June 24, 2025 • 37 mins
Two people. Same background. Completely different digital realities. How?
In this episode, we unravel the invisible influence of algorithms and how personalized feeds quietly shape your worldview, reinforcing what you already believe and filtering out anything that challenges it.
From college debates that once built mental muscle to today’s one-tap echo chambers, we explore what we’ve lost—and how it affects everything from political polarization to your ability to handle conflict. One negotiation experiment reveals just how badly even seasoned leaders struggle when stripped of their usual power dynamics.
We also get real about digital media literacy. Deepfakes, out-of-context headlines, and AI-generated nonsense are everywhere. But are you prepared to tell the difference?
This episode is your wake-up call to question your feed, sharpen your critical thinking, and take back control of your digital life. Because your algorithm isn’t just feeding you content—it’s feeding you a version of reality.
Stay With Us
- Watch and Subscribe to The E Word on YouTube.
- Follow Karen on LinkedIn and learn more at Colossal Work.
- Follow Brittany on LinkedIn and learn more at BND Consulting Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Karen McFarlane (00:05):
okay for the audience.
We know we catch up a littlebit beforehand and we were just
talking about something veryfunny and yes negotiation if you
will.
Yes, exactly, but today we're,we're gonna I touch on some
(00:26):
really interesting, serious kindof topic.
Right, you want to introduce it, you want to introduce it.
Brittany S. Hale (00:34):
Yeah.
So to those listening, I'lljust preface this by saying I
was just scrolling through myfeed and I realized we're having
a conversation with someoneelse and we're just talking
about what we're seeing on thesame platform and I realized our
viewpoints are completelydifferent, despite having
(00:58):
similar interests, despitehaving similar backgrounds.
Having similar backgrounds,what our algorithms are feeding
us are completely different andwhat we are thinking about
(01:23):
wrestling with is so challenging.
I might get news cute animals,you know cooking, some more news
, some pop culture stuff youknow.
But even in the news, the waythat the news is shared, what we
consider to be factual, youknow, the perspectives of the
way that we're viewing the worldand engaging with the world, so
(01:48):
completely different.
Karen McFarlane (01:51):
I mean fair.
I mean it's really powered bywhat we press like on, how much
time we spend on something, andit's sometimes, you know,
something dramatic might catchmy eye and I end up watching it,
but that doesn't necessarilymean I want to keep seeing it.
But then it's fed to me and Ialways wonder, like what is that
(02:13):
doing to me?
A to reinforce, reinforcing thethings that I like, which, okay
, I love cute dogs and babies,right, um, but then also, when
you get a little bit moreserious than dogs and babies,
like it's probably reinforcingsome of the narratives that I
believe, but not necessarilyintroducing me to opposing point
(02:36):
of views for me to think morecritically about exactly and you
have to actively search thatstuff out.
And social media at least how Iuse it Right.
I like things given to me,right, yeah, so yeah, I mean
it's.
Brittany S. Hale (02:55):
It's the probably the most energy
efficient dopamine hit we canhave, and so I think there's
something to be said.
So, for example, I back when Iwas an undergrad.
We hosted a panel and I forgetthe topic, but I remember there
(03:19):
was an econ professor that we'dinvited on the panel and the way
that he saw the world was sodifferent than me and I remember
just boring holes into the sideof his head and I was just so
angry with him and looking backon it, I realized that that's
(03:42):
one.
Why colleges and universitiesare such a crucial space is
because you are introduced toideas that may brush up against
how you see the world.
Right to engage with my ownthought, question my own self,
(04:03):
my own worldview and ultimatelyI realized that I understood his
point.
I didn't agree, but I couldunderstand and I was able to
move out of that space ofemotion and ego.
Right, I'm just mad at him,right, and I'm just boring holes
(04:24):
into the side of his face.
How could this man say this?
How could this man understandthis?
And I was able to move into aspace to say, okay, well, if I
disagree, why and what facts doI have access to that supports
my own?
argument so maybe I'm just nowrealizing, maybe this is also
(04:47):
some of what led me into lawschool.
But because social media is somuch more salient now, I think
we get less of that.
Because you can block, you canquite literally say not
interested.
And I'm not saying that we needto understand or agree with
(05:08):
every view.
There are some views that arejust so abhorrent no, thank you.
Right.
But we don't get that as oftenbecause of how we receive
information.
Karen McFarlane (05:25):
You know absolutely and I think if you go
back so, like in high school,for example, of how we receive
information, absolutely.
And I think if you go back so,like in high school, for example
, you are told pretty much whatto think, or at least back when
I went to high school.
I think now some high schoolspromote more critical and
creative thinking, or at leastsome of the private schools do.
So.
(05:52):
You're told what to think andthen in college you are invited
to think.
And I used to say this and Istill believe this I don't think
that college is a place whereyou go to figure out what you
want to do in life at least notundergrad.
It is to think critically, tolearn how to think and learn how
to learn right.
And so you are given that safespace to explore the ideas, to
disagree, to come up with yourown theories, and that is a
(06:15):
really important aspect of howyou approach your career and
life.
And today it's even moreimportant because the world is
changing so dramatically interms of technology and
advancements that, beyondcertain professions, it's really
(06:36):
hard to skill specifically forone thing, and maybe also to
your detriment, to skillspecifically for one thing.
But I think the other thingthat has changed over the past,
you know, eight to 10 years orsomething is that people used to
(06:58):
be closer together I'mgeneralizing in their thinking.
Sure, I'm generalizing in theirthinking.
So your viewpoint might be hereand your viewpoint might be
over here, but you kind of metin the middle with some of those
things and it was clear to seehow you could do that.
It didn't feel as contentious asit does right now and I feel
(07:19):
like people are so far apartthat it is hard to bring them
back to the middle.
And social media doesn'tnecessarily help with that
because it's feeding that onepoint of view, whereas, you know
, I grew up in a very analogtime and you know television
(07:41):
before even cable, set amount ofchannels.
The news came on at a certaintime on a certain channel and
you watch that and you all,everyone got the same
information at the same time,right In, pretty much in the
same way.
How they receive it might be alittle bit different, but in the
(08:02):
same way, and that's how theworld was.
And then cable came on and thenyou had 24 hour news shows,
which I think also is similar tosocial media.
Brittany S. Hale (08:17):
Terrible for your nervous system.
No one needs news at 2am.
Karen McFarlane (08:21):
Exactly, and, of course, the newspapers were
very popular.
Right Again, another vehiclethat people got information the
same way, and it was a trustedsource.
And now social media opens upthe doors to I can't think of
the word, but like a multitudeof quote, unquote experts, and
(08:43):
it seems believable becausepeople are very focused on
getting their information inthis one way instead of what we
may traditionally call crediblesources.
