From Chaos to Calmness in the Pursuit of Personal Growth

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the driftwood podcast.
This is Daniel the wizard.
Back at it again, and today wegot Benjamin Snavely.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Hey everybody, I'm doing well.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Pretty good, you're actually gonna hear me call him
Ben a lot because that's how Ireference him.
But right before we came on Iactually asked him how do you
want me to introduce yourself,not introduce yourself, how do
you want me to introduce you?
And he's like and he said,benjamin Snavely.
I was like he was wait, are wenot doing last names?
I was like, yeah, we can dolast names.
I mean, I call myself thewizard and they haven't gone to
Bible study and they always,when they get in, like dude, ron

(00:33):
and me and stuff like that, arelike we know that you're don't
think you're a wizard.
So it's just really funnyanyways.
So how you doing Ben?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm doing, well, I'm doing well, oh, no problem, man.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
We've been trying to actually arrange this for a
while.
It's been a long time, yeah.
So I mean the last time I waslike almost three years, three
years since I recorded with you.
Yeah, because it was me andDavid and you and Tony.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yep.
So it was a different locationand different circumstances.
Many different things from thento now, oh same for me.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
I've had another kid Congratulations.
Yeah, she's three now sheturned three in November.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Okay, she'll basically.
The very next day is when ithappened.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Pretty much.
So yeah, no, so we're bothsingle men now.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yes, and we weren't three years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
No absolutely not.
I was in the thralls of arelationship that is recently
subsided, which I don't know howthat's gonna turn out, but
it'll turn out.
However it turns out, you'regonna have to probably get
closer to the mic.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
I shall here.
I am Close as I can be, yeah,so if you get uncomfortable, we
need to take a break.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
We can also do that too, not uncomfortable, I'm just
.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I'm trying to listen, to hear.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
And if I need to adjust anything as far as sound
or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Just let me know we're good, but anyway so yeah,
our life.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Life has been substantially different.
The, the, the route of thepodcast has been completely
different too, because obviouslyDavid's not here anymore and
all these things, and so, man,it's just been.
It's been a while.
I'm actually surprised that I'mstill doing the podcast, from,
being real honest with you, youknow how easy it would have been
to just stop.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yes, I mean that's with anything it's easier to
stop, but most things in my life.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
I've quit, like it gets too hard, or it gets too
overwhelming, or it gets towhatever adjective.
Adjective is the right thing,right, anyways?
A descriptor.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Any way I would describe it, which are
adjectives?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, okay, so any adjective that I could come up
with.
Yeah, that would be my excusefor quitting Right.
And so there's been a lot ofchange in me because of, like,
maybe I haven't been disciplined, maybe I haven't been
consistent, but I haven't quit,and I think that there's
something to that.
It's meant enough for me tostill fight and to keep going

(02:53):
through it, to keep trying evenafter all, my stuff got stolen
even after David.
David stopped being with melike it obviously became harder,
but yeah, well, that's thething you.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
You don't quit and you decide what you don't quit
with and some things you maywant to quit, like smoking or
drinking or lying to yourself orwhatever.
I'm gonna move the mic a littlebit.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, yes maybe that is better.
So, yeah, you talking aboutthat, you're on a, you're on a
trip of sobriety right now.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
I just started it.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, so you said what?
Two weeks in?

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yes, yes, my birthday was January 10th.
It's the 26th right now, Ithink.
Yes, the 26th, okay.
So on the ninth, I purposelygot drunk and I knew exactly
what I was doing.
I enjoyed myself and then, onthe very next day, I decided to
just go healthy.

(03:49):
I walked, I went to bed at like9 30, you know I meditated and
I was just like I'm just gonnado this because I've had so many
years of drinking and doingdrugs and just like living you
know a crazy extravagant life,and I'm just like I'm ready to

(04:09):
do the opposite.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
You finally want to grow up.
Exactly, it's kind of what itseems like Own it.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
you know and understand what it means to just
like sit in reality, becausemost of the time we're trying to
escape it.
We're looking at our phoneswhere you know, even having
conversations like we'reconstantly looking for some type
of pinging to basicallydistract us from ourselves.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
We'll get that little dopamine hit, right, yeah.
And so I have on my whiteboardwritten at the house it says
peace over pleasure and that'skind of been my motto for the
year, like I started the yearand I'm because so much of my
life has been pleasure seek,right so, the satisfaction of
these things that would bedeemed pleasurable, like
drinking or doing drugs orthey're doing anything like that

(04:57):
, something that would give thatlike that.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I guess the dopamine hit Just sitting and watching TV
.
Even that yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
I've cut out.
So I mean I don't even reallywatch TV anymore.
I couldn't even tell you thelast episode of anything other
than I watched, the Chosen.
But that's only because I choseto, and that was actually kind
of hard to do because I feltlike I was wronging myself by
watching TV but also watchingstuff about God.
I was just like that's allright.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
But also this idea that it's wrong to be
laxadaisical, to be relaxed to,to go into a comfort state, and
I think that's a lie ofcapitalism.
This idea that we shouldn't beidle, and if you are like idle,
then you're lazy.
How?
Let's just get out of society.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I'm gonna raise my hand because I've been dealing
with that for a long time.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
There's no purpose to life and it's just what you
make it.
And here we are in this.
You know, dog eat dog kind ofsociety where you know you have
to have not just a job, you haveto have a side hustle, and you
always have to be doingsomething, and so it's just yeah
, sitting is nice, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I think that that's kind of the state that I'm in
too is because of all thechanges that have happened in my
life, with me and Cheyennesplitting and stuff like that,
I've actually had to.
I don't even.
I don't have a job either,right, so I've had to sit in
silence.
Kids are at school all day andI've had to find ways to be okay
and not rely on the dopaminehit and so, if I'm being honest,

(06:31):
it was very hard at firstbecause I was sad, bro.
I was so sad.
I was sad I didn't have a job.
I was well at first.
Actually, I was focusing oncoaching, so I was really
motivated to that and you stillare right.
Oh yeah, of course, but I'm notdealing with the emotions.
Still, it's like this is thefunny thing once you're
processing and grieving.
Yeah, once you decide to startintentionally trying to help

(06:54):
others.
Like once, once you pursue thatlife kind of throws you a curve
ball and says oh you're, youthink you're about it, let's see
.
Let's see if you really arekind of like this podcast stuff.
It's like, so I had to.
I've had to recalibrate acouple times and doing it
because I do know so, like ifyou said something about purpose
or life, the meaning of life orwhatever, a lot of the meaning

(07:18):
of life, I believe, is justperception.
I actually think that there'sno actual meaning to life.
I agree, other than the waysthat we define things and the
way that I see the world is thatmy purpose is to help people
come to peace, help people heal,and it's like I've been given

(07:39):
skills and gifts throughout,like if I think about the things
that have always shown up forme, if I think about, like,
where am I normally?
What do I do regularly?
What is it that I find myselfdoing when nothing matters?
That's where my purpose was,and so the thing that I've even
in school and all this stuffI've probably said this on the

(07:59):
podcast a couple times.
It was I've always talked topeople.
I've always helped them throughtheir problems, but see, when I
was a teenager, that helped meavoid my problems right, so I
would talk to them about theirsand I'm like oh.
Daniels, doesn't matter.
I got a really bad habit ofpeople pleasing, so, yeah,
that's the the way that I seepurpose, because it is defined

(08:22):
by the way that we perceive thelife that we're living, and I
think a lot of people havedifficulty finding purpose well,
I think a lot of people justsimply go down the pipeline of
the education system because onethat's like free daycare to
work.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
The adults are so busy working.
What other choice do we have?
So you go through this systemthat is tailored to everybody.
Therefore it's for nobody andwell, I mean corporate owners,
you know.
I mean it's for them, just sowe can be like, yes, sir, no,
ma'am, whatever, but it doesn't.

(09:02):
Once you get through that andyou do everything and you get
the house, and you get the job,and you get the diploma, and you
get the kids, and you get theyou know the 401k and you get
all of these things, you'restill empty and you're still
searching and you're like, well,okay, that did not fulfill me,
that did not satisfy me, whatelse is there?
so then you go and you do allthe I don't know.

(09:22):
Let's say, you get the divorceand you get midlife crisis, you
do the sex and you do the drugsand you do the partying and you
do the traveling and you do the,you know, searching for the
hobbies, and those are betterand those are more fulfilling,
but it's still a distraction towhat you have been not putting

(09:42):
effort towards, which isunderstanding yourself and who
you are and what that is allabout, and sitting in silence
and being okay with not doinganything, because that's when
the whole world just surrendersto you.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Uh-huh, sitting in silence, it's not even see, and
I think that there's amisconception about not doing
anything either.
It's like that doesn't meansitting on the couch playing on
your phone.
It literally means sittingthere doing absolutely nothing,
not even thinking not how it'sexactly.
You took the words out of mymouth, not even thinking, and so
you said that you meditated theother day.
So what is it that you actuallyget out of the meditation?

(10:21):
Because I've I've gone throughdifferent channels of meditation
in different times it served medifferently.
Now it's serving me vastlydifferently than what it used to
so I want to use other people'swords.

Speaker 2 (10:34):
Through all the books that I've read throughout the
years and all of thismetaphysical stuff, it's like
when you go to a vista andyou're on the cliffs and you're
looking out and you see thesunset, and you see, you know,
the ocean it's just a gorgeousview and you just are stupefied,
you're in awe, right.
You finally feel that youbelong.

