February 4, 2025 • 32 mins
Words are powerful. They shape our relationships, influence how we see ourselves, and impact how we experience the world.
In this episode of The Echoes Podcast, poet, author, and educator Olga Samples Davis shares her reflections on the significance of words—whether spoken in kindness, passed down through generations, or rooted in faith. Olga reflects on her mother’s wisdom, her journey as an educator, and her faith in the transformative power of language. Because, Olga says, kindness transcends barriers.
NOTES: Do you like this story? You’ll love Echoes Magazine. Print subscriptions are free from the H. E. Butt Foundation:
Subscribe - Echoes Magazine (hebfdn.org)
Watch two Echoes videos featuring Olga in this article:
Laity Lodge's 60-Year Journey - Laity Lodge
Browse our poetry reflections:
Poetry Stories - Echoes Magazine
Buy Olga’s Book, Things My Mama Told Me
https://www.amazon.com/Things-My-Mama-Told-Me/dp/1578568196/
Investigate materials referenced in this podcast:
- Strength in the Lord (Philippians 4:13)
- Ernest Hemingway - “We are all broken - that’s how the light gets in”
- The Story of Jabez (1 Chronicles 4:10)
- “Don’t ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive.” - Howard Thurman
Production Team:
- Written and produced by Camille Hall-Ortega, Rob Stennett, and Marcus Goodyear
- Edited by Rob Stennett and Kim Stone
- Executive Producers: Patton Dodd and David Rogers
- Funded by the H. E. Butt Foundation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marcus Goodyear (00:02):
Last year, in the second community survey from
the H.E.Butt Foundation, weasked subscribers of Echoes
Magazine a series of questionsabout their community including
this one. What words do you liveby? We weren't just asking for
your favorite song lyrics or dadwisdom. We hoped you would share
how you connect with God, howyou see God working in the
(00:23):
world, and you didn't disappointus. Now most of you cited the
bible, which is a good reminderhow many of you believe all
scripture is God breathed anduseful for teaching.
But a lot of you cited otherreligious texts, and you shared
poetry and music and literature.There's so many different
perspectives and beliefs in ouraudience. It's it's like we say
at Laity Lodge, we have anagenda, but we don't have an
(00:45):
agenda for you. In fact, when weset agendas aside, we can build
a beautiful world together. Nomatter where your words come
from, you focused on the samethemes, love and service.
The overwhelming majority of youare living by positive and
uplifting words like hope andpeace, joy, faith, family,
(01:05):
kindness, gratitude, strength,and I'll be honest this really
encouraged me. When I opensocial media or read the news it
can feel like we are just allnegativity and fear and hatred.
I mean, hatred is loud, but atleast in our audience, there
actually isn't very much of it.What would the world be like if
(01:26):
we shared more words of love andhope?
I'm Marcus Goodyear from theH.E.Butt Foundation, and you're
listening to the Echoes Podcast.On today's episode, we welcome
our guest, Olga Samples-Davis.Olga is an educator, retired
from Saint Philip's College inSan Antonio and a poet. I'm here
with my co-host, CamilleHall-Ortega. Today, we're going
(01:47):
to talk about the words we liveby.
Olga, friend, welcome to theEchoes Podcast.
Camille Hall-Ortega (01:53):
Yes. Welcome.
Olga Samples-Davis (01:54):
Thank you.
Marcus Goodyear (01:55):
Yes. We've been talking about, words to live by,
and we asked our audience aboutwords to live by. And I'm just
curious why do you think it'simportant, or or do you think
it's important to have words tolive by?
Olga Samples-Davis (02:07):
I certainly do think it's important. Of
course, I agree with many ofthese wise people in the survey.
We start with the bible or wesomehow include the bible, and
we look for these compasses toguide us in life. We're all
(02:29):
broken. I love what Hemingwaysaid about that.
He said, "We're just all broken,but that's how the light comes
in."
Marcus Goodyear (02:37):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (02:38):
And I always think about that. The words have
come in my life from not justthe Bible, which was the
teachings in our home, but allthose teachers, everyday
teachers in our lives, learningwas something you had to be
cognizant of every minute ofyour life, and everyone had
(03:03):
something to teach. You just hadto pay attention.
Camille Hall-Ortega (03:08):
Olga, we gave a little brief intro of
you, but I'm curious about someof your background. I'd love to
know who instilled in you a lovefor literature and for poetry.
I'd love to know sort of wherethe roots of that are for you.
Olga Samples-Davis (03:24):
There were many. There were many. My mother
more most importantly. But shecame from a long line of
preachers and teachers at a timewhen a very difficult time
because my her father was aminister ordained. Sold the only
(03:48):
valuable thing that they ownedas a family, the house, to make
it possible for him to go toseminary and for my grandmother
to go to college.
That's insane, people would say,but they believed in education.
So it we come from a long lineof people that are very serious
(04:13):
yet joyful about learning andsharing.
Marcus Goodyear (04:18):
That is amazing. I mean, I don't know
that education is only aboutwords, but to to be willing to
sell your house must mean thatyou believe in the power of
education, the power of words.
Olga Samples-Davis (04:27):
I'm telling you. And God.
Marcus Goodyear (04:30):
Yes.
Olga Samples-Davis (04:31):
It was God-centered.
Marcus Goodyear (04:32):
Can you imagine a situation where somebody is
living by words that aredifferent than the words you
live by? And and what do you doin that situation?
Olga Samples-Davis (04:41):
I have found throughout my travels in this
world, be it the neighborhood,the city, a state, a nation, a
continent, that kindness is thelanguage that the blind can see
and the deaf can hear. I mightnot know your language. You
(05:02):
might not know mine, but there'ssomething magical. Maybe magical
isn't the right word, butsomething so rich and good about
kindness that people learn tocommunicate enough to get to
where they want to go.
Camille Hall-Ortega (05:19):
I imagine that someone like you who values
words so much can can make justa huge difference in people's
lives just as you converse withthem. How do you find yourself
using words to encourage others?
Olga Samples-Davis (05:37):
You find the divine in people, and you try to
find it very quickly. The onlyreason why I stayed in education
as long as I did was because youhave a chance to really do
community service in education.I mean, that's some serious work
there. People come with a greatdeal of pain. You don't know
(05:58):
what burden they're carrying.
