Functional Medicine & Root Cause Healing w/ Dr. Danielle and Dr. Joey | Ep 87

Ever been told "your labs look normal" while still feeling terrible? You're not alone. In this illuminating conversation with Dr. Danielle and Dr. Joey from Wellness First in Juno Beach, we dive deep into the world of integrative medicine and why the conventional approach often misses the mark for chronic health issues.

These forward-thinking physicians explain how they've structured their practice to spend meaningful time with patients, collaborating to uncover the underlying causes of persistent health problems. From chronic Lyme disease and environmental toxins to hormone imbalances and cortisol dysregulation, they share practical insights about the complex factors affecting our health that standard testing might miss.

What sets this episode apart is the fascinating exploration of treatment approaches you might not have heard about. Learn how ozone therapy works to combat inflammation and support healing, why the right type of magnesium matters for different health concerns, and how peptide therapies can target specific healing processes. The doctors also offer refreshingly balanced perspectives on controversial treatments like GLP-1 medications for weight loss, highlighting both benefits and potential pitfalls.

Perhaps most compelling is their discussion of the mind-body connection. "The patient is the hero of the story—they have everything they need within them to get better," Dr. Danielle explains, emphasizing how psychological factors and past trauma can manifest as physical ailments. This holistic perspective acknowledges that healing often requires addressing not just physical symptoms but also "matters of the heart."

Whether you're a health optimization enthusiast or someone struggling with chronic symptoms that conventional medicine hasn't resolved, this episode offers valuable insights into finding your path to better health. Visit wellnessfirstjunobeach.com to learn more about their testing options and integrative approach.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're a driven, active person who wants to reach
and pursue a higher qualitylife with some ambition, then
guess what this podcast is foryou.
This is the Driven AthletePodcast.
What's up?
Y'all?
It's your man, dr Kyle.
Welcome back to the DrivenAthlete Podcast.
We got two really cool guestswith us.
We got Dr Danielle and Dr Joeywith us from Wellness First in

(00:21):
Juneau Beach.
So thank you guys for coming on.
I know y'all are busy busyprofessionals seeing patient
stuff, but thanks for coming in.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you for having me here.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes, thank you.
So tell us more about WellnessFirst, and where y'all are
located and what y'all do.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Wellness First is located in Juneau Beach, like
you said, and we are a conciergeintegrative primary care
practice and that's a mouthful,but really what we're just
trying to do is to create anopportunity to spend more time
with our patients.
We see primary care as a greatability to treat the whole

(00:56):
individual, and so it's Joeymyself and there are two other
providers there who are alsoosteopaths Joey's a naturopath
and there are three osteopathsJoey's a naturopath and there
are three osteopaths there and Ilike to just tell our patients
that like, or people that areconsidering our practice, that
we're doctors that thinkdifferently than I think
conventional medicine orconventional specialists.

(01:19):
We're really committed tofinding the why behind why
patients aren't at their optimalhealth, and so I think the four
of us really all are verycommitted to that answer, to
finding the why, and it's coolbecause we all kind of have our
own individual interest andniches that really, I think,

(01:45):
work well together to reallycare for patients from a very
comprehensive standpoint.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, and when did you get on board with them?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
I got on board just over three years ago now.
So, about three and a halfyears ago.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
That's cool.
And, as a naturopathic doctor,right, the lens, like what makes
you all unique?
You said like we look at thepatient differently, especially
from your end.
Right, what does that look like?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, specifically in naturopathic medicine, we're
really trained to find the rootcause.
So we're not a systems basedapproach, and I work with three
other providers that alsobelieve in the same three other
providers that also believe inthe same outlook.
So what's really cool about us,too, is that we connect, and a

(02:29):
lot of spaces don't do that.
You have your patients and youwork with those patients.
We know our different strengthsand specialties and we all get
together, and if there's apatient that's having some
really difficult times, we'llget together and give all four
insights onto it.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yeah, so collaborating.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
We collaborate all the time, Um, and it's really
unique.
I I learned something every dayfrom my coworkers and hopefully
I can contribute to their plansas well.
So, uh, specifically withnaturopathic medicine, we really
do first do no harm and we lookfor the root cause.
So we dig deeper.
It doesn't matter to me whatyou've been diagnosed with,
necessarily it's a systems basedapproach.

(03:06):
Of course, if there'sinflammation, you know you can
throw medications at it, but Iwant to know what's causing the
inflammation.
What's deeper than that we findout it could be something when
you were seven years old thathappened to you and we will find
it and we will address that.
And oftentimes that's like thefirst layer of the onion that
just starts to unraveleverything.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Like what?
Like what's something thatcould happen, like at seven
years old or like 10 years old,that could send a cascade of
events.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
So typically what I do see a lot is like over
antibiotic use, to be honest, inchildhood Interesting.
That causes a lot of gut issues.
It causes a lot of immuneimbalances and so we see just
chronic gut issues that thesepatients have been given, you
know, miralax or Exlax theirwhole life, rather than really
figuring out what's going onthere and restoring the gut

(03:55):
health.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Interesting, can trigger underlying genetic
predispositions that then areexpressed and then down the road
from that point forward, just acascade of you know, of events
that happen, and symptoms thenwill progress.
So then they're 30s and it'slike they're feeling way
different.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
They're epigenetics, right, so we turn those off and
on what we do every day,environmental toxins and
exposures too.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
So where you grow up, the stress you grew up around,
and absolutely medications andoveruse could be part of that um
, we'll get into this, like I'mI'm a natural hobbyist, I think,
with with uh, pain science andjust stress, anxiety and home
environments and stuff.
We'll get into that later.
Um, I think it's just superinteresting but how it affects

(04:45):
like the mind body connectionand stuff, um.
So and with um something I'veheard with a patient recently
that a couple patients, actuallylike a handful of patients
where they've had like chronicjoint pain, hypermobility issues
, definitely nothing's reallyhelping.
They're very sensitive withlike exercise and movement and
stuff, but they were describedlike a chronic Lyme disease in

(05:08):
the past which that's been notwidely recognized from my
understanding in the medicalspace.
Is that correct?
But explain, yeah, explain,chronic Lyme disease.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Chronic Lyme is just so underdiagnosed and it is
definitely getting you know.
It's heyday now it's beingrecognized more, but it used to
be and there are still manypractitioners that think you,
you get a Lyme bite, you treatit with doxy for 10 days and
you're off on your own, andthese patients just have this
cascade of illnesses that happenafter that.

(05:44):
And what we are finding too isthat maybe you did okay when you
were 20 and you got bit by Lyme.
You did some antibiotics toprevent major growth and then
all of a sudden you're 55 andyou got COVID, or you were
unwell or you maybe got rebit,whatever it may be, and your
immune system is just so workedup and inflammatory and we're

(06:08):
really looking and seeing a lotof these biotoxin illnesses.
So the Lyme offsets a bunch ofother conditions in the body and
a chronic state of inflammation.
So yeah, it's something that wetreat a lot at Wellness.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
First, so chronic Lyme would still be originally
from like a tick bite yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Okay, and it just prolongs and lingers it prolongs
Yep, it prolongs lingers, itcan grow, it can stay in what
they call a persister phase,where it's just like it hides
from antibiotics too.
So you have to get reallycreative.
There's really cool testing now, which I could really go down a
rabbit hole with you if youwanted to, but you can actually
see it.
You know, on blood smears nowTesting used to be that was kind

(06:53):
of what made Lyme verydifficult.
It was we didn't have greattests for it, so it was
extremely underdiagnosed, eventhough we were seeing 20 year
old women with debilitatingsymptoms and they were being
told it was all in their head.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
And I had a friend that it happened to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
I mean like that's a classic story I've heard.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Where it's like everything's coming back
negative.
We don't see anything.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
You know, maybe consider seeing a psychologist.
Yeah Well, like well, what dowe?
You know, what do you do?