And now the question ofcredibility has come up who's
credible and who's not?
Brittany S. Hale (08:59):
Yeah, and the ability to have nuance and
discourse around the nuance.
Karen McFarlane (09:06):
Yes.
Brittany S. Hale (09:06):
Because you now there's a check.
Our executive producer feelsshe feels very strongly about
this, so excuse her.
Karen McFarlane (09:19):
It's okay.
You don't usually listen to hervoice, I know, so this is a
welcome addition.
Brittany S. Hale (09:24):
Yes, she feels is a welcome addition.
Yes, she feels very stronglyabout it.
But you'd be able to havemoments where you could connect
and say okay, I don't agree withyou on these two points, but we
agree on six other points.
(09:45):
And therefore, there's enoughvalue in this relationship for
us to continue.
On social media, you can becanceled or unfollowed because
of misstating something,mistakenly misgendering someone,
which again, for depending onwhere you are and how you stay,
(10:11):
whatever it is right and there'sno room for, or there's less
room, I think for grace, becausenow you can say I don't have to
compromise with this person whodisagrees with me.
Now I need you to agree with meon all 10 points.
Karen McFarlane (10:34):
Yeah.
Brittany S. Hale (10:35):
And if you don't agree with me on all 10
points, you are the villain, youare the other, you are the
other, you are my adversary in away that is difficult to
maintain, because then you'reonly speaking, you're speaking
in an echo chamber and that youknow much used phrase.
(10:58):
You were quite literallypreaching to the choir, and then
where do we go from there?
Karen McFarlane (11:27):
had, like you said you had, you had to
compromise, and now you don't,because there's all these other
people that think like you.
So you must be right.
You can remain steadfast inyour position and you can be.
You can just totally beunmovable, and that's not
healthy, because that's not thereal world, because, regardless
of all these people out there inthe ether that agree with you,
(11:47):
they may not necessarily livenext door or go to your school
or be the people that you'regoing to work with.
That's your reality and there'sa mix of point of views and
experiences that you're closingyourself off from because you
are focused on your social echochamber, social media, echo
(12:08):
chamber, right, and it doesn'tinvite critical thinking.
You know I'll say you know Ineed to give an example, which
is going to be a silly example.
There's, you know listenersknow we love the Real Housewives
, right?
Yes, so you know you, youintroduced me to Reddit, which
I'm going to never forgive youfor.
You're welcome.
(12:31):
Because the problem is withReddit is that you know the
issues that I have, let's say,on Instagram.
I haven't been on TikTok in awhile because it really just
sucks my brain dry and I need togive it a little space.
Dry and I need to give it alittle space.
But the problem with Instagramis that I don't feel like
commenting on the things that Iwant to say, to counter
something or whatever.
It's just not the space.
(12:51):
But Reddit will give you thesafe space to do it the long
form response, long formeverything.
I'm just like.
Do that, right?
Great, it's very cathartic inthat way, but, right, you are
also forced to confront opposingpoints of views on what you're
talking about.
So the things that I mostlycomment on on Reddit are about
(13:14):
real housewives, and so that'spretty much exclusively what it
is, and so I have a point ofview about the housewives, or a
housewife that I believe, andthen something pops up about
so-and-so, whatever, and it'sthe opposite of my point of view
.
I click on it and I instantlyget angry, right, I'm mad that
(13:38):
they think differently than me,right, and I'm like that's so
dumb.
First of all, it's realHousewives.
Why are you getting mad?
But secondly, let me read thisthing and see why they think
differently about it.
I can agree or not agree.
Right, again, this is lowstakes because it's Real
(14:03):
Housewives, but it's also anindicator how I need to operate
for more serious topics.
Yes, right, so I need to beopen, which I am, I guess I'm
just very like specific aboutHousewives sometimes.
But you know, because it is lowstakes, I don't have to be open
.
But in life you need to be opento like why does that other
(14:26):
person think that way?
Where do they get that from?
Right, you have to say,although I don't agree.
But why?
Where is that coming from?
Brittany S. Hale (14:41):
Yeah, and this is the part that makes advocacy
, which many of us areintroduced to in these higher
education spaces or even in yourcommunity, right, there are
always going to be advocacygroups.
And advocacy groups don't onlyengage with one another, right?
(15:02):
They don't only engage with thepeople who agree with them,
right.
They don't only engage with thepeople who agree with them.
The real change happens whenthey engage and inform, and, at
times, persuade, people whoeither disagree or are
ill-informed.
That's how you build consensus.
(15:25):
Yeah, there's a.
Did you know, right?
What's important to you?
Let's prioritize what'simportant to you and let's
figure out how to work together.
And I think that's it's verydifficult.
And so, even with a Redditright, you can.
Even with a Reddit right, youcan.
(15:46):
You know, I, I, I live in thespace of conflict.
I don't I'm not sure why Ichose it, but I did.
But I'm fascinated because ofthe lack of self-awareness that
people have, and most peopledon't know how to argue, most
(16:07):
people don't know how todisagree, most people don't
understand how to engage inconflict in any way that is
productive, we push it away andwe'll say, oh, I don't agree
with them, they're blocked.
(16:29):
Agree with them, they're blocked.
So we don't get to question isthere a logical fallacy that
they're operating with?
Is this a straw man argument?
Are they truly arguing in goodfaith or are they and now we
have to deal with right?
Are they trolling?
Is this false information?
And the other issue with socialmedia that I see happening from
a generational perspective isthat we have older generations
that are more susceptible tomanipulation through social
(16:54):
media because they don't haveany sort of updated digital
media literacy.
Karen McFarlane (17:01):
Right.
Brittany S. Hale (17:02):
So you can put out a photo that's AI, you know
where the person has maybeeight fingers and they'll say,
oh my gosh, this is real, thisis happening.
You're like, ok, well, thisperson does it Notice that they
don't have a thing.
They don't have five fingerslike they normally do in these
(17:23):
Getty images.
Other things are happening.
This is actually not a realphoto, or the person that you're
arguing with is a bot, right,and it was quite literally
designed to stoke dissension andanger and all of these feelings
.
And I'm sure there are spaces,but I don't come across them
(17:48):
often.
So that's my own research thatI think I should do.
But my question is how can weincrease this?
How can we increase this medialiteracy for really every
generation?
Karen McFarlane (18:04):
I mean, it's a really great question because I
mean, just even adding to the AI, with eight fingers people can
just Photoshop existing things.
Things look real and you haveto always question is this real?
I find myself doing that allthe time.
Is this real, can I reallybelieve this story?
