Clayton Cranford | Digital Safety, Cyberbullying, Mental Health | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #34 - The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When someone knocks on your door, you look to see
who it is.
You make a very simple decisionIs this person okay to come
into my home?
And who are the two groups ofpeople Friends and family?
So that is the same rule foryour digital world.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Because there's always this battle for
leadership right and it is.
It's a battle for I'm theleader.
You listen to me, this is myhome and that stuff doesn't
really work anymore.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Every school is going to have a kid attempting
suicide.
Like if I go speak at a schoolright after something like this
happens, the room is packed, butif there's nothing going on in
that school, then I get like 1%of the school's parents show up.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
The desperation of parents.
Like, seriously, look at it.
Like now we're all trying tofigure out apps, we're engineers
.
All of a sudden, you know, it'slike we're all these like
scientists, engineers, trying todevelop all these ways to keep
these freaks away from our kids.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
He pulls up his kids' Roblox.
He looks up the chat log and hesees that his eight-year-old
boy has been talking to someoneon there who's saying he's also
eight years old, but talkingabout explicit sex Stop.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Hello everyone.
Today's podcast was all aboutpredators how to keep our
children safe.
Our guest was Sergeant ClaytonCranford, a retired sergeant and
officer, author of Parenting inthe Digital World and founder
and owner of Cyber Safety Cop.
Clayton's purpose is to teachparents on how to keep their

(01:28):
children safe from pedophiles,predators in general abuse, and
this is from all media platforms, including gaming and Discord.
In this episode, we discusspredators, how they find our
kids.
We talk a little bit abouthuman trafficking.
We talk about abuse that'shappening in our school systems.
We talk about school shootingsand everything and anything

(01:50):
related to protecting our kids.
Clayton is doing God's work.
He's going into so many schoolsteaching parents on how to keep
their kids safe, teachingstudents, teaching teachers.
I think that his work isphenomenal.
This podcast is definitely atrigger warning because we do
talk about predators.
We do talk about pedophiles.

(02:11):
We talked a little bit aboutthe prison systems.
We talk about sexual abuse andhow it runs with either with
boys or with girls.
In general, it was just a veryinteresting, heavy topic.
If you're a parent, this isdefinitely a podcast that you
want to hear, because theinformation that he has is
phenomenal and I think it's veryuseful.

(02:33):
He does mention some apps thatwe can utilize to track and
protect our kids.
We talk about you know what ageis appropriate to have sex
conversations with our kids.
We talk about sexting.
We do talk about some of theseapps.
Again, going back to Instagram,gaming platforms, discord we

(02:53):
did talk about which platformsare basically targeted more, and
so that was kind of interestingto hear him say.
I hope you guys enjoyed thisepisode because it was
definitely an eye-opener andsome of these predators are
pretty intense and I really wantyou guys to hone in on this
podcast so you guys can protectyour kids too optimally.

(03:18):
And we did go back a little bitand talk about how during, you
know, the 1990s, it was sosecure and safe.
And when did all of this start?
These depression, the suicidalideation, the anxiety with kids.
There are so many kidscommitting suicide because of
these bullies, because of thesepredators on social media.

(03:40):
So this is something todefinitely be alert about, to be
worried about.
But this podcast willdefinitely teach you a lot and
it will guide you on how toreally be mindful and be that
protective parent.
Thank you for joining me, thankyou for supporting me and, to
be a more optimal support.
Please make sure to subscribeto the channel.
Thank you, clayton, it's sonice having you on.

(04:01):
Thank you so much for acceptingmy invitation.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Absolutely.
It's such an honor.
I love your work.
I think you're doing God's work.
It really is Saving a lot ofkids, helping a lot of parents.
Tell us a little bit about howthis idea was born.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
It was born out of necessity.
So I'm retired.
I was in law—not retired, butretired from law enforcement for
more than 20 years and I was aschool resource officer in a
city of 14,000 students.
I was the one and only schoolresource officer at Rancho Santa
Margarita in Orange County, andthis is in 2012.
And this was really the timewhere we saw a major transition

(04:42):
with regards to children andtheir technology, because,
leading up to that, children hadphones, teens had phones, but
mostly flip phones.
And then 2010,.
The iPhone 4 came out with theforward-facing camera, and that
kind of changed everything.
Right, your relationship withyour device where you could take
a selfie really changed things.
So we went from 2010 to, like,say, 2014.

(05:03):
We went from 20% of teenshaving smartphones to about 80
plus percent, and so I was rightin the middle of this and so,
consequently, as a schoolresource officer, I was just
dealing with on a daily basiswith all these students kids
making bad choices, bullying,threats, children who are

(05:25):
victims of online sexualexploitation or children who are
sexting other students and thenwere also exploited.
And inevitably, you know and atthe same time, I also was a
parent I had two boys who wereabout that age, at that time as
well.

(05:55):
So what I found myself time andagain in situations where I'd be
sitting across from a studentand we were talking about you
know what happened, et cetera,and they just complete
disconnect between what they'redoing online and those
consequences were, and it wasreally hard for them to kind of
figure that out.
So, like kids know, you don'tgo up to strangers and share
your personal information withthem.
They would never do that.
But online there's no's, nocompunction, right.
They have no problem doing this.
It's because you're looking ata screen, not a human being, and
therefore just makes it easyfor a kid to say some really
mean, hurtful or gross things orjust make some bad choices.

(06:17):
So then I'd sit down with theparent and I'd say, hey, this is
what happened to your kid today, and sometimes these things
were heartbreaking and a lot oftimes the parents are just blown
away.
They're like my kid doesn't sayracist things, or my kid would
never share a nude image ofthemselves, just like the things

(06:37):
that were just mind-blowing forthem.
But because it was happeningonline, this kid ventured into
an area or some behaviors thatthey normally wouldn't have
face-to-face.
So this was happening all thetime and I'm like you know what
and I had a background inteaching, I'm like you know what
.
I'm.
Just I want to put somethingtogether to help parents and

(06:57):
give them some tools.
And also I wanted to probablyto some degree figure out some
tools for myself, for my ownboys.
And then I'm like, okay, I needto probably to some degree
figure out some tools for myselfand my own boys.
And then I'm like, okay, I needto talk.
And then after I did that andthat was, I had parents coming
from all over to hear this talk,because no one was talking
about it.
There was just very little outthere.

(07:18):
And then I'm like, okay, I wantto talk to students, I want to
talk to students about thesechoices and the consequences,
and so that was happening.
So I had people coming from allover and they were asking me to
come to their school, to theircity and cities outside the
sheriff's jurisdiction, and sofinally I realized that I needed
to do that, but the sheriff'sdepartment wasn't going to pay

(07:40):
me, and so it basically turnedinto a business.
It was something I neverplanned to happen.
It's been a huge blessing forme, because I mean, the thing
that I loved most about lawenforcement was that position as
a school resource officer.
I later went on to ourbehavioral threat assessment
team, so I'd go all over OrangeCounty and assess threats at
schools.
Most of those threats werehappening online and yeah, so it

(08:03):
was an.
It was an opportunity to kindof continue the things I loved
and I loved like today.
I was at a school I talked to.
We had an assembly for Kthrough three third graders just
these little guys that come in,just cute, sit on the floor
crisscross applesauce, superexcited, and we were talking
about how to be safe and kindonline and I asked them you know
, raise your hand if you haveyour own phone.
And nearly 20 to 30 percent ofthe hands go up.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
At that age.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
At that age and that was never.
That wasn't a thing.
When I started this, like 10years ago, it was unusual.
And then we had the fourththrough sixth graders come in
and we're giving them a bit moreserious talk, you know, and
they have, and then maybe 60, 70percent have phones, but they
all have social media.
That's the interesting thing,even the littles.

(08:47):
They're all playing Roblox orMinecraft.
They're playing with otherpeople, they're playing with
another human being, and that issocial media.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
It is.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
So that's kind of what's happening, and parents
are just overwhelmed, as parentsare, and and then the other
thing that's going on is and Idon't mean and because it's
happening so incrementally, Idon't know if people are really
kind of thinking about this, butmaybe they are now but the

(09:16):
amount of depression, anxiety,that our children are suffering
with um is a direct result ofthis technology, and parents are
giving their children phones atearly and earlier ages because
they think it's making them safe, and it's actually doing the
exact opposite.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
What do you think?
So?
There's definitely amisunderstanding there.
How do you think that theythink these phones are keeping
their children safe?
Safe from what?

