Got it.
That's a.
It's an interesting sort ofoverlap there between the two
businesses, but you definitelychose, you know, one of the
hardest industries to jump into.
Did you understand or at least,Nope, not at all Overwhelming
complexity that goes intorunning an alcohol business?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
No, I joke now that I should.
You know, I feel like now I docompliance law because of how
much we've had to learn andwe're trying to push the
boundaries in the wine industry.
So really trying to push thethree-tiered system to see what
(09:18):
is Innovation doesn't reallymesh with the three tiers at all
, and so that was probably ahuge learning curve and I
wouldn't recommend that anyonedo a startup in alcohol at all.
It was probably one of thehardest parts, if not the
hardest part, of starting out,because every time we felt that
first year or two we wanted todo something, Council came back
and said, yeah, you can't dothat, or that's a great idea and
(09:42):
everyone would love to do that,but you can't do that.
And even from the brick andmortar perspective of the
locations and what we're tryingto do and pull off, there we it
was.
Yeah, I was very underestimatedthe compliance and alcohol
complexity.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, it is.
It's definitely shocking foroutsiders entering the industry,
but I think it's a good thingas well, outsiders coming into
the industry, because it pushesthe envelope a bit more.
And you ask those questions youknow, like why the hell is this
the way that it needs to bedone, or why are all these sort
of roadblocks in place?
And I feel like you know theoutsiders are also a little bit
(10:30):
more uh, confident or, um,willing in their ability to push
those boundaries versus tryingto stay within the lanes yeah,
it was.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I mean, it's probably because I'm I'm a very stubborn
norwegian and want to, you know, always find out the.
You know, it's the engineeringmindset of there's a problem,
like there's always a solution.
We're just not thinking aboutit.
What are we thinking about itwrong?
Or how are we thinking about itwrong?
And I think that you, you arealso another great example of
someone coming into the alcoholindustry with a fresh
(11:00):
perspective of what you've, whatyou've done at drinks and even
other ventures.
But you know, it's exactly whatyou said when I started seeing
how many wineries are operatingon, you know, wine direct, and I
won't go into other other namesbut even more antedated
e-commerce platforms and pointsof some of the points of sale.
(11:21):
I don't know how the employeesdon't quit right away.
I mean, it's like I came in, Iwas like, why isn't everyone on
shopify plus?
You know it, this doesn't makethis doesn't make sense.
Um, and there's certain thingsthat everybody needs.
But yeah, it's.
It's that fresh outsideperspective.
Because I, I do still feel thatthe wine industry is, you, you
(11:41):
know, 10, 15 years behindadopting the most available
technology.
You know, historically.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
There's definitely been a an approach within the
industry where a lot of the techis built specifically for, you
know, alcohol and I feel likemaybe that's the way that it had
to have been done, you know, 10years ago, even five years ago,
but inherently that's limitingbecause there's only so many
(12:09):
wineries Whatever the number isnow maybe it's 13,000.
There's only so many breweries,there's only so many
distilleries, especially in inthe us.
So these companies that arecreating these, this tech that
does you know, let's say, emailand sms marketing, or does you
know commerce, or does you knowinsert function here are
(12:30):
inherently capped because theyhave a defined sort of total
addressable market that's nevergoing to increase beyond a
certain size.
So they're never going to have4,000 engineers because the
business revenue will never beable to support that.
And I think the ecosystem ingeneral when it comes to
commerce is moving towards oneor two absolutely just giant
(12:53):
platforms, that other companieswho can also be pretty sizable.
I mean, if you look at some ofthe Shopify app companies out
there, you're looking at 500employees, 1,000 plus person
companies, but then they buildadditional or specific
functionality into that platformand then sort of the rising
(13:15):
tide lifts all boats.
So I feel like that's sort ofthe headwinds that the alcohol
industry has been facing, andthen, up until the partnership
between Trinkston Shopify andthen also some businesses like
CBI, sort of taking that firstleap to work with the shopify,
there was a hesitancy.
(13:36):
Uh to you know, go over to aplatform that wasn't built
specifically for alcohol,because for the last 30 years,
people have been hearing timeand time again that you know
it's not safe for you, it's notthis, it's not that it needs to
be special just for you, andwhich isn't the case and I think
leads itself to.
You know how consumers are, arelike looking for different
(13:59):
things in the wine world todaythan they are 30 years ago, and
especially you know the youngergenerations that, like digitally
native consumer, expects ashopping experience online
that's robust and streamlined,but that's also also integrated
with the in-store experience,which I think ultimately is one
(14:20):
of the unique components of yourbusiness is that you have both.
You have that in-store tastingexperience, but you have the
online as well.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Example yeah, and how do you own businesses on
multiple tiers and stay 100%compliant?
Is is is also something we'velearned over four years.
Um, but yeah, it's like yousaid.
We set out to ultimately be amarketing platform, uh, for both
the region brand and the samplebrand.
So in your intro, you describedus as like kind of our main
(14:50):
tagline of you know, we're hereto change how wine is
experienced and shared.
Well, we're doing that in a.
Wine is experienced and shared.
Well, we're doing that in abrick and mortar format with
region, and then we're doingthat remotely with sample and
what we set out for both brands.
It was funny as we startedregion and then sample emerged
out of region, the same coreproblems that were defined in,
(15:13):
you know, the state of theindustry, core problems that
were defined in the state of theindustry wine report in 2019,
all the way to the same problemswe're addressing in a physical
product versus a brick andmortar space held true, and it
was a nice evolution of how dowe take our in-store experience
home with you with sample andreally, I think and I'd love to
(15:34):
get your opinion too on both ofthese but we set out to set a
solve a set of problems forproducers but also solve a set
of problems for the consumer,and we can like go into either
of those.
But for the producer end, youknow, traditionally the tasting
room is where that bond, thatrelationship, is formed.
(15:58):
They fall in love with yourbrand and want to join the club,
want to make a purchase, wantto continue supporting what you
have, and the key there isgetting them to your tasting
room, where in Sonoma Countyit's an average of 1.5 tasting
room visits a day.
So if there's how many 400 pluswineries, how are you that one
winery that they go to?
(16:18):
And in an emerging tech world,people are already had their
Airbnb planned out, they'realready pre-mapping, you know
the route that they're going todrive that day or the driver
they're going to have, and theymight never know about the
hidden gems that are in RussianRiver Valley or there.
