September 24, 2025 • 41 mins
Have you ever thanked your past self for making life a little easier today? That simple gesture reflects something deeper: the kind of practical wisdom (phronesis) that fuels human flourishing.
In this episode of The E Word, we explore how Aristotle’s five intellectual virtues—through our SPENT framework—can guide us toward a more intentional, joyful, and purpose-driven life. What starts as a philosophical reflection quickly becomes a conversation about real-world decisions: prepping breakfast, stocking up on essentials, or learning to trust your gut at work—even when the data isn't all there.
We examine how self-awareness (sophia), intuition (nous), factual knowledge (episteme), and skillful action (techne) all play a role in how we think, lead, and live. Along the way, we offer tools for rewiring the subconscious and honoring the wisdom of your inner voice.
Which SPENT virtue shows up most in your life—and how are you letting it lead?
Stay With Us
- Watch and Subscribe to The E Word on YouTube.
- Follow Karen on LinkedIn and learn more at Colossal Work.
- Follow Brittany on LinkedIn and learn more at BND Consulting Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brittany S. Hale (00:01):
Hi Karen.
Karen McFarlane (00:02):
Hi, brittany, it's good to see you, I'm good.
Brittany S. Hale (00:08):
Oh, it's good to see you too.
Karen McFarlane (00:11):
I am good.
I am good.
It's been a good week, you know, and I'm hoping that the I love
hearing that, how about you?
Brittany S. Hale (00:23):
I'm doing well .
I'm doing well, I'm doing well.
You know, it is my favoriteseason, which is autumn, and I
think, at least where I liveright, there's always a very
visible shift from summer intoautumn.
Leaves get golden, the sunlightlooks a little bit different.
(00:44):
Seeing that golden light in themorning peeking through the,
the leaves that are falling on,it's all very um beautiful and
it makes me feel like I'm in anancy meyer film, which is like
um enjoyable.
So for now, I I think that wecould, every now and then we
(01:08):
have some episodes that are alittle bit, add some levity to
the space, and I just think thatthat now is a time where we can
bring a little bit more lightright.
Karen McFarlane (01:22):
let's do it.
Let's totally do it.
You know, we want to live in aspace of joy, right, and so
let's do it.
Brittany S. Hale (01:31):
Awesome, Awesome, Looking forward to that
.
So to our listeners, you knowwe're focusing on Aristotle's
five virtues.
We have the spent framework,and so I spent pun intended some
time thinking about some of myfavorite things or things that
(01:54):
may bring me joy according tothat spent framework.
So I thought maybe we couldchallenge ourselves to mention
things that either bring us joy,things that we're focused on,
or things in the past that wefound interesting using that
(02:14):
framework.
What do you think?
Karen McFarlane (02:17):
Let's give it a go, let's totally do it.
I mean, I think that makessense, and we also want people
to understand how to apply it,and we may have different ways
of applying it, which is cool,right, like it's not meant to be
rigid.
It's meant for us to bereflective and thoughtful about
how we approach life.
Brittany S. Hale (02:37):
Yes, absolutely Absolutely.
So.
The first one, of course, isSophia, which is the philosophic
wisdom, and I am currentlyreading a book.
This is not an endorsement.
I haven't gotten all the waythrough the book right now, but
it's something that at thispoint in time, I find really
(03:02):
interesting to engage with, andthat is the Prosperous Power of
your Subconscious Mind, byJoseph Murphy.
Have you read this?
I have not.
Ah, okay, so this book at thispoint is at least where I'm at
now.
It's really kind of teachingyou how to use the conscious
(03:23):
mind to deposit constructivethoughts into the subconscious
mind.
So I am someone who I alwayshave very vivid dreams.
You know I, in one night I canremember multiple dreams, which
I've heard is pretty unusual.
Karen McFarlane (03:44):
That is unusual .
By the way, this is one dream Ido remember.
You were in it, we were at theairport.
I'm only remembering it nowbecause we're talking.
We were at the airport and youhad a whole team that was
following us around for content.
That's all I remember, okay,but you were absolutely Okay.
Brittany S. Hale (04:05):
So we're going to take that subconscious
thought and amplify it and applyour conscious mind to it.
I love that we're going to bethere.
And so you know the book isessentially just saying by
changing thought patterns youcan reprogram your subconscious
(04:27):
to live a life that's morealigned with where you are.
So I don't know, for anybodylistening, if you're having
dreams of your teeth falling out, or you know you're on stage
and you know you experience asort of fright.
That suggests thatsubconsciously you may feel
vulnerable, you may feelpowerless, you may feel a number
(04:51):
of different things.
And so the book suggests that,even if consciously you're
saying, oh yeah, I love beingpositive, or you know I, yeah, I
absolutely feel empowered, andthen subconsciously you're
having either dreams orsituations happening in your
(05:12):
life that don't align with whatyou're espousing, it suggests
that there's some work to do.
So I just I really enjoy readingsome of the case studies in the
book and seeing how people areable to reprogram themselves.
I've been doing a little bit ofit myself, and my dreams are
(05:36):
normally again.
I have a number of dreams.
For the most part they're notbad at all, but I found myself
being more aware in my dream,like, oh, this is a dream and
this is really cool, so I can dowhat I want.
So right now I'm going to makeXYZ happen.
Karen McFarlane (05:53):
So I like that, I like that, so I like the fact
that you are yeah, I like thefact that you're like actively
speaking out educationalresources to do that and then
trying to apply them to yourreal life.
That's a really smart way to doit.
I'm not doing it that way.
So for my Sophia, it's reallytrying to understand my why, and
(06:23):
that has changed for me overtime, and I actually view this
time as a era of recalibrationaround my purpose, and so I have
defined my purpose as justbeing better than before.
So being better than before formyself, but also in my
(06:44):
engagements with clients or inmy volunteer roles or however
I'm engaging in the world.
And so I ask that question andapply that mantra, that
philosophy, to, I would say,most of the things that I'm
doing.
I'm practicing it, so it's not100 percent right.
So what is my why and does itapply to my mantra?
(07:07):
And so once I do that, I canhopefully manifest these things
in a way that supports thosegoals, and then I will feel more
aligned.
And it's about my thinking also.
So even before I go to sleep,just to kind of piggyback on
(07:29):
your dreams, I try to centerthose thoughts before I go to
bed.
Maybe they're coming up in mydreams and I don't remember.
I don't remember a lot ofthings that happen in the
daytime when I'm conscious Fairenough in the daytime when I'm
conscious, fair enough.
But I'm hoping that by doingthat I'm taking steps to make
(07:51):
all of those things come toreality.
I know I need to do more, Ican't just think about it, but
that's just a starting point forme.
Brittany S. Hale (07:59):
I love that.
I love that and I'm lookingforward to updates.
I know you said it's starting,so I'm looking forward to
updates as it continues.
Karen McFarlane (08:11):
It's a work in progress, right, definitely.
Brittany S. Hale (08:17):
Totally into it.
Okay, so the next is the P inour SPINT framework, which is
phronesis, and that's practicalwisdom, I believe.
Yeah, using your good judgment.
Yeah, do you want to kick thisoff?
Karen McFarlane (08:34):
Well.
So I guess that would be likethe next step in my
purpose-driven approach, right?
Like really asking myself whatis the approach I'm taking in
the interactions that I havewith the world and with what I'm
doing, right?
So I'm now just not thinkingabout it.
(08:57):
How am I, what's my methodologyfor achieving it?
Now, this is something that Ihave to work on, okay,
continuously, because I havelots of thoughts, lots of
thoughts, and my mind has alwaysbeen this way since I've been
(09:20):
young.
I have lots of ideas.
I can write of ideas.
I can, you know, write themdown, but they also take a
certain amount of discipline toactivate them, and the more
ideas I have, the more bandwidthI need and I need to prioritize
more.
So that's something that I haveto focus on is how do I
(09:43):
prioritize not only the idea orthe initiative, but the levels
of effort that are required toachieve them?
You know, I'm not a person thatwill focus on just one thing.
I need to have a couple ofthings to focus on.
That's just how my mind works.
It jumps around, but that's anarea of opportunity for me, but
(10:08):
also something that I'm good at,right.
So it's just about having morediscipline around that and then
also understanding which kind offlows into the other one, so I
won't get into them like what ismy intuition versus what is
factual information versus whatis something else right, and so
that's just really honing mymethodology around the judgment
(10:29):
aspect of it.
Brittany S. Hale (10:31):
How about you?
I think it's really cool.
I love that.
Actually, I was just thinkingabout the practicalism, and I
agree with you.
At any given time I'm probablyreading like between three and
five books, and they're all sodifferent, but they all feed and
nourish me, you know.
(10:52):
So I can't choose very often,so I admire the ability to
prioritize.
So my phrenesis, my practicalwisdom, is looking out for
future me.
Here's what I mean when I saythat I don't know if you've ever
(11:12):
had a moment where, let's say,you changed purses and for
people who don't carry purses,that can always be challenging,
because you may have somethingin one purse that you need later
on.
You know it could be somethingas practical as your wallet.
Or you know lip balm, sunscreen, you know hand sanitizer,
(11:33):
whatever it is.
Have you ever had a momentwhere you thought you forgot
something?
You look in and you feel thatsigh of relief oh my gosh, it's
here All the time.
Karen McFarlane (11:44):
I think I forget stuff all the time.
Yes, I make fun of relief.
Oh my gosh, it's here.
Brittany S. Hale (11:46):
Yeah, all the time I think I forget stuff all
the time.
Karen McFarlane (11:47):
Yes, so when I don't, I'm like yay.
Brittany S. Hale (11:52):
Exactly so.
I've had these moments whereI'm just like thank you, past me
, oh, look at past me, lookingout for future me, and it could
be something like buying anextra pack of paper towels.
So when I run out and I think,man, I have to go to the grocery
store, I look in my pantry andI see, oh my gosh, you know, I
(12:14):
have another 12 rolls to go.
Thank you, fast Me.
But more recently, I can'tremember where I got it.
Maybe it was, I don't know,some home store, but I got this
mini griddle.
It's a little circular griddleand it is the perfect size for
(12:34):
making breakfast sandwiches.
So on the bottom you can putlike an English muffin and it's
a layered griddle.
So on a separate layer you canlike crack an egg and the egg
will cook like meat, veggies,whatever you want to put on
there, and then there's anotherlayer that will also grill the
(12:55):
top of the um, the englishmuffin.
But what's really interesting,it has like a little, a little
slide, so the egg, once it'scooked, will now just perfectly
drop on top of the Englishmuffin.
Oh, wow, I know this soundssilly, but for someone I love my
(13:15):
mornings and more recently Ihave to every now and then I
have to get going an earliertime than I normally would.
So to make my breakfast atnight, to make my iced coffee,
to make my little breakfastsandwich that I can heat up and
(13:37):
then just go and let go.
It feels like such a practicaland loving act to do for my
future self, so that I canguarantee ease going forward.
So, yeah, that's my practicalwisdom.
Karen McFarlane (13:54):
First of all, I just want to say that the whole
thanking your past self, Ithink, is just an amazing thing
to do, because we often don'tgive ourselves credit for
thinking ahead.
I know I don't so like in mypresent me moment, I'm more
likely to acknowledge my past mein a frustrating sense, right
(14:18):
Like oh gosh, I didn't do thisbefore, I didn't think about
this, or whatever.
But when you are happy withyourself, reflecting on what you
did, right, I think is animportant step that I know that
I miss.
So that's awesome that you dothat.
I can put that into practicenow.
Brittany S. Hale (14:40):
Future Karen and Brittany will appreciate us
recording now More content toshare, absolutely.
Karen McFarlane (14:49):
Absolutely.
Brittany S. Hale (14:53):
I love that, all right.
Karen McFarlane (14:56):
You want to take our E Episteme is just like
knowing the facts.
So you know.
This is like how are youbacking up your assumptions
overall?
Right, and that's you know,doing the research you know.
You know you may have, like Imay have a thought right and I
(15:17):
believe my thought to be true,but how do I know it's true?
And so I'm always trying tovalidate myself with more
information.
Right, I am an avid user of, youknow, ai, right, so I may start
there.
But also just general reading,you know, at the end of the day,
(15:41):
but sometimes, because, as Isaid earlier, I have all these
ideas and all these thoughts,it's just very easy for me to
plug that in to chat GPT orClaude.
I use a couple of differentones and seek out resources to
help me think more criticallyabout whatever that idea is, and
(16:02):
sometimes it validates me andsometimes it doesn't.
I actually ask the tool topoint out what's wrong, what's
missing, what the challenges are.
I know it's there to please meand I'm like I don't need you to
make me feel good, I need youto give me the information.
As a side note, and I hope Isaved it because I meant to
(16:26):
implement this.
There's a prompt out there thatencourages ChatGPT to be very
brutal with you and, like all ofthe fluff and all of that, I've
tried to write instructions tothat extent because I want the
no nonsense.
But anyway, that's one of thetools that I use in addition to
(16:48):
seeking my own resources throughGoogle or just reading.
You just have to expand yourmind, whether it's a magazine I
subscribe to, hbr andEntrepreneur, some of these
different things, and just getthat perspective.
Brittany S. Hale (17:03):
Absolutely.
I could not agree with you more.
You know there's a book calledEmpire of AI I don't know if
you've read it by Karen Howe,and I find it fascinating to get
scientific knowledge on what AIis and is capable of, what it
(17:26):
is not capable of and theconsequences not only to myself
but to my environment but to myown ability to reason and think
critically.
So that is my episteme.
Karen McFarlane (17:44):
Well, you're an avid reader, so you're always
gathering facts data pointsconstantly.
Brittany S. Hale (17:54):
um, if you've ever done the clifton strengths,
one of my top five strengths isinput, which is, you know, just
kind of being this seeminglyendless consumer of information
and being able to kind of pullit out as needed.
Karen McFarlane (18:14):
So yeah, yeah, that's one of your, that's
definitely one of your strengthsand superpowers is the ability
to get all that data but alsothink about it critically and
form your own opinions about it,right To kind of use it
holistically, so that totallytracks.
Brittany S. Hale (18:35):
All right, and then you alluded to noose.
Do you want to go into that alittle bit?
Karen McFarlane (19:01):
Yeah.
So this one's interesting.
This is about strong, a strongintuition about things.
Right, I have a high IQ, I havethese, I have these attributes
that I didn't think wereimportant for a very long time
and I didn't lean on.
(19:21):
And so now I do, because I'veproven to myself year after year
after year that my gut isusually right.
Now will I go solely with mygut?
No, I will give my gut anopportunity to have.
I will have to prove if my gutis still true, but in a
(19:44):
different way.
Right.
So now I was was before.
I was like, well, I shouldn'treally go with my gut and may or
may not be true, like it wasjust a hedging.
Now I'm like, well, it's likelytrue.
However, you still have to usethe other tools in order to
validate or invalidate and thethe point there is be willing to
(20:06):
invalidate as well, because ifyou're looking for what you want
to be true, you will findevidence to back that up.
So this is why all these thingskind of work together, but it
is an attribute that I do have,naturally, and I shouldn't
ignore it.
I should use it as a data pointfor everything that I'm
thinking of, to either pursue ornot pursue, or to support or
(20:28):
not support the original thoughtor idea that I'm thinking about
.
So that's kind of how I thinkabout my intuition.
Now it's to accept it and toappreciate it in a way that I
haven't in the past.
Brittany S. Hale (20:48):
You said a word and I'm just.
I'm thinking of it almost as amuscle, right.
And continuing to use it so youcan develop a better
relationship with it.
Yes, well said Self.
Yeah, I think self-trust hasbeen one of the biggest hurdles.
You know I mean I for listenersmaybe you understand this.
(21:12):
If you're the eldest child,especially the eldest daughter,
if you're in any way type A, ifyou've had to be the first to do
anything, be the first to doanything, that fear of not even
(21:32):
failing but just to be seentrying without achieving
immediately is terrifying.
You know, there's a joke aboutthe millennials who were gifted
and talented all their lives andnow they're just completely
burnt out as adults because theyfollowed the script right.
You did the program, you gotthe straight A's, you did the
fellowships, you did everythingyou were supposed to do, and you
(21:57):
arrive to adulthood to see thatthere is no script, there is no
roadmap and it's really justyou having to figure out what
works best for you, and that canbe terrifying.
And so to your point aboutself-trust and developing that
intuition.
That's something that I'mleaning into With EQ.
(22:22):
So there's something called theCohen test.
I don't know if you're familiarwith it.
Many of our listeners may befamiliar with Sasha Baron Cohen,
who's actually a cousin.
The Cohen test is very oftenused to gauge whether or not
people are on the spectrum.
(22:43):
It's not definitive, I want tobe very clear about that, but it
gauges EQ and the test is justyou seeing a series of eyes and
you were supposed to guess theemotion based on the eyes alone.
And of course you know thereare perhaps cultural differences
(23:09):
and things like that, but onthe whole it gives people a
sense of where people are.
So during times like thepandemic, where a lot of times
people were wearing a mask andall you could see were eyes, you
would think that thepopulation's eq would have risen
, but it dropped.
(23:29):
So, uh, the average person's eqis usually on the the cohen
test.
People usually score somewherebetween like a 40 to 60 percent
um.
And so I remember I wasspeaking with, uh, the professor
(23:52):
I was, I was working with, andso I told her my score because
I'd gotten a 96, and she, herface, she, she freaked out,
she's oh, oh, that's amazing.
So to your point, because Iwould love to hear all of the
(24:12):
ways that your news, yourintuition, has helped you in
marketing.
I know it's helped me whenpartnerships and find spaces of
connection, because you're ableto calculate right to take into
(24:32):
account all of the differentpoints.
Oh, you know her.
She's nodding, her eyebrowmoved.
Maybe she agrees with thispoint, maybe she doesn't.
Maybe that's a point for us todelve further into.
Karen McFarlane (24:53):
All of these things are happening at rapid
speed, right In milliseconds.
So it's interesting.
And the only reason I say thatis because, although it is
correct most of the time in myapproach to marketing strategy,
(25:14):
I can't use that alone One,because people don't believe me.
So it's not fair.
I think that's like 90% of thereason.
Like people are just not goingto well, karen just thinks
that's the way it should go.
You know it needs to be backedup by data, and so I distinctly
remember, just earlier on in mycareer, being challenged on my
(25:37):
noose around my marketingstrategy, and I remember being
very annoyed by that because I'mlike I just know it's right,
like this is the way it'ssupposed to be.
I know I understand people, Iunderstand their intentions, I
know what makes them tick orwhat their pain points are.
I know this, okay, but peopledon't believe that.
(25:59):
I just know it.
They want to see why I knew it.
I knew it, and they wanted thedata to back it up.
This early in my career I waslike, oh, you need data why I
know it to be true, and so Ilearned that I had to back up
(26:22):
what they thought wereassumptions, and I guess you
could.
Yeah, so it does help in termsof understanding the direction
you may want to go into, but youstill need episteme.
You need to partner withepisteme right in order to move
(26:42):
people along with you.
Again, you're supposed tovalidate right, but you also
need buy-in and cooperation, andso you have to pair it with
something else.
Brittany S. Hale (26:52):
And so you have to pair it with something
else, absolutely, and I think wesee that often, right.
So I think when we look atleaders who have been able to
tap into their intuition, theydo quite well.
I'm thinking of the CEO ofCostco, right, who, when paired
with certain knowledge, just sayhey, hey, this is what a lot of
(27:16):
these other big box retailersare doing, this is what we
should do.
The instinct to say no, we'regonna, we're gonna keep our hot
dogs at a dollar fifty, we'regoing to keep certain
initiatives, we're going to dothings our way, regardless of
what the market is doing.
Yeah, and to see anybody who'sinvested in Costco has had a
(27:40):
really great year, because theepisteme of it all shows that is
proof positive of thatintuition, to see that those
instincts are paying off realdividends to folks.
Karen McFarlane (28:00):
Yeah, and over the past I don't know 10, 15, 20
years we've become a verydata-driven society, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
But for the times before thatwe weren't, and we did rely on
our instincts.
We did rely more on havinghigher EQs, I would say right,
(28:27):
because we took time tounderstand people differently
than we do now, which isessentially reducing them to
metrics.
Right, and especially in theconsumer market.
Right, those metrics are ficklebecause people change their
mind instantly.
(28:50):
Right, to try to understand,for example, you know, if I go
into a store, why I would buythis over that.
I think it's very difficultbecause you have no idea really
and truly what's going on insidehere, what's going to motivate
me.
You can influence motivation,right, you could try to
(29:10):
basically for lack of a betterterm manipulate or trick me into
something different, but youreally had no idea and that, and
even if I told you the daybefore, it might've changed the
(29:31):
day after.
And so it's always tricky interms of developing meaningful,
long-term, authenticrelationships with people where
you have to actually talk tothem, and it's hard to do that
at scale, and we're trying to doeverything at scale, but
there's so much of a differencewhen I have a conversation with
(29:54):
you rather than when I look at asurvey you filled out, right,
and that's where your instinctsbuilt on potentially years of
work and study and research andusing the SPENT framework, even
(30:15):
if you didn't know you wereusing it or not come into play
so that, like you said, you cantrust your instincts and those
instincts are more likely to becorrect because of your past
practices and your criticalthinking and your depth of
understanding of who youraudience is.
So maybe back then, earlier inmy career, although I had good
(30:38):
instincts and people didn'tbelieve me, now they're even
better.
So, while you may or may nothave the data, my instincts are
closer to the data that youwould receive.
Not saying you shouldn't stillprove it, but if you didn't have
it at this point in time,you're probably still in good
(30:58):
hands with me, right, because mypast, oh, I like.
So there's something thatyou've done for instincts in a
positive way.
Brittany S. Hale (31:10):
Exactly Do you want to round us out?
Karen McFarlane (31:16):
So techne is just about making it all real.
So you know, that's just likehow do you activate your goals
or your project or whatever withintention, and I think that for
me, it has to link back to mypurpose.
(31:38):
So it starts with the Sophia.
All over again, I've thoughtabout my why.
I'm trying to exercise goodjudgment in terms of my approach
.
I'm sourcing the facts, I'mleveraging my intuition and I'm
taking all of those things inorder to put that into action,
(32:02):
whether it's a very specificplan or whether it's hey, you
know what am I going to do todayto make my future self happy?
And it's the thought that youput into at the end of the day,
(32:22):
whether it's a small thing or alarger thing, in activating it
from idea to execution.
I love that.
How about you?
How do you make it real foryourself?
Brittany S. Hale (32:39):
Every time you share something, I'm like, yes,
let me just let me compute.
So you're absolutely right inthat these are all tied together
right, and I think that's thepoint of the framework is to
have each of these virtuesinterwoven into and feed into
(33:03):
what you do, how you think, say,and what you interact with.
So, because you know we'vespoken a lot about books and
reading, and input and data, oneof the things that I love, that
I keep on me at all times, ismy phone, but I engage with apps
(33:23):
that help me more meaningfullyengage, and one of them is the
Nebby app.
Have you heard of the Nebby?
Karen McFarlane (33:34):
app.
I'm always learning about newstuff from you, so tell me about
the Nebby app.
Have you heard of the Nebby app?
I'm always learning about newstuff from you, so tell me about
the Nebby app.
I love it.
How do you spell?
Brittany S. Hale (33:40):
it Okay.
So Nebby is N, as in Nancy E, bas in Brittany B as in Brittany
I.
So it's called the Nebby appand it is a wellness companion.
It identifies itself as a dailymood coach and it use
psychology backed tools andprompts to help you feel calmer,
(34:02):
clearer and more in control,one step at a time.
So it's grounded in cognitivebehavioral therapy CBT.
If anybody's ever had any sortof engagement with therapy, that
is a methodology and it has ahuman first approach.
So I like the idea of eventhough I'm engaging with my
phone, I'm still focusing onbeing human first, and it's
(34:27):
designed to build emotionalregulation and reset your mental
state.
So it is fascinating to seethese kind of check-ins because
you can check in and it'll sayyou know, how are you feeling
right now, what emotion feelsstrongest at this moment?
And because we live in a worldthat is so quick, sometimes
(34:52):
we're acting on emotions beforewe identify them.
So we might be sending off thatemail, sending off that text
message response when, if wekind of paused a moment to say
I'm actually operating from fear, that might not be something
that I want to do, or I justwant to prove that I'm being
(35:13):
responsive, or I just want toprove that I'm being responsive,
and that doesn't necessarilymean that I am.
Or I'm being reactive doesn'tmean that I'm being responsive.
I might not actually be hittingon what this person is asking
of me.
I may just want to show thatI'm available.
(35:35):
I'm available, but notnecessarily being of value,
which is challenging, and sothis is an app that was created
by Nina Westbrook.
I don't know if you're abasketball fan, excuse me, but
Russell Westbrook, his wife fan.
(35:58):
Excuse me, but RussellWestbrook, his wife.
She is a mental health advocate, she's an entrepreneur, and so
she helped develop this app.
I believe it is her app, so Ithought that was really cool,
that was very cool, yeah To see,see how how this helps me
engage more meaningfully in myone-to-one interactions, but
(36:22):
especially in my interactionsthat are asynchronous, so I can
kind of check in with myself tosay am I stressed out, am I
annoyed?
Where do I go from here?
How do I engage in a way that'sconsistent with my own
self-concept and how I want tocome across to other people?
Karen McFarlane (36:45):
I mean, that's reflection, right?
So you should always bethinking about your interactions
with people and the world andhow you're showing up.
I think my Nebby is one of mybest friends, cassandra, so she
gets the phone call where if I'mfrustrated by something or need
(37:07):
to talk something out, she getsthe phone call.
I rant and rave on the phonewith her.
She's very good at not reallygiving me her opinion, which is
really annoying sometimes, butshe's serving as an outlet and I
actually hear myself.
I hear myself turning the issuearound in my head and I can say
(37:28):
how I actually feel about it ina very safe space.
Oftentimes she has no idea evenlike what, who these people are
or what.
So she's also a vault, becauseshe doesn't have any concept for
what these people are, who theyare, the relation.
She's just listening.
And by the time I'm donetalking to her, I have done
verbal self-reflection, becausesometimes you know I can
(37:51):
enumerate in my head but I needto get it out and I know that I
need to say the words in orderfor me to move past it, and so
she's my outlet to do that.
So she's my Nebby.
And then by the time I'm done,I know how I'm feeling.
I know I need to take a beat,especially if I'm aggravated or
(38:17):
frustrated.
I need to give myself at leasta day.
And as I've gotten older andsometimes it's less, but as I've
gotten older, I realize I don'thave to care as much.
That sounds really bad, but Idon't need to sit in this.
Bad, but I don't need to sit inthis.
(38:39):
I can assign a level ofimportance or priority to it and
then mold my reaction around it.
And now I'm like is this reallyaffecting my world?
Is this really my problem,because I do take on other
people's things and so now I'mbetter at separating.
Is this truly my problem, or amI being helpful?
(39:01):
And how can I best be helpfulwith also, you know, also
without affecting myselfnegatively, cause I'm no good to
anyone if I'm emotionallycompromised, right?
So, um, you have to.
I think my point there is thateveryone has their own thing in
a way that they have to expressthemselves in their own outlets.
(39:23):
But it's important, like whatyou just talked about, to be
self-reflective in these momentsall the time, even in positive
situations, right, like you said, thank your past self right,
that's a reflection andunderstand how you really want
to move through the world andfind peace and joy and happiness
(39:43):
and productivity in what youwant to accomplish.
That's making it real.
Brittany S. Hale (39:54):
Love it.
Wasn't that such a goodconversation?
I know, I know I want listeners.
I want to hear from you, I wantto know what your favorite five
from the SPIT framework are,how you're engaging with that
day to day.
(40:14):
Let us know.
Karen McFarlane (40:17):
Definitely.
And you know what the best partis and this is really to all
the listeners Brittany and Italk every single week, but
every single week I learnsomething new, so we're
constantly growing.
Brittany S. Hale (40:31):
That's why you got to talk to people, exactly,
exactly.
Karen McFarlane (40:38):
All right, Brittany, you're going to teach
me something new next week, soI'll be looking forward to that
Ditto.
Bye Carious.
Hi Karen.
Karen McFarlane (00:02):
Hi, brittany, it's good to see you, I'm good.
Brittany S. Hale (00:08):
Oh, it's good to see you too.
Karen McFarlane (00:11):
I am good.
I am good.
It's been a good week, you know, and I'm hoping that the I love
hearing that, how about you?
Brittany S. Hale (00:23):
I'm doing well .
I'm doing well, I'm doing well.
You know, it is my favoriteseason, which is autumn, and I
think, at least where I liveright, there's always a very
visible shift from summer intoautumn.
Leaves get golden, the sunlightlooks a little bit different.
(00:44):
Seeing that golden light in themorning peeking through the,
the leaves that are falling on,it's all very um beautiful and
it makes me feel like I'm in anancy meyer film, which is like
um enjoyable.
So for now, I I think that wecould, every now and then we
(01:08):
have some episodes that are alittle bit, add some levity to
the space, and I just think thatthat now is a time where we can
bring a little bit more lightright.
Karen McFarlane (01:22):
let's do it.
Let's totally do it.
You know, we want to live in aspace of joy, right, and so
let's do it.
Brittany S. Hale (01:31):
Awesome, Awesome, Looking forward to that
.
So to our listeners, you knowwe're focusing on Aristotle's
five virtues.
We have the spent framework,and so I spent pun intended some
time thinking about some of myfavorite things or things that
(01:54):
may bring me joy according tothat spent framework.
So I thought maybe we couldchallenge ourselves to mention
things that either bring us joy,things that we're focused on,
or things in the past that wefound interesting using that
(02:14):
framework.
What do you think?
Karen McFarlane (02:17):
Let's give it a go, let's totally do it.
I mean, I think that makessense, and we also want people
to understand how to apply it,and we may have different ways
of applying it, which is cool,right, like it's not meant to be
rigid.
It's meant for us to bereflective and thoughtful about
how we approach life.
Brittany S. Hale (02:37):
Yes, absolutely Absolutely.
So.
The first one, of course, isSophia, which is the philosophic
wisdom, and I am currentlyreading a book.
This is not an endorsement.
I haven't gotten all the waythrough the book right now, but
it's something that at thispoint in time, I find really
(03:02):
interesting to engage with, andthat is the Prosperous Power of
your Subconscious Mind, byJoseph Murphy.
Have you read this?
I have not.
Ah, okay, so this book at thispoint is at least where I'm at
now.
It's really kind of teachingyou how to use the conscious
(03:23):
mind to deposit constructivethoughts into the subconscious
mind.
So I am someone who I alwayshave very vivid dreams.
You know I, in one night I canremember multiple dreams, which
I've heard is pretty unusual.
Karen McFarlane (03:44):
That is unusual .
By the way, this is one dream Ido remember.
You were in it, we were at theairport.
I'm only remembering it nowbecause we're talking.
We were at the airport and youhad a whole team that was
following us around for content.
That's all I remember, okay,but you were absolutely Okay.
Brittany S. Hale (04:05):
So we're going to take that subconscious
thought and amplify it and applyour conscious mind to it.
I love that we're going to bethere.
And so you know the book isessentially just saying by
changing thought patterns youcan reprogram your subconscious
(04:27):
to live a life that's morealigned with where you are.
So I don't know, for anybodylistening, if you're having
dreams of your teeth falling out, or you know you're on stage
and you know you experience asort of fright.
That suggests thatsubconsciously you may feel
vulnerable, you may feelpowerless, you may feel a number
(04:51):
of different things.
And so the book suggests that,even if consciously you're
saying, oh yeah, I love beingpositive, or you know I, yeah, I
absolutely feel empowered, andthen subconsciously you're
having either dreams orsituations happening in your
(05:12):
life that don't align with whatyou're espousing, it suggests
that there's some work to do.
So I just I really enjoy readingsome of the case studies in the
book and seeing how people areable to reprogram themselves.
I've been doing a little bit ofit myself, and my dreams are
(05:36):
normally again.
I have a number of dreams.
For the most part they're notbad at all, but I found myself
being more aware in my dream,like, oh, this is a dream and
this is really cool, so I can dowhat I want.
So right now I'm going to makeXYZ happen.
Karen McFarlane (05:53):
So I like that, I like that, so I like the fact
that you are yeah, I like thefact that you're like actively
speaking out educationalresources to do that and then
trying to apply them to yourreal life.
That's a really smart way to doit.
I'm not doing it that way.
So for my Sophia, it's reallytrying to understand my why, and
(06:23):
that has changed for me overtime, and I actually view this
time as a era of recalibrationaround my purpose, and so I have
defined my purpose as justbeing better than before.
So being better than before formyself, but also in my
(06:44):
engagements with clients or inmy volunteer roles or however
I'm engaging in the world.
And so I ask that question andapply that mantra, that
philosophy, to, I would say,most of the things that I'm
doing.
I'm practicing it, so it's not100 percent right.
So what is my why and does itapply to my mantra?
(07:07):
And so once I do that, I canhopefully manifest these things
in a way that supports thosegoals, and then I will feel more
aligned.
And it's about my thinking also.
So even before I go to sleep,just to kind of piggyback on
(07:29):
your dreams, I try to centerthose thoughts before I go to
bed.
Maybe they're coming up in mydreams and I don't remember.
I don't remember a lot ofthings that happen in the
daytime when I'm conscious Fairenough in the daytime when I'm
conscious, fair enough.
But I'm hoping that by doingthat I'm taking steps to make
(07:51):
all of those things come toreality.
I know I need to do more, Ican't just think about it, but
that's just a starting point forme.
Brittany S. Hale (07:59):
I love that.
I love that and I'm lookingforward to updates.
I know you said it's starting,so I'm looking forward to
updates as it continues.
Karen McFarlane (08:11):
It's a work in progress, right, definitely.
Brittany S. Hale (08:17):
Totally into it.
Okay, so the next is the P inour SPINT framework, which is
phronesis, and that's practicalwisdom, I believe.
Yeah, using your good judgment.
Yeah, do you want to kick thisoff?
Karen McFarlane (08:34):
Well.
So I guess that would be likethe next step in my
purpose-driven approach, right?
Like really asking myself whatis the approach I'm taking in
the interactions that I havewith the world and with what I'm
doing, right?
So I'm now just not thinkingabout it.
(08:57):
How am I, what's my methodologyfor achieving it?
Now, this is something that Ihave to work on, okay,
continuously, because I havelots of thoughts, lots of
thoughts, and my mind has alwaysbeen this way since I've been
(09:20):
young.
I have lots of ideas.
I can write of ideas.
I can, you know, write themdown, but they also take a
certain amount of discipline toactivate them, and the more
ideas I have, the more bandwidthI need and I need to prioritize
more.
So that's something that I haveto focus on is how do I
(09:43):
prioritize not only the idea orthe initiative, but the levels
of effort that are required toachieve them?
You know, I'm not a person thatwill focus on just one thing.
I need to have a couple ofthings to focus on.
That's just how my mind works.
It jumps around, but that's anarea of opportunity for me, but
(10:08):
also something that I'm good at,right.
So it's just about having morediscipline around that and then
also understanding which kind offlows into the other one, so I
won't get into them like what ismy intuition versus what is
factual information versus whatis something else right, and so
that's just really honing mymethodology around the judgment
(10:29):
aspect of it.
Brittany S. Hale (10:31):
How about you?
I think it's really cool.
I love that.
Actually, I was just thinkingabout the practicalism, and I
agree with you.
At any given time I'm probablyreading like between three and
five books, and they're all sodifferent, but they all feed and
nourish me, you know.
(10:52):
So I can't choose very often,so I admire the ability to
prioritize.
So my phrenesis, my practicalwisdom, is looking out for
future me.
Here's what I mean when I saythat I don't know if you've ever
(11:12):
had a moment where, let's say,you changed purses and for
people who don't carry purses,that can always be challenging,
because you may have somethingin one purse that you need later
on.
You know it could be somethingas practical as your wallet.
Or you know lip balm, sunscreen, you know hand sanitizer,
(11:33):
whatever it is.
Have you ever had a momentwhere you thought you forgot
something?
You look in and you feel thatsigh of relief oh my gosh, it's
here All the time.
Karen McFarlane (11:44):
I think I forget stuff all the time.
Yes, I make fun of relief.
Oh my gosh, it's here.
Brittany S. Hale (11:46):
Yeah, all the time I think I forget stuff all
the time.
Karen McFarlane (11:47):
Yes, so when I don't, I'm like yay.
Brittany S. Hale (11:52):
Exactly so.
I've had these moments whereI'm just like thank you, past me
, oh, look at past me, lookingout for future me, and it could
be something like buying anextra pack of paper towels.
So when I run out and I think,man, I have to go to the grocery
store, I look in my pantry andI see, oh my gosh, you know, I
(12:14):
have another 12 rolls to go.
Thank you, fast Me.
But more recently, I can'tremember where I got it.
Maybe it was, I don't know,some home store, but I got this
mini griddle.
It's a little circular griddleand it is the perfect size for
(12:34):
making breakfast sandwiches.
So on the bottom you can putlike an English muffin and it's
a layered griddle.
So on a separate layer you canlike crack an egg and the egg
will cook like meat, veggies,whatever you want to put on
there, and then there's anotherlayer that will also grill the
(12:55):
top of the um, the englishmuffin.
But what's really interesting,it has like a little, a little
slide, so the egg, once it'scooked, will now just perfectly
drop on top of the Englishmuffin.
Oh, wow, I know this soundssilly, but for someone I love my
(13:15):
mornings and more recently Ihave to every now and then I
have to get going an earliertime than I normally would.
So to make my breakfast atnight, to make my iced coffee,
to make my little breakfastsandwich that I can heat up and
(13:37):
then just go and let go.
It feels like such a practicaland loving act to do for my
future self, so that I canguarantee ease going forward.
So, yeah, that's my practicalwisdom.
Karen McFarlane (13:54):
First of all, I just want to say that the whole
thanking your past self, Ithink, is just an amazing thing
to do, because we often don'tgive ourselves credit for
thinking ahead.
I know I don't so like in mypresent me moment, I'm more
likely to acknowledge my past mein a frustrating sense, right
(14:18):
Like oh gosh, I didn't do thisbefore, I didn't think about
this, or whatever.
But when you are happy withyourself, reflecting on what you
did, right, I think is animportant step that I know that
I miss.
So that's awesome that you dothat.
I can put that into practicenow.
Brittany S. Hale (14:40):
Future Karen and Brittany will appreciate us
recording now More content toshare, absolutely.
Karen McFarlane (14:49):
Absolutely.
Brittany S. Hale (14:53):
I love that, all right.
Karen McFarlane (14:56):
You want to take our E Episteme is just like
knowing the facts.
So you know.
This is like how are youbacking up your assumptions
overall?
Right, and that's you know,doing the research you know.
You know you may have, like Imay have a thought right and I
(15:17):
believe my thought to be true,but how do I know it's true?
And so I'm always trying tovalidate myself with more
information.
Right, I am an avid user of, youknow, ai, right, so I may start
there.
But also just general reading,you know, at the end of the day,
(15:41):
but sometimes, because, as Isaid earlier, I have all these
ideas and all these thoughts,it's just very easy for me to
plug that in to chat GPT orClaude.
I use a couple of differentones and seek out resources to
help me think more criticallyabout whatever that idea is, and
(16:02):
sometimes it validates me andsometimes it doesn't.
I actually ask the tool topoint out what's wrong, what's
missing, what the challenges are.
I know it's there to please meand I'm like I don't need you to
make me feel good, I need youto give me the information.
As a side note, and I hope Isaved it because I meant to
(16:26):
implement this.
There's a prompt out there thatencourages ChatGPT to be very
brutal with you and, like all ofthe fluff and all of that, I've
tried to write instructions tothat extent because I want the
no nonsense.
But anyway, that's one of thetools that I use in addition to
(16:48):
seeking my own resources throughGoogle or just reading.
You just have to expand yourmind, whether it's a magazine I
subscribe to, hbr andEntrepreneur, some of these
different things, and just getthat perspective.
Brittany S. Hale (17:03):
Absolutely.
I could not agree with you more.
You know there's a book calledEmpire of AI I don't know if
you've read it by Karen Howe,and I find it fascinating to get
scientific knowledge on what AIis and is capable of, what it
(17:26):
is not capable of and theconsequences not only to myself
but to my environment but to myown ability to reason and think
critically.
So that is my episteme.
Karen McFarlane (17:44):
Well, you're an avid reader, so you're always
gathering facts data pointsconstantly.
Brittany S. Hale (17:54):
um, if you've ever done the clifton strengths,
one of my top five strengths isinput, which is, you know, just
kind of being this seeminglyendless consumer of information
and being able to kind of pullit out as needed.
Karen McFarlane (18:14):
So yeah, yeah, that's one of your, that's
definitely one of your strengthsand superpowers is the ability
to get all that data but alsothink about it critically and
form your own opinions about it,right To kind of use it
holistically, so that totallytracks.
Brittany S. Hale (18:35):
All right, and then you alluded to noose.
Do you want to go into that alittle bit?
Karen McFarlane (19:01):
Yeah.
So this one's interesting.
This is about strong, a strongintuition about things.
Right, I have a high IQ, I havethese, I have these attributes
that I didn't think wereimportant for a very long time
and I didn't lean on.
(19:21):
And so now I do, because I'veproven to myself year after year
after year that my gut isusually right.
Now will I go solely with mygut?
No, I will give my gut anopportunity to have.
I will have to prove if my gutis still true, but in a
(19:44):
different way.
Right.
So now I was was before.
I was like, well, I shouldn'treally go with my gut and may or
may not be true, like it wasjust a hedging.
Now I'm like, well, it's likelytrue.
However, you still have to usethe other tools in order to
validate or invalidate and thethe point there is be willing to
(20:06):
invalidate as well, because ifyou're looking for what you want
to be true, you will findevidence to back that up.
So this is why all these thingskind of work together, but it
is an attribute that I do have,naturally, and I shouldn't
ignore it.
I should use it as a data pointfor everything that I'm
thinking of, to either pursue ornot pursue, or to support or
(20:28):
not support the original thoughtor idea that I'm thinking about
.
So that's kind of how I thinkabout my intuition.
Now it's to accept it and toappreciate it in a way that I
haven't in the past.
Brittany S. Hale (20:48):
You said a word and I'm just.
I'm thinking of it almost as amuscle, right.
And continuing to use it so youcan develop a better
relationship with it.
Yes, well said Self.
Yeah, I think self-trust hasbeen one of the biggest hurdles.
You know I mean I for listenersmaybe you understand this.
(21:12):
If you're the eldest child,especially the eldest daughter,
if you're in any way type A, ifyou've had to be the first to do
anything, be the first to doanything, that fear of not even
(21:32):
failing but just to be seentrying without achieving
immediately is terrifying.
You know, there's a joke aboutthe millennials who were gifted
and talented all their lives andnow they're just completely
burnt out as adults because theyfollowed the script right.
You did the program, you gotthe straight A's, you did the
fellowships, you did everythingyou were supposed to do, and you
(21:57):
arrive to adulthood to see thatthere is no script, there is no
roadmap and it's really justyou having to figure out what
works best for you, and that canbe terrifying.
And so to your point aboutself-trust and developing that
intuition.
That's something that I'mleaning into With EQ.
(22:22):
So there's something called theCohen test.
I don't know if you're familiarwith it.
Many of our listeners may befamiliar with Sasha Baron Cohen,
who's actually a cousin.
The Cohen test is very oftenused to gauge whether or not
people are on the spectrum.
(22:43):
It's not definitive, I want tobe very clear about that, but it
gauges EQ and the test is justyou seeing a series of eyes and
you were supposed to guess theemotion based on the eyes alone.
And of course you know thereare perhaps cultural differences
(23:09):
and things like that, but onthe whole it gives people a
sense of where people are.
So during times like thepandemic, where a lot of times
people were wearing a mask andall you could see were eyes, you
would think that thepopulation's eq would have risen
, but it dropped.
(23:29):
So, uh, the average person's eqis usually on the the cohen
test.
People usually score somewherebetween like a 40 to 60 percent
um.
And so I remember I wasspeaking with, uh, the professor
(23:52):
I was, I was working with, andso I told her my score because
I'd gotten a 96, and she, herface, she, she freaked out,
she's oh, oh, that's amazing.
So to your point, because Iwould love to hear all of the
(24:12):
ways that your news, yourintuition, has helped you in
marketing.
I know it's helped me whenpartnerships and find spaces of
connection, because you're ableto calculate right to take into
(24:32):
account all of the differentpoints.
Oh, you know her.
She's nodding, her eyebrowmoved.
Maybe she agrees with thispoint, maybe she doesn't.
Maybe that's a point for us todelve further into.
Karen McFarlane (24:53):
All of these things are happening at rapid
speed, right In milliseconds.
So it's interesting.
And the only reason I say thatis because, although it is
correct most of the time in myapproach to marketing strategy,
(25:14):
I can't use that alone One,because people don't believe me.
So it's not fair.
I think that's like 90% of thereason.
Like people are just not goingto well, karen just thinks
that's the way it should go.
You know it needs to be backedup by data, and so I distinctly
remember, just earlier on in mycareer, being challenged on my
(25:37):
noose around my marketingstrategy, and I remember being
very annoyed by that because I'mlike I just know it's right,
like this is the way it'ssupposed to be.
I know I understand people, Iunderstand their intentions, I
know what makes them tick orwhat their pain points are.
I know this, okay, but peopledon't believe that.
(25:59):
I just know it.
They want to see why I knew it.
I knew it, and they wanted thedata to back it up.
This early in my career I waslike, oh, you need data why I
know it to be true, and so Ilearned that I had to back up
(26:22):
what they thought wereassumptions, and I guess you
could.
Yeah, so it does help in termsof understanding the direction
you may want to go into, but youstill need episteme.
You need to partner withepisteme right in order to move
(26:42):
people along with you.
Again, you're supposed tovalidate right, but you also
need buy-in and cooperation, andso you have to pair it with
something else.
Brittany S. Hale (26:52):
And so you have to pair it with something
else, absolutely, and I think wesee that often, right.
So I think when we look atleaders who have been able to
tap into their intuition, theydo quite well.
I'm thinking of the CEO ofCostco, right, who, when paired
with certain knowledge, just sayhey, hey, this is what a lot of
(27:16):
these other big box retailersare doing, this is what we
should do.
The instinct to say no, we'regonna, we're gonna keep our hot
dogs at a dollar fifty, we'regoing to keep certain
initiatives, we're going to dothings our way, regardless of
what the market is doing.
Yeah, and to see anybody who'sinvested in Costco has had a
(27:40):
really great year, because theepisteme of it all shows that is
proof positive of thatintuition, to see that those
instincts are paying off realdividends to folks.
Karen McFarlane (28:00):
Yeah, and over the past I don't know 10, 15, 20
years we've become a verydata-driven society, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
But for the times before thatwe weren't, and we did rely on
our instincts.
We did rely more on havinghigher EQs, I would say right,
(28:27):
because we took time tounderstand people differently
than we do now, which isessentially reducing them to
metrics.
Right, and especially in theconsumer market.
Right, those metrics are ficklebecause people change their
mind instantly.
(28:50):
Right, to try to understand,for example, you know, if I go
into a store, why I would buythis over that.
I think it's very difficultbecause you have no idea really
and truly what's going on insidehere, what's going to motivate
me.
You can influence motivation,right, you could try to
(29:10):
basically for lack of a betterterm manipulate or trick me into
something different, but youreally had no idea and that, and
even if I told you the daybefore, it might've changed the
(29:31):
day after.
And so it's always tricky interms of developing meaningful,
long-term, authenticrelationships with people where
you have to actually talk tothem, and it's hard to do that
at scale, and we're trying to doeverything at scale, but
there's so much of a differencewhen I have a conversation with
(29:54):
you rather than when I look at asurvey you filled out, right,
and that's where your instinctsbuilt on potentially years of
work and study and research andusing the SPENT framework, even
(30:15):
if you didn't know you wereusing it or not come into play
so that, like you said, you cantrust your instincts and those
instincts are more likely to becorrect because of your past
practices and your criticalthinking and your depth of
understanding of who youraudience is.
So maybe back then, earlier inmy career, although I had good
(30:38):
instincts and people didn'tbelieve me, now they're even
better.
So, while you may or may nothave the data, my instincts are
closer to the data that youwould receive.
Not saying you shouldn't stillprove it, but if you didn't have
it at this point in time,you're probably still in good
(30:58):
hands with me, right, because mypast, oh, I like.
So there's something thatyou've done for instincts in a
positive way.
Brittany S. Hale (31:10):
Exactly Do you want to round us out?
Karen McFarlane (31:16):
So techne is just about making it all real.
So you know, that's just likehow do you activate your goals
or your project or whatever withintention, and I think that for
me, it has to link back to mypurpose.
(31:38):
So it starts with the Sophia.
All over again, I've thoughtabout my why.
I'm trying to exercise goodjudgment in terms of my approach
.
I'm sourcing the facts, I'mleveraging my intuition and I'm
taking all of those things inorder to put that into action,
(32:02):
whether it's a very specificplan or whether it's hey, you
know what am I going to do todayto make my future self happy?
And it's the thought that youput into at the end of the day,
(32:22):
whether it's a small thing or alarger thing, in activating it
from idea to execution.
I love that.
How about you?
How do you make it real foryourself?
Brittany S. Hale (32:39):
Every time you share something, I'm like, yes,
let me just let me compute.
So you're absolutely right inthat these are all tied together
right, and I think that's thepoint of the framework is to
have each of these virtuesinterwoven into and feed into
(33:03):
what you do, how you think, say,and what you interact with.
So, because you know we'vespoken a lot about books and
reading, and input and data, oneof the things that I love, that
I keep on me at all times, ismy phone, but I engage with apps
(33:23):
that help me more meaningfullyengage, and one of them is the
Nebby app.
Have you heard of the Nebby?
Karen McFarlane (33:34):
app.
I'm always learning about newstuff from you, so tell me about
the Nebby app.
Have you heard of the Nebby app?
I'm always learning about newstuff from you, so tell me about
the Nebby app.
I love it.
How do you spell?
Brittany S. Hale (33:40):
it Okay.
So Nebby is N, as in Nancy E, bas in Brittany B as in Brittany
I.
So it's called the Nebby appand it is a wellness companion.
It identifies itself as a dailymood coach and it use
psychology backed tools andprompts to help you feel calmer,
(34:02):
clearer and more in control,one step at a time.
So it's grounded in cognitivebehavioral therapy CBT.
If anybody's ever had any sortof engagement with therapy, that
is a methodology and it has ahuman first approach.
So I like the idea of eventhough I'm engaging with my
phone, I'm still focusing onbeing human first, and it's
(34:27):
designed to build emotionalregulation and reset your mental
state.
So it is fascinating to seethese kind of check-ins because
you can check in and it'll sayyou know, how are you feeling
right now, what emotion feelsstrongest at this moment?
And because we live in a worldthat is so quick, sometimes
(34:52):
we're acting on emotions beforewe identify them.
So we might be sending off thatemail, sending off that text
message response when, if wekind of paused a moment to say
I'm actually operating from fear, that might not be something
that I want to do, or I justwant to prove that I'm being
(35:13):
responsive, or I just want toprove that I'm being responsive,
and that doesn't necessarilymean that I am.
Or I'm being reactive doesn'tmean that I'm being responsive.
I might not actually be hittingon what this person is asking
of me.
I may just want to show thatI'm available.
(35:35):
I'm available, but notnecessarily being of value,
which is challenging, and sothis is an app that was created
by Nina Westbrook.
I don't know if you're abasketball fan, excuse me, but
Russell Westbrook, his wife fan.
(35:58):
Excuse me, but RussellWestbrook, his wife.
She is a mental health advocate, she's an entrepreneur, and so
she helped develop this app.
I believe it is her app, so Ithought that was really cool,
that was very cool, yeah To see,see how how this helps me
engage more meaningfully in myone-to-one interactions, but
(36:22):
especially in my interactionsthat are asynchronous, so I can
kind of check in with myself tosay am I stressed out, am I
annoyed?
Where do I go from here?
How do I engage in a way that'sconsistent with my own
self-concept and how I want tocome across to other people?
Karen McFarlane (36:45):
I mean, that's reflection, right?
So you should always bethinking about your interactions
with people and the world andhow you're showing up.
I think my Nebby is one of mybest friends, cassandra, so she
gets the phone call where if I'mfrustrated by something or need
(37:07):
to talk something out, she getsthe phone call.
I rant and rave on the phonewith her.
She's very good at not reallygiving me her opinion, which is
really annoying sometimes, butshe's serving as an outlet and I
actually hear myself.
I hear myself turning the issuearound in my head and I can say
(37:28):
how I actually feel about it ina very safe space.
Oftentimes she has no idea evenlike what, who these people are
or what.
So she's also a vault, becauseshe doesn't have any concept for
what these people are, who theyare, the relation.
She's just listening.
And by the time I'm donetalking to her, I have done
verbal self-reflection, becausesometimes you know I can
(37:51):
enumerate in my head but I needto get it out and I know that I
need to say the words in orderfor me to move past it, and so
she's my outlet to do that.
So she's my Nebby.
And then by the time I'm done,I know how I'm feeling.
I know I need to take a beat,especially if I'm aggravated or
(38:17):
frustrated.
I need to give myself at leasta day.
And as I've gotten older andsometimes it's less, but as I've
gotten older, I realize I don'thave to care as much.
That sounds really bad, but Idon't need to sit in this.
Bad, but I don't need to sit inthis.
(38:39):
I can assign a level ofimportance or priority to it and
then mold my reaction around it.
And now I'm like is this reallyaffecting my world?
Is this really my problem,because I do take on other
people's things and so now I'mbetter at separating.
Is this truly my problem, or amI being helpful?
(39:01):
And how can I best be helpfulwith also, you know, also
without affecting myselfnegatively, cause I'm no good to
anyone if I'm emotionallycompromised, right?
So, um, you have to.
I think my point there is thateveryone has their own thing in
a way that they have to expressthemselves in their own outlets.
(39:23):
But it's important, like whatyou just talked about, to be
self-reflective in these momentsall the time, even in positive
situations, right, like you said, thank your past self right,
that's a reflection andunderstand how you really want
to move through the world andfind peace and joy and happiness
(39:43):
and productivity in what youwant to accomplish.
That's making it real.
Brittany S. Hale (39:54):
Love it.
Wasn't that such a goodconversation?
I know, I know I want listeners.
I want to hear from you, I wantto know what your favorite five
from the SPIT framework are,how you're engaging with that
day to day.
(40:14):
Let us know.
Karen McFarlane (40:17):
Definitely.
And you know what the best partis and this is really to all
the listeners Brittany and Italk every single week, but
every single week I learnsomething new, so we're
constantly growing.
Brittany S. Hale (40:31):
That's why you got to talk to people, exactly,
exactly.
Karen McFarlane (40:38):
All right, Brittany, you're going to teach
me something new next week, soI'll be looking forward to that
Ditto.
Bye Carious.
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