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, so anyway, the testing for identification has
been great over the last fewyears, but even in terms of
eradication confirmingeradication, because now we know
we need to make sure it'sactually gone- yeah, so then
what does the treatment looklike?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
like?
What do y'all do?

Speaker 2 (07:36):
oh, treatment really is customized depending on the
person.
Antibiotics are definitely apart of the protocol so we do
usually combined antibiotictherapy.
Depending if they havesomething a co-infection called
Babesia, you're going to use adifferent antiparasitic
medication as well.
But we really believe that thelong haul treatment system

(07:58):
incorporates botanicals.
So we're looking at liposomalcinnamon, oregano, those kinds
of things Working with theimmune system.
We utilize ozone therapy a lot.
Dr D brought in ozone therapywhat about four or five years
ago now to Wellness First and itworks really great with chronic
conditions like Lyme molds,multiple sclerosis, things like

(08:20):
that.
So we combine a lot ofdifferent therapies for it.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Gotcha Explain ozone therapy.
Ozone therapy is lot ofdifferent therapies.
For it, gotcha Explain ozonetherapy.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
Ozone therapy is using oxygen to heal the body,
and so we use a generator,because ozone is three oxygen
molecules and so it's a veryunstable molecule and so it
doesn't occur naturally.
You have to actually force thosethree molecules together.
But depending upon what you'redoing giving in the blood,

(08:47):
injecting it into a joint,inflating the bowel or
insufflating the bowel itdefinitely has multiple
different mechanisms of actionin the body and so if you're
trying to address something likechronic Lyme MS, it has a
really potent anti-inflammatoryactivation where you're actually

(09:10):
stimulating that NAD, nadh kindof redox reaction, where you're
supporting mitochondrial health, atp production.
And so we also see it reallyhelpful in like chronic fatigue
states, fibromyalgia, chronicpain states.
We're injecting it into jointswhere it forms something called

(09:31):
lipoperoxide, so stimulating thebody's own natural healing
response.
So working very similarly tohow, like stem cells or PRP kind
of triggers this likenon-traumatic injury to tell the
body hey, this, yeah, yeah,it's a regenerative kind of
treatment.
Yeah, um, it's also a sterilemolecule and so it does have
this kind of um anti orpathogenic kind of activity

(09:54):
where it's going to help cleanup if there's virus, parasite,
bacterial, uh invading agentlike lingering in the
bloodstream or just in a joint,even um, it's really, or in the
gut, like it's.
It's not a panacea, like youcan't just have ozone and not
eat well or not move your bodyor have other things that your

(10:15):
body's up against and think it'sgonna just cure all.
But it definitely has a really,really effective healing
response.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Interesting.
So I would imagine then, likehelping somebody with some kind
of chronic illness going on,you're going to ask is there a
way to figure out withenvironmental toxins too?

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
What we're going to say was like it's a there's a
multifaceted approach.
Let's give some ozone therapy,maybe some antibiotics, if it's
appropriate.
Diet and exercise is alwaysgoing to be super helpful, of
course.
Oh yeah, but yeah.
So environmental.
Is there a way to test forenvironmental toxicity?

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, we run the environmental it's called the
total toxic burden test all thetime.
I feel like everyone should dothat test as a marker and you
can choose how often after thatyou want to do it.
But that checks for heavymetals, molds and environmental
toxins and you can also do theadd-on of organic acids which
kind of tells us how thosetoxins are affecting our

(11:15):
methylation pathways.
But yeah, we check foreverything in that, so you can
check for parabens, plastics,pesticides, and I have yet to
have anybody come back with zeroLike clean slate, yeah, yeah.
But sometimes people aresurprised which ones are higher.
For them they're going inthinking it's mold and it's
actually environmental toxins,and it helps us figure out which

(11:36):
pathway we want to go towardswhen we are detoxing your system
.

Speaker 1 (11:40):
Environmental toxins would be like mercury.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
Those are heavy metals, yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Heavy metals.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Heavy metals, pesticides yes what would it
come up on?
Pesticides?
What do you mean?
Like what would it be like?
Like what would be showed to behigh?
Would it be like?

Speaker 2 (11:53):
oh, it breaks down every single different pesticide
and herbicides.
So, like all those chemicalsthat you're gonna see on the
back, like glyphosates, andevery herbicide and pesticide we
have here and this is a youknow, palm beach area is very
beautiful aesthetically and inthe past we've typically over,
we've overused pesticides andherbicides, and same with

(12:15):
farming, so we are catchingthose interesting, really high
levels in patients.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
what do you do with that?
Don't eat pesticides Cool.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Where do we go?
Well, it's obviously animportant piece is reducing your
exposure.
So a big thing would bechoosing organic produce when
possible, right, we understandthat you know a lot of times
that's limited or costprohibitive for patients.
A lot of times that's limitedor cost prohibitive for patients

(12:48):
, but really, if you can buylocal, there are some really
great farmers markets that Ithink the farming is a little
more mindful of those things.
So we also recommend washingproduce, especially with things
that don't have like a largepeeling.
Like we kind of follow, likethe clean 15, dirty dozen.
Like the clean 15 are thingsthat you don't totally need to

(13:10):
to purchase organic.
But the dirty dozen and thatlist kind of changes.
But there are some that, likeyou, should always be choosing
organic um, what would those?

Speaker 1 (13:18):
what would those be?

Speaker 3 (13:19):
the dirty dozen and the clean 15, okay, so, like
I've never heard that before,yeah, so like a dirty dozen like
spinach, blueberries,strawberries, tomatoes,
strawberries things that don'thave a tough peeling like
avocado, don't reallynecessarily need to be organic.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Watermelon may not be either.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, because you're not going to eat.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
You're not going to eat the rind right mind right
oranges, I would assume probablyis not going to be a dirty one.
I don't have them totallymemorized.
I always kind of reference thembut I the ones that I know, but
I'm always like that needs tobe organic.
It's the tomatoes, berries,spinach, do you remember any
other ones?

Speaker 2 (13:54):
I know corn would be potatoes, I would do organic
well, that's a whole corn andsoy.

Speaker 3 (14:01):
I would absolutely always need to be organic
because high pesticide load.

Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Really high Interesting.
The other thing is just helpingthe body naturally eliminate
toxins right, and so a majorthing that we always recommend
is sweating okay, so obviouslyexercise is the best way to
stimulate that.
But then we also are big fansof sauna therapy and
incorporating that Sure Infredsauna.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Infred sauna, for sure, yeah, and we utilize any
kind of sweating.
So luckily we're in Florida sopeople can sweat pretty easy,
just walk outside at nineo'clock in the morning.
Steam showers.
I don't care.
I don't care how you do it, Idon't care if it's one body,
part of it, it's just your facetoday.
Just open up those pores it.
It eliminates every toxin whenyou sweat yeah, that makes a lot

(14:47):
of sense.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
There's so many more benefits like exercise.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Exercise is great yeah, and it moves your lymph
lymph, lymph helps eliminate allof these um.
We also can see with that testif you have extremely high
levels.
We're not going to scare youand you have to live in this
bubble, but if we see reallyhigh levels that makes us think
are you having methylationissues in general?

(15:11):
So we support the liver as wellum to help and we use binders
to help kind of attach to thetoxins and help excrete them
even further are there anysupplements you guys recommend
as like an antidote to thesethings?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Like turmeric, black pepper, ginger, creatine.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Specifically for toxins.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, so I just mentioned the binder.
That's a big one that we usefor both molds and toxins.
It helps to attach to them andcarry them out.
We love to support withglutathione and other liver
supporters, so we work a lotwith the liver and we open up,
you know, kidney liver.
We have to make sure you'rehaving like I know it's not sexy
to talk about, but a bowelmovement every day, because if

(15:51):
you're not, then we'rereabsorbing all those.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, for sure, yeah, gotcha.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah, when in doubt, make sure you're moving your
bowels once or twice a day, liketruly.
I think even going once a dayis probably not enough for all
the things that we not onlyconsume in terms of our food,
but just the other things thatwe're exposed to.
That ultimately gets filtered,and the gut has to.
That's how you eliminate toxins.
Another major way.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah, I got you.
You were also mentioningtesting is important and, like
the full body CT scans andfunctional health, like
extensive blood testing canbring up a lot of things.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
Okay, yeah, there's multiple different ways of kind
of the things that are kind ofnow in vogue are the full body
CT or the full body MRI.
Yeah, and that's whether that'snecessary for you at this point
in time, I think is adiscussion that you should have
with the provider that you trust, because a lot of times we're
finding things that we callincidental incidentalomas,

(16:53):
meaning they're never going tobe clinic, clinically
significant, but it's like well,you have this information now
what do you do with it?

Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
And so you know, I think everything in medicine is
risk reward, and so you kind ofhave to know okay, if I find
something, if it's in its earlystages and you're seeing it,
that's actually amazing.
If you're seeing something,that's going to get you worked
up and anxious about it and thenpursue unnecessary testing
beyond that, you know that's thedownside to this.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, like the net cost of like the anxiety and
stress involved, involved othertests, other exposures to stuff.
Because you found a benignthing, yeah, that makes total
sense.
Um, and then with yeah, withextensive blood work, same thing
like full pan of blood.
Because we have I have a uh, apatient that she's a doc, um,
locally like full-on insurancehospital, you know what I mean.

(17:46):
So she's super overwhelmed but,she's a.
She's like I have a closed, avery small lane of like what I
do and this patient patientswill come in and be like I want
like a full blood panel, fullblood work.
She's like I don't know what Iwould do with that anyway,
because I can't.
I can't prescribe stuff and I'mand I'm so overwhelmed I can't
do anything with that, you know.
But anyway, I think it's superhelpful, right to get a wide

(18:09):
panel of stuff.
But is it similar, though?
If you get like all the timeand too much, it's like a lot of
neuroticism and anxiety overcertain levels not being perfect
, or the more information thebetter?

Speaker 2 (18:21):
So I would say there's a lot of markers that we
do really nerd out on and thinkare hugely beneficial, and
there's longevity ones now thatcan tell you your organ age and
it tells you am I taking theright supplements, am I doing
the right things, especiallythose of us that try to live a
healthier lifestyle, like, am Igoing down the right pathway or
do I need more of this?
But there is also oncologyscreening and I would say that's

(18:44):
along the same pathway as thefull body MRIs.
So those ones it's a do youwant to know, but they can
identify, based on your blood,cancers really early.
But there is a slight chance offalse negative on those.
So I would say those fall intothat same category.
But I really like thebiomarkers we use in blood work.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
Oh, I think blood work is a different story, I
think, where we just want tocaution people as if they are
pursuing like a function healthlike, have someone that is going
to sit down and know you andknow what that means
specifically for you.
So just having blood workwithout like a context of who
you're treating, I think thatcan get into.
I don't know that.

(19:27):
Can you kind of have to knowthe patient?
Yeah because you got to knowwhere you're going to start,
like if you see 12 things butyou have no context of the
patient or their habits or whatthey're ready for and it's
really hard to guide, like whereyou start or how you really
best help them.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
I feel like I would put that in the same category as
like imaging, for like spineimaging all the joints, sure,
sure.
Because there's plenty of peoplethat have a ton of
abnormalities found herniateddiscs and facet arthropathy,
degenerative changes, rototocuff, tears, bone spurs.
But you can't look at an imagewithout knowing somebody and
then, identically next tosomebody else who has a similar

(20:06):
image, like, okay, who's in pain?
Yeah, person a or person b.
It's like, well, I would thinkthey both would be well,
actually, person b has no painat all.
Yeah, right, like then it's the.
The imaging doesn't alwayscorrelate or isn't
diagnostically prognostic of,like what they're going to be
like.
You know, yeah, but whatmarkers would you nerd out on
that?
You love a lot.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
So I mean we like the obviously, the regular panels
and hormones.
I mean it can tell you so much.
So now you know we happen tohave a lot of people right now
in perimenopause and that's agreat instead of just kind of
being told these are thesymptoms you have to deal with,
we can look at those exacthormone levels and treat so
specifically towards that.

(20:47):
We do really like the true ageand true diagnostics where we
can look at your biological ageand some of your nutrient
markers and inflammatory markers.
Those are nice things to lookat to see if you have elevated
inflammatory markers.
That's something that we knowwe want to bring down.
We love looking at blood sugarinsulin.
We want that's something thatwe know we want to bring down.
We love looking at blood sugarinsulin.

(21:07):
We want to make sure that wefeel like that value should be a
lot lower than what most peopletargeted at.
So those are all ones that wefeel can really impact longevity
and overall health andprevention.

Speaker 1 (21:20):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
One of my favorite tests that Joey recently
introduced me to is somethingcalled the Hormone Zoomer.
We use a lot of the vibranttests and I was working with.
We were working with a younggirl who is still menstruating
and really was cool to see howher hormones she's not only
producing them, but how they'rebeing broken down in the body
and then we get to see also arethere certain chemicals,

(21:44):
environmental toxins that arethen affecting how her hormone
synthesis and how her hormonesare being metabolized?
And so it was like reallyeye-opening for her to be like
oh so, I'm not crazy.
This is this is why I don't feelgood, this is why I'm irritable
, this is why my periods arekind of all over the place and
so, um, that was reallysatisfying to kind of find I
mean, that's that's, that's like, that's like the perfect test,

(22:05):
right, that like reallycorroborates your patient's
symptoms and their story.
I find it really frustratingwhen you know a patient comes
and they're like well, all mylab tests have been normal and
my endocrinologist has said well, you know, your labs are great
and so, sorry, you don't feelgood.
It must be in your head or itmust just be an age thing and

(22:27):
it's like can't do anything foryou, right, or just keep taking
your Synthroid and you know.
Sorry I really and that is Idon't mean to be um, sorry I
don't mean to be, uh, critical,because sometimes they are just
up against a time restriction,and that is why we just said
we're going to do it differently, we're going to spend the time
that is needed not only when thepatient's in front of us.

(22:48):
But, joey and I, there's a fewpatients that we're talking
almost daily about because theyjust they need that kind of
attention, they need that kindof brain power, and so that's
One thing that I mean like, onething I like about you guys,
because we refer a lot of peopleto you and then something that
we try to always emulate as well.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
A core value, I feel like by practice, is just trying
hard.
Let's dive into the matterwhere this young girl, it's like
this, feels weird, though I'mhaving these interesting
symptoms, I can't really put myfinger on it.
All the tests are negative.
All right, take Synthroid forthe rest of your life.
You're good, can't do anythingfor you.

(23:29):
But but why, though?
Right, like, let's dive in andjust like, try hard.
Yeah, if you just like happento get like, if you're a guy
calling it your insurance orgetting like trying to get a
refund from, like your airlineor something like that, right,
like, like an airport, and youjust happen to get the one
person that just like like, letme just look into it real quick.
Yeah, let me just try and theyfigure it out.
You know, I'm like that's ahuge pet peeve of mine yeah or,
like the other person, be likeno, can't help you.
Sorry.
Seen it a million times, don'tknow what to tell you.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
It's like you're just not trying no, we love the
challenge like if you're.
If you're like no one hasfigured this out.
We're like okay here we gochallenge accepted yeah, let's

Speaker 1 (23:59):
roll our sleeves up.
Yeah, so all right.
So that young patient thatyou're describing, what do you
like?
What do you do for that?
Oh, we did, I mean, I wouldimagine, like synthroid for
thyroid issues.
Right, is there a pathway offof that?

