Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome back to another episodeof the drive program.
(00:02):
My name is Tom driver, and todaymy guest is juice Bruns.
Juice is a rapper and he is adigital artist.
And as of just recently, he hasbegun releasing some of his
digital art as NFTs.
So me and Jews talk a lot aboutrap.
Why he got into rap, hiscreative process, things like
that.
And he's been making digital artfor a while.
(00:23):
So we talk about his style, whyhe went into digital arts and
his journey.
With creating both digital andnon-digital art.
And then just recently he isstarted putting out some of his
digital art projects as NFTs.
So we discuss, the NFT space,the web three space and how his
experience has been there sofar.
(00:43):
Because he is doing so manydifferent creative pursuits, we
were able to eventually juststart talking about art in
general and some interesting,cool conversations emerged from
that.
I'm going to provide a link toall of his stuff in the
description, but I will also beposting some of my favorite
songs of his on.
My social media accounts.
So check that out as well.
(01:04):
And then, would definitelyrecommend checking out his NFTs
uh, if you're into collectingNFTs, but yeah, really amazing
guy, awesome conversation.
I always just love linking upwith him.
He's got a great vibe and, I'mreally always impressed by his
dedication to his creativepursuits.
He's really committed and heputs out a lot of high quality
(01:25):
projects.
So please go support him in somecapacity guys.
All right.
Enjoy this conversation.
(02:18):
This is episode 39 of the dryprogram.
With guests juice Bruns.
(02:43):
Let's just catch up, man.
How have you been it's beenlike, I think three years or
something, man, like at leastthree years, maybe four.
Yeah.
No things are good, man.
Caroline, my girlfriend and I,we bought a house a year ago.
Yeah.
In Baltimore city in Hamden.
Congratulations man.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I graduated from Towson in 2020may, 2020, and I had a job lined
(03:05):
up with black and Decker.
I'd interned there the summerprior.
But it sounds like similar toyour situation with COVID the
department.
I was going to work in like 90%of them got laid off and they'd
like outsourced elsewhere.
So that kind of rattled me alittle bit.
I was like, what am I.
Going to do now is pretty set.
Like I didn't pursue any otherjob opportunity.
(03:27):
Cause I thought I had this inthe bag.
So then I kept just doing littlecommissions.
I could get painting, drawingsome logo design, whatever I
could really do.
And I kept applying to jobs,kept trying to find
opportunities like a more nineto five type based job and
nothing really worked out.
I would get to like the finalinterview, they'd go with a
(03:48):
different candidate.
So I was like, you know, I thinknow's the time I need to just
lock in to the art and the musicand give this a shot for like
the next year.
And if I can turn it intosomething and get some momentum,
I'm not even going to considernine to five jobs anymore and
just try and make this my livingand that's what's happened.
So it's been one year officiallysince I've been doing freelance
(04:10):
full-time as like my main sourceof.
Whoa.
That is awesome, man.
I didn't know that you were likeout of the nine to five life.
Yeah, completely.
initially when I started tostring along projects, the more,
I would think about the nine tofive job, the Saturn, the more
upset I would get, like this isnot really what I'm supposed to
be dealing.
It's going to be tougher a bittrying to get, you know,
(04:32):
everything going, but I knoweventually it's, it's what I'm
supposed to be doing.
So, and I'd still say I'm at thebeginning phase.
Like it's not like I'm makingcrazy money and do anything
insane, but like I can pay mybills and do what I need to do
and more positive things keephappening.
So I'm just kind of people.
(04:52):
Dude.
That is amazing.
That's like, my dream is to havesome sort of project that's
fueling me.
Right.
I got like, you know, I gotthings like the app and the
podcast.
I haven't figured out how tolike, generate much money from
those things.
And luckily I have remote job.
It makes it much more likeflexible.
And I get to do things like thispretty easy, but like, yeah, I,
I so badly want to havesomething that's like my own
(05:14):
that is just like paying thebills and keeping me, you know,
just, just keeping me out of thenine to five life, you know, but
like so much respect for whatyou're doing.
Cause it's like, you're stillworking the nine to five, but
you're all these things outsideof it.
Even like after I decided, okay,I'm just going to do this.
I'm not going to apply to any,any jobs.
If like something reallyappealing came up, I would still
(05:35):
shoot out uh, my resume and tryand make it happen.
But I was like, I feel like I'mdoing the wrong thing.
Like I, should I get anotherpart-time job to kinda like make
ends meet?
And I was like, no, I'm justgoing to kind of suffer
financially for like four tofive months, six months.
And then it just kind of workedout.
But I mean, worked out byputting in like crazy hours and
(05:57):
getting screwed over on pricing.
And then it's like, you'retrying to differentiate pricing
with friends and like what youractual value is.
So that's been the biggest thingI think I learned from this
pursuing this full time ishonoring your value and like
your worth, regardless of likewho the client is, even if it's
your, your best friend,obviously it's your home or your
(06:19):
best friend, your brother, like,you're gonna give them a little,
little discount there, but.
Yeah, establishing likegroundwork and a foundation of
this is my price.
This is what I offer.
And then it got to a point whereI was like, well, I kind of need
the money.
if they say no to this price,what am I going to do?
And I realized, I would say noto someone and something else
(06:41):
would come along.
And I'm like, man, I'm glad I'mlike sticking to this because I
kind of screwed myself over inthe beginning.
It's like, I'd get some dopeprojects, get to make some cool
things, but I didn't really havemuch to show for it.
And then I couldn't, I wouldn'tbe able to pay rent.
I wouldn't be able to do X, Y,and Z.
So that's been a big thing.
I've learned the business sideof it because, you know, as a
(07:01):
creator, you're like, oh yeah,I'll make music.
I'll make art and I can makecool stuff.
But like, if you don't know howto navigate on the business side
of things, then don't reallymatter how good you are, unless
you have a management team tosupport.
For sure.
No, it seems like the fact thatyou didn't get a side hustle or
something like kept you hungry,kept you, you know like there's,
(07:23):
there's that phrase likestarving artists.
Right.
But it forced you to like figureout what your value is and be
like, no, I literally can't thisweek, unless you pay me the full
amount I'm deserved, you know,whereas if you had that, like,
if you were just waiting tablesor something, you're like, all
right, well, you know, I canjust take a pay cut and maybe
get my art out there, you know?
But I, I don't know.
(07:43):
I love being in those situationswhere you're just like, it's all
or nothing, zero to a hundred.
You, you have to do this.
I put myself in a couple ofsituations like that in life
where I don't know, I almostjust thrive in like that kind of
situation.
Like around the same time I waslaid off too.
And I didn't get my projectslike up and running, but I was
in no rush to go find a job.
(08:03):
Like I was, you know, I was likesitting in the trenches of, of
like poverty for a second,because there's something
magical about just having likeno savings and being like, I
need, I like just feeling likeeverything is riding on this.
Not just money too, but like youinvest yourself into it.
You're like, this is my identitynow.
(08:23):
And I can't let, I can't letthis fail.
You know, it's like powerful.