(10:55):
In that moment of time, right,everything just kind of stops
and you finally feel theremm-hmm right yeah okay, that's
what meditation does.
When you can quiet outeverything else, it is the
closest thing to like you beingto yourself.
You know, it's like right nowwe're in this projection state

(11:19):
and so we're doing what we thinkwe're supposed to be doing for
society and friends and familyand all that and that kind of
like pushes ourself outside ofourself, out of like the true
essence of ourself.
And then when you finally sit,it's like that reverberation you
just get stiller and stillerand stiller and like that
silhouette of yourself finallygets into the essence of who you

(11:43):
actually are and is notreverberating wildly in the
space of yourself, and someditation, for me, gets you
closer to God, which is justbeing truly just in the moment,
which is with your true self.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, all of these things are internal.
Yes, every thing that weexperience is internal,
everything it's so, like even metouching a wall, my experience
of that wall being touched.
It's an internal thing it's mefeeling it inside.
It's not the wall actuallybeing there.
That's what.
That's what makes these thingsa projection, because the

(12:23):
assigned value is based uponwhat we say or what we think,
because if we had no way todescribe me touching a wall,
what is it?

Speaker 2 (12:32):
mm-hmm, and you go even deeper and you want quantum
physics or quantum mechanics oryou read all about it.
You're actually not eventouching it.
Yeah, you're not touchinganything at all.
You just get an electricalsignal to say that it is next to
you and it feels like it isthere.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's so hard it's the other thing too.

Speaker 2 (12:54):
It's like if it's not observed it's not there like
yes, so if you think about likea video game.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
So like, if this is a pretty good, I think a good
like articulation of you thinkabout a video game if you have
an ex the parts of the mat whereyou aren't at, they're not
there, right, because you're notperceiving them being there.
They don't need to be loadedinto the system because you're
not there yet to experience thatexactly so it's only when you

(13:21):
get into that area does it load,and then you get to experience
it so one thing that I used tolike to mess with people with
and I still do sometimes it'slike there is a mathematical
chance that I can punch a walland actually go through it
without damaging it at all,without touching it because,
everything is in motion and ifall of the particles move at the

(13:43):
exact right way at the exactright time with me and with that
I can actually go through it.
And then I was watching themovie flash the other day.
Okay, and so in the movie heactually vibrates through the
wall.
I'm like, oh my god that'sexactly what I'm talking about
the idea that I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
If all of your trillions and trillions of cells
are alive and then they areindividual, then the question is
is could you give them, couldyou somehow understand their
individual consciousness or giveit that, give that to them and
have them to separate and moveand dematerialize, and therefore

(14:22):
you go through the wall,because that's all you're asking
all of your cells to do inunison yeah is to simply move in
a different form.

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Just slide past the thing it's going past yes,
really all you're doing yes, andthat's see, that's wild.
And look, I'm gonna be honestwith you, before I started
smoking weed, I never thoughtabout things like that.
But see, I started exploringthese different ideas of like
what we're talking about is likeokay, and it's like maybe I had
these thoughts, but I wouldnever really give them much like
weight, weight because it waslike oh, that's gobbledygook

(14:55):
right but in going through thesethings and then starting to try
to understand spiritual thingsright, because that was really
important to me is to understandspiritual stuff, because I felt
spiritually empty, and so thenI would try to connect to the
quote higher self and thentrying to understand all of this
stuff.
Within me, it's like, oh, youread something or see something

(15:16):
that says, oh, all of thesethings are a projection, like no
, because it's there.
I actually had a conversationwith James Persley's been a
guest on the podcast like seventimes.
I had an argument with them.
I say a conversation, argument,whatever.
He got a little bit upsetbecause I would not take that.
He's like this wall is here,it's here.
I said but prove it because it'sright.
Yes it.
That's not proof, though that'snot proof to me that that is

(15:39):
actually there well, I mean, youcan't you.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
How do you describe it like?
For example, they have nowcreated a water jug that be when
you drink the water, it will.
The water will taste like likeorange juice or soda or coffee
or whatever, because they foundout that taste is 70% through

(16:06):
the nose, through the smelling,and so there is some smell right
before you drink it.
That turns the water in yourbrain to a different taste, and
it tastes just like the thingthat they want you to take.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
So well it was just water.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
And so what do we actually know about truth and
the idea that just by touchingsomething, you say it's there,
when scientists have proven thatwe are looking at everything
upside down and the way it comesinto our eyes is turned, and

(16:42):
then our brain turns it upsidedown?
And they have also proven thatyour brain cannot distinguish a
difference between a thought andreality.
And they've done this testwhere they just simply say close
your eyes, now picture a lemon,now take a bite of that lemon.

(17:02):
Immediately your mouth willwater because it does not know
the difference then of thethought of you taking a bite of
that lemon and you actually havean actual lemon and see that is
based upon the experience thatyou've had.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
If you've never had a lemon, you couldn't do that
mm-hmm you wouldn't know whatresponses you would have, right?
And so it's this, this mind.
Our mind is such this wildplace because, like I, can
decide I don't like somethingbefore I eat it, and sure enough
, I won't like it yep, but theother thing to do it all the
time absolutely and so like.
Then you could decide that likeokay, this makes me feel better

(17:40):
right okay, so I'm gonna do thatbecause it makes me feel it's
the meaning that I assigned toit that I find value in.
And if I want things toactually be different for me, I
have to change my meanings.
And this is goes back to trauma, childhood trauma, things like
that.
You have to redefine themeanings because me feeling
abandoned, me feeling hurt,abused, me feeling all of these-

(18:02):
things unheard, yeah, not seenand so If I now go back, if I
look at purpose, if you will, ifI now I go back and I think, oh
, my mom's death actually servedme as opposed to hurting me.
Maybe I went through some hurtfor a while for it.
But then I was faced with myown crisis of life where I was

(18:22):
trying to myself, you know, andthen the thought that came to my
mind in this moment was like Idon't want to make the same
choice my mom made.
And so now I'm thinking like Isaid thank you, Because now I
know something different to do,right?
So I redefined what that meantto me, based upon what I was

(18:43):
going through.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Well, you talk about childhood trauma and then you
also talk about perspective andit truly is the way your life
will go.
Is the perspective you hold?
There's a lovely little storyon you know.
There's these two children andtheir father is an alcoholic.
And so years later, one of thechildren is now an adult and

(19:09):
he's just a washed out drunk andyou know he's gone through
divorces and courts and DUIs andin and out of jail and maybe a
little sin of you know justdomestic violence or robbery or
whatever it's.
Just it has not turned out theway he wanted because he just
pended on the bottle too much.
And you ask him hey, why are youlike this?

(19:30):
And he would say my dad was analcoholic.
And then his other brother isthe exact opposite of this and
he's successful and he has ahappy life and a happy wife and
family and kids.
And you know he's part of thecommunity and he's a patron of
the arts and you know he's welleducated and well received and
charismatic and all of thesethings.
And you're like how are youlike this?

(19:51):
Why are you like that?
And he's like my dad's analcoholic.
And you just, whatever happensto you, you can't control what
happens to you, but you cancontrol how you decide to deal
with the situation and it's justa nice little story to be like.
You're always in control.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
So the circumstances were the same for each people,
right, but their perception ofwhat those circumstances caused
them to do, right.
So if I perceive the I've dealtwith CPTSD and all these crazy
things, right.
But if I look at it and I thinkabout, like this has been
something that I've been doingthe last couple of months since

(20:31):
my wife left me, it's like whatdoes that mean for me?
Because I held on to it for solong, and I think that that
damages the relationship too,because it was hurt and I
carried around that hurt and soI dealt with things with pain,
like I'm walking around with thepain of this hurt.
And so then I start looking atit again.
I'm like, oh wait, my dad, hedid the best that he actually

(20:55):
could.
Me expecting somethingdifferent is a little bit unfair
.
Because, I believe now thateveryone shows up the best way
that they possibly can at anygiven moment, and if I expect
different, that's myexpectations, not theirs.
And then that leads me intowhat I did a live stream about.
Today is judgment, and when youmake like judgments of other

(21:15):
people, if you judge someoneelse and you say, hey, you're
not doing good enough, you'renot doing what you're supposed
to.
And let's take the example ofthe alcoholic and the father,
the father being the alcoholicand the son the son that failed
blames.
The expectation was that hisfather was going to be different
.
But also, maybe the other guyhad an expectation that the
father would be different, but Iwould guarantee you the guy

(21:36):
that went through all of theseother things was living a life,
would have the perspective of.
That's just who he was.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
And it doesn't have to define me.
So one of those choices, evenif they hurt me, do not have to
define me.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
And that's where I find myself in my circumstance
right now, because I've had todeal with that, because I don't
want to blame my separated wife,my strange wife, because we're
not divorced or anything yet.
So it's still, you know, Iguess, up in the air because
nobody's filed anything.
But I can't allow the thingsthat have happened to define me
Right.

(22:12):
It's not who I am, it's justsomething that has happened.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's just.
It's just simply one experiencethat is in the current realm of
your reality.
You go back.
You weren't a father.
You go back.
You weren't married.
You go back, you weren't.
You know, whatever youraccolades are in the past, you
know this certificate, thatcertificate, that diploma, that

(22:36):
certification, that traveler,that you know.
Whatever artist, whatever.
You go farther back, you'rejust a baby with potential and
how do you define it, how do wedefine it?

Speaker 1 (22:48):
And that is the shape of our world, how we define
these things.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Well, and another thing is sometimes things are
defined for us because we areobviously from a lineage, so
things came before us.
We are, we walk on the ruins ofour ancestors and the past, and
so a lot of things are alreadyhere in place that get adopted

(23:13):
to us, and then, through our ownlife and experience, we have to
decide what to hold on to andwhat to shed.
A lot of people don't get thecourage, though, to shed certain
things, even if they don'tagree with them, because of what
they call society standards orsaving face, or you know, the

(23:33):
idea of shame and guilt topeople that we care about, and I
think it's everybody's journeyto decide what works for them
and what doesn't, and whateverpeople have given you their
burden, their pain, theirhistory, their lineage, their
culture, their religion, youknow their knowledge, their
racism, their whatever.

