August 4, 2025 • 30 mins
What happens when a veteran police commander discovers both his sons are addicted to heroin? Kim Humphrey, Executive Director of Parents of Addicted Loved Ones (PAL), takes us on a deeply personal journey through the darkest valleys of family addiction and into the light of recovery and hope.
Despite three decades in law enforcement, Kim never saw addiction coming to his own home. When a concerned parent called to warn that his teenage son might overdose, Kim and his wife initially denied the possibility. "You called the wrong house," his wife insisted. This moment began a decade-long nightmare of treatments, relapses, homelessness, and criminal charges that nearly destroyed their family.
Through raw, honest storytelling, Kim reveals how addiction shatters the foundations of family life and how the stigma surrounding substance use disorders often leaves parents isolated and blamed. "We started thinking we must be awful parents," he shares, highlighting how society misunderstands addiction as purely a moral failing rather than a complex brain disorder.
The conversation explores how PAL's unique approach combines education with peer support, helping parents distinguish between healthy support and unhealthy enabling. Kim explains the organization's remarkable growth from a local Phoenix support group to a national network operating in all 50 states and nine countries, serving families dealing with everything from marijuana and alcohol to fentanyl and other synthetic drugs.
Perhaps most powerfully, Kim offers genuine hope. His sons, once at death's door, have maintained sobriety for over a decade. One now works full-time helping others overcome addiction, and Kim proudly anticipates his younger son's upcoming wedding. "I never thought they would even survive," he reflects. "Not everybody's story ends that way, but lots of them do. There is hope and there is a way out."
If you're struggling with a loved one's addiction or know someone who is, visit palgrouporg to find support meetings, resources, and a community that understands the journey ahead.
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https://learnaboutsam.org/
https://gooddrugpolicy.org/
https://thedrugreport.org/
On X:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes or no?
Do you believe nicotine is notaddictive?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
Yes, Congressman, cigarettesand nicotine clearly do not meet
the classic definitions ofaddiction.
I don't believe that nicotinefor our products are addictive.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
I believe that nicotine is notaddictive.
Hello everyone, this is yourhost of the TDR podcast, the
Drug Report.
Thank you for joining us.
My name is Luke Niferadis.
As always, and today we've got areally exciting guest that we
have on the show that I'mlooking forward to introducing
here in a second, but before Ido so, I just want to remind you
that we are very thankful toour two co-sponsoring
(00:35):
organizations, that is, SAM,smart Approaches to Marijuana,
which you can find atlearnaboutsamorg, in addition to
FDPS Foundation for Drug PolicySolutions, which you can find
at gooddrugpolicyorg.
They make this podcast possible, in addition to our brand new
and redesigned website page,which you can go to
thedrugreportorg and check outall the original content that we
(00:57):
are now publishing.
I'm really excited about thatinformation, and so if you're
interested in sponsoring it orconsuming it, or just signing up
for our newsletter, you can goto the website and check that
out as well.
So, without further ado, I'mreally excited to introduce our
guest today, kim Humphrey.
He is the executive director ofPAL, that's, parents of
Addicted Loved Ones, a nationalorganization that's doing just
(01:20):
fantastic work, and I'll let himget into that.
But, kim, welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm doing great, hey.
Thanks so much for having me,you bet.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And so just to give a little bit of a bio for Kim,
kim is a retired commander withmore than 30 years of service in
the Phoenix Police Department,so thank you for your service,
kim.
And during that time, you rosethrough the ranks doing
incredible work.
But unfortunately, while on theforce, you discovered that both
of your sons were addicted toheroin, and for more than a
(01:52):
decade, the family enduredtreatments, rescues, relapses,
but thank God, they foundPowell's support, which he
credits with saving his marriageand his children's lives and
again, this is parents ofaddicted loved ones.
So, after that really amazingexperience, which I want to hear
more about, kim, he became theexecutive director the first
(02:13):
full-time executive director inMarch 2018.
And under his leadership, hetook them from a Phoenix area
organization to having in-persongroups in 38 different states
and virtual meetings in all 50states plus nine countries.
So check them out.
That's palgrouporg.
P-a-l grouporg is their website.
So, kim, thank you again forjoining.
(02:34):
Maybe you can just tell us alittle bit about your story and
then about what PAL is doing.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, I appreciate that and, as you mentioned, you
know, my wife and I we actuallyjust celebrated 40 or are
celebrating 43 years of marriagethis year.
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, it is.
And you know, I would go backin time and tell you that I
never, never, would have thoughtwe'd go down this road, be on
this journey with our sons.
My wife stayed home with ourkids just to have that influence
, and that was the choice thatshe made.
We really thought that life waspretty great, and it was.
(03:19):
And then, when our older sonwas about 15 and we get a phone
call from a concerned parent andmy wife answers the phone and
this parent says hey, you know,my daughter goes to school with
your son and her and her friendsare very concerned about your
son and I don't know how toshare this with you, but they're
afraid that he might overdose.
(03:40):
Now you have to understand.
I was standing there, my wife.
Literally, her response was youcalled the wrong house, you got
the wrong people.
We don't have any problems withour son.
Our son doesn't have a drugproblem and so I don't know how
he could possibly be on theverge of overdosing.
Well, she insisted that herinformation was coming directly
(04:01):
from his friends and you knowshe hangs up.
We call our son into the room,ask him.
You know what's going on.
Of course, he immediately islike I don't know what you're
talking about and at least atthat point you know a little bit
of that.
That police training kind ofkicked in and I said, hey, I
think we need to do a drug test.
And he said what?
(04:22):
You don't trust me?
Well, that was kind of thetelltale sign and, needless to
say, you know, a quick trip overto the drugstore and a drug
test and it showed that he waspositive for opioids.
So we went from nothing,knowing nothing, seeing nothing,
and here I am, I'm in lawenforcement, I know very well
what this looks like and Ididn't see it in my own family,
(04:45):
and that's what can happen.
Is that, you know, we, asparents, we kind of have
blinders and our kids can beinvolved in things and we just
want to believe the best and wejust don't believe that they
could go down this road.
And so, needless to say, yes,that's how, that's how we got
involved.
Uh, unfortunately, a few yearslater, his younger brother went
(05:07):
down the same path.
Uh, I will tell you that, our,our, our marriage, when we sat
and talked about you know what,what did we do and how did this
happen?
And we started thinking well,we're, we must be awful parents
and and that was that was all wecould think of, because you
know what we talked to peopleand we would share it with some
friends and they would saythings like, well, what do you
(05:28):
think you did wrong?
And I'm thinking, well, I don'tknow everything.
