Acupuncture Explained: Eastern Medicine for Modern Wellness w/ Dr Molly | Ep 89

When Western medicine couldn't explain her debilitating symptoms, Dr. Molly Rhoads took her health into her own hands. What began as a desperate search for relief from Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS) evolved into a profound career shift from aspiring Western physician to dedicated acupuncturist. Her powerful story frames this enlightening conversation about how Chinese medicine offers healing pathways for patients who fall through the cracks of conventional treatment.

Dr. Rhoads demystifies acupuncture for the uninitiated, explaining how our bodies contain energy channels (meridians) that connect to internal organs and carry chi throughout the body. When blockages occur in these pathways—whether from physical trauma, emotional stress, or internal dysfunction—various symptoms manifest. Through precise needle placement along these channels and sophisticated pulse diagnosis techniques, acupuncturists can detect and treat imbalances that often remain invisible to conventional testing.

The conversation explores specific conditions that respond particularly well to acupuncture, including migraines, sleep disturbances, and complex chronic illnesses. Dr. Rhoads reveals fascinating insights, like how the common 1-3 AM wake-up many people experience correlates with the liver's active time in Chinese medicine and typically indicates a stress-related liver imbalance. She also addresses common concerns about needle discomfort, explaining how treatments can be customized for sensitive patients and how even severe conditions can be addressed with gentle approaches.

Beyond acupuncture itself, this episode underscores the value of integrative healthcare approaches that combine Eastern wisdom with Western knowledge. Both practitioners discuss the challenges of maintaining personal wellness routines while balancing demanding careers and family responsibilities—a struggle many driven professionals face. Their candid conversation offers valuable perspective for anyone seeking a more complete understanding of their health and the diverse treatment options available beyond standard medical care.

Ready to explore how acupuncture might address your persistent health concerns? Visit Rhoads to Health Acupuncture online or call 561-800-2281 to learn more about how this ancient healing art can complement your modern wellness journey.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're a driven, active person who wants to reach
and pursue a higher qualitylife with some ambition, then
guess what this podcast is foryou.
This is the Driven AthletePodcast.
What's up?
Y'all?
It's your man, dr Kyle.
Welcome back to the DrivenAthlete Podcast.
Really excited.
Today we got a cool guest, drMolly Rhodes, chinese medicine

(00:21):
practitioner, acupuncturist,correct?
Yeah, so I know you're busy,but with a busy practice, so I
appreciate you coming in.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
So tell us about where you're at, what your
practices and what you all do.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, so my practice is called roads to health,
acupuncture.
Uh, we're located in Juneaubeach and so we're just up the
road here from you in West Palmand um, so primarily we're in
acupuncture practice, also inthe Chinese medicine herbalist.
So I use herbal medicine in mypractice as well, and so that's

(00:53):
the main thing that we're doingis we really focus on the
traditional Chinese medicine,which includes the acupuncture,
the herbs.
We do cupping and a little bitof manual therapy.
But a lot of times I'll referthat out, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
Cool, that's awesome.
And when did you start your?
How long have you been doingthis?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Okay, so let's see.
I started practicing in 2018.
I've been in this locationabout four years four or five
years, yeah, relocated fromSarasota where I started my
practice.
Oh, okay, yeah, In the middleof COVID, so started from
scratch.
A lot of times I say, oh, Imoved my practice and everyone's
like no, you completely likestarted over again Pretty much,

(01:28):
I mean also across the state,like yeah, that's hard.
It was hard.
And in the middle of COVID Iremember some of the doctors
that I was reaching out to whenI first met.
They're like are you sure youwant to do this now?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
I'm like yeah we're just doing it.
That's a great mindset.
I mean like, just do it, youknow, there's no better time
than now.
Absolutely, why not?
Are you from the West Coastoriginally?

Speaker 2 (01:50):
No, I'm actually.
So I'm from, I'm locally.
I'm a South Florida girl, so Igrew up in Palm Beach Gardens
and then we moved.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Was it Gardens?
Yeah, where'd you go to highschool?

Speaker 2 (02:05):
So actually, like, like, we moved when I was in
elementary school so we moved toweston, which is like west like
fort lauderdale area, but mygrandfather still lived up here
so we spent every weekend up in,you know, jupiter, like north
palm area cool so this areaalways felt like home to me even
though we were kind of.
You know, I was going to schooldown there cool yeah.
so, um, you know, did some myschooling in south florida and
then moved around a little bitkind of as an adult in Chicago

(02:27):
and California, and you knowI've been back here in Florida
since 2018 when, you know, wemoved back to practice and
everything.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Where did you go to school?

Speaker 2 (02:37):
So I did my undergrad at University of Miami.
I was pre-med biology major andthen I did my acupuncture
training.
I started at PCOM in Chicagoand then I transferred over to a
school called Emperor's Collegein Santa Monica, california.
Cool so that's kind of how Iended up in those two areas.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Interesting.
Yeah, I went to University ofMiami for PT school.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Oh nice.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
And then my wife went there for undergrad and PT
school Great.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
That's where.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's a yeah, you know UM was fun.
You know it's not a collegetown, you know like it's.
It's way different than some ofmy buddies and friends who went
to Florida state or universityof Florida, as an example, usf,
um everyone said it was likereally fun.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
I spent most of the time in the library, like you're
just studying all the time.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
So and most of the time in the library, like you're
just studying all the time.
So and um is a hard program.
Like it's a hard, yeah, it'srigorous, you know um, but yeah,
that's uh, so you got some goodexposure.
I mean chicago, way differentculture than south florida and
then california, monicaabsolutely.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
It was really interesting for my training too,
because with chinese medicinewe um think a lot about the
environment and how it affectsthe body.
So being being doing sometraining in Chicago and seeing
how, like a cold climate reallyaffects like the conditions that
we see, was really fascinatingbecause a lot of what I learned,
especially in my early days ofschool in Chicago, I'm like I

(03:59):
just don't see those conditionsin, you know, south Florida,
like we don't have as much asthese cold type patterns because
it's just so hot here.
So, it's really interesting howmuch then the environment does
affect our bodies and then howwe treat yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Interesting.
What led you to pursue Chinesemedicine?

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah.
So it's an interesting storybecause, like I said, I was
pre-med when I was in myundergrad.
I always wanted to be a doctor,since I was little, I don't
even remember when it started.
So as soon as they would let me, I started working in hospitals
and following doctors likeshadowing doctors during my
undergrad.
After I graduated, I spent sometime in Nicaragua and Costa

(04:40):
Rica working with local doctors.
So I was like all in like allin with medicine from a very
early age.
And when I was in Nicaragua andCosta Rica I started kind of
like having symptoms of like Iwould like pass out or like not
feel very good kind of thing.
And so when I returned and Iwas about to start Western
medical school, my health kindof just like really declined

(05:04):
pretty quickly.
And Western medicine like noone knew what was going on.
So everyone was like, did youget some sort of tropical
disease while you were overthere?
Because I was living in reallyrural, you know environments
there was a lot of parasites.
Everyone's like, you know, maybeyou have something really weird
that's affect your system.
But kind of like long storyshort, it kind of ended up that

(05:25):
in about four years I wascompletely like bedridden and
debilitated by my health.
And this is the time thatyou're spoke.
You know, your early 20s, I wasabout to start medical school
like everything should be fine.
And so when you get to thatpoint and you experience that
and with Western medicine, Iwent to all the top doctors
everyone was, you know, didevery single diagnostic test.