(23:54):
You have to decide for yourself.
Do I want to carry this with me?
Does it?
Is this who I want to be,because it will eventually
define you, and so you have todecide and mold yourself,
because if you don't makeyourself, as Incubus says,
someone else will make you foryourself.
So you might as well do ityourself.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
And that's where accountability comes into play,
right?
So if you just aimlessly wanderthrough the world, the world
will shape you however the worldwants you.
And it's based upon, like yousaid, all the lineage, all the
things that came before you thatyou didn't even know, that you
were indoctrinated into.
You didn't choose to believethis, you were, you picked it up
.
So, like, think about, like,car car culture in Texas.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Compared to New York, most kids under the age of 25
don't have a car here.
By the time you're 16, you'realready driving.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, most of them drive.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Yes, and so just that idea that we live in a car
centric society.
And so then why don't we havesidewalks everywhere where we
make it easy, and then you seepeople, then it's a judgment.
Why don't the people who onlyuse trans public transportation
are of a lower social economicclass?

(25:10):
And so then we view it as oh, Idon't want to be a part of that
, I don't want that to beassociated with me, and so then
I don't want to support it,because then the riffraff keeps
on getting closer and closer tome and I want to keep it farther
away, and that's how thesuburbs are created, and the
suburbs are needed for cars.
We want to keep the riffraffaway, and so and all of this is

(25:31):
just already there and ingrainedinto us, and we didn't, we had
simply created rules and lawsand and legislation to allow car
culture to kill the tight knitcommunity and city and we didn't
have to do that and we don'thave to do that in the future.

(25:51):
We did do that and there aresome cities that are, you know,
putting way more greenery,walking space, biking paths and
all of that.
It's still better in someplaces and Should be better in
other places.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, of course, but see, like I would see that the
as you described, that I seethose all, all those thoughts
and decisions were based uponjudgment.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Mm-hmm right.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
A judgment of this is bad or this is good, because
the reality is it's neither.
It just is, yes, right.
So having a car, it's not goodnor bad.
Not having a car, it's not goodnor bad.
It just is a circumstance thatexists and if you make it a
judgment, I have this, theydon't.
I don't like that.
I like what I have right.
You're creating separation.
Yeah that's a love loss.

(26:34):
That is a love loss becausethat separation that exists is
what divides everything, that'swhat keeps everything going
further and further apart,whereas if you could not have a
car and see somebody with a carin black man, that's cool.
They got that.
I'm glad they do.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Yeah, good for them.

Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, instead of saying they're ruining my, my
roads, they're ruining mysidewalks and stuff like that.
Because the reality is, I think, all things exist, all things
can exist and they can existsimultaneously with one another.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
But the thing peacefully is what you're saying
things go away when they aren'tneeded though.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, and so if cars are less needed because people
are more communal, that's justthat's what happens.
But if you're judging the carsbeing there, the cars will
increase the car, there will bemore cars, there will be more
Expansion, there will be moreseparation because of the
judgment of it existing.
And so all of these peopletalking about being green and

(27:30):
this, that another, yeah, butalso the earth has always been
in a change, and to blame onething or another is a judgment.
The reality is we do have aneffect how much of an effect,
and all this, I'm not gonna getinto that.
But the judgment of it existing, meaning that somebody else is
causing this problem, but not me.

(27:50):
Yeah it's like the Phariseepraying to God and the Publican
praying to God, the Phariseespraying the self-righteous
prayer, saying thank God, I'mnot like the publican this is in
Luke, luke 8, but thank God,I'm not like the publican.
But then the publicans like God, I'm sinful, I have made
mistakes.
I'm please have mercy on me.

(28:11):
Where's the?
The Pharisee, which is therighteousness of God, doing
everything right, following thelaw of God, if you will, thinks
that they are better, and that'swhat people, with and without
that's the judgment is thinking.
That it's self-righteousnessand, yeah, judgment of it.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
So yeah that judging others is obviously you know.
None of us live.
And what is it glad we all livein glass houses and throw
stones right.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Throw stones because I'm a good rock thrower, though,
right.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Probably the best.
That actually reminds me of astory in sixth grade.
I was walking on the On thetrack in high school right, but
I was in sixth grade business.
Sixth grade center was rightnext to the high school business
.
Sixth grade center Was the oldhigh school right, and so then
they just simply changed itinstead.

(29:03):
All six graders of Cedar HillHigh School.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Are gonna say you definitely went to school in
Texas, didn't you?
Yeah, that's exactly what Texasdoes, yeah and a lot of people
moved in, so we built anotherschool.
You can have the old one.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
Yep, yep, that's exactly it.
And the the high school parkinglot was, you know, a stone's
throw literally From this trackand field, and so we're all
doing our laps like we'resupposed to do.
But of course we're kids and wewant to create havoc and in the
world, and so people are like,oh, but you guys can't throw a
rock and get it over that fence,and I was just like I could do

(29:37):
it.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
All right.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
I'm that kid, yeah, and so I did it.
And of course I hit a car andthe car had an alarm and it just
started going off.
And then of course you see 20kids simultaneously just start
running.
Guilty as hell, not us, not us.
So we get about 200 meters onthe back half and you know, pe

(30:00):
coach is just just waiting.
Okay, just staring at us and youknow, just be like okay, who's
gonna run out who?
Because I'm about to grillevery single one of y'all.
And so it's like they all kindof stopped walking and Kind of
like moved away from me and kindof pointing their fingers and
just I was like yeah, okay, itwas me.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
That's why turning of snitches get stitches.
Uh-huh all of you, guys, yougot it coming.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, I don't even know what happened to me.
Maybe a Saturday detention.
I think nothing was broken.
Maybe you have to ask my mom.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
The reality is oh man , I spent so much time in
detention that I was bestfriends with the detention
teacher.
Yeah, and you know they.
They changed them out because,like, where I went to school,
that is like it's like everyweek they had a different person
that volunteered for detention,or something like that.
I don't remember the specificslike I Also get my memories
confused with others now.
That I shared so many likestories and things like that

(30:53):
with people that I'm like that'sanother wild thing.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
That makes me think how many of our memories we just
Actually yours, we adoptedsomebody else's memory and every
time you recall, you're notrecalling that, you're recalling
the memory of it that's a greatSomething to add because you
know, I show my daughters, mydaughters to my two oldest
daughters live in New York withtheir mother, so they only come

(31:18):
down to Texas three times a year, right, and I do as much as I
possibly can because to me I'mdoing quality over quantity.
I'm trying to put in corememories in their brain to make
sure that they know that I inTexas and their family in Texas
love them, want to be with themand, just like, are there to

(31:40):
support them and as they getolder we want them to come and
visit us.
That's the whole idea.
So we have all of thesepictures and you know, when they
come in we show them.
Hey, this is what we did, youknow, two, two years ago, that
Christmas, that spring break,that summer when we were in
Missouri, or you know, whateverwe do, all these things they
don't remember.
They don't remember.

(32:00):
But they will now have apicture, a concrete picture, for
that memory, and Even it'swedged in there.
And now I have added a layerupon that memory that they say
they don't remember, but oncethey see the picture, they do
remember.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, but now theyget this concrete image to put

(32:21):
into it.
And now, by by how I talk aboutit, by what I remember, I am
adding to that essential memory.
And so, yes, that memory thatmy daughter will now have in the
future and how she willremember it, is Partly my memory
that I gave her, absolutely youknow.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
This reminds me I had James on a couple episodes ago
and he actually said somethingwhen he went to Montana.
He goes, I took a picture.
I feel like I stole something.
Hmm, it's like I took somethingfrom there and it's like that
resonated with me deeply,because Think about when cameras
didn't exist and I had toactually Experience it as
opposed to snap a picture andthen I'll look at it later.

(33:03):
I'm not saying that that's whatyou're doing, because I don't
want to make an accusation there, but I'm just saying that like
how many times you're fine, howmany times do we go for the?
we take the picture, but maybewe're taking something of the
essence of what's actually thereto be seen Away from it as
opposed to.
And then we get to develop thisidea and this is something like

(33:23):
me going back to my trauma, mypast.
I Get to redefine what thatmeans for me.
So if I look at that picture,maybe I have a negative memory
of that Maybe I have thisnegative like oh man, that was
where I got my ass beat at right.
It's like or that's where I gotinto a fight, or that's where I
got left Right those things likeJoe dirt right.

(33:46):
Yeah, yeah you know, and so thenit becomes this thing about
okay, well, where's the power inthat right?
Where is the but?
You can define it because allof the things that we go through
Shape us.
So you taking your girls andhaving those experiences, even
if they can't recall it, mm-hmm,they're being shaped by it,
which is, I think, our objectiveis, fathers, to be able to

(34:07):
shape our children in a way thatthey get to then experience
life in a meaningful way, and ifwe are trying to Make them see
it a certain way, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
That's never positive or good, I think, in the day
you always want your kids to bethem mm-hmm themselves.
I just feel like I'm a mentor,a guide, someone that is here to
help them understand how toCreate whatever life they want
to create.
I don't want them.
I don't want to livevicariously through them.

(34:40):
I don't want them to depend onme in such a way that they can't
stand on their own, but I wantthem to know that I'll always be
there for you want them totrust you in that relationship
built, and so I heard this thisreal the other day.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
That was it said.
Your parents are like a coach.
Coach can never play the game.
They can only give you a plan,tell you how they think you
should do it, but you're the onethat actually has to do your
parents.
Just a coach they will neverstep on the field, and every
time that you try to livevicariously through your kids

(35:18):
Step on the field, so to speak,or to guide them in a very
specific way.
Yeah, I do think you'reminimizing what is possible.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, you just.
It created a crazy image in mymind.
I have see baseball and I seelike little t-ball kids and then
the dad just picks up the kidand runs the bases.
And how does that look foreverybody?
How, what is that memory forthe dad?
And what about the kid justbeing dragged by the dad saying

(35:48):
I, under your own weight andpower, it doesn't matter how
fast or so you were, I'm gonnado this for you.
And I think that just takes itaway.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, I, it's man, that's a, and so that image
right there, let's build on thatimage so like let's say that
that kid grows up and is upsetat his dad.
Now we're not doing thatWhenever something's hard in
life, dad, I need you to pick meup and tote me around the bases
right, because if you set thatprecedent, mm-hmm, it's up to
you to fulfill it.

