Global Insights on Drug Policy: Highlights from the Lisbon Addictions Conference

Discover the complexities of today's drug policy landscape with insights from around the globe. We promise an enlightening journey as Kevin Sabat and I unpack the highlights from the recent Lisbon Addictions Conference. We bring you the latest updates and debates on harm reduction versus legalization, spotlighting data-driven discussions from regions like Oregon and British Columbia. As we shift focus to the United States, uncover the stories behind various drug policy ballot measures, including marijuana legalization efforts in Florida and the Dakotas. The challenges New York faces in its legalization journey serve as a cautionary tale, and we even touch on an intriguing psychedelics measure in Massachusetts, hinting at the evolving dynamics in drug policy.

In a special segment, Kevin joins me to highlight the importance of staying informed through resources like newsletters from learnaboutsamorg and thedrugreportorg. We emphasize the value of evidence-based policies and encourage robust discussions among our listeners. Make sure to engage with us by subscribing to these newsletters for the latest updates and leave a review to help amplify the conversation. Tune in for a comprehensive understanding of the forces shaping the future of drug policy around the world.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes or no?
Do you believe nicotine is notaddictive?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
Yes, Congressman, cigarettesand nicotine clearly do not meet
the classic definitions ofaddiction.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
I don't believe that nicotine for our products are
addictive.
I believe nicotine is notaddictive.
I believe that nicotine.
Hi everybody, this is LukeNiferatos.
I'm your host of the DrugReport podcast.
Thank you for joining us foranother wonderful week.
Hope you're doing well.
Thanks to our co-sponsoringorganizations, SAM and FDPS, for
making this happen.
Check them out in the linksthere in our info about the

(00:32):
podcast.
Well, today we're just going todo a roundup of some of the
things that have been going onand I've actually got Kevin
Sabat joining us.
Once again, Kevin, thank youfor jumping on.
Thanks for having me.
Kevin, thank you for jumping on.
Thanks for having me.
And so, yeah, you know, Kevinand I just got back from the
Lisbon Addictions Conference inPortugal and you know we learned
a lot, had a lot of interestingmeetings and discussions.

(00:54):
So, Kevin, you know, maybe youcan give folks a rundown of kind
of what we learned while wewere in Portugal this week.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yeah, yeah, this was the Lisbon Addictions Conference
, which used to be held by agroup called EMCBDA.
They've changed their name tothe European Drug Agency.
They're the quasi-EU-connectedagency that deals with drugs
research policy advice to EUcountries, and it always has

(01:20):
very high-caliber speakers.
We saw our friends KeithHumphries and friends from RAND,
rosalie Kukula, bud Gilmer,vanda Felbad-Brown.
It was a really enrichingconference.
A lot about you know what'shappening internationally a lot
of discussion about the blowbackto extreme harm reduction
that's going on, but there'salso a lot of supporters of
legalization there as well.

(01:41):
So you know there was a.
It was a kind of you know a lotof different folks from all
across the really world on it,and we were able to also speak
with some EU officials aboutdrug policy in the US.
They're very curious aboutOregon and also marijuana.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, and I think it's interesting because
everyone wants the data, youknow, and there's just a lot of.
I think you know a lot ofpeople in drug policy, a lot of
policymakers including those whowere there have been getting a
lot of promises from extremeharm reduction advocates that if
they take these extremeapproaches it will solve

(02:18):
overdose issues, it will solveaddiction issues, and so they're
wanting to see the data inOregon and British Columbia, you
know, on this subject, becausethese are two places where this
has been tested and it's franklyfailed the extreme versions at
least.
And so, you know, we've beenable to kind of jump in as
Foundation for Drug PolicySolutions to meet some of these
needs and answer these questionsas well as provide, you know,
more materials and more data forthese folks as they make their

(02:38):
decisions.
So it was an interesting time.
Yeah, definitely, yep.
So now kind of panning over toAmerica, our side of the globe,
you know there are obviouslyseveral ballot measures going on
that are drug policy related,that are going to be up for a
vote here next week.
So obviously we have marijuana.

(02:59):
Yeah, go ahead, kevin.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And actually, interestingly,just before you hop into that,
you know the issue in New York.
They're having a wholediscussion about regulations in
New York State, aboutadvertising and labeling and
other kinds of regulations, andthe New York legalization
experiment has been a completedisaster in terms of regulatory

(03:21):
oversight, in terms of safety,in terms of the underground
market, which is thriving.
So that's kind of a you know.
We've been able to talk aboutthe warning, how these are
warnings for future states thatare looking to do this and you
were just going to talk aboutthe states that are looking to
do this, for example, Floridaand the Dakotas, and so it's

(03:41):
going to be interesting.
I really don't know what's goingto happen either way in any of
those states.
I think it's a very close callon all of them.
We're totally outspent.
Obviously, as usual, floridahas been one company that's
given over $100 million, so it'sbeen pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, anytime you see a company continuing to throw
in $5 million, $10 million, $12million into a ballot measure
with two weeks to go until theelection now one week you know
that the polling is probably notlooking great in Florida.
So that's what's happening, youknow.
We just saw the news today.
Trulieve just gave another 12million.
We're one week out from theelection, essentially eight days

(04:17):
.
So that tells us that you know,I think there might be blood in
the water on that ballotmeasure in Florida.
So we've obviously been workingvery hard there.
Our honorary chair andco-founder, patrick Kennedy, cut
several advertisements that arebeing circulated across the
state of Florida.
We've done also.
We've worked with Donna Shalalaand a number of others, and if