I love that description.
There's something magic.
Like there's something soamazing about that moment in
that state where it's like, I'mstarting at zero right now.
it's up to me and having it'simportant to have a good support
network behind you, which I domy family, Caroline, my
girlfriend, some close.
(08:45):
But yeah, that's like the mostexciting thing when you're like,
okay, I'm committing to this.
I have nothing else right now,but I'm gonna make it happen.
I think I functioned well inthat situation too, with your
back against the wall and youkind of a little chip on your
shoulder, I've navigated mywhole life like that.
Yeah.
And on the flip side, I feellike once you have success, now
there's something to lose.
(09:05):
Right.
And I feel like people, peoplewho are really good at this,
like when they find success,their mentality stays in that
poverty mindset.
like a famous rapper will besuccessful, but then they'll
change their goals to be like,no, I want to do a fashion
brand.
Now, now they're back in thatmindset of like, I'm
unsuccessful, even though theymight have success in one area.
(09:26):
Like someone who is reallytalented at, at pushing forward
can always change their mindsetto like, you know, find.
That rhythm, where they feellike, you know, they are in the
trenches still, you know, so Ilike what's going on to get them
charged up again, and what'sgonna help them tap back into
that initial feeling before theygot to where they're at.
(09:47):
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
So I feel like that's a feelingyou should hang on to.
And like, I don't know.
I would go, I will go right backin the trenches too.
If, if I felt like that's what Ineeded next, you know?
Yeah, yeah, no, that's a goodway to put it.
I think I subconsciously do thatwithout being like, oh, I'm
going to go do that now.
It's just kind of, you can feelwhen contentment's coming along,
when you're like, oh, I'm alittle more comfortable than I
(10:08):
was, you know, five months ago.
I don't need to put in 10 to 12hours some days, you know?
But yeah, I think I have goodself-awareness of when I need to
really put my foot on the gasand when I need to step back and
take some time for myself and bewith friends.
And that's another thing I'vebeen trying to work on.
you have all these goals youwant to accomplish.
I'm sure you can relate.
(10:28):
You have all these goals youwant to accomplish, but you have
to nurture yourself and you haveto take care of yourself.
So when you're putting in allthis effort and energy, you're
in like a good to decent mindstate.
So what you're creating, isn'tburning you out.
Isn't making you miserable.
So you're actually enjoying the.
(10:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, man, there's thispodcast is not successful by any
means.
Right.
But I think I realized that itwas something I needed because
it, it helps me connect withpeople to like make friends, to
reconnect with friends likethis.
I realized like, this is like ahealthy thing for myself.
Right.
And like, when I was working onthe app all the time, I was just
always, you know, alone workinggrinding.
(11:12):
And I don't know, you don't getthat like source of inspiration
when you're just isolated.
so you work on music and art,right.
Or, like drawings, digital art.
So I, I wanted to talk to youjust about like art in general.
Right.
But I feel like you can't comeat art directly, always.
Right.
You kind of have to comeindirect sometimes.
Like, you know, you need to getinspired.
You need to go be with friendsor nature or something.
(11:34):
You can't just like.
Sit at the computer all day andexpect to like come up with new
ideas, you know?
Exactly.
No, I liked, I liked that point.
I think it's both, I think it isdirect and indirect because
there's plenty of times wherelet's say I'm at like a creative
block point.
That's a good time when it'slike, you're coming off of a S a
(11:56):
stream, a series of like, okay,I've been making good stuff, but
now I'm like, I don't reallyknow what to do next.
That's a good time to go hangout with friends to like, go
somewhere new.
Just go, go to the gym, go playbasketball.
I played basketball a lot.
So that's like a good way I canget out weekly to kind of clear
my mind.
But honestly for me, spendingtoo much time thinking about
(12:19):
what I'm going to make next ismore of a detriment to my
creativity.
I just need to start puttinglike pen to paper.
Brainstorming ideas, likeactually drawing, actually
painting whatever.
And that's how I generatemotivation and inspiration is by
starting.
So if that answers the question,I kinda got lost in my thoughts.
I didn't even ask a question.
(12:40):
no, you know what I'm sayingthough?
Like the point, yeah.
So you're saying like, yeah,sometimes you need a
distraction, but sometimes youneed to just go all the way in
and just get started when youdon't know, like the worst place
to be is in the middle whereyou're brainstorming or
something like you either wantto be like fully distracted with
some basketball or a friend orsomething like this podcasts
where you have to focus on it,or you'd rather like just grind
(13:04):
out for 10 hours, but have noclue what direction you're
headed in or something, youknow, because then like getting
started is, is basically a bigpart of the battle.
And I'd say getting out anddoing that.
It goes back to like finding thebalance.
Like I have a good rhythm ofbalance in, okay.
A few times a week, I'm going togo do XYZ outside of creating.
(13:26):
So when I am creating I'm in abetter mindset and can focus
more on this and don't feellike, oh, I haven't taken enough
time for myself to be with myfriends.
But I feel like it's more justsitting down starting.
That's how I am productive increating.
When I just like start you let'stalk, let's talk like some
specifics about your digitalart.
Like what softwares do you use?
(13:48):
Like what, how how'd you getthese skills?
I mean, I guess this is what youstudied, right?
So graphic design in college.
So that was more like an Adobesuite using illustrator, using
Photoshop, using premiere, allthat.
And it wasn't until my junioryear, I really started taking,
cause music had been my mainpriority even when I was in.
(14:09):
So like, I wasn't really tryingto get better at art my
freshman, sophomore year.
So it was just doing music and,and all that.
But my junior year I got reallyinto it.
Cause I started understandingthe programs more.
So I'd say for like two years, Iwas mainly just using
illustrator and Photoshop.
I would take like a physicaldrawing I had or sketch whatever
(14:31):
and then turn it into somethingdigital.
And then after I graduated, Igot an iPad.
So now I primarily use procreatebecause I like the physical act
of like drawing using procreatehelps accelerate like the
efficiency of projects I can domore.
I can undo mistakes easier whichalso led me getting into
(14:52):
animation.
So I do a lot of like 2danimation, which is all done
through pro.
Even though you make digitalart, I feel like your style a
lot of times is like a paintingor like something it feels hand
drawn.
Right.
So what kind of like styles doyou like to use?
I don't, I don't understand alot about art drawing styles,
(15:13):
But is there a couple different,like like art theories that, or,
or styles that you, you tend tolike to work with yeah, I think
it's like a simple way to put itis, so it was like a kid in
middle school, high school.
I was a big doodler, like inclass and stuff.
So I just call it kind of mixedwith like graffiti that type of
(15:34):
style.
What you think of when you thinkof graffiti.
So like just a more advanceddeveloped, like doodle graffiti
style.
But at the same time, I workreally hard to get that like
realism of like, look at aphoto.
It's like, I want to get thisperson to look as close in the
drawing as I do in real life.
So I like to like, kind ofcombine those two where there is
(15:56):
a really good sense of realism,but also this fun, creative
doodly graffiti style mixed withit.
I've been following your page.