Speaker 3 (24:14):
sure you heal.
You heal the gut, you fixmicronutrients.
You, uh, correct hormonalimbalances.
You get them moving.
You, you correct their gut.
I mean, oh, yeah, sure, I amnever of the mind that if you're
on a medication today then youcan't get off of it, you know,
in the future.
I mean, I think that's alwaysour goal, right is to get them

(24:35):
all pharmaceuticals.
We actually believe the bodyhas an ability to heal itself.
But you got to have the righttools.
You got to be consistent withthose things that aren't sexy,
you know.
Going to bed at a decent hour,like moving your body every day,
limiting your screen time, likechoosing a chicken breast over

(24:57):
the chicken nugget, like it'sjust, it's things that you know,
it's just the daily littlething.
Yes, yes, it really is that makea huge difference.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
And you commented earlier about, you know, diet
and nutrition, what kind of rolethey're playing, and especially
when we're looking at thehormones, with a lot of these
females too and I had mentionedperimenopause cortisol in
today's day and age, for femaleand males, they're just wreaking
havoc on our systems andthey're such a big part of, you

(25:26):
know, weight gain andsluggishness, and it can be part
of thyroid and all these otherdysregulations in the body, and
we're finding that on this testas well, and so that's something
that I can give you a bunch ofthings that are going to reduce
your cortisol.
But it'd be even better if youwent to bed at 10 every night,
or you didn't.
You didn't fall asleep withyour phone in your hand or these

(25:47):
little things make the biggestdifference.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, I, um, it's something I totally agree we,
something I try to communicateto patients with like fixing
their shoulder pain or the backpain or whatever.
It's like there's no magicallike exercise.
It's like a hundred golden BBsthat all add up and end up
tipping the scale over a coupleof weeks to where it's like hey,
that's weird, I've spent allday today and like I haven't
felt my back.
You know, weird, like that'show it happens.

(26:10):
It's not like a magical moment,you know, or like this one
stretch, this one mobility thing, like fixed it.
Um, so you said micronutrients.
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (26:26):
So when we look at thyroid in particular, we want
to know are you?
There's certain nutrients thathelp it, like selenium and
iodine, and so you can.
You can start to just replacethose and make sure that they're
making their levels um, or youcan test for them, and we have
testing for that as well, so youcan test for micronutrients.
Some people really want to seeexactly are my B vitamins off?
I've been supplementing on thisprotocol for five years.

(26:47):
Am I at those levels?
So we can test for that.
But typically with thyroidwe'll make sure that they're.
On certain nutrients likeselenium, iodine, potentially B
vitamins always.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
So have you guys had patients with hyperthyroidism or
hypothyroidism?
Hypothyroidism is you.
You take Synthroid, is thatcorrect?

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Where they have been able to wean off of Synthroid
and they're like steady.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah hyper is a littledefinitely different story.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Hyper is a different story, but I have had success
with significantly reducing themedication and then using other
therapies like peptide therapyand really something called
low-dose naltrexone, differentimmune regulators to really I
mean so much of what I thinkwe're up against in chronic

(27:38):
illness is a dysregulated immunesystem.
And so sure you want to addressthe Lyme, the mold, the
environmental toxin, but youreally want to support the
immune system to then address itfor you, because that's what it
is designed to do.
And so whenever we're talkingabout a complex patient and like
where do you start, supportingthe immune system's own natural

(28:02):
ability to fight that thing orto address that thing is always
in the conversation.
So I don't know if that answersyour question.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
That makes total sense Supporting the immune
system with the stuff you justmentioned, like supplements for
B12, supplements for the otherstuff you're mentioning.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Well, that's part of it, sure, but it's really.
I mean, fixing the gut, I meanthat that's going to be a big,
big thing.
Um, can't underestimate thepower of your food and what you
like forked a mouth.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah Like, constantly , consuming, yes Like you.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
I tell a lot of my patients like you cannot outwork
your fork, like people justwant to kind of overexercise to
death, orsupplement to death, oryou know over-peptide or
hormone to death, and it's likelike the food is really.
I think sleep and food are kingand queen in my mind.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah, and I throw stress in there too.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Sure, but but that I think sleep is a major way that
we help that.
Yeah, reduce our stress andhelp the body heal from stress.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
I was talking to a patient this morning.
They were.
They were just like telling methat they recently had been
waking up at like three o'clock,can't go back to sleep.
And they're like what, when doyou sleep?
And I'm like I usually get tobed, like I've been at like
averaging seven, seven and ahalf hours, which is not enough,
and like how do you do thatwith three kids?
And it's like, well, I wake uplike every three hours.
You know, like it's superbroken.
They're like how do you do thatwith three kids?
And I was like, well, I wake uplike every three hours.
You know, like it's superbroken.

(29:29):
They're like, oh, so you're notgetting seven and a half hours?
And I'm like, no, I'm not, butI would go to bed.
The time length is seven and ahalf.
I was like I don't want to getone I don't want to get one of
those Not on the right parts.
Yeah, oura ring my bad, we canedit that out.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
You should, that's great.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, no games, An Oura ring, oh God, because I'm going
to be depressed, I'm going tobe like I'm getting terrible
sleep, you know, and I even yeah, I actually just recently got
my blood work done.
I'll have to give it to youguys.
I haven't got the results backyet, but see what y'all think,
but um had another patient thatum, they're young and healthy

(30:13):
female battling chronic shinpain.
That's been going on for a longtime.
X-rays are negative, mri isnegative, like of like, maybe
like, are you overtraining?
Like she's thin, I'm like, okay, you'd running a lot stress,
fractures, osteopenia,nutritional support, right, I
was like the female athletetriad.
You know what I mean?
Great recipe for that.

(30:34):
She's like no, no, no, no, no,all that's good.
She's not really evenexercising that much, but anyway
, the only thing and she gotblood work done and when they
really came back was like reallyhigh cortisol levels, but
anyway.
So since then, um, she's stillseeking treatment.
You know, I was like man, I'mdoing it from a musculoskeletal
standpoint.
I'm doing everything I can.

(30:54):
Um, that's why I referred out.
I was like let's get some bloodwork.
You know, um, I sent her to youguys, but she's too far for you
there, she's down south alittle bit, but anyway, um other
than that, like that's the onlything that really came back
yeah everything else was kind ofwithin the normal ranges, so
it's been super interesting.
Yeah, but you mentioned cortisol.
I'm like I've that has to playa role.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Something is dysregulated, oh sure, that's
cool that you're considering allthat with your patients, though
, too, and you're referring outfor further testing, and that's
a piece of, you know, yourtreatment plan.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
That's really progressive yeah, well, I
appreciate that.
No, but I was like I want to doeverything.
My lane is musculoskeletal,neuromusculoskeletal pain,
biomechanics, joint mobility,activation like muscle strength,
and then like mechanics withlike running and squats and how
this plan to roll chronically,irritating something underneath,
like the posterior tibialis orlike tibial, like the ankle

(31:44):
joint, whatever, um, but butyeah, like I wasn't working.
You know, she's like it's alittle bit better, but it's not,
and I'm like this should beclearing up.
You know we're doing everything, you know.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
Well, what I will say just to the point about
distance Joey is doing a lot ofour functional testing for our
non-members, so you don't haveto be a member of our practice
to see one of us.
Joey is really targeted to ourintegrative side, our
integrative plus side, where wehave integrative therapies like

(32:17):
IV, nutrient therapy, chelation,ozone.
But she's also doing themajority of our functional
testing for people that justwant to know about their hormone
zoomer or their cortisol levelsor their toxic burden or their
gut health, and she spends somuch time with them.
She does a beautiful job and, Ireally think, worthwhile
investment.

(32:38):
We're also off getting thosetests on our website and so you
can just go on the website kindof get a quick rundown of the
different tests that are offeredand why someone might be
interested in that testing.
You can pay for that tester onthe website, schedule a
follow-up with joey reallystreamline, and so that
shouldn't keep people fromseeking this kind of not just
from us, but you know anyone butbut the testing is available

(33:01):
that's good to know because,like the barrier to entry of
like well, I'm not a member,like, how do I come in?

