Mary Kavukchyan | Student Loans, Debt Avoidance, Financial Aid | The Edit Alaverdyan Podcast #32

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Are you ready to finally understand the often confusing world of student loans and avoid the common pitfalls that have burdened so many? Join us for a compelling conversation with Mary Kavukchyan, a seasoned student loan consultant with nearly a decade of experience. Mary shares her invaluable insights into the systemic issues of the student debt crisis, the importance of grants like ACG and Pell, and how to navigate financial aid effectively. This episode promises to equip you with the knowledge needed to make informed decisions about your educational financing and avoid lifelong debt.

Discover how student loan debt can impact significant life choices such as homeownership and financial freedom. Mary delves into the benefits of nonprofit work for loan forgiveness, and the challenges of high-interest rates. With personal anecdotes and professional expertise, she provides practical advice on understanding different loan types and leveraging available resources. We also explore the troubling trend of educational institutions prioritizing profit over quality education, emphasizing the need for transparency and proper guidance.

In our conversation, we uncover critical issues within the U.S. education system and compare it to more affordable education models in other countries. Mary highlights the importance of understanding loan consolidation and forgiveness programs, shares success stories of clients who have reduced their loan burdens, and offers a hopeful outlook on overcoming financial barriers. Whether you're a student, parent, or educator, this episode empowers you to make smart educational investments and achieve your goals without being crippled by debt.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
People think it's me.
It's not me, I'm just the faceand I always say yes, I create
the game plan, but if my teamdoes not put the heart and the
work in there, we will not beable to even execute one file.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
You walk into businesses and you see that
there is a higher turnover rateand there's failures and there's
people fighting all the time.
You always want to look at theenvironment and say, like,
what's going on?
Like what's the model, what'sthe owner's philosophy?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
I always tell my clients the best source of these
guides ask your school whatgrants can you get me?
Is there any ACG grants thatare available for me?
Is there any Pell grants thatare available for me?
Google, I mean.
We live in a world where thisis always in our hands.
Google it.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
What's up with this country then in student loans?
If Canada has free educationalsystem for their kids and other
European countries, why are wedoing this to ours?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
My parents came from Armenia.
They didn't speak English.
It was go be a doctor, go be alawyer, go be a pharmacist and
we'll take care of you.
My parents had no idea.
So whatever the financialadvisor at my school said, it
was like God.
They said it, the school saidit.
That means it's true.
It doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Hello everyone, thank you for joining me today.
Today's conversation was allstudent loan related.
You guys, my guest was MaryKavukjan, and she's a loan
consultant, a student loanconsultant, and she has been in
this business for nine years andI genuinely was so excited to
see her and talk to her aboutour rigged system and what's

(01:42):
going on with all these privateloans, these federal loans,
these interest rates.
I mean, these are the reasonswhy kids don't even want to go
and pursue education anymore.
The system is rigged.
There's so much fraud behind it, there's misleading information
from universities and fromcounselors, so she kind of talks
about that and guides us on howto take proper steps so that
there's no anxiety and worryabout student loans and

(02:04):
education.
Essentially, we all want everysingle teenager, every single
kid, to get education and sincewe have people like Mary in the
world, it makes it so mucheasier.
So we talked about the data, wetalk about statistics.
Something she revealed wasphenomenal to me Over something

(02:25):
trillion people are in debt ofstudent loans everybody.
That's absurd and this isunpaid loans and what it does to
a person is just so sad.
So hearing her talk about allof this was really wonderful,
because we need people like thiswho speak up about what's
really happening in the system,but she also talks about guiding

(02:45):
us so that we never have todeal with these nasty student
loans.
So make sure you tune in, makesure you press the ring, make
sure you subscribe, because it'simmense support to me, and
enjoy this episode with MaryKavukian from MK Loan Consulting
Services.
Thank you, mary.
It's such an honor to have youon my show today.

(03:05):
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Thank you so much for having me.
Of course, actually, I havesuch respect for your work
because, first of all, it's noteasy and, second of all, I feel
like you help so many peoplegenuinely get out of situations
and address situations that arereally helpful and meaningful
for them.
So I'm very happy you do whatyou do, by the way, I love it,

(03:28):
yeah, do you really I do.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
I love my job.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Tell me what you love about your job, because it's
not easy.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
No, but it's not.
But once you figure it out,it's so easy.
The fact that you have so manystudents with so much student
loan debt and then they come toyou.
They can't purchase a house,they're basically stuck in life.
And then here I am like, okay,well, I could discharge your
loans or I could drop yourmonthly payment or I could play
with your interest rate, and nowI'm able to help them assist on

(03:56):
purchasing a home.
Like living again, yeah, likethey're able to free.
Every other conversation I havein my office is like Mary, you
lifted so much weight off of myshoulders.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Shoulders.
Yeah, we're still nervous.
It's okay Because it's anintense convo.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, it's nice the fact that you're able to have
them breed again.
They're not stuck, they couldpurchase properties.
It's nice, it's a good feeling.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
It is a good feeling, and I know that it's
challenging for sure, but howdid you get into this?
Tell us a little bit before wedive into the governmental
questions.
I had student loan debt, that'sliterally how I got into it,
was it a lot.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Not as much as what I've been seeing now.
Nowadays.
It's insane on these poor kids.
They have like two, threehundred thousand in student loan
debt.
It's ridiculous because schoolsare raising up tuition,
Interest rates are going up.
It's not the same as when wewent to college.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
So you had student loans.
How did you recover?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
from them.
I mean, my family is alwaysinvolved with nonprofits, so I
had the luckier way out, but nowI'm guiding students to get
that benefit as well, too.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Wow, that's interesting.
You said something interesting.
The nonprofit benefit.
What is that about?
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
The nonprofit, so if you dohumanitarian work.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
You work for a 501c3 exam company, a registered
nonprofit.
Yeah, anyone that's a 501c3will qualify you Best one,
especially in the Armeniancommunity, is IHSS.
Everyone has a grandparent,everyone has someone that
requires IHSS, so that actuallywill qualify you to go through

(05:37):
the nonprofit route.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Are you serious?

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, and a lot of people have.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
And get paid doing it too right, Exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you take care of your grandparents, you discharge
your loans faster.
It's like a win of people haveand get paid doing it too right?
Exactly so you take care ofyour grandparents, you discharge
your loans faster.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
It's like a win-win situation.
How did you find out all ofthis?
Because, look, I've known youfor a while now and you're
literally like a queen.
You know the ins and outs ofthese student loans.
Like, how did you learn so much?

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Time.
Honestly, was it time I've beendoing it for so long where I
didn't?
If you came to me, maybe 10years ago, I would have
stuttered.
I would have been like let mecheck, let me get back to you,
but I have three young children,so I have plenty of time at
night to do research.
And then it's about who youknow.
I have a lot of people fromCongress, for example.

(06:22):
You do I do?
I have a lot of people wherethey go hey Mary, you're
servicing my loans, something'sabout to be proposed, can you
check into it?
Can you see if I qualify?
That client might not qualify,but I have 300,000 active
clients that might qualify.
So they kind of feed meinformation too.
It's the time, it's theknowledge, it's the research,
it's all of it.

(06:42):
So I do all of it for you guys,and then I discharge the loans.
That's phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Tell us what are you seeing, because I'll tell you
from the other end of what Ifelt as a person whose hand has
had these crazy loans, and fromyou know, leaning to someone
like you to help.
What are you noticing?
Because I feel like it'scorrupt to the max.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
It is Honestly, look, I do student loan forgiveness.
If you don't know how toutilize the education system
towards your benefit, you'redone Like you will sink in debt,
no pun intended.
I've seen people that weremisguided by their schools, for
example.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
By counselors.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yes, like, for example, you're under the age of
24.
I'm going to use a student as anexample, because everybody
knows is one of my biggestschool.
Under 24 years of age, there'sthree options.
You could pull out a ParentPLUS loan, which is still a
governmental loan.
You could pay directly to theschool, or you could pull out a

(07:45):
private loan.
Okay, what are these counselorstelling these students?
They're saying well, you knowwhat you have until October.
Hurry up, hurry up, sign up,sign up, sign up.
So people are panicking.
They're not understanding whatkind of loans they're taking out
, and they're taking out privateloans.
Private loans are unsecureddebt.
They do not get forgiven.
The interest rates are like Ijust helped a kid out 18% On a

(08:09):
$70,000 loan, 18% in a 20-yearmark, $250,000 with interest and
principal.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
It could have been avoided.
How is he going to pay that?

Speaker 1 (08:19):
off.
They have to refine it andconstantly refine it and reset
the years and they're nevergoing to pay it off.
Honestly, bankruptcy or any ofthose will eventually be where
it's at.
But if they're under the age of18, you pull a Parent PLUS loan
out.
Parent PLUS loans areforgivable, especially if your
mom is a caretaker for yourgrandparents.

(08:39):
Right Now you have a ParentPLUS loan that has a low income,
is a caretaker for an IHSSrecipient.
Their loan basically, will getthe charge in 10 years without
them even investing a singledollar on their child's
education, and this is 25 under24 under 24 under.

(09:03):
And for undergrad loans.
So bachelors and lower Nothingin graduated school.
Unfortunately, you can'tutilize a Parent PLUS loan in
that aspect.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Because you're probably going to be like over
25 by the time you get to like—yes, I know.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
I have people that have attended graduate—like I
had an attorney yeah, at 23,she's starting law school and
she's pulling out the correctloans.
We're guiding her from A to Z.
And school and she's pullingout the correct loans.
We're guiding her from A to Zand once she graduates, she's
not even going to pay half ofwhat she took out.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
So what is your number?
Let's just say we have a newlygraduated kid, because this is
what I'm noticing and this isthe beautiful conversation
that's about to take place.
You have a newly graduated kidthat wants to go to college, but
the parents cannot afford forthem.
Let's just you know he'scapable to go to college but
can't afford it.
That ends up going to college.

(09:49):
Let's just say because ithappens.
But then what happens is thatlet's just say counselors end up
making this kid take classes,finishes the class but doesn't
need the class.
Then he has to take another.
Because I've seen this, thiswas done to me.
So by the time you know what?
Three years has passed by andyou're not done with your
prerequisites, you're stuck.
So how do you guide newstudents that are willing to

(10:11):
take this educational path?
What advice do you give them?

Speaker 1 (10:13):
How do you guide them , okay.
So I actually started doingthat about four years ago,
because before it was like whydidn't I know about you from the
beginning, of course.
So as soon as they graduatehigh school, most of my students
come to me.
We figure out a game planwhat's your end result?
What do you want to be?
What are the steps to get toyour end result?
For example, you want to be anurse practitioner.

(10:35):
Do you want to go to acommunity school and get your
prereqs?
Or your tuition is lower atWest Coast or Mount St Mary or
whatever you choose to go.
Do you want to go straight intothe private school where, yes,
federally you'll be only covered$30,000, but again, you have
that option to pull out a ParentPLUS loan, so the finance of
your parents will no longer bean issue.

(10:57):
Because that's even better.
Your low-income federal studentloans will be provided to you
in a bigger amount versus tosomebody that their parent has
money where they won't get PellGrants, they won't get ACG
Grants.
There's so much out there.
So we structure it and webasically guide them.
Okay, we're going to go to WestCoast, you're going to finish

(11:19):
your nursing, then you're goingto go into your MP, are you
going to work while you gothrough your MP and we figure it
all out, they get into theproper job replacement.
So we tell them I tell themokay, if you're going to work in
the hospital, this is whatyou're going to look at in the
long run on what you're going topay in your loans.
If you're going to go intoaesthetics or you're going to go

(11:39):
to home health or hospices,anticipate this is what you're
going to pay.
So from the beginning, theyalready know what they're going
to get themselves into.
It's not like, hey, you know,I'm just going to wing it, I'm
going to pull out random classes, allocate a lot of loans under
my name and then just be stucknot know what I'm doing.
So we create a game plan.
I hold their hand up untilgraduation.

(12:01):
As soon as they graduate, letthem study further and class.
I'm here, I'm already workingon the discharge of their loans.
Oh my God.
Yeah, it's so fun.
Especially those kids.
I get to see them from likehigh school and then they grow
up and then they're doctors,like your children, of course.
I have so many of them I loveit.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
I know it's amazing, and the connection that you
built with families isphenomenal too.
So what are you noticing inthis system?
Because, look, every school isdifferent and we kind of had a
conversation yesterday and wetalked about it but every school
is different.
What are you noticing in theseschools?
Are they doing the right thingas far as guiding these kids?
No, what are you noticing?

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Like, let's just be real, honestly, they're guiding
them incorrectly.
They're guiding them based onwhat would benefit the school
versus to what would benefit thestudent and what does benefit
the school Like private loans.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
Why does that benefit ?
They get more money.
So private loans, they get moremoney, which is what the
interest piece?

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah Well the interest rates are ridiculous
Even on federal loans.
Right now, An undergrad loan isat 6.5% Undergrad loan.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
That's not even going to get you a decent job no 6.5%
.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
It's ridiculous, those are, and it started July
of this year.
Does the degree matter?
No, so bachelor's is 6.5.
At any subject, In any subject.
If it's graduated loans 8%.
If it's parent plus loans andyou want to pull out direct plus
loans, so additional fundingfor your graduated loan 9%, 9%.

(13:34):
So you pull out $100,000, it'sgoing to cost you $600,000 in a
30-year span.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
So your whole education costs you $100,000,
but by the time you pay it off,with all the interest and
accumulations, it's $600,000.
That's like no way.
So then, when the schoolgraduates right.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
They don't even understand these forgiveness
programs.
They tell the studentsconsolidate all your loans and
put yourself in an income-driven.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
But that's what the school tells you.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
They'll call you from the school and tell you that
and I'm like no, not everyonequalifies for consolidation,
because there's stuff calledweighted average consolidation,
where you can pull out your fromyour oldest loan, so your
undergrad degree all the way toyour graduated degree, and if
you consolidate it correctly,you gain history.
Now, on your newer loans, oh myVersus to you consolidating it

(14:27):
in one piece and resetting yourterm and starting it all over
from the date you graduated.
There's so many legal loopholeswhere the education system
could work for you, but thesestudents are not taught
correctly, unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Do you think that they're not taught correctly
because it's done on purpose, orbecause the people that are
providing you these servicesdon't even know themselves
what's going on?

Speaker 1 (14:52):
It could be both, honestly, because I didn't know
what was going on until I gotinto this field.
I had no idea about studentloans.
I was no, I didn't know.
I was like, okay, well, they'regoing to give me $300,000.
I'm going to get my doctorate,I'm going to make so much money,
I'll pay it off.
That's everybody's mentality.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
It is it doesn't work that way.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's what fed to us , though, exactly they make it
into this like beautiful rainbow.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
American dream.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, but it's not from the beginning, correctly.
I promise you that $300,000student loan that you took out.
You won't even pay $120,000towards it, and that's what
interest and principal versustwo millions and putting
yourself deeper and deeper intothat.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
That is so interesting.
Are you noticing this in anyother countries, or is it just
America.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
It's America because Canada.
I've had a few clients wherethey fell in love and they
married and they went to Canada,or they went to Australia or
they went to Armenia, and it'scompletely different.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
The education system.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, it's free, like if you default in Canada.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
What do you mean?
It's free, like educationalsystem.
Yeah, I mean they give you someloans but say you default.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
They don't come after you, they don't garnish wages
and they don't take your socialsecurity.
They don't do any of that overthere, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
they take away.
So over here they take ofcourse they do can you tell us
more?
About what so?
It's a punishment.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
It is because you take an entrance counseling.
They basically say this is the,this is the terms that we're
going to give you the loans.
Now, if you do not pay us back,these are federally secured
loans.
The guarantee is the Departmentof Education right, the
Treasury.
So if you don't pay it backanything that's federally, bank

(16:38):
accounts, your paychecks theyhave the full liability to
garnish your wages.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
And there is a decrease in children wanting to
be educated, because there'sjust this absurd amount of fear
behind these loans.
Yeah, and it's so unfortunatebecause it's not supposed to be
that way.
We want children to thrive, wewant them to get education.
We need good practitioners, weneed good doctors and lawyers,

(17:04):
and it's really unfortunate thatthis is happening.
How can we encourage these kids?
What is your perspective?

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I mean, if you don't use someone like me?
The Department of Education'swebsite has the information in
there studentaidgov.
Go in there, understand it.
Understand what you're pullingout.
Understand your end story.
Understand how much loans aregoing to be required.
Understand your interest rate.
Don't just jump into somethingI've.

(17:32):
I always tell my clients likeI've had clients where they
didn't qualify for federal loansand they're like Mary, we're
desperate, pull us a privateloan.
And I said absolutely not.
If I pull you a $70,000 privateloan, it's going to cost you
over $300,000.
I will not do it.
You could not pay me enough toput you in debt Like I
personally will not do it.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Does every student qualify for these private loans?

Speaker 1 (17:56):
No and yes, I mean, if you have a good cosigner,
you're an American citizen, yeah, you should be fine.
But every young kid will notqualify for a private loan
without a cosigner.
So now you're not justaffecting your credit, you're
affecting your parents, youruncles, your grandparents,
whoever it is that chooses to beyour cosigner.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
Where do these private loans come from?
Are they coming from like banks, mainly, or there's like
organizations?

Speaker 1 (18:19):
They're like private lenders like Sallie Mae, ernest
SoFi there's so many out there,but it's like the banking system
.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
So the people, the students are not aware, they're
not really told that this is aprivate loan and this is going
to stick with you.
It's not forgivable.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Yeah, I've had that happen.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
You've had that happen.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
Oh my God, I've had that happen so much, where
clients came in and I clearlythey're young and I'm like why
did you pull out a private loan?
Well, they said, if I didn'ttake care of the loan situation
I wouldn't be accepted.
They would push my enrollmentdate three months far out.

(18:57):
Nobody told me I could pull outa parent plus loan.
Or here's the fun part Say,your parent is on disability.
Okay, there's a lot of peoplethat are under the age of 24
where, unfortunately, theirparent is on disability.
I can't pull out loans under mydad because he's on disability.
No, you, of course, can pullout loans under your dad, it
doesn't matter, he's ondisability.
Guess what?
Once you graduate, because yourdad is on disability, the loans

(19:22):
get discharged.
No term, no, nothing.
And it sucks that thesecounselors don't sit down and
tell the clients what does yourmom do, what does your dad do?
What's the income?
So that's what we do in ourconsultation, so we could pull
it out.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
I'm so passionate about that because I oh my gosh
my personal experience witheducation is not fun and it was
just so misleading in so manydifferent ways and it's
unfortunate.
Like sometimes you do feel likeit's done purposely, but then
you don't want to be that eviland think of that way of people.
But yeah, like you go back andyou're like how can a school

(19:59):
counselor not know these things?
Like innocent children beingpushed into these loans and like
so you're saying it'sunforgivable, meaning that
they're stuck with those.
There's nothing you can doabout it.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
No, so what do you tell them?
I say, unfortunately I can'thelp you.
Oh my gosh, or you have torefine it.
Or if you're home, like rightnow, home loans are dropping
slowly.
Right, Pull a HELOC on.
But unfortunately, if you pullout private loans, they are not
forgivable.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
The only thing you can play with is down the line,
is the interest rate, whatschools have you encountered
that are just gnarly and you'relike this has got to be a joke.
There's a lot.
Can you name a few?

Speaker 1 (20:37):
No, there's a lot.
I won't put anyone under thebus.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
That's the fun part, just so they're aware.
Okay, fine, tell me later, yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
But I wish we can, so that A lot of these
unaccredited schools put it thisway If you're going into a
school, look at theiraccreditations.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
What do you mean by non-credited?
Why would you go to a schoolthat's not though?

Speaker 1 (21:08):
How is that degree valid?
Because a lot of people it is,Even those private law schools
and things like that.
Yeah, yeah, Like let's use asan experience.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
Back in the days a lot of attorneys would utilize.
I mean, it's non-existent right.
Correct, because they lost itExactly so a lot of these
schools, kind of like there'syes.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
There's so many where they're like come sign up with
me.
We will promise you the moonand the stars.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
They're done but those kids are still paying
their… their student loans,private loans.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, the federal.
There's something we could goabout it.
You know you could do aborrower of defense claim, open
an ombudsman case.
There's so many differentroutes federally.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
But unfortunately if you pulled out of private loans
in these unaccredited schools,that got shut down.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Guess what?
You're still stuck with theloan.
So tell us what the data isbehind student loan debt among
Americans.
Okay, are you ready?
Yes, so as of this quarter, thedata has calculated $1.75
trillion in student loan debt InAmerica.
In America, $1.75.
And that's both federal andprivate loans.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
That's insanity.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, $1.75 trillion.
Do you imagine that with allthe current interest rates, it's
going to exceed over $2trillion by the time this year
is over?

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Wow, yeah is over.
Wow, that is anxiety to anotherlevel, because I look at the
system and I see how rigged itis from that.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
That's not a normal number.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
No these are people who owe with interest, obviously
, and that started in thebeginning of 2024.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
So towards the end of this year they'll do another.
You know the data statistics,so I'm sure it will probably hit
$2 trillion by then, and it'sgrowing every year and it's
growing because of the interestrate and then living costs.
So as much as people make money, the debt amount is so high
they're not able to pay offanything.

(23:02):
Their credit card debt, theirstudent loan debt.
Hence why so many people arefiling for bankruptcy.
They're defaulting, and etcetera.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
That's insane.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, it's sad.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
For a long time I noticed influencers constantly
say education doesn't matter.
Education who cares?
You can start your business,you can do well.
And that irks me such like itgives me goosebumps to hear
things like that, because Ithink education does matter.
It is the most important thing,not only to make money.
Education is not to make money,but for your well-being, to be

(23:35):
a better person, to be acompetent individual, better
parent.
And when things like thishappen and I see kids get
discouraged like oh, who wantsto go and pay a $300,000 loan,
it kills me inside.
It's so sad to see things likethis happen.
That's why I want to know whatschools exactly, so that we know
, like you know, what kids areworking with.
Are you noticing anything inlike specific fields, maybe

(23:59):
Nursing?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Nursing is the biggest one right now.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Nursing- and law.
So what are you noticing innursing?
Let's start in nursing, becauseI know it's pretty competitive
right now.
Many, many, many kids want toget into nursing.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
See, that's another thing that they're doing.
They're bringing in so manystudents in one specific field
where these people, when theygraduate, they're not educated
well enough to pass their NCLEX.
For example, I have multiplestudents that take multiple
tries to pass their NCLEX.
For example, I have multiplestudents that take multiple
tries to pass their NCLEX andthey don't care about the
students.
It's so unfortunate.

(24:32):
What do you?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
mean, tell me a little bit about that piece.
What are you noticing as aprofessional?
What do you mean by they don'tcare about the students Because
they're?

Speaker 1 (24:40):
just bringing people in.
As a business, you want theflow to come in right Constantly
.
You don't ever want it to stop.
So once that student graduatesfrom your company you don't
remember that student, do you?
Well, there's no relationshipformed, of course.
Exactly so.
Their goal is to get as manystudents in as possible.
Pull out the loans, get paid,graduate them.

(25:02):
Now, what happens to theirloans?
What happens to their loans?
What happens to their you knowdegree?
What happens to their?
Are they even going to work inthat field?
Nobody cares.
So what they do is they go okay, sign up with me, hurry up,
let's do it.
Let's get in, get your loans,get your this, get your that.
And you know how many kids comein panicking in my office.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
What are they panicking?

Speaker 1 (25:24):
They're like Mary, we got to get in, please give me
an appointment ASAP.
We need to pull out new loans,or else won't get me in in
October, won't get me, orthey'll push me into January.
So they get desperate and theypull out these 18% interest
loans.
So they're in there and I'mlike what are you guys doing?
Like slow down, who cares?

(25:45):
If you don't get in in October,what's the rush?
Get in in January, but get inwith a proper 6% loan, not 18%
loan.
You want these counselors toeducate these students better.
Like, hey, let's get in at a 6%, let's not rush it, let's fix
everything.
Let's get all your prereqs inand get you in with a lower

(26:06):
amount of tuition.
Because here's the thing themore loans you have, the more
money I make.
But that's not my goal in mycompany.
My goal is to educate you,because I once was a student and
no one educated me.
My parents came from Armenia.
They didn't speak English.
It was go be a doctor, go be alawyer, go be a pharmacist and

(26:27):
we'll take care of you.
My parents had no idea.
So whatever the financialadvisor at my school said, it
was like God.
They said it, the school saidit.
That means it's true.
It doesn't work that way.
Educate yourself if no one'seducating you, and don't be
scared of like 200, 300.
I have people they don't wantto go to medical school because
they're afraid of the loan.
I'm like don't be afraid, I'mhere.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, that's my next question.
So again there is this big fearMany, many kids that want to be
doctors, lawyers, but theycan't afford all that.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
I mean, how do you soothe their anxiety?
But they could If we structureit from the beginning, pulling
out the correct loans, settingup a game plan.
Let me give you like.
Let me just cut off my trace ofthought.
I had a client that startedfour years ago.
He came to me he was going togo into dental.
Dental loans are the worstfederal loans you could ever

(27:22):
pull out.
They're bigger than medicalloans.
They're bigger than dentists.
Yes, really.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Now I understand why dentists charge so much.
Dental loans are the worst.
They start at a minimum of halfa million and if you're going
in for a specialty you could endwith a million dollars in loans
by the time you finish payingthat off.
It's two to three milliondollars with interest, my
goodness.
But he was freaking out and Iwas like, don't worry, we got

(27:49):
this.
So he followed my guideline.
He took out about $572,000.
We applied for grants after hegraduated.
He's doing his thing.
Guess what?
Five years into it his loansare fully discharged.
Why?
Because we went through theproper channels.
He didn't pay half a milliondollars.
He probably paid like $125,000and he was done and it doesn't

(28:12):
mean that.
Compare that to $2 million To $2million of course, and I've
seen a lot of that, and so whatis your trick like?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
what are the tricks?

Speaker 1 (28:21):
no, programs, no tricks.
And I tell my clients you don'teven need to pay me if you
educate yourself.
You could do it on your own.
There's no tricks, it's justthe time and the experience.
Like again, 10 years ago, Ididn't have the experience, I
didn't have the.
I mean, I had the knowledge,but it wasn't to this extent.
So I tell my clients, likeyou're not paying me for some

(28:42):
magic, I've had people that hadnamed me Miracle Mary or Magic
Mary or like the names that cameout with like the referrals.
I was dying and I was like I'mnone of that, I'm just like you
Because I am like them.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
I am like you guys, but you're just so well-seasoned
and so well-informed.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
It's the time, it's the experience, it's constantly
doing it and the fact that justthis year alone we're in August
my staff has already dischargedno exaggeration over $25 million
in student loan debt noexaggeration.
When I came back from myvacation, my desk was like
covered in dis loan debt noexaggeration.
When I came back from myvacation, my desk was like

(29:20):
covered in discharges and Icalculated it just to see how
much they did when I was gone.
They did about $4 million indischarge.
That's insane.
Imagine getting that phone calllike, hey, by the way, your
loans are gone.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
So tell me this.
Does your staff also guide onwhat classes to take and what
schools to go to Things?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
of that sort.
No, we don't do that, becauseif I did that, I wouldn't have
time to do you know?
Yeah, I basically just helpwith the type of loans to pull
out and then, once you graduate,I help assist with the
discharge of the loans.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
So then I want to understand this piece.
Then, how do the school, I meanit's education?
Yes, I know they have to go toschool to be a school counselor,
but then how do they know theseguidelines if they're not
taught Like?
Is it like a training that theytake from the schools, schools?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
usually I remember when I was in high school.
It's a long time ago.
Yeah, like the schoolcounselors they would tell us
like this is the prereqs thatyou need, because there's no
class for that.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Back in our days there was ROP, Do you remember?
There was Regional OccupationalProgram.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, so they would send us to like GCC and stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
And while we were in high school.
Where did you volunteer?

Speaker 1 (30:25):
in your ROP program.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
JCPenney Ross.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yeah, I love it.
I was a Ross, I was JCPenneyBack then.
It was, I see Betty.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
I would call my mom.
Mom, there's this shirt, it'sso cute.
Can I put it on hold so you canget it for me?

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Oh my God, that cost me more money than actually
making money.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I mean, it was free, but those programs were
phenomenal.
Man.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
They're so motivating and encouraging Because they
teach you.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
DARE DARE was another one.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Yeah, there were so many programs in our days, but
like that anymore.
Yeah, I mean, my kids are notold enough that they're in high
school for me to be like okay.
Well, you know I'm seeing thishappen with counselors, so I
can't comment on that, but Icould see from the children that
have come to me for me to guidethem, most of them are very
uneducated, they're very lostand they're like we don't have a

(31:10):
game plan.

Speaker 2 (31:11):
We just want to be a nurse and then so what's the
game plan, though, for any field, any subject Like, let's just
say, law?

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Well, you've got to do your undergrad right, of
course, and then you have to—Apply for law school.
Yeah, but it's—those stuff.
I don't even want to get intoit because I feel like my head
would officially blow up if Iget more in.
I don't know the prereqs.
I usually tell my studentsthere are people that do help
out with, you know, taking thetest or the SATs or applying for

(31:43):
grants and Pell Grants.
I have people that I do referout to, but I just again, I like
to help with the loans.
Loans are my thing, they're mybaby.
I rather guide them correctly inthat division.
My baby, I'd rather guide themcorrectly in that division.
Let the counselors and thefinancial advisors hopefully
guide them correctly in thataspect.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
So do these scholarships and Pell Grants and
grants, I mean, they stillexist today.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Oh my.
God, yes, I had a kid the otherday got 60K for Pepperdine.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
So tell me how does that work?
What qualifications are theylooking for?
You could be.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Caucasian and you might get a $5,000 Pell Grant.
You could draw a bunny youmight get a $2,000 Pell Grant.
I always tell my clients thebest source of these guides ask
your school.
What grants can you get me?
Is there any ACG grants thatare available for me?
Is there any Pell Grants thatare available for me?
Or Google I mean, we live in aworld where this is always in

(32:38):
our hands Google- it.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Can you educate us in the different grants and what
they stand for?
So there's the Pell Grant.
What does that stand for?
Exactly?
Because there's a lot oflisteners that are like what is
that?

Speaker 1 (32:49):
It's just schools that give you a certain
limitations of Pell Grants.
It's a big variety.
Honestly, I myself don't evenknow the full like qualification
of it because I don't do it.
I can help you with like thestudent loan aspect of it, on
what is an unsubsidized loan,what is a subsidized loans.
But for the grants I don'ttouch them.
The school usually is the onethat offers it.

(33:09):
So my best guidelines to thosestudents is ask your school
counselor.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Ask your school, so it's good to always ask Always.
Even colleges you feel like.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Oh yeah, I'm telling you, colleges too.
I had a young gentleman thatcame in.
He had no citizenship so hedidn't qualify for federal loans
.
But we have the DREAM programin California which for
immigrants.
They could go to college hereand they will get some type of
loans.
So I told him and I said youknow, I don't think it's a good
idea for you to go to Pepperdine.
I said unless you could findgrants to cover the tuition,

(33:47):
because paying $70,000, $80,000per year out of pocket you're
not going to qualify for anyfinancial planning.
You know, federal loans Ipersonally feel like you should
go to a community collegeinstead of wasting $70,000,
$80,000 a year on prereqs.
And then I said or ask yourcounselor See if you could get
grants.
He actually came back to me twodays ago $65,000 in grants.

(34:08):
He's like—.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
To Pepperdine.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Yeah, and it's only going to cost him $6,000.
And I was like yes, do it Like$6,000?
For the whole year?
Correct, because he got grantsand everything for it.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
So he's good.
So he'll cover his next andthen the next Yep and he'll be
set.
Yeah, do you recommend forstudents to start with community
college for their prereqs first?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Yes and no.
So if you're going to donursing, no, just go to those
private schools.
They're faster, they're moreaccelerated, so you go in there.
It's a two, three-year term.
You're out, you do your NCLEXand you start working.
You don't waste time in acommunity college Chemistry, bio
, like you, don't do any of that.
If you're going to go in for MT, if you're going to go in for

(34:52):
dentist, you're going to go infor lawyer, yeah, go to
community.
Why would you add more loansonto your loan amount when you
know in the long run those loansare going to start minimum two
to 300,000.
So save as much as money aspossible.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
What's interesting to me is the dentist loans that
you were saying like 500,000.
That's absurd.
What's I mean?
What does that even cover?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Well, that's not even like USC.
If I have a USC dental student,that's more like a Loma Linda
student.
For dentistry You're kidding me.
New York ridiculous.
The pricing, usc ridiculous.
They're at like $90,000 to$105,000 a year.
And dentistry how much?
$90,000 to $105,000 per year.

(35:36):
Four years.
It adds up Plus while they'rein school.
Because of the type of loansthey pulled out, it's
compounding interest.
So a lot of people are like no,I'm not getting any interest on
my loans and I go.
Who lied to you?
The only time you don't getinterest on your loans is a
subsidized loan and it's foryour bachelor's, your undergrad

(35:58):
degree.
You have that six-month graceperiod where you're not
compounding any interest.
Any other type of loan, themoment you accept it you're
already compounding interest.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Tell us about the subsidized loan and the
non-subsidized loans.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Okay, so subsidized loans are undergrad loans.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Bachelor's degree loans you guys.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Bachelor's, associates, vocational colleges,
trades colleges, all of thoseschools.
They don't compound anyinterest.
They give you that six-monthgrace period.
So you graduate, they give youa six-month grace period for you
to pass your test, for you tolook for a job and all of that
fun stuff.
With that, you have to take anunsubsidized loans, because the

(36:40):
subsidized loans they give youlike $2,000 to $3,000 per
semester.
So the unsubsidized loans areabout $5,000 to $6,000.
For undergrad loans.
It could be more, it could beless, and they compound interest
.
So even though you're notcompounding interest on your
subsidized loans for yourundergrad, though you're not
compounding interest on yoursubsidized loans for your
undergrad, you're stillcompounding interest on your

(37:00):
unsubsidized loans.
Now, once you start going intograduated school, the subsidized
loans go away.
They don't even bother offeringthat because those are the 6.5%
loans.
Now they're offering you an 8%unsubsidized loan.
And if you want additionalfunding because, like you said,

(37:23):
most people can't afford to sendtheir kids to these expensive
colleges, so they're forced totake out living costs, book
costs, laptop costs, car miles,gas and etc.
Right, so they have to pull outa direct plus loan.
So when they're pulling out adirect plus loan, you have an
eight percent unsubsidized loancompounding interest on this end
for four years, right, becauseyou're in graduated school.
And then you have a 9% directplus loan compounding interest.

(37:44):
So in four years,hypothetically speaking, you're
just in college, right, you'rejust studying, you're not
working, none of that.
You took out a $300,000 loan.
By the time you graduate, your$300,000 loan is going to be
$380,000, $400,000, depending onthe interest rate.
That's you doing nothing,that's just you attending school

(38:06):
.
Now the real interest kicks inand a lot of people go.
But I've been paying.
I know, I see it.
Why isn't it dropping from myinterest rate?
Why isn't it dropping from myprincipal?
I'm like student loans don'twork like home loans.
Like you make an extra payment,you don't drop a year, you
don't drop off a principal, itjust keeps accumulating.
It's structured that way30-year term versus 15 years.

Speaker 2 (38:34):
You're just throwing money in there, next 15 years is
where you're dropping it off ofthe principal and interest.
Mary, tell us what is the worstcase scenario that you have
experienced and you have seen.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Honestly, there was a husband and wife case that came
in.
If my grandparents were alive,they would probably be my
grandparents' age.
Okay, I want to say he wasabout 70, give or take, and he
started getting his SocialSecurity garnished His whole
life.
He's always made money right.
So he was always like, oh,they're never going to get me.

(39:02):
He's defaulted on his studentloans maybe like 30 years now,
okay, and they never got himbecause he always had to pay
back.
He always made money.
Irs never had anything to giveto him because he would always
owe right.
So he finally decided to retire,stopped working, went on social
security.
Guess what they did?
They garnished his wages, theygarnished his social security

(39:25):
and they put a lien on his house.
The Department of Justice gotinvolved.
The Department of Educationwasn't involved at this point
too, and it was such a grimsituation because here I am
looking at someone that's likemy grandpa's age.
He has no financial capabilityright now.
He's 70 years old, he's doneworking, they're not giving him

(39:47):
a dollar of his social securityand they put a lien on his house
that he worked so hard onobtaining.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Oh my God, this is all from student not paying his
student loan.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
And I have a lot of Armenians that have that
mentality Like huh, I'm nevergoing to pay for it.
I'm like, don't do that.
Private loans cool.
Like bankrupt it, you could dowhatever you want, but with
federal loans.
You do not want to mess withthem at all.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
This is horrible, yeah, so then his whole life.
I mean he has to work now.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
No, I mean he has me, but so what did you?
do?
We got it resolved.
We dealt with the Department ofJustice.
I've had multiple situationslike that.
We were able to stop thegarnishments.
Actually, on the funny part isbecause of our current president
, there was a waiver that wewere able to utilize where we
fresh started his loans, kickedthem out of default and then

(40:44):
actually got some of the socialsecurity that was garnished
returned back to our client.
But had he not heard about us,imagine, like a 70-year-old man,
where was he going to work?

Speaker 2 (40:52):
That's amazing, like you literally saved him.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah, he was one of my favorite clients of last year
.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
How does it feel, Mary?
Tell us a little bit about yourexperience.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I love it.
I'm telling you, I get likethis I love these crazy cases
where they come in and it's sogrim and it's so bad and they're
defaulted and there's like nohope.
And I'm like, no, we got this,like we're going to do this,
this, this, this, this, and thenthey go.
But we got this, like we'regoing to do this, this, this,
this, this, and they go.
But it sounds so good to betrue.
And then when we do it and weactually accomplish what we talk
about, and they're like so whatelse do you do?

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Can you do this, can you do that?

Speaker 1 (41:26):
And I was like no.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I stood in loans.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
I don't want to learn anything else.
I like to focus on one thingand just master it.
That's just the way I see it.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
So tell us about your team.
What kind of team members doyou need to master this?
I mean, other than yourphenomenal brain, which
obviously takes a lot oflearning and experience.
Like, what do you need?
What is your team about?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
It's not me, I'm just the face and I always say, yes,
I create the game plan, but ifmy team does not put the heart
and the work in there, I createthe game plan, but if my team
does not put the heart and thework in there, we will not be
able to even execute one file.
The team, the experience, theknowledge is not as much needed,
like, you don't need abachelor's degree, you don't
need education and student loans.
We will teach that to my teammembers.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Most of my team members have been with me like
the older members, have beenwith me from the start of MK.
Actually like my office.
How long has MK been?

Speaker 1 (42:22):
alive.
Let's see nine years.
Actually, we just hit nineyears in July are you gonna do
something for your 10?
Hopefully.
Maybe we have more locationsopening up this year, so tell us
about that currently I have 15locations all throughout the
United States.
15?
, yeah, so, but we are openingup three more, hopefully, god
willingly, by the end of thisyear.

(42:43):
We just launched Texas lastyear.
We hit one year again in Julyin.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Texas, so you travel, then you have to go, yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Which is fun because I get to work and play at the
same time.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
That's amazing.
This other question I wanted toask you was about leadership,
because I think that you aresuch a super woman, so I want to
ask you, what are yourleadership skills, because
you're managing a lot of people.
I mean, at the end of the day,you are the CEO, you are the
queen and you've got people thatare following you.

(43:16):
So what are some of the skillsthat you apply to your system,
because your employees arepretty happy.
They're very nice, happy girls.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah, and boys.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
And boys.
Yeah, I haven't met a boy.
Actually, the girls I've met,but not the boys.
So tell me, what are some ofyour skills as a leader.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Honestly, one thing I've learned because I've been
an employee I never likedsomebody coming in and bossing
me around.
So that was one thing.
When I said I would have my ownbusiness, I would not do.
I don't like leading my team,because that would be BS.
I feel like we're a team.
So to the clientele, there aretitles You're the CEO, you're

(43:55):
the office manager, you're theprocessing director, you're the
CEO, you're the office manager,you're the processing director,
you're the grant approver, youknow, and et cetera.
Inside MK no one's better thananother, including me.
We all put in work.
We work as one team, because inmy office it's an assembly line
.
One person you know does not dotheir work.
It falls apart.

(44:16):
So if I notice you'restruggling we all know how to do
each other's job Then I come inand I help you, and that's what
I tell my staff.
I go in here, I'm not your boss, we're teammates.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Does that help?

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yes, and also, I get them lunch every day, so that
also helps.
They get free lunch every day.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
You are so amazing.
That is like the nicest thingI've heard from a boss.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
I've had a boss that done that to me, and hence why I
will never forget him.
I don't know if he'll listenbut his name was Armin.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
He owns a pharmacy.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Call him out, I am.
He owns Market Pharmacy.
His name is Armin.
He was the best boss I've everhad.
He would buy us lunch every dayif we worked hard Like if we
would do this.
He would get us massage cards.
He was so respectful and sonice to his staff and I was like
you know what I admire him.
He motivated you.
And hence why I became the bossthat I am.

(45:10):
Because my staff tells me likestop Stop buying us lunch, like
we got this or I'll see thembring food from home.
So I don't spend money.
So we always eat as a family,like nobody will eat lunch until
we sit down and eat it together.
I can't explain it, but at MKwe're literally family.
Like we're one big familybecause we see each other more

(45:31):
than our own family, you do.
Eight hours a day, yeah, more,no, more, right, sometimes.
Hours a day, yeah, more, more.
But I mean during deadlines.
My poor kids, my teammates,were with me until midnight.
Imagine, some of these peoplehad newborns, they had husbands,
they had grandchildren at home,but they did not leave MK until
every last file, even if theyweren't doing nothing, they were

(45:52):
just standing around so wecould get everything like
situated.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
You know, I've read a book called the Habit the Power
of the Habit and one of themost important chapters of my
life because, you know, we'reboth consultants, right,
different consultants, but wework with people, we consult
individuals, and one of thethings that I learned from the
consulting experience is thatenvironment matters, yeah, right

(46:22):
, and so if the environment ishostile and the people, then the
people have to be hostile tosurvive in that environment.
Right, and I firmly believethat.
So that's why, when you walkinto businesses and you see that
there is a higher turnover rateand there's failures and
there's people fighting all thetime, you always want to look at
the environment and say what'sgoing on, what's the model,

(46:42):
what's the owner's philosophy?
And from what I'm hearing youtalk and say, is that your
philosophy is veryfamily-oriented business Just be
kind, very respectful and bevery family-oriented to even
your employees, and that's whatmakes you very successful and
have all these locations.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, it's my team.
People always tell me you do itand I was like, no, like I
could take one case on and maybefulfill it on from A to Z.
My team cares more, like whenthey get a discharge.
It was so funny I was onvacation and we got a $786,000
student loan discharge.
We have a group message MKoffice and it's hilarious, and

(47:24):
they sent it to me.
They're like Mar, we knowyou're in Italy, but check this
out, we're not calling theclient until you come back.
I was like call them andthey're like no, no, no, you
have to call.
We have a joke at MK when wedischarge your loans, you owe us
tequila.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
No way.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I love it, do you?

Speaker 2 (47:35):
guys, drink with the client, at least Take a shot
with the guy or the girl.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Okay, so you're going to laugh.
So when we get a discharge andit's towards the end of the day,
usually we'll have the teamshot.
And then we're Armenian, sowe'll do the shalako and the
tequila shot.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
We get more excited than the actual clients
sometimes with the discharge.
That is such a big deal forsomeone.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
It's such a big relief yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
To pay off $780,000 and then boom gone.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
He didn't even pay 20K towards it.
Stop yeah, that one was just,it was just God's doing Like it
was a blessing on blessing, onblessing.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
What loan was it that ended up being $780,000?
Dentist, stop yeah.
Do you know that dentists havethe highest suicidal rates.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
I mean, I could see why they have to get loans for
equipments that they can't evenutilize while they're in school.
By the way, that's why theirloans are so high.
So they get equipment loans,and these equipments are from
like the 80s okay, so they can'teven utilize it in the current
practice and it sucks it does.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Imagine no, so it's interesting to me then what is
what's up with this country thenin student loans?
If Canada has free educationalsystem for their kids and other
other European countries, whyare we doing this to ours?
What is your perspective?
Money feel other than money.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
It's money.
It's money, honestly, it's thefinance.
It's the biggest money-makingbusiness for the United States.
You know there's over $1.7trillion trillion dollars of
student loan debt right now.
Currently open.
Currently open.
Currently open Unpaid Unpaid.

(49:17):
We got lucky with thisadministration, the Biden and
Harris administration.
I've seen the most dischargesunder this current
administration.
Yeah, I'm not a Democrat, I'mnot a Republican, I don't care
who the president is.
I care for me individually.
And your client of course, but Ialways say it.

(49:37):
I'm like MK loves for anotherDemocrat because he'll discharge
all of the current clients Ihave.
Mary is a Republican, so it'slike, yeah, I get you, I can't.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
So I'm stuck.
I completely understand thatworld.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
But again, as much as I hate the current
administration, they are amazingfor my students.
I've seen the most dischargeand he's been proposing newer
stuff, newer grants, newerprograms that are going to go
through the higher education,which means I am going to be

(50:12):
swamped until election year isover.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Thankfully.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, we're almost fully booked.
I have maybe I want to say acouple of days here and there
throughout the whole yearavailable.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
But I also have 15 other counselors.
This is me specifically.
Yeah, it's crazy, but if youwant student loans discharged,
take advantage of the Biden andHarris administration, because
you're not going to haveleniency.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
But that's not going to last very long either, is it?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
I mean it's election year, Because you're not going
to have leniency, but that's notgoing to last very long either,
is it?
I mean it's election year.
So election year, like lastelection year again, there was
more.
Every election year, presidentsget sloppy and they get
desperate.
They want votes.
So they open up a lot of easyprograms, if you understand them
.
So to me, I love election year.
It's my busiest year.
But you have to act fast andyou got to be smart about it and

(51:03):
you got to get into theseprograms and you got to secure
it, you got to grandfather it.
There's a lot of othercomponents that go with it.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Mary, I'm curious to know when you experience a
client that wants to go to acertain school and you know that
there's some icky things I tellthem Are you honest with?

Speaker 1 (51:18):
them.
Oh things I tell them.
Are you honest with them?
Oh yeah, I go.
Just FYI, this school mightlose the accreditation.
So if you are pursuing highereducation, keep in mind if the
school loses the accreditation,you cannot transfer the units
from this current school onto anaccredited school.
So you can, let's use DeVry.
So if you went to DeVry, youdid your AA and you want to go

(51:40):
to USC, you cannot transfer yourunits.
You got to start all over again, which means you got to pull
out more loans.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
How do you know that that school is not going to
survive?

Speaker 1 (51:51):
Well, you know how you see the rate.
And then there's a lot of, like, default rates.
What rates are you looking for?
Default rates mainly.
So the Department of Educationwill ding a school if their
students are constantlydefaulting on their loans, if
they're not passing certainexams.
For example, that school, a lotof the students didn't pass
their boards.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Well, because they were probably.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Their bars, sorry, not boards.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they weren't, Because they
weren't being educated.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Because most yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
They weren't prepared , taught more Because they
weren't being educated Guided.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
When I went to college, I had a teacher where
she didn't care and sheliterally gave us the answer to
every test.
Yeah, it was cool because I was21 years old, I was passing all
my tests.
I would hang out with myfriends in class, but as a
21-year-old, you don't thinkthat long run, because you're
going to eventually take yourboards or your bar or your NCLEX
or whatever field you're goinginto, right, you're going to

(52:43):
have to take a test to get yourlicensing Wherever you want to,
but if you're not properlyeducated, how are you going to
do it?

Speaker 2 (52:51):
So then this leads me to this question.
You know how they say theschool is not important, it's
not where you go, it's who youknow.
Essentially, do you feel likeschool matters?
No, the name of the schoolmatters.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Not for me.
No, it's literally about whoyou know.
It really is Like I alwaysthought school matters Like, oh
my gosh, she went to Berkeley,she went to Harvard, doesn't
matter now why?
Because it doesn't matter.
People will not get you intothe door based off on what's on
your resume.
I've noticed that in the job.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
They don't look for that anymore.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
No, they don't.
They look at who referred you.
How many recommendations do youhave?
Do you have what it takes tobring more profit to my company?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Have you ever talked a student out of a prestige
school?
Yes, you have.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
I have.
And I was like I don't thinkit's a right idea and I've sent
somebody actually.
I had a kid that wanted to goin for engineering architect to
USC and I'm a I love phenomenal.
I love USC.
Okay, it's one of my favoriteschools.
Yeah, as I love children's.
But I was like, don't, I'm notgonna have you spend 70k on your
prereq, like, oh, you're goingto community school.

(53:58):
You came here for me to guideyou the right way.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
You listen to me, sir , you're listening to me.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Well, his mom and I were like the same age so I was
like pretend I'm your mom, LikeI will not send you to USC.
I'm like go to Woodbury forarchitect.
That's half the price for thefull, like tuition.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Woodbury is pretty expensive.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
No, Not Not compared to USC.
Compared to USC and Cal Polyyeah, $70,000 per year at USC,
where you're going to get awayat $40,000 per year at Woodbury.
That's $30,000.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
What are you noticing ?
I mean, are you involved in theacceptance rates as well?
No, okay, I was going to talkabout that, like what's going on
with it, Because it's sodifficult.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
But I'm noticing a lot.
So when I first started doingstudent loan forgiveness, most
of my clients were pharmacytechnicians.
They were LVNs, they didn'thave the drive.
Now I'm seeing my youngergeneration like 18, 19 year olds
and I'm so proud of them.
They're going in forneurosurgeon, they're going in

(54:57):
for mental health facilitieslike doctors.
They're going for dentistry,they're going into occupational
therapy, like they're moredriven than our generation, the
newer generation.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
You would think it would be the opposite.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
But no, they're so driven.
I'm like what did your mom do?
Because I have kids too, I wantto know how they guided them.
Like, I have a family that twoof the kids are dentists and
three of the kids arepharmacists.
That's phenomenal.
Lucky mom and dad, right, andthe loans are almost done too.
So, even lucky mom and dad.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
So we talked a little bit about this.
We kind of were writing to eachother and I'm reading what we
were writing.
You said something interesting.
You're like, let's talk about,in the long run, what's
happening in these kids that arepulling out more loans than
they need and they're eventuallydefaulting.
So yes, kids do pull out moreloans because it just sounds so

(55:58):
good to have extra money.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Well, yeah, I was going to get that extra Chanel
bag.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Yeah, exactly, you know.
And kids are like spending onthis and that, like I'll travel,
I'm in school, like do yourecommend that, since you're
saying you got me, it's going tobe, you know?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yes and no?
Tell me about that.
So if I know, for example, youare going to go through the PSLF
route, max out your studentloans, Because you know in 10
years your loans are going toget discharged.
At least the first two years,with the right income driven,

(56:29):
you're not going to makepayments.
So realistically, you're onlygoing to pay eight years out of
a 10 year term.
Yeah, max out your loans.
But if you're going to gothrough aesthetics and you're
going to max out your loans,you're going to go into a
20-year term.
So keep in mind, if you'repulling out $80,000 in loans in

(56:51):
a 20-year mark, your incomeshouldn't exceed more than
$90,000.
So if you're going intoaesthetics, you're obviously
going to make more than ninetythousand a year.
So, I do not recommend youpulling out more loans because
then your income is going tosurpass your debt amounts and
you're going to end up notqualifying for forgiveness.

(57:12):
That's smart, yeah.
So you got every case isdifferent and you just study
that with them and I tell themand I'm like if this is
something you could guarantee,like hey, my grandma, I'm their
IHSS provider, I've been itforever.
They have 120 hours, forexample.
Go wild on your loans, get thatextra money, why not?

(57:34):
Why not?
But if you know your income isalways going to surpass your
loan amount and you have nopublic service, you have no
grants available, you know thefield you're getting into is
very attorneys is very limitedin the forgiveness.
No, don't max out your loans.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
I love you.
You're just so honest.
Well, yeah, and it's so cool Ifyou can legally max it out and
utilize it.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (57:59):
I just appreciate that genuine honest.
Are you hated by the government?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Probably they probably hate me I'm going to
get a knock on the door like whyare you guiding these students
to pull out more loans?

Speaker 2 (58:10):
What are you doing to us it's like legal, so who
cares?

Speaker 1 (58:14):
I always tell my clients legally, keyword
Everything legally, legally, ifthere is a way around it, oh
yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I'll find it Hundred percent and I think that you're
doing a wonderful job and Iappreciate you.
I mean, you've helped me, sothank you.
Thank you, mary.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
This was fun, yeah, and I thinkwe got.
I mean, is there anything elsethat we left out?

Speaker 1 (58:37):
You feel like honestly, if you guys have loans
, get IHSS.
I know a lot of my clientele isour main community.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Yeah, that's something special for you.
I know we talked about that,it's important.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
IHSS is amazing.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Especially if you have grandmas.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Yeah just get it.
You get health insurance and, Ihope, you get your student
loans.
It's a win-win.
Or, if you guys have questions,call me yeah, get in contact
with me.
But look into grants, look intoyour interest rate, be smart
about it.
Create a game plan.
That's my biggest advice Icould give to my students don't
utilize me, don't go to a thirdparty.

(59:10):
Be smart about how you manageyour money.
They should teach this in likehigh school, like finances,
instead of like all these otherstupid subjects that they're now
teaching.
Exactly they should teach kidshow to handle finance.
I didn't know how to write acheck until I got married.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
I think that's one of the most important things.
It's these life skills, like,for instance, like graduating
high school.
I think a class should be juston how to handle student loans,
how to handle college, like theins and outs of these students,
like that's so important becausenot a lot of people do have
resources, like I'm being honest, like not a lot of people have

(59:47):
a Mary in their town and theydon't have these resources to
kind of utilize.
So it's important for theschools to educate these kids on
these matters.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
I always tell my clients like I go to a lot of
schools and I do orientationthere Especially.
Yeah, lately a lot of Armenianprivate high schools have gotten
me in where.
I sit down and I tell them, likehey, you guys are about to
graduate high school, this iswhat we need to do, this is what
you guys need to do.
This is the school that youguys are going in.

(01:00:16):
These are the set of questionsyou want to ask your financial
advisor, and then we guide them,and I've noticed a lot of these
Armenian schools, though Ican't really go into public
unless they invite me Not likeAmerican.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
I haven't had any Americans.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Like I've had universities, Like I've spoken
in Pepperdine, I've talked atUSC, UCLA.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I've done Glendale.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
PD City of Glendale was amazing.
They got me in a few times.
Artie, actually, when he wasthe mayor, got me in a few times
.
He was very passionate about it.
But I'm here, I'm to anyone'sdisposal If they need me to come
to their school and speak tothem, or if they have individual
cases, we're here.
I mean, we're here to help.

(01:00:56):
Even though there's only one ofme, I have a lot of I have a
lot of.
I have over 20 counselors thatbasically are trained and
they're as smart as me, if notthey're smarter than me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
They're amazing.
I'm very happy that you arearound and you're able to
educate.
Even, even doesn't matter.
Go into these schools.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Even if it's one or two or three kids that retain
information.
Yeah, yeah, and don't letstudent loans hold you back.
Like, if you want to be adoctor, go be a doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Don't let your student loans, we'll figure it
out yeah, exactly, I had a in myphd program, dr uh craig
childress.
I'll never forget him.
He said it if you want to be adoctor, be a doctor.
If you you want to be any kindof clinician, go.
Just don't waste.
Don't get student loans onstupid subjects, correct, don't.

(01:01:45):
It's a waste, like you know.
Be smart about your educationand don't be afraid of the loans
piling up.
There's always a way, always.
And what your advice is just besmart, research and there's
always a way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
You have to be smart.
We live in America.
There's always a way forsomething.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Yeah, and we're so lucky that we can utilize these
services.
I get heartbroken when I seekids not getting educated.
I'm like, no, there's there's,we came here for this.
Yes, I have to utilize it.
Well, thank you so much, mary.
I appreciate it.
It was a really good combo.
Thank you for having me.

(01:02:22):
Oh, my God, you don't even haveto thank me.
Thank you.