I mean, I thought we were doingthe things we should be doing
and all of that.
And I think the reality was thatstigma and the fact that people
don't understand the power ofthese drugs and they'll say
(05:49):
things like that and theyhonestly believe that you know,
it's just this.
Oh, I just made a bad choiceand that's the end of it.
And it's like, well, therecould have been a bad choice
somewhere in there, butsometimes it's not a bad choice.
Sometimes doctors prescribethese medicines and then you end
up with these issues.
Choice Sometimes doctorsprescribe these medicines and
then you end up with theseissues.
So the reality is is that it was.
It was a journey that ended upgoing for many years a decade,
(06:10):
as you mentioned and uh, and itwas awful, it didn't get better,
it got worse.
And so, yeah, you know, whenyou say you're being introduced
as the executive director ofparents of addicted loved ones,
it sort of gives away a littlebit about what you've been
through, and I will tell you,it's not something we planned on
and it certainly is notsomething we hope that other
(06:31):
people have to go through.
But we're also thankful that wehad people that surrounded us
and helped us through it.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, I mean, what a harrowing story, and I'm just
thankful it has such a positiveending, that you were able to
find support in PAL andobviously through your support
systems.
And not only is your marriagesaved.
I think you said you'recelebrating 40 plus years of
marriage, so congratulationsagain on that, and that's an
incredible achievement in and ofitself.
You have both your children,which, across this country, so
(07:02):
many parents can't say that thatthey get to keep both their
children alive when they gothrough a period of substance
abuse like that.
So that's really wonderful thatthat happened.
Maybe you could talk a littlebit about.
You know and it's interestingalso, by the way, what you
talked about as a parent kind ofwanting to.
You know, am I just a badparent?
You know, and I think that'svery natural for parents to say
(07:23):
that.
And I think also, you see, youknow some of the industries that
are involved in creating theseproblems, like the opioid
industry, for example, andobviously we see with marijuana
as well, where the industry willblame the parents for what the
kids, you know, their childrenhave found themselves in.
And you know, it's just, it'svery true, I think, and
important for parents to knowthat this is something that you
(07:45):
know.
Each child yeah, it's yourchild, but they make their own
decisions at the end of the daytoo.
So you know you don't havecomplete control over what
they're going to do right, yeah,that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And it's tough because you're in a culture
today where you know,particularly when you talk about
marijuana and a lot of thelegalization efforts and all of
that, and I'll never forget myyounger son.
He had a love affair withmarijuana and so, yes, he ended
up on opioids and heroin andmeth and other drugs too.
But even when he was trying to,you know, face the fact that he
(08:22):
had, you know, criminal stuffhappening and he had all these
health issues happening and he,he had finally come to a
conclusion that you know he wasgoing to, he was going to get
away from those quote unquotehard drugs and and uh, but he
wasn't going to give upmarijuana, he was just going to
you know what, I'm going to befine, I'm going to be able to do
that and probably drink too.
(08:42):
And it's and it's interestinghow, as he, as he went through
treatment and as he eventuallystarted to realize, you know,
what was going on in his life,that that those things were were
just as a big of an issue tohim as the as the others.
And he told me a story one time.
He said he was, you know,trying to, of course, manipulate
(09:06):
and and, and I hate to say itbut, like you know, kind of toss
it back at us because, becausewe were setting some boundaries,
like you know, if you're, ifyou're using these substances,
you know you're an adult and andwell, frankly, they would steal
from us and other things.
I'm like you can't live in ourhome, you know.
I mean, we're here for you, wewant to help you, but that's a
(09:26):
problem.
And he told me one day.
He says, you know, well, you'renot like my friends.
You know, I showed up at myfriend and he named his friend
who.
I know these people, his dadgreeted me at the door, smoking
marijuana.
He says he goes.
They think it's fine.
So what's wrong with you?
Why?
Why do you have such a problemwith this?
And that's tough to you know,when you start dealing with the
(09:49):
fact that you know he's goingover to friends, they're letting
him in their family, is isengaged in this kind of activity
, and then you're trying to say,well, hang on a second, you
know, and it's, you're just in a, you're in a war with the
culture, with their friends,their peers, and a lot of
misinformation, and that justmakes it that much harder.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Absolutely.
Now I want to come back to thismisinformation marijuana's kind
of role to play here.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
But before we get to that, maybe just real quick you
can give folks a synopsis ofwhat PAL does and what services
they're offering throughout thecountry.
Yeah, so PAL started when asubstance abuse counselor at a
treatment center noticed a lotmore younger people coming in to
treatment many years ago and hestarted to also realize that
their parents, their family,were involved.
But the problem was is, frankly, he said, you know what they're
(10:50):
not helping.
They're actually coming in andthey're trying to do these
things to help their children,but in the long run they're
actually sometimes contributingto it and they just don't know,
they don't understand, they'renot educated and their normal
parenting skills are tellingthem to do one thing and
unfortunately, that's nothelping.
(11:11):
And so you know, as a parent,you want to believe your
children, you want to believeeverything they say, and so you
know when they say things likeyou know, well, I just need $50
because you want me to get a job, well, I need to get some
clothes, you know.
So I'm going to use the moneyto get some clothes.
And you're just thinking well,of course that's what they'll do
, and anybody from the outsidelistening is going.
(11:33):
Well, of course, they won't.
If they're using drugs, they'regoing to use that to buy drugs.
But parents put these blinderson and they just want so badly
to believe it and they're justafraid of setting boundaries and
they're afraid of they don'twant to lose that relationship.
And so he saw that and he saidyou know, I need to put
something together that willhelp educate parents to the
(11:55):
issue.
So it's not just and I say notjust meaning I don't want to say
anything negative aboutanything, that's just support.
But it's not just support.
Our meetings are in educationand support.
So we have a curriculum aroundaddiction and recovery.
So every week when people cometo these weekly meetings, they
can expect to go through thiseducational topic, that's on all
(12:16):
kinds of aspects of addictionand recovery, learn about it,
you know, hopefully understandthe whole issue better and then,
second, have an opportunity tobe around peers that are going
through it and then they canshare their story.
And in this case we encouragecrosstalk, so we encourage
(12:37):
people.
If you want a suggestion, youknow I'm in the meeting.
What's going on?
Well, you know my son, mydaughter.
They called this is what theyasked me.
They want me to do this and youcan say hey, does that?
Has anybody else been down this?
Has anybody else done thatbefore down this road.
You know, and, and they saysure, and they can share their
(12:57):
stories if you want.
Now, if you don't want to, youdon't have to.