I think probably since it wascreated or pretty early on and
yeah, I mean, you've put outsome like really beautiful, like
realistic paintings of, of mustbe like people are friends in
your life.
Right.
But then you're able to put likesome sort of abstract, maybe
(16:18):
something in the background or,you know, it's definitely a mix
of both, right?
Like realistic and abstract artkind of melding together, you
know?
I had to kind of figure out too.
It's like, okay, as an artist,you want to develop to a certain
degree of style.
So like when they see it, it canbe recognizable like, oh, that's
that person.
And that's not like my maingoal, but it's something to
think about.
(16:39):
Right.
Cause you want to have, like,you can always branch out and
experiment off of that, but I'vekind of honed into that,
especially over the past, likesix or seven months, really
pushing that style because Ifound one, I enjoyed doing it
the most and two, you can getsome pretty cool results and
then it's, open-ended on whatI'm able to create.
I don't feel like I put myselfin a box by having that style.
(17:02):
Cause I do just as many digitalprojects that I get hired to do,
I'm doing physical, painting,drawing as well.
That last summer I got to do myfirst mural in Baltimore city.
It was like this big three story400 square foot wall Back to
what you're saying about do youneed to go find inspiration?
Do you need to do this?
I like being able to go betweenphysical and digital art because
(17:23):
sitting in front of a computeror a screen all day, I'm way
more strained at the end of theday when I do physical art.
It's so nice.
A little more freeing, you getto like move around especially
when I'm doing like the biggerprojects where I'm doing murals
and all that.
But, I love having that balance.
I think it's important in it.
It allows me to kind of, what amI trying to say?
I just liked being able to haveboth outlets because there's
(17:43):
times where I'm like, man, it'snice.
I don't have to get out allthese materials.
I can literally sit on the couchand draw something, but there's
other times where it's like, Ineed to be moving around.
I need to be engaged physicallyand like in the painting.
So I love being able to bounceback and forth between both
mediums.
Yeah, man, I feel like that'sthe worst part of a nine to five
is that it feels essentially.
(18:04):
The same, for most of workweek,right?
Where even if you're workinglike 80 hours right.
A week, but you're jumpingbetween digital art and physical
art, and maybe you're makingsome music and, you're making
some art, like on a mural in thetown hall, and then you're
making some in your bedroom and,have like a bunch of different
(18:24):
projects you can jump between,then it doesn't feel like you're
doing the same thing 80 hours aweek, you know?
And picks it up and it'sdifferent.
And, and like you said, youmight just be at the park and
see something and you take apicture of it draw later.
Well, I mean, that's part of theprocess.
Like you're always kind ofworking, but you're also like
never really working, you know?
(18:45):
Exactly.
having that balance.
And then even at adding music tothe equation.
So it's like, I kind of havethree things, all creative
things that I'm able to likebounce back and forth between
that really helps enhance eachone by taking time, even if it's
just a day or two where I'mlike, cause there's probably,
you know, a week or two whereI'm not even thinking about,
(19:07):
well, I'm always thinking aboutmusic, but I'm not recording.
I'm not actively creatinganything for it.
Then I'm like, okay, I've gottenthese projects done.
I need some time to make music.
So I'll spend like a day or twoworking on that.
So I mean, it's such a blessingto be able to do that.
And I want to keep working hard.
So I'm able to always do that.
There's so many fun topics.
(19:27):
I want to jump between, but thisis a good time just to say when
we would hang out, we would justlike freestyle all the time,
man.
And I have so many good memoirs,dude.
I didn't rap much leading up tothat point.
You know, I did some in highschool and I haven't really
wrapped since then, but likeyou, I don't know.
We just wrapped all the time forlike a couple months randomly in
(19:49):
like 2018.
And I just had a freaking blast,man.
And, I'm obviously not.
Oh, gee, like a professionalrapper or even it's not even
like a side project of mine, butI, you just made it so much fun
and encouraged me to alwayslike, be down to spit bars.
And I don't know, man, you justbrought the right kind of
energy.
I'm not just going to freestylein front of anybody.
I'm not good at it, you know,but I just remember, you always
(20:12):
had like the best energy dudeand you were always like
encouraging me to like, just,just freestyle and like, not
give a fuck.
And man, we just had, maybe wewere just drunk or something,
but, but, but like we just hadso much fun spitting bars for
like hours and hours, likeseveral different weekends.
I remember.
Yeah, dude.
I mean, no, I appreciate yousaying that, but I remember
getting so high when Carol wouldtext me when I knew I was coming
(20:34):
down that weekend to visit andshe was like, GDS, come coming
this week until I'm like, dude,I felt the same way about you.
I'm like you just radiate a goodenergy.
All free-styling is like, I likefree song.
Cause it's fun.
And especially in like thatenvironment where you're around
other people, but it's justenergy.
So it's like, you can be sayingbullshit, but with freestyle
it's like just have some.
(20:55):
John, you know, work with thebeat, but now I had such a good
time doing that with you, man.
For real.
Yeah, man.
It's like a live show rightthere.
You know, you just kind of got avibe with it, but, but yeah,
man, so like the music was likeyour main passion and it seems
like it's still pretty much is,but like you said, you know, the
digital art started I'm payingthe bills more.
(21:17):
Right.
So you were saying that you gotto kind of manage that and make
sure you still set aside time tomake, music, you know, because I
mean, you were putting out likereal music videos and real
albums, your music was at aquality where I felt like that
could be your main thing.
Like you could be, professional,you know, at least making a
living doing, doing rap as wellor, or some sort of music.
(21:40):
So I'm glad that you haven'tstopped that pursuit.
I'm glad that, you're stillmaking time for it and that.
You know, you have this nicelifestyle I assume that the
digital art indirectly inspiresthe rap and vice versa, even if
you're not working on it, likethere's some indirect uh, they
must feed off each other, youknow?
Yeah.
They definitely do.
And yeah, music ever since Igraduated from, from high school
(22:03):
and it wasn't right when Igraduated, I'd say it's been
like seven years since I'vereally been pushing music.
So just a little contextbackground.
So I was like, sports was mymain thing.
Growing up.
I was a three sport athlete Iwas on track to go play division
one lacrosse somewhere, but thenI got a really bad injury.
I got in a snowboarding accidentin eighth grade and ended up in
(22:26):
the ICU for like three or fourdays.
I was out of school, out ofsports for a while, but then my
sophomore year of high school, Igot a really bad concussion and
went to see a neurologist andthey're like, you're going to be
okay.
And you go through a normalprotocol for this concussion,
but I recommend that you stopplaying contact sports.
(22:47):
And so both my parents werecollege athletes and they
understood the severity of thesituation, but they're also like
you got to watch out for you andwe think it's the best thing for
you and your future if likepeace out playing sport.
So when I was 17, I just stoppedplaying like right on that cusp
of like, oh, where am I going togo play in college?
so I kind of like lost myidentity and didn't really know
(23:11):
what the fuck to do.
Like, you know, it's like everyday, all I did was think about
sports and after-schoolpractice, you know, once a week,
a game I was playing for schooland travel and club, all this
stuff.