Speaker 1 (33:06):
oh well, you have to be a member in order to get
services, and that's great, yeah, cause y'all can get testing
and stuff.
And then like, at least meety'all and then get you on a path
of like.
If it's not with us like,here's what we think you should
do.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
That's good, that's good to know.
Tell us about.
So what are the when peoplecome to see you?
Well, before this, actually, Iwanted to ask you so high
cortisol levels, what do you do?
Where do we go from there?

Speaker 2 (33:31):
So everything we talked about with regular sleep
times, going to bed, reducingstress obviously little things
like deep breathing cold therapycan really help with that Vagal
exercise.
So like humming, shock therapy,all that and shock I mean cold
like hot, and cold, electricalshock therapy, all that.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
And shock I mean cold like hot, cold Electrical shock
therapy.
Yeah, you know those wires.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
We're super gentle, no harm.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Just grab those wires for like five seconds.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Just jump in a pool and then there's, and then we do
supplement too.
So we support the adrenals forcortisol big time.
So a lot of people, especiallyyou've just come out of school,
you have kids, you work likecrazy, you travel a lot,
whatever it might be, you'vejust finished an Ironman your
adrenals are shot.
So even though you're doingthis awesome thing for you, your

(34:20):
adrenals are shot.
You've just had a baby, forexample.
A lot of women postnatal arelike that.
So we supplement their adrenalsin summer in the morning,
summer at night, and usually wedo a combo of both and it's
usually a blend of botanicals,possibly like neurotransmitter
support, and so we aid you intogetting better sleep.

(34:41):
We're not just like.
I think the worst thing you cansay to someone is like work out
more and go to sleep.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, like that's it Just sleep better, problem
solved.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, we want you to get on a bit of a cycle so that
your body knows what to do.
But we get you there with thesupplements and the botanicals
so that your body's in a betterstate to accept that.
Magnesium's probably huge foryou and really big for us in
calming the nervous systembecause we can say what we want.
But you need help in shuttingyour mind off before you go to
sleep.
That's often what causes like a3 am wake up.
It's not always that you can'tfall asleep, it's your mind was

(35:18):
racing and it wakes you up at 3o'clock.
Regulating blood sugar is alsohuge for controlling cortisol.
So making sure you're havinglike protein and fat and fiber
in your last meal and it's notlike an empty pasta dish can
really help your sleep as well.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Gotcha.
Yeah, I would imagine alcoholplays a role with that too.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Absolutely Alcohol, and that's what.
When the aura ring is reallycool, some people notice or
there's other marker.
There's other ways that you cantrack your sleep as well, but
some people notice alcohol hasthe biggest impact on their
sleep, and especially that 3 am,because alcohol does cause that
blood sugar dip as well.
Yeah, yeah it causes you towake up.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Interesting.
Yeah, you're going to saysomething.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
Well, magnesium is one of, I think, the most
important nutrients that we cantake.
But different magnesiums hitdifferent systems, and so I
would say, if you're looking toaddress the gut, it's magnesium
citrate.
If you're looking to addressmuscular tension, it's more
magglycinate.
If you're looking to hit thenervous system, it's going to be
mag L3 and 8.

(36:22):
And so it really.
You know, the type of magnesiumyou take really does matter.
My current favorite sleep aidsupport is ashwagandha.
I was having that 3 am wake up.
Like every night.
I have a lot of my mind rightPatience to think about a
business to run, and so it wassuggested to do ashwagandha.

(36:43):
And man, I take that thing at 8o'clock and I am out and it's
beautiful, and so you know,maybe tracking your sleep, like
quality and stuff I was with theaura ring.
I've kind of since given up onthat.
Just there's so many things I'mtracking right now, so it's
just one less thing, but I like.
But yeah, I should have gone ateight in bed by 10 and I'm

(37:06):
sleeping through the night andsometimes I'll add a little
magnesium but you should becareful, because magnesium can
cause loose bowels, so too muchcan do that.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
So anyways, don't mean to be PMI, but you know,
I've heard a good combination ofmagnesium, vitamin C, ascorbic
acid like supplement andpotassium all together.
This could be helpful.
Have y'all heard that beforetoo?
Like does magnesium pair wellwith other supplements.
To like activate it better.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Oh, absolutely, I haven't heard of that trio
specifically for like,specifically for sleep, or just
activating magnesium.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
I think both Sleep, stress, I guess, and then body
recovery.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, like imagine some like training, you know,
yeah, like work at intenseworkouts and training and
running and doing all this stuffto be the supportive, a
supportive supplement stack tohelp with all that stuff
together nice.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Oh yeah, it's very cool but anyway.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
But um, I'm not taking that.
I was for a little bit, but um.

Speaker 3 (38:04):
Do you take kyle?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
yeah, good question.
So I find myself I think Irespond pretty well to creatine
monohydrate.
I'm talking about like for likeworking out.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
I would only take something if that's what I'm
taking for that, for like, forexercise and supporting as much
as I can, right, but creatineand then whey protein that has a
branched chain of amino acidsin that with leucine, isoleucine
and valine.
Those are the main supportiveones for muscle growth.
And then I was taking magnesium, potassium and ascorbic acid

(38:35):
for a little bit, but I ended upstopping that.
I don't think I really saw toohuge of it, but maybe I didn't
take it long enough.
I don't know, but I didn't seeanything crazy.
And then there was a time I'vegotten off a little bit more and
I'll tell you why, but withturmeric extract powder with
black pepper and then ginger.
Okay so, but turmeric man, Like, have you ever seen the extract

(39:01):
powder?
Yeah, oh my gosh, it stainseverything.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
And it doesn't get absorbed by like liquid, so you
can't put it in your water andstir it up, it just still floats
to the top.
Yeah, it's so annoying.
Yeah, so what I do is I justscoop it in dry over my sink to
make sure I don't spill.
Yeah, um.
You take curcumin dry, yeah,yeah whoa, it's like a little
bit oh yeah and then I'll, yeah,and then a little bit of black
pepper extract as well, throwthat in dry, put some water in,

(39:29):
switch around, swallow it, doneand done.
By the way, there was onemorning it was like 5 am right,
I'm like kind of groggy andwaking up I'm getting everything
ready, um, and I didn't know it, but like I guess when I was
trying to put it in through aspoon right in my mouth, it's a
little bit just drip, justtrickled off and fell on the
floor forever.
I stepped on it and I waswalking all over the kitchen,

(39:50):
went to the bathroom, came backand I like saw these orange
stains on the floor.
I'm like Holy crap, like shoot,like your wife's going to kill
you, yeah.
And then my kids were waking upand it's like it's like a lot
earlier than it's supposed to be, like five, 45.
And I'm like shoot man, like alot earlier than it's supposed

(40:11):
to be, like 5, 45.
And I'm like shoot man, likebecause it's the worst, like you
can't wipe it up.
You know like creatine's supereasy to clean up.
You know, yeah, like it justwipes up.
You know, yeah, oh my gosh.
So I like she was up with thebaby or my ass was like I have
to leave for work.
I got a patient, I gotta leave.
I'm so sorry I'm leaving thiswith you I spilled turmeric and
it's all over the freakingkitchen and it's into the
bathroom and back up, I thinkyou guys have a meeting about

(40:33):
this.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I'm going to do it right before I leave and then
I'm going to have a meeting or apatient or something, so you
have to clean it up.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, exactly, it's like you did that you timed that
, yeah, exactly.
I swear out of myself.
I was like I can't believe.
I I'm just super.
I'm like a neat freak.
You know, like I'm kind of ocd,I'm organized like things have
to be.
They just I feel like the lessclutter, you know, I think more
clearly.
You know, yeah, I'm like a listguy.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
I'm like lists and like super organized yeah, okay,
good, I'm not the weird one.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
No, you're not but um , but yeah.
So, like you know, messes andstuff like that, I'm like it
just adds things to the platethat I don't want to have to do,
you know, because other thingsare more important.
But anyway, I felt really badso I put a pause on the turmeric
and black pepper for now.
I'm trying to figure out when Ihave to.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
You could do a capsule of it, and they have
black pepper in them.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yes, I get the Costco ones, you know, or the qnol,
you know.
It's like turmeric, blackpepper and ginger, but I'm like.
But there's like, the capsulesare like plastic.
I don't want to eat those.
What are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts on those?
That's one of my rationale.
My rationale for getting thepure extract, eating it dry, is
because I don't want to havemore capsule, the actual capsule
yeah, I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Most of the capsules are um are know, they're
obviously not plastic.
They're made out of.
Some of them are pork, some ofthem are vegetable.
Yeah, so they degrade prettyeasily.
I do think about that, though,when we do protocols like how
many, and that's why I enjoymixing in powders, like I take

