January 28, 2025 • 14 mins
High THC cannabis products are under intense scrutiny, and with good reason. Kevin Sabet, CEO of SAM Smart Approaches to Marijuana, joins us to dissect the cannabis industry's parallels with big tobacco, especially concerning unproven health claims and the relentless drive for profit. We examine a noteworthy New York Times article and question whether New York's $1 billion in cannabis sales is worth the potential cost to public health. Our discussion focuses on prioritizing health over profit, learning from the tobacco industry's past mistakes, and the crucial role of effective regulation in safeguarding public health.
Our global audience is at the heart of what we do, and your support is invaluable. We are grateful to Kevin for his insights and extend our appreciation to listeners across dozens of countries and countless cities. We're excited to continue bringing you the most pressing news and updates, and we encourage you to share our podcast with others who care about the future of drug policy and public health. If our conversations resonate with you, please leave us a five-star review and share your thoughts as we strive to spark change and meaningful dialogue.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes or no?
Do you believe nicotine is notaddictive?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
Yes, Congressman, cigarettesand nicotine clearly do not meet
the classic definitions ofaddiction.
I don't believe that nicotinefor our products are addictive.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
I believe that nicotine.
Hi everyone, this is LukeNeferratis.
I'm your host of the DrugReport podcast brought to you by
SAM Smart Approaches toMarijuana and FDPS, the
Foundation for Drug PolicySolutions, and today I'm joined
by our CEO and my friend, kevinSabet.
Thanks for joining us, kevin.
Thanks for having me.
Well, we've got kind of a slewof fun things to talk about
(00:36):
today, and it's good to have youback in the new year.
By the way, it feels like it'sjust last year you were on the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I know last year.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So what do you want to kick us off with?
I think we have some news wewant to share.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, well, a couple things, I mean over the weekend.
If those that saw the frontpage of the New York Times on
the Sunday New York Times abovethe fold, so this would be like,
basically, one of the mostprominent, if not the most
prominent, article to be seen.
The headline was marijuanapushed to limit in a race for
(01:13):
profits and the sub headline washigh THC, low prices and
curative claims still shy onproof.
Um, this was like waking up inthe twilight zone.
I mean to see that wasincredible.
We have been talking about thisfor over 10 years.
And incredible, we have beentalking about this for over 10
years and you know the the, youknow the iron lady and others,
uh, would, uh, mainstream mediawhere it was not covering this
(01:33):
and um, and so you know,basically, it's, it's been, it's
incredible to see that they'reactually doing that.
Finally, and um, you know, it'sjust, it's, it's really, it's
really amazing to see that.
And so, saying the same thingswe've been saying.
It talks about it's Stizzy,which is the best selling brand
in America and how, of course,by the way, they're like
(01:56):
engulfed in so much, so manylawsuits right now too.
I tweeted about that yesterday,but just to see that I think
was pretty amazing to see thatthey're covering that.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I mean I think was pretty amazing to see that
they're covering that.
Yeah, I mean, I think especially, you know, obviously, the New
York Times.
You know early on they weresupportive of legalization and
it wasn't like we were gettingthese stories in the first five
years as states were rollingthem out.
But I think now that we're pasta decade of these experiments,
if you will, in different states, the data are so clear that
it's going so poorly and thatthe harms are very real and that
big tobacco is very muchinvested and this is starting to
(02:31):
look exactly like thatexperiment and so or not
experiment, excuse me, thatfailure of what we had with
tobacco policy, and we're stillcleaning that mess up.
And I just think it's soobvious now that there's nothing
they can do but run thesestories.
And it's interesting, thepeople that they have that they
quote in the reporting onmarijuana now in New York Times.
(02:53):
I mean you have doctors.
I saw Dr Pachulia on there, Isaw a number of other doctors
that we're all well aware of,other folks in our field who are
really experts, who have been,you know, really raising the
alarm about this for a long time, finally getting into the pages
of the New York Times to talkabout it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
No, it's been great and it was lucky for us to have
been working with some of thesefolks behind the scenes for many
years and just to see thesearticles now come out I should
have said the gray lady by theway, Iron Lady's Margaret
Thatcher.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I was going to say I don't remember Margaret Thatcher
saying anything about that, youknow things.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't.
She did say some things, butthat wouldn't have been as
extraordinary.
No, the gray lady, the graylady we call the New York Times,
but yeah, so pretty amazing andit's just really interesting.
