November 1, 2024 • 39 mins
This episode unpacks monumental moments like Mexico's inaugural woman president and the significance of a mixed-race Black woman running for the U.S. presidency. The challenges faced by political figures like Kamala Harris are front and center, as Karen & Brittany tackle perceptions and the crucial role of shared democratic responsibilities. They discuss the complex interplay of gender, race, and age in politics, spotlighting the hurdles women of color face in leadership and the tension between hyper-individualism and collective interests, especially within the Black community, where political views can spark familial strife, even among MAGA supporters. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of how personal identity and politics are inextricably linked, urging us to connect over shared values while embracing our diverse perspectives.
CONTINUING EDUCATION
- Kamala Harris is being held to the same old double standard (The Conversation)
- Harris’ Fox News interview revealed an ugly double standard in the media (MSNBC)
- Why are Black men mad at Obama? (Brookings)
- The State of Black Women Leadership Is In Danger (NonProfit Quarterly)
- When an organization is failing, Black women leaders are evaluated more negatively than Black men, white women or white men. (Harvard)
Stay With Us
- Watch and Subscribe to The E Word on YouTube.
- Follow Karen on LinkedIn and learn more at Colossal Work.
- Follow Brittany on LinkedIn and learn more at BND Consulting Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Karen McFarlane (00:01):
Hey, brittany, we're back, we're back.
Brittany S. Hale (00:04):
Hi Karen, how are you?
Karen McFarlane (00:05):
Hi, I'm good, but I really should ask how are
you?
Because you have a new addition.
Brittany S. Hale (00:12):
I do have a new addition.
I don't know if you saw thefluff.
She's so cute.
Hi, Mina.
She's like pushing, she's likeI want to lay back again.
Karen McFarlane (00:22):
For those of you listening, listening
Brittany has a new dog, I suredo yes what kind of dog she's a.
Brittany S. Hale (00:31):
Pomeranian.
She's an AKC champion, so weare we're retiring, you know.
We said well, we have a podcastwith two highly awarded brown
ladies on here.
Why not add a third right?
Karen McFarlane (00:50):
I mean it is a very pretty shade of brown with
some brown highlights here andthere and that cute bow on her
head.
You're literally holding herlike a baby, Like that is so
cute.
Brittany S. Hale (00:58):
She refuses to be held any other way.
I didn't start it, but she justleans a certain way and I'm
just trying to make hercomfortable.
Karen McFarlane (01:09):
Well, welcome, mina, to the show, to the E-Word
, and we welcome your thoughts.
Brittany S. Hale (01:17):
She'll tell me I'll translate for her.
Karen McFarlane (01:23):
We got to get the dogs together, mina and
marley.
That'll be so cute.
Oh my gosh that will be supercute in the meantime, you know
what's going on in the world.
Brittany S. Hale (01:36):
Britney we are incredibly close to the
election in the united states.
If if you're listeningelsewhere, I think you know I
hate to sound so provincial,especially being an American,
but I do think the world iswatching with bated breath
because you know, we recentlyMexico recently welcomed its
(02:00):
first woman president, which wasincredibly exciting.
And I'm hoping that the UnitedStates will follow suit, but it
is a remarkably close race andthis is, you know, one for the
books.
I think the first time aconvicted felon is running for
(02:23):
president 34 times convicted.
Karen McFarlane (02:30):
Correct, correct.
Brittany S. Hale (02:32):
This is the first time a mixed race black
woman is running.
Of course, shirley Chisholm ranfor the president of the United
States before, but yeah, soit's a lot of firsts happening
and so, uh, you know, I'vedabbled in politics in my life
and so I said you know I'm justgonna go back to to doing phone
(02:55):
banking and canvassing.
and for those of you who areunfamiliar with phone banking,
people who are registered voterswill receive phone calls and
you know talk to them aboutwhat's important to them, what
they, what the pressing issuesare for them, and you encourage
them to vote.
And if they have questionsabout ballots, you know voter
(03:20):
registration where to go.
You're provided with tools.
It's actually really cool.
So back in the day, back in myday, you had to go to a
centralized location, but nowthere's technology that you can
use so you can do it remotelyright, because elections were
(03:41):
still happening during thepandemic and we still wanted to
engage people.
So you can do it from thecomfort of your home and you
know, chat with folks.
So I've I've done somescreening calls, so I'm dying to
hear what the content of someof those calls are of some of
(04:06):
those calls are.
I will say, when I first startedmy business and I, it was the
first time that I really had toengage with sales and I listened
to it.
I want to.
Maybe it was a Ted talk, butthere was a.
There was a guy who wasdescribing how he got over his
fear of rejection and he wouldmake an ask, an incredible ask,
(04:28):
of someone every day.
So he would go into a store andmaybe say hey, can I have my
groceries for?
free.
Someone would say no, say hey,can I have this stamp for free?
Most of the time people wouldsay no and he would make these
incredible asks so that he couldprepare to be an incredible
salesperson and learn how todeal with the nose so for
(04:53):
anybody who's listening, whowants to get into sales.
I recommend you do that, and ordo some phone banking.
Karen McFarlane (05:04):
Okay banking.
Brittany S. Hale (05:15):
Okay.
The level of vitriol thatpeople feel comfortable having
on the phone with a completestranger is shocking to me.
Karen McFarlane (05:20):
Well, I know we're not getting into the
content yet, but to theirdefense, you're calling them out
the blue, I'm calling them.
Brittany S. Hale (05:28):
I introduce myself and be clear.
You know why I'm calling andyou know there are some people
who are just happy to have aconversation and that's awesome.
And sometimes you know they'veturned it around and said you
know, are you going to vote?
Why are you going to vote?
What's important to you?
And you know I share a littlebit about my story, but it's
(05:50):
also it's a time for us toconnect as humans, but also as
Americans.
Right, this is An effort to bepatriotic, but but yeah, I get
it.
You know, sometimes it can beannoying if you think it's a
telemarketer.
Karen McFarlane (06:08):
You know, but uh yeah, so tell me about one of
the phone calls that was uminteresting there was one woman
who you know.
Brittany S. Hale (06:21):
She said I it's none of your gd business
who I'm voting for.
Okay, they said okay, that'scompletely fair.
You know, I just want to makesure you have all the
information about yourrespective voting polls and you
know where to go on election day.
And she just went on a tirade.
(06:43):
You know, she was very clear.
She looks at a lot ofconspiracy posts on Facebook,
but I had someone else say youknow, I don't want to hear
anything about Kamala Harris.