You don't know where they'vebeen, where they're going. I
mean, you have no idea of theircircumstance until they start
telling their story. And I wasin a discipline where you told
your stories all the time in acommunication division. And
(06:18):
literally, there were people inthe class who just break down
crying and everybody else iscrying too, But it was a safe
place. It was a sacred place.And in those moments, you're
able to just touch a divinenessin a person's soul and offer
them help because now you knowmore. And now that you know
(06:41):
more, you have to do more.
Camille Hall-Ortega (06:43):
I'm hearing now that we share some
background, which I think isreally exciting. My educational
background is also incommunication studies. And I got
to teach at the college level aswell. And I'm just thinking
about you are bringing upmemories for me that are so
meaningful. I taught a publicspeaking course, a summer
course.
And when you're teaching a classlike that, your audience can run
(07:06):
the gamut. The students, some ofthem were back in their hometown
for the summer and they weregoing into a 4-year program at a
big university and they're justhere to get a a credit out of
the way to
take back to their university.And some folks were working a
full time job and taking, youknow, classes here and there.
(07:28):
And in a public speaking course,you have people you know, Jerry
Seinfeld makes the joke, like,people are are more afraid of
public speaking than they are ofdeath. So people would rather be
in the casket than giving thethe eulogy, which which I always
thought was a funny joke. Butyou have people who are really
(07:48):
fearful of sharing words infront of other folks.
Olga Samples-Davis (07:52):
You are so right.
Camille Hall-Ortega (07:54):
Yes. And so to see growth from people
learning how to share theirvoice with words, prepared words
or extemporaneous words, wassuch a gift. I imagine you have
a lot of stories of of studentsthat sort of found the power of
words in your classroom andbeyond?
Olga Samples-Davis (08:14):
I've been blessed to have them teach me,
the first few months of a publicspeaking class when they're
telling these personal stories.I've had I had one woman to go
in labor.
Camille Hall-Ortega (08:29):
Woah.
Olga Samples-Davis (08:30):
A man to faint. I mean, it was just like
something out of a nightmare,you know, that you're right.
It's like the fear of dying. Soeveryone waits to take that
course very end, to the very endof the course. And they just I
mean, you you didn't know whatto expect next, really, quite
(08:52):
frankly. Some people got up andwalked out and everyone came
back even though I tried totrack them down. It was just so
painful right up there with thefear of dying.
Marcus Goodyear (09:07):
What do you think is the source of that
pain?
Olga Samples-Davis (09:09):
Do you remember that old joke or
someone called it a joke, butreally for some people it's
reality. It's almost like you'rebutt naked in front of an
audience. You know, being alittle bit uncomfortable. I
mean, you're you're sharing yourmost intimate thoughts if you're
(09:31):
telling a personal story, whichis one of the most effective
ways to get the attention of anaudience. So you're bearing your
soul. You probably haven't evenburied your soul with most
members of your family.
Camille Hall-Ortega (09:47):
That's right.
Olga Samples-Davis (09:47):
And then they have something on you. You
know? You're afraid of themhaving something that they could
use later.
Marcus Goodyear (09:56):
So it's like a it's like a fear of intimacy,
but but not an inappropriatefear because people use intimacy
against each other.
Olga Samples-Davis (10:04):
Yes. Yes.
Camille Hall-Ortega (10:05):
Or to get closer. Right?
Olga Samples-Davis (10:07):
Yes. Yes. But what I loved about the
classes is if you stayed, we hadthis common commitment to
cherish and keep to ourselveswith those stories. I mean, we
didn't go out. We didn't hearthem all over campus or anything
like that.
Camille Hall-Ortega (10:26):
Right.
Olga Samples-Davis (10:26):
So I thought that that whole trustworthiness
that I tried to ensure for them,They took it and made it happen
for real. And they're still intouch. Most of my students are
still in touch with others intheir classes. So I'm hoping
that continues.
Camille Hall-Ortega (10:45):
There's a bond that's created in that
vulnerability.
Olga Samples-Davis (10:49):
Yeah.
Marcus Goodyear (10:49):
How did you find the courage to share your
voice and your stories?
Olga Samples-Davis (10:56):
I had a mother that said you'll do it or
you'll die.
Camille Hall-Ortega (11:02):
Nothing like a mother to threaten that.
Olga Samples-Davis (11:03):
I mean, come on. I brought you in this world,
I'll take you out. I mean, shedidn't mean that she'd actually
take us to meet Jesus early, butyou felt like she meant it. You
you and you have to understandat the time when I was growing
up, the only safe haven you hadvery few safe havens, so the
(11:24):
church was the mainstay.
And at church, you had to learnto tell your story no matter how
old you were, how young youwere. You had to learn to speak
aloud scripture no matter howold, how young you were. So you
were responsible for speakingaloud those words that could
(11:54):
change lives, and you have totake it seriously. It was not a
simple, I'm going to memorizethis. You have to feel it or you
did it over and over and overand over again.
It was a torture at times. Butyou understood later why that
was so important. And in thoserough times in life, that's when
(12:19):
you could call it up and say,uh-huh. Oh, yeah. I understand
that I can do all things throughhim who gives me strength.
Camille Hall-Ortega (12:32):
That's right.
Marcus Goodyear (12:34):
Yeah. Now in a church, you've got, multiple
generations together. It's alittle bit different than a
classroom where you have usuallysort of 1 generation and then
the teacher. Do you think thatdifferent generations need
different words?
Camille Hall-Ortega (12:52):
I think the words change regardless. I mean
we're in a society where we'reconstantly evolving, and people
are creating what's best forthem in terms of their
communication processes orwhatever. They are they're
(13:14):
making their thing happen, so tospeak in certain generations.
Olga Samples-Davis (13:18):
So guess what? Jump on the wagon, find
out how I can relate to you, andexpand your territory. Take an
opportunity to find out what'sgoing on. It would behoove you
to do so. I mean, it's calledlife.
Camille Hall-Ortega (13:35):
Right.
Olga Samples-Davis (13:35):
If you really wanna live it, you need
to try to jump on the bandwagonand understand as much as you
can.
Marcus Goodyear (13:42):
When you say expand your territory, I usually
hear that used to mean expandyour your finances and power and
stuff. But you're using it totalk about language, to talk
about understanding?