But I'd always had this interestin art.
So I started painting, drawingall that.
(23:32):
And then I started just likewriting poems as like a
therapeutic outlet.
And being that hip hop was likemy favorite genre music to
listen to.
I was like, well, what if I justtry and start like rapping so I
kind of did it low key in highschool, but not anything
serious.
So I was probably like 20, whenI really started pushing music
and started releasing songs onSoundCloud and getting a
(23:54):
positive reaction from people.
So I was like, you know, I'mgonna keep doing this.
Cause I didn't go to collegeright after high school because
I didn't really know what to do.
I was like, why don't I givethis a try?
I was like doing landscaping atthe same time, but all I was
doing was music.
So that was for like two years.
And then I started to be able tobook like local shows, you know,
small venues where it's like ahundred to 150 capacity.
(24:16):
You know, 20 or 30 people wouldcome out.
I just loved it.
I loved being able to likecreate and express things
musically.
It like really helped me workthrough a lot of shit that, that
was a repercussion of not beingable to play sports and the
emotional trauma that likephysical shit that happened.
So I feel kind of indebted to itin a way, cause it helped me
(24:36):
navigate through like the mostdifficult time of my life but
then as time went on, I waslike, I just want to get better
at this.
I just love it so much.
And fast forward, probably twoyears after that I started
getting on the opening circuitand I got to open up for some
really big artists like Daviesblack bear, a boogie with a
hoodie fairly a bunch of people.
(24:58):
So when COVID hit though, causeI was on the stream of doing
shows all the time when COVIDhit, you know, you couldn't
perform anymore.
Go do live shows more thanmaking musics.
I thought I had a good librarybury like vault of music.
I was more focused on the liveperformance.
I could connect with people andlike bring in new fans and
people who liked my music.
(25:19):
So when COVID hit it, I kind oftook a step back and I wasn't
creating as much.
And I was like, I need to figureout a way to actually make ends
meet I'm graduating, like I wassaying before.
So yeah, it definitely was onthe back burner for like all the
2020, basically.
I wasn't making that much music.
I put out like one or two songs.
But then once I got things moreunder control financially, I was
(25:42):
like, what am I doing?
I love this shit.
I gotta get back on it and justlike lock into it.
So and then it's funny when youlike with anything, when you
fully mentally block.
Things just started happeningand you're like, I'm going to do
anything.
I need to make this work so lastsummer this guy hits me up on
Instagram.
(26:02):
Cause he heard a song I releasedand he's like, yo, I really like
your vibe.
He's like my name's Peter I'mfrom Copenhagen.
And he he's in like his midthirties, late thirties.
And he plays this guitar rifflike over my song and sends it
back.
I'm like, yo, that's sick.
He's like, if you're interested,I would love to maybe work
together.
(26:23):
And I was like, hell yeah,that'd be awesome.
A few months go by.
We were like FaceTime startedtalking.
And since then we've releasedfour about to be five songs and
I'm exclusively just workingwith him at the moment.
So he's his producer fromCopenhagen plays like four
instruments.
Crazy talented has been doingmusic for like 20 plus years and
(26:46):
we just mesh so well and it justrevived my love for it.
And it's just been incredible,dude.
That's awesome, man.
I'm trying to give a littlecontext.
No, dude, I'm glad you sharedthat story.
I was kind of aware of, why yougot into rap.
And I remember used to alwaystell me, with the fitness app
and stuff, you're like, I wish Icould test out your app.
(27:07):
I wish, you know, I'm an athleteat heart and stuff like that.
And first of all, I'm sorrythat, you know, you weren't able
to pursue that career, but alsoI feel like athletes have like a
certain mentality similar to thementality we were talking about
of like being in the trenches,like the starving artists, like
you got to kind of make it.
And I feel like if you werealways making music or
(27:29):
something, It might be a littlesofter.
I'm not trying to make funartists, but like you might have
a little softer mentality aboutthings.
And I feel like that athlete'smentality transferred really
well to your artistic pursuits.
You had to be business savvy allsudden to succeed in this.
And I don't know, I, I don't, Ilift, I don't play any sports
(27:50):
anymore, but I always think backto like, when I used to play
very high level soccer and justhow intense I was, and I'm able
to put that into my app, mypodcast, my career, you know,
there's this certain level ofjust, you have to win.
You have to just, you know,succeed with a competitive
(28:11):
sport.
You know, that I, I feel likereally helped fuel you to just
not be a casual, you know, artmaker.
Totally.
I think about that all the time.
And I talk to people about thatspecific thing all the time.
And I, I can't speak on how, ifI were just to make art from a
(28:31):
young age, never played sports,how my mindset would be, but I'm
pretty confident that it wouldnot be what it is.
And I think it's such anadvantage.
Having played sports at a highlevel to integrate the mindset
and the values you learn whenbeing on a team and like working
with other people, but likeindividually what you need to do
(28:52):
to get better.
And it took a little bit to beable to actually incorporate
that mindset with art.
It's like, yeah, but it's notthe same.
I don't wake up at five o'clockand go to the gym and then like
run and, you know, so it's likefiguring out how to actually
utilize that as a creative waslike a weird kind of process.
And it wasn't like, I wasactively thinking about it like
(29:14):
that, but that's what it was.
But once I figured it.
How to kind of make thattransition and use that mindset
with art.
I mean, I just feel like themomentum can't be stopped, you
know, and it goes back to thatpoint of when you get content,
how can I find that next thingto like, revive that hunger?
(29:37):
And that's just, that's likethat athletic mindset.
Yeah, man, you gotta, you gottado what's uncomfortable.
Right.
And that whole situation wasobviously uncomfortable and, and
it, naturally pushed you right.
To, to just find something thatyou would never.
Ever even thought aboutpursuing.
And then on the flip side, Ifeel like if you did pursue
lacrosse, like you probablywouldn't be able to pursue that
(30:00):
as a career.
You know, post-college like, youcould be a lacrosse coach, you
know, but I was hitting thosesame walls with soccer, like
route 18.
I was like, I'm I could go playsoccer in college, but like, I
don't want to be a soccer coach,you know?
And my dad was like, even if youwent pro for soccer, you're not
good enough to play in England.
(30:21):
Right.
You would do that in Americauntil you're like, you know, 30,
and then you would need adifferent career for the next 30
years.
Like, you know, that's not goingto make you enough money to
retire.
and, and not to like hate onanyone, who's pursuing sports as
a, as a career or a passion.
And, and I even did considerbeing a soccer coach for awhile,
but things only last so long, asfar as like your, your youth
and, you gotta either dosomething like very specific in
(30:45):
it, or you got to transfer thatenergy somewhere else.
Either way.
I feel like, you know, right.
No, totally.
Because I get both sides of it.
I get it's like, if all there isnothing else on your mind, why
not pursue soccer and like gofor it and then try and utilize
the platform you've created fromplaying the sport to doing the
(31:05):
next thing.
But it's just like, you gottalisten to yourself in those
situations, if you have theoption to play play, but if or
not, it doesn't matter.