She's completely unfit.
I actually got you know someonesaying that she was a DEI hire
(07:07):
which I thought was interestingand I said oh wow, what does
that mean to you, Right?
What is a DEI hire?
I haven't heard of that.
I have not heard anyone inperson speak about a
(07:44):
presidential candidate being aDEI hire and being in one of the
highest levels of electedoffice as a DEI hire.
So I just said what does thatlook like she's absolutely not
qualified.
Oh, what are the qualifications?
Karen McFarlane (07:52):
I love that.
I love that.
Brittany S. Hale (07:57):
You know me, I'm always going to lead with
curiosity.
It's entirely possible thatpeople have access to facts and
information that I do not.
It just wasn't in this case.
So, but I think you know Iwould love for media literacy to
(08:19):
be a required course for peopleto take all throughout their
formative years.
I mean, you should start inelementary school, all the way
through to high school, and itshould be required in college as
well in my opinion.
Karen McFarlane (08:37):
First of all, I am in wonderment that you could
go through these phone calls Iknow you've probably done a ton
of these phone calls and keepyour composure with some of
these people who are, you know,making wild claims like she's a
DEI hire for them to kind ofthink, slow down and hopefully
(09:11):
think about whatever stereotypesthat they are, that they have
towards Kamala Harris or evenDonald Trump I mean either one
right, sure, and I think that'sreally important to do, and
again, kudos to you for doingthat.
That's really important to do,and again, kudos to you for
doing that.
I'm wondering.
Well, I always wonder, I guessI always wonder.
(09:31):
I'm always wondering whatpeople are thinking when they're
making these decisions, howinformed they are, how much you
know.
They go out and they read and,like you say, how much, how
literate are they in thesetopics?
Right?
And this past week we heardPresident Obama talk about some
of those preconceived notionsthat people have about Vice
(09:54):
President Harris as a person ofcolor and her record, and also
speaking directly toparticularly Black men about
their preconceived notions.
And there was some mixedreaction in the media on the
(10:15):
news media and also in socialmedia around that Some for it,
some against it, right, and Ithought that was first of all.
I thought he was very, verybrave in some sense, but it's
President Obama, so he, in myview, has earned the right to
(10:36):
speak directly to certainaudiences.
Right, he is a Black manspeaking to a Black man about,
you know, historicalindifferences and things like
that.
And for me, as a Black woman, Iwas happy that he said what he
said, because it needed to besaid.
People who raised up against itwere of varying backgrounds,
(11:04):
right, but I was paying moreclose attention to the Black men
and women, right.
What were your takeaways?
Brittany S. Hale (11:13):
from what he was saying for those who maybe
hadn't seen it.
Karen McFarlane (11:20):
He basically was saying that, hey, black men,
right.
Basically, you need to put yourtrust into Vice President
Harris right, as a Black woman,as a qualified Black woman, and
(11:41):
remove these notions that Blackwomen in general, right, aren't
qualified.
That's based on some historicalnonsense.
Go research and read about herrecord, because if you're
standing on this concept thatshe does not support Black men
(12:03):
and all she did was lock upBlack men, go learn about what
she really has done.
Don't feed into the oppositenarrative.
And also, you need to vote forsomeone who is for you, not
against you, and has proven thatthe other side, in his view,
has demonstrated that they donot support Black men, black
(12:30):
people in general, butparticularly Black men and so if
you stay home, you are votingfor the other side.
If you vote for the other side,obviously you're voting for the
other side and you need to putyour support in your people.
That was my takeaway from it.
What about you?
Did you get a different take?
You always have a differentperspective.
Brittany S. Hale (12:48):
Yeah, so I he seemed more frustrated than I
think I've ever seen him when itcomes to public speaking.
Of course, I think he's one of,if not the best orator we've
had in our time, and I feltchastened when I was watching,
(13:11):
right, I felt like, oh, you know, I'm glad that I'm not in
trouble, but I he seemed totease out what the underlying
issue could be, which ismisogyny, right, and it's that,
you know, like you said, thatquestion of asking people why
(13:37):
they are not in favor of her andto truly, truly challenge that.
And so we see so many calls forcivility right now.
I think that's the new buzzwordfor the end of 2024, into 2025.
(13:57):
But I wish that it would becuriosity instead, because it's
difficult to be civil with a lie.
How do you civilly engage withlies, especially when they can
do massive harm to large groupsof people?
(14:17):
I agree, but I wonder if you'reable to be curious and, to your
point, ask hey, where'd you getyour information from?
What's happening there?
Did you know that this is thetruth?
Then it allows for you to kindof peel back these layers so
that we can look nakedly atwhat's happening.
Karen McFarlane (14:40):
I agree, and I think we also have to all
recognize people and talk aboutpolicy and demonstrate who she
(15:12):
is and her personality, becausethat's the ground she has to
make up so people can get toknow her.
And, just like I said to you, Igive you kudos for having those
conversations in the face offalsehoods, right, and trying to
remain curious.
She has to do that also right,with all of this vitriol that's
(15:36):
happening around her, which youknow could really just take up
most of her time.
Right, and do this amazingbalancing act that the other
side doesn't have to do.
They're focused on one thing.
It's interesting.
I was talking to a friend theother day, and she lives in
(16:00):
North Carolina and she said youknow, the ads that are coming
out by Kamala Harris have gottenvery aggressive over the past
couple of weeks, straight outlike attack ads, right, and she
(16:22):
was bothered by that.
Interesting.
That is so interesting.
I mean, I'm I'm not seeing themas much here in new york, you
know, or, or there's a balanceand I'm actually more
comfortable, probably, with thatright.
Then, say, someone from thesouth who really leans more into
that, into civility, right, interms of the culture in general,
(16:45):
right.
And so, like I said, she wasreally bothered that this, this
shift, had happened and I waslike, wow, is that a cultural
thing?
One, two, is it reallyhappening that their shift has
to happen?
And three, well, it probablyhas to happen because of, again,
all the vitriol that has beenspewed.
(17:06):
So we don't recognize thedeafness at which she and her
team are operating and give hercredit for that.
Brittany S. Hale (17:19):
She's still on par because it's very close, as
you said, with the other sideand that is crazy to women that
she thought it was unseemly forher as a woman to be aggressive,
(17:48):
or perceived as aggressive,versus her being assertive and
truly not only defending herself, but speaking in furtherance of
what her mission is going to be.