Olga Samples-Davis (13:53):
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I certainly am.
I think, what is it? And Jabezcalled on the God of Israel
saying, oh, that you would blessme indeed and expand my
territory. That your hand wouldbe with me and that you keep me
from evil that I may not causepain and God grant him what he
(14:17):
requested. So, yeah, I'm usingit in the sense of, by any means
necessary, do what you have todo in order to grow without
hurting someone else, andcertainly not yourself either.
Marcus Goodyear (14:33):
This is the 20th anniversary of your book,
Things My Mama Told Me. Does itfeel like it's been 20 years?
Olga Samples-Davis (14:41):
Mm-mm.
Marcus Goodyear (14:42):
They go fast. So when I when I picked up this
book again recently and I was,you know, thinking about it as a
tribute to your mama, I forgotthat very early in the book you
tell this story where your momis kinda picking on you. And you
tell yourself, just accept it.You are her target today. It's
(15:04):
fine. And it's not the sort ofthing I was expecting to get so
early on in this book about yourmother's wisdom.
And I'm wondering, how did youhow do you love your mother's
wisdom and also stillacknowledge that, like, not
every wisdom not not everymoment in her life is full of
wisdom. How do you how do youcreate that separation?
Olga Samples-Davis (15:24):
Marcus, you have children, don't you?
Marcus Goodyear (15:28):
Yes.
Olga Samples-Davis (15:29):
Each child is treated a little bit
differently. You have to tweakyour little program for each
child. I was that child thatneeded tough love. Really. I
mean, when I said I was thetarget that day, just suck it up
buttercup.
Basically, I knew school was insession. I needed to pay
(15:52):
attention because I was about toget the premiere lesson here for
a host of things that I thoughtI knew something about and
didn't know diddly. So I justalways got ready with, it was a
certain look, a certainresponse. I said, oh, I'm in
(16:15):
trouble with missus Bubble, soto speak. It's about to come.
And so really, it was just theseare really moments of wisdom on
a different level. I got wisewhen she made me go through
whatever steps I needed to gothrough to be better at what it
(16:40):
was that I should have doneright the first time. She did
not play.
Camille Hall-Ortega (16:45):
Oh my goodness. Yes. I love I love
this thought of a mother'swisdom and a mother's words
being so powerful because weknow that relationship, you
know, for most people, it it'smeaningful in some way, whether
really positive or reallynegative or somewhere in
between. The mom-childrelationship is really powerful.
(17:10):
I'm curious to know you'veshared a little bit, but I'm
curious to know what's maybe onepiece of wisdom that you
received from your mother thatis most memorable for you.
Olga Samples-Davis (17:23):
Actually, one day she said to me, I made a
terrible mistake. And she saidsimply, in a stern yet loving
voice, "That behavior was notworthy of you." It just hurt so
(17:53):
much. And it was the way shesaid it, yet with the love and
respect for what it was that sheknew was good in me, but yet I
had not demonstrated that. Butwhen she said that behavior was
not worthy of you.
(18:15):
Oh, and this made me rethink a1,000 different things. I went
into a silent retreat literally,and said nothing for the rest of
the day. She had come in andcheck on me because she said, oh
my goodness. Are you sick? Imean, she didn't even realize
(18:36):
the power of the statement.
Camille Hall-Ortega (18:38):
And it stuck with you. It stuck with
you so that those words movedyou.
Olga Samples-Davis: It did. To have that in my mind, (18:41):
undefined
you know, is this I mean, whensomeone's rude and ugly to me,
don't go there, Olga. Don't gothere. Find something right
about the situation. Even abroken clock is right twice a
day.
Find something right. Do notleave this way. Don't even walk
(19:05):
away even if that looks like afight. Just stay and see if you
can't find something right ordivine about this situation and
use it or celebrate it.
Marcus Goodyear (19:19):
Yeah. That that's a that's such a simple
challenge when we're faced withso many negative words to to
always look for the good. Iwonder, like, what does it look
like to have a healthier Texasor or a healthier America? What
kind of words do we need to useto to feel like we are being you
know rebaptized every day as astate or as a nation?
Olga Samples-Davis (19:43):
I don't know if I have the answer to that,
but I will say what I know hasworked for me. To try to be a
better representative of Godeach day. I just choose to be
kind and I don't know it's itdoesn't always work a 100%. I
(20:05):
miss the mark often, but I tryto be kind. And by that, I mean,
to just use words and deeds witheveryday people I run across,
including family, of course, andfriends to just let those words
and deeds offer hope and healingand love and laughter and joy
(20:31):
and inspiration andillumination, education,
encouragement, kindness.
I think kindness is just one ofthe byproducts of love. But
those other gifts I mentioned,they're doable. You go into the
grocery store. Come on.Sometimes the cashier is just
(20:56):
having a terrible day, And theydon't mind taking it out on you
because you're not paying them.
So you you could just ask somehow are you doing today? Fine.
You know, it's very gruff andrough and, just refusal to to
(21:16):
make a connection. It's but allyou have to do is find one right
thing about that person andcompliment them on, and they
will change. You gotta try tolook for the divine, true
enough, but just basic things.
And if they can if you can justdo a little of that, it's like
my big thing is I'm not leavingthis town until I make that
(21:39):
person smile. And I have theworst jokes in the world. The
worst. I they're so corny.They're just awful. You have to
laugh because they're so crazy.And sometimes that works, but I
have to work hard at that. So Itry to do something else. But
just that color becomes you. Youknow?
(22:03):
What color is that? Then theyhave to answer you. Green. Okay.
Alright. Like money. Right? Youknow, you can just just a small,
tiny little thing can make adifference. And then I usually
try to keep going back to thatperson until they they come come
(22:24):
around and they know me by name.And I know them by name because
I always that's another thing.
It's a simple courtesy to speakto that person by name if they
have a badge on. It's a simplelittle thing. And I always use,
"Hello, Horatio. Well, youngman, look at you today with your
bow tie. I'm scared of you."
(22:46):
You know, just have a little funwith it because even if they
think you're crazy as a roadlizard, that will make them a
little joyful because they say,they're crazier than I am. You
know? Something more good willcome of it, but you do have to
try. So I think that's that'swhere we begin with just being
healthy. So maybe we canexchange other things like the
(23:09):
difficult topics.