But the reality is is that whenyou're, when you're not, around
people that don't understandthis, then you get those
comments, like I said at thebeginning, like what do you
think you did wrong?
And it's like, well, you knowthat's one that's not helpful
because I don't even know.
And the reality is I don'treally think what we were doing
(13:21):
was wrong.
I think we were doing the bestwe could with the information we
had, but the reality issomebody that's not dealing with
this, they don't understand itand they really honestly think
it's just a moral issue, likeit's just a right and wrong.
You can trust me on this.
My kids grew up knowing 100% thedifference between right and
wrong.
They knew drugs were bad.
(13:41):
They knew that drugs lead tobad things.
But that's not the point,because today's drugs are very
different than the drugs in thepast and you know, sometimes
it's just that one time,sometimes it's.
You know, they get engaged inthis stuff and they can't get
out, and so part of it is isunderstanding that brain
(14:02):
chemistry and all these otherthings.
So, again, that educational,that support piece.
And that's why what people willfind when they come to a PAL
meeting, they will find theopportunity to to be around
others that are going throughthis as well as to learn, and
then you know what they canchoose, you know what they want
to do.
They can, they're going to besupported regardless, but they
(14:25):
can look at this and go.
You know what I could see.
You know what I probablyshouldn't do this.
I probably should set aboundary, but that's up to them
and the key is is to do this ina loving way, in a way that you
maintain that relationship sothat you can have some influence
over them for their recoveryit's really cool.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
thank you for the great work that you're doing, uh
, and providing this resource toparents.
It's really outstanding.
Tell me about how.
So, coming back to what we weretalking about with marijuana,
so you know, obviously we'veseen marijuana legalization
become a big issue and there's ayou know a number of states
that have legalized it.
Thankfully, most states havenot legalized it.
I think some people forget that, but you know there's a
(15:04):
perception out there that's allover the place and there's
certainly been normalizationthrough the media, et cetera.
So how is that impacting thework that Powell is doing?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, I can tell you from a couple of perspectives.
One, you know, having beeninvolved in this issue for you
know going on more than twodecades now and my law
enforcement career as well asyou know dealing with this from
a family perspective, you knowI've seen the transition from
(15:34):
the marijuana of old to themarijuana of today.
And you know that marijuana oftoday, where I'm having a parent
describe to me, you know, overthe phone, you know, the
symptoms that their son ordaughter is going through, you
know over the phone, you knowthe symptoms that their son or
daughter is going through andthey're saying things like, well
(15:58):
, they've lost a lot of weight,they don't sleep, they're very
hyper.
And I'm thinking, well, typicalmethamphetamine, something like
that, and I'm thinking, yeah,that sounds like what that is.
And they, they, we talk moreand eventually they, they take
their, their son or daughter in,they get a drug test THC,
nothing else and you go.
Well, I don't understand.
(16:18):
That's not, that's not mystereotypical understanding of
what somebody has when it comesto this.
Well, that's because there isno stereotypical when it comes
to somebody that's taking thishigh potency THC, these, these,
these things that are way, way,way more potent than they were
in the past and they're havingall kinds of adverse effects,
(16:39):
you know, on people and they'renot, they're just can't look and
go.
Oh, that's what this is now.
And so part of it is is there'sa huge misunderstanding that
it's just this.
Oh, it's just like in the pastand people would just laugh and
what's on TV and lay around andit's just for fun.
It's not necessarily just forfun.
(17:00):
I know numerous people haveended up in the hospital over
this and they've been in veryserious situations where they
didn't know they were going tosurvive.
And then, of course, we havelots of individuals coming
through our meetings where theirloved ones are getting arrested
, and they're getting arrestedfor everything from, you know,
driving under the influence,where this is the culprit.
(17:22):
And then, of course, we're justseeing more and more that it's
just a part of this all theother drugs that they're engaged
in, and so over time, we'vejust seen more and more
individuals.
So that's anecdotal, but I willsay that, having done this
meeting for 13 plus years as avolunteer as well as in my role,
(17:45):
you know we've had thousands ofpeople come through this
meeting and and we're justseeing more and more of this
issue and and I think the hardpart is is when a parent comes
in, like we have.
We have one recently and thismom comes in and she's
explaining all this and she'sshe's struggling with, you know,
dealing with her son and she's,you know, wanting this help and
(18:07):
all this other stuff, and andthen after a little while we get
to know her and she keepscoming back and then eventually
she says, well, part of theissue is, is my husband does
this too?
He, he smokes marijuana everyday and she goes and it's really
hard for me because my son seesthat and my son is like, well,
(18:30):
my dad's doing it, and so youknow, she's sitting there kind
of on an island and now she'sactually dealing with both her
son and her husband.
So, yeah, it's just been atremendous change over the years
.
And, and of course, the other,the other drugs are still
prevalent and there's all thenew drugs on the market now and
(18:54):
stronger than coming out and allthis other stuff.
But it's just, it's just asignificant issue out there and
it's hard, it's hard to, it'shard to figure out how to travel
through this.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I think a lot of people think of you know you
mentioned kind of hard and softdrugs.
I you know, obviously theythink of marijuana as a soft
drug, no big deal.
And so I think it's importantand I appreciate you sharing
some of these anecdotes becauseI think it's important for
people to understand that in therecovery community you have
people coming into the recoverycommunity who are recovering,
obviously, from marijuanaaddiction.
You have parents of addictedloved ones who they're addicted
(19:27):
loved ones that started withmarijuana for them, or marijuana
is the problem for them, and soI just think it's it's vital
that the public understands theharms that this drug also has,
uh on society.
But you do you, you rightlynote that.
You know we have other crisesnow as well, and obviously
fentanyl is, uh what everyone isthinking about at this point,
and the synthetic drug crisismore globally, because there was
(19:50):
a recent write-up just theother day in the Wall Street
Journal on nitazine as wellnitazine and so obviously the
nefarious actors and cartels arecoming up with new and more
potent concoctions, it seemslike every month.
What was this influencingPowell's work?
How is this influencing yourpopulations that you're serving?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, the first and foremost influence is the fact
that, you know, we have parentscome to meetings and they start
asking questions, and they comein and they'll share something
that we've never heard, and andyou're thinking, well, I've
heard of all of this and and,and I'm out there all the time
and they say, well, they werejust hospitalized, my son, my
(20:33):
daughter, and they, theyeventually figured out that they
have this drug called ISO, youknow, and we're like, well, I
don't even know what ISO is, aswhat you just mentioned.
You just you just explainedwhat it is, but that's actually
been popping up for quite awhile, but it hadn't really
taken hold.