Karen McFarlane (18:02):
It's a great question and I did not ask her
that, if I'm being honest, and Ithink I didn't ask her because
I made an assumption about it,right, which is that it's rooted
in part in gender and in partin race, right, because we've
talked about that on manyoccasions.
(18:22):
How you know, there's just adifferent behavioral way that
Southern Blacks and particularlySouthern female Black people
operate because of thehistorical context.
(18:43):
Female Black people operatebecause of the historical
context, and I've alsoseparately, you know, in talking
to other people, I get labeledin some ways as I don't like to
use the term aggressive becausethey don't mean it in that way,
but I can't think of a betterterm right now but more
aggressive by people from theSouth because I'm from the North
(19:07):
, right, and that I might not beas well favored in the way that
I operate.
Brittany S. Hale (19:14):
Yeah, yeah.
There's a directness.
That happens and there's.
So it's really an amalgamationof things.
Right, there's race, there'sgender, there's age, right are
like.
You know it's about time sheneeds to, you know she needs of
(19:35):
take the gloves off.
There are others for whomthat's not palatable, especially
(20:12):
because they see all of theother aspects of her identity as
negative, right and no matterwhere you are.
Karen McFarlane (20:19):
You know, being like taking the gloves off from
a female perspective is notquote unquote normal right.
It is seen as something otherthan when men do it.
So she's battling all of these,you know, gender stereotypes
and biases, right and again, ontop of everything else, and not
(20:43):
getting credit for that in ameaningful way, which bothers me
to my core.
And then, on the other hand,you have what I loved seeing was
President Obama, as a Blackmale, advocating for her as a
(21:03):
Black woman or mixed race womanand outlining the reasons why we
should vote for her.
That is not often something yousee right, so when you see it,
it's very powerful Right, rightand Right.
(21:25):
And we listen to Obama for themost part because he is our icon
.
And what also was superupsetting on the socials for me
was the amount and level ofdisrespect given to President
Obama for simply speaking hismind.
Given to President Obama forsimply speaking his mind.
(21:48):
He was losing credit orcredibility in certain people's
eyes, despite the fact that hehas made history in the history
of this country as being thefirst Black president.
And you still have peoplespewing.
What did he do for the country?
What did he do for Black people?
Well, go read first of all.
Yeah, okay, let's just startthere, read and interpret.
(22:09):
Right?
But if you're mad that he'ssaying this, that might require
some self-reflection, right?
But everyone here, no matteryour race, creed, color,
whatever, has an opportunity tomake history.
The fact of the matter is well,I was going to say okay, I'm
(22:34):
still going to say it.
The fact of the matter iseither person can be president.
One person was already.
Despite their, in my view,unqualifications, either one can
be president, either one is youknow, and that's the case.
One of them is going to bepresident.
Yeah, regardless.
Right, you have a moment tomake history, not only for
(22:59):
people of color, but for women,right?
And so what is your?
Brittany S. Hale (23:08):
choice going to be.
We've all known a woman.
Karen McFarlane (23:10):
We've all come from a woman, exactly.
You can't live on this earthwithout women, right?
So what is your choice going tobe?
Are you going to seize thismoment to make history I was
going to say all things beingequal I don't believe all things
are equal, but let's just say,in certain people's minds, all
(23:32):
things are equal, right or areyou just going to live with the
status quo?
You have to push yourself outof the comfort zone to enact
change.
So we're going to do what wehave always done change.
So we're going to do what wehave always done, yeah.
Or are we going to do somethingmeaningful to this country and
to people who have beenhistorically underrepresented,
(23:52):
and that's.
Let me just be clear when I saythat, right, that is not being a
DEI hire.
Since we came up with that,since we came up with the term,
that is not being it.
Kamala Harris is well qualified, perhaps overqualified, for
doing this job and she has shown, even in these last few months
(24:17):
but she's vice president and shehas a long historical career,
right, but even in these lastfew months how she can pull
people together, galvanizepeople, share her message and
lead, and do that while doingher vice presidency job.
Oh my gosh, we didn't evenmention that.
(24:39):
She's still vice presidentRight.
Brittany S. Hale (24:42):
And this is also a moment for us all to
reflect and remember that beingvice president does not mean
that you get to usurp the powerof the president.
For those people who are saying, and what has she done?
Why didn't she do all of thesepolicies?
You know she's been vicepresident for the past few years
.
It's just that is not how itworks.
You know, against schoolhouserock.
(25:03):
You know just basic civicslesson.
But I have two questions foryou.
So first, you brought upsomething that I think is really
important, which is there's acost that comes with allyship
and I think most people so.
You know President Obama'scredibility taking a hit because
(25:26):
he's, you know, sticking hisneck out for a candidate he
believes in.
And I, despite what we, what weprofess, I think there's been a
shift away from patriotism andthis kind of collective interest
(25:46):
into hyper individualism wheresomeone would say, well, if it's
not going to benefit him, thenhe shouldn't do anything.
And I think a lot of us havethis idea of oh, if I'm an ally,
you know it may not go in myfavor, but I would posit,
there's a cost either way, andfailing or opting out of being
(26:14):
an ally in this instance doesn'tguarantee your protection in
the next.
That's correct.
You know, and I say that becauseI was having a conversation
with a friend who is a blackmale and he said you know this
election he himself, he does notidentify as very political and
(26:37):
my argument is your veryexistence, your ability to
navigate this world, is, in andof itself, political.
You have children.
Yep, you have unambiguouslyblack children.
There are politics to youridentity.
(26:58):
There are politics to you know,nevertheless to your identity,
their politics to you know,nevertheless.
He mentioned and for those whoare listening, who may not be
Black, american or who may say,oh okay, maybe this conversation
doesn't affect me Black peopleare not a monolith, they never
have been.
But he is experiencingfractures within his own family,
(27:22):
right, because he has familymembers who are MAGA and, as
bizarre as that is for me, it'slargely due to rampant
misinformation.
And for someone like him who'slike I'm not really political.
(27:43):
You allow for thatmisinformation to spread and
take root and take hold to thepoint where now you have these
fissures and cracks in yourfamily, to the point where you
have to ask yourself, okay, well, now you have.
What do you want the world tolook like for your children?
(28:04):
And is your family member notsimilarly invested in that
future for your children?
That's their family.
Karen McFarlane (28:15):
Right, that's an excellent point.
I mean, when I I had thisthought briefly, it was so brief
, but it was a thought, I haveto admit to it that, uh, when
you know, with womenreproductive rights on the line,
my immediate thought was, thankgoodness I have a son, Right.