But what I'm getting at is it'sjust about the individual.
And for me now, looking back,I'm really glad it should be as
it was because it's like, Istill deal with a lot of like
(31:26):
the physical repercussions ofthe injury, like this.
But at the same time I'm so it'sthe best thing that ever
happened because you're right.
I wouldn't have played, or Iwouldn't have probably gotten
into art or music, at least notto the degree that I am now.
If I were to play collegelacrosse and then have some like
nine to five job that was justlike maybe a decent paying job,
(31:48):
but not something I waspassionate about.
So I'm super grateful that ithappened is like a shitty as it
was in the moment when I wasgoing through it.
I'm just so, so stoked.
It happened because it opened upa whole nother part of my life
and introduced me to so manydope people and experiences,
opportunities that I never,never would have been able to
(32:10):
experience if the injury didn'thappen.
Yeah, man, that's crazy.
I, I don't know, just to thinkabout the two journeys you were
about to like go down and likethe differences and I mean, it's
a road not taken, so we'll neverknow, I feel like I want to
return to rap, but I feel likewe have to just hit on the NMT
thing for a second.
(32:31):
Yeah.
I was wondering if you weregonna want to talk about NFTs
because what's crazy is that.
You were, you were going toschool for digital art, right.
And I remember when you firstput up your Instagram page, I
was like, oh, that's reallycool.
Obviously I was a big fan ofyour rapping.
Like I just viewed you as arapper.
So I was like, that's cool thathe's making art.
And then dude, within like ayear later, like being a digital
(32:56):
artist was like the coolestfucking thing in the world.
All of a sudden, like all of asudden NFTs are exploding.
One of my friends is now like adigital art collector.
Right.
He got into crypto and then hestarted buying NFTs.
I did a whole interview with himjust about buying Anaptys, you
know?
So like, I feel like.
It's a, it was a randomly coolmiracle that you were just
(33:16):
coming out of your degree.
You started doing the digitalart and then all of a sudden
there's this new medium of, notjust putting it out there, but
making money.
I assume this was very excitingfor you, but, can you just tell
me about your journey with, withNFTs?
Yeah.
It's brand new.
I'm just kind of entering thespace, but yeah, it's, I never
(33:36):
really thought about that.
Like seeing the digital LAR thatI'm putting out and then all of
a sudden, you know, it's such apopular thing in the NMT space,
but yeah, I heard about it alot, especially as a creator,
like people asking like, Hey,are you gonna like release these
NFTs?
Are you gonna end?
I'm not one to just startjumping into something without a
(33:57):
little information, a littleresearch on what's going on.
Cause that at the beginning, Imean, it's still in the
beginning and if T as a whole.
I didn't really know, understandthe process.
So I'm like, I'm not just goingto put art up there if I don't
know what I'm doing or like howthe space even works.
So the first time I probablyheard about it and really
considered like, oh, I should doit is like a year ago.
(34:17):
And then I passively would likeread articles and be like, ah, I
guess I'll do it eventually.
But felt just like I was alreadywearing a lot of hats and I was
like, I don't know if I can liketake on a new space.
It seems like it takes a lot oftime and effort.
So then a few months ago, mybuddy commissioned me to do a
painting for forum, but insteadof doing a fiscal painting, he
(34:38):
was like, can I commission youto make an NFT for me?
It was actually a digitaldrawing.
So I created the digital drawingforum and then like gifted him
the NFT.
And so now he owns it.
So that was my first time whereI'm like, this is actually a
good way to learn it.
If like people want tocommission things where it's
like, I don't have to do thesebig releases and drops.
It's like, I can understand it.
Okay, this is how you upload it.
(34:58):
This is how you meant it, howyou do all these things.
So that was great.
Cause that really helped me findother resources too.
Like, oh, this will give youinformation when you're a
beginner and what you need todo.
So then that happened again withone other person.
And then actually just like twoweeks ago, buddy of mine he was
asking if I'd ever considereddoing NFTs and like putting my
(35:21):
music up right.
And trying to utilize thatplatform for my music.
So we had a phone call andbasically he's established a
name for himself in thecommunity over the past year and
has a really good following andis involved in some of like the
innovation of the space and allthis.
It was one of these momentswhere I was like, this feels
kind of too good to be true, butI'll just take it.
He's like, I want to help getyou integrated in this space.
(35:46):
He was like, it's really hard asa new artist in the NFT space to
be able to, to get going andcreate a community when you have
no connects to people who arealready established in this
space.
So he basically like walk methrough the steps of like, Hey,
here's a good foundation of whatyour price point needs to be.
Here's here's the types ofpieces.
And whether you want to dropone-on-ones or additions like
(36:09):
this is, this is a good way tostart out to kind of like lay
the framework and start creatinga community.
So I put those up last week onTuesday was I put up my first
two additions and a one-on-oneon.
So the additions on are, are onopen, see the foundation or the
one-on-ones on foundation andwithin like 48 hours.
(36:31):
Five of the edition sold andit's just been crazy to see,
like, I didn't understand that,like creating a community you're
just on Twitter all day.
Like when you're in the NFTspace, you're just fucking
Twitter all day.
And like, it's crazy to me,dude.
And so I've been trying to spendas many hours as I can
throughout the day, likeconnecting with people, but just
(36:52):
trying to learn more.
Cause it's just, it feels likethis infinite space and there's
always something else to learn.
But I'm super excited about it.
And just to have another outletwhere you can sell art and put
your art up and connect withother artists, it's insane.
But I still, I still feel likemy knowledge is very beginner
level, so I, I can't speak toomuch on this space as a whole,
(37:13):
but just that I'm excited to begetting into it and to be
meeting these new people andlearning more about it.
Yeah, man, dude I, I'm notsurprised at all that it kind of
pulled you in based on yourinterests and your hobbies, your
artistic pursuits.
You know, there's like a hugeparadigm shift happening in the
technical industry right now.
It's towards it's web three.
I'm sure you've heard that word,but I think in two, three years
(37:38):
from now, all of your artclients for your art projects
will prefer NFT, you know, as,as payment methods, like I think
it just, it will be the standardfor music files to, and our
projects and everything.
Like, I could put this video outas an NFT.
possibilities with thistechnology are absolutely
endless, you know, it's, it'salmost like when we first
(38:01):
invented the website, you knowit's a good way to think about
it because people thoughtwebsites were just like magazine
pages on the internet, you know?
But they turned into thesecrazy, you know, platforms that
we use.
And I don't think we've eventouched the surface of, of what
it means to own a digital assetonline and, and what that could
(38:22):
mean moving forward.
Right.
I mean, it's it's so, yeah.
Are you in this space, do youcollect or anything like that?
So I I've gotten pulled into it.
Just from podcasting dude, asfar as like I've done like four
or five interviews now peoplewho are in the space and, and by
(38:42):
the way, none of them are even.
Like the same thing.
So I I've interviewed someonewho is into crypto mining,
right.
Someone who uses their energyto, to confirm payments on, on
the crypto platforms.