(05:47):
No one knew what was going on.
And then when I finally did geta diagnosis, then no one really
knew how to treat it.
They're like oh, here's thissyndrome, but we don't really
know how to help you.
Here's like try some of thesemedications.
I would respond really poorlyto any of the medications that
they tried.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
What was the syndrome diagnosis?

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, so my diagnosis is POTS, so it's postural
orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, and it's been a lot more
popular.
I don't know if that's theright word.
It's definitely not the rightword to use, but it seems to be
more commonplace than youthought More common, yeah, and
especially like since COVID andthe vaccinations, it seems like
more people are been educatedabout it, more people are having
the syndrome, unfortunately.

(06:28):
But, and when I was diagnosed,like no one knew what POTS was
and I was at the point where Icouldn't really even like stand
up.
So I would try to stand up, myheart rate would shoot up, my
blood pressure would just dropand I would just, I would just
be out.
And so you know, I worked withsome PTs and I've had some like
great PTs at the time that theywere just coming to my house and

(06:50):
they were like, okay, I guesswe'll just lay you down and try
to exercise and and things likethat, cause I just couldn't
stand up.
But being bedridden at that agetoo, like you lose a lot of
muscle mass, like it's just notgood.
So within my own health journey,I had to look at other options
because I ran out of optionswith Western medicine and I had
to get my life back.

(07:10):
You know, then the option wasnot to get better or to find
other other options.
So I did start usingacupuncture.
I was having a lot of likeneurological symptoms too with
the pot, so a lot of like severemigraines and brain fog and to
the point where it's like Ican't even you're laying in bed
but you can't even like watch tv, you can't even read, you can't

(07:31):
focus enough to do that.
And so acupuncture reallyhelped me a lot with my
migraines in the beginning, andthat was a big moment for me of
like okay, like some of mysymptoms can be shifted without
the use of medications.
Because that was a big momentfor me of like okay, like some
of my symptoms can be shiftedwithout the use of medications.
Cause that was a big part oflike my own journey, as I was.
You know, I would have theselike episodes where I'd feel so

(07:52):
bad and then you know, try thismedication, try this, and
everything just made me so worse, like, so much worse.
Um, so I'm like, no, like, I'mnot like I'm done, like I'm not
doing any more medications, likewhat other options do we have?
So you know, nutrition was ahuge piece, just kind of like.
All the lifestyle changes thatI made were really important.
Acupuncture was a big piece.

(08:12):
I went out to a place in Texasthat did biofeedback training
and that really helped me.
And I did.
I was working with this group.
They were doing specificexercises with astronauts and
because when the astronauts comeback from space they have POTS
a lot of the times, so thiscardiologist realized, hey,

(08:35):
these astronauts have thissyndrome and we treat them, you
know, with these exerciseprotocol, all recumbent.
So that'd be really interestingfor us to talk about too.
Like, if you have POTS patients, like what I've learned with,
like how do you then recoverfrom that?
If you have patients that can'tstand up and do treatments, you
can't just say, okay, you can'texercise because you know you
need to have that, you know thatstrengthening.

(08:56):
So I worked with this, thisgroup that were doing like all
the research with the astronautsand I started doing their
protocol that they started toshift for POTS patients.
So it was a lot of like alllike rowing machine um, you know
, recumbent bike.
Uh, some other like like on theground, like strengthening
exercise and stuff like that,all recumbent, interesting.

(09:17):
So with all that, with myrecovery and then feeling better
and being like, okay, like I'mready to get back into the world
, like I've, you know, kind ofbeen out for a couple of years,
um, I was like, okay, well, I'vealways wanted to be a doctor,
let's go back to medical school.
And then I had this moment andI was like I can't, because the
treatment options that mostWestern medicine physicians have

(09:40):
you're either you know you'represcribing medication, you're
um having surgery, or you knowyou're prescribing medication,
you're having surgery, or youknow you're sending it,
referring out to PT, some ofthese things.
And I'm like I need to be in aprofession that I have more
options, because Westernmedicine can be great for a lot
of different conditions.
But with patients like myself,I fell through the cracks of
Western medicine and I have alot of patients that are like

(10:04):
similar stories than mine, thatyou have these like chronic
health issues or really likecomplex conditions that you know
are not answered by just asingle medication, and so with
acupuncture and Chinese medicine, we can always treat the
patient, which is something thatI absolutely like love because
even if we don't have a Westernmedicine diagnosis, we can

(10:27):
diagnose via like the pulses andthe tongue and what the, what
the person's symptoms are.
Then we have these.
We call them like patterndiagnosis.
So with these patterns, then wehave acupuncture channels and
acupuncture points that then wecan treat.
We have acupuncture channelsand acupuncture points that then

(10:48):
we can treat, and so even if wedon't know that Western
medicine diagnosis, we canalways treat the patient.
Um, so I know we probably needto chat a little bit about like
the channels and whatacupuncture is and stuff too.
But, um, that's one of thereasons why I fell in love with
acupuncture and how I got to itbecause, I really got to it as a
patient because I needed otheroptions.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
That's a super common backstory.
I feel like of like, what gotyou in this profession or this
profession?
This experience led me toappreciate this or not go this
direction, or purpose to go thisdirection.
That's a super common thing.
Yeah, at least you know from asimilar mind on my end too.
So, yeah, explain acupuncture.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about acupuncture.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
So a patient calls you and says hey, I have this
thing going on.
You do acupuncture and they saywhat is acupuncture?
Yeah, what do you say?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
So okay.
So what I say to that is, withacupuncture, we need to start
with the channel system.
So we need to just think of itas like it's just a fact that we
have these acupuncture channels, pathways, meridians there's
different ways to say it runningthrough our body.
So they're running, they coverthe whole body.

(11:57):
So we have channels that aregoing to the leg, that go all
the way up to the head.
We have some that start on thehand and go up to the head.
So these acupuncture channelsare carrying what we call chi,
so that's your energy in yourbody.
So the chi travels through theacupuncture channels and it
balances out your body.
So when someone is perfectlyhealthy and feeling great, the

(12:21):
chi, the energy in the body, ismoving through all these
channels evenly.
Everything's balanced, there'senough energy and everything's
feeling great.
If, let's say, you have, like,a pain condition, the chi is
stuck in these channels so theyjust get blocked.
So first, with acupuncture, wejust have to accept that there
are these channel systems andyou know, we know where they are

(12:44):
, you know we have all thesebooks and they're very specific
channels of where they go, andthen the acupuncture points are
along these channels.
So these channels also connectto the internal organs in the
body.
So let's say, you know we haveone of the meridians is the
stomach meridian.
So the stomach channel works onthe channel system which goes

(13:05):
up the leg.
And so let's say, if we have aspecific like leg pain, I'm
trying to figure out like whichchannel is that on?
Is it on the stomach channel,is it on the gallbladder channel
?
And then we're treating basedon what channels involved.
And also then if it's tyinginto internal organ systems that
we know that they then areleading like the stomach channel

(13:26):
then will actually affect likethe internal stomach and the
digestive system as well.
So with acupuncture we'rereally trying to just create
balance in the body throughusing the acupuncture channels
and then stimulating theacupuncture points.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Does that make any sense?