(42:04):
my magnesium powder.
Most people take the capsule toget a higher dose.
I would rather take threespoonfuls than nine capsules for
sure.
So I do think about that,especially if there's gut issues
, but most of them in ourstomach acid are pretty easy to
break down.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
Okay, all right, good to know.
So if you're like, all right,let's say, somebody, a provider
was like, we're going to get youon 15 different supplements.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
That's a lot.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
And there's a lot of capsules.
You know what I mean.
So you're pretty confident thatthat wouldn't just with the
processing involved, the processto develop the capsule.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Not all capsules are of the same nutraceutical grade
and third-party tested productsthat you would at a company like
Zymogen or Thorne, so I can'tspeak across the board for most
of them, but most of thesupplements that we use and give
are easy on the digestivesystem.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I'll have to investigate QAnon, then, because
that's the one that seems to bethe best.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Bang for your buck at Costco, you know, or the
kirkland brand, I don't knowkirkland's man.
They're crushing it like costcois like yeah they're super
smart um thorn was the magnesiumum blend.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
I was the stack I was taking oh nice, yeah they're,
they're a good product, they'regood, yeah, yeah, and recently
I've been.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
so the new creatine that I'm trying to get on is the
German Korea Pure.
If you all heard of that, it'ssupposed to be the purest type.
I haven't really had an issue,I don't think, but a patient
recommended it.
I was like all right, see ifit's different.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
But anyway, to answer your question, those are the
supplements that I've beentaking.
I feel I usually creatine.
I usually pretty react.
I think I react pretty well tothat, like I feel good you know.
Yeah, what do y'all?
Do y'all take anything specificfor yourselves?
Because you were trainingpretty hard for that paddle last
year.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
Don't crush my heart, Kyle.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
No, that was a hard.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yeah, hard subject.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
That was tough.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
That's the source of.
No, I'm just kidding, but let'sokay, that was tough.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
That's the source of Okay.
An individual will takeyourself training very hard.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Were you taking anything?

Speaker 3 (44:13):
That was not that long ago.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
A year ago.
A year ago.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
I still train hard.
It's just a different kind oftraining I do like.
I like transparent.
So if we're talking recoveryactivity, I have a pre-workout
that I take from TransparentLabs.
Talking recovery activity, Ihave a pre-workout that I take
from transparent labs, um, andthen I take their same creatine
uh supplement after afterworking out.
I also like the perfect aminos,um.

(44:38):
It just helps get a little moreprotein in me.
It's really hard for me to get120 grams.
It's kind of where I try to tryto live it is.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
It is hard.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yeah, getting up protein is hard most people
think, oh yeah, I get enough andthey're getting, you know, 60
grams and you know that might beokay for some people, but if
you're really like hitting thepavement hard with lifting hit I
mean.
Most of the time people areover exercising and I don't
think their caloric intake, froma protein standpoint, is really

(45:09):
.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
Supporting enough.
Yeah, totally, I got you.
Let's talk about peptides.
Okay, so I recently found heardthat the BPC-157 is illegal now
in the FDA.
Did you ever hear that?

Speaker 3 (45:23):
Doesn't surprise me.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
But just with like, and that's where that's where
the skepticism and cynicismcomes in on my end of like why?
If it's, it's, who knows.
But I'm like I wonder if the,if it's really effective and
helping people recover and doreally well.
If, like other large businessentities that are like no, no,

(45:45):
no, no, like people are gettingtoo healthy, we, we need to like
stop this so they're more onour drugs consistently.
Anyway, that's just myconspiracy on that.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
I mean, they've done this a bunch with the GLP ones
too, that we know are effective.
There's a whole conversation asto whether you know you
recommend them or not, but weknow that they're effective at
reducing weight and, um, youknow, helping with some other
biomarkers like blood sugar andstuff.
But they keep taking it back onand off and we know it's

(46:13):
effective, we know there's veryfew side effects and it still
keeps happening.
So I haven't heard that withthe BPC-157.
I've seen a ton of benefit inpatients that take it and it
would be a great combo with whatyou do as well, both for gut
and recovery.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Post-surgery we use it.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
So you all incorporate that a lot to
practice.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
We do, and BPC is one of the peptides that is
available through the gut.
So not all peptides can youingest orally.
A lot of them have to besubcutaneous.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
BPC is one that is highly bioavailable through the
gut.
Incredible for the gut.
I actually have found thatpeople that are taking it.
It helps regulate that appetitecontrol because it's actually
healing the gut.
A lot of times those cravingsis because you have an
overabundance of yeast orparasites.

(47:08):
Not that BPC is addressingparasites to my knowledge, but I
do know that a lot of gutdysbiosis is what drives
overeating.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Yeah, the cravings.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
So parasites play a role.
Yeast dysregulation plays arole.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
Dysbiosis in general, so not just yeast overgrowth of
any bacteria, correct?

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Interesting.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Correct, all right.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
So BPC is a great peptide, so you recommend that
orally, not injected.

Speaker 3 (47:36):
I take it every day orally.
Oh, okay, inject.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Okay, it's not illegal orally.
Subcutaneous, I think, is wherethe FDA hasn't approved it or
has disrobed.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Well, not approving and illegal.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
They made it.
The FDA cleared it to be notapproved.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Oh for subcutaneous use my understanding.
Yeah, but orally it's stillokay it is showing incredible
promise subcutaneously around ajoint.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
That's what I've been hearing Knee pain, hip pain,
back pain injected at the site.
That's what's been, from myunderstanding, not clear, but
disproved by the FDA Like no, no, no, Y'all can't do this
anymore.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
That's a shame.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
That's a bummer.
Anyway, I'm like why?

Speaker 3 (48:18):
It is something that you could learn because you do
the dry needling right, and so Ithink what dry needling is
doing is something verysimilarly to what like prolazone
or BPC is actually trying to do.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
I think it would be a great adjunct.
We need a lot.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, so yeah, what other peptides do you all find
yourselves prescribing?

Speaker 3 (48:41):
So another one that I really like that's viable
orally is TB4.
Frag really great regulator ofour TH1 immune system, and so a
lot of times you needupregulation of that TH1 and a
downregulation, something calledth2 that's.

(49:01):
That's a very rudimentary wayof understanding the immune
system.
Um th1 and th2.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
What's educate people , what that is you want to take
that on?

Speaker 3 (49:09):
no, you go ahead well no, I don't okay so my very
limited understanding becausethe immune system is a complex
thing is that a lot of timeswhen we see a dysregulated
immune system is we have a verydominant th1 th2 presence, okay,
in a very helper cells, right?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
is that what you're saying?

Speaker 3 (49:28):
sure, yes, yes part of that th1, th2, uh, th17
regulator cells.
So you want to support th1 andyou want to downregulate Th2.
Okay, and TB4 frag can helpupregulate Th1.
Okay, it's one agent that canbe done, and so I've seen it

(49:48):
really helpful in patients whohave autoimmunity issues,
especially autoimmunethyroiditis, hashimoto's, and so
that's one that I've utilizedas well orally.
There are new peptides comingout all the time, a couple that
we're really liking for.