And we have to stop relying onclips of information.
(18:28):
We do need full context.
Right, we absolutely need fullcontext, and that's what's
missing from, you know, themajority of these dialogues is
where did this come from?
Really from, really right, andwhy did this person say this
(18:52):
thing?
And the why is big.
Right, it's not ourinterpretation of the why, it is
really the full context of thewhy.
And also citing sources,because one of the things that
social posts don't do well is,say, answering those questions.
They'll put up a you knowcontroversial quote, um, and you
know for for clicks andcomments.
(19:14):
They'll even, they may even saywho said it.
But can you find the source togo?
Validate your?
Validate yourself or the peoplewho are more intellectually
curious about the context?
Validate yourself or the peoplewho are more intellectually
curious about the context?
No, so the barrier is high onpurpose, right, and that's
(19:39):
what's very, very irritating.
And then it stokes thatconflict.
One thing that you've talkedabout conflict but I think the
other thing that I think peopledon't realize is that you know
they engage in conflict everysingle day.
It doesn't have to be right,negative or tense conflict.
Like you engage in conflictwith yourself, like what am I
going to do this morning?
Like you know or do you feelguilty about what you did or did
(20:01):
not do, and you negotiate thoseconversations with yourself and
even with a family member whatare we going to eat for dinner?
Those things are.
You're having a conversationabout what I should and what I
should not do and how to meet inthe middle, and so you are
practicing it.
You just don't know how toexternalize it and call it what
(20:23):
it is, because conflict isalways viewed as I'm fighting
with you about something right,like you've talked about.
It's a difference between whattwo people want, but it can also
be the difference between whatyou think you want and what you
should want for yourself as well.
Exactly, and if you kind ofreframe it, then you realize, oh
(20:43):
, I have some of these skillsright, I just need to
externalize them and deal withthem a little bit differently.
I think the part about conflictthat is truly challenging is
the conversation around it.
Right, so there's a conflictand there's a difficult
(21:04):
conversations, and that's peopleget uncomfortable, right, so
there's a conflict and there's adifficult conversations, and
that's where people getuncomfortable, right, um, and
they need to get morecomfortable with that, and also
people need to get reallycomfortable with that feedback.
So it's a give and take.
Like I had a conversation theother day someone reached out to
me and I didn't know them shedidn't know me, but we're in the
(21:26):
same organization and shewanted to ask me a question
about something I had done, butshe didn't know how to do it
because it was a conflict, okay,right, and she didn't know how
to do it, but I could tell thatshe wanted to ask me something.
Right, and she didn't know howto do it, but I could tell that
she wanted to ask me somethingand she was uncomfortable.
(21:48):
So I'm a person who I want youto ask me.
Let's deal with it.
And so I tried to create thespace for her to do it.
I tried to.
She doesn't know me, so giveher a little bit of my
personality in an open andfriendly way, and then, you know
, say, hey, you, you know.
(22:09):
So what is it you want to talkabout?
And she said you know, I reallydidn't know how to bring up
this conversation.
So she asked me the question,talked a little bit about she's
like I was really nervous aboutthe conversation, but you just
made it easy.
I'm like yeah, you know.
I was like yeah, I did it.
Okay, here's I did it.
Okay, here's why I did it,here's the context for why I did
it.
Right.
(22:30):
And you know what else I did.
I said, and I'm sorry if itcreated conflict for you, all
right, but let's try to solvethis together.
Right, I'll do this part,because this is what I did and I
can, I can correct that.
And then you do this part.
You know, and it could havebeen completely contentious,
(22:51):
right, you could have come indefensive.
Brittany S. Hale (22:54):
You could have just stonewalled and made it
difficult and shut down theopportunity to connect Right,
but you didn't, because you needto meet in the middle, right,
right, I know I do.
Karen McFarlane (23:07):
I said this other person, I had this phone
call with someone I want toresolve the conflict and they
were like no, it's not going towork because they're not going
to meet you, they're not goingto receive, and that was really
interesting too.
You have to like know your,your opposing party.
But all that to say, right,that the tricky part about
(23:28):
developing the media literacy isthat the feedback mechanism is
really not there.
Yes, you're really by yourselfin looking at the content and
trying to understand, understand, but you have to develop your
critical thinking skills andyour curiosity, which I know is
(23:52):
your favorite word right myfavorite values.
Hold up.
Is this all there is to this?
Should I do more, and should Ido more research or due
(24:13):
diligence before I repeat it orshare it?
And I'm talking about sharingit, like I know you're going to
share stuff with your friendsand family that you don't invent
and talk crap about it, right?
Brittany S. Hale (24:22):
Yeah, but strangers who follow you Exactly
, you have to be more thoughtful, totally.
You know, this past week I waswith a client on site and we
played a game I'm big in usingplay to teach lessons but I
(24:42):
split them in half.
I took half the people out ofthe room.
I split them in half.
I took half of the people outof the room and so the first
half.
You know, there are people theywere very proudly number ones
and they said you are going tomake a request and you are not
going to stop advocating forthat request until you get it.
(25:03):
I can do that.
I'm in the leadership role, Ican do it.
We're going the leadership role, I can do it.
I said fantastic.
Second group.
I said they're going to make arequest of you.
No matter what they request,you tell them yes, but there's
no way that's possible.
And you can use some iterationof it, but I always want you to
(25:25):
use yes, but but, when they hittheir peak and you will know
what that looks like Then I wantyou to switch to saying yes and
and add something on to theirrequest.
Mm, hmm the number of people whogot out of their seat, walked
away, slammed their pen down.
(25:47):
These are these are againcompletely hypothetical requests
.
It was up to them.
It could be.
I need your pen, or, karen, canyou give me a call?
Yes, but not today, that's notgoing to work.
Yes, but I don't really knowwhen we're gonna speak.
Yes, but my phone is broke.
Whatever, it is right and thegoal is to teach what resistance
(26:11):
feels like and looks like andwhat acceptance looks like,
because once they hit thatemotional peak where they just
they're completely frustrated,once the person turns to yes,
and some of them don't even wantwhat they were requesting
(26:34):
anymore, even though theperson's saying, yes, I can give
you a call and you know what,I'll come and see you and we'll
have lunch.
I don't want to go anymore.
They completely forgot theassignment and I just want us to
be mindful of what resistancelooks like, what we're resisting
(26:55):
against and acceptance and whatwe can accept, what it looks
like to accept something,because very often we can't keep
what our request is becausewe're so focused on the
resistance, we're so focused onour emotional uh, you know, lack
(27:15):
of emotional management, lackof emotional professionalism in
the moment, but some people wereso grateful for the yes and
because of all of the resistancethat they'd encountered up
until that point.