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, totally so.
Stimulating acupressure pointsto stimulate the particular
channels, to open them up andallow normal organ activity and
allow things for healing.
The question would be on yourend, I guess, with differential
diagnosis of like the painlocation is here, which channel
is the problem?

(14:05):
Yeah and then which organs aredysfunctional.
So what?
What's the chicken or the egglike?
Did the organs getdysfunctional that then cause
the channel to get blocked, ordoes the channel get blocked
that makes the organsdysfunctional?

Speaker 2 (14:16):
that is a fantastic question because the answer is
that it depends, like sometimesit is internal, um, you know
issues that are are going onversus like a you know a more
like muscular, like superficialchannel system and so even.
But they affect each other.
So all the acupuncture channelsthen connect to each other, you

(14:39):
know, through different systemsand different other channels.
Certain channels then like linkup with another channel and
they're paired with other ones.
So these like pathologies canthen like jump channels, because
they're kind of just goingalong, like if you have enough
stagnation or if you have enoughweakness in one channel, then
it'll like lead into and haveissues in the other one.
And with the internal organsystem is that we think of even

(15:03):
the channels as like systems, soyou have the actual channel
itself.
That is like, let's say, youknow we have a channel that's
kind of like running on the handhere, like up to the shoulder,
that then goes up to the face.
So we know that any pathologieslike on this specific channel,
then we're treating that channel.
But then when we're looking atthen how does that like internal

(15:26):
system will then affect thatchannel if it's imbalanced?
It's kind of weird but kind ofcool.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, no, I mean, it's super interesting.
What are some things that wouldlead to channel blockage or
channel involvement?

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, so there's so many different reasons why the
energy in the body gets out ofbalance.
So you know, let's say, ifthere's a external like trauma,
so if you, you know like hityourself or something like that,
like that, that can actuallylike stagnate the channel.
And that's something that alittle bit like easier to kind
of understand in the beginning,because you can see like okay,

(16:05):
like yeah, I hurt this area,then above and below may start
being affected.
Like to us that's like thechannel system.
But then when we think aboutreally what causes imbalances in
the body, it goes a little bitdeeper of you know, like how's
your digestive system function?
Like how's your sleep, how areyour emotions, are you really

(16:26):
stressed?
Because all those things aretypically the source of the
imbalances in the body.
And so with acupuncture andtraditional Chinese medicine,
it's a very like holisticapproach.
So even when I have like painpatients coming in and we're
like okay, great, tell me aboutyour pain, what's your pain
pattern?
Where is it?
Does it feel like dull, does itfeel sharp, all those different

(16:48):
things that we talk about withpain and then I go into, well,
like, how's your sleep?
Like how's you know what's beengoing on?
Are you really stressed?
Because these things all matter.
And when we're treating likethe patient as an individual
because I'm not just treatingneck pain or back pain we're
treating you as a person whothen happened to have that pain

(17:08):
condition.
So all of it is really, youknow, really connected.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, I totally I'm on the train for the mind-body
connection, you know, because,like, no matter what, we can't
separate the mind from the body.
Had some like clinicians comein to mentor and do stuff with
us and like, after 10 years ofpractice, like, what do you feel

(17:34):
like you've gotten, you'veweaned more into with your
practice?
You know, and I'm like, onething I've come to appreciate a
lot be like one of the maindrivers is just the
psychological component of thepain experience and pain
development, lingering pain, howthings develop, and then just
the healing process.
Yeah, because you can't likeit's a fact that, like,
psychological stressors orimpacts can manifest into
physical symptoms.
Absolutely, it's totally proven.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, we see it all.
I mean, I see it every day in mypractice and maybe one of the
most common things that I seefor that and that people can
actually relate to is like trappain, so tightness, like in the
upper back, the shoulders, theneck, um, and the jaw as well,
because people are like, oh yeah, like I'm, when I'm really
stressed, I, you know, you startholding or you start clenching,

(18:17):
and so that's a really goodexample of how the emotions then
tie in, especially when we'rethinking about like a pain
condition.
It's like, yeah, because it'slike directly related, and most
of the time people can, you know, identify those connections to
even on their own, but thathappens with other types of pain
conditions too, and sometimesthat you don't think are related
with other types of painconditions too, and sometimes

(18:38):
that you don't think are related, um, and a lot of times
patients will tell me thatthey're like, oh, I have this,
this pain, and I also have, um,you know this, other stuff going
on, but it's like twocompletely different things and
I'm like Nope, not really.
That's like actually connected.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, yeah.
So people usually reach out toyou if they're in pain of some
sort versus.
I just feel lethargic, like Idon't.
I feel like my, just not mynormal high vitality self, which
one or both?

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, so definitely both.
Acupuncture treats a wide rangeof conditions.
One of the most common thingsthat I get that phone call for
is an acute pain or like achronic pain that is to the
point where it's debilitating,and a lot of times those
patients have tried everythingelse.
So you know they've gone,they've tried maybe different
pain medications or they'vegotten prescription for pain

(19:28):
meds and they don't really wantto take them anymore.
Or maybe someone's recommendingsurgery and they're just not
ready for that step.
So a lot of times I do getcalls like in desperation of
pain and that's a good way toget started with acupuncture,
because acupuncture worksfantastic for pain.
And with a lot of the patientslike I do see like a lot of

(19:50):
complex, like chronic illnesspatients.
That's really pretty common.
So we're talking about likeautoimmune conditions, people
just feeling like you knowoverall, like not themselves.
So I have patients call all thetime.
They're like I just don't feelwell, like I'm tired, I have
digestive issues, I have a lotof anxiety, I'm not sleeping, I
kind of all those things.

(20:11):
That it gets to the point whereit's like really affecting
their lives and I feel likepatients are getting a little
bit smarter and like recognizingthat those things can be
treated and can be treated withacupuncture, right, and so it's
like it's a new era of like I'mgetting calls and people are
saying those things to me.
I feel like maybe I'm just likereally out of balance, like I

(20:33):
hear that a lot, I'm like great,like this is what acupuncture
does.
We just bring the body back inbalance when we're really
keeping it in a very like simpleyou know simple terminology
Like that's all that we're doing, because the body gets out of
balance for a lot of differentreasons.
You know our like work hoursand our stress that is so common
, or everyone's like addictionto social media.