So what we set out to do withregion was to become a platform,
(16:39):
to be a marketing platform or acentral hub for those stories,
for those medium, small sizeproducers who either couldn't
afford their tasting own tastingroom or wanted to have an urban
presence from their more remotetasting room.
To have an urban presence fromtheir more remote tasting room.
That's what we set out to solveand to offer an experience
that's very approachable.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
While doing that, what are some of the
conversations that you've hadwith producers over the past
couple of years as you've beenbuilding region?
The, you know, is the pitch tothem that you know they're able
to get in front of more of thesecustomers, and then that
there's a you know theydiscovered, they discover the
(17:24):
winery in the region tastingroom and then they, you know,
ultimately will end up becominga customer of you know X, y or Z
winery.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, it's meant to be a starting point or an
introduction to that brand andas a retailer, we're just
advertising our own products.
We're not specificallyfacilitating any tastings or
wine club member signups.
But again, we're free tofeature our own products that
(17:53):
we're selling in store andreally want to tell that story
of what is Sonoma County, whatis SLO County have to offer.
And, as you mentioned, a lot ofour conversations with
producers producers aresearching for a solution like
this, a solution to oh my gosh,how do I raise 400, 500,000,
(18:13):
start my own tasting room?
Make that back over three yearsand how, you know, even though
I can start my own tasting room,how, how am I competing with an
experience?
How am I getting people there?
Because of the quantities andconcentrations of wineries in
these wine growing regions.
So, when you really look at itand from a if you put your hat
(18:35):
on, from a producer'sperspective, 88% of small
producers produce 5,000 cases orless.
So when you're producing thatamount of volume and getting
started, you don't, you don'treally have the extra income to
to pull this off um, viably inthe first year and 78 of direct
(18:56):
consumer sales for mostproducers right now start in the
tasting room.
So it's it's really, reallyhard to get going.
So the concept of region wasvery well received, um by those
initial.
You know, in 2019 we had 25winery partners coming in and we
were licensed and operated in acompletely different way than
we do right now.
Coming in and we were licensedand operated in a completely
(19:18):
different way than we do rightnow, but still that holds true,
as we have over 35, what we callwinery partners, just wineries
that we purchased from right nowthat are featured at each
region location.
And that is still holding trueand still relevant of how can we
compliantly, crossiantly, crosspromote, how can we, like you
mentioned, with Shopify you knowrising um, rising tide lifts
(19:41):
all boats you know how can wework together in a three-tiered
system, compliantly Uh, I thinkthe legal side of me is also
coming out here trying to, youknow, asterisk compliantly but
um, work together and solve thisproblem that so many producers
are facing.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, uh, I think the uh there's just be a big you
know asterisk with anything, umwhen it comes to, uh, compliance
, um, but I am by no means thecompliance expert here.
Uh, on our end, uh, nor do Ihave any interest in ever
becoming that.
Uh, it's, it's.
Nor do I have any interest inever becoming that.
It's quite the beast.
(20:18):
You mentioned 78% of DTC salesstart in the tasting room, and I
think that's a unique thingopportunity that wineries have
like wineries themselves, butalso businesses like yours to
capitalize on the fact that youhave that retail location that
maybe a traditional Shopifybrand that I'm used to working
(20:41):
with does not, whether it'sshoes or coffee or skincare and
beauty, whatever it may be.
They don't have the location andthey also don't have the
tourism component to it.
I feel, though, that, at leastfrom my visits to Napa,
especially the one I did lastsummer, while a lot of the sales
(21:03):
originate in the tasting room,there could be a lot more sales
coming after that tasting roomvisit happens than is currently
occurring, because the follow-upcommunication isn't there, the
experience post visit to thewinery isn't really there, and
it just feels like such anuntapped opportunity that only
(21:25):
wineries and businesses likeyours are set up to tap into
because you have the tourism,because you have the tasting
room location.
Now it's just let's add on thatcommerce component.
So when we have these peoplewho visit and a lot of people
will only visit Napa once intheir life let's capture them as
a customer and then when theygo back to wherever it is
(21:45):
Chicago, west Virginia, florida,insert state here we can have
them on our club for five or 10years or we can continue to
market to them thereafter viaemail or text or direct mail.
There's not a lot of that beingdone yet and even I signed up
for all the lists when I went tothese various wineries that
(22:07):
wineries owned by publiccompanies, all the way down to
small mom and pop shops, butpretty much across the board.
It was not a cohesiveexperience after that first
purchase.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
We wanted to go even a littlebit deeper or dive into that a
little bit more.
With what we're trying to solveat Vineshift with region and
sample, how are you also makingthat purchase approachable,
whether it's the in-storeexperience or at home, where I'm
(22:40):
sure on those winery visits youknow that you went to in Napa,
um, that it was a, it's a, wasit where they'd like traditional
wine tasting experiences whereyou had a, you had a flight, you
sat through flight and thenthere's an upsell or a call to
action, whether it's a card orthe staff came out to you and
said, well, your flight's freeif you sign up for the wine club
(23:02):
.
And that's still a great upselland always will be.
But were they traditionalexperiences like that?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, they were.
They were traditional for themost part, but for the ones
where, you know, maybe I justbought one bottle, um, I haven't
heard from them again, likesince that purchase, which to me
is mind boggling, because Ilike some of them and frankly, I
can't even remember what someof them are at this point,
because there was never that,you know, follow up.
Hey, it's been a month sinceyour visit.
(23:30):
Do you want to, you know,reorder what you had purchased
during the tasting um?
You know, things like that, Ithink, are really low hanging
fruit because the in like mostI'd say actually all of them all
the tasting room experienceswere phenomenal, like they, you
know they.
They really know what they'redoing when it comes to managing
(23:51):
that one to four hour window ofwhatever experience it may be
and really immersing you in thehistory and what makes the wine
different and unique.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's just not being translated online in an
effective manner yet, yeah, andit's only expanding in time
there, right, like I don'tremember the numbers on it, but
it's, it's like every year thattasting room experience per
winery is growing longer andlonger.
It's not, it's no longer threewines, it's five wines, now it's
seven wines.
And when they have you there,they're doing such a great job
(24:23):
and focusing so much of how dowe keep you here?
And also, how do we apply thatpressure of that sale at the end
?
I mean, there's wineries thatdo that flawlessly and there's
wineries or their wine does thespeaking for them, right?
They don't have to, you know,have that sales process around
it and you're there on propertyand the property is a sale, a
(24:43):
sales tool as well, um, butultimately, what we're also
trying to do is is the, theportions of tasting?
Um, so that the smaller you knowhow.
What is the minimum barrier ofentry that I can have to have
you taste this wine and see ifyou like it?
But also, I think, the mainmind shift that we try to base
(25:06):
all of our decisions offers howare we putting the control of
the tasting experience in thehands of the consumer, whether
it's in store or at home?
A lot of people come intoregion and just have a glass of
wine and do emails and leave.
It's that approachable.
It should feel like a breweryrather than the other way around
(25:29):
.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, I think making it as easily accessible as
possible, especially for ayounger and younger consumer, is
important because, at leasthistorically, I would think of
wine as sort of more upper class, a little bit more hoity-toity,
(25:53):
for lack of a better word.
Not necessarily, oh, like abrewery, like you know, it's fun
, you can go hang out, it's notso you know white glove, you
know you have to smell.
There's all these differentvarietals, there's a lot of
stuff that goes into it.
But I feel like there's beenquite a movement towards sort of
(26:14):
demystifying wine and alsomaking it more approachable.
And that's important too,because younger consumers are
not drinking wine in the waythat they know that, like you
know what the terms are hereLike a Gen X or even a
millennial is drinking wine, youknow Gen Z is looking at a lot
(26:37):
of alternative options in themarketplace, whether it's you
know packaging, which I thinkyou know, you're obviously at
the forefront of looking atdifferent packaging options, but
there's you know RTDs as well,not to even get into seltzers.
You know low-cal, no sugar, zeroalcohol.
You know alternatives with CBDor even cannabis drinks.
(27:01):
I don't live in Californiaanymore, but when I was there
there was a bunch of people whowould go to parties and they're
having a you know a cannabis RTDinstead of a you know a beer or
wine or whatever it may be.
But I think a lot of that leadsback to the consumer experience
(27:22):
, because if you look at thebrands that are successful right
now with Gen Z or that youngermillennial, some of them are
wine as well.
But it comes down to themarketing, the online customer
experience.
It's not necessarily the productcategory.
I think that's, you know,deterring people who are younger
from drinking wine.
I think it's more so.
You know the way that thesebusinesses are set up.
You know the seltzers aretapping into influencer
(27:45):
marketing and TikTok and youknow some of the wine in a can.
Brands like Nomadica or Bev oryou know Sample are on Shopify
which, frankly, is, you know,night and day difference from
other commerce experiences andis what somebody like my age is
expecting when they purchasefrom a brand.
(28:05):
So I think as technologyprogresses, we'll see more and
more of that adoption in theyounger consumer as well.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, I think even today, even not the younger, but
just even above millennialsright, they're on social media
as well.
Their attention span is alsodropping and everyone's
searching for, you know, healthyand authentic choices.
And it's just like you saidwhen you talked about NA beers
(28:35):
or seltzers or RTD cocktailsright, when people want
something, they want to knowfull transparency, what is
inside this and who made this.
You know and that hasn't alwaysbeen there in the wine industry
that some of that transparencywas purposefully blocked to have
(28:55):
the allure to have the mysteryaround the wine there.
But also, it was just, it wasnever necessary.
It's evolved so much over thelast few years, so much over the
last few years.
But that's why you know allthese um, emerging competitors
to wine, or you know emerging,whether it's cannabis or uh, you
(29:16):
know hard liquor and cocktailsbeing thought of as a more
healthy choice, like you said,um, but it's it's.
It's through those choices that,um, really, I think there's an
opera, there's still anopportunity, because when, uh,
today, that when today, thecurrent generations, millennials
, do buy a bottle of wine orhave a glass of wine, they do
(29:37):
tend to lean towards the higherend spectrum.
They tend to.
You know, if I'm only going tohave a glass of wine.
I want the best glass of wineto.
If you can look at the trendsof cocktail bar success and the
explosion of high-end cocktailsand cocktail bars, people would
rather go to a nice bar, have anice experience with one really
expensive cocktail, than threewell drinks you know at the bar.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
That's kind of what today's, that's evident in the
trends that that I see, yeah,one of the most shocking things
to me entering the alcoholindustry is private label at
some of these massive retailersand how pervasive that is and
that customers really don'tunderstand that.
(30:24):
And it's not necessarily a badthing.
But some of your favoritebrands at your store are
probably not real in thetraditional sense.
They're not coming from thewinery that's represented on the
label, because the label isjust a label, which is
ultimately how most consumersshop.
But if you were to go into aTrader Joe's, I almost guarantee
(30:46):
that maybe there's 100 Italianproducts, maybe there's 100
Italian products, maybe it'sonly 20 products, but each
product has five differentlabels on it to try and appeal
to a different type of customerat a different price point or
whatever it may be.
That was pretty shocking to meas well.
So I think it's really coolwhat Region and Sample are doing
with going directly to thosesmall producers and highlighting
(31:09):
them in a way that they're notgoing to be able to get that
exposure through an outlet likea Trader Joe's.
They're not big enough and forthe consumer who cares about
where their product is comingfrom and wants to know the
history and the backstory, it'sa really unique experience and
opportunity for them.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, we all know the e-commerce businesses that have
tried to solve or tried to tapinto the next generation of wine
drinkers or just do somethingdifferent in wine and they've
taken that approach to it, rightLike, in a sense, they've.
They've said, ok yeah, we areconsumers and smart enough to
(31:47):
tell that this is essentially amade up winery and that's going
to catch up to everybody in thewine industry in my opinion.
And there's a place for WhiteLabel and, man, there's some
awesome wines at Trader Joe'sactually, if you look at who's
actually selling bulk to themand what they're doing.
So I'm not saying that there'snot amazing wines and also what
(32:12):
white label or private labelbrings down the price point
that's accessible to theconsumer in the market.
But for us it's sort of likevinyl records.
I know that there's a weirdparallel to make, but everybody
thought that records were goingto go away.
But why are records so popularagain now?
(32:32):
It's because it's tangible.
It's something that I can touch.
I feel like I'm supporting theartist.
It's, it's uh, it feels moreraw and authentic to still have
a vinyl record and that's.
You still can't replace thepeople if if you're in the wine
industry and you're trying toreplace the story and the people
(32:54):
and manufacture that.
And I totally understand thatsome people are trying to do
that to just work through thethree-tier system.