(28:37):
And then it was like Right.
And then I was like but itdoesn't end there, right,
(28:58):
because maybe one day he'll getmarried, right, and so.
And then I have a goddaughter,and my goddaughter has a
daughter, you know, and I havecousins that are female, like it
.
It doesn't just stop with mylittle nuclear family.
And so, to your point right, weare in charge of the future and
(29:25):
we can't just stand by on thesidelines and just focus on
ourselves.
Because even if you're focusedon your family which is where
people obviously will start itgrows, right, it has a domino
effect.
It has an effect on yourfriends, right, it has a domino
effect.
It has an effect on yourfriends, right, and their
(29:46):
families, right.
So it doesn't actually ever end.
And so we have to be futureforward thinking and think about
the collective.
And, yeah, it's like you said,it's going to have an effect
either way.
So what side of history do youwant to be on?
You know, I am fearful.
(30:10):
Just even.
Let's focus on reproductiverights.
Like every time this topic comesup, my mind goes straight to
the handmaid's tale.
I don't know if everyone'swatched that.
Straight to the Handmaid's Tale.
I don't know if everyone'swatched that, but it's a very
deeply disturbing.
It's a book series and alsoI've watched a television series
(30:30):
on Hulu about, basically, atthe stroke of a pen for the new
law.
Right, women lost all theirrights and it created this.
What do you call it?
This, I don't know the word,but this weird kind of
misogynistic society, right,where women were, you know,
(30:55):
reduced to childbears, servantsand wives and subject to abuse,
lost all of their ability toagain own property or earn wages
, et cetera, and it was based ona law that men enacted and it
(31:17):
took place relatively overnight.
Right.
Brittany S. Hale (31:22):
In reality kind of gradual because, if I
remember correctly, she cameinto work and they needed her
husband on her bank accountsomething to that effect.
And then she went to go get herbirth control and her husband
(31:43):
had to sign off and they thoughtthis is odd, but okay, and she
was very fortunate in that shehad a husband right, who was
completely like huh, this is oddbut sure, right.
And then her coming in andfinding all the women had been
(32:04):
laid off right right, it's crazy.
Karen McFarlane (32:09):
Yeah, you're right, it was gradual, but I
don't know why I startedwatching it.
Brittany S. Hale (32:13):
No, but it was literally overnight, right like
she goes in the next day andhas no.
That was it right you are nolonger employed.
Karen McFarlane (32:22):
And then she was running for her life with
her child, right.
It was this new prison that shewould be in, and it just it
feels very modern day, right,and it feels like in some ways,
it's happening Right, much moreslowly than it happened in this
television show, but stillhappening.
(32:44):
And that's just one example,right, of how these laws are
shaping our society and ourpersonal freedoms and why we
have to be active allies in it,right, day after day after day.
Brittany S. Hale (33:04):
You bring up a great point.
Even just that sigh of reliefto say thank goodness I have a
son.
But you also reflected on thatthought.
Many people do not.
They just say, thank goodness,it's not a problem, the end.
They're not thinking abouttheir son's potential partner in
(33:28):
life, you know, their wife oryou know, whatever, they're not
thinking past that point.
They're thinking you know, Iwill run for shelter, run for a
protector and that'll be enough.
(33:48):
And that is again the cost ofallyship, because for the people
who are supposed to be theprotectors to assume the
responsibility, there's a costthere and there as well.
I just saw an interview withvice presidential candidate
Jamie Vance and he wasdiscussing how his wife attends
(34:15):
mass with him, even though sheis Hindu and he is Catholic.
And he said you know, she hasthree kids and he's Catholic.
And he said you know, she hasthree kids and he's speaking
conversationally, but it struckme because I said, no, you both
me, right, you have three kidsalongside.
(34:35):
But he's just listing howuncomfortable it is for her and
how challenging it is for her,and he's like her and he's like
you know it's every sunday andyou know she, she goes to mass
and I mean you know she's gotthree kids and it was just like
a very depersonalized response.
That I thought was odd.
(34:57):
But, um, but we're starting toask different questions, which
allows us to peek into the, tothe marketing of this idyllic
nuclear home.
That's a fairly recent fantasy.
Karen McFarlane (35:15):
Yeah, right.
Brittany S. Hale (35:19):
This is a marketing push.
Karen McFarlane (35:22):
Well, look, I don't know anything about that,
because they didn't show us asnuclear families.
They still don't show us asnuclear families, fair.
So that idyllic life, and thatwas tough yeah exactly.
You had my little kids?
Yeah, in more recent times,yeah, but they still like.
(35:45):
There's this controversy rightnow with Heinz right that showed
this Heinz UK that basicallyshowed an ad with a Black bride
and other white people at thetable and her black mother, but
no black father right, and sothere's uproar about that and
(36:06):
how that they, you know, againleaning into the stereotype of
an absentee father.
And so, although we see some ofthese images on television and
film, and there is, you know, anactive push, there's still look
, we're not all the same rightthere's still going to be
(36:26):
remnants of these stereotypes aspart of the lexicon of society.
Even when and I have to beclear about that even when you
have those groups involved,right, it doesn't mean that, hey
, put some Black people onsomething and those stereotypes
are going to go away, becausethey're so ingrained in our
(36:51):
society that even we as theaffected group might think them,
but have to follow your rule ofcuriosity, right, and ask
ourselves why do we think thatand what can that lead to,
(37:11):
positive or negative?
So there's a lot ofself-reflection that has to be
done each and every time, whichis work.
Brittany S. Hale (37:22):
It's work.
It's a lot of work.
Karen McFarlane (37:25):
Yeah, but it can become more natural if you
lean into having a growthmindset, right, which is all
about curiosity.
So you're always questioningthings, you're always
questioning yourself, right, andyou're always wanting to learn
how to be better.
So at first it will beuncomfortable because it's not
(37:46):
your natural position, but asyou continue to do it, you build
that discipline and it becomesnatural over time.
Brittany S. Hale (37:54):
Yes, and if you need a selfish reason
neuroplasticity right.
Your ability to continue todevelop new neural pathways and
continue to learn helps you asyou age.
So for those listening, forwhom you know allyship and
patriotism and you know thecollective common good is not
(38:17):
enough.
You can stave off mouth.
You can stave off thesedeleterious effects of aging
mentally by continuing to learncontinuing to question.
Karen McFarlane (38:35):
I love that.
I love that.
I'm hoping that Mina learnedsome stuff from this too, right
she?