(20:54):
All these things really affectour bodies and our minds and it
gets our chi out of balance.
So, you know, we really look atall those different things and
so I get a lot of calls eitherfor more like the complex, like
chronic illness patients and thepain.
A lot of like migraine headachepatients start hearing about

(21:16):
acupuncture.
But it's interesting becausethe more education we have on
acupuncture and Chinese medicine, then people will know to reach
out for other things.
A lot of times people come infor pain and I'm like, ok, great
, like it's kind of like easy,not as interesting, let's just
take care of it.
But like what's really going on, like that's like my mindset of
, like OK, well, people thinkthat they're feeling okay, but
when you really get into it,everyone will be like, oh no,

(21:37):
I'm fine.
And you get into like, okay,well, what's your sleep?
Like Right.
And then they're like, oh yeah,I wake up, you know, 1 to 3 am
every morning.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Super calm.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
All that and I'm like you know that you don't have to
do that, right, like you cansleep well and you can have like
normal digestion.
Um, the digestion always getsme because patients will be like
, oh, I'm fine, I'll be like, oh, so like, how are your bowel
movements?
They're like, oh, like reallybad.
So I'm like you're telling meeverything's fine, but then when
you think about all theselittle systems, like they're not

(22:08):
like.
People are like not okay, yeah,so you know, and there's ways
to you know treat that.
And I think people just don'tknow that they have options.
Um, and they just learn to likelive with things, because it's
not a bad enough to then be onmedications.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Or even if they're on medications, then well, I know
the blood values usually comeback normal.
Exactly, you're saying likeeverything's negative.
I don't know absolutely that wasa big part of yeah live with it
, you know, or just for fallingthrough the cracks.
I was like, all right, well,we've got to pursue another
option, you know?
Um, that's uh, yeah, the thethe one to three o'clock, like
the 3am wake up.
I hear that all the time Peopleare like, yeah, wake up at two,

(22:43):
33 o'clock and I just stare atthe wall, you know, for two
hours, or I'll just get up andjust go to work, because I
didn't, I'm not, I'm not goingback to sleep.
You know, it can be helped, forsure.
Yeah, you know, but thatdoesn't have to be accepted as a
norm.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah Well, especially what's really interesting with
that 1 to 3 am wake up is thatin Chinese medicine we have this
like a body clock, so all thedifferent organ systems have
like a two-hour block thatthey're kind of like the most
active or it's their time.
So between that 1 and 3 am isthe liver time Interesting.
So the liver in Chinese medicineis the one that's affected the

(23:22):
most by stress.
So that's really common becausewe think about, you know, most
of the time, a lot of probablythe people that are telling you
that are maybe like highfunctioning, so they're not
really like turning their brainsoff and even if they don't feel
that anxiety or that stress, ifthey're waking up in that time
like their liver system isaffected.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
And so, then, what I would do from a Chinese medicine
perspective is either prescribeherbs that are really good at
working on supporting the liversystem or do an acupuncture.
Typically, I'll do bothacupuncture to focus on, like
that liver channel, get thatthat um balance right in the
liver system, and then everyonestarts sleeping better
interesting so that's what'slike really fun about

(24:02):
acupuncture and chinese medicine, because people will say these
like little, like little piecesof yeah, it happens like every
day at this time.
Be like, oh well, that's aspecific organ system like link
right here.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, um, what are some of the herbs for liver?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
so in chinese medicine we mostly use like
herbal I mean.
So in Chinese medicine wemostly use like herbal.
I mean some people use singleherbs, but we usually use herbal
formulas.
So it's a combination ofdifferent like Chinese medicine
herbs and so, depending on theother things that are going on
with a person, we'll typicallycustomize the formula or we have

(24:35):
formulas they're called likepatent formulas that we kind of
have like pre-made that havedifferent herbs that are doing
different functions.
So we usually don't give oneherb of like this is the liver
herb, Like this is the formulathat matches your body and your
pattern.
Diagnosis, like right now and alot of times that will like
change and a lot of like howthen we would determine, let's

(24:59):
say, like what the imbalancesare is like feeling the pulses,
which is really cool and reallyweird.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Explain that.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, so in the Chinese medicine pulse diagnosis
there's lots of different waysto do it, but there's three
different main positions on eachside, ok, and they represent
different organ systems.
So on the right side you havethe lung system, the spleen
system, the kidney system.
On the left side you have theheart, the liver and another

(25:28):
aspect of the kidney.
So essentially, I don't evenneed to talk to you and I would
just feel your pulses and Iwould tell you what you're
feeling.
I don't even need to talk to youand I would just feel your
pulses and I would tell you whatyou're feeling, because each of
those positions we're feelingthe actual imbalances that we
were just talking about, and sowe can feel like, oh, that pulse
feels like weaker than theothers, and and then we know

(25:53):
that then that system is alittle bit deficient, or like
with that one to three am wakeup, I would probably feel on
this position the secondposition, on the left hand like
that pulse is probably going tobe like stronger and like a
little angry, like usually Ifeel like wiry, like really
strong, like if you're likeplucking a guitar string or
something, the pulse in thatposition will feel like that
Interesting, and so that's how alot of times then we will

(26:14):
create herbal formulas becausethat gives us even more insight
of okay, we know that you havethese symptoms, but underline,
is your body like weak, Is it,you know, too strong in
different areas that we need tokind of bring that energy back
into the other systemsInteresting.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, back to the liver.
When we went to the herbs, theherbal blends, blends that would
be helpful for stuff like that.
What's the liver acupressurepoint channel target?

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, so the liver channel.
Liver has its own channelsystem, so it mainly runs on the
leg, kind of the like theinside of the leg, and on the
top of the foot.
One of the main points that Iuse is between the first and the
second toe and you kind of likego up until you kind of feel
the bones, like the metatarsals,and that's one of the really

(27:03):
good acupressure point that weuse and that's a point that I
use a lot to regulate the liver.
It's called liver three andthat it just was a really good
one at regulating the liver.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Interesting.
All right, for you mentionedstomach gallbladder, spleen, yep
.
Where are those channels?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, so the spleen channels on the inside of the
leg too.
So we have channels that arelike more of the yang channels.
So you've heard of like yin andyang.
It's a balance of, you know,different energetics in the body
.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
It's pronounced yang.
Yeah, I didn't know that Yang.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Not yang.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
America yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So the yin and yang, yeah, sowe have different organs that
are like yang channels versusyin channels.
So the yang channels are moreon the outside of the body.
So if you think of like the leg, we have the channels that are
on the lateral, like moving moreon the lateral side of the leg,
and then we have like the yinchannels on the medial side of

(28:00):
the leg.
So that's a big part of likethe diagnosis.
When we're thinking about likepain conditions or things like
that, we're like well, what,what side is it on?
Is it on the outside of the leg, the inside?
Because sometimes people wouldjust say, oh, like my leg hurts,
you're like okay, and sometimesthey'll go to their doctor and
be like, oh, my leg hurts, andlike no one palpates, and feels
like well, actually, what doesthe tissue feel like on the
outside versus the inside?
And I'm sure you notice thatall the time because you're
doing a lot of like manualtherapy and like hands-on with