(36:16):
Otherwise, your love isconditional because now you've
chosen not to do it Right, andso that that's.
I'm not saying that that washow the father felt.
I'm just saying that thechild's mind, that is exactly
how that child will feel.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
And if if any parent in Any situation is going to go
to some extreme measure, measurelike that example, they're not.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
They're gonna do it again and of course some other
aspect of life and that is goingto become normalized and a
habit and Look, I'm guilty thatI coached my kids through
baseball and we actually havegiven up all sports, not because
I have a problem with it, butbecause it's like I was too
invested in being the coach andcoaching the kids.

(36:59):
Yeah as opposed to allowing thekids to have an experience.
So I had to reel back because Ihad other things in life that I
thought served better and so I,some of my kids, want to get
back in the sports.
We probably will.
But what just kind of took abreath back, kind of took a step
back because Of the things thatyou're talking about, seeing
those things, and I was judgingparents for how they were doing

(37:20):
it.
But the reality is, let them dothat.
That's their kid, their problem.
They're gonna go through thatand all this stuff.
But the hardest part iscoaching another parents, kids,
while they're sitting there.
Wanting to correct you don'ttalk to him that way, don't do
that blah, blah, blah like thatstuff's hard man.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
It is.
It is being a teacher myselfand a soccer coach.
You do have parents come up toyou.
Hey, I'm so, and so, hey, thisis my kid.
Hey, you know, he likes thisposition.
Hey, he does this, hey, youknow, and it's like, yeah, I'll
take care of it.
Wherever I think he is best, Iwill take care of it.

(37:57):
I appreciate that but I'll seethrough his own work ethic
during practice in the gameswhat he can do for me.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
You don't have to come up and tell me that and
give me, like the 411, beforeyou know he's ever put on the
it's like also like they'retrying to create this image of
their kids, so you favor them oryou put them in the position
that they want them in that also.
That made me think of anotherthing about like I just lost it
Whenever you're, whenever you'rea coach, like think about
Friday night lights, if you everwatch that movie or whatever

(38:27):
you have the parents and standsoh, you need put so and so in.
Blah, blah, blah, take him out.
All these things.
Right, yeah, see peoplewatching football, doing stuff.
It's like Let the coach be theevaluator for the objective
there.
All right, but also there'sreally bad coaches.
There's really bad coaches, yeah, but also there's another.

(38:47):
This is I remember it now.
So I saw this post that said itwas a coach making a post and
it said my job is Is to what wasit?
What was it specifically?
My job is to Find the rightperson to do it.
It's your job to make sure youare that person.
Yeah, now there's a little hintof truth to that, but I think

(39:08):
that the way that I see it islike, as a coach, it's my job to
see where you're falling shortand how to help you help the
team Right.
So if I got a slugger, let'stalk about baseball.
If I got a slug, a kid that canbat really well but he sucks at
running bases, not everything'sgonna be a homer, bro, you can
hit it out to center field andstill a single.
So I'm gonna help him learn howto run bases right.

(39:30):
So it's like, as a coach, youhave to think about those things
.
And then you got a lineup.
Oh, you got to put a lineup up.
You got this kid that can crankit.
Well, you definitely want somekid with some wheels on in front
of them because you want to geta score on us on a slow kid
single, if you can.
So like there's a lot of likeunderstand what's the objective
here.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
What are?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
you trying to do and that's the coach's job.
And the parents, the peoplethat are telling they don't
understand what the coach's viewand objective is of the team
most of those parents are simplyOnly caring about their kid.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
They're not caring about the team aspect, and the
coach, specifically, should notbe playing favorites.
Therefore, he's looking at theentire team and how each
individual will contribute tothe entire team, while the
parent is only looking at littleJohnny or Jimmy or whoever they
have.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I mean they're personally invested in them.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yes, exactly Nothing wrong with that and I completely
understand if they believe, oh,my kid should have this or that
or whatever.
That's great, that's yourbelief.
That doesn't mean that thecoach is going to Interact or,
sorry, create that, that exactgame plan that that specific
parent wants.
You're just gonna have to Takeit.
You're just gonna have to simplytake it.

(40:43):
Not everything happens the waywe want it to happen, and that's
what shapes us.
Sometimes you want to be reallygreat at baseball and a coach
does not believe in you, nomatter how good you are or what
you show.
And you have to decide.
Am I going to stay in thisrelationship With this coach who

(41:03):
does not see me, believe in me,know that what I can do, or am
I gonna go to another baseballteam and show them my skills
there and not be taken forgranted?

Speaker 1 (41:14):
I think both lessons are valuable though.
Yeah, but they do shape yougoing forward.
Mm-hmm, right, because, like,if you stay in that that
relationship with that coach, towhere the coach is undervaluing
you, there's something to besaid about.
If you really want to be valued, how do you out, work, the
circumstances that is possible.
Yeah, I'm telling you, that's ahard road, it's a really hard

(41:34):
road that you may never get seen.
But then maybe you take theother routes where this other
coach is like oh, you can be thesuperstar of the team.
No, maybe you're not superstarmaterial, you're just the best
player, but you don't have theleadership qualities.
You don't have the things thatthe other coach saw, that you
didn't have.
This coach could break you.
Yeah, I'd see you like that's.
That's how complex all of thesethings are, so it doesn't

(41:55):
actually matter what you choose.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, it doesn't.
Either way, it's gonna be alesson, because even that other
coach, that second coach, maybehe turns you into a star and now
you're battling with ego.
Utism yeah right, this ideathat I'm too hot for myself and
everybody else.
And then let's say you do, moveon to the next stage and you
find out you're a big fish in alittle pond right and so again,

(42:21):
everything is simply just thatlesson and what it.
There is no good or bad.
It's just you coming to gripswith who you truly are, because
there will always be someonebetter than you and there will
always be someone worse than youalways look for category.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
I used to look for people that were worse.
I felt good about myself.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
I'm gonna be right.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I didn't know that that was my pattern of behavior.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
I definitely would look for people that I thought
were Less than me yeah, numberone, so that I I wanted to be
With all of my friends.
What it ended up being is I wasalways the moral, the conscious
one, the morally Astute onethat would be like this is where
we draw the line.
But when there was other peoplearound that would have that
line drawing ability, I'mcrossing it and I'm going well

(43:06):
beyond it.
So I would choose to be aroundpeople to where I could be the
one that says, hey, this is toofar.
But if I was around otherpeople that would say, hey, this
is too far, I'm like you don'ttell me what to do.
Yeah, and see, it's like I hada habit of like really closing
myself off because, again,there's value in doing that, but
there's also value inoverstepping the, the line

(43:28):
drawing and see, it isn't goodor bad, it just is.
So the experience that wechoose, it's all.
It's like an interactive bookor an interactive game.
Yeah it's like it doesn't reallymatter what experience we
choose.
We all eventually, in my view,get to the same place.
I believe in karma to somedegree.
Like the car make cycle of like.
If you don't get the lesson inthis lifetime, in this physical

(43:49):
body, I'm pretty sure you getanother one.
And I'm not saying it's good orbad, I'm not.
I'm just saying that, like, I'mpretty sure that if you don't
get to what Christians wouldcall heaven, you cycle through
again until you get there.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Well, see one, that's where me and you differ.
I do believe in a concept ofheaven, but I do not think it is
that place where you go afterdeath.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
I don't think heaven's an actual physical spot
because it's eternal.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
There's no physicality to something eternal
so then, I would say for me,the best death definition of
heaven is Closeness to God, andtherefore hell would be the
absence of God, and so you canbe In your so-called heaven
right now, at this time, bysimply listening to yourself,

(44:37):
going within and following thatheart which is God, because God
is love.

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, and so that's brings me to this.
Suffering is a choice.
Yeah, right, so, andexpectations is uh-huh so think,
think about Jesus on the cross,right to make it.
Make it about Jesus Christright.
Jesus on the cross Suffering.
That would be suffering topeople physical suffering.
But even on the cross.
The mind of the story, with themind of Jesus, is to Still

(45:07):
offer forgiveness and toessentially Forgive them, father
, for they know not what they do, because hurt people hurt
people.
Row, yeah, hurt people, hurtpeople even forgave One of the
criminals that was beingcrucified is next to him.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
And so, again, instead of focusing on himself,
focusing on what he was about toendure, he was still offering
mercy and love and compassion toother people in the same plight
that he was.
So, again, it's like thatperson didn't do anything for
him, right?

(45:42):
And he didn't have to see him,he didn't have to Acknowledge
him, yeah, by all means.
And yet he, he did that anyways, and I think that's what's so
beautiful.
You truly know a person'scharacter by how they interact
with people that Cannot doanything for them.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Yeah, that's wild.
So like and see things likethat actually give me peace,
because I'm like okay, now I maynot be Jesus, right, but
there's at least an example of Idon't have to suffer.
I can still, in my pain and allof the things that I'm enduring
, still find peace, still beable to offer Mercy and kindness

(46:25):
to other people.
I don't have to perceive thesethings as attacks and see.
This is something that I'velearned recently too, probably
within the last year.
If I perceive something as anattack, it's just a perception.
It doesn't matter what they'reactually doing.
Even if somebody came up with agun and shot me with it, that
is not an attack.
It is perceived as an attackwhen, in all reality, they're

(46:46):
just dealing with theircircumstances in the best way.
They know how.
I just happen to be the one infront of them.
See, their projection crossesmy projection.
Yes and the definitions that Igive these things is how I
perceive it.
Mm-hmm and so if I perceive andI'm not saying that like
somebody's shooting me would bea good thing, I'm just saying
that like if I perceive it as anattack, I will condemn them

(47:08):
Right, I will, I will judge them, I will say damn them for doing
that.
Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Listen that most of those attacks it's not personal
and so we don't have to take itas personal.
Obviously something is derangedin that person and they have so
hurt that they want to hurtother people hurt you right
exactly, and you just happen tobe in the spot where this hurt
person is going to decide tomake it that's less deadly

(47:33):
people cutting you off intraffic.
It ain't got nothing to do withyou.
No, it doesn't.
Why you getting mad about yeahwhy people getting mad about?