And then we hear about anotherone and another one, and so when
(20:55):
these things start to happen,first, first of all, we realized
that I mean, this is an age oldissue.
I mean this this is not forlack of any other way of saying.
This is a new that theseindividuals come up with these
different things and trydifferent ways to, to to provide
these, these different drugsout there.
(21:16):
You know I've been in law.
You know I was in lawenforcement 32 years and I've
been retired for, you know, 11.
So for the last 43 years that Iwas involved in it, I saw, you
know, those things change overthe years consistently, and so
one of the biggest issues is is,when these much more potent
drugs came on there, there wasjust this, this, uh, this
(21:40):
problem with well, frankly, justto say it, I mean, sometimes
they, their son or daughter,took it once and that was it and
they lost them, and so therewas no more of this.
Oh, I'm just going to go outand experiment, you know, for a
little while.
And then the biggest problemthat I've seen is they say, well
(22:00):
, it's not a problem, because myson or my daughter, all they do
is again all they do is do this, this, and then guess what one?
it's laced with one of theseother drugs and then they lose a
life.
It's, it's tainted, it'sadulterated, and especially, you
(22:21):
know, in vaping, you know, andthey're mixing these things and
putting them in there and, and Ialways think it's interesting,
people say, say, why wouldsomebody do that?
Well, a lot of times they don'tknow, but then again, sometimes
they do know.
But even you know these drugdealers, you know they're
looking for ways to keep thesepeople engaged.
And so sometimes you know, I'msure, that they make conscious
(22:45):
decisions to do this, just to to, to try, and, you know, keep
people engaged with them.
And so, yeah, it's been sad,it's been really sad to see this
.
And, and especially for peoplethat come in and think, well, it
was no big deal years ago.
I just, you know, I I smoked alittle, uh, you know, marijuana
here and there.
It was no big deal.
It's like you can't do thatanymore.
(23:06):
You have to, you have torealize that, that you don't
know what you're getting yourhands on, and and so, yeah, it's
, it is interesting and it'stough because there's just this.
Well, again back to thismisinformation, there's just
this idea that you know allthey're just experimenting.
They're just, you know, they'rejust going to try what they're
(23:27):
going to try and it's like well,I hope not.
I hope for your sake thatthat's not true.
I hope that you can instill inthem, you know some, some
decision-making skills where, asyou said, when they become
adults, you're not going tocontrol it.
But I will tell you that ifyou've instilled those
decision-making skills in themand they understand consequences
(23:47):
, then maybe, when they're facedwith this, their mind will say,
oh yeah, that might be a reallybad idea, you know, and maybe
they won't do it.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I think that's a key role for parents, absolutely,
and a really good place.
As we're kind of rounding up afew minutes left in our time, so
maybe any last message youwould convey to parents right
now who maybe they have addictedloved ones.
What would your message be tothem as we close this out?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, I think the key is realizing that pretty much
everybody knows somebody withthis issue, whether you
recognize it or not.
So you're dealing with it, it'sin your family, it's with your
friends, somebody you know isdealing with this issue and
until we get rid of this stigmaand people are willing to talk
(24:38):
about it more, it's tough.
We had a person come to ourmeeting recently and this
gentleman showed up.
We hadn't seen him before hesat down.
We got around to him sharingand he said listen us, because
he keeps lying to us, becausehe's not getting any help and we
(25:14):
can't have him around becausehe's just not getting any help.
And he says and she threw meout, he goes and I've been
driving around all day trying tofigure out what I'm doing.
She says she says I'm notwilling to do that.
And he says so I came herebecause I don't know what to do.
He goes my marriage, my family,my son and all of this.
(25:38):
And so he shared all of thisand as we talked to him and
encouraged him and tried to helphim understand why they would
react this way, why they'resaying this, why his wife is
like that and how important itis that they try and come at
this together, but that's notreally my point.
(25:58):
My point is that his wife is 82and she was 80 and their son is
in his 60s and they are stilldealing with this, and that's
the kind of thing.
We get people in there thathave adolescence.
We get people in there that arein their eighties and it's
(26:19):
still devastating their families, and so if someone has this
going on and you know somebody,please refer them so they can
find a meeting and they can getthat support and then, hopefully
, the education as well, so thatthey can make good, healthy
decisions.
We don't like to use the wordsright and wrong.
We like to use the wordshealthy and unhealthy.
(26:42):
And there's healthy ways torespond to your loved ones,
there's healthy ways to supportthem, there's healthy ways to
get that opportunity toinfluence them to head in the
right direction.
But there's also unhealthythings that you can do, and
sadly, you can end up in a placewhere you feel alone, you feel
(27:03):
there is no hope and that youhave no concept or clue about
how to get there, and so I willshare with you this that you
know we were at that point withour sons between the criminal
activity, the overdoses, wherewe didn't know they would ever
survive, to the fact that theywere homeless, the fact that we
didn't know where they were, thefact that we couldn't find them
(27:24):
for months at a time.
You know, I thought they werelost, I thought it was done, and
the reality is is that westarted to change how we
responded to them.
We were encouraging, we weretheir cheerleaders, but we were
not going to enable, we weregoing to do what we could to
(27:45):
help them to see and hopefullyfind you know that path and take
that journey, and you know what.
And take that journey and youknow what, one day, after a very
serious illness and after someserious criminal activity, you
know, our older son was thefirst one and he he essentially
was in a hospital bed when hemade a decision and says I can't
(28:06):
do this anymore.
And he made a personal decisionthat he was going to check
himself into a treatment program, which he did, which ended up
putting him into a program forover a year, during which time
he tracked down his littlebrother, was able to convince
him to go into a treatmentprogram.
He was really unwell too.
(28:27):
He was six foot three, weighed137 pounds when he went into
treatment and he eventuallystarted down that road, and
today I will tell you thatthey're celebrating around 11 or
12 years of sobriety.
They've been in recovery, theyvolunteer, they work in this
(28:48):
field to some extent.
The older one, that's what hedoes full-time.
The younger one does itsometimes and part time.
But here's the thing I now havea family that's back.
I have two beautifulgrandchildren, my younger son's
getting married in November, andI never thought they would even
survive, and so I know.
(29:09):
Not everybody's story ends thatway, but I can just tell you
that some do, lots of them do,and there is hope and there is a
way out, and sometimes you justneed that support and help to
get you from where you are towhere hopefully you won't be
Very powerful.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Kim, thank you for sharing your family story.
Thank you for the great workthat you're doing personally as
well as professionally at PAL.
So how can people connect withPAL?