Karen McFarlane (27:35):
So interesting and I wonder if you know that
and I could.
I wonder if that's like alsobased on personality and,
obviously, experience, right?
So if you are so used togetting a no and you're used to
it and you expect it then youmight be more grateful for the
eventual yes and Right Versus ifyou're not used to getting it
(27:59):
right, that throws you in atizzy Yep, Right, and it doesn't
even matter if someone's goingto acquiesce later.
I just wonder like I feel likethere's so many layers there are
so many layers.
Brittany S. Hale (28:11):
I mean we could talk more about it, but
there are a lot of senior peoplewho were in the first group.
They were number one.
And they're so used to usingtheir seniority and their
experience and their leverage,and they know how.
I had one woman.
She said I always get what Iwant.
(28:32):
I know how to negotiate asalary.
I'm going to talk about salarybecause I know how to get a
salary and the situationalpositioning left her in her
version.
You you know, she feltpowerless yeah, that's, that's
pretty funny.
Karen McFarlane (28:51):
I took a um negotiation class and I kind of
signed up for it last minute.
So I was mortified to know thatI actually had to negotiate
with real people like every week.
It's like who knew?
I mean, it totally makes sense,but I obviously wasn't paying
attention.
So, um, but what wasinteresting is I walked in
(29:15):
thinking that I wasn't a goodnegotiator, right, so that was
my, that was my starting point.
And so, in thinking that, though, it made me very open to
learning how to be a betternegotiator and so it allowed me
to soak up the knowledge, andthen I had to actually practice
it, which was oddly nervewracking, because I'm like these
(29:40):
aren't real negotiations, butwhat we did know as students was
something similar to what youjust talked about is like these
aren't real negotiations, right,but what we did know as
students was something similarto what you just talked about is
like this is what you need toget out of it, right, you don't
know what the other person needsto get out of it, and there's
like point system and stuff likethat.
It enabled compromise, thoughto some degree, but then it also
(30:03):
talked about not just themechanics of negotiation but the
sentiments behind it, like thepersonality and why people do
what they do, and what Irealized is that that's where my
superpower lies.
Right, it's not in themechanics I get caught up in
that but it's more like ifpeople like you, generally
(30:25):
speaking right, you're morewilling to to help and reach a
compromise, whatever the casemay be, and so I would always
take some time to develop therapport first and then try to
get to where I needed to go.
You're a natural marketer.
Let me leave this Right.
Maybe that's it.
I don't think that I'm theprimo negotiator.
(30:47):
So you had some people, thoughthat just like that woman, right
.
Brittany S. Hale (30:51):
Yeah.
Karen McFarlane (30:51):
Boom, boom, boom and listen, in some cases
that works right, Because itdepends on what the goals are.
And, at the end of the day,what you actually just you said
was you have to focus on whatyou need to achieve and take the
emotions out of it.
So even in my building arapport, I'm actually building
(31:12):
emotions into it, right?
And sometimes emotions need tobe taken completely out of it,
right?
So you focus on the core thing.
So, yeah, it's an interestinginterpersonal dynamic it is.
Brittany S. Hale (31:31):
It is I, um, the next time I see you we'll
we'll have to figure out somesort of situation for it to make
sense to play, because I'mendlessly fascinated by creating
these environments to examinehuman behavior.
Karen McFarlane (31:52):
But you can also see it, though, in social
right.
So when you're commenting andpeople are going back and forth,
that is their attempt tonegotiate a new way of thinking
Correct or a new way forthinking Correct.
Brittany S. Hale (32:04):
And most times or a new way for you to
entertain them.
Karen McFarlane (32:09):
To give the feedback.
To give the feedback.
Brittany S. Hale (32:11):
To say, depending on how they're looking
at it, the value that you'reproviding.
Karen McFarlane (32:15):
If you're informing them.
Brittany S. Hale (32:16):
They now say okay, well, I would like for you
to inform me this way, or Iwould like for you to speak
about these things specificallyYep, it is a means of
entertainment.
I need for you to talk about xpart of your life.
I need for you to show us thisright.
Karen McFarlane (32:32):
And so we, we're increasingly voyeuristic
yeah while also beingincreasingly disconnected, which
is so interesting right yeah,tell me everything about your
life while I hide behind thisrandom exactly and say all sorts
(32:52):
of things about your lifewithout full, again, without
full context context yes, yes,don't make it too long.
Brittany S. Hale (32:59):
In 10 minutes or less, tell me everything that
I need to know about yeah, andyou know it.
Karen McFarlane (33:05):
Interesting, particularly in the comments,
right, when I'm not caught up,sometimes I'm just sitting there
.
I'm like, wait a second, how doyou know that?
How do you random commenterknow more about that situation
than I do?
(33:25):
Right, and sometimes I will saysomething like you know, I'm
like that's, you know, I don'tknow intriguing or maybe even
salacious, right, and I'm like,oh, is that true?
Right, and then I go searchingbecause I want more information
in depth, right, and I can'tfind it.
Because I want more informationin depth, right, and I can't
find it.
Or I find something and it'spretty pedestrian, right, it's
(33:50):
not really what they said.
I'm like, ugh, right, so that'snot really true.
But this post has like a zillioncomments on it and people are
like just blowing that up andit's just perpetuating the
narrative, and it actually makesme think of the whole Hollywood
controversy with the movie this.
(34:12):
This ends with us.
It ends with us with BlakeLively and and for the listeners
, you know.
So what's alleged is that, youknow, baldoni's group went on a
smear campaign in social mediato smear Blake Lively, and I
don't know if that's true or not.
However, I see how easily itcould happen because you just
(34:36):
place these things with theright people and nobody goes any
deeper than what's right infront of them.
Wow, I don't know how youcounter that and I just I think
that social media is for lack ofa better term it's just making
us dumber.
(34:56):
I don't want to call peopledumb, I really don't, but I'm
just.
I know for me, um, that when Igo deeper, I learned so much
more, and when I don't, I reallyknow nothing Right, and
(35:16):
unfortunately, a lot of peopleare getting their information
just from that one source.
I mean, in school we're taughtto, we're taught to cite various
different sources, that's true,and then we don't.
Brittany S. Hale (35:32):
Oh, my goodness Well.
Karen McFarlane (35:35):
We haven't solved the media literacy
problem.
Brittany S. Hale (35:38):
Not yet.
We're close, I mean we toldpeople what to do.
We did, we did.
I just need to provide somesources.
Oh, there you go.
They should just listen to us.
But if you're interested.
We are a great starting point,I must say.