Speaker 1 (47:40):
yeah, there's no reason to get mad.
I mean.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
I get mad at people going so damn slow, and again it
has nothing to do with me.
I'm just like, ah, then it'sall about patience, right?
So I get it and I agree withyou.
And yet we Constantly love tohave irk at other people, we
love to say they're the reason Iam feeling this way.

(48:03):
But I think and I think thebigger thing is, as we don't
know how to not be our emotions-that is a hard lesson and
there's.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Look, I Talked into a lot of people and so, like I'll
talk to someone on the phone,they'll be in the car and I've
been driving.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
They're driving, so slow.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
They're driving so slow.
It's like why have so manyemotions about that?
Like it's like, even if it ispersonal, even if somebody does
cut you off because it's youknow, I ain't got nothing to do
with you, because they're makingtheir choices and if you
perceive it as an attack, youwill address it as an attack.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Well, because it what it does is it creates a certain
emotion within you and youlatch on to that emotion and
that emotion could be anger orfright, or a fast heart race or
whatever, and then you have asan Association to that feeling,
and now that association is apersonal attack, but it could be

(49:03):
, you know, a multitude ofthings.
You know there's a multitude offeelings in road rage and and
traffic in general, and, and tome I completely agree with you.
I simply try, because you knowyou'll get these feelings
blowing up within you and I Caremore about my feelings when it
has to do with my significantother, about relationships, I

(49:26):
mean, I melt and I it's almostlike I cannot live in the world
when I am having issues with mypartner, when I have a partner
man, I, I resonate with that.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
It makes it really hard.
Yes, I we, I bear them.
Yes, I bear them and I'm justlike oh man, it's like that's
probably like some childhoodProbably probably is, but it's
like it's like Metallica song,nothing else matters like I
don't care about my job.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
I don't even care about my kids at that time and
that's so horrible to saybecause it's like, well, and I
look at it at the time when,when this happened this was
years ago I'm recalling a memoryI, I was like I didn't have
kids without the relationship.
So to me, the relationshipcreated the kids and so when the
relationship was was beingruined or Was not the way I had

(50:15):
perceived it in my mind orwanted or hoped or whatever,
everything else simply went to astandstill.
Because if I didn't have thatrelationship aka If you haven't
noticed, I was codependent.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yeah, toxic.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
It just.
It took me out of my elementand I was a person that thought
I was able to control myself andand control my thoughts and
feelings and emotions.
And then here it is my biggestweakness I felt like I was
nothing, without Someone lovingme and being like you're a good

(50:56):
person and I value you and Iwant to spend time with me.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
I mean that stuff feels good.
It does feel good, but thething is, when we need that
we're not.
We're not fulfilling it forourselves, right?
And so like where me it was alittle bit different.
Similar, but a little bitdifferent to me.
The kid stuff, that's cool.
I'm very confident andcomfortable with that.
It's like I'm not.
I don't need this person for meto be that person.
Yeah but this right here, thisright here is my attention.

(51:24):
This because that's cool.
I got that with the kids.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
That's cool, like I trust that, See, I can do it
right.
I just I didn't have the heartand it Well, see I.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
I would be able to like, okay, that's separate than
this.
Yeah, and maybe that's maybenot with my ex-wife, with me and
my wife that recently split.
It's like when I'm focused inon that, yeah, her, in that
situation I will stop that to godo the kid thing, but then, as
soon as that's to a stop people,I'm right back at it.
Yeah, I'm just like, okay, letme, let me, let me fix this, let

(51:55):
me deal with this, let me, letme try to do better, let me let
me help, let me, let me, let me,let me, let me, let me, let me,
let me.
But the reality is is like, bro, chill, yeah, just chill,
because I needed.
I needed that reassurance.
I needed that like, oh, I'm,I'm not going to do.
I needed that.
I wasn't confident enough inmyself and in that situation

(52:17):
that I needed them to fulfillthat for me, whereas if I'd have
shown up feeling that way, thecircumstances probably would
have been different.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, and you, you, you also brought up a good point
that I would like to Like divein on.
It was this idea that when youchanged your activity, you
changed your emotions.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
And that is for people who do not know how to
get out of their emotions.
That's why it's so important tojust simply change the activity
you are doing.
I mean because then youremotions do change and then it
does be able become easier foryou to then live your life
Without being over overcome bythose crazy emotions, in

(52:59):
whatever Area of your life hasbeen blown up, I guess you would
say is Change your activity.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Um that brings me to the point of like kids.
That's whenever my kids aregetting super worked up in their
emotions.
I just try to get them out ofwhat they're thinking about.
Let me do something that'sgoing to oh, like, oh, let me
look at that.
Or, or how was your day?
How is it?
Let me read this book to you,like I'm trying to find things
that will change what they'rethinking about, and then come

(53:28):
back to it.

Speaker 2 (53:28):
So then that goes to distractions, because we are
trying to distract them fromtheir own feelings.
And now it's all back to thisidea of having healthy
distractions and not picking updrugs.
Not picking up you knowsomething that is such a
distraction that it sucks you inand creates Naked not.

(53:52):
Yeah, it would be negativeconsequences over a period of
time in your life if it became afavorable.
Yeah, well, you know the ideaof like Eating your Eating your
feelings and then becoming adiabetic Right.
That obviously would not bepositive.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, no, absolutely not.
It's like, unless being adiabetic makes you change the
way that you're being an.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Become an artist, and then you use your pain to yeah.
So knowledge to everybody, Well.

Speaker 1 (54:21):
I think the second piece, though, is when you
distract your child, or when youdistract yourself, you have to
do it knowing I have to comeback to this.
I have to come back to this.
Well, yeah, you can't run fromyour problems, can you?
Oh, I tried, everybody does.
I've tried for 30, some oddyears.
You know, I really tried to runfrom my problems because I
thought me moving away from itWas solving it.
It's, oh man, that brings me tothis idea.

(54:43):
I see all these videos aboutlike narcissism and all of this
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
I'm like it's everywhere.
I'm like, oh my god, Everyone'sa narcissist now.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Well, here's the thing we all have narcissistic
tendencies because we do it toprotect ourselves at survival,
Absolutely so we're calling youhave to use your ego to survive.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Uh-huh and then you just have to recognize that
you're not over using,overcompensating your ego and
learning to work within acommunity friends, family,
society, collaboration, whateverright and so you have to know,
just like like when to work andplay, you have to know when to
use your ego and when to focuson community and focus on others

(55:23):
.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Well yeah, I mean, look, I think that this is how I
see it.
My view is like.
You know how people say God andthe devil?
Right, uh-huh, that internalbattle.
The ego is the devil.
Yes, the ego is the one sittingon the shoulder saying I do
this because the ego will doEverything it can to keep itself
alive and in power.
The ego will even kill you, tothe point of keeping itself in

(55:46):
power.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
But the craziest of all of that is we're talking
about duality.
And then it goes into these aretwo sides of the same coin.
Because the god, the brand newalbum, that's the artist, god
and the god and devil are raginginside of me.
Great album, go listen to it.
But that word, the god anddevil raging inside of me,

(56:07):
that's our duality Of everythingthat we're simply experiencing
and that leads to christ'sconsciousness, where we
recognize that we all come fromthe same cloth, we all bleed the
same blood, and when werecognize that everybody is
Living in duality and then, ifyou can, come to a singular
understanding.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Yeah, you're articulating this so well
because the the dual mind, right, living with a dual mind leaves
you confused, yes and right.
And so, as you are confused inlife, as you keep the oh, I feel
bad, let me go do this.
Oh, I got fat, though, right,oh, let me go do this.
Oh man, I ended up in jailbecause I got drunk on a park
bench you know what I?
mean.
And so it's like thesatisfaction, like the things

(56:49):
that the ego does does not serveyou long term.
The things that the ego doesserves the ego.
Yes, it serves that immediatemoment, what the ego does.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
And then here's the idea of escaping from the actual
work, the feeling, and that issurrendering here is.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
The problem with doing that with ego, though, is
that's a wagon that's loadedwith problems.
The soul keeps counting.
The soul keeps counting untilyou start dealing with it that
the soul will hold it, and it'slike so.
If you think about disease, youthink about issues.
This is probably going to beweird to people, but, like even
cancer and stuff like this, itis all rooted within.
How can some people bepredisposed to this stuff and

(57:27):
then not get cancer?
And others too?
Like the beliefs in which youcarry, the stresses that it's
caused and the ways in which youdeal with those things is what
causes these diseases.
I believe that wholeheartedly.
I think that people that getcancer, the people that overcome
cancer, is because theysurrender.
They surrender to the fact thatthis is what I got.
Yeah, this is what I'm gonna do.

