September 12, 2024 • 61 mins
Can your gut health really influence your mental well-being and chronic illnesses? Join us on an enlightening journey with Dr. Max Dula, a seasoned chiropractor and gut health physician, as we uncover the profound connection between your gut and overall wellness. Dr. Dula reveals his holistic approach to treating conditions like leaky gut and inflammation, emphasizing the crucial link between the gut-brain axis, the vagus nerve, and the microbiome. Discover why an overreliance on unnecessary supplements might be sidelining your true path to health.
Ever wondered how your genetic predispositions and gut health interplay to determine your wellness trajectory? Dr. Dula takes us through the fascinating world of epigenetics, explaining how factors like infections and trauma can activate disease-linked genes such as those responsible for Crohn's and Hashimoto's. Through advanced diagnostic tools like quantitative PCR stool tests and food sensitivity assessments, Dr. Dula shows how addressing gut inflammation can be pivotal. Learn about the differences between anabolic and catabolic states and how they affect your body's healing processes.
How do parasites impact your health, and why are more people turning to holistic medicine? Dr. Dula shares insights on the hidden dangers of parasites and how they can disrupt your nervous and immune systems. We also discuss the growing trend of parents seeking alternative health options for their families, fueled by a rising awareness and skepticism toward traditional Western medicine, particularly post-COVID-19. Hear practical tips for reducing inflammation through dietary changes and understand the long-term commitment required for holistic healing. Get ready to explore the transformative potential of addressing root causes like toxins, infections, and emotional stress to manage autoimmune conditions effectively.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When are we going to hit that point where the
threshold for your body to needto express disease it's come
under that threshold?
We don't know where that isbecause it's different for every
person, and so when you'redoing holistic medicine, it's a
long game and it's also let'ssee and let's play by ear.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Every medicine has a side effect and to heal one
thing, there's always anotherthing.
So there's so many people outthere that are stuck on these
meds and it's endless.
And it's so sad to see peoplestruggling like that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, we do help people that are sick, but you're
going to do yourself a favor ifyou just work with someone in
vitalism and functional medicineeven before you get sick, just
for wellness.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
When a woman is pregnant, they don't recommend
eating sushi which holds mercuryor any type of fish.
But when the child is born,it's okay to shoot mercury into
the brain of the child.
So I get the rabbit hole.
But these are some of thequestions that arise among
people and it's questionable.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
On the first stroke of petting the cat backwards
it'll kind of like look at you.
You know I don't like whatyou're doing.
I'm warning you.
The second one it might get upa little bit.
And the third one it might getup a little bit.
And the third one it might biteyou.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hello everyone.
Today's episode was veryinteresting.
I had on a gut doctor.
His name is Dr Max Dula,licensed chiropractor and also
health and gut physician in theLos Angeles area.
I wanted to do this segment ongut health because I myself have
been noticing an intense spikein autoimmune diseases and
(01:35):
chronic illnesses amongst men,women and, yes, children.
So I wanted to have on achiropractor who practices
holistic medicine to attackleaky gut and inflammation.
Today's topic was what is thedirect correlation between a
leaky gut and inflammation, andhis answers were actually quite
(01:55):
interesting and very educational.
We talked about heavy metals inthe body, lead in the body,
mold, parasites, and what he hadto say about parasites and mold
were fascinating.
There's a high chance that manypeople that are experiencing
autoimmune diseases and chronicillnesses are coming from
(02:15):
gut-related issues, and hisapproach is attacking the gut
first, because we all have aleaky gut that we need to take
care of and nurture.
So he teaches us how to do it.
We talk about supplements andhow we're overloading on
supplements that we don't need,where we just really need to
take a more holistic approachversus institutionalized
(02:37):
approach.
I think this episode isdefinitely keep you interested
and going to have you intriguedand, most importantly, I
genuinely wanted you guys tolearn the difference and the
correlation between your brainand your gut, because,
essentially, your first brain isyour gut and Dr Max explains
that today eloquently.
(02:58):
Enjoy this episode and makesure to subscribe to the channel
.
Thank you guys for joining me,supporting me and enjoy this
episode.
Dr Max, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Absolutely.
It's an honor.
I've been an avid fan.
I have to say.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
As I have you.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Thank you, and I've been following your work on gut
health for some time now and Ihave to say I'm fascinated
because I don't think that a lotof people know that the first
brain is our gut.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's blowing up.
Gut health is blowing up.
I feel it's becoming the newthing.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Absolutely, and I'm happy that we get to talk about
it today and educate ouraudience of why it's so
important to take care of ourgut.
So maybe you can start kind ofteaching us what is the brain
and gut correlation.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh well, there's a lot.
I think most people, when theythink of the gut-brain
connection, they think of thevagus nerve.
Just by the fact the vagusnerve is a cranial nerve and it
innervates a lot of organs thatregulate our autonomic nervous
system, which is part of thenervous system that we don't
consciously control, systemwhich is part of the nervous
(04:07):
system that we don't consciouslycontrol, and it goes all the
way down to the proximal orbeginning two-thirds of the
large intestine.
So your esophagus, your stomach, your small intestine, your
large intestine, all of that isregulated in part by the vagus
nerve, which stems from thebrain.
But there's a lot more to that.
Scientists are finding and I'mnot a scientist, I'm a clinician
, but from what I'm reading,there's a lot more to that in
(04:31):
terms of the microbiome itselfand the chemicals and cellular
signaling and metabolites thatessentially send signals back to
the brain on how to regulatethe enteric nervous system,
which is the gut.
So the gut and the brain.
They communicate back and forthnot just through the nervous
system but also chemical andcellular signaling.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
That's fascinating to me.
This is actually wild, but Ihave heard so many clinicians
psychiatrists heal depressionwith their patients from just
attacking the gut.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh, are they doing that now?
Yes, oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's fascinating, stepping on my turf Literally,
and it's crazy because it worksthat they've healed.
I've read so many articles onthis that depression can be
healed from the gut.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sometimes it's like a gut issue there.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Absolutely.
I mean up to 80 to 90% of ourserotonin is produced in our gut
.
And this is you, a while beforethere's any kind of defined
mechanism that can beinstitutionalized and prescribed
.
But they're starting to findout that it's a little bit more
(05:53):
than just a brain thing, it's agut thing.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's a gut thing.
When do you think this gutthing was discovered?
Is it recently, like new, orhas it been around for?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I mean, you know, Hippocrates is believed to have
said that all diseases begin inthe gut.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So I mean when did it start?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You know he see the granddaddy of it all.
I don't know, you know.
But certainly on the holisticside of things there is long,
you know, holistic medicine.
Naturopaths, chiropractors,people that approach health and
wellness from a systems approachas opposed to a divided and
(06:31):
segregated mechanistic approach,have always understood that
things interplay with oneanother.
How much they can debate aboutthe gut-brain connection in the
year 1900, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
That's so interesting to me that you so tell me the
you're a chiropractor, right.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Licensed chiropractor .
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Licensed chiropractor absolutely, and so I'm noticing
that a lot of chiropractorslike yourself, they're
practicing holistic medicine.
Now, why did you get intoholistic medicine?
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So I actually had my own health issues growing up.
I got diagnosed with Crohn'sdisease when I was 13.
And then I had otherinflammatory and autoimmune
conditions pop up, 19.
And I was still functional.
But after college I actuallywent to work on Wall Street and
when I was there things reallyhit the fan and I went on
(07:22):
disability at age 24 with allkinds of probably like a list of
30 things that would send me to30 different kinds of doctors
and institutionalized medicine,and I just knew that there's no
way.
This, there was no relationshipbetween all these things.
And so, you know, thingsweren't working out and I
started becoming a patient ofpeople in vitalism and some of
(07:43):
these people were chiropractorsand some were naturopaths and I
decided that in order to savemyself, I had to become active
in my own healing, and I didn'twant to be on the passive end of
things.
And so I went back to schooland I said you know, if I can
heal myself and then help othersheal, I think that would be
pretty fulfilling.
So that's how I ended up goingto chiropractic school.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's amazing.
So do they teach you holistichealth in chiropractic school?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, the meat of chiropractic school is going to
be 90% the same of any otherkind of healthcare profession
medicine, physical therapy nursenurse practitioner, because the
goal is mostly to pass boards.
But the remaining 10% isclinical In chiropractic school.
The heavy majority of it is onthe musculoskeletal system.
(08:32):
It just so happens that thereis no institution of functional
medicine or systems-based healthcare.
Even naturopathic school oftenis very much based on.
You have this condition andthis is the evidence for this
herb that can help thiscondition.
But that's still not getting tothe root that much, which is
(08:52):
what is the etiology, what isthe cause, the origin of these
conditions and what are thesystems in interplay.
So a lot of some not a lot somechiropractors will gravitate
towards that kind of thing,maybe because they knew a
chiropractor who was doing thiskind of stuff.
That that's like me.
And then there's naturopathswho do the same.
So it could be a naturopathchiropractor, osteopathic
(09:13):
physician if they didn't go intoinstitutionalized medicine.
But really there is noinstitution that owns holistic
medicine.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
This leads to my next question is where does
institutional medicine fallshort?
This leads to my next questionis where does institutional
medicine fall?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
short.
Well okay, so where to begin?
So there's pluses and minuses.
I mean I'm glad thatinstitutionalized medicine
exists, especially for acutecare.
I mean, if I have an acuteinfection or I break my leg, I
don't want to go see a licensedchiropractor or a naturopath.
This is something serious.
And so emergency care and acutecare is really well developed in
(09:49):
institutionalized medicine andthat's actually how it
originated.
Is institutionalized medicinereally came from?
During the Civil War?
Okay, so you know about this.
So you know a lot of physiciansbegan doing surgery and acute
care and there'd be, you know,medics on the field, and so
that's really the foundation ofinstitutionalized medicine.
When it comes to chronicillness or chronic diseases,
(10:12):
institutionalized medicine hasmore of an approach of managing
illness as opposed to reversingand promoting healing.
So if someone has IBS orconstipation or Crohn's, they
might be given drugs in order toforcefully cause motility of
the gut, or they might giveimmunosuppressive drugs for
(10:37):
Crohn's disease.
But what happens in theseindividuals is they tend to get
problems elsewhere, because theroot cause and if you look at
the research, the chances whereyou have one autoimmune disease
that you're going to haveanother is just huge, it is huge
.
And it's because the root causeof what causes autoimmunity is
never addressed and so they justkeep going on these autoimmune,
immunosuppressive drugs.
(10:58):
But they really their sicknessis just being managed, and
that's where the phrase sickcare comes from, and that
institutionalized medicine, whenit comes to chronic illness, is
more about sick care, nothealthcare.
But that's just a semantics,like you know playground type,
you know Big pharma, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So Big pharma and it's so unfortunate, because I
do have to agree with you thatevery medicine has a side effect
, and to heal one thing, there'salways another thing.
So Every medicine has a sideeffect, and to heal one thing,
there's always another thing.
So there's so many people outthere that are stuck on these
meds and it's endless.
And it's so sad to see peoplestruggling like that.
Where the cure there's otheranswers, there's alternative,
(11:36):
but people don't know thealternative.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, we don't grow up.
Society has decided tocommunicate that what you do is
you wake up, you have yourcereal, you eat your Wheaties
and if you get sick you go seeyour medical doctor.
The survivability of holisticmedicine has purely been off
word of mouth and demand, andthat wouldn't be around if it
wasn't for results.
So I didn't grow up wanting tobe a chiropractor or even
(12:06):
knowing what vitalistic medicineis.
It was my own experience andhow institutionalized medicine
couldn't serve me with chronicillness that I fell into it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And that's what happens with a lot of people and
what the interesting thingabout that is that we have
leaned on the government to keepus alive, and that's so
unfortunate.
We have so much faith in themwhere you know there's again.
There's so many otheralternatives.
But this is my next questionwhat are the most common causes
of chronic illnesses that you'veseen?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So obviously you know I have a bias of being of
working on the gut, but I thinkit's fair to say that 90 to 95%
of people, whatever theircondition is whether it's
primarily a gut-relatedcondition or their experience is
a symptom thyroid, headache,fatigue and they may not have
any gut issues that if Iapproach wellness, looking for
(12:53):
hidden infections, toxins andapproaching through the gut, I
get about a 90% to 95% rate ofreversing disease in individuals
.
So really it just goes back towhat is the cause of disease.
The cause of disease is theinability to adapt to stressors.
(13:14):
What are stressors?
These are hidden infections andtoxins Environmental,
environmental toxins, alsoemotions.
What does that cause?
It causes inflammation andinflammation is what leads to
the illness experience that youhave, because you can find
healthy people and you can findthese toxins and infections.
They don't have the experience.
(13:34):
They're likely not experiencingthe inflammatory response or
immune dysregulation that thesick people are.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Since you brought up autoimmune diseases.
Do you, as a professionalclinician, do you feel that
thyroid, since so many women andmen are being diagnosed with
Hashimoto's disease, graves'disease?
Are these diseases caused byleaky gut?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, so there is research and you know, from a
clinical standpoint I do seecorrelation between increased
intestinal permeability, orleaky gut, and autoimmunity of
the thyroid, and the majorbelief is so, in leaky gut
there's a permeable membranebetween the blood and your gut,
(14:20):
where the gut will absorbnutrients.
But when there is inflammationin the gut, this membrane, which
has what's called tightjunctions, becomes disrupted and
porous, and so things thatshouldn't enter the bloodstream,
such as food, protein particles, certain toxic elements, that-.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So it's these environmental or et cetera,
these stressors are entering inthe gut and causing this?
Yes, is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, so, whatever you know the, you know our mouth
and our butt is the only thingthat reaches the outside world
you know from either end.
And so you know, when we consumethese things and we have our
own microbiome, we want to keepit separate from the rest of our
body, especially thecirculatory system, where
inflammation, the immuneresponse, will occur.
So when these things passthrough the gut blood barrier,
(15:12):
there is an immune response andspecifically with thyroid, it's
thought to believe that theirimmune system it's called
molecular mimicry the immunesystem mistakes the gluten
protein for thyroid hormone, andso when there is an immune
response against the glutenprotein, if there is molecular
(15:33):
mimicry, the immune system canactually attack the thyroid
gland.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Wow, yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's a lot and it's more than that too.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Can you tell us the more?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, let me just take a step.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yes, please.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
The more is also epigenetics and genetic
expression.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I'm so fascinated with epigenetics.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Because really, unless you're born with a
genetic condition, a lot ofthings that come later is
through some sort of triggerthat causes genetic expression
of disease symptoms, and sothere are certain genes and
genetic sequences that leavepeople more inclined, or they
(16:18):
might be more at risk, todevelop things like Crohn's
disease or things likeHashimoto's.
But it requires a trigger andactually if you Google any
autoimmune disease and you'llsee what are the causes, on
almost all of them you're goingto find infection or trauma of
some kind and then you're goingto get a bunch of other things.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Oh, the body keeps score.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So that triggering aspect is what that inflammatory
aspect is.
What can cause these genes tobegin to express, develop their
own proteins?
A lot of the times in the formsof antigens attacking your own
body.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
So what you're saying is people are genetically
predisposed.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
We all are yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Like schizophrenia.
You might have the gene, butit's not activated.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yes.
You know until something happensand it's activated and that's
it.
So it's the same concept andthat's why I encourage people
that this truly is wellness care, because you may not even be at
the point of expression, but Ican dive into your gut, figure
out what is out of balance thereand I can take care of those
things before these triggers gooff.
(17:18):
And so really it is a wellnesscare agenda.
Yes, we do help people that aresick, but you're going to do
yourself a favor if you justwork with someone in vitalism
and functional medicine evenbefore you get sick, just for
wellness, because in Westernmedicine, wellness care falls
short.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Once you get sick.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
They're there for you because you know that's
incentive.
Yeah, and it's not the doctor'sfault, it's just the system
that they got put in.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Sometimes it can be.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I mean, you already know my personality and what I
bring to the platform.
Let's be real here.
Not all doctors are that honest.
Oh, of course not, and so it'sthe unfortunate piece.
But that's why I want everybodyto know about you, because it's
just a different approach andit's a more honest approach and
more, you know, holisticapproach, which I know that my
audience loves that.
(18:09):
So, dr Max, tell us, why do youfocus on the gut?
Yes, we know that it heals andthere's all these great things,
but why particularly the gut?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, so partly from my personal experience, but also
, you know some people when theygo to see a functional medicine
doctor, they'll run like $2,000worth of labs and they'll look
from everything into hormones,they'll look into nutrient
deficiencies, malabsorption, allthese kinds of things, things
that are are useful to know.
(18:41):
But what is the heaviest hitter?
What is the thing that if youfocus on, you're gonna have an
80% batting average and thenokay, if that doesn't work out,
at least you took care of that,now let's do some more labs.
So almost every functionalmedicine practitioner, even the
people that aren't focused onthe gut, are gonna do some sort
of gut assessment.
(19:02):
I just go into it a lot deeperbecause of my personal
experiences.
I know more than what was justtaught in functional medicine.
I can guide people throughWestern medicine and if I want
something from a medical doctor,I can almost tell the patient
what to say in order to sort ofgoad that medical doctor to help
us out.
So the reason why I focusaround the gut is, one, because
(19:25):
it's a heavy hitter.
Two, it's so prevalent.
And three, this is an areawhere I really feel I can help
patients be co-managed withinstitutionalized medicine.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's amazing.
So tell us, how do you assessthe gut?
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So there's different labs.
When I'm doing remote work, Ilike to use GI map.
It's probably the most commonlab test run on people, so it's
a blood work.
It's a stool test.
It's a stool test.
It's called quantitative PCR,so it checks for DNA patterns of
microbes in your stool and ifthere's DNA found, it's
(20:04):
suggestive that these types ofmicrobes exist in your gut.
And on top of that I'll also dofood sensitivity testing If you
might be producing antibodiesagainst certain foods.
And the whole goal of that isto.
When we're treating, we alsowant to simultaneously reduce
inflammation, becauseinflammation can prevent healing
(20:27):
from taking place.
We're either in a catabolicstate or an anabolic state.
So while I'm treating peoplefor whatever infections they
have or whatever is showing upin their gut lab, we also want
to make sure that they are notcausing inflammation further.
That's going to be having uskind of swim upstream.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Dr Max, what is cannabolic and anabolic?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Anabolic is more of a healing type phase, when you
know, whenever you lift weightsor you're building muscle,
you're entering to a stage of ananabolic state, like with, I
mean, steroids is an easyexample Anabolic steroids those
things build tissue.
And then there's catabolicsteroids, such as if you were to
take an epidural for some sortof or prednisone that can
(21:14):
actually break down tissues.
So it's for the goal ofreducing pain, but we want the
body to be in an anabolic state,not a catabolic state.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Got it, at least for healing.
Okay, so you get the testresults, and what is something
common that you see?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Almost everyone will have something.
What's?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
that something.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, so it'll assess for bacteria, viruses,
parasites, fungi and yeast, andit'll also check for markers of
inflammation, whether there'sblood in the stool, whether the
pancreas is producing enoughenzymes to break down food.
So it's in terms of bang foryour buck, it's.
(21:55):
It's a really good test.
Uh, it doesn't test foreverything you know, but, um, if
you find something on there,it's a good place to start.
So, in terms of bacteria,there's pathogenic bacteria,
which pathogenic means that evena healthy person can get sick
by this kind of pathogen.
And then there's alsoopportunistic bacteria, which a
(22:15):
lot of the times, a healthyperson would not get sick from,
and in many cases these type ofbacteria already live within us.
But if we lack the beneficialbacteria, then these
opportunistic bacteria canoutnumber the beneficial
bacteria and then cause symptoms.
So it's not just looking aboutwhat you caught, for example,
(22:36):
but literally the harmoniousbalance between beneficial
bacteria and harmful bacterialike opportunistic bacteria.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
So then, the goal for you, as a clinician, is to
clean the gut.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Pretty much.
It's not just removinginfections.
I'll also do heavy metals tests.
It's another common thing I'lldo.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
How about lead?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, that's part of the heavy metals test.
So you know, lead, mercury,those are probably two of the
most.
Aluminum are probably three ofthe most common heavy metals
that I'll see, but it can also.
It's another one of thosethings where, similar to the
food panel, it's going to becausing inflammation, and so we
want to do a heavy metal detoxwhile we're working on your gut
(23:19):
as well.
Really, those are like the fabthree you know, in terms of
getting rid and helping the 90to 95% of people.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Do you work with kids also?
Because half the kids arevaccinated and they've got all
that heavy metal and thatmercury and yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
So I do work with kids while their mom or dad is
there and a lot of times withthe kids we will do some sort of
heavy metal detox or we'regonna look if there's any immune
dysregulation or autoimmunityand we're just gonna do the same
thing just at smaller doses.
And it's not a bad idea, afteryou get vaccinated to get
assessed because, just like ifyou catch an illness, the point
(23:59):
of a vaccination is to cause animmune response.
I mean that's why they add allthese, you know, things like
aluminum and stuff in there isbecause they want to cause an
immune response.
But sometimes that immuneresponse doesn't come down as
easily as in other kids orpeople in general.
And it can go on and on and onand it could be a little tricky
to figure out.
What is it that is causing this?
(24:20):
But really it's hard to say.
There's no conclusive evidencethat it was the vaccine and I
don't care what it is.
I'm just going to find what I'mlooking for and I'm going to
clear that out.
That's why I say I don't treatcondition X Y Z.
I just remove the interferencefrom the individual and give the
body the ability to heal.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
That's beautiful.
So then, now that we know thatthese types of results that you
get, these can cause a leaky gut, correct?
My question is what is theleaky gut and what kind of
health issues can it lead to?
So, yes, these things do causehealth dilemmas, but what kind
of health dilemmas?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Autoimmunity is a big one.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Is a big one.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
There's a belief that because when these particles
cross into the blood it createsan immune response and blood is
systemic I mean it contacts alltypes of organs and so you can
get accumulation of toxins andall kinds of organs and the
immune system might mistakenlybelieve that there's an issue
with the organ versus somethingthat's in the organ.
(25:26):
That's why, if you do look upany autoimmune condition, you'll
see some kind of infectioninvolved.
It's just the immune system gottricked or it's a little
haywire or messy, and soautoimmune conditions, chronic
fatigue syndrome, chronic pain.
I've had people come see methat maybe they've had surgery,
people who say that they havefibromyalgia, things like that,
(25:49):
and a lot of it really comesback to the gut, because one of
the key sources of inflammation,systemic inflammation, is
coming from the leaky gut.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Dr Max, what is the correlation between the leaky
gut and inflammation, or isthere not?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Oh, there's a hundred percent correlation.
I don't know that you can haveleaky gut.
Well, leaky gut is kind of afunky diagnosis, because our gut
is supposed to be leaky to anextent in that we absorb
nutrition.
That's why Western medicinehasn't been able to really
clearly define what that is,because it's on a spectrum.
But just as the gut becomesmore porous, there's things that
(26:27):
are gonna be able to pass thatis supposed to be waste, and
waste is toxic, and so it'spassing in your bloodstream.
The immune system knows that'snot supposed to be there, and so
it's passing in yourbloodstream.
The immune system knows that'snot supposed to be there, and so
there's going to be aninflammatory response.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So that's the wow.
I just got the image of thatand that's gnarly, by the way.
Thank you for that.
So that's the idea of the leakygut, so it's waste leaking into
your bloodstream.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, or what's meant to be waste, a part of waste,
what's?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
that.
So that's the inflammation,though.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
That is gonna cause the inflammation.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So people have joint pain, god knows what else.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
The list is growing.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
What do you see that's most common?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Autoimmune conditions , chronic pain, multiple
chemical sensitivity.
Multiple chemical sensitivity,so multiple chemical sensitivity
people chemical sensitivityyeah, so multiple chemical
sensitivity.
People who are sensitive to,you know, bleach or other.
So skin sensitivity, not justskin, or like body response Body
response they can enter, theycreate an immune response and
(27:26):
they can get headaches or dizzyor fatigued.
Sometimes people get knockedout.
They can't handle walking downthe laundry detergent aisle in
stores.
I remember in my worst time Icouldn't go into a bathroom if
it was clean within the last daybecause the bleach would just
kill me.
And it's not just that itsmells bad, it's that it hits
you like your whole body.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Right, it affects everything.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, so that's a big one.
A lot of these are sort ofsyndrome-esque type conditions
like irritable bowel syndrome,chronic fatigue syndrome,
fibromyalgia doesn't have theword syndrome in it, but the
point being is there's no cleardefinition of what is the cause
of these conditions.
There's many roads to Rome.
(28:10):
People can have a similarexperience, but the individual
causative factors can bedifferent from one person than
another.
That's why I don't.
That's why Western medicine,when they treat with drugs,
they're only trying to improvethe function of the person.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
It's a band-aid.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
It's a band-aid type approach, but because there's so
many contributing factors andit's not clear that this caused
this and X caused Y and Y causedZ.
And that's whatinstitutionalized medicine needs
in their research in order todevelop something that's
standardized.
And that is the plus and theminus of functional medicine or
(28:45):
holistic medicine.
The plus is that it's notstandardized in the sense that
if someone's not able to helpyou, there might be someone else
who can.
But it can also be a negative,because a lot of people are
doing things that other peoplearen't doing, and so that
communication is going to bedifficult from one provider to
another.
So standardization occurs inany kind of institution,
(29:08):
including medicine.
It provides a benefit.
A urologist is a urologist is aurologist and functional
medicine.
Just if you call yourself afunctional medicine doctor
doesn't mean that you could talkthe same language as another
functional medicine doctor.
I mean there might be overlap,but there is a lack of
standardization.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
What are you seeing more from the women and what are
you seeing more from the men?
Women, I tend Causation.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Oh well, okay, so the causation all comes down to
toxins, infections and youremotional well-being.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So same thing.
Mostly it goes back to that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
There are some genetic predispositions, but for
the most part that can bereversed.
Unless you're talking aboutsomething like celiacs.
Like if someone comes to me andthey have celiac disease, like,
listen, I can remove all theinterference stressors that you
have, but you're always going toreact to gluten.
But the way I kind of describethis is you ever pet a cat
(30:02):
backwards.
The cat doesn't like that right, I hate cats.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
No, I haven't, so you've never done that.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
No, Okay, I used to have a cat, so when I was a kid,
to annoy my cat I would wearthis heavy jacket.
So if it bit me it wouldn't doanything to me and I would just
pet my cat backwards.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
That would irritate him.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
The cat hates.
Oh yeah, they got to be keptnice and clean.
But on the first stroke ofpetting the cat backwards it'll
kind of like look at you, youknow I don't like what you're
doing.
I'm warning you.
The second one, it might get upa little bit.
And the third one, it mightbite you.
One, it might bite you.
Okay, some people their immunedysregulation is at the point
where all it takes is justpoking that cat and the immune
response is going to cause thesymptom experience.
That's something like celiacs,other things where the genetic
(30:45):
predisposition isn't as strongand the immune response isn't as
sensitive Crohn's, otherautoimmune conditions,
rheumatoid arthritis.
We might be able to get you tothe point where, yeah, you can
start eating these foods again.
Or, yes, you can go to somepart of the place that has toxic
things around you and you'renot going to enter the symptom
(31:05):
experience.
But if you do it over and overand over again, you will get to
that point where you get illagain.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So then, now that we've talked about all the
causes and what's reallyhappening, then how do we fix?
Fix is a not the best word.
For a lack of better word, I'mjust going to use fix.
How do we attack inflammation?
What do we do?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, no, it's so hard because and you know I
don't claim to have all theanswers because, first of all,
we live in a world where there'sstressors all around us that
contribute to inflammation.
It's just impossible to keepaway from it all.
But a few tips, yeah, a fewtips Not eating processed foods.
(31:45):
Okay, let's start with foodsNot eating processed foods, not
eating too much sugar and noteating refined grains.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So like 98% of our food is that Most food.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, that's probably the toughest part, to be honest
.
It is Making sure that yourhome or your workspace doesn't
have mold is a big one.
We spend a lot more timeindoors than our ancestors have.
Maybe they used to workoutdoors.
But also the way buildings arebuilt there's a lot more rooms
for dry, damp areas, and so moldis more capable of growing in
(32:24):
places that historically.
But the thing is, I don't wantto scare anybody because a lot
of influencers out there theypost all these things and it can
really be scary.
I mean, and I get it becausethey're trying to sell a service
or they're trying to get peopleinto a mindset.
But listen, there are peopleout there who live.
Probably there's mold that theyencounter.
(32:47):
Humans have always been aroundmold.
There's always been.
There's people who eat pizzaand whatever, and you know
they're doing fine.
And so if you get into a fearstate, that fear state is going
to create neurologicalhypervigilance or sympathetic,
which which can get you sick.
And so I I actually have like amoral quandary, like every time
(33:09):
I post, I'm like, oh my God, amI, am I creating anxiety?
Am I creating?
Yeah, and and that you know thefear state and you know, I'm
sure you know all about this butreally feeling that you are
going to be OK and that if youthink the world is dangerous,
that's tough.
And so whenever I work withsomeone, I say you, you've got
to be approaching your, you'vegot to approach your emotional,
(33:32):
you've got to build emotionalresilience just as much as you
build physical resilience.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Absolutely.
I agree with you on that piecethat stressors cause more damage
.
Why don't medical doctors treatleaky gut?
Tell me that.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Because the AMA hasn't provided a standardized
protocol for it, but they knowit, don't you think?
I think that most well.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
it depends how much 100 years in med school.
Well, I don't know how to treata leaky gut.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
I don't know that they teach leaky gut in med
school.
No, no, I mean, I think theyunderstand the concept of
intestinal permeability,probably just from the fact that
if they attend conferencesoutside of med school of ongoing
research, but in terms of justwhat's in med school, it's not a
big part because it's not adiagnosis that is being treated
in institutionalized medicine.
So there's going to be somedoctors more of them know it now
because it's not that newanymore.
(34:25):
It was 10 years ago.
Maybe a bunch didn't know aboutit, but really you got to use
your own time and do your ownhomework to learn about things
like leaky gut.
It's not going to be taught aspart of med school.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
So then this leads to my next question of what are
the downsides of holisticmedicine then?
Speaker 1 (34:43):
The downsides are kind of what we touched on
earlier is that there is nostandardization.
So if someone doesn't get youbetter, you could spend years
jumping from person to personand you don't know if that new
person that you're seeing hassome skill set that can help you
that the previous person didn't.
(35:04):
Maybe they don't.
That's also the plus in thathope is not lost, but it's also
the downside in that this can goon in perpetuity.
So the lack of standardizationthere is a downside to that.
The other downside is, you know,there is no oversight on
holistic medicine.
This is partly of why I can dowhat I do.
(35:24):
If you try to go to a medicaldoctor and you say, hey, I want
to address the toxins, theinfections and, you know, heal
my gut, they can't even do it,even if they agree with you,
because they are under theumbrella of the AMA and if they
do not run course, if they donot run protocol with what
they're supposed to do, they'repersonally held liable.
So it even extends beyond theinstitution.
(35:46):
The individuals can personallybe at risk in institutionalized
medicine, but with holisticmedicine there's no guarantees.
With institutionalized medicineyou can bet that if you take
this drug, you know for a fact90% of people are going to
respond this way.
10% of people are going torespond this way.
With holistic medicine, it'sreally let's see, let's see what
(36:07):
happens, and when are we goingto hit that point where the
threshold for your body to needto express disease it's come
under that threshold.
We don't know where that isbecause it's different for every
person, and so when you'redoing holistic medicine, it's a
long game and it's also let'ssee and let's play by ear.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And honestly, I think that this is why people
gravitate more towards Westernmedicine, because it's instant
gratification.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
It is.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Holistic medicine takes time.
It's not cheap because it's notcovered by insurance.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So a lot of these things are done with cash and
people don't have the time, theydon't have the patience.
What advice can you givesomeone who wants to have
holistic healing and wants toheal their gut but can't really?
They just want that instantgratification Like, I want it
now.
I need it now type of healing.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Well, I think, first of all, you're going to have to
deal with the fact you're goingto have to arrive at a point
where you can feel, okay, thatthere is not going to be instant
gratification because itdoesn't exist in holistic
medicine, and so that's someself-work that you're gonna have
to do.
You're gonna have to go intoyourself and ask yourself what's
the part of me that isdemanding this instant
(37:19):
gratification and what's so badabout not having that instant
gratification?
Is it that I lose hope?
Is it that I lose trust andbelief?
Okay, why would I lose thattrust and belief?
Where is that coming from?
So that's going to be theself-work, and that's why so
many people just can't do it,because they have these parts
within their philosophicalframework of what they want and
(37:42):
desire, that they don't have thepatience and they just, you
know they can't go through thatroad.
But certain people do, honestly,mostly women.
You know women are the bestpatients.
I mean, they are.
You know they will do the diets, they, they will, they will go,
they will do the long haul.
You know men tend to want that.
They don't have the patience.
(38:02):
They want that instantgratification.
Generalizing here, not noteveryone, but certainly, yeah,
having that commitment to theframework and understanding what
this is and what it is not isabsolutely necessary, because it
is a long haul game.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
It is Now, dr Max.
I understand that there is ahigh rates of autoimmune
diseases among women.
Now how long does it usuallytake let's just say thyroid for
a minute how long does it taketo heal a leaky gut or
inflammation that's causingthyroid dilemmas in women?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
It ranges from person to person depending.
A lot of it can't be predicted,but someone might just have
parasitic infection and nothingelse shows up.
They're fine with heavy metals,they're fine with bacteria,
they're already on a clean dietand so, okay, let's just take
care of you, know this parasiticinfection, and let's give you
(38:57):
things in order to restore yourgut microbiota and heal the
lining of the gut.
That might not take very muchtime.
But some people, they have alot of things that show up and
not everything can be attackedat once, because your ability to
heal also requires energy.
And so if you throw a ton ofthings at someone and they may
(39:20):
not actually have theconstitution to heal and utilize
everything you're throwing atthem, and then there's the risk
of saying, okay, well, thisdoesn't work, I don't know what
to do.
So you really have to decide.
Okay, what do I want to attackfirst?
What are the phases that I wantto go through?
But I would say you know, onaverage, when I, when people
work with me, I say give me sixmonths, you know, in six months
(39:41):
either I can get you better orI'll know exactly how much more
time it's going to take, or I'llknow if I cannot and if I need
to refer you out to someone elsewho does something that I'm not
as good at, but six months isreally a good amount of time and
some people it takes as littleas three months.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
And what are some of the results that you get from
women.
Let's just say again, goingback to thyroid, because this is
huge, so many women are in this, and men too.
I don't want to just keep it onwomen, but when do you, when
you detox the body andeverything is okay do they feel
a difference?
Is this truly curable withoutmedicine?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, I don't like to use the word cure because there
is no cure, but it's all aboutreducing the need for expression
there is no cure for thyroid.
Well, you can take medication tomanage the expression of
autoimmunity, but your body willalways be coded.
The blueprint will be there toproduce the antigens in
(40:42):
autoimmune disease.
But can we remove the reasonswhy the expression or production
of antibodies exist?
And that comes back toinflammation.
What's the cause ofinflammation?
Toxins, infections andemotional stress.
So you can either take the drugto artificially suppress the
immune system so that thethyroid doesn't get attacked, or
(41:02):
you can actually try to addressthe root causes.
But to answer your question,all kinds of things get better
in people.
They come in with a primarycomplaint.
They can live with the second,the third and the fourth, the
fifth and the 10th and the 11th.
Okay, they're there, but whatthey find is that a lot of
things get better, things thatthey didn't even originally come
to see me for.
Because that's just how healthworks.
(41:25):
It is a systems-based approach.
It doesn't just work where onething is getting better at a
time.
Unless you go thepharmaceutical, western type
route, then you really are.
It is one symptom at a time.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Dr Max, let's talk about some of the symptoms that
an individual might experienceif they have heavy metals in the
body and or parasite.
And so I mean, what are somethings that cause?
There's people out there thatare feeling something, but
they're not conscious and awareof it.
They know something's off.
So what can we teach them?
Like how, what are some ofthese symptoms?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
A lot of them overlap I'll just put that out there
from the beginning is thatsomeone can't come with a
symptom and I can with 100%conviction know what it is
that's causing that symptom.
That's why I do run the labsand if there are no heavy metals
and there are parasites, then Icould be a little more
confident that it's likely theparasites.
(42:20):
But if there's both, I stilldon't know which one it is.
I just know that we have toaddress both reasons, but what
they can cause heavy metals, forexample, a lot of neurological
and cognitive.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Can we talk about them?
Sure the talk about which whichpart the neurological dilemmas
that it causes.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah.
So difficulty concentrating,brain fog, chronic fatigue,
anxiety in children, especiallyif you're pregnant, it can cause
neurological development issues.
I mean, this is where thetheory behind the vaccines come
from.
(42:58):
Is, you know and I'm not takinga position either way because I
don't have the absoluteconfidence but I can just tell
you what the theory is.
The theory of the people whoclaim that vaccines cause autism
and things like that is that asbabies or in the womb, or even
up until the age of two, theblood brain barrier, which has
(43:19):
the same tight junctions as thegut, hasn't fully solidified yet
.
And so when you are injectingsomething into a kid, or the mom
is exposed to lead in abuilding, for example, and she's
sharing the blood with the baby, that these chemicals and
metals can move into the brainand cause inflammation in the
(43:40):
brain.
And so one of the theories isthat what's included in these
vaccines are going into thebrain and causing inflammation
in the prefrontal cortex, whichis a large part of believed to
be where the dysregulation ofautism takes place.
So you know, whether or notthat's conclusively I don't know
, but it's certainly somethingto think about and do your own
(44:05):
risk assessment on all thatstuff.
And unfortunately, we don'thave all the data that we need
to make an accurate-.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
And these are the studies we should be doing,
though.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
You know, and they are doing some studies out there
.
You know, I don't make this myfocus because that is a rabbit
hole.
I mean it's that rabbit isreally underground, and if you
can make your spend your wholelife going down that rabbit hole
and I just chose not to but doI know a little bit about it
yeah, and so that's kind of cankind of tell you.
(44:33):
You know what they are thinking.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
The interesting to me is that you know when a mother
I'm going to use the word motherwhen a mother is pregnant, when
a woman is pregnant, they don'trecommend eating sushi which
holds mercury or any type offish, but when the child is born
, it's okay to shoot mercuryinto the brain of the child.
So you know I get the rabbithole, but these are some of the
(44:58):
questions that arise amongpeople and it's questionable.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
No, it's true.
I mean, okay, the amount ofaluminum in a vaccine.
It's so minuscule and this isthe argument you know this is
the people who arepro-vaccination make is that
it's so minuscule that if you'reeating sushi or you're eating
other things you're exposed waymore.
But then the counterargument isthat okay, but it's not
crossing the liver or it's notcrossing these other aspects
(45:25):
that are used specifically fordetoxing and the major function
of the liver.
It has many functions, but onebig one is to detox and to
prevent toxins from enteringinto the bloodstream.
And so, yeah, I mean, if youinject someone with something, I
mean it's bypassing all of that.
And so you know, I don't know,you know I'll have to, I just I
don't know, I understand and Irespect that.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Let's go back to the neurological dilemmas that can
be caused by having these heavymetals and these parasites in
the body?
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Oh yeah, Parasites.
We talked about the heavymetals.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
So some of the heavy metals can cause focus issues,
sleep deprivation and et cetera.
I think we got that down.
What about parasites?
Because this is huge, Manypeople are doing these parasite
cleanses.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, so here's the thing is that we live with
parasites in our microbiome.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
So it's already there .
Speaker 1 (46:14):
It's already there.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Let's not freak anybody out because it's a
gnarly picture.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
I know I feel like every time I see like an
influencer post something, I'mjust like I just want to be that
guy.
I was just like, oh yeah, butyou know, you have it naturally.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Cause they're my friends.
You know they're sharing myposts.
I can't no.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I'm kidding.
So then, how safe can theseparasite cleansers be?
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I mean.
So it really comes down toparasitic load.
So you know, if you have toomany and this is where this is
why the microbiome is soimportant is because if you have
a healthy balance to yourmicrobiome, it will create the
conditions where parasitesreally can't grow and multiply
beyond what the biome aroundthem permits.
(46:54):
But yeah, it's true, I meanfish specifically.
There's been studies done on.
You know how often they findparasites in sushi, and it's way
more now than it was even just20 years ago.
You almost can't escape it anda lot of time it's.
You won't you know if you cutthe fish.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
You won't see it because there's eggs.
So, it's not a bad idea to doparasite cleanses.
I eat sushi.
It's a lighter topic.
Away from the worms, all right.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Everyone out there who you think that they're just
like the ultimate example ofhealth.
Come on, everybody is like youhave to live your life, and are
there some people who really are?
Speaker 2 (47:36):
the perfect Superman of the way I'm sure they're out
there, but I don't know any.
I don't know any either.
Okay, so naturally we haveparasites in us, but what are
some of the causes?
If we have those dangerous ones, what could we feel?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
So absolutely gastrointestinal disorders.
And it's not even consistent,because this is interesting is
that your body, if you have anacute parasite infection meaning
it just happened like you wentto Vietnam or something like
that you might have somethinglike explosive diarrhea and this
will be because your body istrying to get rid of the
parasite.
Oh, my goodness, Sometimes whatI see in people with chronic
(48:08):
parasitic infections isconstipation, because the
parasite wants to stay and soit's creating this environment
where it will make it moredifficult for you to pass, and
so someone could haveconstipation or diarrhea, and it
could be either one.
And that's exactly why I saydon't treat X, Y, Z.
I just see what I find and goafter that and also sleep issues
(48:34):
and anxiety.
This is, you know.
You were talking earlier abouthow therapists are approaching
anxiety by going after the gutProbably more than bacteria and
viruses, probably even fungi.
There is a massive correlationbetween parasitic infection and
anxiety and sleep disorders.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
How dangerous is it to have these parasites in your
body?
Well, I mean, you die from this.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I mean, I think, in probably the most severe acute
cases.
But like you'll know, like youknow you'll be in the hospital
and then they'll find out youhave a parasite and you'll get
better, Like most people in infirst world countries are not
going to die from parasites, butyou can because they're immune
to it.
No, because, well, for the mostpart, parasites won't kill you.
They want to keep you alivebecause you are a host for them.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Okay, that's in general, just anything that's
parasitic or that is livingwithin you.
They would prefer that you stayalive for their benefit.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
They're feeding off of you.
What else are they going to do,right?
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Hey, we need you, bro , like you can't, we need you
here, but certainly your lifecan be quite miserable, yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Ew.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
What's my next question?
I forgot my next questionBecause I'm very good with
visuals and I just have likethese white worms in my mind
right now.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
It's too much.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
It's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
So is it true?
There's this myth in my culture.
By the way, you know that I'mArmenian right.
Okay, when a child is clenchingtheir teeth when they're
sleeping, you know that, clinchthey do it's because of
parasites.
Is this true?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
There is a correlation.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
It's not conclusive, but 100%.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Wow.
So how does that cause that,though?
What's going on with that?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
It's just an upregulation of the sympathetic
nervous system and theseparasites you know.
Interesting with parasites isthey will produce toxins and
chemicals that will then control, they almost hijack your brain.
They're kind of like what's theterm, it's like a true you ever
heard of, like spiritualparasites or something like that
(50:33):
.
Why are they called that?
Well, parasites have thisunique ability to control or
send these messages that yourbrain will then produce certain
hormones and neurotransmittersin order to ensure the parasite
survival.
So stress involves increasingcortisol, and an increase in
(50:53):
cortisol is what creates immunedysregulation, and the parasites
and fungi and other microbeswant the immune system to be
distracted.
They want someone waving theflag over here so they can do
their thing, and so part of thatis getting your body into a
sympathetic fight or flightstate so that you produce the
cortisol, your immune systemgoes haywire and it kind of
(51:15):
can't focus on the parasite.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Do they multiply?
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
No way.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Yeah, a ton.
I mean there's been scans ofpeople in third world countries
and their whole body will beinfested with parasites.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Dr Max, let me tell you this fascinating story.
So I, when I was doing mypracticum hours it's 3000 hours
that we have to complete, kindof like your residency right,
very similar I worked in ahomeless population.
It was a shelter and I wasdoing social work with one of my
clients and he just comes upand he's like, hey, you want to
see something cool?
And I was like sure he justcame out of prison.
(51:50):
So he was at the shelter and hehad a cut on his arm and he
literally just went, look, look,look, and he took his arm like
this and white worm just cameout, probably ringworm and I was
just like what is?
this is fascinating to me.
So these things, you guys, they, they do exist oh yeah I don't
think that people are very awareof these.
(52:11):
Well, that's a ringworm.
It's a little different.
But, still, I don't think thatpeople are very aware that
parasites are in the body, andit's in what Pork?
Right, it's in fish.
And then we have to be reallymindful of what we're eating.
So, leading to the nextquestion how can we take care of
our gut?
What are some tips that you cangive the audience, like what
(52:32):
can they do to avoid thesesituations?
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Well, I think you know part of what I do and other
functional medicine people is.
It is part of wellness.
So I think going to see yourfunctional medicine doctor or
holistic doctor that assessesfor these things independent of
the symptoms you experience iswise.
Whether you do that twice ayear or something like that just
(52:55):
to clean yourself out is a goodidea.
There are certain supplementsthat are good for leaky gut, for
healing the lining of the gut.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Can you tell us some of them?
Speaker 1 (53:07):
L-glutamine is one of them.
L-glutamine, l-glutamine, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
What does?
Speaker 1 (53:11):
that do.
It basically just reducesinflammation in the gut, lining
to allow it to heal better.
Same thing with Slippery Elm.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I've heard of that.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Slippery Elm is another one Colostrum, if you've
heard of Colostrum.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I've heard of this brand that everyone's a fan of
on Instagram.
What is it?
A-m-r-a?
It's the cow's, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
It's the first milk production of the cow right
after the calf is born.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Do you believe in that?
Do you think it works?
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Well, no, I mean it's proven to support.
So there's data, oh there'sdata yeah, there's data that it
supports the healing of thesejunctions that have become
porous in the gut lining.
If someone's super sensitive todairy, it may not be good for
them, but you know there's a lotof ways to skin a cat and you
know that's just one of them.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, any other ones in particular you like.
What about for inflammation.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
For inflammation.
I mean you can do turmeric, youcan do resveratrol, you can do
quercetin, you can do a lot ofdifferent things.
For flavonoids, flavanol isreally good Antioxidants
high-dose antioxidants.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
Sorry to cut you off.
I've heard that methylfolatesare amazing for people who are
struggling with autoimmunediseases.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Well, it depends on whether they have a genetic
deficiency in certain aspects.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
So not everybody can take it.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Not everyone needs it , I mean, and methylation is
this whole other ballgame and Idon't do much of methylation
because I find that if you getrid of the stressors, the toxins
, infections, pathogens thatmost people can can methylate
well enough, but there are somepeople who cannot.
And if you do want to assistwith methylation while you heal
(55:01):
someone, can that only help.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, it can only help, but can you tell the
audience what methylation is,cause I know that there's folic
acid and there's methylfolates.
It's a little different, right.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Yeah, so you can.
You can view your body If youopen up like a grandfather's
clock and you see all thesedifferent wheels and trinkets
and they're all.
You turn one of them and theyall kind of move.
If you view that process as thebiochemical cascade of events
that happen in your body inorder to function, in order to
(55:31):
create certain enzymes or tobreak certain things down, or
it's basically the insides ofthe grandfather clock that is
your autonomic, your system thatis processing things, and so
there are certain people theseare all made of methylation
relies on the production ofproteins, and there are certain
(55:51):
people who have genetic markersthat they just miss or do not
methylate, or there are certainparts of this grandfather clock
that aren't working as well.
It could use a little bit ofsupport.
So you know, if you supplementbased on that specific area
that's malfunctioning and again,this is not my area of
expertise- but it's aninteresting conversation, it's
(56:12):
okay.
You can really smooth out thosecogwheels of the grandfather
clock, but for most peoplethat's never an issue.
And then, all of a sudden, youget sick, and now we need to
address methylation.
Well, why don't we address thereason why someone got sick?
Speaker 2 (56:28):
That's my argument.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
That's why I choose not to make methylation my main
thing.
But is it helpful?
Sure, it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
So your thing is attack the gut.
Let's rule out all theenvironmental stressors or all
the body stressors, because then, once that healed, you can
methylate naturally.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yes, yeah, I mean, the chance that someone I can't
help someone because of amethylation issue is low.
I mean, can it happen?
Sure, and you know.
That's why, when I get to thatsix-month point and I think
about, okay, maybe you're one ofthe you know one to 5% of
people where I'm hitting a wall,I'll think about who does
(57:04):
something that I don't do, andmaybe there's a chance that
that's where it's at and I'llthink of someone who does
methylation.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yes, interesting.
My next question for you, drMax, is we are living in a world
where every time you go into agrocery store, the first thing
you see are these supplementaisles.
It's nowhere around, like whenyou walk to Europe.
It's not like this.
You go to a grocery store inEurope, it's not like that.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
But in America, when you walk into a supermarket like
Sprouts, whole Foods, rightthere, supplements.
So we people, you know, I think, that we're all about taking
supplements.
So my question is I went onthis rabbit hole before I got
(57:49):
here how much of supplements canwe take?
Because everyone's reallyinvested in all these
supplements.
You see people taking selenium,this, that, l-theanine, gaba,
blah, blah, blah.
How healthy are thesesupplements to be consuming, all
of them?
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yeah, so there's kind of multiple parts of that.
So for one, how do you knowthat you need that supplement?
Just because the supplement isgood, has been shown to provide
certain benefits.
You don't know that you havesome sort of deficiency that
this supplement is going to fillyou.
Just it just makes you feelgood and so you buy, you know
zinc or whatever, and becauseyou think that, it's going to
(58:20):
help you.
Most of the time.
I mean, I'll sometimes evensave people money because
they'll come see me and I'll say, okay, you don't need to do
these, but you know, ahead andkeep that one, I'm gonna throw
this one in.
So really, a lot of it is justa marketing and it's America,
like there's no one regulatinganything.
You wanna go take all thesesupplements?
You can do it.
(58:40):
The quality of the supplementsthere are certain brands that I
trust.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
What are your favorites?
Speaker 1 (58:50):
I mean I have a lot, but in terms of herbs, supreme
Nutrition is really good.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
Oh yes, dr Charlie's recommends that, right, yeah,
we're all part of the same.
You're a part of the same.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
Actually, Dr Charlie was my chiropractor just before
I was going into school.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Really.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Partly when I was in school.
I found you through him by theway, yeah, so yeah, there's a
community of the chiropractorsthat kind of do the same stuff
yeah.
So Supreme Nutrition is apopular one.
I like Thorne.
Yes, thorne, pureEncapsulations is good.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I'm a fan of Metagenics too.
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Metagenics is good.
There's some people listen.
There's going to be no broadagreement across this, even in
this.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
I should have been a chiropractor, Dr Max.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
No, you know a lot.
I mean, yeah, I should havebeen because I'm fascinated.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
I mean, I read a lot, I research a lot.
That's why, thus being thereason, we're doing this show.
I mean it's fascinating becauseI believe in what you're doing.
I do.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
I appreciate that.
I mean you don't need to.
That's kind of.
The beauty of social media is alot of these, especially moms,
because they want the best fortheir kids.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
Moms are the chiropractors.
I'm like these moms areimpressive.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
They know a lot yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
I mean for the past, I think 10 years a lot of moms,
a lot of dads too, people ingeneral.
They're waking up more andthey're realizing that they have
alternatives.
They don't have to just rely onWestern medicine.
You don't always have to takethese medicines to make you feel
better.
You know there's other optionsand it's always good to have
doctors like you to give usthose other options.
(01:00:22):
So I'm really grateful that wehad this conversation today.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
And honestly I'll just throw out there real quick
you know I've noticed a hugeleap of interest since COVID,
because I think COVID reallywoke a lot of people up when the
government wasn't talking atall about the benefits of
vitamin D and you know all theseother types of things
Ivermectin, right, exactly, andso a lot of people.
Half of it was just that wewere being gaslit.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
We were.
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yeah, and the other half is just in general distrust
of institutions, whether it'sfor that person's good or not.
More people have are becomingdistrustful and are interested
in what it is that vitalismoffers.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
I agree with you and I'm so.
Aren't you happy that peopleare more awake now?
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah, it's, it's wild .
I mean, it really has blown upin the last few years.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I know.
Well, this was awesome.
Thank you so much.
I think I've learned so muchfrom you and I think obviously
the audience has too, and thankyou, thank you for joining me
today.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Thank you so much for having me © BF-WATCH TV 2021.
When are we going to hit that point where the
threshold for your body to needto express disease it's come
under that threshold?
We don't know where that isbecause it's different for every
person, and so when you'redoing holistic medicine, it's a
long game and it's also let'ssee and let's play by ear.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Every medicine has a side effect and to heal one
thing, there's always anotherthing.
So there's so many people outthere that are stuck on these
meds and it's endless.
And it's so sad to see peoplestruggling like that.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yes, we do help people that are sick, but you're
going to do yourself a favor ifyou just work with someone in
vitalism and functional medicineeven before you get sick, just
for wellness.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
When a woman is pregnant, they don't recommend
eating sushi which holds mercuryor any type of fish.
But when the child is born,it's okay to shoot mercury into
the brain of the child.
So I get the rabbit hole.
But these are some of thequestions that arise among
people and it's questionable.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
On the first stroke of petting the cat backwards
it'll kind of like look at you.
You know I don't like whatyou're doing.
I'm warning you.
The second one it might get upa little bit.
And the third one it might getup a little bit.
And the third one it might biteyou.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hello everyone.
Today's episode was veryinteresting.
I had on a gut doctor.
His name is Dr Max Dula,licensed chiropractor and also
health and gut physician in theLos Angeles area.
I wanted to do this segment ongut health because I myself have
been noticing an intense spikein autoimmune diseases and
(01:35):
chronic illnesses amongst men,women and, yes, children.
So I wanted to have on achiropractor who practices
holistic medicine to attackleaky gut and inflammation.
Today's topic was what is thedirect correlation between a
leaky gut and inflammation, andhis answers were actually quite
(01:55):
interesting and very educational.
We talked about heavy metals inthe body, lead in the body,
mold, parasites, and what he hadto say about parasites and mold
were fascinating.
There's a high chance that manypeople that are experiencing
autoimmune diseases and chronicillnesses are coming from
(02:15):
gut-related issues, and hisapproach is attacking the gut
first, because we all have aleaky gut that we need to take
care of and nurture.
So he teaches us how to do it.
We talk about supplements andhow we're overloading on
supplements that we don't need,where we just really need to
take a more holistic approachversus institutionalized
(02:37):
approach.
I think this episode isdefinitely keep you interested
and going to have you intriguedand, most importantly, I
genuinely wanted you guys tolearn the difference and the
correlation between your brainand your gut, because,
essentially, your first brain isyour gut and Dr Max explains
that today eloquently.
(02:58):
Enjoy this episode and makesure to subscribe to the channel
.
Thank you guys for joining me,supporting me and enjoy this
episode.
Dr Max, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Absolutely.
It's an honor.
I've been an avid fan.
I have to say.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
As I have you.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Thank you, and I've been following your work on gut
health for some time now and Ihave to say I'm fascinated
because I don't think that a lotof people know that the first
brain is our gut.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
It's blowing up.
Gut health is blowing up.
I feel it's becoming the newthing.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Absolutely, and I'm happy that we get to talk about
it today and educate ouraudience of why it's so
important to take care of ourgut.
So maybe you can start kind ofteaching us what is the brain
and gut correlation.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Oh well, there's a lot.
I think most people, when theythink of the gut-brain
connection, they think of thevagus nerve.
Just by the fact the vagusnerve is a cranial nerve and it
innervates a lot of organs thatregulate our autonomic nervous
system, which is part of thenervous system that we don't
consciously control, systemwhich is part of the nervous
(04:07):
system that we don't consciouslycontrol, and it goes all the
way down to the proximal orbeginning two-thirds of the
large intestine.
So your esophagus, your stomach, your small intestine, your
large intestine, all of that isregulated in part by the vagus
nerve, which stems from thebrain.
But there's a lot more to that.
Scientists are finding and I'mnot a scientist, I'm a clinician
, but from what I'm reading,there's a lot more to that in
(04:31):
terms of the microbiome itselfand the chemicals and cellular
signaling and metabolites thatessentially send signals back to
the brain on how to regulatethe enteric nervous system,
which is the gut.
So the gut and the brain.
They communicate back and forthnot just through the nervous
system but also chemical andcellular signaling.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
That's fascinating to me.
This is actually wild, but Ihave heard so many clinicians
psychiatrists heal depressionwith their patients from just
attacking the gut.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Oh, are they doing that now?
Yes, oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
It's fascinating, stepping on my turf Literally,
and it's crazy because it worksthat they've healed.
I've read so many articles onthis that depression can be
healed from the gut.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sometimes it's like a gut issue there.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Absolutely.
I mean up to 80 to 90% of ourserotonin is produced in our gut
.
And this is you, a while beforethere's any kind of defined
mechanism that can beinstitutionalized and prescribed
.
But they're starting to findout that it's a little bit more
(05:53):
than just a brain thing, it's agut thing.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's a gut thing.
When do you think this gutthing was discovered?
Is it recently, like new, orhas it been around for?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
I mean, you know, Hippocrates is believed to have
said that all diseases begin inthe gut.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
So I mean when did it start?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You know he see the granddaddy of it all.
I don't know, you know.
But certainly on the holisticside of things there is long,
you know, holistic medicine.
Naturopaths, chiropractors,people that approach health and
wellness from a systems approachas opposed to a divided and
(06:31):
segregated mechanistic approach,have always understood that
things interplay with oneanother.
How much they can debate aboutthe gut-brain connection in the
year 1900, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
That's so interesting to me that you so tell me the
you're a chiropractor, right.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Licensed chiropractor .
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Licensed chiropractor absolutely, and so I'm noticing
that a lot of chiropractorslike yourself, they're
practicing holistic medicine.
Now, why did you get intoholistic medicine?
Speaker 1 (06:59):
So I actually had my own health issues growing up.
I got diagnosed with Crohn'sdisease when I was 13.
And then I had otherinflammatory and autoimmune
conditions pop up, 19.
And I was still functional.
But after college I actuallywent to work on Wall Street and
when I was there things reallyhit the fan and I went on
(07:22):
disability at age 24 with allkinds of probably like a list of
30 things that would send me to30 different kinds of doctors
and institutionalized medicine,and I just knew that there's no
way.
This, there was no relationshipbetween all these things.
And so, you know, thingsweren't working out and I
started becoming a patient ofpeople in vitalism and some of
(07:43):
these people were chiropractorsand some were naturopaths and I
decided that in order to savemyself, I had to become active
in my own healing, and I didn'twant to be on the passive end of
things.
And so I went back to schooland I said you know, if I can
heal myself and then help othersheal, I think that would be
pretty fulfilling.
So that's how I ended up goingto chiropractic school.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's amazing.
So do they teach you holistichealth in chiropractic school?
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Well, the meat of chiropractic school is going to
be 90% the same of any otherkind of healthcare profession
medicine, physical therapy nursenurse practitioner, because the
goal is mostly to pass boards.
But the remaining 10% isclinical In chiropractic school.
The heavy majority of it is onthe musculoskeletal system.
(08:32):
It just so happens that thereis no institution of functional
medicine or systems-based healthcare.
Even naturopathic school oftenis very much based on.
You have this condition andthis is the evidence for this
herb that can help thiscondition.
But that's still not getting tothe root that much, which is
(08:52):
what is the etiology, what isthe cause, the origin of these
conditions and what are thesystems in interplay.
So a lot of some not a lot somechiropractors will gravitate
towards that kind of thing,maybe because they knew a
chiropractor who was doing thiskind of stuff.
That that's like me.
And then there's naturopathswho do the same.
So it could be a naturopathchiropractor, osteopathic
(09:13):
physician if they didn't go intoinstitutionalized medicine.
But really there is noinstitution that owns holistic
medicine.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
This leads to my next question is where does
institutional medicine fallshort?
This leads to my next questionis where does institutional
medicine fall?
Speaker 1 (09:26):
short.
Well okay, so where to begin?
So there's pluses and minuses.
I mean I'm glad thatinstitutionalized medicine
exists, especially for acutecare.
I mean, if I have an acuteinfection or I break my leg, I
don't want to go see a licensedchiropractor or a naturopath.
This is something serious.
And so emergency care and acutecare is really well developed in
(09:49):
institutionalized medicine andthat's actually how it
originated.
Is institutionalized medicinereally came from?
During the Civil War?
Okay, so you know about this.
So you know a lot of physiciansbegan doing surgery and acute
care and there'd be, you know,medics on the field, and so
that's really the foundation ofinstitutionalized medicine.
When it comes to chronicillness or chronic diseases,
(10:12):
institutionalized medicine hasmore of an approach of managing
illness as opposed to reversingand promoting healing.
So if someone has IBS orconstipation or Crohn's, they
might be given drugs in order toforcefully cause motility of
the gut, or they might giveimmunosuppressive drugs for
(10:37):
Crohn's disease.
But what happens in theseindividuals is they tend to get
problems elsewhere, because theroot cause and if you look at
the research, the chances whereyou have one autoimmune disease
that you're going to haveanother is just huge, it is huge
.
And it's because the root causeof what causes autoimmunity is
never addressed and so they justkeep going on these autoimmune,
immunosuppressive drugs.
(10:58):
But they really their sicknessis just being managed, and
that's where the phrase sickcare comes from, and that
institutionalized medicine, whenit comes to chronic illness, is
more about sick care, nothealthcare.
But that's just a semantics,like you know playground type,
you know Big pharma, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
So Big pharma and it's so unfortunate, because I
do have to agree with you thatevery medicine has a side effect
, and to heal one thing, there'salways another thing.
So Every medicine has a sideeffect, and to heal one thing,
there's always another thing.
So there's so many people outthere that are stuck on these
meds and it's endless.
And it's so sad to see peoplestruggling like that.
Where the cure there's otheranswers, there's alternative,
(11:36):
but people don't know thealternative.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, we don't grow up.
Society has decided tocommunicate that what you do is
you wake up, you have yourcereal, you eat your Wheaties
and if you get sick you go seeyour medical doctor.
The survivability of holisticmedicine has purely been off
word of mouth and demand, andthat wouldn't be around if it
wasn't for results.
So I didn't grow up wanting tobe a chiropractor or even
(12:06):
knowing what vitalistic medicineis.
It was my own experience andhow institutionalized medicine
couldn't serve me with chronicillness that I fell into it.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
And that's what happens with a lot of people and
what the interesting thingabout that is that we have
leaned on the government to keepus alive, and that's so
unfortunate.
We have so much faith in themwhere you know there's again.
There's so many otheralternatives.
But this is my next questionwhat are the most common causes
of chronic illnesses that you'veseen?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So obviously you know I have a bias of being of
working on the gut, but I thinkit's fair to say that 90 to 95%
of people, whatever theircondition is whether it's
primarily a gut-relatedcondition or their experience is
a symptom thyroid, headache,fatigue and they may not have
any gut issues that if Iapproach wellness, looking for
(12:53):
hidden infections, toxins andapproaching through the gut, I
get about a 90% to 95% rate ofreversing disease in individuals
.
So really it just goes back towhat is the cause of disease.
The cause of disease is theinability to adapt to stressors.
(13:14):
What are stressors?
These are hidden infections andtoxins Environmental,
environmental toxins, alsoemotions.
What does that cause?
It causes inflammation andinflammation is what leads to
the illness experience that youhave, because you can find
healthy people and you can findthese toxins and infections.
They don't have the experience.
(13:34):
They're likely not experiencingthe inflammatory response or
immune dysregulation that thesick people are.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Since you brought up autoimmune diseases.
Do you, as a professionalclinician, do you feel that
thyroid, since so many women andmen are being diagnosed with
Hashimoto's disease, graves'disease?
Are these diseases caused byleaky gut?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, so there is research and you know, from a
clinical standpoint I do seecorrelation between increased
intestinal permeability, orleaky gut, and autoimmunity of
the thyroid, and the majorbelief is so, in leaky gut
there's a permeable membranebetween the blood and your gut,
(14:20):
where the gut will absorbnutrients.
But when there is inflammationin the gut, this membrane, which
has what's called tightjunctions, becomes disrupted and
porous, and so things thatshouldn't enter the bloodstream,
such as food, protein particles, certain toxic elements, that-.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So it's these environmental or et cetera,
these stressors are entering inthe gut and causing this?
Yes, is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, so, whatever you know the, you know our mouth
and our butt is the only thingthat reaches the outside world
you know from either end.
And so you know, when we consumethese things and we have our
own microbiome, we want to keepit separate from the rest of our
body, especially thecirculatory system, where
inflammation, the immuneresponse, will occur.
So when these things passthrough the gut blood barrier,
(15:12):
there is an immune response andspecifically with thyroid, it's
thought to believe that theirimmune system it's called
molecular mimicry the immunesystem mistakes the gluten
protein for thyroid hormone, andso when there is an immune
response against the glutenprotein, if there is molecular
(15:33):
mimicry, the immune system canactually attack the thyroid
gland.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Wow, yeah, that's a lot.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
It's a lot and it's more than that too.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Can you tell us the more?
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, let me just take a step.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yes, please.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
The more is also epigenetics and genetic
expression.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I'm so fascinated with epigenetics.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Because really, unless you're born with a
genetic condition, a lot ofthings that come later is
through some sort of triggerthat causes genetic expression
of disease symptoms, and sothere are certain genes and
genetic sequences that leavepeople more inclined, or they
(16:18):
might be more at risk, todevelop things like Crohn's
disease or things likeHashimoto's.
But it requires a trigger andactually if you Google any
autoimmune disease and you'llsee what are the causes, on
almost all of them you're goingto find infection or trauma of
some kind and then you're goingto get a bunch of other things.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Oh, the body keeps score.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
So that triggering aspect is what that inflammatory
aspect is.
What can cause these genes tobegin to express, develop their
own proteins?
A lot of the times in the formsof antigens attacking your own
body.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
So what you're saying is people are genetically
predisposed.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
We all are yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Like schizophrenia.
You might have the gene, butit's not activated.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yes.
You know until something happensand it's activated and that's
it.
So it's the same concept andthat's why I encourage people
that this truly is wellness care, because you may not even be at
the point of expression, but Ican dive into your gut, figure
out what is out of balance thereand I can take care of those
things before these triggers gooff.
(17:18):
And so really it is a wellnesscare agenda.
Yes, we do help people that aresick, but you're going to do
yourself a favor if you justwork with someone in vitalism
and functional medicine evenbefore you get sick, just for
wellness, because in Westernmedicine, wellness care falls
short.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Once you get sick.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
They're there for you because you know that's
incentive.
Yeah, and it's not the doctor'sfault, it's just the system
that they got put in.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Sometimes it can be.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Well.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
I mean, you already know my personality and what I
bring to the platform.
Let's be real here.
Not all doctors are that honest.
Oh, of course not, and so it'sthe unfortunate piece.
But that's why I want everybodyto know about you, because it's
just a different approach andit's a more honest approach and
more, you know, holisticapproach, which I know that my
audience loves that.
(18:09):
So, dr Max, tell us, why do youfocus on the gut?
Yes, we know that it heals andthere's all these great things,
but why particularly the gut?
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, so partly from my personal experience, but also
, you know some people when theygo to see a functional medicine
doctor, they'll run like $2,000worth of labs and they'll look
from everything into hormones,they'll look into nutrient
deficiencies, malabsorption, allthese kinds of things, things
that are are useful to know.
(18:41):
But what is the heaviest hitter?
What is the thing that if youfocus on, you're gonna have an
80% batting average and thenokay, if that doesn't work out,
at least you took care of that,now let's do some more labs.
So almost every functionalmedicine practitioner, even the
people that aren't focused onthe gut, are gonna do some sort
of gut assessment.
(19:02):
I just go into it a lot deeperbecause of my personal
experiences.
I know more than what was justtaught in functional medicine.
I can guide people throughWestern medicine and if I want
something from a medical doctor,I can almost tell the patient
what to say in order to sort ofgoad that medical doctor to help
us out.
So the reason why I focusaround the gut is, one, because
(19:25):
it's a heavy hitter.
Two, it's so prevalent.
And three, this is an areawhere I really feel I can help
patients be co-managed withinstitutionalized medicine.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That's amazing.
So tell us, how do you assessthe gut?
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So there's different labs.
When I'm doing remote work, Ilike to use GI map.
It's probably the most commonlab test run on people, so it's
a blood work.
It's a stool test.
It's a stool test.
It's called quantitative PCR,so it checks for DNA patterns of
microbes in your stool and ifthere's DNA found, it's
(20:04):
suggestive that these types ofmicrobes exist in your gut.
And on top of that I'll also dofood sensitivity testing If you
might be producing antibodiesagainst certain foods.
And the whole goal of that isto.
When we're treating, we alsowant to simultaneously reduce
inflammation, becauseinflammation can prevent healing
(20:27):
from taking place.
We're either in a catabolicstate or an anabolic state.
So while I'm treating peoplefor whatever infections they
have or whatever is showing upin their gut lab, we also want
to make sure that they are notcausing inflammation further.
That's going to be having uskind of swim upstream.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Dr Max, what is cannabolic and anabolic?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Anabolic is more of a healing type phase, when you
know, whenever you lift weightsor you're building muscle,
you're entering to a stage of ananabolic state, like with, I
mean, steroids is an easyexample Anabolic steroids those
things build tissue.
And then there's catabolicsteroids, such as if you were to
take an epidural for some sortof or prednisone that can
(21:14):
actually break down tissues.
So it's for the goal ofreducing pain, but we want the
body to be in an anabolic state,not a catabolic state.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Got it, at least for healing.
Okay, so you get the testresults, and what is something
common that you see?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Almost everyone will have something.
What's?
Speaker 2 (21:34):
that something.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, so it'll assess for bacteria, viruses,
parasites, fungi and yeast, andit'll also check for markers of
inflammation, whether there'sblood in the stool, whether the
pancreas is producing enoughenzymes to break down food.
So it's in terms of bang foryour buck, it's.
(21:55):
It's a really good test.
Uh, it doesn't test foreverything you know, but, um, if
you find something on there,it's a good place to start.
So, in terms of bacteria,there's pathogenic bacteria,
which pathogenic means that evena healthy person can get sick
by this kind of pathogen.
And then there's alsoopportunistic bacteria, which a
(22:15):
lot of the times, a healthyperson would not get sick from,
and in many cases these type ofbacteria already live within us.
But if we lack the beneficialbacteria, then these
opportunistic bacteria canoutnumber the beneficial
bacteria and then cause symptoms.
So it's not just looking aboutwhat you caught, for example,
(22:36):
but literally the harmoniousbalance between beneficial
bacteria and harmful bacterialike opportunistic bacteria.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
So then, the goal for you, as a clinician, is to
clean the gut.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Pretty much.
It's not just removinginfections.
I'll also do heavy metals tests.
It's another common thing I'lldo.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
How about lead?
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Well, that's part of the heavy metals test.
So you know, lead, mercury,those are probably two of the
most.
Aluminum are probably three ofthe most common heavy metals
that I'll see, but it can also.
It's another one of thosethings where, similar to the
food panel, it's going to becausing inflammation, and so we
want to do a heavy metal detoxwhile we're working on your gut
(23:19):
as well.
Really, those are like the fabthree you know, in terms of
getting rid and helping the 90to 95% of people.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Do you work with kids also?
Because half the kids arevaccinated and they've got all
that heavy metal and thatmercury and yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
So I do work with kids while their mom or dad is
there and a lot of times withthe kids we will do some sort of
heavy metal detox or we'regonna look if there's any immune
dysregulation or autoimmunityand we're just gonna do the same
thing just at smaller doses.
And it's not a bad idea, afteryou get vaccinated to get
assessed because, just like ifyou catch an illness, the point
(23:59):
of a vaccination is to cause animmune response.
I mean that's why they add allthese, you know, things like
aluminum and stuff in there isbecause they want to cause an
immune response.
But sometimes that immuneresponse doesn't come down as
easily as in other kids orpeople in general.
And it can go on and on and onand it could be a little tricky
to figure out.
What is it that is causing this?
(24:20):
But really it's hard to say.
There's no conclusive evidencethat it was the vaccine and I
don't care what it is.
I'm just going to find what I'mlooking for and I'm going to
clear that out.
That's why I say I don't treatcondition X Y Z.
I just remove the interferencefrom the individual and give the
body the ability to heal.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
That's beautiful.
So then, now that we know thatthese types of results that you
get, these can cause a leaky gut, correct?
My question is what is theleaky gut and what kind of
health issues can it lead to?
So, yes, these things do causehealth dilemmas, but what kind
of health dilemmas?
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Autoimmunity is a big one.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Is a big one.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
There's a belief that because when these particles
cross into the blood it createsan immune response and blood is
systemic I mean it contacts alltypes of organs and so you can
get accumulation of toxins andall kinds of organs and the
immune system might mistakenlybelieve that there's an issue
with the organ versus somethingthat's in the organ.
(25:26):
That's why, if you do look upany autoimmune condition, you'll
see some kind of infectioninvolved.
It's just the immune system gottricked or it's a little
haywire or messy, and soautoimmune conditions, chronic
fatigue syndrome, chronic pain.
I've had people come see methat maybe they've had surgery,
people who say that they havefibromyalgia, things like that,
(25:49):
and a lot of it really comesback to the gut, because one of
the key sources of inflammation,systemic inflammation, is
coming from the leaky gut.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Dr Max, what is the correlation between the leaky
gut and inflammation, or isthere not?
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Oh, there's a hundred percent correlation.
I don't know that you can haveleaky gut.
Well, leaky gut is kind of afunky diagnosis, because our gut
is supposed to be leaky to anextent in that we absorb
nutrition.
That's why Western medicinehasn't been able to really
clearly define what that is,because it's on a spectrum.
But just as the gut becomesmore porous, there's things that
(26:27):
are gonna be able to pass thatis supposed to be waste, and
waste is toxic, and so it'spassing in your bloodstream.
The immune system knows that'snot supposed to be there, and so
it's passing in yourbloodstream.
The immune system knows that'snot supposed to be there, and so
there's going to be aninflammatory response.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So that's the wow.
I just got the image of thatand that's gnarly, by the way.
Thank you for that.
So that's the idea of the leakygut, so it's waste leaking into
your bloodstream.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, or what's meant to be waste, a part of waste,
what's?
Speaker 2 (26:53):
that.
So that's the inflammation,though.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
That is gonna cause the inflammation.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So people have joint pain, god knows what else.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
The list is growing.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
What do you see that's most common?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Autoimmune conditions , chronic pain, multiple
chemical sensitivity.
Multiple chemical sensitivity,so multiple chemical sensitivity
people chemical sensitivityyeah, so multiple chemical
sensitivity.
People who are sensitive to,you know, bleach or other.
So skin sensitivity, not justskin, or like body response Body
response they can enter, theycreate an immune response and
(27:26):
they can get headaches or dizzyor fatigued.
Sometimes people get knockedout.
They can't handle walking downthe laundry detergent aisle in
stores.
I remember in my worst time Icouldn't go into a bathroom if
it was clean within the last daybecause the bleach would just
kill me.
And it's not just that itsmells bad, it's that it hits
you like your whole body.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Right, it affects everything.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, so that's a big one.
A lot of these are sort ofsyndrome-esque type conditions
like irritable bowel syndrome,chronic fatigue syndrome,
fibromyalgia doesn't have theword syndrome in it, but the
point being is there's no cleardefinition of what is the cause
of these conditions.
There's many roads to Rome.
(28:10):
People can have a similarexperience, but the individual
causative factors can bedifferent from one person than
another.
That's why I don't.
That's why Western medicine,when they treat with drugs,
they're only trying to improvethe function of the person.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
It's a band-aid.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
It's a band-aid type approach, but because there's so
many contributing factors andit's not clear that this caused
this and X caused Y and Y causedZ.
And that's whatinstitutionalized medicine needs
in their research in order todevelop something that's
standardized.
And that is the plus and theminus of functional medicine or
(28:45):
holistic medicine.
The plus is that it's notstandardized in the sense that
if someone's not able to helpyou, there might be someone else
who can.
But it can also be a negative,because a lot of people are
doing things that other peoplearen't doing, and so that
communication is going to bedifficult from one provider to
another.
So standardization occurs inany kind of institution,
(29:08):
including medicine.
It provides a benefit.
A urologist is a urologist is aurologist and functional
medicine.
Just if you call yourself afunctional medicine doctor
doesn't mean that you could talkthe same language as another
functional medicine doctor.
I mean there might be overlap,but there is a lack of
standardization.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
What are you seeing more from the women and what are
you seeing more from the men?
Women, I tend Causation.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Oh well, okay, so the causation all comes down to
toxins, infections and youremotional well-being.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
So same thing.
Mostly it goes back to that.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
There are some genetic predispositions, but for
the most part that can bereversed.
Unless you're talking aboutsomething like celiacs.
Like if someone comes to me andthey have celiac disease, like,
listen, I can remove all theinterference stressors that you
have, but you're always going toreact to gluten.
But the way I kind of describethis is you ever pet a cat
(30:02):
backwards.
The cat doesn't like that right, I hate cats.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
No, I haven't, so you've never done that.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
No, Okay, I used to have a cat, so when I was a kid,
to annoy my cat I would wearthis heavy jacket.
So if it bit me it wouldn't doanything to me and I would just
pet my cat backwards.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
That would irritate him.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
The cat hates.
Oh yeah, they got to be keptnice and clean.
But on the first stroke ofpetting the cat backwards it'll
kind of like look at you, youknow I don't like what you're
doing.
I'm warning you.
The second one, it might get upa little bit.
And the third one, it mightbite you.
One, it might bite you.
Okay, some people their immunedysregulation is at the point
where all it takes is justpoking that cat and the immune
response is going to cause thesymptom experience.
That's something like celiacs,other things where the genetic
(30:45):
predisposition isn't as strongand the immune response isn't as
sensitive Crohn's, otherautoimmune conditions,
rheumatoid arthritis.
We might be able to get you tothe point where, yeah, you can
start eating these foods again.
Or, yes, you can go to somepart of the place that has toxic
things around you and you'renot going to enter the symptom
(31:05):
experience.
But if you do it over and overand over again, you will get to
that point where you get illagain.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
So then, now that we've talked about all the
causes and what's reallyhappening, then how do we fix?
Fix is a not the best word.
For a lack of better word, I'mjust going to use fix.
How do we attack inflammation?
What do we do?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, no, it's so hard because and you know I
don't claim to have all theanswers because, first of all,
we live in a world where there'sstressors all around us that
contribute to inflammation.
It's just impossible to keepaway from it all.
But a few tips, yeah, a fewtips Not eating processed foods.
(31:45):
Okay, let's start with foodsNot eating processed foods, not
eating too much sugar and noteating refined grains.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So like 98% of our food is that Most food.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, that's probably the toughest part, to be honest
.
It is Making sure that yourhome or your workspace doesn't
have mold is a big one.
We spend a lot more timeindoors than our ancestors have.
Maybe they used to workoutdoors.
But also the way buildings arebuilt there's a lot more rooms
for dry, damp areas, and so moldis more capable of growing in
(32:24):
places that historically.
But the thing is, I don't wantto scare anybody because a lot
of influencers out there theypost all these things and it can
really be scary.
I mean, and I get it becausethey're trying to sell a service
or they're trying to get peopleinto a mindset.
But listen, there are peopleout there who live.
Probably there's mold that theyencounter.
(32:47):
Humans have always been aroundmold.
There's always been.
There's people who eat pizzaand whatever, and you know
they're doing fine.
And so if you get into a fearstate, that fear state is going
to create neurologicalhypervigilance or sympathetic,
which which can get you sick.
And so I I actually have like amoral quandary, like every time
(33:09):
I post, I'm like, oh my God, amI, am I creating anxiety?
Am I creating?
Yeah, and and that you know thefear state and you know, I'm
sure you know all about this butreally feeling that you are
going to be OK and that if youthink the world is dangerous,
that's tough.
And so whenever I work withsomeone, I say you, you've got
to be approaching your, you'vegot to approach your emotional,
(33:32):
you've got to build emotionalresilience just as much as you
build physical resilience.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Absolutely.
I agree with you on that piecethat stressors cause more damage
.
Why don't medical doctors treatleaky gut?
Tell me that.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Because the AMA hasn't provided a standardized
protocol for it, but they knowit, don't you think?
I think that most well.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
it depends how much 100 years in med school.
Well, I don't know how to treata leaky gut.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
I don't know that they teach leaky gut in med
school.
No, no, I mean, I think theyunderstand the concept of
intestinal permeability,probably just from the fact that
if they attend conferencesoutside of med school of ongoing
research, but in terms of justwhat's in med school, it's not a
big part because it's not adiagnosis that is being treated
in institutionalized medicine.
So there's going to be somedoctors more of them know it now
because it's not that newanymore.
(34:25):
It was 10 years ago.
Maybe a bunch didn't know aboutit, but really you got to use
your own time and do your ownhomework to learn about things
like leaky gut.
It's not going to be taught aspart of med school.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
So then this leads to my next question of what are
the downsides of holisticmedicine then?
Speaker 1 (34:43):
The downsides are kind of what we touched on
earlier is that there is nostandardization.
So if someone doesn't get youbetter, you could spend years
jumping from person to personand you don't know if that new
person that you're seeing hassome skill set that can help you
that the previous person didn't.
(35:04):
Maybe they don't.
That's also the plus in thathope is not lost, but it's also
the downside in that this can goon in perpetuity.
So the lack of standardizationthere is a downside to that.
The other downside is, you know,there is no oversight on
holistic medicine.
This is partly of why I can dowhat I do.
(35:24):
If you try to go to a medicaldoctor and you say, hey, I want
to address the toxins, theinfections and, you know, heal
my gut, they can't even do it,even if they agree with you,
because they are under theumbrella of the AMA and if they
do not run course, if they donot run protocol with what
they're supposed to do, they'repersonally held liable.
So it even extends beyond theinstitution.
(35:46):
The individuals can personallybe at risk in institutionalized
medicine, but with holisticmedicine there's no guarantees.
With institutionalized medicineyou can bet that if you take
this drug, you know for a fact90% of people are going to
respond this way.
10% of people are going torespond this way.
With holistic medicine, it'sreally let's see, let's see what
(36:07):
happens, and when are we goingto hit that point where the
threshold for your body to needto express disease it's come
under that threshold.
We don't know where that isbecause it's different for every
person, and so when you'redoing holistic medicine, it's a
long game and it's also let'ssee and let's play by ear.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And honestly, I think that this is why people
gravitate more towards Westernmedicine, because it's instant
gratification.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
It is.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Holistic medicine takes time.
It's not cheap because it's notcovered by insurance.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So a lot of these things are done with cash and
people don't have the time, theydon't have the patience.
What advice can you givesomeone who wants to have
holistic healing and wants toheal their gut but can't really?
They just want that instantgratification Like, I want it
now.
I need it now type of healing.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Well, I think, first of all, you're going to have to
deal with the fact you're goingto have to arrive at a point
where you can feel, okay, thatthere is not going to be instant
gratification because itdoesn't exist in holistic
medicine, and so that's someself-work that you're gonna have
to do.
You're gonna have to go intoyourself and ask yourself what's
the part of me that isdemanding this instant
(37:19):
gratification and what's so badabout not having that instant
gratification?
Is it that I lose hope?
Is it that I lose trust andbelief?
Okay, why would I lose thattrust and belief?
Where is that coming from?
So that's going to be theself-work, and that's why so
many people just can't do it,because they have these parts
within their philosophicalframework of what they want and
(37:42):
desire, that they don't have thepatience and they just, you
know they can't go through thatroad.
But certain people do, honestly,mostly women.
You know women are the bestpatients.
I mean, they are.
You know they will do the diets, they, they will, they will go,
they will do the long haul.
You know men tend to want that.
They don't have the patience.
(38:02):
They want that instantgratification.
Generalizing here, not noteveryone, but certainly, yeah,
having that commitment to theframework and understanding what
this is and what it is not isabsolutely necessary, because it
is a long haul game.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
It is Now, dr Max.
I understand that there is ahigh rates of autoimmune
diseases among women.
Now how long does it usuallytake let's just say thyroid for
a minute how long does it taketo heal a leaky gut or
inflammation that's causingthyroid dilemmas in women?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
It ranges from person to person depending.
A lot of it can't be predicted,but someone might just have
parasitic infection and nothingelse shows up.
They're fine with heavy metals,they're fine with bacteria,
they're already on a clean dietand so, okay, let's just take
care of you, know this parasiticinfection, and let's give you
(38:57):
things in order to restore yourgut microbiota and heal the
lining of the gut.
That might not take very muchtime.
But some people, they have alot of things that show up and
not everything can be attackedat once, because your ability to
heal also requires energy.
And so if you throw a ton ofthings at someone and they may
(39:20):
not actually have theconstitution to heal and utilize
everything you're throwing atthem, and then there's the risk
of saying, okay, well, thisdoesn't work, I don't know what
to do.
So you really have to decide.
Okay, what do I want to attackfirst?
What are the phases that I wantto go through?
But I would say you know, onaverage, when I, when people
work with me, I say give me sixmonths, you know, in six months
(39:41):
either I can get you better orI'll know exactly how much more
time it's going to take, or I'llknow if I cannot and if I need
to refer you out to someone elsewho does something that I'm not
as good at, but six months isreally a good amount of time and
some people it takes as littleas three months.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
And what are some of the results that you get from
women.
Let's just say again, goingback to thyroid, because this is
huge, so many women are in this, and men too.
I don't want to just keep it onwomen, but when do you, when
you detox the body andeverything is okay do they feel
a difference?
Is this truly curable withoutmedicine?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
Well, I don't like to use the word cure because there
is no cure, but it's all aboutreducing the need for expression
there is no cure for thyroid.
Well, you can take medication tomanage the expression of
autoimmunity, but your body willalways be coded.
The blueprint will be there toproduce the antigens in
(40:42):
autoimmune disease.
But can we remove the reasonswhy the expression or production
of antibodies exist?
And that comes back toinflammation.
What's the cause ofinflammation?
Toxins, infections andemotional stress.
So you can either take the drugto artificially suppress the
immune system so that thethyroid doesn't get attacked, or
(41:02):
you can actually try to addressthe root causes.
But to answer your question,all kinds of things get better
in people.
They come in with a primarycomplaint.
They can live with the second,the third and the fourth, the
fifth and the 10th and the 11th.
Okay, they're there, but whatthey find is that a lot of
things get better, things thatthey didn't even originally come
to see me for.
Because that's just how healthworks.
(41:25):
It is a systems-based approach.
It doesn't just work where onething is getting better at a
time.
Unless you go thepharmaceutical, western type
route, then you really are.
It is one symptom at a time.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Dr Max, let's talk about some of the symptoms that
an individual might experienceif they have heavy metals in the
body and or parasite.
And so I mean, what are somethings that cause?
There's people out there thatare feeling something, but
they're not conscious and awareof it.
They know something's off.
So what can we teach them?
Like how, what are some ofthese symptoms?
Speaker 1 (42:00):
A lot of them overlap I'll just put that out there
from the beginning is thatsomeone can't come with a
symptom and I can with 100%conviction know what it is
that's causing that symptom.
That's why I do run the labsand if there are no heavy metals
and there are parasites, then Icould be a little more
confident that it's likely theparasites.
(42:20):
But if there's both, I stilldon't know which one it is.
I just know that we have toaddress both reasons, but what
they can cause heavy metals, forexample, a lot of neurological
and cognitive.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Can we talk about them?
Sure the talk about which whichpart the neurological dilemmas
that it causes.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
Yeah.
So difficulty concentrating,brain fog, chronic fatigue,
anxiety in children, especiallyif you're pregnant, it can cause
neurological development issues.
I mean, this is where thetheory behind the vaccines come
from.
(42:58):
Is, you know and I'm not takinga position either way because I
don't have the absoluteconfidence but I can just tell
you what the theory is.
The theory of the people whoclaim that vaccines cause autism
and things like that is that asbabies or in the womb, or even
up until the age of two, theblood brain barrier, which has
(43:19):
the same tight junctions as thegut, hasn't fully solidified yet
.
And so when you are injectingsomething into a kid, or the mom
is exposed to lead in abuilding, for example, and she's
sharing the blood with the baby, that these chemicals and
metals can move into the brainand cause inflammation in the
(43:40):
brain.
And so one of the theories isthat what's included in these
vaccines are going into thebrain and causing inflammation
in the prefrontal cortex, whichis a large part of believed to
be where the dysregulation ofautism takes place.
So you know, whether or notthat's conclusively I don't know
, but it's certainly somethingto think about and do your own
(44:05):
risk assessment on all thatstuff.
And unfortunately, we don'thave all the data that we need
to make an accurate-.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
And these are the studies we should be doing,
though.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
You know, and they are doing some studies out there
.
You know, I don't make this myfocus because that is a rabbit
hole.
I mean it's that rabbit isreally underground, and if you
can make your spend your wholelife going down that rabbit hole
and I just chose not to but doI know a little bit about it
yeah, and so that's kind of cankind of tell you.
(44:33):
You know what they are thinking.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
The interesting to me is that you know when a mother
I'm going to use the word motherwhen a mother is pregnant, when
a woman is pregnant, they don'trecommend eating sushi which
holds mercury or any type offish, but when the child is born
, it's okay to shoot mercuryinto the brain of the child.
So you know I get the rabbithole, but these are some of the
(44:58):
questions that arise amongpeople and it's questionable.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
No, it's true.
I mean, okay, the amount ofaluminum in a vaccine.
It's so minuscule and this isthe argument you know this is
the people who arepro-vaccination make is that
it's so minuscule that if you'reeating sushi or you're eating
other things you're exposed waymore.
But then the counterargument isthat okay, but it's not
crossing the liver or it's notcrossing these other aspects
(45:25):
that are used specifically fordetoxing and the major function
of the liver.
It has many functions, but onebig one is to detox and to
prevent toxins from enteringinto the bloodstream.
And so, yeah, I mean, if youinject someone with something, I
mean it's bypassing all of that.
And so you know, I don't know,you know I'll have to, I just I
don't know, I understand and Irespect that.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Let's go back to the neurological dilemmas that can
be caused by having these heavymetals and these parasites in
the body?
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Oh yeah, Parasites.
We talked about the heavymetals.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
So some of the heavy metals can cause focus issues,
sleep deprivation and et cetera.
I think we got that down.
What about parasites?
Because this is huge, Manypeople are doing these parasite
cleanses.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Yeah, so here's the thing is that we live with
parasites in our microbiome.
Speaker 2 (46:13):
So it's already there .
Speaker 1 (46:14):
It's already there.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Let's not freak anybody out because it's a
gnarly picture.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
I know I feel like every time I see like an
influencer post something, I'mjust like I just want to be that
guy.
I was just like, oh yeah, butyou know, you have it naturally.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Cause they're my friends.
You know they're sharing myposts.
I can't no.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
I'm kidding.
So then, how safe can theseparasite cleansers be?
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I mean.
So it really comes down toparasitic load.
So you know, if you have toomany and this is where this is
why the microbiome is soimportant is because if you have
a healthy balance to yourmicrobiome, it will create the
conditions where parasitesreally can't grow and multiply
beyond what the biome aroundthem permits.
(46:54):
But yeah, it's true, I meanfish specifically.
There's been studies done on.
You know how often they findparasites in sushi, and it's way
more now than it was even just20 years ago.
You almost can't escape it anda lot of time it's.
You won't you know if you cutthe fish.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
You won't see it because there's eggs.
So, it's not a bad idea to doparasite cleanses.
I eat sushi.
It's a lighter topic.
Away from the worms, all right.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Everyone out there who you think that they're just
like the ultimate example ofhealth.
Come on, everybody is like youhave to live your life, and are
there some people who really are?
Speaker 2 (47:36):
the perfect Superman of the way I'm sure they're out
there, but I don't know any.
I don't know any either.
Okay, so naturally we haveparasites in us, but what are
some of the causes?
If we have those dangerous ones, what could we feel?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
So absolutely gastrointestinal disorders.
And it's not even consistent,because this is interesting is
that your body, if you have anacute parasite infection meaning
it just happened like you wentto Vietnam or something like
that you might have somethinglike explosive diarrhea and this
will be because your body istrying to get rid of the
parasite.
Oh, my goodness, Sometimes whatI see in people with chronic
(48:08):
parasitic infections isconstipation, because the
parasite wants to stay and soit's creating this environment
where it will make it moredifficult for you to pass, and
so someone could haveconstipation or diarrhea, and it
could be either one.
And that's exactly why I saydon't treat X, Y, Z.
I just see what I find and goafter that and also sleep issues
(48:34):
and anxiety.
This is, you know.
You were talking earlier abouthow therapists are approaching
anxiety by going after the gutProbably more than bacteria and
viruses, probably even fungi.
There is a massive correlationbetween parasitic infection and
anxiety and sleep disorders.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
How dangerous is it to have these parasites in your
body?
Well, I mean, you die from this.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I mean, I think, in probably the most severe acute
cases.
But like you'll know, like youknow you'll be in the hospital
and then they'll find out youhave a parasite and you'll get
better, Like most people in infirst world countries are not
going to die from parasites, butyou can because they're immune
to it.
No, because, well, for the mostpart, parasites won't kill you.
They want to keep you alivebecause you are a host for them.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Okay, that's in general, just anything that's
parasitic or that is livingwithin you.
They would prefer that you stayalive for their benefit.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
They're feeding off of you.
What else are they going to do,right?
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Hey, we need you, bro , like you can't, we need you
here, but certainly your lifecan be quite miserable, yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Ew.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
What's my next question?
I forgot my next questionBecause I'm very good with
visuals and I just have likethese white worms in my mind
right now.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
It's too much.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
It's disgusting.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
So is it true?
There's this myth in my culture.
By the way, you know that I'mArmenian right.
Okay, when a child is clenchingtheir teeth when they're
sleeping, you know that, clinchthey do it's because of
parasites.
Is this true?
Speaker 1 (50:00):
There is a correlation.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
It's not conclusive, but 100%.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
Wow.
So how does that cause that,though?
What's going on with that?
Speaker 1 (50:09):
It's just an upregulation of the sympathetic
nervous system and theseparasites you know.
Interesting with parasites isthey will produce toxins and
chemicals that will then control, they almost hijack your brain.
They're kind of like what's theterm, it's like a true you ever
heard of, like spiritualparasites or something like that
(50:33):
.
Why are they called that?
Well, parasites have thisunique ability to control or
send these messages that yourbrain will then produce certain
hormones and neurotransmittersin order to ensure the parasite
survival.
So stress involves increasingcortisol, and an increase in
(50:53):
cortisol is what creates immunedysregulation, and the parasites
and fungi and other microbeswant the immune system to be
distracted.
They want someone waving theflag over here so they can do
their thing, and so part of thatis getting your body into a
sympathetic fight or flightstate so that you produce the
cortisol, your immune systemgoes haywire and it kind of
(51:15):
can't focus on the parasite.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Do they multiply?
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
No way.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
Yeah, a ton.
I mean there's been scans ofpeople in third world countries
and their whole body will beinfested with parasites.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
Dr Max, let me tell you this fascinating story.
So I, when I was doing mypracticum hours it's 3000 hours
that we have to complete, kindof like your residency right,
very similar I worked in ahomeless population.
It was a shelter and I wasdoing social work with one of my
clients and he just comes upand he's like, hey, you want to
see something cool?
And I was like sure he justcame out of prison.
(51:50):
So he was at the shelter and hehad a cut on his arm and he
literally just went, look, look,look, and he took his arm like
this and white worm just cameout, probably ringworm and I was
just like what is?
this is fascinating to me.
So these things, you guys, they, they do exist oh yeah I don't
think that people are very awareof these.
(52:11):
Well, that's a ringworm.
It's a little different.
But, still, I don't think thatpeople are very aware that
parasites are in the body, andit's in what Pork?
Right, it's in fish.
And then we have to be reallymindful of what we're eating.
So, leading to the nextquestion how can we take care of
our gut?
What are some tips that you cangive the audience, like what
(52:32):
can they do to avoid thesesituations?
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Well, I think you know part of what I do and other
functional medicine people is.
It is part of wellness.
So I think going to see yourfunctional medicine doctor or
holistic doctor that assessesfor these things independent of
the symptoms you experience iswise.
Whether you do that twice ayear or something like that just
(52:55):
to clean yourself out is a goodidea.
There are certain supplementsthat are good for leaky gut, for
healing the lining of the gut.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
Can you tell us some of them?
Speaker 1 (53:07):
L-glutamine is one of them.
L-glutamine, l-glutamine, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
What does?
Speaker 1 (53:11):
that do.
It basically just reducesinflammation in the gut, lining
to allow it to heal better.
Same thing with Slippery Elm.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
I've heard of that.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
Slippery Elm is another one Colostrum, if you've
heard of Colostrum.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I've heard of this brand that everyone's a fan of
on Instagram.
What is it?
A-m-r-a?
It's the cow's, yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
It's the first milk production of the cow right
after the calf is born.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Do you believe in that?
Do you think it works?
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Well, no, I mean it's proven to support.
So there's data, oh there'sdata yeah, there's data that it
supports the healing of thesejunctions that have become
porous in the gut lining.
If someone's super sensitive todairy, it may not be good for
them, but you know there's a lotof ways to skin a cat and you
know that's just one of them.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, any other ones in particular you like.
What about for inflammation.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
For inflammation.
I mean you can do turmeric, youcan do resveratrol, you can do
quercetin, you can do a lot ofdifferent things.
For flavonoids, flavanol isreally good Antioxidants
high-dose antioxidants.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
Sorry to cut you off.
I've heard that methylfolatesare amazing for people who are
struggling with autoimmunediseases.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Well, it depends on whether they have a genetic
deficiency in certain aspects.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
So not everybody can take it.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Not everyone needs it , I mean, and methylation is
this whole other ballgame and Idon't do much of methylation
because I find that if you getrid of the stressors, the toxins
, infections, pathogens thatmost people can can methylate
well enough, but there are somepeople who cannot.
And if you do want to assistwith methylation while you heal
(55:01):
someone, can that only help.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah, it can only help, but can you tell the
audience what methylation is,cause I know that there's folic
acid and there's methylfolates.
It's a little different, right.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Yeah, so you can.
You can view your body If youopen up like a grandfather's
clock and you see all thesedifferent wheels and trinkets
and they're all.
You turn one of them and theyall kind of move.
If you view that process as thebiochemical cascade of events
that happen in your body inorder to function, in order to
(55:31):
create certain enzymes or tobreak certain things down, or
it's basically the insides ofthe grandfather clock that is
your autonomic, your system thatis processing things, and so
there are certain people theseare all made of methylation
relies on the production ofproteins, and there are certain
(55:51):
people who have genetic markersthat they just miss or do not
methylate, or there are certainparts of this grandfather clock
that aren't working as well.
It could use a little bit ofsupport.
So you know, if you supplementbased on that specific area
that's malfunctioning and again,this is not my area of
expertise- but it's aninteresting conversation, it's
(56:12):
okay.
You can really smooth out thosecogwheels of the grandfather
clock, but for most peoplethat's never an issue.
And then, all of a sudden, youget sick, and now we need to
address methylation.
Well, why don't we address thereason why someone got sick?
Speaker 2 (56:28):
That's my argument.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
That's why I choose not to make methylation my main
thing.
But is it helpful?
Sure, it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (56:33):
So your thing is attack the gut.
Let's rule out all theenvironmental stressors or all
the body stressors, because then, once that healed, you can
methylate naturally.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yes, yeah, I mean, the chance that someone I can't
help someone because of amethylation issue is low.
I mean, can it happen?
Sure, and you know.
That's why, when I get to thatsix-month point and I think
about, okay, maybe you're one ofthe you know one to 5% of
people where I'm hitting a wall,I'll think about who does
(57:04):
something that I don't do, andmaybe there's a chance that
that's where it's at and I'llthink of someone who does
methylation.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
Yes, interesting.
My next question for you, drMax, is we are living in a world
where every time you go into agrocery store, the first thing
you see are these supplementaisles.
It's nowhere around, like whenyou walk to Europe.
It's not like this.
You go to a grocery store inEurope, it's not like that.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
Oh, I didn't know that.
Speaker 2 (57:29):
But in America, when you walk into a supermarket like
Sprouts, whole Foods, rightthere, supplements.
So we people, you know, I think, that we're all about taking
supplements.
So my question is I went onthis rabbit hole before I got
(57:49):
here how much of supplements canwe take?
Because everyone's reallyinvested in all these
supplements.
You see people taking selenium,this, that, l-theanine, gaba,
blah, blah, blah.
How healthy are thesesupplements to be consuming, all
of them?
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Yeah, so there's kind of multiple parts of that.
So for one, how do you knowthat you need that supplement?
Just because the supplement isgood, has been shown to provide
certain benefits.
You don't know that you havesome sort of deficiency that
this supplement is going to fillyou.
Just it just makes you feelgood and so you buy, you know
zinc or whatever, and becauseyou think that, it's going to
(58:20):
help you.
Most of the time.
I mean, I'll sometimes evensave people money because
they'll come see me and I'll say, okay, you don't need to do
these, but you know, ahead andkeep that one, I'm gonna throw
this one in.
So really, a lot of it is justa marketing and it's America,
like there's no one regulatinganything.
You wanna go take all thesesupplements?
You can do it.
(58:40):
The quality of the supplementsthere are certain brands that I
trust.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
What are your favorites?
Speaker 1 (58:50):
I mean I have a lot, but in terms of herbs, supreme
Nutrition is really good.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
Oh yes, dr Charlie's recommends that, right, yeah,
we're all part of the same.
You're a part of the same.
Speaker 1 (59:00):
Actually, Dr Charlie was my chiropractor just before
I was going into school.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Really.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Partly when I was in school.
I found you through him by theway, yeah, so yeah, there's a
community of the chiropractorsthat kind of do the same stuff
yeah.
So Supreme Nutrition is apopular one.
I like Thorne.
Yes, thorne, pureEncapsulations is good.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
I'm a fan of Metagenics too.
Have you heard of that?
Speaker 1 (59:24):
Metagenics is good.
There's some people listen.
There's going to be no broadagreement across this, even in
this.
Speaker 2 (59:28):
I should have been a chiropractor, Dr Max.
Speaker 1 (59:30):
No, you know a lot.
I mean, yeah, I should havebeen because I'm fascinated.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
I mean, I read a lot, I research a lot.
That's why, thus being thereason, we're doing this show.
I mean it's fascinating becauseI believe in what you're doing.
I do.
Speaker 1 (59:42):
I appreciate that.
I mean you don't need to.
That's kind of.
The beauty of social media is alot of these, especially moms,
because they want the best fortheir kids.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
Moms are the chiropractors.
I'm like these moms areimpressive.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
They know a lot yeah.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
I mean for the past, I think 10 years a lot of moms,
a lot of dads too, people ingeneral.
They're waking up more andthey're realizing that they have
alternatives.
They don't have to just rely onWestern medicine.
You don't always have to takethese medicines to make you feel
better.
You know there's other optionsand it's always good to have
doctors like you to give usthose other options.
(01:00:22):
So I'm really grateful that wehad this conversation today.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
And honestly I'll just throw out there real quick
you know I've noticed a hugeleap of interest since COVID,
because I think COVID reallywoke a lot of people up when the
government wasn't talking atall about the benefits of
vitamin D and you know all theseother types of things
Ivermectin, right, exactly, andso a lot of people.
Half of it was just that wewere being gaslit.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
We were.
Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Yeah, and the other half is just in general distrust
of institutions, whether it'sfor that person's good or not.
More people have are becomingdistrustful and are interested
in what it is that vitalismoffers.
Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
I agree with you and I'm so.
Aren't you happy that peopleare more awake now?
Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah, it's, it's wild .
I mean, it really has blown upin the last few years.
Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
I know.
Well, this was awesome.
Thank you so much.
I think I've learned so muchfrom you and I think obviously
the audience has too, and thankyou, thank you for joining me
today.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Thank you so much for having me © BF-WATCH TV 2021.
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