Brittany S. Hale (38:37):
learned a lot.
I thought she was sleeping butshe's wide awake.
Okay, Mina, we put you to sleep, Right?
I was trying to kind of rockbut she's like been staring at
me Like I think theneuroplasticity was her addition
to the show.
I tried to take credit for it.
Karen McFarlane (38:55):
Awesome.
Well, I always learn somethingfrom you, Brittany.
Brittany S. Hale (39:01):
So you're going to keep me ageless, okay.
Absolutely.
I mean, you have plenty ofmelanin to go around, so that's
also going to help a whole lotLove it All.
Karen McFarlane (39:13):
right, until next time, see ya.
Hey, brittany, we're back, we're back.
Brittany S. Hale (00:04):
Hi Karen, how are you?
Karen McFarlane (00:05):
Hi, I'm good, but I really should ask how are
you?
Because you have a new addition.
Brittany S. Hale (00:12):
I do have a new addition.
I don't know if you saw thefluff.
She's so cute.
Hi, Mina.
She's like pushing, she's likeI want to lay back again.
Karen McFarlane (00:22):
For those of you listening, listening
Brittany has a new dog, I suredo yes what kind of dog she's a.
Brittany S. Hale (00:31):
Pomeranian.
She's an AKC champion, so weare we're retiring, you know.
We said well, we have a podcastwith two highly awarded brown
ladies on here.
Why not add a third right?
Karen McFarlane (00:50):
I mean it is a very pretty shade of brown with
some brown highlights here andthere and that cute bow on her
head.
You're literally holding herlike a baby, Like that is so
cute.
Brittany S. Hale (00:58):
She refuses to be held any other way.
I didn't start it, but she justleans a certain way and I'm
just trying to make hercomfortable.
Karen McFarlane (01:09):
Well, welcome, mina, to the show, to the E-Word
, and we welcome your thoughts.
Brittany S. Hale (01:17):
She'll tell me I'll translate for her.
Karen McFarlane (01:23):
We got to get the dogs together, mina and
marley.
That'll be so cute.
Oh my gosh that will be supercute in the meantime, you know
what's going on in the world.
Brittany S. Hale (01:36):
Britney we are incredibly close to the
election in the united states.
If if you're listeningelsewhere, I think you know I
hate to sound so provincial,especially being an American,
but I do think the world iswatching with bated breath
because you know, we recentlyMexico recently welcomed its
(02:00):
first woman president, which wasincredibly exciting.
And I'm hoping that the UnitedStates will follow suit, but it
is a remarkably close race andthis is, you know, one for the
books.
I think the first time aconvicted felon is running for
(02:23):
president 34 times convicted.
Karen McFarlane (02:30):
Correct, correct.
Brittany S. Hale (02:32):
This is the first time a mixed race black
woman is running.
Of course, shirley Chisholm ranfor the president of the United
States before, but yeah, soit's a lot of firsts happening
and so, uh, you know, I'vedabbled in politics in my life
and so I said you know I'm justgonna go back to to doing phone
(02:55):
banking and canvassing.
and for those of you who areunfamiliar with phone banking,
people who are registered voterswill receive phone calls and
you know talk to them aboutwhat's important to them, what
they, what the pressing issuesare for them, and you encourage
them to vote.
And if they have questionsabout ballots, you know voter
(03:20):
registration where to go.
You're provided with tools.
It's actually really cool.
So back in the day, back in myday, you had to go to a
centralized location, but nowthere's technology that you can
use so you can do it remotelyright, because elections were
(03:41):
still happening during thepandemic and we still wanted to
engage people.
So you can do it from thecomfort of your home and you
know, chat with folks.
So I've I've done somescreening calls, so I'm dying to
hear what the content of someof those calls are of some of
(04:06):
those calls are.
I will say, when I first startedmy business and I, it was the
first time that I really had toengage with sales and I listened
to it.
I want to.
Maybe it was a Ted talk, butthere was a.
There was a guy who wasdescribing how he got over his
fear of rejection and he wouldmake an ask, an incredible ask,
(04:28):
of someone every day.
So he would go into a store andmaybe say hey, can I have my
groceries for?
free.
Someone would say no, say hey,can I have this stamp for free?
Most of the time people wouldsay no and he would make these
incredible asks so that he couldprepare to be an incredible
salesperson and learn how todeal with the nose so for
(04:53):
anybody who's listening, whowants to get into sales.
I recommend you do that, and ordo some phone banking.
Karen McFarlane (05:04):
Okay banking.
Brittany S. Hale (05:15):
Okay.
The level of vitriol thatpeople feel comfortable having
on the phone with a completestranger is shocking to me.
Karen McFarlane (05:20):
Well, I know we're not getting into the
content yet, but to theirdefense, you're calling them out
the blue, I'm calling them.
Brittany S. Hale (05:28):
I introduce myself and be clear.
You know why I'm calling andyou know there are some people
who are just happy to have aconversation and that's awesome.
And sometimes you know they'veturned it around and said you
know, are you going to vote?
Why are you going to vote?
What's important to you?
And you know I share a littlebit about my story, but it's
(05:50):
also it's a time for us toconnect as humans, but also as
Americans.
Right, this is An effort to bepatriotic, but but yeah, I get
it.
You know, sometimes it can beannoying if you think it's a
telemarketer.
Karen McFarlane (06:08):
You know, but uh yeah, so tell me about one of
the phone calls that was uminteresting there was one woman
who you know.
Brittany S. Hale (06:21):
She said I it's none of your gd business
who I'm voting for.
Okay, they said okay, that'scompletely fair.
You know, I just want to makesure you have all the
information about yourrespective voting polls and you
know where to go on election day.
And she just went on a tirade.
(06:43):
You know, she was very clear.
She looks at a lot ofconspiracy posts on Facebook,
but I had someone else say youknow, I don't want to hear
anything about Kamala Harris.
She's completely unfit.
I actually got you know someonesaying that she was a DEI hire
(07:07):
which I thought was interestingand I said oh wow, what does
that mean to you, Right?
What is a DEI hire?
I haven't heard of that.
I have not heard anyone inperson speak about a
(07:44):
presidential candidate being aDEI hire and being in one of the
highest levels of electedoffice as a DEI hire.
So I just said what does thatlook like she's absolutely not
qualified.
Oh, what are the qualifications?
Karen McFarlane (07:52):
I love that.
I love that.
Brittany S. Hale (07:57):
You know me, I'm always going to lead with
curiosity.