(28:21):
the patients, which is soimportant.
Um, because most people arelike not touching the patients,
even for like pain conditions.
They're not doing anyevaluations, they'll send them
in for imaging.
Um, but even the orthopedicslike I'm like come on, like
touch your patients.
I know you have thisinformation and this knowledge
just like palpate yeah, um, it'sa five minute.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Five minute quick talk and then, uh, send an
imaging, get the imaging back,don't see anything.
Pain meds, just a script to goto pt or something.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
You know, that's it yeah, because a lot of times,
like we can like for me, likewith my training, I've learned
to like, palpate the channelsand like the tissues so we can
feel, um know, we can feel ifsomething's tight, like all you
know, a patient will tell methat they have like upper back
pain and I start palpating alongthe channel and I'll find like
really strong, like triggerpoints and they're like how did
you find that?
I didn't have pain there?
I'm like, yeah, I'm justfollowing the channel, and if

(29:09):
anyone would palpate you, theywould know that this is more a
muscle issue versus, you know,tying into.
You know, like if they havearthritis or if they have other
like structural issues that areseen on imaging.
Because we see that all thetime in clinic that it's like,
okay, people come in and likethey have stenosis or they have
arthritis, and immediatelyeveryone's like okay, that's

(29:31):
what's causing the pain.
It's like, well, yes, that canbe a pain generator, but a lot
of times then the muscles getinvolved.
So if you know if someone wouldlike palpate, then you'd feel
like, oh, this muscle is likenot doing what it's supposed to
do, like let's do someacupuncture, let's send you for
some PT so that then it's more.
You know you get the treatmentfor the real like pain source,

(29:52):
for what you're feeling rightnow.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Yeah, totally yeah, but more source for what you're
feeling right now.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, totally Um, but more like the underlying root
cause.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , um, the uh.
People would always ask too.
I would imagine um, what doesit feel like?
You know?
Like oh, I'm going to gobetween this first and second
toe and we're going to feel thebones between the metatarsals,
right, it's like oh, man, I'msure for some people that would
be yeah, well, the point's likenot right at the bone.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
I just like I palpate where the structures are and
then that kind of tells me wherethe points are.
Um, but that's a great question, because a lot of people will
call me and they're, like youknow, desperate.
They're like I'm in a lot ofpain but I hate needles yeah
like I don't want needles orI'll have patient.
I'll talk to patients andthey're like I really really
need to send my dad in or mybrother in, but they will not
come because they're so scaredof needles.
But the acupuncture needles areso tiny, like they're so thin.

(30:41):
I know you do a little dryneedling so you're familiar with
the needles too.
They're so thin and you know,sometimes you may feel the
points a little bit, but itshouldn't be painful.
I actually practice a very likegentle style of like needle
technique too, so the majorityof the times like patients don't
even feel the needles go in.
I'll be like okay, you're ready.
First one's going in andthey're like did you do it?

(31:04):
like yeah, like the needle's init's fine, we're good yeah, so,
um, that piece of like theactual acupuncture treatment is
not something that like peopleshould be afraid of or worried
about yeah um, and there's alsodifferent techniques of like
okay, if people are like alittle needle sensitive or like
really nervous, then we just uselike fewer points, like there's
different ways that we cantreat.

(31:25):
We have so many differentoptions.
Like we're individualizing itto your needs, like what your
pain patterns are, what?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
you're comfortable with what you're comfortable
with.
I would imagine you would ramplike we can add more needles
next time.
Yeah, progress as appropriate.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah absolutely Like these, like all the treatments,
and I'm sure with you too, it'snot like what, what exercises,
what PT like, what acupunctureneedles like do I want to put in
today?
Like I want to.
You know, we learn about someof these, all these like really
cool points and protocols, butif, like the patients like don't
need it, if it doesn't fit, fitlike we're not going to do it,
so every patient, then we're youknow, we're looking at you and

(31:57):
figuring out like okay, how manyneedles can you tolerate?
Maybe if someone's energy isreally low, like I, can only do
like two or three needlesbecause we just have to like
build their chief, or and dosome herbs might be enough today
absolutely, so yeah we have aum, uh, I want to talk about the
um diseases, systemic problemsin a second.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
But I have a patient that I've been seeing this
patient for like a kind of along time.
But they have vasovagal syncope, yeah, and every time they get
blood work or any kind ofneedling like they just pass out
.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
And I was like, well then, we won't be doing that,
you know.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, and they just describe like it's not anything
they can control.
They just, they just end upbeing like I can feel myself,
like calm down, you know,everybody, relax, don't put any
more needles in me if they'relike taking blood or whatever
and like, no, you'll be fine,and she passes out.
Yeah, and the doc's like oh god, and like she wakes up and
she's like confused, prettyconfused.
Yeah, it's like I told you, youknow?

Speaker 2 (32:55):
yeah, just listen to me just listen and I think
that's a big thing is likepeople are not listening to the
patients because even if theydon't have the same terminology
of us, like they kind of knowtheir bodies, or at least we're
trying to train people to knowtheir bodies.
Um so like with that patient ofyours, like her nervous system
is probably really sensitive.
So and that's something I see alot with like my complex, like

(33:16):
chronic illness patients likethe nervous system is just a
little bit out of balance.
That was one of my big issues,um, you know, when I was going
through my health stuff is thatmy nervous system was just so
reactive.
So even with me, I meansometimes when I would get
acupuncture I would just passout, which is like more unusual,
like every once in a while ithappened.
I probably passed out inacupuncture treatments more than
like anyone else.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Really.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Because people also, even acupuncturists, don't
always understand like thedosage of the needling.
So I've had to learn thatbecause of my own experience and
I've had all these like verysensitive patients.
So it's like how do we get themtreatments without triggering
that response?
Because that doesn't feel good.
We don't really.
We don't want anybody passingout, but it would be interesting
.
I would actually be reallyinterested to treat her and see

(33:58):
if we can regulate her nervoussystem in a very gentle way
without triggering that response.
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, it would be super interesting to see what
happens.
Yeah, do you see people withvasovagal syncope?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I have, and it's similar to POTS, because
with POTS it's also kind of likea dysregulation to the
autonomic nervous system.
So when you get those bigresponses like the autonomic
nervous system is what'sinvolved.
And what's fascinating aboutacupuncture is that, regardless
of if we're treating pain, ifwe're treating digestive issues
or sleep, we're tapping into thenervous system, especially the

(34:33):
autonomic nervous system.
So we're reallydownregulatingulating that
sympathetic, fight-or-flightresponse so that so many people
are in just all the time becauseof the world we live in.
But especially in conditionslike that, like the nervous
system is really sensitive.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Right.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
So we want to regulate that so she can get
like stronger and be a littlebit more resilient.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Right, yeah, systemic pathologies, chronic Lyme
disease, that's a, that's a Ihad.
I've had a handful of patientsthat have described that and I'm
like that's not my, like it's,I'm here for, you know, joint
musculoskeletal,neuromusculoskeletal pain,
biomechanics, joint pain, muscleweakness, joint mobility,