(57:47):
The people that fight, fight,fight, fight.
That usually kills them, andI'm not saying you shouldn't
fight for your life.
I think the moment of surrenderand that's the duality thing is
like once you stop living inthe dual mind and you surrender.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
And you simply accept it.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
It just starts to.
It just starts to disappear.
And I'm not saying your disease.
There are things that once itgets past a certain point you
can't just reverse it.
But if you're wanting to avoidthose types of things, if you
want to have the best chance atthat, you got to do soul work,
you got to do the internal work.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Well, you know, you, you, you find out you have
cancer already.
That does not sound good andyou have two choices, right?
You fight it, you deny it, youtry to get rid of it, right,
that's one way and, like yousaid, that leads to more
problems.
That's, you know, just just somany Issues with it.
And sure your chance, sure,maybe you get an extra few years

(58:41):
of your life, right, but if yousimply just accept it, when you
accept it, you're acceptingeverything within your life.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Everything, everything and when you do that.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And now it doesn't matter if you got those two
years, you don't.
It doesn't matter if cancergoes away and you get an extra
20, it doesn't matter if youonly give it six months.
You're now actually alive forthe first time in your life
because you have finallyaccepted Everything that has
been given to you and you'rejust like here I am.
I can't believe I waited thislong to simply let go and stop

(59:13):
trying to control things.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yeah, that's wild, because I actually, you know, I
met somebody one time that hadbeat cancer and then they were
like I didn't want to live thislong though.
I there's like like they hadaccepted life but then, like
life got hard again because thatacceptance and they had beaten
cancer and then they had Gottenon in life again.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
They're like I kind of wish I had cancer again.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Like, but also think about how many people think
themselves into having cancer ornot.
Let's say I'm not want to talkcancer too much because people
have issues, but, like, thinktheir self into sickness.
Whenever I was dealing with alot of stress I was having
affairs, I had a stressful job Iwasn't being showing up to my
life the way that I needed toScrew anybody's judgments, I

(59:52):
just wasn't showing up the way Ineeded to, being responsible
for the things, and so my soulwas keeping count of these
things.
Right, okay, I ended up gettingmy tonsils taken out because
the doctors couldn't figure outwhat was wrong.
Because I was sick, I wasalways running fever, I was
always Missing work, I wasalways you know, it's all these
problems, but the doctors justcouldn't pinpoint it and they're
like, oh, let's take thetonsils out.
I took the tonsils out and it'slike, oh, I'm still having the

(01:00:14):
problems.
Well, that clearly wasn't it,and it's like.
I felt like I was on an episodeof doctor house on house Like,
oh, we can't, we can't solvethese problems.
But then all of those problemsstarted to go away after I
wanted to kill myself and I justdecided that I was done.
I'm done with this, this isjust what it is.
And then I ended up at thehospital and I had to start
doing all this work.
All of those issues have justslowly melted away.

(01:00:37):
All of these things that thedoctors couldn't find, the
doctors couldn't solve, all ofmy joint issues, all of these
things just slowly started tosubside to where I feel
healthier now, at 35.
Then I did 20, and it's simplybecause I'm not under the stress
of my own judgment or thejudgment of others or what I
think I should do, because I'veaccepted that I am those things.
I did those things, whereas Iwas hiding from those things.

(01:01:00):
Right, I would wake up feelingterrible.
I wouldn't sleep.
I'd sleep.
I had all these problems.
Man, all of these problems Noneof them.
I have none of them anymore.
None of them, and I attributethat to acceptance.
I attribute that to I'm reallyopen and honest with people
about my screw-ups, like I tellpeople I did drugs, I tell
people I had affairs, because Idon't care if they judge me
because I've already been judgedfor it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's already affected my life.
Yeah, I'm judging me.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
He's not gonna change anything and and, and so I I
see a lot of people that I tryto help are dealing with the
same thing, but me talking likethat, like, oh, like, if you
want to feel better, stopjudging yourself, it's like
Forgive yourself for those pastmistakes as well, yeah right
Like we want.

Speaker 2 (01:01:44):
We want to be seen as a good person, but through life
we do all these wrong thingsand then we end up saying we're
a bad person and it's like, well, you're only saying you're a
bad person now.
Sure, maybe you did some ofthose things on purpose and they
maybe even premeditated.
But most of those things you didout of ignorance, most of those
things you did because they'rehabitual and only when you

(01:02:08):
started to self reflect andactually see your own bullshit
were you able to stop it, andthat is why you forgive yourself
, because if you would have sawit sooner, you would have
stopped it sooner, but youdidn't see it until you did, you
didn't have the awareness untilyou were aware of it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Like exactly how can you be aware of something until
you become aware of it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Like if.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
I hadn't.
I'm gonna tell you thissomething I talk about too.
I used to judge people soharshly for having affairs.
I used to be so mean and rudeto somebody how could somebody
do that?
But then I'd found my spot in alife, in my life, to where I
just felt unloved, I feltunliked, I felt nobody wanted to
be around me.
And then I got attention fromsomebody.
I'm just like oh, this is nice,and I got a little more

(01:02:53):
attention and a little moreattention, and I was a weak
individual and I fell into thetrap, so to speak.
Not that that person wastrapping me, but I fell into the
trap of that like that oh, thisis nice, it's nice.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Let me get more of that.
Yeah, the carrot in front ofthis, the carrot in front of the
donkey, whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
And then I didn't feel guilty until I Crossed a
line that I couldn't come backfrom.
Yeah, the thing is, the momentthat I started considering that
was a line that I couldn't comeback from Because I didn't have
the, the self control, thediscipline and all of that stuff
to say this isn't going toserve me, but I would not be
here today to be able to saythat had I not done it.

(01:03:30):
So me judging other people Putme in a spot to do that, and so
then me doing that.
There's two things that have tohappen at that point I either
got to soften on other people orI got to be hard on myself.
I tried the hard on myself.
It didn't work very good.
And so if I'm judging myself,saying, oh, you're just a
cheater, you're this, you'rethat, I'm gonna do that to
everybody else too, it's like.

(01:03:52):
But if I just look at myself assomeone's like man I was, I was
in a deep spot, I was in a darkspot and I did the best that I
could and I made that decision.
I made that decision.
It affected people.
I'm sorry that I hurt people.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I'm sorry that I interacted you own it, but I did
it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yeah, and I can't hide from that and I don't want
to walk around and then havesomebody find out about it and
then me lose my footing withwhere I'm at.
So I'm just completely open andhonest.
If I get into anotherrelationship or something like
that, it's all over the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
I've had affairs.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Yeah right, yeah, all over the internet, yeah, but me
doing that as a show of honesty, I'm not hiding from anything
anymore and it's been a slowprogression of like I'm not
hiding from it and I'll allowpeople now, even allow my kids,
to say Dad, I don't want you.
I don't, you shouldn't, I don'tthink you should be doing that,
dad.
I allowed him to tell me becausemy dad would never, I didn't

(01:04:43):
have the authority to tell mydad what he should.
I'm a kid, he's an adult, yeah,but the thing is people around
to see things that we can't see.
Yeah, that's true because we'restuck in our own purview, we're
looking directly at what we'relooking at, with no peripherals,
and then the people that wetrust around us saying, hey,
maybe you shouldn't take thatdrink man, because you drank
three nights in a row and you'vegotten in a slobber and stupor

(01:05:05):
and Look at yourself.
Yeah, but if you don't havepeople around you, that will do
that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
enough to tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Well, the thing is, I pushed all those people away
because I didn't need to heartheir nonsense.
I wanted to do my deviantbehaviors.
I wanted to do those things inprivate and let nobody know
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Yep, yep, yeah, because you felt guilty.
You knew you were doingsomething that was not good for
you and I kept doing it becauseyou didn't yet, at the time,
want to put in the work, becauseit was actually harder, it was
actually easier to Drink orsmoke or to have the affair then
to actually sit down and do thework, is it?

(01:05:42):
You know?
Yeah, it's easier to dig a holedown than it is to climb up
that hole that brings me toanother idea of Everybody's
worst is the same feeling.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
So the worst thing that you've ever experienced is
the same feeling that somebodythat's experienced.
They're worst Can't comparethem though, yeah, but the
feeling is still the same, yeaheverybody's bottom is their
bottom.
Yeah, everybody's bottom istheir bottom, and so this is
something too kind of a thing.
That I've been saying is I'venot felt the worst thing that
I'm ever going to feel and I'venot felt the happiest I'll ever
feel.

(01:06:13):
I know that that's sittingright here right now.
There will be things that Iwill experience that are new,
that I've never experienced.
It will put me in a bottom thatwill put me down.
That'll bring me up.
I know that because it'sconstant.
Through my whole life I neverthought I would have an affair,
had an affair and put me in abottom.
It put me in such a deep bottom, but then I also thought that I
would never be an alcoholic.
That was another bottom.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
But now you know, now you have all of this experience
and you are takingaccountability for your actions,
and so I think maybe you don'tgive yourself enough credit,
because I don't think you willhit a bottom as bottom as you
did before, because I don'tthink you'll ever put yourself

(01:06:54):
into those positions.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
But there's also yes, you'll, you'll go down.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
Yeah, of course you'll go down, but I don't
think you'll ever go that fardown again, because you won't do
those things again and I'msaying even Things that are
similar to it.
You now know better.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I guess the assumption that I'm making is
that something unforeseen thatI've never considered.
Yeah and so that would be theonly and I'm not saying that, oh
, I'm expecting it to happen,but I just assume that that is
the case, so that I know thatalso keeps me available to Just
my pride.
That's another thing pride.
Yeah pride is a pride is amotherfucker man.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, and oh my god, likeanyway.

(01:07:34):
So if I allow myself to knowthat, like yeah, I'm gonna have
some bottoms right and I mightexperience something worse,
because how many times in mylife this is the worst thing
I've ever?

Speaker 2 (01:07:43):
experienced.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
This is so terrible.
I feel some blah, blah blah andthis and that, but Then I
experienced something worse andI'm just like mmm, maybe I
should quit saying that, maybe Ishould stop.
You know that hole it rains atpours, maybe.
I stop saying that this is theworst thing that could ever
happen to me.
And then, and then the universeis like you sure?