Karen McFarlane (35:55):
We are, but we also provide continued learning
resources for every episode, soyou can dive deeper into what
we're saying and formulate yourown opinion.
Very true, yeah, so we practicewhat we preach right mina, we
preach, she's much moresatisfied she was not in the
(36:21):
director's seat right that.
That was the problem.
Brittany S. Hale (36:24):
That was my mistake To listeners.
My apologies.
I did not have her in herdirector's chair and for that I
apologize.
There we go.
Karen McFarlane (36:34):
Let me know for next time.
Alright, brittany, until nexttime, bye, bye.
okay for the audience.
We know we catch up a littlebit beforehand and we were just
talking about something veryfunny and yes negotiation if you
will.
Yes, exactly, but today we're,we're gonna I touch on some
(00:26):
really interesting, serious kindof topic.
Right, you want to introduce it, you want to introduce it.
Brittany S. Hale (00:34):
Yeah.
So to those listening, I'lljust preface this by saying I
was just scrolling through myfeed and I realized we're having
a conversation with someoneelse and we're just talking
about what we're seeing on thesame platform and I realized our
viewpoints are completelydifferent, despite having
(00:58):
similar interests, despitehaving similar backgrounds.
Having similar backgrounds,what our algorithms are feeding
us are completely different andwhat we are thinking about
(01:23):
wrestling with is so challenging.
I might get news cute animals,you know cooking, some more news
, some pop culture stuff youknow.
But even in the news, the waythat the news is shared, what we
consider to be factual, youknow, the perspectives of the
way that we're viewing the worldand engaging with the world, so
(01:48):
completely different.
Karen McFarlane (01:51):
I mean fair.
I mean it's really powered bywhat we press like on, how much
time we spend on something, andit's sometimes, you know,
something dramatic might catchmy eye and I end up watching it,
but that doesn't necessarilymean I want to keep seeing it.
But then it's fed to me and Ialways wonder, like what is that
(02:13):
doing to me?
A to reinforce, reinforcing thethings that I like, which, okay
, I love cute dogs and babies,right, um, but then also, when
you get a little bit moreserious than dogs and babies,
like it's probably reinforcingsome of the narratives that I
believe, but not necessarilyintroducing me to opposing point
(02:36):
of views for me to think morecritically about exactly and you
have to actively search thatstuff out.
And social media at least how Iuse it Right.
I like things given to me,right, yeah, so yeah, I mean
it's.
Brittany S. Hale (02:55):
It's the probably the most energy
efficient dopamine hit we canhave, and so I think there's
something to be said.
So, for example, I back when Iwas an undergrad.
We hosted a panel and I forgetthe topic, but I remember there
(03:19):
was an econ professor that we'dinvited on the panel and the way
that he saw the world was sodifferent than me and I remember
just boring holes into the sideof his head and I was just so
angry with him and looking backon it, I realized that that's
(03:42):
one.
Why colleges and universitiesare such a crucial space is
because you are introduced toideas that may brush up against
how you see the world.
Right to engage with my ownthought, question my own self,
(04:03):
my own worldview and ultimatelyI realized that I understood his
point.
I didn't agree, but I couldunderstand and I was able to
move out of that space ofemotion and ego.
Right, I'm just mad at him,right, and I'm just boring holes
(04:24):
into the side of his face.
How could this man say this?
How could this man understandthis?
And I was able to move into aspace to say, okay, well, if I
disagree, why and what facts doI have access to that supports
my own?
argument so maybe I'm just nowrealizing, maybe this is also
(04:47):
some of what led me into lawschool.
But because social media is somuch more salient now, I think
we get less of that.
Because you can block, you canquite literally say not
interested.
And I'm not saying that we needto understand or agree with
(05:08):
every view.
There are some views that arejust so abhorrent no, thank you.
Right.
But we don't get that as oftenbecause of how we receive
information.
Karen McFarlane (05:25):
You know absolutely and I think if you go
back so, like in high school,for example, of how we receive
information, absolutely.
And I think if you go back so,like in high school, for example
, you are told pretty much whatto think, or at least back when
I went to high school.
I think now some high schoolspromote more critical and
creative thinking, or at leastsome of the private schools do.
So.
(05:52):
You're told what to think andthen in college you are invited
to think.
And I used to say this and Istill believe this I don't think
that college is a place whereyou go to figure out what you
want to do in life at least notundergrad.
It is to think critically, tolearn how to think and learn how
to learn right.
And so you are given that safespace to explore the ideas, to
disagree, to come up with yourown theories, and that is a
(06:15):
really important aspect of howyou approach your career and
life.
And today it's even moreimportant because the world is
changing so dramatically interms of technology and
advancements that, beyondcertain professions, it's really
(06:36):
hard to skill specifically forone thing, and maybe also to
your detriment, to skillspecifically for one thing.
But I think the other thingthat has changed over the past,
you know, eight to 10 years orsomething is that people used to
(06:58):
be closer together I'mgeneralizing in their thinking.
Sure, I'm generalizing in theirthinking.
So your viewpoint might be hereand your viewpoint might be
over here, but you kind of metin the middle with some of those
things and it was clear to seehow you could do that.
It didn't feel as contentious asit does right now and I feel
(07:19):
like people are so far apartthat it is hard to bring them
back to the middle.
And social media doesn'tnecessarily help with that
because it's feeding that onepoint of view, whereas, you know
, I grew up in a very analogtime and you know television
(07:41):
before even cable, set amount ofchannels.
The news came on at a certaintime on a certain channel and
you watch that and you all,everyone got the same
information at the same time,right In, pretty much in the
same way.
How they receive it might be alittle bit different, but in the
(08:02):
same way, and that's how theworld was.
And then cable came on and thenyou had 24 hour news shows,
which I think also is similar tosocial media.
Brittany S. Hale (08:17):
Terrible for your nervous system.
No one needs news at 2am.
Karen McFarlane (08:21):
Exactly, and, of course, the newspapers were
very popular.
Right Again, another vehiclethat people got information the
same way, and it was a trustedsource.
And now social media opens upthe doors to I can't think of
the word, but like a multitudeof quote, unquote experts, and
(08:43):
it seems believable becausepeople are very focused on
getting their information inthis one way instead of what we
may traditionally call crediblesources.
And now the question ofcredibility has come up who's
credible and who's not?
Brittany S. Hale (08:59):
Yeah, and the ability to have nuance and
discourse around the nuance.
Karen McFarlane (09:06):
Yes.
Brittany S. Hale (09:06):
Because you now there's a check.
Our executive producer feelsshe feels very strongly about
this, so excuse her.
Karen McFarlane (09:19):
It's okay.