Meanness meanness is is hard toswallow.
Camille Hall-Ortega (23:17):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (23:18):
It's hard to swallow. And I think some
meanness, there's a degree ofmost mean things said and done
are out of ignorance. I thinkpeople don't know any better.
And if we're not helping them toget to better, it it's not gonna
(23:41):
get better. I mean, really,quite frankly. Misinformation is
out there.
Marcus Goodyear (23:47):
Yeah. Say more about that.
Olga Samples-Davis (23:49):
Yeah. In the classroom, it's our
responsibility to help peopleresearch properly.
Marcus Goodyear (23:56):
That's right.
Olga Samples-Davis (23:57):
And to go to primary sources. Right?
Marcus Goodyear (24:00):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (24:01):
Legitimate. We're not talking about some fly
by night publication that camein or some really unconscionable
media situations out here. It'sjust all over the place. It's
hard to even wrap your headaround at times.
Marcus Goodyear (24:23):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (24:24):
But it starts with, well, where did you
get that information from? Andif you're able to help them see
that maybe that was anincredible source, that there's
maybe heightened understandingand you gap going to another
source? Or here's some thingsthat I've learned. Would that be
(24:45):
helpful? Usually, if you askthem a question, it's not as
intimidating.
I was in the grocery store notlong ago, and someone didn't
notice. I was behind anindividual who turned around and
(25:05):
used a terrible name indescribing black people. And I
said, "Oh, where? What? Who?What? You know, because I know
my rightful name."
So I figured he wasn't talkingabout me. Of course, I know he
was, but the the thing is Isaid, "Sir, did you do you know
(25:32):
the actual dictionary definitionof that word?" And of course, he
wasn't gonna talk to me. But Iwas in a safe enough place where
I could at least put that forthand hope I could run fast in my
car when I got out of there.
Camille Hall-Ortega (25:49):
Wow.
Marcus Goodyear (25:51):
Amazing that you can laugh about it.
Olga Samples-Davis (25:52):
It was it was a public place, a very
respectable public place, but,you know, for him to shout out
what he did those people andthen use that term was just too
much. It was just one of thosetimes where all they had to say
something. Sure. And Absolutely.I said, sir, you'll find under
(26:15):
if you go to the dictionary,you'll find anyone's name can be
under that.
Terrible word that you use todescribe other people. I said,
"Have a nice day. God blessyou." I got my clothing right
there and then walked out thestore because I didn't I
(26:36):
couldn't that's all I could do.But to not do something was not
in order.
Camille Hall-Ortega (26:45):
You exchanged his hatred and words
for kindness with yours.
Olga Samples-Davis (26:50):
Yeah. I wasn't angry. I was really more
sad.
Camille Hall-Ortega (26:53):
Sure.
Olga Samples-Davis (26:54):
Yeah. I was not, you know, I don't do the
anger thing. I mean, even when Iwas in the civil rights movement
and your life was constantlythreatened, I never remembered
being angry. I just rememberedbeing sad and saying, okay,
(27:14):
gotta work harder.
But all of us can find in ourvocabulary words of kindness for
our siblings. After all, we'reall human beings. Right. And
that that's that's a I'm goingto, a side topic here because I
want the words that they say,the Thurgood Marshall said about
(27:39):
this humanness.
He said, "Don't ask yourselfwhat the world needs. Ask
yourself what makes you comealive and then go do that
because that is what the worldneeds." And then he said, "In
recognizing the humanity of ourfellow beings, we pay ourselves
the highest tribute." All wehave to do is recognize the
(28:03):
humanity of our fellow beings,and we pay ourselves the highest
tribute.
Marcus Goodyear (28:10):
I was gonna ask you what word do you think the
world needs now, but I love thisidea that what the world needs
is for us to come alive.Sometimes, Olga, I almost have
trouble believing that you'reyou. It does that make sense?
Like, you're just so good. And Ilike, what like, what's your
secret?
Olga Samples-Davis (28:30):
Uh-uh. I I can be a pill. I can be it's
like you really don't want tosee me on a tear in a classroom
when somebody has broken all therules. It's not nice. It's
respectful. But it's not nice.
You wish like I wish that day. Iwish my mother had just gone and
(28:51):
beat me instead of saying thatbehavior was not worthy of you,
darling. You know? I, oh, I Ihave my moments like everybody
else.
I am in pain like everyone else.I was particularly, an awful
human being I felt when I waslosing my husband, and then I
(29:15):
was losing my mom, And I was acaregiver for both of them, and
they I was losing them in myhome. I just felt like I messed
it all up, and I wasn't gettingsupport from the people I who
had promised support. And it wasjust if ever I was angry in life
(29:38):
at a time, there were times whenI was angry then. That's that's
the only thing.
The civil rights movement didn'tbother me. I was like, hey. If
you're gonna die, you're gonnadie. Walked across this bridge
because you don't swim. It's theChesapeake Bay. Your school's
surrounded by the KKK. Walkacross this bridge. You know?
Come on. Get out of here.
(29:59):
But I thought this this was awhole new ballgame.
Marcus Goodyear (30:03):
Do you think you felt more alone and that
that's part of it? That in thecivil rights you were you were
marching in a group whereas withyour your husband and your mom,
you didn't have asmuch community.
Olga Samples-Davis (30:13):
I was alone, but I forgot something that I
usually practice, which was stoppleading with God and just
please God.
Camille Hall-Ortega (30:29):
Wow.
Olga Samples-Davis (30:29):
I was like, Oh, my God. Lord, please, you
know, please so I messed up.That's where I messed up. Took
me a while to figure it out, butI was spending too much energy
pleading and not pleasing.
Marcus Goodyear (30:48):
And to please God means what to you?
Olga Samples-Davis (30:51):
Well, during that time, trust and obey. You
know? I wasn't running things. Ihad to really think about it. I
mean, I was doing the care, butwho's in charge? God's in
charge.
Marcus Goodyear (31:06):
That's beautiful, Olga. Any last words
about words?
Olga Samples-Davis (31:11):
I've always believed in the power of the
word, and I've always believedin that understanding that at
the touch of love, everyonespeaks in poetic words.