And the other, of course, bitof big news is that I don't know
if you want to tee it offwhat's happening in the Capitol
today.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, off what's happening in the Capitol today,
yeah.
So what's happening is I meanto lay the setting for you.
This morning, which is Tuesdaymorning, the top cannabis
regulator for the New YorkOffice of Cannabis Management,
their OCM, hosted a pressconference in Albany, at the
Capitol building, celebrating $1billion of sales for the
(04:05):
marijuana industry.
This is the person that is incharge of regulating this
industry, holding themaccountable, protecting the
public health.
This is the person that'sworking on that, that's
responsible for it, and they arehosting a.
They hosted a press conferenceto celebrate the money that this
industry is making yeah, which,I think.
(04:26):
If we had the FDA commissionercelebrating the money that
tobacco industry made last year,there would be a lot of people
very unhappy about that, andit's just astonishing to see
this person doing that.
So we were so sickened by it.
We decided this is time to kickoff a campaign in the state of
New York, and so we set up a youknow, a mobile billboard to
(04:50):
drive around the Capitol.
Kevin, I don't know if you wantto share with folks what that
billboard is sharing.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, no, the mobile billboard essentially has a
couple messages.
The first message is same game,new name, with a juxtaposition
of an old Marlboro ad and bigtobacco with a big marijuana.
A picture of a cigarette boxthat says marijuana on it.
That's meant to mimic Marlboro.
(05:16):
And then we're saying to NewYork put our kids before drugs.
The other picture is addiction,for profit is never something
to celebrate.
And then, cause that is whatthey're celebrating and it's
really, really upsetting.
So, and we also actually showsome of these New York times
headlines, cause we've had morethan just the one from Sunday,
We've had several others.
Uh, so this is a this is areally important issue and I'm
(05:38):
just so happy that we're atleast trying to raise, and we
are raising, awareness.
Today we have, uh, ChrissyGrandwagon, who's in our action
network, who's there doinginterviews, because this is just
ridiculous to be covering, youknow, to be celebrating
addiction.
We would never do that, likeyou said, for tobacco or alcohol
, and why are we doing it formarijuana?
It's very sad.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and I think you know the public has come to
expect that.
You know there's got to besomeone that is protecting their
interests, the interests ofpublic health and safety.
It can't just all be about thealmighty dollar.
And I think what is striking tome is, you know it's not even
that they're celebrating theamount of tax revenue that
they've made.
You know that would.
There would be an argument tosay that that is a sane thing
(06:21):
they could do.
But it's not the tax revenue,it's that they are celebrating
the financial success of thisindustry which, frankly, is not
in their job description.
Their job description is theOffice of Cannabis Management is
to oversee the regulations andthe rules and make sure that
people are protected.
I mean, that was the idea goinginto this.
I'll never forget talking tothe Senate the chair of the
(06:43):
Senate Health Committee there inAlbany several years back, who
said that the whole point ofthis was to do a health first
approach, an equity firstapproach.
Well, first of all, they failedat equity in New York and they
failed at keeping the illicitmarket out of this the
overwhelming majority of themarket in New York is illicit
and they failed at protectingthe health of the public.
(07:03):
So we actually launched acompanion website page.
That's on our website right now.
You can check it out.
I believe it's learnaboutsamorgslash, new York State, I think
with dashes in between and eachof the words, and you can check
that out as well.
It's also, I think, on ourslide or on the front of our
website and basically what thatpage details are the early data.
(07:25):
So sales just started in NewYork in 2022.
So the early data that has comeout there's not much, but
there's a little bit of thepublic health harms, of what
this policy is at and, frankly,the harms have not been.
It's not a good showing, atleast here at the early outset.
Kevin, I don't know if you wantto get into that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No, it's not.
We're seeing increases inpoisonings from the poison
centers.
We're seeing increases inemergency room admissions as
well, and actually this has allbeen covered by local media, so
these are verifiable sources.
We're seeing no real equity.
(08:06):
This idea of social equity isnot happening at all.
No real equity, this idea ofsocial equity, is not happening
at all.
We're seeing marijuana-relatedcalls involving little children
increasing fourfold.
According to Upstate PoisonControl, the New York City
School Department isdisciplinary data up 10% since
2019.
So I mean on and on.
By the way, the prevalence ofmarijuana just generally, has
(08:27):
almost doubled in a seven-yearperiod, which is really
remarkable.
And you know heavier use that'sreally concentrated, especially
among heavier use.