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Exactly so.
There is just amisunderstanding of where their
attention, where their concern,needs to lie, and I've done some
research.
I've done reading and researchabout this because I find it
kind of to some degree kind ofperplexing but fascinating at
the same time.
So my generation of parents whoare in their 50s, whatever we

(10:04):
grew up with parents who weren'toverly engaged with us, right
Like my parents, had no ideawhere I was.
They were like my parents.
My dad was a World War II andKorean War veteran.
You know my mom was raised inthe 40s and 50s, you know.
So like they just have a verydifferent perspective on
parenting.
They were great parents andthey came to all my football

(10:27):
games Like they were very inthat way, but in terms of my
day-to-day Safety.
How was I doing in school?
Like they weren't checking mygrades.
When I went to college, theydidn't know how well I was doing
until I came home and handedthem the report card.
I mean that the mail, right.
When the report card came inthe mail, you know you'd want to
beat your parents to themailbox sometimes, but they had
no idea.
So we, and maybe we'reovercompensating as parents

(10:51):
today because of the way ourparents raised us, so we feel
like we need to be there for ourkids.
We need to be much moreinvolved, to the point where
it's like a bit ofover-involvement.
Now we have, you know, thehelicopter parent and we have
the bulldozer parent, but also,I think we also grew up in a

(11:11):
24-hour news cycle and you havein 2002, there was a rash of
child abductions in the UnitedStates that were well publicized
and at that time, like, myfirst child was like one or two
right.
So you as a parent, that'shorrifying the idea of someone

(11:35):
taking your child, and so yousee these things and you're
thinking, oh well, this couldreally happen to my kid.
Like Samantha Runyon was herein Orange County out of Garden
Grove, who I know, her mom,who's a wonderful woman who's an
advocate for child safety.
But if a parent is concernedabout their child being taken by
a stranger, the chances of yourchild being abducted by a

(11:56):
stranger mostly children areabducted by a parent, usually
custodial abductions.
There's a couple hundred a year, less than a hundred, like 80
or 90, maybe a year of of ofadductions by strangers.
So, yes, for those 80 or 90families, of course, in the vast
majority of them, almost 90%come back within a few hours,
safe.
But if you're that family,that's your, that's your world,

(12:20):
that's your life, right, you?
You're like Aaron Runyon, likethat changed her in that
community.
But if you're a parent andyou're worried about your child
being abducted by a stranger andyou're giving them a phone
because you think this is goingto keep them safe, well, it's
like .0006% of children, or like1 in 3.8 million, are going to

(12:44):
be abducted by a stranger.
But 20% of teens are thinkingabout suicide on a regular basis
.
Yes, we have thousands ofchildren who are attempting
suicide every year.
The amount of children who aresuffering from depression
between 2010 and today, thatpercentage is up like 160% for

(13:06):
girls and like 150% for girls162, something like that percent
for boys.
So if you were to have a graphlike the line for the objections
would be just a little sliver.
And then you have this big barover here which would be suicide
, depression, self-harm.
Girls, children, girls who areum go to the er for non-suicidal

(13:27):
self-injury uh, since 2010 isup 300, so, okay, so I
understand the fear.
It's just not reasonable.
Uh, your child involved in aschool shooting?
Now we just we just had onetoday in Georgia, which is
heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Today.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
Today, yeah, this morning.
Oh, no, sorry, yesterday.
I beg your pardon, it wasyesterday.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, four people were killed and dozens were
injured, and so again, for thatcommunity, everything's changed.
But if you look in the last 20years of school shootings, how
many people have been injured?
Like less than 300.
So we have like 70 millionchildren in the United States.
Less than 300 were injured in aschool shooting.

(14:14):
So the chance of your childbeing injured in a school
shooting is very low.
Right, it's actually a lot lessthan being abducted by a
stranger and if you're givingthem a phone because you want
them to be able to call you ifthey're in a school shooting,
well, I can tell you because Iteach how to deal with school
shootings.
I teach people how to do threatassessments.
So I realize this is a realthreat and I take it seriously.

(14:35):
Your child should not be ontheir phone.
Their phones need to be turnedoff and they need to be looking
at their teacher and listeningfor instruction if they're in a
lockdown.
So I've surveyed tens ofthousands of parents over the
last more than a dozen years andthese are the kind of things
I'm hearing.
But then I ask parents do youknow a family that has a kid

(15:01):
who's not suffering from anxiety, depression?
Do you even know a family Likeit's hard and maybe if you don't
know it's because you haven'ttalked to the parent and they
tell you the inside story, likeyeah, my kid actually on the
outside looks like they got ittogether, but really they
struggle.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
I don't know a single family like that.
I don't.
I don't either.
I don't know a parent thatdoesn't have that anxiety either
.
Everyone is.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
I think everybody's struggling to some degree.
Yes, but our kids?
If you look at what it lookedlike prior to 2010, leading up
to 2010, it was very stable.
The amount of children who aresaying that they're anxious or
depressed, it didn't change awhole lot.
It was kind of flat.
And then 2010, it does this.

(15:44):
So there's and the good news,however, is that, like we can
turn this around.
It's just going to requireparents to think very
differently about this.
It makes them very differentdecisions, and I make it when I
have parents sitting in mypresentation.
I put it on them.
I'm like this is what's goingon.

(16:05):
These are decisions you need tochange or make, and sometimes
you have parents who kind ofcross their arms and they're
just like I can't do that.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Well, here's the issue the danger is in the home
now.
Yeah, you know, when you'retalking about the later years,
it was outside, it wasn'treachable, it wasn't like
nothing like that.
Now it's in your home, sothere's something to be really,
you know, worried about there,that you know these phones are

(16:34):
such a danger now.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, like these apps are a danger, Right?
Well, you and I were kids andwe came home and the door and
clothes locked behind us andyou're in for the night.
Your parents are like wesurvived another one.
They can stop thinking about it, because the world was like,
literally locked outside.
That barrier of your wall keptit from happening, but that
barrier is gone.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
It is gone, and the bedrooms.
Now it's a bedroom.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
I had a kiddo middle schooler sitting next to mom
inches away on the couch ontheir phone being groomed by a
predator, like happening rightthere.
And this is a.
This is a family.
That was my most idyllic, youknow scenario you can come up
with, like mom and dad in thehome, you know, uh,

(17:19):
socionomically, you know,well-off family.
They had all the advantages,they had all you know, all the
things that you could want goingto church every day, kids in
church group, whatever and thiskid gets manipulated into a
relationship with an onlineperson, which included him
sending nude images, and so thiswas going on, and it wasn't

(17:41):
until the kid just all thebehavior started coming to the
surface and they realized, oh,we have a problem here, and they
started digging.
So it can happen in any family,it doesn't?

Speaker 2 (17:51):
matter Exactly Now.
Here's my question how didthese predators attack the kids?
Where do they find them?
What platform specifically?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Okay.
So whenever parents ask me,clay, what's the most dangerous
app for kids to be on, theanswer is always the same.
However, the apps change andthe answer is the app that all
the kids are on.
So anytime you have a placewhere kids are hanging out,
you're going to have predators.
So TikTok is super popular withpredators Gaming platforms.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Like Discord and all those and Discord, yeah,
actually, I have a lot ofparents calling about Discord.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
So, as far as Discord goes, I recommend parents do
not let their children haveDiscord that's for people 18 and
over Just based on strangerinteraction and the adult
material that you have access tothere.
If you want your child exposedto pornography okay, which can
be found just about everywhereon the internet, but what about

(18:48):
your child being exposed toreally hateful, racist, just
nasty, caustic language andbehavior?
You're going to find it onDiscord and gaming sites, so
it's not even difficult really.
You have a kid who's needy.
Basically, all children arelooking for two things.

(19:08):
They're looking for love andacceptance, right?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
That's interesting.
I guess all human beings areright yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
But kids are really needy and so they'll even put it
out there, like I just needsomeone to care about me.
I mean not so many words, that'swhat they're saying and whether
it's the image that they'reproducing and putting out there.
They're looking for validation,and so the predators just swoop
in and fill that need.
And so you have a kid who'sperforming on TikTok, let's say,
and it's probably on a publicplatform.

(19:36):
They're not private becausethey want lots of likes and
views, so they're going to getexposed to strangers.
And so the predator sees thiskid, comes in just as a follower
and says wow, you're reallytalented and beautiful, I love
what you did here, you knowwhatever.
So this goes on for a littlewhile, not very long, and now
that follower is now a friend,right?

(19:57):
The kid's like this personlikes me, they're really nice to
me, and then finally they'remore than a friend.
And then that predator willmanipulate that child by putting
them in more privateconversation situations, whether
it's the private chat, orthey're like hey, download
Telegram, which is a messagingapp that has end-to-end

(20:20):
encryption.
Let's talk there, because thatpredator knows that law
enforcement can't get thatinformation if it's encrypted on
that platform.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
On Telegram.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
You can't write a search warrant to get you can.
You'll just get a bunch ofgobbledygook.
It'll be completely scrambled,so yeah, so that's where it's at
, or on Snapchat.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Snapchat's really popular, especially with older
teens, so the deleted messagesand all of that popular,
especially with older teens.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
So the deleted messages and all of that which
don't go away, snapchat doeshang on to them.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Good to know.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, it's a little search warrant, we just pull it
all down.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (20:50):
Yeah, a lot of kids don't know that.
When I tell high schoolersespecially, I'm like, hey,
whatever you sent on Snapchatand it disappeared off the other
person's phone.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Snapchat has it.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
And they own this.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So does TikTok right yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
And you see some kids' heads looking around.
They're like what?

Speaker 2 (21:07):
That's good.
That's good for the parents toknow.