It's entirely possible thatpeople have access to facts and
information that I do not.
It just wasn't in this case.
So, but I think you know Iwould love for media literacy to
(08:19):
be a required course for peopleto take all throughout their
formative years.
I mean, you should start inelementary school, all the way
through to high school, and itshould be required in college as
well in my opinion.
Karen McFarlane (08:37):
First of all, I am in wonderment that you could
go through these phone calls Iknow you've probably done a ton
of these phone calls and keepyour composure with some of
these people who are, you know,making wild claims like she's a
DEI hire for them to kind ofthink, slow down and hopefully
(09:11):
think about whatever stereotypesthat they are, that they have
towards Kamala Harris or evenDonald Trump I mean either one
right, sure, and I think that'sreally important to do, and
again, kudos to you for doingthat.
That's really important to do,and again, kudos to you for
doing that.
I'm wondering.
Well, I always wonder, I guessI always wonder.
(09:31):
I'm always wondering whatpeople are thinking when they're
making these decisions, howinformed they are, how much you
know.
They go out and they read and,like you say, how much, how
literate are they in thesetopics?
Right?
And this past week we heardPresident Obama talk about some
of those preconceived notionsthat people have about Vice
(09:54):
President Harris as a person ofcolor and her record, and also
speaking directly toparticularly Black men about
their preconceived notions.
And there was some mixedreaction in the media on the
(10:15):
news media and also in socialmedia around that Some for it,
some against it, right, and Ithought that was first of all.
I thought he was very, verybrave in some sense, but it's
President Obama, so he, in myview, has earned the right to
(10:36):
speak directly to certainaudiences.
Right, he is a Black manspeaking to a Black man about,
you know, historicalindifferences and things like
that.
And for me, as a Black woman, Iwas happy that he said what he
said, because it needed to besaid.
People who raised up against itwere of varying backgrounds,
(11:04):
right, but I was paying moreclose attention to the Black men
and women, right.
What were your takeaways?
Brittany S. Hale (11:13):
from what he was saying for those who maybe
hadn't seen it.
Karen McFarlane (11:20):
He basically was saying that, hey, black men,
right.
Basically, you need to put yourtrust into Vice President
Harris right, as a Black woman,as a qualified Black woman, and
(11:41):
remove these notions that Blackwomen in general, right, aren't
qualified.
That's based on some historicalnonsense.
Go research and read about herrecord, because if you're
standing on this concept thatshe does not support Black men
(12:03):
and all she did was lock upBlack men, go learn about what
she really has done.
Don't feed into the oppositenarrative.
And also, you need to vote forsomeone who is for you, not
against you, and has proven thatthe other side, in his view,
has demonstrated that they donot support Black men, black
(12:30):
people in general, butparticularly Black men and so if
you stay home, you are votingfor the other side.
If you vote for the other side,obviously you're voting for the
other side and you need to putyour support in your people.
That was my takeaway from it.
What about you?
Did you get a different take?
You always have a differentperspective.
Brittany S. Hale (12:48):
Yeah, so I he seemed more frustrated than I
think I've ever seen him when itcomes to public speaking.
Of course, I think he's one of,if not the best orator we've
had in our time, and I feltchastened when I was watching,
(13:11):
right, I felt like, oh, you know, I'm glad that I'm not in
trouble, but I he seemed totease out what the underlying
issue could be, which ismisogyny, right, and it's that,
you know, like you said, thatquestion of asking people why
(13:37):
they are not in favor of her andto truly, truly challenge that.
And so we see so many calls forcivility right now.
I think that's the new buzzwordfor the end of 2024, into 2025.
(13:57):
But I wish that it would becuriosity instead, because it's
difficult to be civil with a lie.
How do you civilly engage withlies, especially when they can
do massive harm to large groupsof people?
(14:17):
I agree, but I wonder if you'reable to be curious and, to your
point, ask hey, where'd you getyour information from?
What's happening there?
Did you know that this is thetruth?
Then it allows for you to kindof peel back these layers so
that we can look nakedly atwhat's happening.
Karen McFarlane (14:40):
I agree, and I think we also have to all
recognize people and talk aboutpolicy and demonstrate who she
(15:12):
is and her personality, becausethat's the ground she has to
make up so people can get toknow her.
And, just like I said to you, Igive you kudos for having those
conversations in the face offalsehoods, right, and trying to
remain curious.
She has to do that also right,with all of this vitriol that's
(15:36):
happening around her, which youknow could really just take up
most of her time.
Right, and do this amazingbalancing act that the other
side doesn't have to do.
They're focused on one thing.
It's interesting.
I was talking to a friend theother day, and she lives in
(16:00):
North Carolina and she said youknow, the ads that are coming
out by Kamala Harris have gottenvery aggressive over the past
couple of weeks, straight outlike attack ads, right, and she
(16:22):
was bothered by that.
Interesting.
That is so interesting.
I mean, I'm I'm not seeing themas much here in new york, you
know, or, or there's a balanceand I'm actually more
comfortable, probably, with thatright.
Then, say, someone from thesouth who really leans more into
that, into civility, right, interms of the culture in general,
(16:45):
right.
And so, like I said, she wasreally bothered that this, this
shift, had happened and I waslike, wow, is that a cultural
thing?
One, two, is it reallyhappening that their shift has
to happen?
And three, well, it probablyhas to happen because of, again,
all the vitriol that has beenspewed.
(17:06):
So we don't recognize thedeafness at which she and her
team are operating and give hercredit for that.
Brittany S. Hale (17:19):
She's still on par because it's very close, as
you said, with the other sideand that is crazy to women that
she thought it was unseemly forher as a woman to be aggressive,
(17:48):
or perceived as aggressive,versus her being assertive and
truly not only defending herself, but speaking in furtherance of
what her mission is going to be.
Karen McFarlane (18:02):
It's a great question and I did not ask her
that, if I'm being honest, and Ithink I didn't ask her because
I made an assumption about it,right, which is that it's rooted
in part in gender and in partin race, right, because we've
talked about that on manyoccasions.
(18:22):
How you know, there's just adifferent behavioral way that
Southern Blacks and particularlySouthern female Black people
operate because of thehistorical context.
(18:43):
Female Black people operatebecause of the historical
context, and I've alsoseparately, you know, in talking
to other people, I get labeledin some ways as I don't like to
use the term aggressive becausethey don't mean it in that way,
but I can't think of a betterterm right now but more
aggressive by people from theSouth because I'm from the North
(19:07):
, right, and that I might not beas well favored in the way that
I operate.