(50:09):
Other immune support issomething called KPV, what's?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
time is an alpha is another one for immunity.
Kpv is a little more to likethat mass cell activation which
when we talk about chronicdisease, that can happen in any
kind of chronic disease wherethey just are very inflamed,
everything they have is veryinflamed, whereas thymosin alpha
is a little more general.
Immunity works with EBV kind ofthose chronic conditions.

(50:36):
The one I think is Dee and Iwere talking the other day about
a couple.
Motc isn't utilized a lot butit's one that we're both like.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
I'll try that when it comes out, they call it workout
in a bottle.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
What's that one?
So it's like workout in abottle.
It's called MOTC and it'ssupposed to help maintain muscle
function and metabolism.
So totally different route thanthe GLP-1s.
Like, I just think that there'sgoing to be so much more coming
out that the GLP-1s are goingto be old news, and especially
for people that do work out andeat.
Well, it's the big thingthey're seeing with GLP-1s is

(51:12):
there's just a massive muscleloss with them too.
And I don't know if you'venoticed that with your patients,
but we see a decrease in musclemass before we see it in fat
mass, Um, and then they getcomfortable with that.
So they kind of just keep goingdown that I'm eating the same
things, just less of it, WhereasMOTC is thought to just enhance
your workout.
So they call it workout in abottle, and it does help with

(51:33):
insulin regulation as well,which I like again in these
hormonal and perimenopausestages.
Or you work a lot withipsomoralin or growth hormone
saccharoges.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Tessamoralin, samoralin, Ipamoralin is not
readily available.
I don't think anymore.
But yeah, if you're reallylooking to help aid recovery.
It's acting on the pituitarygland to release growth hormone,
so it's not actually givinggrowth hormone, it's stimulating
the pituitary to really do itnaturally.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you because I know people
have like their questions andconcerns.
There's like what am I going tobe in this forever?
Then I'm going to dysregulatemy hormones hormonal system to
then like have to be, you know,dependent on this stuff.
But what you were saying, myunderstanding is that peptides
it stimulates the endogenousorgans to do it themselves.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Correct.
And we do cycle them.
Like I don't ever say stay onthis indefinitely.
Like you either cycle it a fewdays a week and then you take a
few weeks off, or if you'redoing them like six days a week,
then if you're doing it acouple months, you take a month
off.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah.
So yeah, yeah, you do you docycle them, they're gonna work
better that way, yeah, yeah,yeah, I got you.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
There's a copper peptide that's supposed to um
reduce wrinkles, and I don'tknow about this yeah, skin
health and hair growth, that's abig one.
Well, not on me on that one.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Oh, that's, what's that one called?

Speaker 2 (52:53):
it's just, it's G-H-K-U, it's copper peptide.
Okay, always writing that onedown, you don't have Wrangles,
do you yeah?

Speaker 1 (53:04):
No, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
It's for a friend.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, that's cool.
Well, that's interesting.
What are your thoughts onsemaglutide and terzipatide?

Speaker 2 (53:18):
Yeah, those are the GLP ones.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
I personally think that there's a space for them.
I think that it's helped a lotof people get the motivation to
improve their life, so they seethe benefits and then they buy
into it.
And the momentum rules and themomentum rules and they, in the
meantime, are realizing oh, I'vehad, I have less knee pain, or

(53:42):
my back is hurting a little bitless, or I can, I can now
exercise more.
At the beginning, I felt likeit was just used as a crutch a
lot.
So it it again what Dr D wassaying earlier about who are you
working with it.
Are they focusing on the factthat it slows your motility?
So is someone working on youabout making sure that you're

(54:03):
still having bowel movements?
Because think about thelong-term repercussions if we're
slowing our gut motility, ifthey're not telling you to do
resistance exercise at the sametime.
And you're losing weight, butlike 80% of it I think they
found that 80% was muscle massif you weren't doing enough
resistance exercise with it orconsuming enough protein, which
would then make it so maybe allyou're eating is almost protein,

(54:25):
right, because how are yougoing to get enough if your
appetite's way down?
So I see a ton of negativeeffects from it and things that
you need to work on.
So trust who you're workingwith it, because there are a lot
of things that you can justorder it online now and be sent
on your own and you don't knowabout any of these things and
the metabolic effects long terminteresting.

(54:47):
If you want to go off of it,your metabolism is just shot
because now you have way lessmuscle and you're primed and
ready to store all that, whatthat you just lost.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
Yeah, I mean the body doesn't like to be in a state
of caloric restriction, and soit's constantly.
I mean you take away that, thatGLP, and then those signals are
just going to come right back.
So you're going to.
It's just kind of like crashdieting, right, Like you can
only calorically restrict for solong and then your hormones are
going to start saying like feedme me feed, me feed me right,

(55:19):
and so as soon as you take thataway and you start eating
normally again, you're going tostore all that, and so it really
does wreak havoc on themetabolism.
I I'm I'm with joey.
I think it has a space, I thinkit needs to.
I think like least effectivedose, like lowest effective dose

(55:39):
, um, and and really beingmindful of the other habits
while you're doing it.
I think it's the most, the mostimportant Um it it also it has,
like I'm seeing it really helpwith other things, like alcohol
dependency, um, so it's helpedpeople who were like constantly

(56:01):
like thinking about alcohol orusing that as another crutch,
like they've been able to getoff, like stop drinking,
essentially, which.
I think is wild right they justlike that, just so.
There are some really othergreat benefits, if you're not
talking about muscle loss andthings like that.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
And you and you know part of the best thing and the
hardest thing about functionalmedicine is we rely so much on
you as a patient.
You have to meet us somewhereor we can only get so far, but
there are patients that willonly go so far.
And so if you know that and youknow weight, weight reduction,
no matter what is going to helpall of their blood pressure, and

(56:41):
you know their inflammation andtheir blood, then you know it
is a tool that can be used forthat purpose as well.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yeah, interesting Last thing to bring up.
You talk about stress andanxiety, right, and like the
psychology component of the mindbody connection.
Do y'all, what route do youguys go with educating patients
on that?
Like, how do you dance aroundthat component?

Speaker 2 (57:07):
so I think we we use a combination, so we we do have
the opportunity to spend a lotmore time with our patients so
we do have the conversations andbecause we spend so much time
with them, a lot comes out inour visits.
So we're a lot more than ifyou're in a five to 10 minute
session, right.
So we, it comes out, peoplewant to talk, they want to share

(57:29):
and and you know that's part ofour process.
So getting them to talk, um,and meeting them and figuring
out where their sources ofstress might be and we do
utilize tests too to to verifyit as well.
Right, so we will check their,their cortisol to make sure,
because some people think thatthey're so used to a high

(57:50):
baseline level of stress.
They're like my stress ispretty good right now, but like
just being around them you canfeel the tension and the stress.
So it's kind of peeling backthe layers and and and you know,
saying like you know how muchdowntime do you have a day?
What is your sleep Like?
Are you waking up?
So a lot of it is our interviewprocess.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, cause I very similar, youknow, um, cause I'm not a
psychologist by any means.
Right, it's a hot.
I think it's just interestingstuff.
You know what I mean About liketo not leave any stones
unturned and like all the goldenBBs that add to the scale, Like
when we can't neglect thatstress and anxiety, like the
psychological component of painis a huge contributing factor.