And, and I've talked to someonewho, you know, makes art I've
talked to someone who is adigital art collector, and then
(39:03):
I've, I've got one interviewlined up.
My friend is creating a businessaround this.
So I have interviewed him yet,but I'm friends with him.
I kind of have an idea of whathe's doing.
He is putting video games up asNFTs.
So it's like the originalPac-Man, you know what I'm
saying?
So instead of buying a pitcher,you buy like the OJI Pac-Man,
(39:24):
you know what I'm saying?
And you can go to Oak, you'regonna be able to go to open sea
and like play this little game.
Like you're going to own a videogame and.
I think it's just like the tipof the iceberg with his idea,
because I think what's going tohappen is that they're going to
make this technology open sourceand people are going to be able
to start building video gamesand they're all the NFTs are
(39:45):
going to become like littlebuilding blocks of these games.
And they're going to it's like,if you were a game developer and
I was a game developer, becauseof the way web three works are
two video games can sync up.
And th you know what I'm saying?
So that's actually crazy.
Yeah.
Super creative, like a approachin like, A business plan.
(40:07):
That's awesome.
I'm excited to see what, what hedoes with that.
That's incredible.
Yeah.
So there's entire companies thatare emerging you know, there's
people like you that arefreelancers, right.
And they're doing projects, butthere's people that are building
new big platforms.
Like there's going to be the newTwitters and new Facebooks and
new, new Amazons and Spotify isthat, that emerged on these type
(40:29):
of web three technologies.
I understand how it works from atechnical standpoint.
I'm, I'm, you know, I, I justwork in that industry and I
listened to podcasts and peoplefrom that perspective I bought
one of these little buildingblocks of my friends, like video
game NFT just his proof ofconcepts.
And I, I want to get into likebuying some digital art, but I
(40:50):
haven't yet, you know just causeI haven't had the money,
honestly.
Like I've been hit 10 of teasedall the time.
I just haven't had the money.
As I started to develop more ofan understanding for it.
I was like, well, you still haveto pay gas fees to mint and get
your art onto the blockchain andlike have it available for
people to purchase and collect.
It's crazy how much pieces arebeing sold for and how much
(41:11):
people are paying for things.
And then it's, it's reallyinteresting to, to see as I'm
like paying attention more tolike in Twitter, like how people
are talking about certainartists and projects, how you
generate more value for yourprojects and how you kind of get
that to grow over time.
I'm just so intrigued and soexcited by this space, because
like you're saying, I think it'sstill at its early phase and it
(41:35):
can grow into so much more.
and I like it as a creator,being able to like have utility
with your projects or.
You don't even draw anythingcrazy, but it's like, oh, with
this drawing, like you also getXYZ, you know, for like people
to unlock her.
It's like a, almost like a passto access.
You see?
Like, I don't know if you payattention to like Gary V they're
(41:56):
able to like have one-on-oneaccess to him if they purchase
this NFT.
I love that idea of being ableto grow a closer relationship
with people who are interestedin what you're doing by adding
that.
And it's funny to see a mix ofreactions.
A lot of artists like are like,my art is a utility.
Like the work I put in as autility, which I totally get.
(42:17):
But I, I like the idea of beingable to add more to it and have
another way to, to, to progressthe relationship with people,
paying attention to what your.
Yeah, man.
It's it's I think I just saidearlier, but it's a paradigm
shift, which means it's, it's aCray is everything's changing,
you know, and it's, it's pulledme in, like I said, just being,
(42:38):
like having a podcast at thistime, period, I realized like,
wow, this is very special.
Like I get to like all myfriends or, or a lot of my
friends are getting involved insome way, shape or form.
And like now I get to enter.
That's why I kind of, I'm notinvolved, but I just know so
much about it because like, justeveryone wants to do interviews
and talk about it and shareideas about it as, as it's like
emerging, you know?
(42:59):
But it also, so like my app isconsidered like web to right.
That's like the old paradigmmobile, like just mobile apps in
general are.
These closed platforms that arekind of part of the old paradigm
and those businesses will stillexist, but it's kinda made me
slow down with the app and belike, wait, I don't want to
(43:19):
build the, the last cool app ofthe old paradigm may.
Maybe I do, but, but maybe Ineed to like slow down and think
about if or how I can be part ofthis new thing going on.
And I think it's like, like yousaid, it's in its infancy.
So I really am, I'm in no rushwith that.
But it's forced me to do adouble-take and that's kind of
(43:40):
why I'm doing so much podcastingright now.
I'm like immersing myself justwith all sorts of like ideas and
things and seeing like whatsticks and maybe what I should
pursue, like on a platformlevel, with the fitness app or,
something slightly different.
Totally.
No, that's smart to be able tolike, recognize that and take
the step back.
So for the app where youactually, one of the people
(44:03):
creating it, or the only personwho developed it, like on the
technical side, or did you havesomeone else actually develop
that?
so I developed the app for thefirst, like two or three years
on my own, you know and then Ibrought in two guys to help me
for like a summer and then oneof them stopped working with us
(44:23):
and then one of them stayed withme.
And so that guy is definitelymore of an expert than I am, but
I've always like I taught myselfto code on this app.
It was kind of like how Ieducated myself, And then When I
started the podcast, that waswhen the app was in like a
pretty decent state.
And so that was when I was like,okay, I'm going to try to figure
out how to market this thing forus.
And so I switched gears somethen, and so I've spent half my
(44:44):
time now doing podcasting ordifferent types of marketing
just trying to grow this brand,you know, but I have a technical
career and I still keep my handsin the, in the code.
And, and I like to work on itand touch it up.
But have one guy who he'sdefinitely better than me, so I
let him take the lead on some ofthe more difficult things we
need to do.
(45:05):
That's sick though.
I, yeah, I, I had a feeling thatyou were involved in the actual
development of the app, but sowho'll moving forward.
If you're going to continue.
And a web three or w however,you're going to do that in the
future to, to be able to beinvolved in that part of the
process, not just like, oh, Ihave this idea, and this is what
I want the app to be.
I think it just gives you anadvantage and what you're doing.
(45:26):
So that's dope.
yeah.
Thanks, man.
I think I've told you thisbefore, but the whole.
Idea was to integrate fitnesswith video games.
Right.
So when it comes to web three,you can build a whole platforms
that are decentralized and kindof run off of something like a
theory.
Um, But also I'm working on thisspace story that'll like
integrate into your workouts.
(45:47):
And so there's like cool, likespace imagery and things like
that in the app now.
And um, Wondering if maybe Ishould just have like a web two
platform that has certain NFTsor something embedded in it, or
like, you know, when you getlike an achievement on a video
game, you know, instead of that,just being an achievement, maybe
it's an NFT now, something I,you know, that's just, that's
(46:09):
just one way that I'm thinkingabout maybe incorporating it or,
you know, without totallyswitching gears, but there's,
definitely going to be some wayI get pulled in, yeah.
No, I liked that too.