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Yeah, Unfortunately you won't know until the search
warrant right, it's a littlelate at that point.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
If you want to know what's going on.
I mean, there are things youcan do as a parent.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Now, as far as Snapchat goes, I tell parents
your child should not haveSnapchat until they're in
college.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
So what is the proper age for parents to give the
phone to their kids?
What do you think Okay?
So I don't think childrenshould have a phone any earlier
than middle school like seventhand eighth grade and that phone
should not be a smartphone, itshould be a phone.
That phone should not be asmartphone.
It should be a phone that hasno internet or app capability.
So, whether it's a flip phoneor something like that, a
smartphone should not land inyour child's pocket until high

(21:54):
school.
Now a lot of parents would belike, okay, that sounds pretty
reasonable to me.
Then I say your child shouldn'thave social media until they're
16.
And that's when you have someparents pushing back and they're
like wait a minute, how do I dothat?

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yes, teach Guide us.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
When my kid goes to school and every other kid has
it, what do I do?
I'm like, yeah, there's lots ofsocial pressure for sure.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
There is.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
So this is what I'm talking about in terms of
thinking differently about this.
So, when we look at the dataand we look at the kids who
suffer, when the iPhone came outat 2010 to 2014 period,
everybody got the phone at thesame time.
It wasn't just the kids inmiddle school, right, the older
cohort, the millennials, who gotit, who were basically in their

(22:43):
20s at that point.
Their mental health didn'tchange a whole lot.
And actually when you strikethis for age the older cohorts
you get the brackets, you go upfor age less and less change in
mental health.
And actually, the people intheir 50s my age, actually our
mental health, our anxiety, hasactually gotten a little better.
Actually, somehow we'veimproved, actually, somehow
we've improved, but anyway.

(23:04):
But the point is, is that whywas it so hard on these younger,
the teens and the preteens?
It's because I think, to somedegree, their brain development,
their adolescence, the puberty,all the things happening right
there, and so I'm kind of saying16 actually is to some degree
like a compromise, like I kindof feel like it should even be

(23:26):
later, but at least 16, you know, you cross some of those, some
of those that bridge, you know,from preteen to teen.
You know puberty and so forth,and I think 16 is not a bad
place to start.
So what we need is all parents,kind of collectively, get

(23:49):
together and say we are going towait until 16 for social media.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
I'd say 18.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
I would love 18.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
You know I'd have to argue because, look, that stage
is the identity versus roleconfusion stage.
Who am I?
Why am I here?
Then you give them a phone atlike 15, 16.
Then there's like skinny girls,muscular guys, all these, like
you know, as I was watching apodcast where she was talking
about, like you know, at ourdays we'd have to actually drive
to the mall.
Now the mall's in your phone,it's just constantly swipe by,

(24:18):
this swipe by.
So there's a lot that causes alot of psychological damage.
So I'd love that too, but Iknow it's just not possible now.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
I tell parents no child is unaffected.
Any child online is going to beaffected.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
And some kids… get obliterated.
Some kids are horriblyvictimized.
Some kids, their mental healthis just collapsed because of it.
Some of the kids are moreresilient than others, but no
one's unaffected.
And, yes, I think the longeryou go the better, but then what

(24:57):
I would say is the better.
But then what I would say isyou know, as a parent, you also
need a balance.
So when you say yes at 16, let'ssay at the early stage for
social media, then you also needto have limits right and you
should have a kid who's you knowexpressing themselves in other
ways in the real world, whetherit's music, drama, sports, some

(25:21):
other outlets that are like reallife outlets, not digital
outlets.
And if we can do that then Ithink we can kind of minimize
some of the issues.
But I agree with you 1 millionpercent.
It's just.
It's like.
But again, parents are givingchildren phones at earlier and

(25:42):
earlier and earlier ages and ontop of the mental health crisis
that we're in which I feel likeI guess at some point parents
are going to can't not payattention to this.
Like it's going to get so badthat every school is going to
have a kid attempting suicide,and when that happens, people
tend to have a kid attemptingsuicide.
And when that happens, peopletend to like kind of pay

(26:02):
attention.
Like if I go speak at a schoolright after something like this
happens, the room is packed,just wall to wall, people
standing in the back, like everyparent is like okay, we need to
hear this message, but ifthere's nothing going on in that
school, then I get like 1% ofthe school's parents show up or
2%, so at some point it's goingto be something they can't

(26:27):
ignore anymore, and then I'mafraid, every parent is going to
be struggling with this.
And so why wait?
Let's not wait, it's bad enough.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, I just wanted to add to that here's.
Here's my, because you know, asas a therapist, I always try to
like kind of like process ofwhat's happening in the world
and the changes.
I'm 40 okay, during my yearsthere was never a need for that
much dopamine.
Okay, like, I feel like thisthese apps and the, the selfies

(26:59):
and the Instagram and all thesesocial platforms, they're
digital dopamine.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Absolutely, and gaming.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
And gaming.
Yeah, there's just somethingabout children wanting just
constant gratification constant.
I want to feel good, I want tofeel special.
I never had the need for thatgrowing up, and I know that the
relatives and the friends that Ihad around my age neither did
they.
So I want to know what happenedthat there's just this need to

(27:28):
constantly feel good all thetime.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Yeah, so this is interesting.
So I think part of its cultureand part of it is biochemistry,
right.
So you know that when you havethings that are dumping dopamine
in your brain, like largeamounts of dopamine, your brain
turns down the volume, right.
It down-regulates the receptors, kind of dry up, and so you
need more and more dopamine toget that feeling.

(27:51):
So you have a kid who's gaming,let's say, and they get a lot
of dopamine from gaming, andthen you're like, hey, I need
you to get off your game and gooutside and touch the grass,
right, I need you to go.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
I love that explanation though.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Get on a bicycle ride around the neighborhood three
times, like whatever you'retelling them to do.
So when they get off they'reoutside doing those and actually
they're getting the appropriateamount of dopamine.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
They are.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
But their brain's not taking it up right.
So then they got to go back andhave these experiences online
to get the same dopamine.
The other problem is, I feellike our culture feels like
negative emotions are bad.
So shame, guilt, fear thenegative emotions.

(28:37):
They come from the amygdala, soyou should never experience
this.
This is what our culture issaying.
This is bad for you.
Well, unfortunately I meanfortunately you should actually
that's right.
It's not a bug, it's a feature,right, the reason that you're
feeling shame?
There's a reason why you feelthat.
There's a reason why you'refeeling anxious because you've

(28:57):
put off studying for your testand now it's getting close and
now you're feeling anxious.
Listen to those feelings andregulate your feelings.
Deal with them.
Instead, our kids are picking upphones and doom scrolling on
their phones or playing a gameand those things, through brain
scans, we know it basicallyshuts down that area of the
brain.
So, just like for a lot ofpeople, you say why do you game?

(29:17):
And one of the especially foradults, one of the number one
answers you're going to getbecause they're better at
articulating.
But I think it's the same forkids.
I do it to decompress, to winddown.
It makes me feel good.
Yeah, because it's deadeningthe amygdala.
It's the stress and things thatyou have from work kind of go
away while you're gaming, and soit feels.
It's soothing, just like goingto the bar after work, right,

(29:40):
drinking some alcohol.
It does that too.
Our kids are doing this inearly and early ages, when your
little baby is crying in thestroller.
How many times have you seen akid in a stroller cruise by
holding an iPad?

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh, so many.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
All the time In restaurants Right in restaurants
, mom and dad have a great meal.
Yeah, a great meal, yeah, agreat combo, right.
But this child is neverlearning to deal with their
feelings and these emotions,especially the negative emotions
.
So now they're being raisedthis way, they become a teenager
, emotions are getting reallyintense, right, and so they need
the release of the technologyto cope.

(30:16):
And then, yeah, it's, it's acombination of these things and,
uh, in my presentation to my,to the parents, um, I say, you
know, um, I go raise your handif, uh, if you ever had to walk
up to a person and ask them outon a date, face to face, like

(30:38):
walk up, saying will you go tothe dance with me, like when
you're in middle school or highschool, and everyone raises
their hands.
And you can see some people thatare like, oh, you know, they're
kind of like already going backin their mind about this and
I'm like you had to get up thegumption.
You had to think how am I goingto do this?
You had to deal with theanxiety, rejection and the

(31:03):
social outcasts that you mightbe no, but you have to deal with
all the things.
And then if you didn't work outwhich of course it didn't all
the time you had to try again,you have to deal with the scary
emotions.
That's goes back to what you'resaying yeah, so our kids don't
have to do that.
Everything's happening online,so they're doing things without
the risk of fear of loss of theconsequences.
And then I also ask parents.

(31:24):
I'm like I go think aboutgrowing up, okay, so if the
average kid is online, I thinkit's like I think it's up like
six or eight, it's like seven oreight hours a day, right?
My goodness, online I go.
That doesn't leave you with awhole lot of the time, does it?
I mean, think about it.
If you're not a, if you're notsleeping, how many, how many
hours a day do you havediscretionary time to do
whatever you want to do, right?