You don't usually listen to hervoice, I know, so this is a
welcome addition.
Brittany S. Hale (09:24):
Yes, she feels is a welcome addition.
Yes, she feels very stronglyabout it.
But you'd be able to havemoments where you could connect
and say okay, I don't agree withyou on these two points, but we
agree on six other points.
(09:45):
And therefore, there's enoughvalue in this relationship for
us to continue.
On social media, you can becanceled or unfollowed because
of misstating something,mistakenly misgendering someone,
which again, for depending onwhere you are and how you stay,
(10:11):
whatever it is right and there'sno room for, or there's less
room, I think for grace, becausenow you can say I don't have to
compromise with this person whodisagrees with me.
Now I need you to agree with meon all 10 points.
Karen McFarlane (10:34):
Yeah.
Brittany S. Hale (10:35):
And if you don't agree with me on all 10
points, you are the villain, youare the other, you are the
other, you are my adversary in away that is difficult to
maintain, because then you'reonly speaking, you're speaking
in an echo chamber and that youknow much used phrase.
(10:58):
You were quite literallypreaching to the choir, and then
where do we go from there?
Karen McFarlane (11:27):
had, like you said you had, you had to
compromise, and now you don't,because there's all these other
people that think like you.
So you must be right.
You can remain steadfast inyour position and you can be.
You can just totally beunmovable, and that's not
healthy, because that's not thereal world, because, regardless
of all these people out there inthe ether that agree with you,
(11:47):
they may not necessarily livenext door or go to your school
or be the people that you'regoing to work with.
That's your reality and there'sa mix of point of views and
experiences that you're closingyourself off from because you
are focused on your social echochamber, social media, echo
(12:08):
chamber, right, and it doesn'tinvite critical thinking.
You know I'll say you know Ineed to give an example, which
is going to be a silly example.
There's, you know listenersknow we love the Real Housewives
, right?
Yes, so you know you, youintroduced me to Reddit, which
I'm going to never forgive youfor.
You're welcome.
(12:31):
Because the problem is withReddit is that you know the
issues that I have, let's say,on Instagram.
I haven't been on TikTok in awhile because it really just
sucks my brain dry and I need togive it a little space.
Dry and I need to give it alittle space.
But the problem with Instagramis that I don't feel like
commenting on the things that Iwant to say, to counter
something or whatever.
It's just not the space.
(12:51):
But Reddit will give you thesafe space to do it the long
form response, long formeverything.
I'm just like.
Do that, right?
Great, it's very cathartic inthat way, but, right, you are
also forced to confront opposingpoints of views on what you're
talking about.
So the things that I mostlycomment on on Reddit are about
(13:14):
real housewives, and so that'spretty much exclusively what it
is, and so I have a point ofview about the housewives, or a
housewife that I believe, andthen something pops up about
so-and-so, whatever, and it'sthe opposite of my point of view
.
I click on it and I instantlyget angry, right, I'm mad that
(13:38):
they think differently than me,right, and I'm like that's so
dumb.
First of all, it's realHousewives.
Why are you getting mad?
But secondly, let me read thisthing and see why they think
differently about it.
I can agree or not agree.
Right, again, this is lowstakes because it's Real
(14:03):
Housewives, but it's also anindicator how I need to operate
for more serious topics.
Yes, right, so I need to beopen, which I am, I guess I'm
just very like specific aboutHousewives sometimes.
But you know, because it is lowstakes, I don't have to be open
.
But in life you need to be opento like why does that other
(14:26):
person think that way?
Where do they get that from?
Right, you have to say,although I don't agree.
But why?
Where is that coming from?
Brittany S. Hale (14:41):
Yeah, and this is the part that makes advocacy
, which many of us areintroduced to in these higher
education spaces or even in yourcommunity, right, there are
always going to be advocacygroups.
And advocacy groups don't onlyengage with one another, right?
(15:02):
They don't only engage with thepeople who agree with them,
right.
They don't only engage with thepeople who agree with them.
The real change happens whenthey engage and inform, and, at
times, persuade, people whoeither disagree or are
ill-informed.
That's how you build consensus.
(15:25):
Yeah, there's a.
Did you know, right?
What's important to you?
Let's prioritize what'simportant to you and let's
figure out how to work together.
And I think that's it's verydifficult.
And so, even with a Redditright, you can.
Even with a Reddit right, youcan.
(15:46):
You know, I, I, I live in thespace of conflict.
I don't I'm not sure why Ichose it, but I did.
But I'm fascinated because ofthe lack of self-awareness that
people have, and most peopledon't know how to argue, most
(16:07):
people don't know how todisagree, most people don't
understand how to engage inconflict in any way that is
productive, we push it away andwe'll say, oh, I don't agree
with them, they're blocked.
(16:29):
Agree with them, they're blocked.
So we don't get to question isthere a logical fallacy that
they're operating with?
Is this a straw man argument?
Are they truly arguing in goodfaith or are they and now we
have to deal with right?
Are they trolling?
Is this false information?
And the other issue with socialmedia that I see happening from
a generational perspective isthat we have older generations
that are more susceptible tomanipulation through social
(16:54):
media because they don't haveany sort of updated digital
media literacy.
Karen McFarlane (17:01):
Right.
Brittany S. Hale (17:02):
So you can put out a photo that's AI, you know
where the person has maybeeight fingers and they'll say,
oh my gosh, this is real, thisis happening.
You're like, ok, well, thisperson does it Notice that they
don't have a thing.
They don't have five fingerslike they normally do in these
(17:23):
Getty images.
Other things are happening.
This is actually not a realphoto, or the person that you're
arguing with is a bot, right,and it was quite literally
designed to stoke dissension andanger and all of these feelings
.
And I'm sure there are spaces,but I don't come across them
(17:48):
often.
So that's my own research thatI think I should do.
But my question is how can weincrease this?
How can we increase this medialiteracy for really every
generation?
Karen McFarlane (18:04):
I mean, it's a really great question because I
mean, just even adding to the AI, with eight fingers people can
just Photoshop existing things.
Things look real and you haveto always question is this real?
I find myself doing that allthe time.
Is this real, can I reallybelieve this story?
And we have to stop relying onclips of information.
(18:28):
We do need full context.
Right, we absolutely need fullcontext, and that's what's
missing from, you know, themajority of these dialogues is
where did this come from?
Really from, really right, andwhy did this person say this
(18:52):
thing?
And the why is big.
Right, it's not ourinterpretation of the why, it is
really the full context of thewhy.
And also citing sources,because one of the things that
social posts don't do well is,say, answering those questions.
They'll put up a you knowcontroversial quote, um, and you
know for for clicks andcomments.