And then we're seeing lawenforcement talk about an uptick
in the people driving under theinfluence of marijuana, which,
by the way, the illicit markethas not gone away.
I mean there's still, as of afew months ago, nearly 3,000
(08:49):
unlicensed stores across NewYork that have opened, and so
you know the underground market,the black market, is thriving.
There's very little equityhappening at all, in fact.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
One thing I worry about yeah, to host a press
conference celebrating the moneymade by this industry.
With that as the backdrop, itjust makes you wonder, wonder.
Who is the audience for theseregular?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
audiences, their audience.
It's the marijuana industrythat are paying these
politicians.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I mean there's more, and the marijuana industry is
the industry they're supposed tobe in charge of regulating, and
they are their audience.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's pretty amazing.
Yeah, they're just.
They think their mandate is.
Regulate means just make themsucceed by any means.
Like this is like like they'reselling, you know, balls of yarn
or T-shirts.
I mean that's really.
And they're not realizing thisis not, this is, this is hard,
this is harmful stuff.
So you have to, if you're goingto do it, which you shouldn't
do you have to really take carein doing it.
(09:43):
You don't, you don't want to bepushing for use, and that's
what's happening, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, I'll never forget.
Here in Colorado, which many ofyou know is where I am from, our
marijuana czar is a marijuanaindustry tycoon and he had to
sell all of his pot shops inorder to take the role all of
his pot shops in order to takethe role.
And I'll never forget one of theheadlines from a newspaper here
(10:12):
in Colorado that said it's likethe Marlboro man is being put
in charge of the FDA.
You know people would havequestions about that.
People also have questions whenit's somebody from the board or
a former CEO of a mega pharmacompany that is also put in
charge of the FDA.
Because I think we all know,just implicitly, that there is
something wrong with a personwho their interests either you
(10:36):
know immediately before or evenduring their term in public
service being in charge ofregulating an industry.
That matters, and if they havea conflict of interest, that
matters because they're notgoing to put the people first.
And so I think you know,particularly in this era where I
think there's a lot of peoplethat want accountability, they
want to make sure that there istruth being told when it comes
(10:56):
to public health, we have toensure that the people who are
in charge are doing their jobsand that their audience is the
people and that it is not themajor industries that they come
from.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yep, no, completely.
So we're going to keep keepthem accountable, we're going to
keep pushing this and we're notgoing to.
We're not going to back down.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's right, kevin.
You know another thing that wasinteresting in the news.
You know we just saw thatHarvard has a new $16 million
study department that is lookingat psychedelics.
And you look down towards thebottom of Harvard's press
release on this department bythe way, the front page of the
website.
You all should check it out.
It's unbelievable.
They're looking at religioususes of psychedelics.
(11:39):
It's every kind of way of usingpsychedelics.
It's like, well, I thought youwere all supposed to be studying
it, not promoting differentuses, but that's what they're
doing.
You look at the bottom of thepress release, kevin, and it's
from this foundation I've neverheard of, called the Gracias
Foundation, and the head of thefoundation is a member of the
family and he runs a privateequity firm that is investing in
(12:03):
these spaces.
So, industry-funded research,which is something we've talked
about before, research, which issomething we've talked about
before.
You know, again, the audiencehas to be the people, the folks
whose interests are served bythese efforts, need to be.
The interests need to be publichealth and safety, not, you
know, private equity firms andindustry P&L sheets.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, no, it's pretty amazing.
I mean, they're buyingthemselves into universities.
Universities, you know, theyalways want money, so anybody
that kind of comes with an opencheckbook pretty much
unfortunately gets often whatthey want.
And so, whether it's an endowedchair of some sort or an
(12:46):
institute of some sort and youknow, obviously we want to
increase the things thefoundation could actually do is
write a letter to this instituteand copy the Harvard
chancellors and board oftrustees I should say overseers
and ask what is being done toensure that research is done in
a non-biased way, that there is,you know, ethical
(13:09):
considerations of subjects, thatstudents are protected.
I mean, I think these are likelegitimate questions we need to
actually ask.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I think we will .
I mean, especially when youhave a quote like this from the
Gracious Foundation, harvard isthe ideal place to explore the
topic of psychedelics for newangles and to craft a framework
for their legal, safe andappropriate impact on society.
So, yeah, it doesn't give mehope that there isn't a mission
behind the dollars.
No, it doesn't, it doesn't atall.
(13:37):
So, anywho, that is kind ofyour summary of some of the news
and other things that we've gotgoing on today.