Marcus Goodyear (31:27):
I love it. I love it. Olga, thank you so much
for for joining us today. It isalways a delight, and today has
been no exception.
Camille Hall-Ortega (31:36):
Wonderful to have you with us. Thank you.
Thank you.
Olga Samples-Davis (31:40):
Pleasure.
Camille Hall-Ortega (31:43):
The Echoes Podcast is written and produced
by Marcus Goodyear, RobStennett, and me, Camille
Hall-Ortega. It's edited by RobStennett and Kim Stone. Our
executive producers are PattonDodd and David Rogers. Special
thanks to our guest today, OlgaSamples-Davis. The Echoes
Podcast is a production broughtto you by the H E H.E.Butt
Foundation.
You can learn more about ourvision and mission at
hebfdn.org.
Last year, in the second community survey from
the H.E.Butt Foundation, weasked subscribers of Echoes
Magazine a series of questionsabout their community including
this one. What words do you liveby? We weren't just asking for
your favorite song lyrics or dadwisdom. We hoped you would share
how you connect with God, howyou see God working in the
(00:23):
world, and you didn't disappointus. Now most of you cited the
bible, which is a good reminderhow many of you believe all
scripture is God breathed anduseful for teaching.
But a lot of you cited otherreligious texts, and you shared
poetry and music and literature.There's so many different
perspectives and beliefs in ouraudience. It's it's like we say
at Laity Lodge, we have anagenda, but we don't have an
(00:45):
agenda for you. In fact, when weset agendas aside, we can build
a beautiful world together. Nomatter where your words come
from, you focused on the samethemes, love and service.
The overwhelming majority of youare living by positive and
uplifting words like hope andpeace, joy, faith, family,
(01:05):
kindness, gratitude, strength,and I'll be honest this really
encouraged me. When I opensocial media or read the news it
can feel like we are just allnegativity and fear and hatred.
I mean, hatred is loud, but atleast in our audience, there
actually isn't very much of it.What would the world be like if
(01:26):
we shared more words of love andhope?
I'm Marcus Goodyear from theH.E.Butt Foundation, and you're
listening to the Echoes Podcast.On today's episode, we welcome
our guest, Olga Samples-Davis.Olga is an educator, retired
from Saint Philip's College inSan Antonio and a poet. I'm here
with my co-host, CamilleHall-Ortega. Today, we're going
(01:47):
to talk about the words we liveby.
Olga, friend, welcome to theEchoes Podcast.
Camille Hall-Ortega (01:53):
Yes. Welcome.
Olga Samples-Davis (01:54):
Thank you.
Marcus Goodyear (01:55):
Yes. We've been talking about, words to live by,
and we asked our audience aboutwords to live by. And I'm just
curious why do you think it'simportant, or or do you think
it's important to have words tolive by?
Olga Samples-Davis (02:07):
I certainly do think it's important. Of
course, I agree with many ofthese wise people in the survey.
We start with the bible or wesomehow include the bible, and
we look for these compasses toguide us in life. We're all
(02:29):
broken. I love what Hemingwaysaid about that.
He said, "We're just all broken,but that's how the light comes
in."
Marcus Goodyear (02:37):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (02:38):
And I always think about that. The words have
come in my life from not justthe Bible, which was the
teachings in our home, but allthose teachers, everyday
teachers in our lives, learningwas something you had to be
cognizant of every minute ofyour life, and everyone had
(03:03):
something to teach. You just hadto pay attention.
Camille Hall-Ortega (03:08):
Olga, we gave a little brief intro of
you, but I'm curious about someof your background. I'd love to
know who instilled in you a lovefor literature and for poetry.
I'd love to know sort of wherethe roots of that are for you.
Olga Samples-Davis (03:24):
There were many. There were many. My mother
more most importantly. But shecame from a long line of
preachers and teachers at a timewhen a very difficult time
because my her father was aminister ordained. Sold the only
(03:48):
valuable thing that they ownedas a family, the house, to make
it possible for him to go toseminary and for my grandmother
to go to college.
That's insane, people would say,but they believed in education.
So it we come from a long lineof people that are very serious
(04:13):
yet joyful about learning andsharing.
Marcus Goodyear (04:18):
That is amazing. I mean, I don't know
that education is only aboutwords, but to to be willing to
sell your house must mean thatyou believe in the power of
education, the power of words.
Olga Samples-Davis (04:27):
I'm telling you. And God.
Marcus Goodyear (04:30):
Yes.
Olga Samples-Davis (04:31):
It was God-centered.
Marcus Goodyear (04:32):
Can you imagine a situation where somebody is
living by words that aredifferent than the words you
live by? And and what do you doin that situation?
Olga Samples-Davis (04:41):
I have found throughout my travels in this
world, be it the neighborhood,the city, a state, a nation, a
continent, that kindness is thelanguage that the blind can see
and the deaf can hear. I mightnot know your language. You
(05:02):
might not know mine, but there'ssomething magical. Maybe magical
isn't the right word, butsomething so rich and good about
kindness that people learn tocommunicate enough to get to
where they want to go.
Camille Hall-Ortega (05:19):
I imagine that someone like you who values
words so much can can make justa huge difference in people's
lives just as you converse withthem. How do you find yourself
using words to encourage others?
Olga Samples-Davis (05:37):
You find the divine in people, and you try to
find it very quickly. The onlyreason why I stayed in education
as long as I did was because youhave a chance to really do
community service in education.I mean, that's some serious work
there. People come with a greatdeal of pain. You don't know
(05:58):
what burden they're carrying.
You don't know where they'vebeen, where they're going. I
mean, you have no idea of theircircumstance until they start
telling their story. And I wasin a discipline where you told
your stories all the time in acommunication division. And
(06:18):
literally, there were people inthe class who just break down
crying and everybody else iscrying too, But it was a safe
place. It was a sacred place.And in those moments, you're
able to just touch a divinenessin a person's soul and offer
them help because now you knowmore. And now that you know
(06:41):
more, you have to do more.
Camille Hall-Ortega (06:43):
I'm hearing now that we share some
background, which I think isreally exciting. My educational
background is also incommunication studies. And I got
to teach at the college level aswell. And I'm just thinking
about you are bringing upmemories for me that are so
meaningful. I taught a publicspeaking course, a summer
course.