(19:14):
They'll even, they may even saywho said it.
But can you find the source togo?
Validate your?
Validate yourself or the peoplewho are more intellectually
curious about the context?
Validate yourself or the peoplewho are more intellectually
curious about the context?
No, so the barrier is high onpurpose, right, and that's
(19:39):
what's very, very irritating.
And then it stokes thatconflict.
One thing that you've talkedabout conflict but I think the
other thing that I think peopledon't realize is that you know
they engage in conflict everysingle day.
It doesn't have to be right,negative or tense conflict.
Like you engage in conflictwith yourself, like what am I
going to do this morning?
Like you know or do you feelguilty about what you did or did
(20:01):
not do, and you negotiate thoseconversations with yourself and
even with a family member whatare we going to eat for dinner?
Those things are.
You're having a conversationabout what I should and what I
should not do and how to meet inthe middle, and so you are
practicing it.
You just don't know how toexternalize it and call it what
(20:23):
it is, because conflict isalways viewed as I'm fighting
with you about something right,like you've talked about.
It's a difference between whattwo people want, but it can also
be the difference between whatyou think you want and what you
should want for yourself as well.
Exactly, and if you kind ofreframe it, then you realize, oh
(20:43):
, I have some of these skillsright, I just need to
externalize them and deal withthem a little bit differently.
I think the part about conflictthat is truly challenging is
the conversation around it.
Right, so there's a conflictand there's a difficult
(21:04):
conversations, and that's peopleget uncomfortable, right, so
there's a conflict and there's adifficult conversations, and
that's where people getuncomfortable, right, um, and
they need to get morecomfortable with that, and also
people need to get reallycomfortable with that feedback.
So it's a give and take.
Like I had a conversation theother day someone reached out to
me and I didn't know them shedidn't know me, but we're in the
(21:26):
same organization and shewanted to ask me a question
about something I had done, butshe didn't know how to do it
because it was a conflict, okay,right, and she didn't know how
to do it, but I could tell thatshe wanted to ask me something.
Right, and she didn't know howto do it, but I could tell that
she wanted to ask me somethingand she was uncomfortable.
(21:48):
So I'm a person who I want youto ask me.
Let's deal with it.
And so I tried to create thespace for her to do it.
I tried to.
She doesn't know me, so giveher a little bit of my
personality in an open andfriendly way, and then, you know
, say, hey, you, you know.
(22:09):
So what is it you want to talkabout?
And she said you know, I reallydidn't know how to bring up
this conversation.
So she asked me the question,talked a little bit about she's
like I was really nervous aboutthe conversation, but you just
made it easy.
I'm like yeah, you know.
I was like yeah, I did it.
Okay, here's I did it.
Okay, here's why I did it,here's the context for why I did
it.
Right.
(22:30):
And you know what else I did.
I said, and I'm sorry if itcreated conflict for you, all
right, but let's try to solvethis together.
Right, I'll do this part,because this is what I did and I
can, I can correct that.
And then you do this part.
You know, and it could havebeen completely contentious,
(22:51):
right, you could have come indefensive.
Brittany S. Hale (22:54):
You could have just stonewalled and made it
difficult and shut down theopportunity to connect Right,
but you didn't, because you needto meet in the middle, right,
right, I know I do.
Karen McFarlane (23:07):
I said this other person, I had this phone
call with someone I want toresolve the conflict and they
were like no, it's not going towork because they're not going
to meet you, they're not goingto receive, and that was really
interesting too.
You have to like know your,your opposing party.
But all that to say, right,that the tricky part about
(23:28):
developing the media literacy isthat the feedback mechanism is
really not there.
Yes, you're really by yourselfin looking at the content and
trying to understand, understand, but you have to develop your
critical thinking skills andyour curiosity, which I know is
(23:52):
your favorite word right myfavorite values.
Hold up.
Is this all there is to this?
Should I do more, and should Ido more research or due
(24:13):
diligence before I repeat it orshare it?
And I'm talking about sharingit, like I know you're going to
share stuff with your friendsand family that you don't invent
and talk crap about it, right?
Brittany S. Hale (24:22):
Yeah, but strangers who follow you Exactly
, you have to be more thoughtful, totally.
You know, this past week I waswith a client on site and we
played a game I'm big in usingplay to teach lessons but I
(24:42):
split them in half.
I took half the people out ofthe room.
I split them in half.
I took half of the people outof the room and so the first
half.
You know, there are people theywere very proudly number ones
and they said you are going tomake a request and you are not
going to stop advocating forthat request until you get it.
(25:03):
I can do that.
I'm in the leadership role, Ican do it.
We're going the leadership role, I can do it.
I said fantastic.
Second group.
I said they're going to make arequest of you.
No matter what they request,you tell them yes, but there's
no way that's possible.
And you can use some iterationof it, but I always want you to
(25:25):
use yes, but but, when they hittheir peak and you will know
what that looks like Then I wantyou to switch to saying yes and
and add something on to theirrequest.
Mm, hmm the number of people whogot out of their seat, walked
away, slammed their pen down.
(25:47):
These are these are againcompletely hypothetical requests
.
It was up to them.
It could be.
I need your pen, or, karen, canyou give me a call?
Yes, but not today, that's notgoing to work.
Yes, but I don't really knowwhen we're gonna speak.
Yes, but my phone is broke.
Whatever, it is right and thegoal is to teach what resistance
(26:11):
feels like and looks like andwhat acceptance looks like,
because once they hit thatemotional peak where they just
they're completely frustrated,once the person turns to yes,
and some of them don't even wantwhat they were requesting
(26:34):
anymore, even though theperson's saying, yes, I can give
you a call and you know what,I'll come and see you and we'll
have lunch.
I don't want to go anymore.
They completely forgot theassignment and I just want us to
be mindful of what resistancelooks like, what we're resisting
(26:55):
against and acceptance and whatwe can accept, what it looks
like to accept something,because very often we can't keep
what our request is becausewe're so focused on the
resistance, we're so focused onour emotional uh, you know, lack
(27:15):
of emotional management, lackof emotional professionalism in
the moment, but some people wereso grateful for the yes and
because of all of the resistancethat they'd encountered up
until that point.
Karen McFarlane (27:35):
So interesting and I wonder if you know that
and I could.
I wonder if that's like alsobased on personality and,
obviously, experience, right?
So if you are so used togetting a no and you're used to
it and you expect it then youmight be more grateful for the
eventual yes and Right Versus ifyou're not used to getting it
(27:59):
right, that throws you in atizzy Yep, Right, and it doesn't
even matter if someone's goingto acquiesce later.
I just wonder like I feel likethere's so many layers there are
so many layers.