Kevin, thank you as always forjoining us and to all of our
listeners, we appreciate youlistening and sharing.
We have all kinds of amazingpeople that listen to this
podcast, actually from dozens ofcountries around the world,
from all the cities and townsacross the country, it seems.
(13:58):
So thank you for your support.
Please leave us a review if youcould.
Five stars would be great and areview if you have time.
Always appreciate that.
Have a wonderful rest of yourweek.
Yes or no?
Do you believe nicotine is notaddictive?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
Yes, Congressman, cigarettesand nicotine clearly do not meet
the classic definitions ofaddiction.
I don't believe that nicotinefor our products are addictive.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
I believe that nicotine.
Hi everyone, this is LukeNeferratis.
I'm your host of the DrugReport podcast brought to you by
SAM Smart Approaches toMarijuana and FDPS, the
Foundation for Drug PolicySolutions, and today I'm joined
by our CEO and my friend, kevinSabet.
Thanks for joining us, kevin.
Thanks for having me.
Well, we've got kind of a slewof fun things to talk about
(00:36):
today, and it's good to have youback in the new year.
By the way, it feels like it'sjust last year you were on the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I know last year.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So what do you want to kick us off with?
I think we have some news wewant to share.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, well, a couple things, I mean over the weekend.
If those that saw the frontpage of the New York Times on
the Sunday New York Times abovethe fold, so this would be like,
basically, one of the mostprominent, if not the most
prominent, article to be seen.
The headline was marijuanapushed to limit in a race for
(01:13):
profits and the sub headline washigh THC, low prices and
curative claims still shy onproof.
Um, this was like waking up inthe twilight zone.
I mean to see that wasincredible.
We have been talking about thisfor over 10 years.
And incredible, we have beentalking about this for over 10
years and you know the the, youknow the iron lady and others,
uh, would, uh, mainstream mediawhere it was not covering this
(01:33):
and um, and so you know,basically, it's, it's been, it's
incredible to see that they'reactually doing that.
Finally, and um, you know, it'sjust, it's, it's really, it's
really amazing to see that.
And so, saying the same thingswe've been saying.
It talks about it's Stizzy,which is the best selling brand
in America and how, of course,by the way, they're like
(01:56):
engulfed in so much, so manylawsuits right now too.
I tweeted about that yesterday,but just to see that I think
was pretty amazing to see thatthey're covering that.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I mean I think was pretty amazing to see that
they're covering that.
Yeah, I mean, I think especially, you know, obviously, the New
York Times.
You know early on they weresupportive of legalization and
it wasn't like we were gettingthese stories in the first five
years as states were rollingthem out.
But I think now that we're pasta decade of these experiments,
if you will, in different states, the data are so clear that
it's going so poorly and thatthe harms are very real and that
big tobacco is very muchinvested and this is starting to
(02:31):
look exactly like thatexperiment and so or not
experiment, excuse me, thatfailure of what we had with
tobacco policy, and we're stillcleaning that mess up.
And I just think it's soobvious now that there's nothing
they can do but run thesestories.
And it's interesting, thepeople that they have that they
quote in the reporting onmarijuana now in New York Times.
(02:53):
I mean you have doctors.
I saw Dr Pachulia on there, Isaw a number of other doctors
that we're all well aware of,other folks in our field who are
really experts, who have been,you know, really raising the
alarm about this for a long time, finally getting into the pages
of the New York Times to talkabout it.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
No, it's been great and it was lucky for us to have
been working with some of thesefolks behind the scenes for many
years and just to see thesearticles now come out I should
have said the gray lady by theway, Iron Lady's Margaret
Thatcher.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I was going to say I don't remember Margaret Thatcher
saying anything about that, youknow things.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I don't.
She did say some things, butthat wouldn't have been as
extraordinary.
No, the gray lady, the graylady we call the New York Times,
but yeah, so pretty amazing andit's just really interesting.
And the other, of course, bitof big news is that I don't know
if you want to tee it offwhat's happening in the Capitol
today.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, off what's happening in the Capitol today,
yeah.
So what's happening is I meanto lay the setting for you.
This morning, which is Tuesdaymorning, the top cannabis
regulator for the New YorkOffice of Cannabis Management,
their OCM, hosted a pressconference in Albany, at the
Capitol building, celebrating $1billion of sales for the
(04:05):
marijuana industry.
This is the person that is incharge of regulating this
industry, holding themaccountable, protecting the
public health.