And when you're teaching a classlike that, your audience can run
(07:06):
the gamut. The students, some ofthem were back in their hometown
for the summer and they weregoing into a 4-year program at a
big university and they're justhere to get a a credit out of
the way to
take back to their university.And some folks were working a
full time job and taking, youknow, classes here and there.
(07:28):
And in a public speaking course,you have people you know, Jerry
Seinfeld makes the joke, like,people are are more afraid of
public speaking than they are ofdeath. So people would rather be
in the casket than giving thethe eulogy, which which I always
thought was a funny joke. Butyou have people who are really
(07:48):
fearful of sharing words infront of other folks.
Olga Samples-Davis (07:52):
You are so right.
Camille Hall-Ortega (07:54):
Yes. And so to see growth from people
learning how to share theirvoice with words, prepared words
or extemporaneous words, wassuch a gift. I imagine you have
a lot of stories of of studentsthat sort of found the power of
words in your classroom andbeyond?
Olga Samples-Davis (08:14):
I've been blessed to have them teach me,
the first few months of a publicspeaking class when they're
telling these personal stories.I've had I had one woman to go
in labor.
Camille Hall-Ortega (08:29):
Woah.
Olga Samples-Davis (08:30):
A man to faint. I mean, it was just like
something out of a nightmare,you know, that you're right.
It's like the fear of dying. Soeveryone waits to take that
course very end, to the very endof the course. And they just I
mean, you you didn't know whatto expect next, really, quite
(08:52):
frankly. Some people got up andwalked out and everyone came
back even though I tried totrack them down. It was just so
painful right up there with thefear of dying.
Marcus Goodyear (09:07):
What do you think is the source of that
pain?
Olga Samples-Davis (09:09):
Do you remember that old joke or
someone called it a joke, butreally for some people it's
reality. It's almost like you'rebutt naked in front of an
audience. You know, being alittle bit uncomfortable. I
mean, you're you're sharing yourmost intimate thoughts if you're
(09:31):
telling a personal story, whichis one of the most effective
ways to get the attention of anaudience. So you're bearing your
soul. You probably haven't evenburied your soul with most
members of your family.
Camille Hall-Ortega (09:47):
That's right.
Olga Samples-Davis (09:47):
And then they have something on you. You
know? You're afraid of themhaving something that they could
use later.
Marcus Goodyear (09:56):
So it's like a it's like a fear of intimacy,
but but not an inappropriatefear because people use intimacy
against each other.
Olga Samples-Davis (10:04):
Yes. Yes.
Camille Hall-Ortega (10:05):
Or to get closer. Right?
Olga Samples-Davis (10:07):
Yes. Yes. But what I loved about the
classes is if you stayed, we hadthis common commitment to
cherish and keep to ourselveswith those stories. I mean, we
didn't go out. We didn't hearthem all over campus or anything
like that.
Camille Hall-Ortega (10:26):
Right.
Olga Samples-Davis (10:26):
So I thought that that whole trustworthiness
that I tried to ensure for them,They took it and made it happen
for real. And they're still intouch. Most of my students are
still in touch with others intheir classes. So I'm hoping
that continues.
Camille Hall-Ortega (10:45):
There's a bond that's created in that
vulnerability.
Olga Samples-Davis (10:49):
Yeah.
Marcus Goodyear (10:49):
How did you find the courage to share your
voice and your stories?
Olga Samples-Davis (10:56):
I had a mother that said you'll do it or
you'll die.
Camille Hall-Ortega (11:02):
Nothing like a mother to threaten that.
Olga Samples-Davis (11:03):
I mean, come on. I brought you in this world,
I'll take you out. I mean, shedidn't mean that she'd actually
take us to meet Jesus early, butyou felt like she meant it. You
you and you have to understandat the time when I was growing
up, the only safe haven you hadvery few safe havens, so the
(11:24):
church was the mainstay.
And at church, you had to learnto tell your story no matter how
old you were, how young youwere. You had to learn to speak
aloud scripture no matter howold, how young you were. So you
were responsible for speakingaloud those words that could
(11:54):
change lives, and you have totake it seriously. It was not a
simple, I'm going to memorizethis. You have to feel it or you
did it over and over and overand over again.
It was a torture at times. Butyou understood later why that
was so important. And in thoserough times in life, that's when
(12:19):
you could call it up and say,uh-huh. Oh, yeah. I understand
that I can do all things throughhim who gives me strength.
Camille Hall-Ortega (12:32):
That's right.
Marcus Goodyear (12:34):
Yeah. Now in a church, you've got, multiple
generations together. It's alittle bit different than a
classroom where you have usuallysort of 1 generation and then
the teacher. Do you think thatdifferent generations need
different words?
Camille Hall-Ortega (12:52):
I think the words change regardless. I mean
we're in a society where we'reconstantly evolving, and people
are creating what's best forthem in terms of their
communication processes orwhatever. They are they're
(13:14):
making their thing happen, so tospeak in certain generations.
Olga Samples-Davis (13:18):
So guess what? Jump on the wagon, find
out how I can relate to you, andexpand your territory. Take an
opportunity to find out what'sgoing on. It would behoove you
to do so. I mean, it's calledlife.
Camille Hall-Ortega (13:35):
Right.
Olga Samples-Davis (13:35):
If you really wanna live it, you need
to try to jump on the bandwagonand understand as much as you
can.
Marcus Goodyear (13:42):
When you say expand your territory, I usually
hear that used to mean expandyour your finances and power and
stuff. But you're using it totalk about language, to talk
about understanding?
Olga Samples-Davis (13:53):
Yes. Yes. Yeah. I certainly am.
I think, what is it? And Jabezcalled on the God of Israel
saying, oh, that you would blessme indeed and expand my
territory. That your hand wouldbe with me and that you keep me
from evil that I may not causepain and God grant him what he
(14:17):
requested. So, yeah, I'm usingit in the sense of, by any means
necessary, do what you have todo in order to grow without
hurting someone else, andcertainly not yourself either.
Marcus Goodyear (14:33):
This is the 20th anniversary of your book,
Things My Mama Told Me. Does itfeel like it's been 20 years?
Olga Samples-Davis (14:41):
Mm-mm.