Where can they find you all?
So?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
again, our website is palgrouporg and if you just go
on that website, there's lots ofresources.
We have a YouTube channel.
We have a newsletter you cansign up for.
Every month You'll getinformation.
We are connected with Sam andother organizations to provide
(30:00):
information, and PAN, whichyou're familiar with, the Parent
Action Network.
We've had them at our eventsand so we want to work together
to educate the community tohopefully, you know, provide,
you know the families that needour services, but also others
that are just looking forinformation and ways to support
(30:20):
and ways to get involved.
So if you go to our website,powergrouporg and you can always
email us at info atpowergrouporg- so thank you, cam
.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you very much for being on the show To our
listeners.
Thank you for listening.
Please leave us a five-starreview if you have the time and
write us a review is alwayswonderful and check out
palgrouporg.
Thank you, kim, for everything.
Thank you.
Yes or no?
Do you believe nicotine is notaddictive?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
Yes, Congressman, cigarettesand nicotine clearly do not meet
the classic definitions ofaddiction.
I don't believe that nicotinefor our products are addictive.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
I believe that nicotine is notaddictive.
Hello everyone, this is yourhost of the TDR podcast, the
Drug Report.
Thank you for joining us.
My name is Luke Niferadis.
As always, and today we've got areally exciting guest that we
have on the show that I'mlooking forward to introducing
here in a second, but before Ido so, I just want to remind you
that we are very thankful toour two co-sponsoring
(00:35):
organizations, that is, SAM,smart Approaches to Marijuana,
which you can find atlearnaboutsamorg, in addition to
FDPS Foundation for Drug PolicySolutions, which you can find
at gooddrugpolicyorg.
They make this podcast possible, in addition to our brand new
and redesigned website page,which you can go to
thedrugreportorg and check outall the original content that we
(00:57):
are now publishing.
I'm really excited about thatinformation, and so if you're
interested in sponsoring it orconsuming it, or just signing up
for our newsletter, you can goto the website and check that
out as well.
So, without further ado, I'mreally excited to introduce our
guest today, kim Humphrey.
He is the executive director ofPAL, that's, parents of
Addicted Loved Ones, a nationalorganization that's doing just
(01:20):
fantastic work, and I'll let himget into that.
But, kim, welcome to the show.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I'm doing great, hey.
Thanks so much for having me,you bet.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
And so just to give a little bit of a bio for Kim,
kim is a retired commander withmore than 30 years of service in
the Phoenix Police Department,so thank you for your service,
kim.
And during that time, you rosethrough the ranks doing
incredible work.
But unfortunately, while on theforce, you discovered that both
of your sons were addicted toheroin, and for more than a
(01:52):
decade, the family enduredtreatments, rescues, relapses,
but thank God, they foundPowell's support, which he
credits with saving his marriageand his children's lives and
again, this is parents ofaddicted loved ones.
So, after that really amazingexperience, which I want to hear
more about, kim, he became theexecutive director the first
(02:13):
full-time executive director inMarch 2018.
And under his leadership, hetook them from a Phoenix area
organization to having in-persongroups in 38 different states
and virtual meetings in all 50states plus nine countries.
So check them out.
That's palgrouporg.
P-a-l grouporg is their website.
So, kim, thank you again forjoining.
(02:34):
Maybe you can just tell us alittle bit about your story and
then about what PAL is doing.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, I appreciate that and, as you mentioned, you
know, my wife and I we actuallyjust celebrated 40 or are
celebrating 43 years of marriagethis year.
Congratulations.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, it is.
And you know, I would go backin time and tell you that I
never, never, would have thoughtwe'd go down this road, be on
this journey with our sons.
My wife stayed home with ourkids just to have that influence
, and that was the choice thatshe made.
We really thought that life waspretty great, and it was.
(03:19):
And then, when our older sonwas about 15 and we get a phone
call from a concerned parent andmy wife answers the phone and
this parent says hey, you know,my daughter goes to school with
your son and her and her friendsare very concerned about your
son and I don't know how toshare this with you, but they're
afraid that he might overdose.
(03:40):
Now you have to understand.
I was standing there, my wife.
Literally, her response was youcalled the wrong house, you got
the wrong people.
We don't have any problems withour son.
Our son doesn't have a drugproblem and so I don't know how
he could possibly be on theverge of overdosing.
Well, she insisted that herinformation was coming directly
(04:01):
from his friends and you knowshe hangs up.
We call our son into the room,ask him.
You know what's going on.
Of course, he immediately islike I don't know what you're
talking about and at least atthat point you know a little bit
of that.
That police training kind ofkicked in and I said, hey, I
think we need to do a drug test.
And he said what?
(04:22):
You don't trust me?
Well, that was kind of thetelltale sign and, needless to
say, you know, a quick trip overto the drugstore and a drug
test and it showed that he waspositive for opioids.
So we went from nothing,knowing nothing, seeing nothing,
and here I am, I'm in lawenforcement, I know very well
what this looks like and Ididn't see it in my own family,
(04:45):
and that's what can happen.
Is that, you know, we, asparents, we kind of have
blinders and our kids can beinvolved in things and we just
want to believe the best and wejust don't believe that they
could go down this road.
And so, needless to say, yes,that's how, that's how we got
involved.
Uh, unfortunately, a few yearslater, his younger brother went
(05:07):
down the same path.
Uh, I will tell you that, our,our, our marriage, when we sat
and talked about you know what,what did we do and how did this
happen?
And we started thinking well,we're, we must be awful parents
and and that was that was all wecould think of, because you
know what we talked to peopleand we would share it with some
friends and they would saythings like, well, what do you
(05:28):
think you did wrong?
And I'm thinking, well, I don'tknow everything.
I mean, I thought we were doingthe things we should be doing
and all of that.
And I think the reality was thatstigma and the fact that people
don't understand the power ofthese drugs and they'll say
(05:49):
things like that and theyhonestly believe that you know,
it's just this.
Oh, I just made a bad choiceand that's the end of it.
And it's like, well, therecould have been a bad choice
somewhere in there, butsometimes it's not a bad choice.
Sometimes doctors prescribethese medicines and then you end
up with these issues.
Choice Sometimes doctorsprescribe these medicines and
then you end up with theseissues.
So the reality is is that it was.
It was a journey that ended upgoing for many years a decade,
(06:10):
as you mentioned and uh, and itwas awful, it didn't get better,
it got worse.
And so, yeah, you know, whenyou say you're being introduced
as the executive director ofparents of addicted loved ones,
it sort of gives away a littlebit about what you've been
through, and I will tell you,it's not something we planned on
and it certainly is notsomething we hope that other
(06:31):
people have to go through.