Cause like you don't have toabandon web two, there's a way
to like bridge the gap wherethey can be, working
simultaneously together.
that'd be cool.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm excited to see likewhere that, how that transitions
(46:31):
and transpired.
Yes, sir.
How are we doing on time?
You good to talk for a littlebit longer?
Like I, I know you, you havesome meeting coming up, it's
funny.
It's actually about, and so thecall I have, well, it's a, it's
a Twitter space I'm doing oh,nice.
My buddy.
I was telling you about and someother big art creators, some
artists and collectors.
So he basically set it up.
(46:53):
It's a way for me to askquestions to them being a new, a
newcomer to the space, like howthey navigated it, all these
things.
And it's a public thing.
So anyone could listen, but away to give value and help other
people who are new to learn howto navigate it better.
So I'm stoked.
There's like four of the artistswho are real dope.
I think three.
(47:13):
Almost all of them arephotographers.
One does some videography aswell.
But yeah, I'm super stoked tolike chop it up with them and,
hear more about their journeyand their process and how long
they've been in this space andbeing able to get to the point
that they're at.
So then we don't.
Hell yeah, man.
So I like to ask like,philosophical questions like
this sometimes, like w what doyou think the meaning of life is
(47:35):
I think it's just to understandwhat brings you fulfillment, joy
and inspiration, and just holdonto that and do that always.
It's just, you want to befulfilled.
You want to be happy.
(47:56):
You want to be challenged.
And I think someone had peoplelike, just think about what they
want to do and.
Oh, that'd be so cool if I couldtry this and that.
And it's not always that easy,but I think you really have to
push and, and stand up for thethings that make you happy and
make you feel alive and do thatmore frequently.
(48:20):
And that typically blossoms intosomething even better than you
can imagine as beautiful man.
Yes, sir.
Thank you for that question.
I know I threw a curve ball atyou dude after the half of the
NMT talk.
what has helped you findfulfillment?
What specifically maybe makesyou the most fulfilled?
(48:41):
Is it music?
Is it the digital art and thenis there some general advice on,
on how people can discover or,or become fulfilled in life?
Yeah, for sure.
The biggest thing was having.
Not being able to play sportsand having to kind of redefine
(49:02):
my identity is you have toreestablish your confidence in
yourself.
And it's something I feel likeI'm always working on trying to
get better at more confident inwho I am.
But I spent a year like actuallydoing, like reading a lot of
books doing a lot of things thatgot me out of my comfort zone to
help rebuild my confidence in anew space.
(49:24):
So once you understand who youare and like what you can bring
and being okay with your flaws,your, your strengths, I think it
really helps you navigateforward and like anything.
And I think that's my biggestpiece of advice is just like,
understand yourself, better,like learn to love yourself.
(49:46):
And that's gonna pull youtowards people who navigate.
This life similarly, that willthen enhance that self-love and
confidence you have in yourself.
And it's just kind of a snowballeffect.
I noticed when I wasn't in agood head space, I was doing
things that weren't necessarilyproductive or good for my
(50:08):
wellbeing.
And you got to have some funsometimes, you know, you gotta
like go party with friends anddo this here and there.
But If you understand, okay,these, these actions are making
me happy.
They're not good for me.
If you really take the time towork on yourself, get better.
And then it's going to build acompetency.
You it's going to push youtowards the right people and
(50:28):
it's going to help you getcloser to what you actually want
to do.
So that was the biggest thingfor me.
It was just like reestablishingconfidence, love for myself and.
That also just brings happinessand then it helps you navigate
different scenarios, differentproblems, different excitements
and feats defeats so muchbetter.
(50:51):
Yeah, man, I feel likeconfidence is so underrated
these days.
I feel like people like to shiton people who are maybe
narcissistic or like obsessedwith themselves.
But I feel like just having anunrelenting passion for
yourself, your life, what you'redoing, just absolutely obsessed
with this art project of yourown existence, you know?
(51:15):
The perfect way to actuallyinspire other people.
And like you were saying,attract the type of people into
your life that you need and thatneed you, and that can boost
each other up.
But, you know, there's somethingthat goes wrong when you put
your obsession into otherpeople, right?
If you pick a celebrity or evenlike your significant other or
(51:38):
your best friend, and you'rejust like, that person is so
awesome, that person is soawesome.
You know?
Yeah.
Maybe you're not as selfish ifyou do that, but it messes the
whole equation up for somereason.
But if you're just absolutely inlove with yourself, just, just
so passionate about your life,what your doing, like you said,
(51:58):
then.
You attract all these peoplethat are on the same vibe as
you, and then you end up, youknow, doing, I think more good
for people than if you put yourobsession into other people.
I don't know.
There's, there's something thathappened to me when it's like, I
went through this chain of like,I love this app.
(52:20):
I love what I'm doing.
I need to market it.
I, you know, I need to, to startconnecting with people.
I got on the podcast and nowlike through this love for
myself and love for what I'mdoing, you know?
And then once I started doingthe podcast, I realized the best
way to do this is to, to tobring other people up to, to put
other people on a pedestal.
(52:41):
You know what I'm saying?
Instead of just like talkingabout my app the whole time.
Cause you know, that's whatmakes for a better podcast, but
it all started from this momentof like me wanting my dream to
succeed.
And then now I'm like stumbledinto this place where I.
I'm being inspired by otherpeople.
I'm helping promote other peoplebringing them up, but I didn't
do it through like my, myobsession with other people.
(53:04):
Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally.
No.
And that's like a reallyinteresting and like insightful
point, like putting your energyinto yourself, you think you're
being selfless by just focusingon how much you love someone
else or how cool you think thisartist or celebrity is, but it's
not, you're not going to haveany progression and then you're
(53:26):
not gonna know how to cert facecertain situations.
If you're just not in tune withwhere you're at and how you feel
about yourself and then thesmallest things can make you
falter and do things out ofcharacter or feel some type of
way that if you had that undercontrol and had a better
understanding of where you'reat, you'd be able to navigate
itself.
(53:49):
Yeah, man.
It's it's it seems like a goodthing, but it's not the best
thing when someone is likeobsessed with you, right.
Or like needs you, like when,when you have a person in your
life that like loves you or isjust like thinking about you all
the time and, and is, is toofocused on you, you know?
And, and, you know, they, it,it, it can seem like a good
(54:12):
thing, but then, you know, thenyou feel obligated in a S in a
certain way to, to make likereserve, you know, what you're
doing and keep them in mind.
But if you have like someone inyour life, that's just like,
obsessed with what they're doingand they, you know, and then
you're obsessed with what you'redoing.
(54:33):
Those two passions link up in away it's like, you guys don't
need each other, you know?
But, but all of a sudden, youknow, you just vibe hard and
like, it just completely, it'slike exponential, like the, the
amount of benefit you can getfrom each other, all of a
sudden, because you don't haveto worry about them.
Cause, cause they're just,they're on their own path and
they know their path and theyknow what they're doing in life
(54:55):
and they they're just like,unrelentlessly just headed
towards this goal and you canjust, you can help push them.
You know what I'm saying?
But you don't have to be too,you know, did you, you get what
I'm saying?
