August 1, 2025 • 43 mins
This summer, devastating floods struck Central Texas, leaving families, camps, and entire communities grieving and in shock. In response, the Echoes team hosted two live webinars to support parents, educators, and caregivers facing an urgent question: How do we help our kids cope with something like this?
In this season one finale, we share highlights from those gatherings—including two heartfelt conversations with trauma expert Dr. Jamie Aten. A seasoned psychologist and co-creator of Spiritual First Aid, Jamie has spent over 20 years responding to the world’s hardest disasters and has lived through personal trauma himself.
He’s joined in the second conversation by Kent Annan, host of the Better Samaritan Podcast, for an honest and hopeful dialogue about grief, parenting, and self-compassion. Together, they offer practical tools and spiritual insight for those walking children—and themselves—through fear, confusion, and loss.
Whether you're a parent, pastor, educator, or community leader, this conversation offers grace-filled wisdom for showing up with love, clarity, and resilience when it’s needed most.
Mentioned in this episode:
- Spiritual First Aid, co-created by Dr. Jamie Aten
- Philippians 4 and the Lord’s Prayer
- The Jesus Storybook Bible by Sally Lloyd-Jones
- Letter-writing reflection exercise: “Who helped you through this crisis?”
- 1 Corinthians 16:13 – “Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith…”
- The Better Samaritan Podcast from Christianity Today
- Additional mental health resources related to the podcast episode
- Full recordings of the webinars included in the podcast excerpt
Subscribe to Echoes Magazine at hebfdn.org/echoes/subscribe to receive a beautiful, free print magazine each quarter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Camille Hall-Ortega (00:00):
In the wake of the devastating floods across
(00:02):
Central Texas, so many parents,educators and leaders have found
themselves asking the samequestion. How do we help our
kids cope with something likethis? That's why we hosted
virtual gatherings to offerspace, support, and real tools
for navigating trauma and caringwell for one another. In this
episode, you'll hear from DoctorJamie Aten, a trauma
(00:24):
psychologist who has spent thelast twenty years responding to
some of the world's hardestdisasters.
Jamie isn't just an expert. He'ssomeone who's lived through
trauma and helped thousands findtheir way through it. He's also
the cocreator of spiritual firstaid, a framework designed to
bring emotional and spiritualcare to people in crisis. This
conversation is full of empathy,wisdom, and incredibly practical
(00:47):
guidance, especially for thosehelping children process grief,
fear, and uncertainty. MarcusGoodyear, my co host at the
Echoes podcast, hosted thisvirtual event and led the
Q&A from Kerrville on July10.
What follows is a powerful,heartfelt resource for moments
like this and for anyone whowants to respond with compassion
(01:09):
and hope. Let's listen in.
Marcus Goodyear (01:11):
We've had a lot of really good questions in the
chat. We've gone ahead andanswered some, and then we're
going to answer some live now.Before we do that, though, can
you very quickly just you'vegone over several do's and
don'ts for how parents shouldtalk about the event with their
kids. Can you just recap thosereally quick? It seems like
limiting media exposure wasreally key.
Dr. Jamie Aten (01:33):
Yeah, that's a really important one and we
oftentimes don't necessarilyrealize how much our kids are
soaking in. So again, going backto that sponge analogy. So we
want to limit our media andthat's not just television.
That's also our social media.You know, if we're flipping
through on our phones to try tolimit that.
And also I would even go as faras to say limit that for
(01:53):
yourself too. So one of thethings I just share
transparently whenever I'mengaged with disaster work, I
significantly limit my exposureto media. And I've been doing
this work in some of the hardestdisasters around the world for
twenty years and I still limitit. So know that it's okay if
you limit your media as well. Acouple other things is just to
(02:17):
avoid kind of those clichestatements that that's something
of, you know, like, you know, itcould have been worse or at
least, right?
Like stay away from those sortsof phrases. And then if we think
about theology, sometimes wewant to rely on theological
statements that are really justcliches. So a good rule of thumb
(02:38):
is if you start to catch thewords come out of your mouth as
a parent, that sounds like it'ssomething that should be like a
country western song or a topblue hit, don't say it. Or if
it's catchy enough that it canstill fit on a bumper sticker,
it's probably lacking any realtheology. So just stay away from
those sort of phrases likeeverything happens for a reason.
Marcus Goodyear (03:00):
Yeah, you know I have to say I do like country
music so I get that.
Dr. Jamie Aten (03:06):
I'm talking just the top tens right?
Marcus Goodyear (03:09):
Right, One of the questions we got early on
was how you mentioned avoidingcliches in talking about death
and euphemisms and GinaRodriguez and Selena Gonzalez
both asked, how do you definedeath simply? Is it like just
their body stopped working orwhat advice can you give us on
that front?
Dr. Jamie Aten (03:29):
That's a great question and it would be really
one of the things that yourresponse will differ
significantly based on the agesof your children.
Marcus Goodyear (03:37):
Right.
Dr. Jamie Aten (03:38):
So right now one of the things that I would
encourage you as a parent tothink about or as a caregiver is
to pause for a moment and tothink about how would I talk to
my child about these really hardsubjects in general in life
outside of the context of thedisaster. Right? So stop for a
moment and just think about,okay, if I weren't on this
(04:00):
webinar because of this disasterand if I lost a close loved one,
how would I tell my child that?Now the reason why I'm asking
you to try to separate it alittle bit is that having that
conversation is rough. It ishard.
But to be trying to thinkthrough as a parent within the
context of a disaster makes iteven more distressful for you as
(04:22):
the parent. So I would startwith the basics and ask them of,
do you know what happened? Andthen to be able to tell them
that, you know, in just verymatter of fact that this person
died because of the flood orthis person died. Right? So if
the child's asking, and thenfrom there to ask them, how do
(04:44):
you understand what that means?
Do you know what that means? Andto listen to them and then to
fill in the gaps from the holesthat they may have in their
knowledge and awareness.
Marcus Goodyear (04:54):
Yeah, that's helpful. That's helpful.
Especially just what may seemobvious, but starting with
thinking about the specific ageof your children. We have a lot
of camper parents on the callwho are about to pick their kids
up. Some of them from LLYC,Laity Lodge Youth Camp, which is
the camp run by the H.E.ButtFoundation, but other camps as
(05:15):
well.
I know at LLYC campers don'thave access to their phones,
don't have access to theinternet, which is something
that is common in camps. In ourcamp, campers didn't know much
at first because of that or evenanything really. But as staff
started taking days off and acouple of other things, then the
(05:38):
word started getting in. Therewas a crisis counselor on hand
to help staff respond tostudents, but they kept things
very high level. What advicewould you have for people who
are picking up their kids thisweekend from camp, whether
that's LLYC or somewhere else?
Dr. Jamie Aten (05:53):
It's a great question. One of the things that
I would encourage you is to gointo the conversation ready to
talk about what has happened.Again, not that you have to know
what to say, but just tomentally be prepared. That could
be one of the things yourchildren ask about pretty
quickly. Or you might evennotice that when your child sees
(06:13):
you that maybe you start to seethem withdrawing again.
Or maybe it's the opposite of,you know, they kind of hug you
and you can start to see themtear up. Just mentally prepare
yourself for that. Now, overall,likely your child is gonna
respond to you, likely the waythat you drop them off. Right?
So and they're probably gonnarespond the way they normally
would.
But again, just as parents, themore prepared we are, then that
(06:36):
helps us with our reaction. Sothen then we are in a place to
be able to hear them and supportthem and that we're not both
needing support in that moment.So one would be to prepare
yourself for that and to kind ofjust mentally rehearse. So some
of you probably have a fairamount of a drive to go pick up
your kids from camp. Mentallythink about what would that
conversation go like?
How how might my child respond?What might I say in that moment?
(06:59):
And then when you meet yourchild, enjoy just seeing them.
You know, give them that big hugthat you were waiting for. Give
them the space to talk abouteverything that they want to
talk about.
So a lot of your kids will hopin that car and they're going to
want to just talk to you aboutall the great things. Give them
that space to do it. And then onthat drive home, if they start
to ask questions about like,hey, did something happen or
(07:22):
something happened to camp thatthere was a counselor there but
I don't really understand. Youknow, if if those types of
things start happening or maybethey hear, hey, Billy said this,
you know, when I was gettingpicked up and I don't know what
happened. Go ahead and have thatconversation but you don't want
to, you want to make sure thatyou're in a place be able to
talk about it more deeply whenyou're able.
(07:43):
So talk to them and address itbut then let them know, hey is
this the sort of thing thatmaybe we actually should pull
over and let's go to the parkand sit outside on the picnic
bench and talk about this alittle bit more. I noticed you
keep asking questions about it,but it also may be that your
child's like, hey, I heardsomething that happened. Yeah, I
know what occurred. And thenthey're like going right on with
their story. Then let them justkeep going with telling you
(08:05):
about camp that week.
But then when you get home, onceyou're able to get settled in to
maybe revisit with them or evena couple of days later just to
check-in just to see how they'redoing.
Marcus Goodyear (08:14):
That's good. I love the idea of stopping at a
park. There's so many roadsideparks along these these roads
and they are underused. But it'sa great way to just get back out
of nature and pause and do someof the grounding things you were
talking about earlier. There'sanother question, Jamie, that I
want to ask.
One of the attendees here had adaughter who went to Mystic in
(08:35):
June and her daughter has beentwo years. She's very young.
She's nine. She's taking ithard. She's had trouble
sleeping. She's been scared. Howcan they help without pushing?
What would you recommend?
Dr. Jamie Aten (08:52):
Well, first, I just want to say thank you for
for sharing that question andthe experience of what your
daughter's going through,because your question was also
going to help other people. Sothank you for that and I'm sorry
that you're having to go throughthat. One of the things that I
think right now as a parent inthat situation would be knowing
that your child is probablygoing to need a lot of extra
(09:14):
support from you. So it's alsocommon to start to see sometimes
with these, especially aroundthat age and with sleeping
problems. If this hasn't alreadyhappened, it may, but I wouldn't
be surprised at some point ifyour child starts kind of like
knocking on the door in themiddle of the night, maybe even
asking if they could sleep inyour bed.
I would say that that would beokay to do for a while if that's
what they need and to spend thatextra time with them at night,
(09:37):
trying to also try to help yourchild to find what are those
kind of like normal rhythmsbefore bed that you had
established already will helpsome with that sleep. But if
that continues, then I wouldencourage you to consider
seeking out a mental healthprofessional to talk through
this and to consider your childmight need some of that extra
support.
Marcus Goodyear (09:57):
Thank you. That's such a kind answer. How
about children who are pushingback on some of the suggestions
you had? Like you offer themroutines or you invite them to
do things that are fun to try totake their mind off it and bring
joy into their life? How youaddress the kids that are really
resistant?
Dr. Jamie Aten (10:17):
Yeah. Well, one of the things that if I were in
the room right now witheverybody, if I could be live
with people, would actually turnthis question. And actually, if
you don't mind, Marcus, I'mactually gonna turn this back in
the same way I would if I waswith you all. So I invite you
all to respond here in the chat.As parents, how do you typically
help your child when they'reresistant?
(10:38):
When you know they're just notfeeling it that day and you're
trying to get them to do a choreor you're trying to engage them?
What are some of the tips thatyou all as parents have that you
could share with others?
Marcus Goodyear (10:49):
Yeah, I would love to hear from parents on
that too.
Dr. Jamie Aten (10:52):
Yeah, and I can go ahead and give my response
too while we're waiting forthose to come in. I wasn't doing
just the typical psychologist oflike, how do you feel about
that? But wanted you all to justbe able to see that you actually
have like I started this wholeconversation with you. You have
more skills than you realize,right? So again, just thinking
about how do we help ourchildren in a regular time.
(11:14):
And that is one of thechallenges here and so with
that, I think it's reallyknowing your child, right? Like,
so, like, for my family, likehumor is something that will, I
will often use to engage my kidsbut also recognizing like, I can
tell when my children are like,dad, that's not just a bad dad
joke. You're crossing a line.Like, it's getting, you're
you're irritating me here,right? So, know that about your
(11:37):
child, kind of where thatthreshold is and and also to
know that sometimes your childmay not want to do something fun
and maybe that's just what theyneed.
Now, again, if you can't getthem out of the house, don't
force them. But if they're justlike slightly like, I don't
really want to go. Well, whydon't we just try it for a
little while, right? But then ifyou get going and it's and
(11:58):
again, as parents, we've all hadthis. I mean, think about the
times where knew better than totake your child to the grocery
shopping at that time of dayafter they hadn't napped or
whatever the situation was andthey fall apart, then, you know,
sometimes you just gotta call ita day and go back, right?
Same sort of thing here. And sowith all of this, know that it's
(12:18):
not going to go perfect, thatyou will make mistakes, but
that's okay. Keep trying, keeploving your child. That's what
they need.
Marcus Goodyear (12:25):
That's great. We're coming up on time, but if
Jamie, if you're willing, Ithink we can take a few more
questions and keep going andthen kind of gauge from how long
people stay on. There are acouple more that I'm very
interested in. One of them is ifif the kids have been insulated
from the news and they don'tnecessarily know what's going
(12:47):
on, but their parents are deeplytouched. How do you how do you
what advice do have for parentswhose kids are sensing the
parent grief without necessarilyknowing where it's coming from?
Dr. Jamie Aten (12:58):
Yeah, great question. I think there's a way
that we can still be very openwith our children, but also open
in a way that doesn't put whatwe're going through on them. So
if your children are sensingsomething, it's better to be
authentic. Now when I sayauthentic, it doesn't mean that
we have to tell them everythingthat's going on or all the
(13:20):
fears. Just to be totallytransparent, like myself, this
disaster really hit me hard too,right?
That you know when I think aboutthings as a parent, it's that's
it's hard. I'm not telling mychildren all of the fears or
things that are racing throughmy mind when I started first
reading the news story thathappened, But I'm letting my
(13:42):
children know if they're pickingup on something of like there's
I'm just having a I'm having arough day. There's some things
going on that I'm I'm I'mstruggling, but you know what
I'm taking care of it or me andmy friend or you know, I'm I've
got somebody that I'm I'mtalking to and I know I'm having
a hard day. You know, you've hadhard days. I'm just having one
(14:02):
right now but it's nothingyou've done.
It's something that I'm workingon and as the parent, I've got
this, right? Know, so we'retaking ownership of it but our
kids are highly susceptible tofeeling those things even if
we've not mentioned it. So, Icould I would just be honest
that you're struggling or you'rehaving a rough day but that
you're working on it and thatyou'll get better.
Marcus Goodyear (14:25):
This this one is is a little bit hard. We we
have camps still in session,right? There's camps outside of
the Guadalupe River area. LLYCis going to be accepting new
campers this weekend, And I knowthat there are camps all over
the country that are going to beaccepting new campers this
weekend. Do you have anyspecific advice for kids who are
about to go to camp or similarlykids who will be maybe going to
(14:49):
camp next year?
Dr. Jamie Aten (14:51):
Yeah, great question. So I want to kind of
approach it first from kind oflike the parent perspective of
like if your child's gettingready to go or or even thinking
about going next year. One ofthe things that I would start
with is just to have aconversation with them about the
camp experience that they'repreparing for in general. Right?
(15:12):
So think about what that wouldnormally look like of, do you
have your sleeping bag?
Do you have your toothbrushpacked? No. Go to your room and
I want you actually bring outthat backpack and show me that
you've got those things packedright? So you're having that
kind of conversation with themand then to ask them, again this
is going to depend on their age,about how are you feeling about
(15:32):
going to camp this year? Rightaway many of your children with
you simply asking that broadopen question are going to give
you some insight of the ifthey're actually scared or not
scared.
That you'll that oftentimes willstart to evoke at least some
sort of reaction, or it opensthe door for them to start
sharing and for you to slowlykinda start leading that
(15:54):
conversation toward trying tounderstand, are they worried
about what happened this year atthis particular camp and how it,
you know, are they worriedabout, is that going to happen
to them, right? But don't openin that large of a statement
like right out there. Give themsome time to kind of work into
it to see where they're atbecause they may not be.
Marcus Goodyear (16:13):
Mhm.
Dr. Jamie Aten (16:14):
But then the other part is to be honest with
them. This is I think the hardpart as a parent is finding that
balance, but to say, Hey, I justwant to let you know, even if
the child hasn't heard anything,that there was a camp and there
were some problems that happenedbut I want to let you know that
the camp that we're sending youto, we've made sure we've
(16:34):
talked, you know, we attended awebinar. We've been getting
emails from your camp. They'vetaken all these great things to
make sure you have a wonderfulexperience And like in
everything in life, right, thatwe always try to prepare our
kids to let them know that ifsomething happens, that there
are loving adults around themwho are there to handle it, that
they don't have to worry aboutthis, that you as the parent
(16:55):
have taken every precaution youcan, that you know the camp that
you trust has taken everyprecaution and that it's being
addressed.
Marcus Goodyear (17:04):
Yeah. These things are so hard, Jamie.
Hearing, yeah, just some thingsyou said just now gave me pause,
but I really appreciate yourwisdom. Go ahead.
Dr. Jamie Aten (17:15):
If I could give you an example from my own life
as well. I mentioned about mycancer diagnosis. Well, at the
time my daughters were three,six and nine. The hardest
conversation I've ever had tohave in my life was to tell my
three young kids that daddy'sgot cancer. And it was stage
(17:36):
four. I know statistically I'mbeating the odds with that. But
in that time we didn't know ifthings were going to be okay.
And as a parent, my wifesometimes jokes that I'm
pathologically optimistic.
Marcus Goodyear (17:51):
I love that.
Dr. Jamie Aten (17:52):
And I just say that I'm optimistic, But
anyways, but I attend thatroute. And so it was so hard for
me because I realized I can'tjust go in and tell them that
it's okay. And in fact, when Icalled to tell my own parents, I
actually told them that at leastwe caught it early. And then I
caught myself of like, no wedidn't. We actually caught it
(18:14):
late.
And so like as we were tellingour kids, put out the facts, not
in a scary way and only whatthey needed and said, hey, you
know we're doing everything thatwe can. Dad's got great doctors.
You know, God still loves us andwe're praying and I'm also doing
gonna start these treatments. Wedon't know if everything's gonna
(18:35):
be okay, but we're doingeverything that we can and
that's something that we arehandling. You don't have to take
this on.
And then we open up time for ourkids to ask questions. And so
that's also something importanthere because sometimes your kids
will ask things that you wouldhave never thought about. Like I
already mentioned earlier, likedon't say that person was
(18:55):
sleeping, but your child, if youask them, do you have questions?
They might say if I fall asleeptonight, will I be okay? Right?
So, so give them space to askquestions. More often than not,
you know, like one of my kidshad just simply said after that
difficult cancer conversationwas, why do we have strawberry
soap in the bathroom now? Right?Like, but the others had some
(19:15):
really hard questions that in amillion years I would have never
guessed they were thinking abouthad we not created this space
for that.
Marcus Goodyear (19:22):
I do want to be sensitive to time. We have a
couple more good questions andwe may not be able to get to all
these questions here, but we candefinitely answer them
afterwards via email. Onequestion is, are there any
specific Bible stories orspiritual stories versus about
God's love that you could sharethat wouldn't be cliche? That's
(19:43):
I think the fear. How do we dowe share these things in a way
that's authentic and real?
Dr. Jamie Aten (19:48):
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think when it
comes to all of theseinteractions, that authenticity
part is so important, right?Like, our kids also know when
we're being fake aboutsomething, right? So, in in
these sort of times, what Iwould encourage you is to think
about how have you maybe donethis in the past and to take a
moment to kind of think throughthat, You know, that you don't
(20:11):
want this to feel suddenly likeyou're doing something totally
strange but to think about, arethere other ways that you as a
family or you personally as aparent or caregiver have talked
to your children about thesesort of things. Know, so maybe
your child has a favoritescripture or maybe there's a
favorite Bible story that theylike.
Start there and to look forthose kind of elements that you
(20:33):
could pull out from that storyor use that then to kind of more
naturally go into theconversation. But like for
instance, it's the sort of thingtoo. Like it could be like some
families listening to this mightsay, well, our faith is super
important but I have a hard timesometimes talking about it with
my own kids, right? So then itmight be, well, then how have
(20:54):
you engaged around faith withyour child? And maybe they say,
well, whenever we come home fromchurch, my child always has a
bunch of questions and that'sreally easy for me then as a
parent to jump in and help. Sokind of look for those again,
those kind of natural moments.You don't have to force it.
Think about how have you done itin the past and how you could do
that and apply it now.
Marcus Goodyear (21:13):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of what I was
thinking that I would just takethe things that I draw from,
which are often the simplethings, the Lord's Prayer and
thinking about how I praythrough that, know, our Father,
thinking about God, the Fatherwho art in heaven, hallowed be
thy name, thy kingdom come herenow in my life, in this room, in
(21:36):
my house, on this street, onthis river, and just kind of
unpack the way I pray. Oranother scripture that's really
important to me is Philippians4, where Paul says, Let your
gentleness be evident to all.The Lord is near. And do not be
anxious about anything. Ineverything prayer and petition
(21:59):
and thanksgiving and presentyour requests to God.
And the peace of God, whichtranscends all understanding,
will guard your hearts andminds. And so for me, there's a
lot of words, but I find peacein the words and in reciting the
words and in letting the wordsjust sort of do the work for me.
Dr. Jamie Aten (22:22):
And on top of that too, depending on the age
of your child, especially if youhave very small children, You
know, maybe it's you know, maybeyou have a favorite book that
every once in while that you iskind of in the cycle that just
naturally occurs that's morescripturally based. That would
be a natural time to pull thatback out again or you know, my
kids, we watched a lot ofVeggieTales when they were
(22:44):
little, right? Like, you know,kind of just looking even some
of those types of moments canmake it feel a little more
natural.
Marcus Goodyear (22:51):
Yeah, there's the story. If you have really
little kids, there's thestorybook Bible. And we, the
Lodge has had the author of thestorybook Bible out quite a bit.
She's she's quite good. One ofour camps, younger camp, Singing
Hills, has used that over theyears.
Shifting a bit to older kids.We've got some who are picking
(23:13):
up counselors who've been tryingreally hard to put a happy face
on and give that camp experienceto kids when they're just
feeling torn up inside. How dowe help them come home? Sort of
related to that, just how do wehelp older teens and very young
adults in general who might looklike they're withdrawing or who
are struggling in such a waythat we don't know how to
(23:37):
check-in with them?
Dr. Jamie Aten (23:38):
Right. With older kids, it can be difficult
in almost the exact opposite wayof little kids sometimes, right?
That with the little kids, wemay be feeling like we wish they
would not ask so many questions,but then our teenagers, they
stop asking the questions andthey withdraw. Right? So again,
(23:59):
a lot of the same principlesI've talked about tonight, them
the space that they need, butkeep engaging them.
Keep looking for thoseopportunities to engage with
them. Keep supporting them. Andthen the other thing too so
first, I'm gonna talk about justteenagers in general, and then
I'll talk about the campcounselors because I think
that's slightly unique aspectthere. But for teenagers in
(24:20):
general, encouraging them againabout what were the things that
they normally do for fun andencouraging that now. So one of
the things that we often see intimes of tragedy is that the
things that we do that help keepus well, that promote wellness
and we know what we should dowhen it gets stressful, we stop
doing those things.
(24:41):
So sometimes it just takes afriendly reminder. Just even
think about like ourconversation tonight, Marcus,
right? Like there's not a lot ofwhat I've shared that's been
groundbreaking, but really justtrying to remind everyone of
these are some things you'realready doing. Here's how to
remember how to do that in thisunique context. So again, doing
the same thing.
One of the things that we havefound in some of our research
(25:01):
too has been having older kidsjournal, encouraging them to
journal. Maybe they don't feelcomfortable having that
conversation with mom and dad ora friend even, but journaling
can be really therapeutic forchildren. And in fact, almost
anybody who can write, there'sbeen research showing that that
can be really helpful for them.So encouraging that is something
(25:22):
else. And then the other part istrying to find ways to get them
around others, whether that'syour family, if it's their
friend group, but bringingsupports around them.
And then to the camp counselorsfor those individuals thinking
to that a lot of them would begoing back to their homes or
families or churches that wewant to be able to help support
(25:43):
them now. But know thatoftentimes the impact they may
not start to really feel it orbe in a place to even really
understand how it's impactedthem for maybe several days or
even weeks. Because oftentimeswhat happens is it takes a while
for us to kind of get our headsaround it. And what they've had
to do is very similar to what wehave to do as whenever we're in
(26:03):
a first responder situationwhich is in some ways like if I
go into a disaster zone I knowI'm going to have a rough day or
rough weeks ahead and I'm justhaving to kind of separate
myself a little bit to do thework that I have to do.
And so but then what happens isthen when you finally slow down
and you're finally quiet oryou're finally out of that
(26:24):
situation, that's when you findyourself just being hit hard by
the emotions. And so that couldhappen to some of the camp
counselors too of knowing thateven though they may be doing
great now that I wouldn't besurprised if some a few weeks
down the road reach out or maybeyou should reach out and check
on them. But again, doesn't meanthat everyone's going to have
that experience but know that weneed to provide and just be
(26:47):
aware of what they're goingthrough not just when they first
get home but even in the weeks,maybe even months to come.
Marcus Goodyear (26:54):
Yeah. That's that's important. It's one of
things I'm trying to do in myown life. I've been I've been in
crisis comms mode since sinceFriday last week, and I'm gonna
take a little take a little bitof time tomorrow to try to
regroup, like you're saying.I've definitely been trying to
manage these things for myself,so I know these counselors are
(27:16):
going to feel that as well.
Really, two more questions thatI think I can combine here from
Jan and an anonymous person thatthe kids are going to come back
and they're going to havemessages on their phones perhaps
that are either misinformationor just that we know are going
to be upsetting if for no otherreason. And some of them might
(27:40):
have friends who were really inthe thick of it, whether that's
at Mystic or La Junta or so manyof the camps actually along the
Guadalupe that had to beevacuated. That is a form of
trauma, just evacuation. How arewe going to What is the best way
to help these kids deal withthis sort of bad news waiting
for them on their phones? Shoulddelete the news from their
(28:03):
phones? What should we do?
Dr. Jamie Aten (28:05):
Yeah. I wish we could delete it and that it
wouldn't impact our kids. Right?
Marcus Goodyear (28:12):
Right.
Dr. Jamie Aten (28:13):
But the reality in that sort of situation is
that they're going to find out.So, maybe even if we did delete
the text, there's going be newtexts that are going to come if
they haven't already, or they'regoing to come across something
on social media scrolling thatwe had hoped that they wouldn't
have accidentally stumbled upon.So, in that sort of situation, I
(28:33):
mentioned about setting asidetime to talk with your child. If
you know this is, like, maybewe're talking I'm gonna give an
example of of a teenager in thiscontext of the conversation just
as an example. But if I weregoing to go pick up a teen right
now from camp, one of the thingsthat I would give them that
space to be able to share, youknow, how was camp?
(28:54):
But I would keep that phone inmy pocket for a little extra
time than what I probablynormally would to give them a
bit of space. And if I know thatthey've had a friend that was
really close to them that wasimpacted before we like, I'm not
just gonna hop in the car withthem. I'm gonna find a place, or
if I do get in the car, we'regonna go and stop and have, you
(29:16):
know, pull over at a restaurantor someplace quiet or but
someplace that we could havesome quietness and be together.
And to let them know, hey, Iwant to give you back your
phone, but before I do, we needto talk about some rough things
that have happened. And thenagain, based on the age of the
(29:38):
child, based on what's happened,checking in, I would start again
by checking in of, have youheard things?
Because even though we think ourchildren have been maybe fully
isolated at camp, there's stilla probability that somehow
somebody might have picked up onsomething even if they don't
understand. So just have thatconversation with them upfront.
And then the other part as aparent for us is to also help
(30:02):
our children understand thatthere may be things that you've
heard from your friends or theremay be things you're gonna see
on social media that aren'ttruthful. If there's anything
that pops up on your phone thatstresses you, I'm here to talk
with you about that. If you'rewondering, did this really
happen in this way to thesepeople or whatever it might be,
(30:22):
I'm here to help you with that.
Right? So we wanna just let themknow that we're there. And then
also if you start for instance,every once in while there'll be
things where I've seen on thenews already about how there are
some misinformation things thatare going out in the world.
Well, if we're aware of it, wecan hedge some of that off by
just talking to our kids of, youmay hear this. This is not true.
(30:44):
This is how I know this is true.Right? So again, relying on that
that being trustworthy becausethe more upfront we are, the
more our children will turn tous when they really need it. And
the more than they'll trust uswhen they're going through more
difficult times.
Marcus Goodyear (31:02):
Thank you, Jamie. We have we have so many
wonderful comments. Todd saysthis makes a difference. Wants
to thank you for what you'redoing. Marvin cites Corinthians
16:13. Be on your guard, standfirm in the face, be courageous,
be strong. That's a good verse,Marvin. Anne's talking about her
(31:23):
20 year old who's reliving someof her time at camp and how
she's trying to listen andvalidate.
Thank you all for being here.Before we go, Jamie, do you have
something hopeful to take us outon?
Dr. Jamie Aten (31:39):
Yeah, absolutely. I don't know,
Marcus, your word choice, Ipromise Marcus and I did not set
this up ahead of time. But Idon't know you can see right
over my shoulder here.
Marcus Goodyear (31:49):
Oh yeah, there you go.
Dr. Jamie Aten (31:50):
So there's this little kind of placard and it's
made of broken tiles and it'sactually from a disaster zone
and was given to me as a giftwhere everything you had, you
know, the person who gave it tome had described the story about
how things had been broken, butout of that beauty they were
still able to make somethingthat reminded them of hope and
(32:12):
gave that to me. And I just wantto encourage you all and just to
know that I'm grateful for youand what you're doing as
parents. And thank you for eachof you for being here tonight.
And remember that one lastthing. So you may have noticed
all the books.
So I'm also a professor and so Iam going to give you one final
(32:33):
quiz before we go. And I hadsaid there was one thing I hope
you would remember and take awayif you don't remember anything
else. And that was just thatyour kids at the end of the day
just need you to love them, tobe their parents and to be who
you are and to be authentic. Andknow that, like I said earlier,
that your presence truly doessay more than any words.
Marcus Goodyear (32:54):
Doctor Jamie Aten, thank you so much. This
has been encouraging andhelpful. And I know that we at
the H. E. Butt Foundation willall continue to pray for
everybody who is here andeverybody who has been impacted.
And we covet your prayers aswell.
Camille Hall-Ortega (33:13):
What you just heard was part of our first
live conversation with DoctorJamie Aten, focused on how we
help kids cope in the immediateaftermath of trauma, especially
something as disorienting andpainful as the floods here in
Central Texas. But we knew oneconversation wouldn't be enough.
So a few days later, we hostedanother webinar with Doctor
(33:34):
Aten, was joined this time byKent Annan, the host of the
Better Samaritans podcast fromChristianity Today. They focused
on real life questions thatparents, teachers, and
caregivers may still becarrying.
Questions like, what do I saywhen my child asks why this
happened? What if they're scaredto sleep alone? What do I do
(33:54):
when I'm still processing my owngrief too? This next Q&A
opened with a reflection on asimple but meaningful activity,
writing a letter to someone whohelped them during the crisis.
After attendees on the webinarwrote their letters, Kent Annan
told them, now cross out thatperson's name and write your
own.
Take a moment to receive foryourself some of the compassion
(34:16):
you hoped to give anotherperson. It's a small act to
write a letter to someone andit's a simple flip to imagine
giving yourself the same levelof encouragement. But it opens
the door to healing, gratitude,and connection. And it sets the
tone for the conversation thatfollows. Let's return to the
conversation.
Marcus Goodyear (34:38):
I just want to start by highlighting the
comment Hillary Commer made inthe middle of the letter writing
activity, that it was sneaky,but also good, which is what
made it work. It's what made iteffective. So just to highlight
that practice again. I wonder,have you guys found that it
matters if you know going intoit that you're going to switch
(35:00):
it? Do you still write theletters to others and then turn
it in your mind and then maybeeven give them the letter
anyway?
Dr. Jamie Aten (35:07):
One of the things that we do often
encourage, and I'm glad youasked that, is to, if you still
have a copy of that, especiallyif you typed it or maybe be
willing to rewrite it, to goahead and give it to that
friend. That there's also asense of power there, that when
we talk about each of thesedifferent types of practices,
that in many ways they'recultivating different types of
rhythms even. And so this kindof practice of compassion
(35:28):
writing, it brings us intoconnection with others. Right?
Like through that exercise,first is it reminds you of your
friend.
Right? That so there's benefit.And if you give that letter to
them, it's bringing you intoconnection with them. And but
then when we start to askourselves to turn it inward,
we're connecting with ourselves,but we're also connecting with
God. Right?
That we're experiencing His loveand that compassion for
(35:49):
ourselves. And we've done thisin different ways, but we found
it to be most powerful when wedon't reveal all of our cards at
once. Because what tends tohappen is as soon as somebody
gets the hint that it's going tobe about self compassion, they
start to kind of lock up andthey don't even know what to
write and they just stare at thepage. We realize it's sneaky,
(36:11):
but we're doing that out oflove. So, have compassion on us.
Marcus Goodyear (36:14):
Oh, it's sneaky like a game. I didn't mean that
to be in any way disparaging ofthe activity.
Oh, no. I know. I was justplaying back.
Yeah. I believe the story I'mabout to tell you connects
everything you've said, but Iwant to tell the story first.
There's been this little viralthing going around locally. A
(36:35):
local leader was was talking andthey were involved with some
journalists and the woman nextto him was sharing how her
family had lost their home. Itwas a three generation home. And
and the journalist said, Whatare you going to do?
And she said, I don't know.We're just sad. And the the
local leader, it wasn't anelected official, but somebody
(36:57):
in our community who is a leaderthat we all respect, actually.
He said he said, we're over sad.Did you say we're sad? We're
over sad. We've got to buildback together. And I on the one
hand, I understand what thatperson was trying to do to sort
of refocus and stay positive andnot get trapped in sadness,
which I, I do think is a realrisk. I mean, it's a risk I have
(37:20):
felt in the last two weeksmyself. And yet it bothers me
that exchange.
I'm not quite sure why. And Ithink it's related to what you
guys are sharing here. So I'd becurious, what would you say to
that person who is sad and whatmight you say to that person who
just wants us all to be over sador maybe just wants to be over
sad themselves? It's kind of ahard question.
Kent Annan (37:42):
Yeah, it is a hard question, but we do think that,
you know, there's action is inresponse to disaster. There's a
need for action. There's a needfor hope, you know? So I think
those are the positive thingsthat, you know, you would have
been feeling. Also, as we'veworked with people all over the
world and country and thesethings, that there's also a need
(38:03):
for lament.
And the lament isn't over in twoweeks, you know, and the
lament's gonna last for foryears. And so that shouldn't be
shortchanged either, because Ithink we rob ourselves of the
lament. We can rob ourselves ofgetting to true hope and to joy
and that expression of Godcaring for us with our loss and
loss of history, loss of life,loss of home, you know? So I
(38:27):
understand where they're bothcoming from and say, you know,
like whoever's feeling thatsadness, you'll keep feeling it
and feeling sadness doesn't keepus from action. You know?
Like, I think we feeling saddoesn't keep us from rebuilding
or from having hope for ourcommunity or doing what's needed
to be done next. So I reallythink that we can hold these
(38:48):
together. Like the Psalms holdthese together that have this
kind of mourning, and they havea desire for action and change,
and they have praise, and that'sthe full experience of of going
through these things. So justencourage everyone to say, like,
we're all gonna be impatient inthese times, and we're gonna
(39:08):
it's gonna be hard to feel thesadness. And for him, he
couldn't feel more sadness, butit shouldn't be that that's the
case for someone else.
You know? That if he can take iton, then the other people still
should be able to. And all of usare in different places and
experience these things indifferent ways. And so we want
to have that grace for eachother, knowing we experience
them differently in this fullrange of human emotions.
Marcus Goodyear (39:31):
Yeah, yeah. That's helpful. It's a very
graceful to answer, actually.The other question that I am
very curious about is our civicleaders and our church leaders
have been under tremendouspressure the last three weeks
really. What advice do you havefor them to avoid burnout?
(39:52):
Jamie, you told the story ofthat pastor with the three
phones and it just I was justgetting tense thinking about it.
But when you are, you know, asmall town elected official
who's making no money at all forthis job you do on the side to
go to meetings all day long,really. And suddenly you're on a
national stage and criticized inways that really reflect a
(40:15):
confusion about what is evenhappening on the ground in our
community and who's in charge ofwhat. How do you help people
like that avoid burnout? Or isthere anything we can do other
than just send them a letter ofcompassion?
Dr. Jamie Aten (40:28):
Well, I think it's, again, going to be kind of
a multitude of ways that we canapproach this. And one like what
you were mentioning, Marcus,that we can also help do things
to support our elected officialsor our local leaders, whether
that's sending a note ofencouragement or maybe you're
seeing them in the community tobe able to share something
positive because they'reprobably not hearing much of
that right now. The other thingthat we found, like for
(40:50):
instance, there was a largestudy that we did where we would
look at some different leaderswho had gone through this major
disaster. And what we found wasthat a lot of the leaders felt
like they couldn't take time offor that they, you know, I
couldn't take a break. Right?
But the ones who tended to farethe best were ones who found
other people that would comeinto their their life even
(41:12):
though they couldn't necessarilyleave at that time. You know? So
I would be encouraging thoseindividuals of, do you have that
best friend that you've not seenfor a while? Or do you have a
colleague that you work reallywell with that had to move a few
years ago? Could they come forthe week and just lend a helping
hand?
You know, another example ofthis, World Vision has a really
neat program that they've beendoing where they've got a group
(41:35):
of pastors who've all beenthrough major disasters in the
past and now are volunteering.And when a large scale disaster
occurs, these same that smallgroup of pastors now go and they
walk alongside and help pitch infor the other pastors who are
now going through it firsthandthemselves. So looking for
others that you might be able tobring in and not trying to do it
(41:56):
all on your own. So really manyof the same principles that we
talked about tonight of tryingto find those small moments of
peace in this calamity, findingmoments of restoration and
knowing your own limitations.
Marcus Goodyear (42:08):
Well, thank you all so much. I appreciate the
time you've given us over theselast few weeks, helping us
gather these resources together,hosting these webinars with us
and teaching our community somuch of what you've learned. And
I know that this will be viewedby lots of people. We've already
had the first two webinarsviewed by so many people, many
(42:31):
more than we really expected,which makes me very excited to
be part of it and hopeful forthe future. And we're deeply
grateful for your time.
Dr. Jamie Aten (42:41):
Thank you.
Camille Hall-Ortega (42:45):
The Echoes Podcast is written and produced
by Marcus Goodyear, RobStennett, and me, Camille
Hall-Ortega. It's edited by RobStennett and Kim Stone. Our
executive producers are PattonDodd and David Rogers. Special
thanks to our guests today,doctor Jamie Aten and Kent
Annan. This episode marks theend of season one of The Echoes
Podcast.
We're so grateful you'velistened, shared, and joined us
(43:07):
on this journey. We're alreadybeginning work on season two,
and we can't wait to sharewhat's next. In addition to The
Echoes Podcast, we welcome youto subscribe to Echoes Magazine.
You'll receive a beautiful printmagazine each quarter, and it's
free. You can find a link in ourshow notes.
The Echoes Podcast and EchoesMagazine are both productions
brought to you by the H.E.ButtFoundation. You can learn more
(43:27):
about our vision and mission athebfdn.org.
In the wake of the devastating floods across
(00:02):
Central Texas, so many parents,educators and leaders have found
themselves asking the samequestion. How do we help our
kids cope with something likethis? That's why we hosted
virtual gatherings to offerspace, support, and real tools
for navigating trauma and caringwell for one another. In this
episode, you'll hear from DoctorJamie Aten, a trauma
(00:24):
psychologist who has spent thelast twenty years responding to
some of the world's hardestdisasters.
Jamie isn't just an expert. He'ssomeone who's lived through
trauma and helped thousands findtheir way through it. He's also
the cocreator of spiritual firstaid, a framework designed to
bring emotional and spiritualcare to people in crisis. This
conversation is full of empathy,wisdom, and incredibly practical
(00:47):
guidance, especially for thosehelping children process grief,
fear, and uncertainty. MarcusGoodyear, my co host at the
Echoes podcast, hosted thisvirtual event and led the
Q&A from Kerrville on July10.
What follows is a powerful,heartfelt resource for moments
like this and for anyone whowants to respond with compassion
(01:09):
and hope. Let's listen in.
Marcus Goodyear (01:11):
We've had a lot of really good questions in the
chat. We've gone ahead andanswered some, and then we're
going to answer some live now.Before we do that, though, can
you very quickly just you'vegone over several do's and
don'ts for how parents shouldtalk about the event with their
kids. Can you just recap thosereally quick? It seems like
limiting media exposure wasreally key.
Dr. Jamie Aten (01:33):
Yeah, that's a really important one and we
oftentimes don't necessarilyrealize how much our kids are
soaking in. So again, going backto that sponge analogy. So we
want to limit our media andthat's not just television.
That's also our social media.You know, if we're flipping
through on our phones to try tolimit that.
And also I would even go as faras to say limit that for
(01:53):
yourself too. So one of thethings I just share
transparently whenever I'mengaged with disaster work, I
significantly limit my exposureto media. And I've been doing
this work in some of the hardestdisasters around the world for
twenty years and I still limitit. So know that it's okay if
you limit your media as well. Acouple other things is just to
(02:17):
avoid kind of those clichestatements that that's something
of, you know, like, you know, itcould have been worse or at
least, right?
Like stay away from those sortsof phrases. And then if we think
about theology, sometimes wewant to rely on theological
statements that are really justcliches. So a good rule of thumb
(02:38):
is if you start to catch thewords come out of your mouth as
a parent, that sounds like it'ssomething that should be like a
country western song or a topblue hit, don't say it. Or if
it's catchy enough that it canstill fit on a bumper sticker,
it's probably lacking any realtheology. So just stay away from
those sort of phrases likeeverything happens for a reason.
Marcus Goodyear (03:00):
Yeah, you know I have to say I do like country
music so I get that.
Dr. Jamie Aten (03:06):
I'm talking just the top tens right?
Marcus Goodyear (03:09):
Right, One of the questions we got early on
was how you mentioned avoidingcliches in talking about death
and euphemisms and GinaRodriguez and Selena Gonzalez
both asked, how do you definedeath simply? Is it like just
their body stopped working orwhat advice can you give us on
that front?
Dr. Jamie Aten (03:29):
That's a great question and it would be really
one of the things that yourresponse will differ
significantly based on the agesof your children.
Marcus Goodyear (03:37):
Right.
Dr. Jamie Aten (03:38):
So right now one of the things that I would
encourage you as a parent tothink about or as a caregiver is
to pause for a moment and tothink about how would I talk to
my child about these really hardsubjects in general in life
outside of the context of thedisaster. Right? So stop for a
moment and just think about,okay, if I weren't on this
(04:00):
webinar because of this disasterand if I lost a close loved one,
how would I tell my child that?Now the reason why I'm asking
you to try to separate it alittle bit is that having that
conversation is rough. It ishard.
But to be trying to thinkthrough as a parent within the
context of a disaster makes iteven more distressful for you as
(04:22):
the parent. So I would startwith the basics and ask them of,
do you know what happened? Andthen to be able to tell them
that, you know, in just verymatter of fact that this person
died because of the flood orthis person died. Right? So if
the child's asking, and thenfrom there to ask them, how do
(04:44):
you understand what that means?
Do you know what that means? Andto listen to them and then to
fill in the gaps from the holesthat they may have in their
knowledge and awareness.
Marcus Goodyear (04:54):
Yeah, that's helpful. That's helpful.
Especially just what may seemobvious, but starting with
thinking about the specific ageof your children. We have a lot
of camper parents on the callwho are about to pick their kids
up. Some of them from LLYC,Laity Lodge Youth Camp, which is
the camp run by the H.E.ButtFoundation, but other camps as
(05:15):
well.
I know at LLYC campers don'thave access to their phones,
don't have access to theinternet, which is something
that is common in camps. In ourcamp, campers didn't know much
at first because of that or evenanything really. But as staff
started taking days off and acouple of other things, then the
(05:38):
word started getting in. Therewas a crisis counselor on hand
to help staff respond tostudents, but they kept things
very high level. What advicewould you have for people who
are picking up their kids thisweekend from camp, whether
that's LLYC or somewhere else?
Dr. Jamie Aten (05:53):
It's a great question. One of the things that
I would encourage you is to gointo the conversation ready to
talk about what has happened.Again, not that you have to know
what to say, but just tomentally be prepared. That could
be one of the things yourchildren ask about pretty
quickly. Or you might evennotice that when your child sees
(06:13):
you that maybe you start to seethem withdrawing again.
Or maybe it's the opposite of,you know, they kind of hug you
and you can start to see themtear up. Just mentally prepare
yourself for that. Now, overall,likely your child is gonna
respond to you, likely the waythat you drop them off. Right?
So and they're probably gonnarespond the way they normally
would.
But again, just as parents, themore prepared we are, then that
(06:36):
helps us with our reaction. Sothen then we are in a place to
be able to hear them and supportthem and that we're not both
needing support in that moment.So one would be to prepare
yourself for that and to kind ofjust mentally rehearse. So some
of you probably have a fairamount of a drive to go pick up
your kids from camp. Mentallythink about what would that
conversation go like?
How how might my child respond?What might I say in that moment?
(06:59):
And then when you meet yourchild, enjoy just seeing them.
You know, give them that big hugthat you were waiting for. Give
them the space to talk abouteverything that they want to
talk about.
So a lot of your kids will hopin that car and they're going to
want to just talk to you aboutall the great things. Give them
that space to do it. And then onthat drive home, if they start
to ask questions about like,hey, did something happen or
(07:22):
something happened to camp thatthere was a counselor there but
I don't really understand. Youknow, if if those types of
things start happening or maybethey hear, hey, Billy said this,
you know, when I was gettingpicked up and I don't know what
happened. Go ahead and have thatconversation but you don't want
to, you want to make sure thatyou're in a place be able to
talk about it more deeply whenyou're able.
(07:43):
So talk to them and address itbut then let them know, hey is
this the sort of thing thatmaybe we actually should pull
over and let's go to the parkand sit outside on the picnic
bench and talk about this alittle bit more. I noticed you
keep asking questions about it,but it also may be that your
child's like, hey, I heardsomething that happened. Yeah, I
know what occurred. And thenthey're like going right on with
their story. Then let them justkeep going with telling you
(08:05):
about camp that week.
But then when you get home, onceyou're able to get settled in to
maybe revisit with them or evena couple of days later just to
check-in just to see how they'redoing.
Marcus Goodyear (08:14):
That's good. I love the idea of stopping at a
park. There's so many roadsideparks along these these roads
and they are underused. But it'sa great way to just get back out
of nature and pause and do someof the grounding things you were
talking about earlier. There'sanother question, Jamie, that I
want to ask.
One of the attendees here had adaughter who went to Mystic in
(08:35):
June and her daughter has beentwo years. She's very young.
She's nine. She's taking ithard. She's had trouble
sleeping. She's been scared. Howcan they help without pushing?
What would you recommend?
Dr. Jamie Aten (08:52):
Well, first, I just want to say thank you for
for sharing that question andthe experience of what your
daughter's going through,because your question was also
going to help other people. Sothank you for that and I'm sorry
that you're having to go throughthat. One of the things that I
think right now as a parent inthat situation would be knowing
that your child is probablygoing to need a lot of extra
(09:14):
support from you. So it's alsocommon to start to see sometimes
with these, especially aroundthat age and with sleeping
problems. If this hasn't alreadyhappened, it may, but I wouldn't
be surprised at some point ifyour child starts kind of like
knocking on the door in themiddle of the night, maybe even
asking if they could sleep inyour bed.
I would say that that would beokay to do for a while if that's
what they need and to spend thatextra time with them at night,
(09:37):
trying to also try to help yourchild to find what are those
kind of like normal rhythmsbefore bed that you had
established already will helpsome with that sleep. But if
that continues, then I wouldencourage you to consider
seeking out a mental healthprofessional to talk through
this and to consider your childmight need some of that extra
support.
Marcus Goodyear (09:57):
Thank you. That's such a kind answer. How
about children who are pushingback on some of the suggestions
you had? Like you offer themroutines or you invite them to
do things that are fun to try totake their mind off it and bring
joy into their life? How youaddress the kids that are really
resistant?
Dr. Jamie Aten (10:17):
Yeah. Well, one of the things that if I were in
the room right now witheverybody, if I could be live
with people, would actually turnthis question. And actually, if
you don't mind, Marcus, I'mactually gonna turn this back in
the same way I would if I waswith you all. So I invite you
all to respond here in the chat.As parents, how do you typically
help your child when they'reresistant?
(10:38):
When you know they're just notfeeling it that day and you're
trying to get them to do a choreor you're trying to engage them?
What are some of the tips thatyou all as parents have that you
could share with others?
Marcus Goodyear (10:49):
Yeah, I would love to hear from parents on
that too.
Dr. Jamie Aten (10:52):
Yeah, and I can go ahead and give my response
too while we're waiting forthose to come in. I wasn't doing
just the typical psychologist oflike, how do you feel about
that? But wanted you all to justbe able to see that you actually
have like I started this wholeconversation with you. You have
more skills than you realize,right? So again, just thinking
about how do we help ourchildren in a regular time.
(11:14):
And that is one of thechallenges here and so with
that, I think it's reallyknowing your child, right? Like,
so, like, for my family, likehumor is something that will, I
will often use to engage my kidsbut also recognizing like, I can
tell when my children are like,dad, that's not just a bad dad
joke. You're crossing a line.Like, it's getting, you're
you're irritating me here,right? So, know that about your
(11:37):
child, kind of where thatthreshold is and and also to
know that sometimes your childmay not want to do something fun
and maybe that's just what theyneed.
Now, again, if you can't getthem out of the house, don't
force them. But if they're justlike slightly like, I don't
really want to go. Well, whydon't we just try it for a
little while, right? But then ifyou get going and it's and
(11:58):
again, as parents, we've all hadthis. I mean, think about the
times where knew better than totake your child to the grocery
shopping at that time of dayafter they hadn't napped or
whatever the situation was andthey fall apart, then, you know,
sometimes you just gotta call ita day and go back, right?
Same sort of thing here. And sowith all of this, know that it's
(12:18):
not going to go perfect, thatyou will make mistakes, but
that's okay. Keep trying, keeploving your child. That's what
they need.
Marcus Goodyear (12:25):
That's great. We're coming up on time, but if
Jamie, if you're willing, Ithink we can take a few more
questions and keep going andthen kind of gauge from how long
people stay on. There are acouple more that I'm very
interested in. One of them is ifif the kids have been insulated
from the news and they don'tnecessarily know what's going
(12:47):
on, but their parents are deeplytouched. How do you how do you
what advice do have for parentswhose kids are sensing the
parent grief without necessarilyknowing where it's coming from?
Dr. Jamie Aten (12:58):
Yeah, great question. I think there's a way
that we can still be very openwith our children, but also open
in a way that doesn't put whatwe're going through on them. So
if your children are sensingsomething, it's better to be
authentic. Now when I sayauthentic, it doesn't mean that
we have to tell them everythingthat's going on or all the
(13:20):
fears. Just to be totallytransparent, like myself, this
disaster really hit me hard too,right?
That you know when I think aboutthings as a parent, it's that's
it's hard. I'm not telling mychildren all of the fears or
things that are racing throughmy mind when I started first
reading the news story thathappened, But I'm letting my
(13:42):
children know if they're pickingup on something of like there's
I'm just having a I'm having arough day. There's some things
going on that I'm I'm I'mstruggling, but you know what
I'm taking care of it or me andmy friend or you know, I'm I've
got somebody that I'm I'mtalking to and I know I'm having
a hard day. You know, you've hadhard days. I'm just having one
(14:02):
right now but it's nothingyou've done.
It's something that I'm workingon and as the parent, I've got
this, right? Know, so we'retaking ownership of it but our
kids are highly susceptible tofeeling those things even if
we've not mentioned it. So, Icould I would just be honest
that you're struggling or you'rehaving a rough day but that
you're working on it and thatyou'll get better.
Marcus Goodyear (14:25):
This this one is is a little bit hard. We we
have camps still in session,right? There's camps outside of
the Guadalupe River area. LLYCis going to be accepting new
campers this weekend, And I knowthat there are camps all over
the country that are going to beaccepting new campers this
weekend. Do you have anyspecific advice for kids who are
about to go to camp or similarlykids who will be maybe going to
(14:49):
camp next year?
Dr. Jamie Aten (14:51):
Yeah, great question. So I want to kind of
approach it first from kind oflike the parent perspective of
like if your child's gettingready to go or or even thinking
about going next year. One ofthe things that I would start
with is just to have aconversation with them about the
camp experience that they'repreparing for in general. Right?
(15:12):
So think about what that wouldnormally look like of, do you
have your sleeping bag?
Do you have your toothbrushpacked? No. Go to your room and
I want you actually bring outthat backpack and show me that
you've got those things packedright? So you're having that
kind of conversation with themand then to ask them, again this
is going to depend on their age,about how are you feeling about
(15:32):
going to camp this year? Rightaway many of your children with
you simply asking that broadopen question are going to give
you some insight of the ifthey're actually scared or not
scared.
That you'll that oftentimes willstart to evoke at least some
sort of reaction, or it opensthe door for them to start
sharing and for you to slowlykinda start leading that
(15:54):
conversation toward trying tounderstand, are they worried
about what happened this year atthis particular camp and how it,
you know, are they worriedabout, is that going to happen
to them, right? But don't openin that large of a statement
like right out there. Give themsome time to kind of work into
it to see where they're atbecause they may not be.
Marcus Goodyear (16:13):
Mhm.
Dr. Jamie Aten (16:14):
But then the other part is to be honest with
them. This is I think the hardpart as a parent is finding that
balance, but to say, Hey, I justwant to let you know, even if
the child hasn't heard anything,that there was a camp and there
were some problems that happenedbut I want to let you know that
the camp that we're sending youto, we've made sure we've
(16:34):
talked, you know, we attended awebinar. We've been getting
emails from your camp. They'vetaken all these great things to
make sure you have a wonderfulexperience And like in
everything in life, right, thatwe always try to prepare our
kids to let them know that ifsomething happens, that there
are loving adults around themwho are there to handle it, that
they don't have to worry aboutthis, that you as the parent
(16:55):
have taken every precaution youcan, that you know the camp that
you trust has taken everyprecaution and that it's being
addressed.
Marcus Goodyear (17:04):
Yeah. These things are so hard, Jamie.
Hearing, yeah, just some thingsyou said just now gave me pause,
but I really appreciate yourwisdom. Go ahead.
Dr. Jamie Aten (17:15):
If I could give you an example from my own life
as well. I mentioned about mycancer diagnosis. Well, at the
time my daughters were three,six and nine. The hardest
conversation I've ever had tohave in my life was to tell my
three young kids that daddy'sgot cancer. And it was stage
(17:36):
four. I know statistically I'mbeating the odds with that. But
in that time we didn't know ifthings were going to be okay.
And as a parent, my wifesometimes jokes that I'm
pathologically optimistic.
Marcus Goodyear (17:51):
I love that.
Dr. Jamie Aten (17:52):
And I just say that I'm optimistic, But
anyways, but I attend thatroute. And so it was so hard for
me because I realized I can'tjust go in and tell them that
it's okay. And in fact, when Icalled to tell my own parents, I
actually told them that at leastwe caught it early. And then I
caught myself of like, no wedidn't. We actually caught it
(18:14):
late.
And so like as we were tellingour kids, put out the facts, not
in a scary way and only whatthey needed and said, hey, you
know we're doing everything thatwe can. Dad's got great doctors.
You know, God still loves us andwe're praying and I'm also doing
gonna start these treatments. Wedon't know if everything's gonna
(18:35):
be okay, but we're doingeverything that we can and
that's something that we arehandling. You don't have to take
this on.
And then we open up time for ourkids to ask questions. And so
that's also something importanthere because sometimes your kids
will ask things that you wouldhave never thought about. Like I
already mentioned earlier, likedon't say that person was
(18:55):
sleeping, but your child, if youask them, do you have questions?
They might say if I fall asleeptonight, will I be okay? Right?
So, so give them space to askquestions. More often than not,
you know, like one of my kidshad just simply said after that
difficult cancer conversationwas, why do we have strawberry
soap in the bathroom now? Right?Like, but the others had some
(19:15):
really hard questions that in amillion years I would have never
guessed they were thinking abouthad we not created this space
for that.
Marcus Goodyear (19:22):
I do want to be sensitive to time. We have a
couple more good questions andwe may not be able to get to all
these questions here, but we candefinitely answer them
afterwards via email. Onequestion is, are there any
specific Bible stories orspiritual stories versus about
God's love that you could sharethat wouldn't be cliche? That's
(19:43):
I think the fear. How do we dowe share these things in a way
that's authentic and real?
Dr. Jamie Aten (19:48):
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think when it
comes to all of theseinteractions, that authenticity
part is so important, right?Like, our kids also know when
we're being fake aboutsomething, right? So, in in
these sort of times, what Iwould encourage you is to think
about how have you maybe donethis in the past and to take a
moment to kind of think throughthat, You know, that you don't
(20:11):
want this to feel suddenly likeyou're doing something totally
strange but to think about, arethere other ways that you as a
family or you personally as aparent or caregiver have talked
to your children about thesesort of things. Know, so maybe
your child has a favoritescripture or maybe there's a
favorite Bible story that theylike.
Start there and to look forthose kind of elements that you
(20:33):
could pull out from that storyor use that then to kind of more
naturally go into theconversation. But like for
instance, it's the sort of thingtoo. Like it could be like some
families listening to this mightsay, well, our faith is super
important but I have a hard timesometimes talking about it with
my own kids, right? So then itmight be, well, then how have
(20:54):
you engaged around faith withyour child? And maybe they say,
well, whenever we come home fromchurch, my child always has a
bunch of questions and that'sreally easy for me then as a
parent to jump in and help. Sokind of look for those again,
those kind of natural moments.You don't have to force it.
Think about how have you done itin the past and how you could do
that and apply it now.
Marcus Goodyear (21:13):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of what I was
thinking that I would just takethe things that I draw from,
which are often the simplethings, the Lord's Prayer and
thinking about how I praythrough that, know, our Father,
thinking about God, the Fatherwho art in heaven, hallowed be
thy name, thy kingdom come herenow in my life, in this room, in
(21:36):
my house, on this street, onthis river, and just kind of
unpack the way I pray. Oranother scripture that's really
important to me is Philippians4, where Paul says, Let your
gentleness be evident to all.The Lord is near. And do not be
anxious about anything. Ineverything prayer and petition
(21:59):
and thanksgiving and presentyour requests to God.
And the peace of God, whichtranscends all understanding,
will guard your hearts andminds. And so for me, there's a
lot of words, but I find peacein the words and in reciting the
words and in letting the wordsjust sort of do the work for me.
Dr. Jamie Aten (22:22):
And on top of that too, depending on the age
of your child, especially if youhave very small children, You
know, maybe it's you know, maybeyou have a favorite book that
every once in while that you iskind of in the cycle that just
naturally occurs that's morescripturally based. That would
be a natural time to pull thatback out again or you know, my
kids, we watched a lot ofVeggieTales when they were
(22:44):
little, right? Like, you know,kind of just looking even some
of those types of moments canmake it feel a little more
natural.
Marcus Goodyear (22:51):
Yeah, there's the story. If you have really
little kids, there's thestorybook Bible. And we, the
Lodge has had the author of thestorybook Bible out quite a bit.
She's she's quite good. One ofour camps, younger camp, Singing
Hills, has used that over theyears.
Shifting a bit to older kids.We've got some who are picking
(23:13):
up counselors who've been tryingreally hard to put a happy face
on and give that camp experienceto kids when they're just
feeling torn up inside. How dowe help them come home? Sort of
related to that, just how do wehelp older teens and very young
adults in general who might looklike they're withdrawing or who
are struggling in such a waythat we don't know how to
(23:37):
check-in with them?
Dr. Jamie Aten (23:38):
Right. With older kids, it can be difficult
in almost the exact opposite wayof little kids sometimes, right?
That with the little kids, wemay be feeling like we wish they
would not ask so many questions,but then our teenagers, they
stop asking the questions andthey withdraw. Right? So again,
(23:59):
a lot of the same principlesI've talked about tonight, them
the space that they need, butkeep engaging them.
Keep looking for thoseopportunities to engage with
them. Keep supporting them. Andthen the other thing too so
first, I'm gonna talk about justteenagers in general, and then
I'll talk about the campcounselors because I think
that's slightly unique aspectthere. But for teenagers in
(24:20):
general, encouraging them againabout what were the things that
they normally do for fun andencouraging that now. So one of
the things that we often see intimes of tragedy is that the
things that we do that help keepus well, that promote wellness
and we know what we should dowhen it gets stressful, we stop
doing those things.
(24:41):
So sometimes it just takes afriendly reminder. Just even
think about like ourconversation tonight, Marcus,
right? Like there's not a lot ofwhat I've shared that's been
groundbreaking, but really justtrying to remind everyone of
these are some things you'realready doing. Here's how to
remember how to do that in thisunique context. So again, doing
the same thing.
One of the things that we havefound in some of our research
(25:01):
too has been having older kidsjournal, encouraging them to
journal. Maybe they don't feelcomfortable having that
conversation with mom and dad ora friend even, but journaling
can be really therapeutic forchildren. And in fact, almost
anybody who can write, there'sbeen research showing that that
can be really helpful for them.So encouraging that is something
(25:22):
else. And then the other part istrying to find ways to get them
around others, whether that'syour family, if it's their
friend group, but bringingsupports around them.
And then to the camp counselorsfor those individuals thinking
to that a lot of them would begoing back to their homes or
families or churches that wewant to be able to help support
(25:43):
them now. But know thatoftentimes the impact they may
not start to really feel it orbe in a place to even really
understand how it's impactedthem for maybe several days or
even weeks. Because oftentimeswhat happens is it takes a while
for us to kind of get our headsaround it. And what they've had
to do is very similar to what wehave to do as whenever we're in
(26:03):
a first responder situationwhich is in some ways like if I
go into a disaster zone I knowI'm going to have a rough day or
rough weeks ahead and I'm justhaving to kind of separate
myself a little bit to do thework that I have to do.
And so but then what happens isthen when you finally slow down
and you're finally quiet oryou're finally out of that
(26:24):
situation, that's when you findyourself just being hit hard by
the emotions. And so that couldhappen to some of the camp
counselors too of knowing thateven though they may be doing
great now that I wouldn't besurprised if some a few weeks
down the road reach out or maybeyou should reach out and check
on them. But again, doesn't meanthat everyone's going to have
that experience but know that weneed to provide and just be
(26:47):
aware of what they're goingthrough not just when they first
get home but even in the weeks,maybe even months to come.
Marcus Goodyear (26:54):
Yeah. That's that's important. It's one of
things I'm trying to do in myown life. I've been I've been in
crisis comms mode since sinceFriday last week, and I'm gonna
take a little take a little bitof time tomorrow to try to
regroup, like you're saying.I've definitely been trying to
manage these things for myself,so I know these counselors are
(27:16):
going to feel that as well.
Really, two more questions thatI think I can combine here from
Jan and an anonymous person thatthe kids are going to come back
and they're going to havemessages on their phones perhaps
that are either misinformationor just that we know are going
to be upsetting if for no otherreason. And some of them might
(27:40):
have friends who were really inthe thick of it, whether that's
at Mystic or La Junta or so manyof the camps actually along the
Guadalupe that had to beevacuated. That is a form of
trauma, just evacuation. How arewe going to What is the best way
to help these kids deal withthis sort of bad news waiting
for them on their phones? Shoulddelete the news from their
(28:03):
phones? What should we do?
Dr. Jamie Aten (28:05):
Yeah. I wish we could delete it and that it
wouldn't impact our kids. Right?
Marcus Goodyear (28:12):
Right.
Dr. Jamie Aten (28:13):
But the reality in that sort of situation is
that they're going to find out.So, maybe even if we did delete
the text, there's going be newtexts that are going to come if
they haven't already, or they'regoing to come across something
on social media scrolling thatwe had hoped that they wouldn't
have accidentally stumbled upon.So, in that sort of situation, I
(28:33):
mentioned about setting asidetime to talk with your child. If
you know this is, like, maybewe're talking I'm gonna give an
example of of a teenager in thiscontext of the conversation just
as an example. But if I weregoing to go pick up a teen right
now from camp, one of the thingsthat I would give them that
space to be able to share, youknow, how was camp?
(28:54):
But I would keep that phone inmy pocket for a little extra
time than what I probablynormally would to give them a
bit of space. And if I know thatthey've had a friend that was
really close to them that wasimpacted before we like, I'm not
just gonna hop in the car withthem. I'm gonna find a place, or
if I do get in the car, we'regonna go and stop and have, you
(29:16):
know, pull over at a restaurantor someplace quiet or but
someplace that we could havesome quietness and be together.
And to let them know, hey, Iwant to give you back your
phone, but before I do, we needto talk about some rough things
that have happened. And thenagain, based on the age of the
(29:38):
child, based on what's happened,checking in, I would start again
by checking in of, have youheard things?
Because even though we think ourchildren have been maybe fully
isolated at camp, there's stilla probability that somehow
somebody might have picked up onsomething even if they don't
understand. So just have thatconversation with them upfront.
And then the other part as aparent for us is to also help
(30:02):
our children understand thatthere may be things that you've
heard from your friends or theremay be things you're gonna see
on social media that aren'ttruthful. If there's anything
that pops up on your phone thatstresses you, I'm here to talk
with you about that. If you'rewondering, did this really
happen in this way to thesepeople or whatever it might be,
(30:22):
I'm here to help you with that.
Right? So we wanna just let themknow that we're there. And then
also if you start for instance,every once in while there'll be
things where I've seen on thenews already about how there are
some misinformation things thatare going out in the world.
Well, if we're aware of it, wecan hedge some of that off by
just talking to our kids of, youmay hear this. This is not true.
(30:44):
This is how I know this is true.Right? So again, relying on that
that being trustworthy becausethe more upfront we are, the
more our children will turn tous when they really need it. And
the more than they'll trust uswhen they're going through more
difficult times.
Marcus Goodyear (31:02):
Thank you, Jamie. We have we have so many
wonderful comments. Todd saysthis makes a difference. Wants
to thank you for what you'redoing. Marvin cites Corinthians
16:13. Be on your guard, standfirm in the face, be courageous,
be strong. That's a good verse,Marvin. Anne's talking about her
(31:23):
20 year old who's reliving someof her time at camp and how
she's trying to listen andvalidate.
Thank you all for being here.Before we go, Jamie, do you have
something hopeful to take us outon?
Dr. Jamie Aten (31:39):
Yeah, absolutely. I don't know,
Marcus, your word choice, Ipromise Marcus and I did not set
this up ahead of time. But Idon't know you can see right
over my shoulder here.
Marcus Goodyear (31:49):
Oh yeah, there you go.
Dr. Jamie Aten (31:50):
So there's this little kind of placard and it's
made of broken tiles and it'sactually from a disaster zone
and was given to me as a giftwhere everything you had, you
know, the person who gave it tome had described the story about
how things had been broken, butout of that beauty they were
still able to make somethingthat reminded them of hope and
(32:12):
gave that to me. And I just wantto encourage you all and just to
know that I'm grateful for youand what you're doing as
parents. And thank you for eachof you for being here tonight.
And remember that one lastthing. So you may have noticed
all the books.
So I'm also a professor and so Iam going to give you one final
(32:33):
quiz before we go. And I hadsaid there was one thing I hope
you would remember and take awayif you don't remember anything
else. And that was just thatyour kids at the end of the day
just need you to love them, tobe their parents and to be who
you are and to be authentic. Andknow that, like I said earlier,
that your presence truly doessay more than any words.
Marcus Goodyear (32:54):
Doctor Jamie Aten, thank you so much. This
has been encouraging andhelpful. And I know that we at
the H. E. Butt Foundation willall continue to pray for
everybody who is here andeverybody who has been impacted.
And we covet your prayers aswell.
Camille Hall-Ortega (33:13):
What you just heard was part of our first
live conversation with DoctorJamie Aten, focused on how we
help kids cope in the immediateaftermath of trauma, especially
something as disorienting andpainful as the floods here in
Central Texas. But we knew oneconversation wouldn't be enough.
So a few days later, we hostedanother webinar with Doctor
(33:34):
Aten, was joined this time byKent Annan, the host of the
Better Samaritans podcast fromChristianity Today. They focused
on real life questions thatparents, teachers, and
caregivers may still becarrying.
Questions like, what do I saywhen my child asks why this
happened? What if they're scaredto sleep alone? What do I do
(33:54):
when I'm still processing my owngrief too? This next Q&A
opened with a reflection on asimple but meaningful activity,
writing a letter to someone whohelped them during the crisis.
After attendees on the webinarwrote their letters, Kent Annan
told them, now cross out thatperson's name and write your
own.
Take a moment to receive foryourself some of the compassion
(34:16):
you hoped to give anotherperson. It's a small act to
write a letter to someone andit's a simple flip to imagine
giving yourself the same levelof encouragement. But it opens
the door to healing, gratitude,and connection. And it sets the
tone for the conversation thatfollows. Let's return to the
conversation.
Marcus Goodyear (34:38):
I just want to start by highlighting the
comment Hillary Commer made inthe middle of the letter writing
activity, that it was sneaky,but also good, which is what
made it work. It's what made iteffective. So just to highlight
that practice again. I wonder,have you guys found that it
matters if you know going intoit that you're going to switch
(35:00):
it? Do you still write theletters to others and then turn
it in your mind and then maybeeven give them the letter
anyway?
Dr. Jamie Aten (35:07):
One of the things that we do often
encourage, and I'm glad youasked that, is to, if you still
have a copy of that, especiallyif you typed it or maybe be
willing to rewrite it, to goahead and give it to that
friend. That there's also asense of power there, that when
we talk about each of thesedifferent types of practices,
that in many ways they'recultivating different types of
rhythms even. And so this kindof practice of compassion
(35:28):
writing, it brings us intoconnection with others. Right?
Like through that exercise,first is it reminds you of your
friend.
Right? That so there's benefit.And if you give that letter to
them, it's bringing you intoconnection with them. And but
then when we start to askourselves to turn it inward,
we're connecting with ourselves,but we're also connecting with
God. Right?
That we're experiencing His loveand that compassion for
(35:49):
ourselves. And we've done thisin different ways, but we found
it to be most powerful when wedon't reveal all of our cards at
once. Because what tends tohappen is as soon as somebody
gets the hint that it's going tobe about self compassion, they
start to kind of lock up andthey don't even know what to
write and they just stare at thepage. We realize it's sneaky,
(36:11):
but we're doing that out oflove. So, have compassion on us.
Marcus Goodyear (36:14):
Oh, it's sneaky like a game. I didn't mean that
to be in any way disparaging ofthe activity.
Oh, no. I know. I was justplaying back.
Yeah. I believe the story I'mabout to tell you connects
everything you've said, but Iwant to tell the story first.
There's been this little viralthing going around locally. A
(36:35):
local leader was was talking andthey were involved with some
journalists and the woman nextto him was sharing how her
family had lost their home. Itwas a three generation home. And
and the journalist said, Whatare you going to do?
And she said, I don't know.We're just sad. And the the
local leader, it wasn't anelected official, but somebody
(36:57):
in our community who is a leaderthat we all respect, actually.
He said he said, we're over sad.Did you say we're sad? We're
over sad. We've got to buildback together. And I on the one
hand, I understand what thatperson was trying to do to sort
of refocus and stay positive andnot get trapped in sadness,
which I, I do think is a realrisk. I mean, it's a risk I have
(37:20):
felt in the last two weeksmyself. And yet it bothers me
that exchange.
I'm not quite sure why. And Ithink it's related to what you
guys are sharing here. So I'd becurious, what would you say to
that person who is sad and whatmight you say to that person who
just wants us all to be over sador maybe just wants to be over
sad themselves? It's kind of ahard question.
Kent Annan (37:42):
Yeah, it is a hard question, but we do think that,
you know, there's action is inresponse to disaster. There's a
need for action. There's a needfor hope, you know? So I think
those are the positive thingsthat, you know, you would have
been feeling. Also, as we'veworked with people all over the
world and country and thesethings, that there's also a need
(38:03):
for lament.
And the lament isn't over in twoweeks, you know, and the
lament's gonna last for foryears. And so that shouldn't be
shortchanged either, because Ithink we rob ourselves of the
lament. We can rob ourselves ofgetting to true hope and to joy
and that expression of Godcaring for us with our loss and
loss of history, loss of life,loss of home, you know? So I
(38:27):
understand where they're bothcoming from and say, you know,
like whoever's feeling thatsadness, you'll keep feeling it
and feeling sadness doesn't keepus from action. You know?
Like, I think we feeling saddoesn't keep us from rebuilding
or from having hope for ourcommunity or doing what's needed
to be done next. So I reallythink that we can hold these
(38:48):
together. Like the Psalms holdthese together that have this
kind of mourning, and they havea desire for action and change,
and they have praise, and that'sthe full experience of of going
through these things. So justencourage everyone to say, like,
we're all gonna be impatient inthese times, and we're gonna
(39:08):
it's gonna be hard to feel thesadness. And for him, he
couldn't feel more sadness, butit shouldn't be that that's the
case for someone else.
You know? That if he can take iton, then the other people still
should be able to. And all of usare in different places and
experience these things indifferent ways. And so we want
to have that grace for eachother, knowing we experience
them differently in this fullrange of human emotions.
Marcus Goodyear (39:31):
Yeah, yeah. That's helpful. It's a very
graceful to answer, actually.The other question that I am
very curious about is our civicleaders and our church leaders
have been under tremendouspressure the last three weeks
really. What advice do you havefor them to avoid burnout?
(39:52):
Jamie, you told the story ofthat pastor with the three
phones and it just I was justgetting tense thinking about it.
But when you are, you know, asmall town elected official
who's making no money at all forthis job you do on the side to
go to meetings all day long,really. And suddenly you're on a
national stage and criticized inways that really reflect a
(40:15):
confusion about what is evenhappening on the ground in our
community and who's in charge ofwhat. How do you help people
like that avoid burnout? Or isthere anything we can do other
than just send them a letter ofcompassion?
Dr. Jamie Aten (40:28):
Well, I think it's, again, going to be kind of
a multitude of ways that we canapproach this. And one like what
you were mentioning, Marcus,that we can also help do things
to support our elected officialsor our local leaders, whether
that's sending a note ofencouragement or maybe you're
seeing them in the community tobe able to share something
positive because they'reprobably not hearing much of
that right now. The other thingthat we found, like for
(40:50):
instance, there was a largestudy that we did where we would
look at some different leaderswho had gone through this major
disaster. And what we found wasthat a lot of the leaders felt
like they couldn't take time offor that they, you know, I
couldn't take a break. Right?
But the ones who tended to farethe best were ones who found
other people that would comeinto their their life even
(41:12):
though they couldn't necessarilyleave at that time. You know? So
I would be encouraging thoseindividuals of, do you have that
best friend that you've not seenfor a while? Or do you have a
colleague that you work reallywell with that had to move a few
years ago? Could they come forthe week and just lend a helping
hand?
You know, another example ofthis, World Vision has a really
neat program that they've beendoing where they've got a group
(41:35):
of pastors who've all beenthrough major disasters in the
past and now are volunteering.And when a large scale disaster
occurs, these same that smallgroup of pastors now go and they
walk alongside and help pitch infor the other pastors who are
now going through it firsthandthemselves. So looking for
others that you might be able tobring in and not trying to do it
(41:56):
all on your own. So really manyof the same principles that we
talked about tonight of tryingto find those small moments of
peace in this calamity, findingmoments of restoration and
knowing your own limitations.
Marcus Goodyear (42:08):
Well, thank you all so much. I appreciate the
time you've given us over theselast few weeks, helping us
gather these resources together,hosting these webinars with us
and teaching our community somuch of what you've learned. And
I know that this will be viewedby lots of people. We've already
had the first two webinarsviewed by so many people, many
(42:31):
more than we really expected,which makes me very excited to
be part of it and hopeful forthe future. And we're deeply
grateful for your time.
Dr. Jamie Aten (42:41):
Thank you.
Camille Hall-Ortega (42:45):
The Echoes Podcast is written and produced
by Marcus Goodyear, RobStennett, and me, Camille
Hall-Ortega. It's edited by RobStennett and Kim Stone. Our
executive producers are PattonDodd and David Rogers. Special
thanks to our guests today,doctor Jamie Aten and Kent
Annan. This episode marks theend of season one of The Echoes
Podcast.
We're so grateful you'velistened, shared, and joined us
(43:07):
on this journey. We're alreadybeginning work on season two,
and we can't wait to sharewhat's next. In addition to The
Echoes Podcast, we welcome youto subscribe to Echoes Magazine.
You'll receive a beautiful printmagazine each quarter, and it's
free. You can find a link in ourshow notes.
The Echoes Podcast and EchoesMagazine are both productions
brought to you by the H.E.ButtFoundation. You can learn more
(43:27):
about our vision and mission athebfdn.org.
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