But we're also thankful that wehad people that surrounded us
and helped us through it.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, I mean, what a harrowing story, and I'm just
thankful it has such a positiveending, that you were able to
find support in PAL andobviously through your support
systems.
And not only is your marriagesaved.
I think you said you'recelebrating 40 plus years of
marriage, so congratulationsagain on that, and that's an
incredible achievement in and ofitself.
You have both your children,which, across this country, so
(07:02):
many parents can't say that thatthey get to keep both their
children alive when they gothrough a period of substance
abuse like that.
So that's really wonderful thatthat happened.
Maybe you could talk a littlebit about.
You know and it's interestingalso, by the way, what you
talked about as a parent kind ofwanting to.
You know, am I just a badparent?
You know, and I think that'svery natural for parents to say
(07:23):
that.
And I think also, you see, youknow some of the industries that
are involved in creating theseproblems, like the opioid
industry, for example, andobviously we see with marijuana
as well, where the industry willblame the parents for what the
kids, you know, their childrenhave found themselves in.
And you know, it's just, it'svery true, I think, and
important for parents to knowthat this is something that you
(07:45):
know.
Each child yeah, it's yourchild, but they make their own
decisions at the end of the daytoo.
So you know you don't havecomplete control over what
they're going to do right, yeah,that's right.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
And it's tough because you're in a culture
today where you know,particularly when you talk about
marijuana and a lot of thelegalization efforts and all of
that, and I'll never forget myyounger son.
He had a love affair withmarijuana and so, yes, he ended
up on opioids and heroin andmeth and other drugs too.
But even when he was trying to,you know, face the fact that he
(08:22):
had, you know, criminal stuffhappening and he had all these
health issues happening and he,he had finally come to a
conclusion that you know he wasgoing to, he was going to get
away from those quote unquotehard drugs and and uh, but he
wasn't going to give upmarijuana, he was just going to
you know what, I'm going to befine, I'm going to be able to do
that and probably drink too.
(08:42):
And it's and it's interestinghow, as he, as he went through
treatment and as he eventuallystarted to realize, you know,
what was going on in his life,that that those things were were
just as a big of an issue tohim as the as the others.
And he told me a story one time.
He said he was, you know,trying to, of course, manipulate
(09:06):
and and, and I hate to say itbut, like you know, kind of toss
it back at us because, becausewe were setting some boundaries,
like you know, if you're, ifyou're using these substances,
you know you're an adult and andwell, frankly, they would steal
from us and other things.
I'm like you can't live in ourhome, you know.
I mean, we're here for you, wewant to help you, but that's a
(09:26):
problem.
And he told me one day.
He says, you know, well, you'renot like my friends.
You know, I showed up at myfriend and he named his friend
who.
I know these people, his dadgreeted me at the door, smoking
marijuana.
He says he goes.
They think it's fine.
So what's wrong with you?
Why?
Why do you have such a problemwith this?
And that's tough to you know,when you start dealing with the
(09:49):
fact that you know he's goingover to friends, they're letting
him in their family, is isengaged in this kind of activity
, and then you're trying to say,well, hang on a second, you
know, and it's, you're just in a, you're in a war with the
culture, with their friends,their peers, and a lot of
misinformation, and that justmakes it that much harder.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Absolutely.
Now I want to come back to thismisinformation marijuana's kind
of role to play here.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
But before we get to that, maybe just real quick you
can give folks a synopsis ofwhat PAL does and what services
they're offering throughout thecountry.
Yeah, so PAL started when asubstance abuse counselor at a
treatment center noticed a lotmore younger people coming in to
treatment many years ago and hestarted to also realize that
their parents, their family,were involved.
But the problem was is, frankly, he said, you know what they're
(10:50):
not helping.
They're actually coming in andthey're trying to do these
things to help their children,but in the long run they're
actually sometimes contributingto it and they just don't know,
they don't understand, they'renot educated and their normal
parenting skills are tellingthem to do one thing and
unfortunately, that's nothelping.
(11:11):
And so you know, as a parent,you want to believe your
children, you want to believeeverything they say, and so you
know when they say things likeyou know, well, I just need $50
because you want me to get a job, well, I need to get some
clothes, you know.
So I'm going to use the moneyto get some clothes.
And you're just thinking well,of course that's what they'll do
, and anybody from the outsidelistening is going.
(11:33):
Well, of course, they won't.
If they're using drugs, they'regoing to use that to buy drugs.
But parents put these blinderson and they just want so badly
to believe it and they're justafraid of setting boundaries and
they're afraid of they don'twant to lose that relationship.
And so he saw that and he saidyou know, I need to put
something together that willhelp educate parents to the
(11:55):
issue.
So it's not just and I say notjust meaning I don't want to say
anything negative aboutanything, that's just support.
But it's not just support.
Our meetings are in educationand support.
So we have a curriculum aroundaddiction and recovery.
So every week when people cometo these weekly meetings, they
can expect to go through thiseducational topic, that's on all
(12:16):
kinds of aspects of addictionand recovery, learn about it,
you know, hopefully understandthe whole issue better and then,
second, have an opportunity tobe around peers that are going
through it and then they canshare their story.
And in this case we encouragecrosstalk, so we encourage
(12:37):
people.
If you want a suggestion, youknow I'm in the meeting.
What's going on?
Well, you know my son, mydaughter.
They called this is what theyasked me.
They want me to do this and youcan say hey, does that?
Has anybody else been down this?
Has anybody else done thatbefore down this road.
You know, and, and they saysure, and they can share their
(12:57):
stories if you want.
Now, if you don't want to, youdon't have to.
But the reality is is that whenyou're, when you're not, around
people that don't understandthis, then you get those
comments, like I said at thebeginning, like what do you
think you did wrong?
And it's like, well, you knowthat's one that's not helpful
because I don't even know.
And the reality is I don'treally think what we were doing
(13:21):
was wrong.
I think we were doing the bestwe could with the information we
had, but the reality issomebody that's not dealing with
this, they don't understand itand they really honestly think
it's just a moral issue, likeit's just a right and wrong.
You can trust me on this.
My kids grew up knowing 100% thedifference between right and
wrong.
They knew drugs were bad.
(13:41):
They knew that drugs lead tobad things.
But that's not the point,because today's drugs are very
different than the drugs in thepast and you know, sometimes
it's just that one time,sometimes it's.
You know, they get engaged inthis stuff and they can't get
out, and so part of it is isunderstanding that brain
(14:02):
chemistry and all these otherthings.