You know, like it's, it'sprobably the easiest way in
certain aspects to work throughthe three-tiered system to
eliminate that story and brandand authenticity.
But there's also a way to do itcompliantly and that's what
(33:16):
today's consumer is looking forand that's really where the
retention is going to come fromin the long run.
Right, you might lure them intoa flash purchase or you might
lure them into a one-timepurchase, but are they sticking
around?
Are they continuing to findvalue in your product over time?
What is the LTV?
It's really hard to have an LTVwhen there's no real brands.
(33:39):
In what?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
you're selling.
I think the Trader Joe'sshopper is more the Trader Joe's
shopper than they are whateverthe wine is, Whereas if you were
to go into, maybe like aRalph's, you're purchasing wine
that you're more of like apurchaser of that wine than
necessarily like a Ralph's youknow a fish came out of.
So there's obviously some willfor lap and whatnot.
(34:00):
But I want to ask a couple offun questions before we tie off
here and so and so, uh, ifyou're ready, uh, I'll start
with the.
Uh, I'll start with the firstone.
So what is your favorite wineever?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Um well, I'll just say the first one that popped
into my mind uh, it's devilproof, malbec.
Uh, by Aperture Cellars inHealdsburg.
That is just an awesome Malbecand a really great story and
branding as well, but just anawesome Malbec.
So that's the first wine thatpopped into my mind.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Okay, this is how I'm going to continue to build out
my cellars through thesepodcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, aperture is great.
Jesse Katz is a great winemaker with a lot of history in
the area, but what they're doingin Aperture is really setting
the tone for Healdsburg, in myopinion.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Awesome.
And then second question is ifyou had to pick anyone to share
a glass of wine with, who wouldit be?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
oh, um, wow, um.
I'll also just go through whatpopped into my mind first.
I uh, um.
A while ago I saw elon musk onthe top of the gigafactory,
having a glass of whiskey andmaking s'mores in an open fire
on top of the Gigafactory, andI'd love to be there and have a
(35:37):
glass of wine with him and pickhis brain.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's a good choice.
There's a lot going on in thatbrain, I think, so it would be a
very interesting conversationand, hopefully, a healthy pour
for that glass of wine.
Oh, that's awesome.
Um, that's all that we have fortoday.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
Um, before we hop off, can youlet people know where they can
find you?
Uh, online region sample.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, Uh, please follow us at drink region or
drink sample uh, on Instagram,and that's the same as our
website, so you can go to drinkregioncom if you want to visit
any of the locations or drinksample if you want to try out,
sample or subscribe.
Every quarter we release adifferent wine growing kit from
a new wine growing region.
So you'll get shipped a capsulelike this with seven glasses of
(36:27):
wine inside of it.
You can book a tasting, there'srecipe pairings, watch a video
from the winemaker and even buya bottle if you like it.
So, um, uh, really appreciateyou, Brandon, taking the time
today and having us on it.
Um, look forward to talkingagain.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you for coming on.
Uh, for everybody listening.
Uh, as always, brandon Moroso,you can find us at drinks, as
always.
This is Brandon Moroso.
You can find us at drinkscomand we will see you next time.
Hey everyone, thank you for listening to the
Drinkscom podcast the businessof online alcohol.
I'm your host, brandon Amoroso,and today I'm talking with
Johan Eid, who's the founder andowner of Region and Sample
(00:21):
businesses, whose goal is toredefine how wine is experienced
and shared.
Thanks for coming on the showtoday.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thanks for having me, Brandon.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So, before we dive into some of the topics that we
want to cover today, can yougive everybody just a quick
background on what region andsample are, as well as some of
your background too?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Well, I'm Yohan, founder of Region.
Along with Kerry Theodorff, westarted Region and Sample back
in 2019.
Before that, I was an engineerat Cal Poly and had a senior
project that introduced me topatent law, and so I took the
bar and practiced patent law forfour or five years before
(01:03):
starting Region and Sample, andso definitely didn't see myself
as an engineering studententering the wine industry, but
saw a problem, and what wasgoing to be a side business now
has snowballed into two parallelbrands under vine shifting and
region and sample and, like yousaid is, we have two brands
(01:23):
under the entity.
We can get into that more, butthat's a little bit of my
background, coming fromengineering and then over into
the wine industry.
I grew up in Russian RiverValley, always surrounded by
wine, always made a Pinot Noirwith my dad in Sebastopol,
california, but it was neverreally my focus of is this going
to be a career path or not, andit wasn't until we started.
(01:46):
The side hustle of region is Ithought was going to be a
weekend business.
Um, that really, uh, found sometraction in market and hit a
hit, a chord, I think, with withsome of what, uh, what today's
consumer is looking for and why.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And how did you ultimately decide to make that
leap from you know law over tothe wine side of the world?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, I, like I said I thought I could pull off both,
and then COVID made thatdecision really clear for me.
I mean, I put my name on thelease and personally guaranteed
the lease in the end of 2019.
And we were going to be doingbuild out of, you know, between
January to June of 2020.
And everybody knows whathappens in March of 2020.
(02:35):
And at that point I said I haveto make this work, we have to
somehow open our doors.
You know, we had people come in, pour wine out of the machines
with their mask and then tastein the parking lot, and then a
few, you know, we had peoplecome in, pour wine out of the
machines with their mask andthen taste in the parking lot
and then a few months later wehad all the fires.
So, um, it was a veryinteresting first year, but it
wasn't a.
I was trying to do both andthen life came back and said
(02:58):
Nope, you're, you're only goingto do this, this one path.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
It's interesting how sometimes we get that nudge or
push in one direction or theother.
I feel like you know personally, you know at a certain point
you can only balance so manythings and there's a lot of you
know power in having onesingular focus and being able to
expand on that when it comes toyou know why you wanted to
(03:27):
start region and sample to beginwith, and sort of which one
came first.
Was it region, was it sample?
And how has that evolved overtime?
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Yeah, it was definitely region.
Sample was a fun idea thatregion could do to take, you
know, single serve glasses homewith you from the physical
stores.
Um, but really it was, it wasregion.
And and what got me excited tostart region was, uh, in my
hometown there was a developmentcalled the Barlow.
Um, it's sort of like tin cityand Paso Robles, if you're
(03:58):
familiar with tin city and thatconcept.