(31:44):
And especially if you're achild, you have so many hours at
school.
I go, imagine, I go, I want you.
For a moment.
Just think about all theamazing experiences you had
growing up.
Like, just just kind of go backin your mind.
Think about especially thethings where you're like, man,
we probably shouldn't have donethat.
Somehow we, somehow we survived.
I and those are.
Those are with friends.
Those are with friends.
Yeah, I go and and and or,asking someone on a date or

(32:08):
whatever, and I go, think about,if I took away 75 of that, who
would you be now?
Any parents?
The parents are sitting therelike yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
What do you have?
What do you?

Speaker 1 (32:20):
have left.
That's your kid.
Your kid is living 25% of thetime that you had to spend with
friends.
Now you have friends.
They say I have lots of friends.
These are friends online.
These aren't real relationships.
And also we ask collegestudents about loneliness.
Asked college students aboutloneliness.

(32:44):
I think the number of collegestudents who say they feel
lonely most of the time or allthe time, I think that's gone up
more than 60% in the last 10years, so they're more lonely.
They have fewer real friends,close connections.
They have lots of friendsonline.
That really don't amount to awhole lot.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Dating is difficult too.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Dating is difficult and the thing is your middle
schooler doesn't have a job inbuying their phone.
You're doing it.
You're buying them a phone, soyou have the control over this.
It's not a necessity.
Your child will actually maybesad because they don't have a

(33:17):
phone when everybody else has aphone, but they won't be as sad
as a child.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Who's?
Struggling with anxiety anddepression.
That's right.
I'll take that sadness overthat other yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
That's a disappointment.
That's not true.
Sadness True.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
Very true.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
And so, yeah, so my book Parenting the Digital World
.
I kind of walk parents throughall this, my presentation to
parents.
We do at schools walk themthrough this.
But I might even also mentionif, when you give your child a
phone and you want to kind ofregulate the amount of time that
they're on there, your child'sdevice and everything happened

(33:51):
on it belongs to you.
It's not your child's, it'syours.
Your child's expectation ofprivacy should be zero if you
want it to be.
It should be If you want themto be yours.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yes, your child.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
You have the legal and moral right to know exactly
what's happening on that phoneand like, would you let your kid
hang out with people that youdidn't know?
Like really would you?
I don't think so.
I think you'd want to know andyour kid is hanging out with
people all the time online thatyou do not know.
You wouldn't normally ever letthis happen.
It's just not in your face.

(34:24):
So I put an app on my boys'phones to kind of monitor what
was going on, to help shut downthe screens when I needed it to
and also alert me when there's aproblem.
So they're not expensive.
It's like the cost of goingstarbucks once a month.

(34:44):
Uh, it really helps you.
The one that I think is thebest and it works really well on
the iphone it's called our pacto-u-r-p-a-c-t.
They're down in san diego.
They're a great company.
They, all they.
They built this company.
The, the ceo, is a parent andhe built and he really built it
for his daughter to help hisdaughter with her screen time.
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
The desperation of parents.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Like seriously, look at it.
Like now we're all trying tofigure out apps, we're engineers
.
All of a sudden, you know, it'slike we're all these like
scientist engineers trying todevelop all these ways to keep
these freaks away from our kids.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, and we're doing it to ourselves.
Yeah, we're doing it toourselves.
So, yeah, like most parents,when you try to crack the
parental control code of yourchild's device, you just after
like 10 minutes you're like Ican't do this, I'm not a
software engineer, and so andthat was like one of the main
things why I wrote my book wasto help parents kind of walk
them through that.
If you go to my website atcybersafetycopcom, we have this

(35:45):
thing called the Cyber SafetyWizard and it's like an app on
the website.
You put in all your kids'devices, it runs you through
like a Q&A and then it spits outall the parental controls like
step-by-step how to do it.
So it's super helpful.
I just want to make this asturnkey as possible for parents.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Because I'm a parent, I understand we're exhausted.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Oh, it's a shit show out there.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yes, it is.
I mean, really, you're takingyour kid to their softball thing
and you have the kid going tosoccer and, like you're
high-fiving your spouse andyou're, you know, divide and
conquering and at the same timeworking full-time and all the
things.
So this is just one more thingthat parents have to worry about
.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
And now it's become such a worry that we can't
ignore it actually Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
And also I feel like parents are afraid of parenting.
Now, too, there's that piece.
We're afraid to take backcontrol, and I mean we, because
we're all parents.
I want to be very inclusive inthis, but, yeah, we're very
scared of giving consequences,rules, regulations, because kids
are very defiant nowadays.
They fight back versus before.

(36:54):
I'm sure if your dad looked atyou in the eye, you'd just stand
there freezing like uh-oh hemeant business the side eye.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
That's all we needed, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
You know, he meant business.
Yeah, and so did I.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
But now, if I look at my son that way, he's going to
be like well, mom, are you?
Okay, you know, it's a littledifferent.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
It is different and before we started, I was telling
you about this book that I'mworking on, which is my
experiences as a crisisnegotiator and how to talk to
people and generate voluntarycompliance.
It's called GVC, military andlaw enforcement.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
Walk us through that process.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
So you want a kid who listens to you and, but more
than that, like, believes inwhat you're telling them.
You want to.
Basically, you're trying torecruit your kid to your point
of view, and that's kind of hardto do, right it?

Speaker 2 (37:51):
is.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
So it's a leadership role that.
It is.
You're kind of a mentor, kindof a leader in this situation,
the're you know theauthoritative method that our
parents might've used.
Like, if you don't do this orelse isn't going to work here,
like, especially, like talk,like talking to your kid about
drugs, it's the same thing.
Your, your, your kid is notgoing to be with you 24 seven.
And so in that moment that theyget someone who says, or have

(38:14):
someone that says, you know,would you like to try X, y or Z
drug, your child needs to knowwhat to do in that situation and
you have to prepare them forthat If you want.
If you're telling your kid whois getting dopamine stimulation
off of gaming, who is helping it, they're using it to regulate
their emotions.
It's addictive and it makesthem feel good, right, which is

(38:37):
why people are addicted toanything because it feels good.
And you're asking them to doless of that, like that's a
tough sell, right?
You're telling them, hey, I'mtelling you, but they're like
what it feels good to me now?
Like, why are you telling me?

Speaker 2 (38:49):
this.
At that point, it's anaddiction, right, yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
But like To some degree.
You don't realize that it's aproblem until you problems right
.
So like if you, if you are anadult and there's adults that do
this, who game, let's say, or,or drink alcohol, whatever it is
, and and that behavior becomesso problematic that it
interferes with their ability tofunction well in their job, in
their relationships, and thosethings start falling apart.

(39:12):
Right, you lose your job, youget kicked out of your apartment
, whatever, sleep in your car,your wife or boyfriend leaves
you or whatever, and then sothat you have the addiction, and
then you have fun, right,that's why you're doing it,
right, the thing and the fun.
But then you get problems andif those problems get so big, it
kind of overwhelms the fun part.

(39:34):
And then eventually you gethelp.
Right, you hit rock bottom.
But what's happening now isparents are coming in and taking
away the problems.
Right, if your kid's struggling, they're not doing well in
school, you're doing theirhomework for them, right, you're
doing whatever you need to doto get them through and they're
never having the opportunity tokind of face their consequences

(39:56):
and therefore you end up havinga 30-year-old who's living with
you.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Adult, infant.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Adult infant and you're in this boat, so what we
need to do is get a kid to, andsometimes they don't want to,
but you got to get them to comearound to your side of this.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
How do we do that?

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Okay.
So first it's so communication.
So when we're in crisisnegotiation, put me on a phone
with a guy barricaded inside ofa building and he's maybe
suicidal or whatever the casemay be, and the first thing I do
is I'm aiming to understand.
I want to understand what'sgoing on with that person.
How do they feel?
Why are we here today?

(40:37):
Why are you in this situation?
Tell me what's going on.
I make zero judgments.
I use techniques likereflecting back on them If he
says you know.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Mirroring.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Mirroring.
Yeah, I lost my job today and Ifeel horrible.
Wow, you lost your job todayand you feel horrible.
I mean, that must be reallyhard.
So just doing things like that.
So I'm building rapport withthem and then eventually, you
know, maybe I'm openingopen-ended questions.
You know, why do you likegaming so much?
Like, tell me when you're in it.

(41:08):
Oh, I love it because I'mplaying with my friends.
Oh, so sounds like playing withyour friends is really great.
Yeah, it is really great.
I'm like okay, so we're havinga conversation about it.
So you're reducingdefensiveness.
And the kid's feeling like oh,my parent understands me
interested in what I want, andespecially if you start talking
about something that kid loves,they're going to tell you stuff,

(41:29):
right.
They're going to really let youknow why they're doing it,
what's going on, maybe ask them.
So what are some of thechallenges?
Do you feel you have a kidwho's gaming, not waking up time
, not getting to school prepared, maybe not doing well in school
, and you say you know, um, Isee you, uh, you know, I hear
you, I see that you're not doingwell in school.