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Yeah, see it like I always Nowadays, any time
something negative comes to me,I tried to.
I try to find the silver lining.
Like I just got a bill and itwas nine hundred and ninety six
dollars for your taxes from lastyear that I didn't pay thing is
, as I did pay, I said certifiedmail, the check paid them the

(01:08:24):
money that I supposedly owed.
Well, apparently that checknever got there.
I, since I was like I was goingthrough so many things I had
just broken up with Tony or shehad broken up with me like I
didn't have checks, I had to goget just like three checks from
Wells Fargo I don't keep youknow Information or anything
like that.
So my mom, all she had was apicture of the certified mail,

(01:08:46):
but they didn't tell me thatthey received it.
So here's the bill, so I justpaid it.
I talked to my CPA and she justsays pay it, just pay it.
Okay, I'll just pay it.
Then I get another bill from mycourt case with Tony.
That was two years ago.
It just finally comes in.
So out of nowhere I have atwelve hundred dollar.
You know, downfall but, thenjust Christmas I got a twenty

(01:09:10):
five hundred dollar bonus.
Like what do you do?
It's just life.
Yeah, you know, shit happensand and I don't like it, I don't
want it.
But you know I started tellingmyself I'm abundant once.
I like I have never hit so farrock bottom on money, that I am
homeless.
Now I know other people can'tsay that I feel very fortunate

(01:09:32):
that I have.
Parents that will help me indire needs, and I have used that
resource before, of course, soI do have something that makes
me know that I do have a safetynet.
Not everybody has that, and Iwish our, our society would
provide more of a safety net,because if if we didn't, then I

(01:09:54):
would think that we want to havewhat we have?

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Well, maybe, and so think about it this way, though
think about even if you didn'thave your parents, you still may
not have ended up homeless likethis.
So, like me, like I, I did I'venever had that safety net.
I've never had something tofall back on, to that capacity.
I've never been homeless,though.
Yeah the thing is is like Ithink we allow ourselves to be

(01:10:16):
until we know we got it, we gotit, we got to get it right, it's
like, and so if we know thatthat safety net is there, it
gives us a little bit more roomwiggle room right, but it
doesn't mean that because, look,they're gonna get tired of
supporting it too.
Yeah, especially if you keepending up there and it's like
our dude like come on.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Why did debt consolidation?
Two years ago, I wasn't workingfor nine months and it was.
This was like right after COVIDduring COVID.
And I tried to do my lostconnection tarot thing and I
mean I still haven't gotten ridof it, I just don't do it
anymore.
I still love the idea.
I still love doing tarot, yeah,but you know I was trying to.

(01:10:55):
You know I wasn't teaching atthe time.
I was trying to do tarot but Iwasn't actively pursuing it.
I was just like the universewill provide and yeah, I wasn't
providing for myself andeventually we got so far in debt
.
I was just like I got to pullthe plug on this.
This so-called dream of justhoping the universe is gonna

(01:11:16):
feed me Put it in my mouthliterally in the middle of that
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
I was just thinking like, oh, I'm gonna will myself
into this situation and theuniverse will provide to me.
But here's the thing theuniverse might provide to me.
The thing is, what am I willingto put into it?
Yeah what am I willing to do tohave that the universe?

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
will meet you halfway , but you one, you have to be
like, you have to be so surelike this is where I want to go.
If you're hesitant, if you'reunsure, it's not going to
provide for you.
It's not gonna meet you halfwaybecause you yourself are unsure
.
So you're reflecting that tothe universe and the universe is
like I'm not unsure.

(01:11:55):
It's like are you look?

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
if I give you this, what are you gonna do with you?
You're just gonna stop like if.
I provide the universeresources to you to be there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
Yeah, you act like you care, but do you?

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
you're like what's in your heart and see that's the
thing that I've had to figureout, like with this.
The other thing is to when Istart trying to make money with
something, it taints it and Idon't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:15):
I said that's a battle that I've got to think of
we?

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
we have this horrible idea of money.
Like I just, I lambastedcapitalism earlier, but money is
simply energy, and energy isinfinite and energy cannot be
created nor destroyed.
It can only be transferred oraltered or changed, right?
So therefore, money is infinite.
We just don't have thatrelationship with money.
But we can create thatrelationship with money.

(01:12:40):
But we have to change our ideaof that.
I just watched a dude oninstagram.
You get, you know, so you winthe lottery right, you win the
lottery and you got 10 milliondollars.
And so you, they give you 10million dollars.
So you go and you put it in thebank right, 10 million dollars.
And the bank says it's going totake us two weeks to process

(01:13:03):
this, right.
And so for two weeks you don'thave 10 million dollars, but you
sure as hell believe you have10 million dollars.
So you're going around asabundant as fuck, being like I
can take this risk, I can dothat thing, don't worry about
those debts, I got you boo overthere, you know, drinks on me,

(01:13:25):
whatever.
And then you start saying yesto thing, you start seeing
possibilities, you startmanifesting even more because
you are in that abundant mindset, but you don't actually have
the money.
You just believe you do.
And that is what manifestationis when you have to have that
belief that it's there and ifyou hold on to that belief long

(01:13:46):
enough, then you will startcreating that abundance.
So you got to fake it till youmake it there's a counter to
that though.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Yeah, let's hear it.
Okay.
So if you are doing it tosatisfy something, that's just
your ego, right.
But here's the thing, thatabundance disappears, right?
So if, if you Believe that youhave this, like I'm so like my
last job that I got, I didn't golooking for it.
It found me, that was theuniverse and it was a job that I
wanted.
So bad, not that place that,but it was an idea that I'd

(01:14:15):
carry.
It's like, yeah, I'd be reallygreat at that kind of job.
And then a friend of mine got ajob at a company's like hey, bro
, you'd be perfect here when heain't got the interview killed,
it got the job, got paid morethan what I was going to ask for
yeah, perfect.
And then go through this wholething and then Having that
income now I became careless.

(01:14:37):
Right, I became like, but again,because now I'm stressed at
work, so I'm satisfying thestress at work instead of
dealing with what it is it'scausing the stress, or at home
or whatever, and so I'm spendingthe money right.
So now I'm losing the abundance.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
So when I was free thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
It came to me, but the moment that I put pressure
on it, the moment that it becamesomething to solve something
else, it was no longer abundance.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yeah, so I would go ahead.
No, I was gonna say maybe aftera period of time Did you feel
trapped within that job, like itwas creating your sustenance
instead of you were creatingyour sustenance yeah absolutely,
absolutely, did feel that way,and so then I decided that, oh,
once this job, I knew the jobwas ending.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
We'd made an agreement.
They were, you know, dealingwith bankruptcy and all that
stuff, and I'm like theycouldn't afford to keep me on
Because they weren't getting thejobs that they were and
whatever.
And so I decided that, okay, Ihad like two months left.
I was like I'm gonna do thiscoaching thing.
Yeah and then I started payingfor coaching so that I could
launch my business.
But I ran out of the job, ranout of the wife, ran out of the

(01:15:41):
money.
I I believe that I tried toforce something, thinking that
this was going to solve myproblems, and the universe was
like oh no bro.

Speaker 2 (01:15:50):
Yeah, hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Do you want to help people or do you want to make
money?
Because you can't choose to doboth.
Now they can serve each other.
Yeah, if you want to make money, you have to focus on making
the money Then.
Then I have the moral conflictof idolatry.
It's like if I value the moneymore than the relationships,
then morally I will feelterrible.

(01:16:11):
Yeah, because I've met way toomany people that value money
over their relationships andthey're all miserable.
Every single one of them aremiserable.
That's why I want to coach.
So why would I value the moneyover the relationship?
Why would I value how much I'mcharging somebody over that
whenever I really just want tohelp people?
So that's the conundrum that Iface.
That's the dual mind.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
All right, I, I run through that all the time.
Like you know, I like teaching.
I've been doing it for a longtime and I've contemplated going
back and getting my teachingcertification.
Because I had it right, I, I, Igot my certification, I went
through the courses right and Ipassed the test and Then I was

(01:16:51):
supposed to go get my studentteaching and my house burned
down before I went and got astudent teaching job.
So I went, I traveled and Iwent abroad and I lived and I
taught abroad, but I did it asesl.
I come back with seven years ofteaching Experience, right, and
I go and I get jobs, but I stilldon't have that teaching
certification, and so I can onlyget limited jobs and not all

(01:17:13):
the jobs.
Thing is is, I got 14 years ofteaching, I have already gone
through the curriculum, thepedagogy I've, I've, I've taken
the courses, I've passed thetest.
I simply don't have thecertificate.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
That's how I feel like my life is.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:28):
I don't have the piece of paper that supports it,
that opens the doors.
I have the experience, I havethe knowledge.
I've gone because I'm a selfteacher, like I get curious and
things and I learn.
I learn those things because Ireally I get obsessive let's be
real honest and and maybe it'sbecause I'm like autistic and
stuff like that, whatever but Ijust get so honed in and focused
on that's the only, like kidswith dinosaurs, like that's all

(01:17:50):
I care about yeah and so then,like for a long time it was
sports, for a long time it wasthis or that or whatever, and
then it became about thishealing thing, and then, and
that was like my focus, so I'veread all the books so many books
.
I never even read before.
Oh yeah, like I look, I Fromhigh school until probably three
or four years ago I read maybefive books.

(01:18:13):
Wow, I've read probably 30books in the past three years,
maybe more.
Wow and I'm a really good readernow, whereas before I struggled
to have dyslexia.
That's a muscle like anythingelse, absolutely and so it's
like I got so focused onsomething I didn't care what it
was gonna, what I had to do todo it.
I wanted to do it, and so thenI gained all this experience,

(01:18:33):
having these conversations andall these things.
I'm like, oh, my goodness, I'msupposed to help people, right.
So then I'm just like, oh, letme turn this into a business,
when in all reality, I don'tknow that that's how the
universe works.
I think the universe works islike, okay, you want to help
people?
Help people, let these otherthings happen the way that
they're supposed to.
So like, maybe I'm supposed togo to school, maybe I'm supposed

(01:18:55):
to whatever not supposed to.
Maybe I could go to school toget a Degree to be a therapist
or or whatever.
Maybe I could get thiscertification that would give me
this opportunity.
But the reality is, I think Ithink that that actually takes
away from the experience that Iactually have and I'm not saying
that it's negative to do that,but I'm not trying to do what

(01:19:16):
they're doing.
I'm not trying to do it the waythat they're, and maybe that's
me being foolish, but there'ssomething different about what
I'm doing than what I see othersdoing, and maybe that's a
judgment as well, and I don'tcare about all that necessarily.
But Every time I try to dothose things it's so much harder
Than what I'm willing to put into get out of it because it

(01:19:37):
doesn't serve me in a way that Iwant to.
I only like the information sothat I can use it.
I don't want to spend fouryears getting a degree to have a
job that I don't even know thatI want.
I just want to help people,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
Yep, I know that With that teaching certification you
know I'm already Helping people.
That certification literallyjust gives me the opportunity to
teach at more schools.
If I, let's say, I lose mycurrent job and it gives me a
little bit more money, and thenit just simply gives me the, the
Credit right, the, thevalidation that I am, this thing

(01:20:13):
, but it I, you know it's morelike, am I already satisfied?
And if I'm already satisfied,if I'm already content, then I
don't need that extra money.
Like I'm not, I'm not starving,like I'm not needing Anything,
what it?
And plus what is 183 extradollars a month going to do?
I can't go upgrade mynon-existent watch to a

(01:20:37):
non-existent Rolex watch With an183 extra a month.
You know what I mean.
Because, like, what you do isyou buy things and then you
Eventually, once you go up thepayroll, you just buy the same
shit, but now it's just moreexpensive.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
Right, I went through that the hard way.
I went through that the hardway, getting promotions and
stuff like that.
Oh, you buy a couch Okay, youget a promotion.
You get a nicer couch yeah, thedamn thing still sits the same.

Speaker 2 (01:21:01):
Yes, it still sits the same and holds ass the same
way.
Yeah, you got a fanciermicrowave, you got fancier
speakers and there's some value.
Yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
I'm not diminishing the quality.
What I'm saying is like it'sstill the same thing, though.
Yes, exactly, it's still thesame thing.
It's a couch holds ass.
That's what a couch does.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Okay, a car gets you from point a to point b.
And so you can do it in style,or you can do it just, you know,
casually, regularly, withoutPop and circumstance.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Oh, that makes me think.
So I've intentionally startedwalking with anything less than
two miles and so like I don'teven drive to those things
anymore.
I'll take my hiking backpackand I'll walk to wherever I'm
going.
Because Do I need a car?
Do I want a car?
Do I need to drive?
It's so like.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Texas will say, yes, they want you to have a car, but
I agree with you, it's notnecessary.
The thing is is you can alwaysmake do without as a teacher.
I know that, you know I learnedthat with David.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
That was one of my favorite things about David.
David showed me how to haveless and be okay with that,
because I was always just like,oh, I need this, I need that, I
need this and that.
David taught me how to justsleep on the floor with a wool
blanket.
Yeah, right, like just and I'mactually comfortable doing stuff
like that now, whereas Ithought that I needed all of
these things to be comfortable.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
It's like no, I just need to learn to be still.

Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
I just need to learn to not need these things.
Therefore, I'm not incessantlythinking that, oh, I need that,
I need that, I need that beappreciative of what you do have
.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
for example, I can't afford.
I mean, I don't want to use theword afford, I can afford it.
I don't have any room for newbooks, so I have no point to go
out and buy new books.
Do I want new books?
Of course I want to read newbooks, but I still have books I
have not read.
It's probably got libraries,bro, I know exactly, exactly,
but that's the thing.

(01:22:50):
If I want new information, Icould just go sit at Barnes and
Nobles for two hours or I couldgo to the library and rent one
out for free for free, for free,absolutely free.
So there's always a way to doless and more, but now it's like
a saddess symbol.
You look at social media.
People are going apeshit overthese Stanley cups.
I still Don't even.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
yeah, exactly, I don't even know I don't get it
and see the thing is, is I usedto be so like I would?
Brand conscious Well not evenso much brand constant.
I was so anti brand conscious.
Okay, so if somebody had abrand or something that they
really liked, I, on merit, didnot like it because so many
people liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
I've stopped doing that and I'm like it's like
music.
I used to hate pop musicbecause, oh, everybody's
listening to it, but now I justdecide if I like the song.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
Yeah, and you should.
You shouldn't judge.
Oh, I don't like this bandbecause my girlfriend doesn't
like this band.
I don't like this band becausemy best friend doesn't like this
band.
Life is too short to care whatother people think.
If you like that band, whocares that your friends, your
family, your boyfriend,girlfriend doesn't like it?
Listen to it, sing it, enjoy it?
Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
if you want to head bang at the stop light, head
bang at the stop light.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Who cares?

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
if the lady next to you thinks that that's devil
music the reality is you'revibing out with what you like.
Yes, and I think that this is.
We'll close out on this.
I get closer.
This is like the more that youdiscover the ways in which
you've been told to think andfeel and believe, the more that
you discover that, the more thatyou can start deciding.
Do I actually Do I actuallybelieve that, do I want to

(01:24:25):
believe that?
Like if you believe that allrepublicans are racist, why do
you believe that and do you wantto believe that?
Because if you do believe that,in my mind I think you want to
believe that, you want that tobe true, you want that to be the
case.
So therefore, you're justified.
But if you ask yourself do Ireally want to judge somebody

(01:24:45):
based upon something that I see?
Not that I know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:49):
Yeah Well, it's just an ideology.
It's an idea and the thing is,is you weren't?
You weren't republican democratGreen party independence.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
It didn't exist a thousand years ago.
Oh yeah, even as kids.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
We didn't care about this.
We just wanted to play and havefun.
And the thing is is you don'thave to care about it now.
You can care about sports for45 years, and then you can not
care about.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
That's been my experience.
I used to be so inundated withstuff and then I'm just like I
don't really care about thatstuff.
Yeah, like I like bass, I lovewatching baseball.
I'll go watch a baseball game,but I don't fall.
I used to watch every singlesports game that I could like.
Oh, I'm gonna catch this, I'mgonna catch that, I'm gonna
catch this, I'm gonna catch thatmade me really good at fantasy
sports because I love analyticsbut, I just decided like this is

(01:25:36):
just keeping me stuck righthere.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
You're not able to create in that moment, you're
simply consuming.
And that is what our wholeculture is, and I try to tell my
kids hey, why don't you createinstead of only consume?

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
I try to do that with my kids there, yeah, man, but
they fight back.
Yeah, well, they fight backbecause everybody else, all
their friends are doing thisstuff and it's easier.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
It is easier, just like it's easier to point
fingers, like it's easier tohate, it's easier to call names,
it's easier to blame, then totake accountability, then to
self reflect, then to Entertainyourself when you're bored.
Because what's the first thingwe do when we're bored?
We go when we tell someone orwe find the Clue, easiest
distraction we possibly can tosolve that boredom.

(01:26:19):
We don't try to create some newThing that would alleviate and
add value to our life.
We're just like get on my phonefor 35 minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
Imagine this and then we'll close that.
Imagine this you're made in theimage of the creator.
That doesn't mean you look likehim.
That means that the creatorcreates.
So guess what?
You're a creator to befulfilled, you have to create.
Yes, consumption is notcreation.
No, it's not.
And so, if there's anythingthat I could say to anyone, if

(01:26:49):
you want to live a happier life,start creating things, whether
it be conversations with people,whether it be pieces of art,
whether it be music, whether itbe Whatever you have to create
something.
You have to create somethingthat wasn't there before.
And, last thing, everythingthat exists was a thought.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
First, yes, it was everything was a thought first.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
So this is our imagination that has come to
life.

Speaker 2 (01:27:13):
Yeah, and it was all created by us, that's wild,
right it is, but I do.
When you think about this, it'scompletely fascinating and it
boggles my mind because you areliving in like a minecraft, like
we have self created this wholesociety, and then it's, it's
everything right, it's it'sManorisms, it's cultural.

(01:27:36):
You know, not appropriation,but just culture, like rituals,
things that we do, the ways thatwe express ourselves.
You know, it's just sofascinating.
I love, I love humans ingeneral.
Oh, me too, because I I.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
I used to think that I was different than humans, and
so I started reading books fromthe perspective of.
There's this one book, what wasit called?

Speaker 2 (01:27:56):
um.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
How like something hunting, like how to hunt a
human or something like that,and it was from the perspective
of the human as an animal andsomething was trying to track it
to be able to hunt it.
Interesting, blew my mind.
I'm like, oh man, I'm just likethat.
So anyways, ben, thank you forcoming on, man.
I'd love to absolutely have youon again.
Soon if you want to, but yeah,yeah yeah, absolutely have more

(01:28:21):
conversations, but, uh, we wentan hour, almost an hour and a
half, on.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
This is 128, an hour 28 impressive, and so how many
people will get all the way here?

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
Look, I'm gonna be honest with you, I think most
people.
I usually get like 30, 40downloads an episode and most of
them are listen-throughs.

Speaker 2 (01:28:36):
I mean one or two of them is mine.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
I'm a fan of what I create.

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Yeah, hey, so think of a creation.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
This right here, this is creation.
Think about being able to goand do something.
Think about being able to goand do something and make
something and to share withpeople that didn't exist before.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
That right there go do something.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Yeah, go do something .
I see your left hand a guitarover there.
I'll bring mine next time.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
Yeah, yeah, well jam.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
But uh, yeah, thanks for hopping on with me, ben, and
uh, and yeah, you have anythingyou want to share or say, or
promote or do anything at all.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
I mean, nah, just I appreciate Having me on, I've
enjoyed it.
I would love to come back.
Um, I do do lost connectiontarot.
You can come check it out rightnow.
It's completely Like dead, deadsilent.
It's there, it's there, and Ido have.
I have feelings about it and Iwant to do something with it.

(01:29:30):
Right now I still have friends.
I have friends.
I will call me and be like hey,help me with tarot.
I just simply don't charge forit.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Yeah, I mean, maybe you shouldn't.
Maybe you Doing it the way thatyou're doing it is actually
serving you in a way, becauseyou're serving your friends and
serving the people.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
All I want at the end of the day is to To help people
and I like doing it throughtarot or conversation or the
Socratic method or anything likethat, like I don't need your
money, I think it's all good.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):
All right, man.
Well, thank you again.
I love you, brother.
Thanks for coming on with me.
Appreciate it, daniel.

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