Um, but it's meant to be amaker marketplace where there's
three or four breweries CostaBrown was in there, which is a
very renowned Pinot Noirproducer from Russian River
Valley and it's now owned byDuckhorn but there's three or
(04:18):
four restaurants and therereally wasn't a wine bar or wine
bar aspect to it.
And I watched my hometown kindof be transformed by this
development and you know,ultimately it started from I
wanted to put all the lawoffices, or at least have a law
office, in the Barlow, becauseit was, it was the spot to be,
and I thought how could I putthe law offices in the back and
(04:41):
some sort of wine bar concept inthe front?
And in that process we Istumbled onto the state of the
wine industry reports by SiliconValley bank in 20, that would
have been the 2020 or 2019.
Yeah, no, the 2019 state of theindustry report.
And there was some, somecomments and some trends that
(05:03):
were in there that were reallypolarizing to me.
Um, and you know, one of them,you know from my home County is,
you know, eight years in a row,tourism was up before COVID, um
to Sonoma County, but also forsix or seven years in a row,
tasting and visitation was down.
So how is this possible Ifwe're one of the fastest growing
(05:27):
wine growing regions, such adestination of travel?
Why is tasting or visitationgoing down?
And what is changing in today'sconsumer?
And really it was those SiliconValley state of the wine
industry reports that really gotme excited, or I felt that I
maybe saw something here thatwas evolving in the industry and
(05:50):
what the consumer wants andthat, to me, was okay.
How can we do a concept in theBarlow that's addressing that?
Speaker 1 (05:58):
And is this your first foray into running your
own business?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
So I would say that we had, before I had, my patent
guys, which was like a littleboutique firm where a few
different patent agents andmyself teamed up to do our own
business and just sort of beboutique patent consultation and
patent prosecution fordifferent inventors and small
companies.
(06:22):
So that was technically thefirst business that I you know I
had built the website for andfigured out how to do Google
business ads and we did overflowwork for other law firms.
Um, and before that, um, I howI got into patent law was, um,
my best friend and I love to gofishing and we fished in college
so we invented a touchscreensatellite fishing scale that
(06:46):
turned into a patent and then weended up licensing those
patents where now that scalewill be the official scale of
major league fishing coming outnext year.
So it was a.
You know, that's how I got intopatent law originally was we
had a, we were, we were collegekids who were trying to solve a
problem in the fishing industryand ended up inventing something
(07:07):
.
And then I paid somebody $450and $750 an hour to write a
patent and uh and uh, thatthat's what sparked my interest
is I was like how are you know Ican become a patent agent.
These guys are making what and,uh, I really liked it.
I liked the technical aspect ofit of how does this work?
How did they creatively draftthe claims?
(07:28):
I already knew how to model itand do the drawing, so it was a
natural path and I figured if Idid R&D engineering or
mechanical engineering anywhere,whoever would hire me would
also find it valuable that Ialso had passed the patent bar
and could be in-house counselfor them?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Is there any application of that patent
experience that you've takenover to region or sample?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Absolutely For sample .
We have four design patents andtwo pending, one granted
utility application and some PCTapplications as well, and we
can get into more of setting upa basis of what region and
sample are.
But really on sample was ourdigital tasting experience.
(08:19):
Now we have that whole.
You can actually patent amethod of doing business.
So we patented that entiredigital interaction from those
wine sampling kits onto um, ontoa purchasing platform.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Got it.
That's a.
It's an interesting sort ofoverlap there between the two
businesses, but you definitelychose, you know, one of the
hardest industries to jump into.
Did you understand or at least,Nope, not at all Overwhelming
complexity that goes intorunning an alcohol business?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
No, I joke now that I should.
You know, I feel like now I docompliance law because of how
much we've had to learn andwe're trying to push the
boundaries in the wine industry.
So really trying to push thethree-tiered system to see what
(09:18):
is Innovation doesn't reallymesh with the three tiers at all
, and so that was probably ahuge learning curve and I
wouldn't recommend that anyonedo a startup in alcohol at all.
It was probably one of thehardest parts, if not the
hardest part, of starting out,because every time we felt that
first year or two we wanted todo something, Council came back
and said, yeah, you can't dothat, or that's a great idea and
(09:42):
everyone would love to do that,but you can't do that.
And even from the brick andmortar perspective of the
locations and what we're tryingto do and pull off, there we it
was.
Yeah, I was very underestimatedthe compliance and alcohol
complexity.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, it is.
It's definitely shocking foroutsiders entering the industry,
but I think it's a good thingas well, outsiders coming into
the industry, because it pushesthe envelope a bit more.
And you ask those questions youknow, like why the hell is this
the way that it needs to bedone, or why are all these sort
of roadblocks in place?
And I feel like you know theoutsiders are also a little bit
(10:30):
more uh, confident or, um,willing in their ability to push
those boundaries versus tryingto stay within the lanes yeah,
it was.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I mean, it's probably because I'm I'm a very stubborn
norwegian and want to, you know, always find out the.
You know, it's the engineeringmindset of there's a problem,
like there's always a solution.
We're just not thinking aboutit.
What are we thinking about itwrong?
Or how are we thinking about itwrong?
And I think that you, you arealso another great example of
someone coming into the alcoholindustry with a fresh
(11:00):
perspective of what you've, whatyou've done at drinks and even
other ventures.
But you know, it's exactly whatyou said when I started seeing
how many wineries are operatingon, you know, wine direct, and I
won't go into other other namesbut even more antedated
e-commerce platforms and pointsof some of the points of sale.
(11:21):
I don't know how the employeesdon't quit right away.
I mean, it's like I came in, Iwas like, why isn't everyone on
shopify plus?
You know it, this doesn't makethis doesn't make sense.
Um, and there's certain thingsthat everybody needs.
But yeah, it's.
It's that fresh outsideperspective.
Because I, I do still feel thatthe wine industry is, you, you
(11:41):
know, 10, 15 years behindadopting the most available
technology.
You know, historically.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
There's definitely been a an approach within the
industry where a lot of the techis built specifically for, you
know, alcohol and I feel likemaybe that's the way that it had
to have been done, you know, 10years ago, even five years ago,
but inherently that's limitingbecause there's only so many
(12:09):
wineries Whatever the number isnow maybe it's 13,000.
There's only so many breweries,there's only so many
distilleries, especially in inthe us.
So these companies that arecreating these, this tech that
does you know, let's say, emailand sms marketing, or does you
know commerce, or does you knowinsert function here are
(12:30):
inherently capped because theyhave a defined sort of total
addressable market that's nevergoing to increase beyond a
certain size.