(58:30):
Right, that's what he's reallysuggest.
Like the psychologicalcomponent can't be not addressed
, like we had to consider thatand we can't separate the mind
from the body, no matter what wedo.
But it's interesting likethere's a lot more studies that
are being exposed.
I think that aren't new.
I feel like like the immune um,I forget who the guy, I just I
just looked up a bunch of this,this guy's studies but, um, the

(58:50):
connection with immunedysregulation, dysfunction and
then the psychological stress,anxiety component yeah and how
people are a lot more prone togetting sick if they have higher
stress levels yeahand then cortisol would be like
one of the main things toidentify that in a blood test.
Yeah, um, if y'all are familiarwith, uh, dr lisa feldman I
think her name fieldman um,she's like a world-renowned

(59:11):
neuroscientist, psychologistreally interesting.
I was listening to a podcast ofher and she just dropped like a
two-minute segment on painscience and I was like whoa, I
had to rewind it and I wrote itdown anyway.
She was just describing how,like, um, the everything is is
interpreted from the brain,right, and it's like in a black

(59:31):
box that only just receivessignals, it just that's it.
It has no other understandingother than what it's learned
previously.
So it attaches currentsignaling to previously
understood experiences and itassociates that together, right.
So I was like, oh, that makestotal sense.
So, anyway, she was droppingbombs as in like, really, trauma

(59:53):
and pain right now is sensorypresent with learned past.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
So like a learned past with sensory present.
Interesting so, yeah, right.
So like it triggers certainreactions based on our previous
experiences when, even thoughand from a pain science
standpoint, even if there's notactual tissue damage happening,
there can still be a pain cyclethat's being experienced, right
oh, yeah.
Right, I'm like so anyway, howdo you teach somebody?

(01:00:19):
Educate?
We just, we try to be superdelicate and like, depending on
their micro expressions in theirface and like what they're
reacting, right then in theconversation I'll like change
directions.
You know what I mean yeah butI'm sure you guys have.
You have a conversation likethat too, I'd assume, with y'all
patients, right, right.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Well, to Joey's point , that is a delicate area and it
really does require having arapport with the patient and
establishing trust, Because whenyou really start to get into
some of the things that havecaused them deep pain in their
past, I mean it needs to betended to lightly and with care

(01:01:01):
and love and and we really can'tjust look at the our patients
as a physical entity you knowtesting and blood tests and
things of that nature it's, it'sall very telling.
But the patient's story wecannot forget that and the
experience that they've had tolead them to why they're sitting
in front of us at any given day.
And I've had multipleencounters with patients where

(01:01:27):
they came with a physicalcomplaint and you give them
enough time and you give themenough space to talk and you
listen, you be quiet, dr D, youdon't say anything, you really
do.
Then get you're like Dr D, youdon't say anything, you really
do.
Then get you're like oh, thisis a matter of the heart, this
is an old wound or this is areally deep wound, and so

(01:01:50):
actually you are having aphysical manifestation of that
pain.
But this is reallypsychological pain, this is a
heart pain, and so we're nottherapists.

(01:02:14):
But I do think a lot of what wedo is t then we have a network
of providers that we trust.
Who then?
That is really where they'rekind.
I have multiple licensedtherapists that I lean on,
depending upon kind of who Ithink would be a good fit for
that patient.
There's also a brilliant guy,mike Cohen, who that's all he

(01:02:37):
does is brain work and he reallytakes complex issues like PTSD
and chronic depression andchronic pain and he has his own
way of doing brain mapping andthen helping support that.
And so you know we're never ofthe mind that we have all the
tools, but we do hope to thenguide our patients into like who

(01:03:01):
else can be on your team toreally help support you in this
area?

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Yeah, sure, have you heard of the book when, when the
body says no.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
I have heard of the book.
I have not read it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
So it's, it's remarkable, so much what you're
saying it's.
It was a cardiologist, that hispatients weren't getting better
.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
And, yes, he was fixing them temporarily and and
and he wasn't, they just weren'tgetting better and he went
deeper, like most of us that gotowards, you know, integrative
that's.
There's something that drove usthere.
So for him he just kept findingpatterns and he could correlate
certain conditions with pastlife events and so he noticed,

(01:03:45):
you know, say, patients withmultiple sclerosis all had like
a similar, you know, situationin their marriage, potentially,
or these similar patterns inlife that caused different
conditions.
And you know, whether you,whether you fully buy into that
or not, just the relation thatthere are these life events and
there are these mind bodyconnections that we know set off

(01:04:09):
a cascade of other events.
So, yeah, I agree with Dr D,it's something that they have to
trust you and you have to givethem the space and sometimes the
space is just not talking.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Yeah, for sure.
I have heard of that book inthat doc.
Yeah, there was a somebodybrought it up to me where they
were like this person I thinkit's the same person correlates.
Everything ailment-wise now canbe linked back to some kind of
childhood trauma or something.
Yeah, but anyway of course noteveryone is going to some kind
of childhood trauma or something.
Yeah, but anyway, of course noteveryone's going to.

(01:04:41):
You know, buy into that.
But I'm like I mean, it's beenproven that psychological
environment, like environmentsand stress and anxiety can
manifest physical symptoms.
Like that's been proven fact.
Yeah, so it can.
It's like, which is justinteresting, like, but anyway, I
think, just from a fullcomprehensive approach like that
, it's not to be not addressedin some fashion.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
You know what I mean, but anyway, that was my
favorite part of practicingmedicine, if I'm being really
honest.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Because I'm sure Joey agrees like we're not going to
heal you, like the patient isgoing to heal themselves, we're
just going to be a guide.
Like the patient is the hero ofthe story, they have everything
they need within them to getbetter.
Sure they'll lean on us andwe're going to be their advocate

(01:05:33):
and champion and coach,collaborator, friend, whatever
but, like, at the end of the day, like they can, they're going
to heal themselves throughself-discovery, through their
willingness to like actuallyaddress matters of the heart and
their mind and their body.
And so I think that's the mostrewarding is those kind of
encounters when they kind ofhave that kind of revelatory

(01:05:55):
break, breakthrough, like, oh,I'm not crazy, like there is a
reason why I feel what I feel.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
It's like yes, yes, yeah, totally yeah, I feel
better just unfolding that yeah,yeah, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
So you mentioned, a great way for people to like get
exposed to you guys and needhelp would be you have tests
that y'all do right online likethe people.
They don't have to be membersto like come in and get tests
and stuff Right.
What's the best way for peopleto reach out to you guys?

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
So I would say, obviously you can call.
I'm happy to do any kind ofconsultation, if um over the
phone.
If you have questions in termsof guiding testing or if you
want to do consult um, you cancome to our office and do a tour
and, you know, get to meet someof the practitioners.
Or you can go to our website atwellnessfirstjunobeachcom.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Okay, gotcha.
And then also real quick, how.
What would you describe to belike your wheelhouse, where it's
like if this is you, we, this,this is our, this is where we
roll up our sleeves Like, thisis what we do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
You're frustrated with the conventional approach
to chronic disease and illnessand you are looking for better
answers.
You don't feel good.
You're told multiple times thatnothing is wrong, all your labs
look good.
Come to us, we will listen andwe will do our very best for you

(01:07:20):
, and if we don't know, we willput all of our heads together
and find a solution or or referyou right.
Like I I I am not of the mindthat I am the doctor for
everyone, right, I don't thinkany of us feel that way, but we
are up for the challenge and wedo think outside the box and we
do lead on pioneers infunctional medicine, integrative

(01:07:41):
medicine that are doing reallycool stuff, and so I think we
are absolutely all committed toconstantly learning and kind of
molding our approach to that toteach patient Cool.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yeah, yeah.
And to add to that, I would sayalso to the patient that wants
to stay healthy, like so,someone that's just like really
eager to you know am I what I,what I'm, my protocol is it
correct, is it benefiting me?
Because we do know, like youwere talking about earlier
epigenetics, we know so much nowand we can really see am I, am

(01:08:17):
I going down the right path?
I want to stay this way, I wantto feel great forever.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Cool, that's awesome.
Well, thank you guys for comingin, thank you for having us
Sharing through your busyschedules and stuff and sharing
insights.
It's always super cool.
And if you have any questions,don't hesitate to reach out.
We always love to haveconversations and at least point
you in the right direction.
We're always open to questions,comments, concerns and
conflicting opinions.
If you have any thoughts on thepodcast or anything like that,

(01:08:41):
and if you want to reach out tous, the best way is probably our
phone number, 561-899-8725.
And I think we could probablyhave another podcast on like
other things too.
You know, yeah, multi-part,exactly.
So we'll have to link up, sowe'll catch y'.