(35:12):
imbalances, whatever, and thenprogressing with like activity,
sports and stuff, yeah, but likethat's, I can't do anything
about that.
But I'm going to do my lanewith what I can help you with.
But anyway, they described thata lot and they've described a
lot of frustration and confusionand, like nobody can help me, I
was shunned by the medicalsystem, the allopathic, medical,
you know system.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
Yeah, what have you seen with that?
Yeah, it's really interestingbecause I do have a lot of
patients with chronic Lyme.
They kind of like tie in with alot of like other like
autoimmune, like conditions thatpeople can't really just put
their fingers on from a Westernmedicine perspective.
Right, because it's socomplicated and it involves so

(35:51):
many different systems andespecially that, like chronic
fatigue and like the brain fogthat comes a lot with these
patients, they don't have a lotof options with Western medicine
unless things are like caughtearly and then they do different
protocols to treat it.
And it's definitely somethingthat we're seeing more of, and I

(36:11):
don't know if it's just becausepeople are being diagnosed a
little bit better with it, butit seems like there's a lot of
chronic Lyme patients.
From a acupuncture standpoint.
We're really trying to then justgo back to the basics of.
I'm always really interested inthe Western medicine diagnosis
with my background and likewhatever information that we can
get then gives us power to helplike treat the patients, of

(36:33):
course, but sometimes, like inthese like chronic, like complex
, like weird um, you knowconditions that people are
having, all these differentsymptoms.
Then I go back to the basics ofwhat is the traditional chinese
medicine, like diagnosis,because sometimes, like, we
don't have good answers with,like a lyme diagnosis, or like
bartonella, and you know some,some of these other, you know,

(36:56):
like pathogens that are thencreating, you know, more chronic
illnesses.
So going back to reducinginflammation in the body is huge
for these patients and reallytrying to like support the
energetics of their body,support their immune system,
balance out the nervous system,because you know, a lot of these
patients didn't have likeneurological symptoms, like
associated with it too, right.

(37:16):
So, you know, supporting themin a very like holistic way is
something that I see is verybeneficial to these patients.
Um, you know, as everyone'sstill trying to build like from
a functional medicine standpointand you know western medicine,
like, what do we, what can we doto treat these patients like
you, you know, for me it's likeI'm just going back to the
basics, like what have we knownfor thousands of years to like

(37:38):
treat these patterns, even if wedidn't have the same name for
it in like our traditional?

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Chinese medicine like books and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, um, do youand Dr Danielle and Dr Joey and
that crew do y'all collaboratewith patients pretty often?

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Yeah, they're awesome at Wellness First and they do.
They're seeing a lot of likechronic Lyme patients right now
and so we have a lot of mutualpatients and it's just really
great to like work togetherbecause you know it's a team
effort, especially with thesepatients.
Like I wouldn't want to betreating these patients just on
my own with acupuncture, becausesometimes they need other
support and like if we're you,you know, if there's iv

(38:13):
therapies that are beneficial,like benefiting these patients,
like, why would we not do thaton top of?
like what we're doing, or makingsure they're moving their
bodies and making sure they'reseeing you and um, you know,
very like holistic approaches.
Especially with these likechronic illness patients is is
100 key to the recovery.
You have to hit it from allangles yeah, yeah, yeah, totally
no, that's good.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, that's a.
I think that I mean teamapproach and also just the
mindset of, like one of my petpeeves, I would say, is someone
who's like no, I got this.
Like this is like let's keep itall here.
Yeah, like you know, get overyourself, like there's other
people that have otherexperiences and expertise that
can maybe bring some things tothe table different perspectives
and stuff.
Yeah, that's just one of my petpeeves.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah, I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
And I'm like it's an ego problem, it's a bottom line
when I'm like, even arguing asan example, with the chronic
Lyme disease, I would imagine inlike the 90s, early 2000s I
could see very knowledgeabledocs that are very experienced
and stuff.
They're like I don't understandthis, this is out of my.
I don't understand, you know,you're, you're just, it's not
part of my medical, it's not,it's made up.

(39:18):
You know.
It's like well, you just don'tunderstand it.
Maybe it's not, it's made up.
Right, it might not be outsideof your scope right now.
You know where can we referthis person to a different?
So that's a really common thingthat I've heard with people
Like when I hear acupuncture, Iusually think of digestive

(39:40):
problems and then headaches.
Yeah, what's the?
Migraine, headache, channels,pathways.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, so the main one that I see with migraines is
the gallbladder channel, whichalso is tied to the liver
channel too.
But the gallbladder channelruns kind of from tied to the
liver channel too.
But the liver, the gallbladderchannel, runs kind of from the
back of the head here, runs kindof throughout the whole body,
but it kind of crosses up overand goes like towards that eye
and then kind of circles backaround.
So that system is the one thatI probably treat the most often

(40:11):
for like a true migraine.
That's kind of like one-sidedpeople start feeling in their
eye.
That's like gallbladder channel, and what's interesting is that
patients typically will liketrace the channel like I have
the pain from here and thensometimes it goes back.
I'm like, yeah, that's, that'sthat the acupuncture channel?
Um, so with migraines that'sgoing back to even what we're
talking about with pain is thatit's a stagnation in the channel

(40:34):
Most of the time.
Sometimes it's coming from adeficiency, to like if there's
not enough shear blood in thechannel, then you know that can
create stagnation.
But a lot of times, if we thinkof it just as you know, those
channels are like blocked andthen you have like severe pain
and then you get some of theneurological symptoms and
everything that we just need toopen up the channels.
So, migraine patients I lovegetting migraine patients in

(40:56):
because it's so debilitating andacupuncture works so well with
it too, and pretty quickly.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
And a lot of times with migraine patients, they'll
text me.
They'll be like I can't get in,like it started and I'm like,
get here.
I'm like I don't care.
Like you know, have someonecome and get you in here because
it helps so much, especially tostop the cycle of patients that
are in migraines for you know,like three or four days, or if
they end up taking some of theirWestern med drugs just because
they have to function, then theyget in these cycles of you know

(41:27):
it'll go away and then it comesback, like a day and a half
later or something, and thenyou're in the cycle.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Perfect, take more meds.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
I know, but that's what happens.
They get in the cycle and, yeah, and really trying to figure
out, like what's the root causeof the migraines that they're
having.
So that's where it comes into,you know, like the pulses and
everything else that's going onin their body that we're talking
about before that we kind of gothrough, is that, you know, how
do we then prevent them?
My, how do we then prevent them?
My goal is for migrainepatients to like not have to
have a migraine for them to comein for.
Like how do we just stop them?
Right, and a lot of times, likeI forget some of my patients

(42:00):
that I have all the time, likethey first came in for migraines
because we don't even talkabout them anymore, because we
just treat them and we starttreating other things, yeah, so
I definitely yeah, acupunctureworks really well for migraine.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
You find the treatment protocol, the
treatment pathway, no punintended, is for migraines,
usually gallbladder related,yeah, and then the herb.
I would imagine an herbal blendthat would be supportive of the
gallbladder channel, maybe theliver channel, cause they're
connected, so yeah,interconnected.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
And then exercise Like, do you feel like the
people that can add, exercisewith that is for blood flow and
opening absolutely yeah, themovement is so important and I
tell people that's one of theways to move the chi without an
acupuncture needle is to likephysically move your body,
because when you do that you'removing the blood, you're moving
the chi and all that kind ofcirculates together.
So that's one of like a bighomework that I have.