Marcus Goodyear (14:42):
They go fast. So when I when I picked up this
book again recently and I was,you know, thinking about it as a
tribute to your mama, I forgotthat very early in the book you
tell this story where your momis kinda picking on you. And you
tell yourself, just accept it.You are her target today. It's
(15:04):
fine. And it's not the sort ofthing I was expecting to get so
early on in this book about yourmother's wisdom.
And I'm wondering, how did youhow do you love your mother's
wisdom and also stillacknowledge that, like, not
every wisdom not not everymoment in her life is full of
wisdom. How do you how do youcreate that separation?
Olga Samples-Davis (15:24):
Marcus, you have children, don't you?
Marcus Goodyear (15:28):
Yes.
Olga Samples-Davis (15:29):
Each child is treated a little bit
differently. You have to tweakyour little program for each
child. I was that child thatneeded tough love. Really. I
mean, when I said I was thetarget that day, just suck it up
buttercup.
Basically, I knew school was insession. I needed to pay
(15:52):
attention because I was about toget the premiere lesson here for
a host of things that I thoughtI knew something about and
didn't know diddly. So I justalways got ready with, it was a
certain look, a certainresponse. I said, oh, I'm in
(16:15):
trouble with missus Bubble, soto speak. It's about to come.
And so really, it was just theseare really moments of wisdom on
a different level. I got wisewhen she made me go through
whatever steps I needed to gothrough to be better at what it
(16:40):
was that I should have doneright the first time. She did
not play.
Camille Hall-Ortega (16:45):
Oh my goodness. Yes. I love I love
this thought of a mother'swisdom and a mother's words
being so powerful because weknow that relationship, you
know, for most people, it it'smeaningful in some way, whether
really positive or reallynegative or somewhere in
between. The mom-childrelationship is really powerful.
(17:10):
I'm curious to know you'veshared a little bit, but I'm
curious to know what's maybe onepiece of wisdom that you
received from your mother thatis most memorable for you.
Olga Samples-Davis (17:23):
Actually, one day she said to me, I made a
terrible mistake. And she saidsimply, in a stern yet loving
voice, "That behavior was notworthy of you." It just hurt so
(17:53):
much. And it was the way shesaid it, yet with the love and
respect for what it was that sheknew was good in me, but yet I
had not demonstrated that. Butwhen she said that behavior was
not worthy of you.
(18:15):
Oh, and this made me rethink a1,000 different things. I went
into a silent retreat literally,and said nothing for the rest of
the day. She had come in andcheck on me because she said, oh
my goodness. Are you sick? Imean, she didn't even realize
(18:36):
the power of the statement.
Camille Hall-Ortega (18:38):
And it stuck with you. It stuck with
you so that those words movedyou.
Olga Samples-Davis: It did. To have that in my mind, (18:41):
undefined
you know, is this I mean, whensomeone's rude and ugly to me,
don't go there, Olga. Don't gothere. Find something right
about the situation. Even abroken clock is right twice a
day.
Find something right. Do notleave this way. Don't even walk
(19:05):
away even if that looks like afight. Just stay and see if you
can't find something right ordivine about this situation and
use it or celebrate it.
Marcus Goodyear (19:19):
Yeah. That that's a that's such a simple
challenge when we're faced withso many negative words to to
always look for the good. Iwonder, like, what does it look
like to have a healthier Texasor or a healthier America? What
kind of words do we need to useto to feel like we are being you
know rebaptized every day as astate or as a nation?
Olga Samples-Davis (19:43):
I don't know if I have the answer to that,
but I will say what I know hasworked for me. To try to be a
better representative of Godeach day. I just choose to be
kind and I don't know it's itdoesn't always work a 100%. I
(20:05):
miss the mark often, but I tryto be kind. And by that, I mean,
to just use words and deeds witheveryday people I run across,
including family, of course, andfriends to just let those words
and deeds offer hope and healingand love and laughter and joy
(20:31):
and inspiration andillumination, education,
encouragement, kindness.
I think kindness is just one ofthe byproducts of love. But
those other gifts I mentioned,they're doable. You go into the
grocery store. Come on.Sometimes the cashier is just
(20:56):
having a terrible day, And theydon't mind taking it out on you
because you're not paying them.
So you you could just ask somehow are you doing today? Fine.
You know, it's very gruff andrough and, just refusal to to
(21:16):
make a connection. It's but allyou have to do is find one right
thing about that person andcompliment them on, and they
will change. You gotta try tolook for the divine, true
enough, but just basic things.
And if they can if you can justdo a little of that, it's like
my big thing is I'm not leavingthis town until I make that
(21:39):
person smile. And I have theworst jokes in the world. The
worst. I they're so corny.They're just awful. You have to
laugh because they're so crazy.And sometimes that works, but I
have to work hard at that. So Itry to do something else. But
just that color becomes you. Youknow?
(22:03):
What color is that? Then theyhave to answer you. Green. Okay.
Alright. Like money. Right? Youknow, you can just just a small,
tiny little thing can make adifference. And then I usually
try to keep going back to thatperson until they they come come
(22:24):
around and they know me by name.And I know them by name because
I always that's another thing.
It's a simple courtesy to speakto that person by name if they
have a badge on. It's a simplelittle thing. And I always use,
"Hello, Horatio. Well, youngman, look at you today with your
bow tie. I'm scared of you."
(22:46):
You know, just have a little funwith it because even if they
think you're crazy as a roadlizard, that will make them a
little joyful because they say,they're crazier than I am. You
know? Something more good willcome of it, but you do have to
try. So I think that's that'swhere we begin with just being
healthy. So maybe we canexchange other things like the
(23:09):
difficult topics.
Meanness meanness is is hard toswallow.
Camille Hall-Ortega (23:17):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (23:18):
It's hard to swallow. And I think some
meanness, there's a degree ofmost mean things said and done
are out of ignorance. I thinkpeople don't know any better.
And if we're not helping them toget to better, it it's not gonna
(23:41):
get better. I mean, really,quite frankly. Misinformation is
out there.
Marcus Goodyear (23:47):
Yeah. Say more about that.
Olga Samples-Davis (23:49):
Yeah. In the classroom, it's our
responsibility to help peopleresearch properly.
Marcus Goodyear (23:56):
That's right.
Olga Samples-Davis (23:57):
And to go to primary sources. Right?