So they're never going to have4,000 engineers because the
business revenue will never beable to support that.
And I think the ecosystem ingeneral when it comes to
commerce is moving towards oneor two absolutely just giant
(12:53):
platforms, that other companieswho can also be pretty sizable.
I mean, if you look at some ofthe Shopify app companies out
there, you're looking at 500employees, 1,000 plus person
companies, but then they buildadditional or specific
functionality into that platformand then sort of the rising
(13:15):
tide lifts all boats.
So I feel like that's sort ofthe headwinds that the alcohol
industry has been facing, andthen, up until the partnership
between Trinkston Shopify andthen also some businesses like
CBI, sort of taking that firstleap to work with the shopify,
there was a hesitancy.
(13:36):
Uh to you know, go over to aplatform that wasn't built
specifically for alcohol,because for the last 30 years,
people have been hearing timeand time again that you know
it's not safe for you, it's notthis, it's not that it needs to
be special just for you, andwhich isn't the case and I think
leads itself to.
You know how consumers are, arelike looking for different
(13:59):
things in the wine world todaythan they are 30 years ago, and
especially you know the youngergenerations that, like digitally
native consumer, expects ashopping experience online
that's robust and streamlined,but that's also also integrated
with the in-store experience,which I think ultimately is one
(14:20):
of the unique components of yourbusiness is that you have both.
You have that in-store tastingexperience, but you have the
online as well.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Example yeah, and how do you own businesses on
multiple tiers and stay 100%compliant?
Is is is also something we'velearned over four years.
Um, but yeah, it's like yousaid.
We set out to ultimately be amarketing platform, uh, for both
the region brand and the samplebrand.
So in your intro, you describedus as like kind of our main
(14:50):
tagline of you know, we're hereto change how wine is
experienced and shared.
Well, we're doing that in a.
Wine is experienced and shared.
Well, we're doing that in abrick and mortar format with
region, and then we're doingthat remotely with sample and
what we set out for both brands.
It was funny as we startedregion and then sample emerged
out of region, the same coreproblems that were defined in,
(15:13):
you know, the state of theindustry, core problems that
were defined in the state of theindustry wine report in 2019,
all the way to the same problemswe're addressing in a physical
product versus a brick andmortar space held true, and it
was a nice evolution of how dowe take our in-store experience
home with you with sample andreally, I think and I'd love to
(15:34):
get your opinion too on both ofthese but we set out to set a
solve a set of problems forproducers but also solve a set
of problems for the consumer,and we can like go into either
of those.
But for the producer end, youknow, traditionally the tasting
room is where that bond, thatrelationship, is formed.
(15:58):
They fall in love with yourbrand and want to join the club,
want to make a purchase, wantto continue supporting what you
have, and the key there isgetting them to your tasting
room, where in Sonoma Countyit's an average of 1.5 tasting
room visits a day.
So if there's how many 400 pluswineries, how are you that one
winery that they go to?
(16:18):
And in an emerging tech world,people are already had their
Airbnb planned out, they'realready pre-mapping, you know
the route that they're going todrive that day or the driver
they're going to have, and theymight never know about the
hidden gems that are in RussianRiver Valley or there.
So what we set out to do withregion was to become a platform,
(16:39):
to be a marketing platform or acentral hub for those stories,
for those medium, small sizeproducers who either couldn't
afford their tasting own tastingroom or wanted to have an urban
presence from their more remotetasting room.
To have an urban presence fromtheir more remote tasting room.
That's what we set out to solveand to offer an experience
that's very approachable.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
While doing that, what are some of the
conversations that you've hadwith producers over the past
couple of years as you've beenbuilding region?
The, you know, is the pitch tothem that you know they're able
to get in front of more of thesecustomers, and then that
there's a you know theydiscovered, they discover the
(17:24):
winery in the region tastingroom and then they, you know,
ultimately will end up becominga customer of you know X, y or Z
winery.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, it's meant to be a starting point or an
introduction to that brand andas a retailer, we're just
advertising our own products.
We're not specificallyfacilitating any tastings or
wine club member signups.
But again, we're free tofeature our own products that
(17:53):
we're selling in store andreally want to tell that story
of what is Sonoma County, whatis SLO County have to offer.
And, as you mentioned, a lot ofour conversations with
producers producers aresearching for a solution like
this, a solution to oh my gosh,how do I raise 400, 500,000,
(18:13):
start my own tasting room?
Make that back over three yearsand how, you know, even though
I can start my own tasting room,how, how am I competing with an
experience?
How am I getting people there?
Because of the quantities andconcentrations of wineries in
these wine growing regions.
So, when you really look at itand from a if you put your hat
(18:35):
on, from a producer'sperspective, 88% of small
producers produce 5,000 cases orless.
So when you're producing thatamount of volume and getting
started, you don't, you don'treally have the extra income to
to pull this off um, viably inthe first year and 78 of direct
(18:56):
consumer sales for mostproducers right now start in the
tasting room.
So it's it's really, reallyhard to get going.
So the concept of region wasvery well received, um by those
initial.
You know, in 2019 we had 25winery partners coming in and we
were licensed and operated in acompletely different way than
we do right now.
Coming in and we were licensedand operated in a completely
(19:18):
different way than we do rightnow, but still that holds true,
as we have over 35, what we callwinery partners, just wineries
that we purchased from right nowthat are featured at each
region location.
And that is still holding trueand still relevant of how can we
compliantly, crossiantly, crosspromote, how can we, like you
mentioned, with Shopify you knowrising um, rising tide lifts
(19:41):
all boats you know how can wework together in a three-tiered
system, compliantly Uh, I thinkthe legal side of me is also
coming out here trying to, youknow, asterisk compliantly but
um, work together and solve thisproblem that so many producers
are facing.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, uh, I think the uh there's just be a big you
know asterisk with anything, umwhen it comes to, uh, compliance
, um, but I am by no means thecompliance expert here.
Uh, on our end, uh, nor do Ihave any interest in ever
becoming that.
Uh, it's, it's.
Nor do I have any interest inever becoming that.
It's quite the beast.
(20:18):
You mentioned 78% of DTC salesstart in the tasting room, and I
think that's a unique thingopportunity that wineries have
like wineries themselves, butalso businesses like yours to
capitalize on the fact that youhave that retail location that
maybe a traditional Shopifybrand that I'm used to working
(20:41):
with does not, whether it'sshoes or coffee or skincare and
beauty, whatever it may be.