So, again, that educational,that support piece.
And that's why what people willfind when they come to a PAL
meeting, they will find theopportunity to to be around
others that are going throughthis as well as to learn, and
then you know what they canchoose, you know what they want
to do.
They can, they're going to besupported regardless, but they
(14:25):
can look at this and go.
You know what I could see.
You know what I probablyshouldn't do this.
I probably should set aboundary, but that's up to them
and the key is is to do this ina loving way, in a way that you
maintain that relationship sothat you can have some influence
over them for their recoveryit's really cool.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
thank you for the great work that you're doing, uh
, and providing this resource toparents.
It's really outstanding.
Tell me about how.
So, coming back to what we weretalking about with marijuana,
so you know, obviously we'veseen marijuana legalization
become a big issue and there's ayou know a number of states
that have legalized it.
Thankfully, most states havenot legalized it.
I think some people forget that, but you know there's a
(15:04):
perception out there that's allover the place and there's
certainly been normalizationthrough the media, et cetera.
So how is that impacting thework that Powell is doing?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well, I can tell you from a couple of perspectives.
One, you know, having beeninvolved in this issue for you
know going on more than twodecades now and my law
enforcement career as well asyou know dealing with this from
a family perspective, you knowI've seen the transition from
(15:34):
the marijuana of old to themarijuana of today.
And you know that marijuana oftoday, where I'm having a parent
describe to me, you know, overthe phone, you know, the
symptoms that their son ordaughter is going through, you
know over the phone, you knowthe symptoms that their son or
daughter is going through andthey're saying things like, well
(15:58):
, they've lost a lot of weight,they don't sleep, they're very
hyper.
And I'm thinking, well, typicalmethamphetamine, something like
that, and I'm thinking, yeah,that sounds like what that is.
And they, they, we talk moreand eventually they, they take
their, their son or daughter in,they get a drug test THC,
nothing else and you go.
Well, I don't understand.
(16:18):
That's not, that's not mystereotypical understanding of
what somebody has when it comesto this.
Well, that's because there isno stereotypical when it comes
to somebody that's taking thishigh potency THC, these, these,
these things that are way, way,way more potent than they were
in the past and they're havingall kinds of adverse effects,
(16:39):
you know, on people and they'renot, they're just can't look and
go.
Oh, that's what this is now.
And so part of it is is there'sa huge misunderstanding that
it's just this.
Oh, it's just like in the pastand people would just laugh and
what's on TV and lay around andit's just for fun.
It's not necessarily just forfun.
(17:00):
I know numerous people haveended up in the hospital over
this and they've been in veryserious situations where they
didn't know they were going tosurvive.
And then, of course, we havelots of individuals coming
through our meetings where theirloved ones are getting arrested
, and they're getting arrestedfor everything from, you know,
driving under the influence,where this is the culprit.
(17:22):
And then, of course, we're justseeing more and more that it's
just a part of this all theother drugs that they're engaged
in, and so over time, we'vejust seen more and more
individuals.
So that's anecdotal, but I willsay that, having done this
meeting for 13 plus years as avolunteer as well as in my role,
(17:45):
you know we've had thousands ofpeople come through this
meeting and and we're justseeing more and more of this
issue and and I think the hardpart is is when a parent comes
in, like we have.
We have one recently and thismom comes in and she's
explaining all this and she'sshe's struggling with, you know,
dealing with her son and she's,you know, wanting this help and
(18:07):
all this other stuff, and andthen after a little while we get
to know her and she keepscoming back and then eventually
she says, well, part of theissue is, is my husband does
this too?
He, he smokes marijuana everyday and she goes and it's really
hard for me because my son seesthat and my son is like, well,
(18:30):
my dad's doing it, and so youknow, she's sitting there kind
of on an island and now she'sactually dealing with both her
son and her husband.
So, yeah, it's just been atremendous change over the years
.
And, and of course, the other,the other drugs are still
prevalent and there's all thenew drugs on the market now and
(18:54):
stronger than coming out and allthis other stuff.
But it's just, it's just asignificant issue out there and
it's hard, it's hard to, it'shard to figure out how to travel
through this.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, I think a lot of people think of you know you
mentioned kind of hard and softdrugs.
I you know, obviously theythink of marijuana as a soft
drug, no big deal.
And so I think it's importantand I appreciate you sharing
some of these anecdotes becauseI think it's important for
people to understand that in therecovery community you have
people coming into the recoverycommunity who are recovering,
obviously, from marijuanaaddiction.
You have parents of addictedloved ones who they're addicted
(19:27):
loved ones that started withmarijuana for them, or marijuana
is the problem for them, and soI just think it's it's vital
that the public understands theharms that this drug also has,
uh on society.
But you do you, you rightlynote that.
You know we have other crisesnow as well, and obviously
fentanyl is, uh what everyone isthinking about at this point,
and the synthetic drug crisismore globally, because there was
(19:50):
a recent write-up just theother day in the Wall Street
Journal on nitazine as wellnitazine and so obviously the
nefarious actors and cartels arecoming up with new and more
potent concoctions, it seemslike every month.
What was this influencingPowell's work?
How is this influencing yourpopulations that you're serving?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, the first and foremost influence is the fact
that, you know, we have parentscome to meetings and they start
asking questions, and they comein and they'll share something
that we've never heard, and andyou're thinking, well, I've
heard of all of this and and,and I'm out there all the time
and they say, well, they werejust hospitalized, my son, my
(20:33):
daughter, and they, theyeventually figured out that they
have this drug called ISO, youknow, and we're like, well, I
don't even know what ISO is, aswhat you just mentioned.
You just you just explainedwhat it is, but that's actually
been popping up for quite awhile, but it hadn't really
taken hold.
And then we hear about anotherone and another one, and so when
(20:55):
these things start to happen,first, first of all, we realized
that I mean, this is an age oldissue.
I mean this this is not forlack of any other way of saying.
This is a new that theseindividuals come up with these
different things and trydifferent ways to, to to provide
these, these different drugsout there.
(21:16):
You know I've been in law.
You know I was in lawenforcement 32 years and I've
been retired for, you know, 11.
So for the last 43 years that Iwas involved in it, I saw, you
know, those things change overthe years consistently, and so
one of the biggest issues is is,when these much more potent
drugs came on there, there wasjust this, this, uh, this
(21:40):
problem with well, frankly, justto say it, I mean, sometimes
they, their son or daughter,took it once and that was it and
they lost them, and so therewas no more of this.
Oh, I'm just going to go outand experiment, you know, for a
little while.