(41:51):
Could that have anything to dowith the gaming?
No, it's fine, it's not a bigdeal, okay.
Well, um, what if?
What if we experiment a littlebit?
So you're, you're gaming untillike 9 pm, but in your mind
you're thinking I like this kidto stop gaming at like seven,

(42:14):
right, what if we?
What if we?
Uh, how do you end it?
Finish gaming at like 8.30?
Right, just a half hour earlier.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, it's not too much push.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, it's like 25% of what you want.
I mean, what do you like?
Do you think that mightactually help you be more rested
, more prepared?
Well, maybe.
Well, how about we just try fora week?
How about we try for a week andjust see, and then we'll make
some choices?
I'm not here to take this allaway from you, but I think maybe
we could do this and it mightbe more helpful for you.

(42:45):
And so the kid's like okay,I'll try that.
So the what if?
The open-ended questions.
So there's a bunch of techniques, that kind of rhetorical
techniques that we use.
How do we know if this works?
This is the one I use all thetime with my boys.
So I would say, hey, I go, Ineed so in this scenario, Like,

(43:08):
okay, so I need you, you're notgetting up on time.
There's a big fight in themorning.
We leave upset and emotional toschool.
Your first period teacher saysyou're not, you're sleepy,
you're not doing well, whatever,you're not doing all these
exams.
We need to go to bed earlier orgame earlier.
So we're going to say 8.30.
Or let's say your kid's likeyeah, 8.30, let's try 8.

(43:29):
Let's try 8.
Okay, if you go to bed at 8 andyou're thinking I'd really like
it to be 7,.
Or I mean, stop gaming at 8,but really 7,.
Or maybe say we don't wantgaming at all on a school night.
It depends on whatever it mightbe.
But you ask your kid, you'retelling me you have a plan.
What's your plan?
All right, dad, I'll stopgaming at 8.
I'll get to bed at 9, and I'llmake sure my homework's done

(43:52):
before I get excited, like maybethere's a plan.
Okay, how will we know if thatworks?
You tell me, how will we knowif that works?
And the kid's like, okay, it'llwork.
If I get up in the morningwithout you having to wake me up
, I go to school.
There's no argument.
I go to school, I'm ready, I'mstanding by the door, get in the
car to go to school on time andI'm and the teachers and you

(44:16):
can hit, I'll have the email,the teacher email you next week
and tell you like how I'm doing.
Okay.
So, okay, that soundsreasonable.
If you can do all those things,we know if it's working.
If you can't do those things,then do you think we need to
kind of maybe push it back alittle more, like maybe go a
little bit earlier.
Yeah, I think that's fair.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Yeah, so they work with you.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
They work with you.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Kids are very reasonable too with you.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
They work with you.
Kids are very reasonable too.
I just think they have to feelsafe.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
Yeah, you make them feel they have some ownership.
Yeah, exactly, they have say insomething right.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
And if it doesn't work out, they know why.
They actually help build theparameters of this, and so, on a
parent's side, this should be100% unemotional.
That's a problem.
It's our as a parent.
Your emotional regulation isreally important.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Your own anxiousness probably gets the best of you.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
But there's a lot.
So, as I was kind of writingthese things down, I was like in
50, 60, 70, 80, 90 pages andI'm like I guess this is another
book.
I'm looking forward to puttingthat in the hands of parents.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, I can't wait to read it as well.
I have a question Do you feelthat it's harder to kind of make
that plan, as you wereexplaining, with teenagers
versus little ones?
Because I always believe inconnecting before correcting,
and this is something that wewere taught in school therapy

(45:45):
school.
What do you think that nowadaysparents are doing that I feel
like there's just not enoughconnection with kids anymore
versus our time, and it's kindof harder to help a kid, help
your child, when there's noemotional connection there,
because there's always thisbattle for leadership right, and
it is.
It's a battle for I'm theleader, you listen to me, this
is my home and that stuffdoesn't really work anymore.
Do you believe that connectingwith your kids is important?

Speaker 1 (46:09):
It's the most important thing.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
It's the most important thing.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yeah, everything we do at Cyber Safety Cop.
If something happens andthere's some new scam or there's
something going on and we'relike, okay, here's an article
about this.
The article is here's theproblem how to talk to your kid
about it.
So what we're most interestedin is building that bridge

(46:33):
between a parent and her kid,and a lot of times again, we're
so busy and overwhelmed thatit's to be intentional about
that.
It takes time, like what Idescribed to you, like talking
to your kid about their screentime like that doesn't happen in
one conversation.
That takes.
It could take weeks to reallykind of yeah, I could see that.
To break that down, yeah, andwe're just like anxious.

(46:54):
We're like I just want to fixnow.
I want to fix now and I'll justtell my kid what to do, or I'll
just do it for my kid, I'lljust fix it or just suffer
through it and never reallyaddress like the root problems.
But yeah, so if you really wantto understand your kid and
what's going on with them, likeyou have to be a good listener.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
And that requires you to slow down and do it right.
Yeah, I think that the way wewere parented does not really
work anymore.
No, it's so sad Like we have tochange our style.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
I had great parents.
I really can't imagine, youknow, having different parents
who are great, but it was like,and my dad grew up like he was
born in the 20s and I was thelast of four.
He was like 49 when I was born,so he's a bit older, but I
remember like his firstconversation with me about sex
was I was almost graduating highschool.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
We're just drive.
I was driving him somewhere andhe's like Clay, do you want to
talk?

Speaker 2 (48:06):
about sex.
I'm like what do you want toknow, dad, what do you want to
know?
So I mean, that was just how itwas.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yeah, it's scary now to talk about those things with
your kids.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Online pornography, all the things that are
difficult to talk about theinternet makes you have to talk
about it.
Yeah, and I think that that'sone of the most scariest pieces
of life nowadays that we have toexpose our kids to these types
of conversations at such anearly age, like I'm talking
about 7, 8.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah, earlier than you think you need to Very
earlier.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Yeah, and one question that I have is about
these predators, thesepedophiles Like how do they get
a hold of our kids?
Like what apps specifically?
Like what are we doing wrong?
Because I mean it's justeverywhere.
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
So don't let your kid be on social media, these apps,
before they're 16.
But if you have a little guywho's playing Roblox, right,
like when I talked to my K-3group this morning third grade I
said you know who likes to playRoblox?
And the whole place just wentnuts.
Like every one of those kidsare on Roblox and I say raise
your hand if you play.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Roblox, how old are these kids?

Speaker 1 (49:03):
K through three, k through third grade so they're
little.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Oh my goodness, they're very little, very little
.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Minecraft, Roblox, and I ask raise your hand.
If you play Roblox and almostevery hand goes up.
So on these servers and they'replaying with other people.
I had a kiddo who was eight.
His dad called me.
Dad came to my presentation andin the presentation I say if
your child is on gaming orsocial media, you need to turn
on the pronoun control,especially gaming.
So for littles you know thediscussion with littles is

(49:37):
different.
Obviously with teens, Like youdon't need so much.
You're not trying to get themto comply, You're basically
creating these boundaries forthem.
So you're just like, hey, I'mturning off the voice chat, I'm
turning off this, this and this,and they really don't have a
say.
Like you're not really tryingto.
It's not a back and forthconversation with the littles,

(50:02):
so you're throwing up theguardrails for for them.
So I tell him like, hey, I go,your kid could be on Roblox
talking to a complete strangerunless you turn on the parental
controls.
So this dad goes home and hiskid played it on his iPad.
He's playing Roblox on his iPad.
He pulls up his kid's Roblox,he looks up the chat log and he
sees that his eight-year-old boyhas been talking to someone on
there who's saying he's alsoeight years old but talked about
explicit sex.
Stop Explicit.
And this person's coaching hiseight-year-old, to use the words

(50:26):
right.
This is grooming.
So this dad calls me up and hegoes I was at your talk last
night and this is what happened.
He tells me the story and ashe's telling me the story, he
starts breaking down and cryingover the phone and, as a dad
like I, have a hard time talkingabout it.
It makes me emotional.
But he feels like he completelyfailed his child.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
And I'm like you're in good company, man I go.
You're not a bad parent, youjust didn't know, right.
So if your child is on thesegames, you have to turn on the
parental controls.
Yeah, your child is talking tocomplete strangers.
These predators know, and sothey're in those places.
It's everywhere.
It's not just.
It's not just it's obviouslyhappening in snapchat and things

(51:11):
like that, but it's alsohappening places you may not be
thinking.
If your child can communicatewith another human being, you
need to wrap your brain aroundthat app, whatever it is, and
understand how it works.
Read the parent guides.
I have them on my website.
Go to commonsensemediaorg.
Read those parental controlsguides and turn them on.
Yes, it's going to require alittle legwork on your part, but

(51:34):
don't say yes to it.
Don't say yes to a game or anapp without you fully
understanding what you'regetting your kid into.
I've just had, I've had myheart broken by these parents,
I'm sure with every a lot.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
I mean, what is the most gruesome thing that you've
kind of witnessed from parentsand child perspective?
What have you seen?
That's kind of shooken yourworld.
So that many.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
I don't know, shooken your world so that many I don't
know.
Like, actually, the worst thingthat I've dealt with is when a
parent is abusing their ownchild.
Oh yeah, so we have childrenwho are in teens and actually
even older.
Um, meeting someone, like onsnapchat right, and this person
says, um, uh, you're super cute,whatever, and so they and