This is the person that'sworking on that, that's
responsible for it, and they arehosting a.
They hosted a press conferenceto celebrate the money that this
industry is making yeah, which,I think.
(04:26):
If we had the FDA commissionercelebrating the money that
tobacco industry made last year,there would be a lot of people
very unhappy about that, andit's just astonishing to see
this person doing that.
So we were so sickened by it.
We decided this is time to kickoff a campaign in the state of
New York, and so we set up a youknow, a mobile billboard to
(04:50):
drive around the Capitol.
Kevin, I don't know if you wantto share with folks what that
billboard is sharing.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, no, the mobile billboard essentially has a
couple messages.
The first message is same game,new name, with a juxtaposition
of an old Marlboro ad and bigtobacco with a big marijuana.
A picture of a cigarette boxthat says marijuana on it.
That's meant to mimic Marlboro.
(05:16):
And then we're saying to NewYork put our kids before drugs.
The other picture is addiction,for profit is never something
to celebrate.
And then, cause that is whatthey're celebrating and it's
really, really upsetting.
So, and we also actually showsome of these New York times
headlines, cause we've had morethan just the one from Sunday,
We've had several others.
Uh, so this is a this is areally important issue and I'm
(05:38):
just so happy that we're atleast trying to raise, and we
are raising, awareness.
Today we have, uh, ChrissyGrandwagon, who's in our action
network, who's there doinginterviews, because this is just
ridiculous to be covering, youknow, to be celebrating
addiction.
We would never do that, likeyou said, for tobacco or alcohol
, and why are we doing it formarijuana?
It's very sad.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and I think you know the public has come to
expect that.
You know there's got to besomeone that is protecting their
interests, the interests ofpublic health and safety.
It can't just all be about thealmighty dollar.
And I think what is striking tome is, you know it's not even
that they're celebrating theamount of tax revenue that
they've made.
You know that would.
There would be an argument tosay that that is a sane thing
(06:21):
they could do.
But it's not the tax revenue,it's that they are celebrating
the financial success of thisindustry which, frankly, is not
in their job description.
Their job description is theOffice of Cannabis Management is
to oversee the regulations andthe rules and make sure that
people are protected.
I mean, that was the idea goinginto this.
I'll never forget talking tothe Senate the chair of the
(06:43):
Senate Health Committee there inAlbany several years back, who
said that the whole point ofthis was to do a health first
approach, an equity firstapproach.
Well, first of all, they failedat equity in New York and they
failed at keeping the illicitmarket out of this the
overwhelming majority of themarket in New York is illicit
and they failed at protectingthe health of the public.
(07:03):
So we actually launched acompanion website page.
That's on our website right now.
You can check it out.
I believe it's learnaboutsamorgslash, new York State, I think
with dashes in between and eachof the words, and you can check
that out as well.
It's also, I think, on ourslide or on the front of our
website and basically what thatpage details are the early data.
(07:25):
So sales just started in NewYork in 2022.
So the early data that has comeout there's not much, but
there's a little bit of thepublic health harms, of what
this policy is at and, frankly,the harms have not been.
It's not a good showing, atleast here at the early outset.
Kevin, I don't know if you wantto get into that.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No, it's not.
We're seeing increases inpoisonings from the poison
centers.
We're seeing increases inemergency room admissions as
well, and actually this has allbeen covered by local media, so
these are verifiable sources.
We're seeing no real equity.
(08:06):
This idea of social equity isnot happening at all.
No real equity, this idea ofsocial equity, is not happening
at all.
We're seeing marijuana-relatedcalls involving little children
increasing fourfold.
According to Upstate PoisonControl, the New York City
School Department isdisciplinary data up 10% since
2019.
So I mean on and on.
By the way, the prevalence ofmarijuana just generally, has
(08:27):
almost doubled in a seven-yearperiod, which is really
remarkable.
And you know heavier use that'sreally concentrated, especially
among heavier use.
And then we're seeing lawenforcement talk about an uptick
in the people driving under theinfluence of marijuana, which,
by the way, the illicit markethas not gone away.
I mean there's still, as of afew months ago, nearly 3,000
(08:49):
unlicensed stores across NewYork that have opened, and so
you know the underground market,the black market, is thriving.
There's very little equityhappening at all, in fact.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
One thing I worry about yeah, to host a press
conference celebrating the moneymade by this industry.
With that as the backdrop, itjust makes you wonder, wonder.