Brittany S. Hale (28:11):
I mean we could talk more about it, but
there are a lot of senior peoplewho were in the first group.
They were number one.
And they're so used to usingtheir seniority and their
experience and their leverage,and they know how.
I had one woman.
She said I always get what Iwant.
(28:32):
I know how to negotiate asalary.
I'm going to talk about salarybecause I know how to get a
salary and the situationalpositioning left her in her
version.
You you know, she feltpowerless yeah, that's, that's
pretty funny.
Karen McFarlane (28:51):
I took a um negotiation class and I kind of
signed up for it last minute.
So I was mortified to know thatI actually had to negotiate
with real people like every week.
It's like who knew?
I mean, it totally makes sense,but I obviously wasn't paying
attention.
So, um, but what wasinteresting is I walked in
(29:15):
thinking that I wasn't a goodnegotiator, right, so that was
my, that was my starting point.
And so, in thinking that, though, it made me very open to
learning how to be a betternegotiator and so it allowed me
to soak up the knowledge, andthen I had to actually practice
it, which was oddly nervewracking, because I'm like these
(29:40):
aren't real negotiations, butwhat we did know as students was
something similar to what youjust talked about is like these
aren't real negotiations, right,but what we did know as
students was something similarto what you just talked about is
like this is what you need toget out of it, right, you don't
know what the other person needsto get out of it, and there's
like point system and stuff likethat.
It enabled compromise, thoughto some degree, but then it also
(30:03):
talked about not just themechanics of negotiation but the
sentiments behind it, like thepersonality and why people do
what they do, and what Irealized is that that's where my
superpower lies.
Right, it's not in themechanics I get caught up in
that but it's more like ifpeople like you, generally
(30:25):
speaking right, you're morewilling to to help and reach a
compromise, whatever the casemay be, and so I would always
take some time to develop therapport first and then try to
get to where I needed to go.
You're a natural marketer.
Let me leave this Right.
Maybe that's it.
I don't think that I'm theprimo negotiator.
(30:47):
So you had some people, thoughthat just like that woman, right
.
Brittany S. Hale (30:51):
Yeah.
Karen McFarlane (30:51):
Boom, boom, boom and listen, in some cases
that works right, Because itdepends on what the goals are.
And, at the end of the day,what you actually just you said
was you have to focus on whatyou need to achieve and take the
emotions out of it.
So even in my building arapport, I'm actually building
(31:12):
emotions into it, right?
And sometimes emotions need tobe taken completely out of it,
right?
So you focus on the core thing.
So, yeah, it's an interestinginterpersonal dynamic it is.
Brittany S. Hale (31:31):
It is I, um, the next time I see you we'll
we'll have to figure out somesort of situation for it to make
sense to play, because I'mendlessly fascinated by creating
these environments to examinehuman behavior.
Karen McFarlane (31:52):
But you can also see it, though, in social
right.
So when you're commenting andpeople are going back and forth,
that is their attempt tonegotiate a new way of thinking
Correct or a new way forthinking Correct.
Brittany S. Hale (32:04):
And most times or a new way for you to
entertain them.
Karen McFarlane (32:09):
To give the feedback.
To give the feedback.
Brittany S. Hale (32:11):
To say, depending on how they're looking
at it, the value that you'reproviding.
Karen McFarlane (32:15):
If you're informing them.
Brittany S. Hale (32:16):
They now say okay, well, I would like for you
to inform me this way, or Iwould like for you to speak
about these things specificallyYep, it is a means of
entertainment.
I need for you to talk about xpart of your life.
I need for you to show us thisright.
Karen McFarlane (32:32):
And so we, we're increasingly voyeuristic
yeah while also beingincreasingly disconnected, which
is so interesting right yeah,tell me everything about your
life while I hide behind thisrandom exactly and say all sorts
(32:52):
of things about your lifewithout full, again, without
full context context yes, yes,don't make it too long.
Brittany S. Hale (32:59):
In 10 minutes or less, tell me everything that
I need to know about yeah, andyou know it.
Karen McFarlane (33:05):
Interesting, particularly in the comments,
right, when I'm not caught up,sometimes I'm just sitting there
.
I'm like, wait a second, how doyou know that?
How do you random commenterknow more about that situation
than I do?
(33:25):
Right, and sometimes I will saysomething like you know, I'm
like that's, you know, I don'tknow intriguing or maybe even
salacious, right, and I'm like,oh, is that true?
Right, and then I go searchingbecause I want more information
in depth, right, and I can'tfind it.
Because I want more informationin depth, right, and I can't
find it.
Or I find something and it'spretty pedestrian, right, it's
(33:50):
not really what they said.
I'm like, ugh, right, so that'snot really true.
But this post has like a zillioncomments on it and people are
like just blowing that up andit's just perpetuating the
narrative, and it actually makesme think of the whole Hollywood
controversy with the movie this.
(34:12):
This ends with us.
It ends with us with BlakeLively and and for the listeners
, you know.
So what's alleged is that, youknow, baldoni's group went on a
smear campaign in social mediato smear Blake Lively, and I
don't know if that's true or not.
However, I see how easily itcould happen because you just
(34:36):
place these things with theright people and nobody goes any
deeper than what's right infront of them.
Wow, I don't know how youcounter that and I just I think
that social media is for lack ofa better term it's just making
us dumber.
(34:56):
I don't want to call peopledumb, I really don't, but I'm
just.
I know for me, um, that when Igo deeper, I learned so much
more, and when I don't, I reallyknow nothing Right, and
(35:16):
unfortunately, a lot of peopleare getting their information
just from that one source.
I mean, in school we're taughtto, we're taught to cite various
different sources, that's true,and then we don't.
Brittany S. Hale (35:32):
Oh, my goodness Well.
Karen McFarlane (35:35):
We haven't solved the media literacy
problem.
Brittany S. Hale (35:38):
Not yet.
We're close, I mean we toldpeople what to do.
We did, we did.
I just need to provide somesources.
Oh, there you go.
They should just listen to us.
But if you're interested.
We are a great starting point,I must say.
Karen McFarlane (35:55):
We are, but we also provide continued learning
resources for every episode, soyou can dive deeper into what
we're saying and formulate yourown opinion.
Very true, yeah, so we practicewhat we preach right mina, we
preach, she's much moresatisfied she was not in the
(36:21):
director's seat right that.
That was the problem.
Brittany S. Hale (36:24):
That was my mistake To listeners.
My apologies.
I did not have her in herdirector's chair and for that I
apologize.
There we go.
Karen McFarlane (36:34):
Let me know for next time.
Alright, brittany, until nexttime, bye, bye.
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