I totally agree.
And if someone is like, say it'smore of a one-sided thing where
someone's like really dependenton you, it's like it's unfair to
(55:17):
them because they're putting toomuch expectation onto you.
And which then will make youlike, be like, oh, I got to
cater to this more and same sayit's from my perspective.
Or it's like, I am not superhappy with where I'm at, but
this person brings me so muchjoy and then you're instilling
expectation on them.
(55:38):
That's like, not really fair,like justified.
So then if something happenswith you guys, you're just
devastated and broken and youhave to be able to work
independently and, and feelstrong and happy and confident
and love yourself without thatfrom someone else.
Like, and this goes just to moreof a basic point.
(56:02):
When I stopped expecting somemuch from other people, like
even when I would like put out.
It's like, don't expect anyoneto listen to.
It don't expect anyone to likeshare it or like blasted and
make it go bigger.
Or when you put out a piece ordrop NFT, like you can't expect
anyone to like buy it right offthe rip, like, okay.
So, but the more I work, theharder I try and push that or
(56:26):
connect with people, the morelikely it is that those things
will happen.
So I realized, oh, that comesback to me.
Everything comes back to me.
that's why I was just like, Igot to get my confidence in
check.
I gotta get my understanding ofmyself in check.
And that's really been thebiggest thing and has allowed me
to move forward.
The most is the more in-tune Iget with myself, the more
(56:49):
positive things happen.
And the more I'm connected withpeople who are on the same.
Yeah, man.
I was thinking about likeenjoyment and joy and, you know,
expectation, but you're right.
It's that responsibility.
People who put fullresponsibility on themselves to
make their dreams happy, likeare happen.
Those are the people that areeasiest to help or easiest to,
(57:13):
you know to, to vibe with,because it's all on them, right?
They're not gonna blame anythingin the whole world for their
failures except for themselves.
And that's, those are the bestpeople to be around.
I feel like, you know, I agree.
And just a quick, like specific,I know you got to go, but I'm
out of your whole story, right?
I think the guy that you'remaking music with, the guy who
(57:33):
you've made four or five songswith, it seems like the best
example of like this guy seemslike he's really changing your
life right now.
Right.
But you could have neverconnected with him until you
became this level of dedicatedto your music.
Right.
if you met this guy near thebeginning of your journey, he
wouldn't want anything to dowith you and you would not, you
know what I'm saying?
Like, but, but now that you'reat this place, you know, he's,
(57:57):
you said he's been like doingthis for 20 years, you know, now
that you've been doing it forlike, you know, seven years,
you're finally at a place wheresomeone like that sees the value
in you and you guys can propeleach other, you know, like
that's, I feel like that's anexample.
That is an example.
And it was a realization oflike, you know, when you're in
the.
Maybe you experienced this withlike creating the app and, and
(58:20):
the podcast even where you'relike, I'm here, but I want, I
want to be so much bigger.
I want to be doing this.
So for music, I was like, well,I'm doing this show.
I want to be playing on thesestages.
I want to be opening up forthese artists and then flash
forward for like making musicwith this guy.
Like, let's say five years ago,I'm like, oh, I want to work
with that producer.
He's so dope.
(58:41):
And I think he'd really liked mymusic looking back now.
I'm like, I was not ready forthose opportunities.
Then cause you're so locked intoit.
You're like, oh, I'm confident.
I think I could, like, I couldshow up and do what I need to
do, but you're right.
I was not ready for that then.
And nor was I developedpersonally or musically enough
to be able to like function atthat level with people who have
(59:04):
been doing it for so long, butit's been so great.
Cause he's, he's been in a bunchof different bands, like
different jobs.
Play different instruments hegrew up, he loves golden era,
hip hop, like nineties hip hop.
So it's been so dope causethat's what got me into, it was
like 90 sip hop, like just mylove for hip hop there's I love
that era.
(59:24):
So it's cool to be able to havethis hybrid of he's been in
multiple bands, bunch ofdifferent genres, plus he loves
hip hop nineties and just thetype of sound we're creating
just feels unique and it feelsright.
So it feels kind of full circlein a weird way.
but yeah, it's, it's beautiful.
And we've released four or fivesongs, but we have like nine or
(59:45):
almost 10 songs created.
So we were just keeping it.
Hell.
Yeah, man.
I got to check some of these.
Some of them are out already.
Yeah.
I'll shoot you the link.
Okay.
Hell yeah.
I'll check it out.
Well we're, we're going to wrapup soon.
Like you said, you got to getoff, but we have to do this
again, man, because.
I like, like, there's a certainlevel of, of when the, when I
(01:00:06):
have a guest who hasn't been onbefore, where like we have to
dig into the specifics of youmake music, you make art you're
into NFTs.
Like it's very important to getlike a groundwork of who you
are.
But I feel like you just got tofeel for like the last like 20
minutes is like, once Iestablish with my audience, like
who a guest is then, I feel likeI, cause I know who you are.
(01:00:29):
Right.
But I feel like we'veestablished like an
understanding on a podcast.
That's when, like I can likereally get into the pocket with
someone and just start talkingabout life and like all these
ideas start flowing and now wecan pick out, you know, like
that conversation wouldn't havemeant anything or it wouldn't
have meant as much as if Ididn't have like that example to
pull from and, you know, thingslike that.
So I feel like you gotta comeback on at some point, man, and
(01:00:50):
would just get in the pocketlike this for two hours, because
I don't know, dude.
I have all, I always lovetalking to you, man.
And I've loved talking to youtoday, man.
I just like, we just always flowand yeah.
Especially with my guestslately, I've just, you know,
like you were saying, sometimesI want like a famous person to
be a guest.
You can't help, but to wantthat, but I've, I've realized I
just need to gravitate towardsthose people that I can just
(01:01:11):
flow with.
I just have naturally coolconversations with, and, and
you're definitely one of thosepeople juice did.
I appreciate that man.
Seriously.
And I feel the same way andjust, yeah, it was the same back
when we were at uh, in Fairfaxchopping it up, you know, it's
just like that.
Energy's there, you've radiateda good energy and I think that's
gonna, you have a way to bringit out to people too.
(01:01:32):
So it's like, even if the personisn't necessarily on your
wavelength, like there's justsomething about you ask good
questions.
I'd be honored to come back on,man.
For real.
Yeah.
We can chop it up and get alittle more in-depth on certain
things and yeah, cause even forme, sometimes when people ask
like, oh, what are you.
I'm like, well, I rap, I makeart.
It's like, there's a lot ofdifferent realms.
So it's like we could kind ofpinpoint some things and really
(01:01:55):
like focus on those.
Or do you want me to talk aboutthose things?
We didn't talk about life andshit.
So, you know, I'm getting, yeah,man.
I mean you and most people arevery multi-dimensional right.
There's not one, one thing.
You can put a label on it.
Rapper and digital artists.
They, those, those don't eventhose don't even do a justice,
probably what you're doing on a,on a regular basis.
(01:02:16):
Exactly.
All right.
Well, thank you, man.
This was awesome.