Marcus Goodyear (24:00):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (24:01):
Legitimate. We're not talking about some fly
by night publication that camein or some really unconscionable
media situations out here. It'sjust all over the place. It's
hard to even wrap your headaround at times.
Marcus Goodyear (24:23):
Yeah.
Olga Samples-Davis (24:24):
But it starts with, well, where did you
get that information from? Andif you're able to help them see
that maybe that was anincredible source, that there's
maybe heightened understandingand you gap going to another
source? Or here's some thingsthat I've learned. Would that be
(24:45):
helpful? Usually, if you askthem a question, it's not as
intimidating.
I was in the grocery store notlong ago, and someone didn't
notice. I was behind anindividual who turned around and
(25:05):
used a terrible name indescribing black people. And I
said, "Oh, where? What? Who?What? You know, because I know
my rightful name."
So I figured he wasn't talkingabout me. Of course, I know he
was, but the the thing is Isaid, "Sir, did you do you know
(25:32):
the actual dictionary definitionof that word?" And of course, he
wasn't gonna talk to me. But Iwas in a safe enough place where
I could at least put that forthand hope I could run fast in my
car when I got out of there.
Camille Hall-Ortega (25:49):
Wow.
Marcus Goodyear (25:51):
Amazing that you can laugh about it.
Olga Samples-Davis (25:52):
It was it was a public place, a very
respectable public place, but,you know, for him to shout out
what he did those people andthen use that term was just too
much. It was just one of thosetimes where all they had to say
something. Sure. And Absolutely.I said, sir, you'll find under
(26:15):
if you go to the dictionary,you'll find anyone's name can be
under that.
Terrible word that you use todescribe other people. I said,
"Have a nice day. God blessyou." I got my clothing right
there and then walked out thestore because I didn't I
(26:36):
couldn't that's all I could do.But to not do something was not
in order.
Camille Hall-Ortega (26:45):
You exchanged his hatred and words
for kindness with yours.
Olga Samples-Davis (26:50):
Yeah. I wasn't angry. I was really more
sad.
Camille Hall-Ortega (26:53):
Sure.
Olga Samples-Davis (26:54):
Yeah. I was not, you know, I don't do the
anger thing. I mean, even when Iwas in the civil rights movement
and your life was constantlythreatened, I never remembered
being angry. I just rememberedbeing sad and saying, okay,
(27:14):
gotta work harder.
But all of us can find in ourvocabulary words of kindness for
our siblings. After all, we'reall human beings. Right. And
that that's that's a I'm goingto, a side topic here because I
want the words that they say,the Thurgood Marshall said about
(27:39):
this humanness.
He said, "Don't ask yourselfwhat the world needs. Ask
yourself what makes you comealive and then go do that
because that is what the worldneeds." And then he said, "In
recognizing the humanity of ourfellow beings, we pay ourselves
the highest tribute." All wehave to do is recognize the
(28:03):
humanity of our fellow beings,and we pay ourselves the highest
tribute.
Marcus Goodyear (28:10):
I was gonna ask you what word do you think the
world needs now, but I love thisidea that what the world needs
is for us to come alive.Sometimes, Olga, I almost have
trouble believing that you'reyou. It does that make sense?
Like, you're just so good. And Ilike, what like, what's your
secret?
Olga Samples-Davis (28:30):
Uh-uh. I I can be a pill. I can be it's
like you really don't want tosee me on a tear in a classroom
when somebody has broken all therules. It's not nice. It's
respectful. But it's not nice.
You wish like I wish that day. Iwish my mother had just gone and
(28:51):
beat me instead of saying thatbehavior was not worthy of you,
darling. You know? I, oh, I Ihave my moments like everybody
else.
I am in pain like everyone else.I was particularly, an awful
human being I felt when I waslosing my husband, and then I
(29:15):
was losing my mom, And I was acaregiver for both of them, and
they I was losing them in myhome. I just felt like I messed
it all up, and I wasn't gettingsupport from the people I who
had promised support. And it wasjust if ever I was angry in life
(29:38):
at a time, there were times whenI was angry then. That's that's
the only thing.
The civil rights movement didn'tbother me. I was like, hey. If
you're gonna die, you're gonnadie. Walked across this bridge
because you don't swim. It's theChesapeake Bay. Your school's
surrounded by the KKK. Walkacross this bridge. You know?
Come on. Get out of here.
(29:59):
But I thought this this was awhole new ballgame.
Marcus Goodyear (30:03):
Do you think you felt more alone and that
that's part of it? That in thecivil rights you were you were
marching in a group whereas withyour your husband and your mom,
you didn't have asmuch community.
Olga Samples-Davis (30:13):
I was alone, but I forgot something that I
usually practice, which was stoppleading with God and just
please God.
Camille Hall-Ortega (30:29):
Wow.
Olga Samples-Davis (30:29):
I was like, Oh, my God. Lord, please, you
know, please so I messed up.That's where I messed up. Took
me a while to figure it out, butI was spending too much energy
pleading and not pleasing.
Marcus Goodyear (30:48):
And to please God means what to you?
Olga Samples-Davis (30:51):
Well, during that time, trust and obey. You
know? I wasn't running things. Ihad to really think about it. I
mean, I was doing the care, butwho's in charge? God's in
charge.
Marcus Goodyear (31:06):
That's beautiful, Olga. Any last words
about words?
Olga Samples-Davis (31:11):
I've always believed in the power of the
word, and I've always believedin that understanding that at
the touch of love, everyonespeaks in poetic words.
Marcus Goodyear (31:27):
I love it. I love it. Olga, thank you so much
for for joining us today. It isalways a delight, and today has
been no exception.
Camille Hall-Ortega (31:36):
Wonderful to have you with us. Thank you.
Thank you.
Olga Samples-Davis (31:40):
Pleasure.
Camille Hall-Ortega (31:43):
The Echoes Podcast is written and produced
by Marcus Goodyear, RobStennett, and me, Camille
Hall-Ortega. It's edited by RobStennett and Kim Stone. Our
executive producers are PattonDodd and David Rogers. Special
thanks to our guest today, OlgaSamples-Davis. The Echoes
Podcast is a production broughtto you by the H E H.E.Butt
Foundation.
You can learn more about ourvision and mission at
hebfdn.org.
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