They don't have the location andthey also don't have the
tourism component to it.
I feel, though, that, at leastfrom my visits to Napa,
especially the one I did lastsummer, while a lot of the sales
(21:03):
originate in the tasting room,there could be a lot more sales
coming after that tasting roomvisit happens than is currently
occurring, because the follow-upcommunication isn't there, the
experience post visit to thewinery isn't really there, and
it just feels like such anuntapped opportunity that only
(21:25):
wineries and businesses likeyours are set up to tap into
because you have the tourism,because you have the tasting
room location.
Now it's just let's add on thatcommerce component.
So when we have these peoplewho visit and a lot of people
will only visit Napa once intheir life let's capture them as
a customer and then when theygo back to wherever it is
(21:45):
Chicago, west Virginia, florida,insert state here we can have
them on our club for five or 10years or we can continue to
market to them thereafter viaemail or text or direct mail.
There's not a lot of that beingdone yet and even I signed up
for all the lists when I went tothese various wineries that
(22:07):
wineries owned by publiccompanies, all the way down to
small mom and pop shops, butpretty much across the board.
It was not a cohesiveexperience after that first
purchase.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
We wanted to go even a littlebit deeper or dive into that a
little bit more.
With what we're trying to solveat Vineshift with region and
sample, how are you also makingthat purchase approachable,
whether it's the in-storeexperience or at home, where I'm
(22:40):
sure on those winery visits youknow that you went to in Napa,
um, that it was a, it's a, wasit where they'd like traditional
wine tasting experiences whereyou had a, you had a flight, you
sat through flight and thenthere's an upsell or a call to
action, whether it's a card orthe staff came out to you and
said, well, your flight's freeif you sign up for the wine club
(23:02):
.
And that's still a great upselland always will be.
But were they traditionalexperiences like that?
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, they were.
They were traditional for themost part, but for the ones
where, you know, maybe I justbought one bottle, um, I haven't
heard from them again, likesince that purchase, which to me
is mind boggling, because Ilike some of them and frankly, I
can't even remember what someof them are at this point,
because there was never that,you know, follow up.
Hey, it's been a month sinceyour visit.
(23:30):
Do you want to, you know,reorder what you had purchased
during the tasting um?
You know, things like that, Ithink, are really low hanging
fruit because the in like mostI'd say actually all of them all
the tasting room experienceswere phenomenal, like they, you
know they.
They really know what they'redoing when it comes to managing
(23:51):
that one to four hour window ofwhatever experience it may be
and really immersing you in thehistory and what makes the wine
different and unique.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
It's just not being translated online in an
effective manner yet, yeah, andit's only expanding in time
there, right, like I don'tremember the numbers on it, but
it's, it's like every year thattasting room experience per
winery is growing longer andlonger.
It's not, it's no longer threewines, it's five wines, now it's
seven wines.
And when they have you there,they're doing such a great job
(24:23):
and focusing so much of how dowe keep you here?
And also, how do we apply thatpressure of that sale at the end
?
I mean, there's wineries thatdo that flawlessly and there's
wineries or their wine does thespeaking for them, right?
They don't have to, you know,have that sales process around
it and you're there on propertyand the property is a sale, a
(24:43):
sales tool as well, um, butultimately, what we're also
trying to do is is the, theportions of tasting?
Um, so that the smaller you knowhow.
What is the minimum barrier ofentry that I can have to have
you taste this wine and see ifyou like it?
But also, I think, the mainmind shift that we try to base
(25:06):
all of our decisions offers howare we putting the control of
the tasting experience in thehands of the consumer, whether
it's in store or at home?
A lot of people come intoregion and just have a glass of
wine and do emails and leave.
It's that approachable.
It should feel like a breweryrather than the other way around
(25:29):
.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, I think making it as easily accessible as
possible, especially for ayounger and younger consumer, is
important because, at leasthistorically, I would think of
wine as sort of more upper class, a little bit more hoity-toity,
(25:53):
for lack of a better word.
Not necessarily, oh, like abrewery, like you know, it's fun
, you can go hang out, it's notso you know white glove, you
know you have to smell.
There's all these differentvarietals, there's a lot of
stuff that goes into it.
But I feel like there's beenquite a movement towards sort of
(26:14):
demystifying wine and alsomaking it more approachable.
And that's important too,because younger consumers are
not drinking wine in the waythat they know that, like you
know what the terms are hereLike a Gen X or even a
millennial is drinking wine, youknow Gen Z is looking at a lot
(26:37):
of alternative options in themarketplace, whether it's you
know packaging, which I thinkyou know, you're obviously at
the forefront of looking atdifferent packaging options, but
there's you know RTDs as well,not to even get into seltzers.
You know low-cal, no sugar, zeroalcohol.
You know alternatives with CBDor even cannabis drinks.
(27:01):
I don't live in Californiaanymore, but when I was there
there was a bunch of people whowould go to parties and they're
having a you know a cannabis RTDinstead of a you know a beer or
wine or whatever it may be.
But I think a lot of that leadsback to the consumer experience
(27:22):
, because if you look at thebrands that are successful right
now with Gen Z or that youngermillennial, some of them are
wine as well.
But it comes down to themarketing, the online customer
experience.
It's not necessarily the productcategory.
I think that's, you know,deterring people who are younger
from drinking wine.
I think it's more so.
You know the way that thesebusinesses are set up.
You know the seltzers aretapping into influencer
(27:45):
marketing and TikTok and youknow some of the wine in a can.
Brands like Nomadica or Bev oryou know Sample are on Shopify
which, frankly, is, you know,night and day difference from
other commerce experiences andis what somebody like my age is
expecting when they purchasefrom a brand.
(28:05):
So I think as technologyprogresses, we'll see more and
more of that adoption in theyounger consumer as well.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, I think even today, even not the younger, but
just even above millennialsright, they're on social media
as well.
Their attention span is alsodropping and everyone's
searching for, you know, healthyand authentic choices.
And it's just like you saidwhen you talked about NA beers
(28:35):
or seltzers or RTD cocktailsright, when people want
something, they want to knowfull transparency, what is
inside this and who made this.
You know and that hasn't alwaysbeen there in the wine industry
that some of that transparencywas purposefully blocked to have
(28:55):
the allure to have the mysteryaround the wine there.