(04:38):
you haven't seen thoseadvertisements in that
collateral that we've beenpushing out everywhere in
Florida, make sure you sign upfor our emails at
learnaboutsamorg and you'll see.
You know kind of all ofeverything we've been doing on
that subject in Florida.
So, like Kevin said, I thinkit's really 50-50 everywhere.
So we have two other marijuanaballot measures recreational,

(04:58):
both of them North Dakota andSouth Dakota, and both of those
are in the margin of error.
We've been pushing, obviously,these advertisements in those
states as well, thanks to a lotof donors like those of you who
listen.
And then there's also anon-marijuana measure a lot of
donors like those of you wholisten.
And then there's also anon-marijuana measure.
There's a psychedelics ballotmeasure.
That is in Massachusetts, whichthat hasn't really gotten a lot

(05:18):
of coverage, but it's startingto get some notice now as
they're coming close to the vote.
That measure is very similar towhat passed in Colorado.
So, kevin, I don't know if youwant to touch a little bit on
psychedelics, kind of what we'reseeing in that space.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, I mean, look, the psychedelics kind of what
we're seeing in that space.
Yeah, I mean, look, thepsychedelics groups are
following the marijuana playbookby trying to medicalize it and
then legalize it.
Uh, you know, there might bemedicinal components, some
psychedelics in a very, thisvery, very specific trained
context where you have, you know, trained physicians and a whole
apparatus.
But what they're trying to doin Massachusetts has nothing to

(05:53):
do with that.
They want to use it way outsidethat context and they've, you
know, thrown a lot of moneytowards that and there is a note
committee that we've beenworking with.
I actually think it may becloser than people think there,
because I'm not sure if it'sready for full prime time yet.
But you know, massachusetts isthe home of Harvard, with

(06:15):
Timothy Leary that kind of beganthis whole, you know this whole
journey 50, 60 years ago, aswell as Rick Doblin who you know
has basically been pushed outof the kind of some of these
discussions, even though he'ssort of the modern godfather of
psychedelics.
But, um, you know there havebeen a lot of ethical issues.

(06:35):
Uh, folks should really read upon that.
There's been a lot of ethicalissues with these studies, a lot
of people that have been takenadvantage of.
Also, a lot of issues withplacebo.
People who think they're onpsychedelics often perform the
same way or get the sameoutcomes as those who do
actually are on psychedelics.
So that's been an issue.
So placebo is very strong and Ijust think we're so far away

(06:58):
from prime time.
But the industry is moving soquickly because they want to
make money.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, and I think that's what we're seeing.
So this measure looks a lotlike Colorado's in terms of it's
called kind of basicallymedical psychedelics.
There's qualifying conditionsand things like that, but it
essentially is wide open andpeople can grow it and all of
that, which really is not howmedicine typically works, and
these are obviously reallypowerful drugs, and so I think

(07:24):
there's a conversation thatneeds to be had and is starting
to be had.
You know and we've talked aboutthis before on the podcast
Lycos formerly known as MAPS youknow they were their product
for psychedelic medicine wasrejected by the FDA because of
what you just alluded to, kevinthe fact that the data was
doctored, there was allegationsof assault, I mean every kind of

(07:44):
problem you can imagine.
You name it.
It was there, and I think thisis something we're seeing in
other circumstances related topsychedelic studies as well.
So that obviously is great thatthey discovered that.
You know, with the FDA, withscience, it's not great, though,
for investors and people whoare trying to make money,
companies who just want to rushforward, and I think that's what
I'm seeing.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Well, we should note that the journal
Psychopharmacology, which is theforemost journal in this's,
retracted three papers aboutthis kind of psychotherapy.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, and that's I think again, that's critical.
We need to look at how isinfluence from the media, from
investors, influence from otherpeople with an interest
pressuring the results that arebeing found.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, and the authors of those studies were all
affiliated with this group, mapsand Lycos with Rick Doppler.
So there's a lot of problematicthings going on.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, so what we've seen in the polling in
Massachusetts is that there's ahefty number of undecideds, very
similar to Colorado.
It was about 32 percentundecided in Colorado.
It's right around that, I think.
It's like 35 percent undecidedin Massachusetts on this
psychedelics measure.
So we will definitely bewatching this.
It's definitely around that, Ithink.
It's like 35% undecided inMassachusetts on this
psychedelics measure.
So we will definitely bewatching this.
It's definitely a coin toss.
It'll be very interesting tosee.
But Sam Action our C4, washappy to support that effort,

(09:01):
and so we'll be keeping a closeeye on that come election day,
obviously in addition toeverything else, all the other
races and everything else, andso I'm certain that after the
election, we will have someanalysis.
We'll have some discussion ofthe implications for drug policy
and all those kinds of thingsafter the election.
So definitely stay tuned forthe podcast and for our upcoming
newsletters, which will getinto all of that.

(09:24):
So, that being said, kevin, Idon't know if you have any other
thoughts you want to sharebefore we wrap the podcast.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Okay, oh, that's good , thank you.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, thank you for joining us, kevin, and thank you
to all of our listeners.
Please subscribe.
Go to learnaboutsamorg,thedrugreportorg and, obviously,
gooddrugpolicyorg for FDPS.
Subscribe for our newsletters.
You'll get two of them eachweek with all of the latest
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That goes a long way for thepodcast.

(10:00):
So please do that and have awonderful rest of your week.