And then the biggest problemthat I've seen is they say, well
(22:00):
, it's not a problem, because myson or my daughter, all they do
is again all they do is do this, this, and then guess what one?
it's laced with one of theseother drugs and then they lose a
life.
It's, it's tainted, it'sadulterated, and especially, you
(22:21):
know, in vaping, you know, andthey're mixing these things and
putting them in there and, and Ialways think it's interesting,
people say, say, why wouldsomebody do that?
Well, a lot of times they don'tknow, but then again, sometimes
they do know.
But even you know these drugdealers, you know they're
looking for ways to keep thesepeople engaged.
And so sometimes you know, I'msure, that they make conscious
(22:45):
decisions to do this, just to to, to try, and, you know, keep
people engaged with them.
And so, yeah, it's been sad,it's been really sad to see this
.
And, and especially for peoplethat come in and think, well, it
was no big deal years ago.
I just, you know, I I smoked alittle, uh, you know, marijuana
here and there.
It was no big deal.
It's like you can't do thatanymore.
(23:06):
You have to, you have torealize that, that you don't
know what you're getting yourhands on, and and so, yeah, it's
, it is interesting and it'stough because there's just this.
Well, again back to thismisinformation, there's just
this idea that you know allthey're just experimenting.
They're just, you know, they'rejust going to try what they're
(23:27):
going to try and it's like well,I hope not.
I hope for your sake thatthat's not true.
I hope that you can instill inthem, you know some, some
decision-making skills where, asyou said, when they become
adults, you're not going tocontrol it.
But I will tell you that ifyou've instilled those
decision-making skills in themand they understand consequences
(23:47):
, then maybe, when they're facedwith this, their mind will say,
oh yeah, that might be a reallybad idea, you know, and maybe
they won't do it.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I think that's a key role for parents, absolutely,
and a really good place.
As we're kind of rounding up afew minutes left in our time, so
maybe any last message youwould convey to parents right
now who maybe they have addictedloved ones.
What would your message be tothem as we close this out?
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Well, I think the key is realizing that pretty much
everybody knows somebody withthis issue, whether you
recognize it or not.
So you're dealing with it, it'sin your family, it's with your
friends, somebody you know isdealing with this issue and
until we get rid of this stigmaand people are willing to talk
(24:38):
about it more, it's tough.
We had a person come to ourmeeting recently and this
gentleman showed up.
We hadn't seen him before hesat down.
We got around to him sharingand he said listen us, because
he keeps lying to us, becausehe's not getting any help and we
(25:14):
can't have him around becausehe's just not getting any help.
And he says and she threw meout, he goes and I've been
driving around all day trying tofigure out what I'm doing.
She says she says I'm notwilling to do that.
And he says so I came herebecause I don't know what to do.
He goes my marriage, my family,my son and all of this.
(25:38):
And so he shared all of thisand as we talked to him and
encouraged him and tried to helphim understand why they would
react this way, why they'resaying this, why his wife is
like that and how important itis that they try and come at
this together, but that's notreally my point.
(25:58):
My point is that his wife is 82and she was 80 and their son is
in his 60s and they are stilldealing with this, and that's
the kind of thing.
We get people in there thathave adolescence.
We get people in there that arein their eighties and it's
(26:19):
still devastating their families, and so if someone has this
going on and you know somebody,please refer them so they can
find a meeting and they can getthat support and then, hopefully
, the education as well, so thatthey can make good, healthy
decisions.
We don't like to use the wordsright and wrong.
We like to use the wordshealthy and unhealthy.
(26:42):
And there's healthy ways torespond to your loved ones,
there's healthy ways to supportthem, there's healthy ways to
get that opportunity toinfluence them to head in the
right direction.
But there's also unhealthythings that you can do, and
sadly, you can end up in a placewhere you feel alone, you feel
(27:03):
there is no hope and that youhave no concept or clue about
how to get there, and so I willshare with you this that you
know we were at that point withour sons between the criminal
activity, the overdoses, wherewe didn't know they would ever
survive, to the fact that theywere homeless, the fact that we
didn't know where they were, thefact that we couldn't find them
(27:24):
for months at a time.
You know, I thought they werelost, I thought it was done, and
the reality is is that westarted to change how we
responded to them.
We were encouraging, we weretheir cheerleaders, but we were
not going to enable, we weregoing to do what we could to
(27:45):
help them to see and hopefullyfind you know that path and take
that journey, and you know what.
And take that journey and youknow what, one day, after a very
serious illness and after someserious criminal activity, you
know, our older son was thefirst one and he he essentially
was in a hospital bed when hemade a decision and says I can't
(28:06):
do this anymore.
And he made a personal decisionthat he was going to check
himself into a treatment program, which he did, which ended up
putting him into a program forover a year, during which time
he tracked down his littlebrother, was able to convince
him to go into a treatmentprogram.
He was really unwell too.
(28:27):
He was six foot three, weighed137 pounds when he went into
treatment and he eventuallystarted down that road, and
today I will tell you thatthey're celebrating around 11 or
12 years of sobriety.
They've been in recovery, theyvolunteer, they work in this
(28:48):
field to some extent.
The older one, that's what hedoes full-time.
The younger one does itsometimes and part time.
But here's the thing I now havea family that's back.
I have two beautifulgrandchildren, my younger son's
getting married in November, andI never thought they would even
survive, and so I know.
(29:09):
Not everybody's story ends thatway, but I can just tell you
that some do, lots of them do,and there is hope and there is a
way out, and sometimes you justneed that support and help to
get you from where you are towhere hopefully you won't be
Very powerful.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Kim, thank you for sharing your family story.
Thank you for the great workthat you're doing personally as
well as professionally at PAL.
So how can people connect withPAL?
Where can they find you all?
So?
Speaker 2 (29:38):
again, our website is palgrouporg and if you just go
on that website, there's lots ofresources.
We have a YouTube channel.
We have a newsletter you cansign up for.
Every month You'll getinformation.
We are connected with Sam andother organizations to provide
(30:00):
information, and PAN, whichyou're familiar with, the Parent
Action Network.
We've had them at our eventsand so we want to work together
to educate the community tohopefully, you know, provide,
you know the families that needour services, but also others
that are just looking forinformation and ways to support
(30:20):
and ways to get involved.
So if you go to our website,powergrouporg and you can always
email us at info atpowergrouporg- so thank you, cam
.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you very much for being on the show To our
listeners.
Thank you for listening.
Please leave us a five-starreview if you have the time and
write us a review is alwayswonderful and check out
palgrouporg.
Thank you, kim, for everything.
Thank you.
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