Brittany S. Hale (19:14):
Yeah, yeah.
There's a directness.
That happens and there's.
So it's really an amalgamationof things.
Right, there's race, there'sgender, there's age, right are
like.
You know it's about time sheneeds to, you know she needs of
(19:35):
take the gloves off.
There are others for whomthat's not palatable, especially
(20:12):
because they see all of theother aspects of her identity as
negative, right and no matterwhere you are.
Karen McFarlane (20:19):
You know, being like taking the gloves off from
a female perspective is notquote unquote normal right.
It is seen as something otherthan when men do it.
So she's battling all of these,you know, gender stereotypes
and biases, right and again, ontop of everything else, and not
(20:43):
getting credit for that in ameaningful way, which bothers me
to my core.
And then, on the other hand,you have what I loved seeing was
President Obama, as a Blackmale, advocating for her as a
(21:03):
Black woman or mixed race womanand outlining the reasons why we
should vote for her.
That is not often something yousee right, so when you see it,
it's very powerful Right, rightand Right.
(21:25):
And we listen to Obama for themost part because he is our icon
.
And what also was superupsetting on the socials for me
was the amount and level ofdisrespect given to President
Obama for simply speaking hismind.
Given to President Obama forsimply speaking his mind.
(21:48):
He was losing credit orcredibility in certain people's
eyes, despite the fact that hehas made history in the history
of this country as being thefirst Black president.
And you still have peoplespewing.
What did he do for the country?
What did he do for Black people?
Well, go read first of all.
Yeah, okay, let's just startthere, read and interpret.
(22:09):
Right?
But if you're mad that he'ssaying this, that might require
some self-reflection, right?
But everyone here, no matteryour race, creed, color,
whatever, has an opportunity tomake history.
The fact of the matter is well,I was going to say okay, I'm
(22:34):
still going to say it.
The fact of the matter iseither person can be president.
One person was already.
Despite their, in my view,unqualifications, either one can
be president, either one is youknow, and that's the case.
One of them is going to bepresident.
Yeah, regardless.
Right, you have a moment tomake history, not only for
(22:59):
people of color, but for women,right?
And so what is your?
Brittany S. Hale (23:08):
choice going to be.
We've all known a woman.
Karen McFarlane (23:10):
We've all come from a woman, exactly.
You can't live on this earthwithout women, right?
So what is your choice going tobe?
Are you going to seize thismoment to make history I was
going to say all things beingequal I don't believe all things
are equal, but let's just say,in certain people's minds, all
(23:32):
things are equal, right or areyou just going to live with the
status quo?
You have to push yourself outof the comfort zone to enact
change.
So we're going to do what wehave always done change.
So we're going to do what wehave always done, yeah.
Or are we going to do somethingmeaningful to this country and
to people who have beenhistorically underrepresented,
(23:52):
and that's.
Let me just be clear when I saythat, right, that is not being a
DEI hire.
Since we came up with that,since we came up with the term,
that is not being it.
Kamala Harris is well qualified, perhaps overqualified, for
doing this job and she has shown, even in these last few months
(24:17):
but she's vice president and shehas a long historical career,
right, but even in these lastfew months how she can pull
people together, galvanizepeople, share her message and
lead, and do that while doingher vice presidency job.
Oh my gosh, we didn't evenmention that.
(24:39):
She's still vice presidentRight.
Brittany S. Hale (24:42):
And this is also a moment for us all to
reflect and remember that beingvice president does not mean
that you get to usurp the powerof the president.
For those people who are saying, and what has she done?
Why didn't she do all of thesepolicies?
You know she's been vicepresident for the past few years
.
It's just that is not how itworks.
You know, against schoolhouserock.
(25:03):
You know just basic civicslesson.
But I have two questions foryou.
So first, you brought upsomething that I think is really
important, which is there's acost that comes with allyship
and I think most people so.
You know President Obama'scredibility taking a hit because
(25:26):
he's, you know, sticking hisneck out for a candidate he
believes in.
And I, despite what we, what weprofess, I think there's been a
shift away from patriotism andthis kind of collective interest
(25:46):
into hyper individualism wheresomeone would say, well, if it's
not going to benefit him, thenhe shouldn't do anything.
And I think a lot of us havethis idea of oh, if I'm an ally,
you know it may not go in myfavor, but I would posit,
there's a cost either way, andfailing or opting out of being
(26:14):
an ally in this instance doesn'tguarantee your protection in
the next.
That's correct.
You know, and I say that becauseI was having a conversation
with a friend who is a blackmale and he said you know this
election he himself, he does notidentify as very political and
(26:37):
my argument is your veryexistence, your ability to
navigate this world, is, in andof itself, political.
You have children.
Yep, you have unambiguouslyblack children.
There are politics to youridentity.
(26:58):
There are politics to you know,nevertheless to your identity,
their politics to you know,nevertheless.
He mentioned and for those whoare listening, who may not be
Black, american or who may say,oh okay, maybe this conversation
doesn't affect me Black peopleare not a monolith, they never
have been.
But he is experiencingfractures within his own family,
(27:22):
right, because he has familymembers who are MAGA and, as
bizarre as that is for me, it'slargely due to rampant
misinformation.
And for someone like him who'slike I'm not really political.
(27:43):
You allow for thatmisinformation to spread and
take root and take hold to thepoint where now you have these
fissures and cracks in yourfamily, to the point where you
have to ask yourself, okay, well, now you have.
What do you want the world tolook like for your children?
(28:04):
And is your family member notsimilarly invested in that
future for your children?
That's their family.
Karen McFarlane (28:15):
Right, that's an excellent point.
I mean, when I I had thisthought briefly, it was so brief
, but it was a thought, I haveto admit to it that, uh, when
you know, with womenreproductive rights on the line,
my immediate thought was, thankgoodness I have a son, Right.
(28:37):
And then it was like Right.
And then I was like but itdoesn't end there, right,
(28:58):
because maybe one day he'll getmarried, right, and so.
And then I have a goddaughter,and my goddaughter has a
daughter, you know, and I havecousins that are female, like it
.
It doesn't just stop with mylittle nuclear family.
And so, to your point right, weare in charge of the future and
(29:25):
we can't just stand by on thesidelines and just focus on
ourselves.
Because even if you're focusedon your family which is where
people obviously will start itgrows, right, it has a domino
effect.
It has an effect on yourfriends, right, it has a domino
effect.
It has an effect on yourfriends, right, and their
(29:46):
families, right.
So it doesn't actually ever end.
And so we have to be futureforward thinking and think about
the collective.
And, yeah, it's like you said,it's going to have an effect
either way.
So what side of history do youwant to be on?
You know, I am fearful.
(30:10):
Just even.
Let's focus on reproductiverights.
Like every time this topic comesup, my mind goes straight to
the handmaid's tale.
I don't know if everyone'swatched that.
Straight to the Handmaid's Tale.
I don't know if everyone'swatched that, but it's a very
deeply disturbing.
It's a book series and alsoI've watched a television series
(30:30):
on Hulu about, basically, atthe stroke of a pen for the new
law.
Right, women lost all theirrights and it created this.
What do you call it?
This, I don't know the word,but this weird kind of
misogynistic society, right,where women were, you know,
(30:55):
reduced to childbears, servantsand wives and subject to abuse,
lost all of their ability toagain own property or earn wages
, et cetera, and it was based ona law that men enacted and it
(31:17):
took place relatively overnight.
Right.
Brittany S. Hale (31:22):
In reality kind of gradual because, if I
remember correctly, she cameinto work and they needed her
husband on her bank accountsomething to that effect.
And then she went to go get herbirth control and her husband
(31:43):
had to sign off and they thoughtthis is odd, but okay, and she
was very fortunate in that shehad a husband right, who was
completely like huh, this is oddbut sure, right.
And then her coming in andfinding all the women had been
(32:04):
laid off right right, it's crazy.
Karen McFarlane (32:09):
Yeah, you're right, it was gradual, but I
don't know why I startedwatching it.
Brittany S. Hale (32:13):
No, but it was literally overnight, right like
she goes in the next day andhas no.
That was it right you are nolonger employed.
Karen McFarlane (32:22):
And then she was running for her life with
her child, right.
It was this new prison that shewould be in, and it just it
feels very modern day, right,and it feels like in some ways,
it's happening Right, much moreslowly than it happened in this
television show, but stillhappening.
(32:44):
And that's just one example,right, of how these laws are
shaping our society and ourpersonal freedoms and why we
have to be active allies in it,right, day after day after day.
Brittany S. Hale (33:04):
You bring up a great point.
Even just that sigh of reliefto say thank goodness I have a
son.
But you also reflected on thatthought.
Many people do not.
They just say, thank goodness,it's not a problem, the end.
They're not thinking abouttheir son's potential partner in
(33:28):
life, you know, their wife oryou know, whatever, they're not
thinking past that point.
They're thinking you know, Iwill run for shelter, run for a
protector and that'll be enough.
(33:48):
And that is again the cost ofallyship, because for the people
who are supposed to be theprotectors to assume the
responsibility, there's a costthere and there as well.
I just saw an interview withvice presidential candidate
Jamie Vance and he wasdiscussing how his wife attends
(34:15):
mass with him, even though sheis Hindu and he is Catholic.
And he said you know, she hasthree kids and he's Catholic.
And he said you know, she hasthree kids and he's speaking
conversationally, but it struckme because I said, no, you both
me, right, you have three kidsalongside.
(34:35):
But he's just listing howuncomfortable it is for her and
how challenging it is for her,and he's like her and he's like
you know it's every sunday andyou know she, she goes to mass
and I mean you know she's gotthree kids and it was just like
a very depersonalized response.
That I thought was odd.
(34:57):
But, um, but we're starting toask different questions, which
allows us to peek into the, tothe marketing of this idyllic
nuclear home.
That's a fairly recent fantasy.
Karen McFarlane (35:15):
Yeah, right.
Brittany S. Hale (35:19):
This is a marketing push.
Karen McFarlane (35:22):
Well, look, I don't know anything about that,
because they didn't show us asnuclear families.
They still don't show us asnuclear families, fair.
So that idyllic life, and thatwas tough yeah exactly.
You had my little kids?
Yeah, in more recent times,yeah, but they still like.
(35:45):
There's this controversy rightnow with Heinz right that showed
this Heinz UK that basicallyshowed an ad with a Black bride
and other white people at thetable and her black mother, but
no black father right, and sothere's uproar about that and
(36:06):
how that they, you know, againleaning into the stereotype of
an absentee father.
And so, although we see some ofthese images on television and
film, and there is, you know, anactive push, there's still look
, we're not all the same rightthere's still going to be
(36:26):
remnants of these stereotypes aspart of the lexicon of society.
Even when and I have to beclear about that even when you
have those groups involved,right, it doesn't mean that, hey
, put some Black people onsomething and those stereotypes
are going to go away, becausethey're so ingrained in our
(36:51):
society that even we as theaffected group might think them,
but have to follow your rule ofcuriosity, right, and ask
ourselves why do we think thatand what can that lead to,
(37:11):
positive or negative?
So there's a lot ofself-reflection that has to be
done each and every time, whichis work.
Brittany S. Hale (37:22):
It's work.
It's a lot of work.
Karen McFarlane (37:25):
Yeah, but it can become more natural if you
lean into having a growthmindset, right, which is all
about curiosity.
So you're always questioningthings, you're always
questioning yourself, right, andyou're always wanting to learn
how to be better.
So at first it will beuncomfortable because it's not
(37:46):
your natural position, but asyou continue to do it, you build
that discipline and it becomesnatural over time.
Brittany S. Hale (37:54):
Yes, and if you need a selfish reason
neuroplasticity right.
Your ability to continue todevelop new neural pathways and
continue to learn helps you asyou age.
So for those listening, forwhom you know allyship and
patriotism and you know thecollective common good is not
(38:17):
enough.
You can stave off mouth.
You can stave off thesedeleterious effects of aging
mentally by continuing to learncontinuing to question.
Karen McFarlane (38:35):
I love that.
I love that.
I'm hoping that Mina learnedsome stuff from this too, right
she?
Brittany S. Hale (38:37):
learned a lot.
I thought she was sleeping butshe's wide awake.
Okay, Mina, we put you to sleep, Right?
I was trying to kind of rockbut she's like been staring at
me Like I think theneuroplasticity was her addition
to the show.
I tried to take credit for it.
Karen McFarlane (38:55):
Awesome.
Well, I always learn somethingfrom you, Brittany.
Brittany S. Hale (39:01):
So you're going to keep me ageless, okay.
Absolutely.
I mean, you have plenty ofmelanin to go around, so that's
also going to help a whole lotLove it All.
Karen McFarlane (39:13):
right, until next time, see ya.
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