(42:55):
For my patients is like youcan't just come in and you know
I'll give you treatments andthen you just go back to your
normal, your normal life ifthey're, you know, not moving
and they're not taking care ofthemselves.
So you have to incorporate thatand that's a good way to you
know, especially we're talkingabout like migraines and
headaches to then prevent um,you know you feel things coming
on like get your body movingyeah um, and I, like you know,

(43:18):
patient to put like heat kind oflike on their neck and their
upper back, a lot of migrainepatients like the cold because
it it feels better like in themoment.
But you know, especially if youfeel stuff going on like make
sure that your neck is likeloose your traps, your shoulders
are down, because if you keeptightening things up then
there's more and more stagnationbuilds and then you know, then
you have a migraine and then youalso have a tension headache on

(43:39):
top of that, because now you're, you know everything's really
tight and then all the chi islike blocked in the channels.
Then you just have more painyeah so and then also like
trying to regulate your nervoussystem and just staying like
calm with headaches too, becausepeople, you know severe
migraines you feel it coming on,and then you get that anxiety
around it too, of like, oh no,I'm supposed to go to work or
I'm supposed to pick up my kid,and you know, you know what's

(44:01):
coming so trying to prevent isthe best and then getting
flooded with social mediacontent.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
You know, yeah, world's ending all that stuff
yeah, just really good for us?
It's not.
It's so crazy and yeah, this isweird.
It's just crazy how it's gonethat direction.
You know how influential, andjust the direction it's gone.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
But just another golden BB that adds into the
tips of scale.
You know.
Yeah absolutely, I totally.
Yeah.
Do you ever needle yourself?

Speaker 2 (44:28):
I do needle myself.
I needle myself a lot becausewith my schedule right now, like
busy clinic schedule I haven'tbeen able to just go myself and
get a full acupuncture treatmentfor someone else.
So I, you know, if I have a fewminutes between a patient or at
the end of the day, stick a fewneedles in, lay down for a few
minutes and Cool.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yeah, it's great, yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
I need to be doing it more.
I probably should treat myselfevery week.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, do you have a particular clinician locally
that you'd like to go to?

Speaker 2 (44:54):
I haven't really been going to other practitioners
and I need to find someonebecause I was telling you before
like I'm a little sensitive toneedles, so even I'm a little
like wary of other peopleneedling me because of just how
busy the schedule is.
I can't afford to like then beout for two days, because that's
what would happen to me before,like if I get too strong with

(45:15):
treatment, like my body's sosensitive, and then it's like
not like oh, I don't feel good,like no, like I'm, I'm done for
like two days.
So that's why I needle myself,and a lot of times I needle
myself for a shorter amount oftime.
So instead of, let's say,normally I leave needles in for
a patient for like 20, 25minutes at first and if I notice
that they really like theyreally, you know, like to kind
of get deeper, it takes themlonger I'll leave them in for

(45:37):
like 30, 35 minutes.
But I have some patients thatare sensitive, like me, in like
15 minutes, 15 minutes max.
So if you leave them in more,then they may not feel well,
especially with someone liketheir chronic Lyme patients and
stuff.
Their bodies are more sensitive, so-.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Would you are more sensitive, so would you do like
for yourself, where it's like Igot between patients, do a three
minute needle and then again,an hour later, three minutes.
Hour later, three minutes.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
That would be a great idea.
I probably should do that.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Um, so maybe like the three minutes times 10, it's a
30 minute total time window ofthat needling being in there.
Has that been?
Is that something y'all do?
No, I mean short time long,high frequency.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Yeah, I think, with yes in the scale of what you
were just talking about, likethat's a great idea for me and
I'm like I think I shouldn't eaton myself like that, because I
think my body would respondreally well like that.
But with certain patients theyneed like kind of like the micro
dosing of the acupuncture andso being like, ok, we're going

(46:36):
to do 15 minutes, but you know Ineed to see you back next week
or, you know, at the end of theweek.
So we get like two or threetreatments and majority of my
patients I see once a weekregularly, probably about like
four to six weeks.
If we're kind of like workingon like one specific condition A
lot of times if it's like amore like acute pain or
something a little bit moreserious or, you know, a little
bit heavier, then I'll see himlike two or three times a week
for the first like two weeks,and then we reevaluate.

(46:58):
It's like do you, you know, doyou need to come in twice a week
?
You know, do we need to justkind of, you know, go back to
once a week, because I reallydon't want my patients to have
to rely on me.
No-transcript need that likeokay, great, we need to get you

(47:42):
in so that then I don't have tosee you, instead of dragging it
out, like if you really needtwice a week treatments and
we're just doing once we'redoing every other week.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
I you know, it's just going to take longer to get the
results.
Yeah, interesting.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Yeah, what do you do for your own health and wellness
regimen?
Yeah, that's a really goodquestion.
So I do.
Incorporate acupuncture in umdiet is a huge um piece.
So we have a pretty like boringdiet.
So we're eating just likeprotein veggies.
I personally need like somecarbs, like if I don't have
carbs, then I don't.
You know, I don't feel good.
So mostly our diet is like rice, chicken, fish, veggies.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
And then I bring whatever I had for dinner, I
just bring it for lunch.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Like really boring, it's pretty much the same, but
it's good, I mean, and it's alsolike for me.
I'm pretty sensitive to my diettoo, so I can't have a lot of
sugar Gluten, I can kind of playwith a little bit, but I've
just I just know that I'msensitive to it too, so I have
to stay really good on my dietor else, you know, everything
else starts falling apart.

(48:43):
Sleep is a huge thing for me.
Like I know personally, like Ineed a lot of sleep.
I encourage, like most of mypatients, like that's a huge
thing, that we, you know, try tofocus on Um, cause that's when
your body is restoring all thechi and the blood and all the
organ systems.
Um, and then all the Westernmedicine side of what we know
that sleep does too.
It's just so important.
So, like preserving sleep is isone of the big things that I

(49:06):
have to do.
Um, let's see acupuncture.
I do get chiropractic care.
My husband's a chiropractor, soI have in-house service, which
is great.
That really has helped me.
I've had like headaches andmigraines and things like that
in the past too, so that'ssomething that really helps me
with like maintenance, yeah, andlike movement.
I'm kind of like in this phasewhere I'm trying to figure out

(49:27):
what that movement looks like,because, just even like
logistically, I have an almostthree-year-old and a busy
practice and you're trying tofigure out like okay, like how
do we do all these things?
And sometimes we can't do allof it all at once.
So for me, like preserving, youknow, like with the acupuncture
and the sleep, and I do like alot of guided meditation, that's

(49:50):
really helpful for me, evenjust like 15 minutes, 10, 15
minutes, like I'll do that also.
Like at the, you know, in myclinic, a lot of the things that
I have to do, I have to do themat work because like if I get
home, then it's just, it's allover, because then you're in a
different, you're in like kidmode um totally

Speaker 1 (50:05):
yeah it's funny.
You say that that's exactlywhat I say.
It's like as soon as I get home, everything's over.
Yeah, it's all over.
Yeah, I've got three kids yeahit's all over.
Yeah, I've got three kids.
Yeah, it's rough.
So, yeah, three-year-old foryou.
I mean like, yeah, you get it.
Um, it's, it's over.
Yeah, it's such a bad thing,like my wife's.
Like what do you mean?
It's not over?
You're not here for family time.
I guess what I mean is, like myproductivity for other things

(50:25):
is completely done.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah, you just have to know that you know when you
walk in the door and that's alsoa choice too, to be like
present, Like you could be thereand then try to be doing stuff,
but then you're not presentwith your kids.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
It's terrible.