But also, it was just, it wasnever necessary.
It's evolved so much over thelast few years, so much over the
last few years.
But that's why you know allthese um, emerging competitors
to wine, or you know emerging,whether it's cannabis or uh, you
(29:16):
know hard liquor and cocktailsbeing thought of as a more
healthy choice, like you said,um, but it's it's.
It's through those choices that,um, really, I think there's an
opera, there's still anopportunity, because when, uh,
today, that when today, thecurrent generations, millennials
, do buy a bottle of wine orhave a glass of wine, they do
(29:37):
tend to lean towards the higherend spectrum.
They tend to.
You know, if I'm only going tohave a glass of wine.
I want the best glass of wineto.
If you can look at the trendsof cocktail bar success and the
explosion of high-end cocktailsand cocktail bars, people would
rather go to a nice bar, have anice experience with one really
expensive cocktail, than threewell drinks you know at the bar.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
That's kind of what today's, that's evident in the
trends that that I see, yeah,one of the most shocking things
to me entering the alcoholindustry is private label at
some of these massive retailersand how pervasive that is and
that customers really don'tunderstand that.
(30:24):
And it's not necessarily a badthing.
But some of your favoritebrands at your store are
probably not real in thetraditional sense.
They're not coming from thewinery that's represented on the
label, because the label isjust a label, which is
ultimately how most consumersshop.
But if you were to go into aTrader Joe's, I almost guarantee
(30:46):
that maybe there's 100 Italianproducts, maybe there's 100
Italian products, maybe it'sonly 20 products, but each
product has five differentlabels on it to try and appeal
to a different type of customerat a different price point or
whatever it may be.
That was pretty shocking to meas well.
So I think it's really coolwhat Region and Sample are doing
with going directly to thosesmall producers and highlighting
(31:09):
them in a way that they're notgoing to be able to get that
exposure through an outlet likea Trader Joe's.
They're not big enough and forthe consumer who cares about
where their product is comingfrom and wants to know the
history and the backstory, it'sa really unique experience and
opportunity for them.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, we all know the e-commerce businesses that have
tried to solve or tried to tapinto the next generation of wine
drinkers or just do somethingdifferent in wine and they've
taken that approach to it, rightLike, in a sense, they've.
They've said, ok yeah, we areconsumers and smart enough to
(31:47):
tell that this is essentially amade up winery and that's going
to catch up to everybody in thewine industry in my opinion.
And there's a place for WhiteLabel and, man, there's some
awesome wines at Trader Joe'sactually, if you look at who's
actually selling bulk to themand what they're doing.
So I'm not saying that there'snot amazing wines and also what
(32:12):
white label or private labelbrings down the price point
that's accessible to theconsumer in the market.
But for us it's sort of likevinyl records.
I know that there's a weirdparallel to make, but everybody
thought that records were goingto go away.
But why are records so popularagain now?
(32:32):
It's because it's tangible.
It's something that I can touch.
I feel like I'm supporting theartist.
It's, it's uh, it feels moreraw and authentic to still have
a vinyl record and that's.
You still can't replace thepeople if if you're in the wine
industry and you're trying toreplace the story and the people
(32:54):
and manufacture that.
And I totally understand thatsome people are trying to do
that to just work through thethree-tier system.
You know, like it's, it'sprobably the easiest way in
certain aspects to work throughthe three-tiered system to
eliminate that story and brandand authenticity.
But there's also a way to do itcompliantly and that's what
(33:16):
today's consumer is looking forand that's really where the
retention is going to come fromin the long run.
Right, you might lure them intoa flash purchase or you might
lure them into a one-timepurchase, but are they sticking
around?
Are they continuing to findvalue in your product over time?
What is the LTV?
It's really hard to have an LTVwhen there's no real brands.
(33:39):
In what?
Speaker 1 (33:40):
you're selling.
I think the Trader Joe'sshopper is more the Trader Joe's
shopper than they are whateverthe wine is, Whereas if you were
to go into, maybe like aRalph's, you're purchasing wine
that you're more of like apurchaser of that wine than
necessarily like a Ralph's youknow a fish came out of.
So there's obviously some willfor lap and whatnot.
(34:00):
But I want to ask a couple offun questions before we tie off
here and so and so, uh, ifyou're ready, uh, I'll start
with the.
Uh, I'll start with the firstone.
So what is your favorite wineever?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Um well, I'll just say the first one that popped
into my mind uh, it's devilproof, malbec.
Uh, by Aperture Cellars inHealdsburg.
That is just an awesome Malbecand a really great story and
branding as well, but just anawesome Malbec.
So that's the first wine thatpopped into my mind.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Okay, this is how I'm going to continue to build out
my cellars through thesepodcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, aperture is great.
Jesse Katz is a great winemaker with a lot of history in
the area, but what they're doingin Aperture is really setting
the tone for Healdsburg, in myopinion.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Awesome.
And then second question is ifyou had to pick anyone to share
a glass of wine with, who wouldit be?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
oh, um, wow, um.
I'll also just go through whatpopped into my mind first.
I uh, um.
A while ago I saw elon musk onthe top of the gigafactory,
having a glass of whiskey andmaking s'mores in an open fire
on top of the Gigafactory, andI'd love to be there and have a
(35:37):
glass of wine with him and pickhis brain.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
That's a good choice.
There's a lot going on in thatbrain, I think, so it would be a
very interesting conversationand, hopefully, a healthy pour
for that glass of wine.
Oh, that's awesome.
Um, that's all that we have fortoday.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
Um, before we hop off, can youlet people know where they can
find you?
Uh, online region sample.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, Uh, please follow us at drink region or
drink sample uh, on Instagram,and that's the same as our
website, so you can go to drinkregioncom if you want to visit
any of the locations or drinksample if you want to try out,
sample or subscribe.
Every quarter we release adifferent wine growing kit from
a new wine growing region.
So you'll get shipped a capsulelike this with seven glasses of
(36:27):
wine inside of it.
You can book a tasting, there'srecipe pairings, watch a video
from the winemaker and even buya bottle if you like it.
So, um, uh, really appreciateyou, Brandon, taking the time
today and having us on it.
Um, look forward to talkingagain.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, of course.
Thank you for coming on.
Uh, for everybody listening.
Uh, as always, brandon Moroso,you can find us at drinks, as
always.
This is Brandon Moroso.
You can find us at drinkscomand we will see you next time.
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