(52:26):
usually it's happening to ourboys they send them a nude image
usually happening to boys yeah,this is more commonly.
This is like the biggest scamgoing on right now, mostly
happening to boys and um, andthey send a nude image and
they're like if you want morepictures of me, send me a
picture of you.
And so these boys are have nocompunction about taking an
image of their privates andsending it to a complete

(52:47):
stranger and then immediatelygetting a message saying if you
don't want everybody to see this, send me $500.
Oh my gosh, and this is comingout of like, typically like the
Ivory Coast, west Africa, thePhilippines, all over the place
Usually and very infrequentlyhappening in the United States,
because we can actually trackthose people down and arrest
them, but if it's happening inanother country, there's not a

(53:09):
lot that can be done.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
So Text messages too.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, sure, so they, you
know.
But the thing is, once they'retheir friend on Instagram or
Snapchat, then the threat isintense because they're like,
I'm going to DM all your friendsthis image of you holding your
business and or a video of you,and parents don't understand,
like, how intense this threat isbecause and how they shame your

(53:38):
kid, because what they say is,if I send this image out of you,
your parents are going to seeit and they're going to see how
dirty person you are.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
There goes the suicidal ideation.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
All your friends are going to leave you.
They're going to laugh at you.
They're going to think you'regross and sick and I'm going to
destroy your life.
And if you don't do it, youmight as well.
Just if you don't give me themoney, you destroy your life.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
And if you don't do it, if you don't give me the
money, you might as well justkill yourself, my God.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
So parents don't understand, like, how brutal
that threat is to a kid and youmight think, as a kid, the only
way out of this is taking my ownlife.
So that's one of the thingsthat I'm really most I'm really
concerned about right now isthat and it's happening
everywhere.
All the time it's superunderreported.
I probably have a parent, maybenot once a week, but every

(54:24):
other week, calling me andsaying hey, clay, I saw you at
my kid's middle school, likethree years ago.
Now my kid's in high school andguess what happened?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
And I need help finding this person.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Yeah, my kid was in your presentation and you said
don't do it.
Right?
Actually, we don't just saydon't do it, we actually tell a
story.
And so we try to make it reallykind of relational.
Like if you just tell a kid notdo something, that's not going
to be helpful.
Like the way we talk to kids inour assemblies is very
different than what you mightimagine.
Like we really kind of makethem, we challenge them to think

(54:58):
about it, we tell them storiesand and not just simply you know
, do this, don't do this, likethat's not going to work.
But she's like you know, I toldmy kid was in her presentation.
I sat down with my kid after Icame to your talk and we talked
about it and my son looked me inthe eyes and said mom, not a
million years, not a millionyears, would I ever do this.

(55:18):
And she said mom, not in amillion years, not a million
years, would I ever do this.
And she said he did it.
She goes.
I found him in the fetalposition, crying in his room
because all he could scratchtogether was like $70 from his
high school buddies.
And this is a kid who's like6'2", 220.
He's going to play lacrosse atlike Boston University, like
he's going to get a scholarship,whatever.
And he's like he was gonna killhimself because he said mom, if

(55:43):
that image, everybody on myinstagram are players, coaches,
recruiters he goes my life'sover and so she's.
She's like what do we do?
I'm like, well, you're notgonna pay him and tell the
person I'm the parent, you'renot, my kid's not paying, go
away.
We're telling the.
We're calling the.
Not the police can do anything.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
They can't do anything no.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
If this person is in some other country, it's going
to go nowhere.
There have been cases made whenyou because what they actually
end up having you do is you getlike some prepaid card, like
visa cards or whatever, and yougive those numbers to somebody
in the United States and thenthey wire the money to the

(56:23):
person in these other countriesso that person is considered
like a mule, a money mule, sothey can prosecute those money
mules, and so we've had somesuccess in doing that, but it's
not going to be 100%.
So anyway, like I literallyjust had this happen with one of
my son's friends who's acollege student, in his 20s and

(56:44):
he did this.
So he comes over hysterical.
He's got his mom on the phoneand she's like talk to my mom.
And I'm like, hey, how's itgoing?
And she's like she tells me I'mlike all right, I got this,
I'll sit and talk to her son.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
So what did you do in that situation?
What do you do in a situationlike that?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
So the full story is my son was out with his friend.
These are they're like 21.
And his friend shows up, butnot my son, and his friend is
hysterical at the door and he'slike crying and pulling his own
hair, like he's like losing it.
And I look around.

(57:23):
I'm like I don't see my son.
So I'm thinking what happenedto my son, right?
So I actually had thisadrenaline dump in that moment
where I was like I got coldsweats and everything.
And then, as soon as he told methat he sent a nude image, like
I almost like started laughingbecause I was so like releasing
the tension.
Yeah, I bet and I'm like I justkind of I put my arms around him

(57:44):
and I said, hey, man, it'sgoing to be okay, it's going to
be okay.
I know it feels really horribleright now, it's going to be
okay.
So I guess, like that horse hasleft the barn, right, there's
nothing to be done about thatimage.
But it's really a numbers game.
If they realize you're notgoing to pay, they're going to
move on Like they may try tothreaten you a little bit more

(58:05):
and just see what they can getout of you.
But if you give them anyinclination that you might pay
something, even if it's less,they'll just stay after you.
So just say no, we're not doingit.
And then you know, your kid mayneed some therapy, right, like
your kid may need to talk tosomeone.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
It's traumatic, of course.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
And I feel like kids.
You know your kid may bestruggling with dark thoughts,
like a lot of kids are, and theydon't feel comfortable telling
mom and dad about it becausethey don't want mom and dad to
freak out.
I've talked to so many kidswho'd be like I can't tell my
mom and dad how I feel aboutthis or whatever's going on.
I'm like, well, you need totell somebody, like school
counselor.
So, as a parent, I told my boysthere's nothing you can't tell

(58:45):
me.
Your mom and I will never stoploving you.
If you come to me and you'vemade a horrible choice, I'm
going to help you.
I'm not going to judge you.
I'm not going to yell at you.
I'm giving you my promise andso if you send a nude image to

(59:06):
somebody and they are nowblackmailing you, even after
we've already talked about thisand you said you would never do
it, if it were to happen, youcan still come to me and we'll
talk about it and we'll work it.
We'll figure it out.
We'll figure it out together.
I don't want you to go throughthis by yourself.
Yeah, if there's something youcan't tell me because it's so
horrible In your mind you'rethinking I can't tell my dad

(59:26):
this, and maybe it's somethingthat you're ashamed about.
I don't know.
Whatever it is, Even though I'mtelling you you can, there's
nothing you can't tell me.
Is there somebody that is anadult that you trust that you
could do it?

Speaker 2 (59:39):
I like that.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Is there a counselor at the school?
And so they said, yeah, we havea counselor to school, or their
youth pastor or whatever.
I'm like, okay, as long asthere's somebody, I don't want
you going through this stuffalone and you can always tell me
.
But if, but yes, don't, don'thold onto this stuff, it's not
healthy.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah, also, I've noticed text messages, random
text messages, all the time.
And you know, guilty, guilty.
You know my son's 12, we gavehim a phone but no apps like, no
social media, nothing, and hegets these random text messages.

(01:00:15):
And then I took on that role.
I was just talking back therelike, yeah, they were just
talking about you know who'syour dad, who's your mom, just
it's this person.
And then my husband picked upand called that person.
Never answered the phone, butit was like a six, six something
number.
Where do they get thisinformation from?
It's these random people that Ieven get text messages like
that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
It's very scary.
They're getting it from thesame place, they're getting my
phone number because they'redoing it to me and so I just
block it.
So you can't set your kid'sphone up where basically any
number that's not in theircontacts goes into like a junk
folder.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Where do you do that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
If it's an iPhone, there is a setting under the
phone setting in the settings todo that.
So it'll basically, and I didit for a while, but then
eventually you miss a call,right yeah.
And you don't even know about it.
It just randomly, it just goesin there without even knowing.
So I I recommend, if a parentnow again, I said you know, as I
said earlier, I don't think youshould give your child, um a

(01:01:12):
smartphone, yeah, but thesmartphone does give you that
ability.
You might be able to set thatup with um through uh, I'm not
sure about like flip phones oranything like that.
You could always.
There's also other options.
So like Pinwheel makes a phonethat has all the parental stuff
built in.

(01:01:33):
You can really dial in like howyou want, who can call your kid
or whatever.
And then you have Bark alsomakes a phone.
So there are some people makingphones that are for kids.
So there are some options there.
But I would say, yeah, I woulddefinitely turn that feature on.
And today, like we were talkingto the fourth through sixth
graders and I said you knowwe're talking about who you

(01:01:56):
allow in your digital world andthe rule is you only let people
in your digital world.
You treat your digital worldlike your home.
The same rules apply.
So when someone knocks on yourdoor, you look to see who it is.
You make a very simple decisionIs this person okay to come
into my home and who are the twogroups of people Friends and
family?
So that is the same rule foryour digital world.
So if somebody wants to followyou on social media or play

(01:02:19):
games or message you, we onlylet them in if they'd be a
person you let in your home.
If it's not, it's a block.
If they'd be a person you letin your home.
If it's not, it's a block.
So if you get those textmessages and all these kids do,
don't entertain it.
You just block them and don'teven open the door Because, yeah
, what you said exactly.
They engage you, they want youto talk and then, before you

(01:02:40):
know it, yeah, you're sendingthem money.
You're sending them money.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
It's ridiculous.
As a crisis negotiator and asergeant, have you ever came
face to face with a predator?