Speaker 2 (50:36):
So it's like, especially like I know you have
little kids too, so it's one ofthose things.
It's like they're only littlefor this period of time, so it's
like knowing that like this isit, we're just going to have to
like be in the grind a littlebit and know that when you full
attention right so you know,trying to fit in um, even just
like self-care and businessstuff and patient stuff, like

(50:56):
you know, where does that allfit in?
I mean, it's right, yeah there'sonly, there's only enough time
in the day, but trying to figureout, I think too it goes back
to like, as an individual, likewhat each person like needs to
be like functioning like theirbest yeah, um, what's the
priority for this person?
Yeah, yeah, because likesometimes people like out of
agents like they have to go tothe gym every day, like if

(51:17):
they're not in the gym likethey're, they're not happy like
they don't feel good, likemental health is off.
Yeah, um, for me, like I can getaway with not doing that and
that's not a good thing, becausethen I kind of like it's like,
uh, lower on the list of like myself-care which needs it needs
to come up on the priority alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yeah, yeah um, I uh totally the thing that.
What do we do, like there'sonly so much hours in the day?
Yeah, um sacrificing somethingelse you know, without
sacrificing your sleep becauseit's so important.
But then you gotta get stuffdone and if you didn't get
everything done because you'reso busy at work, then it's like
all right, then after the kidsgo to bed, then then we can
knock out some stuff.
But yeah, I mean like, what Ifound I sacrifice, I mean social

(51:57):
life.
Yeah, don't do any, like Idon't do anything.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
You know, and then entertainment, like other than,
maybe you know, doom scrollingfor a little bit to wind down
before bed, which is not a greatidea.
It's a hard, it's a hard, it'sa hard one.
I don't all the time, but umyeah, but that's it.
You know, it's like TV movies,dinner, nate date nights, like

(52:20):
social life.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, nothing, you know, I know I'm with you on
that.
It's hard, but it's like seeingthat that, like this is just a
period of time, and like knowingthat you know there you're
making these like choices sothat you can be present for you
know, your kids and yourbusiness.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
I'm asking like what would I want?
You know what I mean.
Like, oh darn, I can't watchfootball, or like watch movies
and stuff.
Like what would you rather have?
Oh, my little kids, and likeactually focus on them, that's
way more important.
Yeah, like, yeah, totally Forsure.
When I trade that, yeah, theother part I feel like I
struggle with is um, you tell meyour your thoughts on this too
is being home, being present,but mentally still thinking

(52:56):
about other things.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
You know, um, if I'm like man focus, you know like
just let that go and just focuson building blocks right now.
Or erasing the cars.
You know like that's what weneed to coloring.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
You know that's what we need to focus on right now.
Yeah, it's hard because,especially like as a business
owner too, like there's alwaysthings to think about.
So, you think about businessstuff, you think about like your
patients, and then you knowlike what you need and you know
all the things like to do listis like endless.
So you know, I think the bigpart of that is like putting the
phone away, because sometimes,like, if you just like, oh, if

(53:31):
you like check a message, or youlike check your email, and like
see that I try to like justcompletely put my phone away
when I'm like I just put in likethe drawer with the keys, um,
that doesn't always happen, butit's like trying to just be like
no, like, because it's sotempting.
Yeah, because then you'd belike, oh, maybe I can just read
this or maybe I can just sendthe email.
Um, just, real quick.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
There's one last thing.
Exactly I gotta write this downbecause one more thing oh, I
forgot this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then justruminating over like, okay,
tomorrow you do this, I need todo that yeah yeah, it's not good
yeah um, yeah, we do the samething.
Like I try to put my phone downand, just like usually, I try to
tell people, like if it'sbetween five 4 30 or five until
8 30, I'm usually just mia, yeah, and then I won't respond until

(54:12):
the next morning because it'slike eight 30 and it's like, oh,
I've got the pits of bed, I'vegot to clean up the house, do
some dishes, take a shower andI'm going to bed.
Yeah, wake up the next day,start over again, right away.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
And it's like, oh, I didn't get to my messages till
10 AM.
Yeah, the next day.
Yeah, a patient.
it's like, immediately get rightback, because that's what I
want to do, like that's the carethat I deliver to you want
people to know that you're youknow, thinking about them and
stuff responsive, yeah, and thenjust but realizing it's okay,
because now you know everyoneexpects like a, an instant
response, because everyone knowsthat you have your phone with
you all the time.

(54:50):
Um, and just being like no,it's like retraining of, like
it's okay, like I can get backto that in the morning, it's not
an emergency.
So I think that's somethinglike as individuals, we have to
like start setting thoseboundaries and figuring out what
that is.
I mean, if you're somethingthat you really need to call,
you really need to take, youhave to do it.
But if things can wait, likemake it wait.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
And trying to like block the schedule of like in
the morning, if you know.
Okay, this is if I need to likeplay a little catch up.
Do you have 10 minutes in themorning that you can do that?
Right, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Sure, well, thanks for coming in.
Thank you so much.
Well, we'll have to get you inagain for more topics and stuff.
Yeah, maybe specific diagnosesand specific like systemic stuff
.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Treatment protocols for those specific things too.
But anyway, but what's what'sthe best way people can reach
out to you, like, how can theyfind you?
Yeah, so you can find us on ourwebsite, roadstohealthcom, so
it's R-H-O-A-D-S-T-O-healthcom,or give us a call at
561-800-2281.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Social media too Like .

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Yeah, I do.
I don't really do social mediathat much, but you can find us
at roads to health.
Um, that's our handle onInstagram.
Cool yeah, awesome.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, thanks again for coming in and if y'all have
any questions, comments,concerns, conflicting opinions,
like we're always open to ideasand suggestions and stuff and if
you have any pain yourself thatlike musculoskeletal,
neuromusculoskeletal pain thatyou feel like we can help you,
we'd love to at least talk onthe phone, um, and y'all can
reach us on Instagram website orour email team at athleteRCcom.
It's probably a great way toreach us.

(56:16):
Thanks again for coming in andwe'll catch y'all next time.