Who is the audience for theseregular?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
audiences, their audience.
It's the marijuana industrythat are paying these
politicians.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
I mean there's more, and the marijuana industry is
the industry they're supposed tobe in charge of regulating, and
they are their audience.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
It's pretty amazing.
Yeah, they're just.
They think their mandate is.
Regulate means just make themsucceed by any means.
Like this is like like they'reselling, you know, balls of yarn
or T-shirts.
I mean that's really.
And they're not realizing thisis not, this is, this is hard,
this is harmful stuff.
So you have to, if you're goingto do it, which you shouldn't
do you have to really take carein doing it.
(09:43):
You don't, you don't want to bepushing for use, and that's
what's happening, unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yeah, I'll never forget.
Here in Colorado, which many ofyou know is where I am from, our
marijuana czar is a marijuanaindustry tycoon and he had to
sell all of his pot shops inorder to take the role all of
his pot shops in order to takethe role.
And I'll never forget one of theheadlines from a newspaper here
(10:12):
in Colorado that said it's likethe Marlboro man is being put
in charge of the FDA.
You know people would havequestions about that.
People also have questions whenit's somebody from the board or
a former CEO of a mega pharmacompany that is also put in
charge of the FDA.
Because I think we all know,just implicitly, that there is
something wrong with a personwho their interests either you
(10:36):
know immediately before or evenduring their term in public
service being in charge ofregulating an industry.
That matters, and if they havea conflict of interest, that
matters because they're notgoing to put the people first.
And so I think you know,particularly in this era where I
think there's a lot of peoplethat want accountability, they
want to make sure that there istruth being told when it comes
(10:56):
to public health, we have toensure that the people who are
in charge are doing their jobsand that their audience is the
people and that it is not themajor industries that they come
from.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yep, no, completely.
So we're going to keep keepthem accountable, we're going to
keep pushing this and we're notgoing to.
We're not going to back down.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's right, kevin.
You know another thing that wasinteresting in the news.
You know we just saw thatHarvard has a new $16 million
study department that is lookingat psychedelics.
And you look down towards thebottom of Harvard's press
release on this department bythe way, the front page of the
website.
You all should check it out.
It's unbelievable.
They're looking at religioususes of psychedelics.
(11:39):
It's every kind of way of usingpsychedelics.
It's like, well, I thought youwere all supposed to be studying
it, not promoting differentuses, but that's what they're
doing.
You look at the bottom of thepress release, kevin, and it's
from this foundation I've neverheard of, called the Gracias
Foundation, and the head of thefoundation is a member of the
family and he runs a privateequity firm that is investing in
(12:03):
these spaces.
So, industry-funded research,which is something we've talked
about before, research, which issomething we've talked about
before.
You know, again, the audiencehas to be the people, the folks
whose interests are served bythese efforts, need to be.
The interests need to be publichealth and safety, not, you
know, private equity firms andindustry P&L sheets.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, no, it's pretty amazing.
I mean, they're buyingthemselves into universities.
Universities, you know, theyalways want money, so anybody
that kind of comes with an opencheckbook pretty much
unfortunately gets often whatthey want.
And so, whether it's an endowedchair of some sort or an
(12:46):
institute of some sort and youknow, obviously we want to
increase the things thefoundation could actually do is
write a letter to this instituteand copy the Harvard
chancellors and board oftrustees I should say overseers
and ask what is being done toensure that research is done in
a non-biased way, that there is,you know, ethical
(13:09):
considerations of subjects, thatstudents are protected.
I mean, I think these are likelegitimate questions we need to
actually ask.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Yeah, I think we will .
I mean, especially when youhave a quote like this from the
Gracious Foundation, harvard isthe ideal place to explore the
topic of psychedelics for newangles and to craft a framework
for their legal, safe andappropriate impact on society.
So, yeah, it doesn't give mehope that there isn't a mission
behind the dollars.
No, it doesn't, it doesn't atall.
(13:37):
So, anywho, that is kind ofyour summary of some of the news
and other things that we've gotgoing on today.
Kevin, thank you as always forjoining us and to all of our
listeners, we appreciate youlistening and sharing.
We have all kinds of amazingpeople that listen to this
podcast, actually from dozens ofcountries around the world,
from all the cities and townsacross the country, it seems.
(13:58):
So thank you for your support.
Please leave us a review if youcould.
Five stars would be great and areview if you have time.
Always appreciate that.
Have a wonderful rest of yourweek.
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