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Yeah, more than once.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
How was that experience as a parent, as a
human being?

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Yeah, it's tough.
I had a parent.
Actually, I arrested a parentwho was abusing his daughters.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Sexually abusing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Sexually abusing his daughters, Daughters, Daughters.
Yeah so two girls at anintermediate school, so one was
sixth grade, one was eighthgrade, and the eighth grader was
kind of serially being abusedevery night by dad, oh my
goodness.
But she didn't want to tellanybody because she didn't want

(01:03:24):
him to abuse her little sister.
And then finally he startedabusing little sister and then
she decided I need to tellsomebody.
And so she came in one day andjust told me and um, and then we
worked, worked, working with um.
Our sex crimes investigatorsbrought the dad in and arrested
him, Um, so that was.
That was rough, because um momwas out of the picture and I

(01:03:48):
think they had an older sisterand I don't know.
I hope the older sister wasable to take them, because they
ended up going to foster care,oh man, and who knows what
happens after that with them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
It just destroys that family and it's destroying
those little girls, but anyway,obviously a safer place than
where they were.
But we had a guy who, on thesurface so what's interesting is
, a lot of times the people whoare doing this put themselves in
positions of trust.

(01:04:20):
A coach, I mean it really, it'sreally horrible, because you
look at your kid's coach andyou're like, oh, look at this
person who's volunteeringhelping my kid, and 99.99% of
them they're doing that Likethey're a person who loves
working with kids, they want tohelp develop your child into
being a better human being andit's awesome, right, like your

(01:04:40):
youth pastor or whatever, likethese are the people that you
should trust, should, shouldtrust, should, should trust.
But occasionally, you know, youhave somebody who kind of works
their way in and they use thosepositions of trust to exploit
children.
So this guy was a baseball coach, oh my goodness.
But online he was a very cute,like 17-year-old girl and he

(01:05:04):
would.
He friended all the boys on histeam, all the high school boys
on his team, and and he also didlike travel baseball, did all
the, all the year round stuff,so all the boys that he worked
with.
He was this girl online and hewould say hey, you know, can we
be friends online?
You're so cute.
And he basically wouldmanipulate these boys into

(01:05:26):
sending them nude images and andthen he'd, and then he'd also
victimize the boys of the otherteams that they would play.
So there were hundreds andhundreds and hundreds, maybe
thousands of victims, I don'tknow.
We had to stop looking forvictims and we hit about 250.
We literally did not haveenough investigators to go out
and talk to all the victims.
So and really what it boileddown to and it's interesting, it

(01:05:49):
took so long but finally a kidgets this message from this girl
and he takes it to mom and dadand he says this person I don't
know is asking is sending me anude image and asking for one.
And then they walk it into thepolice department and that's how
all this unravels.
But this has been going on foryears.

(01:06:09):
So think about those hundredsof boys who are getting these,
never told mom and dad.
Mom and dad had no idea whatwas going on, which is a common
denominator in most of mystories.
Parents didn't know what wasgoing on and then finally a kid
you know did finally tell aparent and that's how we were
solved.
The average predator willvictimize 200 to 300 people in

(01:06:32):
their lifetime, and actually, ifit's online, it's going to be
much higher than that.
So yeah, we you know he had awife and two kids.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
No way.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
Yeah, kids were like in middle school or elementary
school.
That's sick.
So we arrested him, put him inOrange County Jail.
His wife that night I don'tthink it was, I think it was the
night he was booked in or maybethe next night she walked in
with the divorce papers.
I think they should questionthe kids too, out of their oh
probably.
But he was a you knoweverybody's like oh, such a
great guy and you know thestories that you hear like how

(01:07:05):
could this ever happen?

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Build trust Very charming.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure yeah, by a psychopath.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Yeah, and also one thing I talked to about with
another therapist is thesebehaviors.
It could be learned behavior aswell.
You know a lot of these, youknow pedophiles, predators in
general, abuse.
They've had abuse, yeah,they've had these types of
things done to them.
So at such a young age likethis, grooming.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Yeah, somebody traumatized them, sexually
assaulted them, broke them,where it's a behavior now, now
it's yeah, so there's somethingthat is in there that's broken
and can't really well be fixed.
So one of the things I did inRegistrar's Center Margarita was
about once a year I'd go aroundand visit all the 290

(01:07:51):
registrants either sexregistrants in the city, and
most of them were older guys offprobation.
We had a couple probationers,not many, and so I would just
show up and say, hey, I'm DeputyCranford and I'm the child
safety deputy and I would havetheir file and, of course,

(01:08:11):
making sure that they'reregistered and they're living in
the place that they'reregistered at.
So that's the main thing.
And usually these guys wouldinvite me and they want to
chit-chat, which is interesting.
I don't know, they just wantsomeone to talk to them, but I
would read their story, whatthey were arrested for and
prosecuted for prior, and almostevery one of them had an excuse
, which was interesting to me.
Almost every one of them saidshe manipulated me into doing it

(01:08:38):
, like there's always some kindof excuse, so and that's.
And as a sergeant in jail wehad the sex registrants in
prospective custody there andit's always the same thing.
So it's interesting.
There's just a lack of again.
I think there's somethinginside that's broken that can't

(01:09:01):
really be fixed.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
They certainly weren't born like that.
They weren't born like that.
Something happened to them tobe that way.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
And they were raised in the same world that we were.
So many of them had thesedesires but also were dealing
with shame and guilt, rightBecause they know it's not right
.
I mean they know it's not right.
There are some who try torationalize it by saying these
children are sexual beings andso they should be able to
explore their sexuality, but formost of them, throw in

(01:09:29):
psychology.
Yeah, they think that like it'slike, but they think that a
12-year-old has that kind ofagency when they don't.
So, but most of and it's true,it's actually true with all

(01:09:52):
pornography.
So you, especially when you'reyoung, so it usually starts when
they're pretty young, but youknow it's sexual script theory,
right.
So you're building your kind ofyour template for your
sexuality in terms of, like,what is okay, what's not okay,
what's normative, what's too far, et cetera, in your role and

(01:10:13):
sexuality, et cetera.
And so if you're building thattemplate by watching pornography
child pornography so you'rebasically it just basically
chips away.
There's like a wall betweenthat person and actually
touching a child, and that's ashame, fear and guilt, right.
So that this watching it overand over again and actually the,
the, the fantasy, right thatthey're, that they're

(01:10:34):
masturbating to breaks down thatwall, just chips that wall away
until it's down here and theyjust they just step over it.
And so this is this is actuallytrue for for, for all
pornography to some degree, thatit breaks down those
inhibitions.
I have very young children andone of the things I cover in my
book that I don't think a lot ofpeople who do what I do talk
about.
Is the effect of pornography onchildren's brains?

(01:10:56):
Yes, and how they're formingtheir roles and relationships.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
It affects every relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Yes, and it makes it really difficult for them to
have a loving, caringrelationship actually, and.
But most parents look at it andthey're like, well, I don't
want to be judgmental or prude,but I'm like I'm not talking
about adults watching this, I'mtalking about children watching
it, and the fact of the matteris there are kids who are

(01:11:23):
addicted to it.
Because there are kids who areaddicted to it, and it's very
different than the pornographythat someone in my generation
may have consumed, which was amagazine.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Right, Once you look at a magazine a couple of times,
the novelty wears off.
You don't get the same dopaminerelease right the first time
you look at it, but now you havethe porn tubes like YouPorn,
pornhub, whatever.
You have thousands of videos.
You have all these categories.
Just hit refresh, yeah, and youhave all these news.
So every time it's novel, highdopamine release.

(01:11:55):
And you have kids.
And what are kids learning Like?
If you're building a script oflike, I ask parents in my
position, I say for a moment,just a like.
I want you think what would youwant your child to believe
about a healthy, lovingrelationship?

(01:12:16):
What do you want their scriptto be?
What do you want their templateto be in a loving, caring,
supportive relationship, whoeverthey're with?
I guarantee pornography is 180degrees different than that,
because what it's teaching themis that women aren't people,
that they're just're just things, and that the men and she's not
consenting.
What's happening to her?
It's things that are painful,humiliating and violent.
Yeah, and your little boy, whodoesn't know that this is a

(01:12:38):
fantasy, is watching it over andover and over again, um, and
masturbating over it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Yes, with all this dopamine release that's just
sickening, making him worse.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
So he I think it was something like of they did a
survey of middle schoolers orhigh schoolers and I think a
third of them said porn providedthem with the most useful
information about sex orrelationships.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
They think they're learning.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
It's sex ed.

