September 2, 2025 • 42 mins
What does it take to belong, and what are we willing to trade for acceptance? In this episode of The E Word, we discuss the spectacle of “Bama Rush,” where sorority recruitment at the University of Alabama has become a high-stakes, high-cost performance.
From rush coaches charging thousands to curated Instagram feeds and rehearsed conversations, we explore how young women are taught to shape-shift for approval—often at the expense of authenticity. Alongside this, we reflect on the deeper legacy of Divine Nine organizations and the stark contrasts in values, community, and cultural significance.
This conversation goes beyond Greek life. It’s about power, identity, and the tension between who we are and who we think we need to be. As networks become currency in an uncertain world, how do we raise a generation rooted in self-trust, not just social strategy, and how do we answer the question: who are you becoming to belong?
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- Follow Brittany on LinkedIn and learn more at BND Consulting Group.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Karen McFarlane (00:01):
Hi Brittany.
Hi Karen, how are you?
I'm good.
I am good.
I am excited for anotherepisode of Season 3.
And today, I think we're goingto talk about something that
really links back to our newframework around, our new focus
(00:24):
on eudaimonia.
Brittany S. Hale (00:26):
Yes, yeah, and for our listeners, would you
mind sharing a little bit aboutthe framework?
Karen McFarlane (00:31):
Yes, so basically we are focused on
eudaimonia, which means humanflourishing.
So we wanted to switch up alittle bit how we talked about
our views on leadership, culture, business, politics, just the
whole environment, the wholeclimate, and we came up with
(00:53):
this framework, but it'sactually ripped from Aristotle's
five values, five virtues, andso we can remember it, and so
you can remember it it is theSPENT framework S-P-E-N-T, and
SPENT stands for five differentGreek words S is for Sophia,
(01:16):
which is understand whysomething matters.
P is for phronesis, which isuse good judgment.
E is for episteme, which isknow the facts.
N is for nous trust yourintuition, and techne is the T,
which means make it real.
That is the spent framework andthat's how we're going to be
(01:37):
talking about our subjectmatters going forward.
Brittany S. Hale (01:41):
Excellent, Excellent.
So you know, all this talkabout Aristotle is jogging my
mind and what's been all acrossmy algorithm, which is Bama Rush
.
Are you familiar with Bama Rush?
Karen McFarlane (01:58):
I'm not familiar with Bama Rush, so tell
me about it.
Brittany S. Hale (02:01):
I'm happy to share because you may think,
what does Alabama and Aristotlehave in common?
And the first thing is, ofcourse, bama Rush is in
reference to the week Rush Weekthat happens at the University
of Alabama.
So family members have gone tothe University of Alabama,
(02:23):
family members have joinedsororities at the University of
Alabama and I've seen a fewarticles about women who acted
as consultants for families whoare interested in getting their
daughters into certainsororities while at the
University of Alabama.
(02:43):
So I'm going to explain my veryrudimentary understanding of
Bama Rush.
I should let you know any andeverything that I've learned is
through anecdotal storytellingand social media, but I'm happy
to ground you, karen.
Karen McFarlane (03:01):
Please, because , just for transparency, I've
never pledged a sorority.
I'm not familiar with you knowother than what I've seen
randomly on social media andsome anecdotes from people
around you.
Know the process of evengetting in.
I know a little bit about RushWeek, but I don't really know
much about Rush Week, so anyintel you can provide me would
(03:25):
be fantastic.
Brittany S. Hale (03:26):
Absolutely, and I should also be very, very
clear that this discussion aboutRush Week is firmly grounded in
the Panhellenic Council, whichis different from the NPHC.
The NPHC consists of what wecall the Divine Nine, which are
(03:50):
the Black founded sororities andfraternities, many of which
were founded at HowardUniversity.
Some were founded at otheruniversities throughout the
country, and so that is a verydifferent experience.
The D9 or Divine Nineexperience is very different
(04:11):
from the rush that happens withthe National Panhellenic Council
.
Karen McFarlane (04:17):
Okay.
Brittany S. Hale (04:17):
All right, that's good to know Okay.
I was definitely thinking aboutthe Divine Nine and it makes a
lot of sense because there aremultiple members of my family
who are part of the D9 and Ihave a healthy respect for them
and so the main difference thatI've been able to see I also
(04:41):
have family members who'verushed in various fraternities
that were not part of the D9.
With the D9, of course, therecomes the kind of lifetime
commitment right.
So for many of us when we thinkabout rush, we may think about
or we think about sororities orfraternities.
We think about the four yearsof your undergraduate experience
(05:04):
In the Divine Nine, thoserelationships, that commitment
to service and sisterhood andall of those things.
That is a lifetime commitment.
For the rest of your life youwill be involved.
I have family members who arelifetime members or you know
(05:25):
they've been involved in theirsororities for 25 years plus, so
they are in it.
Karen McFarlane (05:33):
Yeah, I was just thinking of a friend of
mine who's an alpha on thepaternal side who is totally in
it, you know from college, waspresident, still actively
involved, wears all the gearanytime he can just the whole
representation.
But another really cool part ofit is the network that you
(05:56):
develop over that time and thefact that once you find out that
you know your fellow sororityor fraternity member, that
there's an instant connectionthat you can leverage 1,000%.
Brittany S. Hale (06:09):
I should note that our one of our most, our
most recent woman vice presidentis a member of the D9.
She's a member of Alpha KappaAlpha Sorority Incorporated.
Alpha Kappa, alpha SororityIncorporated.
And, yeah, you're absolutelyright, and the difference in
that is that you can stillobtain membership through the
(06:32):
graduate process, right, theundergraduate process, junior
graduate process.
Bama Rush, we're solely focusingon the undergraduate experience
, so, using the spent framework,why does this matter?
So this matters for a fewreasons.
One to your point aboutnetworking.
This is really the seed and thegenesis of how many people form
(07:00):
professional and personalnetworks at the beginning of
their undergraduate experience.
This is also a phenomenon thatshifts your algorithm if you're
on TikTok or other forms ofsocial media, and it is
ironically, believe it or not,it is also a time-honored
(07:23):
tradition, right, we have tonsof traditions.
So there's a, there's a womanwho is her family.
Both parents went to theuniversity of alabama and the
colors, I believe, are crimsonand white, and they are so
(07:44):
committed, so focused on theirexperience, that her maiden name
which has since changed becauseshe's now married with children
, but our maiden name wascrimson and white, oh, middle
name and a n?
N?
E last name, white.
(08:05):
Oh, that's very creative, okay.
So, understanding why itmatters, there's a uh, there's a
personal uh, there's there's asense of tradition and there's
this sense of community which,as social creatures, we, we, as
humans, we love.
Right Now let's talk about thepractical wisdom and using good
(08:29):
judgment.
So, with BAM to Rush during thisweek, if you are planning to
rush, meaning that you have anintent to join or for this
purpose we'll talk aboutsororities Then you move in one
week before other students,because you participate in
what's called brush week, andyou will list all of the
(08:54):
sororities that you areinterested in and I will show
you videos.
These are very highly producedintroductions you have, you know
, if you think of I don't knowif you saw the movie House Bunny
, it was a spoof on sororitiesbut you have these big mansions
(09:20):
that these students live in andyou have dozens of girls who are
dancing these choreographeddances.
They're, all you know, hittingtheir eight counts and they live
in these homes and it is, it'sa huge deal of care.
Okay, it sounds like fun, andso you attend events.
(09:45):
The goal of doing thesechoreographed intros is to
become attractive and to attractthe best girls, right, the best
students and these girls willgo to events, they will get to
know the sisters of thatparticular sorority and then the
(10:06):
sisters will what's called makea bid on them.
And so, over the course of theweek, you will get a letter that
lets you know who's bid on youand you continue to attend their
events.
And then, finally, you will seethat one of two sororities have
(10:27):
bid on you.
And now, with the advent ofsocial media, girls will record
themselves opening up their bidletters, screaming in joy,
falling out in tears.
Okay, so now the practicalwisdom comes in.
The scientific knowledge of itis that there are hundreds of
(10:52):
thousands of dollars, if notmillions of dollars, that goes
into this whole process.
Why, do you ask?
Girls try to positionthemselves in high school as
influencers because they havethe goal of being, they want to
(11:13):
be chosen, they want to be bidon, they want to have the
experience.
So you want to go to a schoolthat has a very vibrant Greek
life and these properties thatthe sororities and fraternities
own, these are historicproperties.
(11:34):
Some have been on this land formore than 100 years.
These up, these things, theycome with maids, chefs.
(11:58):
It's a really interesting life.
But now there's a new ecosystemof sorority consultants which
are women who may be part ofsome of these storied sororities
, and they provide positionalconsulting for these students to
be appealing.
So what kind of photo shootsare you going to have?
(12:18):
What is your Instagram grouplike?
What kind of clothes are yougoing to wear?
So, if they are, you know, ifthey're a, for example, if
they're a Burberry group, thenyou need to show up and you need
to wear Burberry.
If you, you know, you have towear Tiffany.
(12:39):
You know all of this.
So it's a very expensiveendeavor at the outset, so I'll
just pause there.
I'm throwing a lot ofinformation at you.
Karen McFarlane (12:53):
Yeah, okay, wow .
Brittany S. Hale (12:57):
Now, of course , we've heard of, and maybe done
so, hiring tutors for yourchild.
Right College consultants tomake sure that your child can
get into the best collegepossible.
Consultants to make sure thatyour child can get into the best
college possible.
Karen McFarlane (13:17):
Have you heard of a sorority consulting?
No, I'm going to go back andask a question.
Why is this so important tobecome part of a sorority or
fraternity?
I mean, I know I talked aboutthe networking aspect of it and
the long-term value, but arethere other benefits that I'm
unaware of?
Brittany S. Hale (13:39):
So the benefits of it is relationships
mainly, right, it's all in whoyou know.
Okay, how often have you saidit's not what you know, all in
who you know.
How often have we said it's notwhat you know, it's who you
know.
And so this one, can you trulyput a cost on happiness?
Right, if your child isconvinced that this would be the
(14:01):
epitome of a college experiencethat you need to have have.
And so there are a number ofsororities where these are
daughters of some of the mostelite families throughout the
(14:22):
United States.
Indeed, some of the girls whoare bidding, the girls already
in the sorority, are, at times,even looking at the address and
researching their home addresson Zillow to get a sense of how
much the parents make before thegirls are attending.
Okay, so disturbing.
Karen McFarlane (14:46):
This is so true .
Brittany S. Hale (14:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
So when you have theseconsultants who are giving all
sorts of advice, there's onewoman who was recently featured
in New York magazine.
Her name is Tricia Addicts andshe's the first official rush
coach in her coaching serviceand she's the first official
(15:09):
rush coach In her coachingservice at this point.
She employs 19 people that shepairs with clients across the
country, and many of them aremoving to Southern schools.
So, to your point, what is thebenefit of this?
It's moving to a Southernschool, which may have
(15:36):
particular attitude orperspective on some of the ideas
that we've talked about in thepast, right?
So if your daughter's fromupstate New York and she wants
to go to the University ofAlabama or University of South
Carolina, her worldview may ormay not be framed by that
four-year experience.
Many of these girls expect tomarry, right?
So I'll just pause there.
Karen McFarlane (15:59):
Okay, so I'm having some mixed reactions
around it.
At first, when you startedtalking, I thought that some
aspects of it were positive,right, in terms of there are
certain skills that are beingdeveloped in order to, number
one, attract people to yourorganization, your sorority,
(16:21):
your fraternity.
And you know you're learning Idon't know marketing and sales
and communication skills throughthat process of doing the
attraction and then also asbeing courted, right, that is,
you trying to identify what'sthe best place for you,
especially when you're young andin college, and you're
(16:42):
developing these skills.
Right, selling yourself,dealing with acceptance, but
also dealing with rejection andall the things that come with
that.
So those are upsides to me.
The idea of bidding, or thatword, was very jarring to, but,
(17:06):
um, I guess it's kind of similarto in sports.
You know the trading and andall of that.
So I'll just ignore that for asecond.
But this whole idea of sellingor coaching in a way it's still
(17:31):
sales for access and proximityis disconcerting, because
college in some ways is aboutleveling the playing field in
some ways.
Obviously, you have to get intocollege and be able to pay for
it and there's other aspects ofthat.
But in terms of therelationships that are being
(17:54):
formed and the perspectives thatare being formed.
That's supposed to createopportunity, no matter where you
come from or what yoursocioeconomic background is.
Brittany S. Hale (18:06):
I'm going to start you right there.
Okay, I apologize, backgroundis, and so the fact that you're
right there.
Okay, keep that thought becauseyou're absolutely right.
College is supposed to be quitea democratic small d experience
.
You get to engage with peoplewho have different backgrounds
(18:26):
and you either leave college,you know, feeling more strongly
about some of the ideals thatyou came in with, and you either
leave college, you know,feeling more strongly about some
of the ideals that you came inwith and you're fortifying with
the knowledge to support them,or maybe you think completely
differently about some of theideals that you've been brought
up with and the values and theideas.
So I'm going to go into ourkind of scientific knowledge
(18:50):
right, our evidence, and I'llgive you a sense of the costs
around Bama Rush.
So let's assume your daughtergets a bid, congratulations.
This is an average, and this isan average that some social
(19:10):
media influencers who haverushed to share on social media.
So there's a $4,000 membershipfee.
There's a $350 registration fee.
In-house fee per semester canbe anywhere from $7,000 to
(19:35):
$10,000.
And then there's a $1,500 to$3,000 council fee for the
Panhellenic Council.
So, given some of these fees,the coach has like an online
pre-recorded course, a series ofvideos.
That's about $149.
But if you want the one-to-onecoaching, that's going to be
around $5,000 for the one-to-onecoaching.
(20:01):
So I will just pause rightthere.
What is your reaction to whatI've shared?
Karen McFarlane (20:10):
Well, I think my quick math was like somewhere
between $30,000 to $35,000,right?
So now we've I didn't eventhink about it for a semester.
So that's insane, first of all,and not to mention the costs
(20:31):
before you even get to thatprocess, right, because you
mentioned that girls are tryingto create their personal brands
and become major influencers,and all of that just to be
recognized, right, and all ofthat Makeup, hair nails, all of
(20:53):
it, yep, exactly, designerbrands that they may or may not
be able to afford, things ofthat nature.
So you have all of that.
Then you have to go into thisprocess and spend all this money
, and it actually is justfeeding into same certain groups
, right, that have access tothose money, to those monies,
(21:14):
right, and doesn't create thesmall D democratic process that
is necessary for people to growand thrive and understand from a
global perspective, like whatthe world is really like, and so
it's just reinforcing seeminglyold or traditional concepts
(21:38):
about who should benefit andhave that access over the long
term, and it's just the dominoeffect.
Brittany S. Hale (21:47):
Yeah, so that takes us into our end right, the
the intuitive understanding,the noose of it all.
Because I should be quite clearthat these sororities do a ton
of public service, they do a tonof volunteering and we have a
uh, a clear understanding of theinvestment that's required to
(22:11):
be there, right?
So for you to, for yourdaughter to come in without any
sort of prior understanding andsay you know, I just have a
passion for service, I want toserve, I want to show up, get
good grades and I want to meetlike-minded women like myself
who are interested in servingthe community, our intuitive
(22:38):
understanding of what I hear yousaying is that there seems to
be some misalignment there,because I don't know how it
seems like service kind of getslost in the shuffle.
Karen McFarlane (22:50):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, anyone should be ableto be called to service and
serve, but this is not foranyone.
This is for anyone who hasmoney to be.
And also, what it doesn't seemlike is that those that money is
being used for service, it'sjust being used for access, and
(23:16):
that doesn't seem like that ispart of the purpose of what
these organizations are supposedto be about.
Nor is it about what we shouldbe teaching young people about
being servant leaders withintheir college, within the
community, within the world.
So that's being skewed becauseit's just about for lack of a
(23:39):
better term being with the coolkids or being popular with the
cool kids.
Right, like.
That just feels distorted to meand it also feels like I don't
know who this coach is, but I'mgoing to assume they're not in
college.
But it feels like adults, allright, are just getting in the
middle of young people businessand for so many years they've
(24:03):
been doing okay, right Seemingly, and building their own
communities, and thosecommunities have grown
throughout time.
They've stuck together, they'vebuilt those networks, they have
those, like you said, thosegraduate programs that they can
continue to build, but why areadults getting all involved in
this?
Brittany S. Hale (24:24):
Yeah, and so that's a great question, because
this woman addicts that wementioned before.
She went to college in 1986.
She's from North Carolina, sheenrolled at the University of
Georgia and so she lined up withother girls.
(24:48):
They wore all white dresses forbid day and she saw that her bid
card was empty.
No one had bid on her and sherushed again the next year and
was able to get into a sorority.
But that experience stuck withher enough for her to again.
She went to college in 1986, sowe can estimate how old she is
now.
It stuck with her long enoughfor her to offer this as a
(25:09):
service to other girls.
So one of her clients spoke.
She says rushing a sorority is along and complicated process,
but it could still be theeasiest way to find the right
kind of friendship on campuswith other white, wealthy,
well-connected girls.
Now you need a photograph, aresume.
(25:29):
A short video has to besubmitted to each sorority, and
then the summer has beenrequesting letters of
recommendation from eithersorority alumni, choosing
outfits, building a social mediapage, and so it's actually a
little longer than a week.
It's about nine days dividedinto themed rounds.
(25:50):
So, addicts, when she meets aclient, she writes down a
prediction of of where shethinks they'll land, and so she
tells them be who you arelooking for is looking for.
So become the person you wantto select you.
Karen McFarlane (26:11):
Oh, don't be you Okay.
Brittany S. Hale (26:13):
Exactly, exactly.
So she will say you should hirea photographer to take a
portrait in a setting that'smeaningful but not too formal.
You should.
You have a minute long video tocommunicate your worth right.
Karen McFarlane (26:31):
Your worth.
Brittany S. Hale (26:32):
okay, right, so I'm using these words.
This is not from the article.
Okay, paraphrasing, got it, gotit right, exactly, I'm
paraphrasing.
So, uh, addicts told her client, gracie, to tweak her answers
to speak more about herfriendships and less about her
grades and her accomplishments,which is really interesting, uh,
(26:54):
so question you should answerquestions like what are your two
favorite words that woulddescribe you?
What was your favorite class athigh school?
Not how you did, but what wasyour favorite right?
What is your most life-changingmoment?
And so this is a direct quote.
She says the client should postfrequently online.
(27:16):
Frequently is about maybe threetimes a day.
So you want to be someone wholooks like a loyal friend.
The number of photos byyourself should not exceed the
number of photos with yourfriends.
It should be no images of youin a swimsuit, and photos with
sports teammates are fine, butshouldn't be anywhere suggestive
(27:39):
like a beach and clients fromthe Northeast, for example,
(28:02):
folks like us.
You should wear shorts, low cuttops, sheer tops, stilettos
over the knee, boots, cutouts,tighter bodycon dresses.
Be dynamic enough to beremembered, but not too flashy.
It's expressing yourindividuality in the right
situation.
Karen McFarlane (28:21):
It feels so contradictory, like what do you
want a resume for?
Okay, if you want people tofocus on their friendships and
not focus on grades, right?
So nothing about your intellect, just about how you can be a
good friend.
Brittany S. Hale (28:36):
This feels very stressful, having to
clearly have a false image, notthat you actually have to be
image.
You don't need a framedrecommendation letter.
Oh, okay, just saying that washer term.
She said you must appear to bea good friend.
Karen McFarlane (28:52):
So you have to curate an identity that may not
be your own Correct, In order topotentially get access to the
group that you want to getaccess to In some ways, though.
I mean, what are her results?
Brittany S. Hale (29:14):
Because right now this sounds like a grift.
This is a great question.
It's not clear.
It's not clear Okay, that makessense what the results are.
(29:35):
It seems that she says the rushcoach is insurance.
It's five grand or more toguarantee a spot in a house, but
a bid is not necessarilyguaranteed for those who follow
every piece of advice in her,what she called a rush Bible.
Other coaches who offer similarservices at the same or a
(30:00):
higher price point didn'tcomment on whether they coached
girls who get rejected.
So anyone that says 100% ofclients get into a sorority
across the board is not being upfront with you.
So the most expensive serviceoffers unlimited one-on-one
coaching with the chiefconsultant, full social media,
edit vocabulary sheets forconversation during rush and
care packages sent to your dormincluding custom stationery to
(30:23):
write thank you notes.
Karen McFarlane (30:25):
So we're also teaching manipulation On top of
it.
So these are the skills that weare compelling girls to learn.
Brittany S. Hale (30:38):
We are compelling girls to learn One of
the social media influencerswho dropped her sorority.
She says the girls treat Rushlike it's life or death.
If they don't get a house theywant, they will drop completely
from recruitment and go to adepressing episode.
But ultimately the coach'sclients believe it's worth the
(31:01):
price.
So the girl, gracie that wementioned she found herself in a
unique position to choose hersorority, not the other way
around.
So before she opened theenvelope she pressed record to
send a video to her mother.
When she read the sorority'sinvitation her eyes lit up.
She jumped up and down.
Her mother, who was only fivestates away, took a screenshot
(31:25):
for their family Christmas card.
It was pure joy to know that Iworked so hard and I put such
time and energy to get that cardand open it up.
It's so happy, it's sorewarding.
So my question the artistry ofit right Um, um?
(31:46):
Is authenticity real?
Is it what you make it?
Karen McFarlane (31:57):
It's an excellent question and today you
know, it's very hard todetermine if it is real or not,
or how to even demonstrate it.
So, in a world that you can soeasily manipulate your image,
your voice, everything about you, and curate it to fit a certain
(32:24):
narrative and that's actuallyencouraged, particularly in the
job hunt right, with peoplereally trying to beat the AI
tools not necessarily be theirauthentic selves, because their
authentic selves cannot be readby AI or humans, not even
looking at it.
So we see that already.
And now we're seeing that youngpeople, you know, are being
(32:49):
taught to do that even beforethey leave high school, taught
to do that even before theyleave high school, right in
order to participate in thesetypes of groups.
That is the lessons that we arepushing in order to obtain
whatever it is that they want toobtain.
So don't be who you are,because who you are may not get
(33:11):
you where you need to be.
Yet we want people to beauthentic.
We reward authenticity.
We feel that, and how is thisgeneration going to learn what
that means or how to even feelit between two people, if they
can never be their true selvesbecause they're told that's not
(33:32):
good enough?
I don't like that.
We're commoditizing these typesof relationships and
interactions.
That just doesn't feel right tome.
I don't like that older peopleare not giving younger people
their autonomy and help, leavingthem to their own devices to
(33:55):
discover and explore how eventhese processes can evolve right
, and I'm sure they have evolvedover time.
They go to college to be theirown people and to learn what
they need to learn, or to learnhow to learn, and then come out
as hopefully as criticalthinkers that can evolve,
(34:17):
especially in these verychanging times.
And if everything is handed tothem on a plate in that way,
like here's exactly how to speak, here are the words to use,
here's how to act, how do theydevelop their own sense of self
and their own sense ofconfidence?
How do they develop resilienceif some of those things are just
(34:40):
handed to them and they're notgiven the opportunity to build
up, you know, through rejection,through hardship, through all
of those things that make us whowe are.
I'm Gen X, right, you know.
The jokes are on social mediathat we're the toughest.
We can just be left to thewolves and we'll survive.
And maybe that's where I comefrom, because a lot of this
(35:05):
softness is very irritatingbecause if there was an
apocalypse tomorrow, who's goingto survive?
All right, I don't know thatthe younger generation will.
I don't know that I will either, but the point is, I think I
have a different kind of chance,so it's very disturbing.
I also think that in some waysit is creative.
(35:28):
You're taking advantage of asituation.
You're taking advantage of theemotions that people have around
this stuff and tapping intothat.
Parents will pay the moneybecause they want to see pure
joy on their child's face.
College is a lifechangingchanging situation,
(35:51):
right, and you want to be surethat when you send your child
off, that they are happy, thatthey have friends right, they'll
do the work, but if they don'thave friends, they're not happy.
So it's taking advantage of alot of these things.
I guess it's no different insome ways, the coaches and
(36:14):
consultants that help people getinto certain colleges.
This is just another angle, butI also have critiques for the
collegiate coaches, right,because you're skewing the game
and not everybody has access, soit's a very complex issue.
(36:38):
I admire the creativity, but Iquestion the methodology and I'm
wondering about the results.
Brittany S. Hale (36:45):
Yeah, you know , it makes me think of the
celebrities who recently, youknow, a few years ago, were was
it Felicity Huffman?
There were a few folks who werecharged with lying on their
kids' applications and thinkingthese photo shoots is that their
children were part of theseteams, all for the chance to be
(37:08):
admitted into these schools.
So, you know, I consider myselfin some ways a traditionalist.
I do.
I love the idea of tradition, Ilove the idea of passing down
practices and values and all ofthe things that connect us and
(37:28):
reinforce connection to oneanother, reinforce connection to
one another.
And it's always an ongoingconversation within myself,
within others, about whichtraditions we keep and for what
purpose, and which we choose tosit down and lay down.
Um, yeah, you know, I, I, I havemembers of my family who are
(37:58):
very ardent about being part ofone particular sorority and the
question is always okay, but why, right?
Why this one as opposed toothers?
And um, and so, again, I canunderstand a parent wanting, I
(38:22):
can understand you want you todo something that's good for
your, your kids, yeah, and Iguess it comes back to the
question who's good being?
Karen McFarlane (38:30):
right?
Yeah, exactly, I mean, peoplewant to be grounded in something
and feel connected, and beingconnected to a particular group,
as we are social creatures, isa very powerful draw.
But when is that draw becomingharmful?
Not only to you, but you knowthe people around you and you
(38:54):
know, at a macro level, society.
So those are questions I thinkwe always have to ask ourselves.
I don't think that we do,because as individuals, we want
what we want.
We look at it through a verynarrow scope scope, but
(39:18):
particularly now, we have to askthe bigger questions.
As we see unemployment ratesrise, some of these things
become even more attractive.
A lot of kids are going tocollege and they're coming out
and they can't get jobs.
And with AI on the rise,there's a lot of chatter about
what that effect will be and howentry-level jobs will be
affected, and your networkbecomes even more valuable, even
(39:42):
more necessary, even more likelife or death, essentially, and
so I think it's going to fuelmore of these types of services
and focus on building thoserelationships and connections to
powerful people in groups moreintentionally as they start in
(40:06):
younger years.
I mean, that's what privateschools are for also too, that
proximity and access, and soit's just another extension of
that.
I think we can expect toprobably see more, but we have
to keep a watch on what theeffect will be long-term and who
benefits that's always thequestion.
Brittany S. Hale (40:30):
Well, thank you for letting me take you down
this journey.
Karen McFarlane (40:32):
Hopefully you saw listen, I learned something
new.
I mean this is, this is amazing.
I'm gonna you know.
Brittany S. Hale (40:38):
Now follow uh bam or russia I'm going to send
you a ton of videos and see whathappens.
Karen McFarlane (40:49):
I always think back like what if I did pledge,
you know what would be different?
And I thought about it.
I don't know, maybe like 10years ago, should I try and I
was like, well, which one, likewho do I represent?
And then I was like you knowwhat I represent myself Exactly?
Brittany S. Hale (41:11):
I mean it's not too late, depending on you
know, I know, but I think I'mgood, but we'll see.
Karen McFarlane (41:20):
Maybe after I, you know, look at some of these
TikToks.
I'll be like, oh, maybe Ishould explore what that's about
and see what you're doing inthe community.
That might be my tune, you know.
You might be raising up signsand all sorts of things.
Whatever they do, I don't wantto raise it because then I'll
get in trouble.
Brittany S. Hale (41:37):
All right, all right.
Karen McFarlane (41:43):
This was a great discussion.
Thanks for teaching mesomething new today.
See you All, right Bye.
Hi Brittany.
Hi Karen, how are you?
I'm good.
I am good.
I am excited for anotherepisode of Season 3.
And today, I think we're goingto talk about something that
really links back to our newframework around, our new focus
(00:24):
on eudaimonia.
Brittany S. Hale (00:26):
Yes, yeah, and for our listeners, would you
mind sharing a little bit aboutthe framework?
Karen McFarlane (00:31):
Yes, so basically we are focused on
eudaimonia, which means humanflourishing.
So we wanted to switch up alittle bit how we talked about
our views on leadership, culture, business, politics, just the
whole environment, the wholeclimate, and we came up with
(00:53):
this framework, but it'sactually ripped from Aristotle's
five values, five virtues, andso we can remember it, and so
you can remember it it is theSPENT framework S-P-E-N-T, and
SPENT stands for five differentGreek words S is for Sophia,
(01:16):
which is understand whysomething matters.
P is for phronesis, which isuse good judgment.
E is for episteme, which isknow the facts.
N is for nous trust yourintuition, and techne is the T,
which means make it real.
That is the spent framework andthat's how we're going to be
(01:37):
talking about our subjectmatters going forward.
Brittany S. Hale (01:41):
Excellent, Excellent.
So you know, all this talkabout Aristotle is jogging my
mind and what's been all acrossmy algorithm, which is Bama Rush
.
Are you familiar with Bama Rush?
Karen McFarlane (01:58):
I'm not familiar with Bama Rush, so tell
me about it.
Brittany S. Hale (02:01):
I'm happy to share because you may think,
what does Alabama and Aristotlehave in common?
And the first thing is, ofcourse, bama Rush is in
reference to the week Rush Weekthat happens at the University
of Alabama.
So family members have gone tothe University of Alabama,
(02:23):
family members have joinedsororities at the University of
Alabama and I've seen a fewarticles about women who acted
as consultants for families whoare interested in getting their
daughters into certainsororities while at the
University of Alabama.
(02:43):
So I'm going to explain my veryrudimentary understanding of
Bama Rush.
I should let you know any andeverything that I've learned is
through anecdotal storytellingand social media, but I'm happy
to ground you, karen.
Karen McFarlane (03:01):
Please, because , just for transparency, I've
never pledged a sorority.
I'm not familiar with you knowother than what I've seen
randomly on social media andsome anecdotes from people
around you.
Know the process of evengetting in.
I know a little bit about RushWeek, but I don't really know
much about Rush Week, so anyintel you can provide me would
(03:25):
be fantastic.
Brittany S. Hale (03:26):
Absolutely, and I should also be very, very
clear that this discussion aboutRush Week is firmly grounded in
the Panhellenic Council, whichis different from the NPHC.
The NPHC consists of what wecall the Divine Nine, which are
(03:50):
the Black founded sororities andfraternities, many of which
were founded at HowardUniversity.
Some were founded at otheruniversities throughout the
country, and so that is a verydifferent experience.
The D9 or Divine Nineexperience is very different
(04:11):
from the rush that happens withthe National Panhellenic Council
.
Karen McFarlane (04:17):
Okay.
Brittany S. Hale (04:17):
All right, that's good to know Okay.
I was definitely thinking aboutthe Divine Nine and it makes a
lot of sense because there aremultiple members of my family
who are part of the D9 and Ihave a healthy respect for them
and so the main difference thatI've been able to see I also
(04:41):
have family members who'verushed in various fraternities
that were not part of the D9.
With the D9, of course, therecomes the kind of lifetime
commitment right.
So for many of us when we thinkabout rush, we may think about
or we think about sororities orfraternities.
We think about the four yearsof your undergraduate experience
(05:04):
In the Divine Nine, thoserelationships, that commitment
to service and sisterhood andall of those things.
That is a lifetime commitment.
For the rest of your life youwill be involved.
I have family members who arelifetime members or you know
(05:25):
they've been involved in theirsororities for 25 years plus, so
they are in it.
Karen McFarlane (05:33):
Yeah, I was just thinking of a friend of
mine who's an alpha on thepaternal side who is totally in
it, you know from college, waspresident, still actively
involved, wears all the gearanytime he can just the whole
representation.
But another really cool part ofit is the network that you
(05:56):
develop over that time and thefact that once you find out that
you know your fellow sororityor fraternity member, that
there's an instant connectionthat you can leverage 1,000%.
Brittany S. Hale (06:09):
I should note that our one of our most, our
most recent woman vice presidentis a member of the D9.
She's a member of Alpha KappaAlpha Sorority Incorporated.
Alpha Kappa, alpha SororityIncorporated.
And, yeah, you're absolutelyright, and the difference in
that is that you can stillobtain membership through the
(06:32):
graduate process, right, theundergraduate process, junior
graduate process.
Bama Rush, we're solely focusingon the undergraduate experience
, so, using the spent framework,why does this matter?
So this matters for a fewreasons.
One to your point aboutnetworking.
This is really the seed and thegenesis of how many people form
(07:00):
professional and personalnetworks at the beginning of
their undergraduate experience.
This is also a phenomenon thatshifts your algorithm if you're
on TikTok or other forms ofsocial media, and it is
ironically, believe it or not,it is also a time-honored
(07:23):
tradition, right, we have tonsof traditions.
So there's a, there's a womanwho is her family.
Both parents went to theuniversity of alabama and the
colors, I believe, are crimsonand white, and they are so
(07:44):
committed, so focused on theirexperience, that her maiden name
which has since changed becauseshe's now married with children
, but our maiden name wascrimson and white, oh, middle
name and a n?
N?
E last name, white.
(08:05):
Oh, that's very creative, okay.
So, understanding why itmatters, there's a uh, there's a
personal uh, there's there's asense of tradition and there's
this sense of community which,as social creatures, we, we, as
humans, we love.
Right Now let's talk about thepractical wisdom and using good
(08:29):
judgment.
So, with BAM to Rush during thisweek, if you are planning to
rush, meaning that you have anintent to join or for this
purpose we'll talk aboutsororities Then you move in one
week before other students,because you participate in
what's called brush week, andyou will list all of the
(08:54):
sororities that you areinterested in and I will show
you videos.
These are very highly producedintroductions you have, you know
, if you think of I don't knowif you saw the movie House Bunny
, it was a spoof on sororitiesbut you have these big mansions
(09:20):
that these students live in andyou have dozens of girls who are
dancing these choreographeddances.
They're, all you know, hittingtheir eight counts and they live
in these homes and it is, it'sa huge deal of care.
Okay, it sounds like fun, andso you attend events.
(09:45):
The goal of doing thesechoreographed intros is to
become attractive and to attractthe best girls, right, the best
students and these girls willgo to events, they will get to
know the sisters of thatparticular sorority and then the
(10:06):
sisters will what's called makea bid on them.
And so, over the course of theweek, you will get a letter that
lets you know who's bid on youand you continue to attend their
events.
And then, finally, you will seethat one of two sororities have
(10:27):
bid on you.
And now, with the advent ofsocial media, girls will record
themselves opening up their bidletters, screaming in joy,
falling out in tears.
Okay, so now the practicalwisdom comes in.
The scientific knowledge of itis that there are hundreds of
(10:52):
thousands of dollars, if notmillions of dollars, that goes
into this whole process.
Why, do you ask?
Girls try to positionthemselves in high school as
influencers because they havethe goal of being, they want to
(11:13):
be chosen, they want to be bidon, they want to have the
experience.
So you want to go to a schoolthat has a very vibrant Greek
life and these properties thatthe sororities and fraternities
own, these are historicproperties.
(11:34):
Some have been on this land formore than 100 years.
These up, these things, theycome with maids, chefs.
(11:58):
It's a really interesting life.
But now there's a new ecosystemof sorority consultants which
are women who may be part ofsome of these storied sororities
, and they provide positionalconsulting for these students to
be appealing.
So what kind of photo shootsare you going to have?
(12:18):
What is your Instagram grouplike?
What kind of clothes are yougoing to wear?
So, if they are, you know, ifthey're a, for example, if
they're a Burberry group, thenyou need to show up and you need
to wear Burberry.
If you, you know, you have towear Tiffany.
(12:39):
You know all of this.
So it's a very expensiveendeavor at the outset, so I'll
just pause there.
I'm throwing a lot ofinformation at you.
Karen McFarlane (12:53):
Yeah, okay, wow .
Brittany S. Hale (12:57):
Now, of course , we've heard of, and maybe done
so, hiring tutors for yourchild.
Right College consultants tomake sure that your child can
get into the best collegepossible.
Consultants to make sure thatyour child can get into the best
college possible.
Karen McFarlane (13:17):
Have you heard of a sorority consulting?
No, I'm going to go back andask a question.
Why is this so important tobecome part of a sorority or
fraternity?
I mean, I know I talked aboutthe networking aspect of it and
the long-term value, but arethere other benefits that I'm
unaware of?
Brittany S. Hale (13:39):
So the benefits of it is relationships
mainly, right, it's all in whoyou know.
Okay, how often have you saidit's not what you know, all in
who you know.
How often have we said it's notwhat you know, it's who you
know.
And so this one, can you trulyput a cost on happiness?
Right, if your child isconvinced that this would be the
(14:01):
epitome of a college experiencethat you need to have have.
And so there are a number ofsororities where these are
daughters of some of the mostelite families throughout the
(14:22):
United States.
Indeed, some of the girls whoare bidding, the girls already
in the sorority, are, at times,even looking at the address and
researching their home addresson Zillow to get a sense of how
much the parents make before thegirls are attending.
Okay, so disturbing.
Karen McFarlane (14:46):
This is so true .
Brittany S. Hale (14:47):
Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
So when you have theseconsultants who are giving all
sorts of advice, there's onewoman who was recently featured
in New York magazine.
Her name is Tricia Addicts andshe's the first official rush
coach in her coaching serviceand she's the first official
(15:09):
rush coach In her coachingservice at this point.
She employs 19 people that shepairs with clients across the
country, and many of them aremoving to Southern schools.
So, to your point, what is thebenefit of this?
It's moving to a Southernschool, which may have
(15:36):
particular attitude orperspective on some of the ideas
that we've talked about in thepast, right?
So if your daughter's fromupstate New York and she wants
to go to the University ofAlabama or University of South
Carolina, her worldview may ormay not be framed by that
four-year experience.
Many of these girls expect tomarry, right?
So I'll just pause there.
Karen McFarlane (15:59):
Okay, so I'm having some mixed reactions
around it.
At first, when you startedtalking, I thought that some
aspects of it were positive,right, in terms of there are
certain skills that are beingdeveloped in order to, number
one, attract people to yourorganization, your sorority,
(16:21):
your fraternity.
And you know you're learning Idon't know marketing and sales
and communication skills throughthat process of doing the
attraction and then also asbeing courted, right, that is,
you trying to identify what'sthe best place for you,
especially when you're young andin college, and you're
(16:42):
developing these skills.
Right, selling yourself,dealing with acceptance, but
also dealing with rejection andall the things that come with
that.
So those are upsides to me.
The idea of bidding, or thatword, was very jarring to, but,
(17:06):
um, I guess it's kind of similarto in sports.
You know the trading and andall of that.
So I'll just ignore that for asecond.
But this whole idea of sellingor coaching in a way it's still
(17:31):
sales for access and proximityis disconcerting, because
college in some ways is aboutleveling the playing field in
some ways.
Obviously, you have to get intocollege and be able to pay for
it and there's other aspects ofthat.
But in terms of therelationships that are being
(17:54):
formed and the perspectives thatare being formed.
That's supposed to createopportunity, no matter where you
come from or what yoursocioeconomic background is.
Brittany S. Hale (18:06):
I'm going to start you right there.
Okay, I apologize, backgroundis, and so the fact that you're
right there.
Okay, keep that thought becauseyou're absolutely right.
College is supposed to be quitea democratic small d experience
.
You get to engage with peoplewho have different backgrounds
(18:26):
and you either leave college,you know, feeling more strongly
about some of the ideals thatyou came in with, and you either
leave college, you know,feeling more strongly about some
of the ideals that you came inwith and you're fortifying with
the knowledge to support them,or maybe you think completely
differently about some of theideals that you've been brought
up with and the values and theideas.
So I'm going to go into ourkind of scientific knowledge
(18:50):
right, our evidence, and I'llgive you a sense of the costs
around Bama Rush.
So let's assume your daughtergets a bid, congratulations.
This is an average, and this isan average that some social
(19:10):
media influencers who haverushed to share on social media.
So there's a $4,000 membershipfee.
There's a $350 registration fee.
In-house fee per semester canbe anywhere from $7,000 to
(19:35):
$10,000.
And then there's a $1,500 to$3,000 council fee for the
Panhellenic Council.
So, given some of these fees,the coach has like an online
pre-recorded course, a series ofvideos.
That's about $149.
But if you want the one-to-onecoaching, that's going to be
around $5,000 for the one-to-onecoaching.
(20:01):
So I will just pause rightthere.
What is your reaction to whatI've shared?
Karen McFarlane (20:10):
Well, I think my quick math was like somewhere
between $30,000 to $35,000,right?
So now we've I didn't eventhink about it for a semester.
So that's insane, first of all,and not to mention the costs
(20:31):
before you even get to thatprocess, right, because you
mentioned that girls are tryingto create their personal brands
and become major influencers,and all of that just to be
recognized, right, and all ofthat Makeup, hair nails, all of
(20:53):
it, yep, exactly, designerbrands that they may or may not
be able to afford, things ofthat nature.
So you have all of that.
Then you have to go into thisprocess and spend all this money
, and it actually is justfeeding into same certain groups
, right, that have access tothose money, to those monies,
(21:14):
right, and doesn't create thesmall D democratic process that
is necessary for people to growand thrive and understand from a
global perspective, like whatthe world is really like, and so
it's just reinforcing seeminglyold or traditional concepts
(21:38):
about who should benefit andhave that access over the long
term, and it's just the dominoeffect.
Brittany S. Hale (21:47):
Yeah, so that takes us into our end right, the
the intuitive understanding,the noose of it all.
Because I should be quite clearthat these sororities do a ton
of public service, they do a tonof volunteering and we have a
uh, a clear understanding of theinvestment that's required to
(22:11):
be there, right?
So for you to, for yourdaughter to come in without any
sort of prior understanding andsay you know, I just have a
passion for service, I want toserve, I want to show up, get
good grades and I want to meetlike-minded women like myself
who are interested in servingthe community, our intuitive
(22:38):
understanding of what I hear yousaying is that there seems to
be some misalignment there,because I don't know how it
seems like service kind of getslost in the shuffle.
Karen McFarlane (22:50):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, anyone should be ableto be called to service and
serve, but this is not foranyone.
This is for anyone who hasmoney to be.
And also, what it doesn't seemlike is that those that money is
being used for service, it'sjust being used for access, and
(23:16):
that doesn't seem like that ispart of the purpose of what
these organizations are supposedto be about.
Nor is it about what we shouldbe teaching young people about
being servant leaders withintheir college, within the
community, within the world.
So that's being skewed becauseit's just about for lack of a
(23:39):
better term being with the coolkids or being popular with the
cool kids.
Right, like.
That just feels distorted to meand it also feels like I don't
know who this coach is, but I'mgoing to assume they're not in
college.
But it feels like adults, allright, are just getting in the
middle of young people businessand for so many years they've
(24:03):
been doing okay, right Seemingly, and building their own
communities, and thosecommunities have grown
throughout time.
They've stuck together, they'vebuilt those networks, they have
those, like you said, thosegraduate programs that they can
continue to build, but why areadults getting all involved in
this?
Brittany S. Hale (24:24):
Yeah, and so that's a great question, because
this woman addicts that wementioned before.
She went to college in 1986.
She's from North Carolina, sheenrolled at the University of
Georgia and so she lined up withother girls.
(24:48):
They wore all white dresses forbid day and she saw that her bid
card was empty.
No one had bid on her and sherushed again the next year and
was able to get into a sorority.
But that experience stuck withher enough for her to again.
She went to college in 1986, sowe can estimate how old she is
now.
It stuck with her long enoughfor her to offer this as a
(25:09):
service to other girls.
So one of her clients spoke.
She says rushing a sorority is along and complicated process,
but it could still be theeasiest way to find the right
kind of friendship on campuswith other white, wealthy,
well-connected girls.
Now you need a photograph, aresume.
(25:29):
A short video has to besubmitted to each sorority, and
then the summer has beenrequesting letters of
recommendation from eithersorority alumni, choosing
outfits, building a social mediapage, and so it's actually a
little longer than a week.
It's about nine days dividedinto themed rounds.
(25:50):
So, addicts, when she meets aclient, she writes down a
prediction of of where shethinks they'll land, and so she
tells them be who you arelooking for is looking for.
So become the person you wantto select you.
Karen McFarlane (26:11):
Oh, don't be you Okay.
Brittany S. Hale (26:13):
Exactly, exactly.
So she will say you should hirea photographer to take a
portrait in a setting that'smeaningful but not too formal.
You should.
You have a minute long video tocommunicate your worth right.
Karen McFarlane (26:31):
Your worth.
Brittany S. Hale (26:32):
okay, right, so I'm using these words.
This is not from the article.
Okay, paraphrasing, got it, gotit right, exactly, I'm
paraphrasing.
So, uh, addicts told her client, gracie, to tweak her answers
to speak more about herfriendships and less about her
grades and her accomplishments,which is really interesting, uh,
(26:54):
so question you should answerquestions like what are your two
favorite words that woulddescribe you?
What was your favorite class athigh school?
Not how you did, but what wasyour favorite right?
What is your most life-changingmoment?
And so this is a direct quote.
She says the client should postfrequently online.
(27:16):
Frequently is about maybe threetimes a day.
So you want to be someone wholooks like a loyal friend.
The number of photos byyourself should not exceed the
number of photos with yourfriends.
It should be no images of youin a swimsuit, and photos with
sports teammates are fine, butshouldn't be anywhere suggestive
(27:39):
like a beach and clients fromthe Northeast, for example,
(28:02):
folks like us.
You should wear shorts, low cuttops, sheer tops, stilettos
over the knee, boots, cutouts,tighter bodycon dresses.
Be dynamic enough to beremembered, but not too flashy.
It's expressing yourindividuality in the right
situation.
Karen McFarlane (28:21):
It feels so contradictory, like what do you
want a resume for?
Okay, if you want people tofocus on their friendships and
not focus on grades, right?
So nothing about your intellect, just about how you can be a
good friend.
Brittany S. Hale (28:36):
This feels very stressful, having to
clearly have a false image, notthat you actually have to be
image.
You don't need a framedrecommendation letter.
Oh, okay, just saying that washer term.
She said you must appear to bea good friend.
Karen McFarlane (28:52):
So you have to curate an identity that may not
be your own Correct, In order topotentially get access to the
group that you want to getaccess to In some ways, though.
I mean, what are her results?
Brittany S. Hale (29:14):
Because right now this sounds like a grift.
This is a great question.
It's not clear.
It's not clear Okay, that makessense what the results are.
(29:35):
It seems that she says the rushcoach is insurance.
It's five grand or more toguarantee a spot in a house, but
a bid is not necessarilyguaranteed for those who follow
every piece of advice in her,what she called a rush Bible.
Other coaches who offer similarservices at the same or a
(30:00):
higher price point didn'tcomment on whether they coached
girls who get rejected.
So anyone that says 100% ofclients get into a sorority
across the board is not being upfront with you.
So the most expensive serviceoffers unlimited one-on-one
coaching with the chiefconsultant, full social media,
edit vocabulary sheets forconversation during rush and
care packages sent to your dormincluding custom stationery to
(30:23):
write thank you notes.
Karen McFarlane (30:25):
So we're also teaching manipulation On top of
it.
So these are the skills that weare compelling girls to learn.
Brittany S. Hale (30:38):
We are compelling girls to learn One of
the social media influencerswho dropped her sorority.
She says the girls treat Rushlike it's life or death.
If they don't get a house theywant, they will drop completely
from recruitment and go to adepressing episode.
But ultimately the coach'sclients believe it's worth the
(31:01):
price.
So the girl, gracie that wementioned she found herself in a
unique position to choose hersorority, not the other way
around.
So before she opened theenvelope she pressed record to
send a video to her mother.
When she read the sorority'sinvitation her eyes lit up.
She jumped up and down.
Her mother, who was only fivestates away, took a screenshot
(31:25):
for their family Christmas card.
It was pure joy to know that Iworked so hard and I put such
time and energy to get that cardand open it up.
It's so happy, it's sorewarding.
So my question the artistry ofit right Um, um?
(31:46):
Is authenticity real?
Is it what you make it?
Karen McFarlane (31:57):
It's an excellent question and today you
know, it's very hard todetermine if it is real or not,
or how to even demonstrate it.
So, in a world that you can soeasily manipulate your image,
your voice, everything about you, and curate it to fit a certain
(32:24):
narrative and that's actuallyencouraged, particularly in the
job hunt right, with peoplereally trying to beat the AI
tools not necessarily be theirauthentic selves, because their
authentic selves cannot be readby AI or humans, not even
looking at it.
So we see that already.
And now we're seeing that youngpeople, you know, are being
(32:49):
taught to do that even beforethey leave high school, taught
to do that even before theyleave high school, right in
order to participate in thesetypes of groups.
That is the lessons that we arepushing in order to obtain
whatever it is that they want toobtain.
So don't be who you are,because who you are may not get
(33:11):
you where you need to be.
Yet we want people to beauthentic.
We reward authenticity.
We feel that, and how is thisgeneration going to learn what
that means or how to even feelit between two people, if they
can never be their true selvesbecause they're told that's not
(33:32):
good enough?
I don't like that.
We're commoditizing these typesof relationships and
interactions.
That just doesn't feel right tome.
I don't like that older peopleare not giving younger people
their autonomy and help, leavingthem to their own devices to
(33:55):
discover and explore how eventhese processes can evolve right
, and I'm sure they have evolvedover time.
They go to college to be theirown people and to learn what
they need to learn, or to learnhow to learn, and then come out
as hopefully as criticalthinkers that can evolve,
(34:17):
especially in these verychanging times.
And if everything is handed tothem on a plate in that way,
like here's exactly how to speak, here are the words to use,
here's how to act, how do theydevelop their own sense of self
and their own sense ofconfidence?
How do they develop resilienceif some of those things are just
(34:40):
handed to them and they're notgiven the opportunity to build
up, you know, through rejection,through hardship, through all
of those things that make us whowe are.
I'm Gen X, right, you know.
The jokes are on social mediathat we're the toughest.
We can just be left to thewolves and we'll survive.
And maybe that's where I comefrom, because a lot of this
(35:05):
softness is very irritatingbecause if there was an
apocalypse tomorrow, who's goingto survive?
All right, I don't know thatthe younger generation will.
I don't know that I will either, but the point is, I think I
have a different kind of chance,so it's very disturbing.
I also think that in some waysit is creative.
(35:28):
You're taking advantage of asituation.
You're taking advantage of theemotions that people have around
this stuff and tapping intothat.
Parents will pay the moneybecause they want to see pure
joy on their child's face.
College is a lifechangingchanging situation,
(35:51):
right, and you want to be surethat when you send your child
off, that they are happy, thatthey have friends right, they'll
do the work, but if they don'thave friends, they're not happy.
So it's taking advantage of alot of these things.
I guess it's no different insome ways, the coaches and
(36:14):
consultants that help people getinto certain colleges.
This is just another angle, butI also have critiques for the
collegiate coaches, right,because you're skewing the game
and not everybody has access, soit's a very complex issue.
(36:38):
I admire the creativity, but Iquestion the methodology and I'm
wondering about the results.
Brittany S. Hale (36:45):
Yeah, you know , it makes me think of the
celebrities who recently, youknow, a few years ago, were was
it Felicity Huffman?
There were a few folks who werecharged with lying on their
kids' applications and thinkingthese photo shoots is that their
children were part of theseteams, all for the chance to be
(37:08):
admitted into these schools.
So, you know, I consider myselfin some ways a traditionalist.
I do.
I love the idea of tradition, Ilove the idea of passing down
practices and values and all ofthe things that connect us and
(37:28):
reinforce connection to oneanother, reinforce connection to
one another.
And it's always an ongoingconversation within myself,
within others, about whichtraditions we keep and for what
purpose, and which we choose tosit down and lay down.
Um, yeah, you know, I, I, I havemembers of my family who are
(37:58):
very ardent about being part ofone particular sorority and the
question is always okay, but why, right?
Why this one as opposed toothers?
And um, and so, again, I canunderstand a parent wanting, I
(38:22):
can understand you want you todo something that's good for
your, your kids, yeah, and Iguess it comes back to the
question who's good being?
Karen McFarlane (38:30):
right?
Yeah, exactly, I mean, peoplewant to be grounded in something
and feel connected, and beingconnected to a particular group,
as we are social creatures, isa very powerful draw.
But when is that draw becomingharmful?
Not only to you, but you knowthe people around you and you
(38:54):
know, at a macro level, society.
So those are questions I thinkwe always have to ask ourselves.
I don't think that we do,because as individuals, we want
what we want.
We look at it through a verynarrow scope scope, but
(39:18):
particularly now, we have to askthe bigger questions.
As we see unemployment ratesrise, some of these things
become even more attractive.
A lot of kids are going tocollege and they're coming out
and they can't get jobs.
And with AI on the rise,there's a lot of chatter about
what that effect will be and howentry-level jobs will be
affected, and your networkbecomes even more valuable, even
(39:42):
more necessary, even more likelife or death, essentially, and
so I think it's going to fuelmore of these types of services
and focus on building thoserelationships and connections to
powerful people in groups moreintentionally as they start in
(40:06):
younger years.
I mean, that's what privateschools are for also too, that
proximity and access, and soit's just another extension of
that.
I think we can expect toprobably see more, but we have
to keep a watch on what theeffect will be long-term and who
benefits that's always thequestion.
Brittany S. Hale (40:30):
Well, thank you for letting me take you down
this journey.
Karen McFarlane (40:32):
Hopefully you saw listen, I learned something
new.
I mean this is, this is amazing.
I'm gonna you know.
Brittany S. Hale (40:38):
Now follow uh bam or russia I'm going to send
you a ton of videos and see whathappens.
Karen McFarlane (40:49):
I always think back like what if I did pledge,
you know what would be different?
And I thought about it.
I don't know, maybe like 10years ago, should I try and I
was like, well, which one, likewho do I represent?
And then I was like you knowwhat I represent myself Exactly?
Brittany S. Hale (41:11):
I mean it's not too late, depending on you
know, I know, but I think I'mgood, but we'll see.
Karen McFarlane (41:20):
Maybe after I, you know, look at some of these
TikToks.
I'll be like, oh, maybe Ishould explore what that's about
and see what you're doing inthe community.
That might be my tune, you know.
You might be raising up signsand all sorts of things.
Whatever they do, I don't wantto raise it because then I'll
get in trouble.
Brittany S. Hale (41:37):
All right, all right.
Karen McFarlane (41:43):
This was a great discussion.
Thanks for teaching mesomething new today.
See you All, right Bye.
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