Speaker 2 (01:13:06):
Yeah, they think it's sex ed for them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
So your kid and it's not like, hey, if you've got a
daughter, like, do you want herto be treated like that in a
relationship, right, and if youhave a son, you want him to
understand how to hold arelationship together.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
And so that's another piece of this that we could
have a whole other podcast aboutright.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Yes, I have a question actually, and it's a
very important question what isthe punishment for pedophiles in
the state of California?

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
What is the punishment?

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Well, the answer to all these things, or what does
it look like.
It depends.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Well, okay.
So typically the good news isthat punishment in the United
States with regards to crimesagainst children are pretty
severe, especially when youmaybe not severe enough for most
people, including me.
But if you look at likeworldwide, like in the UK and
other places, like some placeslike slap on the wrist, slap on

(01:14:11):
the wrist so, and now that wehave human trafficking
enhancements, you might have ahuman trafficking situation.
It also kind of depends so, ontop of whatever that time in
prison will be which could likeokay.
So for the guy who wouldpretend to be the girl, the
baseball coach, I think he gotnine years.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
Out of 250-something victims.
That could have been thousands.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
He pled out, pledged that and because he never
physically touched a kid, but heproduced a lot of child
pornography and he shared thisstuff with other people.
So, on top of the boysrealizing that, okay, this
happened to me, which isn'tgreat, but these images and
videos of these boys goes onforever, like until the end of

(01:14:52):
civilization, Like these they'regoing to be on people's
computers.
So yeah, I was kind ofunderwhelmed, to say the least,
about that.
But the other thing then afterthey're out they have to
register as a sex offender on orbefore their birthday for the
rest of their lives.
And while they're on probationthere's a lot of rules.
But once they're off probation,like the rules about sometimes
the rules you can't have acomputer, like it kind of

(01:15:14):
depends.
What's interesting is at themain jail in Santa Ana, where I
was a sergeant, we actually hada section of the jail for
extreme.
There were predators that had ahigh propensity of likelihood
of reoffending.
They finished their prisonsentence and the court is

(01:15:39):
holding them, civilly held,inside the jail.
So there's dozens of guys inthere that have completed their
sentence but because they're sodangerous and so likely to
reoffend and hurt a kid, they'renot being released.
So there are people who are nota lot, but there's a few.
There's one guy that was inthere since I, like when I was a
brand new deputy, he was inthere.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Which prison was this ?

Speaker 1 (01:15:59):
The main jail in Santa Ana.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Yeah, have you ever worked in a prison before, like
long-term?

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
Well, yeah, so I was.
I was so in the Orange Countysystem, the sheriff's department
.
Our main duty is the jail andthe court.
So you start out in the jail asa deputy and then when you,
when you promote, they rewardyou by sending you back to the
jail.
So I was a sergeant in the jailfor the last six or seven years
of my career and I worked atthe main jail, the women's jail
and the intake and releasecenter, which is like where all
the mental health stuff.
So my last few years I wasdealing with very mentally sick

(01:16:37):
people on a daily basis in there.
I was basically kind ofsupervising the mental health.
It's the mental health hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
That is intense, right Like we shut down all the
mental health hospitals.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Yeah, and now they're all in our hospital.
That is intense, right, that isintense.
We shut down all the mentalhealth hospitals yeah and now
they're all in our jail.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
And so, yeah, so that's what I did, but yeah, so
I spent a lot of time in jailmyself.
Yeah, but yeah, so it's youtalk to these guys how about
women.
The women, yeah, the women'sjail, do you?

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
see more of women predators versus male predators.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Males are more, oh for sure, really by a lot.
Yeah yeah, women really.
I just, I don't know what it is.
It's just the way we're builtas human beings, like women
typically aren't doing that asoften we do have some.

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
We do yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
But it's not the percentage that you see with men
, and obviously women are jailedat way lower percentages per
the population than men are,because men are.
We're looking at the extremes,right of aggressiveness or
whatever and so percentage ofmen at the extreme ends are way
bigger than the women at theextreme ends.
So we have more men, violentmen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
And this kind of puts a puzzle.
I don't know how correct I amof this.
This is just something I'mputting together, but you said
that there are more boys beingsexually abused right than girls
.
Is that what you?

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
or no.
With the sexting, it's moreoften boys are victims because
they're impulsive and they'resending nude images of
themselves.
They're easy.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
They're easy marks, they're easy marks, marks, but
are you noticing it's more forboys, because I'm trying to put
think like why are there moremale predators?
Could it be because does thisgo back to that learned behavior
like they're?
Oh, I think I do feel like it's.
I think I think it's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:17):
I think it's genetic in the sense that the the power
role it's.
The people are predators, um,usually have, have or have have
power, whether it's physicalpower, yeah, size, whatever,
usually it's the people arepredators, um usually have have
or have have power, whether it'sphysical power yeah size
whatever.
Usually it's obviously age rightif you have an adult and a
child like yeah, that's theirvulnerability, yeah so, but I
just feel like, just in terms ofmen, of violence and this type

(01:18:42):
of stuff and maybe, um, theviolence, so I think it's just
skews towards the Y chromosomethan the X, apparently, but yeah
, so, yeah, women in their.
What's interesting is the thingthat I noticed is that almost
all the women in the jail that Italked to or I knew anything

(01:19:04):
about were, were, were, had beenabused in relationships.
So there's so there's a lot oftrauma there and yeah, and
they're, and they're typicallynot there because of, like,
they're not involved in a lot ofviolence, right.
It's usually others usually drugrelated or something else.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
That's interesting.
What's one advice you wouldgive parents?
Well, one I would say, or a few.
Well, maybe yeah, one importantone, one important I would say.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
I would say take time to spend time with your child
and talk to them.
Put your phone away Every timeyou're hanging out with your kid
, even if you're just sittingnext to them watching the ball
game or watching a movie andsomething.
Don't have your phone awayEvery time you're hanging out
with your kid, even if you'rejust sitting next to them
watching the ballgame orwatching a movie and something.
Don't have your phone out,because what you're signaling to
your child is that the phone ismore important than the time
that you're spending with them.
And then I would be veryintentional about just talking

(01:19:58):
to your kid and just aiming tokind of understand what's going
on with them.
The more you do that, the morelikely your child is going to
share things with you, sharetheir struggles with you, come
to you for help if they knowthat you're a person, you're a
safe person and you may have tobe explicit about it.
I told my boys, like I saidearlier, if you have a problem
and you come to me, I'm makingyou a promise I'm not going to

(01:20:18):
flip out on you, I'm not goingto judge you, I'm not going to
berate you, whatever, I'm goingto help you.
I can take your phone away.
I'm going to listen to you andif they know that you're good to
your word and they'll challengeyou like they'll do something
and later you're going to haveto like prove it.
I have boys now that come andtalk to me and actually in their
college, and sometimes theytell me things that actually I

(01:20:41):
don't even want to know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Like they tell me things I would never have told
my dad, but I'm so grateful thatthey feel like they can do,
that You've done something right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
I think maybe that's the biggest one.
The next one is, I would saycreate accountability for your
child, and you can only do thatby your child knowing that
there's consequences for them.
So if you're giving your childa phone, you know, put OurPact

(01:21:08):
on their phone.
They need to know that there'ssomething on there that's
monitoring them, or that you'remonitoring, so they'll pump the
brakes.
Okay, check in with them.
And you know I have lots ofsuggestions on my website.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
I'll link everything.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Yeah, the book is helpful.
I actually have a video series.
It's like my master class ofinternet safety for families,
and so a parent can work throughthe different modules and I
talk great detail about sexing,a lot about how to talk about
pornography, everything it isabout how to talk to your kid
about it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
And be patient, you know, because yeah, be a
listener, right.
Don't roll in there.
Like after parents come to mytalk, I tell them like don't go
home and just go nuts on yourkid.
We're taking this away.
We're doing this Like take.

Speaker 2 (01:22:00):
The bulldozer parents .

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Yes just take little bites Like if you want this much
, go do 25% of it, you know, andincrementally try to do things
where you get wins.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Yeah, and they also have to be age appropriate too.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
You know you can't like take away an 18-year-old's
phone and like I don't know, Ithink that punishment also, or
consequences, positive ornegative, have to be appropriate
with age.

Speaker 1 (01:22:25):
Absolutely you know, or else it doesn't make sense.
They're going to fight you onit, yeah, and your child should
not get a consequence withoutknowing up front what's at stake
.
Don't just get emotional andspring something crazy on them
or taking that away for the restof your life.

Speaker 2 (01:22:41):
That's going to build so much resentment.
That's a chaotic thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
Yeah, and you can't follow through?
No, because your kid knows, ifI just wait it out long enough,
my parent will cave.

Speaker 2 (01:22:50):
Yeah Well, thank you so much.
It was such an honor to haveyou on and I love the work
you're doing, and please don'tever stop spreading the message
and teaching parents and helpingkids.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
I appreciate you.
I appreciate you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

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Clayton Cranford | Digital Safety, Cyberbullying, Mental Health | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #34

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Clayton Cranford | Digital Safety, Cyberbullying, Mental Health | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #34